Everybody likes to say AD is a "top 5" player but is that true?

I got:

Bron
Giannis
KD
Kawhi
Steph/Harden

Is AD better than any of those guys?

Is he better than Embiid?

Luka?

Dame?

________________________________________
"Take the surprise out your voice Shaq."-The REAL CP3
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v2H5K-BUMS0

So you are going to start shitting on AD like you did Rondo?

I don’t know of any other fan base that shits on its own players , and then have
to reverse judgment later on down the line.

You guys wouldn’t even be here if it was not for AD killing in the post
in every series. Y’all didnt do that last year WHEN IT WAS JUST LEBRON.

Man I can’t wait to man comes back home.

And if he wins you a championship, I guess this is going to be another situation where you will have to eat your own words.

Stop it.

..He didn't do any of the things you claimed.

ThaTruth asked a valid question, since its based on public opinion (not actual accomplishments or skill).

He's allowed to have an opinion. He never claimed that AD was trash or not considered Top 5/10. He simply questioned whether AD was truly top 5.

Stop with the histrionics.


*skatin' the rings of saturn*


..and miles to go before i sleep...

basically degrading my man.
He knows what he is doing, so don’t play dumb.

It’s just another post by him taking a shot at AD. It’s crazy.

You guys are in the middle of a championship run that you haven’t had in a decade.

And he questions his service? And then degrades him by calling him just a 6’11 player who gets 5 boards.

Like I said, I can’t wait until he comes back home where he will be truly appreciated. lakers nation don’t deserve him.

It’s a shit post, especially while he is still playing trying to get the lakers a ring

>So you are going to start shitting on AD like you did Rondo?

if you actually go back and check that early post I was one of the only Laker fans not shitting on Rondo.

I give AD his props when he deserves it I’ve also been one of his biggest critics way before he was a Laker see the “seasoned and battered” post

________________________________________
"Take the surprise out your voice Shaq."-The REAL CP3
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v2H5K-BUMS0

It’s just seems you are constantly taking shots at him by questioning his rank.

It’s one thing to question his game, but you go way beyond that.
You even said he wasn’t a big man...that he is just a 6’11 wing player to you.
Come on, dude.

“It’s obvious why his teams never had success with him as the lead dog. He a Pippen. An ultra-Pippen on steroids but he’s still a Pippen.”



There is no big man better than AD in the league....

>It’s just seems you are constantly taking shots at him by
>questioning his rank.
>
>It’s one thing to question his game, but you go way beyond
>that.
>You even said he wasn’t a big man...that he is just a 6’11
>wing player to you.
>Come on, dude.
>
>There is no big man better than AD in the league....

He is but it’s not like he has a lot of competition, either way he better have more than 5 rebounds tonight

________________________________________
"Take the surprise out your voice Shaq."-The REAL CP3
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v2H5K-BUMS0

..if I had to debate a tie for 6th man its btwn Steph & Dame.

*You'll notice a trend: the only people capable of guarding my top 5 consistently are the other members of my top 5 lol.

I don't care how many points you score, you're not cracking my top 5 if you're not consistent @ both ends of the court.


*skatin' the rings of saturn*


..and miles to go before i sleep...

________________________________________
"Take the surprise out your voice Shaq."-The REAL CP3
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v2H5K-BUMS0

..Steph ain't healthy right now, so yes, he's tied with Dame (who quite frankly, has earned that 6th man position). Dame stepped up this season and throughout the playoffs.

I've already given my criterium for top 5:

You have to compete at an elite level on both ends. No excuses.





*skatin' the rings of saturn*


..and miles to go before i sleep...

I guess when he was destroying Nurkic, Whiteside, and Jokic, you were
in another dimension.

And you ask is he better than Embid? A dude who gets accused of taking too my 3s and outside shots instead of living in a paint. One of the softest bigs in the league

AD was second in defensive player of the year.

And as much as I like Giannis ...his offense is shit compared to AD’s offensive game, and again AD was second to him as defensive player of the year. So that would mean AD is the better all around player.

Only thing you’re doing with this post is taking senseless shots at a dude who is trying to win you championship.

I WILL STRIKE DOWN UPON THINE CLOAK WITH GREAT VENGEANCE AND FUUUUURIOUS ANGER THOSE WHO WOULD ATTEMPT TO STAN FOR JABRONIS WHO ARE VIRTUALLY FISHING, AND YOU WILL KNOW THAT MY NAME IS THE SPO WHEN I LAY MY HALF COURT TRAP UPON BUM ASS DANNY GREEN AND THEE!!!!


*****FINGER GUNS BLAZING*****

------------------
One Hundred.

He has done nothing but come up short as a lead dog with some of the illest PG to ever play the game. And gave up against the lakers.

________________________________________
"Take the surprise out your voice Shaq."-The REAL CP3
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v2H5K-BUMS0

AD had the better season. Clearly.

Top 5 this year, right?

so that would probably definitely put him in the top 5 THIS year but people have had him in the top 5 the last few years like it’s an automatic

________________________________________
"Take the surprise out your voice Shaq."-The REAL CP3
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v2H5K-BUMS0

I know that’s a slightly different discussion.

LeBron - age.
KD - achilles
Kawhi - load management
Giannis - no J. Can’t bull rush your way to the basket every time in the playoffs.
Harden - terrible without the ball in his hands.
Curry - age/injury

AD is an elite player in his prime who plays both ends and contributes across the board.

>I know that’s a slightly different discussion.

if you look at at like that where is Luka? Jokic?

________________________________________
"Take the surprise out your voice Shaq."-The REAL CP3
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v2H5K-BUMS0

Only players as good or better that play both ends at an elite level are LeBron, Kawhi, and Giannis IMO.

>Only players as good or better that play both ends at an
>elite level are LeBron, Kawhi, and Giannis IMO.

________________________________________
"Take the surprise out your voice Shaq."-The REAL CP3
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v2H5K-BUMS0

>Giannis - no J. Can’t bull rush your way to the basket
>every time in the playoffs.

I think if his team was better constructed, he probably could. They're just such an average-to-below-average perimeter team. Like, if you give him the shooters Dwight Howard had around him in Orlando, he would be borderline unstoppable. It's just too easy a decision now about how to guard him-- cheat off, swarm if he drives, leave shooters open if need be.

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Same with Luka, though Luka's on his way and is definitely top 3 with Giannis and AD in terms of untradeability going forward.

I think you could maybe even argue that we have questions about what KD will be post-injury and that AD should be above him "right today."

There are just very few players in the NBA with the versatility on both ends that AD brings. Even if I wish AD would like banging in the paint more, he just has absolutely absurd value in today's NBA.

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>Same with Luka, though Luka's on his way and is definitely
>top 3 with Giannis and AD in terms of untradeability going
>forward.
>
>I think you could maybe even argue that we have questions
>about what KD will be post-injury and that AD should be above
>him "right today."
>
>There are just very few players in the NBA with the
>versatility on both ends that AD brings. Even if I wish AD
>would like banging in the paint more, he just has absolutely
>absurd value in today's NBA.

________________________________________
"Take the surprise out your voice Shaq."-The REAL CP3
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v2H5K-BUMS0

“When you bug out, you usually have a reason for the action.
Sometimes you do it for mere satisfaction.”

I answered.

I don't think past MVP trophies mandate who is in today's Top 5 NBA players.

Bron, Kawhi, Giannis, and AD were all Top 14 in offensive win shares and Top 12 in defensive win shares. They're all Top 10 in offensive plus-minus and all Top 20 in defensive plus-minus (Giannis, AD, and Kawhi are all Top 7 in defensive plus-minus). They're all Top 8 in VORP, and they all played for three of the four best teams in the NBA this year.

Giannis and AD are two of the five best defenders in the NBA today, if not the two best defenders in the NBA today, period. Even if Kawhi's D may have slipped a *little*, he's one of the ten best defenders of the decade and would still easily be in my Top 10 defenders today. Bron obviously takes games off on defense, but when he's locked in, he's absolutely one of the best 1v1 defenders in the league.

I think Harden merits strong consideration because of his value for Houston's system, because he does so much on offense for a team that was still a Top 10 squad. If we're removing KD from consideration due to injury concerns (and Steph for the same reason), then Harden's the obvious number 5 today... but the gap between his defense and the defense of the others on this list is larger than whatever gap exists between his offense and the offense of any of the others on this list.

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need to be prepared to defend that opinion.

>I answered.
>
>I don't think past MVP trophies mandate who is in today's Top
>5 NBA players.

I agree.

>
>Bron, Kawhi, Giannis, and AD were all Top 14 in offensive win
>shares and Top 12 in defensive win shares. They're all Top 10
>in offensive plus-minus and all Top 20 in defensive plus-minus
>(Giannis, AD, and Kawhi are all Top 7 in defensive
>plus-minus). They're all Top 8 in VORP, and they all played
>for three of the four best teams in the NBA this year.

So you're saying "advanced stats" determine your top 5?
>
>Giannis and AD are two of the five best defenders in the NBA
>today, if not the two best defenders in the NBA today, period.
>Even if Kawhi's D may have slipped a *little*, he's one of the
>ten best defenders of the decade and would still easily be in
>my Top 10 defenders today. Bron obviously takes games off on
>defense, but when he's locked in, he's absolutely one of the
>best 1v1 defenders in the league.
>
>I think Harden merits strong consideration because of his
>value for Houston's system, because he does so much on offense
>for a team that was still a Top 10 squad. If we're removing KD
>from consideration due to injury concerns (and Steph for the
>same reason), then Harden's the obvious number 5 today... but
>the gap between his defense and the defense of the others on
>this list is larger than whatever gap exists between his
>offense and the offense of any of the others on this list.

I don't disagree, ruling out KD and Steph for this season definitely puts AD in the top 5

________________________________________
"Take the surprise out your voice Shaq."-The REAL CP3
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v2H5K-BUMS0

>>Bron, Kawhi, Giannis, and AD were all Top 14 in offensive
>win
>>shares and Top 12 in defensive win shares. They're all Top
>10
>>in offensive plus-minus and all Top 20 in defensive
>plus-minus
>>(Giannis, AD, and Kawhi are all Top 7 in defensive
>>plus-minus). They're all Top 8 in VORP, and they all played
>>for three of the four best teams in the NBA this year.
>
>So you're saying "advanced stats" determine your top 5?

No, but if I just said "my eye test says these guys are Top 5," then that's not a very good defense of my opinion, is it? Because my eye test could just suck. There's plenty of people whose eye test is shitty. But if I say "this is what I believe, *and* the advanced stats back up what I see," that's a much stronger argument.

>I don't disagree, ruling out KD and Steph for this season
>definitely puts AD in the top 5

I also just think it's hard to keep AD out regardless. I don't really know yet who I'd bump out if KD and Steph both come back at full health and full power, but it wouldn't be AD. He's one of the three best defenders in the league, and he's made All-NBA First Team three of the last four years. Over the last four seasons, he's averaged 27/11/3/1.5/2.5 with 50+ FG% and 80+ FT%. He's a model of consistent greatness on both ends of the floor in recent years.

I think one could argue he's not a Top 5 *offensive* player in the NBA, potentially-- but it's hard to argue he isn't a Top 10 offensive player, and it's impossible to argue he isn't a Top 15 offensive player. So when you combine that with being one of the three best defenders in the league? There just really aren't other players who can compare with his impact on both sides of the ball.

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basically milk carton status in the postseason was his supporting cast in NO that much worse than Giannis has to work with in Milwaukee?

AD is great but he's not a lead dog, he's a Pippen, and ultra-Pippen on steroids but he's still a Pippen

________________________________________
"Take the surprise out your voice Shaq."-The REAL CP3
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v2H5K-BUMS0

The Bucks currently have:

Middleton, who's made two straight ASGs
Bledsoe, who's made two straight All-Defense teams
Brook Lopez, who's made an ASG in the past and who made an All-Defense team this season

And they had Malcolm Brogdon who won Rookie of the Year (and whose shooting I thought they sorely missed this season).

Like, maybe none of those guys is likely to go off for 30 on a given night, but they're all terrific team players, terrific in their roles, terrific on defense.

Davis's best ever teammates on the Pelicans were probably DeMarcus Cousins and Julius Randle, both of whom are individually probably better than any of those Buck players on offense... but both of whom stayed for very short tenures, and both of whom... more or less play the exact same game Davis does. (Minus the defense, of course.)

The only good backcourt/wing player AD consistently played with was Jrue Holiday, who still only shot 34% from 3 in a Pelicans uniform and never won any All-League awards during his time with Davis. Outside of that, I mean... Eric Gordon back from injury? E'Twuan Moore? Elfrid Payton? It's a pretty dire list.

I think the question should be "who's better, the Bucks without Giannis or the Pelicans without AD?" The Bucks were about .500 this year without Giannis, a little below .500 over the past two seasons combined without Giannis. The Pelicans were 8-18 without AD that final season. I'm sure there are myriad variables at play there, but the overall point I think still stands that, minus the stars, the Bucks have better team players and a better overall roster than the Pelicans had.

My movies: http://russellhainline.com
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Bledsoe is highly overrated and one of the worst contracts in the league his backup George Hill might actually be better than him.

Brook Lopez was considered washed a few years ago until he came to the Lakers an re-invented himself.

People are more excited about the potential of the Pels with a bunch of young guys than they were with a “top 5” player.

Anybody that watches him now can see why his teams struggled with him as the main guy

________________________________________
"Take the surprise out your voice Shaq."-The REAL CP3
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v2H5K-BUMS0

I guess he just answered your question.

Hit the three and a closing block shot!

<---https://www.amazon.com/dp/B01DL9AVTQ

________________________________________
"Take the surprise out your voice Shaq."-The REAL CP3
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v2H5K-BUMS0

<--- Big Baller World Order

up with another top 5 player to be successful in the playoffs?

________________________________________
"Take the surprise out your voice Shaq."-The REAL CP3
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v2H5K-BUMS0

which with us he has for the first time in his career. AD + another top 5 talent (who yes is still better than AD) gets you a dominant championship run

meanwhile giannis got nothing but a couple embarrassing 2nd round exits w/ actual help that could make the playoffs w/o him. i had him in my mind as an alpha but knowing he follows the coach orders to a T and wont take on a defensive assignment on his own knocks him out of that class.

kawhi need an elite organization and a supporting cast that could damn near make the conference finals w/o him. would've lost in the first round if porzingis wasnt hurt. another non-alpha top 5-10 player

steph (i love him but i gotta fry him in this post) straight up quit this season since all his help was gone. he aint want no parts of this life and he def aint no alpha.

we are very fortunate to have IMO the #1 and #2 most impactful players in the league. as a laker fan you should dead any anti Lebron/AD agendas. they're ours and we ride for ours above all.

bron is an alpha. Dame, Jimmy, I'd like to think Luka. you can be elite and not have it though

<--- Big Baller World Order

>which with us he has for the first time in his career. AD +
>another top 5 talent (who yes is still better than AD) gets
>you a dominant championship run
>
>meanwhile giannis got nothing but a couple embarrassing 2nd
>round exits w/ actual help that could make the playoffs w/o
>him. i had him in my mind as an alpha but knowing he follows
>the coach orders to a T and wont take on a defensive
>assignment on his own knocks him out of that class.
>
>kawhi need an elite organization and a supporting cast that
>could damn near make the conference finals w/o him. would've
>lost in the first round if porzingis wasnt hurt. another
>non-alpha top 5-10 player
>
>steph (i love him but i gotta fry him in this post) straight
>up quit this season since all his help was gone. he aint want
>no parts of this life and he def aint no alpha.
>
>we are very fortunate to have IMO the #1 and #2 most impactful
>players in the league. as a laker fan you should dead any anti
>Lebron/AD agendas. they're ours and we ride for ours above
>all.
>
>bron is an alpha. Dame, Jimmy, I'd like to think Luka. you can
>be elite and not have it though

________________________________________
"Take the surprise out your voice Shaq."-The REAL CP3
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v2H5K-BUMS0

5-8 with Dame, Harden, Luka and Jimmy is harder for me to choose from but thats my order there right this moment.

on KD i'm assuming he comes back 3rd best.

Steph prob still ahead of Kawhi to me but it'll be very interesting to see if he is still the offensive supernova

Kawhi bout to tumble IMO. Leg busted and his first time with his own team was a colossal failure. Raptors just plugged him into what they had going and he put them over the top.

<--- Big Baller World Order

________________________________________
"Take the surprise out your voice Shaq."-The REAL CP3
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v2H5K-BUMS0

They're comparable defenders imo, and Davis is a notably better shooter.

I think Giannis absolutely had the better season this year, and Davis absolutely had the better playoffs. If you think AD's playoff performance hinges on Bron, I'd point out that, in his previous playoff appearances with the Pels, AD's stats *improved* during the playoffs from his regular season. He steps it up for the playoffs, it's pretty hard to deny. (Giannis's stats have dipped notably in the playoffs the last two seasons. You can blame the teammates, whose stats also dipped some, or you can blame the lack of a jumper-- it just is what it is.)

I think if you think Giannis's teammates aren't very good (which I know you don't) and you put high value on alpha dog status (which I know you do), then it makes sense if you think Giannis is definitely better. I think Giannis's teammates are really good together, and AD's usage rate isn't *that* much lower than it was on the Pelicans tbh... so I wouldn't dismiss anyone who said AD is better than Giannis.

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________________________________________
"Take the surprise out your voice Shaq."-The REAL CP3
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v2H5K-BUMS0

"I think Giannis absolutely had the better season this year."

Giannis was the right pick.

All I said above was that I don't think anyone who says AD is better than Giannis is being unreasonable. I didn't say anything about the MVP award.

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My movie reviews: https://letterboxd.com/RussellHFilm/
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>"I think Giannis absolutely had the better season this
>year."
>
>Giannis was the right pick.
>
>All I said above was that I don't think anyone who says AD is
>better than Giannis is being unreasonable. I didn't say
>anything about the MVP award.

________________________________________
"Take the surprise out your voice Shaq."-The REAL CP3
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v2H5K-BUMS0

That was a wasted year for AD, thrown off by all the agent vs front office shit.

Still doesn't change that one could definitely argue, right today, that AD is the better player. If you prioritize a player's ability to shoot the ball-- which definitely matters in the playoffs-- then I totally get why you'd think AD is the better player.

I'm not saying *I'd* say AD is the better player, necessarily. Giannis's last two seasons, as you noted, have been beastly. But I think AD is the more skilled player. And I think that matters for a lot of people when debating "who's better."

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Giannis has won all the awards, AD has nothing, yet somehow AD is better?

okayplayer.

________________________________________
"Take the surprise out your voice Shaq."-The REAL CP3
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v2H5K-BUMS0

I didn't say I thought AD was better than Giannis. I don't know what I'd say. Giannis is easily better in the open court, but AD is easily better in the half court. Giannis has had better regular seasons the last two years, but he's played worse than his regular seasons in the playoffs, whereas AD throughout his career has played *better* than his regular seasons in the playoffs.

So it's not cut and dry. Depending on what you prioritize, you could argue AD is better, and I wouldn't protest. That's all I'm saying.

Like, answer honestly-- your team's down 1, ten seconds left, and you're in the halfcourt. Do you want Giannis or AD with the ball? Because I think no one on this board is taking Giannis over AD in that scenario. And that matters *a lot* to some people. You clearly prioritize the regular season awards, and that makes total sense too.

I'd put them on the same tier, probably. Both in my top 5. I'm not going to change your mind or make you see things slightly differently, so I'm going to stop replying. But I think my point is pretty clear. I don't think it's cut and dry, and I don't blame anyone for arguing for either player in this debate. They're both fucking great.

Also, in AD's last two healthy seasons, he made first team All-NBA and All-Defense both times. It's not like he's some slouch.

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Giannis is the better defender, due to his ability to guard 1-5. However, AD isn’t that far behind.

Offensively, it’s not even close. AD’s inside outside game is far superior, and he can hit the three. It’s too easy to defend against Giannis.

But Giannis is the better consistent PERFORMER in what he does..

Better player, AD
Better performer, Giannis.

________________________________________
"Take the surprise out your voice Shaq."-The REAL CP3
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v2H5K-BUMS0

I've just always felt like he was slightly overrated. Just like with other shit I'm not going to be hypocritical and switch up because he's a Laker now.

I was the same way with Bron and I love Bron but he's not on Jordan's level like a lot of people want him to be. In my mind he's still chasing Kobe, RINGS MATTER. I don't feel like digging up that post right now.

I said Nash and his 2 MVP's were hella bogus but I still rooted for him once he became a Laker even though he barely played for us.

Same with Jeremy Lin.

Back to AD when he was in New Orleans I couldn't figure out how a "top 5" player could barely make the playoffs and barely get out the first round.

In his college days I couldn't figure out how the best player could go scoreless in the national championship game even though his team won.

Now that he's a Laker and I see basically every game he plays especially in the playoffs his tremendous talent is obvious but its also obvious he has some holes in his game.

In game 4 Lebron tried to throw him an entry pass that he would've had to jump slightly for but he didn't and it went out of bounds. Lebron looked at him like "bruh.." lol. The cameras caught it too and showed a replay even the the game announcers were rambling on about something else.

In the interviews Lebron says all the right things as a leader but on the court its obvious that he gets frustrated at times.

But yeah I don't see how anybody could put AD about Giannis and Giannis has back-to-back MVP's and a DPOY and Davis has none of that.

________________________________________
"Take the surprise out your voice Shaq."-The REAL CP3
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v2H5K-BUMS0

<--- Big Baller World Order

________________________________________
"Take the surprise out your voice Shaq."-The REAL CP3
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v2H5K-BUMS0

and maybe rebounding
and IDK if Giannis as your initiator is what you even want if you're trying to win a title. AD makes up for it with being able to shoot 3s and having a total floor game
AD every bit his equal on offense at minimum, and a much better defender.

Giannis benefitting from narratives and premature crowning like Harden and Nash.

<--- Big Baller World Order

> as
>an overall offensive and defensive threat AD lapping him.

Offensive, I totally agree. AD has him beat there for sure. And that matters.

Defensive? Nah. Giannis is a Top 3 defender in the league. He doesn't create as many turnovers, but he's a better stopper and he's beyond deadly on any and all switches. There's a reason why Giannis led the NBA in defensive win shares and defensive BPM the last two seasons. He's right on par with AD imo.

Plus Giannis is two years younger than AD. It's definitely reasonable to think Giannis may not even have peaked yet-- which is crazy considering he just won two MVPs, lol.

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if he not willing to take the onus on himself to defend the other team best player and go out on the coaches flawed scheme then i gotta dock him for it.

edit: AD and Bron answered the bell when it was required. Giannis shrank.

<--- Big Baller World Order

And made it worse by trying to play through it.

And just because you take on one player for a possession doesn’t mean you guarded the player for the WHOLE game. Giannis did guard jimmy on a few possessions.

Lebron backed away on guarding jimmy on a lot of possessions....and AD didn’t guard jimmy for the whole game.

just wanted that on record cuz I know i've been going a little hard on him getting his Boo Boos


I'm just annoyed by that is all. From the convenience and comfort of my own couch bloated on IPAs

Bron, Kawhi, AD, Giannis, and KD are all built for the modern game. They're what you'd get if you could build basketball players in a Weird Science machine for today's NBA.

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________________________________________
"Take the surprise out your voice Shaq."-The REAL CP3
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v2H5K-BUMS0

___________________

Mar-A-Lago delenda est

AD about to win a Pippen ring? Cool. Steph has two of those, a RING ring, two MVPs, and a convincing case that he is the greatest offensive player who ever lived. When everybody’s healthy, it’s Durant, LeBron, and Steph, in that order. Do whatever you want with the other two spots.

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bshelly

"You (Fisher) could get fired, Les Snead could get fired, Kevin Demoff could get fired, but I will always be Eric Dickerson.” (c) The God

Did you slip out of the shower and fall on your noggen?

He has 1 scoring title, and he has only one year of 50 percent shooting. He can’t even come in the room, bro.

Kevin Durant has shot 50 percent from the field in 7 consecutive years, and he owns 4 scoring titles.

In order to be on the top 5 list of greatest offensive players of all time, the player must have multiple years of 50 percent shooting and multiple scoring titles.

Efficiency, scoring avg, and length of time are the metrics that are used to determine greatest offensive of all time.

KD -hands down- owns this era and generation....and it’s not even close.

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bshelly

"You (Fisher) could get fired, Les Snead could get fired, Kevin Demoff could get fired, but I will always be Eric Dickerson.” (c) The God

KD

27.1 ppg
Career 50pct shooter
4 scoring titles
True shooting pct: 61


Steph

20.7 PPg
Career 47 pct shooter
1 scoring title
True shooting pct: 62


How sway?

KD is a better offensive player than Steph. Both are top five ever. Top Five is something like KD, Steph, Bron, Wilt, and MJ. I’ll accept arguments that Kareem should be ahead of Steph.

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bshelly

"You (Fisher) could get fired, Les Snead could get fired, Kevin Demoff could get fired, but I will always be Eric Dickerson.” (c) The God

Not to bad of a list.

But I guess Adrian Dantley and George Gervin were before your time.


There are just so many players in the history of the game who are wayyyyyy above Steph.

Adrian Dantley is laughable.

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bshelly

"You (Fisher) could get fired, Les Snead could get fired, Kevin Demoff could get fired, but I will always be Eric Dickerson.” (c) The God

I’m just going say you’re being comical just to be comical.

Adrian’s Dantley was 6’4 - 6’5. And was basically a guard
playing SF.

And is the only player to score 30 points a game with 55 percent
shooting in 4 straight seasons. A center didn’t even do that which is shocking.

Shot 50 percent from the field in 14 seasons.

Avg 30 points a game in 4 straight season

2 scoring titles.

He beats Steph in almost every category: career PPG, shooting pct, scoring title

Where do you get this Steph stuff from? Because he hit long range circus shots?

I know I phrased that as a Make-Em-Mad Special... but I've seen the name "Pippen" thrown around a lot. People are acting like AD is just riding Bron's coattails to a title because AD joined Bron's team.

But it's not like the Lakers were special last year even *with* Bron. Yes, the Lakers were 9-18 without Bron last year... but they were 28-27 *with* Bron last year. So it's not like AD hopped in on some superteam. It wasn't a superteam until AD arrived.

But how many times did Pippen average more points per game than Jordan?
How many times did Pippen average more points per game than Jordan *in the playoffs*?
How many times did Pippen have more win shares and a higher win share per 48 than Jordan?

Davis is the better defender.
Davis creates more turnovers.
Davis has the higher PER.
Davis has the higher true shooting percentage.
Davis is the better free throw shooter (and shoots more free throws).

Of all the things I just mentioned (PPG, PPG in playoffs, win shares, win shares per 48, defense, turnover creation, true shooting percentage, free throw shooting)... Pippen wasn't notably better than Jordan at *any* of those, and Jordan was definitely notably better than Pippen at most of those.

I'm not saying Davis is better than Bron, necessarily-- Bron is easily the better playmaker, has the higher VORP, etc.-- but it's a looooot more evenly matched between them than people act like when they call AD the "Pippen."

Cuz if Pippen scored more points per game in the playoffs than Jordan, and Pippen was a better defender than Jordan, then referring to second bananas as "Pippens" wouldn't be a thing.

My movies: http://russellhainline.com
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However, I just need to make one correction. Pippen was the better defender. He guarded 1-5, and is considered the greatest perimeter defender ever. He was placed on Magic, which changed the series after the lakers won game 1, and he guarded Ewing, Barkley, Kemp, and Malone( at times, but mostly Dennis).

Jordan couldn’t guard 1-5....and pippen was often put on players that were faster than Jordan..... Iverson, Damon Stoudamire

And he made more all defensive teams. 10 to 9

>And he made more first all defensive teams.

Jordan made nine first All-Defense teams. Pippen made eight. And Jordan won a DPOY, which Pippen never did. And Jordan won the steals title three times to Pippen's one.

I'm not arguing Pippen *isn't* the better defender, because he was a more versatile defender. I'm arguing that he wasn't *clearly* the better defender in the same way that Davis is *clearly* a better defender than Bron.

My movies: http://russellhainline.com
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Before you responded.

Pippen made 10, Jordan made 9


And Pippen should have won at least 2 DPOY.....

Bron is a bigger star and he has the ball all the time. dumb dumb fans that only watch one side of the ball and highlights look at that and think it's Bron 1 AD 2 instead of Bron 1 and AD 1

it's like having a star QB and a star MLB/Safety. the QB gonna get all the credit, but the MLB is equally as important for running the defense. AD is our MLB. he's just also elite offensively.

<--- Big Baller World Order

he has all the talent in the world on both ends of the court.

But he's not a leader. He's soft. He's lazy. Every time he takes a hit he falls out like he's about to die.

He's the ultimate complimentary piece. But if he's the guy you count on night in and night out you might get to the 2nd round.

________________________________________
"Take the surprise out your voice Shaq."-The REAL CP3
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v2H5K-BUMS0

I wouldn't go as far as to call him lazy, but he is a bit soft and if he stays after Bron retires I don't really see him being THE guy on a title team. It should be noted that it's tough for a big man in this league to be THE guy anyway, and maybe he keeps adding to his game and proves me wrong, but at the moment I just don't see it. I think he's in that 6th-8th best range depending on how you view Harden and Dame. I'd place him firmly above Embiid and (temporarily) above Luka though.

When's AD ever played with a Wade or an Irving? This Laker team is the first time Bron's ever won a title without multiple All-NBA-winning players behind him on the roster. Does Bron ever win a title as The Guy if his supporting players never get better than an injured Demarcus Cousins and Jrue Holiday?

I think it's really easy to say *any* of these top players who haven't won a title can't "be the guy" if they've never had the help that guys like Bron and Durant have had. That's not even to take anything away from Bron or Durant! You still have to deliver, and they have. But guys like AD, Giannis, Dame, even Luka... it's waaaaay easier to envision them being The Guy on a winning roster once they have multiple All-NBA guys with them. Because the best players in the world still need help to get over that hump and win that title.

My movies: http://russellhainline.com
My movie reviews: https://letterboxd.com/RussellHFilm/
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>Does Bron ever win a title as The Guy if his supporting
>players never get better than an injured Demarcus Cousins and
>Jrue Holiday?

And the supporting cast on his early Cavs teams were fine at best, yet he brought them to the finals once and was knocking on the door a couple other times.

But guys like AD, Giannis, Dame,
>even Luka... it's waaaaay easier to envision them being The
>Guy on a winning roster once they have multiple All-NBA guys
>with them.

Yeah, but let’s build hypothetical superteams with AD and each of those guys individually. Who’s gonna be the focal point in the 4th quarter of a must-win game? Outside of maybe Luka just cause he’s still young, I’m choosing the other guy. I’m not even saying he sucks down the stretch or anything, and we’re talking about top 10 players so you kinda can’t go wrong, but my gut feeling is give the ball to the other guy.