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Lobby Okay Sports topic #2438236

Subject: "Grade the fighter" Previous topic | Next topic
John Forte
Member since Feb 22nd 2013
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Tue Apr-21-15 08:11 AM

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"Grade the fighter"
Tue Apr-21-15 08:15 AM by John Forte

          

I name a fighter, you give him a letter grade. RIGHT TODAY.

  

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Topic Outline
Subject Author Message Date ID
Timothy Bradley
Apr 21st 2015
1
A-
Apr 21st 2015
17
B/B+
Apr 21st 2015
26
A-
Apr 21st 2015
41
solid B
Apr 21st 2015
42
B+
Apr 21st 2015
46
B+ could be A if he used his smarts
Apr 21st 2015
74
Danny Garcia
Apr 21st 2015
2
B
Apr 21st 2015
18
B/B+
Apr 21st 2015
19
RE: Danny Garcia
Apr 21st 2015
43
Mauricio Herrera might disagree too
Apr 21st 2015
44
      RE: Mauricio Herrera might disagree too
Apr 21st 2015
62
B
Apr 21st 2015
47
B fundamentally solid
Apr 21st 2015
75
Amir Khan
Apr 21st 2015
3
B-
Apr 21st 2015
11
WHAT? Khan fights are pure excitement
Apr 21st 2015
37
      be honest with you, I hated the way he fought collazo
Apr 21st 2015
39
A-
Apr 21st 2015
16
A-
Apr 21st 2015
20
A-
Apr 21st 2015
48
B+
Apr 21st 2015
53
B good speed, power movement but
Apr 21st 2015
76
Terrence Crawford
Apr 21st 2015
4
B+
Apr 21st 2015
14
Incomplete
Apr 21st 2015
15
B+ (at least)
Apr 21st 2015
28
A-
Apr 21st 2015
57
B
Apr 21st 2015
59
GGG
Apr 21st 2015
5
A-
Apr 21st 2015
13
A-
Apr 21st 2015
30
A-
Apr 21st 2015
49
A (my favorite right now)
Apr 21st 2015
56
B+ need to see him against better comp.
Apr 21st 2015
77
Guillermo Rigondeaux
Apr 21st 2015
6
A-/A
Apr 21st 2015
12
A/A+
Apr 21st 2015
31
A-
Apr 21st 2015
54
Erislansy Lara
Apr 21st 2015
7
B+
Apr 21st 2015
10
A-
Apr 21st 2015
38
Manny Pacquiao
Apr 21st 2015
8
A+
Apr 21st 2015
9
A+
Apr 21st 2015
58
A -
Apr 21st 2015
61
A
Apr 21st 2015
73
A - has speed power endurance great brawling
Apr 21st 2015
78
B-Hop
Apr 21st 2015
21
A+ (but right today is a B/B+)
Apr 21st 2015
29
It pains me to say, but B
Apr 21st 2015
45
Why does it pain you to say? He's 50 fucking years old.
Apr 21st 2015
51
A+ career
Apr 21st 2015
52
Career: A+ Right now: *sheds tear*
Apr 21st 2015
63
Why the tear? He lost to an outstanding fighter.
Apr 21st 2015
66
      thats my point...
Apr 21st 2015
71
In prime he is an A+ fighter
Apr 21st 2015
79
Adonis Stevenson
Apr 21st 2015
22
B+
Apr 21st 2015
60
B
Apr 21st 2015
67
B+
Apr 21st 2015
72
Adrien Broner
Apr 21st 2015
23
B+
Apr 21st 2015
34
B+
Apr 21st 2015
36
B
Apr 21st 2015
55
B
Apr 21st 2015
64
B-
Apr 21st 2015
68
Canelo
Apr 21st 2015
24
A
Apr 21st 2015
33
B+
Apr 21st 2015
40
A-
Apr 21st 2015
50
A-
Apr 21st 2015
65
A-
Apr 21st 2015
69
Kell Brook
Apr 21st 2015
25
Peter Quillin
Apr 21st 2015
27
B-
Apr 21st 2015
32
B
Apr 21st 2015
35
Try to put some rationales in (or below) your posts, if possible
Apr 21st 2015
70

John Forte
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1. "Timothy Bradley"
In response to Reply # 0


          

  

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John Forte
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17. "A-"
In response to Reply # 1


          

  

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Orbit_Established
Member since Oct 27th 2002
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Tue Apr-21-15 09:18 AM

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26. "B/B+"
In response to Reply # 1


  

          


Textbook B+ class fighter

He doesn't have the gifts or skill to beat a great
fighter on their good day

But FEW work harder, are more disciplined than Bradley,
and so he's had an A grade career because of it

When he fought Pacquiao...it really was a pretty major
discrepancy in talent...Pacquiao is a full grade better


----------------------------



O_E: "Acts like an asshole and posts with imperial disdain"




"I ORBITs the solar system, listenin..."

(C)Keith Murray, "

  

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T Reynolds
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Tue Apr-21-15 09:34 AM

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41. "A-"
In response to Reply # 1


  

          

  

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bnicedh
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42. "solid B"
In response to Reply # 1


  

          

  

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Vex_id
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46. "B+"
In response to Reply # 1


          


-->

  

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Musa
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74. "B+ could be A if he used his smarts"
In response to Reply # 1


  

          

<----

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(HIP HOP)
http://aquil.bandcamp.com

  

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John Forte
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2. "Danny Garcia"
In response to Reply # 0


          

  

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John Forte
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18. "B"
In response to Reply # 2


          

  

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Orbit_Established
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19. "B/B+"
In response to Reply # 2


  

          


He was looking A class after Matthysse

But this guy has NOT worn success very well

Doesn't seem to do anything particularly well at this
point

Leaky defense, no pop, takes rounds off

I don't get it

Moving up is going to be a disaster for this guy


----------------------------



O_E: "Acts like an asshole and posts with imperial disdain"




"I ORBITs the solar system, listenin..."

(C)Keith Murray, "

  

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bnicedh
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Tue Apr-21-15 09:55 AM

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43. "RE: Danny Garcia"
In response to Reply # 2


  

          

A...he hasn't lost (though Peterson might feel different)

  

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John Forte
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44. "Mauricio Herrera might disagree too"
In response to Reply # 43


          

He made us think a completely washed Zab might have something left in the tank, and Khan was COMPLETELY outclassing him before he got caught.

He hasn't looked good since the Mathysse fight.

  

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bnicedh
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62. "RE: Mauricio Herrera might disagree too"
In response to Reply # 44


  

          

All your points are true...and Matthyse looks like he hits hard. Bound to leave a lasting affect.

  

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Vex_id
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47. "B"
In response to Reply # 2


          


-->

  

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Musa
Member since Mar 08th 2006
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75. "B fundamentally solid "
In response to Reply # 2


  

          

May need better training.

<----

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John Forte
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Tue Apr-21-15 08:12 AM

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3. "Amir Khan"
In response to Reply # 0


          

  

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T Reynolds
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11. "B-"
In response to Reply # 3


  

          

Just from a fan perspective I can't stand watching him fight

Plus he has a british accent

  

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John Forte
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Tue Apr-21-15 09:25 AM

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37. "WHAT? Khan fights are pure excitement"
In response to Reply # 11


          

He may have the quickest hands in the business, great footwork, legitimate pop and a glass chin. That's a recipe for excitement.

  

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T Reynolds
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Tue Apr-21-15 09:33 AM

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39. "be honest with you, I hated the way he fought collazo"
In response to Reply # 37


  

          

That was a guy he was SUPPOSED to beat, but he did it in a way that was frustrating to watch

put a brawler with limited skills in front of him who can take punishment and all of a sudden he's scared to box?

He's technically very good, I agree, but to actually be invested in a fight like I was in Provodnikov / Matthysse, there's gotta be some grit.

  

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Orbit_Established
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16. "A-"
In response to Reply # 3
Tue Apr-21-15 09:15 AM by Orbit_Established

  

          


I've said it before:

Outside of Pacquiao, Mayweather, and Wlad, the only fighter
(any weight class) that I'm CONVINCED has supreme slam
dunk hall of fame boxing TALENT is Amir Khan (everyone else
has shit to prove).

I know, the production hasn't matched the skills.

But anything a guy is *this* gifted he's liable to have
a good two year run and fuck around, clean out a division.

Closest example was that Zab Judah run when he beat Corey
Spinks, damn near put Mayweather on the mat....Zab didn't
finish the job because...he's Zab, but he had a good little
run because he's talented and loves to fight

I think Khan is more gifted and at his best is better than
Judah is at his best (which is saying something)

So Khan is still relevant

I haven't given up

----------------------------



O_E: "Acts like an asshole and posts with imperial disdain"




"I ORBITs the solar system, listenin..."

(C)Keith Murray, "

  

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John Forte
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20. "A-"
In response to Reply # 3


          

  

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Vex_id
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48. "A-"
In response to Reply # 3


          


-->

  

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bnicedh
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53. "B+"
In response to Reply # 3


  

          

  

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Musa
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76. "B good speed, power movement but"
In response to Reply # 3


  

          

Gets sloppy has a baby chin.

<----

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(HIP HOP)
http://aquil.bandcamp.com

  

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John Forte
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4. "Terrence Crawford"
In response to Reply # 0


          

  

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T Reynolds
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14. "B+"
In response to Reply # 4


  

          

I don't agree with waiting for the 6th to destroy Dulorme. It shows poise and patience, but even better fighters are hesitant to cruise through rounds.

  

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Orbit_Established
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15. "Incomplete"
In response to Reply # 4


  

          


Remember when Timothy Bradley and Devon Alexander were at
Crawford's stage and we thought both were Hall of Famers?

He looks like the goods, but I'm not biting, pause

----------------------------



O_E: "Acts like an asshole and posts with imperial disdain"




"I ORBITs the solar system, listenin..."

(C)Keith Murray, "

  

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John Forte
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28. "B+ (at least)"
In response to Reply # 4


          

  

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Vex_id
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57. "A-"
In response to Reply # 4


          


-->

  

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bnicedh
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59. "B"
In response to Reply # 4


  

          

and rising...but I am suspect of this one.

  

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John Forte
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5. "GGG"
In response to Reply # 0


          

  

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Orbit_Established
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13. "A-"
In response to Reply # 5


  

          


No one is more wary of these big boppers than OE

But he *does* seem to be able to fight

Only being able to box will elevate him into that
next tier

And I want to see him vs. better competition


----------------------------



O_E: "Acts like an asshole and posts with imperial disdain"




"I ORBITs the solar system, listenin..."

(C)Keith Murray, "

  

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John Forte
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30. "A-"
In response to Reply # 5


          

  

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Vex_id
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49. "A-"
In response to Reply # 5


          


-->

  

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bnicedh
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56. "A (my favorite right now)"
In response to Reply # 5
Tue Apr-21-15 10:16 AM by bnicedh

  

          

needs better opponents though...

  

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Musa
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77. "B+ need to see him against better comp."
In response to Reply # 5


  

          

I don't see him doing well against a great boxer. See Ward

<----

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http://aquil.bandcamp.com

  

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John Forte
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6. "Guillermo Rigondeaux"
In response to Reply # 0


          

  

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Orbit_Established
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12. "A-/A "
In response to Reply # 6
Tue Apr-21-15 09:09 AM by Orbit_Established

  

          

The man has skills. Not great physical gifts, but
that level of pure boxing skill doesn't grow on trees.

He's not a spring chicken, but can still remain
relevant for a long time.

That beating of Donaire was something else: he outclassed,
completely, a fighter we all thought was grade A.

He is missing some killer instinct...doesn't seem to finish
the job (note: I don't necessarily mean KO power....Floyd
has a way of going in for the kill without necessarily
knocking out opponents, for example)

But the man has skills, no denying


----------------------------



O_E: "Acts like an asshole and posts with imperial disdain"




"I ORBITs the solar system, listenin..."

(C)Keith Murray, "

  

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John Forte
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31. "A/A+"
In response to Reply # 6


          

  

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Vex_id
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54. "A-"
In response to Reply # 6


          


-->

  

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John Forte
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7. "Erislansy Lara"
In response to Reply # 0


          

  

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Orbit_Established
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10. "B+"
In response to Reply # 7


  

          


All the Cuban kids seem to have the same set of
attributes:

Supreme boxing IQ, they love the sport, but most are
missing *one thing* that prevents them from being truly
dominant.

Lara has never been beaten badly, and will go a long
time before he is. He's a tough draw.

----------------------------



O_E: "Acts like an asshole and posts with imperial disdain"




"I ORBITs the solar system, listenin..."

(C)Keith Murray, "

  

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John Forte
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38. "A-"
In response to Reply # 7


          

He beat Paul Williams, and you could aargue that he beat Canelo.

  

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John Forte
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8. "Manny Pacquiao"
In response to Reply # 0


          

  

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Orbit_Established
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9. "A+"
In response to Reply # 8


  

          


Maybe the best southpaw ever, and among the 25 best fighters
pound for pound ever.

That's A+ class.


----------------------------



O_E: "Acts like an asshole and posts with imperial disdain"




"I ORBITs the solar system, listenin..."

(C)Keith Murray, "

  

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Vex_id
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58. "A+"
In response to Reply # 8


          


-->

  

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bnicedh
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61. "A -"
In response to Reply # 8


  

          

that knockout the only thing that keeps me from giving him an A +

  

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T Reynolds
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73. "A"
In response to Reply # 8


  

          

He got knocked out, period. Can't be the best ever with that.

That said, I think he has actually grown as a fighter after the KO, and that shows he is adaptable and has learned to fight smarter.

One of the most exciting fighters in the sport, power in both hands, outstanding footwork, incredible stamina and chin, complex combinations, fearless, and a likeable guy on top of that.

He brings an element of fighting that is somehow not boxing to boxing. He has coasted when up in the scorecards but has never took a round off or looked anything less that professional out there.

  

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Musa
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78. "A - has speed power endurance great brawling"
In response to Reply # 8


  

          

ability.

<----

Soundcloud.com/aquil84

(HIP HOP)
http://aquil.bandcamp.com

  

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John Forte
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21. "B-Hop"
In response to Reply # 0


          

  

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Orbit_Established
Member since Oct 27th 2002
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29. "A+ (but right today is a B/B+)"
In response to Reply # 21


  

          


Remember: losing to Kovalez does not a bum make

He is still a very relevant light heavyweight, and
can be most non-Kovalev guys

Hell, I think he'd give Adonis Stephenson a good fight



----------------------------



O_E: "Acts like an asshole and posts with imperial disdain"




"I ORBITs the solar system, listenin..."

(C)Keith Murray, "

  

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John Forte
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45. "It pains me to say, but B"
In response to Reply # 21
Tue Apr-21-15 10:04 AM by John Forte

          

.

  

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Orbit_Established
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51. "Why does it pain you to say? He's 50 fucking years old. "
In response to Reply # 45
Tue Apr-21-15 10:22 AM by Orbit_Established

  

          

And is still a good light heavyweight.


----------------------------



O_E: "Acts like an asshole and posts with imperial disdain"




"I ORBITs the solar system, listenin..."

(C)Keith Murray, "

  

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Vex_id
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52. "A+ career"
In response to Reply # 21


          


-->

  

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bnicedh
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63. "Career: A+ Right now: *sheds tear* "
In response to Reply # 21


  

          

  

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Orbit_Established
Member since Oct 27th 2002
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66. "Why the tear? He lost to an outstanding fighter."
In response to Reply # 63


  

          


He's a clear B-grade light heavyweight at this
point

Nothing to be ashamed of.

He obviously should hang them up because of his age,
but there's no shame in a beating by Kovalev

Kovalev could beat guys literally half Hopkins' age
the same way or worse

----------------------------



O_E: "Acts like an asshole and posts with imperial disdain"




"I ORBITs the solar system, listenin..."

(C)Keith Murray, "

  

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bnicedh
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71. "thats my point..."
In response to Reply # 66


  

          

that beating he took is not B-Hop. One of the greatest defensive fighters ever getting beat like that!?!? IMHO its because of age and its 'time'...my fear is the next one is going to come from a B list/C list fighter.

  

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Musa
Member since Mar 08th 2006
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Tue Apr-21-15 11:18 AM

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79. "In prime he is an A+ fighter"
In response to Reply # 21


  

          

sadly he ain't get spot light till he was 36. Only knock you can give B hop is he wasn't physically great at anything which made him master his boxing ability.

<----

Soundcloud.com/aquil84

(HIP HOP)
http://aquil.bandcamp.com

  

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John Forte
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22. "Adonis Stevenson"
In response to Reply # 0


          

  

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Vex_id
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60. "B+"
In response to Reply # 22


          


-->

  

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John Forte
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67. "B"
In response to Reply # 22


          

I just don't believe

  

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bnicedh
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72. "B+"
In response to Reply # 22


  

          

Something is missing but you cannot recognize that knockout power. Dude is a beast...

  

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John Forte
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23. "Adrien Broner"
In response to Reply # 0


          

  

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John Forte
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34. "B+"
In response to Reply # 23


          

  

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Orbit_Established
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36. "B+"
In response to Reply # 23


  

          


I was actually impressed in his Molina fight

I saw some stylistic growth

He (and we) have waaaay oversold his natural gifts, though

----------------------------



O_E: "Acts like an asshole and posts with imperial disdain"




"I ORBITs the solar system, listenin..."

(C)Keith Murray, "

  

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Vex_id
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55. "B"
In response to Reply # 23


          


-->

  

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bnicedh
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64. "B"
In response to Reply # 23
Tue Apr-21-15 10:40 AM by bnicedh

  

          

No suspense...look like all of his fights are 'forced' but when the action is forced on him!!! Well we know what happened...

  

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Lach
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68. "B-"
In response to Reply # 23


  

          

  

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John Forte
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24. "Canelo"
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Orbit_Established
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33. "A"
In response to Reply # 24


  

          


Has got excellent natural hand speed, pop, and defense

Seems to have good corner, and be in the hands of the right
people

Is young

Big issue for him is weight class

Will his power stay with him as he goes up?

Two things happen to guys when they go up to 160

1) They find that it's their natural lane, and they look
fantastic (Roy Jones Jr, Winky Wright, many others)

2) They lose their intimidation and power, end up just
another guy (De La Hoya, Trinidad, and probably Paul
Williams)

The key is: Canelo is a big boy and he CAN box.

And box well.

I think he'll be fine.

He'll have a great career. Not A+, though.



----------------------------



O_E: "Acts like an asshole and posts with imperial disdain"




"I ORBITs the solar system, listenin..."

(C)Keith Murray, "

  

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T Reynolds
Member since Apr 16th 2007
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Tue Apr-21-15 09:33 AM

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40. "B+"
In response to Reply # 24


  

          

  

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Vex_id
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50. "A-"
In response to Reply # 24


          


-->

  

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bnicedh
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65. "A-"
In response to Reply # 24


  

          

Retired Shane and only lost is Floyd, no shame in that.

  

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Lach
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69. "A-"
In response to Reply # 24


  

          

  

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John Forte
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25. "Kell Brook"
In response to Reply # 0


          

  

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John Forte
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27. "Peter Quillin"
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John Forte
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32. "B-"
In response to Reply # 27


          

  

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Orbit_Established
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35. "B"
In response to Reply # 27


  

          


I'm simply not sure what he does well

I guess he can punch pretty well

I do like him a lot, though

He'll give us some exciting fights


----------------------------



O_E: "Acts like an asshole and posts with imperial disdain"




"I ORBITs the solar system, listenin..."

(C)Keith Murray, "

  

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Orbit_Established
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70. "Try to put some rationales in (or below) your posts, if possible"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          


Mine are mostly in the body of my grades

Great post, btw

----------------------------



O_E: "Acts like an asshole and posts with imperial disdain"




"I ORBITs the solar system, listenin..."

(C)Keith Murray, "

  

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