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Lobby Okay Sports topic #2685237

Subject: "Bullis School (MD) sets new HS national 4x2, 4x4 records" Previous topic | Next topic
Walleye
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Mon Jan-21-19 11:42 AM

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"Bullis School (MD) sets new HS national 4x2, 4x4 records"


          

1:25.60 and 3:12.53. That is extremely fast.

https://www.flotrack.org/articles/6329000-weekend-recap-holloway-impresses-texas-frosh-tops-irby

5. Bullis School Sets 4x400 And 4x200 U.S. High School Records At VA Showcase
It was a huge weekend for the Bullis School boys from Potomac, Maryland, at the VA Showcase and it all started on Friday evening in the 4x400m as they broke a 10-year-old U.S. high school indoor record with their 3:12.53. Bern (N.C.) had previously held the record since 2009 with a 3:13.06.

The four-man performance was punctuated by an electric run from junior anchor Ashton Allen, a fast-rising star who split a scintillating 46.5.

Allen and Co. were back for more on Saturday, as the Bulldogs put together a 1:25.60 4x200m to set another U.S. prep record.

______________________________

"Walleye, a lot of things are going to go wrong in your life that technically aren't your fault. Always remember that this doesn't make you any less of an idiot"

--Walleye's Dad

  

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Topic Outline
Subject Author Message Date ID
Here's some (very bad quality) video of the 4x400m
Jan 21st 2019
1
Are they running a 60m dash in the middle while the relay is going on? l...
Jan 21st 2019
2
Shockingly, it works
Jan 21st 2019
3
Damn, their anchor is a beast. We'll see him nationally again.
Jan 23rd 2019
10
Related: Anybody ever try to compete against an all-time great?
Jan 21st 2019
4
Jeremy Wariner in the 4x400
Jan 21st 2019
6
Darryl Williamson used to just laugh at us.
Jan 22nd 2019
7
Oh shit, bad news for you
Jan 22nd 2019
8
My boy running 10.4 in HS. And we had a couple others.
Jan 23rd 2019
9
I was at a county wide student government thing with Alan Webb once
Jan 27th 2019
13
I know some people who got dusted by Charles Rogers
Jan 28th 2019
15
I once tried to race Michael Vick in front of an Atlanta strip club
Jan 29th 2019
18
      This sounds like a hell of a story
Jan 29th 2019
19
           Indeed it is.
Jan 30th 2019
21
related... one of my favorite things is the times for Jamaica's HS final...
Jan 21st 2019
5
I’ve been to the Penn Relays the last two ywars
Jan 26th 2019
11
Walleye - need your coaching advice
Jan 27th 2019
12
Oh, man - I'm *really* happy you're doing that
Jan 27th 2019
14
Thanks, any insight is appreciated
Jan 29th 2019
16
RE: Walleye - need your coaching advice
Jan 29th 2019
17
      Thanks for this. I'll keep you updated & ask more questions
Jan 30th 2019
20

Walleye
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Mon Jan-21-19 02:31 PM

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1. "Here's some (very bad quality) video of the 4x400m"
In response to Reply # 0


          

It was... not an interesting race except for their time.

https://www.flotrack.org/video/6329008-tasty-race-bullis-school-4x400m-hs-national-record

______________________________

"Walleye, a lot of things are going to go wrong in your life that technically aren't your fault. Always remember that this doesn't make you any less of an idiot"

--Walleye's Dad

  

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PimpTrickGangstaClik
Member since Oct 06th 2005
15894 posts
Mon Jan-21-19 04:11 PM

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2. "Are they running a 60m dash in the middle while the relay is going on? l..."
In response to Reply # 1


          

I understand they got a schedule to maintain, but this?

They had folks forming a human shield to make sure the runners didn't trickle into the oval portion haha

_______________________________________

  

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Walleye
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Mon Jan-21-19 04:22 PM

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3. "Shockingly, it works"
In response to Reply # 2


          

>I understand they got a schedule to maintain, but this?

I took a 4x200m and a LJ (with the 4x2 crowd doing some individual events) down to Liberty two weeks ago and we all saw that they were planning to run the 55s during some events on the track and collectively cringed. The schedule is entirely the reason. They're running probably a few hundred kids through 55m prelims. If they stopped to give them the whole track, it'd add a whole other day to the meet.*

There's actually more space for the 55m dash folks to continue running than it looks like, and between the human shields, the cordons, and the substantial bank on the track - it wasn't ever really an issue.

As a sidenote, it's easily the nicest indoor facility I've ever seen. Liberty University can go get fucked, but they run a great highschool track meet.

*obviously, they could just admit fewer runners. but we're gonna just disregard that bit of common sense.

______________________________

"Walleye, a lot of things are going to go wrong in your life that technically aren't your fault. Always remember that this doesn't make you any less of an idiot"

--Walleye's Dad

  

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Castro
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Wed Jan-23-19 02:30 AM

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10. "Damn, their anchor is a beast. We'll see him nationally again. "
In response to Reply # 1


  

          

------------------
One Hundred.

  

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Walleye
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Mon Jan-21-19 05:33 PM

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4. "Related: Anybody ever try to compete against an all-time great?"
In response to Reply # 0


          

It's pretty weird. Periodically, the question will pop up "how do we beat them?" and it's uncomfortable to say "unless their bus gets stuck in traffic, we can't." I've never been a particularly inspiring, rah-rah type coach, but even I know that I'm not supposed to tell my kids that.

There's a little bit of grumbling toward their team because they've had some high-profile transfers lately. I find that frustrating from a pure puzzle-solving perspective. They're better than my team, but high school kids graduate and I was ready for their window to start closing next year. But beyond my own desire to plan things, I don't really care. It's not like they're putting 22 year olds on the roster, so as long as they all the appropriate age and take classes there then my view is "put everybody on the track and shoot the gun."

All told, it's good for our kids to have their perspective altered with respect to what constitutes "fast". Before this program got off the ground, we could ring up sprint points off of two or three kids running 11.3-11.4. Now, my runners know that's not going to do the trick. I always tell them my most formative track experience was getting lapped in an indoor 1200 (DMR leadoff) by West Springfield HS's own 4:01 miler, Sharif Karie. Obviously, I never got that good - but there's something positive in getting absolutely killed and thinking to yourself, "maybe my standards for success were artificially low."

______________________________

"Walleye, a lot of things are going to go wrong in your life that technically aren't your fault. Always remember that this doesn't make you any less of an idiot"

--Walleye's Dad

  

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PimpTrickGangstaClik
Member since Oct 06th 2005
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Mon Jan-21-19 09:38 PM

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6. "Jeremy Wariner in the 4x400"
In response to Reply # 4


          

Luckily I wasn't anchor.

_______________________________________

  

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MEAT
Member since Feb 08th 2008
22255 posts
Tue Jan-22-19 07:42 AM

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7. "Darryl Williamson used to just laugh at us."
In response to Reply # 6


  

          

------
“There is no fate that cannot be surmounted by scorn.” -Albert Camus

  

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Walleye
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Tue Jan-22-19 07:46 AM

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8. "Oh shit, bad news for you"
In response to Reply # 6


          

I ran against Bernard Williams in a 4x200m once, but I mostly ran 400/800 so it was pretty easy for me to chalk up a hilarious defeat to me working outside my range.

______________________________

"Walleye, a lot of things are going to go wrong in your life that technically aren't your fault. Always remember that this doesn't make you any less of an idiot"

--Walleye's Dad

  

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Castro
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Wed Jan-23-19 02:24 AM

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9. "My boy running 10.4 in HS. And we had a couple others."
In response to Reply # 4


  

          

So I didn't have to go to a meet to get crushed. I tried to convince him to use Ben Johnson's start technique out the blocks, but he didn't give a damn. He was PAINFULLY slow out the blocks, but he was 6' 4" and once he got going, the last 60 meters was a wrap. Football was his 'natural' sport, and he was used to showing up and winning the 100 and 200 with no technique beyond keeping his arms close to his body and pumping his knees. My ass was studying tape with the hopes of breaking 11, LOL.

------------------
One Hundred.

  

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Call It Anything
Member since Aug 13th 2005
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Sun Jan-27-19 12:57 AM

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13. "I was at a county wide student government thing with Alan Webb once"
In response to Reply # 4


  

          

That's all I got

  

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Rjcc
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15. "I know some people who got dusted by Charles Rogers"
In response to Reply # 4


          

dude didn't care at all, but he was just so. much. faster. than everyone else it wasn't even funny

www.engadgethd.com - the other stuff i'm looking at

  

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mrhood75
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Tue Jan-29-19 02:03 PM

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18. "I once tried to race Michael Vick in front of an Atlanta strip club"
In response to Reply # 4


  

          

He was offering 3 to 1 odds and had just run six races in 10 minutes, so I figured I had a shot. I even got off the blocks first. Nope.




I was just trying to stunt on someone that night.

-----------------

www.albumism.com

Checkin' Our Style, Return To Zero:

https://www.mixcloud.com/returntozero/

  

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Beamer6178
Member since Jan 09th 2006
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Tue Jan-29-19 02:41 PM

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19. "This sounds like a hell of a story"
In response to Reply # 18


  

          

>He was offering 3 to 1 odds and had just run six races in 10
>minutes, so I figured I had a shot. I even got off the blocks
>first. Nope.
>
>
>
>
>I was just trying to stunt on someone that night.

And a great comedy skit foundation.

  

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mrhood75
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Wed Jan-30-19 01:32 PM

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21. "Indeed it is."
In response to Reply # 19


  

          

RWQ

-----------------

www.albumism.com

Checkin' Our Style, Return To Zero:

https://www.mixcloud.com/returntozero/

  

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GOMEZ
Member since Feb 13th 2003
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Mon Jan-21-19 06:00 PM

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5. "related... one of my favorite things is the times for Jamaica's HS final..."
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

I check their times every year, and the times that Jamaica's high school kids put up are insane.

In a generation of swine, the one-eyed pig is king.
-Hunter S. Thompson

  

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MEAT
Member since Feb 08th 2008
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11. "I’ve been to the Penn Relays the last two ywars"
In response to Reply # 5


  

          

The most comical part about those teams times is that the HS kids look like kids
Jeremy Warner
Darryl Willamson
Cedric Griffin
Robert Parham
Robbie Quiroga ...these dudes were built like young adults when others were hilt like kids.
They were dusting us, but they looked like they should, the kids at the relays LOOK like kids.

------
“There is no fate that cannot be surmounted by scorn.” -Albert Camus

  

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LA2Philly
Member since Oct 18th 2004
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Sun Jan-27-19 12:23 AM

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12. "Walleye - need your coaching advice"
In response to Reply # 0
Sun Jan-27-19 12:23 AM by LA2Philly

  

          

A lot of my expertise in the injury rehab & performance world is with runners and in a couple weeks I'll be overseeing a track & field club of 400 kids and 50 coaches; they vary from 6 to 16 years old and it's literally everything in terms of competitions - from distance to sprints to jumps.

My focus, nor my aim, isn't to replace the coaching - rather supplement it via my understanding of health, biomechanics, and movement (motor control, neuromuscular control, sensory integration, etc).

My first goal is to really help the coaches and kids understand some rules of thumb when it comes to pain indicators (duration, severity, type, trendline), so there's a little more nuance then "o shit, that kid is limping in the warm-up, maybe he's hurt", injury prevention (namely targeted muscle activations in their warm-ups and strength training in key areas - hip abductors to start) and then move into the performance side.

With all that in mind, any advice on navigating and cementing the relationships with the coaches, parents, and kids?

---------------------------------
<--The drought is over

"have fun reveling in your pettiness tho" (C) Dula summing up 98% of OKS

"I didnt finish a damn thing...matter of fact I jerked off after she left."
-Kobe speaking to investigators

L D E A

  

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Walleye
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14. "Oh, man - I'm *really* happy you're doing that"
In response to Reply # 12
Sun Jan-27-19 08:51 PM by Walleye

          

... but these enormous AAU-style track clubs are an absolute bear. They definitely need more people with your skillset involved because the sheer administrative size of the project isn't always conducive with keeping up with more recent understanding on how to succeed in the sport. Lots and lots and lots of "it worked for me when I ran in 1977" from good-hearted people.

I'll come back on this tomorrow when I can be organized and at least pretend to approach helpfulness. It's extremely cool that you're throwing your hat into that ring, though. So even if I'm not helpful, know that I'm grateful.

______________________________

"Walleye, a lot of things are going to go wrong in your life that technically aren't your fault. Always remember that this doesn't make you any less of an idiot"

--Walleye's Dad

  

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LA2Philly
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Tue Jan-29-19 10:30 AM

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16. "Thanks, any insight is appreciated"
In response to Reply # 14


  

          

meeting with the coaches this weekend to kick things off

---------------------------------
<--The drought is over

"have fun reveling in your pettiness tho" (C) Dula summing up 98% of OKS

"I didnt finish a damn thing...matter of fact I jerked off after she left."
-Kobe speaking to investigators

L D E A

  

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Walleye
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Tue Jan-29-19 12:44 PM

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17. "RE: Walleye - need your coaching advice"
In response to Reply # 12


          

Honestly, the only thing I do genuinely well as a coach is build training groups that support each other internally and try to succeed together. The way I do my job is closer to "cult leader" than to "track coach" but I've been doing it for awhile now and have both:

a)been the asshole who doesn't want to change the way he does anything
b)met a bunch of other assholes who don't want to change the way they do anything

So, if I'm understanding you correctly, the only real thing I have to offer is any possible insight on how to grease the wheels so that you can help kids by doing what you're good at.

>My focus, nor my aim, isn't to replace the coaching - rather
>supplement it via my understanding of health, biomechanics,
>and movement (motor control, neuromuscular control, sensory
>integration, etc).

Sweet. Because that's the biggest bit of absent expertise from most youth coaches. Which makes sense. The time, effort, and motivation to stay up on that immense and highly technical knowledge isn't always compatible with just moving a huge (jesus, that group you're describing is *so* huge) bunch of kids with wildly varying background, interest, and enthusiasm in the sport into something resembling specialized training groups and an actual team. Hell, the things I know and incorporate into my group's training aren't systematized in any meaningful way - they're just collected answers to problems I've run into over the years. Why did all my runners have hip injuries during cross country of 2015? Why can't my runners double and triple more effectively within individual meets? What do I do with a 15 year old who already profiles as a 5K/10K guy and therefore struggles with the necessary pop to run a good two mile in high school? That's a pretty dumb way to build a program, but it's pretty much the only way I ever learn new things and I am ... above average in curiosity when it comes to youth track coaching.

And I suspect you're going to find some coaches who've had bad experiences with people in your field too. Often that's on the coaches. Nobody likes being told (implicitly or explicitly) that they're doing something wrong. Be willing to explain why what you're suggesting will work (I don't suspect that's a problem, based on your enthusiasm for talking about it on this board) and try your best not to correct other coaches in front of the kids (unless they're doing something which is immediately harmful) because even if you're absolutely right, it hardly ever goes well. We've our share of petty dickheads whose only currency is authority. You only win arguments with those guys by not having them.

>My first goal is to really help the coaches and kids
>understand some rules of thumb when it comes to pain
>indicators (duration, severity, type, trendline), so there's a
>little more nuance then "o shit, that kid is limping in the
>warm-up, maybe he's hurt", injury prevention (namely targeted
>muscle activations in their warm-ups and strength training in
>key areas - hip abductors to start) and then move into the
>performance side.

God damn that sounds helpful. I hate how useless I am with injuries, though working at a rich high school with an actual sports medicine staff means I get to (have to, actually, for liability concerns) outsource stuff. Still makes me feel like a useless asshole to just shrug and say "go see the trainer".

If your concern here is how to get coaches to buy in, it is sadly not really enough to point out that they could just watch a high level program to see that the time committed track athletes spend on their warm-up, cool-down, and supplemental strength training is immensely greater than the amount of time they spend doing eyeballs-rolling-back-in-head 400 repeats.

I wouldn't have listened to that five or six years ago because, as dumb as I am now, I was a much more stubborn kind of dumb when I started. And coaches also have to treat available time as a scarce resource. If you've got kids who don't drive themselves or are just absurdly over-scheduled as a lot of kids are now, coaches will look at a warm-up and strength/flexibility program and cool-down and say "I've got two hours with these kids and you want to take one of those to not do any of the work I think is important?"

One thing I may have listened to is pointing out that a good, full warm-up may be the closest that track gets to a team dynamic. For workouts, everybody's going to break out into specific training groups, but treating warmup as something that's important for a full team dynamic may get some traction. In describing what you'd like to accomplish too, it's probably worth pointing out that you *are* suggesting something that's physically taxing and engages them as athletes. The biggest shift since I ran is that the short sprints are basically coached like a technical event. And for a lot of technical events, the clear and bright line between the stuff you do for injury prevention/strength/flexibility/etc. and the traditional "workout" doesn't really exist any more. That dynamic is only going to increase into other events, and the importance of your field in youth sports is only gonna grow.

I don't actually think you'll need to do much to get traction with the kiddoes. They're way more intellectually flexible than people think, and a lot of them come from a background in other sports where you spend practice doing a pretty wide diversity of stuff. Football players don't just break into two teams of eleven every practice and play a game. Kids understand this so if you can talk them through why what you're doing is helpful and important they'll understand that in the same way that basketball players understand that sometimes they run plays, sometimes they work on defense, and sometimes they work on shooting.

Parents are weird. I have nothing. 99% of them are totally easy and just want to see their kid happy, competitive in a healthy way, and improving steadily. The 1% that are problems can't be avoided preemptively.

>With all that in mind, any advice on navigating and cementing
>the relationships with the coaches, parents, and kids?

______________________________

"Walleye, a lot of things are going to go wrong in your life that technically aren't your fault. Always remember that this doesn't make you any less of an idiot"

--Walleye's Dad

  

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LA2Philly
Member since Oct 18th 2004
41249 posts
Wed Jan-30-19 01:17 PM

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20. "Thanks for this. I'll keep you updated & ask more questions"
In response to Reply # 17


  

          

The key thing is definitely going to be how I present the information to these coaches. As you touched on, it's not easy breaking that status quo "I did it this way" mentality.

---------------------------------
<--The drought is over

"have fun reveling in your pettiness tho" (C) Dula summing up 98% of OKS

"I didnt finish a damn thing...matter of fact I jerked off after she left."
-Kobe speaking to investigators

L D E A

  

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