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Let's be clear: there has been a mountain of good ass, serious ass, adult ass, boss ass wrestling in the last 20 years. And not just in WWE either. When WCW died, it was time to look around and see what Japan was up to. Their indies were jumping, All Japan had just finished up mostly a decade of killer main events with a core group of folks (who then went to NOAH and kept the party rolling for a while), and New Japan had a smaller crew doing the same. And when New Japan stopped trying to be worked MMA and went back to rasslin again, their shit got mighty fun too. Then, as usual, they got pillaged by WWE (Balor, Nakamura, AJ Styles) and then AEW really took a bite out of them.
And a lot of the best ROH stuff holds up to scrutiny too. Less WWF character stuff. More NWA badass physical rasslin stuff. Yes, the guys were generally smaller, but it is easy to forget that Flair and Steamboat were considered small when they were out there 'tearing houses down' in 89 and before that. But Punk and Samoa Joe, Tyler Black/Seth Rollins, Daniel Bryan/American Dragon, and some others were doing good work for real.
WWE looked around at all of the same stuff plus the reborn indie scene in the 2000s and then went to town will the pillaging/partnering/etcetera. And now? Shiiiiid, they wouldn't have a roster if it wasn't for those other companies that some people refuse to look at. And real talk, some of the best stuff about WWE in the last 20 years has roots in All Japan and the indies in general.
And it is easy to hate on TNA because of how much they basically ended up as WCW Dies because they're idiots: part two (complete with Sting), but they had a lot of good moments in between fuck ups too. Kurt Angle was top end most of his time there. AJ Styles probably doesn't exist without it. A lot of folks got to work and get better there. And even right now, they're at least mildly watchable. There's some folks with size who don't do a lot of shenanigans but can work. I peek over there at them from time to time and I don't hate what I'm seeing. The women can generally go too. And they're allowed to do so, so that's cool too. And again, WWE is noticing cuz they have hella TNA folks on the scene right now.
>
>>I can get with lots of this. The format hasn't dramatically
>>changed. And the whole 'the company is the only real star'
>is
>>hard to disagree with as an obvious shift..especially with
>>WWE. But hell, that's pretty much what all American
>>entertainment and sports are trying to pull off. The ugly
>side
>>effect is that things seem to 'matter less' compared to
>before
>>because the company is gonna be being there no matter who
>wins
>>the rasslin matches. The good news for the companies is that
>>the show keeps going even if someone gets hurt, dies, and/or
>>acts a fool backstage and gets canned. To me, that's how WWE
>>can drop damn near a whole roster worth of folks, damn near
>a
>>3rd of the roster is stuck in catering at any given time,
>BUT
>>the show keeps on rolling, and the more entranced 'WWE is
>the
>>only show worth watching' folks thinks that means the folks
>>who got let go and/or can't get out of catering aren't good.
>>AKA WWE's plan is working on the fans. I'm embarrassed that
>>folks could still get worked by a wrestling company like
>>this.
>
>this is why not only do they not care if anyone ACTUALLY gets
>over, its in their best interest that NO one gets really and
>truly over. AEW does a similar thing, but its a lot less
>malicious. they have a cult of personality in their fanbase
>to the point that it doesnt really matter what happens, all
>that matters is that their indie darlings are the ones doing
>it.
>
>>For me, the good news is this: WWE's rasslers are VERY GOOD
>at
>>delivering a good show at the stadium. So, if you're there,
>>its gonna work on you. By comparison, it is hard to
>understate
>>how horrible WCW got to be delivering decent and coherent
>main
>>events. WWE was doing elaborate shenanigan finishers a lot
>too
>>but at least there were no cattle prods. And there were far
>>less overbearingly lazy workers in WWE's main event scene.
>
>to be honest, if WWE tv were condensed down to JUST the
>matches...it would be good. they are believable combatants
>with a ton of professional training, even if the style is a
>bit homogeneous. and WWE never had Kevin Nash throwing stones
>with "the book" and then hiding his hands afterwards, so the
>elaborate shenanigans were never done in service of anything
>other than the almighty draw.
>
>>People got their chains jerked like crazy with stories that
>>had folks excited matched with bad matches and shit
>finishes.
>>And, to me, that horrible period of rasslin broke something
>>inside of a lot of fans that has never been repaired. As for
>>me, I dove into Japan stuff, reached back to make sure I had
>a
>>decent handle on the 80s classic stuff, and peeked in on WWE
>>to make sure I didn't miss whatever Eddie, Booker T, and
>>Benoit were doing.
>
>i bailed on WCW before it really got truly awful, which sucked
>bc i grew up in a 605 Saturday night house and my first show
>was front row at JCP in 1988. its my understanding that WWE
>in 2003, 2005, 2006, and 2010 had a ton of legitimately good
>stuff but I had no wrestling friends around at that time so i
>missed just about all of it. by the time NJPW was an option
>for me i missed promos too much to really get into it. so ive
>basically just been twisting in the wind for 20 years waiting
>for what i hoped AEW would be. thats the real reason i have
>such a negative reaction to the worst of AEW.
>
>>The post-internet 'match quality/workrate obsession' thing
>was
>>fine as long as the wrestlers themselves weren't raising
>their
>>glasses to wink at folks about it over and over during the
>>show.
>
>yeah thats an immediate turnoff for me when the wrestlers do
>that.
>
>>IE: Ric Flair was a king shit badass in-ring wrestler. But
>he
>>didn't show up and talk about having 5-star matches. He
>showed
>>up talking about being rich, having all of the broads,
>having
>>the illest crew, and being THE MAN. And if you were gonna
>beat
>>him in a match, you were gonna have to fucking bring it (and
>>get around Flair not being above cheating). It made sense.
>It
>>kept the story going. And, like you said, it was presented
>>seriously even if there was dudes saying outrageous stuff,
>>dressing like assholes, doing over the top fake selling
>(Flair
>>flop) and all of that.
>
>the closest he ever came was talking about being a "60 minute
>man", but that could easily be interpreted as the character's
>attribute, not Richard Fliehr's. he also had that magical
>once in a generation ability to make you hate him amd want to
>be hom at the same time.
>
>>Now, Kenny Omega is a badass wrestler who can do a bunch of
>>shit physically that I enjoy. The thing I don't love is that
>>he talks about his match quality as a part of his gimmick.
>Its
>>Dolph Ziggler shit in the worst way. I think someone
>somewhere
>>is coaching him up about it though cuz he seems to be
>getting
>>better. I'm holding out hope. I'm also remember that it took
>>hella years for Hulk, Hall/Nash, Bret, and even Flair to
>>figure out their best shit. I think if we give some of these
>>wrestling nerd workers we have now some time, some of them
>>will figure it out too.
>
>like i said above i think its actually clicking for Omega. i
>decided very early that i wasnt going to hold any pre-AEW
>nonsense against any of these people, but i also wasnt going
>to just accept the accolades either. they had to prove it to
>me. some guys are sinking (YBs) some are swimming (all the
>NWA imports + Darby/LAX/Pagex2, and some others), and some are
>finally starting to kick their legs (Omega)
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