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Subject: "NBA All Star selection gripes from players" Previous topic | Next topic
seasoned vet
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Thu Feb-13-20 12:17 AM

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"NBA All Star selection gripes from players"
Thu Feb-13-20 12:39 AM by seasoned vet

  

          

Every year these cats complain about being snubbed or looked over in All Star selection

In an effort to make the teams more i guess fair or balanced the NBA traded one popularity contest judged by fans, in for.....another popularity contest, but this time judged by peers

its why ive never understood how the number of NBA All Star selections by a player is used as some sort of metric of a players value, when its not based off of hard work

wouldnt it make more sense to take the top player from each conference in the top 3 categories of offense and defense...

*Offense*
Points
Assists
3 Points Made

*Defense*
Rebounds
Steals
Blocks

if a player in any conference tops more than one list, choose the next player down (Harden topped 2 lists)

then let the coaches and fans pick the rest of the roster

that way, if you didnt make the team, thats on you and how much you really wanted it.


here is what those teams would look like going into this all star weekend:

East
Giannis PF Points
Trae Young PG Assists
Andre Drummond C Rebound
Brook Lopez C Blocks
Davis Bertans SF 3 Point
Ben Simmons PG Steals

West
Harden SG Points
LeBron SF Assists
Gobert C Rebound
Whiteside C Blocks
Lillard PG 3 Point
Kawhi SF Steals

  

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Topic Outline
Subject Author Message Date ID
Shawn Bradley woulda been an all star lmao
Feb 13th 2020
1
Grand opening, grand closing
Feb 13th 2020
2
And davis bertans
Feb 13th 2020
3
lol...
Feb 13th 2020
4
did you even read what you typed...Bertans?
Feb 13th 2020
5
RE: NBA All Star selection gripes from players
Feb 13th 2020
6
*similar* ok, add PER to it. but still performance based...
Feb 13th 2020
9
      RE: *similar* ok, add PER to it. but still performance based...
Feb 13th 2020
10
           things are different know, in the old days if your team had a losing...
Feb 13th 2020
11
                RE: things are different know, in the old days if your team had a losing...
Feb 13th 2020
12
                I don't disagree, the flip side of that is you have a lot of guys...
Feb 13th 2020
14
                     RE: I don't disagree, the flip side of that is you have a lot of guys...
Feb 13th 2020
16
                I did some research and this isn't really true
Feb 15th 2020
24
RE: NBA All Star selection gripes from players
Feb 13th 2020
7
^^^John Hollinger ladies and gentlemen
Feb 13th 2020
8
zzzz. yeah, let's sterilize the fuck out of a fan oriented exhibition
Feb 13th 2020
13
the same exhibition thats been losing revenue for 10 years
Feb 13th 2020
15
      yeah, your boring ass idea isn't going to move the needle
Feb 13th 2020
18
           you’re genuinely a fucking idiot
Feb 13th 2020
19
           You genuinely have a bad idea, and are genuinely throwing a tantrum
Feb 13th 2020
21
           .
Feb 13th 2020
20
RE: NBA All Star selection gripes from players
Feb 13th 2020
17
It was -12 here this morning, the high is -7. They should enjoy a vacay
Feb 14th 2020
22
right my buddy is driving up there today I said "good luck!" I was...
Feb 14th 2020
23
RE: NBA All Star selection gripes from players
Feb 16th 2020
25

Ryan M
Member since Oct 21st 2002
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Thu Feb-13-20 03:31 AM

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1. "Shawn Bradley woulda been an all star lmao"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

------------------------------
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James. Davis. Kuzma. Howard. Rondo. Caldwell-Pope. Green. Cook. Bradley. McGee. Dudley. Caruso...

  

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Master Thespian
Member since Mar 25th 2003
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Thu Feb-13-20 05:14 AM

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2. "Grand opening, grand closing"
In response to Reply # 1


          

.

  

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Cenario
Member since Aug 24th 2005
56870 posts
Thu Feb-13-20 07:43 AM

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3. "And davis bertans"
In response to Reply # 1


  

          

-The Knicks’ coaching search still includes a lone frontrunner, Kurt Rambis, whose qualifications for the position include a strong relationship with Jackson and a willingness to take the job.

  

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CyrenYoung
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Thu Feb-13-20 08:50 AM

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4. "lol..."
In response to Reply # 0
Thu Feb-13-20 08:52 AM by CyrenYoung

  

          

..no.

Much ado about nothing.


*skatin' the rings of saturn*


..and miles to go before i sleep...

  

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PROMO
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Thu Feb-13-20 11:19 AM

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5. "did you even read what you typed...Bertans?"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

FOH.

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TWEET ME: @PROMO206

  

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allStah
Member since Jun 21st 2014
1221 posts
Thu Feb-13-20 11:43 AM

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6. "RE: NBA All Star selection gripes from players"
In response to Reply # 0


          

Those stats wouldn’t work, because it doesn’t account for mins played. So you could have a player, who doesn’t play a lot of mins, have high stats, and clearly isn’t an allStar.

The better stat would be PER. There is no stat greater to determine a great player.
Go off of PER, and it’s based on players who play at least 25-30 mins a game. A fair way of picking, because you’re picking players who are tops on both sides of the ball, and it cancels out players who have good PERs but play less the 25-30 mins a game.

The list will give you similar to the allStars you have now.

1-15 is Giannis to Jimmy Butler




  

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seasoned vet
Member since Jul 29th 2008
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Thu Feb-13-20 12:23 PM

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9. "*similar* ok, add PER to it. but still performance based..."
In response to Reply # 6
Thu Feb-13-20 12:25 PM by seasoned vet

  

          

that effectively cuts out the ‘i was snubbed’ talk

while still leaving room for the popularity contest (fans voting in players)
and the hard working grunts (coaches voting in players)

shit, thats still 6-8 more players per team

  

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allStah
Member since Jun 21st 2014
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Thu Feb-13-20 12:43 PM

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10. "RE: *similar* ok, add PER to it. but still performance based..."
In response to Reply # 9


          

Yeah a system like that could do the trick.

Per shut their mouths!

Oh you are scoring 25 a game? But you’re shooting 40 percent and putting up tons a shots a game, but here is another guy avg similar mins, scoring 19-20 points a game and Is more efficient.

Brandon Beal’s true shooting pct is .573. Trae’s is .600, and his per 24, beal’s is 22. So there can be no complaints( like there are) for Beal over young or why young is on the team.





  

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ThaTruth
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Thu Feb-13-20 01:00 PM

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11. "things are different know, in the old days if your team had a losing..."
In response to Reply # 10


  

          

record you didn't deserve to be an all-star. The fans wouldn't vote you in and the coaches definitely wouldn't put you in. Sometimes a vet who was usually an all-star but his team was having an off year would get in but generally a player on an losing team getting an all-star nod was extremely rare regardless of what their stats were. I'm too lazy to research the actual numbers but it almost never happened.

I just saw that Booker is replacing Dame.

  

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allStah
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Thu Feb-13-20 01:18 PM

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12. "RE: things are different know, in the old days if your team had a losing..."
In response to Reply # 11


          

This isn't the old days, and nothing stays the same, that is why it is called evolution.

And even that practice wasn't totally fair, because you can have players who have great numbers, but have great numbers because they are on championship teams playing with great players

Lets say you have 2 players, both scoring 22 points a game.

Player 1 is doing it on a winning team with other great players, so he is not seeing double teams and specialized defenses who focused on stopping him. Plus his efficiency is avg.

Player 2 is doing it on a losing team with avg to below avg players, while facing top defenses with quality efficiency.

Player 2 is more of the all star player based on numbers and circumstances.

Using a stat system in addition to voting would weed all that stuff out. It's like achieving the honor roll, it's not based on one academic subject, it's based on multiple subjects and the averages in those subjects.





  

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ThaTruth
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Thu Feb-13-20 02:38 PM

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14. "I don't disagree, the flip side of that is you have a lot of guys..."
In response to Reply # 12


  

          

make the All-Star team based of their teams success. Draymond Green is a prime example.

  

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allStah
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Thu Feb-13-20 03:06 PM

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16. "RE: I don't disagree, the flip side of that is you have a lot of guys..."
In response to Reply # 14


          

exactly.

and you no dray green is not an all star.

Dennis Rodman was proof of that. He only had 2 allstar appearances, and it was because he was on the pistons ( champions). Rodman destroyed the league in rebounding, and I consider him to be the greatest rebounder of all time.

But PER would have kept him out, because he does not contribute anywhere else.


  

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mrhood75
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Sat Feb-15-20 09:47 PM

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24. "I did some research and this isn't really true"
In response to Reply # 11


  

          

I picked a year in the early '80s (1983) at random and worked backwards a few year. This time period qualifies as "old," since it ranges from 37 to 40 years ago. And back then, there were players on not so good teams on there every season. Both voted in and on the bench.

So, let's start in the 1982-83 season, where the good players on bad teams came from the East. Isiah started his second year in the league, when the Pistons weren't so good; even at the time of the All-Star game they were under .500, and they'd finish 37-45. In fact, the Pistons had two All-Stars on that East team, since Laimbeer was on the bench. Plus, Reggie Theus was selected from a pretty bad Bulls team. The Bulls would finish the season that year with 28 wins. Booker's Suns are likely going to finish with more wins this season.

Then, the 1982. Isiah starts in his rookie year, when the Pistons are also a sub 0.500 team. And, again, another Pistons player is on the bench: This time its Kelly Tripucka. Artis Gilmore is a starter from a 38-54 Bulls team. And Michael Richardson from a bad Knicks team. It's not just the East this time either; Adrian Dantley is a starter from an awful Jazz team; Booker's Suns already a just a few wins shy from the Jazz's win total that season, and Trae Young's Hawks will probably catch them as well.

In 1981, Eddie Johnson starts from an awful Hawks team, with Mike Mitchell being selected from the Cavs, who finish the season with 28 wins. By the way, Mitchell replaced Dan Roundfield, who was also on that Hawks team. Dantley again starts out West for a equally bad 28 win Jazz squad, Paul Westphal starts and Jack Sikma is selected from a Seattle team that would finish with 34 wins

Finally, in 1980, Dantley in the West for an awful Jazz team. As does World B. Free for a not-so-hot Clippers team. And in the East, Richardson and Bill Carwright come off the bench from a bad Knicks team, as does Elvin Hayes from the Bullets.

Yes, this is a four-season window. But it's not like the league was wack during the time period. Magic, Kareem, Bird, Dr. J, Moses Malone, etc. were all in the midst of their careers. And players from pretty bad teams were regularly making the All-Star Game. Starting. And coming off the bench.

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allStah
Member since Jun 21st 2014
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Thu Feb-13-20 11:47 AM

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7. "RE: NBA All Star selection gripes from players"
In response to Reply # 0


          

Those stats wouldn’t work, because it doesn’t account for mins played. So you could have a player, who doesn’t play a lot of mins, have high stats, and clearly isn’t an allStar.

The better stat would be PER. There is no stat greater to determine a great player.
Go off of PER, and it’s based on players who play at least 25-30 mins a game. A fair way of picking, because you’re picking players who are tops on both sides of the ball, and it cancels out players who have good PERs but play less the 25-30 mins a game.

The list will give you similar to the allStars you have now.

1-15 is Giannis to Jimmy Butler

So after the fan votes, which is what the all star game is about , and fans should always be allowed to vote, the other selection should be a pool based on PER and coaches and writers.




  

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ThaTruth
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Thu Feb-13-20 11:53 AM

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8. "^^^John Hollinger ladies and gentlemen"
In response to Reply # 7


  

          

  

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Cold Truth
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Thu Feb-13-20 01:57 PM

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13. "zzzz. yeah, let's sterilize the fuck out of a fan oriented exhibition "
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

The NBA all star event is a fun exhibition for the fans.

There are always snubs, but most of the time, these rosters more or less look the way they should, based on the intent and format of the game.

  

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seasoned vet
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Thu Feb-13-20 02:42 PM

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15. "the same exhibition thats been losing revenue for 10 years"
In response to Reply # 13


  

          

...you know, the same exhibition the NBA has been desperately trying to fix because THEY SAID its not competitive anymore, that one?

or a different one?

jackass

the roster spots i proposed dont even make up half the team. you still have 6-8 more slots for the fans to have *fun* with

  

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Cold Truth
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Thu Feb-13-20 10:04 PM

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18. "yeah, your boring ass idea isn't going to move the needle"
In response to Reply # 15


  

          

>...you know, the same exhibition the NBA has been desperately
>trying to fix because THEY SAID its not competitive anymore,
>that one?
>
>or a different one?
>
>jackass

Lmao word?

You genuinely got mad. This is awesome.

>the roster spots i proposed dont even make up half the team.
>you still have 6-8 more slots for the fans to have *fun* with

Yeah...you're boring ass idea isn't the fix.

  

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seasoned vet
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Thu Feb-13-20 10:52 PM

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19. "you’re genuinely a fucking idiot "
In response to Reply # 18


  

          

even more awesome

  

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Cold Truth
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Thu Feb-13-20 11:25 PM

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21. "You genuinely have a bad idea, and are genuinely throwing a tantrum "
In response to Reply # 19


  

          

Cbut hey... this is your post. Carry on derailing it with your little meltdown 😂

  

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seasoned vet
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20. "."
In response to Reply # 18
Thu Feb-13-20 10:52 PM by seasoned vet

  

          

.

  

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allStah
Member since Jun 21st 2014
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Thu Feb-13-20 03:15 PM

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17. "RE: NBA All Star selection gripes from players"
In response to Reply # 0


          

And I think the NBA should create a rule where there is an automatic slot for the top player of a team in the city that is going to host the all star game.

The nba all star game is in chicago, and lavine isn't on it. That's a bad look. That player can be used as an official ambassador of the all star game.

Call it the ambassador's role

  

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auragin_boi
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Fri Feb-14-20 09:17 AM

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22. "It was -12 here this morning, the high is -7. They should enjoy a vacay"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

if they didn't get selected.

Most of them are ready for this Chicago Hawk hitting them in their nostrils...like seriously, the moisture inside of the nose begins to crystallize if you walk outside for more than 10 seconds.

Go somewhere warm and laugh at everyone who had to buy a winter coat for a weekend. lol

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ThaTruth
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Fri Feb-14-20 09:37 AM

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23. "right my buddy is driving up there today I said "good luck!" I was..."
In response to Reply # 22


  

          

watching TNT last night and wondering how many of them had coats lol...I'm sure EJ did, and Kenny's from NY so he was probably prepared, Shaq and Chuck probably had to go buy something and you know they are regular "off the rack" sized dudes lol

  

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jimaveli
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Sun Feb-16-20 09:07 AM

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25. "RE: NBA All Star selection gripes from players"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

>Every year these cats complain about being snubbed or looked
>over in All Star selection
>
>In an effort to make the teams more i guess fair or balanced
>the NBA traded one popularity contest judged by fans, in
>for.....another popularity contest, but this time judged by
>peers
>
>its why ive never understood how the number of NBA All Star
>selections by a player is used as some sort of metric of a
>players value, when its not based off of hard work
>
>wouldnt it make more sense to take the top player from each
>conference in the top 3 categories of offense and defense...
>
>*Offense*
>Points
>Assists
>3 Points Made
>
>*Defense*
>Rebounds
>Steals
>Blocks
>
>if a player in any conference tops more than one list, choose
>the next player down (Harden topped 2 lists)
>
>then let the coaches and fans pick the rest of the roster
>
>that way, if you didnt make the team, thats on you and how
>much you really wanted it.
>
>
>here is what those teams would look like going into this all
>star weekend:
>
>East
>Giannis PF Points
>Trae Young PG Assists
>Andre Drummond C Rebound
>Brook Lopez C Blocks
>Davis Bertans SF 3 Point
>Ben Simmons PG Steals
>
>West
>Harden SG Points
>LeBron SF Assists
>Gobert C Rebound
>Whiteside C Blocks
> Lillard PG 3 Point
> Kawhi SF Steals

I don’t like it. There’s already enough stat rigging play going on during the season..especially the early part. I’ve seen Harden and Westbrook for real quit shooting for multiple possession when they get to 9 assists early in a 4th quarter. It’s a joke. With something like this in place, it would just be some other stat to hustle.

It would be cool if whoever got ‘expert’ votes was actually a game-watching person. Instead, I expect that it’s still highlights, hearsay, and box score watching. It doesn’t matter if their metrics/KPIs/analytics instead of just looking for the highest numbers. That’s an issue. Add in the regional biases, fanboying, and other ‘impurities’ and it’s a wrap for ‘getting the right folks’ every single time.

So they end up trying to get it right for the most part knowing that someone somewhere is always gonna come swinging in from a rope somewhere claiming this or that guy shoulda got in. It’s still happening with the NCAA b-ball tourney and that 64 teams plus playin stuff.

  

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