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Subject: "We Need To Talk About Andrew Wiggins." Previous topic | Next topic
Frank Longo
Member since Nov 18th 2003
86617 posts
Thu Oct-24-19 12:56 PM

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"We Need To Talk About Andrew Wiggins."


  

          

Last night, Andrew Wiggins was a -26 in a one-point overtime game. Which... is borderline impossible for me to comprehend.

We're at the start of his sixth season. He's 24. And he's:

- never had a positive Box Plus Minus season
- never had a positive VORP season (!!!)
- been a net negative defender his entire career (despite being a top-tier NBA athlete!)
- had negative offensive Box Plus Minus the last two seasons and in three of his five seasons
- watched his total FG% and FT% slide in *each* of the past four seasons
- watched his FTAs dip drastically the last two years, and his free throw attempt per field goal attempt rate had slid each of the last four years-- meaning he's driving less and shooting *more* (which would explain why his FG% also keeps sliding)

Last year, he was spectacularly bad, putting up 18 points a game on 17 shots a game alongside a woeful 1.3:1 A:TO ratio. His BPM was a -2.9 for the year, making him one of six players this decade to play 2500+ minutes but net under a -2.5 in BPM. Those six players, for the record?

Collin Sexton, rookie season
Carmelo Anthony, OKC
Chris Kaman, LAC 2010
Andrew Wiggins last year
Andrew Wiggins the year before that
Andrew Wiggins the year before that

Anyone who dragged Melo for the OKC season? Wiggins has had the equivalent of that season *for three straight seasons now.* And he started this season with a -26... in a one-point OT game.

He's easily one of the worst #1 picks of the last 50 years. And a couple of the guys who busted harder than him at least had injuries as an excuse.

In a lot of ways, he's *worse* than a player like Anthony Bennett, because at least Bennett had the courtesy of being so fucking atrocious right away that the Cavs could ditch him and move on. Meanwhile, Minnesota is paying Wiggins 120 mil over the next four seasons, so he'll be the albatross around their neck, keeping them from achieving their potential for, by the time his tenure there is done, an entire decade.

-26 in a one-point OT game, lmao. unreal.

My movies: http://russellhainline.com
My movie reviews: https://letterboxd.com/RussellHFilm/
My beer TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@thebeertravelguide

  

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Topic Outline
Subject Author Message Date ID
wow, didn't know it was this bad
Oct 24th 2019
1
Is anyone *not* dragging him at this point?
Oct 24th 2019
2
i don’t think anyone is hyping him but they’re also not dragging him
Oct 24th 2019
5
he gets dragged everywhere I look
Oct 24th 2019
6
man, every time I hear his name...
Oct 24th 2019
7
He does... but it should be worse.
Oct 24th 2019
11
how is someone physically capable of playing nba basketball
Oct 24th 2019
3
One could argue he's, what, a Top 5 athlete in the league today?
Oct 24th 2019
12
Maybe I mean 5, 10, 25, whatever. That doesn't always mean much.
Oct 24th 2019
13
      Magette was still a contributor even past his athletic prime tho
Oct 24th 2019
14
he doesnt love the game. you can see it in his play
Oct 24th 2019
15
Oof.
Oct 24th 2019
4
RJ is what Wiggins should have been (c) you
Oct 24th 2019
8
I feel pretty safe with that at this juncture, lol.
Oct 24th 2019
10
RE: I feel pretty safe with that at this juncture, lol.
Oct 25th 2019
22
      The Knicks def scare the shit out of me.
Oct 25th 2019
24
           And I missed this RJ Barrett reference when I upped this yesterday.
Feb 15th 2022
39
after one game I'm ready to say it
Oct 25th 2019
17
RE: We Need To Talk About Andrew Wiggins.
Oct 24th 2019
9
Not surprised Sexton is on that list. Young Bullshit is what I call him.
Oct 25th 2019
16
he's Canadian.
Oct 25th 2019
18
(c) Anthony Bennett
Oct 25th 2019
19
outside of Nash have any of them lived up to the hype?
Oct 25th 2019
21
      They hype of Steve Nash?
Oct 25th 2019
23
      Jamal Murray's good.
Oct 25th 2019
25
speaking of...why isn't the Canadian National Team good?
Nov 14th 2019
31
Should Cleveland trade Wiggins for Love?
Oct 25th 2019
20
Ummm. Dude been balling lately.
Nov 12th 2019
26
If he keeps it up, this post gets credit. NOPE! It does.
Nov 12th 2019
27
33, 6, 5 vs Detroit
Nov 13th 2019
28
Karl got UFCed and Wiggs starting ballin
Nov 13th 2019
29
whew... this Thank God It Snow'd ass thread
Nov 14th 2019
30
well, he'll always have November 2019!
Jan 15th 2020
32
still applaud OE’s penny stock pickup though
Jan 15th 2020
33
      hope he sold after Thanksgiving, otherwise he's down a penny!
Jan 15th 2020
34
Since he's now a starter for the All Star Game this year
Feb 14th 2022
35
The move to Golden State completely changed his career.
Feb 14th 2022
36
      So basically: give young players time to develop...
Feb 14th 2022
37
      The Ringer actually investigated "worst All-Star" a few weeks back
Feb 14th 2022
38
           I think that article does a good job at pointing out re: starters...
Feb 15th 2022
40
           *scans list for Jamaal Magloire* article is bogus lol...
Mar 01st 2022
43
Wiggins' numbers in February: 14/3/2, shooting 42% from the field.
Mar 01st 2022
41
Boffem
Mar 01st 2022
42
You fighting like hell to avoid that L
Mar 01st 2022
44
This whole post was because I was so high on him out of college.
Mar 02nd 2022
45
Both.
Mar 07th 2022
46
when was the last time Draymond played?
Mar 07th 2022
47
**clears throat**
May 23rd 2022
48
L-mao
May 23rd 2022
49
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M3OaeuQaIFM
May 23rd 2022
50
**clears throat again**
Jun 13th 2022
51
man
Jun 14th 2022
52
Hard not to feel good for the guy.
Jun 14th 2022
53
      Looking forward to this years Justivity post
Jun 14th 2022
54
      Might drop it post-draft, honestly.
Jun 14th 2022
57
      For someone that was a first overall pick
Jun 14th 2022
55
           Oh, I was invested because I thought he was dope, lol.
Jun 14th 2022
56
andrew 'by any means' wiggins.
Jun 14th 2022
58
RE: andrew 'max contract' wiggins.
Jun 14th 2022
59
My favorite redemption story of the year.
Jun 17th 2022
60
Insightful analysis.
Jun 17th 2022
62
We Need To Talk About Jayson Tatum.
Jun 17th 2022
61

pretentious username
Member since Jun 18th 2010
12485 posts
Thu Oct-24-19 01:19 PM

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1. "wow, didn't know it was this bad"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

>We're at the start of his sixth season.

I was thinking the other day about how he's sneakily been in the league for a while and yet I rarely hear about him except when he's meekly defending himself as a top 100 player.


Meanwhile, Minnesota is paying Wiggins 120 mil over
>the next four seasons, so he'll be the albatross around their
>neck, keeping them from achieving their potential for, by the
>time his tenure there is done, an entire decade.

WOOF!

  

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ConcreteCharlie
Member since Nov 21st 2002
71387 posts
Thu Oct-24-19 02:53 PM

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2. "Is anyone *not* dragging him at this point?"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

Remember when the Love trade wasn't worth it? Me either.

Remember when Wiggins was the best prospect on Kansas? LMAO.

Anybody who still hypes him like a star or a future star does not watch Minnesota Timberwolves basketball, ever.

And you will know MY JACKET IS GOLD when I lay my vengeance upon thee.

  

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pretentious username
Member since Jun 18th 2010
12485 posts
Thu Oct-24-19 03:51 PM

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5. "i don’t think anyone is hyping him but they’re also not dragging him"
In response to Reply # 2


  

          

He’s a quiet dude in a smaller market so he’s gone under the radar. And honestly I think part of it is he still looks 18 so he’s sorta had a “developing talent” pass.

  

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Rjcc
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Thu Oct-24-19 03:57 PM

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6. "he gets dragged everywhere I look"
In response to Reply # 5


          

idk where you get your nba news but man it has been discussed


www.engadgethd.com - the other stuff i'm looking at

  

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Dstl1
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Thu Oct-24-19 04:21 PM

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7. "man, every time I hear his name..."
In response to Reply # 5


          

it's being dragged...for like the last 2 seasons.

...I'm from the era when A.I. was the answer, now they think ai is the answer - Marlon Craft

  

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Frank Longo
Member since Nov 18th 2003
86617 posts
Thu Oct-24-19 08:35 PM

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11. "He does... but it should be worse. "
In response to Reply # 2


  

          

Usually the Wiggins dragging tends to be your garden variety "inefficient" "not playing well" "doesn't pass" "doesn't try hard" stuff... when really, the predominant phrases should be things like "one of the worst top picks ever" "one of the worst high minute players of the last decade" "franchise ruiner" and things of that sort.

Here's a question: would you rather have, right today, going into their respective sixth seasons, Andrew Wiggins or Andrea Bargnani? Wiggins has a lead in counting stats, but Bargnani in Toronto had better BPM , better VORP, better WS/48, better 3P%, better FT%, better rebound rate, etc.

Like, I know Wiggins gets dragged... but I don't think he's dragged hard enough. lol.

My movies: http://russellhainline.com
My movie reviews: https://letterboxd.com/RussellHFilm/
My beer TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@thebeertravelguide

  

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Rjcc
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Thu Oct-24-19 03:16 PM

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3. "how is someone physically capable of playing nba basketball"
In response to Reply # 0


          

so bad at it?

www.engadgethd.com - the other stuff i'm looking at

  

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Frank Longo
Member since Nov 18th 2003
86617 posts
Thu Oct-24-19 08:38 PM

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12. "One could argue he's, what, a Top 5 athlete in the league today?"
In response to Reply # 3


  

          

He just doesn't give a shit about anything other than counting stats. It's incredible.

My movies: http://russellhainline.com
My movie reviews: https://letterboxd.com/RussellHFilm/
My beer TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@thebeertravelguide

  

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ConcreteCharlie
Member since Nov 21st 2002
71387 posts
Thu Oct-24-19 09:10 PM

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13. "Maybe I mean 5, 10, 25, whatever. That doesn't always mean much."
In response to Reply # 12


  

          

Plenty of guys are insanely athletic but don't really put it together. Corey Maggette could jump out of the building and had a body like an all-pro outside linebacker. He's been retired for less than 10 years and people have already forgotten his career completely.

And you will know MY JACKET IS GOLD when I lay my vengeance upon thee.

  

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Rjcc
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Thu Oct-24-19 09:29 PM

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14. "Magette was still a contributor even past his athletic prime tho"
In response to Reply # 13


          

and he had his periods where he wasn't good either, but he could at least contribute...something.

like I know logically the game is so much mental rather than physical, but shit man. wiggins has everything you need and can't do shit with it

www.engadgethd.com - the other stuff i'm looking at

  

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BrooklynWHAT
Member since Jun 15th 2007
84986 posts
Thu Oct-24-19 09:49 PM

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15. "he doesnt love the game. you can see it in his play"
In response to Reply # 3


  

          

<--- Big Baller World Order

  

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Deebot
Member since Oct 21st 2004
26762 posts
Thu Oct-24-19 03:45 PM

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4. "Oof."
In response to Reply # 0


          

  

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bshelly
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Thu Oct-24-19 07:04 PM

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8. "RJ is what Wiggins should have been (c) you"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

Just want it on record that you put RJ in a Wiggins comparison. It’ll be relevant forever.

----
bshelly

"You (Fisher) could get fired, Les Snead could get fired, Kevin Demoff could get fired, but I will always be Eric Dickerson.” (c) The God

  

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Frank Longo
Member since Nov 18th 2003
86617 posts
Thu Oct-24-19 08:12 PM

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10. "I feel pretty safe with that at this juncture, lol."
In response to Reply # 8


  

          

RJ just has to top "not historically bad" to win that agenda.

My movies: http://russellhainline.com
My movie reviews: https://letterboxd.com/RussellHFilm/
My beer TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@thebeertravelguide

  

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Numba_33
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Fri Oct-25-19 03:55 PM

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22. "RE: I feel pretty safe with that at this juncture, lol."
In response to Reply # 10


  

          

>RJ just has to top "not historically bad" to win that agenda.
>


Reading in between the lines, it appears you have some degree of confidence in the Knicks not Knicks-ing this kid up.

I will say that I am surprised at how good he looked against the Spurs on the offensive end given that his jumpshot is very suspect. Will be interesting to see how he meshes with the Knicks given that it appears Fizdale is trying to figure out the roster on the go.

"Sean sparks like John Starks, nah, Sean ball like John Wall" - Rest In Power Forever Sean Price.

  

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Frank Longo
Member since Nov 18th 2003
86617 posts
Fri Oct-25-19 09:40 PM

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24. "The Knicks def scare the shit out of me."
In response to Reply # 22


  

          

Especially because they’ll tank this year so they’ll let him gun with reckless abandon.

But it’d be hard for him to be Wiggins bad.

My movies: http://russellhainline.com
My movie reviews: https://letterboxd.com/RussellHFilm/
My beer TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@thebeertravelguide

  

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Numba_33
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Tue Feb-15-22 11:04 AM

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39. "And I missed this RJ Barrett reference when I upped this yesterday."
In response to Reply # 24


  

          

Unfortunate that instead of getting Knicks-ed, RJ got Thibbs-ed in the sense the kid got injured playing in the last minutes of that blowout loss against the Nuggets and he's been out the last three games.

Even worse since he finally (I wish these boards allowed me to bold words) started to turn things around in 2022 and actually started to show some promise of being the third pick. Hopefully he'll keep up the offensive aggression and confidence assuming he'll be back after the All Star break.

"Sean sparks like John Starks, nah, Sean ball like John Wall" - Rest In Power Forever Sean Price.

  

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Dr Claw
Member since Jun 25th 2003
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Fri Oct-25-19 07:31 AM

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17. "after one game I'm ready to say it"
In response to Reply # 8


  

          

  

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allStah
Member since Jun 21st 2014
9816 posts
Thu Oct-24-19 07:04 PM

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9. "RE: We Need To Talk About Andrew Wiggins."
In response to Reply # 0


          

Good lord . I remember Kamen with the Mavericks! Yuck
No rebounding or blocks nothing

If he didn’t score, he added nothing

Sexton is the same way
So was Carmelo
And Wiggins

Just want to score and do nothing else

If Wiggins isn’t scoring, he is snoring.

  

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Beezo
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Fri Oct-25-19 05:48 AM

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16. "Not surprised Sexton is on that list. Young Bullshit is what I call him."
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

Wiggins.. I can’t defend him anymore.

<---
Fuck a sig, my presence is enough.

  

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ThaTruth
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Fri Oct-25-19 08:38 AM

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18. "he's Canadian."
In response to Reply # 0


          

  

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LAbeathustla
Member since Jan 24th 2004
33858 posts
Fri Oct-25-19 09:03 AM

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19. "(c) Anthony Bennett"
In response to Reply # 18


  

          

------------------------------------
2019 CABG Survivor

2016 OK Survivor Champion

be about it or be without it

RIP GOATs

  

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ThaTruth
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Fri Oct-25-19 03:04 PM

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21. "outside of Nash have any of them lived up to the hype?"
In response to Reply # 19


          

  

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TheRealBillyOcean
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Fri Oct-25-19 04:06 PM

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23. "They hype of Steve Nash?"
In response to Reply # 21


          

<---https://www.amazon.com/dp/B01DL9AVTQ

  

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Rjcc
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Fri Oct-25-19 09:52 PM

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25. "Jamal Murray's good."
In response to Reply # 21


          


www.engadgethd.com - the other stuff i'm looking at

  

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PROMO
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Thu Nov-14-19 11:03 AM

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31. "speaking of...why isn't the Canadian National Team good?"
In response to Reply # 18


  

          

I mean, there's a lot of Canadians in the league now and many of them good to very good. Are pros not allowed in Canada? and if not, why?

  

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Oak27
Member since Apr 17th 2005
13176 posts
Fri Oct-25-19 01:52 PM

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20. "Should Cleveland trade Wiggins for Love?"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

https://board.okayplayer.com/okp.php?az=show_topic&forum=21&topic_id=102658

  

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Orbit_Established
Member since Oct 27th 2002
52934 posts
Tue Nov-12-19 07:32 AM

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26. "Ummm. Dude been balling lately. "
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

  

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Frank Longo
Member since Nov 18th 2003
86617 posts
Tue Nov-12-19 10:12 AM

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27. "If he keeps it up, this post gets credit. NOPE! It does."
In response to Reply # 26
Tue Nov-12-19 10:14 AM by Frank Longo

  

          

He’s making his 2s at a much higher rate, largely due to increased efficiency on his mid-range shots. So that’s likely to regress.

BUT he’s doing career best numbers in AST% and TO%, and that certainly should give Minnesota fans some sparks of optimism. Those are definitely the numbers he needs to maintain to remain a net positive player for the first time in his career.

My movies: http://russellhainline.com
My movie reviews: https://letterboxd.com/RussellHFilm/
My beer TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@thebeertravelguide

  

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agentzero
Member since Apr 12th 2007
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Wed Nov-13-19 03:29 PM

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28. "33, 6, 5 vs Detroit"
In response to Reply # 26
Wed Nov-13-19 03:29 PM by agentzero

  

          

dude has been on a tear lately
something told me to pick him in fantasy bball this year and i am glad i did

To people like US, a record is a piece of history. A moment in time.
Most people don't get it.

  

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Beezo
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Wed Nov-13-19 04:26 PM

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29. "Karl got UFCed and Wiggs starting ballin"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

<---
Fuck a sig, my presence is enough.

  

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HecticHavoc
Member since May 13th 2005
7591 posts
Thu Nov-14-19 10:36 AM

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30. "whew... this Thank God It Snow'd ass thread"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

-----------------------------------------

  

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Frank Longo
Member since Nov 18th 2003
86617 posts
Wed Jan-15-20 08:44 PM

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32. "well, he'll always have November 2019!"
In response to Reply # 0
Wed Jan-15-20 08:44 PM by Frank Longo

  

          

the month that was!

lmao

My movies: http://russellhainline.com
My movie reviews: https://letterboxd.com/RussellHFilm/
My beer TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@thebeertravelguide

  

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bshelly
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Wed Jan-15-20 09:00 PM

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33. "still applaud OE’s penny stock pickup though"
In response to Reply # 32


  

          

----
bshelly

"You (Fisher) could get fired, Les Snead could get fired, Kevin Demoff could get fired, but I will always be Eric Dickerson.” (c) The God

  

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Frank Longo
Member since Nov 18th 2003
86617 posts
Wed Jan-15-20 09:01 PM

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34. "hope he sold after Thanksgiving, otherwise he's down a penny!"
In response to Reply # 33


  

          

My movies: http://russellhainline.com
My movie reviews: https://letterboxd.com/RussellHFilm/
My beer TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@thebeertravelguide

  

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Numba_33
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Mon Feb-14-22 11:53 AM

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35. "Since he's now a starter for the All Star Game this year"
In response to Reply # 0
Mon Feb-14-22 11:53 AM by Numba_33

  

          

Let's kick this post up to the first page.

For the record, I'm not an Andrew Wiggins fan, nor am I a Golden State Warriors fan, but I am bored at work and I'm interested to see folks talk about the dude since it appears he's going much better this season.

Discuss.

"Sean sparks like John Starks, nah, Sean ball like John Wall" - Rest In Power Forever Sean Price.

  

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Frank Longo
Member since Nov 18th 2003
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36. "The move to Golden State completely changed his career."
In response to Reply # 35
Mon Feb-14-22 12:39 PM by Frank Longo

  

          

Every once in a while, in Minnesota, he'd shoot the ball well for, like, three weeks, and people would be like "Wiggins has arrived!" And then he'd smash back down to Earth, lol.

I'd even argue for much of his first season in Golden State, even though it was *easily* his best season to date, it wasn't quite "here's a guy that can help a team win" level basketball. But he was taking advantage of open shots more and defending better in spots on the ball.

Now, this year, he's a genuine analytically plus player for the first time in his career. He's shooting beautifully. He's defending consistently. He's become some version of the guy people thought he could be out of college (I was very, very high on him out of Kansas, which was probably part of why I felt compelled to talk about how bad he'd been, lol).

I think it's pretty obvious he shouldn't have been an All-Star starter, that goes without saying-- it'd be interesting to look back through time to try to find a *worse* All-Star starter-- but it's such a feel good story that it's genuinely impossible to be mad about it. Very, very few players that far down the path of Famously Overpayed Bustdom actually figure it out and become truly good NBA players. Even if he hadn't been named a starter, if he'd been a bench selection or injury replacement, the reaction would still be "goddamn, good for him." Dude's figured it out.

My movies: http://russellhainline.com
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CyrenYoung
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Mon Feb-14-22 01:46 PM

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37. "So basically: give young players time to develop..."
In response to Reply # 36


  

          

..He arrived at GSW with no pressure.

They had shooting, defense, great chemistry, and a culture of winning already established. What he needed was solid coaching and time to flourish without the pressure of exceeding the expectations of a #1 draft pick.

I'm happy that young man found his footing and place among a team that actually appreciates his game.


*skatin' the rings of saturn*


..and miles to go before i sleep...

  

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Nodima
Member since Jul 30th 2008
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Mon Feb-14-22 01:56 PM

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38. "The Ringer actually investigated "worst All-Star" a few weeks back"
In response to Reply # 36
Mon Feb-14-22 02:11 PM by Nodima

  

          

It was a fun read, though because the list is number-driven most of the characters on it are genuine superstars far past their prime like Shaq and Dirk. They also pointed out that, as of the writing of the article, Wiggins was (by WS/WAR standards) having a marginally better season than Mitchell, Booker, Doncic and LaVine anyway.


https://www.theringer.com/nba/2022/2/1/22911673/nba-all-star-game-kobe-bryant-dirk-nowitzki


Like I said I thought it was a fun read so I'll leave the context out (the method is a simple sum of Win Shares and WAR, though they go on to explain how most of these seasons are injury-riddled or worse), but I'm bored so I'll also type up the list for anyone who just wants to remember some guys:


20. Shaq, 06-07
19. Danny Manning, 93-94
18. Michael Jordan, 85-86
17. Ralph Sampson, 86-87
16. D-Wade, 18-19
15. Kareem, 88-89
14. Joe Dumars, 94-95
13. Anfernee Hardaway, 97-98
12. Alonzo Mourning, 00-01
11. Steve Johnson, 87-88 (if you were expecting any WHO?! picks, it's this one)
10. Iverson, 09-10
09. Grant Hill, 00-01
08. Kobe, 14-15
07. Yao Ming, 10-11
06. Chris Kaman, 09-10
05. Magic, 91-92
04. Kobe, 13-14
03. Pistol Pete, 78-79
02. Dirk, 18-19
01. Kobe, 15-16

-----------------

Granted, I know this isn't REALLY the answer to that question since all but two, maybe three or four of the people on this list were clearly All-Star caliber players for multiple years and we all want to know if another player in their prime was as merely Very Good as Wiggins is this year, but it's still a fun list to spend some time with IMO.

~~~~~~~~~
"This is the streets, and I am the trap." � Jay Bilas
http://www.popmatters.com/pm/archive/contributor/517
Hip Hop Handbook: http://tinyurl.com/ll4kzz

  

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Frank Longo
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40. "I think that article does a good job at pointing out re: starters..."
In response to Reply # 38


  

          

... that the bad starters are basically always super-well-liked All-Star game staples. That's what made the Wiggins pick so baffling. I think him as a reserve makes total sense. But as a starter?

I do think the methodology in this article is flawed, considering they admit those metrics reflect the full season and not just the pre-All-Star numbers. I also think it's interesting they chose total win shares rather than win shares per 48, as total win shares is definitely going to skew toward players who played more minutes due to injury or role or whatever (unsurprisingly, Luka and Jrue, both of whom had missed time, have both passed Wiggins in total win shares in the two weeks since this article dropped). If they'd used win shares per 48, I'd have to think Wiggins would be bottom 3 of all the guys in this All-Star class-- and he'd be insanely low in the pantheon of starters.

And while WAR is generally a good stat (Wiggins ranks 39th in that metric this year), I'm surprised if they were already going to 538 that they wouldn't use RAPTOR, which is easily the more well-respected catch-all metric for player quality on that site. (Wiggins ranks 67th in RAPTOR.)

So it seems like they set out to make an article that "proved" specifically that Wiggins isn't that bad an All-Star. Which is fine, but is less interesting to me than something more comprehensive. I'd still be way more interested in just looking at the starters over time-- it's not a surprise that Kobe had most of the worst ASG starter seasons, especially when he was voted as a starter while injured before they changed those rules. And I'd obviously be interested in a wider variety of metric measurements.

My movies: http://russellhainline.com
My movie reviews: https://letterboxd.com/RussellHFilm/
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ThaTruth
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43. "*scans list for Jamaal Magloire* article is bogus lol..."
In response to Reply # 38


          

https://newarena.com/nba/the-19-worst-all-stars-in-nba-history/

________________________________________
"Take the surprise out your voice Shaq."-The REAL CP3
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v2H5K-BUMS0

  

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Frank Longo
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41. "Wiggins' numbers in February: 14/3/2, shooting 42% from the field."
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

And his analytical numbers are negative for the month as well.

Wonder what's brought him back to Earth: not knowing how to play with Klay, or not being able to play alongside Draymond. Or both.

Definitely a development to keep an eye on heading toward the playoffs.

My movies: http://russellhainline.com
My movie reviews: https://letterboxd.com/RussellHFilm/
My beer TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@thebeertravelguide

  

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Beezo
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42. "Boffem"
In response to Reply # 41


  

          


>Wonder what's brought him back to Earth: not knowing how to
>play with Klay, or not being able to play alongside Draymond.
>Or both.
>
>Definitely a development to keep an eye on heading toward the
>playoffs.

<---
Fuck a sig, my presence is enough.

  

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allStah
Member since Jun 21st 2014
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Tue Mar-01-22 07:05 PM

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44. "You fighting like hell to avoid that L"
In response to Reply # 41


          

I love you man .

ALL HAIL THE KING of LOSING: LEBRON
Bulls | Bears | White Sox | Yankees | Notre Dame | Illinois | Chelsea | Real Madrid

  

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Frank Longo
Member since Nov 18th 2003
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45. "This whole post was because I was so high on him out of college. "
In response to Reply # 44


  

          

This was my "accepting an L" post, lol, because I thought he'd be an All-Star, All-Defense, the whole nine. Then he was terrible on defense at Minnesota, wildly inefficient on offense. Got a deal that seemed borderline untradeable. I felt like I'd seen enough-- didn't think the guy I thought he'd be would ever come to pass.

Somehow got to the best player-development team in the NBA. Turned his career entirely around. Now a good defender, now a more consistent offensive threat. Was a borderline All-Star player that got to be a starter due to people loving his narrative (and due to K-Pop endorsement, lol). Will almost certainly make an All-Defense team. 2014 Me would be dancing in the aisles that the stuff I said in the Justivity post about Wiggins came to pass, lol.

But I'm still scratching my head over what I should expect from him. He's obviously not the bust he was shaping up to be in Minnesota. But I still don't really see any indication that he's the sort of consistently elite NBA wing I expected him to be in 2014. Like almost all projections of "he's gonna be a major star" or "he's gonna be an epic bust," the answer's usually somewhere in the middle.

Like I mentioned above, he deserves all the credit in the world to come back and be a strong role player on a good team. Most guys who get the "high-volume inefficient guy, not worth the contract, etc" label just end up being that forever, and he's adjusted his game nicely. Even if he just settles in as a 16ish/5ish/38% from 3ish good 3-and-D guy who assists GSW's stars, that's still a hell of a lot better than he was before.

... but yeah, I'm sure I'll continue to track his career and wonder who he is. I've never had a player before where I was on such polar opposite ends over a five-year span of thinking I knew who he'd be.

My movies: http://russellhainline.com
My movie reviews: https://letterboxd.com/RussellHFilm/
My beer TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@thebeertravelguide

  

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Dr Claw
Member since Jun 25th 2003
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46. "Both."
In response to Reply # 41


  

          

>Wonder what's brought him back to Earth: not knowing how to
>play with Klay, or not being able to play alongside Draymond.
>Or both.
>
>Definitely a development to keep an eye on heading toward the
>playoffs.

Yes, I'm mad. Let's move on.

Jays | Cavs | Eagles | Sabres | Tarheels

PSN: Dr_Claw_77 | XBL: Dr Claw 077 | FB: drclaw077 | T: @drclaw77 | http://thepeoplesvault.wordpress.com

  

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ThaTruth
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47. "when was the last time Draymond played?"
In response to Reply # 41


          

________________________________________
"Take the surprise out your voice Shaq."-The REAL CP3
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v2H5K-BUMS0

  

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Numba_33
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48. "**clears throat**"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

"Sean sparks like John Starks, nah, Sean ball like John Wall" - Rest In Power Forever Sean Price.

  

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Sofian_Hadi
Member since Jan 03rd 2003
5621 posts
Mon May-23-22 12:41 PM

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49. "L-mao"
In response to Reply # 48


          

---------------------------------------

"The world is before you and you need not take it or leave it as it was when you came in." - James Baldwin

  

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LegacyNS
Member since Jan 16th 2004
38095 posts
Mon May-23-22 02:52 PM

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50. "https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M3OaeuQaIFM"
In response to Reply # 48


  

          

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M3OaeuQaIFM
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
<---- 5....
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dlgiritpmfo

=======================================

  

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Numba_33
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Mon Jun-13-22 10:18 PM

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51. "**clears throat again**"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

"Sean sparks like John Starks, nah, Sean ball like John Wall" - Rest In Power Forever Sean Price.

  

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falafel stand pimpin
Member since Dec 26th 2006
4380 posts
Tue Jun-14-22 12:05 AM

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52. "man"
In response to Reply # 51


          

  

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Frank Longo
Member since Nov 18th 2003
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Tue Jun-14-22 12:47 AM

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53. "Hard not to feel good for the guy."
In response to Reply # 51
Tue Jun-14-22 01:08 AM by Frank Longo

  

          

Like I said above, I was so all in on Wiggins out of college. That’s why I made this post in the first place when he was playing so inefficiently— I was confident I was taking an L on my original highness on him.

In fact, here’s my Justivity post from 2014, lol:

“Top tier 2 guard. All-Star. Possible All-Defense team guy.

It all depends on his drive, but dude has the skills to be a monster. I'm high on Embiid's potential, but any team that passes on this guy will regret it.

It may take him a couple of years to reach maximum offense potential, but his perimeter defense could help any team immediately, and he's deadly in the open court. If your team wants to run, he would be beastly.”

And now he’s made it to a program with real culture of winning, and here he is, on the biggest stage, living up to the potential he showed in 2013/14 when he was drafted first overall.

It’s always nice seeing a guy who was absolutely not good when I made this post play like the guy he was supposed to be when the spotlight is on. Feel good story.

And of course it’s just my luck that after I make a post angry that I took an L on Wiggins, he’s traded to the best player development organization in the NBA, and now this becomes the L on Wiggins. Guess the lesson here is to never give up until a player retires, lol. Who knows, maybe the Warriors can sign Ben McLemore and turn that agenda into a W for me.

My movies: http://russellhainline.com
My movie reviews: https://letterboxd.com/RussellHFilm/
My beer TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@thebeertravelguide

  

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guru0509
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54. "Looking forward to this years Justivity post "
In response to Reply # 53


  

          

only bc it’s the first time we have multiple first rounders in 15 years lol


>Like I said above, I was so all in on Wiggins out of college.
>That’s why I made this post in the first place when he was
>playing so inefficiently— I was confident I was taking an L
>on my original highness on him.
>
>In fact, here’s my Justivity post from 2014, lol:
>
>“Top tier 2 guard. All-Star. Possible All-Defense team guy.
>
>It all depends on his drive, but dude has the skills to be a
>monster. I'm high on Embiid's potential, but any team that
>passes on this guy will regret it.
>
>It may take him a couple of years to reach maximum offense
>potential, but his perimeter defense could help any team
>immediately, and he's deadly in the open court. If your team
>wants to run, he would be beastly.”
>
>And now he’s made it to a program with real culture of
>winning, and here he is, on the biggest stage, living up to
>the potential he showed in 2013/14 when he was drafted first
>overall.
>
>It’s always nice seeing a guy who was absolutely not good
>when I made this post play like the guy he was supposed to be
>when the spotlight is on. Feel good story.
>
>And of course it’s just my luck that after I make a post
>angry that I took an L on Wiggins, he’s traded to the best
>player development organization in the NBA, and now this
>becomes the L on Wiggins. Guess the lesson here is to never
>give up until a player retires, lol. Who knows, maybe the
>Warriors can sign Ben McLemore and turn that agenda into a W
>for me.

-------------------
I wanna go to where the martyrs went
the brown figures on the walls of my apart-a-ment...

  

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Frank Longo
Member since Nov 18th 2003
86617 posts
Tue Jun-14-22 09:42 AM

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57. "Might drop it post-draft, honestly."
In response to Reply # 54


  

          

If only because (a) I’m busy as shit til the draft and (b) where a guy ends up matters so, so much in early development. Might make it easier to be right if I know where a guy is headed, lol.

Nah, I’ll still try for early next week. We’ll see.

My movies: http://russellhainline.com
My movie reviews: https://letterboxd.com/RussellHFilm/
My beer TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@thebeertravelguide

  

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Numba_33
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Tue Jun-14-22 08:53 AM

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55. "For someone that was a first overall pick"
In response to Reply # 53


  

          

he more than deserved some scrutiny. I still found your initial post a bit odd, but I think that's mostly because I didn't care too deeply about Andrew Wiggins, while it appears you had deep interest in him from the jump. I guess on some level that makes sense, but it seemed odd that early on you found joy in dumping on the dude. It appears he's not someone that is a franchise superstar dude that most first overall picks should be, but it is cool to see him rebound after all those disastrous years in Minnesota. It would have been much easier for Wiggins to pack it all in and be content with being a bust, especially with all the money he signed for before he got traded to the Warriors.

Outside of the fact he was playing so well defensively last night, it was so wild how effortless he looked scoring from almost literally all areas on the offensive end last night. He was knocking down threes, hit some mid-range shots, and also drove to the hole with aggression on more than one occasion. And that's on top of him rebounding so effectively.

Have to wonder if Golden State will hold onto him or if they'll look to prioritize grooming their younger players while obviously holding onto Curry, Klay, and Draymond. He could easily command top dollar if he chooses to leave Golden State, assuming of course he gets his ring this year.

"Sean sparks like John Starks, nah, Sean ball like John Wall" - Rest In Power Forever Sean Price.

  

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Frank Longo
Member since Nov 18th 2003
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Tue Jun-14-22 09:41 AM

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56. "Oh, I was invested because I thought he was dope, lol."
In response to Reply # 55


  

          

>he more than deserved some scrutiny. I still found your
>initial post a bit odd, but I think that's mostly because I
>didn't care too deeply about Andrew Wiggins, while it appears
>you had deep interest in him from the jump. I guess on some
>level that makes sense, but it seemed odd that early on you
>found joy in dumping on the dude.

My Duke friends did not like that I wanted him above Jabari in 2014, my fellow Kyrie fans didn’t like that I honestly wanted Cleveland to keep Wiggins over Love, lol. I believed in him that much.

And then he was truly bad for five years. And I had to watch Embiid and others blossom into stars, while I had to just sit on the fact that I thought dude was the next coming.

So yeah, my last paragraph in the original post is me venting frustrations, for sure, lol.

My movies: http://russellhainline.com
My movie reviews: https://letterboxd.com/RussellHFilm/
My beer TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@thebeertravelguide

  

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Reeq
Member since Mar 11th 2013
16347 posts
Tue Jun-14-22 10:59 AM

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58. "andrew 'by any means' wiggins."
In response to Reply # 0


          

you need buckets?

he got you.

you need boards?

he got you.

you need to lock down a 1st team all nba wing player?

HE GOT YOU.

  

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guru0509
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Tue Jun-14-22 11:56 AM

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59. "RE: andrew 'max contract' wiggins."
In response to Reply # 58


  

          

>you need buckets?
>
>he got you.
>
>you need boards?
>
>he got you.
>
>you need to lock down a 1st team all nba wing player?
>
>HE GOT YOU.


He’s definitely gonna get 5 - 200 million from someone

-------------------
I wanna go to where the martyrs went
the brown figures on the walls of my apart-a-ment...

  

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Vex_id
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Fri Jun-17-22 12:17 PM

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60. "My favorite redemption story of the year."
In response to Reply # 0


          

I remember at the onset of the season (when he initially refused to get the vaccine) people wanted him out of GS...

...all the way to out-playing Tatum in the Finals! It wasn't Draymond or Klay who was the 2nd best player on the Warriors in the Finals - it was Wiggins.

Truth be told? I don't think GSW wins this title without Andrew Wiggins performing like he did.

-->

  

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40thStreetBlack
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Fri Jun-17-22 05:18 PM

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62. "Insightful analysis."
In response to Reply # 60


          

>Truth be told? I don't think GSW wins this title without
>Andrew Wiggins performing like he did.

___________________

Mar-A-Lago delenda est

  

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40thStreetBlack
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61. "We Need To Talk About Jayson Tatum."
In response to Reply # 0


          

FRAUD!


TALK ABOUT IT!

___________________

Mar-A-Lago delenda est

  

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