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Subject: "Ben Simmons on the NCAA (swipe)" Previous topic | Next topic
Warren Coolidge
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Wed Nov-02-16 02:07 PM

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"Ben Simmons on the NCAA (swipe)"


  

          

** I cannot thank the Sixers enough for not drafting Brandon Ingram. I am eternally greatful**

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/2673396-ben-simmons-comments-on-ncaa-in-new-documentary?utm_source=cnn.com&utm_medium=referral&utm_campaign=editorial

Ben Simmons Comments on NCAA in New Documentary

By Adam Wells , Featured Columnist Nov 1, 2016


Ben Simmons put the NBA's one-year college rule on notice in October when he stated on Twitter (h/t Andrew Joseph of For The Win) he didn't attend class last year at LSU. But now, the Philadelphia 76ers rookie is calling out the NCAA.

In a new Showtime documentary titled One & Done, which airs Friday, Simmons talked about his life in Australia followed by a lone season in college and preparations for the NBA draft, as well as his feelings regarding the NCAA.


"The NCAA is really f--ked up," Simmons said, per ESPN.com's Myron Medcalf. "Everybody's making money except the players. We're the ones waking up early as hell to be the best teams and do everything they want us to do and then the players get nothing. They say education, but if I'm there for a year, I can't get much education."

It's not a secret that Simmons didn't get a lot out of his college experience, at least as it pertains to being a student. He was deemed ineligible for the Wooden Award because he didn't meet the academic criteria when his GPA fell below 2.0, per Glenn Guilbeau of USA Today.

"You don't go to some classes. You miss some classes, and you're going to get punished," Simmons told Guilbeau. "That's how they handle it. I learned from it. I go to class now."

As part of the film, Simmons acknowledged he didn't want to go to class after getting his grades up to a point where he would be allowed to play for the Tigers.

"I got B's and C's; I'm not going to class next semester because I don't need to," Simmons said, per Medcalf. "... I'm here to play; I'm not here to go to school."

Simmons went on to say he viewed his collegiate experience as a waste of time because he wasn't there to get an education:


I don't have a voice. ... I don't get paid to do it. Don't say I'm an amateur and make me take pictures and sign stuff and go make hundreds of thousands of millions of dollars off one person. ... I'm going off on the NCAA. Just wait, just wait. I can be a voice for everybody in college. I'm here because I have to be here . ... I can't get a degree in two semesters, so it's kind of pointless. I feel like I'm wasting time.

While Simmons did not want anything to do with college classes, he did note in the documentary he was offered "a Wraith Rolls-Royce, watches, jewelry, a house...anything. It literally is anything. People coming at you, offering you things."

Emily Bush, Simmons' sister, said in the documentary she has receipts for all of the items her brother purchased during his time at LSU.

The NCAA's business and academic practices have been under fire for years. Wisconsin basketball star Nigel Hayes recently used Big Ten revenues to make a point:



The @bigten made nearly $450 million.

My scholarship is about $160,00.

If only there was enough money to pay us.. pic.twitter.com/EPV1d0I16X
— Nigel Hayes (@NIGEL_HAYES) October 14, 2016”

There will never be a consensus regarding whether to pay student-athletes. But Simmons exploited flaws in the system to keep playing basketball while awaiting his big payday in the NBA.

  

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Topic Outline
Subject Author Message Date ID
UK dodged one with that dude.
Nov 02nd 2016
1
I'm just mad he said you can't learn anything in a year of college.
Nov 02nd 2016
2
i'm disappointed but at the same time, he aint that wrong
Nov 02nd 2016
4
Right, *this* is the problem.
Nov 02nd 2016
6
      it was a waste to him because he had the wrong attitude
Nov 02nd 2016
7
There is a serious lack of self-awareness in this generation
Nov 02nd 2016
5
if nothing else he should've at least took a public speaking
Nov 02nd 2016
9
A lot of athletes at Duke took acting classes with me.
Nov 02nd 2016
10
Oh, fuck off
Nov 02nd 2016
15
Word to all this
Nov 02nd 2016
16
Yup
Nov 02nd 2016
19
Apologies for snooty wording.
Nov 02nd 2016
23
Epictetus said you *can* help what ruffles your feathers
Nov 02nd 2016
25
      As an educator, I appreciated this post.
Nov 03rd 2016
29
He wasn't there to get an education..
Nov 02nd 2016
28
you're tied up on semantics. he's right.
Nov 03rd 2016
30
      It's not worth what he should be receiving from the university, of cours...
Nov 03rd 2016
34
i figured his college experience was a waste of time bc he played at LSU
Nov 02nd 2016
3
FACT CHECKING SIMMONS'S COMMENTS:
Nov 02nd 2016
8
RE: FACT CHECKING SIMMONS'S COMMENTS:
Nov 06th 2016
42
dumb ass
Nov 02nd 2016
11
ITT: People shitting on a 19 year old.
Nov 02nd 2016
12
Yup. And he's righter than everybody in this thread.
Nov 02nd 2016
14
      RE: Yup. And he's righter than everybody in this thread.
Nov 02nd 2016
26
oy
Nov 02nd 2016
13
Pretty much
Nov 02nd 2016
18
He pimped the system and got what he wanted
Nov 02nd 2016
20
      this is nothing to be mad about
Nov 03rd 2016
41
Wait, we're criticizing him for this?
Nov 02nd 2016
17
Reply 8 is a nice summary.
Nov 02nd 2016
22
I suggest you are missing the point.
Nov 03rd 2016
35
      No, you're missing his point.
Nov 03rd 2016
39
OKP on old man status
Nov 03rd 2016
31
Anyone criticizing Simmons for speaking truth is apart of the problem.
Nov 02nd 2016
21
He's speaking about his truth...
Nov 02nd 2016
27
fuck him. go play his dumb ass in europe or japan. it works.
Nov 02nd 2016
24
^^mad because ben hurt and still having a better start than Sticky
Nov 03rd 2016
32
      there's no argument here that makes sense. just emotional BS
Nov 03rd 2016
36
NBA has to dump the 1 & done rule OR setup a real development system
Nov 03rd 2016
33
It won't happen until more elite prospects start going overseas.
Nov 03rd 2016
37
^^^^simple as that.
Nov 03rd 2016
38
new cba is kinda sorta dealing with that
Nov 03rd 2016
40
The D League is sloooooowly becoming a real minor league
Nov 06th 2016
43

TheRealBillyOcean
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Wed Nov-02-16 02:13 PM

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1. "UK dodged one with that dude. "
In response to Reply # 0


          

<---https://www.amazon.com/dp/B01DL9AVTQ

  

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Frank Longo
Member since Nov 18th 2003
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Wed Nov-02-16 02:16 PM

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2. "I'm just mad he said you can't learn anything in a year of college."
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

That is categorically false.

As an educator, it makes me sad to think that he gave such a lack of shits about where he was that he had zero interest in learning anything whatsoever from a single class.

He's right about the NCAA hypocrisy and all of that, obviously. And players like Simmons being outspoken about the unfairness on that front will continue to grow more common (Nigel Hayes is really leading the way in college, too) until inevitably they'll have to either allow players to profit off their own name and likeness or watch as the major conferences simply break away from the NCAA. Those are the only two paths on the horizon.

But the stuff he said about the uselessness of a year of school and his general disdain for the collegiate opportunity is really upsetting. Like, it doesn't have to be one or the other. You can learn a lot in your one year at school *and* still be correct that players are getting screwed.

My movies: http://russellhainline.com
My movie reviews: https://letterboxd.com/RussellHFilm/
My beer TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@thebeertravelguide

  

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thejerseytornado
Member since Dec 24th 2005
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Wed Nov-02-16 02:25 PM

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4. "i'm disappointed but at the same time, he aint that wrong"
In response to Reply # 2


  

          

perhaps he shouldn't have said "cant" but rather "it's really hard and it's not designed for that."

and at a school like LSU that's got so many classes built for students who DGAF in general that can also be used by/for athletics...yeah.


-----------
you think we playing chess, but i'm playing mad-making. Basaglia

  

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Frank Longo
Member since Nov 18th 2003
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Wed Nov-02-16 02:31 PM

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6. "Right, *this* is the problem."
In response to Reply # 4


  

          


>and at a school like LSU that's got so many classes built for
>students who DGAF in general that can also be used by/for
>athletics...yeah.

Some of the best classes I took at Duke had basketball/football players in them. Maybe they didn't see them as being as transformative as they were for me... but if you *want* to learn, there is ample opportunity even in an individual class. It's harder when your schedule is insane... but most quality educators *do* work really hard to make sure you still get a positive experience out of a class if you're an athlete.

I don't doubt that they were a waste... for him. But I guarantee there are countless NCAA-turned-NBA-players who did have classes they genuinely enjoyed and learned from in even a single semester at college. So words like that are disappointing. If he had zero desire to do any learning whatsoever or try to connect to a community of people in any way, he really *should* have just played overseas. He could've been immediately paid and still likely have been the top pick.

My movies: http://russellhainline.com
My movie reviews: https://letterboxd.com/RussellHFilm/
My beer TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@thebeertravelguide

  

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Warren Coolidge
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Wed Nov-02-16 02:35 PM

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7. "it was a waste to him because he had the wrong attitude"
In response to Reply # 6


  

          

>
>>and at a school like LSU that's got so many classes built
>for
>>students who DGAF in general that can also be used by/for
>>athletics...yeah.
>
>Some of the best classes I took at Duke had
>basketball/football players in them. Maybe they didn't see
>them as being as transformative as they were for me... but if
>you *want* to learn, there is ample opportunity even in an
>individual class. It's harder when your schedule is insane...
>but most quality educators *do* work really hard to make sure
>you still get a positive experience out of a class if you're
>an athlete.
>
>I don't doubt that they were a waste... for him. But I
>guarantee there are countless NCAA-turned-NBA-players who did
>have classes they genuinely enjoyed and learned from in even a
>single semester at college. So words like that are
>disappointing. If he had zero desire to do any learning
>whatsoever or try to connect to a community of people in any
>way, he really *should* have just played overseas. He could've
>been immediately paid and still likely have been the top pick.
>
going into all this...

His priorities are just terrible.....

along with the fact that even though he's talented he has serious question marks about how his game will translate to the NBA...

his skill level isn't at the point where he should be basketball or bust.... it just isn't...and even if it were, there are tons of guys who were better and smarter than he is who are broke right today...

  

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Warren Coolidge
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Wed Nov-02-16 02:27 PM

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5. "There is a serious lack of self-awareness in this generation"
In response to Reply # 2
Wed Nov-02-16 02:29 PM by Warren Coolidge

  

          

>That is categorically false.
>
>As an educator, it makes me sad to think that he gave such a
>lack of shits about where he was that he had zero interest in
>learning anything whatsoever from a single class.
>
>He's right about the NCAA hypocrisy and all of that,
>obviously. And players like Simmons being outspoken about the
>unfairness on that front will continue to grow more common
>(Nigel Hayes is really leading the way in college, too) until
>inevitably they'll have to either allow players to profit off
>their own name and likeness or watch as the major conferences
>simply break away from the NCAA. Those are the only two paths
>on the horizon.
>
>But the stuff he said about the uselessness of a year of
>school and his general disdain for the collegiate opportunity
>is really upsetting. Like, it doesn't have to be one or the
>other. You can learn a lot in your one year at school *and*
>still be correct that players are getting screwed.


The generation that utilized technology so much in their communication doesn't really understand the downside of communicating certain things publically... and how that forms an opinion in others that is detrimental for them...

Ben is entitled to his opinion about the NCAA..and in terms of the relationship between the NCAA and the players being exploitive to a certain degree he's correct..

but why on earth would you make a documentary that dismisses the value of an education...AND try and champion yourself as a spokesman for this when you didn't even go to class..

I mean presenting himself like that in a documentary shows he's completely unaware of how doing so would effect him...

I mean if I'm an advertising exec and I got to choose between Ben Simmons and a guy who isn't making a documentary expressing these views...Ben is out of luck.

wouldn't want any parts of this guy.....not because he's a bad guy...but because he's presenting himself in a way that's not necessarily appealing to parents of young people who DO value education, and who are telling their kids to go to class.

Ben Simmons needs to check out the Broke documentary and see that there are guys who were a lot more talented ...and smarter than he is that ended up broke..

plus he's doing all this before he's played 1 second in an NBA game, and he's got question marks about his game going in...

I can completely see why he's had issues with his relationships with teammates coming up....

and again, I can't thank the Sixers enough for not picking Ingram..

  

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BrooklynWHAT
Member since Jun 15th 2007
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Wed Nov-02-16 02:41 PM

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9. "if nothing else he should've at least took a public speaking"
In response to Reply # 2


  

          

and a PR class.

Public Speaking was dumb fun. Somehow I got put in the athletes class period for that and it was cool to see some of the quieter ones become more outgoing and confident as the class went on. Also cool to see some people realize they were smarter than they gave themselves credit for.

<--- Big Baller World Order

  

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Frank Longo
Member since Nov 18th 2003
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Wed Nov-02-16 02:45 PM

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10. "A lot of athletes at Duke took acting classes with me."
In response to Reply # 9


  

          

For precisely that reason. To get comfortable in front of crowds.

Also had a kid in there who is Trump's chief immigration policy advisor. Always wondered why a terrible actor like him kept taking acting classes. Now I know.

My movies: http://russellhainline.com
My movie reviews: https://letterboxd.com/RussellHFilm/
My beer TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@thebeertravelguide

  

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Walleye
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Wed Nov-02-16 06:00 PM

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15. "Oh, fuck off"
In response to Reply # 2


          

Nothing helpful has ever come from a sentence started with "as an educator."

He said a year doesn't constitute much of an education. As an educator, that sounds about right to me.

______________________________

"Walleye, a lot of things are going to go wrong in your life that technically aren't your fault. Always remember that this doesn't make you any less of an idiot"

--Walleye's Dad

  

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Premiere
Member since Sep 02nd 2005
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Wed Nov-02-16 06:04 PM

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16. "Word to all this"
In response to Reply # 15


  

          

  

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bshelly
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Wed Nov-02-16 06:29 PM

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19. "Yup"
In response to Reply # 15


  

          

----
bshelly

"You (Fisher) could get fired, Les Snead could get fired, Kevin Demoff could get fired, but I will always be Eric Dickerson.” (c) The God

  

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Frank Longo
Member since Nov 18th 2003
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Wed Nov-02-16 07:23 PM

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23. "Apologies for snooty wording."
In response to Reply # 15
Wed Nov-02-16 07:26 PM by Frank Longo

  

          

Can't help what ruffles my feathers. Other than that one phrase, I'm pretty sure everything else I said was totally fair, but I'll go fuck off now.

My movies: http://russellhainline.com
My movie reviews: https://letterboxd.com/RussellHFilm/
My beer TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@thebeertravelguide

  

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Walleye
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Wed Nov-02-16 08:23 PM

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25. "Epictetus said you *can* help what ruffles your feathers"
In response to Reply # 23


          

As an educator, what you need to understand is that Stoicism was formed in a rigorously determined ancient world. Like, a level of determinism that's wholly uncomfortable to spoiled moderns like us. It's an easy conclusion to come to if you're Zeno walking around in 4th century Athens and realizing that you could fucking die because you caught a cold or because a building fell over on you or because some random jerk's donkey kicked you in the head. And the social classes were similarly rigid, so even if you didn't drop dead of some grotesque accident or oozing malady, you were still born knowing exactly what your life was supposed to look like. Born a slave, like Epictetus in the first century, you're a slave.* Born an Emperor, like Epictetus' successor in the Stoic tradition Marcus Aurelius, you were going to be an emperor.

This is simultaneously horrifying and freeing, the latter because it doesn't winnow away choice so much as the illusion of choice. Now, as an educator, when I do this spiel for my students, I don't really bother with a lot of the weird physics of Stoicism since it's just kind of confusing. Expressing this determination as some sort of Divine Reason or "Logos" is for when they want to pursue this line of thought on their own (and, notably, requires more effort than the bare minimum bullshit I can give them in a single semester or a single year) and the introduction of the latter term is particularly confusing to students with any background in Christian thought.# Additionally, leaving the name out of the motivating force behind this determinism serves a kind of narrative purpose because it allows me to pull in some of the Greek pantheon of Gods to make the point about human/divine interaction being a losing proposition *and* because the ambiguity of the half-assed pantheism of the original Stoic system under Zeno and his immediate successors really did a lot to facilitate the whole wacky thing being easily grafted onto early Christian anthropology.

Basically, the immanence of the divine in the Stoic system can play as pantheism for the original practitioners, but characterizing the divine was such a low priority as they shifted ALL of their eggs into the ethical basket and the deeply pressing question of "how on earth do I live well in this arbitrary deterministic world?" that it really wasn't that difficult for early Christians engaging with Seneca to look at his work and say, "oh right. Logos. you're talking about the one true God."

Anyways, the point is that their thought was animated by that ethical question of what it means to pursue the good and to live right when you have literally no control over the events of your life, from slimy birth to grim fucking death. As an educator, this is where I start pointing my fingers at my kiddeaux to emphasize the cognitive gap between this ancient system and our enthusiasm for embracing the ridiculous lie that you can be anything you want to be. As a woefully underpaid educator, I take particular delight in informing a bunch of 18-22 year olds that shit is almost certainly not going to happen. And, furthermore, that it wont be dramatic like Alvin Mack destroying his knee in The Program. You'll just realize in hindsight that you're 40 and you're a sad person and you've probably been that way for at least a decade and a half.

This is why I prefer Epictetus. There's obviously efficiency of expression. The Enchiridion is short as hell and deeply pithy, which is swell because I'm lazy. But there's a clarity of expression which fits with the aforesaid winnowing theme in Stoicism. Very little interest in bullshit. Blessedly, Epictetus addressed your perverse understanding of human agency very directly in The Enchiridion when he wrote, "Some things are in our control and others not. Things in our control are opinion, pursuit, desire, aversion, and, in a word, whatever are our own actions. Things not in our control are body, property, reputation, command, and, in one word, whatever are not our own actions."

That's the result of the efficiency in will created within the Stoic system. You don't have control over anything that happens to your sweaty meatsack of a body in this shitty joke of a life. But you do have control over your opinion. And you have control over the things you decide to pursue, wherein failure to obtain them will make you unhappy. So, if something has ruffled your feathers, Epictetus would advise you to choose within the extraordinarily limited but equally powerful window for your free will and to not be ruffled.

The durability of this system is fascinating, since we've largely resisted the worldview on which it is based. But it fit well within the framework of early Christendom, as I mentioned previously, and we be-churched dummies have a hard time giving that up.

*as a slight cheat, Epictetus actually received his freedom at the beginning of his career - but, as an educator, I don't typically bother with this part of the narrative to my students because we're building systems of thought and not (yet) operating as castrated fact deliverers.

#though I don't really get those. lots of capital-C Christians, but more of the Jesus-was-nice-so-you-should-be-nice too ones who get their child-dosage Evangelicalism in some ridiculous gym basement with Pastor Trent and his stupid guitar.

______________________________

"Walleye, a lot of things are going to go wrong in your life that technically aren't your fault. Always remember that this doesn't make you any less of an idiot"

--Walleye's Dad

  

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thejerseytornado
Member since Dec 24th 2005
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Thu Nov-03-16 08:29 AM

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29. "As an educator, I appreciated this post."
In response to Reply # 25


  

          


-----------
you think we playing chess, but i'm playing mad-making. Basaglia

  

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Warren Coolidge
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Wed Nov-02-16 11:16 PM

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28. "He wasn't there to get an education.."
In response to Reply # 15


  

          

>Nothing helpful has ever come from a sentence started with
>"as an educator."
>
>He said a year doesn't constitute much of an education. As an
>educator, that sounds about right to me.

He was there to play ball...

  

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will_5198
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Thu Nov-03-16 09:25 AM

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30. "you're tied up on semantics. he's right."
In response to Reply # 2
Thu Nov-03-16 09:25 AM by will_5198

          

15 credits of gen ed requirements, while your main "job" at the university is to help the basketball team win from 6 am until 11 pm, ain't worth much.

--------

  

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Frank Longo
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Thu Nov-03-16 10:21 AM

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34. "It's not worth what he should be receiving from the university, of cours..."
In response to Reply # 30


  

          

I merely objected to the assertion that it had no worth. I think you can learn a lot in a year-- even in limited class time-- while also being 100% right that the NCAA is a piece of shit and the education you receive isn't nearly worth the amount of revenue you bring in.

But as you pointed out and as I admitted elsewhere, I'm getting caught on something tangential to his main point. His main point is obviously something with which I strongly agree.

My movies: http://russellhainline.com
My movie reviews: https://letterboxd.com/RussellHFilm/
My beer TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@thebeertravelguide

  

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BrooklynWHAT
Member since Jun 15th 2007
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Wed Nov-02-16 02:22 PM

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3. "i figured his college experience was a waste of time bc he played at LSU"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

dont blame that shit on school lol.

<--- Big Baller World Order

  

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Frank Longo
Member since Nov 18th 2003
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Wed Nov-02-16 02:41 PM

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8. "FACT CHECKING SIMMONS'S COMMENTS: "
In response to Reply # 0


  

          


"The NCAA is really f--ked up," Simmons said, per ESPN.com's Myron Medcalf. "Everybody's making money except the players."

TRUE.

"We're the ones waking up early as hell to be the best teams and do everything they want us to do and then the players get nothing."

FALSE. He woke up early as hell to be on an awful team and get nothing.

"They say education, but if I'm there for a year, I can't get much education."

FALSE. You can't get a degree, but plenty of future NBA players have either graduated in three or left early and finished over summers. From harder universities than LSU.

"I got B's and C's; I'm not going to class next semester because I don't need to," Simmons said, per Medcalf. "... I'm here to play; I'm not here to go to school."

TRUE.

“I don't get paid to do it. Don't say I'm an amateur and make me take pictures and sign stuff and go make hundreds of thousands of millions of dollars off one person."

TRUE.

"I can be a voice for everybody in college."

HALF-TRUE. He can be a voice re: the unfairness of compensation, but guaranteed he's not representing a ton of players with his views on education.

"I'm here because I have to be here."

1000% FALSE. He absolutely would've been paid millions to play overseas for one year. He chose the more comfortable route, a route where coaches will kiss his ass for a year instead of benching him for not being more polished and professional than experienced players, a route where he's closer to family and speaks the native language. For 99% of players, they do have to go to college... but this is very, very false for Simmons.

"I can't get a degree in two semesters..."

TRUE.

"... so it's kind of pointless."

HALF-TRUE. It's pointless for him, because he doesn't give a shit about a degree, but the vast majority of college athletes-- and a large portion of those who leave for the NBA before senior year-- end up eventually using their class credit during their time at school towards a degree.

"I feel like I'm wasting time."

TRUE. He was at LSU.

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ConcreteCharlie
Member since Nov 21st 2002
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Sun Nov-06-16 08:35 AM

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42. "RE: FACT CHECKING SIMMONS'S COMMENTS: "
In response to Reply # 8


  

          

>"We're the ones waking up early as hell to be the best teams
>and do everything they want us to do and then the players get
>nothing."
>
>FALSE. He woke up early as hell to be on an awful team and get
>nothing.

It's not exactly false just because his team happened to suck. Most of the players are busting their asses (the overwhelming majority) and a ton of the guys who play their full eligibility are not graduating either.

>"They say education, but if I'm there for a year, I can't get
>much education."
>
>FALSE. You can't get a degree, but plenty of future NBA
>players have either graduated in three or left early and
>finished over summers. From harder universities than LSU.

What does that have to do with what you can get out of ONE year? And guys finishing in three or getting a masters in five are great, but they are less common than guys playing 4-5 years and still not graduating. Not only are they generating a lot of money for free, a lot of them are not getting the education that is supposedly the silver lining, let alone the one and done guys who definitely are just getting some intro courses and pussy out of the deal.



>"I can be a voice for everybody in college."
>
>HALF-TRUE. He can be a voice re: the unfairness of
>compensation, but guaranteed he's not representing a ton of
>players with his views on education.

I feel like he could have kept this to himself for a while but whatever, he is a kid shooting off his mouth and most of what he is saying is also true.

>"I'm here because I have to be here."
>
>1000% FALSE. He absolutely would've been paid millions to play
>overseas for one year. He chose the more comfortable route, a
>route where coaches will kiss his ass for a year instead of
>benching him for not being more polished and professional than
>experienced players, a route where he's closer to family and
>speaks the native language. For 99% of players, they do have
>to go to college... but this is very, very false for Simmons.

How many guys have gone that route? He is not American but he attended high school in the U.S. We can count on our fingers the number of guys who have gone from U.S. high schools to foreign pro leagues to get to the NBA. And none of them were especially successful. The NCAA is still the number one feeder and the top amateur level competition. Going overseas would have been riskier for him and it's questionable whether or not it would be good for his development. Even in other sports where this is more common, you don't see that route all that often. In baseball, hockey, soccer, they play for lower level club teams or go to academies or play amateur competition (junior leagues, college, etc). I guess Auston Matthews is a recent, notable exception, but I don't know if the jury is back yet on teenagers playing against developed men being ideal for their development or not.


>HALF-TRUE. It's pointless for him, because he doesn't give a
>shit about a degree, but the vast majority of college
>athletes-- and a large portion of those who leave for the NBA
>before senior year-- end up eventually using their class
>credit during their time at school towards a degree.

I'd have to see the numbers on that and of course we have to separate the basketball players at Cincinnati and football players at Florida State from the scholarship athlete in fencing or swimming at Vandy or Bucknell here. Talking big-time college programs? I would say a lot of guys don't finish their degrees and the NBA guys who do it are usually not going back and killing it, they are just finishing for appearances or family commitments or something.

>"I feel like I'm wasting time."
>
>TRUE. He was at LSU.

lol

And you will know MY JACKET IS GOLD when I lay my vengeance upon thee.

  

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Tiger Woods
Member since Feb 15th 2004
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Wed Nov-02-16 04:56 PM

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11. "dumb ass"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

  

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Ryan M
Member since Oct 21st 2002
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Wed Nov-02-16 05:00 PM

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12. "ITT: People shitting on a 19 year old."
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

Is everything he said true and fair? No. Is it mostly true? Yep. Could YOU have crystalized this better when you were one year removed from high school? Probably not.

Honestly I just love when people move the movement to get these NCAA players paid, personally.

------------------------------

17x NBA Champions

  

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bignick
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14. "Yup. And he's righter than everybody in this thread. "
In response to Reply # 12


  

          

  

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murph71
Member since Sep 15th 2005
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Wed Nov-02-16 09:10 PM

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26. "RE: Yup. And he's righter than everybody in this thread. "
In response to Reply # 14


          




This^^^^^^^

GOAT of his era......long live Prince.....God is alive....

  

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themaddfapper
Member since Mar 09th 2010
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Wed Nov-02-16 05:08 PM

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13. "oy"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

coulda gone to AIS for a year.
Coulda gone to the NBL

if swoosh told you that you had to be stateside for your brand to grow? that's on you.
if your (future) representation told you to be here for a year to grow your brand, on you.
if you were doing your godfather a favor, that's on you.

The NCAA can be super problematic, however Simmons had more options than most w/ regard to having to deal w/ the NCAA in order to get to the next step.

  

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TheRealBillyOcean
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18. "Pretty much"
In response to Reply # 13


          

<---https://www.amazon.com/dp/B01DL9AVTQ

  

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bshelly
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Wed Nov-02-16 06:36 PM

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20. "He pimped the system and got what he wanted"
In response to Reply # 13


  

          

This is an expression of his frustration st the time expressed in the form of a touchdown dance for which no one can penalize him 15 yards.

If you're mad, think about the organization on whose behalf you're mad and how many billions of dollars they've kept from the people who actually do the work.

----
bshelly

"You (Fisher) could get fired, Les Snead could get fired, Kevin Demoff could get fired, but I will always be Eric Dickerson.” (c) The God

  

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themaddfapper
Member since Mar 09th 2010
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Thu Nov-03-16 11:18 AM

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41. "this is nothing to be mad about"
In response to Reply # 20


  

          

i can be mad about the country I was born and raised in still treating me and mine like the 3/5 compromise was last week.

and I've been dealing with the NCAA w/in the last 2 months. They're fucktards.

Simmons didn't have to do go. He did. Them's the breaks.

  

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bshelly
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17. "Wait, we're criticizing him for this?"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

Why, exactly? And what is he wrong about?

----
bshelly

"You (Fisher) could get fired, Les Snead could get fired, Kevin Demoff could get fired, but I will always be Eric Dickerson.” (c) The God

  

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Frank Longo
Member since Nov 18th 2003
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Wed Nov-02-16 07:22 PM

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22. "Reply 8 is a nice summary."
In response to Reply # 17
Wed Nov-02-16 07:25 PM by Frank Longo

  

          

Everything that is anti-NCAA is 100% on the money. It's the other shit.

I'm not really mad at any of it except for the implication that student-athletes can't learn anything in two semesters. What they learn obviously isn't worth what they should be receiving (I've been a consistent advocate for players having the right to profit off of name and likeness), but he should've left one's ability to learn in a year or semester or even a single class out of it IMO.

But I suppose I shouldn't shoot a messenger with worthwhile news just because I object to some other shit he said. Again, I agree wholeheartedly with all the anti-NCAA stuff.

My movies: http://russellhainline.com
My movie reviews: https://letterboxd.com/RussellHFilm/
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denny
Member since Apr 11th 2008
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Thu Nov-03-16 10:24 AM

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35. "I suggest you are missing the point."
In response to Reply # 22
Thu Nov-03-16 10:25 AM by denny

          

We could make 40 year old plumbers take a year in college in order to continue plumbing too. If they complain about it would we lecture them about the potential value of a year in college? Say 'We're just trying to make you well-rounded....it's for your own good'?

The point is....he doesn't WANT to go to school. Why attempt to persuade him otherwise? He should be able to achieve his goal of playing NBA basketball without having a prerequisite year in college.

  

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Frank Longo
Member since Nov 18th 2003
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Thu Nov-03-16 10:37 AM

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39. "No, you're missing his point."
In response to Reply # 35


  

          

His point is that the NCAA doesn't fairly compensate its players and pretends that the scholarship is worth the revenue they bring in. And he's right-- it's not.

He, like several other elite prospects, absolutely does have the option of playing NBA ball without going to college by playing overseas for a year. Brandon Jennings did it. Emmanuel Mudiay did it. This year, Terrance Ferguson is doing it. More and more players will continue to do it. And coming from overseas himself, he knew it was an option to immediately receive one's worth in the form of monetary compensation/shoe deals/etc.

If he was making the primary argument you said he was making, he would be mad at the NBA, not the NCAA, because the NCAA doesn't enforce one-and-done, the NBA does. No one can blame the NCAA for that. (And one-and-done IS a bullshit rule and people should be mad at the NBA for enforcing it.)

You can, however, blame the NCAA for grossly unfair compensation compared to incoming revenue. The fact that players can't profit from their name and likeness and take the deals being offered to them is ludicrous and always has been. .

>The point is....he doesn't WANT to go to school. Why attempt
>to persuade him otherwise? He should be able to achieve his
>goal of playing NBA basketball without having a prerequisite
>year in college.

My movies: http://russellhainline.com
My movie reviews: https://letterboxd.com/RussellHFilm/
My beer TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@thebeertravelguide

  

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will_5198
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Thu Nov-03-16 09:25 AM

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31. "OKP on old man status"
In response to Reply # 17


          

--------

  

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Case_One
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Wed Nov-02-16 06:48 PM

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21. "Anyone criticizing Simmons for speaking truth is apart of the problem. "
In response to Reply # 0


          


.
.
.

  

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Warren Coolidge
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Wed Nov-02-16 11:13 PM

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27. "He's speaking about his truth..."
In response to Reply # 21


  

          

I'm certainly not criticizing him for that...

as much as I am forming an opinion about him based on what he's saying..

that's what people do....You say shit...people form opinions about what you say...


What benefit is it to Ben Simmons making a documentary saying the things he's saying before he's played a minute in the NBA?

It's not a good look....

the attitude and priorities don't seem to be in his best interest really...


again, I'm glad the Lakers have Ingram.... I didn't want dude...I see why he didn't get along with his teammates.....


I'm pretty sure Chris Washburn and Dontonio Winfield had the same opinions coming into the league..... and young people who may go through what they went through or worse are watching and listening to Ben Simmons says and does.....

The N*gga needs to get on the court and knock down some shots in a real NBA game before he dismisses doing things that may keep him from going broke...

  

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Basaglia
Member since Nov 30th 2004
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Wed Nov-02-16 08:19 PM

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24. "fuck him. go play his dumb ass in europe or japan. it works. "
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

____________________________________________________


Steph: I was just fooling about

Kyrie: I wasn't.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R8OWNspU_yE

  

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bshelly
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32. "^^mad because ben hurt and still having a better start than Sticky"
In response to Reply # 24


  

          

----
bshelly

"You (Fisher) could get fired, Les Snead could get fired, Kevin Demoff could get fired, but I will always be Eric Dickerson.” (c) The God

  

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Basaglia
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Thu Nov-03-16 10:26 AM

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36. "there's no argument here that makes sense. just emotional BS"
In response to Reply # 32
Thu Nov-03-16 10:31 AM by Basaglia

  

          

he could've played ANYWHERE else and got paid a million+ and still been taken top 2. and i'm supposed to side with his struggle to get his ass up for practice and class when he signed up for it to bolster his brand?

please.

take a step back.

this whole thing reminds me of don king speaking on mike tyson. mike say he wanted 40 mil for a fight. don gets it for him and cakes like fuck off licensing and mike get mad because he ain't think about all that and say don owe more, years after the fact. don like "but, i gave you what you wanted."

these YOUNG MEN AND THEIR HANDLERS wanna boost their marketability (which will yield millions in endorsements) before they step on an NBA court. cool. figure out another way to do it if you can't take your ass to class for FOUR MONTHS. and if you feel the NCAA is taking advantage of the dumb ones...well, how the fuck they even get in position to go to college. who pushed them along? their high schools? the teachers? the AAU system?

the ONLY thing the NCAA should be doing is allowing these kids to profit off their own images. if someone wanted simmons to star in their car commercial, he should be allowed to do it without losing eligibility.

the rest of this shit is a cyse, shells. people can throw out "BILLIONS" and "KIDS" and "GET NOTHING" all they want and make crude, cheap allusions to slavery and all that bullshit. bottomline: don't take your ass to COLLEGE if you don't wanna uphold your end of the TRANSACTION. because that's all it is. the game is the game.

edit: and all this pitch-forking in recent years about the NCAA has coincided with Carolina have fake classes that date back to Dean that they pushed their basketball players to take. but, nobody can't say that because then they'd be an asshole. but, when have i ever been worried about that?

____________________________________________________


Steph: I was just fooling about

Kyrie: I wasn't.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R8OWNspU_yE

  

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B9
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Thu Nov-03-16 09:58 AM

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33. "NBA has to dump the 1 & done rule OR setup a real development system"
In response to Reply # 0


          

They are buck passing and putting the schools in really awkward situations by both making that stupid rule and not putting their own money into a real development system. Just say you can't sign a full pro contract until you are 18 but can play wherever and for whomever until then. Then you can have AAU teams with direct ties and sponsorships to NBA clubs and the NCAA doesn't get a cheapened product from kids that are just using them to bypass the NBA's dumb rule and maybe the schools get some kids that do want some sort of college education or experience out of it (but should also be getting some kick-backs, possibly in the form of an escrow salary available on graduation).

But NBA owners are mostly chickenshit so whatever, won't happen.

  

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Frank Longo
Member since Nov 18th 2003
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Thu Nov-03-16 10:26 AM

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37. "It won't happen until more elite prospects start going overseas."
In response to Reply # 33


  

          

Which will start happening more and more, largely thanks to people like Simmons and Nigel Hayes and the others who speak up and acknowledge the unfairness of the current set-up. It will also happen because neither the NBA nor the NCAA will change a damn thing unless their hands are forced by declining profits or quality of play. It's why you hear NBA teams talking about forcing two-and-done instead of abolishing one-and-done-- they believe it will lead to higher quality product while the elite prospects will play for free for two years in nationally televised games, serving as free advertising for future stars.

I said here a while ago, either the NCAA will find a way to compensate players or the major conferences will split. I expect this to happen sooner rather than later, because more players will speak out, more people will protest bullshit arbitrary NCAA violation rule enforcement, and more elite prospects will simply bypass this system entirely by going overseas.

My movies: http://russellhainline.com
My movie reviews: https://letterboxd.com/RussellHFilm/
My beer TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@thebeertravelguide

  

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Basaglia
Member since Nov 30th 2004
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Thu Nov-03-16 10:33 AM

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38. "^^^^simple as that. "
In response to Reply # 33


  

          

____________________________________________________


Steph: I was just fooling about

Kyrie: I wasn't.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R8OWNspU_yE

  

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themaddfapper
Member since Mar 09th 2010
7558 posts
Thu Nov-03-16 11:15 AM

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40. "new cba is kinda sorta dealing with that"
In response to Reply # 33


  

          

but it's 7 years long but it's a 1/2 measure that won't really fix it.
belief is all teams will have a dleague team in 2020
two way contracts/more roster spots for end of the bench/development guys.

the real trick is HS.
graduate in 4 years legit.
take the post grad and play at any number of schools/circuits that allow you to play like comp or slightly below to not affect your stock, declare, and have an NBA team be willing to take the shot on you.

  

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ConcreteCharlie
Member since Nov 21st 2002
71387 posts
Sun Nov-06-16 08:38 AM

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43. "The D League is sloooooowly becoming a real minor league"
In response to Reply # 33


  

          

Being team owned and affiliated is a start. It's not all the league's fault, part of having a real minor league is changing contract structure (e.g. minor league deals in MLB and two-way/entry-level contracts in the NHL) and the NBAPA ain't having that.

Once more guys opt for alternative routes and the NCAA isn't this massive development system that the NBA can throw a bone here or there, things will change. I am fine with the system as is but I do look forward to the day that players can develop at a more measured pace. You have a lot of guys who are top 10-15 picks who go through six teams in four years or get given up too soon (think Austin Rivers, Thomas Robinson) and of course the guys who get overlooked (think Ben Wallace). It shouldn't be that way,

And you will know MY JACKET IS GOLD when I lay my vengeance upon thee.

  

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