You're the Bengals' owner. The team blew a 14 point lead over the Steelers Sunday, dropping them to 5-8-1 (2-3 in the division, both wins over Clevelland) and officially eliminating them from the playoffs. You lost OC Hue Jackson, Sanu, Jones, Eifert only played half a season and AJ Green has been out since week 10 (Jeez...AJ Green has 4 TDs in 10 games!! That seems unreal). The offense fades terribly in second halves of games. On the other hand, the defense ranks 26th against the run and 21st overall. They end the season @ Houston and vs. Baltimore...both those teams have something to play for. Should they end up 5-10-1, you rockin with him another year? If they finish 7-8-1, is that enough? Where you at?
...I'm from the era when A.I. was the answer, now they think ai is the answer - Marlon Craft
1. "I'd be shocked if he was fired" In response to Reply # 0 Wed Dec-21-16 11:35 AM by THRILLHOUSE
Just based on how this organization works. He still has a year left on his contract. Mike Brown likes him. Marvin still wants to coach. And they'll use a lot of what you said as an excuse for why this year was a failure - the Eifert and Green injuries. Roster and Coaching turnover. And some of that does have merit. On the other hand, had they realized Nugent was a bum at this point in his career and brought in a decent kicker sooner, they actually would probably still be in the playoff race.
As a Bengal fan, I'm on the fence. I probably would've fired him after last years playoff game since it was such an epic meltdown. I'm kind of ready for a new voice/leadership now. Plenty of talent still on that roster, so it wouldn't be a complete rebuilding job. So yeah, if I were owner, I'd probably let him go.
But back to reality where unfortunately, Mike Brown is the owner...
I don't really have much faith in Mike Brown hiring a good replacement. His track record of head coach hiring pre-Marvin is abysmal. He'll probably just go with cheapest option available. Had they fired him a couple of years ago, they could've replaced him with Hue or Zimmer. But now there isn't anyone else on that staff that I see as NFL Head Coach caliber. And I actually like Marvin more than most Bengal fans. Yeah, some of his in-game decisions will drive me nuts, but he is the one that completely turned the organization around. Not every playoff loss is his fault (Palmer injury. Dalton shitting himself repeatedly. Things could've even been different had Dalton not got hurt last year).
But none of this really matters, he isn't getting fired. And I just typed way too many words than necessary for this team. Next year could be make or break though.
4. "hmmm, I'd say 8-6 or 9-5" In response to Reply # 3 Wed Dec-21-16 11:47 AM by THRILLHOUSE
so right up there in the AFC North race. With the Eifert injury and tough early schedule, probably would've been a slow start regardless of who was coaching. Only early game I might change is that Broncos game. They let Trevor Siemian tear them up in his first road start.
But they blew the games vs. Washington and the Giants. They played lousy at home vs. a mediocre Bills team after those 2. So change that 3 game stretch to wins they'd have 8 wins. But then Green gets hurt first play of Ravens game, so have to re-adjust expectations after that.
Now look at this list of coaches who never won a playoff game, nobody is even close to Marv at this point in terms of playoff failure other than Jim Mora and at least he didn't spend his entire tenure with 1 team not getting it done.
I don't blame him for 2005 (Palmer injury), 2011 (Dalton/Green first season). 2014 (AJ Green didn't play, couple of other skill positions were out as well).
2009, 2012, 2013 and the shitshow that was 2015, though? Yeah, each of those teams should have gotten at least 1 playoff win.
legsdiamond Member since May 05th 2011 79607 posts
Wed Dec-21-16 12:18 PM
9. "I hope he never leaves" In response to Reply # 0
I'm a Steeler fan tho...
If I was the owner I fire his ass.
**************** TBH the fact that you're even a mod here fits squarely within Jag's narrative of OK-sanctioned aggression, bullying, and toxicity. *shrug*
11. "I'd pretty much echo everything Trill said..." In response to Reply # 0
the locker room loves Marv and will run through brick walls for him, but even now I have to think that some of them are kinda ready to hear a new voice. Firing Marv would be a step back because Brown wouldn't hire the best candidate, he'd hire the cheapest candidate with no true track record. The best time to let Marv go would be when the window is completely shut and its 100% rebuilding time. AJ, Eifert, Gio, Burfict, Atkins, and Dalton are in their prime now so there is a little time.
But Brown ain't firing him...Me and Trill been trying to tell y'all every season, lol.
*I'm kinda glad we're finishing in 3rd this year. We still have a team that is capable of a SB run and we will play a 3rd place schedule next year so it works in our favor, if we come in to the season healthier than this year.
---------------------------------- www.maxptah.com "you gotta be real white to hate on a nxgga for eating." (c) okp infin8
>But Brown ain't firing him...Me and Trill been trying to tell >y'all every season, lol.
Man if they fired Marv and made Guenther or Zampese the HC, we wouldn't sniff the postseason for years. Letting Hue and Zimmer (and shit, even Gruden) go basically bought Marvin a couple of years of security. Since the Bengals love familiarity and cheapness, one realistic candidate I could get behind would be bringing Vance Joseph back.
>Man if they fired Marv and made Guenther or Zampese the HC, we >wouldn't sniff the postseason for years. Letting Hue and >Zimmer (and shit, even Gruden) go basically bought Marvin a >couple of years of security. Since the Bengals love >familiarity and cheapness, one realistic candidate I could get >behind would be bringing Vance Joseph back.
Yeah, Gruden is turning out to be a better HC than I expected and we knew it just a matter of time before Zim and Hue were gone. Guenther is Chuck Breshnahan with better defensive players (and I was a big Guenther stan last year, but I'm seeing his scheme now) and Zampese has looked like the resurrection of Bob Bratkowski last game in the second half.
I'd love for them to bring Vance back, that's who they were really hoping to groom to be Marv's replacement, but I think being a DC is his test right now.
---------------------------------- www.maxptah.com "you gotta be real white to hate on a nxgga for eating." (c) okp infin8
20. "would any other coach have survived the 2015 meltdown?" In response to Reply # 19
Yeah, PacMan and Burfict are close to impossible to control. And yeah, had Jeremy Hill just held on to the damn ball...But I just can't imagine any other franchise in football not firing the head coach after that disaster, especially considering it was the 5th straight 1st round loss.
And I do get OE's argument and don't 100% disagree with it. Me and you both would be worried that Brown could just hire Dave Shula 2.0 and bring us back to the dark ages. I'm even mostly ok with Marvin coming back next year, but if he can't get past the 1st round then, it's time for a change. But I think we both know, it would probably take a disaster of a season to force Mike Brown's hand to make a change. Because being better than the 90's is an acceptable bar to them.
22. "So you say stay this level forever?" In response to Reply # 21
Let's just say you could see the future and the future was 7-10 wins every year and no AFC titles. Do you take that forever?
No guarantees obviously, I'm asking you hypothetically do you take that over a complete question mark which could include AFC titles or could include being awful.
I roll the dice and go risky, sounds like you want the stability
29. "RE: At least we're mediocre and not the worst franchise in sports" In response to Reply # 28
>They should put that on the marketing material they send for >season ticket sales
People are going so overboard to defend guys. If MArv Lewis gets fired, there is literally zero argument that he didn't get a fair shake. And he will get another job if he wants one. If I had my way he could come coach my Bears TOMORROW over John Fox. TOMORROW.
But he is definitely fortunate to still be working in Cincinnati. He did a lot for them but 13 years is 13 years.
Funny how no one caped this hard for Lovie, at all. And Lovie>Marv
31. "History has seen teams on the verge change coaches and win" In response to Reply # 29
The Bucs and Colts both come to mind.
History has also seen teams make a change and backtrack a ton. It's the risk you run, but like you said 13 years is a long time - especially in today's NFL- and we've all see what Marv can do which is good but not enough to take the final step.
The defending of him basically is just boiling down to the Bengals should be happy enough to be in the upper mid level of teams and not ask for more.
34. "The Colts and Bucks actually help Marvin Lewis. " In response to Reply # 31
>The Bucs and Colts both come to mind.
Gruden won with Dungy's team, lead by a defense that Dungy built, and then proceeded to run the Bucs into the ground because he's actually not a very good coach. He essentially Barry Switzer'd that Bucs team, was lucky enough to get that defense in their prime.
Dungy went on to win a SB with a team that HE BUILT FROM SCRATCH (5-11). And then handed Jim Caldwell the team, and Caldwell was a Peyton Manning stupidest throw ever away from ANOTHER Super Bowl win. Caldwell was fired because "the team had reached it's max," even though he was ASKED TO TANK for Andrew Luck.
>History has also seen teams make a change and backtrack a ton. >It's the risk you run, but like you said 13 years is a long >time - especially in today's NFL- and we've all see what Marv >can do which is good but not enough to take the final step. > >The defending of him basically is just boiling down to the >Bengals should be happy enough to be in the upper mid level of >teams and not ask for more.
Like I said, fire him, and become mediocre.
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O_E: "Acts like an asshole and posts with imperial disdain"
35. "Someone to win with his team is EXACTLY what they need" In response to Reply # 34
He's not winning with a team that won't have a window forever.
Come in and Gruden that team, who cares if they fall apart after? Every Bengals fan would take a superbowl and falling off over staying consistently pretty good.
37. "RE: Except this Bengals defense is nowhere near as talented as Tampa's....." In response to Reply # 36
>was when Gruden took over, and outside of AJ Green they >mostly have mediocre talent on the offensive side. >
To be fair to Gruden, a guy who i think is vastly overrated, he himself left a SB contender to come coach the Bucs. And the team HE built (with Al Davis) then went on the it's own SB appearance.
So he has an argument that he was Dungy'd himself.
38. "Uh no. And his seat is hot as hell right today." In response to Reply # 30
And ita because he has no idea how to manage the clock, timeouts, challenges, end of game scenarios ("we were in lateral defense" smh), and all other executive functions of a head coach
If we didnt have Jim Bob and Teryl Austin hed have been fired already.
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