Before Crawford became undisputed at 140, I always felt like he is the best boxer at 147 the day he moves up to welterweight. I think he is the most talented guy in arguably the most competitive division in boxing.

Having said that, any fighter that signs with Bob Arum cannot be serious about fighting guys from PBC. There is very little evidence to suggest those fights will become a reality. He resigned with Top Rank in 2018 when it was clear every other fighter with a name was aligned with Haymon at his weight class. He didn't even get Manny when both of them were with Top Rank. We wanted to see Spence fight Thurman, Garcia, Porter years ago. I can understand why it didn't happen back then, Spence was more risk than reward. But I never felt like the fights wouldn't happen because they all fought under the PBC banner. The fights just didn't happen when I wanted them to happen. Everyone will want to fight Spence now that he is undisputed and the biggest PPV star in the division outside of Manny. The reward justifies the risk now. But where does this leave Crawford? He is not necessarily a PPV attraction and can only sell our arenas in Omaha. Spence is openly talking about Manny, Garcia, Porter rematch, or possibly a fight with Julian Williams at 154. (ALL PBC guys) Spence has considerably more options at competitive fights than Crawford. We can't say for sure Spence/Crawford ever happens.

I still think Crawford is the most talented but I don't know if he can beat Spence. Truth is Crawford has not fought anybody at 147 that's as good as Ugas, let alone Porter, Garcia, Thurman, or Spence. Nobody was clamoring for a fight between him and Benavidez or Amir Khan. We just don't know and we may never know.

I'm not sure of the inner workings of that deal that led him to resign, but strictly from the standpoint of fighting the best fighters at his division, someone from his team had to have seen this coming. PBC is being extremely petty by boxing him out, but they can afford to do that and they have proven before that they can and will. I can't even begin to come up with a worthy non-PBC opponent for him

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2. I refuse to get caught up in all this advocating for where boxers should sign. If 2 fighters wanna fight, they'll make a fight. Errol said explicitly that he'll "never go against the grain" with Al Haymon. I doesn't matter if Spence wants the fight, because Al doesn't want it, period.
On that same note, remember before Crawford even got a title at 147, he was already calling Errol out. Errol said he'd fight him as soon as he got a belt at 147. Now that Terence has the belt, there are more excuses and more reasons why the fight can't happen. Now there's "taking the easy route" by fighting Porter first or fighting Williams at 154. All the excuses and changes of story are coming from Spence, but people still wanna blame Bud. Man gtfoh lol.
As boxing fans, our only responsibility is to demand the fights that we want to see... not be be managers or advisers telling them where to sign. When this fight was first being mentioned, everyone just wanted it to happen. Now that PBC is playing in-house games, alotta people have started taking shots at Crawford for signing with Top Rank. Frankly, that's ridiculous. Top Rank has worked with Matchroom multiple times this year, even in unification fights. They don't mind having their champions fight champions from other promotional outfits, so blaming Terence is stupid, to be blunt.
Terence has a wife and 5 children, so I'm sure he's looking out for their future when deciding which contract to sign. And like I just said, Top Rank has proven that they can work with others. Perhaps he didn't expect PBC to be so scared to put Spence in with him. Who knows, but I'm not getting into all that "shoulda signed here" silliness. If BOTH of them insist on making the fight, it happens. But Al don't want it, and Errol will "never go against the grain with Al Haymon."

>I still think Crawford is the most talented but I don't know
>if he can beat Spence. Truth is Crawford has not fought
>anybody at 147 that's as good as Ugas, let alone Porter,
>Garcia, Thurman, or Spence. Nobody was clamoring for a fight
>between him and Benavidez or Amir Khan.

Nobody was clamoring for a fight between Spence and Mikey Garcia either.
Terence also got his title by beating the guy who beat Pacquiao... the guy who Errol wants to fight right now

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Days like this I miss Sha Mecca

Point taken, I did mean unified.

>On that same note, remember before Crawford even got a title
>at 147, he was already calling Errol out. Errol said he'd
>fight him as soon as he got a belt at 147. Now that Terence
>has the belt, there are more excuses and more reasons why the
>fight can't happen. Now there's "taking the easy route" by
>fighting Porter first or fighting Williams at 154. All the
>excuses and changes of story are coming from Spence, but
>people still wanna blame Bud. Man gtfoh lol.
>As boxing fans, our only responsibility is to demand the
>fights that we want to see... not be be managers or advisers
>telling them where to sign. When this fight was first being
>mentioned, everyone just wanted it to happen. Now that PBC is
>playing in-house games, alotta people have started taking
>shots at Crawford for signing with Top Rank. Frankly, that's
>ridiculous. Top Rank has worked with Matchroom multiple times
>this year, even in unification fights. They don't mind having
>their champions fight champions from other promotional
>outfits, so blaming Terence is stupid, to be blunt.
>Terence has a wife and 5 children, so I'm sure he's looking
>out for their future when deciding which contract to sign. And
>like I just said, Top Rank has proven that they can work with
>others. Perhaps he didn't expect PBC to be so scared to put
>Spence in with him. Who knows, but I'm not getting into all
>that "shoulda signed here" silliness. If BOTH of them insist
>on making the fight, it happens. But Al don't want it, and
>Errol will "never go against the grain with Al Haymon."

Clearly as boxing fans we demand the fights we want to see. However, this is not Utopia. We are holding contemporary fighters to the standards of how business was conducted 30 years ago, it is no longer applicable. I never said Arum didn't do business with other promoters. This is specifically about Arum and Haymon. History proves I'm correct. They will be judged by the most meaningful fights of the time like Mayweather/Pacquiao or today Spence/Crawford but there was a multitude of other fights that could be made between the promoters that never happened. They just don't do business with each other. For example, Tim Bradley called Spence out for not fighting Crawford. Spence responded by saying something like Bradley retired when he was in line to fight Spence implying Bradley was scared. Bradley of course took issue with what was being insinuated. He talked about him not having the option to fight Haymon fighters in his day because the promoters didn't do business with each other. I'm saying to myself, is the truce over? Like what did I miss, they STILL don't do business with each other.


I am a fan of the sport but I have also been paying attention to how business has actually been done. You mention Crawford having a wife and 5 kids which speaks to desire to be able to provide for them financially. Errol has a family too. What you call excuses coming from Spence could also be called options that Terrence simply doesn't have. Errol was talking about unifying before he became champion. The champions at the time made him starve. They taught him the business of boxing. And as he has recently remarked after the Porter fight, "My how the tables have turned now." He is in the drivers seat. He wants to make the most profitable fights he can make while he has the opportunity. It is a fact that Terrence needs him. He might as well be on an island over there with Arum. You act like they go to the same school and can just square up after class. Showtime/ESPN/Fox, there is a lot of corporate money at stake, acrimonious relationships between promoters, egos, money. There is a lot that goes into making a fight between two promoters aligned to two different networks. Hence, it doesn't happen that often.

We can agree to disagree. I stand by what I said. There is no evidence to suggest any certainty of having the opportunity to fight the best fighters in his division being a Top Rank fighter. We are not taking about what should be or what we want to see, we are talking about how the game is actually played today.


>Terence also got his title by beating the guy who beat
>Pacquiao... the guy who Errol wants to fight right now

Don't die on this Jeff Horn shield fam. Don't do that. Terrence wanted to fight Pacquiao when they were both with Top Rank and rightfully so. Manny has been semi retired for the past 3 years. He just came back in the fold, actually came into the ring after the Spence fight in Dallas, of course Errol wants to fight him. That is a bigger fight right now than fighting Crawford. Remember this is about wife and kids and building futures. Just acknowledge Errol has more potential contracts. Both of them businessmen.

>Point taken, I did mean unified.
>
>>On that same note, remember before Crawford even got a title
>>at 147, he was already calling Errol out. Errol said he'd
>>fight him as soon as he got a belt at 147. Now that Terence
>>has the belt, there are more excuses and more reasons why
>the
>>fight can't happen. Now there's "taking the easy route" by
>>fighting Porter first or fighting Williams at 154. All the
>>excuses and changes of story are coming from Spence, but
>>people still wanna blame Bud. Man gtfoh lol.
>>As boxing fans, our only responsibility is to demand the
>>fights that we want to see... not be be managers or advisers
>>telling them where to sign. When this fight was first being
>>mentioned, everyone just wanted it to happen. Now that PBC
>is
>>playing in-house games, alotta people have started taking
>>shots at Crawford for signing with Top Rank. Frankly,
>that's
>>ridiculous. Top Rank has worked with Matchroom multiple
>times
>>this year, even in unification fights. They don't mind
>having
>>their champions fight champions from other promotional
>>outfits, so blaming Terence is stupid, to be blunt.
>>Terence has a wife and 5 children, so I'm sure he's looking
>>out for their future when deciding which contract to sign.
>And
>>like I just said, Top Rank has proven that they can work
>with
>>others. Perhaps he didn't expect PBC to be so scared to put
>>Spence in with him. Who knows, but I'm not getting into all
>>that "shoulda signed here" silliness. If BOTH of them
>insist
>>on making the fight, it happens. But Al don't want it, and
>>Errol will "never go against the grain with Al Haymon."
>
>Clearly as boxing fans we demand the fights we want to see.
>However, this is not Utopia. We are holding contemporary
>fighters to the standards of how business was conducted 30
>years ago, it is no longer applicable. I never said Arum
>didn't do business with other promoters. This is specifically
>about Arum and Haymon. History proves I'm correct. They will
>be judged by the most meaningful fights of the time like
>Mayweather/Pacquiao or today Spence/Crawford but there was a
>multitude of other fights that could be made between the
>promoters that never happened. They just don't do business
>with each other. For example, Tim Bradley called Spence out
>for not fighting Crawford. Spence responded by saying
>something like Bradley retired when he was in line to fight
>Spence implying Bradley was scared. Bradley of course took
>issue with what was being insinuated. He talked about him not
>having the option to fight Haymon fighters in his day because
>the promoters didn't do business with each other. I'm saying
>to myself, is the truce over? Like what did I miss, they
>STILL don't do business with each other.
>
>
>I am a fan of the sport but I have also been paying attention
>to how business has actually been done. You mention Crawford
>having a wife and 5 kids which speaks to desire to be able to
>provide for them financially. Errol has a family too.


5 children and a wife vs 2 children. Is this a comparison? If so, one is more expensive than the other.


>What you call excuses coming from Spence could also be called
>options that Terrence simply doesn't have.


I call them excuses because he said he'd fight Terence as soon as Terence got a belt. His story changed. I care about his word, which obviously ain't shit at this point. Errol "The Lie" Spence would be more fitting. He's gone back on his word.


>Errol was talking
>about unifying before he became champion. The champions at
>the time made him starve. They taught him the business of
>boxing.


And all this happened before he said he'd fight Terence when he got a title, so it's not helping the case.


>And as he has recently remarked after the Porter
>fight, "My how the tables have turned now."


Yeah he's been typing "Tables turn" on Twitter and Instagram since the time of the Mikey Garcia fight or little before.


>He is in the
>drivers seat. He wants to make the most profitable fights he
>can make while he has the opportunity. It is a fact that
>Terrence needs him. He might as well be on an island over
>there with Arum. You act like they go to the same school and
>can just square up after class. Showtime/ESPN/Fox, there is a
>lot of corporate money at stake, acrimonious relationships
>between promoters, egos, money. There is a lot that goes into
>making a fight between two promoters aligned to two different
>networks. Hence, it doesn't happen that often.


It does. It just doesn't where Haymon is concerned. Hooker and Ramirez just unified on DAZN. Loma fought Campbell, Yarde fought Kovalev. The list goes on. Many of his fighters are on islands as well. Marcus Browne for instance had been in position to fight for a title for a while. The problem was none of the champions in his weight class are with the PBC. They don't give their champions away like that. Ruiz was let off the leash because he wasn't a champion yet and wasn't important to them. They've let Ugas fight on a Top Rank card before too. Unification bouts like Hooker and Ramirez tho? Forget about it.


>We can agree to disagree. I stand by what I said. There is
>no evidence to suggest any certainty of having the opportunity
>to fight the best fighters in his division being a Top Rank
>fighter. We are not taking about what should be or what we
>want to see, we are talking about how the game is actually
>played today.




I mean we would have to agree to disagree if you're not going to acknowledge the fact that Top Rank JUST CONDUCTED a unification match with another promotion outfit. When did you see PBC do that with anyone? The problem isn't necessarily Top Rank. That's the LDBC narrative. Listen, I can appreciate advocating for the Black-operated business, but we can't lie about what's actually going on. If their tactic is to freeze everyone out, it just is what it is... especially if they're freezing out other Black people and got shills calling that man names and disrespecting him.


>>Terence also got his title by beating the guy who beat
>>Pacquiao... the guy who Errol wants to fight right now
>
>Don't die on this Jeff Horn shield fam. Don't do that.


Ain't nobody dying nowhere. I'm responding to your claim that Horn isn't an important win or that he's "beat nobody." Nothing you're saying below is denying that. Horn gave Pacquiao hell, and Terence made it look like child's play. That's just a fact.


>Terrence wanted to fight Pacquiao when they were both with Top
>Rank and rightfully so. Manny has been semi retired for the
>past 3 years. He just came back in the fold, actually came
>into the ring after the Spence fight in Dallas, of course
>Errol wants to fight him. That is a bigger fight right now
>than fighting Crawford. Remember this is about wife and kids
>and building futures. Just acknowledge Errol has more
>potential contracts. Both of them businessmen.

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Days like this I miss Sha Mecca

the contract just a few hrs ago.
He also pinpoints the most sensible reason Spence wants to stall the fight out (wanting to get the most money for it in case he loses). See, that why him signing to PBC wouldn't even make a difference. Like you said, Thurman, Danny, Porter all never expressed interest in fighting Errol until the reward outweighed the risk. Spence would do the same with Bud no matter when he's signed.
https://www.tmz.com/2019/10/08/terence-crawford-errol-spence-superfight-contract/

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Days like this I miss Sha Mecca

What choice does he have? Do we even know what's in that contract?

I don't believe any of these guys at the top are scared of fighting anybody. They have been fighting all of their lives. This is what they do. I just don't put a lot of stock in what fighters say when they aren't actually making decisions on fights getting made. Terrence has also said several times, he just does his job which is to fight. It is up to Bob to play match maker. When Bob not trying to sue Haymon, he talking ish about him. Arum is desperate and has publicly voiced his displeasure with the numbers from Crawford's last PPV. Haymon doesn't talk at all. This is all about them, not the fighters. I just know Haymon is not going to be intimidated into making a fight. He will do it on his terms and his time. If Arum were in his shoes it would go EXACTLY the same way.

You keep calling Haymon a promoter, but the official title is "adviser" which is why they couldn't sue him in court. And that's the line that Haymon fanboys love to use. They say PBC guys can fight anywhere they like because they aren't under contract, but obviously they aren't "advised" to do so very often at all. It's only in the case that they aren't champions and not valued very much at PBC... meaning there's nothing to lose with them.
This all adds up with Errol. Ruiz was allowed to go fight Joshua because he had everything to gain and nothing to lose. Same with Derevyanchenko just fighting GGG or Ugas on a Top Rank card. There's too much potential for Errol to get beaten by Crawford. They not confident that boy can beat Bud, and I don't blame them lol. Add in the fact that Errol says he'll "never go against the grain with Al" and we know exactly what "the grain" is. It's him not fighting outside the PBC. Don't get me wrong, both sides of this would maximize their money if they had all the fighters, but Arum just showed us he'll let his champion fight elsewhere when he's confident they'll win. Al just ain't about that life.

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Days like this I miss Sha Mecca

>You keep calling Haymon a promoter, but the official title is
>"adviser" which is why they couldn't sue him in court.

True. But Al Haymon is PBC and all of these guys fight under the PBC banner.

>This all adds up with Errol. Ruiz was allowed to go fight
>Joshua because he had everything to gain and nothing to lose.
>Same with Derevyanchenko just fighting GGG or Ugas on a Top
>Rank card. There's too much potential for Errol to get beaten
>by Crawford. They not confident that boy can beat Bud, and I
>don't blame them lol. Add in the fact that Errol says he'll
>"never go against the grain with Al" and we know exactly what
>"the grain" is. It's him not fighting outside the PBC. Don't
>get me wrong, both sides of this would maximize their money if
>they had all the fighters, but Arum just showed us he'll let
>his champion fight elsewhere when he's confident they'll win.
>Al just ain't about that life.

I understand what you are saying regarding Top Rank doing business with other promoters. Still doesn't prove Haymon is the sole reason these fights aren't occurring. Haymon compared to Matchroom is not exactly apples to apples. It takes two(c)Rob Bass There is enough speculation to question the motives of each guy here. One thing we agree on is we both really want to see this fight. I agree Errol doesn't appear to be making Crawford a priority now. Terrence has no choice but to trash Errol. But again, I don't put too much weight on what fighters have to say because ultimately they have very little control over their professional careers as long as they are signed with Advisors/Promoters. Spence saying he will fight Crawford when he gets a belt is no different than us discussing the potential match up in a barbershop. And Spence is still saying he will fight Crawford "eventually" just not tomorrow. If I were Crawford/Arum I would lobby for a fight against Porter, Garcia, or Ugas since Thurman is injured again. If it happens and Crawford wins he has a more compelling argument to say Spence is being protected. I just want to see the most competitive fights. And discuss it with knowledgeable fight fans.

Probably "advised" by Al to wait on the winner of Spence vs Porter. Idk if fighting Ugas does anything for Bud since he didn't officially get the win against Porter. I'd respect the win for sure, I think alotta ppl would still say Bud ain't fought nobody if he beat Ugas regardless how ignorant of a statement that would be. I totally agree that Porter would be a fantastic win for Bud, considering the fight he just gave Errol and his pedigree as someone who's never been dominated. You may have seen people recently circulating a past clip where Bud said he didn't wanna fight Porter because they grew up together and are friends and that he just wants to fight Spence, but idk if Terence's tune has changed now. If Porter is truly willing to fight him now, I'd say he needs to take that fight, and I can't defend him in that regard if he doesn't.

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Days like this I miss Sha Mecca