there are some slow mfers here. 40 times from the RB group:
Dalvin Cook, FSU: 4.50 - not good at all.
Christian McCaffrey: 4.49 - average for his size (200 pounds). his second 40 was 4.59.
Alvin Kamara, Tennessee: 4.50 - considering he's also barely 200 pounds, nothing special. although he never showed breakaway speed in college; he's more shifty than anything.
Leonard Fournette, LSU: 4.51 - actually the better than everyone above him because he ran at 240 pounds.
Wayne Gallman, Clemson: 4.57 Kareem Hunt, Toledo: 4.62 James Conner, Pitt: 4.66 Samaje Perine, Oklahoma: 4.66 Corey Clement, Wisconsin: 4.68
- at least Perine and Conner are 230+. Clement's and Hunt's times are abysmal.
Joe Williams, Utah: 4.40 - helped himself a lot today among a sea of plodders.
3. "it's just a missed opportunity for them." In response to Reply # 1
I'm really side-eyeing McCaffrey's time (he also only managed 10 reps on the bench, so he's neither strong or straight-line fast) considering what he projects as.
Cook's talent hasn't changed, but with running backs being so devalued these days, you really have to be special to merit a high pick. between some off the field cloudiness, his shoulder surgeries, and not blazing 40, he has cost himself a good bit of money since January.
7. "it is and it isnt imo" In response to Reply # 3
yeah you would have thought speed training would be a priority over the last 2 months
but like you said, with the devaluing of the position i think RBs are at the mercy of whim. if a team wants a reason to skip over an RB they'll come up with any. dipping below 4.5 would have been a nice jewel, but hes still the guy who was broke open a defense with 5-6 top 100 picks.
the real takeaway here is that NO ONE is as fast as they say they are out of high school lol. denard/CJ/calvin excluded
Tiger Woods Member since Feb 15th 2004 18385 posts
Fri Mar-03-17 09:07 PM
21. "you know what's cool about McAffrey" In response to Reply # 14
Is that if you're gonna bail on your last amateur showing, you'd better show out in your first professional showing. Completely vindicated for skipping his dumb bowl.
Tiger Woods Member since Feb 15th 2004 18385 posts
Fri Mar-03-17 09:57 PM
23. "Nah you still gotta take the kid from Texas AM, but Cook deserves top 5" In response to Reply # 22
I think Cook, McAffrey, and Fournette are all 3 great. I'm curious to see how ezekiel Elliott will have changed these guys' outlooks on taking RBs early
27. "Plenty of outstanding, 'can't miss' type RBs have faded out in the NFL" In response to Reply # 26
Beanie Wells Cedric Benson Darren McFaden William Green TJ Duckett Cadillac Williams Ronnie Brown Laurence Maroney Trent Richardson Michael Bennett Kevin Jones Donald Brown Ryan Williams Knowshon Moreno Felix Jones etc. etc. etc.
RB isn't the most easy position to evaluate and there's tons of potential for bust - even with guys we feel 'check out all the boxes.'
34. "He's better than all these guys." In response to Reply # 27
Only true shocking bust was Trent Richardson, that shit is mind boggling.
>Beanie Wells - He wasn't on LF's level. >Cedric Benson - He kicked ass everywhere but Chicago, was legit in Cincy >Darren McFaden - injuries >William Green - LOL >TJ Duckett - LF is waaaaay better than him. >Cadillac Williams -injury >Ronnie Brown - Had a long career, but never was a star >Laurence Maroney - he wasn't can't miss lol >Trent Richardson >Michael Bennett - was he even a 2nd rounder? >Kevin Jones - late 1st rounder, wasn't special of can't miss >Donald Brown - same as above >Ryan Williams - same as above >Knowshon Moreno - injuries & kinda small >Felix Jones - speed back, definitely over hyped and wasn'r can't miss >etc. etc. etc. > >RB isn't the most easy position to evaluate and there's tons >of potential for bust - even with guys we feel 'check out all >the boxes.' > > > > > > > >
Anti-gentrification, cheap alcohol & trying to look pretty in our twilight posting years (c) Big Reg
40. "True, not all those guys were hyped or expected to be as good as LF" In response to Reply # 34
but, some of them like Benson, Cadillac, Brown, Richardson, McFadden, were certainly believed at the time to be can't miss prospects. Benson was a very solid player for a while, but perhaps not quite top 5 pick worthy. Injuries, questionable work ethic, and drive are all factors that can derail a RBs career with the quickness. LF is no exception.
28. "Perspective: Emmitt Smith ran a 4.55 " In response to Reply # 0
Dalvin Cook's 4.50 is just fine in my opinion. What he may lack in breakaway/long speed, he more than makes up for with his exceptional burst, acceleration, and vision. His low center of gravity and ability to shake/punish defenders serves him well too.
Obviously you want a guy with elite speed, but a 4.50 is good enough - especially if you possess the traits he has. Anything above a 4.6 is concerning unless of course you are built like the Bus or Earl Cambell.
Also, before we get ahead of ourselves, Cook ran a 4.49 to Zeke Elliot's 4.47 (not saying Cook will be as good).
Trent Richardson ran 3 sub 4.5 40s and he's been a terrible NFL back.
39. "To be fair, I haven't watched enough of Cook to make an honest eval" In response to Reply # 29
From what I've seen he does have deceptive strength - much in the same vein as Emmmitt did. His build and style of play is similar to Marshawn Lynch and Curtis Martin. Both guys were about 5'10/210 and ran the 40 in the 4.4-4.5 range. Not saying he's destined for greatness, just that his measurables combined with his on field performance make him a potentially great player.
42. "I watched him a ton...he's stronger than folks prolly think..." In response to Reply # 39
he gets to the edge in a hurry. He can stop, cut and re accelerate well and is strong through contact. I like him a lot...Louis Riddick said he thinks his comp is Jamal Charles.
...I'm from the era when A.I. was the answer, now they think ai is the answer - Marlon Craft
47. "I'm replying to a comment about COOK...no one is talking" In response to Reply # 43
about Mccafrey, man. We saw what he did. What else should we be saying about it? If you want to beat your dick to video of him running the 40, feel free.
...I'm from the era when A.I. was the answer, now they think ai is the answer - Marlon Craft
30. "Reuben Foster tested positive for dumbass" In response to Reply # 0
dismissed from the Combine for wanting to cut the line for medical exams. apparently he pulled the 'do you know who I am?' card with a hospital employee, who told him he didn't care.
"Foster warned the man he'd put hands on him, and the employee said simply, 'Do it.'" (c) Robert Klemko, Sports Illustrated
Foster living up to the standards set by the great Rolando McClain.
33. "Curtis Samuel with that BROOKLYN SPEEEEEEEEEEED" In response to Reply # 0
>there are some slow mfers here. 40 times from the RB group: > >Dalvin Cook, FSU: 4.50 >- not good at all. > >Christian McCaffrey: 4.49 >- average for his size (200 pounds). his second 40 was 4.59. > >Alvin Kamara, Tennessee: 4.50 >- considering he's also barely 200 pounds, nothing special. >although he never showed breakaway speed in college; he's more >shifty than anything. > >Leonard Fournette, LSU: 4.51 >- actually the better than everyone above him because he ran >at 240 pounds. > >Wayne Gallman, Clemson: 4.57 >Kareem Hunt, Toledo: 4.62 >James Conner, Pitt: 4.66 >Samaje Perine, Oklahoma: 4.66 >Corey Clement, Wisconsin: 4.68 > >- at least Perine and Conner are 230+. Clement's and Hunt's >times are abysmal. > >Joe Williams, Utah: 4.40 >- helped himself a lot today among a sea of plodders.
------------------- I wanna go to where the martyrs went the brown figures on the walls of my apart-a-ment...
44. "These TEs are just as fast as the backs" In response to Reply # 0
Bunch of 250 pound dudes running 4.5s (OJ Howard just came in at 4.51)... I'd be kinda embarrassed if I was a 200 pound back and the TE is running just as fast as me
Tiger Woods Member since Feb 15th 2004 18385 posts
Sat Mar-04-17 09:06 PM
52. "It's possible that the only position that requires a specific skillset i..." In response to Reply # 44 Sat Mar-04-17 09:18 PM by Tiger Woods
is O-line anymore
At this point, it seems like talent evaluators are veering towards an "athlete-first" kind of decision making process, opting for freaks who could play a few different positions for you and contribute all over the field. Is Khalil Mack a tried and true linebacker in the Butkus, LT, Ray Lewis kind of mold? What kind of Tight End exactly is Rob Gronkowski or Jordan Reed? And is there a position on defense that Von Miller COULDN'T play?
This is the evolution of the NFL. The alien-like athlete who you can plug almost anywhere and get production from.
54. "i wouldn't go that far, but you also see a few teams trying that with O-..." In response to Reply # 52 Sat Mar-04-17 09:52 PM by rob
george fant had no offensive line experience ever, no high school fb and almost no college fb experience (5th year reserve TE) to starting for the seahawks line as a rookie.
i think there are players out there like von miller that you just want to get on the field and then build around. but in general i think a lot of players have specific positions, they're just much much more athletic (and schemes are more complicated) than ever.
58. "They still start these by hand, on the runner's motion?" In response to Reply # 0
That's how I understood the combine times were done, but I may be wrong. Or maybe was right and am now wrong?
In any case, please advise.
______________________________
"Walleye, a lot of things are going to go wrong in your life that technically aren't your fault. Always remember that this doesn't make you any less of an idiot"
If we're going to quibble over tenths of a second, then making it fully automated is the only way to keep that conversation coherent.
______________________________
"Walleye, a lot of things are going to go wrong in your life that technically aren't your fault. Always remember that this doesn't make you any less of an idiot"
his 40 time was actually one of his best drills. those short-area burst numbers are downright atrocious for his size (three-cone, shuttle, broad jump) and don't correlate with his on the field performance.
found out he was just as bad coming out of high school, though. numbers from a 2013 SPARQ testing camp:
for comparison's sake, Alabama defensive tackle Dalvin Tomlinson had the same broad jump at the combine, and he's 312 pounds. Nick Chubb was at the same SPARQ camp, and despite being similar in style and size (5'11, 217), his numbers were significantly better across the board.
weird. I guess you could argue it's a good thing, since it hasn't stopped him from playing the part in games -- which is the most important test.
68. "Remember when the mich secondary was supposed be to better than OSU? Lol" In response to Reply # 0 Mon Mar-06-17 05:18 PM by 3xKrazy
Hooker and Lattimore are top-10 picks with only 1 year of experience under their belts and Conley prob just ran himself into the mid to late first round.
Meanwhile Lewis and Stribling are slow as molasses and cfb's most overrated player of all time is probably a better offensive prospect than anything else. Not sure what position he plays on defense at 5'10 213.
74. "im not 'hyping' 40's...im mentioning them. it's a combine thread lmao" In response to Reply # 73 Mon Mar-06-17 10:56 PM by 3xKrazy
nor did i have some nutso agenda dating back to last year which I'm desperately and overbearingly trying to prove correct with 100+ posts of nonsense...simply making a comparison based on predictions from yourself and others (but really mostly you, haha). so just hold the L instead of deflecting, lol.
>if you were discussing on-field performance you would have >mentioned that Lewis is a 2x 1st Team All-American
a. LMAO that these awards mean anything and are somehow indicative of anything that goes on on the field or how it translates to the NFL. Billy Price shouldn't have been an All-American OL, JT shouldn't have been big 10 OPOY and Peppers shouldn't have been DPOY and had no business being in NYC for the heisman. these awards are a joke.
b. I never said that Jourdan Lewis is bad...just that his 40 time ran him out of the first round where he was questionable to go anyway (fact) and that the mich secondary wasnt as good as OSU's (fact).
>and im assuming for your sake that your question about >peppers's position is a cyse. otherwise i have to assume you >dont watch the NFL.
assume whatever you want. I'm far from the first person who see peppers having trouble fitting in on defense.
i was telling him all year that our secondary was better but he didnt listen.
im not sure jordan lewis even starts for us
#DbU rolls on with another star studded draft
>nor did i have some nutso agenda dating back to last year >which I'm desperately and overbearingly trying to prove >correct with 100+ posts of nonsense...simply making a >comparison based on predictions from yourself and others (but >really mostly you, haha). so just hold the L instead of >deflecting, lol. > >>if you were discussing on-field performance you would have >>mentioned that Lewis is a 2x 1st Team All-American > >a. LMAO that these awards mean anything and are somehow >indicative of anything that goes on on the field or how it >translates to the NFL. Billy Price shouldn't have been an >All-American OL, JT shouldn't have been big 10 OPOY and >Peppers shouldn't have been DPOY and had no business being in >NYC for the heisman. these awards are a joke. > >b. I never said that Jourdan Lewis is bad...just that his 40 >time ran him out of the first round where he was questionable >to go anyway (fact) and that the mich secondary wasnt as good >as OSU's (fact). > >>and im assuming for your sake that your question about >>peppers's position is a cyse. otherwise i have to assume >you >>dont watch the NFL. > >assume whatever you want. I'm far from the first person who >see peppers having trouble fitting in on defense.
------------------- I wanna go to where the martyrs went the brown figures on the walls of my apart-a-ment...
71. "CB Jalen Tabor (Florida) ran a 4.63/4.68?" In response to Reply # 0
good gracious. that's his draft stock getting hit by 2008 recession.
Josh Norman and Brandon Browner were the last two corners who stuck in the NFL with times that slow. but there are dozens more who barely managed a cup of coffee.
77. "Tabor runs a hand-timed 4.75 at Florida pro day" In response to Reply # 71
this man has slow in his bones. who the hell runs slower on their pro day on a college track? I figure plenty of NFL teams will absolutely never draft a corner that slow, for good reason.
80. "Is he playing football or trying out for the US track team?" In response to Reply # 77
I never understood the fascination with the 40 and how a slow time will hurt your draft prospects. Prospects spend months practicing the 40 yard dash. Practicing a start position they will never use on the field. Using running technique they will never use in a game. But some how this provides information?
You know this dude's competition. You've seen him play. Is he a good player or not?
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but he did win the vert with an impressive 39.5
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