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Lobby Okay Sports topic #2703280

Subject: "did the Dolphins bring The Process to the NFL, or are they just stupid?" Previous topic | Next topic
will_5198
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Tue Sep-17-19 08:16 PM

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"did the Dolphins bring The Process to the NFL, or are they just stupid?"


          

it's sort of an interesting topic, since they are so committed to tanking at this point. it's rare you see that in the NFL, because losing a bunch of football games still requires blood, sweat and ACL tears (unlike basketball).

right now Miami has the following draft selections*:

2020 1st rounder
2020 1st rounder (Pittsburgh)
2020 1st rounder (Houston)
2020 2nd rounder
2020 2nd rounder (New Orleans)
2020 3rd rounder
2020 3rd rounder (comp)
2020 4th rounder (Tennessee)
2020 5th rounder (Pittsburgh)
2020 5th rounder (comp)

2021 1st rounder
2021 1st rounder (Houston)
2021 2nd rounder
2021 2nd rounder (Houston)
2021 3rd rounder
2021 4th rounder
2021 5th rounder

*I didn't include anything in the 6th round or later because with that many picks, they likely couldn't sign them all and will probably just use them to move up in the 4th-5th rounds.

ho-lee shit. that is a ton of draft capital. in what looks to be a very good cycle of college quarterbacks in the next two classes, for about as well as we can quantify that via crystal ball.

does it work? of course it depends on the draft, where even the best GMs are right half the time. and if Flores and his staff can coach (he'd be an outlier coming from the Belichick tree). but I read that this is a chance to completely restart, develop positions that take time, get a bunch of cheap talent on rookie deals, and take their shot at the division as Brady breaks down at age 45.

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Topic Outline
Subject Author Message Date ID
Should be fun to watch this play out and see how well it works
Sep 17th 2019
1
as I understand, they don't want to de-value Rosen
Sep 17th 2019
3
The last part of your statement answers the question.
Sep 17th 2019
2
It's an amazing haul and impressive dedication
Sep 17th 2019
4
right, there are a number of problems
Sep 18th 2019
6
the mid to late round picks is the trickiest part
Sep 18th 2019
7
lol four #1 overall picks in six years. FOUR.
Sep 18th 2019
8
that's the interesting bit
Sep 20th 2019
15
i mean they managed to lose plenty without trying
Sep 18th 2019
5
Hershel Walker trade says that this strategy can work
Sep 18th 2019
9
ehhhh i dunno
Sep 19th 2019
13
Giants should be tanking for Jerry Jeudy right now.
Sep 19th 2019
10
two out of three ain't bad
Sep 19th 2019
11
as long as they dont pull a John Elway this should work
Sep 19th 2019
12
exactly. a very savvy org could make it work. they aren't that.
Sep 19th 2019
14
so they aren't getting Burrow/Young
Dec 29th 2019
16
Flores impressed me
Dec 30th 2019
17
Flores did a hell of a job. just missed the playoffs but won 10 games.
Jan 04th 2021
18
Easily, Coach of the Year and they have a lot of picks to get some
Jan 04th 2021
19
The dump Tua talk is crazy IMO
Jan 04th 2021
20
      Yeah.
Jan 04th 2021
21
      RE: Yeah.
Jan 05th 2021
25
      that would be insanity...
Jan 05th 2021
23
      its insane. he doesn't have anybody to throw to
Jan 05th 2021
26
           People said this is why Fitzpatrick was successful
Jan 05th 2021
27
They have the 3rd overall pick?
Jan 05th 2021
22
      RE: They have the 3rd overall pick?
Jan 05th 2021
24

calij81
Member since Jan 17th 2007
12392 posts
Tue Sep-17-19 10:32 PM

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1. "Should be fun to watch this play out and see how well it works"
In response to Reply # 0


          

If they hit on half their draft picks, pick up a few bargain pieces in FA and Brady or BB finally retires then the division could be theirs to run for the next 5-8 years.

I was high on Rosen while he was at UCLA and I think your were as well. Do you think he fits into their long term plans? Do you think Rosen even has a future in the NFL as a starter? I just figured his struggles last season were largely due to him being a rookie and the Cardinals lack of talent. I was surprised he didn’t beat Fitz out in Miami but I figure he will see the field sometime this season.

  

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will_5198
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Tue Sep-17-19 10:38 PM

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3. "as I understand, they don't want to de-value Rosen"
In response to Reply # 1


          

and are trying to get back the 2nd round investment they made on him. so they don't want him to take the brunt of the rebuild.

or maybe he just sucks. I think his surrounding casts after 18 games in the league make that hard to judge.

either way, he's so cheap they should keep him anyway. his rookie contract is less than most veteran back-ups. they can draft a top QB and still have a cheap developmental QB to flip at the end of his contract (a la Garoppolo).

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Lil Rabies
Member since Oct 12th 2005
1575 posts
Tue Sep-17-19 10:37 PM

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2. "The last part of your statement answers the question."
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

They want to bubble until Brady is gone like a dealer preparing to flood the block knowing that the warrant squad is imminent for their rival. Open that window as wide as you can if it works.

Taking shots in the dark/that's a bad call
Going straight for your head/ gotta saw it off

  

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smutsboy
Member since Jun 29th 2002
33137 posts
Tue Sep-17-19 11:28 PM

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4. "It's an amazing haul and impressive dedication"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

But I feel like in the NFL you can't and shouldn't do a complete and total detonation the way you might do in hockey or basketball.

In hockey you can get by with like one decent top line and three lines of depth players and youth.

But in the NFL aren't rosters too big and some positions too important?

For example, trading Laremy Tunsil? The guy is 25. Maybe you don't want an elite left tackle this year, but are they not going to want one 2, 3, 5 years from now while Tunsil is still in his prime? So now they're going to have to draft one in 1-2 years?

I dunno.

I kinda love rebuilds in any sport (shout out to Jagr -> Ovechkin), but this seems too much.

  

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ConcreteCharlie
Member since Nov 21st 2002
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Wed Sep-18-19 12:18 AM

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6. "right, there are a number of problems"
In response to Reply # 4


  

          

first off of the four or five major sports, a football player has the least impact as an individual. secondly you need to hit on mid and late round picks to have a winning team. thirdly there is a shit ton of player movement and you'll never sign any free agents of a decent value and barely any at all if you suck a fat one year after year.

the easiest sport to do it in basketball because the best players are so concentrated in the top 10 picks and of course one guy can turn your whole shit around, in ways that even an elite QB, LT, etc cannot in the NFL. hockey it's not tough either, unless you're fucking edmonton, because you get two or three money guys by sucking and there are other means of getting the rest of the roster (hard cap creates FA and trade movement, plus culturally firings/trades are much more common than other sports). i think it's a hard sell in baseball, unless you're smart AF about it (e.g. Astros) and in the NFL it's goddamn near impossible.

And you will know MY JACKET IS GOLD when I lay my vengeance upon thee.

  

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Rjcc
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Wed Sep-18-19 04:19 AM

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7. "the mid to late round picks is the trickiest part"
In response to Reply # 6


          

I just don't know how you balance that on a football team. most guys aren't good enough in their first few years to carry the whole thing without the mid round vets you hit on a few years before.

at best you end up with some stars, but by the time they're ready to win now you gotta pay all of them and now the franchise tag is working against you cuz you can only tag one

www.engadgethd.com - the other stuff i'm looking at

  

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smutsboy
Member since Jun 29th 2002
33137 posts
Wed Sep-18-19 08:55 AM

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8. "lol four #1 overall picks in six years. FOUR. "
In response to Reply # 6


  

          

>unless you're fucking edmonton

  

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will_5198
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Fri Sep-20-19 08:32 PM

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15. "that's the interesting bit"
In response to Reply # 4


          

>For example, trading Laremy Tunsil? The guy is 25. Maybe you
>don't want an elite left tackle this year, but are they not
>going to want one 2, 3, 5 years from now while Tunsil is still
>in his prime? So now they're going to have to draft one in 1-2
>years?

Tunsil is going to be a FA after next season, when you'll have to pay him $20+ million a season. but you are still getting his prime (age 27-33) at a position that is probably the 2nd-hardest to draft right now, outside quarterback.

so do you bet that your team will be good enough by 2021 to tie up $100 million at LT? because spending that kind of money means you start the win-now countdown. or do you bet that you hit on 3 players in the top 50 of the draft, who'll be on rookie contracts until 2023-24, and put yourself in a better place cap-wise with a better overall team?

I think LT is such a premium and Tunsil is young enough to keep him. but maybe the team is so shitty (well no maybe, they are) that you had to sell him to jump-start this rebuild. and he certainly netted a big return. but then you have to hit on at least 2 of the 3 picks.

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ConcreteCharlie
Member since Nov 21st 2002
71344 posts
Wed Sep-18-19 12:15 AM

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5. "i mean they managed to lose plenty without trying"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

but i'll say this, that steelers 2020 pick is looking pretty fuckin nice right now. between that and their own pick, they could really kick start this rebuild.

And you will know MY JACKET IS GOLD when I lay my vengeance upon thee.

  

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Orbit_Established
Member since Oct 27th 2002
52850 posts
Wed Sep-18-19 11:28 PM

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9. "Hershel Walker trade says that this strategy can work"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          


They really did draft foundational Hall of Fame guys
from those picks

  

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ConcreteCharlie
Member since Nov 21st 2002
71344 posts
Thu Sep-19-19 05:55 PM

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13. "ehhhh i dunno"
In response to Reply # 9


  

          

it's of an outlier to me and people widely misunderstand what made that trade work. your idea that they got "legitimate HOF players" out of it, while kinda true, helps illustrate why.

first off, a big issue was that the vikings attached conditional picks to the roster players they sent to dallas. they figured dallas needed players and would keep most if not all of the five roster players they sent to them. in one case, a player refused to report and they traded him to san diego for another pick. the other four guys i don't think ever played a down for minnesota and the cowboys cashed in those picks. that replaced the picks they sent out and then some.

from there, the cowboys had to finesse a number of things, coupling the assets they acquired with other assets to move up in the draft to select emmitt smit--who was really the key to them winning the trade--with pittsburgh's first rounder (they sent one of minnie's picks plus assets to move up). that was the first first rounder. the second one they also packaged in a big package that was kinda risky in its own right, their deal to move up for russell maryland (he was supposed to be the cornerstone to their rebuild).

they made another deal with the pats that got them darren woodson in the second round and indirectly (yet another trade) kevin smith who started for them for a while at corner.

those were the significant guys they got in the trade, and as you can see none of them were directly obtained in the deal. they had to maneuver well beyond the additional deal to get the best out of it, and you'd never see a team make that type of deal today.

And you will know MY JACKET IS GOLD when I lay my vengeance upon thee.

  

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allStah
Member since Jun 21st 2014
4632 posts
Thu Sep-19-19 07:07 AM

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10. "Giants should be tanking for Jerry Jeudy right now."
In response to Reply # 0


          

Seriously. Jones-Barkley-Jeudy.

Miami need TT, it’s the right thing to do

  

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smutsboy
Member since Jun 29th 2002
33137 posts
Thu Sep-19-19 09:42 AM

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11. "two out of three ain't bad"
In response to Reply # 10


  

          

>Jones-Barkley-Jeudy.

  

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HecticHavoc
Member since May 13th 2005
7441 posts
Thu Sep-19-19 10:48 AM

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12. "as long as they dont pull a John Elway this should work"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

no matter how many draft picks this stupid asshole has he is completely clueless.

This Bolles dude had FOUR HOLDING PENALTIES in one week. Gutter trash. picked Assweiler over Russell Wilson and Cousins.

I could write an essay but im gonna stop myself.

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ConcreteCharlie
Member since Nov 21st 2002
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Thu Sep-19-19 05:56 PM

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14. "exactly. a very savvy org could make it work. they aren't that."
In response to Reply # 12


  

          

And you will know MY JACKET IS GOLD when I lay my vengeance upon thee.

  

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will_5198
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Sun Dec-29-19 05:34 PM

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16. "so they aren't getting Burrow/Young"
In response to Reply # 0


          

but the way Flores has rallied these guys over the course of the season was a hell of a coaching job. I think I'd be more encouraged as a fan by the on-field results and 5th pick than a complete dumpster fire like Cincinnati.

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The Real
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Mon Dec-30-19 08:53 AM

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17. "Flores impressed me"
In response to Reply # 16


  

          

Especially with that roster.

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will_5198
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Mon Jan-04-21 01:37 AM

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18. "Flores did a hell of a job. just missed the playoffs but won 10 games."
In response to Reply # 0


          

and now they have the 3rd overall pick.

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calij81
Member since Jan 17th 2007
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Mon Jan-04-21 02:21 AM

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19. "Easily, Coach of the Year and they have a lot of picks to get some "
In response to Reply # 18


          

help for the offense. They could even trade out of that 3 spot and get a few more picks.

I do think he needs to get rid of Chan Gailey but Tuas youth and lack of playmakers probably buys Gailey another season as OC.

  

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The Real
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Mon Jan-04-21 03:54 PM

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20. "The dump Tua talk is crazy IMO"
In response to Reply # 19


  

          

Dude didn't get a full training camp coming, was coming off an injury, and they had major COVID implications on the offensive side of the ball.

Also, how many times is Fitzpatrick going to fool people?

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obsidianchrysalis
Member since Jan 29th 2003
7744 posts
Mon Jan-04-21 08:40 PM

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21. "Yeah. "
In response to Reply # 20


  

          

He's not Josh Rosen or even Darnold. Give Tua some time.

I think people think because Maholmes came in and lit the world on fire, every young quarterback ought to do that. Even Maholmes got a year to sit and watch.

<--- Me when my head hits the pillow

  

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jimaveli
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Tue Jan-05-21 11:18 AM

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25. "RE: Yeah. "
In response to Reply # 21


  

          

>He's not Josh Rosen or even Darnold. Give Tua some time.
>
>I think people think because Maholmes came in and lit the
>world on fire, every young quarterback ought to do that. Even
>Maholmes got a year to sit and watch.

Sadly, this happens almost anytime a few players from the same position blows up early. I'm old enough to remember when OBJ, Landry, and others blew up and folks went to town taking shaky WRs and assuming they were gonna be on some 90 catch 10 TD stuff outta the gate. OOPS!

And how many small/fast/'gadget' players have gotten drafted early after Sproles (and even a dude like Percy Harvin)?

And yeah, Mahomes was and is a special arm talent who landed in the best possible place. Andy and Eric were on some LMAO stuff when the Bears took Mitch and left them a shot at Patrick. And now that he's learning the game and making life easier on himself, good luck stopping him on a regular basis with that group of pass catchers. And folks need to understand that KC's offensive line has not been amazing this year at all. AKA he could be doing even more.

  

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Dstl1
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Tue Jan-05-21 10:29 AM

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23. "that would be insanity..."
In response to Reply # 20


          

dude is so young and inexperienced. What they need is a new OC, for real...and some weapons. Dan Orlovsky cringed at the idea of them drafting a QB when Greenie posed the question, yesterday. He and Rex Ryan were both like....no, stop! Use that pick and get the best OL in the draft or an elite WR and build out.

when I threw the rifle in the river,
it looked like Bol Bol was diving in the river - Action Bronson

  

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BrooklynWHAT
Member since Jun 15th 2007
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Tue Jan-05-21 11:28 AM

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26. "its insane. he doesn't have anybody to throw to"
In response to Reply # 20


  

          

<--- Big Baller World Order

  

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The Real
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Tue Jan-05-21 12:31 PM

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27. "People said this is why Fitzpatrick was successful "
In response to Reply # 26


  

          

The wideouts were bad and Fitzpatrick is at the point in his career where he is like "eff it" and didn't care if he threw INTs. Tua is trying to throw people open and they are not getting separation.

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Sofian_Hadi
Member since Jan 03rd 2003
3274 posts
Tue Jan-05-21 10:01 AM

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22. "They have the 3rd overall pick?"
In response to Reply # 18


          

Holy sh*t. Not sure how i missed that. To win ten games, rebound from a rebuild, have Tua as a possble franchise or draft a new QB is pretty damn amazing

---------------------------------------

"The world is before you and you need not take it or leave it as it was when you came in." - James Baldwin

  

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jimaveli
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Tue Jan-05-21 11:08 AM

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24. "RE: They have the 3rd overall pick?"
In response to Reply # 22


  

          

>Holy sh*t. Not sure how i missed that. To win ten games,
>rebound from a rebuild, have Tua as a possble franchise or
>draft a new QB is pretty damn amazing

Yep. BOB in Houston made that trade figuring the Texans would be good and the picks wouldn't be all that valuable. Oops. They sucked. They were hurt. He got canned. The defense laid down a lot. 4-12. Giving up a top 3 pick (and anotha pick) for Kenny Stills and Tunsil isn't aging well at all.

  

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