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Subject: "Three Ring Circus: Kobe, Shaq, Phil, and the Crazy Years of the Lakers D..." Previous topic | Next topic
Cold Truth
Member since Jan 28th 2004
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Tue Sep-22-20 06:20 PM

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"Three Ring Circus: Kobe, Shaq, Phil, and the Crazy Years of the Lakers D..."


  

          

https://www.amazon.com/Three-Ring-Circus-Crazy-Lakers-Dynasty-ebook/dp/B081TTYZ6B

Just copped the Audible. Starting it now.

Anyone else get this? It just dropped today.

I'll shoot a review once I finish.

  

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Topic Outline
Subject Author Message Date ID
JUST finished today’s LeBatard and he had the author on....
Sep 22nd 2020
1
Does it cover that L train y’all rode against a
Sep 22nd 2020
2
pressed
Sep 22nd 2020
3
right...and gone bam up a good post
Sep 22nd 2020
4
My goodness this is a lot of tough talk from the class of 1998
Sep 22nd 2020
5
I can’t front
Sep 22nd 2020
11
Yo, take this shit somewhere else
Sep 22nd 2020
6
      It’s not that serious. Not even close.
Sep 22nd 2020
7
           just shut the entire fuck up. take your outdated gimmick somewhere else
Sep 22nd 2020
8
           just shut the entire fuck up. take your outdated gimmick somewhere else
Sep 22nd 2020
9
What is the view on kobe’s Legacy in regards to the rape
Sep 22nd 2020
10
it's still a sore spot for me
Sep 23rd 2020
12
it was dealt with in its time, no need to bring it up on some gotcha shi...
Sep 23rd 2020
13
his apology makes him difficult to really understand fully for me
Sep 23rd 2020
14
      It was a requirement as part of the settlement.
Sep 23rd 2020
16
           Same reason why Ben Rothliesburger’s victim chose not to
Sep 23rd 2020
18
           which is interesting in its own right
Sep 23rd 2020
19
           A civil court case was levied against Ben just like it was against Kobe
Sep 23rd 2020
21
           That's what I just said.
Sep 23rd 2020
20
           yes, because what happens in rape trials, is that the rapist goes to pri...
Sep 23rd 2020
22
                Way to cherry pick .
Sep 23rd 2020
23
The Jack Mckinney part, though...
Sep 23rd 2020
15
I just hit the Shaq background portion.
Sep 23rd 2020
17
Loved Pearlman’s book on the Showtime Lakers
Sep 23rd 2020
24
Yeah.... this isn't remotely kind to Kobe so far.
Sep 24th 2020
25

Dstl1
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Tue Sep-22-20 06:45 PM

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1. "JUST finished today’s LeBatard and he had the author on...."
In response to Reply # 0


          

about to cop in a few. He told a crazy Kobe/Samaki Walker story.

...I'm from the era when A.I. was the answer, now they think ai is the answer - Marlon Craft

  

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allStah
Member since Jun 21st 2014
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Tue Sep-22-20 06:58 PM

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2. "Does it cover that L train y’all rode against a "
In response to Reply # 0
Tue Sep-22-20 06:59 PM by allStah

          

bunch of role players?

4 hall of famers got swept

Peace.

  

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DJR
Member since Jan 01st 2005
18569 posts
Tue Sep-22-20 07:06 PM

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3. "pressed "
In response to Reply # 2


  

          

  

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Dstl1
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Tue Sep-22-20 07:18 PM

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4. "right...and gone bam up a good post"
In response to Reply # 3


          

.

...I'm from the era when A.I. was the answer, now they think ai is the answer - Marlon Craft

  

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Ryan M
Member since Oct 21st 2002
43715 posts
Tue Sep-22-20 07:21 PM

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5. "My goodness this is a lot of tough talk from the class of 1998"
In response to Reply # 2


  

          

------------------------------

17x NBA Champions

  

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allStah
Member since Jun 21st 2014
9816 posts
Tue Sep-22-20 09:12 PM

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11. "I can’t front "
In response to Reply # 5


          

That’s funny.

  

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Cold Truth
Member since Jan 28th 2004
44805 posts
Tue Sep-22-20 07:42 PM

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6. "Yo, take this shit somewhere else "
In response to Reply # 2
Tue Sep-22-20 07:44 PM by Cold Truth

  

          

Work this wack ass act in other posts.

Don't come through to fuck up a light post with your Trapped In 2009 Message Board Interaction script.

If you want to talk about the book, the interactions reported in the book, look back at shit, cool.

But bruh

You're on a fucking bender and a half right now. You're deep into a prolonged manic (in terms of message board interaction, not your actual, offsite mental health) episode.

Take a motherfucking break. Have a seat. A coke. A smile.

One of the main subjects of this book fucking died this year.
This book was written (at least mostly) before that happened
Which means we're not getting a motherfucking rose tint to this shit.

I'm in chapter one and this shit starts by talking about how Kobe, a millionaire, assaulted a teammate over a hundred dollars. It's appeared in other books, namely Showboat, but it's a raw story.

Shit... Kobe's rape allegation is brought up from jump.

It's called Three Ring Circus.

Which pretty much screams "SHIT IS WILD SON!"

So yeah, they'll get into the good, the bad, the ugly, and the really fucking ugly.

Which means they'll cover that particular implosion.

ALL that shit is a big part of why this particular team, and the players involved, are so fucking interesting.

All that shit is why, after being covered in Shaq's book, Phil's Book, and Kobe's book, we got another book devoted entirely to the subject, in 2020.

But yo

Put the goddamned character shit down for a post.
You're all in on this method shit. Take a fucking break.
Actually, you know... chop it up.

Like a human being, instead of a malignant screen name that's starving for negative attention.

  

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allStah
Member since Jun 21st 2014
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Tue Sep-22-20 07:57 PM

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7. "It’s not that serious. Not even close. "
In response to Reply # 6
Tue Sep-22-20 08:05 PM by allStah

          

You typed dozens of paragraph over a sly comment.


And I don’t touch yall’s Kobe posts or serious serious lakers stuff.

But. Actually, I feel you.

  

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Cold Truth
Member since Jan 28th 2004
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Tue Sep-22-20 08:12 PM

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8. "just shut the entire fuck up. take your outdated gimmick somewhere else"
In response to Reply # 7


  

          

You came in with some fuck shit like always.

And if you don't think this qualifies as a Kobe post, you're mistaken.

His relationships with everyone else for better or worse, is the element that most makes any of this interesting at all.

Love him or hate him, he's still the star of this particular show.

And for those of us who still grieve his death, this book isn't some puff piece reprieve. It wil get into all the ugly shit, and all that's worth discussing.

All I'm saying is, put the gimmicky shit down for this one, or just take as pass.

You're like a hack standup comic who thinks every room he's in is the perfect place to practice an act that already gets him booed off stages.

  

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Cold Truth
Member since Jan 28th 2004
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Tue Sep-22-20 08:22 PM

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9. "just shut the entire fuck up. take your outdated gimmick somewhere else"
In response to Reply # 7


  

          

You came in with some fuck shit like always.

And if you don't think this qualifies as a Kobe post, you're mistaken.

His relationships with everyone else for better or worse, is the element that most makes any of this interesting at all.

Love him or hate him, he's still the star of this particular show.

And for those of us who still grieve his death, this book isn't some puff piece reprieve. It wil get into all the ugly shit, and all that's worth discussing.

All I'm saying is, put the gimmicky shit down for this one, or just take as pass.

You're like a hack standup comic who thinks every room he's in is the perfect place to practice an act that already gets him booed off stages.

  

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allStah
Member since Jun 21st 2014
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Tue Sep-22-20 08:46 PM

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10. "What is the view on kobe’s Legacy in regards to the rape "
In response to Reply # 0


          

allegations he had to endure?

He was a huge supporter of the WNBA, and he really got involved with
the players and camps. Being a coach in the WNBA was definitely in his
future.

However, the ME TOO movement still perceived him as a rapist. When Lisa Leslie
was talking to Gayle King regarding Kobe’s legacy , Gayle brought up the rape case that Kobe had to deal with, and asked Lisa to give her opinion on the matter.

The criminal case was dropped because the girl refused to testify, but a civil case was pursued, and it was settled out of court.

  

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CherNic
Member since Aug 18th 2005
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Wed Sep-23-20 08:27 AM

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12. "it's still a sore spot for me"
In response to Reply # 10


  

          

I never watched the Gayle/Lisa interview but I didn't think Gayle was totally wrong.

That trial was a HUGE story. It was mid fucking season. After winning multiple rings. Player in his prime caught up in that dumb shit. And his lawyers dragged the accuser through the MUD.

People also forget he called that ref a homophobic slur. Yes he apologized and learned but Kobe was....problematic for sure. His post-retirement career rehabbed his image a LOT

  

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BrooklynWHAT
Member since Jun 15th 2007
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Wed Sep-23-20 08:35 AM

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13. "it was dealt with in its time, no need to bring it up on some gotcha shi..."
In response to Reply # 10


  

          

especially how Gayle did it. that was disgusting.

<--- Big Baller World Order

  

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Tiger Woods
Member since Feb 15th 2004
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Wed Sep-23-20 09:47 AM

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14. "his apology makes him difficult to really understand fully for me"
In response to Reply # 10


  

          

specifically:

"Although I truly believe this encounter between us was consensual, I recognize now that she did not and does not view this incident the same way I did. After months of reviewing discovery, listening to her attorney, and even her testimony in person, I now understand how she feels that she did not consent to this encounter."

like, what ARE we supposed to do with that? I don't have the answer. I loved him. I truly believe he grew into a good man. But that part of the apology is really troubling.

  

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Cold Truth
Member since Jan 28th 2004
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Wed Sep-23-20 12:51 PM

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16. "It was a requirement as part of the settlement."
In response to Reply # 14
Wed Sep-23-20 12:57 PM by Cold Truth

  

          

Which guaranteed that he could avoid prison and move forward with his life.

"we" aren't supposed to do anything with that. It just is.

That statement wasn't for us.
It wasn't even for the alleged victim, not in any real sense.
It was a hoop to jump through.

It was a requirement to settle. It doesn't read like anything any person actually says. It's PR boilerplate.

Absent a full trial, we can all armchair attorney this shit and arrive at different conclusions.

Just as people choose to read into the apology as an admission of guilt on his part, we can just as easily read into it as an admission of his innocence on her part.

After all, if he really was a rapist, and she really was his victim, why not put him in prison?

Likewise, the justification for her to demand this as part of a settlement, if Kobe truly was guilty, is no different from Kobe's justification for agreeing to make the statement:

So she can just move on with her life, and avoid a nasty trial that she could ultimately lose, while being dragged to hell and back along the way.

Problem is, we have to fill in too many gaps in the narrative to arrive at any conclusion about the apology other than the bare bones obvious:

That the apology doesn't really point to anything other than meeting a requirement in a settlement.

  

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allStah
Member since Jun 21st 2014
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Wed Sep-23-20 01:47 PM

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18. "Same reason why Ben Rothliesburger’s victim chose not to "
In response to Reply # 16
Wed Sep-23-20 02:13 PM by allStah

          

to pursue a criminal case. The woman was so traumatized over what happened to her, she entered a mental institution. After the alleged rape took place, she informed her bosses and security, but her claims were disregarded. The security guy even admitted that when she reported it to him, he thought it was just a “date rape thing.” She said that one of the reasons she didn’t pursue a criminal case, was because the Hotel she worked for, where the rape happened, tried to cover it up.

If you look at some Islamic countries where women are raped, the woman is usually blamed, and the woman’s family looks at it as shame brought onto them. Woman have been killed and stoned to death because they were blamed for the men raping them.

So just because a woman refuses to pursue a criminal case, it is not a claim that the rape didn’t take place. More often than not, it’s quite the opposite.

With so many women coming forward about being raped and sexually assaulted, and keeping it a secret for decades or years, clearly illustrates the difficulty for a woman
to reveal such a situation.

It leaves a huge ,huge dark stain.

  

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Beamer6178
Member since Jan 09th 2006
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Wed Sep-23-20 02:14 PM

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19. "which is interesting in its own right"
In response to Reply # 18


  

          

>to pursue a criminal case, and there was absolute evidence
>that Ben raped
>that woman. However, the woman was so traumatized over what
>happened to her, she
>just wanted it to all go away. Plus she didn’t want to bring
>attention to her family. That was her main reason.
>

Roethlisberger had established a pattern of such conduct, whereas Kobe was accused in one incident, yet only one of them ever went to trial. I mean white man black man this is America, but that Ben's happened after Kobe with such latitude to create some new image, was so...American.

It should not be lost on any the problematic history of white women accusing Black men of rape, and that were it not someone with the resources of Kobe Bryant in THAT town, a Black man would have likely gone to jail, whether or not he was guilty of the accusation.

  

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allStah
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Wed Sep-23-20 02:57 PM

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21. "A civil court case was levied against Ben just like it was against Kobe"
In response to Reply # 19
Wed Sep-23-20 02:58 PM by allStah

          

and both settled out of court.

I don’t agree with the black/white angle that you are insinuating. It’s more of a power angle, because both are and were super mega pro athletes, with the resources and image to avert being criminalized.

Black athletes have gotten away with some serious criminal situations all because
their image and abilities were/are worth billions.

Now, in a normal, everyday person situation, I agree with you.

  

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Cold Truth
Member since Jan 28th 2004
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Wed Sep-23-20 02:34 PM

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20. "That's what I just said."
In response to Reply # 18


  

          

"Likewise, the justification for her to demand this as part of a settlement, if Kobe truly was guilty, is no different from Kobe's justification for agreeing to make the statement:

So she can just move on with her life, and avoid a nasty trial that she could ultimately lose, while being dragged to hell and back along the way."

My point is that the statement itself doesn't lend itself to any reading other than as a requirement for a settlement. It shouldn't be a hang up for anyone, lending credence or question to any particular conclusion.

The logic we would apply in examining why she wouldn't just lock him up, is the same logic we would apply to examining why an innocent man with means would pay up and give such an apology for a crime he did not commit.

If someone thinks he's guilty, the apology would be the worst possible reason.

  

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Rjcc
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Wed Sep-23-20 03:49 PM

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22. "yes, because what happens in rape trials, is that the rapist goes to pri..."
In response to Reply # 16


          

there's absolutely no evidence to the contrary on this point

"After all, if he really was a rapist, and she really was his victim, why not put him in prison?"


www.engadgethd.com - the other stuff i'm looking at

  

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Cold Truth
Member since Jan 28th 2004
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Wed Sep-23-20 03:54 PM

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23. "Way to cherry pick . "
In response to Reply # 22


  

          

If you had an actual point, you wouldn't have needed to pull one sentence out of context.

Which means... well, you already know what that means.

Which is why you did it.

  

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Dstl1
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Wed Sep-23-20 11:47 AM

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15. "The Jack Mckinney part, though..."
In response to Reply # 0


          

and goodness was Jack Kent Cook a dickhead!!

...I'm from the era when A.I. was the answer, now they think ai is the answer - Marlon Craft

  

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Cold Truth
Member since Jan 28th 2004
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Wed Sep-23-20 12:55 PM

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17. "I just hit the Shaq background portion."
In response to Reply # 15


  

          

I'm still early in the book.

Honestly, so far, no punches have been pulled. I'm dying at the way he dragged Ceballos. I have vague memories of his behavior, with Havasu being the thing I most remember.

I don't recall at all the negative team reaction to Magic's return though, so that was new. He was not kind in his telling of Magic's return.

I expect this to get more brutal as it goes on.

  

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DJR
Member since Jan 01st 2005
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Wed Sep-23-20 05:29 PM

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24. "Loved Pearlman’s book on the Showtime Lakers"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

Definitely copping this one. Will wait for bad weather to read it though.

  

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Cold Truth
Member since Jan 28th 2004
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Thu Sep-24-20 07:00 PM

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25. "Yeah.... this isn't remotely kind to Kobe so far. "
In response to Reply # 0
Thu Sep-24-20 07:02 PM by Cold Truth

  

          

It's definitely a rough read/listen in light of Kobe's passing.

I'm at a part where he's discussing the Chris Childs incident, and so far, Pearlman doesn't even try to look at anything from Kobe's perspective with anything resembling sincerity.

There are a handful of quotes about how impressed people were with his work ethic, but that's about it. There's a Kobe quote here and there about Shaq's free throws or general lazyness, but it's heavily slanted toward siding with everyone's gripes with Kobe.

I.e, Pearlman, like countless others, tells the oft-told stores of Kobe's isolation from a standpoint of him simply being arrogant. He'll point out that he was still a kid on a team full of grown men, but still lean heavily into the arrogance narrative as the reason for him keeping to himself.

Stories about Kobe living in his headphones are emphasized as him walling off everyone else.... but in other passages, he writes about how the entire bus would have their headphones on.

Another examples of this is the way he paints Kobe's lack of small talk as yet another character flaw.

As someone who goes to work and largely keeps to myself for multiple reasons, among them the fact that I really don't have anything in common with most of my coworkers, I think it's incredibly narrow to make the leap to arrogance for this behavior.

There's enough credible and obvious "Kobe's an asshole" moments that he doesn't need to add the extra sauce on shit like this. The way he describes Kobe's treatment of Jimmy King is downright abusive.

To be fair, the book is about the craziness of this team, and despite what I see as a standout divide in the overall narrative between Kobe in the rest of the team, pretty much everyone gets portrayed in a negative light- but he definitely spends a disproportionate amount of time highlighting people's issues with Kobe, Shaq in particular, while the moments where he'll touch on Kobe's perspective are treated as an aside.

What irks me is that the only people he portrays in a positive light seem to be coaches. He COMPLETELY glosses over the incident where Del Harris pushes Nick Van Exel, like that's not an egregious line crossing, despite elaborating a great deal about Shaq bitch slapping Ostertag. He gushes about what a genuis Del Harris is, how nice he is, how much he just wanted Nick to like him. So far I don't think anyone else gets that sort of superlative treatment.

Of course, when Shaq smacked the soul out of Ostertag so badly he was, allegedly, on the ground in a fetal position, he makes sure to tell us how Jerry West reacted by getting in Shaq's face, calling him an embarrassment, and threatened to trade him if it ever happened again.

But we get exactly zero idea of how West reacted to Del putting his hands on a player and telling him he'd beat his ass.

Maybe I'm reading into it, but he seems to relish pointing out the missteps of players, while shrugging off those of the coaches.

Certain other shit rubs me the wrong way. He portrays the 99 lockout as "millionaires arguing with billionaires over money neither of them deserve", which is a moronic comment I expect from average, rat racing Joe's, but it was a little jarring to see here.

I lost count of how many times he refers to Rodman as crazy, or caling him a freak. He could have told all of the Rodman stories, detailing his eccentricities and general instability, without taking that extra step. It's not like the market for this book is unfamiliar with Dennis Rodman. We'd have gotten the point just by telling the stories.

He talks about Phil's "The sheep hears his masters voice" comment to Horry.... but, as with Dell, he sort of brushes it off. He says this didn't sit well with the African American players, but that Phil was speaking from a biblical context (doesn't make it any better, or less tonedeaf IMO), and that Phil was embarassed.

Conversely, he really amps up Horry's missteps in Phoenix, royally trashing his character before explaining that he was dealing with his daughter's illness.

Conversely? Ainge got zero scrutiny for the towel incident, and we even got a quote from Ainge saying it wasn't his fault in the slightest.

I love the book because it's about my personal golden age of the game, favorite team, and favorite players, during an era where I was highly engaged with the team and the league, but there are elements of Pearlman's angles that make me question his character.

  

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