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Lobby Okay Sports topic #2240583

Subject: "Kareem: Big O >>>>> Jordan or Bron" Search result list | First match | Last match
melmag
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Thu Oct-03-13 11:00 PM

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"Kareem: Big O >>>>> Jordan or Bron"


  

          

http://probasketballtalk.nbcsports.com/2013/10/03/kareem-says-oscar-robertson-better-than-jordan-or-lebron/


While most current NBA fans give Michael Jordan the nod in the hypothetical “best player ever” competition, but a lot of that is simply due to timing — most hoops fans alive today saw him play, or have heard the mythology of his era at least.

Basketball is a game that is hard to compare across eras and generations and most of us didn’t see the greats of the 1960s or 1970s play. Those that did have the same bias for the players of their generation as people who came of age in the 1990s do for Jordan.

Kareem Abdul-Jabbar was on ESPN’s Collin Cowherd radio show on Thursday and was asked about the greatest — and he went with the first major star he ever played with (transcription via LakersNation).

“LeBron is awesome, MJ was awesome — but I think Oscar Robinson would have kicked them both in the behind,” said Abdul-Jabbar when asked about James and Jordan. “Absolutely. Oscar was awesome. He had brains. He had all the skills.

“He could rebound and box out guys four and six inches taller than him. He was ruggedly built. He had fluid, quickness, and just understood the game. No flair, he just got the job done every night. Who’s going to average double figures in points, assists and rebounds?”

I don’t think anybody sane questions that Oscar Robertson belongs among the all-time greats. He is a perfect example of why the “rings” argument is a poor judge of a player — he carried bad teams pretty far, not winning until he was past his prime but Kareem joined him in Milwaukee. Robertson AVERAGED a triple double 1962, he was ridiculously good. He should be front and center in the Hall of Fame. But he also played in an era when the pace of the game was much faster, which boost his per-game numbers.

How does he stack up to Jordan and LeBron? I don’t know. I wasn’t alive when Robertson was at his peak and the grainy Youtube footage of him likely does not do his game justice.

It’s easy to say Jordan is the best or LeBron could challenge them, or that Magic Johnson belongs in the conversation, because we saw them — not in an unbiased way, but we saw them. We can form conclusions we just can’t with Robertson.

By the way, the guy always shortchanged in the GOAT conversation in Kareem himself.

  

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Topic Outline
Subject Author Message Date ID
When you win one chip, it's luck (c) Cheese-Eyes
Oct 03rd 2013
1
BIG O Belongs in the Conversation
Oct 04th 2013
2
Kareem: I'm old, WHERE ARE MY STRAINED PEAS DAMNIT?
Oct 04th 2013
3
Isn't this a pretty common opinion for players of that time?
Oct 04th 2013
4
or just human beings in general
Oct 04th 2013
7
Kareem: Ella Fitzgerald >>>>> Beyonce
Oct 04th 2013
5
proper posting
Oct 07th 2013
31
Far from a Bronista, but Bron's pace-adjusted stats are better, no?
Oct 04th 2013
6
I thinks it's more telling that MJ and Cap got Bron's name in their
Oct 04th 2013
8
^^^^^^^^
Oct 04th 2013
9
or it's just a hyperactive media world we live in
Oct 04th 2013
10
Jordan can't go a month it seems w/o mentioning Lebron's name
Oct 04th 2013
11
he know Bron better
Oct 05th 2013
12
that applies to MJ but not Cap, why would he feel threatened?
Oct 05th 2013
18
Bron coming for that #1 spot!
Oct 06th 2013
20
      many words, zero answers
Oct 06th 2013
21
           he better than Kareem
Oct 06th 2013
22
                1) no one else will compare them 2) your bron dickriding is out of contr...
Oct 06th 2013
25
The first half of Lebron's career guarantees he cannot be GOAT nm.
Oct 06th 2013
23
lol yeah because the first half of jorn's career was any better
Oct 06th 2013
26
      It was a LOT better and didn't involve losing with the better team.
Oct 06th 2013
30
           lol, "losing with the better team?" you are still cysing those cavs?
Oct 07th 2013
32
Because he's the current 2-time defending champ? The same...
Oct 06th 2013
29
why would anyone expect him to say anything else? that's his teammate.
Oct 05th 2013
13
he coulda said Magic
Oct 05th 2013
14
      he prolly thinks Magic gets enough praise (see: statue at Staples)
Oct 05th 2013
19
did fans always obsess over this best ever thing?
Oct 05th 2013
15
I think it was more who's the best at the moment but now ...
Oct 05th 2013
17
I've heard a ton of older cats say this, could be true
Oct 05th 2013
16
Duke played 4 season w/ Kareem & only has one chip to show for it
Oct 06th 2013
24
      he was already old by then
Oct 06th 2013
27
           Right, usually faced those stacked ass Boston teams or Wilt's squad...
Oct 06th 2013
28
                once the royals moved to the east, they were royally fucked.
Oct 07th 2013
33

FILF
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Thu Oct-03-13 11:52 PM

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1. "When you win one chip, it's luck (c) Cheese-Eyes"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

WHAT'S GOOD *****? What's REALLY good?!?!????!!! Ha HA!
http://40.media.tumblr.com/d8e2daf9f3f37244cd05436bcdf05973/tumblr_mt4qibKq4c1rgam01o1_1280.png

  

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mistermaxxx08
Member since Dec 31st 2010
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Fri Oct-04-13 01:02 AM

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2. "BIG O Belongs in the Conversation"
In response to Reply # 0


          

however he has more than a few times given Bron much love and he did say that Jordan while a Great player, was markted even Greater.

in my eyes Lebron is the Greatest I ever saw and then I would say Oscar along with Shaq, Kareem,Magic,Jordan and Bird

mistermaxxx R.Kelly, Michael Jackson,Stevie wonder,Rick James,Marvin Gaye,El Debarge, Barry WHite Lionel RIchie,Isleys EWF,Lady T.,Kid creole and coconuts,the crusaders,kc sunshine band,bee gees,jW,sd,NE,JB

Miami Heat, New York Yankees,buffalo bills

  

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bshelly
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Fri Oct-04-13 07:00 AM

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3. "Kareem: I'm old, WHERE ARE MY STRAINED PEAS DAMNIT?"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

----
bshelly

"You (Fisher) could get fired, Les Snead could get fired, Kevin Demoff could get fired, but I will always be Eric Dickerson.ā€¯ (c) The God

  

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Marauder21
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Fri Oct-04-13 09:54 AM

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4. "Isn't this a pretty common opinion for players of that time?"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

I realize Kareem came into the league when Big O was getting out of his prime years, but dude was pretty much considered GOAT at his position up until MJ.

------

12 play and 12 planets are enlighten for all the Aliens to Party and free those on the Sex Planet-maxxx

XBL: trkc21
Twitter: @tyrcasey

  

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Drizzit
Member since Sep 19th 2002
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Fri Oct-04-13 11:44 AM

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7. "or just human beings in general"
In response to Reply # 4


  

          

you get old and start grumbling, "kids these days ain't shit! back in my day ..."

applicable in all facets of life, really.

  

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southphillyman
Member since Oct 22nd 2003
90058 posts
Fri Oct-04-13 10:07 AM

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5. " Kareem: Ella Fitzgerald >>>>> Beyonce"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

~~~~~~

  

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MistaGoodBar
Member since Nov 04th 2004
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Mon Oct-07-13 08:29 AM

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31. "proper posting"
In response to Reply # 5


  

          

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
http://mistagoodbar.com
Twitter/IG: mistagoodbar
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

  

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theeraser
Member since Feb 11th 2007
7197 posts
Fri Oct-04-13 10:56 AM

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6. "Far from a Bronista, but Bron's pace-adjusted stats are better, no?"
In response to Reply # 0


          

  

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bentagain
Member since Mar 19th 2008
14429 posts
Fri Oct-04-13 11:47 AM

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8. "I thinks it's more telling that MJ and Cap got Bron's name in their"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

mouth...

...and he's only half way into his career

Feeling Threatened?

---------------------------------------------------------------

If you can't understand it without an explanation

you can't understand it with an explanation

  

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DanSpeak
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Fri Oct-04-13 12:19 PM

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9. "^^^^^^^^"
In response to Reply # 8


          

https://twitter.com/DJDanSpeak

https://soundcloud.com/dan-speak/the-voyage-mix?utm_source=soundcloud&utm_campaign=share&utm_medium=twitter

  

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Beamer6178
Member since Jan 09th 2006
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Fri Oct-04-13 12:40 PM

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10. "or it's just a hyperactive media world we live in"
In response to Reply # 8


  

          

and questions are being asked that lead to these answers.

>mouth...
>
>...and he's only half way into his career
>
>Feeling Threatened?

  

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vee-lover
Member since Jul 30th 2007
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Fri Oct-04-13 12:47 PM

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11. "Jordan can't go a month it seems w/o mentioning Lebron's name"
In response to Reply # 8


  

          

he, more than other great player, feels threatened abt Lebron replacing him in the minds of future generations as the GOAT.


>mouth...
>
>...and he's only half way into his career
>
>Feeling Threatened?

grassrootsphilosopher

  

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mistermaxxx08
Member since Dec 31st 2010
16076 posts
Sat Oct-05-13 01:36 AM

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12. "he know Bron better"
In response to Reply # 11


          

he can't avoid the bron express

mistermaxxx R.Kelly, Michael Jackson,Stevie wonder,Rick James,Marvin Gaye,El Debarge, Barry WHite Lionel RIchie,Isleys EWF,Lady T.,Kid creole and coconuts,the crusaders,kc sunshine band,bee gees,jW,sd,NE,JB

Miami Heat, New York Yankees,buffalo bills

  

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ConcreteCharlie
Member since Nov 21st 2002
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Sat Oct-05-13 09:58 AM

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18. "that applies to MJ but not Cap, why would he feel threatened?"
In response to Reply # 8


  

          

And you will know MY JACKET IS GOLD when I lay my vengeance upon thee.

  

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bentagain
Member since Mar 19th 2008
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Sun Oct-06-13 10:27 AM

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20. "Bron coming for that #1 spot!"
In response to Reply # 18


  

          

the argument for Bron being GOAT is based on efficiency

he's put up these statistical anomalies of seasons for efficiency

and now we see other players trying to focus on efficiency and NOT hero ball

so there is a definite shift in basketball in general

but, I did this in another post, if you project Bron's #s

assuming he's at the halfway point in his career

that projects to top 5 in scoring, top 10 in assists, and top 20 in rebounds

taking into consideration health and production level

he could catch Cap for that #1 spot

and finish top 5 in assists

those aren't completely out of the question

if he can do that, and add a couple of more chips

the argument for him being GOAT makes itself

---------------------------------------------------------------

If you can't understand it without an explanation

you can't understand it with an explanation

  

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ConcreteCharlie
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Sun Oct-06-13 10:34 AM

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21. "many words, zero answers"
In response to Reply # 20


  

          

lebron is no threat to jabbar's place in history.

And you will know MY JACKET IS GOLD when I lay my vengeance upon thee.

  

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mistermaxxx08
Member since Dec 31st 2010
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Sun Oct-06-13 02:39 PM

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22. "he better than Kareem"
In response to Reply # 21


          

because Bron been doing it on a real way.

teams gotta deal with him period.

he got chips, league awards and Dominance what else do you want?

and he ain't even 30 and you already know if he stays healthy, Motivated and driven then he will own it all.

and i didn't mention 2 gold medals as well.

Bron got old heads, Middle age heads and Young Heads all talking.

mistermaxxx R.Kelly, Michael Jackson,Stevie wonder,Rick James,Marvin Gaye,El Debarge, Barry WHite Lionel RIchie,Isleys EWF,Lady T.,Kid creole and coconuts,the crusaders,kc sunshine band,bee gees,jW,sd,NE,JB

Miami Heat, New York Yankees,buffalo bills

  

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ConcreteCharlie
Member since Nov 21st 2002
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Sun Oct-06-13 05:10 PM

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25. "1) no one else will compare them 2) your bron dickriding is out of contr..."
In response to Reply # 22


  

          

And you will know MY JACKET IS GOLD when I lay my vengeance upon thee.

  

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RaFromQueens
Member since Apr 18th 2006
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Sun Oct-06-13 02:44 PM

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23. "The first half of Lebron's career guarantees he cannot be GOAT nm."
In response to Reply # 8


  

          

---
"People that need positivity around them all the time are weak individuals in my book" - @lilduval

  

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ConcreteCharlie
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Sun Oct-06-13 05:11 PM

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26. "lol yeah because the first half of jorn's career was any better"
In response to Reply # 23


  

          

And you will know MY JACKET IS GOLD when I lay my vengeance upon thee.

  

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RaFromQueens
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30. "It was a LOT better and didn't involve losing with the better team."
In response to Reply # 26


  

          

It's remarkable really. Lebron is most notable for his statistically amazing seasons and yet has nothing like Jordans 32-8-8 season shooting 53%+.

Michael was better than Lebron at what Lebron does.

---
"People that need positivity around them all the time are weak individuals in my book" - @lilduval

  

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ConcreteCharlie
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Mon Oct-07-13 09:15 AM

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32. "lol, "losing with the better team?" you are still cysing those cavs?"
In response to Reply # 30


  

          

that says it all, really. they both won MVP in their fourth season, but bron was considerably younger. bron reached the finals first. we will see what the final chip count is but all things considered lebron is on his way.

i dont think the early parts of their careers are where to look at the gaps dude, sorry, and the fact that you are shows some insecurity about their primes/total careers. for why? jorn still got a nice lead here.

And you will know MY JACKET IS GOLD when I lay my vengeance upon thee.

  

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ThaTruth
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29. "Because he's the current 2-time defending champ? The same..."
In response to Reply # 8


  

          

conversations were had about Jordan when he was doing his thing

  

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Bombastic
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13. "why would anyone expect him to say anything else? that's his teammate."
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

www.somethinginthewudder.com

https://twitter.com/nostrabombus

https://www.facebook.com/matt.koelling.96

https://www.instagram.com/something_in_the_wudder/

https://www.linkedin.com/in/matt-koelling-438a803?trk=hp-identity-name

  

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melmag
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Sat Oct-05-13 09:49 AM

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14. "he coulda said Magic"
In response to Reply # 13


  

          

  

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Bombastic
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19. "he prolly thinks Magic gets enough praise (see: statue at Staples)"
In response to Reply # 14


  

          

plus Magic's beloved, for Kareem it would make much more sense for him to go with the older/quieter/sometimes-surly/misunderstood legend.

www.somethinginthewudder.com

https://twitter.com/nostrabombus

https://www.facebook.com/matt.koelling.96

https://www.instagram.com/something_in_the_wudder/

https://www.linkedin.com/in/matt-koelling-438a803?trk=hp-identity-name

  

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DJR
Member since Jan 01st 2005
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Sat Oct-05-13 09:54 AM

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15. "did fans always obsess over this best ever thing?"
In response to Reply # 0
Sat Oct-05-13 09:55 AM by DJR

  

          

I don't know. I don't remember it being discussed like this when I was a kid.

Maybe it's just because there's too much sports media now, that there's nothing to talk about so they have to fill time. It's just gotten to be a real tired, dead end conversation at this point though.

I don't know how people feel so confident about knowing who the best "ever" is when most of the ones who are all about this argument have only watched and experienced like 15 seasons of hoops. Some of the loudest ones, have seen much less than that.

  

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ConcreteCharlie
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17. "I think it was more who's the best at the moment but now ..."
In response to Reply # 15


  

          

LeBron has made that such a moot question that you've got to start looking back.

You don't see anyone comparing Kershaw to Steve Carlton or Warren Spahn in baseball or really pushing the issue to compare Sid and Gretzky in hockey.

Here this is kind of a legit debate to have Bron vs Jilla vs Big O or whatever, maybe even more so than Shaq vs Kareem vs Wilt. Only Shaq really held that debate while he was getting stoned and freestyling.

And you will know MY JACKET IS GOLD when I lay my vengeance upon thee.

  

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ConcreteCharlie
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16. "I've heard a ton of older cats say this, could be true"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

The Big O was a force, there is no denying that. It's too bad more of his career didn't come in a TV-friendlier era and that he didn't get the early TV shine that the Celtics and Wilt's teams did. Those early broadcasts were almost always Celtics-Warriors or Celtics-Sixers. I saw the series where his Royals played Boston in the Finals and a few other games, but it's not like you're going to find the mountain of film you would for Bron or Jordan.

Seems like an early generation Bron to me, physical beast with all sorts of skill.

And you will know MY JACKET IS GOLD when I lay my vengeance upon thee.

  

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FILF
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24. "Duke played 4 season w/ Kareem & only has one chip to show for it"
In response to Reply # 16


  

          

Meanwhile cats are grading Wilt on a curve b/c he only won one chip w/o an all-time 10 player when he was w/ the 76ers when he was going up against a loaded Celtics team. The reason the Bucks lost to the Wilt's Lakers in 72 (WCF) was b/c Oscar went MIA.

WHAT'S GOOD *****? What's REALLY good?!?!????!!! Ha HA!
http://40.media.tumblr.com/d8e2daf9f3f37244cd05436bcdf05973/tumblr_mt4qibKq4c1rgam01o1_1280.png

  

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ConcreteCharlie
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27. "he was already old by then"
In response to Reply # 24


  

          

in his prime those same celtics and a loaded lakers team and wilt were all crowding the top. who did he have? jerry lucas?

And you will know MY JACKET IS GOLD when I lay my vengeance upon thee.

  

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ThaTruth
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28. "Right, usually faced those stacked ass Boston teams or Wilt's squad..."
In response to Reply # 27


  

          

Nobody was getting past both of them in the east in the 60's

  

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ConcreteCharlie
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Mon Oct-07-13 09:17 AM

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33. "once the royals moved to the east, they were royally fucked."
In response to Reply # 28


  

          

And you will know MY JACKET IS GOLD when I lay my vengeance upon thee.

  

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