Has to be top 5 polarizing figures on OKS basketball convos.

So what happens if the C's lose tonight?

Kendrick Perkins went in:

Listen if y'all think that me and my boy @paulpierce34 was going to go against the grain in this series y'all crazy! Win, lose or draw I was riding with the Bean! Just realized that Kyrie not a Batman! Hell @isaiahthomas took the Cs to the ECF! Hell they got there last year! 🤷🏾‍♂️

— Kendrick Perkins (@KendrickPerkins) May 7, 2019

Yeah, Kyrie got a ring and was instrumental in it but is he a true alpha? Or is he a fake franchise player? Is it that he's just not happy in Boston or is it that he just doesn't have the mental fortitude to lead a team?

When the trade went down, me and Basa chopped it up in the post:

http://board.okayplayer.com/okp.php?az=show_topic&forum=8&topic_id=2620635&mesg_id=2620635&listing_type=search#2620813

So what is it now? Bad chemistry? Overrating of Stevens? Too many egos? Injuries? Bad management (maybe Ainge should have moved a few pieces to make things fit better)?

Or does this all circle back to Kyrie? He's 27, right in the middle of his prime, perennial allstar, hit movie under his belt, amazing skillset, ring. Shouldn't he be able to lead THIS cast to the finals at minimum?

Or are we greasing the frying pan?

And what happens if they lose 4-1 to the Bucks, who's only improvements last offseason was hiring Coach Bud and moving into a new arena (all things that no one thought would make them better than the Celtics this year). Adding Hill and Niko mid season shouldn't have done it either.

http://board.okayplayer.com/okp.php?az=show_topic&forum=8&topic_id=2675715&mesg_id=2675715&listing_type=search

https://media.tenor.com/images/24a81c6b4a59269350112f76a4744acd/tenor.gif

____________

i will say that his attitude and body language havent looked great, but im not sure *this* series tells us anything definitively

WHAT A TIME TO BE ALIVE

Rox lost last year with leagues best rec (though we can argue the CP3 injury).

Raps had best record in the East, got swept. And again, no one thought Mil was a 1 seed to start the year.

____________

>And again, no
>one thought Mil was a 1 seed to start the year.

Preseason rankings/projections are meaningless in every sport. In every sport, reality and projections change-- especially in a season as long as the NBA's. You can make fun of a team for falling short of preseason expectations, but you can't let that determine what the expectations in the present reality are. No one would honestly favor the Celtics over the Bucks in May 2019.

Also, the Bucks were a -330 favorite in Vegas to win this series before Game 1. That's... a sizable favorite. Meanwhile, the Warriors were a -185 favorite over the Rockets last year. The Raptors were favored over the Cavs, but only at -190. It's hard to compare those three series given how different the situations were for all three of the best-record teams.

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What a team is expected to do coming into the season largely depends on past performance and recent developments. Mil was not a 'best record in the league' projection for anyone really. Their coach got the best out of them but that doesn't mean they are a better team in a best out of 7 than all the teams with worse records. Match ups matter. They could very well lose to any of the remaining top 6 teams, easily in my opinion.

And I personally think Boston is the more talented team.

____________

Vegas playoff series odds have to do with 82+ games this season, including several head-to-head matchup considerations. They have to do with far more recent data gathered.

Preseason projections take the previous season's results and try to project through roster changes, through health variance, through experience growth and/or regression-- so many things.

You know that Vegas odds today are more reflective of the present reality than preseason projections. Come on now, lol. That doesn't mean that what Vegas predicts will come to pass... but it's far more likely that the results reflect the Vegas odds than odds created preseason. FAR more likely.

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I'm just saying...it's all conjecture until it happens. The talent has to deliver.

But I'll concede here. IMO Boston is still the more talented team and thus, should have won or at minimum, put up more of a challenge.

____________

however, when it comes to the Celtics, I think Kyrie is one of many issues. We might need to get the frying pan out for Brad Stevens. Hayward... either ain't ready or ain't working in the Cs offense

he's had headlines all season in one way or another and by all accounts, this was supposed to be 'his' team.

Has Stevens gotten worse this year? In what ways? Or was it more his team management as it pertained to making these guys fit together?

I give Hayward a 1yr window. Takes about a yr to get fully back from a major injury. That'll be the start of next season for him.

____________

That’s the first thing I think of whenever I see his name. Or Dula saying that he looks like he beats his kids over losing a mitten.

That said, the Bucks just being a better team pretty much absolves Kyrie from being fried. Don’t know if he could/should be expected to beat this team.

That said, he should stay on the C’s.

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>That said, the Bucks just being a better team pretty much
>absolves Kyrie from being fried. Don’t know if he
>could/should be expected to beat this team.

These things have never stopped a frying tho.

____________

>>That said, the Bucks just being a better team pretty much
>>absolves Kyrie from being fried. Don’t know if he
>>could/should be expected to beat this team.
>
>These things have never stopped a frying tho.

I just don't think Kyrie should have been expected to lead the C's to victory over this Bucks team. I never would've been surprised by a C's do win (though that ship appears to have sailed), but believing that if #4 seed doesn't beat a #1 seed that it's a failure on Kyrie's part and a referendum on whether or not he's "Batman" (a term that I hate) is kind of unreasonable.

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you know that's on the mind of everybody in that locker room.

No one would be surprised if the C's beat Mil and whoever comes out of the Tor/Phil series.

____________

Hell, the Lakers were "expected" to make the play-offs. No one "expected" the Clippers to make the play-offs and look as good as they did. Things change during the season and teams gotta make the best of it. Improvise, adapt to the environment, Darwin, shit happens, I-Ching, whatever man. They gotta roll with it

>No one would be surprised if the C's beat Mil and whoever
>comes out of the Tor/Phil series.

Not being surprised if it happens and expecting it to happen are two very different things. The Bucks are just the better team. If Toronto ends up beating Philly and then loses to Mil., I won't fry Leonard either.

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As most feel he helped provoke their nosedive with his "I'd love to play with AD" comments and then Magic trying to trade the whole team to get him.

And then he played like crap on defense most of the year but didn't take accountability for it and alienated himself from some of his team. His only saving grace was that 18 game injury he sustained.

So expectations vs how someone helped nosedive those expectations has been fair game in the past. Just saying.

____________

last year either. that has to play a factor too.

Y'all buy those labels, I was born supreme

the bucks are better than the celtics. this team hasn't been as strong as we thought. the chemistry is fucked up. this aint all on Kyrie.

Heyward coming back from injury, jason being less consistent, etc. Kyrie gets some of the blame, but the bucks are too much for these celtics.

Y'all buy those labels, I was born supreme

... about how he played. He was *godawful*. Hero ball all over the court, terrible shot selection, and missed even the good shots.

And his terrible play is compounded by his cancerous attitude throughout the season, and further compounded by his constant declarations that we should all just wait for the playoffs to see what he can do for this team.

He brought all of the adversity on himself. And he deserves *all* of the frying.

----------------------------------------

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I don't like reading too much into that, necessarily... but combine his shooting slump with the defense's inability to do anything with Giannis with the Celtic fans seemingly turning on him with his own future up in the air? Yeah, I mean, I think he has the mental fortitude for the big moments and he has the mental fortitude to be the guy a contending team needs... but he seemed exhausted in all senses of the word second half of Game 4. Seemed like he'd accepted what the rest of the world already knows-- they can't win this series. I'd prefer to see him fight... but he'd be far from the first star player to look resigned to defeat with a series against a better team winding down.

Kyrie's shooting this series hasn't helped, but I think the team's inability to develop a genuine second option this season really hurt their playoff prospects in general. Tatum didn't take the massive leap many people thought he would this year-- he's obviously improving, but he isn't Second Option on a Title Team good. Brown's shooting really plummeted. Hayward obviously needs time, and even then he may not become what he was before the injury. Horford is very solid but is a sturdy role player at this point, not a guy you lean on to carry a big load. So who can the Celtics go to when Kyrie's shots aren't falling? This is insane to even ask... but is their second best player *right today* better than Khris Middleton? Is their third best player *right today* better than Eric Bledsoe?

I also don't love what Stevens did this year. Sped up the pace, fired more 3s per game, looked for more transition buckets. The offensive efficiency improved-- more 3s and more transition buckets will help that-- but I felt at times like this was also hurting their defense, between looking for the run out instead of focusing on cleaning up the defensive glass and taking ill-advised 3s that led to easy bucket opportunities for their opponents. ESPECIALLY in a series against the Bucks, who are absolutely dynamite in transition, this is a really bad combination of things imo.

It'll be interesting to see what Kyrie does from here. He's still my favorite player in the league, and I still think he's absolutely capable of making deep runs. I think Boston would be attractive to free agents and I think Tatum will continue to improve with another year under his belt-- whether that means he stays or acts as an attractive trade piece for a big home run signing. I also think Hayward should at least improve from this year's play. So Boston has way more upside for Kyrie as a leader than most any other team-- unless he joins a team as the second option again, which I don't really see happening. I *pray* he understands that he has way better chances at winning a title in Boston than he would as the #1 option in goddamn New York. So I'm hopeful he'll at least try to stick it out short term in Boston. (Unless he gets a shot at some superteam and more rings, in which case, by all means, chase away-- those opportunities don't come around too often.)

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It's about the whole season. The quotes, leadership miscues, the tiff with Brown about blaming only the young guys, the apology call to LeBron, the way the whole season has been a flat disappointment. And then, when it seems that they've turned it around and finished the season strong, blazing through round 1, they flutter out of round 2 without much of a real fight and he seems to have tapped out.

There's a lot that goes into that but I think he has had tons of miscues. Granted, this is his first time actually being the real leader of a successful team so I know there will be growing pains but man, he shat the bed a bit here.

>So who can the Celtics go to when Kyrie's shots
>aren't falling? This is insane to even ask... but is their
>second best player *right today* better than Khris Middleton?
>Is their third best player *right today* better than Eric
>Bledsoe?

I think this kinda falls on Stevens but also some on Kyrie as the player with the highest usage on the team (almost 30%). Last year, when they made their run in the playoffs, everyone had about a 20% usage rate with Tatum and Brown leading the way at 23/24. Kyrie ate in to all of that, with Hayward assisting. It's probably the single most important factor in their lack of development this season.

Stevens (and to an extent, Kyrie) should have realized those guys needed the reps and catered an offense more designed to share the ball than let Kyrie go all skip to my lou 3 out of 10 possessions. Yes, his assist are up but he should have challenged for the league lead.

And I think the C's have the next 4 best players in this series after Giannis. They just aren't playing like it.

>I also don't love what Stevens did this year. Sped up the
>pace, fired more 3s per game, looked for more transition
>buckets. The offensive efficiency improved-- more 3s and more
>transition buckets will help that-- but I felt at times like
>this was also hurting their defense, between looking for the
>run out instead of focusing on cleaning up the defensive glass
>and taking ill-advised 3s that led to easy bucket
>opportunities for their opponents. ESPECIALLY in a series
>against the Bucks, who are absolutely dynamite in transition,
>this is a really bad combination of things imo.

I can see this and I agree to an extent.

>It'll be interesting to see what Kyrie does from here. He's
>still my favorite player in the league, and I still think he's
>absolutely capable of making deep runs. I think Boston would
>be attractive to free agents and I think Tatum will continue
>to improve with another year under his belt-- whether that
>means he stays or acts as an attractive trade piece for a big
>home run signing. I also think Hayward should at least improve
>from this year's play. So Boston has way more upside for Kyrie
>as a leader than most any other team-- unless he joins a team
>as the second option again, which I don't really see
>happening. I *pray* he understands that he has way better
>chances at winning a title in Boston than he would as the #1
>option in goddamn New York. So I'm hopeful he'll at least try
>to stick it out short term in Boston. (Unless he gets a shot
>at some superteam and more rings, in which case, by all means,
>chase away-- those opportunities don't come around too often.)

Boston works if Ainge lets Rozier walk or trades him, Stevens chooses the right line up and gets buy in from whomever gets benched (and I mean true buy in, like Lou Williams buy in) and Kyrie chooses to spread the wealth more often to develop his young guys.

Otherwise, he'll be a 2nd or 3rd fiddle on an NY team featuring KD and him or KD, possibly AD and him.

____________

>And I think the C's have the next 4 best players in this
>series after Giannis. They just aren't playing like it.

I'd agree Jayson Tatum has the highest *potential* of anyone not named Ky or Giannis on the floor... but if he's not consistently playing better than the less-talented-but-higher-producing Khris Middleton, then which player gives his team more value in a series today? I think it's obviously Middleton. Doesn't mean the Celtics trade Tatum for Middleton, also obviously, but in terms of being the better player *right today,* you need to base it on results instead of projections.

(And I say all of this as a huge, huge believer in Tatum-- he's just still not as a second-year player where the Celtics need him to be in terms of consistent production.)

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Kyrie and Hayward. And if they got further without those two than with those two and the two younger guys played better, where does the blame lie?

And production is a matter of timing/circumstance/experience. Talent is a matter of ability and I still think Boston is way more talented top to bottom.

Bud put all the pieces in the right spots for Mil. Stevens either hasn't or tried but the personnel didn't buy in. There's blame to go around. We can't just chalk this up as Mil SHOULD have beaten Boston when almost everyone shoed the C's into a finals birth and still thought it might be possible after round 1.

They underachieved. Mil overachieved.

It's also funny that Tatum consistently produced in the playoffs in the ECF when needed but all of a sudden this season he's an afterthought. Might have something with his usage and a lack of similar opportunity.

____________

>Kyrie and Hayward. And if they got further without those two
>than with those two and the two younger guys played better,
>where does the blame lie?

Small sample size, different opponents, etc. Brown also played better *all season* last year, including with Kyrie, so there's pretty clearly not a linear relationship between Kyrie on the floor and Brown playing worse. Also no Marcus Smart this offseason, and while I don't love him, he'd have obviously made a big difference defensively (though he still wouldn't have solved the main problem, which is that Boston has no one who can guard Giannis).

Also, I don't think anyone's saying Kyrie *shouldn't* be taking heat. He's shot the ball badly. But I think there's a world of difference between "does he deserve blame?" and "can he be the guy?" The answer to both questions can be yes.

>And production is a matter of timing/circumstance/experience.
>Talent is a matter of ability and I still think Boston is way
>more talented top to bottom.

Sure. And as we've seen in every sport ever, younger and more "talented" players aren't always "better" players, especially in elimination tournaments. You keep going back to talent when no one is disputing Boston's talent. The dispute is whether these guys are better today as players than the players the Bucks have. I don't think they are. I'd take the Celtics' supporting cast next year, as they have the higher ceiling... but their ceiling doesn't matter today.

>We can't just chalk this up as
>Mil SHOULD have beaten Boston when almost everyone shoed the
>C's into a finals birth

you mean... last offseason? Before we saw Hayward was a shell of himself? Before we saw Brown's numbers regress to the mean? Before we discovered Tatum wasn't going to have the stratospheric jump that people expected? Before we knew Smart wouldn't play in the playoffs? Sure, that was then. Now, in reality, Milwaukee was a huge favorite for a reason.

>and still thought it might be possible
>after round 1.

Sure, I mean, anything's possible. But a -330 favorite in Vegas, without looking, was probably the widest odds of any in this round, East or West. So Milwaukee was a huge favorite. For a reason.

>They underachieved. Mil overachieved.

No one is disputing this either.

>It's also funny that Tatum consistently produced in the
>playoffs in the ECF when needed but all of a sudden this
>season he's an afterthought. Might have something with his
>usage and a lack of similar opportunity.

Yeah, I mean, he scored 18 PPG in the ECF and he's scoring 15 and a half PPG this playoffs so far. He had two shitty games out of eight that tanked his average this year-- that happens, and it's skewed what people have thought of his playoff performance for the most part imo. His usage isn't insanely lower-- he's averaging under 1 fewer shot per game in this playoffs than he did in the last playoffs. Take away those two duds, and his numbers are the same if not better than last year's playoffs. I know you *can't* just cherry-pick out his worst outings... but that's kind of the point with Tatum. People have been frustrated all year with him "taking games off," more or less. He acknowledged as much after Game 2-- he can't be so passive.

He's far from the main problem, but he's part of the aforementioned problem: if Kyrie isn't making shots, the team doesn't have a consistent second option that can help make up for a bad performance from your star.

You can have the last word, because I don't really feel like going back and forth any longer, lol. There's blame to go around. Kyrie's shooting has been bad. Hayward is being used too much for someone who isn't himself. Brown's shooting regressed as many of us suspected it would, and he has a team-worst assist rate and team-worst On/Off numbers. Replacing Smart with Hayward *really* hurts your team defense, especially against a team like the Bucks. I think Stevens's plan to push tempo and fire so many 3s is tailor made to backfire against a team like Milwaukee unless you're absolutely wet from distance. Also, on top of everything else, the Bucks are very very fucking good, and I think you're underselling how good they've been all year and how well they continue to play.

If you wanna take this series and use it to say Ky can't be The Guy, or Ky needs to be Second Banana, or Ky makes players worse, or Rozier would be better than Ky for the Celtics (lol), or whatever the other things I hear people say are, then by all means. I'm just hopeful Ky can go out with a bang in Game 5, put on a real show, and then I'll spend all summer praying to God that he doesn't go to the Knicks.

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>If you wanna take this series and use it to say Ky can't be
>The Guy, or Ky needs to be Second Banana, or Ky makes players
>worse, or Rozier would be better than Ky for the Celtics
>(lol), or whatever the other things I hear people say are,
>then by all means. I'm just hopeful Ky can go out with a bang
>in Game 5, put on a real show, and then I'll spend all summer
>praying to God that he doesn't go to the Knicks.

I'm not evaluating this series. I'm looking at the season. In it's entirety. As we both agreed, there's blame to go around but we both know that's not how the narrative plays out. Cavs lost, it's Bron's fault, Cavs win, Bron gets praise. Lakers lose it was Kobe's fault. Lakers win and voila!

Magnifying all of this is the C's have been ECF for 2 yrs running and now when they should be better than either of those 2yrs, they thud their way out of the playoffs. Kyrie's team, Kyrie's fault.

And whether it's fair or not, he gets the 'questionable' leader tag until he proves otherwise without LeBron's assistance.

____________

>Tatum
>didn't take the massive leap many people thought he would this
>year-- he's obviously improving, but he isn't Second Option on
>a Title Team good.

He had Kobe syndrome this year. Took awful, long 2s, didn't take it to the basket nearly as effectively as he did last year, didn't seem to have the same feel for the game or flow as he did last season.

Not only did he fail the eye test but take a look at his shooting %s year over year. He took a major step back. So not really sure where you're getting that he is "obviously improving".

https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/t/tatumja01.html

Hoping it's just a sophomore slump. And hoping he stays the fucking fuck away from Kobe this summer.

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Seriously...shout out to 'Rie

Homie bet on himself

I'm not mad at that...at all

He wanted to wear the big boy pants, and can't fill them

Nothing wrong with that.

We'll see what the move is following this playoff exit

If he moves on, to form a superteam with somebody else, maybe he gets it now...

If he doesn't...well, I wouldn't be surprised honestly if he spins his wheels for the rest of his career trying to convince us he's something that he's not

FTR, not mad at all at his decision to his point

We'll see if he learns from it with his next move

BOS shoulda traded him.

Right today, it's all on Kyrie

BOS gave him the keys, and he steered them here

All the sulking, brooding, and pouting, that seem to be true aspects of his personality

...have now infected the locker room

Forcing a trade and then claiming the earth was flat...just too much.

EDIT - just read some of the posts above

HE'S BEING OUTPLAYED BY GEORGE HILL!!!

FOH, copping pleas about MIL having the best record, etc...

Not even close to the issue

'Rie just put up the worst 3 game playoff span of his career

vs George Hill.

c'mon...he needs Bron.

---------------------------------------------------------------

If you can't understand it without an explanation

you can't understand it with an explanation

How much more evidence do folks need that he isn't an alpha?

There's nothing wrong with it, either. Fantastic player, will have a great career.

But...he keeps showing folks who he is and their response is "lets wait and see"

The Celtics are worse this year than the last two years. Subtraction by addition...?

Yeah its on Stevens***. But its also on Kyrie. He's a robin. Plenty of great players have been robins.

Kyrie is a sidekick.

That's Boston's problem, actually. They have a ton of sidekicks. All Robins no Batman.


***I'm not putting it on MAGAward because he was overrated prior to his injury. Dude was graded on that white boy curve in Utah. Injury or no injury, that was a terrible contract and an over-rated move at best. Surprises me to this day dudes on OkaySports fell for that privileged shit.

and Kobe laughed at him.

while I thought it was funny at the time I also kind of thought it was mad disrespectful.

I know he was young and bullshitting but I wonder if Kobe thought this kid isn’t what he thinks he is.

****************
TBH the fact that you're even a mod here fits squarely within Jag's narrative of OK-sanctioned aggression, bullying, and toxicity. *shrug*

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FFGA9eWsTZk

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C8FAOD4LurE

>So what is it now? Bad chemistry? Overrating of Stevens? Too
>many egos? Injuries? Bad management (maybe Ainge should have
>moved a few pieces to make things fit better)?
>
>Or does this all circle back to Kyrie? He's 27, right in the
>middle of his prime, perennial allstar, hit movie under his
>belt, amazing skillset, ring. Shouldn't he be able to lead
>THIS cast to the finals at minimum?
>

It circles back to Kyrie because he wanted to lead a team to a chip, but in reality he’s not built for that. Durant figured that out and went to GS. Durant knew that while he is a good player, he wasn’t the guy that could lead a team to a title as the main guy. The Celts last year had chemistry without Kyrie and Hayward. Better ball movement and a better rotation. This year Tatum has taken a step backwards. He looks nothing like he did last year. Not that he isn’t solid, but Kyrie’s demand for having the ball has ruined the chemistry. I really can’t say that there are too many egos, it’s just one ego IMO.

>It circles back to Kyrie because he wanted to lead a team to a
>chip, but in reality he’s not built for that.


^^^^^^^^^^^^^

GOAT of his era......long live Prince.....God is alive....

>It circles back to Kyrie because he wanted to lead a team to a
>chip, but in reality he’s not built for that. Durant
>figured that out and went to GS. Durant knew that while he is
>a good player, he wasn’t the guy that could lead a team to a
>title as the main guy.

Uhmmm. I get that he joined a juggernaut, but he's undoubtedly been the "main guy" for that GS squad the past 3 years. Obviously with an insanely talented supporting cast around him, but still. He's been the alpha in that room since he stepped in it.

He'll never be more loved than Steph, but he's undoubtedly The Guy on that team.

Not to mention he damn near took GS out when he was in OKC in 2016.

----------------------------------------

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>Uhmmm. I get that he joined a juggernaut, but he's undoubtedly
>been the "main guy" for that GS squad the past 3 years.
>Obviously with an insanely talented supporting cast around
>him, but still. He's been the alpha in that room since he
>stepped in it.
>
>He'll never be more loved than Steph, but he's undoubtedly The
>Guy on that team.
>
>Not to mention he damn near took GS out when he was in OKC in
>2016.

Maybe if GS didn’t win a chip prior to Durant joint them then I would agree with you. Also it is because OKC blew a 3-1 to them and then joined GS the following season that really doesn’t qualify him for alpha status. The stats prove that the team is worse off when Steph is out of the lineup. If Durant never went to GS they would still be winning chips.

shake and stir

<--- Big Baller World Order

>RE: His leadership style: take the worst of bron And the worst of Kobe
>shake and stir

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Kemba too

_________________________________________

The Bucks have the better team and should win the series but not in five games and not with him sulking and playing mediocre.

The Lakers are eager to reunite the band from 2016, maybe that'll be his next move, or team up with KD in the NY metro area. Either way I don't see Kyrie's whole Kobe power move playing out the way he expected, ever. I said before he wouldn't be the top guy on a title team but I admit I was briefly nervous about that prediction.

And you will know MY JACKET IS GOLD when I lay my vengeance upon thee.

The rest of them are mediocre. Next year they’ll be 6th or 7th seed

>RE: Celtics are trash. Hordford is soft. Tatum is a not a game changer
>The rest of them are mediocre. Next year they’ll be 6th or
>7th seed

I wouldn't call them "trash" but I;m with you in that don't consider the young guys nearly as good as many of my fellow C's fans do. I have Celtics fan friends talking about they shouldn't have even bothered with Kyrie and let the young kids (Tatum and Brown specifically) take the lead role. I like them both but neither of them have that DNA. Tatum regressed this year and complains too much. Brown is inconsistent as hell despite his insane athleticism. He just doesn't seem to have a feel for the game a lot of the time. He reminds me of Tony Allen. Insanely athletic, brings a lot of energy, super likable guy ... but also insanely out of control in transition, streaky shooter (though I concede Brown is a far *superior* shooter despite the inconsistency), and disappears at times.

The only other gripe I have with what you said is that I wouldn't consider Horford soft *at all*. He muscles down low with the best big guys in the league and is a rock for this team. Problem is that his contract has people confused. The summer the C's signed him was that wild summer when *everyone* was getting insane contracts. So you can't really judge him by that, but the media does. Horford is not at all a max guy and isn't a #1 option but he is a rock solid frontcourt player who you can pretty much always count on to do the right thing. He just needs a superstar or two around him. In fact he had the best on the court chemistry with Kyrie out of anyone. Their pick and pop was nearly unstoppable in the times when Ky stopped playing hero ball.

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"Fuck aliens." © WarriorPoet415

keep me moving around, make the game much simpler.

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https://smallprofessor.bandcamp.com

here's a link where more Nas inspired rhymes were used to attack Kyrie: https://tinyurl.com/yxgefwy3

"Sean sparks like John Starks, nah, Sean ball like John Wall" - Rest In Power Forever Sean Price.

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"The world is before you and you need not take it or leave it as it was when you came in." - James Baldwin

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<---https://www.amazon.com/dp/B01DL9AVTQ

With the broke J, that don't spray right

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GOAT of his era......long live Prince.....God is alive....

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In 33 gotdamn minutes. Turrible.

<---
Fuck a sig, my presence is enough.

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bshelly

"You (Fisher) could get fired, Les Snead could get fired, Kevin Demoff could get fired, but I will always be Eric Dickerson.” (c) The God

Gotta wonder if the Celts will ramp up the efforts to get Anthony Davis. The young core they currently have did not impress though. At all.


An interesting summer indeed.

"Sean sparks like John Starks, nah, Sean ball like John Wall" - Rest In Power Forever Sean Price.

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Mar-A-Lago delenda est

how will you react if and when Kyrie signs to the Knicks this coming offseason?

For the record, my main focus is this coming Tuesday with the Knicks possibly snagging generational talent Zion Williamson. All these Durant/Kyrie rumors about them joining the Knicks just feel a bit too good to be true for me to take them all that seriously.

"Sean sparks like John Starks, nah, Sean ball like John Wall" - Rest In Power Forever Sean Price.

I KNOW they are gonna try to trade it to NO for Davis. If the Knicks work out a good enough package (that doesn't deplete the team) and Davis end up at MSG, I think the chances of at least one of them going to NYC increases a lot.

____________

The Zion trade speculation been circling

What pieces make that trade work?

I'm assuming AD would have to do a sign and trade

Doesn't make sense to trade Zion just to let AD walk in 20' FA

Why would AD sign a multi-year deal to go to a dogshit NYK team?

The speculation is entertaining in the interim

I don't see how it works...?

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If you can't understand it without an explanation

you can't understand it with an explanation

>What pieces make that trade work?

Knicks are under the cap (have about $72 mil to play with), they could do it for $ essentially. I'm assuming they wanna keep two max slots though so they'd include (and NO would probably require) some young talent and a expiring for cap relief. Lance Thomas (7 mil), Alonzo Trier (3.5 mil could likely be signed and traded, maybe give him a 5-6 mil dollar raise) and Frank Ntilikina (4.8 mil) could be included. Though I think NO would want Knox instead ($4.3 mil). Maybe you send all 4 with #1.

That would be between $19-$24/$25 mil + #1 pick. $7 mil in cap relief for NO in Summer '20 ($6 immediately if they waive him). And 4 young prospects which include Zion Williamson.

Davis is at $27 mil next season so it's basically a wash salary wise and you still have $72 mil in cap to play with while retaining DSJ and Robinson.

Sign 1-2 max players and fill out the rest of the roster from there.

I think AD would do a sign and trade IF the Knicks had already secured a big name FA commitment so the deal might have to wait until after FAgency starts for that to settled. But barring that, you take the risk because they have a ton of flexibility and they already suck so if they wiff on FA's and AD is stuck in purgatory for a season then bounces, they still have a gang of cash to throw at FA's next summer and would have a shot at Wiseman, Edwards, Stewart or Cole Anthony.

____________

If he gets traded or if he stays in NO (not happening), he's said that he wants to be a free agent after this season.

But, like you said, teams that can, should take the risk. Because it's AD.

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www.albumism.com

Checkin' Our Style, Return To Zero:

https://www.mixcloud.com/returntozero/

He looks at a team flanked by KD and Kyrie and he might change his mind. If those guys lock in for 4-5 yr deals, I think he'd be inclined to do the same.

KD is probably the lead on that team as he's won more and has more experience but he'd slow down around year 3 and Davis would be 29 at that point, perfect timing for him to run the show (which actually, could come sooner if they actually win a title).

Might appeal to him.

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I dunno, something a bit odd about a Bulls fan being so optimistic about the Knicks' prospects, especially since there is an outside shot (12.5% if I'm reading right) that the Bulls could snag that top pick.

"Sean sparks like John Starks, nah, Sean ball like John Wall" - Rest In Power Forever Sean Price.

In a perfect world, we get #1 and him and LaVine become a nightmare on the break with Lauri a deadly 3pt outlet option.

I feel like the Knicks aren't looking for 'slow organic growth' if they can land 2 FA's and AD.

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Without waiting unti his first seven years are up? We talk a lot about these guys having enough money, but this will probably be the biggest contract that he ever signs. No reason to expect him to take less than he can take, especially with his talent.

But if I'm wrong about that, I'm wrong.

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www.albumism.com

Checkin' Our Style, Return To Zero:

https://www.mixcloud.com/returntozero/

IMO, 2 FAs and Zion = better

I'm sure it will be entertaining though

Just not buying the speculation

NYK would be better off keeping Zion and signing FAs IMO

That AD drama fitting to be on repeat for the next 2 seasons.

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If you can't understand it without an explanation

you can't understand it with an explanation

but if the Knicks get the first pick, I would rather the 8-10 years of Zion being a generational talent than the 3-4 year championship window the Knicks would have with a Anthony Davis/Durant/Kyrie squad. And 3-4 years is probably being a bit too generous given Kyrie and AD's health issues in the past.

I've been a miserable Knicks fan for way too long to want to use the pick for a quick fix championship team. I'm certain the Knicks will get a ton of phone calls if Tuesday turns out like I hope it does, so I hope the front office doesn't louse things up and ship the chance at getting Zion away.

"Sean sparks like John Starks, nah, Sean ball like John Wall" - Rest In Power Forever Sean Price.

Great number 2’s can still be hall of famers though.

But he has proven he’s not a guy you want as your best player. He’s in his prime, healthy, and had a loaded team. Flat out played poorly when it counted.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UZynubB4Gks

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"Impetuous. Tempestuous."

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www.albumism.com

Checkin' Our Style, Return To Zero:

https://www.mixcloud.com/returntozero/

maybe not his best, but my personal favorite. Phoney Phranchise, Signature Slogans, Offspring, Proto Culture, Catch All This...so good.

...I'm from the era when A.I. was the answer, now they think ai is the answer - Marlon Craft

Both Del and Casual kill that.

I personally prefer the first two albums. But "Both Sides" is awesome.

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www.albumism.com

Checkin' Our Style, Return To Zero:

https://www.mixcloud.com/returntozero/

I do feel like Future Development is the best, most complete album.

...I'm from the era when A.I. was the answer, now they think ai is the answer - Marlon Craft

Jaw Gymnastics and Catch All This are still the highlights for me...both still sound next level and fresh af.

where they pull the baseline, Del keeps rapping, then they throw it back in (really in any rap song when they do that) is one of my favorite things in life
https://youtu.be/SUU6I7Gr8Tg?t=118

...I'm from the era when A.I. was the answer, now they think ai is the answer - Marlon Craft

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I haven't seen him here since the play-offs started.

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www.albumism.com

Checkin' Our Style, Return To Zero:

https://www.mixcloud.com/returntozero/

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Mar-A-Lago delenda est