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Subject: "Y'all realize Mariano Rivera might be the best athlete ever, right? " Previous topic | Next topic
Orbit_Established
Member since Oct 27th 2002
52934 posts
Wed May-22-13 04:56 PM

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"Y'all realize Mariano Rivera might be the best athlete ever, right? "
Wed May-22-13 05:26 PM by Orbit_Established

  

          



Guacamole tonight, y'all. Tomatoes in it. Which one of y'all
said that tomatoes in Guac is embarrassing/unethical? Why again?
Honest question, its not too late to audible.

Oh, and lemon and not lime. Difference?

So yea-

Gay uncle might be the best athlete ever.


As in, any sport, any era, ever.


Y'all realize that, right?

Nah, not definitive.

But its a serious conversation. As in, get another drink,
this conversation gonna go pretty long. There will be a final
answer (which might not be Rivera), but your meatloaf will be
cold if you don't re-make them dinner plans.

Just letting you know, because things tend to show up on
my radar faster than they do yours and I'm willing to discuss
issues, high stakes issues, with an honesty and integrity that
most of you aren't accustomed to.

  

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Topic Outline
Subject Author Message Date ID
I don't even like baseball but that dude amazes me.
May 22nd 2013
1
If you play a sport with offense and defense
May 22nd 2013
2
Yea man, tomatoes is just a no go.
May 22nd 2013
3
just make pico de gallo on the side.
May 22nd 2013
8
      I bet money Guiness has some good ass groceries at his crib
May 22nd 2013
9
           mustache wax in bulk
May 22nd 2013
11
           artisanal freckle cream
May 22nd 2013
13
           you nailed it!
May 22nd 2013
14
           what's a fixie?
May 22nd 2013
17
                http://tinyurl.com/pjbtkcc
May 22nd 2013
26
                     i was hoping it meant a girl, lol
May 22nd 2013
37
                          OE is always down for a new misogynistic euphemism for pussy.
May 22nd 2013
41
                               Fixie in a relational sense seems more a term a woman would use
May 22nd 2013
54
                                    lemme get my fix and then peace the fuck out
May 22nd 2013
59
                                    Yes! As in, a "fix(i)ee/fixer" dichotomy.
May 22nd 2013
73
He's not an athlete he's a life coach and role model
May 22nd 2013
4
toasted pistachios in guac FTW
May 22nd 2013
5
im definitely intrigued...salted or unsalted?
May 24th 2013
148
      I'm definitely nauseous, no or FUCK NO
May 24th 2013
153
One of the greatest people ever.
May 22nd 2013
6
no lemons, limes always
May 22nd 2013
7
Fuck is 'cotija'. Even Will gone 'Girls' on me. Yuck.
May 22nd 2013
12
not seeing Frances Ha this weekend?
May 22nd 2013
16
i saw it three weeks ago
May 22nd 2013
18
      If I haven't seen it, and you have, that means I'm doing alright
May 22nd 2013
28
cotija good you tripping
May 22nd 2013
22
Lol
May 22nd 2013
35
cotija is not chic, it's like super basic messican cheese
May 22nd 2013
109
for real
May 22nd 2013
118
RE: Y'all realize Mariano Rivera might be the best athlete ever, right?
May 22nd 2013
10
garlic salt?
May 22nd 2013
15
      jalapenos optional
May 22nd 2013
114
           slice the garlic with a razor blade like paulie in goodfellas
May 22nd 2013
117
                thats really time consuming
May 23rd 2013
129
                     Wait -- all y'all don't dice your garlic?
May 23rd 2013
130
                          in a hurry, you can use garlic powder
May 23rd 2013
131
                          RE: in a hurry, you can use garlic powder
May 23rd 2013
134
                          I dice with oil and salt
May 23rd 2013
136
                               I'm traumatized by how emo you are up in here with dat GUAC
May 24th 2013
149
.
May 22nd 2013
.
May 22nd 2013
19
.
May 22nd 2013
.
May 22nd 2013
.
May 22nd 2013
.
May 22nd 2013
.
May 22nd 2013
.
May 22nd 2013
20
RE: Y'all realize Mariano Rivera might be the best athlete ever, right?
May 22nd 2013
21
he is a athlete of the soul. de cora manito
May 22nd 2013
23
Jackie isn't even the best multi-sport black athlete of his own era
May 22nd 2013
27
      .
May 22nd 2013
      .
May 22nd 2013
      .
May 22nd 2013
      .
May 22nd 2013
      .
May 22nd 2013
      .
May 22nd 2013
      nah
May 22nd 2013
30
      Get the cum from under your left mouse button, nigga. Jeezus.
May 22nd 2013
31
      eh, kinda sorta, anyway i'd probably go with jim thorpe here
May 22nd 2013
110
      This is a good post. n/m
May 22nd 2013
116
      All of Jackie Robinson's stats should have an asterisk, anyway
May 22nd 2013
112
           hahahahaha
May 22nd 2013
120
           lolololol
May 23rd 2013
128
Deion Sanders
May 22nd 2013
24
only a specialist
May 22nd 2013
119
RE: Y'all realize Mariano Rivera might be the best athlete ever, right?
May 22nd 2013
25
calling a specialist "best athlete ever" is idiocy
May 22nd 2013
29
"by definition." <--that made me sad.
May 22nd 2013
32
      RE: &quot;by definition.&quot; &lt;--that made me sad.
May 22nd 2013
33
      : - (
May 22nd 2013
38
           You're a dumbfuck & apparently have no clue how the game of baseball...
May 22nd 2013
40
           No picking your anal warts before posting anymore
May 22nd 2013
45
                as long as you pick Kweli's pubes from your teeth before u post
May 22nd 2013
49
                     Kweli? Nigga....bwahahah you the guy from the Lesson!!!!
May 22nd 2013
51
                          i was mad at this stupid Mo as the best athelete ever shit...
May 22nd 2013
53
                               Don't u think its odd that you're the only one mad?
May 22nd 2013
58
                                    I'M NOT REALLY MAD THO
May 22nd 2013
64
                                    he's a closer LOL
May 22nd 2013
65
                                         Seriously: don't you think its odd that you're the only one mad?
May 22nd 2013
71
                                              poor O_E, all alone out in the sea
May 22nd 2013
75
                                                   Nah, serious question: You don't feel odd? Being the only one mad?
May 22nd 2013
77
           RE: : - (
May 22nd 2013
44
                ^Somebody help this guy out.
May 22nd 2013
47
                     RE: ^Somebody help this guy out.
May 22nd 2013
48
                          Look up the definition of a "save"
May 22nd 2013
52
                               as in O_E's pops tried to save his mom from the streetlife...
May 22nd 2013
56
                               *CLANG*
May 22nd 2013
60
                               RE: Look up the definition of a "save"
May 22nd 2013
57
                                    : - (
May 22nd 2013
62
                                    RE: : - (
May 22nd 2013
63
                                    don't let him shag flies near the warning track
May 22nd 2013
66
                                         RE: don't let him shag flies near the warning track
May 22nd 2013
68
      ok we'll do this your way
May 22nd 2013
36
           BWAAHAHAHHA!!! WE GOT A LIVE ONE Y'ALL!!!!!
May 22nd 2013
39
                oh you're a new yorker
May 22nd 2013
42
                     Seriously -- where can I deliver a hug?
May 22nd 2013
50
http://www.imgnook.com/0mDa5o.gif
May 22nd 2013
34
most dominant sportsman of all time i can ride with
May 22nd 2013
43
No less loaded and subjective, but I feel you. n/m
May 22nd 2013
46
      I dunno
May 22nd 2013
55
           the problem is that ...
May 22nd 2013
61
           RE: the problem is that ...
May 22nd 2013
67
                LMAO Mark "MVP" Moseley better tho
May 22nd 2013
69
           Here's a formula. Its actually pretty good.
May 22nd 2013
83
Moderator request: A limit on frequent Lessonheads in OkaySports
May 22nd 2013
70
RE: Moderator request: A limit on frequent Lessonheads in OkaySports
May 22nd 2013
74
      You don't know what a save is.
May 22nd 2013
76
           RE: You don't know what a save is.
May 22nd 2013
78
                No, I'm serious. You don't know what a save is.
May 22nd 2013
79
                     RE: No, I'm serious. You don't know what a save is.
May 22nd 2013
81
                          You don't know what a save is.
May 22nd 2013
84
                               RE: You don't know what a save is.
May 22nd 2013
93
                                    You don't know what a save is
May 22nd 2013
94
                                         RE: You don't know what a save is
May 22nd 2013
98
lmao
May 22nd 2013
72
You know you're gonna have to define athlete, right?
May 22nd 2013
80
RE: You know you're gonna have to define athlete, right?
May 22nd 2013
82
Wait -- there's no universally understood, agreed upon definition?
May 22nd 2013
85
      Nah not joking. I might be so mad I can't think straight though.
May 22nd 2013
86
      Athletes are guys who can beat me at Madden.
May 22nd 2013
87
           k
May 22nd 2013
88
                Do you post in Okaysport often? Honest question
May 22nd 2013
91
      RE: Wait -- there's no universally understood, agreed upon definition?
May 22nd 2013
90
           I already told you: "defeat OE at Madden" is the objective defintion
May 22nd 2013
92
                RE: I already told you: "defeat OE at Madden" is the objective defintion
May 22nd 2013
96
                     You didn't know Mariano beat me at Madden? Fuck you been?
May 22nd 2013
99
                          RE: You didn't know Mariano beat me at Madden? Fuck you been?
May 22nd 2013
101
                               Yeah, so I used to play his son on Madden online. It was in GD
May 22nd 2013
102
                                    RE: Yeah, so I used to play his son on Madden online. It was in GD
May 22nd 2013
103
                                         I had to stop playing...my YMCA basketball league games interfered
May 22nd 2013
104
                                              RE: I had to stop playing...my YMCA basketball league games interfered
May 22nd 2013
106
                                                   real shit
May 22nd 2013
107
                                                        Being mad in posts does too, bro.
May 23rd 2013
127
                                                             LMAO
May 24th 2013
142
jesus lmao
May 22nd 2013
89
I learned what 'cotija' is and taught 2 white guys about 'fixies'
May 22nd 2013
100
      if i was you id probably feel the same way lol
May 23rd 2013
132
Eff it, OE is my favorite poster on the boards.
May 22nd 2013
95
RE: Eff it, OE is my favorite poster on the boards.
May 22nd 2013
97
i think im the best athlete i know in person
May 22nd 2013
105
A human being cant be the best "athlete" if running isn't involved
May 22nd 2013
108
Roger Federer
May 22nd 2013
111
If being the best at your job, relative to your peers, is the qualificat...
May 22nd 2013
113
Gretzky definitely is up there. But so is Mariano. n/m
May 22nd 2013
115
Gretzkty has more *assists* than any player in NHL history has *points*
May 23rd 2013
122
      yeah but the staggering totals speak more to longevity/team success
May 23rd 2013
125
give lemieux wayne's health and he blows everyone away
May 22nd 2013
121
      i love mario, but he DIDN'T stay healthy
May 23rd 2013
123
           but they were genetic injuries, not acquired ones
May 23rd 2013
124
                Agreed...I remember you broke down Lemieux/Gretzky on here
May 23rd 2013
126
                     to me it's akin to a magic/jordan debate but with some role reversals
May 23rd 2013
141
Rivera's legacy is so interesting to me.
May 23rd 2013
133
That's the thing about closers, though.
May 23rd 2013
135
      yeah but having discussed this with you before...
May 23rd 2013
137
           Oh yeah, definitely. I'm too lazy to look right now
May 23rd 2013
138
                My post wasn't about run support, or his team's offense.
May 23rd 2013
139
                     I see your point. Its a good one.
May 23rd 2013
140
                          There aren't a lot of guys who've been asked to duplicate it
May 24th 2013
143
                               I'm curious about your views on Guacamole
May 24th 2013
147
Y'all realize Mariano Duncan better...
May 24th 2013
144
better duncan: mariano or donuts?
May 24th 2013
145
Put CILANTRO and GARLIC SALT IN MY GUAC!!!!
May 24th 2013
146
http://www.countryliving.com/cm/countryliving/images/cilantro-de.jpg
May 24th 2013
150
ive never tried cilantro paste..i wonder what that taste like
May 24th 2013
151
i dont know what cilantro paste is or what it would be used for
May 24th 2013
154
Yeah he's a far better athlete than Mayweather!!!
May 24th 2013
152
SUCK IT
May 28th 2013
155

BrooklynWHAT
Member since Jun 15th 2007
85057 posts
Wed May-22-13 05:01 PM

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1. "I don't even like baseball but that dude amazes me."
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

my buddy pointed it out to me that Mariano's been at it so long, that he's the only player wearing 42. he's grandfathered in from when they retired his number all across baseball.

<--- Big Baller World Order

  

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AnonymousCoward
Member since Sep 17th 2002
15394 posts
Wed May-22-13 05:03 PM

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2. "If you play a sport with offense and defense"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

Where most players play both, and you only play one, you can't be considered the best.

http://clydefrazierapproves.com/
http://stylepoints.tumblr.com/

"Like 4 out of 5 things you say on OKP offend me." -FireBrand

  

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guru0509
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45342 posts
Wed May-22-13 05:03 PM

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3. "Yea man, tomatoes is just a no go. "
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

I love them as much as the next person, but naaah...


and no white onions either. purple all day.


i like lime and lemon. i dont mind using both...

no comment on The Closer

>Guacamole tonight, y'all. Tomatoes in it. Which one of y'all
>said that tomatoes in Guac is embarrassing/unethical? Why
>again?
>Honest question, its not too late to audible.
>
>Oh, and Lemon and not lime. Difference?
>
>So yea-
>
>Gay uncle might be the best athlete ever.
>
>
>As in, any sport, any era, ever.
>
>
>Y'all realize that, right?
>
>Nah, not definitive.
>
>But its a serious conversation. As in, get another drink,
>this conversation gonna go pretty long. There will be a final
>answer (which might not be Rivera), but your meatloaf will be
>
>cold if you don't re-make them dinner plans.
>
>Just letting you know, because things tend to show up on
>my radar faster than they do yours and I'm willing to discuss
>issues, high stakes issues, with an honesty and integrity
>that
>most of you aren't accustomed to.
>

-------------------
I wanna go to where the martyrs went
the brown figures on the walls of my apart-a-ment...

  

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Guinness
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26270 posts
Wed May-22-13 05:15 PM

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8. "just make pico de gallo on the side."
In response to Reply # 3


  

          

  

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Orbit_Established
Member since Oct 27th 2002
52934 posts
Wed May-22-13 05:20 PM

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9. "I bet money Guiness has some good ass groceries at his crib"
In response to Reply # 8


  

          


You probably spend money on:

- internet
- NBA League pass
- Your fixie
- rent
- craft beers
- the farmer's market for the GOOD groceries

Tell me I'm wrong


----------------------------



O_E: "Acts like an asshole and posts with imperial disdain"




"I ORBITs the solar system, listenin..."

(C)Keith Murray, "

  

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T Reynolds
Member since Apr 16th 2007
42760 posts
Wed May-22-13 05:23 PM

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11. "mustache wax in bulk "
In response to Reply # 9


  

          

  

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AnonymousCoward
Member since Sep 17th 2002
15394 posts
Wed May-22-13 05:29 PM

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13. "artisanal freckle cream"
In response to Reply # 11


  

          

http://clydefrazierapproves.com/
http://stylepoints.tumblr.com/

"Like 4 out of 5 things you say on OKP offend me." -FireBrand

  

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Guinness
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Wed May-22-13 05:31 PM

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14. "you nailed it!"
In response to Reply # 9


  

          

i do indeed spend money on rent

  

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Bombastic
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Wed May-22-13 05:38 PM

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17. "what's a fixie?"
In response to Reply # 9


  

          

>
>You probably spend money on:
>
>- internet
>- NBA League pass
>- Your fixie
>- rent
>- craft beers
>- the farmer's market for the GOOD groceries
>
>Tell me I'm wrong
>
>
>----------------------------
>
>
>
>O_E: "Acts like an asshole and posts with imperial disdain"
>
>
>
>
>"I ORBITs the solar system, listenin..."
>
>(C)Keith Murray, "

  

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Orbit_Established
Member since Oct 27th 2002
52934 posts
Wed May-22-13 06:04 PM

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26. "http://tinyurl.com/pjbtkcc"
In response to Reply # 17


  

          


http://tinyurl.com/pjbtkcc

----------------------------



O_E: "Acts like an asshole and posts with imperial disdain"




"I ORBITs the solar system, listenin..."

(C)Keith Murray, "

  

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3xKrazy
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Wed May-22-13 07:10 PM

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37. "i was hoping it meant a girl, lol"
In response to Reply # 26


          

not what i expected

  

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Orbit_Established
Member since Oct 27th 2002
52934 posts
Wed May-22-13 07:17 PM

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41. "OE is always down for a new misogynistic euphemism for pussy. "
In response to Reply # 37


  

          

>not what i expected

What kind of woman are we describing?

Guy A: "Bro, bro. She was a FIXIE"

Guy B: "Woooord!?!?!? Oohh shiitt!!"


Eh, dunno about that.


----------------------------



O_E: "Acts like an asshole and posts with imperial disdain"




"I ORBITs the solar system, listenin..."

(C)Keith Murray, "

  

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Bombastic
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Wed May-22-13 07:35 PM

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54. "Fixie in a relational sense seems more a term a woman would use"
In response to Reply # 41
Wed May-22-13 07:36 PM by Bombastic

  

          

they might describe a dude they were trying to teach to dress, improve manners, make listen to them, get his teeth fixed, get a new job, etc as a 'fixie'.

To us it's probably either there or not, whether it be a relationship or a one-nighter, we have no real time/inclination to try to tinker with em.

  

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3xKrazy
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59. "lemme get my fix and then peace the fuck out"
In response to Reply # 54
Wed May-22-13 07:39 PM by 3xKrazy

          

could prob apply to either gender

at least that was my best crack at it as im not up on hipster bike culture

  

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Orbit_Established
Member since Oct 27th 2002
52934 posts
Wed May-22-13 07:51 PM

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73. "Yes! As in, a "fix(i)ee/fixer" dichotomy. "
In response to Reply # 54


  

          


Guys talk about "fixer" females

Girls talk about "fix(i)ee" guys

I can dig that

----------------------------



O_E: "Acts like an asshole and posts with imperial disdain"




"I ORBITs the solar system, listenin..."

(C)Keith Murray, "

  

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T Reynolds
Member since Apr 16th 2007
42760 posts
Wed May-22-13 05:04 PM

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4. "He's not an athlete he's a life coach and role model"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

carmelo anthony is an athlete

lebron james is an athlete

Kobe is a life coach

Mo is more than that

  

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Guinness
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5. "toasted pistachios in guac FTW"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

  

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guru0509
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148. "im definitely intrigued...salted or unsalted?"
In response to Reply # 5


  

          

-------------------
I wanna go to where the martyrs went
the brown figures on the walls of my apart-a-ment...

  

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Mgmt
Member since Feb 17th 2005
21496 posts
Fri May-24-13 09:48 PM

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153. "I'm definitely nauseous, no or FUCK NO"
In response to Reply # 148


  

          

  

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RaFromQueens
Member since Apr 18th 2006
19528 posts
Wed May-22-13 05:11 PM

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6. "One of the greatest people ever."
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

We will never appreciate his greatness enough.

---
"People that need positivity around them all the time are weak individuals in my book" - @lilduval

  

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will_5198
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Wed May-22-13 05:14 PM

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7. "no lemons, limes always"
In response to Reply # 0


          

no limits on the other ingredients, though. chopped bacon can be good. smoked jalapenos. cotija.

--------

  

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Orbit_Established
Member since Oct 27th 2002
52934 posts
Wed May-22-13 05:27 PM

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12. "Fuck is 'cotija'. Even Will gone 'Girls' on me. Yuck. "
In response to Reply # 7


  

          

>no limits on the other ingredients, though. chopped bacon can
>be good. smoked jalapenos. cotija.


----------------------------



O_E: "Acts like an asshole and posts with imperial disdain"




"I ORBITs the solar system, listenin..."

(C)Keith Murray, "

  

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will_5198
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Wed May-22-13 05:35 PM

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16. "not seeing Frances Ha this weekend?"
In response to Reply # 12


          

--------

  

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Guinness
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Wed May-22-13 05:38 PM

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18. "i saw it three weeks ago "
In response to Reply # 16


  

          

back when it was cool

  

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Orbit_Established
Member since Oct 27th 2002
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28. "If I haven't seen it, and you have, that means I'm doing alright"
In response to Reply # 18


  

          


You still my boy though

Gimme a shug

----------------------------



O_E: "Acts like an asshole and posts with imperial disdain"




"I ORBITs the solar system, listenin..."

(C)Keith Murray, "

  

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T Reynolds
Member since Apr 16th 2007
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22. "cotija good you tripping"
In response to Reply # 12


  

          

  

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Ceej
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35. "Lol"
In response to Reply # 12


  

          

http://i.imgur.com/vPqCzVU.jpg

  

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ConcreteCharlie
Member since Nov 21st 2002
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109. "cotija is not chic, it's like super basic messican cheese"
In response to Reply # 12


  

          

And you will know MY JACKET IS GOLD when I lay my vengeance upon thee.

  

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nighttripper
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118. "for real"
In response to Reply # 7


  

          

if you can't tell the difference between lime and lemon...your papilla is just fucked up.

  

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RobOne4
Member since Jun 06th 2003
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10. "RE: Y'all realize Mariano Rivera might be the best athlete ever, right? "
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

Diced onions, chopped tomato, lime juice, avocado,cilantro, garlic salt, and pepper

November 8th, 2005 The greatest night in the history of GD!

  

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Guinness
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15. "garlic salt?"
In response to Reply # 10


  

          

no jalapeños?

  

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RobOne4
Member since Jun 06th 2003
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114. "jalapenos optional"
In response to Reply # 15


  

          

when I make guacamole I usually make a salsa or two with it. No use in making both spicy.

Also if you arent seasoning your guac with salt and pepper you are doing it wrong. So garlic salt gives a little bit of garlic flavor with out having to accidentally bite into raw garlic once in a while.

November 8th, 2005 The greatest night in the history of GD!

  

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nighttripper
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117. "slice the garlic with a razor blade like paulie in goodfellas"
In response to Reply # 114
Wed May-22-13 11:41 PM by nighttripper

  

          

fresher garlicky taste, no biting in raw garlic feel
admittedly more time consuming, though

  

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RobOne4
Member since Jun 06th 2003
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129. "thats really time consuming"
In response to Reply # 117


  

          

fuck that

November 8th, 2005 The greatest night in the history of GD!

  

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Orbit_Established
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130. "Wait -- all y'all don't dice your garlic? "
In response to Reply # 129


  

          


I break down my garlic B

How else do you do it?

Garlic powder?

----------------------------



O_E: "Acts like an asshole and posts with imperial disdain"




"I ORBITs the solar system, listenin..."

(C)Keith Murray, "

  

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nighttripper
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131. "in a hurry, you can use garlic powder"
In response to Reply # 130


  

          

or garlic salt instead of salt

not gonna say I never resort to that, because chopping garlic small enough that it gives flavor without the overwhelming taste of chewing on a big chunk is a pain in the ass, but most of the times I take the time to do it. Same for vinaigrettes, too.

  

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RobOne4
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134. "RE: in a hurry, you can use garlic powder"
In response to Reply # 131


  

          

yeah dicing garlic isnt enough if you are going raw IMO. All it takes is getting that one piece of garlic and your taste buds are fucked for the next 10 minutes. So slicing super thin makes sense.

November 8th, 2005 The greatest night in the history of GD!

  

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will_5198
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136. "I dice with oil and salt"
In response to Reply # 130


          

start with a rough dice, then pour a little oil (olive, or neutral if you care) and kosher salt on top. spread it out with the flat part of your knife and then go back to dicing -- it'll get really fine, really quick.

oh and make sure you remove the germ beforehand.

--------

  

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Orbit_Established
Member since Oct 27th 2002
52934 posts
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149. "I'm traumatized by how emo you are up in here with dat GUAC"
In response to Reply # 136
Fri May-24-13 03:34 PM by Orbit_Established

  

          

I'm very disappointed in how effeminate you are
up in here

Don't care about your sexual preference

I'm not happy with how emo your guacamole skills are

Seriously

btw I bought some garlic salt

STILL diced some garlics up too


----------------------------



O_E: "Acts like an asshole and posts with imperial disdain"




"I ORBITs the solar system, listenin..."

(C)Keith Murray, "

  

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Selah
Member since Jun 05th 2002
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"."
Wed May-22-13 05:57 PM by Selah

          

.

  

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Selah
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19. "."
In response to Reply # 0
Wed May-22-13 05:57 PM by Selah

          

.

  

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Selah
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"."
Wed May-22-13 05:57 PM by Selah

          

.

  

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Selah
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"."
Wed May-22-13 05:57 PM by Selah

          

.

  

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Selah
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"."
Wed May-22-13 05:57 PM by Selah

          

.

  

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Selah
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"."
Wed May-22-13 05:58 PM by Selah

          

.

  

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Selah
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"."
Wed May-22-13 05:58 PM by Selah

          

.

  

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Selah
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20. "."
In response to Reply # 0
Wed May-22-13 05:58 PM by Selah

          

.

  

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Selah
Member since Jun 05th 2002
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21. "RE: Y'all realize Mariano Rivera might be the best athlete ever, right? "
In response to Reply # 0


          

explain how rivera is a better athlete than Jackie Robinson

Robinson in college excelled in four sports (baseball, basketball, football and track), won a tennis title at 17 and played baseball professionally for nine years

for grins...

  

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T Reynolds
Member since Apr 16th 2007
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23. "he is a athlete of the soul. de cora manito"
In response to Reply # 21


  

          

  

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Orbit_Established
Member since Oct 27th 2002
52934 posts
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27. "Jackie isn't even the best multi-sport black athlete of his own era"
In response to Reply # 21


  

          


That would be Jim Brown

But to answer your question: Mariano is better at his
job than Jackie was at his job and that's obviously
saying nothing bad about Jackie, who was a god

Mariano is better than a god, though

----------------------------



O_E: "Acts like an asshole and posts with imperial disdain"




"I ORBITs the solar system, listenin..."

(C)Keith Murray, "

  

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Selah
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"."
Wed May-22-13 06:42 PM by Selah

          

.

  

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Selah
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"."
Wed May-22-13 06:42 PM by Selah

          

.

  

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Selah
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"."
Wed May-22-13 06:42 PM by Selah

          

.

  

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Selah
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"."
Wed May-22-13 06:42 PM by Selah

          

.

  

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Selah
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"."
Wed May-22-13 06:42 PM by Selah

          

.

  

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Selah
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"."
Wed May-22-13 06:43 PM by Selah

          

.

  

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Selah
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30. "nah"
In response to Reply # 27
Wed May-22-13 06:43 PM by Selah

          

>That would be Jim Brown

pulling out jim brown was a bigger gun than needed

>But to answer your question: Mariano is better at his
>job than Jackie was at his job and that's obviously
>saying nothing bad about Jackie, who was a god

quantify that for me

but stretching your logic (better@job==better athlete) and using the example you gave how is he a better athlete than Carl Lewis?

  

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Orbit_Established
Member since Oct 27th 2002
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31. "Get the cum from under your left mouse button, nigga. Jeezus. "
In response to Reply # 30
Wed May-22-13 06:47 PM by Orbit_Established

  

          

Fuck is wrong with your posting

As to your point, Carl Lewis is in the discussion.

He wasn't as dominant as long as Mariano, though

But he's absolutely in the discussion

----------------------------



O_E: "Acts like an asshole and posts with imperial disdain"




"I ORBITs the solar system, listenin..."

(C)Keith Murray, "

  

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ConcreteCharlie
Member since Nov 21st 2002
71387 posts
Wed May-22-13 09:44 PM

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110. "eh, kinda sorta, anyway i'd probably go with jim thorpe here"
In response to Reply # 27


  

          

chamberlain and jim brown would be on my list, carl lewis, jjk, etc.

rivera i think deserves another distinction and that is the guy who is most clearly the best at his role and/or position. someone will come along who's faster than usain bolt, but there's nothing saying someone will come along better than rivera at closing games.

jordan has oscar, the elite centers have one another, gretzky has mario, etc. i'd look at rivera as a closer and perhaps bobby orr as a defenseman as the guys that are clearly the best at their spot all time.

And you will know MY JACKET IS GOLD when I lay my vengeance upon thee.

  

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Orbit_Established
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116. "This is a good post. n/m"
In response to Reply # 110


  

          

>chamberlain and jim brown would be on my list, carl lewis,
>jjk, etc.
>
>rivera i think deserves another distinction and that is the
>guy who is most clearly the best at his role and/or position.
>someone will come along who's faster than usain bolt, but
>there's nothing saying someone will come along better than
>rivera at closing games.
>
>jordan has oscar, the elite centers have one another, gretzky
>has mario, etc. i'd look at rivera as a closer and perhaps
>bobby orr as a defenseman as the guys that are clearly the
>best at their spot all time.


----------------------------



O_E: "Acts like an asshole and posts with imperial disdain"




"I ORBITs the solar system, listenin..."

(C)Keith Murray, "

  

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KosherSam
Member since Mar 18th 2004
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112. "All of Jackie Robinson's stats should have an asterisk, anyway"
In response to Reply # 27


  

          

I mean, it's not fair. He only had to play against white guys! (c) My friend's brother, the aspiring stand-up comedian.

*Jews you*

"this is okp tho, reading is completely optional" (c) desus

Proceed with caution. I am overtly racist.

<-- In Pigpen we trust

  

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ConcreteCharlie
Member since Nov 21st 2002
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120. "hahahahaha"
In response to Reply # 112


  

          

And you will know MY JACKET IS GOLD when I lay my vengeance upon thee.

  

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LegacyNS
Member since Jan 16th 2004
38095 posts
Thu May-23-13 10:55 AM

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128. "lolololol"
In response to Reply # 112


  

          


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
<---- 5....
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dlgiritpmfo

=======================================
Occupy Big Government..

Fannie, Freddie dole out big bonuses
http://www.politico.com/news/stories/1011/67292.html

  

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FromTheGo
Member since Feb 04th 2003
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Wed May-22-13 06:00 PM

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24. "Deion Sanders"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

Defense, Offense, Special Teams...AND baseball...


Best athlete


Honorale mention

Dave Winfield
Lebron James
and whoever is the Olympic record holder in the decathlon.





†††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††
http://s17.postimg.org/6r7bfqpnz/kyrieglass.jpg - They Call Him Mr. Glass

  

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AlBundy
Member since May 27th 2002
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Wed May-22-13 11:45 PM

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119. "only a specialist"
In response to Reply # 24


  

          

-------------------------
“The other dude after me didn’t help my case. It was just like…crazy nigga factory going on.”
Dre makes no apologies for his own eccentricities. “I was young, and searching, trying to find myself,” he says. “Never did.”-- Andre B

  

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playmaker88
Member since Sep 20th 2012
169 posts
Wed May-22-13 06:04 PM

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25. "RE: Y'all realize Mariano Rivera might be the best athlete ever, right? "
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

Athlete? lol

Steady Plexin'

  

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philpot
Member since Apr 01st 2007
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Wed May-22-13 06:36 PM

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29. "calling a specialist "best athlete ever" is idiocy"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

he's a closing pitcher & by definition does not do or play enough to even be considered

great athelete tho, i wont let my NYY hate blind me to that

________________________________________________________________
whenever you did these things to the least of my brothers you did them to me

  

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Orbit_Established
Member since Oct 27th 2002
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32. ""by definition." <--that made me sad. "
In response to Reply # 29


  

          

>he's a closing pitcher & by definition does not do or play
>enough to even be considered

No, actually, there is no definition of what can be considered

You're just making shit up, which is fine, but I'm gonna tell you
that you're just making shit up

>great athelete tho, i wont let my NYY hate blind me to that


----------------------------



O_E: "Acts like an asshole and posts with imperial disdain"




"I ORBITs the solar system, listenin..."

(C)Keith Murray, "

  

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playmaker88
Member since Sep 20th 2012
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33. "RE: &quot;by definition.&quot; &lt;--that made me sad. "
In response to Reply # 32
Wed May-22-13 06:59 PM by playmaker88

  

          

dude only does one thing well for 9 games worth of innings a year with the most expensive lineup covering his backside. 0 complete games to his name with 4 plate appearances, 0 hits, 0 stolen bases.

Steady Plexin'

  

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Orbit_Established
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38. ": - ( "
In response to Reply # 33
Wed May-22-13 07:13 PM by Orbit_Established

  

          

>dude only does one thing well for 9 games worth of innings a
>year with the most expensive lineup covering his backside.

By definition, a most expensive lineup covering his backside
has nothing to do with closing a game.

If you said "best defense" that'd be something different, but
the Yankees defense is rarely elite

>complete games to his name with 4 plate appearances, 0 hits, 0
>stolen bases.

You mean, take the ball in the most contentious, pressure inducing
situations, over and over and over again, and succeed.

And go from best ever to ungodly in the postseason when it counts.

There's a reason nobody is as good. Because closing is fucking hard.

And there's a reason baseball writers are saying that he'll be the first
unanimous first ballot selection to the Hall of Fame in the history of the
sport.


----------------------------



O_E: "Acts like an asshole and posts with imperial disdain"




"I ORBITs the solar system, listenin..."

(C)Keith Murray, "

  

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philpot
Member since Apr 01st 2007
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Wed May-22-13 07:14 PM

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40. "You're a dumbfuck & apparently have no clue how the game of baseball..."
In response to Reply # 38


  

          

is actually played

this guy is great but BY DEFINITION participates in, at the most (barring a few games), 1/18th of the entire game

ur idea is dumb

and unoriginal

and wrong

very wrong

________________________________________________________________
whenever you did these things to the least of my brothers you did them to me

  

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Orbit_Established
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45. "No picking your anal warts before posting anymore"
In response to Reply # 40


  

          


And I"m going to need a little less Sonic the Hedgehog

>is actually played
>
>this guy is great but BY DEFINITION participates in, at the
>most (barring a few games), 1/18th of the entire game

He, by definition is the last person to throw a pitch most of time
he pitches.

He, by definition, is one of the reasons the Yankees are a
successful franchise.

>ur idea is dumb
>
>and unoriginal
>
>and wrong
>
>very wrong

Nah, I'm putting the heat on, man. I'm pushing the envelope
and am proud of the man I'm developed into. Its taken hard
work...and I'm still pushing!! But it feels good to be alive, bro


----------------------------



O_E: "Acts like an asshole and posts with imperial disdain"




"I ORBITs the solar system, listenin..."

(C)Keith Murray, "

  

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philpot
Member since Apr 01st 2007
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Wed May-22-13 07:27 PM

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49. "as long as you pick Kweli's pubes from your teeth before u post"
In response to Reply # 45


  

          


>He, by definition, is one of the reasons the Yankees are a
>successful franchise.
>

"one of the" reasons

as opposed to Michael Jordan

who is "THE" reason


________________________________________________________________
whenever you did these things to the least of my brothers you did them to me

  

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Orbit_Established
Member since Oct 27th 2002
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51. "Kweli? Nigga....bwahahah you the guy from the Lesson!!!!"
In response to Reply # 49


  

          


Bwahahahahahahhahahahahaahhaahah
hahahahhaahhahahahahahahahhahaha

I honestly had no idea

Can't tell y'all apart

Nigga came in here MAD based on some shit I said in the
Lesson

I was serious about your anal warts, bro

>>He, by definition, is one of the reasons the Yankees are a
>>successful franchise.
>"one of the" reasons
>
>as opposed to Michael Jordan
>
>who is "THE" reason

Actually, Michael Jordan never won a championship without
Scottie Pippen.

See what I just did there.


----------------------------



O_E: "Acts like an asshole and posts with imperial disdain"




"I ORBITs the solar system, listenin..."

(C)Keith Murray, "

  

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philpot
Member since Apr 01st 2007
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Wed May-22-13 07:34 PM

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53. "i was mad at this stupid Mo as the best athelete ever shit..."
In response to Reply # 51


  

          

when Buster Olney tweeted it weeks ago

he's a baseball guy tho, YOU should know better

lmao, comparing THE driving force on a perennially dominating team to a CLOSING PITCHER

bwahahahahahahaha

that's a special kind of dumb

________________________________________________________________
whenever you did these things to the least of my brothers you did them to me

  

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Orbit_Established
Member since Oct 27th 2002
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58. "Don't u think its odd that you're the only one mad? "
In response to Reply # 53
Wed May-22-13 07:39 PM by Orbit_Established

  

          

Everyone else either made a relaxed point or talked about
Guacamole

We're having a ball in here, man


You were enraged from JUMP


I baited you into that....because you were too enraged to just


But your point was dumb...you said "MJ was THE reason"

Actually, he wasn't, because the Bulls didn't win until
Scottie Pippen got there. So, by definition, Michael Jordan
was one of the reasons. Pippen was another.

As for Mariano -- that's what makes baseball so good. Its
an individual sport masquerading as a team sport. We can
judge his excellence almost entirely on its own.

And the distance between he and the second best person to
their job is probably bigger than anyone in any sport, ever.

That's an arbitrary definition, but no more arbitrary than any other.



----------------------------



O_E: "Acts like an asshole and posts with imperial disdain"




"I ORBITs the solar system, listenin..."

(C)Keith Murray, "

  

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philpot
Member since Apr 01st 2007
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64. "I'M NOT REALLY MAD THO "
In response to Reply # 58


  

          

IM TYPING IN ALL CAPS AND IM CLOWNING THE FUCK OUT OF YOU ACTING LIKE I CARE BUT IN REALITY IM CHILLING WATCHING THE Os WHUP THESE NY BAMMAS


________________________________________________________________
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philpot
Member since Apr 01st 2007
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65. "he's a closer LOL"
In response to Reply # 58


  

          

thats a subdivision of a subdivision

it disqualifies him

PERIOD

his individual stature in his subdivision of a subdivision is entirely irrelevant

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whenever you did these things to the least of my brothers you did them to me

  

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Orbit_Established
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71. "Seriously: don't you think its odd that you're the only one mad? "
In response to Reply # 65


  

          


I"m just curious how that makes you feel.

----------------------------



O_E: "Acts like an asshole and posts with imperial disdain"




"I ORBITs the solar system, listenin..."

(C)Keith Murray, "

  

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philpot
Member since Apr 01st 2007
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75. "poor O_E, all alone out in the sea"
In response to Reply # 71


  

          

the only thing keeping him alive is his little life preserver that says "you mad" on it ...

then he realizes it's not saving him

in fact

it's an illusion created by his own creative mind, with the express purpose of keeping him from admitting that he is slowly drowning...

________________________________________________________________
whenever you did these things to the least of my brothers you did them to me

  

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Orbit_Established
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77. "Nah, serious question: You don't feel odd? Being the only one mad? "
In response to Reply # 75


  

          


We're having a ball, talking about fixies and pussy and lemons.

Honestly, I want to know how that makes you feel.

----------------------------



O_E: "Acts like an asshole and posts with imperial disdain"




"I ORBITs the solar system, listenin..."

(C)Keith Murray, "

  

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playmaker88
Member since Sep 20th 2012
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Wed May-22-13 07:19 PM

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44. "RE: : - ( "
In response to Reply # 38
Wed May-22-13 07:21 PM by playmaker88

  

          

>By definition, a most expensive lineup covering his backside
>has nothing to do with closing a game.

so he just strikes out all batters? no one is fielding or consistently putting leads on the board?


>You mean, take the ball in the most contentious, pressure
>inducing
>situations, over and over and over again, and succeed.

with a lead and gold gloves behind him for 15/20 pitches

>And go from best ever to ungodly in the postseason when it
>counts.

with the help of a team

>There's a reason nobody is as good. Because closing is fucking
>hard.

no one else gets to close for the yanks in his era


>And there's a reason baseball writers are saying that he'll be
>the first
>unanimous first ballot selection to the Hall of Fame in the
>history of the
>sport.

Not denying this, he just isn't all that 'athletic,' he throws well, that's it. any anyone that doesn't play more than 5% of innings in a season shouldn't be in discussion

Steady Plexin'

  

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Orbit_Established
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47. "^Somebody help this guy out. "
In response to Reply # 44


  

          



----------------------------



O_E: "Acts like an asshole and posts with imperial disdain"




"I ORBITs the solar system, listenin..."

(C)Keith Murray, "

  

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playmaker88
Member since Sep 20th 2012
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48. "RE: ^Somebody help this guy out. "
In response to Reply # 47


  

          

You help me out

Steady Plexin'

  

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Orbit_Established
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52. "Look up the definition of a "save" "
In response to Reply # 48


  

          


By definition he doesn't get a save unless the spread is
within a certain number of runs

So his runs support isn't relevant

He always pitches when the game is close

----------------------------



O_E: "Acts like an asshole and posts with imperial disdain"




"I ORBITs the solar system, listenin..."

(C)Keith Murray, "

  

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philpot
Member since Apr 01st 2007
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Wed May-22-13 07:37 PM

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56. "as in O_E's pops tried to save his mom from the streetlife..."
In response to Reply # 52


  

          

but O_E still sat up crying at night wondering why mommy was never around?


here's a word for you to look up: SPECIALIST

as in O_E needs a specialist in psychiatric medicine.

________________________________________________________________
whenever you did these things to the least of my brothers you did them to me

  

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Orbit_Established
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60. "*CLANG* "
In response to Reply # 56


  

          


Dude

----------------------------



O_E: "Acts like an asshole and posts with imperial disdain"




"I ORBITs the solar system, listenin..."

(C)Keith Murray, "

  

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playmaker88
Member since Sep 20th 2012
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Wed May-22-13 07:38 PM

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57. "RE: Look up the definition of a "save" "
In response to Reply # 52


  

          

>
>By definition he doesn't get a save unless the spread is
>within a certain number of runs

But its still a lead right?

>So his runs support isn't relevant
>
>He always pitches when the game is close

How is it not relevant if he has to have a lead to earn a save?

Still, 0 complete games, doesn't bat.....and what other 'athletic' ability is he showing other than throwing a ball very well?

Steady Plexin'

  

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Orbit_Established
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62. ": - ("
In response to Reply # 57


  

          


>But its still a lead right?

I give up.


----------------------------



O_E: "Acts like an asshole and posts with imperial disdain"




"I ORBITs the solar system, listenin..."

(C)Keith Murray, "

  

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playmaker88
Member since Sep 20th 2012
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63. "RE: : - ("
In response to Reply # 62


  

          

Please do

Steady Plexin'

  

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philpot
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66. "don't let him shag flies near the warning track"
In response to Reply # 57


  

          

he might display his athleticism


too soon?

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whenever you did these things to the least of my brothers you did them to me

  

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playmaker88
Member since Sep 20th 2012
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68. "RE: don't let him shag flies near the warning track"
In response to Reply # 66


  

          

lol

Steady Plexin'

  

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philpot
Member since Apr 01st 2007
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36. "ok we'll do this your way"
In response to Reply # 32


  

          

you're an idiot and you are furious that i exposed ur wack ass opinion that u actually stole from Buster Olney who tweeted this weeks ago and who was also wrong & blinded by his baseball bias

just another gaping black hole of ignorance & arrogance from the king of those 2 attributes, YOU

mad as fuck

wrong as fuck

dumb as fuck

as usual

by definition

________________________________________________________________
whenever you did these things to the least of my brothers you did them to me

  

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Orbit_Established
Member since Oct 27th 2002
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39. "BWAAHAHAHHA!!! WE GOT A LIVE ONE Y'ALL!!!!!"
In response to Reply # 36


  

          

>you're an idiot and you are furious that i exposed ur wack
>ass opinion that u actually stole from Buster Olney who
>tweeted this weeks ago and who was also wrong & blinded by his
>baseball bias

Buster Olney uses tomatoes in his Guacamole?

Fuck you talking about nigga?

>just another gaping black hole of ignorance & arrogance from
>the king of those 2 attributes, YOU

Dude, I don't know if tomatoes are acceptable...I was basically
asking

And I can't tell the difference between lemon and lime

>mad as fuck
>
>wrong as fuck
>
>dumb as fuck
>
>as usual
>
>by definition

Are you anywhere near New York City? I'm going to arrange
for someone to give you a hug. I'm serious.

----------------------------



O_E: "Acts like an asshole and posts with imperial disdain"




"I ORBITs the solar system, listenin..."

(C)Keith Murray, "

  

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philpot
Member since Apr 01st 2007
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Wed May-22-13 07:17 PM

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42. "oh you're a new yorker"
In response to Reply # 39


  

          

thats why u would have the unmitigated gall to suggest a closing pitcher as the greatest athlete ever

michael jordan & muhammad ali deserve a good & hearty laugh at your expense for this one

________________________________________________________________
whenever you did these things to the least of my brothers you did them to me

  

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Orbit_Established
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50. "Seriously -- where can I deliver a hug? "
In response to Reply # 42


  

          


I'm being 100% serious

I'd doing it via inbox but you need some TOUCH bro

----------------------------



O_E: "Acts like an asshole and posts with imperial disdain"




"I ORBITs the solar system, listenin..."

(C)Keith Murray, "

  

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Bombastic
Charter member
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Wed May-22-13 07:03 PM

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34. "http://www.imgnook.com/0mDa5o.gif"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

http://www.imgnook.com/0mDa5o.gif

  

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3xKrazy
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43. "most dominant sportsman of all time i can ride with"
In response to Reply # 0


          

unfortunately the term 'athlete' carries a lot of weight that a pitcher/closer might not be able to hold up to

  

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Orbit_Established
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46. "No less loaded and subjective, but I feel you. n/m"
In response to Reply # 43


  

          


----------------------------



O_E: "Acts like an asshole and posts with imperial disdain"




"I ORBITs the solar system, listenin..."

(C)Keith Murray, "

  

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3xKrazy
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55. "I dunno"
In response to Reply # 46


          

it takes what you're trying to say and eliminates any rebuttals about mariano not running the 40 in 4.3

mariano's skill, dominance (when it counts) and longevity within his respective sport cannot be matched by others in XYZ sport.

  

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philpot
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61. "the problem is that ..."
In response to Reply # 55


  

          

"within his respective sport" and the part you left out (and in his specialist role) are what disqualify him from the discussion

*shrug*

sorry

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playmaker88
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67. "RE: the problem is that ..."
In response to Reply # 61


  

          

yea, next he argue that adam vinatieri is the best athlete in football.

Steady Plexin'

  

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philpot
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69. "LMAO Mark "MVP" Moseley better tho"
In response to Reply # 67


  

          

________________________________________________________________
whenever you did these things to the least of my brothers you did them to me

  

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Orbit_Established
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83. "Here's a formula. Its actually pretty good. "
In response to Reply # 55
Wed May-22-13 08:14 PM by Orbit_Established

  

          



1) Every sport is different; in some sports everybody
does the "same" thing; in some sports, tasks are divided
into discrete roles; in others, everyone does the "same"
thing but are divided into positions.

2) Divide every sport into discrete roles and positions.

3) For each position/role, name the best person ever in that role/
position (this is tad complicated for basketball; you can do
individual positions or not as everyone does the "same" thing)

4) For each position, name the 2nd best person ever in that
role/position

5) Subtract 4 from 3.

6) That will give you a distance between the greatest all-time
at a given task, and the second, which is a loose proxy for how
great the athlete is.

Mariano Rivera very well might win this, for every sport, for
all athletes, ever. Gretzky will score high. So will Roger Federer.
So will Carl Lewis. Part of the test of a measure is how well
it matches intuition. No one will laugh at you if you said Federer,
Lewis, or Gretzky was the best athlete ever. People would disagree,
but its not a laugher.

Limitations: Closers are a relatively new category, and
this measure undervalues the Bo Jackson "good across roles/sports"
types. The good news is that those athletes are very few
in number.


Its fun to think about.


----------------------------



O_E: "Acts like an asshole and posts with imperial disdain"




"I ORBITs the solar system, listenin..."

(C)Keith Murray, "

  

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Orbit_Established
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70. "Moderator request: A limit on frequent Lessonheads in OkaySports"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          


This is embarrassing

----------------------------



O_E: "Acts like an asshole and posts with imperial disdain"




"I ORBITs the solar system, listenin..."

(C)Keith Murray, "

  

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playmaker88
Member since Sep 20th 2012
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74. "RE: Moderator request: A limit on frequent Lessonheads in OkaySports"
In response to Reply # 70


  

          

so you didn't want a debate?

Steady Plexin'

  

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Orbit_Established
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76. "You don't know what a save is. "
In response to Reply # 74


  

          


: - (

----------------------------



O_E: "Acts like an asshole and posts with imperial disdain"




"I ORBITs the solar system, listenin..."

(C)Keith Murray, "

  

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playmaker88
Member since Sep 20th 2012
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Wed May-22-13 07:56 PM

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78. "RE: You don't know what a save is. "
In response to Reply # 76


  

          

lol, ok guy, you don't know what an athlete is

Steady Plexin'

  

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Orbit_Established
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79. "No, I'm serious. You don't know what a save is. "
In response to Reply # 78


  

          


You don't.

  

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playmaker88
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81. "RE: No, I'm serious. You don't know what a save is. "
In response to Reply # 79


  

          

Point out one thing i typed that says i don't. However, your argument was based on him being an athlete but you have yet to show what he does well other than throwing a ball well.

Steady Plexin'

  

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Orbit_Established
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84. "You don't know what a save is. "
In response to Reply # 81


  

          


n/m

----------------------------



O_E: "Acts like an asshole and posts with imperial disdain"




"I ORBITs the solar system, listenin..."

(C)Keith Murray, "

  

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playmaker88
Member since Sep 20th 2012
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Wed May-22-13 08:19 PM

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93. "RE: You don't know what a save is. "
In response to Reply # 84


  

          

right

Steady Plexin'

  

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Orbit_Established
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94. "You don't know what a save is"
In response to Reply # 93


  

          


----------------------------



O_E: "Acts like an asshole and posts with imperial disdain"




"I ORBITs the solar system, listenin..."

(C)Keith Murray, "

  

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playmaker88
Member since Sep 20th 2012
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Wed May-22-13 08:22 PM

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98. "RE: You don't know what a save is"
In response to Reply # 94


  

          

cool

Steady Plexin'

  

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ErnestLee
Member since Mar 03rd 2003
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Wed May-22-13 07:51 PM

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72. "lmao"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          


>
>Nah, not definitive.

---------------------------------------------------------

  

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PimpTrickGangstaClik
Member since Oct 06th 2005
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Wed May-22-13 08:01 PM

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80. "You know you're gonna have to define athlete, right?"
In response to Reply # 0


          

Best athlete means different things to different people. To people here in the real world, there's not even a plausible argument for this statement.

I'm sure you could craft whatever kind of definition you want to fit your agenda here. But one thing's for sure. He wouldn't fit any conventional definition of best athlete

_______________________________________

  

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playmaker88
Member since Sep 20th 2012
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82. "RE: You know you're gonna have to define athlete, right?"
In response to Reply # 80


  

          

He obviously doesn't know what he is talking about, he just being a fan boy.

Steady Plexin'

  

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Orbit_Established
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85. "Wait -- there's no universally understood, agreed upon definition? "
In response to Reply # 80


  

          


Y'all are joking, right?

----------------------------



O_E: "Acts like an asshole and posts with imperial disdain"




"I ORBITs the solar system, listenin..."

(C)Keith Murray, "

  

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PimpTrickGangstaClik
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86. "Nah not joking. I might be so mad I can't think straight though."
In response to Reply # 85


          

I'd love to hear your take on the qualities that determine if someone is a great athlete

_______________________________________

  

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Orbit_Established
Member since Oct 27th 2002
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87. "Athletes are guys who can beat me at Madden. "
In response to Reply # 86


  

          


Seriously.



----------------------------



O_E: "Acts like an asshole and posts with imperial disdain"




"I ORBITs the solar system, listenin..."

(C)Keith Murray, "

  

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PimpTrickGangstaClik
Member since Oct 06th 2005
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88. "k"
In response to Reply # 87


          

_______________________________________

  

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Orbit_Established
Member since Oct 27th 2002
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91. "Do you post in Okaysport often? Honest question"
In response to Reply # 88


  

          


I'm curious why this thread brought out all these
outsiders

This is interesting

Probably because it seems simple and you weren't intimidated

There's a line in this thread between Okaysports heads
and everyone else

----------------------------



O_E: "Acts like an asshole and posts with imperial disdain"




"I ORBITs the solar system, listenin..."

(C)Keith Murray, "

  

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playmaker88
Member since Sep 20th 2012
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Wed May-22-13 08:16 PM

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90. "RE: Wait -- there's no universally understood, agreed upon definition? "
In response to Reply # 85


  

          

I think the difference in my argument and yours is I'm arguing his athletic ability based on what he does physically, which is mostly pitching a baseball for short periods of time and your argument seems to be based on the numeric values of what he does well. In my eyes a baseball player's athletic ability should be definable under the '5 Tools,' and to me, Rivera only has shown 1 of 5.

Steady Plexin'

  

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Orbit_Established
Member since Oct 27th 2002
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92. "I already told you: "defeat OE at Madden" is the objective defintion"
In response to Reply # 90


  

          


Everybody already knows that

That's why everyone else is talking about Guacamole and pussy.

----------------------------



O_E: "Acts like an asshole and posts with imperial disdain"




"I ORBITs the solar system, listenin..."

(C)Keith Murray, "

  

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playmaker88
Member since Sep 20th 2012
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Wed May-22-13 08:21 PM

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96. "RE: I already told you: "defeat OE at Madden" is the objective defintion"
In response to Reply # 92


  

          

what? when have we talked about madden?

Steady Plexin'

  

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Orbit_Established
Member since Oct 27th 2002
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99. "You didn't know Mariano beat me at Madden? Fuck you been? "
In response to Reply # 96


  

          


He ran with San Diego

Turned Phillip Rivers into a god

I ran with the Giants, dunno what kind
of slide protection and hot reads he was
using but I was getting burned

----------------------------



O_E: "Acts like an asshole and posts with imperial disdain"




"I ORBITs the solar system, listenin..."

(C)Keith Murray, "

  

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playmaker88
Member since Sep 20th 2012
169 posts
Wed May-22-13 08:30 PM

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101. "RE: You didn't know Mariano beat me at Madden? Fuck you been? "
In response to Reply # 99


  

          

lol, was this recently? I don't be on here all that much and didn't lurk all that long before signing up

Steady Plexin'

  

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Orbit_Established
Member since Oct 27th 2002
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Wed May-22-13 08:36 PM

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102. "Yeah, so I used to play his son on Madden online. It was in GD"
In response to Reply # 101
Wed May-22-13 08:38 PM by Orbit_Established

  

          

There was GD post about it last winter

Me and Mariano's son have a mutual friend

So we're playing one day

One day his son is like "Yo, Orbit, I have a
surprise for you"

I'm like "Umm this is a Madden relationship, bro,
don't tell me anything I don't need to hear"

We had the headphones on

I hear a:

"Helllo, this Mariano, you beat my son, you face me"


Of course I thought it was a joke

so I don't say anything

He keeps talking

"So juwanna play me or what, mang"

I'm like...ugh...I figure its a joke, but am like

"Cool"

We start a game, me and whoever the fuck this is

We start playing and WHOOPING MY ASS from JUMP

All kinds of defensive blitz packages

Like I said: Phillip Rivers is Joe Montana Brady 5.0

Justin Tuck getting messed up, no pass rush

I'm lost man...I'm usually pretty good

Whoever I was playing is better than his son

FUCKS ME UP REAL BAD

no lie

few months later, MARIANO is quoted somewhere (can't find the
article!) as saying that he likes to play Madden with
his son.


I'm like WTF?!?!?!??!??!?!?


I decided right then: Mariano Rivera is the best athlete
ever. Period, end of discussion.

I gave more detail in the GD post....it was never archived
because some weird thing happened...there was a bad breakup
and the couple was beefing in my post, dude posted some real
out of line shit....damn shame

Anyway, that's the gist of the story

----------------------------



O_E: "Acts like an asshole and posts with imperial disdain"




"I ORBITs the solar system, listenin..."

(C)Keith Murray, "

  

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playmaker88
Member since Sep 20th 2012
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Wed May-22-13 08:41 PM

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103. "RE: Yeah, so I used to play his son on Madden online. It was in GD"
In response to Reply # 102


  

          

ok, i get your point now lol, no grudge match?

Steady Plexin'

  

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Orbit_Established
Member since Oct 27th 2002
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104. "I had to stop playing...my YMCA basketball league games interfered"
In response to Reply # 103
Wed May-22-13 08:46 PM by Orbit_Established

  

          

>ok, i get your point now lol, no grudge match?

I used to play in the mornings but now I have a league
that I have to prepare for

Stretching, and preparing the offensive sets takes time,
man

Dipped right into my Madden time! Sucks

----------------------------



O_E: "Acts like an asshole and posts with imperial disdain"




"I ORBITs the solar system, listenin..."

(C)Keith Murray, "

  

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playmaker88
Member since Sep 20th 2012
169 posts
Wed May-22-13 08:51 PM

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106. "RE: I had to stop playing...my YMCA basketball league games interfered"
In response to Reply # 104


  

          

yea i quit madden years ago because it took to much to be great at it. I can still rock flunkies but video games in general take as much dedication as real world activities now.

Steady Plexin'

  

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philpot
Member since Apr 01st 2007
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Wed May-22-13 09:25 PM

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107. "real shit"
In response to Reply # 106


  

          

>video games in
>general take as much dedication as real world activities now.

________________________________________________________________
whenever you did these things to the least of my brothers you did them to me

  

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Orbit_Established
Member since Oct 27th 2002
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127. "Being mad in posts does too, bro. "
In response to Reply # 107


  

          

>>video games in
>>general take as much dedication as real world activities
>now.

I estimate you spent about a full days' worth of energy


----------------------------



O_E: "Acts like an asshole and posts with imperial disdain"




"I ORBITs the solar system, listenin..."

(C)Keith Murray, "

  

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The Mac
Member since Feb 11th 2008
1493 posts
Fri May-24-13 09:31 AM

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142. "LMAO "
In response to Reply # 127


          

OE just killed ya'll

Cause I'm doing better now, don't mean I never lost shit/ I was married to a state of mind and I divorced it -- Black Thought

  

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cgonz00cc
Member since Aug 01st 2002
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89. "jesus lmao"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

  

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Orbit_Established
Member since Oct 27th 2002
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Wed May-22-13 08:29 PM

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100. "I learned what 'cotija' is and taught 2 white guys about 'fixies' "
In response to Reply # 89
Wed May-22-13 08:31 PM by Orbit_Established

  

          


Not only one of the better posts of 2013. Its one of
my prouder moments, period.


----------------------------



O_E: "Acts like an asshole and posts with imperial disdain"




"I ORBITs the solar system, listenin..."

(C)Keith Murray, "

  

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cgonz00cc
Member since Aug 01st 2002
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132. "if i was you id probably feel the same way lol"
In response to Reply # 100


  

          

  

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soulfunk
Charter member
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Wed May-22-13 08:21 PM

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95. "Eff it, OE is my favorite poster on the boards. "
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

Perfect combination of mad making, comedy, and actual knowledge. I don't even care that this sounds like bro love.

  

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playmaker88
Member since Sep 20th 2012
169 posts
Wed May-22-13 08:22 PM

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97. "RE: Eff it, OE is my favorite poster on the boards. "
In response to Reply # 95


  

          

it seems like he the one mad

Steady Plexin'

  

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electricflower
Member since Sep 18th 2003
1721 posts
Wed May-22-13 08:51 PM

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105. "i think im the best athlete i know in person "
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

by scoring 2300 in fruit ninja,
the agility and speed in my thumb movements,
my great anticipation and quick reflexes to hit back to back to back to back to back combos in multiple angles up and down the screen is an athletic feat that puts me above everyone else's level
no one can fuck with me in slicing during fruit frenzy barely leaving one fruit unsliced

Ballgame!

numbers look crooked like king kong shook it - jdilla

  

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J_Stew
Member since Jul 06th 2002
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Wed May-22-13 09:36 PM

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108. "A human being cant be the best "athlete" if running isn't involved"
In response to Reply # 0


          

Or at least quickness a la a great boxer, wrestler or MMA fighter

www.a-resilient-body.com

  

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Deebot
Member since Oct 21st 2004
26762 posts
Wed May-22-13 09:45 PM

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111. "Roger Federer"
In response to Reply # 0


          

  

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KosherSam
Member since Mar 18th 2004
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Wed May-22-13 11:13 PM

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113. "If being the best at your job, relative to your peers, is the qualificat..."
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

it's Wayne Gretzky.

*Jews you*

"this is okp tho, reading is completely optional" (c) desus

Proceed with caution. I am overtly racist.

<-- In Pigpen we trust

  

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Orbit_Established
Member since Oct 27th 2002
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115. "Gretzky definitely is up there. But so is Mariano. n/m"
In response to Reply # 113


  

          

>it's Wayne Gretzky.


----------------------------



O_E: "Acts like an asshole and posts with imperial disdain"




"I ORBITs the solar system, listenin..."

(C)Keith Murray, "

  

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KosherSam
Member since Mar 18th 2004
70132 posts
Thu May-23-13 12:46 AM

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122. "Gretzkty has more *assists* than any player in NHL history has *points*"
In response to Reply # 115


  

          

so if Gretzky never scored a single goal in his entire career, he'd still be the all-time leader in points scored.

He's the only player in history to score 200 points in a season, and he did it 4 years in a row.

he scored 92 goals in an 80 game season. 160 assists in another. 9 time MVP, 10 time scoring champ.

*Jews you*

"this is okp tho, reading is completely optional" (c) desus

Proceed with caution. I am overtly racist.

<-- In Pigpen we trust

  

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ConcreteCharlie
Member since Nov 21st 2002
71387 posts
Thu May-23-13 12:57 AM

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125. "yeah but the staggering totals speak more to longevity/team success"
In response to Reply # 122


  

          

Let's not overlook how staggeringly stacked Edmonton was. They were so fucking loaded that they managed to win another Cup without Gretzky and basically stock his next team with has-beens that were good enough to get them to the Final.

If we are going to do this wow, look at numbers thing, let's talk some more about Wilt Chamberlain in here. His adjusted numbers stack up just as well as Gretzky's. He is a statistician's wet dream and, incidentally, a much better athlete than probably any hockey player in history.

And you will know MY JACKET IS GOLD when I lay my vengeance upon thee.

  

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ConcreteCharlie
Member since Nov 21st 2002
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Wed May-22-13 11:59 PM

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121. "give lemieux wayne's health and he blows everyone away"
In response to Reply # 113
Thu May-23-13 12:11 AM by ConcreteCharlie

  

          

basically a two point per game player and did more damage in lower scoring seasons leaguewide, too. even gretzky would admit lemieux was more talented. what didn't lemieux achieve? it was just a matter of staying healthier, really, if not for his bad back, hodgkins, etc, he would have undoubtedly set all sorts of records. he's probably the best player ever on the power play, too (outscored gretzky with the extra man despite being about 500 games down for their careers).

orr is a little rougher comparison because of position, but the same thing is true.

you also have gordie howe, who holds his own nicely against wayne when numbers are adjusted for era (he is the all time leader in adjusted goals by a fairly wide margin, second to wayne for overall points).

this is not saying gretzky is not the best ever, only that it's not an enormous gap, at least not as big as the statistical totals would suggest.

And you will know MY JACKET IS GOLD when I lay my vengeance upon thee.

  

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KosherSam
Member since Mar 18th 2004
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Thu May-23-13 12:48 AM

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123. "i love mario, but he DIDN'T stay healthy"
In response to Reply # 121


  

          

part of GOAT status is being able to play long enough to earn it without any woulda/shoulda/coulda arguments.

*Jews you*

"this is okp tho, reading is completely optional" (c) desus

Proceed with caution. I am overtly racist.

<-- In Pigpen we trust

  

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ConcreteCharlie
Member since Nov 21st 2002
71387 posts
Thu May-23-13 12:51 AM

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124. "but they were genetic injuries, not acquired ones"
In response to Reply # 123


  

          

and when you throw in guys like howe and orr, you're talking about more complete players than either guy who also scored a fuckload.

put it this way, to me, the drop between rivera and the next best closer is bigger than the drop between gretzky and lemieux.

And you will know MY JACKET IS GOLD when I lay my vengeance upon thee.

  

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Orbit_Established
Member since Oct 27th 2002
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Thu May-23-13 06:45 AM

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126. "Agreed...I remember you broke down Lemieux/Gretzky on here"
In response to Reply # 124
Thu May-23-13 06:45 AM by Orbit_Established

  

          

>and when you throw in guys like howe and orr, you're talking
>about more complete players than either guy who also scored a
>fuckload.
>
>put it this way, to me, the drop between rivera and the next
>best closer is bigger than the drop between gretzky and
>lemieux.

Yes

Anybody who stat drops in that debate didn't watch the
games

You had to watch the games

----------------------------



O_E: "Acts like an asshole and posts with imperial disdain"




"I ORBITs the solar system, listenin..."

(C)Keith Murray, "

  

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ConcreteCharlie
Member since Nov 21st 2002
71387 posts
Thu May-23-13 03:01 PM

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141. "to me it's akin to a magic/jordan debate but with some role reversals"
In response to Reply # 126


  

          

in terms of who wins i think gretzky=jordan and mario is closer to magic, but style wise it was the other way around. gretzky was the guy with the imagination and the superior playmaking ability, mario was the more athletic player with more finishing skills. it's a rough comparison like i said, but it's a similar situation in the end where you had two guys that on five nights, one would be better for three, one would be better for two and it was really that close.

And you will know MY JACKET IS GOLD when I lay my vengeance upon thee.

  

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Kajun
Member since Jan 11th 2008
1007 posts
Thu May-23-13 12:06 PM

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133. "Rivera's legacy is so interesting to me."
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

Because he is so clearly the best closer of all time, but also had the great fortune of playing for the Yankees, the premier franchise and biggest spender in the sport, for his ENTIRE career.

Now of course he was an integral part of their success, but replace him with Hoffman and they still win some chips. Hell just switch those guys teams from the start and this conversation plays out so differently. Not that Hoffman was his equal, but suddenly he has the chips and Rivera likely doesn't, and certainly doesn't have the staggering playoff resume.

Such is the life of a closer. Opportunity is everything, and Rivera and the Yankees was absolute opportunity perfection.


As great as he is, and I marvel at his career, his legacy is so boosted by his fortune. Had he played even half of his career with a middling team this post likely doesn't get conceived.

  

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Orbit_Established
Member since Oct 27th 2002
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Thu May-23-13 12:56 PM

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135. "That's the thing about closers, though. "
In response to Reply # 133


  

          

>Because he is so clearly the best closer of all time, but
>also had the great fortune of playing for the Yankees, the
>premier franchise and biggest spender in the sport, for his
>ENTIRE career.

Statistically you can isolate their performances.

He doesn't benefit from a powerful offense and by,
definition, he doesn't get the ball unless the game
is close.

----------------------------



O_E: "Acts like an asshole and posts with imperial disdain"




"I ORBITs the solar system, listenin..."

(C)Keith Murray, "

  

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cgonz00cc
Member since Aug 01st 2002
35246 posts
Thu May-23-13 01:14 PM

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137. "yeah but having discussed this with you before..."
In response to Reply # 135


  

          

i know, that *you* know, that there are a number of advanced defensive statistics that can be applied to get at the truth of each appearance

not that they wouldnt bear out your thesis, but nonetheless there is more info to be gleaned

  

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Orbit_Established
Member since Oct 27th 2002
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Thu May-23-13 01:21 PM

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138. "Oh yeah, definitely. I'm too lazy to look right now"
In response to Reply # 137


  

          

>i know, that *you* know, that there are a number of advanced
>defensive statistics that can be applied to get at the truth
>of each appearance
>
>not that they wouldnt bear out your thesis, but nonetheless
>there is more info to be gleaned

I'm assuming that the advanced state people love Mariano,
which is why he's adored by both the old traditionalists
and the new blood

Either way, the "he has great run support" argument I keep
hearing in here is irrelevant, because he's a closer, and
by definition he only pitches when he doesn't have much of
a lead (or is behind)

----------------------------



O_E: "Acts like an asshole and posts with imperial disdain"




"I ORBITs the solar system, listenin..."

(C)Keith Murray, "

  

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Kajun
Member since Jan 11th 2008
1007 posts
Thu May-23-13 01:36 PM

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139. "My post wasn't about run support, or his team's offense."
In response to Reply # 138


  

          

For the record.

Its more about the team in general. We don't talk about the great closers that played on mediocre or bad teams. Hoffman is my pick as #2 (or 3 at worst) all time, and his resume is incredible, but really who seems to care? He didn't win shit. Certainly not his fault, but still.

Rivera's legacy is so tied to the Yankees postseason frequency and success. He got prove every year why he is the best on the biggest stage due to his team's overall quality. His greatness was allowed to permeate in a way that is almost unlike anything else in sports, due to its complete reliance on team success. If his team sucked, his greatness is muted to some degree. Closers, man.

Without those playoff appearances, he's still the best but MUCH less talked about. And we almost certainly don't talk about him as the greatest athlete of all time.

I just find it remarkable how lucky the pairing really has been for both Rivera and the Yanks.

  

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Orbit_Established
Member since Oct 27th 2002
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Thu May-23-13 01:59 PM

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140. "I see your point. Its a good one. "
In response to Reply # 139
Thu May-23-13 02:09 PM by Orbit_Established

  

          

>I just find it remarkable how lucky the pairing really has
>been for both Rivera and the Yanks.

But such is the way with team sports.

Its not easy to know when a players' greatness
ends and the team begins, and vice versa

But with Mariano, we can tease it apart because its
the nature of his dominance, not only the number of
saves.

Its not the postseason saves, its the postseason ERA.

And its the fact that he's on a good team which makes
it so great: WHEN THE GAME IS IN THE BALANCE, in the
highest stakes games, he is at his best.

So yeah -

Its not just that he was a great closer, its HOW:

- The excellence in high pressure situations

- The longevity (unparalleled...this dude is balling RIGHT
TODAY after snapping his ACHILLES IN HIS 40s)

- ONE PITCH. That no one, ever, has been able to duplicate.

Its pretty fucking incredible. I know you didn't say otherwise,
and I respect your point.



----------------------------



O_E: "Acts like an asshole and posts with imperial disdain"




"I ORBITs the solar system, listenin..."

(C)Keith Murray, "

  

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Walleye
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15521 posts
Fri May-24-13 10:10 AM

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143. "There aren't a lot of guys who've been asked to duplicate it"
In response to Reply # 140


          

>- ONE PITCH. That no one, ever, has been able to duplicate.

There are a bunch of single pitches possessed by particular pitchers that I think are better than his cutter. Those guys just don't have the liberty of throwing it fifteen times and then walking off the mound.

To pick one, go with Randy Johnson's slider. He ended up with a with a weird career trajectory due to not really knowing where the plate was until he was almost 30. But he averaged about 240 innings a year for a decade and a half, and they were good innings. So I'm comfortable speculating that he was durable enough to, in a world where his role was totally different, throw that slider 1000-1200 times a season. And I bet those would have been 80 really good innings every year.

Sooooo, I wont get over the role thing. Rivera is great, but he just doesn't work enough to earn what you're doing here.

______________________________

"Walleye, a lot of things are going to go wrong in your life that technically aren't your fault. Always remember that this doesn't make you any less of an idiot"

--Walleye's Dad

  

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Orbit_Established
Member since Oct 27th 2002
52934 posts
Fri May-24-13 03:24 PM

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147. "I'm curious about your views on Guacamole"
In response to Reply # 143


  

          


So you're basically saying this:

- the rareness of his circumstances >>> the rareness of
his talent/accomplishments

Is that what you're saying?

----------------------------



O_E: "Acts like an asshole and posts with imperial disdain"




"I ORBITs the solar system, listenin..."

(C)Keith Murray, "

  

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StirsDsoul
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27168 posts
Fri May-24-13 01:26 PM

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144. "Y'all realize Mariano Duncan better..."
In response to Reply # 0
Fri May-24-13 01:39 PM by StirsDsoul

  

          


"We play toodei....we WIN toodei....das it..."

  

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Guinness
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Fri May-24-13 01:39 PM

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145. "better duncan: mariano or donuts?"
In response to Reply # 144


  

          

  

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Orbit_Established
Member since Oct 27th 2002
52934 posts
Fri May-24-13 03:23 PM

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146. "Put CILANTRO and GARLIC SALT IN MY GUAC!!!!"
In response to Reply # 0
Fri May-24-13 03:24 PM by Orbit_Established

  

          


Cilantro paste...didn't know what else to get

Copped some garlic salt too

Chick on my couch eating it RIGHT NOW

Yes nigga, at 4pm on Friday

I'll let you know guys know

Much appreciated


----------------------------



O_E: "Acts like an asshole and posts with imperial disdain"




"I ORBITs the solar system, listenin..."

(C)Keith Murray, "

  

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nighttripper
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17453 posts
Fri May-24-13 03:54 PM

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150. "http://www.countryliving.com/cm/countryliving/images/cilantro-de.jpg"
In response to Reply # 146


  

          

http://www.countryliving.com/cm/countryliving/images/cilantro-de.jpg

it's in the veggie section, btw

  

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guru0509
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Fri May-24-13 03:58 PM

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151. "ive never tried cilantro paste..i wonder what that taste like"
In response to Reply # 146


  

          

but yea, fresh raw cilantro is essential for guac.


>Cilantro paste...didn't know what else to get
>
>Copped some garlic salt too
>
>Chick on my couch eating it RIGHT NOW
>
>Yes nigga, at 4pm on Friday
>
>I'll let you know guys know
>
>Much appreciated
>
>
>----------------------------
>
>
>
>O_E: "Acts like an asshole and posts with imperial disdain"
>
>
>
>
>"I ORBITs the solar system, listenin..."
>
>(C)Keith Murray, "

-------------------
I wanna go to where the martyrs went
the brown figures on the walls of my apart-a-ment...

  

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RobOne4
Member since Jun 06th 2003
56697 posts
Fri May-24-13 10:42 PM

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154. "i dont know what cilantro paste is or what it would be used for"
In response to Reply # 146


  

          

November 8th, 2005 The greatest night in the history of GD!

  

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hip bopper
Member since Jun 22nd 2003
7385 posts
Fri May-24-13 09:34 PM

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152. "Yeah he's a far better athlete than Mayweather!!! "
In response to Reply # 0


          

  

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3xKrazy
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21582 posts
Tue May-28-13 11:04 PM

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155. "SUCK IT"
In response to Reply # 0


          

!!!!!!!!!!!

  

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