Awesome read, the second hand smoke notwithstanding.

https://medium.com/the-cauldron/an-open-letter-to-charles-barkley-co-cb5c4e64cf3

An Open Letter To Charles Barkley & Co.
Yes, I have a “problem,” but it’s not the one all of you seem to think it is.
By Josh Gordon
(AP)

Dear Sir Charles, Stephen A., Cris and other interested parties,

Thank you for your recent outpouring of concern about my well being. In what has been a difficult time for my family, friends and fans, you — and those like you — have taken it upon yourselves to express just how much you care about me and my future. For that, I am truly appreciative.


The thing is, though, you don’t even know me.
Chuck, you have never so much as shook my hand, let alone exchanged a single word with me. Few of you have, to be honest. Respectfully, your worry over my “problems” with substance abuse and my twisting descent into darkness and, apparently, my impending death, is misplaced — mostly because you have very little idea what you are talking about. None of you do, even those of you who seem curiously obsessed with the goings-on in my life:


You’re done with me, Stephen A.? That presumes we ever actually got started. How, exactly, can you be “done” with someone you have never had a meaningful conversation with beyond a quick First Take spot? Regardless, I am relieved that you no longer need to harbor sympathy for me — mostly because I never asked for it, never wanted it, and certainly never needed it. I am not a victim here; I never claimed to be one, either.

And Cris, your level of interest in my life is even more puzzling, especially considering we have never met, either.


In addition to being concerned about me — like when you publicly called for the Browns cut me so I could learn the same lessons you learned — you also stated as fact that “we are dealing with addiction here.” Know this: We are not dealing with anything, Cris. We are not the same. Not at all.

So, in the interest of lifting the heavy burden of my welfare off your collective consciences, I’d like to set the record straight about a few things.


First, words cannot express the remorse and regret I feel over this latest incident. I acknowledge that the repeated transgressions that have led up to this point have damaged my credibility, and for that, the only person to blame is me.

I have let down many in Cleveland — my Browns teammates, our hard-working coaching staff, the team’s ownership, and the loyal fan base that wants nothing more than to win. Playing there is different than in many other cities. We feel the fans’ pain. We know how important this is to them.

Also, I have disappointed the family and close friends who have always stood by me — no matter how tough things have been at certain points in my life. Believe me, there have been more dark days than I care to remember.

Most importantly, I have failed myself. Again.

I failed myself when started using marijuana regularly as a young teenager. I failed myself when I ruined a once-in-a-lifetime chance to be Robert Griffin III’s running mate during his Heisman Trophy-winning season at Baylor. I failed myself when I didn’t check with the league office to ensure that my doctor-prescribed, codeine-based medicine was allowed under NFL guidelines. I failed myself when I was arrested for driving a motor vehicle with a blood-alcohol level over the legal limit. I failed myself when I missed a team walkthrough late in the season and was suspended for the final game of the year.

But you know what, Charles, Stephen A., Cris and everyone else? I also have succeeded.

I succeeded by escaping a youth riddled with poverty, gang violence and very little in the way of guidance or support. I succeeded by narrowly avoiding a life of crime that managed to sink its clutches into almost all of my childhood friends. I succeeded by working tremendously hard on my craft and my body to even have a chance to play professional football for a living. And, contrary to popular belief, I succeeded by overcoming my longstanding relationship with weed — because I knew I was risking my future over it.

Truth is, I have not smoked marijuana since before I was drafted by the Browns in 2012 — and there are years’ worth of drug tests to prove it.
So, then how did I get here, you ask? That’s easy. I messed up. But to even begin to understand why I messed up, you need to know the Josh Gordon that existed before the NFL.


(AP)
I don’t speak of it often, and even less so publicly, but I faced a fair amount of hardship growing up. My father was pretty much out of the picture, which left my mom to fend for herself with three sons at home. She did the best she could, but there were large stretches of time as an adolescent when I was completely alone — with no supervision, no one to guide me, and no one to keep me in line.

We lived in a poor section of Houston called Fondren, and to say it was a rough place would be putting it lightly. The other kids in the neighborhood weren’t well off, either, but it always felt like we had even less to our name. We moved at least seven times, and things were so bad sometimes, there were days I would come home from school and there would be no electricity, heat or hot water.

Over time, particularly after my older brothers moved out, I started hanging out with the wrong kind of people. The kind who would think nothing not only of carrying guns, but using them. Back then, smoking marijuana wasn’t an addiction for any of us — we were still boys, basically. It was just what everyone did. It was everywhere, just like alcohol was.

So Charles, Stephen A., Cris — you judge me now, but what if you came from where I come from? Heck, maybe you did experience similar upbringings, but I wouldn’t know, because I do not know you. Each of you have dealt with more than your fair shares of self-inflicted controversies, though, that I do know.

Again, I make no excuses for my past. That culture didn’t make me do anything I didn’t want to do, but when you judge me without actually knowing me, you deny the existence of the world I come from.
Later, when I went to college, it was like a dream come true, but in retrospect, I wasn’t ready for it. I had to have that opportunity taken away from me before I could really look within myself and decide what I wanted for my future. Was I going to continue to break rules to get high, or was I going to get straight and make the most of my God-given talents?

I made my choice when it came to the NFL, and I haven’t wavered.

Now, I messed up again. It happened about four weeks ago.

As most everyone knows, I missed a considerable portion of the 2014 season because I was suspended by the league. The details in relation to my reinstatement, however, are important to understand.

In connection with the DWI case, the league — in consideration of the fact that my blood-alcohol level was just .01 over the legal limit — agreed to shorten my punishment from four games lost to two. These games were tacked on to my eight-game suspension that had been levied on account of my inadvertently inhaling second-hand marijuana smoke last offseason.

That punishment — while harsh, given what my lab results clearly showed, including a backup sample that was under the league threshold — was just. I foolishly put myself in a precarious situation, one which I could have easily avoided if I had thought more clearly about the potential ramifications of my actions and who I chose to spend time around.

As a strict condition to my reinstatement in Week 12, I had to agree not only to abstain from drinking for the rest of the season, but also to submit to an alcohol screen as part of my in-season drug testing under the league’s substance-abuse protocol. Did I think that was excessive given I had never had any issue whatsoever with alcohol? Yes. Did I think it was hypocritical that a professional league making hundreds of millions of dollars off beer sponsorships was telling me not to drink? Yes. Did I so much as blink at the condition? No.

My primary concern was — and is — being the best football player I can be; I really didn’t even view it as much of a punishment or sacrifice.

On Jan. 2 of this year, just days after our season ended earlier than we all had hoped — and yes, my actions during the prior offseason definitely contributed to our failure to make the playoffs; it killed me seeing our guys fight so hard when I wasn’t out there with them — I boarded a private flight to Las Vegas with several teammates. During the flight, I had two beers and two drinks. It was the first time I had consumed so much as a drop of alcohol since July 4, 2014, the day of the DWI.

Anyone who knows me knows that I am not much of a drinker. Even calling me a social drinker would be an exaggeration, but at that moment, on that flight, I made a choice. The wrong choice, as it turned out.

Upon landing, I received the all-too-familiar notice by phone that I was to report to a testing location within four hours. I failed the test, obviously, and the rest is history … colored by media speculation and faux outrage.

In the end, of course, I failed myself.

It doesn’t matter if I thought that the league-imposed restriction on drinking had expired at the end of the regular season; what matters is that I didn’t confirm whether or not that was the case. Now, that oversight has further jeopardized my relationship with my team and our fans, my reputation, and maybe even my career.

So that’s it, Charles & Co.

These are the actual facts surrounding my situation, and these are my words. What comes next is uncertain. I haven’t decided whether to appeal the latest suspension. That’s a matter for my agent and me to discuss.

To those of you who traffic in lies and innuendo over fact, with seemingly no consequences for your actions …


I really don’t know how you get away with it.

What I do know is the following: I am not a drug addict; I am not an alcoholic; I am not someone who deserves to be dissected and analyzed like some tragic example of everything that can possibly go wrong for a professional athlete. And … I am not going to die on account of the troubled state you wrongly believe my life to be in. I am a human being, with feelings and emotions and scars and flaws, just like anyone else. I make mistakes — I have made a lot of mistakes — but I am a good person, and I will persevere.

If I have a “problem,” it is that I am only 23 years old — with a lot left to learn. I’ve come a long way from those mean Fondren streets, but it’s clear that I can be a better me — one who kids coming up to me for selfies and autographs can be proud of. I want that future for myself. And I truly believe that what I am going through right now will only make me stronger. I believe that my future is bright.

If you see me someday, Chuck, Stephen A., Cris, or any other well-intentioned person to whom this letter is directed, please come on over, shake my hand, and say hello. I won’t be holding a grudge, but I will expect you to admit you were wrong about me.

Sincerely,

Josh Gordon, No. 12

---------------------------------------------------------

Hopefully he can keep himself out of those precarious situations from now on...it just significantly increases the risk that you're going to make another bad decision, and all it takes is one moment of weakness to cave in. Environment plays such a huge role in determining behaviors, and I'm sincerely hoping he realizes he needs to change his.

---------------------------------
<--The drought is over

"have fun reveling in your pettiness tho" (C) Dula summing up 98% of OKS

"I didnt finish a damn thing...matter of fact I jerked off after she left."
-Kobe speaking to investigators

L D E A

these cats are on tv to opine.
if you kept out of shit, they'd opine on your play.
you keep getting into shit, and they don't have the details, so they opine on yo life.
this is what comes with hundreds of thousands of bucks kiddo.

and if you had a guy in your life, who rolled with you 24/7, and would either a) punch you dead in your face if you even *looked* like you were about to fuck shit up or b) the notion of disappointing him was so great you wouldn't think of stepping out of line, this shit wouldn't happen.

but you didnt, and here you is. enjoy the year off.

And is probably about 14.5 times smarter.

And does less dumb shit than you did at 23.


----------------------------



O_E: "Acts like an asshole and posts with imperial disdain"




"I ORBITs the solar system, listenin..."

(C)Keith Murray, "

smarter? subjective.
less dumb stuff? relative. his stakes were far higher than mine at the same age.
shrug.

>smarter? subjective.
>less dumb stuff? relative. his stakes were far higher than
>mine at the same age.

No, that's an arbitrary and baseless double standard. He
plays a sport for a living. I wouldn't trust you to hold
my chain for 5 minutes, but if you've worked at something
as simple as a McDonald's (and had direct input on the food
that goes in someone's mouth) than your job actually had
"higher stakes," in that your professional fuckups affected
more people directly.

So you being an idiot nigga who flips burgers is actually
worse than being an idiot who catches touchdowns. Your fuckups
can spread Salmonella, and give people the deadly, bloody
shits.

Gordon's fuckups just makes an already shitty franchise
even shittier.

So please, shut that shit up, you bloody shits spreading ass
nigga.





----------------------------



O_E: "Acts like an asshole and posts with imperial disdain"




"I ORBITs the solar system, listenin..."

(C)Keith Murray, "

>you keep getting into shit, and they don't have the details,
>so they opine on yo life.
>this is what comes with hundreds of thousands of bucks kiddo.
>

---------------------------------------------------------

>
>>you keep getting into shit, and they don't have the details,
>>so they opine on yo life.
>>this is what comes with hundreds of thousands of bucks
>kiddo.

We have such low expectations of human beings.

If your job is to be a sports journalist, you could do
actual journalism. You could write interesting stories.
Talk about interesting things.

Not sure where "moral police" showed up in the job description.

It doesn't have to be this way.

We allow it to be that way.


----------------------------



O_E: "Acts like an asshole and posts with imperial disdain"




"I ORBITs the solar system, listenin..."

(C)Keith Murray, "

Anti-gentrification, cheap alcohol & trying to look pretty in our twilight posting years (c) Big Reg


Get 25% off www.karmaloop.com w/ rep code JR9103 |
Nike, G-Star, Herschel, Adidas (Men's & Women's clothing)

------------------------------------
2019 CABG Survivor

2016 OK Survivor Champion

be about it or be without it

RIP GOATs

I'll let you guys know how that works out for me. If it doesn't go my way.....

Jason Terry face

<---https://www.amazon.com/dp/B01DL9AVTQ

clearly a thoughtful individual who realizes his mistakes and is owning up for the most part. but there's some red flags here too. he says he can't understand why the league banned him from alcohol and that he's never had a problem with it, but he's got a DUI on his record.

and the situations he described-- inhaling secondhand smoke, two drinks on a plane, not realizing the ban extended into the offseason-- sound harmless, but when there's millions of dollars and your career on the line, these mistakes are enormous and staggeringly dumb. you should be punching anyone in the face who even offers you a drink. you should be able to recite the league substance abuse policy by heart.

like i said, he's mostly owning up, but there's some semi excuse making here that would bother me if i'm a coach/owner deciding on his future. the mindset he has of feeling like his mistakes are understandable makes me think he's probably gonna fall into some more "understandable" mistakes again.

"i smack clowns with nouns, punch herbs with verbs..."

- vowing not to make the same mistakes that submarined his college career...yet he's been suspended three of four seasons in the NFL, each progressively longer in term.
- talks about his dedication as a player and how much the team means to him...yet he doesn't even bother to come to practice once they're eliminated.
- rejects the idea he has any substance abuse problems…yet he’s been booked for a DWI and suspended three separate times for “substance abuse.”

he’s got a point about the moralizing (media and public faux outrage is one of the worst current trends) and gross exaggerations of his mistakes. and he seems contrite about those mistakes. but those are just words for now.

--------

So I'll roll with that agenda for now

Gordon at 23 > everyone mad @ 23, 24, 25

*skatin' the rings of saturn*


..and miles to go before i sleep...

*STU*

----------------------------



O_E: "Acts like an asshole and posts with imperial disdain"




"I ORBITs the solar system, listenin..."

(C)Keith Murray, "

*skatin' the rings of saturn*


..and miles to go before i sleep...

*STU*

My inbox is full of people telling me they sign up to
just to read my posts, that I've gotten them through rough
times, and recently have offers to review rock albums and
write about sports for $$$, all of which I've turned down
to post shit for free for THIS community to share and
experience....all because this is my first digital family, if
there is such a thing

Not asking for thanks, but I'm gonna go ahead and roll with
how I've been, and if I get banned, I'm good with that.

Just another racial double standard that I'm good with

No disrespect, I recognize that you've got a job to do, and
I think you're a good dude, seriously

But ban away, I'm not changing.

----------------------------



O_E: "Acts like an asshole and posts with imperial disdain"




"I ORBITs the solar system, listenin..."

(C)Keith Murray, "

..i never asked you to change anything (and i approached you about this respectfully through inbox).

i respect your opinion on most things, regardless of the delivery. you have your own way of approaching topics and that's cool. *congrats on being recognized for your reviews.

what's not cool is the way you often address/attack others who might have contrasting views (currently on display in this thread, replies #7 & #14).

like i've already stated: i'm not asking you to change your opinion. i'm asking you to voice it respectfully without attacking others.

if you choose to ignore this, then there's really nothing more to discuss.


*skatin' the rings of saturn*


..and miles to go before i sleep...

*STU*

Y'all gonna fuck around and make a martyr out of me.

Board is more fun with me around, people who don't like
me will even admit that


----------------------------



O_E: "Acts like an asshole and posts with imperial disdain"




"I ORBITs the solar system, listenin..."

(C)Keith Murray, "

..not really sure what racial double standard you're referring to, but this has nothing to do with race.

more importantly: why is it so difficult for you to curb the racial slurs and attack/aggressive nature of your replies to people that are merely voicing their opinions?

no one is questioning your intelligence or ability as a writer and no one is asking you to change your opinions. again, just find a more respectful way of voicing your opinion.




*skatin' the rings of saturn*


..and miles to go before i sleep...

*STU*

You've done good service as a moderator

I'll listen

----------------------------



O_E: "Acts like an asshole and posts with imperial disdain"




"I ORBITs the solar system, listenin..."

(C)Keith Murray, "

"Big bad OE talked about me on the internet and called me a dumbass, how shall I survive?" - OKP_User


LOL! Let that boy OE cook!

>what's not cool is the way you often address/attack others who
>might have contrasting views (currently on display in this
>thread, replies #7 & #14).
>


Anti-gentrification, cheap alcohol & trying to look pretty in our twilight posting years (c) Big Reg


Get 25% off www.karmaloop.com w/ rep code JR9103 |
Nike, G-Star, Herschel, Adidas (Men's & Women's clothing)

yet he has a DUI and he just took two drinks that ended his 2015 season and cost him millions of dollars. like, sure you're not passed out every weekend, but risking and losing that amount of money puts you easily in the top 1% of people who have problems with alcohol. he has a massive substance abuse problem. the fact that he doesn't seem to realize that is extremely troubling.

"i smack clowns with nouns, punch herbs with verbs..."

________________________________________
"Take the surprise out your voice Shaq."-The REAL CP3
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v2H5K-BUMS0

..but then again, neither has the media.

they voiced their opinions about the issues that plague his career (on & off the field). regardless of what we might think about the media, that's part of their job.

none of this changes the fact that he's fucking up his opportunities at an incredible career.

perhaps he has a career in writing?




*skatin' the rings of saturn*


..and miles to go before i sleep...

*STU*

that was a very mature response.

at 23, he's done some age-appropriate, borderline dumb stuff. Since the league has a hard on for "justice" he got caught up.

people dont want to allow for any nuance or complexity. its just he's dumb, losing millions, blah blah.

smh.

Now jammed up in the league 3 or 4 times, he probably does have some sort of a problem.

And that problem doesnt go away cuz he's charismatic, speaks so well, great as his job, or writes a tight blog post.

C'mon I'm not the only muthafucka who's seen "Flight". He's gotta deal with that shit and stop making excuses.

<---https://www.amazon.com/dp/B01DL9AVTQ

which was how most of us learned it as well.

it might take him time to undo some bad habits and relationships but i am not going to kill him for making basic mistakes for which the consequences far outweigh the crime or doubt that he can make the right choices moving forward.

You got to fuck up in the quiet of your own reality.

That's the problem here.


----------------------------



O_E: "Acts like an asshole and posts with imperial disdain"




"I ORBITs the solar system, listenin..."

(C)Keith Murray, "

I don't think anybody with sense cares what a pundit says about him on tv.

But for his well being, he has to stop doing what they tell him not to do.

Because right now, that's all most people know about him.

And that's the same for any young dude regardless of their job. You work in customer service, stop being a no call no show. Dont huff an L in the parking lot after work.

Because that, "Hey baby, I'm young and learning" wears thin on everybody in an instant.

Josh just needs to make better decisions. Because up to this point he has a long history of bad ones.

<---https://www.amazon.com/dp/B01DL9AVTQ

He just told us he makes bad decisions and that he
needs to make smarter ones.


----------------------------



O_E: "Acts like an asshole and posts with imperial disdain"




"I ORBITs the solar system, listenin..."

(C)Keith Murray, "

Dont worry about Chuck or Stephen A. or make excuses or try to explain himself. Because the public isn't gonna believe him with his history of transgressions.

Cuz what he doesnt want to be is 32 yrs old like Iverson sitting in a press conference still talking about, "I'm young. Still learning."

<---https://www.amazon.com/dp/B01DL9AVTQ

>Dont worry about Chuck or Stephen A. or make excuses or try
>to explain himself. Because the public isn't gonna believe him
>with his history of transgressions.

That's not the point.

If terrible human beings are criticizing him and calling
him an "addict" then its perfectly within his right, and
appropriate even, to remind these dickheads that they've
never had a conversation with him, and are more than likely
spectacularly wrong in their assessment.

Like he alluded to -- if they *cared*, as all three said
they did, they would simply find a way to contact him,
maybe sit down with him over a burger and talk about the
problem

They don't, because they are exploiting a situation for
personal gain, which is lamentable.

So he's right.

And all within it, he criticized himself for his issues.

Its really not that difficult to understand.




>Cuz what he doesnt want to be is 32 yrs old like Iverson
>sitting in a press conference still talking about, "I'm young.
>Still learning."

Okay. That's his business, though. And Iverson had problems
much different than Gordon.


----------------------------



O_E: "Acts like an asshole and posts with imperial disdain"




"I ORBITs the solar system, listenin..."

(C)Keith Murray, "

Assessing his behavior and judging his character

>Assessing his behavior and judging his character

He's not addressing a news story about his problems.

He's not addressing people talking about how its unfortunate
that he's had those problems.

He SPECIFICALLY ADDRESSING a VERY PARTICULAR point about
the people making the judgement, and this fake "care" and
sentimentality.

Its terrible people stepping on a man for notoriety and
fame under the guise of "care" and "concern."

That's exactly what he's talking about.

----------------------------



O_E: "Acts like an asshole and posts with imperial disdain"




"I ORBITs the solar system, listenin..."

(C)Keith Murray, "

And not put quotes around problem.

Because from a clinical standpoint his behavior indicates that he is.

Only addicts drink after multiple suspension and a DWI with more professional repercussions hanging over him.

I don't think so

I think I just like to hump

But I'm willing to not hump if a good episode of
Sanford and Son is on or if I need a nap

Point is, that "addict" shit is thrown around too liberally,
and often there are perfectly good explanations to explain
behavior without conjuring "addiction"

What's funny is, Gordon's characterization of himself is WORSE
than an addict

Its a rational person who makes dumbass decisions
repeatedly

He admitted that

If so, did you continue to perform that behavior? Were you caught again?

What about work; has your sexual behavior ever gotten you disciplined at work 3 times, jeopardizing your professional future?

Afterwards did you go around denying that you had a sex addiction?

Unless your answer to every single one of those questions is "yes", dont compare yourself to Josh Gordon.

And you keep going on about how he said he did stupid things, but thats not honest self assessment. Thats the kind of thing an addict would say if he were attempting to appease people who would enable him by helping him avoid treatment. And considering that you seem thoroughly appeased, its a good thing you arent part of Gordon's life for his sake.

You had a point way back in the beginning but you are WAY off base now.

we are swimming in addicts, everywhere but colorado and washington. weird.

arrests = addiction? then theres a whole lot of addicted people functioning normally in life after their addiction-based DUI. nevermind the time my dad told me that was the drunkest he'd ever driven one time (not stopped by cops) or the time I drove drunk but didn't get pulled over after a bad breakup and some friends trying to cheer me up. one cop car away from addiction! and the only reason i haven't been busted for weed is because my job doesn't test for weed. ADDICT!

gordon might have a substance problem. but what he describes as having happened isn't a substance problem. if second hand smoke can cause a positive test, that's not addiction. if he had two drinks on a plane trip, that's not addiction. it was against the rules, but it's not an addiction.

and that matters because we judge addicts differently. by calling him an addict, you don't bother to question why the fuck the NFL gets to say someone can't have a drop of alcohol at all. by calling him an addict, you don't bother to question why the NFL tests for weed.

-----------
Y'all stupid...should've tanked for Lebron/Wiggins in 2014 -Rex LongFellow

Its 2014...there are computers in glasses and people stunt after hitting the ball far. Get over it. -Cenario

It's only funny till someone gets mad. Then it's hilariou

maybe the NFL should ease the hell up on the way it treats substance issues w/players.

maybe Josh isn't the one w/the problem.

his 'problem' doesn't look so bad to me - but i see ppl w/actual substance abuse problems everyday. so my perception is seasoned.

fuck you.

>we are swimming in addicts, everywhere but colorado and
>washington. weird.

Why are you taking the multifaceted clinical evidence of a substance abuse problem and boiling it down to arrest = addiction?

We arent talking about one guy with one arrest as the only negative outcome of using.

>arrests = addiction? then theres a whole lot of addicted
>people functioning normally in life after their
>addiction-based DUI. nevermind the time my dad told me that
>was the drunkest he'd ever driven one time (not stopped by
>cops) or the time I drove drunk but didn't get pulled over
>after a bad breakup and some friends trying to cheer me up.
>one cop car away from addiction!

Thats a great story but i dont understand the relevance. Unless you had already faced multiple instances of official consequence for drinking, your anecdote is not relevant to the situation at hand.

and the only reason i haven't
>been busted for weed is because my job doesn't test for weed.
>ADDICT!

Right, but if it did, and you were caught more than once, that is a clinical sign of substance abuse. This isnt my fucking opinion lol. CLINICAL SIGNS.

>gordon might have a substance problem. but what he describes
>as having happened isn't a substance problem.

Shocking that someone would deny having a problem. And ive definitely never heard of someone with a substance abuse problem lying about their use. Never ever.

>if second hand
>smoke can cause a positive test, that's not addiction.

Thats a big if lol

>if he
>had two drinks on a plane trip, that's not addiction. it was
>against the rules, but it's not an addiction.

In and of itself, of course not. But when he is bound to follow probationary rules at his job because of earlier discipline related to drinking, thats a positive sign. And again, that is NOT my opinion. That is a clinical diagnostic.

>and that matters because we judge addicts differently. by
>calling him an addict, you don't bother to question why the
>fuck the NFL gets to say someone can't have a drop of alcohol
>at all.
>by calling him an addict, you don't bother to question
>why the NFL tests for weed.

This dude's continued using is bringing his professional life down around him. He isnt you drinking and driving one night after a bad breakup. I mean...cmon.

EDIT: did you even read the post you were replying to? Because your whole post seems to be aimed directly at the subject line.

>Why are you taking the multifaceted clinical evidence of a
>substance abuse problem and boiling it down to arrest =
>addiction?

big words that mean nothing. there's no clinical evidence of anything, there's just a history of suspensions.

>We arent talking about one guy with one arrest as the only
>negative outcome of using.

no, we're talking about a guy who has failed tests that were so stringent, second-hand smoke counted. tests that continued after his season was over when he thought they ended when his season was over.

>Thats a great story but i dont understand the relevance.
>Unless you had already faced multiple instances of official
>consequence for drinking, your anecdote is not relevant to the
>situation at hand.

official consequences aren't good definitions of an addiction problem because official consequences are distributed unequally. Were I in a different job, i'd have faced multiple consequences. am i less addicted simply because i'm in a career that doesn't drug test?

>Right, but if it did, and you were caught more than once, that
>is a clinical sign of substance abuse. This isnt my fucking
>opinion lol. CLINICAL SIGNS.

then those signs are, unsurprisingly (and htis is a larger problem with psychological definitions of disorders), easily manipulable by social rules. For example, "anxiety" is much more common in states with medical marijuana. are people just more anxious in california than pennsylvania? i doubt it.

>Shocking that someone would deny having a problem. And ive
>definitely never heard of someone with a substance abuse
>problem lying about their use. Never ever.

shocking that you assume the worst about someone you don't know. well, shocking's not the word. sad. unempathetic. judgmental. those are better words.

>Thats a big if lol

but they did have to raise the limit after gordon's test...hmmm...it is the dumbfuck conservative nfl...hmmm...

>In and of itself, of course not. But when he is bound to
>follow probationary rules at his job because of earlier
>discipline related to drinking, thats a positive sign. And
>again, that is NOT my opinion. That is a clinical
>diagnostic.

and if the mistake was, as he describes, him thinking the season was over after his last game and not the "league year" (march something, i think), is that a sign of addiction? fuck and no.

>This dude's continued using is bringing his professional life
>down around him. He isnt you drinking and driving one night
>after a bad breakup. I mean...cmon.

i mean, he drank and drove once that we know of. I've drunk and driven at least once that we know of. the only difference is I DIDN'T GET CAUGHT.

edit re your edit: well, then your subject line was dumb. and the rest of your article still doesn't consider the possibility that the testing measures used against Gordon were potentially extremely restrictive to the point where a shit-ton of people would be deemed addicts.
-----------
Y'all stupid...should've tanked for Lebron/Wiggins in 2014 -Rex LongFellow

Its 2014...there are computers in glasses and people stunt after hitting the ball far. Get over it. -Cenario

It's only funny till someone gets mad. Then it's hilariou

That seems to be a projection of yours that me saying that he exhibits strong clinical signs of substance abuse = me determining his "worth"

>big words that mean nothing. there's no clinical evidence of
>anything, there's just a history of suspensions.

That IS the clinical evidence. How do you think these determinations are made? Just wait until someone turns up with a ring of glue around his mouth? The continued use despite repeated professional and personal consequences of use, is something that psychology defines as evidence of substance abuse. Im sorry if you dont want that to be the case, but it is.


>no, we're talking about a guy who has failed tests that were
>so stringent, second-hand smoke counted.

Thats alleged and, medically speaking, highly unlikely

>tests that continued
>after his season was over when he thought they ended when his
>season was over.

So he went straight to use without bothering to determine if it was professionally acceptable? That doeant seem like problem behavior to you?

> official consequences aren't good definitions of an addiction
>problem because official consequences are distributed
>unequally. Were I in a different job, i'd have faced multiple
>consequences. am i less addicted simply because i'm in a
>career that doesn't drug test?

Id guess that were you in a different job, your behavior would have been different.

>then those signs are, unsurprisingly (and htis is a larger
>problem with psychological definitions of disorders), easily
>manipulable by social rules. For example, "anxiety" is much
>more common in states with medical marijuana. are people just
>more anxious in california than pennsylvania? i doubt it.

Not really.


>shocking that you assume the worst about someone you don't
>know. well, shocking's not the word. sad. unempathetic.
>judgmental. those are better words.

Im not assuming the worst about anybody. Im making fun of the idea that he doesnt have a problem because he said he doesnt. And here it sounds like you are the one associating substamce abuse with being a bad person, not me. Ive actually expressed sympathy elsewhere in this post already, along with hopes that he is able to live a productive life. If you think ive said otherwise its because you projected it onto me.

>and if the mistake was, as he describes, him thinking the
>season was over after his last game and not the "league year"
>(march something, i think), is that a sign of addiction? fuck
>and no.

He put in zero due diligence. THATS the sign.


>i mean, he drank and drove once that we know of. I've drunk
>and driven at least once that we know of. the only difference
>is I DIDN'T GET CAUGHT.

and you didnt test positive for weed...at work...twice. nor did you fail to complete the consequences of that DWI when you started using again at an inappropriate time.

it's saying that he's lying. you're calling him a liar.

>That seems to be a projection of yours that me saying that he
>exhibits strong clinical signs of substance abuse = me
>determining his "worth"

look around the post. you may mean one thing, but the term "addict" isn't neutral in this circumstance.

>That IS the clinical evidence. How do you think these
>determinations are made? Just wait until someone turns up
>with a ring of glue around his mouth? The continued use
>despite repeated professional and personal consequences of
>use, is something that psychology defines as evidence of
>substance abuse. Im sorry if you dont want that to be the
>case, but it is.

i'm saying i don't like just lazily relying on psychological definitions when they're so easily manipulable by non-psychological things like extremely rigid testing definitions. that is, if Gordon's story is true about thinking the league year ended at the wrong time, then he's addicted because of idiocy, not because of not being able to stop drinking (which he had successfully done for many months)

>Thats alleged and, medically speaking, highly unlikely

oh, you know the legal levels? say word?

>So he went straight to use without bothering to determine if
>it was professionally acceptable? That doeant seem like
>problem behavior to you?

man, he's a 23 year old football player. 23 year olds make stupid mistakes. someone mighta said "year's over!" poured some drinks and gave him one. that's not addiction as i understand it.

>Id guess that were you in a different job, your behavior would
>have been different.

maybe? who knows? i think i break tons of my employer's rules a lot. *shrug*

>Im not assuming the worst about anybody. Im making fun of the
>idea that he doesnt have a problem because he said he doesnt.

you're assuming that his story isn't true. and isn't possible. i'm not doing that.

>And here it sounds like you are the one associating substamce
>abuse with being a bad person, not me. Ive actually expressed
>sympathy elsewhere in this post already, along with hopes that
>he is able to live a productive life. If you think ive said
>otherwise its because you projected it onto me.

he could live a productive life if the NFL didn't stick its head into its players' lives so aggressively.

>He put in zero due diligence. THATS the sign.

or he's 23 and never got a good education (football player lol)? never got professionalized?

>and you didnt test positive for weed...at work...twice. nor
>did you fail to complete the consequences of that DWI when you
>started using again at an inappropriate time.

i'd never be tested like him. that's the difference between him and me. i don't get tested. i smoke and drink A LOT MORE than he does.


-----------
Y'all stupid...should've tanked for Lebron/Wiggins in 2014 -Rex LongFellow

Its 2014...there are computers in glasses and people stunt after hitting the ball far. Get over it. -Cenario

It's only funny till someone gets mad. Then it's hilariou

Judgmental as in assesing his character? No.

I dont have the assocication between addiction and character that you seem to. It is an illness, a pathology with clinical indicators.

The association between addiction and negative character is *yours*.

And I agree with you and him. And was disgusted when Carter said they need to cut him. And back Boogie when talking about Charles.

But my point is he needs to get his shit straight cuz those critics are gonna come out if he gives them ammo.

<---https://www.amazon.com/dp/B01DL9AVTQ

>And I agree with you and him. And was disgusted when Carter
>said they need to cut him. And back Boogie when talking about
>Charles.
>
>But my point is he needs to get his shit straight cuz those
>critics are gonna come out if he gives them ammo.

Y'all sounded mighty civil rights era black people right
now


----------------------------



O_E: "Acts like an asshole and posts with imperial disdain"




"I ORBITs the solar system, listenin..."

(C)Keith Murray, "

>And that's the same for any young dude regardless of their
>job. You work in customer service, stop being a no call no
>show. Dont huff an L in the parking lot after work.
>
>Because that, "Hey baby, I'm young and learning" wears thin on
>everybody in an instant.
>
>Josh just needs to make better decisions. Because up to this
>point he has a long history of bad ones.

he claims he hadnt smoked since before the draft. the inconsistent drug test results that got him suspended give some reason to believe him. he didnt get high, he was around other dudes who were getting high. questionable decision.

he claims he thought he was in compliance when he drank "after the season" and admits he didnt know what after the season meant. questionable decision.

this is a recent history of taking risks that only look unacceptable to grown men who have lived long enough to know that any questionable decision with that much money on the line needs to be avoided at all costs.

assume the second hand smoke is the truth.

A dude who has gotten busted for smoking simply stops smoking, but his best friend or brother or girl or whomever continues to smoke around him. He's not tempted and never joins in. How is that questionable? Now he's got to drop friends just because friends smoke when he is in no way addicted? Fuck that.

What if it was mom dukes smoking to ease her anxiety, but doing it in a state w/o medical marijuana laws? Stop talking to mom?

-----------
Y'all stupid...should've tanked for Lebron/Wiggins in 2014 -Rex LongFellow

Its 2014...there are computers in glasses and people stunt after hitting the ball far. Get over it. -Cenario

It's only funny till someone gets mad. Then it's hilariou

a hard choice that a grown man might make eventually but a 23 yo usually isnt ready for.

should he have to make that choice? No, but the NFLs testing limit apparently was so conservative that it registered contact highs.

i dont blame him for not knowing that simple exposure would get him got but i can see how some would think that being in a position of potential temptation is a questionable decision.

so now anytime someone wants to smoke, it's like "damn, guess josh gotta bounce. see ya!"

or like they light up and he comes over and they have to be like "nope! sorry! weed! you aren't addicted, but not allowed here!"

cmon.

-----------
Y'all stupid...should've tanked for Lebron/Wiggins in 2014 -Rex LongFellow

Its 2014...there are computers in glasses and people stunt after hitting the ball far. Get over it. -Cenario

It's only funny till someone gets mad. Then it's hilariou

it was a well written response, a thoughtful response, but we're nowhere near mature here. observe.

he doesn't think he has a "problem" (he put it in quotes):

>Respectfully, your worry over my “problems” with
>substance abuse and my twisting descent into darkness and,
>apparently, my impending death, is misplaced

he doesn't think he's an addict:

>like when you publicly called for the Browns cut me so I could learn the
>same lessons you learned — you also stated as fact that
>“we are dealing with addiction here.” Know this: We are
>not dealing with anything, Cris.

he's still qualifying his previously failed alcohol test as a near-miss when, sorry, sir, it was just a fail:

>In connection with the DWI case, the league — in
>consideration of the fact that my blood-alcohol level was just
>.01 over the legal limit — agreed to shorten my
>punishment from four games lost to two.

>That punishment — while harsh, given what my lab results
>clearly showed, including a backup sample that was under the
>league threshold...

he doesn't think he has an issue with alcohol or ever did, and the NFL's hypocrisy is the real issue here:

>Did I think that was excessive given I had never had
>any issue whatsoever with alcohol? Yes. Did I think it was
>hypocritical that a professional league making hundreds of
>millions of dollars off beer sponsorships was telling me not
>to drink? Yes.

i only had two beers, officer:

>I boarded a private flight to Las Vegas with several teammates.
>During the flight, I had two beers and two drinks. It was the
>first time I had consumed so much as a drop of alcohol since
>July 4, 2014, the day of the DWI.

he thinks the media is overblowing the issue of him being suspended three out of his four years in the NFL, including most of the 2014 season and all of 2015:

>I failed the test, obviously, and the rest is history …
>colored by media speculation and faux outrage.

the kill shot. this is literally the opposite of what you'd do in A.A. no owner will sign him until he faces reality about this:

>I am not a drug addict; I am not an alcoholic;
>I am not someone who deserves to be
>dissected and analyzed like some tragic example of everything
>that can possibly go wrong for a professional athlete.

and one more time for good measure, the word "problem" in quotes and "only" 23, as if that's not well into grown man status:

>If I have a “problem,” it is that I am only 23 years
>old — with a lot left to learn.

"i smack clowns with nouns, punch herbs with verbs..."

>it was a well written response, a thoughtful response, but
>we're nowhere near mature here. observe.
>
>he doesn't think he has a "problem" (he put it in quotes):

With all due respect, I trust his opinion before I do
yours. Contrary to popular belief, 99.99% of the time people
do know themselves more than strangers.

That is exactly why its "mature."

He knows he made mistakes. His specific beef is about people
dumber than him making *moral* judgements and throwing
around categorical terms ("addict") that they (a) are not
professionally qualified to make, since "addict" is a technical
term and (b) are not qualified to make because they are making
them based on headlines, not inside the situation.

Every single of you numbskull fucks judging have been judged
for something that *appeared* one way that was completely
different when you knew the facts, knew the details or knew
the person involved. It happens all the time.


The truth is, 99.99% of the time you *do* have to know the
person to make judgements. Especially when it comes to shit
like marijuana.

Thats why friends and families of addicts have to have interventions. Because the addict is often oblivious to the reality of his problem.

Youre wrong about this. Someone who may or may not be an addict is often the last to know. And denying and minimizing the issue is textbook addict behavior.

This isnt about Gordon however, just generally speaking about substance abuse.