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Subject: "Feel's new memoir throws the book at kobe" Previous topic | Next topic
Geah
Member since Feb 16th 2007
48407 posts
Thu May-16-13 09:31 AM

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"Feel's new memoir throws the book at kobe"


          

link-http://www.latimes.com/sports/basketball/nba/lakers/la-sp-phil-jackson-kobe-20130516,0,4853067.story

colin powell

Phil Jackson never liked to compare Kobe Bryant to Michael Jordan. Believe me, I tried everything.

Sometimes I'd ask him after random Lakers practices or before games against Charlotte, the team Jordan owned. Or after games in Chicago, where nostalgia hopefully would add to the mix.

There would be a little nugget here, a tiny nibble there, but nothing that mattered.

It's coming out now, though, in Jackson's 339-page memoir co-written with Hugh Delehanty and available Tuesday: "Eleven Rings: The Soul of Success."

MJ vs. Kobe? Here it is from the man who would know best.

"Michael was more charismatic and gregarious than Kobe. He loved hanging out with his teammates and security guards, playing cards, smoking cigars, and joking around," Jackson said in the book, which was obtained in advance by The Times.

"Kobe is different. He was reserved as a teenager, in part because he was younger than the other players and hadn't developed strong social skills in college. When Kobe first joined the Lakers, he avoided fraternizing with his teammates. But his inclination to keep to himself shifted as he grew older. Increasingly, Kobe put more energy into getting to know the other players, especially when the team was on the road."

While Jackson coached, he often jabbed at Bryant's seemingly annual appearance on the NBA's All-Defensive team. Now we know why.

"No question, Michael was a tougher, more intimidating defender. He could break through virtually any screen and shut down almost any player with his intense, laser-focused style of defense," said Jackson, who coached Jordan to six championships and Bryant to five.

"Kobe has learned a lot from studying Michael's tricks, and we often used him as our secret weapon on defense when we needed to turn the direction of a game. In general, Kobe tends to rely more heavily on his flexibility and craftiness, but he takes a lot of gambles on defense and sometimes pays the price."

What about the part of the game where Bryant captivated fans by scoring 81 points against Toronto and 62 in three quarters against Dallas?

Jackson noted the "pronounced" difference in their accuracy, Jordan shooting almost 50% — an "extraordinary figure" — while Bryant had been at 45%.

"Michael was more likely to break through his attackers with power and strength, while Kobe often tries to finesse his way through mass pileups," Jackson wrote. "Michael was stronger, with bigger shoulders and a sturdier frame. He also had large hands that allowed him to control the ball better and make subtle fakes.

"Jordan was also more naturally inclined to let the game come to him and not overplay his hand, whereas Kobe tends to force the action, especially when the game isn't going his way. When his shot is off, Kobe will pound away relentlessly until his luck turns. Michael, on the other hand, would shift his attention to defense or passing or setting screens to help the team win the game."

Among other disclosures in "Eleven Rings:"

• Jackson signed off on Lakers' drafting Andrew Bynum in 2005 but did not like his running gait, which he thought could lead to knee problems.

•Jackson became more interested in Zen after meeting a practicing construction worker who helped build his lakeside Montana home in the late 1970s.

• Here's how Jackson handled Jordan's unexpected appearance at his Bulls office in March 1995 after more than 1½ years away from the game to pursue baseball. "Well," Jackson said dryly after Jordan asked to return to the team, "I think we've got a uniform here that might fit you."

Much of the book, though, is about Bryant. How could it not be? Bryant has often been a polarizing figure in his 17-year career.

Jackson even talked about how the sexual-assault charges levied against Bryant in 2003 temporarily changed his outlook on the perennial All-Star.
It "cracked open an old wound" because Jackson's daughter was the victim of an assault while on a date with an athlete in college.

"Brooke expected me to get angry and make her feel protected. Instead I suppressed my rage — as I'd been conditioned to do during childhood by my parents … it left her feeling alone and unsupported. (In the end, after filing a report with the police, Brooke chose not to press charges.)

"The Kobe incident triggered all my unprocessed anger and tainted my perception of him. ... It distorted my view of Kobe throughout the 2003-04 season. No matter what I did to extinguish it, the anger kept smoldering in the background."


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Charges were dropped against Bryant in 2004, a few months after the Lakers lost to Detroit in the NBA Finals.

The coach-player relationship eventually improved to the point that Jackson defended Bryant after his infamous trade demand in 2007. Bryant was irritated after three languid seasons and wanted to continue his championship pursuits elsewhere.

"No question, losing Kobe would be a blow to the organization and to me personally," Jackson wrote of that summer.

Still, though, Jackson probed Bryant's leadership deficiencies compared to Jordan.

"One of the biggest differences between the two stars from my perspective was Michael's superior skills as a leader," Jackson said. "Though at times he could be hard on his teammates, Michael was masterful at controlling the emotional climate of the team with the power of his presence. Kobe had a long way to go before he could make that claim. He talked a good game, but he'd yet to experience the cold truth of leadership in his bones, as Michael had."

Bryant gradually evolved during the 2008-09 championship season, when the Lakers successfully retooled with a more finessed look with Pau Gasol instead of the brute force of the Shaquille O'Neal teams.

If Bryant talked to teammates in his earlier Lakers years, it was usually, "Give me the damn ball," Jackson wrote. "But then Kobe started to shift. He embraced the team and his teammates, calling them up when we were on the road and inviting them out to dinner. It was as if the other players were now his partners, not his personal spear-carriers."

Jackson recalled hugging Bryant after the championship-clinching victory in Orlando.

"This was our moment of triumph, a moment of total reconciliation that had been seven years long in coming," Jackson said. "The look of pride and joy in Kobe's eyes made all the pain we'd endured in our journey together worth it."

Jackson called the Lakers' Game 7 victory over Boston in the 2010 Finals the most satisfying of his career, particularly after they were trounced by the Celtics two years earlier in the Finals.

The memoir ended with Dallas' numbing sweep of the Lakers in the 2011 Western Conference semifinals. Jackson had told the team two weeks earlier that he was battling prostate cancer. He became emotional while sharing it with players and wondered if it would affect them negatively because he showed such a vulnerable side.

The Lakers were able to close out their first-round series against New Orleans but were no match for Dallas.

"I'd never had one of my teams fall apart in such a strange and spooky way," he wrote.

It turned out to be Jackson's final season.

@geahuwine

  

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Topic Outline
Subject Author Message Date ID
Weird that he let the assault on his own daughter by an athlete
May 16th 2013
1
If he's willing to dish dirt like this
May 16th 2013
2
oddly, Phil likes attention more than Mike or Kobe ever did.
May 16th 2013
3
Damn Phil be exploiting the shit outta Kobe to rake the money in
May 16th 2013
4
Damn Kobe exploiting the shit out of Feel to win in the playoffs
May 16th 2013
9
      yes
May 16th 2013
11
           oh yeah, that Utah WCF sweep L before Kobe became a starter, my bad
May 16th 2013
12
                Even I forgot about that one...
May 16th 2013
13
                     I thought it was second round when I first asked but then remembered
May 16th 2013
14
                          Yeaaaahhhhhhhhh....
May 16th 2013
18
You have to be a lifelong resident of Kobestan to see any hate here
May 16th 2013
5
^^^ yep. all he did was give reasons why mike was better. nothing new
May 16th 2013
8
yup
May 18th 2013
52
None of this is surprising or new, really.
May 16th 2013
6
All looks pretty reasonable to me
May 16th 2013
7
From what it sounds like...
May 16th 2013
10
nothing earth-shattering that we didn't already know other than the...
May 16th 2013
15
Where Kira at?
May 16th 2013
16
the midwest perhaps:
May 17th 2013
25
I'm not sure this is throwing the book at kobe. we all know this nm
May 16th 2013
17
They titled that shit to get hits
May 16th 2013
19
So Pheel pretty much once and for all squashed the comparisons
May 17th 2013
20
actually Phil already said Kobe is more skilled and a better shooter
May 17th 2013
21
HE WAS BERCERK
May 17th 2013
22
Again, MJ stans are the only ones who compare at this point.
May 17th 2013
24
being an mj stan isn't a thing. he's michael fucking jordan.
May 17th 2013
35
If you're too dense to get my point, then I dunno what to tell you.
May 17th 2013
37
      well other than your point being a lie (it's been 2 years AT MOST)
May 17th 2013
39
           REALLY? A lie?
May 17th 2013
41
                of course 5 years is a damn lie, why are you acting like it isn't?
May 18th 2013
50
                     and lol at scrolling down to see kira and kobe making my point for me
May 18th 2013
51
                     lulz...you're using Kira and LB to make your point? Failure.
May 18th 2013
55
                          what they don't count? you talking about stans but not your stans?
May 18th 2013
57
nope this is Feel answering a question, has nothing to do w/oks
May 17th 2013
40
Yeah, how horrible to chase championships.
May 17th 2013
42
MJ Stans bother unprompted? But agreed that they feed trolls
May 17th 2013
44
Jordan was 6-0 in the finals so the comparisons were never there
May 17th 2013
29
Ha. Yeah Kobe join the long list of losers not better than MJ
May 17th 2013
23
NOPE! GOAT better than Jordan
May 17th 2013
26
I don't even think you believe this shit....
May 17th 2013
27
Agree with the sentiment but a couple parts are just silly
May 17th 2013
28
LOL @ Philly=Midwest or Kobe>MJ as opinions rather than just dumb/wrong
May 17th 2013
30
Kobe>MJ is a fact
May 17th 2013
31
      stalked by your own stupidity, much like the 25 others who laughed at u
May 17th 2013
32
      Nope you said it.
May 17th 2013
33
           too dumb to carry on an actual dialogue with, I'mma just leave this here
May 17th 2013
34
                I never said Philly wasn't on the east coast you dumbass.
May 17th 2013
36
                     oh I read it, story doesn't really check out but it was worth a shot
May 17th 2013
38
      http://tinyurl.com/d3tj7ss
May 17th 2013
43
this can't be real
May 18th 2013
53
I HEARD MAFUCKAS SAYIN SHAQ MADE KOBE
May 18th 2013
54
you are a fucking idiot.
May 18th 2013
56
      NOPE! It's the truth.
May 18th 2013
59
Bean tweets back..
May 18th 2013
45
Kobe salty
May 18th 2013
46
LOL, still pretending 9 years of Prime Shaq to start was a cross to bear
May 18th 2013
47
hes really digging a deeper hole with that comment..
May 18th 2013
48
      he's cool including those Shaq rings when he wants to tout the total
May 18th 2013
49
Jordan did play with Scottie
May 18th 2013
58
Scottie played with Jordan you mean
May 18th 2013
60
lmao wow, how fucking pathetic will this guy be in retirement?
May 18th 2013
61
Kobe wouldn't be that deep without Shaq and that is a fact
May 19th 2013
62

T Reynolds
Member since Apr 16th 2007
42760 posts
Thu May-16-13 09:41 AM

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1. "Weird that he let the assault on his own daughter by an athlete"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

affect his view of Kobe.

Like instead of dealing with that situation head on he deflected it onto his player

Didn't expect that

Also I had always thought the Phil Jackson high chair was for his back, he probably didn't want to say it was prostate related

  

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Numba_33
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19335 posts
Thu May-16-13 09:42 AM

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2. "If he's willing to dish dirt like this"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

it looks as if it's truly a wrap for him coaching again. Can't see him coming back and earning the trust from players if he's willing to sell and profit off details like this to the public. Would have been interesting to see what kind of a mess this would brew up if the Lakers and Kobe were active in the playoffs while this book came out. Had no idea he was dealing with cancer though, I thought he only had back issues.

  

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Tiger Woods
Member since Feb 15th 2004
18388 posts
Thu May-16-13 10:12 AM

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3. "oddly, Phil likes attention more than Mike or Kobe ever did."
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

  

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LBs Finest
Member since Sep 28th 2005
19846 posts
Thu May-16-13 01:05 PM

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4. "Damn Phil be exploiting the shit outta Kobe to rake the money in"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

_________________________

  

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Bombastic
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Thu May-16-13 01:33 PM

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9. "Damn Kobe exploiting the shit out of Feel to win in the playoffs"
In response to Reply # 4


  

          

has he been out of the second round without Feel?

  

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LBs Finest
Member since Sep 28th 2005
19846 posts
Thu May-16-13 01:56 PM

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11. "yes"
In response to Reply # 9


  

          

_________________________

  

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Bombastic
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Thu May-16-13 02:18 PM

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12. "oh yeah, that Utah WCF sweep L before Kobe became a starter, my bad"
In response to Reply # 11


  

          

  

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wallysmith
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Thu May-16-13 02:26 PM

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13. "Even I forgot about that one..."
In response to Reply # 12


  

          

I was scratching my head for a minute

  

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Bombastic
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Thu May-16-13 02:26 PM

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14. "I thought it was second round when I first asked but then remembered"
In response to Reply # 13


  

          

it was two years in a row.

  

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wallysmith
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Thu May-16-13 03:03 PM

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18. "Yeaaaahhhhhhhhh...."
In response to Reply # 14


  

          

...least we got 1 game out the 9 though

  

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AnonymousCoward
Member since Sep 17th 2002
15394 posts
Thu May-16-13 01:16 PM

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5. "You have to be a lifelong resident of Kobestan to see any hate here"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

http://clydefrazierapproves.com/
http://stylepoints.tumblr.com/

"Like 4 out of 5 things you say on OKP offend me." -FireBrand

  

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the_time_is_when_god...lounge
Member since Nov 19th 2012
5495 posts
Thu May-16-13 01:25 PM

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8. "^^^ yep. all he did was give reasons why mike was better. nothing new"
In response to Reply # 5


  

          

--------
Twitter: _TheloniousFunk
Instagram: thelonious_funk_

  

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philpot
Member since Apr 01st 2007
21673 posts
Sat May-18-13 06:35 AM

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52. "yup"
In response to Reply # 5


  

          

or have the inability to actually read

________________________________________________________________
whenever you did these things to the least of my brothers you did them to me

  

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Ryan M
Member since Oct 21st 2002
43745 posts
Thu May-16-13 01:19 PM

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6. "None of this is surprising or new, really."
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

------------------------------

17x NBA Champions

  

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LA2Philly
Member since Oct 18th 2004
41249 posts
Thu May-16-13 01:23 PM

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7. "All looks pretty reasonable to me"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

---------------------------------
<--The drought is over

"have fun reveling in your pettiness tho" (C) Dula summing up 98% of OKS

"I didnt finish a damn thing...matter of fact I jerked off after she left."
-Kobe speaking to investigators

L D E A

  

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wallysmith
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Thu May-16-13 01:45 PM

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10. "From what it sounds like... "
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

it seems like Phil considers Jordan the consummate professional (and better player) while he considers Kobe almost like the prodigal son that came back into the fold.

Like, he'd rather coach Jordan but he's grown closer to Kobe.

Pretty interesting all around though, makes me want to check the book out.

  

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ThaTruth
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Thu May-16-13 02:31 PM

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15. "nothing earth-shattering that we didn't already know other than the..."
In response to Reply # 0


          

part about Phil's daughter

________________________________________
"Take the surprise out your voice Shaq."-The REAL CP3
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v2H5K-BUMS0

  

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AlBundy
Member since May 27th 2002
9621 posts
Thu May-16-13 02:49 PM

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16. "Where Kira at?"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

MJ better.

-------------------------
“The other dude after me didn’t help my case. It was just like…crazy nigga factory going on.”
Dre makes no apologies for his own eccentricities. “I was young, and searching, trying to find myself,” he says. “Never did.”-- Andre B

  

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Bombastic
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25. "the midwest perhaps:"
In response to Reply # 16


  

          

http://board.okayplayer.com/okp.php?az=show_topic&forum=4&topic_id=11973714&mesg_id=11973714&listing_type=search#11973774

  

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El_essence
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Thu May-16-13 03:01 PM

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17. "I'm not sure this is throwing the book at kobe. we all know this nm"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

.

  

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Geah
Member since Feb 16th 2007
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Thu May-16-13 03:28 PM

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19. "They titled that shit to get hits"
In response to Reply # 17


          

@geahuwine

  

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vee-lover
Member since Jul 30th 2007
20388 posts
Fri May-17-13 11:24 AM

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20. "So Pheel pretty much once and for all squashed the comparisons"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

btw MJ and Bean...

The disparities in their FG% is why Kobe could never be regarded as a better perimeter scorer than MJ...

Feel in his own subtle yet etherous way admitted Bean isn't better than Jordan in any aspect of the game.

1.) MJ













2.)Bean

grassrootsphilosopher

  

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LBs Finest
Member since Sep 28th 2005
19846 posts
Fri May-17-13 12:00 PM

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21. "actually Phil already said Kobe is more skilled and a better shooter"
In response to Reply # 20
Fri May-17-13 12:02 PM by LBs Finest

  

          

http://youtu.be/W_WNTx3gG_s

>Feel in his own subtle yet etherous way admitted Bean isn't
>better than Jordan in any aspect of the game.

Mad?

_________________________

  

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T Reynolds
Member since Apr 16th 2007
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Fri May-17-13 12:04 PM

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22. "HE WAS BERCERK"
In response to Reply # 21


  

          

  

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Ryan M
Member since Oct 21st 2002
43745 posts
Fri May-17-13 12:09 PM

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24. "Again, MJ stans are the only ones who compare at this point."
In response to Reply # 20


  

          

Despite the argument "being dead" for at least 5 years, you guys keep bringing it up.

------------------------------

17x NBA Champions

  

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rob
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Fri May-17-13 05:57 PM

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35. "being an mj stan isn't a thing. he's michael fucking jordan. "
In response to Reply # 24


  

          

  

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Ryan M
Member since Oct 21st 2002
43745 posts
Fri May-17-13 07:11 PM

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37. "If you're too dense to get my point, then I dunno what to tell you."
In response to Reply # 35


  

          

------------------------------

17x NBA Champions

  

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rob
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Fri May-17-13 07:35 PM

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39. "well other than your point being a lie (it's been 2 years AT MOST)"
In response to Reply # 37


  

          

we still got people making fun of allen iverson's GOAT status, so i'd say its gonna be a while before the making-fun-of-kobe's-delusions-of-grandeur window closes.

  

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Ryan M
Member since Oct 21st 2002
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Fri May-17-13 07:52 PM

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41. "REALLY? A lie?"
In response to Reply # 39


  

          

Remember that article?

http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/page2/story?page=keown/080617


Remember these posts?

http://board.okayplayer.com/okp.php?az=show_topic&forum=21&topic_id=62012&mesg_id=62012&listing_type=search

http://board.okayplayer.com/okp.php?az=show_topic&forum=21&topic_id=74211&mesg_id=74211&listing_type=search

Just search "Jordan" in there. The debates "been over" since Kobe lost to the Celtics in 2008.

2 years at MOST?

Shut up, dude.

Laker fans gave this up years ago. To the point where we've responded, "OH NO KOBE WONT BE BETTER THAN THE BEST PLAYER OF ALL TIME? HE SUX"

------------------------------

17x NBA Champions

  

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rob
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Sat May-18-13 05:06 AM

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50. "of course 5 years is a damn lie, why are you acting like it isn't?"
In response to Reply # 41


  

          

this isn't about the consensus. the consensus has always been the same. we're talking about people making dumbass claims, like even last summer.

http://board.okayplayer.com/okp.php?az=show_topic&forum=8&topic_id=1998981&mesg_id=1998981

http://board.okayplayer.com/okp.php?az=show_topic&forum=8&topic_id=2026583&mesg_id=2026583

and kobe bringing on the comparison constantly, like last year

http://board.okayplayer.com/okp.php?az=show_topic&forum=8&topic_id=1924503&mesg_id=1924503&listing_type=search

and i'm sure in all them dumbass interviews and facebook posts this year but i ain't gonna read all that.

and of course there's the "scorer" angle

http://board.okayplayer.com/okp.php?az=show_topic&forum=8&topic_id=1893077&mesg_id=1893077&listing_type=search

that's not even including all the dumbass posts that i didn't read searching "kobe jordan goat." i WISH the boards had all the junk posts from 2010. and yes the lakers lost to dallas 25 mos ago, which is where i got 2 years from, because that's when most (but not all) of the stans gave up on more rings.

OF COURSE there are articles and posts people saying shit was over. shit was over in 1993. that don't mean people haven't been posting stupid since.

  

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rob
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Sat May-18-13 05:08 AM

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51. "and lol at scrolling down to see kira and kobe making my point for me"
In response to Reply # 50


  

          

  

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Ryan M
Member since Oct 21st 2002
43745 posts
Sat May-18-13 12:18 PM

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55. "lulz...you're using Kira and LB to make your point? Failure."
In response to Reply # 50


  

          

I'm done.

------------------------------

17x NBA Champions

  

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rob
Charter member
23210 posts
Sat May-18-13 12:38 PM

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57. "what they don't count? you talking about stans but not your stans?"
In response to Reply # 55


  

          

were there other people who EVER though kobe was better? cause if your 5 years ago was referring to someone else, like umm, "reasonable" lakers fans, then I might need to reevaluate their reasonableness.

  

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vee-lover
Member since Jul 30th 2007
20388 posts
Fri May-17-13 07:48 PM

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40. "nope this is Feel answering a question, has nothing to do w/oks"
In response to Reply # 24


  

          

and for the record, the debate keeps coming up because Bean still makes it clear he's (futilely) chasing MJ's legacy...he's mimicked MJ in a way no player has ever done so before...

And even in the article, the writer points out how often he has posed that question to Feel but to no avail. Feel prolly just wanted to end the discussion by politely saying Bean's NOT in the same stratosphere as MJ...in any facet of the game.

grassrootsphilosopher

  

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Ryan M
Member since Oct 21st 2002
43745 posts
Fri May-17-13 07:53 PM

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42. "Yeah, how horrible to chase championships."
In response to Reply # 40


  

          

>and for the record, the debate keeps coming up because Bean
>still makes it clear he's (futilely) chasing MJ's
>legacy...he's mimicked MJ in a way no player has ever done so
>before...
>
>And even in the article, the writer points out how often he
>has posed that question to Feel but to no avail. Feel prolly
>just wanted to end the discussion by politely saying Bean's
>NOT in the same stratosphere as MJ...in any facet of the
>game.

------------------------------

17x NBA Champions

  

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ConcreteCharlie
Member since Nov 21st 2002
71387 posts
Fri May-17-13 10:36 PM

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44. "MJ Stans bother unprompted? But agreed that they feed trolls"
In response to Reply # 24


  

          

I see a couple examples in this very thread!

And you will know MY JACKET IS GOLD when I lay my vengeance upon thee.

  

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Nick Has a Problem...Seriously
Member since Dec 25th 2010
16580 posts
Fri May-17-13 02:52 PM

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29. "Jordan was 6-0 in the finals so the comparisons were never there"
In response to Reply # 20


  

          

******************************************
Falcons, Braves, Bulldogs and Hawks

Geto Boys, Poison Clan, UGK, Eightball & MJG, OutKast, Goodie Mob

  

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NotScared2Ask
Member since Aug 23rd 2011
687 posts
Fri May-17-13 12:09 PM

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23. "Ha. Yeah Kobe join the long list of losers not better than MJ "
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

... Tired of this shit.

Wish we could go ten summers without referencing Jordan's career at all

  

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Kira
Member since Nov 14th 2004
28848 posts
Fri May-17-13 12:58 PM

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26. "NOPE! GOAT better than Jordan"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

>MJ vs. Kobe? Here it is from the man who would know best.
>
>"Michael was more charismatic and gregarious than Kobe. He
>loved hanging out with his teammates and security guards,
>playing cards, smoking cigars, and joking around," Jackson
>said in the book, which was obtained in advance by The Times.

Michael punched a teammate in the face and didn't stand up for another one. He's a terrible teammate in 2013.

>"No question, Michael was a tougher, more intimidating
>defender. He could break through virtually any screen and shut
>down almost any player with his intense, laser-focused style
>of defense," said Jackson, who coached Jordan to six
>championships and Bryant to five.
>
>"Kobe has learned a lot from studying Michael's tricks, and we
>often used him as our secret weapon on defense when we needed
>to turn the direction of a game. In general, Kobe tends to
>rely more heavily on his flexibility and craftiness, but he
>takes a lot of gambles on defense and sometimes pays the
>price."

In other words, Kobe face tougher competition with more parity. It's easy to intimidate someone when you're the only physical freak in the league. Meanwhile GOAT deals with a league of physical freaks. Young Kobe hoed Jordan for the record.
>
>What about the part of the game where Bryant captivated fans
>by scoring 81 points against Toronto and 62 in three quarters
>against Dallas?
>
>Jackson noted the "pronounced" difference in their accuracy,
>Jordan shooting almost 50% — an "extraordinary figure" — while
>Bryant had been at 45%.

Jordan doesn't have an 81 point game. 5 percentage points at shit.

>
>"Michael was more likely to break through his attackers with
>power and strength, while Kobe often tries to finesse his way
>through mass pileups," Jackson wrote. "Michael was stronger,
>with bigger shoulders and a sturdier frame. He also had large
>hands that allowed him to control the ball better and make
>subtle fakes.
>
>"Jordan was also more naturally inclined to let the game come
>to him and not overplay his hand, whereas Kobe tends to force
>the action, especially when the game isn't going his way. When
>his shot is off, Kobe will pound away relentlessly until his
>luck turns. Michael, on the other hand, would shift his
>attention to defense or passing or setting screens to help the
>team win the game."

Jordan could let the game come to him because he had a better supporting cast and Scottie to cover him. Phil is attesting to GOAT's relentless pursuit of victory. However, he's wrong in the sense that Jordan did gun.

This dude Bombastic has been stalking me. LOL at me defending an opinion to anyone. Fuck all of you over-invested ass niggas trying to party off an opinion. I never presented that statement as a fact. Bombastic is the same idiot that said Pittsburgh isn't a part of the midwest.

No empathy for white misery (c) BDot

"root for everybody black haters say that's crazy, wow..."

  

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blueeclipse
Member since Apr 12th 2009
1855 posts
Fri May-17-13 02:25 PM

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27. "I don't even think you believe this shit...."
In response to Reply # 26


  

          

C'mon.

I'm a Pistons fan as it pains me to say this but Jordan is better than Kobe and it's not even close because of MJ's intangibles. Kobe is a great player, no doubt, but come on.

The 81 point game doesn't mean shit to me cause it was against the Raptors and in an era where Jordan in his prime would have regularly gone the fuck off on teams.

Jordan played in a MUCH tougher era. To me that alone ends this argument. Jordan put up ridiculous stats and dominated in an era that was stocked full of hall of famers and legitimately dominate teams in an era with less teams that were deeper and more physical.

Also, outside of Pippen those Bulls teams were not very good, so that's a weak argument too.

Yes, Jordan was punching teammates, IT WAS A DIFFERENT ERA. Shit like that went on constantly. I get pissed cause Zeke gets shitted on for being a asshole win at all cost guy and Jordan was just as bad if not worse. This was more of a David Stern issue than anything.

  

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LA2Philly
Member since Oct 18th 2004
41249 posts
Fri May-17-13 02:37 PM

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28. "Agree with the sentiment but a couple parts are just silly"
In response to Reply # 27


  

          


>The 81 point game doesn't mean shit to me cause it was against
>the Raptors and in an era where Jordan in his prime would have
>regularly gone the fuck off on teams.

"81 points doesn't mean shit to me"....read that again. The second highest points total doesn't anything to you because of a hypothetical you setup in your mind about what MJ *could have done*. These are still professional teams man. I mean c'mon.

>Also, outside of Pippen those Bulls teams were not very good,
>so that's a weak argument too.

Not very good? The Bulls team in 1993-1994, without MJ, won 55 games, had three all-stars, and went to the Eastern Conference semifinals. Those teams def had talent outside of MJ and Pippen.

---------------------------------
<--The drought is over

"have fun reveling in your pettiness tho" (C) Dula summing up 98% of OKS

"I didnt finish a damn thing...matter of fact I jerked off after she left."
-Kobe speaking to investigators

L D E A

  

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Bombastic
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Fri May-17-13 03:33 PM

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30. "LOL @ Philly=Midwest or Kobe>MJ as opinions rather than just dumb/wrong"
In response to Reply # 26


  

          

the only thing stalking you is your own stupidity.

  

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Kira
Member since Nov 14th 2004
28848 posts
Fri May-17-13 04:09 PM

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31. "Kobe>MJ is a fact"
In response to Reply # 30


  

          

>the only thing stalking you is your own stupidity.

Your assertion that Pittsburgh is a part of the east coast is retarded. Oh and you stalking me. I need a restraining order.

No empathy for white misery (c) BDot

"root for everybody black haters say that's crazy, wow..."

  

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Bombastic
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Fri May-17-13 04:24 PM

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32. "stalked by your own stupidity, much like the 25 others who laughed at u"
In response to Reply # 31


  

          

in that post, I wasn't paying your dumb ass any extra mind.

You just happened to bring out an extra level of jackassery that stood out.

No idea why you keep rambling about some Pittsburgh shit I didn't say, guess you read threads as well as you do maps.

  

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Kira
Member since Nov 14th 2004
28848 posts
Fri May-17-13 05:09 PM

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33. "Nope you said it."
In response to Reply # 32


  

          

>in that post, I wasn't paying your dumb ass any extra mind.
>
>You just happened to bring out an extra level of jackassery
>that stood out.
>
>No idea why you keep rambling about some Pittsburgh shit I
>didn't say, guess you read threads as well as you do maps.

Once again I don't have to justify my opinion to anyone. It's a free country people laugh at opinons all the time just like I'm laughing at yours However, it's a fact GOAT better than Jordan.

No empathy for white misery (c) BDot

"root for everybody black haters say that's crazy, wow..."

  

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Bombastic
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Fri May-17-13 05:16 PM

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34. "too dumb to carry on an actual dialogue with, I'mma just leave this here"
In response to Reply # 33


  

          

http://board.okayplayer.com/okp.php?az=show_topic&forum=4&topic_id=11973714&mesg_id=11973714&listing_type=search#11973774

Enjoy what I'm sure will be another challenging weekend.

  

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Kira
Member since Nov 14th 2004
28848 posts
Fri May-17-13 06:37 PM

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36. "I never said Philly wasn't on the east coast you dumbass."
In response to Reply # 34


  

          

The post requested that people list their favorite cities and regions. For purposes of discussion, I lumped Philly in with the Midwest in order to avoid giving NYC props. At no point in that post did I say "Philly is a part of the Midwest".

Reading is fundamental but I wouldn't expect a retard like you to know this fact. You post the link 1000 times you troll.

No empathy for white misery (c) BDot

"root for everybody black haters say that's crazy, wow..."

  

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Bombastic
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Fri May-17-13 07:16 PM

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38. "oh I read it, story doesn't really check out but it was worth a shot"
In response to Reply # 36


  

          

http://board.okayplayer.com/okp.php?az=show_topic&forum=4&topic_id=11973714&mesg_id=11973714&listing_type=search#11973760

  

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AlBundy
Member since May 27th 2002
9621 posts
Fri May-17-13 09:48 PM

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43. "http://tinyurl.com/d3tj7ss"
In response to Reply # 31


  

          

http://tinyurl.com/d3tj7ss
lol @ fact. you crazy as fuck

  

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philpot
Member since Apr 01st 2007
21673 posts
Sat May-18-13 07:01 AM

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53. "this can't be real"
In response to Reply # 26


  

          

________________________________________________________________
whenever you did these things to the least of my brothers you did them to me

  

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LegacyNS
Member since Jan 16th 2004
38095 posts
Sat May-18-13 10:14 AM

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54. "I HEARD MAFUCKAS SAYIN SHAQ MADE KOBE"
In response to Reply # 26


  

          

THEN I SAID OK SHAQ, YOU WON LESS W/O KOBE....
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
<---- 5....
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dlgiritpmfo

=======================================
Occupy Big Government..

Fannie, Freddie dole out big bonuses
http://www.politico.com/news/stories/1011/67292.html

  

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the_time_is_when_god...lounge
Member since Nov 19th 2012
5495 posts
Sat May-18-13 12:31 PM

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56. "you are a fucking idiot. "
In response to Reply # 26


  

          

--------
Twitter: _TheloniousFunk
Instagram: thelonious_funk_

  

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Kira
Member since Nov 14th 2004
28848 posts
Sat May-18-13 12:42 PM

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59. "NOPE! It's the truth."
In response to Reply # 56


  

          

CRY

No empathy for white misery (c) BDot

"root for everybody black haters say that's crazy, wow..."

  

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LAbeathustla
Member since Jan 24th 2004
33858 posts
Sat May-18-13 01:50 AM

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45. "Bean tweets back.."
In response to Reply # 0
Sat May-18-13 01:50 AM by LAbeathustla

  

          

https://twitter.com/kobebryant/status/335485124219129856

The comparisons are #apples2oranges Wonder what the perception would be if M played wit @shaq instead #differentroles #differentcareerpaths



jordan and shaq?

really?

------------------------------------
2019 CABG Survivor

2016 OK Survivor Champion

be about it or be without it

RIP GOATs

  

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AlBundy
Member since May 27th 2002
9621 posts
Sat May-18-13 02:14 AM

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46. "Kobe salty"
In response to Reply # 45


  

          

-------------------------
“The other dude after me didn’t help my case. It was just like…crazy nigga factory going on.”
Dre makes no apologies for his own eccentricities. “I was young, and searching, trying to find myself,” he says. “Never did.”-- Andre B

  

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Bombastic
Charter member
88874 posts
Sat May-18-13 03:15 AM

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47. "LOL, still pretending 9 years of Prime Shaq to start was a cross to bear"
In response to Reply # 45


  

          

  

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LAbeathustla
Member since Jan 24th 2004
33858 posts
Sat May-18-13 03:19 AM

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48. "hes really digging a deeper hole with that comment.."
In response to Reply # 47


  

          

lets just say for starters.. i'm pretty sure shaq and jordan wouldve gotten by the pistons

------------------------------------
2019 CABG Survivor

2016 OK Survivor Champion

be about it or be without it

RIP GOATs

  

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Bombastic
Charter member
88874 posts
Sat May-18-13 03:30 AM

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49. "he's cool including those Shaq rings when he wants to tout the total"
In response to Reply # 48


  

          

but mad context ain't the one-way-street he wants it to be.

  

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Kira
Member since Nov 14th 2004
28848 posts
Sat May-18-13 12:41 PM

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58. "Jordan did play with Scottie"
In response to Reply # 45


  

          

Having said that, GOAT has a point. If Jordan played with Shaq, all those same things we say about Kobe we'd say about Jordan. There's no Jordan myth without Scottie Pippen. Those Bulls teams were loaded with talent. Let's not act like Scotgie couldn't have won rings in Chicago as the 1a with those same teams.

The dumbass cornball haters say anyone could win a chip with Shaq. Penny couldn't do it. It's a lot of this is butthurt Jordanistas rewriting history. Jordan ain't walk on water. Robert Horry has more rings than Jordan.

No empathy for white misery (c) BDot

"root for everybody black haters say that's crazy, wow..."

  

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LAbeathustla
Member since Jan 24th 2004
33858 posts
Sat May-18-13 04:16 PM

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60. "Scottie played with Jordan you mean"
In response to Reply # 58


  

          

Jordan made Scottie cuzz...

------------------------------------
2019 CABG Survivor

2016 OK Survivor Champion

be about it or be without it

RIP GOATs

  

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ConcreteCharlie
Member since Nov 21st 2002
71387 posts
Sat May-18-13 05:49 PM

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61. "lmao wow, how fucking pathetic will this guy be in retirement?"
In response to Reply # 45


  

          

he bout to make jordan and joe namath look well adjusted.

And you will know MY JACKET IS GOLD when I lay my vengeance upon thee.

  

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mistermaxxx08
Member since Dec 31st 2010
16076 posts
Sun May-19-13 12:45 AM

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62. "Kobe wouldn't be that deep without Shaq and that is a fact"
In response to Reply # 45


          

Shaq in his Prime and Peak could have put rings on Liberaces's Fangers easily. folks miss the point, Shaq had to have the right coach and situation that allowed him to elevate and take his game to a whole new level and he didn't have that in Orlando.

Brian Hill? i mean that alone cost Shaq 2-3 finals right there.

Shaq was doing things when he had the right coach period.

in his prime with Phil and Pat he won Rangs period.


Feel Jackson is One of the Greatest coaches ever in Pro sports, however Stevie Wonder could see that Kobe ain't seeing no Jordan.

i think as a Offensive Force Kobe can hang with Jordan, however everything else not even close.

Kobe makes the game too close for himself

Kobe wants to much drama when it don't need to be

Kobe never makes his teammates better and he acts like he is still at the playground and wants to use his will on everything as to just letting the game come to him.

i'll tell you something Jordan never would have let Shaq go and he certainly would know how to work with Gasol and Dwight believe that.

Kobe can't see past his Mamba tats and his vision is the reason why he ain't the Greatest

Shaq's dad Phillip Harrison said it best about Kobe years ago, if Kobe could see the court he would be the Greatest or at least in the argument but he ain't.

Kobe knows that no matter what he does from here on out he is always forever linked to Shaq and he also knows that Shaq is a more important Player as well.

Jordan never played with a Greater player than shaq and in truth Phil should have made a argument between Jordan and Shaq that would have been something else

Kobe ain't even the Greatest Laker Magic Johnson always got that honor.

Kobe wasn't the best player in the Post Jordan era that honor goes to Shaq and Duncan.

mistermaxxx R.Kelly, Michael Jackson,Stevie wonder,Rick James,Marvin Gaye,El Debarge, Barry WHite Lionel RIchie,Isleys EWF,Lady T.,Kid creole and coconuts,the crusaders,kc sunshine band,bee gees,jW,sd,NE,JB

Miami Heat, New York Yankees,buffalo bills

  

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