Although I do feel Aikman is grossly overrated but then again so Is Terry Bradshaw...

https://www.si.com/nfl/2019/05/24/donovan-mcnabb-troy-aikman-hall-of-fame?

Donovan McNabb: 'I Am a Hall of Famer'

By SCOOBY AXSON May 24, 2019

Former NFL quarterback Donovan McNabb says he deserves to be wearing a gold jacket and be enshrined in the Pro Football Hall of Fame.

McNabb made his argument to TMZ and focused his candidacy on one player.

“I’m not hesitating on that. I am a Hall of Famer. My numbers speak for themselves," McNabb said. "My numbers are better than Troy Aikman’s. But he has Super Bowl rings and he’s played with Hall of Famers as well.”

Aikman won three Super Bowl rings with the Dallas Cowboys, going 94-71 as a starter and was inducted in the Hall of Fame in 2006.

McNabb says that Hall of Fame voters devalue numbers and look at Super Bowl wins and All-Pro selections.

In 13 seasons with Philadelphia Eagles, Washington Redskins and Minnesota Vikings, McNabb had a 98-62-1 mark as a starting quarterback, and led the Eagles to five NFC Championship games and one Super Bowl appearance.

McNabb has been eligible for Pro Football Hall of Fame since 2017 and has never been named a finalist.

The arguments against him are all shockingly ignorant.

<---https://www.amazon.com/dp/B01DL9AVTQ

They all generally had better weapons. Warner especially, in the couple years he made the HOF off of.

<---https://www.amazon.com/dp/B01DL9AVTQ

Loved the guy but he never had that signature win/drive and he led some real choke jobs in the playoffs. They looked past the Bucs and of course his INT sealed the deal. They scored THREE POINTS against Carolina. They almost fucked up against Green Bay but Favre fun-balled one to Dawkins and gave them life. The 4th and 26 to FredEx was probably the closest thing to a shining moment McNabb had in the playoffs. Generally the defense carried them and then later they got McNabb weapons and it didn't get them over the hump. They left points on the field against the Pats and it killed them (TO balled in that game). Kinda the same thing against Arizona, they were too content and then played kind of a shitty second half. Go down the line. It makes it kind of laughable that he's talking about Super Bowls being overvalued and all-pro selections being overvalued. Those things eluded him for a reason. That said, he's the best quarterback the Eagles had in 85 years and he had some monster regular seasons, including with shitty receivers. He'd get my vote but to me it's a bad look that he's campaigning for himself and especially in this way.

And you will know MY JACKET IS GOLD when I lay my vengeance upon thee.

Moon was on some other shit. and had way more adversity to go through just to get a shot.

kelly was dope, but had some incredible weapons offensively and defensively. (i'd put vinage iggles defense up against bruce smith an nem, though).

warner? yeah. he was better.


peace & blessings,

x.

www.twitter.com/poetx

=========================================
I'm an advocate for working smarter, not harder. If you just
focus on working hard you end up making someone else rich and
not having much to show for it. (c) mad

I fuck with McNabb as a player but he had nothing on Moon.

Moon was more accurate. Had a bigger arm. Overcame more adversity. Was a high level player for MUCH longer. And was a better athlete to boot.

Warren Moon's problem was the NFL's rules had not caught up to the wide open passing game the Oilers ran. He was built for today's league.

I'm from the lost black tribe of Israel, the Yos

http://coolehmag.com/frontEnd/

He makes his case based on his numbers

https://www.pro-football-reference.com/leaders/pass_yds_career.htm

FTR, other QBs with similar numbers...not in the HOF;
Carson Palmer
Vinny Testaverde
Drew Bledsoe
Dave Krieg
Boomer Esiason

Further, there are currently active QBs with similar/better numbers;
Drew Brees
Tom Brady
Ben Roethlisberger
Eli Manning
Phillip Rivers
Matt Ryan
Aaron Rodgers
Matthew Stafford

That is...if you set the bar at McNabb...half the hall and induction classes will be QBs

All of these guys can't get in

No problem at all with rings being the filter

I expect there to be a couple of classes without QBs

in anticipation of the Brees' et al going in

Fuck McNabb and anybody giving him a platform.

---------------------------------------------------------------

If you can't understand it without an explanation

you can't understand it with an explanation

Numbers get tricky when you compare different eras.

Those first 5 you named : Bledsoe, Kreig, Palmer, Testeverde, and Esiason all made either 2, 3, or 4 pro bowls. McNabb made 6. I’m not saying pro bowls alone should be the gauge, but it’s a fairly good indicator of how someone rated at their position in their era.

All that to say: McNabb was clearly better than all those guys.

Making the case for him: one of the best QB’s of his era, numbers are there, no SB’s but consistently very good team success, and he mostly carried those offenses. I’m trying to think of a Hall of fame QB who didn’t have more offensive talent to play with at the skill positions.

Jim Rice had a good portion of a huge fan base behind him. Tim Raines had a few very dedicated Montreal writers and some analytics nerds backing him. McNabb won't get that much of either party's support I bet. A lot of Eagles fans treated him unfairly, let's face it there was plenty of racism there and the usual, uh, surliness (read: impatience, unreasonableness and stupidity). Then a lot of people were, in my view rightfully, disappointed by his inability to win even one Super Bowl with all those playoff appearances.


>https://www.pro-football-reference.com/leaders/pass_yds_career.htm
>
>FTR, other QBs with similar numbers...not in the HOF;
>Carson Palmer
>Vinny Testaverde
>Drew Bledsoe
>Dave Krieg
>Boomer Esiason

None of those guys will ever be in the HOF and I think only a couple maybe had a chance at one point in their career. Passing yardage was inflated as early as the 80s and today it's inflated AF. That alone won't get you in. But McNabb was largely efficient, he could make plays with his feet (spectacularly early in his career) and he has plenty of team success behind him if not the BIG game.

>Further, there are currently active QBs with similar/better
>numbers;
>Drew Brees
>Tom Brady
>Ben Roethlisberger
>Eli Manning
>Phillip Rivers
>Matt Ryan
>Aaron Rodgers
>Matthew Stafford


>All of these guys can't get in

Most of those guys will get in though. Brees, Brady, Ben and Rodgers are locks. Manning and Rivers have very good chances, especially factoring in Manning's two rings and his market. Ryan is borderline. Stafford won't make it but Jesus he won nothing.

I think QBs will still get a lot of love from the HOF and as such he has a decent case.

And you will know MY JACKET IS GOLD when I lay my vengeance upon thee.

they couldnt wait to pull the plug on him for whoever the white backup was at the time.

easily one of the least appreciated qbs ever. dude was routinely carrying the offense to conf finals with niggas like james thrash as his #1 wr.

And all we get is bitching and moaning from Eagles
fans.

Easily the worst fans in sports.

Vick had *two* pro bowl caliber receivers AND a pro-bowl
caliber tight end *and* a young rising star running back.

The way Vick got treated relative to McNabb is silly.

Jackson, Maclin, Celek are the guys you're talking about and they all played with McNabb also. He had Pro Bowl linemen. Lewis was a very good, PB tight end. Obviously the year with Owens, Owens balled and in the Super Bowl he more than held up his end of the bargain when McNabb didn't. Overall he had shitty receivers but it's not like "OH IF ONLY HE HAD HELP" because sometimes he did have it. What those years confirmed is that the defense was the key to their success, even though McNabb was a very good quarterback.

And you will know MY JACKET IS GOLD when I lay my vengeance upon thee.

I'll wait.

in huge games. Warner won both even though the second time he was like 63 years old. Warner I always found kind of annoying and of course I loved McNabb but are we really trying to make that a poll? I was more addressing what you said about McNabb vs Vick in terms of the help each guy had.

And you will know MY JACKET IS GOLD when I lay my vengeance upon thee.

they finally got Djack Maclin etc but Andy was still the coach he didn't play with those guys that long and even in the game he brought them all the way back from a 3 touchdown hole to a lead in the 4th quarter and a 4th down Kevin Curtis drop away from staying on the field and possibly winning the game.

A majority of McNabb's career was Na Brown, James Thrash, Todd Pinkston, type players and as good as Brian Westbrook was he was injured in 2 of the 4 earlier NFC championship finals runs.

Look at Andy Reid now still being out coached and he has another guy with a big arm like Mahomes.

<----

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(HIP HOP)
http://aquil.bandcamp.com

Seems like a pretty fair comparison to me and vis-a-vis Warner, I mean who was more at the "tail end" in the 09 NFC title game? We know he had shitty receivers for most of his career but let's not make him out to be Archie Manning or something.

And you will know MY JACKET IS GOLD when I lay my vengeance upon thee.

No, they don't

That offense was predicated on passing accuracy

We saw the outcome when McNabb was replaced

AJ Feeley whoo ride

Vick won comeback player of the year

Foles set a record for efficiency

...and when he lost to Warner the 2nd time in AZ, we had westbrook, celek, lewis and jackson...as offensive weapons

HOFers don't need plea cops.

---------------------------------------------------------------

If you can't understand it without an explanation

you can't understand it with an explanation

>No, they don't
>
>That offense was predicated on passing accuracy

Bwahahahaha the single greatest thing about that
offense was how it got everyone OPEN:

1) greatest receiver out of the backfield in histroy

2) 2 of the 10 best route runners EVER

It was predicated on route running


>We saw the outcome when McNabb was replaced
>
>AJ Feeley whoo ride

Ummmm Trent Green was playing VERY well before he got
hurt and Warner took the job....LOTS of QBs could have
balled the fuck out in that offense

>Vick won comeback player of the year

With Pro bowlers...and still couldn't carry
them through the playoffs the way McNabb did
with FREDEX AND PINKSTON

>Foles set a record for efficiency

Bwahhaa like literally 10 years later, WTF are
you talking about idiot

with THAT StL team

---------------------------------------------------------------

If you can't understand it without an explanation

you can't understand it with an explanation

“So back we go to these questions — friendship, character… ethics.”

jamie martin completed 70% of his passes in that offense.

>jamie martin completed 70% of his passes in that offense.

and he was a Pro Bowl MVP running Andy Reid's offense.

>jamie martin completed 70% of his passes in that offense.

Jamie Martin had 1 start where he completed more that 70% of his passes.

we saw their entire careers. mcnabb is one of my five favorite players ever but not on my homer-ist days could i make the case he was a better passer than warner. early in his career his feet gave him an edge that warner didn't have but when he started getting banged up he stopped running. consistency was also an issue. i remember you could get a good feel for how his day would go early in the game. if he was loose and moving, he would cook. plenty of times he just threw balls at guys' feet though.

both were good at avoiding turnovers but mcnabb had to overcompensate to do it. warner threw a really beautiful ball and really consistently. his skills also stayed in tact when he started to slip physically. mcnabb's fall-off was abrupt AF.

And you will know MY JACKET IS GOLD when I lay my vengeance upon thee.

no problems with the latter being in the HOF. during his peak he was the most dangerous player in the NFC.

the former is a bit jaded/crazy, however. what's funny is his numbers aren't even *that* good relative to his era -- career 59% passer, only accounted for 30 TD *once* in his career -- but you have to take them in the context of his situation.

--------

<--- Big Baller World Order

Andy fucked off his prime. but McNabb did, also, to a lesser extent. and the TO fuckery really did him in. that was wild unfortunate.

realistically, he ain't going. he had damn good, very respectable numbers for a long ass time, but has the following liabilities:

- his teammates don't really fuck w/ him (at least not universally)
- never got the SB (95% andy's fault, but he overcorrected on that 'not running' shit, too)
- fans in philly don't really fuck w/ him. hard af being a star athlete in philly, let alone a black QB. by the time the clocked turned on that shit #5 had done enough to give the fanbase other reasons to be tired of him
- he caught them DUIs after his playing career was over, which fucks up the 'he's a good dude, let him in' angle, despite him having maintained a meticulous and exemplary off the field record during his playing days

a couple of the above in his favor and he MIGHT have a fighting chance. but that's too much to overcome.

shame, because he was absolutely one of the top 5 talents in the league for most of his career. playing with the trashest WRs and a coach that got outcoached every. damn. time. on a big stage.







peace & blessings,

x.

www.twitter.com/poetx

=========================================
I'm an advocate for working smarter, not harder. If you just
focus on working hard you end up making someone else rich and
not having much to show for it. (c) mad

We'll see if anyone takes up for him. Sometimes outsiders do it. It also depends on what happens to other guys in similar situations. If Rivers gets in, I definitely think McNabb should and vice versa.

And you will know MY JACKET IS GOLD when I lay my vengeance upon thee.

it wasn't uncommon for him to vomit before games. Was it a medical issue, was it nerves, or was it a poor diet.

I could be wrong but McNabb never seemed like a guy that really worked extra hard on his conditioning. Could that be the difference between the Hall of Fame and the Hall of Very Good?

After breaking like a 50 yard run on 4th and long. A couple plays later they had to burn a timeout because he was puking. He ended up throwing a TD on the last play of the game to win it though, so the puking there was largely forgotten.

Hard to know what it was...McNabb in college was insanely athletic and ran all the time, scrambled and extended plays all the time, ran the option often, etc. Would be hard to believe it was conditioning if he did it as a 22 year old who could seemingly run all day.

>After breaking like a 50 yard run on 4th and long. A couple
>plays later they had to burn a timeout because he was puking.
>He ended up throwing a TD on the last play of the game to win
>it though, so the puking there was largely forgotten.
>
>Hard to know what it was...McNabb in college was insanely
>athletic and ran all the time, scrambled and extended plays
>all the time, ran the option often, etc. Would be hard to
>believe it was conditioning if he did it as a 22 year old who
>could seemingly run all day.

I know he was an insane athlete, even those guys particularly once they start to get older have to watch what they eat and work on conditioning as well. I think part of the problem with some guys they that is they rely so much on their insane athleticism when they're younger and when they're older the shortcuts they take start to catch up with them.

It could be he was giving putting out so much effort that his body was exhausted.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

---------------------------------------------------------------

If you can't understand it without an explanation

you can't understand it with an explanation

The two centers on the team both got hurt/fouled out and he was pressed into emergency duty. Blocked Jahidi White’s shot too. At only 6’2, his athleticism was next level back then.

That was the only run in a game that mattered that I ever remember him getting.

it was something like 125 on the field that day.

could be a combination of things. glenn hall used to throw up before every game. there was some nasty ass dlinemen on the broncos that could throw up on command. who knows?

And you will know MY JACKET IS GOLD when I lay my vengeance upon thee.

Shit is nasty.

Maybe it’s nerves but more than likely it’s a combination of things.

****************
TBH the fact that you're even a mod here fits squarely within Jag's narrative of OK-sanctioned aggression, bullying, and toxicity. *shrug*

i've had a few stand-up gigs where I puked sometime before the show and it cleared my mind.

n/m

My movies: http://russellhainline.com
My movie reviews: https://letterboxd.com/RussellHFilm/
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he certainly was not a good leader, he whined a lot and threw other people under the bus. that's why people don't like him. the eagles should have won the year they went to the Super Bowl, McNabb threw 3 pics in that game. definitely a great athlete, put up big numbers, but falls a little short imo.

“So back we go to these questions — friendship, character… ethics.”

tampa, carolina, really even against atlanta the defense did the job. against the pats and cardinals he had opportunities and they left points on the field. owens was possessed in that super bowl but he couldn't make it happen. that team was fucking loaded, the best roster the eagles ever had and yes i am including their three NFL champion teams and the super bowl team. new england was a formidable opponent but it's hard to make the "help" argument with that one.

And you will know MY JACKET IS GOLD when I lay my vengeance upon thee.

and they got beat by Joe Juevicious (or however you spell it) vs Levon Kirkland over the middle.

I was at the Carolina game RICKY MANNING JR made a career off of punking Todd Pinkston and James 4th wr praise god for a 4 yard out Thrash. (Westbrook was also injuried)

Superbowl (SPY GATE SEE THE THIRD QUARTER defense vs Patriots)

McNabb over compensated for the weaknesses of Andy Reid's GM skills and when it wasn't his GM skills it was his coaching.

<----

Soundcloud.com/aquil84

(HIP HOP)
http://aquil.bandcamp.com

>and they got beat by Joe Juevicious (or however you spell it)
>vs Levon Kirkland over the middle.

Tampa had one of the best defenses yet the Eagles had beaten them like six times in a row coming into the game and scored first in the game. As a group they took them lightly and Tampa's O-line was probably what won them the game. Brad Johnson didn't get touched. Their guys were gullier in the trenches. McNabb could have had that signature drive, instead Ronde Barber is the guy who became immortal.

>I was at the Carolina game RICKY MANNING JR made a career off
>of punking Todd Pinkston and James 4th wr praise god for a 4
>yard out Thrash. (Westbrook was also injuried)

They had a nice mix of backs, I am not buying this Westbrook thing. Pinkston was terrible in the game, yes, and the tackling was poor but I am not going to fault the defense in a game where they give up 14 points. At one and probably two of McNabb's INTs were Pinkston's fault, which is why I didn't bring them up. But if you score *three* points in an NFC title game, yeah, your quarterback played like ass. It was true for Peyton Manning (20-3 loss to Pats), and it was true for McNabb.

>Superbowl (SPY GATE SEE THE THIRD QUARTER defense vs
>Patriots)

Oh the THEY CHEATED! plea. Before the third quarter even came around the Eagles left points on the field in the first half. Owens played possessed in that game on a bad ankle. Please.

>McNabb over compensated for the weaknesses of Andy Reid's GM
>skills and when it wasn't his GM skills it was his coaching.

Reid and McNabb are defined by the same word and that word is ALMOST.

And you will know MY JACKET IS GOLD when I lay my vengeance upon thee.

Especially since the Eagles have finally won one.

When you think about top QBs and the talent they have around them, McNabb has definitely had one of the weaker casts. TO's first year proved that with help, Dono could ball out number wise, 31 TD and 8 INT or something.

Looking at all those "chokes," can't help but see who his receivers were and recognize were they better, perhaps the team isn't even in "choke" position.

Funny thing about the SB, Spygate notwithstanding, Pats won by running a balanced offense, Eagles were doing Andy Ball and we KNOW how effective that has been. Don't take my word for it, go back and check NE's run/pass selection and Philly's.

Dono is not perfect and yes, were he greater, perhaps he could have eked out more playoff wins. But I'm having a hard time coming up with a Super Bowl winning QB who did more with less, in terms of defense and solid, reliable receivers. The Pats guys may not have been Megatron esque, but they ran good routes and could catch.


>Although I do feel Aikman is grossly overrated but then again
>so Is Terry Bradshaw...
>
>https://www.si.com/nfl/2019/05/24/donovan-mcnabb-troy-aikman-hall-of-fame?
>
>Donovan McNabb: 'I Am a Hall of Famer'
>
>By SCOOBY AXSON May 24, 2019
>
>Former NFL quarterback Donovan McNabb says he deserves to be
>wearing a gold jacket and be enshrined in the Pro Football
>Hall of Fame.
>
>McNabb made his argument to TMZ and focused his candidacy on
>one player.
>
>“I’m not hesitating on that. I am a Hall of Famer. My
>numbers speak for themselves," McNabb said. "My numbers are
>better than Troy Aikman’s. But he has Super Bowl rings and
>he’s played with Hall of Famers as well.”
>
>Aikman won three Super Bowl rings with the Dallas Cowboys,
>going 94-71 as a starter and was inducted in the Hall of Fame
>in 2006.
>
>McNabb says that Hall of Fame voters devalue numbers and look
>at Super Bowl wins and All-Pro selections.
>
>In 13 seasons with Philadelphia Eagles, Washington Redskins
>and Minnesota Vikings, McNabb had a 98-62-1 mark as a starting
>quarterback, and led the Eagles to five NFC Championship games
>and one Super Bowl appearance.
>
>McNabb has been eligible for Pro Football Hall of Fame since
>2017 and has never been named a finalist.