For whatever reason I rewatched that post Game 7 press conference Doc gave and still can’t believe he answered a layup of a question so badly….but even worse is how Morey has completely and totally fucked this Ben Simmons trade. You’d think he’d have sold as high as possible, and somehow has lost any and all leverage in the process. Good for Ben for realizing that he doesn’t owe it to the Sixers to increase his value (not that Harden needed to, but he did go out and play) but whew what a damn mess.

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17x NBA Champions

It's one thing to trade for young assets when they're just numbers, but once teams have drafted players who think are going to shape their future, it becomes a lot more difficult.

Furthermore, Morey approaching teams and asking for the moon before the draft and after the org was throwing under the bus wasn't a good look either. Neither was refusing to come down at any point.

Now the best option is to wait until the trade deadline.

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Like they're trying to call his bluff, but it doesn't seem to be a bluff. I don't think he's going to play.

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17x NBA Champions

Making the demand and digging in after the draft and after summer league doesn't seem like the best idea. Pretty everyone involved in this hasn't been helping their cause.

If I was a conspiracy guy, I'd say Klutch was doing this make it so the Lakers could get Simmons on the cheap, but I don't see how ANY trade with the Lakers would work.

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(For a lot of different reasons)

But I don't think Simmons' value will ever be so low that Talen Horton Tucker is the centerpiece.

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17x NBA Champions

Ben got a max contract...flaws and all
Obviously, nobody is offering that value in return
and the response has been a trade demand and threat to sit out
...that math just doesn't add up IMO...
The sources for these stories feel like they're coming from Klutch/Paul, not Ben himself
Morey would get fried if he traded Ben for FIBA Patty and tacos... I'm not sure how this is on him?

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Ben is not and has never been a Harden, KD, Bron, etc type talent so why are they expecting the moon for a guy they threw under the bus? Either he's worth a huge haul or he's not, but if he IS? Then he shouldn't be questioned as whether or not he can be the point guard on a championship team.

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17x NBA Champions

We haven't been out of the 2nd round with Ben at PG
Saying he's not a championship PG is just a fact.
Bye

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17x NBA Champions

Again, factual

He could try and prove us wrong... he's not choosing to do that=Morey's fault (c) you

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"Factual" or not, it was a very dumb response.

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17x NBA Champions

Ben played like ass in the playoffs, so he wants out? For what? He hoping to go to Sacramento and put up meaningless numbers or something?

Same issues he’s having in Philly he’s going to have on any other real team until he starts shooting the ball.

I get why he wants out, and I get that while he played like total shit - that was one playoff series, and that team was flawed. Should they have lost to the Hawks? No. But Ben became THE scapegoat. He's flawed as a player, but I understand why he wants out. He was probably unfairly deemed the single reason they lost - and then for Doc to question if he can be the PG on a championship team (mind you - the question wasn't "Can Ben be the guy on a contender"), I get it.

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17x NBA Champions

The team gave him a max contract
=/= The team bailed on him
Stop.

You're a LAL's fan right?
One of the common themes from BB's time as HC was a lack of accountability
Jimmy said it
JRich said
even Tobias said it

Ben is being held accountable...and is deciding to take his ball and go home... literally

Just stop.

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So they gave him a max contract MUST mean they didn't bail on him and make him the lone scapegoat for them losing to a lesser team. Sure. We'll go with that weird line of logic.

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17x NBA Champions

No one in this scenario is coming off well. Given how savvy Morey, Doc, and even Embiid are with respect to their jobs and the media, it's a headscratcher why no one can get out of their own way.

I don't think Doc said the right thing. He made mistakes himself in that series. But I think at the moment he passive-aggressively went at Ben, he saw that all the coaching up and all the times he probably went out of his way to praise Ben had no real impact.

Yes, Ben was infamously bad this postseason but his unwillingness to show any commitment to expanding his offensive game has been a constant for years. His reputation as a talented player with a highly fragile ego is why Doc was so glowing in his recaps of Ben, even when Ben didn't quite deserve Doc's praise.

The management and coaching staff is all-new, but the discontent of the organization in Ben's lack of growth isn't. That could be why we look at the Sixers' desire to trade Ben seems new. In reality, the tide has been flowing in that direction for some time.

<--- Me when my head hits the pillow

is that I think a simmons for CJ trade is something that should be workable on both sides

www.engadgethd.com - the other stuff i'm looking at

CJ is a near-all star, and they could theoretically be swapped straight up (I imagine Philly would need a pick or two).

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17x NBA Champions

and on both sides it's so good. everything Simmons is bad at is the stuff portland doesn't need at all because Dame is that guy

and in philly CJ isn't getting boxed in by playing with someone who does most of the same stuff he does, but better

www.engadgethd.com - the other stuff i'm looking at

If the answer is no, then the right move is to wait and see if Dame is available at the trade deadline

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Which is to say a fringe all star guy who fits with the team.

If Joel is healthy - yes, he makes them a contender.

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17x NBA Champions

I wonder what my lineup looks like with CJ instead of Ben. Seth Curry goes to the bench, and you start CJ, Danny Green, Tobias, Embiid, and... what, Shake Milton? Because to me, I don't think that's better than a, what, 4th seed in the East? Maybe 5th? In which case... is that a true contender? Especially considering what the top seeds in the West look like?

Plus, and more importantly, you're now in a spot where Curry, McCollum, and Maxey all more or less do the same thing at the same size to varying levels of efficacy... which just isn't great use of a roster. Not to mention, if you're even *entertaining* playing two of these players at once, then you're going to have a serious problem defending the perimeter. The efficacy of the defense is already going to dip considerably once you lose a Top 5 defender in the NBA like Ben.

Now, if they can make a deal where it's, say, Simmons and Maxey (who Paul seems to want out anyway also, so probably sucks long term for Philly, but fair enough) for CJ, Larry Nance, and 2-3 future firsts? Now you're looking at CJ, Green, Harris, Nance, Embiid with Curry and Milton first off the bench? While I'm still not necessarily convinced that's a true title contender, you at least know you're going to still have a top 3-4 defense in the NBA, and you'll have improved shooting on the floor, which means the offense has a decent shot to nudge into the top 10. I'd like that team's odds to win 50+ games.

But I'd have concerns about Ben for CJ straight up, due largely to fit.

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idk what you're looking for that will fix that team

www.engadgethd.com - the other stuff i'm looking at

If we're talking a Philly-Portland trade.

1. Trade Ben for Dame, straight up. Or Ben and a pick or two for Dame. But essentially asset for asset, right today.
2. Trade Ben and an asset or two for CJ, Nance, and maybe another asset.
3. Trade Ben for CJ, straight up. Or for CJ and a pick. But again, we're talking asset for asset right today.

I think the top two trades put them in contention for Top 3 in the East, and certainly in a nice spot if BK or MIL suffers an injury.

I think the bottom trade makes them around 5th in the East, which still keeps true contention pretty comfortably out of reach.

I just don't think adding *just* CJ when you have Seth and Maxey does a lot in terms of maximizing your roster. Because then 3 of your best 5 players are all, in terms of skills, weaknesses, and size, identical.

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but I don't think Dame is actually available, maybe I'll be wrong in the future but we'll have to wait,


I'm not the GM of the 76ers or even a fan of the tean, but selfishly I'd rather see simmons and dame together than dame and embiid together

www.engadgethd.com - the other stuff i'm looking at

Dame and Embiid >> CJ, pieces, and Embiid >>>>>>>>>>> CJ and Embiid

As for the Blazers, they don't have many choices. If they don't start the year looking like a playoff team (and I suspect they won't), then they have two choices: 1) make a big splashy move to make the team better and keep Dame happy, or 2) trade Dame for the best asset package you can muster.

And, to be clear, if they can get Simmons for CJ, even for CJ and a piece, I do think it immediately makes the Blazers better. Especially since I don't think that'd be the last move they make. They just need defensive versatility and ball movement so desperately, and Simmons, whatever you think of him, is elite at both.

One can ask the question "but what if Ben isn't motivated and pouts and refuses to play well" or whatever. And I think that's a fair enough question... but I assume that playing with an elite guard like Dame would appeal to him. The biggest problem Ben has is that the only elite player on his current team takes up the space inside that Ben needs in order to be any kind of offensive threat today. Dame spaces the floor. Ben and Dame could be a really lethal pairing in theory. (But again, anyone who says "but we don't know if Ben will try!"-- I wouldn't counter that point. It's a totally fair point. But I think, for a Portland team that really needs to shake things up, it's worth the gamble imo.)

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WTF is Mr. Big Shot gonna do with Mr. No Shot.

He can playmake, in the same way that Draymond does. But he probably shouldn't be a guy used outside the perimeter making plays. It's just not the way to extract the most value out of his skill set, because defenders will straight sag off him. If you put him at the elbow or in some pick-and-roll action, and use him instead as an elite-passing forward alongside an elite perimeter combo guard (much like Draymond has!), then the pairing makes total sense, and the value of both players will be maximized.

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That's valuable on any team.

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Sixers shouldn't even look at a Colin, Kevin, extras trade proposal.

Ben went about this the wrong way. Show up, SHOOT THE BALL, be aggressive, and silently request a trade. They just want him to be aggressive and shoot, that's it. Instead he wants out with his max contract.

No empathy for white misery (c) BDot

"root for everybody black haters say that's crazy, wow..."

I don't think Morey was going to be able to trade Simmons high. The whole league knew Simmons wanted out before Simmons went public with it. Morey was never going to get the sort of deal Simmons is worth before the season started.

Simmons is a 3x All-Star, 2x First-Team All-Defense, 1x All-NBA... before he turned 25. So yes, he's not the sort of transcendent AD/Harden/whatever guy today... but contextualize that:

- there are 32 active players in the NBA who've played in 3 or more NBA All-Star Games
- only 7 of those players are under 30 years old
- of those 7, only 3 also have multiple All-Defense honors

AND on top of that, he's signed for four more seasons! Like, Anthony Davis had one guaranteed year left. Harden had two guaranteed years left. Simmons has FOUR.

If you value youth (the league does), versatility (the league does), and the ability to play on both ends (the league... often does)? Then Simmons, even considering last year's playoff disaster, is one of the more valuable contracts in the league. Especially on a team looking to win now.

So even doing something like punting him off for future draft equity-- or even draft equity in this draft beforehand, unless it was a Top 3 pick-- just isn't something that helps a win-now team like the Sixers. Morey likely assesses Simmons ages 26 through 29 as a guy likely to make another 3-4 ASGs and another 4 All-Defense teams from 2022 to 2025. When you're a win-now team, you just aren't going to find that in the draft.

I think that's why the reported trade offer to the Warriors was so egregiously stacked-- because Morey (correctly) said, "well fuck it, if there's no win-now piece, then at least stack my team with ridiculous depth of young talent that'll really start to hit their stride before it's time to negotiate with Embiid again." The Warriors did the right thing by turning it down right away, because they're not pressed for a guy like Simmons with the current blend of old and young talent they have-- but I also think Morey's doing the right thing by asking for the moon if there's no win-now piece in the deal.

My last point: everyone *thinks* Morey is pressed to trade him before the season starts, so they're all going to lowball him. Yet because Simmons is under a 4-year deal, and Morey is incentivized to get something resembling an equitable return on value for Simmons (especially to keep Embiid happy), I don't really think Morey is as pressed to make a move as people may think. He can fine Simmons a mil and a half for skipping camp. He can fine him more for skipping games. Simmons can't really even do the Harden thing of coming in and tanking games with shitty play, because the Sixers can just... not play him. They won't be nearly as good as they'd be with a motivated Simmons, but they'd still be playoff good (injuries notwithstanding) and can dangle Simmons out there to teams before the deadline.

So they can afford to just cool their heels and wait for a team mid-season to get desperate. Other GMs and coaches will hit the hot seat before Morey and Rivers do. There's no doubt Philly is eyeballing the situations around Lillard and Beal, specifically, just biding their time, seeing if the teams aren't that good and if the stars get restless.

So I don't think Morey had any chance to sell high. And I don't really think he's lost all his leverage either. All he's got to do is show his willingness to not play Simmons.

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That said, and not that star trade demands are at all uncommon or foreign, this one kinda feels different in so much as Ben seems wired different than most AND there's this element of seemingly pinning a series loss on him. You don't see THAT a ton, really. So I guess him skipping camp and games really only goes to lessen his value even more...which is advantageous only to Ben.

Anyway, weird scenario. And you could be right. But it's very weird to see the Philly fans react to all this.

With all THAT said...I remember asking a Philly fan friend about that hypothetical Harden/Simmons trade from last season and he couldn't have said yes faster, which still makes me laugh because...obviously.

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17x NBA Champions

>So I guess him skipping camp and games
>really only goes to lessen his value even more...which is
>advantageous only to Ben.

... does this lessen his value *that* much?

I mean, yes, there's the Malcontent label... but he's already got that anyway. I don't really know if the Malcontent label gets much worse if he spends time out. It'd potentially only get worse if he *did* choose to play and did the Harden "I'm playing like an asshole to force your hand" thing. And I don't really see that happening. Especially since the Sixers don't really need to play him.

The only scenario I see where Simmons's value actually dips is if the Sixers are as good or better without him. Two things about that: 1) I don't think that's very likely. 2) If that does happen, it's frankly even *more* incentive for Morey to not rush a deal. If they can still be Top 3 in the East good without Simmons, then why trade him for pennies on the dollar?

It's just such a singularly strange scenario, one where I can't recall having seen anything quite like it before. There's just such a clear incentive for both parties to dig in their heels and not give an inch. Which is why I truly believe the Sixers' best course is to wait and see what other teams need. Simmons may not give an inch, and Morey may not give an inch, but other teams will definitely give several inches before the deadline.

(Watch, I've written all this and he'll be traded for a bag of dildos in the next 7 days, lol.)

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-The Knicks’ coaching search still includes a lone frontrunner, Kurt Rambis, whose qualifications for the position include a strong relationship with Jackson and a willingness to take the job.

been the GM
Morey was brought in to clean up his mess
and immediately put in Herculean effort getting rid of the absurd Tito experiment and contract
...I'd put money on Morey figuring this out...

Real question, why isn't this Brand's L?

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17x NBA Champions

https://memegenerator.net/img/instances/71480086/wellisnt-that-convenient.jpg

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Add him onto the pile.

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17x NBA Champions