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Subject: "Greatest role players in NBA history?" Previous topic | Next topic
ThaTruth
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Tue May-28-19 09:26 AM

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"Poll question: Greatest role players in NBA history?"


  

          

Poll result (11 votes)
Draymond Green (3 votes)Vote
Robert Horry (3 votes)Vote
Ben Wallace (0 votes)Vote
Scottie Pippen (0 votes)Vote
Bill Russell (3 votes)Vote
somebody else? post it below... (2 votes)Vote

  

  

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Topic Outline
Subject Author Message Date ID
what the fuck is this
May 28th 2019
1
Pippen and Russell? GTFOH!
May 28th 2019
2
      lmaooooooooooo
May 28th 2019
4
      was Scottie ever winning anything as the main guy without Jordan?
May 28th 2019
5
      was Jordan ever winning anything as the main guy without Scottie?
May 28th 2019
7
      He would've been a HOF'er regardless
May 28th 2019
8
           You got issues.
May 28th 2019
10
                do you disagree?
May 28th 2019
14
      Without Jordan, Scottie:
May 28th 2019
35
      So...Kyrie a role player?
May 28th 2019
37
           If you're not a Batman you're a Robin, Robins ARE role players...
May 28th 2019
39
                So Worthy was a role player? Wade? Bosh? Young Kobe? Gasol?
May 28th 2019
41
                     POAST
May 28th 2019
42
                     yes, for titles 2& 3 yes, definitely yes, definitely not, yes
May 28th 2019
46
                     you MIGHT get away with saying Kobe was a role player for the 1st ring.....
May 29th 2019
47
                          See I would say Kobe was the clear 2nd best player for the first title
May 29th 2019
48
                               What do you consider Draymond?
May 29th 2019
49
                                    that is a fair and good question and a tough one to “label”
May 29th 2019
56
                                         I don’t disagree with anything you said and honestly the original...
May 29th 2019
57
      RE: Pippen and Russell? GTFOH!
May 30th 2019
58
RE: Greatest role players in NBA history?
May 28th 2019
3
so disrespectful...
May 28th 2019
6
I picked Big Shot Bob in my head before I clicked the post thread
May 28th 2019
9
RE: I picked Big Shot Bob in my head before I clicked the post thread
May 28th 2019
15
      Pip led the Bulls in points, assists, steals in 94 and was 2nd in reb.
May 28th 2019
25
           And lost in the 2nd round...
May 28th 2019
27
                So? Anthony Davis a role player?
May 28th 2019
36
                     he's a non-MF factor right now
May 28th 2019
40
                          so was Dream once his whole supporting cast was booted for coke
May 28th 2019
43
not every thought needs a new post
May 28th 2019
11
haha
May 28th 2019
12
Might as well list Jordan and Bron lol...
May 28th 2019
13
those are 2 of the top 5 players in NBA history, are any of the players....
May 28th 2019
16
      *tips my cap*
May 28th 2019
21
      LMFAO
May 28th 2019
28
           RE: LMFAO
May 28th 2019
33
           Kobe does have 3 rings as a role player
May 28th 2019
45
Truth found a way to get paid per post on OKS?
May 28th 2019
17
it seems like that but no the board is just wack now stuff stays on the....
May 28th 2019
18
      That’s true too.
May 28th 2019
24
Fuchsia = Worm
May 28th 2019
19
I thought about putting him in there
May 28th 2019
20
^^^^correct answer
May 28th 2019
22
He was the 1st one that came to my mind too
May 28th 2019
26
when y'all are done clutching your pearls, if Draymond gets 4 out of 5.....
May 28th 2019
23
he needs to get to 11
May 28th 2019
29
That's a pretty good answer.
May 28th 2019
30
Lmao
May 28th 2019
31
The question was about Draymond and Scottie, get out your punk ass...
May 28th 2019
32
LOLLL
May 30th 2019
60
No
May 28th 2019
38
Bill Russell: An Overrated NBA Legend
May 28th 2019
34
http://alanpaul.net/wp-content/uploads/2018/04/bill_russell_lifetime_ach...
May 28th 2019
44
This looks like fun
May 29th 2019
50
      people always get their panties in a bun when I call out their sacred...
May 29th 2019
52
Oh shit somebody take his keys
May 29th 2019
51
https://images.app.goo.gl/EzP3Dz5YwfA7TBie9
May 29th 2019
53
RE: https://images.app.goo.gl/EzP3Dz5YwfA7TBie9
May 29th 2019
54
      congrats on your archive formula!
May 29th 2019
55
Where is Vinnie Johnson?
May 30th 2019
59
don't sleep on The Microwave!
May 30th 2019
61

Ryan M
Member since Oct 21st 2002
40017 posts
Tue May-28-19 09:26 AM

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1. "what the fuck is this"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

------------------------------
'19-'20 LA Lakers

James. Davis. Kuzma. Howard. Rondo. Caldwell-Pope. Green. Cook. Bradley. McGee. Dudley. Caruso...

  

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WarriorPoet415
Member since Sep 30th 2003
17514 posts
Tue May-28-19 09:29 AM

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2. "Pippen and Russell? GTFOH!"
In response to Reply # 1


  

          


______________________________________________________________________________

"To Each His Reach"

but.....

Fuck aliens.

  

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Reeq
Member since Mar 11th 2013
7416 posts
Tue May-28-19 09:46 AM

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4. "lmaooooooooooo"
In response to Reply # 2


  

          

------

  

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ThaTruth
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Tue May-28-19 09:50 AM

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5. "was Scottie ever winning anything as the main guy without Jordan?"
In response to Reply # 2


  

          

Does he even get in the HOF and Top 50 without Jordan?

  

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Oak27
Member since Apr 17th 2005
11926 posts
Tue May-28-19 10:06 AM

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7. "was Jordan ever winning anything as the main guy without Scottie?"
In response to Reply # 5


          

  

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ThaTruth
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Tue May-28-19 10:17 AM

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8. "He would've been a HOF'er regardless"
In response to Reply # 7


  

          

  

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legsdiamond
Member since May 05th 2011
62694 posts
Tue May-28-19 10:55 AM

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10. "You got issues. "
In response to Reply # 8


          

shut up already, damn

  

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ThaTruth
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Tue May-28-19 11:07 AM

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14. "do you disagree?"
In response to Reply # 10


  

          

  

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Frank Longo
Member since Nov 18th 2003
82965 posts
Tue May-28-19 02:45 PM

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35. "Without Jordan, Scottie:"
In response to Reply # 5


  

          

- made three straight All-NBA First Teams
- made four NBA All-Defense First Teams
- came in third in MVP voting
- went to the playoffs in seven straight Jordan-less seasons, only missing the playoffs as a vet who rarely played on the 04 Bulls team
- was one of five players in NBA history to ever lead his team in points, rebounds, assists, steals, and blocks in a single season

For beer lovers: http://thebeertravelguide.com
For movie lovers: http://russellhainline.com

  

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bentagain
Member since Mar 19th 2008
14430 posts
Tue May-28-19 03:02 PM

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37. "So...Kyrie a role player?"
In response to Reply # 5


  

          

You're confusing Robins with Role Players

Scottie absolutely would have been a franchise player

He just happened to be paired with the GOAT for the majority of his career = Robin, not a role player

LOL

---------------------------------------------------------------

If you can't understand it without an explanation

you can't understand it with an explanation

  

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ThaTruth
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Tue May-28-19 03:15 PM

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39. "If you're not a Batman you're a Robin, Robins ARE role players..."
In response to Reply # 37


  

          

either you're the sun or you're a planet


>You're confusing Robins with Role Players
>
>Scottie absolutely would have been a franchise player
>
>He just happened to be paired with the GOAT for the majority
>of his career = Robin, not a role player
>
>LOL

  

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DJR
Member since Jan 01st 2005
14320 posts
Tue May-28-19 03:47 PM

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41. "So Worthy was a role player? Wade? Bosh? Young Kobe? Gasol? "
In response to Reply # 39


  

          

Cmon, that’s not what “role player” means.

  

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bentagain
Member since Mar 19th 2008
14430 posts
Tue May-28-19 03:49 PM

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42. "POAST"
In response to Reply # 41


  

          

He can’t be serious...Klay and Steph = role players

LOL

---------------------------------------------------------------

If you can't understand it without an explanation

you can't understand it with an explanation

  

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ThaTruth
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Tue May-28-19 09:05 PM

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46. "yes, for titles 2& 3 yes, definitely yes, definitely not, yes"
In response to Reply # 41


  

          

>Cmon, that’s not what “role player” means.

  

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ThaTruth
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Wed May-29-19 08:29 AM

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47. "you MIGHT get away with saying Kobe was a role player for the 1st ring....."
In response to Reply # 41


  

          

after that he was a grown ass man and he and Shaq were on equal footing.

  

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DJR
Member since Jan 01st 2005
14320 posts
Wed May-29-19 08:46 AM

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48. "See I would say Kobe was the clear 2nd best player for the first title"
In response to Reply # 47


  

          

But he was still a star player. Horry, Harper, Shaw, Fox, etc were the role players. Nobody I know uses “role player” the way you’re using it.

  

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ThaTruth
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Wed May-29-19 10:04 AM

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49. "What do you consider Draymond?"
In response to Reply # 48


  

          

  

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DJR
Member since Jan 01st 2005
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Wed May-29-19 05:24 PM

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56. "that is a fair and good question and a tough one to “label”"
In response to Reply # 49


  

          

Many have said he wouldn’t be as effective on other teams and I’ve often agreed with that line of thinking. He’s awfully good and important for GS though, and a force on both ends of the court when at his best.

I certainly wouldn’t put Scottie Pippen in that category though. He was damn near the best player in the league when Mike was playing baseball. What wings in the league were better than him from like 92-98, other than Mike? Maybe Penny for a year? Maybe G. Hill for a year or two? He was a star player that was good at everything.

  

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ThaTruth
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57. "I don’t disagree with anything you said and honestly the original..."
In response to Reply # 56


  

          

purpose of this post was how to truly quantify Draymond. Because some other names were included to intentionally stir the pot people got emotional and the post was somewhat derailed lol.

Over the years this board has been all over the place with Draymond. Initially he was thought of as just a role player. Then there was a period a few years ago when people were arguing if he was a top 10 player in the entire NBA. That sentiment eventually somewhat cooled. But with this recent playoff run particularly since KD has been out his effectiveness and importance has come back to the forefront.

  

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Selassie I God
Member since Feb 21st 2006
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Thu May-30-19 12:00 AM

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58. "RE: Pippen and Russell? GTFOH!"
In response to Reply # 2


  

          

My thought exactly

____
Some will tell you that they love you but they've got an ulterior motive - Oh what a shame
They will tell you that they need you but they've got an ulterior motive - Personal gain

(c) Luciano


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fg0-qndkemo

  

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ThaTruth
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Tue May-28-19 09:41 AM

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3. "RE: Greatest role players in NBA history?"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

https://youtu.be/EsY6E-O7fY4?t=213

  

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CyrenYoung
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Tue May-28-19 09:52 AM

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6. "so disrespectful..."
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

..lol.


*skatin' the rings of saturn*


..and miles to go before i sleep...

  

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legsdiamond
Member since May 05th 2011
62694 posts
Tue May-28-19 10:54 AM

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9. "I picked Big Shot Bob in my head before I clicked the post thread "
In response to Reply # 0


          

I didn’t even look at the other people on the list

Pippen? The fuck kinda definition do you have for role players?

ThaLie

shut up already, damn

  

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ThaTruth
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Tue May-28-19 11:08 AM

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15. "RE: I picked Big Shot Bob in my head before I clicked the post thread "
In response to Reply # 9


  

          

>I didn’t even look at the other people on the list
>
>Pippen? The fuck kinda definition do you have for role
>players?

reply #5

  

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DJR
Member since Jan 01st 2005
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Tue May-28-19 12:04 PM

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25. "Pip led the Bulls in points, assists, steals in 94 and was 2nd in reb."
In response to Reply # 15


  

          

That’s a role player?

  

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ThaTruth
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Tue May-28-19 12:34 PM

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27. "And lost in the 2nd round..."
In response to Reply # 25


  

          

>That’s a role player?

  

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DJR
Member since Jan 01st 2005
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Tue May-28-19 02:59 PM

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36. "So? Anthony Davis a role player?"
In response to Reply # 27
Tue May-28-19 03:00 PM by DJR

  

          

Pippen in Portland after the back problems was a role player. He was one of the 10 best players in the league for a good 5-6 years, in his prime.

  

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ThaTruth
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Tue May-28-19 03:17 PM

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40. "he's a non-MF factor right now"
In response to Reply # 36


  

          

  

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DJR
Member since Jan 01st 2005
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Tue May-28-19 03:55 PM

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43. "so was Dream once his whole supporting cast was booted for coke "
In response to Reply # 40


  

          

The narrative got kinda negative on him when those early 90s Rockets teams were doing nothing. That changed pretty quick....and not because he got any better.

  

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Amritsar
Member since Jan 18th 2008
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Tue May-28-19 10:59 AM

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11. "not every thought needs a new post"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

_______________________________________________
"Ran through enough dope for Castro to build schools in Cuba. Teach ya kids how to read and write. And use the Ruger."

  

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LegacyNS
Member since Jan 16th 2004
37956 posts
Tue May-28-19 11:00 AM

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12. "haha"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
<---- 5....
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dlgiritpmfo

=======================================

  

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soulfunk
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Tue May-28-19 11:06 AM

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13. "Might as well list Jordan and Bron lol..."
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

  

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ThaTruth
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Tue May-28-19 11:10 AM

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16. "those are 2 of the top 5 players in NBA history, are any of the players...."
In response to Reply # 13


  

          

listed, outside of the grossly overrated Bill Russell, anywhere near that conversation?

  

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soulfunk
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Tue May-28-19 11:32 AM

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21. "*tips my cap*"
In response to Reply # 16


  

          

This whole post is quality mad-making. Woulda done numbers in OKS's golden era. Cats are way too cynical now to take good agenda-bait...

>outside of the grossly overrated Bill Russell,


  

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pretentious username
Member since Jun 18th 2010
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Tue May-28-19 12:54 PM

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28. "LMFAO"
In response to Reply # 16


  

          

>listed, outside of the grossly overrated Bill Russell,
>anywhere near that conversation?

anyone outside of the top 5 is a role player now. What a take! That includes Kobe btw.

  

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ThaTruth
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Tue May-28-19 01:14 PM

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33. "RE: LMFAO"
In response to Reply # 28


  

          

>>listed, outside of the grossly overrated Bill Russell,
>>anywhere near that conversation?
>
>anyone outside of the top 5 is a role player now. What a take!
>That includes Kobe btw.

Which part of “near the conversation” do you not understand? Those other players(sans Russell) aren’t even in the top 25

  

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Oak27
Member since Apr 17th 2005
11926 posts
Tue May-28-19 03:57 PM

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45. "Kobe does have 3 rings as a role player"
In response to Reply # 28


          

  

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TheRealBillyOcean
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Tue May-28-19 11:14 AM

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17. "Truth found a way to get paid per post on OKS?"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

<---https://www.amazon.com/dp/B01DL9AVTQ

  

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ThaTruth
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Tue May-28-19 11:25 AM

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18. "it seems like that but no the board is just wack now stuff stays on the...."
In response to Reply # 17


  

          

first page for almost a week

  

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TheRealBillyOcean
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Tue May-28-19 11:47 AM

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24. "That’s true too."
In response to Reply # 18


  

          

<---https://www.amazon.com/dp/B01DL9AVTQ

  

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bentagain
Member since Mar 19th 2008
14430 posts
Tue May-28-19 11:26 AM

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19. "Fuchsia = Worm"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

---------------------------------------------------------------

If you can't understand it without an explanation

you can't understand it with an explanation

  

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ThaTruth
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Tue May-28-19 11:28 AM

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20. "I thought about putting him in there"
In response to Reply # 19


  

          

  

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soulfunk
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Tue May-28-19 11:33 AM

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22. "^^^^correct answer"
In response to Reply # 19


  

          

  

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Marbles
Member since Oct 19th 2004
21344 posts
Tue May-28-19 12:18 PM

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26. "He was the 1st one that came to my mind too"
In response to Reply # 19


  

          


But then I got thrown off by the options in this poll.

  

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ThaTruth
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Tue May-28-19 11:35 AM

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23. "when y'all are done clutching your pearls, if Draymond gets 4 out of 5....."
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

is he on Scottie Pippen's level?

  

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pretentious username
Member since Jun 18th 2010
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Tue May-28-19 12:55 PM

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29. "he needs to get to 11"
In response to Reply # 23


  

          

to get on the same level as the greatest role player of all-time Bill Russell

  

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Numba_33
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17162 posts
Tue May-28-19 01:03 PM

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30. "That's a pretty good answer."
In response to Reply # 29


  

          

"Sean sparks like John Starks, nah, Sean ball like John Wall" - Rest In Power Forever Sean Price.

  

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guru0509
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Tue May-28-19 01:10 PM

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31. "Lmao "
In response to Reply # 29


  

          

>to get on the same level as the greatest role player of
>all-time Bill Russell

-------------------
I wanna go to where the martyrs went
the brown figures on the walls of my apart-a-ment...

  

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ThaTruth
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Tue May-28-19 01:11 PM

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32. "The question was about Draymond and Scottie, get out your punk ass..."
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Boston feelings

  

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Amritsar
Member since Jan 18th 2008
29133 posts
Thu May-30-19 10:47 AM

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60. "LOLLL"
In response to Reply # 29


  

          

_______________________________________________
"Ran through enough dope for Castro to build schools in Cuba. Teach ya kids how to read and write. And use the Ruger."

  

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DJR
Member since Jan 01st 2005
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Tue May-28-19 03:02 PM

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38. "No"
In response to Reply # 23


  

          

He’s not as good of a player.

  

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ThaTruth
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Tue May-28-19 01:34 PM

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34. "Bill Russell: An Overrated NBA Legend"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

https://bleacherreport.com/articles/441840-bill-russell-an-overrated-nba-legend

Bill Russell: An Overrated NBA Legend
ETHAN S
AUGUST 23, 2010


Bill Russell is an NBA legend. His legacy is built on a foundation of winning 11 championships in 13 playing seasons, making him the greatest winner in U.S. professional team sports history.

Over his illustrious career, Russell averaged 15.1 ppg, 22.5 rpg, and 4.3 apg. He earned five MVPs, 12 all-star team berths, and won an Olympic gold medal in 1956. If the NBA had always given them out, Russell most likely would have won at least a half dozen Finals MVP awards too.

One of the smartest players in league history, Bill Russell controlled games via defensive backboard domination. He was a master at blocking shots in a way so that either he or a teammate could grab the loose ball. Along with stopping the opposing team from scoring, this ignited the Celtics’ fast break offense.


Much of the impact Russell had on the game was psychological. When thinking about the effect on the opposition by stopping them and igniting the fast break, Russell remarked, “Yes, we did that to you. And if you come back, we'll do it again.”

With all of the accolades, the Professional Basketball Writers Association of America declared Bill Russell to be the “Greatest Player in the History of the NBA” in 1980. While most people believe that Michael Jordan has since taken the title of “Greatest of All-Time”, many still regard Bill Russell as both the second best player of all-time and the greatest center ever.

Yet, despite all of the accomplishments, Russell deserves neither of these titles. He may be the greatest winner in NBA history, but Bill Russell is also one of the league's most overrated players.

The fairest way to rank NBA players is to consider their overall game—both offensively and defensively, championships won, and the ability to play in any era and still dominate. The best players can dominate both ends of the court and win multiple championships (to prove that winning the first time wasn’t a fluke).



Winning



No one can take away Russell’s 11 rings, but are his 11 championships more impressive than Jordan’s six or Magic Johnson’s five? A closer look proves that this isn’t necessarily the case.

Russell played in an era where there were fewer NBA teams—about 10. While some may argue that each team had more concentrated talent, the level of talent does not compare to that of today’s game.


Whereas in the modern era the NBA draws a larger pool of talent from around the country and internationally because of the exorbitant salaries, this was not the case back in the 1950s and 1960s. Salaries were small—so small that many players held second jobs during the offseason to support their families.

In addition to having fewer teams, there were fewer playoff rounds and the top teams (like the Celtics) often got first round byes. Whereas Jordan and Magic had to win 15 playoff games to win a title (and often play upwards of 20 games or more), Russell played between 10 and 14 games to win each of his first eight championships.

By playing fewer postseason games, combined with shorter NBA seasons, this gave Russell a distinct advantage in durability over Jordan and Magic in accumulating wear and tear.

Russell’s teams also were stacked with future Hall of Famers and All-Stars, including John Havlicek, Bob Cousy, Sam Jones, Tom Heinsohn, KC Jones, and Bill Sharman. The Celtics teams had far superior talent overall than any other team during his era. And despite all of this talent, Boston barely beat the Lakers in three separate finals, each in seven games.

In four game seven wins against teams led by Wilt Chamberlain, Boston won by a combined nine points. When Boston finally met up with a team that was just as talented—a 1967 Philadelphia 76ers cast that included Chamberlain, Hal Greer, Chet Walker, and Billy Cunningham—the Celtics were unable to win.


It is also arguable that it would be impossible for a team to win eight titles in a row today. This is due to longer seasons, more travel requirements, longer playoff rounds, and rule changes that make it nearly impossible to acquire the talent disparity enjoyed by Russell’s Celtics teams.

Even though Bill Russell remains one of the greatest winners, to put his winning automatically ahead of legends like Jordan and Magic may be a naïve comparison.



Offense



At first glance, Bill Russell’s offensive stats can be seen as mediocre. He didn’t exactly dominate offensively, scoring 15.1 ppg while making 44% of his field goals and 56% of his free throws. One may make an argument that he played more of a team game and was not required to score as much with a cast of other all-stars. Yet, careful analysis of his offensive game shows a different picture.

It is difficult at best to compare different NBA eras, so let’s look at some facts. During the first eight years of Russell’s career, the foul lane in the NBA was only 12 feet wide. After the NBA widened the lane to 16 feet in 1964, Bill Russell only averaged 12.6 ppg—hardly stellar numbers.

Russell had incredible athletic ability and vertical leap, but he had an immense advantage over players of his era, who were smaller, weaker, and less athletic than players today. When Wilt Chamberlain entered the NBA in 1960, there were only four players in the league that were taller than 6-8 (including Wilt at 7-1 and Russell at 6-9).


With all of the offensive rebounds Russell grabbed, his height advantage, and his athletic superiority over opposing players, he should have been able to score more dominantly. In today’s game going against taller and stronger players on a nightly basis, he would not have held these advantages.

Lastly, let’s consider the pace of the game. During the late 1950s and 1960s, NBA teams played in a run-and-gun style offense. The early 1960s was the highest scoring environment in NBA history. In 1961-62, the average team scored 118.8 ppg, the highest in the league’s history.

Furthermore, the average team in the 1962 season had an average of 152 ball possessions. Conversely, over the past two decades in the NBA, teams have averaged about 90-100 possessions per game. Given that this difference gave players during that era 50 percent more opportunities to score, this would give Russell an adjusted scoring average of about 10 ppg in today’s game. And that’s without considering having a 16-foot foul lane and competing against taller players.



Defense



Finally, let’s ponder over Russell’s defense and how it would translate into today’s NBA game. Unfortunately, blocked shots were not recorded during Russell’s career. While Russell was a menace towards opposing teams with his blocking ability, his 6-9, 220 pound frame would likely mean he would be a power forward today.

While Russell today could have bulked up and played a similar role as Ben Wallace as an undersized but strong center, it’s hard to see other teams fearing him more than Big Ben or other top centers of the past few decades, including Hakeem Olajuwon, Alonzo Mourning, Dwight Howard, and Dikembe Mutombo. In addition, each of these centers had between one and four inches on Russell.


Part of the difference between the NBA in the 1960s and today is due to game strategy. With a three-point line, teams today value outside shooters and often design plays for a three-point shot. In the early decades of the league, the whole purpose of each possession was to get a shot as close to the basket as possible.

The main issue with this strategy is that centers like Russell and Chamberlain could roam the paint waiting for dozens of more shots to block and intimidate. Hence, the effect of a tall and athletic defensive center was greater over the course of a game.

Wilt Chamberlain was recorded blocking 28 shots in a single game. It is doubtful that Wilt, Russell, or any player could come anywhere close to matching similar totals today. Without considering the height disadvantage compared to Olajuwon and Mutombo, I’ll give Russell the benefit of the doubt by thinking he would have similar block totals today—about three bpg.

The other area Russell dominated defensively was on the glass with his rebounding. His 22.5 rpg average ranks second only to Wilt Chamberlain. Of the 24 forty rebound games in NBA history, Russell owns eight of them.

When the higher ball possession rate argument is factored in, one can clearly see how rebounding totals were inflated compared to today. More scoring possessions led to more rebound opportunities. In addition, teams shot below a 40 percent rate in the late 1950s and not much more efficient after that, also leading to more rebounds.


Over the past three decades, team rebounding averages have been in the low to mid 40s. By contrast, from 1956 until 1968, teams averaged between 58 and 66 rebounds per game. This alone would bring Russell’s rebound average today down by about a third, to around 15-16 rpg.

Looking at the style of game play with shorter shots being taken, most rebounds were also shorter (as long shots like three-point attempts create long rebounds). Being among the tallest and most athletic players during the era, players such as Chamberlain and Russell had an advantage in grabbing those plentiful short rebounds.

In fact, any player that had a tremendous athletic ability rebounded at an impressive clip. For example, Elgin Baylor grabbed 19.8 rpg in 1961, even though he was listed at 6-5. Even more current elite rebounders such as Charles Barkley (6-6) and Dennis Rodman (6-8) were unable to match this statistic.

Rodman, for instance, was perhaps the best ever at positioning himself for rebounds and boxing out opponents. Yet, due to other tall, athletic players and the style of the game (slower pace and longer rebounds), Rodman averaged over 18 rpg only twice. No other NBA player since has come close.

Russell was a smart, intense player. But all the films I have seen of him playing do not show him working as hard at positioning as Rodman did. In fact, Wilt Chamberlain set an NBA record by pulling down 55 boards while playing Russell and the Celtics.

Russell, in fact, never really “contained” Wilt defensively. In the 142 games they played against each other, Wilt still averaged 28.7 ppg and 28.7 rpg. Even though by an 88-74 count Russell’s team won, much of that can be attributed to the superior talent and coaching of the Celtics.

When adjusting for pace of the game and other players’ ability, Russell’s rebounding rate today might be similar to the averages of other top players—around 12-13 per game.



Conclusion



Bill Russell was a great winner, although he might not have won quite as much today. A dominant rebounder and defender and a strong-willed leader, Russell’s legacy on the court is long-lasting.

Using the “greatest of all-time” standard that I proposed, Russell cannot be considered in the elite because although he won multiple times and excelled at defense, he was not dominant offensively. Furthermore, if his game was translated into today (10 ppg, 12-13 rpg, and 3 bpg—numbers similar to Dikembe Mutombo’s career), overall Bill Russell would not have the same effect on the league.

I applaud Russell for changing the way the game was played and overcoming much adversity throughout his career, including racism. However, in comparison to other NBA legends, I could not fairly crown him as the second best player behind Jordan and the best NBA center.

  

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pretentious username
Member since Jun 18th 2010
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Tue May-28-19 03:56 PM

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44. "http://alanpaul.net/wp-content/uploads/2018/04/bill_russell_lifetime_ach..."
In response to Reply # 34


  

          

http://alanpaul.net/wp-content/uploads/2018/04/bill_russell_lifetime_achievement_fb.jpg

  

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Call It Anything
Member since Aug 13th 2005
10911 posts
Wed May-29-19 01:23 PM

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50. "This looks like fun"
In response to Reply # 34


  

          

>Using the “greatest of all-time” standard that I proposed,
>Russell cannot be considered in the elite because although he
>won multiple times and excelled at defense, he was not
>dominant offensively. Furthermore, if his game was translated
>into today (10 ppg, 12-13 rpg, and 3 bpg—numbers similar to
>Dikembe Mutombo’s career), overall Bill Russell would not
>have the same effect on the league.

Furthermore, if Steph Curry's game were translated into the 70s, the lack of a 3-point line, prevalance of very physical defense, and regression in medical technology in dealing with his ankle issues would have gave him a Tiny Archibald-like career. Overall Steph Curry would not have the same effect on the League.

  

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ThaTruth
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Wed May-29-19 02:23 PM

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52. "people always get their panties in a bun when I call out their sacred..."
In response to Reply # 50


  

          

cow but the numbers don't lie!

"But he's got 11 rings!"

Robert Horry has 7 and I don't think he's on anybody's GOAT list.

And I'm not saying Robert Horry is on the same level as Bill Russell but it just shows how funny and selective people are with the "rings" argument.

Kind of like Kobe could never be compared to Jordan unless he got 6. The all of a sudden Lebron was in the GOAT conversation with 3 lol.

  

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ConcreteCharlie
Member since Nov 21st 2002
71101 posts
Wed May-29-19 01:50 PM

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51. "Oh shit somebody take his keys"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

And you will know MY JACKET IS GOLD when I lay my vengeance upon thee.

  

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CyrenYoung
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Wed May-29-19 03:12 PM

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53. "https://images.app.goo.gl/EzP3Dz5YwfA7TBie9"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

https://images.app.goo.gl/EzP3Dz5YwfA7TBie9

This nigga drunk, try’na fight er’ybody LOL!



*skatin' the rings of saturn*


..and miles to go before i sleep...

  

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ThaTruth
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Wed May-29-19 03:16 PM

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54. "RE: https://images.app.goo.gl/EzP3Dz5YwfA7TBie9"
In response to Reply # 53


  

          

>https://images.app.goo.gl/EzP3Dz5YwfA7TBie9
>
>This nigga drunk, try’na fight er’ybody LOL!

I'm having fun, everybody else is getting MAD wanting to fight me for telling TheTruth lol

  

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CyrenYoung
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Wed May-29-19 03:19 PM

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55. "congrats on your archive formula!"
In response to Reply # 54


  

          


*skatin' the rings of saturn*


..and miles to go before i sleep...

  

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The Real
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Thu May-30-19 09:41 AM

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59. "Where is Vinnie Johnson?"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          


------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

  

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ThaTruth
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Thu May-30-19 10:49 AM

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61. "don't sleep on The Microwave!"
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