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Subject: "Would something like this be acceptable in any other 'major' sport?" Previous topic | Next topic
ThaTruth
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Mon Jan-20-14 02:59 PM

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"Would something like this be acceptable in any other 'major' sport?"


          

So the coaches basically said fuck the game and threw their brawlers out there from the start and said "Leggo!"? And you had a coach trying to go fight in the opposing locker room?

http://espn.go.com/nhl/story/_/id/10316780/vancouver-canucks-calgary-flames-brawl-2-seconds-game

'Goon squad' lineups touch off melee
Updated: January 20, 2014, 12:23 PM ET


VANCOUVER, British Columbia -- The Canucks and Calgary Flames engaged in a wild first-period brawl Saturday night that carried over to Canucks coach John Tortorella being involved in an altercation in the hallway outside the Flames' dressing room.

The opening minutes of the NHL game, which the Canucks won 3-2 in a shootout, was like a scene from the movie "Slap Shot." It brought back memories of when teams such as the Broad Street Bullies and Big Bad Boston Bruins hit the ice.

The Canucks and Flames dropped their gloves just 2 seconds into play, resulting in 142 penalty minutes in the first 5 minutes of the game.
"I don't think anybody expected that," said Flames defenseman Chris Butler, one of eight players ejected from the game.

"It's been a while since something like that happened, five guys pairing off."

An NHL official told ESPN.com on Sunday morning that the league is investigating the incident.

"Details when and if appropriate," the source said.

For his part, Tortorella will have an in-person hearing with Colin Campbell, the NHL's executive vice president of hockey operations, and other league officials on Monday, a source confirmed to ESPN.com.

The bad blood wasn't confined to the ice. At the end of the first period, CBC, which televised the game, captured Tortorella attempting to go into the Flames' locker room at Rogers Arena. Calgary enforcer Brian McGrattan pushed him away.

Flames goaltender coach Clint Malarchuk came out of the Flames' dressing room after Tortorella and McGrattan were separated. Malarchuk followed Tortorella but was restrained by several members of Calgary's staff and McGrattan.

Much of the altercation appeared off camera, but another camera showed Vancouver defenseman Chris Tanev pulling teammate Alex Burrows back toward the Canucks' dressing room.

Flames coach Bob Hartley was left shaking his head over Tortorella charging his team's dressing room.

"I just don't understand," he said. "I got out of there. I don't need to get suspended or fined.

"There is nothing to be settled there. I just don't understand what was going on."

The Flames raised a red flag by putting their fourth line on the ice to start the game. The Canucks countered with their tough guys.

Game on.

Defenseman Kevin Bieksa took the opening draw for Vancouver, and a line brawl broke out as soon as the puck was dropped.

Just 2 seconds had ticked off the clock when all five skaters from each team taking the opening faceoff dropped their gloves and began throwing punches.

McGrattan was left bloodied in a fight with Vancouver tough guy Tom Sestito. After the fight Sestito patted McGrattan on the back of the head.

Minor league call-up Kellan Lain's first game as a Canuck was brief. He was tossed for fighting with Calgary's Kevin Westgarth, who has no points in 21 games for the Flames.

Also receiving game misconducts were Vancouver forward Dale Weise plus defensemen Kevin Bieksa and Jason Garrison. For Calgary, it was Westgarth, Blair Jones, Ladislav Smid and Butler.

"They started their goon squad over there," said Sestito, who leads the NHL with 167 penalty minutes in 47 games. "I just don't think we're going to be backing down from guys.

"Torts told us they were starting their idiots over there so we had to match that."

Sestito and McGrattan remained in the game.

In the aftermath of the brawl, Tortorella could be seen yelling at the Flames' bench and Hartley.

"It's great that he has our back," Sestito said.

Later in the period, Calgary's Mark Giordano punched Burrows in the face. Burrows was wearing a face mask to protect a broken jaw. It was his first game since Dec. 1.

Tortorella made no apologies for the lineup he started.

"I know the other guy across the bench," he said. "It's easy for people to say, 'Well, put the Sedins out there and it's deflated.' I can't put our players at risk like that.

"With the lineup that he had, I'm not going to put those types of players at risk, and that's what ensued. I'm not proud of it. I've apologized to every one of the players involved in it. I don't feel great about it at all."

Hartley also defended his starting lineup.

"Those guys are playing well for us," he said. "They got a goal last game. We're not scoring many goals. We had zero intentions there.

"As far as I know, they were the home team. They had the luxury to put whoever they wanted on the ice."

The teams combined for 188 penalty minutes in the first period -- 142 penalty minutes in the first five minutes of the game and smaller skirmishes throughout the opening period. Calgary's Shane O'Brien and Vancouver's Zack Kassian each received 10-minute misconducts later in the period. A total of 204 penalty minutes were logged Saturday night.

Tortorella declined to answer questions about potential disciplinary actions, although he likely will receive either a hefty fine, a suspension or both.

The fiery coach has been fined multiple times for some particularly colorful postgame tirades. He has was suspended in 2009, while with the New York Rangers, for throwing a water bottle at a fan during a game against the Washington Capitals.

This was not the first time Tortorella encountered a situation like Saturday night. He blasted Devils coach Pete DeBoer from the bench after DeBoer started his fourth line against Tortorella's Rangers in 2012, an uncannily similar incident in which Tortorella matched with his tough guys -- having rugged defenseman Stu Bickel take the opening draw -- and a line brawl ensued.

________________________________________
"Take the surprise out your voice Shaq."-The REAL CP3
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v2H5K-BUMS0

  

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Topic Outline
Subject Author Message Date ID
Thugs
Jan 20th 2014
1
every player has 2 razors on his feet and a weapon in his hands
Jan 20th 2014
2
Nope - No fighting allowed in Olympics or College
Jan 20th 2014
10
basically. n/m
Jan 20th 2014
15
apples and oranges
Jan 20th 2014
22
      Olympic hockey and NHL Playoff hockey prove that fighting is not...
Jan 20th 2014
25
           did u read and understand my post?
Jan 21st 2014
29
                While those same NHL players, somehow find a way to not punch each other
Jan 21st 2014
30
                the olympic hockey tournament isnt the NHL
Jan 21st 2014
33
                     RE: the olympic hockey tournament isnt the NHL
Jan 21st 2014
38
                          because of that, *winning* is the priority
Jan 21st 2014
40
                               So 'winning' isn't a priority in the Olympics? It seems to be for the...
Jan 21st 2014
43
                                    Olympics is also more even competition, bigger surface, etc.
Jan 22nd 2014
53
                lo, are you that dense? the point genius, is the NHL could stop guys...
Jan 21st 2014
32
                     LOL congrats on watching your first hockey game
Jan 21st 2014
34
                          lol...these n00bs are on some funny stuff...nm
Jan 21st 2014
35
                          lol, nice try to divert attention from you being loud and wrong, what...
Jan 21st 2014
36
                               I was probably watching hockey before either one of you were born
Jan 21st 2014
37
                               youre just making things up now
Jan 21st 2014
41
                                    yeah that's why the games are on Versus
Jan 21st 2014
45
                                         NBC
Jan 28th 2014
93
There are a lot of dumb things typed on okp, this is as good as any
Jan 21st 2014
51
      any particular insight as to why you feel that way?
Jan 22nd 2014
60
hopefully the NHL will dissolve after its next strike in five years
Jan 20th 2014
3
smh
Jan 20th 2014
4
five years?? lol, I doubt they make 3
Jan 20th 2014
11
Why?
Jan 20th 2014
17
Move a team to Quebec and Hamilton
Jan 20th 2014
21
Phoenix and the Panthers
Jan 20th 2014
23
      Yep, I looked
Jan 21st 2014
47
From your avy it's clear you abhor violence.
Jan 22nd 2014
70
Never
Jan 20th 2014
5
Does this count?
Jan 20th 2014
6
damn
Jan 20th 2014
7
According to Ellis, he tried to hit the next two batters also
Jan 20th 2014
8
      Doc got that Chateaubriand - he didn't care
Jan 20th 2014
12
      Of course a guy named Bevacqua bets that.
Jan 21st 2014
49
      wow, lol
Jan 20th 2014
16
      that last paragraph is hilarity
Jan 20th 2014
27
      this is amazing. is there video of this somewhere?
Jan 21st 2014
31
      No, but there's a cartoon of this:
Jan 21st 2014
44
      Incredible lol
Jan 21st 2014
46
It does say Ellis, he might have just been frying again. Awesome story
Jan 22nd 2014
57
Fighting is the only thing hockey has going for it
Jan 20th 2014
9
John Tortorella's Napoleon complex is well documented
Jan 20th 2014
13
he's a genuine asshole, it's not just for show
Jan 22nd 2014
59
"Not 'Poodle'!" (c) Morris Wanchuk
Jan 20th 2014
14
i wish.
Jan 20th 2014
18
Where's Philpot when you need him?
Jan 20th 2014
19
cmon, those are just passionate, scrappy, gym-rats showing intensity
Jan 20th 2014
20
but richard sherman....
Jan 20th 2014
24
you'd think the NFL concussion lawsuit would help them see the light
Jan 20th 2014
26
The lawsuits are just begining now in the NHL
Jan 21st 2014
28
      right, so you'd think they'd be progressive + cut this shit out
Jan 21st 2014
48
           fighting accounts for a pretty small proportion of injuries though
Jan 22nd 2014
58
                but the cheap shots that lead to the need for enforcers DO put players
Jan 22nd 2014
64
                     it doesnt penalize the *team*
Jan 22nd 2014
78
                     it's moving in that direction and the results are mixed
Jan 28th 2014
94
the acceptance of fighting in Hockey has always been a
Jan 21st 2014
39
more lying
Jan 21st 2014
42
If Hockey was a true "Major" sport...the fighting wouldn't be
Jan 21st 2014
50
      you already lied, dont care
Jan 22nd 2014
52
      The NBA would benefit greatly from relaxed rules on fighting IMO
Jan 22nd 2014
55
           You cant't look at the contrast in opinions and commentary on fighting.....
Jan 22nd 2014
67
           absolutely....
Jan 22nd 2014
69
           Not really, there is very little rah rah stuff in hockey
Jan 22nd 2014
71
           cool strawman, did i ever say that? fuck read what i wrote here
Jan 22nd 2014
73
           if not for the NBA cutting down on fighting.... it would still
Jan 22nd 2014
68
                i understand about the NBA however should we as fans ...
Jan 22nd 2014
72
LOL, great historical perspective
Jan 22nd 2014
54
Eight ejections, coach suspended 15 days ... that's acceptable?
Jan 22nd 2014
56
psst...this post wasnt about hockey
Jan 22nd 2014
61
      butbutbut...his name is "Truth"...
Jan 22nd 2014
62
      Its not and that was obvious to most intelligent people from the start.
Jan 22nd 2014
65
a couple questions for the pro-fighting contingent
Jan 22nd 2014
63
Ask Steve Moore about his injuries
Jan 22nd 2014
66
RE: a couple questions for the pro-fighting contingent
Jan 22nd 2014
74
okay
Jan 22nd 2014
77
      eh...they have back ups in the NFL that could just as easily
Jan 22nd 2014
79
           right, the most useful tool any pro sports league has to control players...
Jan 22nd 2014
84
           see the thing about Steve Moore is..
Jan 25th 2014
85
                I guess you have justification for McSorley too
Jan 25th 2014
86
                www.hookedonphonics.com
Jan 25th 2014
87
                bertuzzi was still wrong, didnt moore already fight matt cooke?
Jan 25th 2014
88
                     of course he was still wrong
Jan 26th 2014
90
We've already seen what the NHL would be w/o fighting...NHL '94
Jan 22nd 2014
75
http://grantland.com/the-triangle/nhlpa-93-vs-nhl-94-the-ultimate-showdo...
Jan 22nd 2014
76
      There's a huge oversight in there: '94 had manual goalie control
Jan 22nd 2014
81
           biggest oversight is that the glitch goal Move in '93
Jan 22nd 2014
82
Poetx Axiom #1: The rate of acceptance of fighting in pro
Jan 22nd 2014
80
basically...
Jan 22nd 2014
83
Jan 25th 2014
89
ahaaa (c) Jewish Eddie Murphy; but he didn't say baseball was white
Jan 27th 2014
91
      Lotta Blacktinos though
Jan 28th 2014
95
           i no black papi (c) @thekidmero
Apr 17th 2014
99
lol they don't like this reply
Apr 17th 2014
98
for a sport so stuck on being "classy"
Jan 27th 2014
92
MORE FORMER PLAYERS SUE NHL REGARDING CONCUSSIONS
Apr 16th 2014
96
these guys didnt know that getting hit in the face could hurt them?
Apr 16th 2014
97
      RE: these guys didnt know that getting hit in the face could hurt them?
Apr 17th 2014
100

ErnestLee
Member since Mar 03rd 2003
28533 posts
Mon Jan-20-14 03:00 PM

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1. "Thugs"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

---------------------------------------------------------

  

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cgonz00cc
Member since Aug 01st 2002
35256 posts
Mon Jan-20-14 03:04 PM

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2. "every player has 2 razors on his feet and a weapon in his hands"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

Fighting keeps people from getting killed

  

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NoShelter
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Mon Jan-20-14 03:55 PM

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10. "Nope - No fighting allowed in Olympics or College"
In response to Reply # 2


  

          

and you hardly ever see any fights in the playoffs. Somehow the sport has survived. You get rid of fighting just how you do in every other sport: fines, ejections and suspensions.

  

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ThaTruth
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Mon Jan-20-14 04:37 PM

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15. "basically. n/m"
In response to Reply # 10


          

________________________________________
"Take the surprise out your voice Shaq."-The REAL CP3
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v2H5K-BUMS0

  

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cgonz00cc
Member since Aug 01st 2002
35256 posts
Mon Jan-20-14 09:05 PM

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22. "apples and oranges"
In response to Reply # 10


  

          

You also dont see people taking 2 handers to an opponent in college

And no one takes a run at a goalie in the olympics

These are just examples, but the game is played an entirely different way in the NHL

  

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j0510
Member since Feb 02nd 2012
2315 posts
Mon Jan-20-14 10:50 PM

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25. "Olympic hockey and NHL Playoff hockey prove that fighting is not..."
In response to Reply # 22


  

          

needed. The game is good and can be great even without the fighting.

  

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cgonz00cc
Member since Aug 01st 2002
35256 posts
Tue Jan-21-14 12:20 PM

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29. "did u read and understand my post? "
In response to Reply # 25


  

          

NHL players take cheap shots that dont happen in collegw and the olympics

Dont know why thats hard to comprehend...or why you basically just parrotted back the exact post id already replied to

  

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j0510
Member since Feb 02nd 2012
2315 posts
Tue Jan-21-14 12:30 PM

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30. "While those same NHL players, somehow find a way to not punch each other"
In response to Reply # 29


  

          

in the Olympics. How is that possible? The players some how mangage to control themselves, and realize taking stupid penalties, puts their team in a hole. Fighting does not make the team try/play harder or more likely to win.

  

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cgonz00cc
Member since Aug 01st 2002
35256 posts
Tue Jan-21-14 02:56 PM

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33. "the olympic hockey tournament isnt the NHL"
In response to Reply # 30


  

          

Its a fun little tournament that happens every 4 years in the spirit on national pride

The nhl is livelihood and career. An olympic gold medal is nice but no one in the NHL would choose that over having their name on the Cup

  

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ThaTruth
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38. "RE: the olympic hockey tournament isnt the NHL"
In response to Reply # 33


          


>The nhl is livelihood and career.

and because of that you'd think player safety would be an even bigger priority

________________________________________
"Take the surprise out your voice Shaq."-The REAL CP3
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v2H5K-BUMS0

  

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cgonz00cc
Member since Aug 01st 2002
35256 posts
Tue Jan-21-14 04:19 PM

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40. "because of that, *winning* is the priority"
In response to Reply # 38


  

          

  

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ThaTruth
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43. "So 'winning' isn't a priority in the Olympics? It seems to be for the..."
In response to Reply # 40


          

Canadians

________________________________________
"Take the surprise out your voice Shaq."-The REAL CP3
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v2H5K-BUMS0

  

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ConcreteCharlie
Member since Nov 21st 2002
71387 posts
Wed Jan-22-14 11:37 AM

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53. "Olympics is also more even competition, bigger surface, etc."
In response to Reply # 43


  

          

It's not the same game as North American pro leagues exactly.

You look at the big money leagues, they have fighting, the NHL and the KHL (Russian pros).

I'm not an ardent supporter of fighting, I get the stance above, but I'm also not the one making the call. You talk to the players and coaches, to a man they will defend it. We are not talking a simple majority or a 2/3 majority, we are talking 90+%.

I've made the same arguments as above, mainly the one about big games. In the playoffs last year there were maybe two fights I can recall. In the West, I don't think there were any.

That shows that the rules can take fighting out of the game. No one wants to be on the hook for an extra penalty or a possible suspension in a critical moment. It doesn't necessarily show that they are not beneficial though, because we do see a lot of greasy ass shit in the playoffs and down the stretch. Do the suspensions work? It's hard to posit that when you have repeat offenders (e.g. Raffi Torres) and teams making essentially calculated decisions to get guys suspended (I'm thinking about Matt Carkner in Ottawa, there are other examples).

It's just not entirely clear what the future of fighting is. I also think the decline of the enforcer and even before that the decline in their ability to do their job (instigator rule, mainly) has sort of blurred the lines. It used to be there was always someone there to make you eat a fist for breaking a somewhat defined code of conduct. Now the mismatches are harder to find and I also think guys fight for the wrong reasons sometimes, despite an overall drop in scraps. You shouldn't have to fight just because you put a big hit on someone, you should have to fight because you put a dangerous hit on someone.

And you will know MY JACKET IS GOLD when I lay my vengeance upon thee.

  

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ThaTruth
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32. "lo, are you that dense? the point genius, is the NHL could stop guys..."
In response to Reply # 29


          

from doing that if that wanted to.

________________________________________
"Take the surprise out your voice Shaq."-The REAL CP3
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v2H5K-BUMS0

  

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cgonz00cc
Member since Aug 01st 2002
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Tue Jan-21-14 02:58 PM

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34. "LOL congrats on watching your first hockey game"
In response to Reply # 32


  

          

  

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guru0509
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35. "lol...these n00bs are on some funny stuff...nm"
In response to Reply # 34


  

          

-------------------
I wanna go to where the martyrs went
the brown figures on the walls of my apart-a-ment...

  

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ThaTruth
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36. "lol, nice try to divert attention from you being loud and wrong, what..."
In response to Reply # 34


          

people above said is nothing new, its been discussed by a lot of hockey people before.

The bottom line is its all about marketing, the NHL is dying in popularity as it is and the fighting is the only thing that keeps casual fans interested

________________________________________
"Take the surprise out your voice Shaq."-The REAL CP3
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v2H5K-BUMS0

  

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ThaTruth
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37. "I was probably watching hockey before either one of you were born"
In response to Reply # 36


          

________________________________________
"Take the surprise out your voice Shaq."-The REAL CP3
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v2H5K-BUMS0

  

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cgonz00cc
Member since Aug 01st 2002
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41. "youre just making things up now"
In response to Reply # 36


  

          

Every year for the past 5 years has brought higher TV ratings than the year before

A simple google search could have told you that but instead you made up some bullshit

Why would anyone listen to anything you have to say at this point? The only thing you typed that was true is that you are old.

  

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ThaTruth
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45. "yeah that's why the games are on Versus"
In response to Reply # 41


          

________________________________________
"Take the surprise out your voice Shaq."-The REAL CP3
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v2H5K-BUMS0

  

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ConcreteCharlie
Member since Nov 21st 2002
71387 posts
Tue Jan-28-14 11:43 AM

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93. "NBC "
In response to Reply # 45


  

          

And you will know MY JACKET IS GOLD when I lay my vengeance upon thee.

  

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calminvasion
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Tue Jan-21-14 11:45 PM

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51. "There are a lot of dumb things typed on okp, this is as good as any"
In response to Reply # 2


  

          

In recent memory though

  

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cgonz00cc
Member since Aug 01st 2002
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Wed Jan-22-14 12:24 PM

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60. "any particular insight as to why you feel that way? "
In response to Reply # 51


  

          

Ive never seen you in a hockey post so color me curious...

  

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will_5198
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Mon Jan-20-14 03:06 PM

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3. "hopefully the NHL will dissolve after its next strike in five years"
In response to Reply # 0


          

--------

  

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guru0509
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4. "smh"
In response to Reply # 3


  

          

-------------------
I wanna go to where the martyrs went
the brown figures on the walls of my apart-a-ment...

  

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calminvasion
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Mon Jan-20-14 03:57 PM

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11. "five years?? lol, I doubt they make 3"
In response to Reply # 3


  

          

  

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Marauder21
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49516 posts
Mon Jan-20-14 06:54 PM

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17. "Why?"
In response to Reply # 3


  

          

------

12 play and 12 planets are enlighten for all the Aliens to Party and free those on the Sex Planet-maxxx

XBL: trkc21
Twitter: @tyrcasey

  

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DeepAztheRoot
Member since Dec 19th 2003
13992 posts
Mon Jan-20-14 08:50 PM

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21. "Move a team to Quebec and Hamilton"
In response to Reply # 3


  

          

get 'em out of the South, where they don't care about hockey

Phoenix and Carolina should be done like Atlanta

<-Fear Ameer

  

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B9
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23. "Phoenix and the Panthers"
In response to Reply # 21


          

Need to be put out of their misery. The Coyotes are actually drawing worse than the Thrashers were in their last seasons.

  

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DeepAztheRoot
Member since Dec 19th 2003
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47. "Yep, I looked"
In response to Reply # 23


  

          

75% capacity on a good night

The Leafs at 119% capacity for ROAD games because a ticket is so hard to get at Air Canada

shouldn't be that difficult

<-Fear Ameer

  

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ConcreteCharlie
Member since Nov 21st 2002
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70. "From your avy it's clear you abhor violence."
In response to Reply # 3


  

          

And you will know MY JACKET IS GOLD when I lay my vengeance upon thee.

  

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Binlahab
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5. "Never"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          


does it even matter?

  

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Walleye
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6. "Does this count?"
In response to Reply # 0


          

My inclination is to say "no" because hockey brawls are dumb and this is hilarious. But I'm open to correction.

http://www.baseball-reference.com/boxes/PIT/PIT197405010.shtml

Top of the 1st, Reds Batting, Tied 0-0, Pirates' Ellis facing 1-2-3
CIN P. Rose D. Ellis - Hit By Pitch
CIN J. Morgan D. Ellis - Hit By Pitch
CIN D. Driessen D. Ellis - Hit By Pitch

______________________________

"Walleye, a lot of things are going to go wrong in your life that technically aren't your fault. Always remember that this doesn't make you any less of an idiot"

--Walleye's Dad

  

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ThaTruth
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7. "damn"
In response to Reply # 6


          

________________________________________
"Take the surprise out your voice Shaq."-The REAL CP3
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v2H5K-BUMS0

  

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Walleye
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8. "According to Ellis, he tried to hit the next two batters also"
In response to Reply # 7


          

I should add that I agree with your premise here. The incident just reminded me of this story.

http://www.nonoadockumentary.com/mayday

May 1st, 2010
May Day – Dock Goes Redhunting

On May 1, 1974 Dock Ellis engaged in one of the most deliberate acts of headhunting in his career. In this case, he went hunting for Cincinnati Reds. Reds Make Nice Targets For Erratic Dock Ellis
The boxscore for the game tells just part of the story. As with many tales from the annals of Dock Ellis, this one is overloaded with insights into the game of baseball, and the art of pitching & plunking — and also as usual with Dock, when we scratch beneath the surface the back story becomes just as fascinating as the incident itself. In 1976 Donald Hall provided some background in Dock Ellis in the Country of Baseball:

"Four days earlier, I had seen him at a party in Pittsburgh. I wandered around, talking to various people. Dock’s attorney and friend Tom Reich was there, shaking his head in disapproval of a plan of Dock’s. I met Dock in the kitchen fixing a drink. I asked him with some awe, “Are you really going to hit every Cincinnati ballplayer Wednesday night?” He returned the awe. “How you know that?” he said."

In 2006 Bob Smizik of the Pittsburgh Post Gazette spoke with Dock, who elaborated that the seeds for this were sown at least as far back as 1974 spring training:

“They called our team dumb,” said Ellis of the Reds. “I told Kurt Bevacqua in spring training I would drill all of them. “Bevacqua said, ‘I’ll bet you a Chateaubriand.’ “I collected.”

More from Donald Hall, quoting the reasons Dock gave for his plan:
“Cincinnati will bullshit with us and kick our ass and laugh at us. They’re the only team that talk about us like a dog. Whenever we play that team, everybody socializes with them.” In the past the roles had been reversed. “When they ran over to us, we knew they were afraid of us. When I saw our team doing it, right then I say, `We gonna get down. We gonna do the do. I’m going to hit these motherfuckers.’ ”
Donald Hall poetically described the game action:

“The first pitch to Pete Rose was directly toward his head,” as Dock expresses it, “not actually to hit him, ” but as “the message, to let him know that he was going to get hit. More or less to press his lips. I knew if I could get close to the head that I could get them in the body. Because they’re looking to protect their head, they’ll give me the body.” The next pitch was behind him. “The next one, I hit him in the side.” Pete Rose’s response was even more devastating than Dock had anticipated. He smiled. Then he picked the ball up, where it had fallen beside him, and gently, underhanded, tossed it back to Dock. Then he lit for first as if trying out for the Olympics. As Dock says, with huge approval, “You have to be good, to be a hot dog.”

As Rose bent down to pick up the ball, he had exchanged a word with Joe Morgan who was batting next. Morgan taunted Rose, “He doesn’t like you anyway. You’re a white guy.” Dock hit Morgan in the kidneys with his first pitch. “The next batter was Driessen. I threw a ball to him. High and inside. The next one, I hit him in the back.” Bases loaded, no outs. Tony Perez, Cincinnati first baseman, came to bat. He did not dig in. “There was no way I could hit him. He was running. The first one I threw behind him, over his head, up against the screen, but it came back off the glass, and they didn’t advance. I threw behind him because he was backing up, but then he stepped in front of the ball. The next three pitches, he was running. . . . I walked him.” A run came in. “The next hitter was Johnny Bench. I tried to deck him twice. I threw at his jaw, and he moved. I threw at the back of his head, and he moved.”

Al Oliver told what happened next in his 1997 autobiography Baseball’s Best Kept Secret:

"Danny Murtaugh came to the mound. “Dock it looks like you don’t have your good stuff tonight,” Danny said. I wanted to laugh. It took everything I had in me to suppress it. I’m sure Danny knew what was going on with Dock that night; he was no dummy. Knowing Murtaugh, he probably liked it, but he had to come out to the mound."

Manny Sanguillen -
"The Reds said something in the paper, and Dock told me, “I’m going to knock everybody down.” I just sat there and he threw the ball. He said, “No matter what you do, I’m going to throw the ball at them. No matter what you say, I’m going to throw at them.” Dock didn’t care. When Danny came to the mound he asked, “Dock, what happened?” Dock told him, “Nothing’s wrong chief,” and Murtaugh asked him for the ball. Danny liked these kind of players. Fighters. You want to be on a club that’s strong. That has respect."

Joe Posnanski summed up Dock’s efforts in a 2009 blog post:

"Did the mowdown serve its purpose? Hard to say. The Pirates continued to play uninspired ball well into August — they still had a losing record on August 11th. But the division was so even that they were only 2 1/2 games back at the time. And they won 31 of their last 47 games to win the division title. They lost to the Dodgers in the NLCS.


Dock shares the record for most hit batsmen in a single inning at three — with a whole slew of other pitchers. However, not only is he not the only NL pitcher with three hit batsmen in the first inning (Candiotti, Hawley, Weaver), he’s not the only Bucco pitcher with that distinction (Deacon Phillippe in 1905). Dock does stand alone with the dubious record for most consecutive hit batsmen (with three) in that game, and according to the Plunk Everyone blog, Dock is “the only post-1960 pitcher to hit 3 batters without recording an out”. Mark Ecko’s complex.com voted this incident baseball’s number one greatest retaliation."

______________________________

"Walleye, a lot of things are going to go wrong in your life that technically aren't your fault. Always remember that this doesn't make you any less of an idiot"

--Walleye's Dad

  

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calminvasion
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12. "Doc got that Chateaubriand - he didn't care"
In response to Reply # 8


  

          

  

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SoulHonky
Member since Jan 21st 2003
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49. "Of course a guy named Bevacqua bets that. "
In response to Reply # 12


          

I'll always remember him because opening baseball cards as a kid, a constant refrain was, "Not another Kurt Bevacqua!"

----
NBA MOCK DRAFT #1 - https://thecourierclass.com/whole-shebang/2017/5/18/2017-nba-mock-draft-1-just-lotto-and-lotta-trades

  

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ThaTruth
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16. "wow, lol"
In response to Reply # 8


          

________________________________________
"Take the surprise out your voice Shaq."-The REAL CP3
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v2H5K-BUMS0

  

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Rjcc
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27. "that last paragraph is hilarity"
In response to Reply # 8


          


http://card.mygamercard.net/lastgame/rjcc.png

www.engadgethd.com - the other stuff i'm looking at

  

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veritas
Member since Sep 16th 2002
37201 posts
Tue Jan-21-14 02:30 PM

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31. "this is amazing. is there video of this somewhere?"
In response to Reply # 8


          

i still blame hip-hop.

  

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mrhood75
Member since Dec 06th 2004
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44. "No, but there's a cartoon of this:"
In response to Reply # 31


  

          

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_vUhSYLRw14

Classic.

-----------------

www.albumism.com

Checkin' Our Style, Return To Zero:

https://www.mixcloud.com/returntozero/

  

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JAESCOTT777
Member since Feb 18th 2006
28487 posts
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46. "Incredible lol "
In response to Reply # 8


  

          

  

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ConcreteCharlie
Member since Nov 21st 2002
71387 posts
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57. "It does say Ellis, he might have just been frying again. Awesome story"
In response to Reply # 6
Wed Jan-22-14 11:48 AM by ConcreteCharlie

  

          

.

And you will know MY JACKET IS GOLD when I lay my vengeance upon thee.

  

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PimpTrickGangstaClik
Member since Oct 06th 2005
15894 posts
Mon Jan-20-14 03:49 PM

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9. "Fighting is the only thing hockey has going for it"
In response to Reply # 0


          

_______________________________________

  

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B9
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13. "John Tortorella's Napoleon complex is well documented"
In response to Reply # 0


          

He sees Hartley sending out a 4th line from a sub-500 team and thinks "okay, they want to beat our guys up" and puts his own hit-squad out there, telling them to do just that. You can be concerned about your 1st going against a 4th, but, you know, you could also just put out your 2nd or 3rd and beat the lesser team with actual hockey and not braggadocio nonsense. But that wouldn't be Tortorella hockey.

  

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ConcreteCharlie
Member since Nov 21st 2002
71387 posts
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59. "he's a genuine asshole, it's not just for show"
In response to Reply # 13


  

          

And you will know MY JACKET IS GOLD when I lay my vengeance upon thee.

  

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mrhood75
Member since Dec 06th 2004
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Mon Jan-20-14 04:18 PM

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14. ""Not 'Poodle'!" (c) Morris Wanchuk"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

-----------------

www.albumism.com

Checkin' Our Style, Return To Zero:

https://www.mixcloud.com/returntozero/

  

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BrooklynWHAT
Member since Jun 15th 2007
85073 posts
Mon Jan-20-14 07:22 PM

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18. "i wish."
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

<--- Big Baller World Order

  

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Kira
Member since Nov 14th 2004
28844 posts
Mon Jan-20-14 07:26 PM

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19. "Where's Philpot when you need him?"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

This deserves whiteful righteous indignation. Someone needs to speak on these barbaric thugs from deficient backgrounds.

No empathy for white misery (c) BDot

"root for everybody black haters say that's crazy, wow..."

  

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KosherSam
Member since Mar 18th 2004
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20. "cmon, those are just passionate, scrappy, gym-rats showing intensity"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

*Jews you*

"this is okp tho, reading is completely optional" (c) desus

Proceed with caution. I am overtly racist.

<-- In Pigpen we trust

  

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falafel stand pimpin
Member since Dec 26th 2006
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Mon Jan-20-14 10:23 PM

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24. "but richard sherman...."
In response to Reply # 0


          

  

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celery77
Member since Aug 04th 2005
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Mon Jan-20-14 11:21 PM

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26. "you'd think the NFL concussion lawsuit would help them see the light"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

but nah, this is the NHL...

___________

HOPE!
https://vine.co/v/i7JjIBL3Qix
https://vine.co/v/i7JtqEFwxDu

  

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j0510
Member since Feb 02nd 2012
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28. "The lawsuits are just begining now in the NHL"
In response to Reply # 26


  

          

Now that the enforcers like Bob Probert and Derek Boogaard are passing away, their brains are being studied and showing that they had CTE. Even players who were non-enforcers like Rick Martin have been shown to have CTE.

  

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celery77
Member since Aug 04th 2005
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48. "right, so you'd think they'd be progressive + cut this shit out"
In response to Reply # 28


  

          

all they're doing is exposing themselves to further liability by being lazy and negligent in removing fighting from the game.

___________

HOPE!
https://vine.co/v/i7JjIBL3Qix
https://vine.co/v/i7JtqEFwxDu

  

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ConcreteCharlie
Member since Nov 21st 2002
71387 posts
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58. "fighting accounts for a pretty small proportion of injuries though"
In response to Reply # 48


  

          

And you will know MY JACKET IS GOLD when I lay my vengeance upon thee.

  

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pdafunk
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64. "but the cheap shots that lead to the need for enforcers DO put players"
In response to Reply # 58


  

          

at an increased risk for injury. so don't you think this could be addressed through steeper punishments for dirty players? you mention repeat offenders above. do you think they would play the way they do if they were getting suspended and losing their salary on a regular basis?

------
"I can't promise I'll try. But I'll try to try."

  

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cgonz00cc
Member since Aug 01st 2002
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Wed Jan-22-14 03:39 PM

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78. "it doesnt penalize the *team*"
In response to Reply # 64


  

          

This is part of what I was getting at below

If my minor league call-up knocked your star out of a divisional game and he was out for 3 weeks...you think I give a shit if my call-up gets suspended after the game? Id be more upset about you scoring a goal on the PP...that trade works out great for me.

  

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ConcreteCharlie
Member since Nov 21st 2002
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Tue Jan-28-14 11:46 AM

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94. "it's moving in that direction and the results are mixed"
In response to Reply # 64


  

          

there are a lot of ideas but to be honest they are all sort of half-formed. so far meting out more suspensions and longer suspensions has not been all that effective to me. that's not to say that the self-policing system was perfect, only that it's a dangerous game with lots of gray areas and plenty of evolving elements as well.

And you will know MY JACKET IS GOLD when I lay my vengeance upon thee.

  

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Warren Coolidge
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39. "the acceptance of fighting in Hockey has always been a "
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

desperate attempt to appeal to fans...

the league won't crack down on it because they'd lose fans and they are struggling to get and keep fans anyway..

  

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cgonz00cc
Member since Aug 01st 2002
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Tue Jan-21-14 04:32 PM

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42. "more lying"
In response to Reply # 39
Tue Jan-21-14 04:33 PM by cgonz00cc

  

          

The NHL's TV numbers have gone consistantly up for the better part of a decade, and only the NFL is better at filling seats even though hockey tix are anywhere from 15-40% more expensive than NBA tix

Why lie?

  

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Warren Coolidge
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Tue Jan-21-14 10:35 PM

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50. "If Hockey was a true "Major" sport...the fighting wouldn't be "
In response to Reply # 42


  

          

tolerated....

they NEED the fighting...

  

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cgonz00cc
Member since Aug 01st 2002
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Wed Jan-22-14 11:18 AM

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52. "you already lied, dont care"
In response to Reply # 50


  

          

  

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ConcreteCharlie
Member since Nov 21st 2002
71387 posts
Wed Jan-22-14 11:41 AM

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55. "The NBA would benefit greatly from relaxed rules on fighting IMO"
In response to Reply # 50


  

          

They had them in the past but as the league has tried harder and harder to whitewash its image, they had to get stiffer and stiffer on fighting. Just staring will get you a tech now and some clumsy little girl slap that doesn't even connect will get you ejected. Nevermind that you can still do all sorts of cheap and dangerous stuff between whistles. Do you think Bruce Bowen would have made it very far in the NHL without eating a bunch of haymakers?

And you will know MY JACKET IS GOLD when I lay my vengeance upon thee.

  

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ThaTruth
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67. "You cant't look at the contrast in opinions and commentary on fighting....."
In response to Reply # 55


          

between hockey and other sports like basketball and say there's not a racial component involved

________________________________________
"Take the surprise out your voice Shaq."-The REAL CP3
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v2H5K-BUMS0

  

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Warren Coolidge
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Wed Jan-22-14 02:25 PM

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69. "absolutely.... "
In response to Reply # 67


  

          

look at how people are treating Sherman for just being verbally aggressive...if that was a hockey player he'd be applauded as a tough guy...

  

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ConcreteCharlie
Member since Nov 21st 2002
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71. "Not really, there is very little rah rah stuff in hockey"
In response to Reply # 69


  

          

And you never hear anyone praise Jesus.

It's just a totally different culture.

And you will know MY JACKET IS GOLD when I lay my vengeance upon thee.

  

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ConcreteCharlie
Member since Nov 21st 2002
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73. "cool strawman, did i ever say that? fuck read what i wrote here"
In response to Reply # 67


  

          

removing fighting was part of an image makeover that had everything to do with race in the NBA.

so the NHL should somehow be forced to make that same change, even though it doesn't have those same issues marketing itself?

incidentally i am no great defender of fighting. i think it serves a limited purpose in today's NHL and most of the time i find it boring to watch. i just think there are all sorts of misfires in here, things that aren't well understood.

And you will know MY JACKET IS GOLD when I lay my vengeance upon thee.

  

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Warren Coolidge
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Wed Jan-22-14 02:24 PM

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68. "if not for the NBA cutting down on fighting.... it would still "
In response to Reply # 55


  

          

be a 2nd tier league...with the finals shown on tape delay around the country..

The movement away from fighting allowed the league to become a national TV league..a worldwide league....

you weren't going to get those type of tv contracts with a predominately Black sport having guys fight...then when the Rudy T incident happened..the league had to do something to change its image or it would not have reached the heights in popularity that it has..

notice that the NBA had a problem with fighting....and a problem with cocaine and dealt with those issues in a manner that would not allow the league to be buried under those issues...

I'll make a comparison with that and also the NFL with steroids.. although the handling of the brain injury issue has not been great so far..but back when steroids were prevalent in the nfl...when high school kids were dying from using them..the NFL took a stance against it..a pro-active and aggressive stance...again, acting towards a problem in a way that would not bury your league..

now compare those 2 things with Baseball and steroids.....MLB was complicit in the rise in steroid use because it's popularity to baseball and football nationally and worldwide was falling...and they wanted to infuse some excitement to their sport...so Selig and them turned a blind eye to the gawdy HR numbers and changes in players body types...

in hockey....certainly in America hockey is not one of the top 3 sports....the fighting adds some excitement to the game and is attractive to its core demographic...so they don't crack down on it...

  

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ConcreteCharlie
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72. "i understand about the NBA however should we as fans ..."
In response to Reply # 68
Wed Jan-22-14 02:36 PM by ConcreteCharlie

  

          

be more concerned about the profitability of the league or the quality of play/entertainment and the safety and/or desires of the players? even if it's the former, the NHL doesn't have that same issue. you yourself said that the violence is a selling point and obviously there is no racial divide for a league that is 90+ percent white to overcome.

the nhl has managed to get pretty popular as something that's a borderline niche sport and always has been.

i'm not really sure why i'm even addressing this argument when on its heels there was some praise for the NFL's steroid policy. the NFL's steroid policy is three words LIE LIE LIE.

if you have HS kids and NCAA kids juicing, i guarantee it's no less prevalent when the competition gets even tougher and tighter.

And you will know MY JACKET IS GOLD when I lay my vengeance upon thee.

  

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ConcreteCharlie
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54. "LOL, great historical perspective"
In response to Reply # 39


  

          

It gets played up in the minor leagues for that reason, that's about it.

And you will know MY JACKET IS GOLD when I lay my vengeance upon thee.

  

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ConcreteCharlie
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56. "Eight ejections, coach suspended 15 days ... that's acceptable?"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

There was a time when you'd see this sort of line brawl but it's pretty rare now. Certainly a coach trying to enter the opposing team's dressing room is neither common nor accepted.

And you will know MY JACKET IS GOLD when I lay my vengeance upon thee.

  

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cgonz00cc
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61. "psst...this post wasnt about hockey"
In response to Reply # 56


  

          

I knew that going in and indulged, but I lost my taste for it when the lying started

  

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B9
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62. "butbutbut...his name is "Truth"..."
In response to Reply # 61


          

  

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ThaTruth
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65. "Its not and that was obvious to most intelligent people from the start."
In response to Reply # 61


          

________________________________________
"Take the surprise out your voice Shaq."-The REAL CP3
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v2H5K-BUMS0

  

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pdafunk
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63. "a couple questions for the pro-fighting contingent"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

let's say that fighting does NOT put fans in the seats. then what is it's purpose?

having an enforcer to protect skill players on your team? couldn't this argument apply to other contact sports, e.g., football, where QB's knees used to be a bullseye for defensive players, and where players routinely got blindsided on kickoffs, plays away from the ball, etc?

the NFL has tried to change behavior through fines & suspensions and while people gripe about the "pussification" of the NFL, it's still drawing record viewers and revenue.

and for those saying "no injuries from fights", what is your take on players like derek boogard or others who have destroyed themselves physically in the role of an enforcer?

and if your stance is "fighting does not put fans in the seats", then logically speaking, getting rid of fighting would not drive fans away, so why not do it?

------
"I can't promise I'll try. But I'll try to try."

  

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ThaTruth
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66. "Ask Steve Moore about his injuries"
In response to Reply # 63


          

________________________________________
"Take the surprise out your voice Shaq."-The REAL CP3
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v2H5K-BUMS0

  

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ConcreteCharlie
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74. "RE: a couple questions for the pro-fighting contingent"
In response to Reply # 63
Wed Jan-22-14 02:47 PM by ConcreteCharlie

  

          

>let's say that fighting does NOT put fans in the seats. then
>what is it's purpose?

>having an enforcer to protect skill players on your team?
>couldn't this argument apply to other contact sports, e.g.,
>football, where QB's knees used to be a bullseye for defensive
>players, and where players routinely got blindsided on
>kickoffs, plays away from the ball, etc?

it could and if you look at it there is a code of conduct backed by violence in baseball and there used to be in basketball. football is a bit of a different animal, you've got lots of equipment on and there's probably an excuse to fight on every other down if you're looking for one.

>the NFL has tried to change behavior through fines &
>suspensions and while people gripe about the "pussification"
>of the NFL, it's still drawing record viewers and revenue.

that doesn't mean there is a correlation and if you look at it the NFL has been going out of its way to craft an image that deemphasizes physical play (absurd given what goes on out there), criticism, etc. their ability to implement these roles and continue growing doesn't show that violence is unpopular--that is a very difficult argument to make in american sports and entertainment--but that they have a great business model and hawks overseeing what they project in terms of total image.

>and for those saying "no injuries from fights", what is your
>take on players like derek boogard or others who have
>destroyed themselves physically in the role of an enforcer?

The enforcer is fast becoming a dinosaur in the NHL for logistical reasons. You cannot squander a roster slot on a guy who cannot play hockey in today's NHL. Maybe a fourth line forward, that's about it, a guy like Westgarth is on every third roster now.

Look at a case like Scott Parker. He went out there to beat in heads and get his own face smashed. What ultimately debilitated him? A puck that banked off a teammate's stick and hit him in the eye. With all the obvious risks he took fighting, an errant shot that could have hit even the smallest, most passive player out there is what ruined his career and really his life.

Again I am not a staunch defender of fighting, it's just not the obvious, outright ill some people are making it out to be. Even Parker said he accepted his job, he knew what it was and he knows he saved other guys from getting injured in the course of doing it.

>and if your stance is "fighting does not put fans in the
>seats", then logically speaking, getting rid of fighting would
>not drive fans away, so why not do it?

I don't think there's any doubt that more fans than not like to see it and I think that's true in other sports, too. Even in the NBA, hey, you can say whatever you want as long as you say you're against it. What regular season game got more coverage than the Pacers-Pistons brawl game? Shit it got more attention than Kobe's 81-point game.

Personally I wouldn't be upset to see fighting go from the NHL, but I do think it would be a give-and-take situation in terms of all the issues at hand, most notably player safety and entertainment value of the sport.

And you will know MY JACKET IS GOLD when I lay my vengeance upon thee.

  

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cgonz00cc
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77. "okay"
In response to Reply # 63


  

          

For one, hockey numbers have gone up across the board as fighting has gone down. I honestly think thats a much smaller factor than others do.

For another, protecting the stars is part of it but not the whole thing. Guys who arent stars are on the receiving ends of dirty and/or dangerous plays all the time. On skates and with sticks the opportunity is there to really fuck someone up with slashing, checking from behind, boarding, etc. Not sure why Calm came in to argue something he apperently doesnt understand but 3 years ago, a player *stomped* on another one with his skate. When I was in high school I watched a guy from the other school accidentally get his throat slashed open with a skate blade. He only lived because there was a doctor there. There is inherent, and even more potential with intent, danger in hockey that doesnt exist in other sports.

A suspension after the game for a 4th line skater and a 2:00 penalty kill is not that strong of an incentive next to the top line center leaving with bruised ribs or something. If your top Free Safety gets kicked out of a football game for a cheap shot, you're in trouble. If Jimmy Q Goonsquad gets kicked out of a hockey game, someone is gonna dap him up on his way out. Additionally, now there is the overwhelming pprobability of retaliation on one of your guys...probably escalated.

But if there is a price to be paid immediately for stepping out of bounds...its a different story. It also helps to end the cycle of retaliation.

As Charlie mentioned, the instigator rule has really cut down on fighting but there are still a LOT of guys that would take that penalty if the original offense was bad enough.

As for injuries to fighters...if you dont want to fight then skate away, or turtle if the guy starts swinging. But if you just did someone dirty you can expect to eat glass or take a two handed slash to the leg. Everyone knows it dangerous to get hit and get hit. Fighting is a choice in hockey; there can be consequences for *not* doing it but a safe and responsible player doesnt really have to concern himself with that.

And just for the record I am a fan of the most non-fighting, Euro-dominated team in hockey. The Red Wings generally play the game safe and throughout my life the best Wings have also been noted by the league for gentlemanly play. If everyone played like Pavel Datsyuk, fighting would go away on its own and I would think everything was great. But they dont, so fighting stays until they do.

  

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pdafunk
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79. "eh...they have back ups in the NFL that could just as easily"
In response to Reply # 77


  

          

come in and do someone dirty and then bounce, never to be seen again, but i don't recall it happenening. and if you have guys with marginal talent making the league minimum or whatever, they would think twice if it meant forfeiting a large part of their salary. essentially, you need to make it more detrimental to their livelihood to play dirty.

and yeah you can skate away, but that didn't stop bertuzzi from jumping on moore's back and ending his career.

i'm not going to be out there getting a petition signed, but i don't think fighting is essential to hockey and could easily be done away with if the NHL was serious about it.



------
"I can't promise I'll try. But I'll try to try."

  

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ThaTruth
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84. "right, the most useful tool any pro sports league has to control players..."
In response to Reply # 79


          

AND teams is to hit them pockets. Stiff fines will cut anything down.

________________________________________
"Take the surprise out your voice Shaq."-The REAL CP3
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v2H5K-BUMS0

  

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cgonz00cc
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85. "see the thing about Steve Moore is.."
In response to Reply # 79


  

          


>and yeah you can skate away, but that didn't stop bertuzzi
>from jumping on moore's back and ending his career.

Moore had taken a dirty shot on Markus Naslund a few weeks earlier. Naslund at the time was the leading scorer in the league and was a total skill/finesse player.

Like I said above, feel free to skate away from a fight, but if you did someone (in this case the leading scorer in the league) and you dont want to deal with the guy who wants to defend the aggrieved's honor...well something bad is gonna happen. And it did. Steve Moore, before Bertuzzi clocked him, was a headhunter and if thats the way a guy is gonna play he better be ready to fight.

Now there's no excuse for what Bertuzzi did. He chose to do that. But if it wasnt gonna be him it was gonna be someone else. You take a run at the head of the best player on the best team, be ready to fight or you're setting yourself up for something worse. Thats how fighting breaks the cycle of retaliation.

  

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ThaTruth
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86. "I guess you have justification for McSorley too"
In response to Reply # 85


          

________________________________________
"Take the surprise out your voice Shaq."-The REAL CP3
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v2H5K-BUMS0

  

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cgonz00cc
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87. "www.hookedonphonics.com"
In response to Reply # 86


  

          

  

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ConcreteCharlie
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88. "bertuzzi was still wrong, didnt moore already fight matt cooke?"
In response to Reply # 85


  

          

And you will know MY JACKET IS GOLD when I lay my vengeance upon thee.

  

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cgonz00cc
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90. "of course he was still wrong"
In response to Reply # 88


  

          

Not being surprised doesnt mean I support that

  

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LA2Philly
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75. "We've already seen what the NHL would be w/o fighting...NHL '94"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

At least you could break the glass and dump dudes into the benches.

---------------------------------
<--The drought is over

"have fun reveling in your pettiness tho" (C) Dula summing up 98% of OKS

"I didnt finish a damn thing...matter of fact I jerked off after she left."
-Kobe speaking to investigators

L D E A

  

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smutsboy
Member since Jun 29th 2002
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76. "http://grantland.com/the-triangle/nhlpa-93-vs-nhl-94-the-ultimate-showdo..."
In response to Reply # 75


  

          

http://grantland.com/the-triangle/nhlpa-93-vs-nhl-94-the-ultimate-showdown/

  

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LA2Philly
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81. "There's a huge oversight in there: '94 had manual goalie control"
In response to Reply # 76


  

          

You could eliminate a lot of the cheap goals by manually destroying the skater lol.

---------------------------------
<--The drought is over

"have fun reveling in your pettiness tho" (C) Dula summing up 98% of OKS

"I didnt finish a damn thing...matter of fact I jerked off after she left."
-Kobe speaking to investigators

L D E A

  

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smutsboy
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82. "biggest oversight is that the glitch goal Move in '93"
In response to Reply # 81


  

          

is what made it so fun.

It also meant you had to be good at defense and checking.

  

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poetx
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80. "Poetx Axiom #1: The rate of acceptance of fighting in pro "
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

sports declines in exponential proportionality to the percentage of black players.


bball and football? clutch the pearls, its the end of civilization. we must control these (code words).

baseball, hockey? tradition.




peace & blessings,

x.

www.twitter.com/poetx

=========================================
** i move away from the mic to breathe in

  

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ThaTruth
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83. "basically..."
In response to Reply # 80


          

>sports declines in exponential proportionality to the
>percentage of black players.
>
>
>bball and football? clutch the pearls, its the end of
>civilization. we must control these (code words).
>
>baseball, hockey? tradition.

________________________________________
"Take the surprise out your voice Shaq."-The REAL CP3
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v2H5K-BUMS0

  

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ConcreteCharlie
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89. ""
In response to Reply # 80


  

          

it's probably a simple majority white, maybe 60%, but it's not like the NHL which is still about 95% whiiiiiiiiiiiite.

And you will know MY JACKET IS GOLD when I lay my vengeance upon thee.

  

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KosherSam
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91. "ahaaa (c) Jewish Eddie Murphy; but he didn't say baseball was white"
In response to Reply # 89


  

          

he said it wasn't black.

*Jews you*

"this is okp tho, reading is completely optional" (c) desus

Proceed with caution. I am overtly racist.

<-- In Pigpen we trust

  

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ConcreteCharlie
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95. "Lotta Blacktinos though"
In response to Reply # 91


  

          

Plus I guess the whole "people of color" thing is a come-and-go convenience.

And you will know MY JACKET IS GOLD when I lay my vengeance upon thee.

  

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guru0509
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99. "i no black papi (c) @thekidmero"
In response to Reply # 95


  

          

-------------------
I wanna go to where the martyrs went
the brown figures on the walls of my apart-a-ment...

  

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Amritsar
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98. "lol they don't like this reply "
In response to Reply # 80


  

          

they = them over there

  

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RobOne4
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92. "for a sport so stuck on being "classy""
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

they sure do cop pleas every time something "classless" happens. I know the NHL recently did a poll and the players were still heavily in favor of fighting. Honestly its stupid and needs to end. Especially games like that one. Or the game before that when Vancouver played the Kings. The argument of fights turn the game around is so stupid. Half the time its guys fighting who have a history of fighting each other. Or some 1st line super star gets knocked into the boards clean and his body guard is defending his honor. Its really a joke. I want to say 10 years and its gone. But I doubt it.

November 8th, 2005 The greatest night in the history of GD!

  

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j0510
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96. "MORE FORMER PLAYERS SUE NHL REGARDING CONCUSSIONS"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

http://bigstory.ap.org/article/more-former-players-sue-nhl-regarding-concussions

MORE FORMER PLAYERS SUE NHL REGARDING CONCUSSIONS
By JON KRAWCZYNSKI
— Apr. 15, 2014 10:58 PM EDT

MINNEAPOLIS (AP) — Another group of former NHL players has joined the fight for compensation for head injuries they say they incurred while playing, while at the same time targeting the violence of the game that they believe brought about those injuries.

Retired players Dave Christian, Reed Larson and William Bennett filed a class action lawsuit in federal court on Tuesday alleging that the league has promoted fighting and downplayed the risk of head injuries that come from it.

"I think the glorified violence is really the Achilles heel for the NHL," said Charles "Bucky" Zimmerman, an attorney at Zimmerman Reed that filed the lawsuit on behalf of the players. "If anything comes of this, the focus on the glorified violence and perhaps the change to that will be a good thing."

The lawsuit, which is similar to one brought by former football players against the NFL, joins others filed by hockey players in Washington and New York and seeks monetary damages and increased medical monitoring.

"As we have indicated earlier, another lawsuit of this type is not unexpected," NHL Deputy Commissioner Bill Daly said in an email to The Associated Press. "It's the nature of these types of cases that once one is filed, a number of similarly styled cases follow. Nothing changes our belief that all of these cases are without merit and they will be defended accordingly."

The NHLPA declined to comment.

Zimmerman also worked on the football litigation, which resulted in the NFL agreeing to pay a $765 million settlement to thousands of former players. That settlement is still awaiting a judge's approval, but the headlines it generated have been partially responsible for hockey players mounting their own case against the NHL.

"We've seen it in football. It's now here in hockey. It's of the same genesis," Zimmerman said. "There's knowledge, we believe, that these type of concussive injuries were known and protections were not put in place appropriately enough and fast enough and rules changes were not implemented even today in fighting.

"Players continue to be at risk and suffer as a result of those risks that they take on behalf of the sport. We think those are unreasonable and they should be changed and the players should be compensated."

The lawsuit alleges "the NHL hid or minimized concussion risks from its players, thereby putting them at a substantially higher risk for developing memory loss, depression, cognitive difficulties, and even brain related diseases such as dementia, Alzheimer's disease, and Parkinson's disease."

One argument that tries to separate the NFL litigation from the NHL case is that by engaging in fighting, players willfully take on the health risks that could come from that.

"You could make that argument only to a point," Zimmerman said. "And the point is that the fighting arena would not exist and would be outlawed as it is in every other level of the game had the NHL not condoned it and sold tickets based upon it and promoted the sport in that way. It's not the players that promote the sport in that way because the players don't implement the rules. It's the league that implements the rules. If they would outlaw fighting, there wouldn't be people who would fight."

Zimmerman said he thinks more players will join the litigation much in the same way the group of plaintiffs in the NFL case exponentially grew as it progressed.

"The light went on for them as the football players' story was becoming more told," Zimmerman said. "I think the hockey players started to see that their story was going to be heard and told. It's not that we haven't known about football players or hockey players getting hurt. It's now become more important that we talk about it and do something about it rather than just benignly let it continue into the future."

___

AP Hockey Writer Larry Lage contributed to this report.

  

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cgonz00cc
Member since Aug 01st 2002
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97. "these guys didnt know that getting hit in the face could hurt them?"
In response to Reply # 96


  

          

Hits to the head are not legal and commonplace the way they are in football

I dont think this case is all that strong

  

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j0510
Member since Feb 02nd 2012
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Thu Apr-17-14 08:42 AM

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100. "RE: these guys didnt know that getting hit in the face could hurt them?"
In response to Reply # 97


  

          

>Hits to the head are not legal and commonplace the way they
>are in football
>
>I dont think this case is all that strong
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>

It's not about that. The same as with the lawsuit against the NFL, it's that the NHL knew this was bad, had evidence it was bad and willfully withheld that evidence from the players and did nothing to protect them from it.

Yes, hits to the head from hard checks and fighting are not legal, but the league packaged, promoted and sold that as being part of the game and did nothing to truly stop it. It's about the hypocrisy of the League, the same way the NFL sold videos of devastating and crushing hits but then tried to say that they really care for player safety.

  

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