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Lobby Okay Sports topic #2701564

Subject: "Is Draymond Green a Hall of Famer?" Previous topic | Next topic
Frank Longo
Member since Nov 18th 2003
82843 posts
Wed Aug-07-19 02:21 PM

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"Poll question: Is Draymond Green a Hall of Famer?"


  

          

Cons:
- Only three ASGs
- Lower counting stats than the vast majority of HOFers

Pros:
- Three titles
- Two All-NBAs
- a DPOY, five All-Defense teams, and arguably a top five defender of the decade
- irrefutably helped change the game into the current era of basketball

What say you?

Poll result (20 votes)
Yes (16 votes)Vote
No (4 votes)Vote

  

  

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Topic Outline
Subject Author Message Date ID
are we talking about the Shrek Hall of Fame?
Aug 07th 2019
1
help me with this?
Aug 07th 2019
2
Every team is trying to find a Draymond to play like the Warriors.
Aug 07th 2019
3
      so basically: the Rodman effect.
Aug 07th 2019
4
      Are there any other Draymonds out there?
Aug 07th 2019
6
      I see your point but Draymond is really once-in-a-generation
Aug 07th 2019
7
           Oh, no doubt— that’s the point I’m making.
Aug 07th 2019
8
           so so damn smart
Aug 07th 2019
11
Duh.
Aug 07th 2019
5
today, no. at the end, absolutely.
Aug 07th 2019
9
Yes, he is this generations Dennis Rodman
Aug 07th 2019
10
I would take him over Rodman
Aug 07th 2019
13
      different players from different eras
Aug 07th 2019
14
      Rodman is a better defender than draymond by a lot
Aug 08th 2019
16
      As a man defender? Sure.
Aug 10th 2019
22
      Weird comparison.
Aug 08th 2019
18
Mortal lock, the way the standards are falling probably first ballot
Aug 07th 2019
12
My 1st thought was that he's right on the edge...
Aug 08th 2019
15
he probably will be, but he shouldn't be
Aug 08th 2019
17
Yes, but only because standards've been lowered
Aug 09th 2019
19
according to this Hall of Fame Probability model he's not quite there...
Aug 09th 2019
20
Shit, they put Joe Dumars in. Dray is in. He shouldn't be tho
Aug 10th 2019
21
since his strength is in the intangibles...
Aug 13th 2019
23
also, if they have a nut kicker wing in the HOF, then hell yes.
Aug 13th 2019
24
Dude made an all-star team averaging 11/8...
Aug 13th 2019
25
If you think his value is a mere 11/8...
Aug 14th 2019
26
      I know what his value is
Aug 14th 2019
27
           Last year he had one of his best playoffs ever
Aug 14th 2019
29
Dont forget 2012 NABC Player of the Year
Aug 14th 2019
28

Dr Claw
Member since Jun 25th 2003
129903 posts
Wed Aug-07-19 02:25 PM

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1. "are we talking about the Shrek Hall of Fame?"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

  

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tomjohn29
Member since Oct 18th 2004
16356 posts
Wed Aug-07-19 02:27 PM

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2. "help me with this?"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

>- irrefutably helped change the game into the current era of
>basketball
>

______________________________________

Navem nu, cuando sol
Tutu nu, vondo nos nu
Vita em, no continous non
Nos nu ekta nos sepe ta, amen

When the sun shades the ship
We sweat and life is not safe
To swim or to touch not
When we unite we hedge amen

  

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Frank Longo
Member since Nov 18th 2003
82843 posts
Wed Aug-07-19 03:04 PM

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3. "Every team is trying to find a Draymond to play like the Warriors."
In response to Reply # 2


  

          

Plenty of teams have shooters and are ramping up the 3PAs— but Draymond is a massive reason the Warriors have been as historically dominant as they have been. When he came into the league, he was viewed as a tweener, a player without position, and that was, at the time, a BAD thing. IIRC, the Warriors tried playing him as a 3 before David Lee got hurt, and it wasn’t as successful.

Playing small ball with a skilled player with strength and defensive versatility is what every team that wants to play like the Warriors requires. It’s why big men are passé and wings/lengthy guards are everything. “Tweener” guys who could play in the post but could also defend the perimeter and make valuable passes or shots outside? Those guys are INSANELY important now. Everything is switching, everything is skill, everything is versatility and movement.

Obviously Draymond isn’t the Draymond he is today without the historically great shooters on that team, but one can easily argue they don’t win that title without what Draymond brought to small ball, they don’t attract Durant, they don’t attain a dynasty. Sure, every team wants the next Steph, but there are a lot of guards who shoot really well really quickly, who can be Diet Coke versions of Steph or Kyrie— there are very few Draymonds in the league. That’s what makes Super Saiyan small ball work: Draymond.

Or, to put it another way, 3PAs were going up anyway before Steph exploded. They just tried to do that with traditional big men down low. Now we realize that’s not the best path. And we realize that because of Draymond.

For beer lovers: http://thebeertravelguide.com
For movie lovers: http://russellhainline.com

  

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CyrenYoung
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Wed Aug-07-19 03:13 PM

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4. "so basically: the Rodman effect."
In response to Reply # 3


  

          






*skatin' the rings of saturn*


..and miles to go before i sleep...

  

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ThaTruth
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Wed Aug-07-19 03:57 PM

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6. "Are there any other Draymonds out there?"
In response to Reply # 3


  

          

  

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Orbit_Established
Member since Oct 27th 2002
52446 posts
Wed Aug-07-19 04:17 PM

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7. "I see your point but Draymond is really once-in-a-generation"
In response to Reply # 3


  

          


A guy that smart and skilled and versatile is about
as rare as supreme shooting guards. There are more
shooting guards in the Dwade/Kobe/Harden class in the
last 15 years than there are Draymond Greens.

  

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Frank Longo
Member since Nov 18th 2003
82843 posts
Wed Aug-07-19 04:40 PM

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8. "Oh, no doubt— that’s the point I’m making."
In response to Reply # 7


  

          

Teams are chasing guys like that, trying to play them in a quasi-Draymond role, because they see the efficacy of small ball and how hyper-efficient it can be— but there’s really only one Draymond.* His skill and his use on that team has changed the game in a way other teams will be trying to replicate for the next decade.

*- Until maybe Zion, who has a lot of Dray’s skills plus even better athleticism. Which is a huge reason why people are so excited about what Zion can be.)

For beer lovers: http://thebeertravelguide.com
For movie lovers: http://russellhainline.com

  

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Amritsar
Member since Jan 18th 2008
29068 posts
Wed Aug-07-19 07:18 PM

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11. "so so damn smart"
In response to Reply # 7


  

          

there's some good clips floating around of him breaking down film. What's he thinking in moments


i'll try to find it

_______________________________________________
"Ran through enough dope for Castro to build schools in Cuba. Teach ya kids how to read and write. And use the Ruger."

  

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mrhood75
Member since Dec 06th 2004
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Wed Aug-07-19 03:36 PM

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5. "Duh."
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

-----------------

www.albumism.com

Checkin' Our Style, Return To Zero:

https://www.mixcloud.com/returntozero/

  

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cgonz00cc
Member since Aug 01st 2002
32129 posts
Wed Aug-07-19 04:45 PM

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9. "today, no. at the end, absolutely."
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

WHAT A TIME TO BE ALIVE

  

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auragin_boi
Member since Aug 01st 2003
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Wed Aug-07-19 04:52 PM

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10. "Yes, he is this generations Dennis Rodman"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

And Rodman got in.

____________
My Kids:
https://youtu.be/Tti0SHGkpVk
The W5 – “Swerve”
Official Video

Available on:
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https://tidal.com/browse/album/95038805
iTunes/Apple Music
Google Play

Thanks4UrSupport

  

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ConcreteCharlie
Member since Nov 21st 2002
70973 posts
Wed Aug-07-19 08:40 PM

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13. "I would take him over Rodman"
In response to Reply # 10


  

          

He is not the rebounder Rodman by any stretch but he is better at everything else. Rodman generated extra possessions with offensive rebounds but didn't contribute anything else on offense. Draymond can pass, is a great screen man and he can score when called upon (many forget the first half of Game 7 against Cleveland). On defense he is also more versatile, though the difference in total contribution is a lot less striking.

And you will know MY JACKET IS GOLD when I lay my vengeance upon thee.

  

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ThaTruth
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Wed Aug-07-19 10:39 PM

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14. "different players from different eras"
In response to Reply # 13


  

          

  

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kayru99
Member since Jan 26th 2004
15492 posts
Thu Aug-08-19 11:17 AM

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16. "Rodman is a better defender than draymond by a lot"
In response to Reply # 13


          

  

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ConcreteCharlie
Member since Nov 21st 2002
70973 posts
Sat Aug-10-19 08:27 PM

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22. "As a man defender? Sure."
In response to Reply # 16


  

          

And you will know MY JACKET IS GOLD when I lay my vengeance upon thee.

  

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Orbit_Established
Member since Oct 27th 2002
52446 posts
Thu Aug-08-19 12:13 PM

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18. "Weird comparison. "
In response to Reply # 13


  

          


We don't need that.

They were both tremendously valuable in their era

----------------------------



O_E: "Acts like an asshole and posts with imperial disdain"




"I ORBITs the solar system, listenin..."

(C)Keith Murray, "

  

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ConcreteCharlie
Member since Nov 21st 2002
70973 posts
Wed Aug-07-19 08:30 PM

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12. "Mortal lock, the way the standards are falling probably first ballot"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

And you will know MY JACKET IS GOLD when I lay my vengeance upon thee.

  

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Marbles
Member since Oct 19th 2004
21282 posts
Thu Aug-08-19 10:48 AM

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15. "My 1st thought was that he's right on the edge..."
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

>Cons:
>- Only three ASGs
>- Lower counting stats than the vast majority of HOFers
>
>Pros:
>- Three titles
>- Two All-NBAs
>- a DPOY, five All-Defense teams, and arguably a top five
>defender of the decade
>- irrefutably helped change the game into the current era of
>basketball

But reading your list of pros makes him a definite, IMO. Certainly, the numbers may not look like traditional HOF numbers. But I think as a generation that watched him, we know what he brought beyond the stats.

  

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kayru99
Member since Jan 26th 2004
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Thu Aug-08-19 11:18 AM

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17. "he probably will be, but he shouldn't be"
In response to Reply # 0


          

  

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melmag
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Fri Aug-09-19 10:37 AM

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19. "Yes, but only because standards've been lowered "
In response to Reply # 0


  

          


  

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ThaTruth
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Fri Aug-09-19 10:52 AM

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20. "according to this Hall of Fame Probability model he's not quite there..."
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

https://www.basketball-reference.com/about/hof_prob.html

https://www.basketball-reference.com/leaders/hof_prob.html

  

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icecold21
Member since Jan 18th 2008
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Sat Aug-10-19 01:09 PM

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21. "Shit, they put Joe Dumars in. Dray is in. He shouldn't be tho"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

Basketball HOF is a joke these days

_________________________________________

  

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roamr1
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Tue Aug-13-19 04:53 PM

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23. "since his strength is in the intangibles..."
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

longevity will have to be the other argument for him. i think yes, but i'm biased, i see the warriors play more than any other team and thus, i see the intangibles.

  

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roamr1
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Tue Aug-13-19 04:54 PM

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24. "also, if they have a nut kicker wing in the HOF, then hell yes."
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

  

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Anonymous
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Tue Aug-13-19 09:46 PM

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25. "Dude made an all-star team averaging 11/8..."
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

  

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Frank Longo
Member since Nov 18th 2003
82843 posts
Wed Aug-14-19 01:40 AM

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26. "If you think his value is a mere 11/8..."
In response to Reply # 25


  

          

... then I would politely suggest you're not watching him play.

For beer lovers: http://thebeertravelguide.com
For movie lovers: http://russellhainline.com

  

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Anonymous
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Wed Aug-14-19 02:18 PM

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27. "I know what his value is"
In response to Reply # 26


  

          

At times he’s more problems than he’s worth.

I’m looking forward to this season to see if he will return to form.

With KD there he definitely took a step back because he had to.

The point I’m making is that he is a bit overrated.

He could never be a 1 or a 2 on a team. And that’s fine because not everyone can be. He just happens to play his role better than every other role player in the league.

So the question becomes...do role players get into the hall of fame?

You could look at Rodman or Dumars and make the case Draymond deserves to get in.

The DPY definitely help his case.

But talent-wise...he’s not one of the best players to ever play.

  

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ConcreteCharlie
Member since Nov 21st 2002
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Wed Aug-14-19 06:23 PM

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29. "Last year he had one of his best playoffs ever"
In response to Reply # 27


  

          

In '16 before Durant got there, his missing a game was a huge loss that helped swing the series (probably the biggest factor) and in Game 7 while everyone struggled he hit like 6/7 from three and carried them in the first half.

We are about to see how he does as a No. 2 man because it's just him and Steph for most of this season.

And you will know MY JACKET IS GOLD when I lay my vengeance upon thee.

  

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Ceej
Member since Feb 16th 2006
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Wed Aug-14-19 02:37 PM

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28. "Dont forget 2012 NABC Player of the Year"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

He's in.

http://i.imgur.com/vPqCzVU.jpg

  

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