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1 Golden State (15-50)
TOP4:52.1%
#1: 14.0%

2 Cleveland (19-46)
TOP4: 52.1%
#1: 14.0%

3 Minnesota (19-45)
TOP4: 52.1%
#1: 14.0%

4 Atlanta (20-47)
TOP4: 48.1%
#1: 12.5%

5 Detroit (20-46)
TOP4: 42.1%
#1: 10.5%

6 New York (21-45)
TOP 4: 37.2%
#1: 9.0%

7 Chicago (22-43)
TOP 4: 32.0%
#1: 7.5%

8 Charlotte (23-42)
TOP 4: 26.3%
#1: 6.0%

9 Washington (25-47)
TOP4: 20.3%
#1: 4.5%

10 Phoenix (34-39)
TOP4: 13.9%
#1: 3.0%

11 San Antonio (32-39)
TOP4: 9.4%
#1: 2.0%

12 Sacramento (31-41)
TOP4: 6.2%
#1: 1.3%

13 New Orleans (30-42)
TOP4: 5.7%
#1: 1.2%

14 Memphis (to Boston)(34-39)
TOP4: 2.4%
#1: 0.5%

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The only difference with this year is that with a new front office
I know the Bulls are going to be looking for prospects outside of Ames,Iowa for a change.

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pretty sure garpax voted republican.

just because of how mad it will make people.

------------------------------

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------------------------------

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It looks weak but I know nothing.

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But usually when the #1 pick is between more than 2 guys, it’s not great.

------------------------------

17x NBA Champions

>But usually when the #1 pick is between more than 2 guys,
>it’s not great.

Longo is usually pretty good at giving some insight to some of these guys.

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I know the knock on him is that he doesn't fit in the current NBA, but I figured his size would keep him at #1 or #2 (though I doubt the Warriors would take him).

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Even with the red flags that Ball has (the defense, the shitty-looking shot, etc.), he's still, at worst, a 6'8 PG with strong handles, good passing ability, and the athleticism to become a terrific NBA player under the right coaching staff. (The Warriors, for instance, would do wonders with him.)

Wiseman's ceiling, on the other hand, is, in my opinion, something like... DeAndre Jordan with slightly better offense. I don't think he's a shooter (heard a little of this talk, and I think it's a *massive* cyse from what we've seen), and he's definitely not a passer-- he's a guy you put down low and count on to protect the rim, grab boards, switch on D, and run better than other bigs. He can definitely fill that role... but do you fill that role with a top 2 pick in today's NBA? Additionally, there are real concerns about his competitive edge, how much he loves to work on his game. Even when he was the number one HS prospect, he didn't make an all-EYBL team. I know I've read that GSW would be good for helping him reach his full potential... but it's not like Golden State ever got full potential out of Damian Jones, another guy whose love of the game was questioned coming out of college. Wiseman is obviously better than Damian Jones... but I bet his floor is closer to Damian Jones than people suspect.

I just can't see the Warriors drafting Wiseman over Ball. Ball is a perfect fit for the motion offense and carries considerable upside-- being around guys like Curry, Klay, and Dray would be perfect for him. I wouldn't be surprised if Wiseman ends up going closer to the 4-6 range... and really, if he goes top 3, it's mostly because it's such a weak class up top. He wouldn't even be top 8 in 2021 imo.

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Most of the HS OAD prospects who were deemed likely lotto picks find themselves on the back end of the lotto or below. So we’ve got this thing where the entire top 45 should have good talent— plenty of five stars, plenty of guys who were projected lotto at one point— but also lots of obvious question marks. Not too many “safe picks,” not too many guys with home run multi-ASG potential, but lots of guys who have starter potential if they max their potential. Could sneakily become a draft with multiple low-first-round All-Stars... or could become an epically bad draft. Lots of wiggle room.

And most of the lotto guys* with ASG potential also have some real concerns too— outside of Edwards, there really isn’t a “just draft him” no-brainer guy at the top. I’ve got guys where I like the potential more than the questions and vice versa... but I’ve got to feel like we’ll see a team or two trade down or out of the top 10.

*- excepting the overseas guys, about whom I admittedly know next to nothing.

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Honestly, they could still go up and get Wiseman or Edwards if they really wanted to.

Lots of options for the Bulls at 4.

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Apparently a human named Deni Avdija is an option.

and with that gone, I have no idea who any of these guys are.
According to the Bulls, you can run Dunn out there and be OK at SF.

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I really like Isaac Okoro at the 3, but he'd probably be a reach at 4-- he'd be available around 9-10 and provide really good value imo. Patrick Williams has *big* potential if you're looking for the high potential guy over the "safer" guy-- he might be a guy someone takes above his current projection in this draft for exactly that reason.

I admittedly know nothing about Deni.

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and sf is the thinnest position on the roster.

we have young guys at every other position. those same young guys have been subject to coaching purgatory the past two years. they all deserve a clean slate and an opportunity to reach their potential. drafting a sf makes sense if there is a guy. but it doesn't really sound like there is a guy.

>I really like Isaac Okoro at the 3, but he'd probably be a
>reach at 4-- he'd be available around 9-10 and provide really
>good value imo. Patrick Williams has *big* potential if you're
>looking for the high potential guy over the "safer" guy-- he
>might be a guy someone takes above his current projection in
>this draft for exactly that reason.
>

Appreciate this Thanks.

Like I said, I know nothing about the overseas kids at present (save for LaMelo), but he seems a consensus Top 5 guy, so if it's a serious long term positional need, then maybe that's where to go. Either him or a tradeback-- because I don't think there's some obvious transcendent slam dunk talent after Edwards (and, arguably, Ball).

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Bulls are just waiting for Porter and Felicio's albatross contracts to get off the books for 2021.

Bulls promised (ugh) and drafted Chandler Hutchison, and like Random said, he's been under a very poor coach his entire career. He's also been injured so, we don't know exactly how good he is. I say if there is a SF option available, the Bulls have to do it.

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#1 - Minny...Edwards just seems natural but they may risk it on Wiseman to let KAT play out of the lane a little more but I doubt it. Edwards just makes way more sense.

#2 - G-State...being in win now mode has a few options and i'd lean 70% toward them trying to deal it for a better asset. Wiz make the most sense but they'll want more for beal likely...unless the warriors agreed to take Wall's contract with him, and they won't but if they keep this pick, Wiseman makes the most sense. Steph is not going anywhere anytime soon, Ball sucks on D and has probably 3 yrs before he figures it all out. Wiseman could be useful as a big who'll be expected to dunk, rebound, play D and maybe hit the occasional jumper. Perfect for him imo.

#3 - Hornets...might end up stuck with ball unless someone trades with the warriors to get him at #2. I can't really figure these guys out. Wiseman would be good for them because they are garbage inside. And ball isn't an upgrade on Graham at this point (in a few yrs maybe). AND they signed Rozier last year so 3 PG's don't make a ton of sense. Have no clue where they are though.

#4 - Bulls...we need a SF. Otto can't stay on the court. Not sure what Hutch is. If we get the right developmental coach, we should get some great insight this year on what we really have. I still think we are good enough to challenge for a 7-8 playoff spot. I'd prefer Wiseman (barring Edwards being an option via trade but even then, he presents a glut at SG unless we convert Lavine and he's not strong enough for that position) but that'll cause a glut in the bigs with Wcj, Lauri and Garrett already set up (not to mention young). Trading down might actually be better.

____________

Their bigs right now are, what, Zeller and Biyombo? Am I missing someone?

If Wiseman is gone (50-50 shot-- I'd think the Warriors take Ball, but what do I know?), trade back a couple spots with someone keen on LaMelo and target Onyeka Okongwu. I'm thinking Okongwu is gonna be *super* popular this draft, because you rarely find guys that athletic with that high a motor. This won't be another year where a Brandon Clarke slips through the cracks because people are overthinking it.

I wouldn't be surprised if Okongwu scrapes his way into the Top 3, honestly.

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That's why I figured they wouldn't go Wiseman cause they have him inside.

Although I think PG is 6'9 and plays outside some.

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Do they play him at the center spot? I like PJ, but I don’t know if I “primary 5 in a small ball lineup” like PJ.

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Apparently the Warriors like Edwards the most, and up until recently local papers were saying that they'd be able to get him at like #5, but that appears to have changed. I kind of doubt the Wolves will draft Edwards if they have Russell tho.

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You pick him and deal with the rest later. Besides, Edwards and Russell would be a formidable pair of guards to build around.

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Like, his usage was higher than Cole Anthony's. And his teammates were notably worse.

Plus, they were playing from behind a lot, so Edwards chucked way more 3s than he should-- but he made 77% from the stripe, and I like his form.

He's also just a fighter. Saw the kid throw his team on his back in so many games to try to fight his way out of a hole. Nearly singlehandedly beat Michigan State. Love the fight, love the athleticism, love the body. I think he'd still be top 5-6 in next year's loaded draft.

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Between Edwards being, imo, the safer prospect, and between the inevitable campaigning by Ball's team to get him onto the Warriors, that seems like it'll be where he winds up. And it'd be a great pick for them.

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the surprise development of DG, plus Rozier coming into his own
if PJ, monk, and miles make any kind of a leap this year
plus the no.3 pick???
could be one of the fastest rebuilds ever

HYPE FOR CLT!!

before league suspended?

-----
Cameo
Soundshape Records

but we generally feel he has a massive ceiling
really on him to put in the work and capitalize tho
hopefully his ordeal last year gets him after it

<--- Big Baller World Order

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swapping picks (plus probably a first rounder in the next two seasons) with whomever takes Obi Toppin at picks 5-8?

dude just seems like a great big for a team like that. strong, super athletic, runs the floor, shoots the 3 (40% last season on 82 attempts). maybe dude is a horrible passer and that's an issue if you're gonna be on GS, but i dunno.

another move I guess is take Ball and have him play PG with Steph AND Klay playing off the ball. that would seem like a nightmare for most teams defensively especially with LaMelo's playmaking ability.

He's an elite leaper, but foot speed isn't that good. He can run in transition decently, but his athleticism doesn't really translate to end-to-end speed.

But his passing is fucking great for a big. Great at passing out of the paint, great at the high-low game.

I just don't think he's ever going to be a net positive defender, which probably isn't ideal for a stretch 4/small ball 5.

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so i'm probably making more of it in my mind, lol.

could be a good fit but maybe not.

either way, GS got a lot of options. even trading the pick for a (more or less) all-star level vet.

good "problems" to have i guess.

...you just described Denzel Valentine.

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Once you've done that, it's really not a bad comparison.

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Their windows is now and they don’t have time to teach or bring along
a teenage player.

Send Wiggins and the number 2 pick and one of their other picks to Washington for
Bradley Beal. They get an extra gun, and they can build around him once the championship run is over.

Or, as a bulls fan, send us Wiggins and the number 2 pick for Zach Lavine. It would be like for like almost, with Lavine being the slightly better offensive player, but Wiggins is better on defense. Golden state gets another Gun to get more titles and build around. That gives us a young scorer in Wiggins to pair with White, and we would have the number 2 and number 4 picks. Get Lamelo Ball and a good small forward, or get wiseman if he falls to 4. Bring in Kenny Atkinson to develop Wiggins and the youngins.

Wiseman/Markkanen/Porter/Wiggins/Lamelo. ...white as instant offense off the bench.

and eventual successor to one of the splash brothers.

Let's be real, the Warriors "window" closed when KD left. 2015 was a long time ago in NBA years. They are not a title team as currently constructed.

... it would take the Warriors .0000001 second to accept. Then they'd all laugh like Ray Liotta in Goodfellas.

I agree that Melo is a great fit for the Warriors... but I do think they'd be *desperate* to offload Wiggins's inefficient volume scoring, terrible defense, and disgusting contract. If they can get any value out of flipping Wiggins and a top pick in a weak draft class, it'd be an absolute windfall for them. Zero chance the Bulls would actually offer Lavine, as it'd be the biggest Chicago tragedy since Mrs. O'Leary's cow kicked over that lantern, but god, would it be funny. The Wiz offering Beal would be funny too.

I don't know how attractive any Wiggins-related package would actually be, but I suppose there are terrible and/or desperate front offices out there.

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lol.

all of what you said plus i think the Dubs would get a WHOLE different Zach Lavine.

it's obvious he hates Chicago (the team, not the city). he's a West Coast guy and i think him being in an offense first, winning system would see him do everything more efficiently and i think he'd put in a shit ton more effort too.

Zach Lavine is praying for that trade too.

https://clutchpoints.com/3-stars-the-warriors-can-trade-for-with-the-no-2-overall-pick

Well, three names are being suggested.

Embid
Giannis
Beal.

Now, we know damn well Embid and Giannis ain’t going nowhere. Plus it would take more than Wiggins and some picks to get them. So scratch that.

So Beal and Zach are the only two that make sense because of their age, all star ability, plus both play on shitty teams. Beal and Wall cannot coexist and Washington ain’t going anywhere. We all know that Brooklyn has their eye on Beal, and WERE willing to ship Levert and Dimwiddie to Washington for Beal. But after the tough play of Levert and Brooklyn in the bubble. Levert ain’t going anywhere, because he is walking buckets with great defense. The Trade wouldn’t make sense. So that leaves the door open for Golden State, because they have so many assets to offer. And Beal in Golden State at the start of his prime is very attractive.

Zach Lavine is who is. A high scoring gunning wing, with zero defense, which drives Chicago crazy. He will score 40, but not guard a single soul. He just wants to light it up. After every bulls’ loss , David Kaplan ( espn1000 am chicago) always goes in on his defense . The bulls aren’t going anywhere anytime soon, and to have the 2 and number 4 pick with the top 5 talent that is available would set us up nicely. And if it means taking on Wiggins,, hey, I would take that . Put him under solid development and see where it goes.

>Zach Lavine is who is. A high scoring gunning wing, with zero
>defense, which drives Chicago crazy. After
>every bulls’ loss , David Kaplan ( espn1000 am chicago)
>always goes in on his defense .

Also, that Clutchpoints article was written by a lunatic.

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Every citric or scout is a lunatic except Frankie . Okay.

Well, we already know how your predictions turn out...so there is that , and every god damn Duke player that you hype and have hyped.

So I don’t want here it.

You said none of the deals in that article would ever happen because they aren't realistic. I was agreeing.

Good grief, lol.

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My bad. You snark so much. Can’t tell. Lol

My bad. Seriously. I’m not into dissing cats for shits and giggles.

Cool.

I'm just here because I watch a fuckload of college hoops and like talking about it. That's it. I know we don't agree a lot, and that's cool, but that doesn't mean I'm just gonna disagree with *everything* you say out of boredom or principle or whatever, lol.

So yeah. Any article writer who includes Giannis in a Wiggins package? Absolutely out of his gourd. 100%.

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and a draft pick?

At this point in his career would LaVine be willing to play 3rd fiddle to Steph and Klay?

We are not in love with Zach Fucking Lavine! I watch that dude almost every other night. He will get 30 or 40 every other game or so...but he will also force shit and not pass nor play defense. He is a really good player, but he ain’t it ..he ain’t leading us to a title. He is an entrainment filler to keep us watchable while we suck. He is not an all around player.

If it means owning the 2nd and 4th pick? Hell yes! I’ll take Wiggins for a year and then dump him on a PO team looking for help. See if Kenny can develop him.

That would make it possible to get Lamelo and Wiseman....I would ship Lavine with the quickness... nigga I would ship Lavine for Landry Shamet right now! Lol... and I ain’t joking.

And again I like Lamelo to go to a very young team with a coach like Atkinson to develop him.

Don’t get me wrong. I’m a fan of Lamelo’s and I love his game.

However, he has two issues almost just like his brother: his shooting and inability to play defense. We live in a 3 and D league! If you can’t do that, you will run into problems. We see it with Ben Simmons ( shooting issues) We see it with Fultz. And we even see it with his brother, as well as Elfrid Payton ( shooting issues) and Gary Payton II( shooting issues). ....

Even Jason Kidd had to develop a great 3 point shot in order to be a champion....

A lot people are still stuck in the early 2000. That shit is over. Luka, the rockets, jokic, etc have set the tone. You have to be able to do everything now, especially 3 and D

And there are big question marks regarding the top 3 draft prospects’ shooting ability.

Go back and look at that 2017 player prediction thread. Cats were hyping Fultz and Dennis Smith and other wack shooting players. But they dissed Tatum and Mitchell , and now they are big time mega stars already. Why? They can shoot the lights out.

That should be the question when dealing with players...all that ceiling and development shit is dead. Can he shoot and can he play defense ?

Cats coming out of college who can’t shoot ...that’s a longggggg ass project that may never come to fruition. That’s more than development. That’s teaching shooting mechanics that players should already have in college. Great to solid shooters are established very early.

>Go back and look at that 2017 player prediction thread. Cats
>were hyping Fultz and Dennis Smith and other wack shooting
>players. But they dissed Tatum and Mitchell , and now they
>are big time mega stars already. Why? They can shoot the
>lights out.

You can argue more attention should've been paid to Fultz's free throw shooting, and that's a totally valid argument... but he shot over 41% from 3 on over 7 attempts per game, which is definitely a significant sample size. He also shot 44% on mid-rangers, which is also respectable considering the sample size. I think Fultz just got fucked up by whatever that shoulder thing was. That, or he got insanely lucky for 30 games in college from everywhere but the free throw line. Or maybe it's somewhere between both of those takes. Who knows? It's just disappointing the kid who was so awesome in college never even got to sniff that in the pros.

Tatum and Mitchell tended to get overlooked because their end-of-season 3PT percentages that draft year weren't great, but both were hot shooters in the ACC. Mitchell's hot streak was a little more easily dismissed due to how terrible a shooter he was the other three-quarters of his Louisville career, which is valid... but, as with Fultz, people should've paid more attention to their FT shooting and used that as an indicator-- especially for Tatum, who shot like 85% from the stripe. That should've erased anyone's doubts.

I think most of the Dennis Smith cysage came from people who saw him play in HS before the injury and/or that one game where he lit up Duke from downtown. He was mostly a mediocre shooter in college.

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comparing him to Simmons and young Jkidd(shooting-wise) is comical, and I don't even know why you mentioned Gary Payton II


then you have the nerve to mention Luka who barely shot 30% from 3 this year? sometimes think before you type

Yes Lamelo is talented and more talented than his brother. I love the kid.

But ain’t shit a sure thing.

He shot 37% from the field! And 27 percent from 3. Plus he is terrible on defense.

You know, cool, he can’t shoot from distance. Maybe you work with that.
But when a motherfucker shoots 37 percent in a bum ass Aussie league where no defense is played, we got a problem. A major problem.

I mention those players because they are all around pgs who can’t shoot...which is why they are having issues in the league.

Name me a bum ass shooting college or high school player who turned into a mega star
and won rings. I’ll wait. Most can shoot at least 40 or 41 percent.

Not saying it wont happen....but it is very rare. So he has to learn how to shoot and play defense. He brings electrifying passing, dribbling and size. Those are his standout assets. Ben Simmons does all that shit too, but can’t shoot and the defense just backs away.

Telling you , with me , in this day and age, I only want to know three things. Can he shoot, D, and dribble? If not, peace out.

... but Melo’s shooting both in HS and overseas was absolutely low percentage (Lonzo’s numbers are UCLA were better than Melo’s have ever been, really), and his defense has consistently not been good. Even Melo’s FT percentages have been okay at best. The concerns about his shot and his D are real.

I think he makes up for it in several other ways, and I still think he should go second overall, but I don’t think those red flags can or should be easily dismissed.

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I love the kid. But he has a 2 hand push shot...2 hand push shot. It’s worse than his brother’s shot. Lonzo actually release’s the ball correctly from his hands. It’s just that his shot winds up, so that’s an arm/ elbow issue. Plus before the pandemic , lonzo shot 42 pct from 3, and the shot looked smooth. But he fell back into his old habits during the pandemic . So I think lonzo is going to be a great shooter when it’s all said and done.

Kids in elementary school do a 2 hand push shot because they are not strong enough to shoot with one arm.

It’s one thing to teach a player into being a better shooter, buts it’s another to teach a player HOW to shoot.

Defense can be taught. Players just have to be willing to apply themselves. So he will learn that.

Other than those two issues, he is magical. However I wouldn’t take him if I’m trying to win titles now. It would be best for him to go to a team that is in rebuilding mode. That way he will have all the time in the world to develop. He would be perfect for my bulls team, or Minnesota.

>Other than those two issues, he is magical. However I
>wouldn’t take him if I’m trying to win titles now. It
>would be best for him to go to a team that is in rebuilding
>mode. That way he will have all the time in the world to
>develop. He would be perfect for my bulls team, or Minnesota.

None of these kids are going to play a major role helping a team win a title “now”. They all will need to develop no matter where they end up, they are all far from finished products.

would go up. He was the man on the trash teams he was on before (with LaVar calling shots behind the scenes) and could take any shot he wanted and did.

Shot selection is not his issue. His shot is the issue.

He makes Shawn Marion look like Larry Bird.

I don’t make predictions on these types of players ...I didn’t predict his brother ..and I’m not predicting him.

Good luck.

>Shot selection is not his issue. His shot is the issue.
>
>He makes Shawn Marion look like Larry Bird.
>
>I don’t make predictions on these types of players ...I
>didn’t predict his brother ..and I’m not predicting him.

I don’t really make “predictions” on anybody I don’t really pay attention to college ball until the tournament these days and I normally don’t follow these guys around in high school unless they’re local. What little I know about LaMelo comes mostly from observing him initially around his older brother and watching him grow from a kid to a grown ass man. From what I’ve seen he looks like a better shooting version of Zo offensively. He appears to have similar size and athleticism to Zo and I think he was the same defensive potential. I think being around his older bro will prevent him from being “wowed” by anything at the pro level like a lot of young players are.

And that's not going to be an easy fix, even with better shot selection. It's a very real concern.

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.