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Subject: "If Duncan gets #5, his career>Kobe's, or no?" Previous topic | Next topic
ConcreteCharlie
Member since Nov 21st 2002
71175 posts
Sun Jun-01-14 06:06 PM

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"Poll question: If Duncan gets #5, his career>Kobe's, or no?"


  

          

Poll result (42 votes)
Yes, two NBA MVPs plus at least three Finals MVPs (25 votes)Vote
No, Mamba put up NUMBERS (9 votes)Vote
Can't compare effectively because of different positions (3 votes)Vote
I wear suede peacoats and distressed jeans (Team JORN!) (1 votes)Vote
Sometimes you just gotta take the pussy (2 votes)Vote
Ich bin weiί (2 votes)Vote

  

  

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Topic Outline
Subject Author Message Date ID
In 20 years, Duncans gonna get Russell level adulation
Apr 14th 2013
1
wat
Apr 14th 2013
7
A lot of Russell's hype is based on legend because there wasn't a lot...
Apr 14th 2013
14
11 rings are fact not legend wtf
Apr 14th 2013
23
No shit bitch, a lot of people on those Boston teams have a bunch...
Apr 14th 2013
32
      spoken like someone who doesnt believe in dinosaurs.
Apr 14th 2013
39
      Have you ever seen one?
Apr 14th 2013
42
           Have you ever seen Jesus?
Apr 14th 2013
45
           Every time I look in the mirror
Apr 14th 2013
50
                Is that you, Earl Monroe?
Apr 14th 2013
52
                     You didn't know?
Apr 14th 2013
54
           wait, you seriously don't believe that dinosaurs existed?
Jun 03rd 2014
306
      fuck nigga mad like shit lol
Apr 14th 2013
43
           I bet you douche with turpentine
Apr 14th 2013
53
                I'm sure you want a taste
Apr 14th 2013
70
                     I don't mess with swine
Apr 14th 2013
78
lol, no.
Apr 14th 2013
25
      Duncan has been a model of consistency but he has never really...
Apr 14th 2013
41
           Duncan could have easily put up more prolific offensive #s
Apr 14th 2013
59
                lol, more hypothetical bs, the bottom line is he didn't...
Apr 14th 2013
66
                     ummm...u shouldn't say this without checking first
Apr 15th 2013
129
                          Not to mention the amount of times he destroyed the Mavs/Suns
Jun 01st 2014
268
the greg kite of his generation?
Apr 14th 2013
26
lol...unless he wins 11 championships w/ 1 as player/coach...no
Apr 15th 2013
88
Elmo basically has outlasted all of his rivals
Apr 14th 2013
2
So did Kobe
Apr 14th 2013
8
      We don't really know yet on either
Apr 14th 2013
38
           Kobe's rivals were people like Iverson, T-Mac, and Vince, Pierce was...
Apr 14th 2013
44
                So I take it you voted green and not blue then, right?
Apr 14th 2013
46
                     Vince's prime>>>>>>>>>>>Pierce' prime
Apr 14th 2013
55
                          Vince's prime last one calendar year
Apr 15th 2013
92
                               He was still better and more relevant than Pierce was prior to 2008
Apr 15th 2013
113
                                    Since '01 Vince spent more time in the training room than on the court
Apr 15th 2013
134
                                    how so? pierce doubled VC's playoff success in a two-year period
Apr 15th 2013
177
LOL...wake me up, if and when he gets there....you dudes kill me
Apr 14th 2013
3
Duncan doesn't need another 'chip to prove he better....
Apr 14th 2013
4
He's a dominant big. They're always better to build a team around
Apr 14th 2013
5
Doesn't change my answer. I'll still take Duncan's career over
Apr 14th 2013
6
wait, being better to build around doesnt make him better?
Apr 14th 2013
49
      Duncan is easier to build around than MJ. Doesn't make him better
Apr 15th 2013
147
           he said 'better,' not 'easier.' he is also capable of replying, no?
Apr 15th 2013
179
                sure. but you're asking a question based on semantics knowing
Apr 15th 2013
181
lol, that's a bullshit argument based on nothing...
Apr 14th 2013
9
Dude if Phil Jackson had Duncan and Shaq...
Apr 14th 2013
11
RE: Dude if Phil Jackson had Duncan and Shaq...
Apr 14th 2013
12
      two things
Apr 14th 2013
16
           RE: two things
Apr 14th 2013
18
Duncan at 37 >>>>>>>>>>>> Robinson in '99. The Admiral is
Apr 14th 2013
19
      Robinson's numbers in 99-00 were almost identical to Duncan's now...
Apr 14th 2013
48
           Wow, thanks for the history lesson chief. Wasn't aware that was
Apr 14th 2013
60
                All those guys you're writing off as "aging vets" were still major...
Apr 14th 2013
62
                     So, does Kobe win a title with those '99 and '03 Spurs teams?
Apr 14th 2013
64
                          Even in 99 Robinson was better than Gasol, Parker and Ginobili...
Apr 14th 2013
71
                               So I take that as a NO. Also, lol at you trying prop up Duncan's
Apr 14th 2013
77
                                    RE: So I take that as a NO. Also, lol at you trying prop up Duncan's
Apr 14th 2013
79
                                         You're lying like shit and avoiding the real question I asked...
Apr 14th 2013
80
                                              I try not to get too much into the hypothetical jerk-off games you guys....
Apr 14th 2013
81
Would Duncan have 5 if Rob wasn't there when he was drafted?
Apr 14th 2013
21
      That's a relativist argument, the fact is that he won with and without
Apr 14th 2013
34
           How is it relativist? Both men had great players at their side.
Apr 14th 2013
84
                Just saying "both had good/great players" is dismissive n inaccurate
Apr 15th 2013
93
                     Not in Whatifburg
Apr 15th 2013
114
Duncan career already better...
Apr 14th 2013
10
RE: If Duncan gets #5, his career>Kobe's, or no?
Apr 14th 2013
13
Duncan career is already better
Apr 14th 2013
15
lol...
Apr 14th 2013
17
Yup.
Apr 14th 2013
20
basically
Apr 14th 2013
35
is it CLEARLY better though? i am not sure about that
Apr 14th 2013
37
One extra title is significant.
Apr 15th 2013
87
That's stupid
Apr 15th 2013
130
You're stupid.
Apr 15th 2013
145
      How many rings do they make every year?
Apr 15th 2013
150
           So more rings are given out than MVP's? Good job, genius.
Apr 15th 2013
151
                All those guys are going to the hall.
Apr 15th 2013
153
                     Because Rob wasn't a role player.
Apr 15th 2013
156
not when one was the best player on all 4 & the other 2 of the 5
Apr 15th 2013
140
^^^it really is - anyone being objective can admit as much
Jun 01st 2014
270
Niccas hate Kobe. I can't even get upset about posts like this anymore
Apr 14th 2013
22
I rarely, if ever, have made a 'hater' statement regarding Kobe...
Apr 14th 2013
29
      Yo MM - the OP is using a hypothetical to frame an argument
Apr 14th 2013
31
           I thought about a "he's already better" option but cmon
Apr 14th 2013
33
           Um, I just acknowledged MM's TD argument right above your reply
Apr 14th 2013
73
                how much of a role do you really think the minutes played?
Apr 15th 2013
95
                     RE: how much of a role do you really think the minutes played?
Apr 15th 2013
100
           I get what you're saying, but I honestly don't see it as hate...
Apr 14th 2013
67
If he wins no. 5, I'd say so but as their respective careers stands
Apr 14th 2013
24
if Dunc gets a chip this year, all it proves is
Apr 14th 2013
27
LOL. Now we're using hypotheticals for arguments. Pathetic CC
Apr 14th 2013
28
Cmon man, I know your flow is heavy but take a Midol, sister.
Apr 14th 2013
36
      RE: Cmon man, I know your flow is heavy but take a Midol, sister.
Apr 14th 2013
63
      Totally. Such lunacy to want arguments to be based on actual merit
Apr 14th 2013
74
           It's not some parallel universe, they have the top fucking seed!
Apr 15th 2013
96
                They've been the 2 seed since early last week, 5-6 in their last 11
Apr 15th 2013
104
                     you look at maybe two teams believed to be ahead of them
Apr 15th 2013
109
      I've never done any of what you said so miss me w all that
Apr 14th 2013
72
Duncan already better period
Apr 14th 2013
30
seriously. And the way some folk make it seem...
Apr 14th 2013
40
      because Kobe got annointed early on as the next Jordan
Apr 14th 2013
47
           i mean, so did harold minor, kobe made it a discussion kinda sorta
Apr 14th 2013
51
           well Kobe, talked and had the mannerisms, also he played
Apr 14th 2013
56
                lol
Apr 14th 2013
57
           oh, PLEASE... he isn't the only one to get that anointment
Apr 14th 2013
61
                who else did Walt Clyde Frazier call out for being
Apr 14th 2013
68
                Right, Kobe was just the only one that came close to living up to it
Apr 14th 2013
69
                Why are you trying to have a sensible conversation with maxx?
Apr 14th 2013
85
                     I'm holding the mirror up to the BS.
Apr 15th 2013
117
                          if you got two good ears you good hear him talking like him
Apr 15th 2013
180
http://i3.hoopchina.com.cn/blogfile/201010/16/128723838750707.jpg
Apr 14th 2013
58
RE: If Duncan gets #5, his career>Kobe's, or no?
Apr 14th 2013
65
Agreed
Apr 14th 2013
75
too depressed to partake in this discussion
Apr 14th 2013
76
No, but Duncan has had a far better career than KG
Apr 14th 2013
82
only Shaq was in Duncan's way period
Apr 14th 2013
83
BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
Apr 14th 2013
86
are you on kobe's payroll?
Apr 15th 2013
90
Do you wipe down the young woman Kells pisses on?
Apr 15th 2013
94
      well aren't you a colorful character all set for a prime time BET comi...
Apr 15th 2013
99
Kobe was to Shaq what Wade is to Bron
Apr 15th 2013
91
      if that's true, than I don't wanna hear about Wade is better than Kobe
Apr 15th 2013
115
      the only problem is both Wade & Kobe proved they could win a chip
Apr 15th 2013
119
           Base...
Apr 15th 2013
123
                Tell me how many playoff series Kobe won w/o Pau?
Apr 15th 2013
138
                     Tell me how many playoff GAMES Pau won with Kobe.. lol
Apr 16th 2013
218
                          Who the hell claimed Pau was the GOAT
Jun 01st 2014
283
I wouldn't say "anybody" but there were a small handful of guys
Apr 15th 2013
97
      Shaq during that 3 peat run could have won with Mookie BLaylock
Apr 15th 2013
101
           Let's not crown Shaq...dude NEVER played a championship like D
Apr 15th 2013
107
           blazers and kings they beat woulda cakewalked to titles otherwise
Apr 15th 2013
121
                When Shaq had to check a big man......he got nutted on
Apr 15th 2013
133
                     25-27 points a game 10-12 boards
Apr 16th 2013
191
                     lol, EVERYBODY nutted on Elmo from Shaq to Amare to Z-Bo...
Apr 16th 2013
232
                          Elmo is 1000X better team defender than Shaq ever was.......
Apr 16th 2013
234
           LOL. I know you're trolling but LOL
Apr 15th 2013
116
LOL
Apr 15th 2013
89
not according to this:
Apr 15th 2013
111
      ^^^^^^^^^ EVERYONE MISSED THIS
Apr 18th 2013
257
Hol' up.....y'all musta forgot Admiral nutted against Greg Foster in '98
Apr 15th 2013
98
Admiral was badd, however not duncan badd
Apr 15th 2013
103
Just to be clear....Kobe with 2 games left in the season was having
Apr 15th 2013
102
with a 8th seeded team, with a great center which is always said
Apr 15th 2013
105
Stacked with talent, Maxxx?
Apr 15th 2013
112
besides the three other Hall of Famers, where was his supporting cast?
Apr 15th 2013
124
y'all dudes are funny
Apr 15th 2013
126
      kobe was acting like he had hall of famers in their prime this summer
Apr 15th 2013
135
      dude, Howard played every game. Pau played just about any game
Apr 15th 2013
141
      funny how laker fans ignored that while sweeping fig for a parade
Apr 16th 2013
194
this laker team was expected to be in the conversation with
Apr 15th 2013
178
stacked with talent? ....http://tinyurl.com/brnusss
Apr 15th 2013
118
      let's see: Top C/Top-5 Player, Top 3 PF, HOF PG + Kobe. Oh, right
Apr 15th 2013
125
           That looks great on paper.
Apr 15th 2013
128
                The Lakers started 17-25 but they're 27-12 since (69% win %)
Apr 15th 2013
131
                except the Spurs are about to win 60 games despite injuries
Apr 15th 2013
136
                     the Spurs core has been playing together for a decade.. lol
Apr 15th 2013
137
                          Championship core: Kobe/Pau/Artest = Tim/Tony/Manu
Apr 15th 2013
139
                               haha - you fool.. what the hell is wrong with you?
Apr 16th 2013
219
                                    They went to the Finals w/o Bynum
Jun 01st 2014
265
                lol not counting blake and hill missing time. the starting 5 has played
Apr 15th 2013
146
                     Yup. I'd like to see all the teams in history with seasons like this
Apr 15th 2013
152
                     BWHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAAAA.......WAAAAAAAAAH
Apr 15th 2013
163
                          Clearly I'm crying about it and not presenting a reasonable perspective
Apr 15th 2013
167
                               all I'm sayin is injuries did not deprive this team a chance to be great
Apr 15th 2013
169
                                    RE: all I'm sayin is injuries did not deprive this team a chance to be g...
Apr 15th 2013
174
                                         it's important for context to note my initial replies were to JAESCOTT
Apr 15th 2013
176
                     it aint bullshit, this team had 3 of those 4 guys on court at all times
Apr 15th 2013
162
                          You're right, this hasn't been a timultuous season from jump.
Apr 15th 2013
171
                          RE: You're right, this hasn't been a timultuous season from jump.
Apr 15th 2013
173
                               That's all fair discourse.
Apr 15th 2013
175
                               exactly, other teams handled adversity better and even with all
Apr 16th 2013
195
                          You're the only person on the planet truly believing this bullshit
Apr 15th 2013
182
                               cook all season? shit, I've been easy on these cats, really.
Apr 15th 2013
184
                                    lol k.
Apr 16th 2013
192
Tim has a higher efficiency rating & leads the league in defensive ratin...
Apr 15th 2013
106
lulz
Apr 15th 2013
110
Kobe has a higher TS, same eFG, higher Off Rating, higher AST%
Apr 15th 2013
144
      Kobe has basically been a one way player all season long
Apr 15th 2013
157
           RE: Kobe has basically been a one way player all season long
Apr 16th 2013
189
                2013-14: Bean 18 games played-->Results: Not top 10 shooting guard
Jun 01st 2014
294
but it wasn't better than duncan this year. the desperation shows when y...
Apr 15th 2013
108
      lol http://bkref.com/tiny/Wb6Jr
Apr 15th 2013
143
           i'm not seeing better?
Apr 15th 2013
161
                10 less games is significant considering the numbers are virtually
Apr 15th 2013
183
                     lol, duncan gonna actually have the chance to make up those 10
Apr 15th 2013
185
                          lol wat?
Apr 16th 2013
187
                               it seems like a simple concept. ask kobe when he'd prefer them 10 games....
Apr 16th 2013
188
                                    your concept is flawed. We're talking about the numbers. The numbers
Apr 16th 2013
190
                                         lol, can't have it both ways
Apr 16th 2013
201
                                              RE: lol, can't have it both ways
Apr 16th 2013
212
If the name of Tim's team was NY Knicks
Apr 15th 2013
120
it's part location but also style and lack of stat whoring
Apr 15th 2013
122
with a few exceptions its basically like that for most big men...
Apr 15th 2013
127
      it shows d'antoni's hall, though karl should take more 3s.
Apr 15th 2013
132
           you're mad because it has KG ahead of Duncan
Apr 15th 2013
142
                According to the formula you standby, Tim is rated higher than Kobe
Apr 15th 2013
159
                why would i be mad? it has kg ahead of damn near everyone.
Apr 15th 2013
160
I think it's a good debate honestly. But lol at some of this shape
Apr 15th 2013
148
another note:
Apr 15th 2013
149
IF THIS HAPPENS.....
Apr 15th 2013
154
Kobe might be the only player where scoring is frowned upon.
Apr 15th 2013
155
Kobe is the only HOF that has been shit on by a HOF coach/teammates
Apr 15th 2013
158
Your header is a dumb, completely irrelevant argument.
Apr 15th 2013
165
      Pau, when utilized the right way is basically the best offensive big
Apr 16th 2013
203
           Cool story bro. Nobody is calling for a HOF induction.
Apr 16th 2013
208
                For Gasol? Oddly I have been swung on that, he might make it
Apr 16th 2013
238
                     He'll get in based on his international resume.
Apr 16th 2013
240
                          well, in that case then Top5/Manu ain't HOFer either
Apr 17th 2013
241
                               And?
Apr 17th 2013
242
                                    It proves that Bean didn't have an inferior supporting cast
Jun 01st 2014
284
kobestan was so much more tolerable when kobe was winning
Apr 15th 2013
164
If y'all fucks didn't keep talking about Kobe like the downside of his
Apr 15th 2013
166
kobe never changed. why should we?
Apr 15th 2013
186
summary: debate is close, maybe getting closer, how do u feel?
Apr 16th 2013
193
      actually the post is a fair one. Not offended. Just beneath you in parti...
Apr 16th 2013
199
           sorry but roland lazenby canceled our lunch, homey
Apr 16th 2013
237
Duncan is an emotionless robot though.
Apr 15th 2013
168
eh, if that's the case, what about Karl Malone?
Apr 15th 2013
170
I don't see where this is a relevant argument.
Apr 15th 2013
172
i take Dwyane Wade over Kobe
Apr 16th 2013
198
      LOL. Go away troll.
Apr 16th 2013
206
      Wade won with a 75 year old Shaq to boot
Apr 16th 2013
215
           Oh, you mean runner up MVP Shaq?
Apr 16th 2013
224
                runner-up to MVP was the prior year, I hear you tho
Apr 16th 2013
226
he is by many people, especially if you consider duncan a 5
Apr 16th 2013
196
      I think the Tim Duncan is the greatest PF ever narrative explains
Apr 16th 2013
200
      because the espn era media like to make it sound like
Apr 16th 2013
209
Duncan won without a prime HOF player in 2003
Apr 16th 2013
210
      Pau wasn't a HOF in 2009 if we're going there nm
Apr 17th 2013
243
      Pau was All-NBA in 2009. He was in his prime.
Apr 17th 2013
244
           Kobe made him All NBA
Apr 17th 2013
246
                Pau scored more in Memphis
Apr 17th 2013
248
                     based on what you initially said, Pau wasn't a HOF until he started
Apr 17th 2013
249
                     That's not what I initially said. I was talking about primes.
Apr 18th 2013
251
                     you said prime HOF players. but ok nm
Apr 19th 2013
258
                     All-NBA 1st Team, HOF, that's hair splitting at its finest
Apr 19th 2013
260
                     you mean when he was the #1 option? shocking
Apr 17th 2013
250
                          I guess Kobe made him put up that triple-double w/20 rebs last night too
Apr 18th 2013
252
                               Please explain what one has to do with the other.
Apr 18th 2013
253
                               LB said Kobe made him All-NBA feeding him easy baskets, I said he scored...
Apr 19th 2013
259
                                    He was third tier. Third tier doesn't mean you suck, it makes you
Apr 19th 2013
262
                                         20/10/3 on 54% FG & 2 BPG is not "third tier"
Apr 19th 2013
263
                               Please explain what one has to do with the other.
Apr 18th 2013
254
                               these last 2 games without him he's 10-34 from the field
Apr 18th 2013
256
      Cool. He's also on that short list. Kobe is too, actually.
Apr 18th 2013
255
           Duncan is on that short list, Kobe isn't.
Apr 19th 2013
264
It's been a year.......& Bean is still 30 games away
Jun 01st 2014
266
this thread just made me think of an OKS oldie but goodie
Apr 16th 2013
197
you know what post there's never been? duncan can't win without " "
Apr 16th 2013
202
chuuuuurch
Apr 16th 2013
204
Pop
Apr 16th 2013
205
that's never been a post
Apr 16th 2013
225
Nice diversion.
Apr 16th 2013
207
duncan did it all period, and if are talking about coaching
Apr 16th 2013
211
He's wasn't significant until later on in his career..
Apr 16th 2013
213
or because nobody gives a fuck about Duncan here. That has far
Apr 16th 2013
214
Shoryuken!
Apr 16th 2013
216
got em
Apr 17th 2013
245
Kobe should be thanking KG's knee for his latest rings
Apr 16th 2013
217
      KG should be thanking Bynums knee for his ONLY ring.
Apr 16th 2013
220
      which amounted to barely winning a game 7 against a not the same KG
Apr 16th 2013
227
           ....also on a bad knee.
Apr 16th 2013
229
      or KG should be thanking Bynum's knees that he's got a ring at all
Apr 16th 2013
221
           *high five*
Apr 16th 2013
222
           http://sinbapointforward.files.wordpress.com/2012/12/andrew-bynum-sixers...
Apr 16th 2013
223
           Drew would have made a difference in a 40 pt massacre...Riiight
Jun 01st 2014
269
I've never heard any coach/player refer to Duncan as best of his generat...
Apr 16th 2013
228
Duncan's win-loss % and achievements say Duncan imo
Apr 16th 2013
230
I've never heard any coach/player say Kobe is a better scorer than MJ
Apr 16th 2013
231
lmao
Apr 16th 2013
239
I have
Apr 17th 2013
247
voices in your head don't qualify
Apr 19th 2013
261
The consensus has always been Jordan, anyone who argues
Jun 01st 2014
272
i have heard it or he was the 2nd best to Shaq
Apr 16th 2013
233
Bill Russell: HOF Player-Coach/Lord of the Chips
Apr 16th 2013
235
that's what plugging your ears and saying lalalalalalalala will do
Apr 16th 2013
236
It's 2014 & Timmay is outplaying the MVP; Bean is in his fishing boat
Jun 01st 2014
267
5 star uppage
Jun 01st 2014
271
I'm not sure that Kobe-Haters realize
Jun 01st 2014
273
yall haven't thought of anything new to say in over a year?
Jun 01st 2014
274
^^^ THIS IS A FIVE STAR REPLY. Warren deals in FACTS.
Jun 01st 2014
275
Kobestans/Media started the agenda by claiming Kobe was better
Jun 01st 2014
276
It's obviously a generational comparison. Dont be simple.
Jun 01st 2014
277
If Timmay is just a "role player" then please do tell who the
Jun 01st 2014
278
      He's their leader ...that's his role...but he's still a 15-10 guy
Jun 01st 2014
279
           kobe's a 0-0-0-0-0-0 guy albatrossing his team right today
Jun 01st 2014
280
           partying on injuries just shows how much Kobe has
Jun 01st 2014
281
                warren i honestly hope he signs another deal and coaches too
Jun 01st 2014
285
                I was as disappointed as anyone that Bean wasn't on the court in 2013
Jun 01st 2014
293
           LOL trying to reduce this argument to ppg. Yeah, you really
Jun 01st 2014
282
           if you're comparing players....production has to be
Jun 01st 2014
289
                Name me another player that averaged 15/10 at 38.....anyone
Jun 01st 2014
292
                     basketball-reference.com is your friend
Jun 03rd 2014
311
           Tim has the HIGHEST win-share of anyone 38 & over in HISTORY
Jun 01st 2014
286
           ?? the fukk is a "win-share"....lolol... Kareem won 3 titles
Jun 01st 2014
287
                Magic was the best player in the LEAGUE during those years
Jun 01st 2014
288
                     huh?? dude Timmay is playing Center and Bron is playing PF
Jun 01st 2014
290
                          Bron was checkin' Splitter....he was playing Center
Jun 01st 2014
291
           lolz.
Jun 03rd 2014
307
Duncan's 03 title was impressive, but....
Jun 02nd 2014
295
Wrong!
Jun 02nd 2014
296
The toughest series was not versus Houston
Jun 02nd 2014
297
      actually it went 7 games cuz Adelman was coaching circles around Phil
Jun 02nd 2014
298
           O right, of course he was!
Jun 02nd 2014
299
           More like Aaron Brooks was running circles around Fish
Jun 02nd 2014
300
Pau WILL be in the HOF though, he had two all-star bigs
Jun 03rd 2014
304
Pau will make the HOF
Jun 03rd 2014
305
Duncan won even if he loses this finals. His career is greater
Jun 02nd 2014
301
More like w/ 1 more Finals MVP & 1 more reg season MVP
Jun 02nd 2014
303
lol. Cmon...Timmy's better already.
Jun 02nd 2014
302
bleacher report sees it.
Jun 03rd 2014
308
http://i40.photobucket.com/albums/e249/Newz05/NikeTalk/AveryJohnson.gif
Jun 03rd 2014
309
in fairness, bleacher report sees everything if it gives them clicks.
Jun 03rd 2014
310

ErnestLee
Member since Mar 03rd 2003
28522 posts
Sun Apr-14-13 03:30 AM

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1. "In 20 years, Duncans gonna get Russell level adulation"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

Kinda deserved imo. Ridiculous career.

---------------------------------------------------------

  

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ThaTruth
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7. "wat"
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ThaTruth
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14. "A lot of Russell's hype is based on legend because there wasn't a lot..."
In response to Reply # 1


  

          

of video back then. We're in the video age now, a Duncan hightlight film would be boring as shit. 20 years from now people are going to look at that and look at his numbers and say what's the big deal?

  

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CherNic
Member since Aug 18th 2005
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23. "11 rings are fact not legend wtf"
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ThaTruth
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32. "No shit bitch, a lot of people on those Boston teams have a bunch..."
In response to Reply # 23


  

          

of rings, but if you look at Russell's stats outside on rebounding his numbers aren't that impressive.

People say things like "Russell would've averaged 10 blocks a game if that statistic was kept then" but we don't really know. All the little ancedotes largely produced by Boston sport writers about him playing "mind games" with Wilt when Wilt was really bussing Bill's ass are at least as much fiction as fact.

  

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ConcreteCharlie
Member since Nov 21st 2002
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39. "spoken like someone who doesnt believe in dinosaurs."
In response to Reply # 32


  

          

And you will know MY JACKET IS GOLD when I lay my vengeance upon thee.

  

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ThaTruth
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42. "Have you ever seen one?"
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ConcreteCharlie
Member since Nov 21st 2002
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45. "Have you ever seen Jesus?"
In response to Reply # 42


  

          

Thanks for playing.

And you will know MY JACKET IS GOLD when I lay my vengeance upon thee.

  

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ThaTruth
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50. "Every time I look in the mirror"
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ConcreteCharlie
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52. "Is that you, Earl Monroe?"
In response to Reply # 50


  

          

And you will know MY JACKET IS GOLD when I lay my vengeance upon thee.

  

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ThaTruth
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54. "You didn't know?"
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KosherSam
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306. "wait, you seriously don't believe that dinosaurs existed?"
In response to Reply # 42


  

          

*Jews you*

"this is okp tho, reading is completely optional" (c) desus

Proceed with caution. I am overtly racist.

<-- In Pigpen we trust

  

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CherNic
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43. "fuck nigga mad like shit lol"
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ThaTruth
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53. "I bet you douche with turpentine "
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CherNic
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70. "I'm sure you want a taste"
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ThaTruth
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78. "I don't mess with swine"
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pretentious username
Member since Jun 18th 2010
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25. "lol, no."
In response to Reply # 14


  

          

20 years from now
>people are going to look at that and look at his numbers and
>say what's the big deal?

i know you hate him, and his highlight reel is unimpressive, but there's absolutely no way to look at his numbers and say "what's the big deal?"

and when his nickname is "the big fundamental", i think people will get it.

  

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ThaTruth
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41. "Duncan has been a model of consistency but he has never really..."
In response to Reply # 25


  

          

been a dominant scorer on the offensive end. He's only averaged more that 25ppg once in his career. Compared to a lot of the other all-time great PF's that's not that impressive. And he's been 1st team all defense a million times playing the weak side shot blocker role. It's telling that despite all those 1st all-defense accolades he's never won DPOY, never even been runner-up.

  

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Mignight Maruder
Member since Nov 30th 2003
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59. "Duncan could have easily put up more prolific offensive #s"
In response to Reply # 41


  

          

if it was really that important to him and the Spurs success. It wasn't. Bottom line, Duncan got it done on both ends of the floor and that's all that matters.

And for being a self-proclaimed Lakers/Shaq fan, you sure have a hazy memory regarding Duncan's scoring ability. Head to head, Duncan averaged more ppg and rpg than Shaq (even more so in the playoffs). Even when the Spurs were getting bounced by the Lakers, Duncan was putting up insane scoring numbers.

I also find it amusing how you go to great lengths to downplay Duncan's impact on the defensive side of the ball. Quite amazing how Duncan managed to amass 4 NBA titles and 3 Finals MVPs as the unquestioned leader of his team without being a dominant scorer nor a great defensive player.

  

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ThaTruth
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66. "lol, more hypothetical bs, the bottom line is he didn't..."
In response to Reply # 59


  

          

>if it was really that important to him and the Spurs success.
>It wasn't. Bottom line, Duncan got it done on both ends of
>the floor and that's all that matters.
>
>And for being a self-proclaimed Lakers/Shaq fan, you sure have
>a hazy memory regarding Duncan's scoring ability. Head to
>head, Duncan averaged more ppg and rpg than Shaq (even more
>so in the playoffs). Even when the Spurs were getting bounced
>by the Lakers, Duncan was putting up insane scoring numbers.

^^^Ducktails, never happened, tell me what series Duncan out scored Shaq in? Duncan has never put up "insane" scoring numbers

>I also find it amusing how you go to great lengths to downplay
>Duncan's impact on the defensive side of the ball. Quite
>amazing how Duncan managed to amass 4 NBA titles and 3 Finals
>MVPs as the unquestioned leader of his team without being a
>dominant scorer nor a great defensive player.

For all his defensive reputation has he ever really shut an opposing post player down in the playoffs? And for the record Duncan wasn't the "unquestioned leader" of that 99 team

  

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thejerseytornado
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129. "ummm...u shouldn't say this without checking first"
In response to Reply # 66


  

          

>^^^Ducktails, never happened, tell me what series Duncan out
>scored Shaq in? Duncan has never put up "insane" scoring
>numbers

http://bkref.com/tiny/qTHxJ

quick scan says at least in 99, 02, and 03 Duncan outscored shaq.

-----------
It's only funny till someone gets mad. Then it's hilarious.

  

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FILF
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268. "Not to mention the amount of times he destroyed the Mavs/Suns"
In response to Reply # 129


  

          

>>^^^Ducktails, never happened, tell me what series Duncan
>out
>>scored Shaq in? Duncan has never put up "insane" scoring
>>numbers
>
>http://bkref.com/tiny/qTHxJ
>
>quick scan says at least in 99, 02, and 03 Duncan outscored
>shaq.

WHAT'S GOOD *****? What's REALLY good?!?!????!!! Ha HA!
http://40.media.tumblr.com/d8e2daf9f3f37244cd05436bcdf05973/tumblr_mt4qibKq4c1rgam01o1_1280.png

  

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Guinness
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26. "the greg kite of his generation?"
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Warren Coolidge
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88. "lol...unless he wins 11 championships w/ 1 as player/coach...no"
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FILF
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2. "Elmo basically has outlasted all of his rivals"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

Tim tore his lateral meniscus just in his 3rd year & he has still been a model of consistency throughout his career. Just look at how crippled PRIME Cp3 looks compared to his peak years b/c of the same injury.

WHAT'S GOOD *****? What's REALLY good?!?!????!!! Ha HA!
http://40.media.tumblr.com/d8e2daf9f3f37244cd05436bcdf05973/tumblr_mt4qibKq4c1rgam01o1_1280.png

  

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ThaTruth
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8. "So did Kobe"
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ConcreteCharlie
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38. "We don't really know yet on either"
In response to Reply # 8


  

          

Last I checked Kobe, Elmo, Nash, Pierce, KG, Ray Allen, et al were still active and doing things of note.

And you will know MY JACKET IS GOLD when I lay my vengeance upon thee.

  

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ThaTruth
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44. "Kobe's rivals were people like Iverson, T-Mac, and Vince, Pierce was..."
In response to Reply # 38


  

          

never really in the convo even though Boston fans wanted him to be, neither was Ray or Nash.

Duncan and KG are in a different category as big men

  

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ConcreteCharlie
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46. "So I take it you voted green and not blue then, right?"
In response to Reply # 44
Sun Apr-14-13 03:25 PM by ConcreteCharlie

  

          

Pierce>Vince but whatever, beside the point.

And you will know MY JACKET IS GOLD when I lay my vengeance upon thee.

  

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ThaTruth
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55. "Vince's prime>>>>>>>>>>>Pierce' prime"
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FILF
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92. "Vince's prime last one calendar year"
In response to Reply # 55


  

          

Pierce all day....and the Truth

WHAT'S GOOD *****? What's REALLY good?!?!????!!! Ha HA!
http://40.media.tumblr.com/d8e2daf9f3f37244cd05436bcdf05973/tumblr_mt4qibKq4c1rgam01o1_1280.png

  

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ThaTruth
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113. "He was still better and more relevant than Pierce was prior to 2008"
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FILF
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134. "Since '01 Vince spent more time in the training room than on the court"
In response to Reply # 113


  

          

He had a decent run w/ Kidd before he went to Orlando & Pierce demolished him in the EFC.

WHAT'S GOOD *****? What's REALLY good?!?!????!!! Ha HA!
http://40.media.tumblr.com/d8e2daf9f3f37244cd05436bcdf05973/tumblr_mt4qibKq4c1rgam01o1_1280.png

  

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ConcreteCharlie
Member since Nov 21st 2002
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177. "how so? pierce doubled VC's playoff success in a two-year period"
In response to Reply # 113
Mon Apr-15-13 09:27 PM by ConcreteCharlie

  

          

way before 08, i am talking like 02 and 03.

pierce did not suddenly become a stud in 2008, jesus christ, that was not even his best season.

And you will know MY JACKET IS GOLD when I lay my vengeance upon thee.

  

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Ink_Spot
Member since Mar 26th 2004
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3. "LOL...wake me up, if and when he gets there....you dudes kill me"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

you guys try way too fucking hard.....thought this train of thought was deaded a few seasons ago, but I will be Jesus, and bless the water into wine, so you dudes can carry on.

  

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Mignight Maruder
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4. "Duncan doesn't need another 'chip to prove he better...."
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

First things first, as much as I'd love to see the Spurs win another chip, they ain't doing it this year. They have no depth, no bench. Manu's got two feet firmly planted in the grave. Top 5 been banged up the last several months. Duncan has been having an amazing throwback season, but it simply won't be enough to make it through OKC, let alone whoever they get paired up with in the playoffs. This team is falling apart at the worst time. I hope I'm wrong, but all the signs are there for an early exit.

But back to the question. Duncan better and I think a really simple argument can dead this question. If the Spurs had drafted Kobe instead of Duncan, how many chips do you think Kobe would have today??? My guess is one, *maybe* two at best (and I'm being generous). Swap Kobe for Duncan on the Lakers and you're talking 5+ chips with ease. If winning is the all-important attribute you're looking for - instead of scoring titles and ratings - Duncan is the clear cut better player to have on your team.

  

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Nick Has a Problem...Seriously
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5. "He's a dominant big. They're always better to build a team around"
In response to Reply # 4


  

          

Doesn't make him better than Kobe.

****************************************
Falcons, Braves, Bulldogs and Hawks

"Dude just seems like he's been chosen for some reason. Maybe he did a backspin for Oprah or something." micMajestic

http://www.discogs.com/user/buhloone

  

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Mignight Maruder
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6. "Doesn't change my answer. I'll still take Duncan's career over"
In response to Reply # 5


  

          

Kobe's. Duncan was the unquestioned leader/focal point of the Spurs championship run. 4 titles. Dominant player on both sides of the ball. Has led his team to 14 straight 50 plus win seasons (playoffs every year). And let's not forget his dominance at Wake Forrest too.

Kobe's all time great for sure. Right up there with Duncan. But for me, Duncan is the better player and has had the better career imo.

  

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ConcreteCharlie
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49. "wait, being better to build around doesnt make him better?"
In response to Reply # 5


  

          

what is the point of playing professional basketball again?

And you will know MY JACKET IS GOLD when I lay my vengeance upon thee.

  

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El_essence
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147. "Duncan is easier to build around than MJ. Doesn't make him better"
In response to Reply # 49


  

          

.

  

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ConcreteCharlie
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179. "he said 'better,' not 'easier.' he is also capable of replying, no?"
In response to Reply # 147


  

          

And you will know MY JACKET IS GOLD when I lay my vengeance upon thee.

  

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El_essence
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181. "sure. but you're asking a question based on semantics knowing"
In response to Reply # 179


  

          

the general consensus is the template to building a team has historically been building around a big. You're much better than this CC.

  

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ThaTruth
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9. "lol, that's a bullshit argument based on nothing..."
In response to Reply # 4


  

          


>But back to the question. Duncan better and I think a really
>simple argument can dead this question. If the Spurs had
>drafted Kobe instead of Duncan, how many chips do you think
>Kobe would have today??? My guess is one, *maybe* two at best
>(and I'm being generous). Swap Kobe for Duncan on the Lakers
>and you're talking 5+ chips with ease. If winning is the
>all-important attribute you're looking for - instead of
>scoring titles and ratings - Duncan is the clear cut better
>player to have on your team.

You think think Pop wouldnt have won with Kobe and Robinson and all those great role players they had?

You think Shaq would've stepped back and let Duncan be the man like Robinson did in San Antonio?

  

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FromTheGo
Member since Feb 04th 2003
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Sun Apr-14-13 09:33 AM

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11. "Dude if Phil Jackson had Duncan and Shaq..."
In response to Reply # 9


  

          

Hell if Dell Harris had Duncan and Shaq and Nick Van Exel and Eddie Jones...wouldn't have needed Phil Jackson...


†††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††
http://s17.postimg.org/6r7bfqpnz/kyrieglass.jpg - They Call Him Mr. Glass

  

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ThaTruth
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12. "RE: Dude if Phil Jackson had Duncan and Shaq..."
In response to Reply # 11


  

          

>Hell if Dell Harris had Duncan and Shaq and Nick Van Exel and
>Eddie Jones...wouldn't have needed Phil Jackson...

Dell Harris had Shaq, Kobe, Van Exel and Eddie Jones and couldn't make it work. Phil would've won 73+ games a season with Eddie Jones at the other guard spot instead of old ass Ron Harper and Derek Fisher.

And with Shaq in his prime you really don't want anybody else in the post clogging things up. That's why Orlando traded CWebb for Penny.

  

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FromTheGo
Member since Feb 04th 2003
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16. "two things "
In response to Reply # 12


  

          

1. Shaq wasn't in his prime in season #2 when they drafted Webber. Penny was a 6'7 guard that could play in the post as well as run point...2 birds 1 stone...and it furthermore helped their style of ball because with both Shaq and Penny able to post up, it allowed Nick and Dennis to camp out at 3


2. Kobe 96-99 wasn't shit compared to Kobe 2000-2007. Duncan came in the gate as a defensive impact and soon became offensively and defensively balanced. Shaq in his prime with Duncan would have been legendary. Duncan would have taken the rebound slack and been score 20point off midrange shots off the backboard. Two of the most efficient post players on the same squad...all EJ and Nick and Fish would have had to do is shoot wide open 3's. You would have had to double down on both Shaq and Duncan and both are getting you well above 55% from the field. 20 shots a game each or 25 Shaq 20 Duncan and both are getting at least 25ppg or more every night.


†††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††
http://s17.postimg.org/6r7bfqpnz/kyrieglass.jpg - They Call Him Mr. Glass

  

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ThaTruth
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18. "RE: two things "
In response to Reply # 16


  

          

>1. Shaq wasn't in his prime in season #2 when they drafted
>Webber.

I know that but they still didn't need another scorer in the post. The "twin towers" thing sounds better on paper than in reality. Somebody has to be willing to sacrifice and take a back seat to the other guy and that generally doesn't happen with 2 guys at or near their prime.

>2. Kobe 96-99 wasn't shit compared to Kobe 2000-2007. Duncan
>came in the gate as a defensive impact and soon became
>offensively and defensively balanced. Shaq in his prime with
>Duncan would have been legendary. Duncan would have taken the
>rebound slack and been score 20point off midrange shots off
>the backboard. Two of the most efficient post players on the
>same squad...all EJ and Nick and Fish would have had to do is
>shoot wide open 3's. You would have had to double down on both
>Shaq and Duncan and both are getting you well above 55% from
>the field. 20 shots a game each or 25 Shaq 20 Duncan and both
>are getting at least 25ppg or more every night.

All Duncan's presence would've done would be to make it easier for people to double and triple-team Shaq. Do you actually remember how dominant Shaq was in his prime? Duncan would've been in the way. Shaq's ideal frontcourt mate was Robert Horry, a stretch 4 that could knock down 3's.

  

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Mignight Maruder
Member since Nov 30th 2003
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19. "Duncan at 37 >>>>>>>>>>>> Robinson in '99. The Admiral is "
In response to Reply # 9


  

          

the reason I became a Spurs fan in the first place. He was my favorite player as a kid. I followed both Duncan's and Robinson's career pretty closely. Duncan has been far more dominant for a much longer stretch. You keep bringing up DRob like he was in his prime back in the late 90s/early 2000s. DRob was still a major force in '99, but he was a clear 2nd option to Duncan. By '03, he had a very limited role. Important? Yes. Major contributor? No.

>You think think Pop wouldnt have won with Kobe and Robinson
>and all those great role players they had?

Actually, I don't see Pop winning a title with Kobe/Robinson in '99 or '03. In '03, Kobe is not carrying that team to a title and he sure as shit ain't doing that in '99. By 2005 and 2007, yes, the Spurs had assembled a great supporting cast around Duncan. But in '99/'03? You're out of your damn mind if you think Kobe is carrying those teams to a championship. By '03 Bruce Bowen and SJax were very solid (not much of contributors on offense though) and Tony Parker and Ginobli hadn't quite developed yet. In '99, the Admiral had one foot in the grave and the Spurs didn't have a single prolific scorer besides Duncan.


>You think Shaq would've stepped back and let Duncan be the man
>like Robinson did in San Antonio?

Who knows. Duncan doesn't have the enormous ego that Kobe does, so there's a possiblity it may have worked. Duncan always held his own (even put up better numbers) against Shaq throughout his career so Shaq wouldn't have had much of a choice but to share the spotlight.

  

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ThaTruth
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48. "Robinson's numbers in 99-00 were almost identical to Duncan's now..."
In response to Reply # 19


  

          


>Actually, I don't see Pop winning a title with Kobe/Robinson
>in '99 or '03. In '03, Kobe is not carrying that team to a
>title and he sure as shit ain't doing that in '99. By 2005 and
>2007, yes, the Spurs had assembled a great supporting cast
>around Duncan. But in '99/'03? You're out of your damn mind
>if you think Kobe is carrying those teams to a championship.
>By '03 Bruce Bowen and SJax were very solid (not much of
>contributors on offense though) and Tony Parker and Ginobli
>hadn't quite developed yet. In '99, the Admiral had one foot
>in the grave and the Spurs didn't have a single prolific
>scorer besides Duncan.

Are you sure you were a Spurs fan? Because that 99 team still had a veteran core that had averaged almost 60 wins for like 3 years straight and had been to the WCF a couple of years before Duncan got there. The only reason they had a chance to get Duncan was that Robinson got injured early in the 96-97 season and could have came back but they held him out and basically tanked the rest of that season to get into the lottery.

>>You think Shaq would've stepped back and let Duncan be the
>man
>>like Robinson did in San Antonio?
>
>Who knows. Duncan doesn't have the enormous ego that Kobe
>does, so there's a possiblity it may have worked. Duncan
>always held his own (even put up better numbers) against Shaq

That's a damned LIE, lol

>throughout his career so Shaq wouldn't have had much of a
>choice but to share the spotlight.

okayplayer.

  

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Mignight Maruder
Member since Nov 30th 2003
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60. "Wow, thanks for the history lesson chief. Wasn't aware that was"
In response to Reply # 48


  

          

how the Spurs acquired Duncan.

Uh, yeah, no shit the Spurs already had a solid foundation in place. And yes, the Admiral was a still a solid player when Duncan came aboard. But let's not kid ourselves, Duncan took over as the #1 option right away and Duncan was able to dominate in the postseason the way the Admiral never did. Admiral was a solid, solid player - but not his old self. Far from his prime dominance.

DRob, Mario Elie, Sean Elliot, Avery Johnson, and Jaren Jackson were all aging vets at that point. They weren't superstars. Despite the obvious tank, that was an aging team on the decline. Anyone who watched the Spurs knew their window of opportunity was closing fast. Duncan was the DIFFERENCE.

>Are you sure you were a Spurs fan? Because that 99 team still
>had a veteran core that had averaged almost 60 wins for like 3
>years straight and had been to the WCF a couple of years
>before Duncan got there. The only reason they had a chance to
>get Duncan was that Robinson got injured early in the 96-97
>season and could have came back but they held him out and
>basically tanked the rest of that season to get into the
>lottery.

  

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ThaTruth
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62. "All those guys you're writing off as "aging vets" were still major..."
In response to Reply # 60


  

          

contributors on that 99 team and they all high big time clutch shots to get that team to the title.

  

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Mignight Maruder
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64. "So, does Kobe win a title with those '99 and '03 Spurs teams?"
In response to Reply # 62


  

          

I mean, according to you those Spurs teams were loaded with talent and clutch shooters. Duncan (per you) wasn't great defensively, nor was he a prolific scorer. So, does Kobe lead those Spurs team to a title?

That was my original point. There's no need in you telling me how great Duncan's old teammates were. I remember those teams quite vividly.

  

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ThaTruth
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71. "Even in 99 Robinson was better than Gasol, Parker and Ginobili..."
In response to Reply # 64


  

          

are better than any other perimeter players that Kobe ever played with.

  

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Mignight Maruder
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77. "So I take that as a NO. Also, lol at you trying prop up Duncan's"
In response to Reply # 71


  

          

teammates while completely neglecting the bevy of talent Kobe was spoiled with throughout his career.


So, DRob was better in '99 than Gasol. Okay. 2003? No, not even close. Funny how you omitted Lamar Odom AND Andrew Bynum as if they weren't major contributors as big men too during Kobe's last championship run. LOL. And correct me if I'm wrong, but did Duncan ever have a teammate remotely as dominant as three-peat era Shaq?

See, this is my whole argument. Of course Kobe wins the poll if you strictly limit your standard to rings (5>4) or scoring titles. But I personally value a player's worth by how much impact they have on their team's success. Duncan, imo, has done more with less talent around him throughout his career. Has he been blessed with a great coach and supporting cast? Yes, absolutely. So has Kobe - in imo, to a much greater extent.

I'm not letting Kobe off the hook for those painfully mediocre post-Shaq era Lakers. No way you are convincing me that shit would happen on Duncan's watch. That, to me, is what separates the two. Duncan has consistently been a winner through numerous roster changes and turnover throughout his career. I'm convinced that Timmay could have won a ring with numerous teams. I'm not so convinced that Kobe could. And again, that is what separates the two to me.

  

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ThaTruth
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79. "RE: So I take that as a NO. Also, lol at you trying prop up Duncan's"
In response to Reply # 77


  

          

>teammates while completely neglecting the bevy of talent Kobe
>was spoiled with throughout his career.

lol@"bevy of talent", that first 3-peat team was Shaq, Kobe and who? Then there was the Kwame/Smush era.

>
>So, DRob was better in '99 than Gasol. Okay. 2003? No, not
>even close. Funny how you omitted Lamar Odom AND Andrew Bynum

Bynum was less of a factor on those last 2 title teams than D-Rob was in 03

>as if they weren't major contributors as big men too during
>Kobe's last championship run. LOL. And correct me if I'm
>wrong, but did Duncan ever have a teammate remotely as
>dominant as three-peat era Shaq?

Who was the MVP in the 07 Finals? Not Timmy, he played like shit


>See, this is my whole argument. Of course Kobe wins the poll
>if you strictly limit your standard to rings (5>4) or scoring
>titles. But I personally value a player's worth by how much
>impact they have on their team's success. Duncan, imo, has
>done more with less talent around him throughout his career.
>Has he been blessed with a great coach and supporting cast?
>Yes, absolutely. So has Kobe - in imo, to a much greater
>extent.

I agree that Phil is greater than Pop but that more talent thing is bs

>I'm not letting Kobe off the hook for those painfully mediocre
>post-Shaq era Lakers. No way you are convincing me that shit
>would happen on Duncan's watch. That, to me, is what
>separates the two. Duncan has consistently been a winner
>through numerous roster changes and turnover throughout his
>career. I'm convinced that Timmay could have won a ring with
>numerous teams. I'm not so convinced that Kobe could. And
>again, that is what separates the two to me.

lol, so is Duncan a GM now? Did he put those teams together? FOH clown...

  

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Mignight Maruder
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80. "You're lying like shit and avoiding the real question I asked..."
In response to Reply # 79


  

          

It's okay, I know you got nothing left. By the way, Bynum averaged about twice as many points and boards a game during those championship years as DRob in '03, but I'll let you continue on with your weak attempt to discredit Duncan.

  

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ThaTruth
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81. "I try not to get too much into the hypothetical jerk-off games you guys...."
In response to Reply # 80


  

          

like to play but YES, I believe it would have been possible for Kobe to win with Duncan's teams.

  

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Cold Truth
Member since Jan 28th 2004
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21. "Would Duncan have 5 if Rob wasn't there when he was drafted?"
In response to Reply # 4


  

          

Would he have 5 if they hadn't plucked Top Five and Ginobili so late in their drafts?

People only play the 'what if' game in one direction.

  

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ConcreteCharlie
Member since Nov 21st 2002
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34. "That's a relativist argument, the fact is that he won with and without"
In response to Reply # 21


  

          

Parker, with and without Ginobili, with and without Robinson and, more broadly, he won with and without another big man of note (after Robinson we are talking, Oberto, Blair, Bonner et al) and without dominant guards (before Parker and Ginobili).

He has won with different rosters and different supporting stars, many of them, in fact and even different types of rosters/dynamics.

Kobe certainly can lay claim to two different teams but not so much the other variables. Both guys have had the same HOF coaching, that's a wash.

And you will know MY JACKET IS GOLD when I lay my vengeance upon thee.

  

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Cold Truth
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84. "How is it relativist? Both men had great players at their side."
In response to Reply # 34
Mon Apr-15-13 12:03 AM by Cold Truth

  

          

>Parker, with and without Ginobili, with and without Robinson
>and, more broadly, he won with and without another big man of
>note (after Robinson we are talking, Oberto, Blair, Bonner et
>al) and without dominant guards (before Parker and Ginobili).
>
>He has won with different rosters and different supporting
>stars, many of them, in fact and even different types of
>rosters/dynamics.
>
>Kobe certainly can lay claim to two different teams but not so
>much the other variables. Both guys have had the same HOF
>coaching, that's a wash.

Well, Tim had a great big man at his side to take some pressure off in his younger years, and then two amazing guards for the last few titles. Kobe never won alongside another great guard. It's always been pretty much just him. Duncan has arguably more variables, but the the point still stands: both guys had incredible assets at their disposal. If we're playing the "what if" game, the variables are immaterial because it's all about the 'if' factor. If Duncan didn't have dominant players at his side, regardless of position, would he have five? If he didn't have the coach he had? If, if, if, if.

If we're comparing their *actual* careers, that's one thing, but Whatifland opens up every possible question. What if Tim Duncan had decided to simply become an Olympic swimmer and hated basketball? We wouldn't be having this conversation, and that's my point. What if is ridiculous. There's more than enough to make an argument in Tim's favor without playing 'what if.....'?

'What if' is all too often employed at Kobe's expense in these conversations, and people rarely want to play it on both sides. It's an argument that's right up there with 'he needed great team mates to win' that people like to use against Kobe on a regular basis without playing it on the other side.

  

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ConcreteCharlie
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93. "Just saying "both had good/great players" is dismissive n inaccurate"
In response to Reply # 84


  

          

And you will know MY JACKET IS GOLD when I lay my vengeance upon thee.

  

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Cold Truth
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114. "Not in Whatifburg"
In response to Reply # 93


  

          

Real world, the argument is more nuanced.

In Couldabeensvillethe game should be played both ways or not at all.

  

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FromTheGo
Member since Feb 04th 2003
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10. "Duncan career already better..."
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

†††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††
http://s17.postimg.org/6r7bfqpnz/kyrieglass.jpg - They Call Him Mr. Glass

  

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kwemos
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13. "RE: If Duncan gets #5, his career>Kobe's, or no?"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

No need to compare careers in this instance. Doing so is just for pointless debate.

  

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southphillyman
Member since Oct 22nd 2003
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15. "Duncan career is already better "
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

~~~~~~

  

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ThaTruth
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17. "lol..."
In response to Reply # 15


  

          

  

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RaFromQueens
Member since Apr 18th 2006
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20. "Yup."
In response to Reply # 15


  

          

Timmy
4Χ NBA champion (1999, 2003, 2005, 2007)
3Χ NBA Finals MVP (1999, 2003, 2005)
2Χ NBA Most Valuable Player (2002–2003)

Kobe
5Χ NBA champion (2000–2002, 2009–2010)
2Χ NBA Finals MVP (2009–2010)
NBA Most Valuable Player (2008)

Add to that 20-11 on a long career w 50% shooting?

---
"People that need positivity around them all the time are weak individuals in my book" - @lilduval

  

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Lach
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35. "basically"
In response to Reply # 15


  

          

  

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ConcreteCharlie
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37. "is it CLEARLY better though? i am not sure about that"
In response to Reply # 15


  

          

And you will know MY JACKET IS GOLD when I lay my vengeance upon thee.

  

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Cold Truth
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87. "One extra title is significant. "
In response to Reply # 15


  

          

Titles are harder to come by than MVP's.

Duncan has the edge, but looking at their respective positions and that extra title makes the picture cloudier IMO.

  

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RaFromQueens
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130. "That's stupid"
In response to Reply # 87


  

          

>Titles are harder to come by than MVP's.
>
>

---
"People that need positivity around them all the time are weak individuals in my book" - @lilduval

  

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Cold Truth
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145. "You're stupid."
In response to Reply # 130


  

          

  

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RaFromQueens
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150. "How many rings do they make every year?"
In response to Reply # 145


  

          

Now how many MVP Trophies do they make?


Stupid.

---
"People that need positivity around them all the time are weak individuals in my book" - @lilduval

  

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Cold Truth
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151. "So more rings are given out than MVP's? Good job, genius."
In response to Reply # 150
Mon Apr-15-13 04:14 PM by Cold Truth

  

          

Nash has two MVP trophies. How many rings?
Barkley and Mailman have MVP's. No rings.

Conclusion? Rings are harder to come by.

Further, people don't VOTE on the NBA champ. You actually have to WIN that. Nobody votes you to be NBA champ.

  

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RaFromQueens
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153. "All those guys are going to the hall."
In response to Reply # 151


  

          

Is Robert Horry?

---
"People that need positivity around them all the time are weak individuals in my book" - @lilduval

  

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Cold Truth
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156. "Because Rob wasn't a role player. "
In response to Reply # 153
Mon Apr-15-13 04:26 PM by Cold Truth

  

          

Rob carried those teams to titles.

He wasn't a utility player who just hit big shots, damnit, he was the fucking STAR, baby!

No really, that's not an Apples vs Transmissions argument or anything. The guys I mentioned are like kinds, and Rob is nowhere near that class.

Winning a title is harder to do.

  

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Bombastic
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140. "not when one was the best player on all 4 & the other 2 of the 5"
In response to Reply # 87


  

          

  

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vee-lover
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270. "^^^it really is - anyone being objective can admit as much"
In response to Reply # 15


  

          

grassrootsphilosopher

  

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Nick Has a Problem...Seriously
Member since Dec 25th 2010
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22. "Niccas hate Kobe. I can't even get upset about posts like this anymore"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

Duncan is a fucking great player too. Y'all carry on though.

****************************************
Falcons, Braves, Bulldogs and Hawks

"Dude just seems like he's been chosen for some reason. Maybe he did a backspin for Oprah or something." micMajestic

http://www.discogs.com/user/buhloone

  

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Mignight Maruder
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29. "I rarely, if ever, have made a 'hater' statement regarding Kobe..."
In response to Reply # 22


  

          

I have a TON of respect for his body of work and what he's been able to accomplish throughout his career. I will truly miss watching him play when he retires.

However, the fact that you are in here crying because Kobe is supposedly getting 'hated' on makes you and other Kobe dickriders look soft as shit. Please highlight exactly to me where people in here have made hateful statements about Kobe.

If simply believing Duncan has had the better career than Kobe (which is not uncommon thought at all oustide of LA) makes you a hater, then consider me a hater.

  

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LA2Philly
Member since Oct 18th 2004
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31. "Yo MM - the OP is using a hypothetical to frame an argument"
In response to Reply # 29
Sun Apr-14-13 02:19 PM by LA2Philly

  

          

No problem with your argument that you believe TD is better right today...but that's not what the OP insinuates. If he believed that, the post wouldn't be 'IF Duncan wins a 5th', there would be no preface.

It most certainly is the typical loser and hater shit to bring up hypotheticals (and huge ones at that) in order to frame a debate. That's not what you did but it is what CC did in the original post...and that's what Nick was replying to.

---------------------------------
<--The drought is over

"have fun reveling in your pettiness tho" (C) Dula summing up 98% of OKS

"I didnt finish a damn thing...matter of fact I jerked off after she left."
-Kobe speaking to investigators

L D E A

  

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ConcreteCharlie
Member since Nov 21st 2002
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33. "I thought about a "he's already better" option but cmon"
In response to Reply # 31
Sun Apr-14-13 03:34 PM by ConcreteCharlie

  

          

you can't have it both ways, you guys would be crying endlessly if that were there.

for the record, i think it's a great debate but a messy one. i do think if you were picking no. 1 overall with both guys coming in as amateurs, yes, i would take duncan and he's had the *slightly* better career, even without no. 5. that said, i do know people are obsessed with inequalities (5>4 or 5>1 and 6>5 (c) JORN) and that, for some, it's an even closer debate going either way than it is for me.

by the way is there any furniture left in tact at your parents' house after kobe's injury?

And you will know MY JACKET IS GOLD when I lay my vengeance upon thee.

  

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LA2Philly
Member since Oct 18th 2004
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73. "Um, I just acknowledged MM's TD argument right above your reply"
In response to Reply # 33
Sun Apr-14-13 06:50 PM by LA2Philly

  

          

It's a definite argument based on actual accomplishments...don't see a point for hypothetical ones.

I was at the game so my parent's stuff is fine lol....but in seriousness, I only get mad out when the team is playing with no effort or playing stupid. Injuries are what they are...it's sad and frustrating but I know all too well that it's a risk every athlete takes. Kobe has been fortunate to escape any major leg injuries so far, and that probability was only increasing as he got older + mins played = higher risk.

---------------------------------
<--The drought is over

"have fun reveling in your pettiness tho" (C) Dula summing up 98% of OKS

"I didnt finish a damn thing...matter of fact I jerked off after she left."
-Kobe speaking to investigators

L D E A

  

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ConcreteCharlie
Member since Nov 21st 2002
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95. "how much of a role do you really think the minutes played?"
In response to Reply # 73


  

          

heard some dude on 710 today talking about how it really wasn't a strong correlation but i figure you are a good dude to ask.

comparing kobe and duncan now, eh, been done plenty and people have their stances. some minds will never change either way if duncan wins three more or kobe has some christ-like comeback.

this is more for gauging the fence sitters. and the entertainment.

And you will know MY JACKET IS GOLD when I lay my vengeance upon thee.

  

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LA2Philly
Member since Oct 18th 2004
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Mon Apr-15-13 01:33 AM

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100. "RE: how much of a role do you really think the minutes played?"
In response to Reply # 95


  

          

>heard some dude on 710 today talking about how it really
>wasn't a strong correlation but i figure you are a good dude
>to ask.

When I refer to mins played, I'm talking about increased chances to get hurt. You already have a higher tendency for injury as you age and then combined with more chances of getting hurt = higher chance of getting hurt

>this is more for gauging the fence sitters. and the
>entertainment.

Fair enough but winning another ring is a huge challenge.

---------------------------------
<--The drought is over

"have fun reveling in your pettiness tho" (C) Dula summing up 98% of OKS

"I didnt finish a damn thing...matter of fact I jerked off after she left."
-Kobe speaking to investigators

L D E A

  

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Mignight Maruder
Member since Nov 30th 2003
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Sun Apr-14-13 05:22 PM

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67. "I get what you're saying, but I honestly don't see it as hate..."
In response to Reply # 31


  

          

And I haven't seen anybody posting anything that negative about Kobe in this post.

Personally, I think Duncan is the more accomplished, better, whatever you want to label it player, and I will argue it with passion. I have no ill will towards Kobe at all.

Personally I think the hypothetical is unwarranted, but I do sort of see CC's point regarding people's rigid system of using #s to rank players. Neither the Spurs nor the Lakers are winning anything this year. Sure, Duncan has a chance with the Spurs, but I doubt much happens there just like I'd seriously doubt the Lakers would do much in the postseason this year with Kobe.

  

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vee-lover
Member since Jul 30th 2007
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Sun Apr-14-13 12:54 PM

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24. "If he wins no. 5, I'd say so but as their respective careers stands"
In response to Reply # 0
Sun Apr-14-13 01:06 PM by vee-lover

  

          

currently, I think it's debatable...and you could certainly argue Duncan has had the better overall career btw the two

Duncan
-4x champion
-2x MVP
-3x Finals MVP
-ROY
-considered by most to be the greatest player at his position
-Definitely a better teammate than Bean
-Was the key player on all his championship teams (had to go thru Shaq & Bean oftentimes to get to the finals)
-more impactful on the defensive side of the ball

Kobe
-5th all time leading scorer/30,000 pt club
-1 MVP
-5x champion
-2x finals MVP
-considered the 2nd greatest 2 guard in league history
-1 MVP
-2 Gold Medals
-not considered a good teammate to say the least/a ball hog/ran the g.o.a.t. coach out of town

The reason why the belief that Kobe has had a better career than Duncan is because he's accomplished what he has while playing for the Lakers, the most high profile team in the NBA and Duncan, on the other hand, has
quietly done what he has while playing for probably the *least* profile team in the league.

grassrootsphilosopher

  

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IkeMoses
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27. "if Dunc gets a chip this year, all it proves is"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

Pop's a better coach than Kobe is.

-30-
You know it's drama, but it sound real good.

  

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LA2Philly
Member since Oct 18th 2004
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28. "LOL. Now we're using hypotheticals for arguments. Pathetic CC"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

---------------------------------
<--The drought is over

"have fun reveling in your pettiness tho" (C) Dula summing up 98% of OKS

"I didnt finish a damn thing...matter of fact I jerked off after she left."
-Kobe speaking to investigators

L D E A

  

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ConcreteCharlie
Member since Nov 21st 2002
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36. "Cmon man, I know your flow is heavy but take a Midol, sister."
In response to Reply # 28
Sun Apr-14-13 03:06 PM by ConcreteCharlie

  

          

Like this is the first time someone has said "IF ________________, then what will you think?"

For example, "If AI gets traded to ___________, you're thinking what round?" Made by a Laker fan.

For example "With the Clippers streak, they have to be at least thinking WCF, right?" cysed relentlessly by many Laker fans.

There have been many about Rose, about LeBron, about Durant, etc. Fix your fucking face, dude, you are WAY too sensitive. If I had put a "Duncan already better option," you guys would have been shouting "HATER!" from rooftops. I didn't bother figuring people would say that if they felt it.

I tried to do this in a pretty normal way that happens here EVERY DAY, including some tact toward you guys (always a mistake) and a little attempt at humor.

I know times are tough right now but don't take it out on me.

And you will know MY JACKET IS GOLD when I lay my vengeance upon thee.

  

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COOLEHMAGAZINE
Member since May 22nd 2007
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Sun Apr-14-13 05:01 PM

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63. "RE: Cmon man, I know your flow is heavy but take a Midol, sister."
In response to Reply # 36


          

>Like this is the first time someone has said "IF
>________________, then what will you think?"
>
>For example, "If AI gets traded to ___________, you're
>thinking what round?" Made by a Laker fan.
>
>For example "With the Clippers streak, they have to be at
>least thinking WCF, right?" cysed relentlessly by many Laker
>fans.
>
>There have been many about Rose, about LeBron, about Durant,
>etc. Fix your fucking face, dude, you are WAY too sensitive.
>If I had put a "Duncan already better option," you guys would
>have been shouting "HATER!" from rooftops. I didn't bother
>figuring people would say that if they felt it.
>
>I tried to do this in a pretty normal way that happens here
>EVERY DAY, including some tact toward you guys (always a
>mistake) and a little attempt at humor.
>
>I know times are tough right now but don't take it out on me.


These guys are fucking lunatics.

HOW DARE YOU ASK A TOTALLY REASONABLY HYPOTHETICAL QUESTION ABOUT TWO FIRST BALLOT HOF'S?!?!?!?!?!?!?!??!

I'm from the lost black tribe of Israel, the Yos

http://coolehmag.com/frontEnd/

  

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LA2Philly
Member since Oct 18th 2004
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74. "Totally. Such lunacy to want arguments to be based on actual merit "
In response to Reply # 63


  

          

Rather than hypothetical accomplishments

---------------------------------
<--The drought is over

"have fun reveling in your pettiness tho" (C) Dula summing up 98% of OKS

"I didnt finish a damn thing...matter of fact I jerked off after she left."
-Kobe speaking to investigators

L D E A

  

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ConcreteCharlie
Member since Nov 21st 2002
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96. "It's not some parallel universe, they have the top fucking seed!"
In response to Reply # 74


  

          

How many "If LeBron doesn't win this year ..." threads did we have? How many "If Kobe does/doesn't win with another roster" threads did we have? And those were projecting months if not years in advance sometimes.

Touchy, very touchy.

And you will know MY JACKET IS GOLD when I lay my vengeance upon thee.

  

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LA2Philly
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104. "They've been the 2 seed since early last week, 5-6 in their last 11"
In response to Reply # 96
Mon Apr-15-13 01:45 AM by LA2Philly

  

          

They have been high seeds the last 2 seasons, didn't really work out did it. Winning another championship for this Spurs team is a huge challenge and unlikely, hence it's a huge hypothetical...so much so that I don't see the point of even asking the original question you posed.

This same type of post came up in the playoffs last season (authored by Bomb I believe) when the Spurs won the first 2 vs OKC in the WCF (and that team was better than this year's iteration)...and I didn't utter a peep because it was a reasonable what-if at that point.

---------------------------------
<--The drought is over

"have fun reveling in your pettiness tho" (C) Dula summing up 98% of OKS

"I didnt finish a damn thing...matter of fact I jerked off after she left."
-Kobe speaking to investigators

L D E A

  

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ConcreteCharlie
Member since Nov 21st 2002
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109. "you look at maybe two teams believed to be ahead of them"
In response to Reply # 104
Mon Apr-15-13 04:00 AM by ConcreteCharlie

  

          

in the entire nba and that have better records

i think they are much better equipped to handle okc this season. i would also not call making the conference finals last season "not working out."

i kind of doubt they win (still think miami will repeat), but it's hardly inconceivable or something that should be called out as "a huge challenge."

And you will know MY JACKET IS GOLD when I lay my vengeance upon thee.

  

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LA2Philly
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72. "I've never done any of what you said so miss me w all that"
In response to Reply # 36


  

          

If you look above, in regards to Midnight, I said I have no problem with a Duncan argument based on actual accomplishments. Trying to create arguments based on unknown outcomes is stupid and pointless. I don't see the point of it when it comes to any player, including this one, and that's why I never get involved in individual player debates. What I will get involved in is when someone, like in this case, is using what-ifs. Completely pointless.

---------------------------------
<--The drought is over

"have fun reveling in your pettiness tho" (C) Dula summing up 98% of OKS

"I didnt finish a damn thing...matter of fact I jerked off after she left."
-Kobe speaking to investigators

L D E A

  

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mistermaxxx08
Member since Dec 31st 2010
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30. "Duncan already better period"
In response to Reply # 0


          

and i said back then as i do now only Shaq was better in the 00 decade.

Kobe ain't seeing no Timmy D. duncan is more versatile and does so many things at a high level.

you put dwight howard with duncan or gasol and the spurs are going to the finals at least not be a lucky 8th seed victim.

duncan been badd since day one

and duncan still going to score almost 25k with rebounds, hardware,etc... and stay cool matter of fact right now duncan is in the 7 names argument for mvp this year as we speak,he still badd

mistermaxxx R.Kelly, Michael Jackson,Stevie wonder,Rick James,Marvin Gaye,El Debarge, Barry WHite Lionel RIchie,Isleys EWF,Lady T.,Kid creole and coconuts,the crusaders,kc sunshine band,bee gees,jW,sd,NE,JB

Miami Heat, New York Yankees,buffalo bills

  

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Lach
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40. "seriously. And the way some folk make it seem..."
In response to Reply # 30


  

          

it's like Kobe guided the Lakers to that 3 peat as if Shaq is an afterthought. Especially with the younger dudes.

  

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mistermaxxx08
Member since Dec 31st 2010
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47. "because Kobe got annointed early on as the next Jordan"
In response to Reply # 40


          

and i think back to what walt Clyde Frazier said of how made for tv that Kobe Bryant was.

yeah man these cats forget about the air balls in utah.

forget that when Phil Jackson took over he told the team Shaq was the captain and everything goes through him.

nobody calls Kobe out on tanking in the finals against the pistons and just shooting to be shooting and not feeding Shaq all because he wanted to be the man.

Duncan played with a great player in David Robinson and then ehnanced his game even more.

back then Kobe was along for the ride. nobody ever said Duncan was riding on David Robinson's back.

IMO Duncan been a better money time player in the post season than Kobe as well. i mean he filled a whole stat sheet.

mistermaxxx R.Kelly, Michael Jackson,Stevie wonder,Rick James,Marvin Gaye,El Debarge, Barry WHite Lionel RIchie,Isleys EWF,Lady T.,Kid creole and coconuts,the crusaders,kc sunshine band,bee gees,jW,sd,NE,JB

Miami Heat, New York Yankees,buffalo bills

  

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ConcreteCharlie
Member since Nov 21st 2002
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51. "i mean, so did harold minor, kobe made it a discussion kinda sorta"
In response to Reply # 47


  

          

but i do think youre getting at something important and so was thatruth earlier in his usual hamfisted manner, kobe is certainly more highlight tape friendly and "sexier" from a marketing standpoint.

And you will know MY JACKET IS GOLD when I lay my vengeance upon thee.

  

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mistermaxxx08
Member since Dec 31st 2010
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56. "well Kobe, talked and had the mannerisms, also he played"
In response to Reply # 51


          

and related to europe. he was a worldy cat and David Stern's NBA had the best of all worlds with marketing Kobe Bryant.

Kobe was the "Fresh prince of Bell air", with a ability to speak different languages and the global push was already in full effect.


then you add in playing in La and bringing in Phil Jackson,etc.. and everything fell into place. problem i have til this day is that kobe settled as accepting that role and while being one of the Greatest players ever, he never even tried to escape that tag and that's why i appreciate Lebron James even more because he keeps evolving and doing things without that kind of clique to be accepted as this next version of this or that.

Kobe still acting

mistermaxxx R.Kelly, Michael Jackson,Stevie wonder,Rick James,Marvin Gaye,El Debarge, Barry WHite Lionel RIchie,Isleys EWF,Lady T.,Kid creole and coconuts,the crusaders,kc sunshine band,bee gees,jW,sd,NE,JB

Miami Heat, New York Yankees,buffalo bills

  

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ThaTruth
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57. "lol"
In response to Reply # 56


  

          

  

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Dr Claw
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61. "oh, PLEASE... he isn't the only one to get that anointment"
In response to Reply # 47


  

          

that's the problem...

  

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mistermaxxx08
Member since Dec 31st 2010
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68. "who else did Walt Clyde Frazier call out for being"
In response to Reply # 61


          

a made for tv star or after school special player?

kobe talked, mannerisms, etc.. off of jordan, straight up if you didn't see the laker jersey on him you'd think it was a real life " be like mike" film in 2d.

bow wow ain't got nothing on kobe trying to be like mike

mistermaxxx R.Kelly, Michael Jackson,Stevie wonder,Rick James,Marvin Gaye,El Debarge, Barry WHite Lionel RIchie,Isleys EWF,Lady T.,Kid creole and coconuts,the crusaders,kc sunshine band,bee gees,jW,sd,NE,JB

Miami Heat, New York Yankees,buffalo bills

  

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ThaTruth
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69. "Right, Kobe was just the only one that came close to living up to it"
In response to Reply # 61


  

          

  

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Cold Truth
Member since Jan 28th 2004
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85. "Why are you trying to have a sensible conversation with maxx? "
In response to Reply # 61


  

          

  

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Dr Claw
Member since Jun 25th 2003
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117. "I'm holding the mirror up to the BS. "
In response to Reply # 85


  

          

frontrunning fans who either 1) bought into the Kobe = New Jordan BS or 2) Kobe vs. You Know Who manufactured rivalry (passive-aggressive anti-Laker sentiment/Kobe as "New Jordan" backlash) have no room to be talking about Kobe being "anointed".

He ain't ask for that shit, and IMO... as far as preeminent NBA stars are concerned, he's the most interesting to me since Shaq. He SHOULD have his own story independent of Jordan, as Shaq and others pre-Jordan do, but unfortunately, everything is seen through those goddamned Limburger Lenses.

  

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mistermaxxx08
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180. "if you got two good ears you good hear him talking like him"
In response to Reply # 117


          

having the same mannerisms. Kobe Bryant when he first entered the league you almost thought he was Goverment experiement in how to be like Mike.

stevie wonder can see how Kobe bit Jordan hard.

still bites him hard and its a shame at this stage of his career Kobe still is missing an idenity and not Black Mumbia number 5 mess either.

mistermaxxx R.Kelly, Michael Jackson,Stevie wonder,Rick James,Marvin Gaye,El Debarge, Barry WHite Lionel RIchie,Isleys EWF,Lady T.,Kid creole and coconuts,the crusaders,kc sunshine band,bee gees,jW,sd,NE,JB

Miami Heat, New York Yankees,buffalo bills

  

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rob
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58. "http://i3.hoopchina.com.cn/blogfile/201010/16/128723838750707.jpg"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

http://i3.hoopchina.com.cn/blogfile/201010/16/128723838750707.jpg

  

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COOLEHMAGAZINE
Member since May 22nd 2007
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Sun Apr-14-13 05:08 PM

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65. "RE: If Duncan gets #5, his career>Kobe's, or no?"
In response to Reply # 0


          

It's already a great debate without a 5th ring.

I'm from the lost black tribe of Israel, the Yos

http://coolehmag.com/frontEnd/

  

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LA2Philly
Member since Oct 18th 2004
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75. "Agreed"
In response to Reply # 65


  

          

>It's already a great debate without a 5th ring.

---------------------------------
<--The drought is over

"have fun reveling in your pettiness tho" (C) Dula summing up 98% of OKS

"I didnt finish a damn thing...matter of fact I jerked off after she left."
-Kobe speaking to investigators

L D E A

  

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LBs Finest
Member since Sep 28th 2005
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Sun Apr-14-13 06:52 PM

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76. "too depressed to partake in this discussion"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

_________________________

  

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Kira
Member since Nov 14th 2004
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Sun Apr-14-13 11:18 PM

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82. "No, but Duncan has had a far better career than KG"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

Since we hating just to hate, aka that Philly shit, Derek Fisher had a more rewarding career than AI. I can break this down in-depth for you niggas if y'all want it.

Steve Nash too.

Vince, Pierce and Ray the only guards still standing from GOAT Kobe's era.

You Kobe stans making 6 posts per week about the GOAT are officially offered citizenship into Kobestani. All you have to do is donate your throwback Iverson jerseys to Applebee's waitresses.

No empathy for white misery (c) BDot

"root for everybody black haters say that's crazy, wow..."

  

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mistermaxxx08
Member since Dec 31st 2010
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83. "only Shaq was in Duncan's way period"
In response to Reply # 82


          

anybody could have rode sidekick when Shaq was Shaq.

Duncan showed you how to play with a Superstar and with two upstarts in Parker and Ginobli.

as Great as Kobe is also as Lucky as he is and he knows it

mistermaxxx R.Kelly, Michael Jackson,Stevie wonder,Rick James,Marvin Gaye,El Debarge, Barry WHite Lionel RIchie,Isleys EWF,Lady T.,Kid creole and coconuts,the crusaders,kc sunshine band,bee gees,jW,sd,NE,JB

Miami Heat, New York Yankees,buffalo bills

  

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Kira
Member since Nov 14th 2004
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86. "BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA"
In response to Reply # 83


  

          

>anybody could have rode sidekick when Shaq was Shaq.
>

Kobe was more of a 1A than a sidekick so FOH. AI couldn't do it that's for damn sure.

If that was the case then how come Kobe has more rings than Shaq?

Anybody could have rode sidekick when Pippen was Pippen, more on that later.



>as Great as Kobe is also as Lucky as he is and he knows it

You know who's really lucky? Michael Jordan is really lucky. If not for Scottie and Phil , MJ would be an overrated gunner who's an incredibly shitty teammate. Scottie did get farther without Mike than Mike did without Scottie. Scottie Stayed relevant longer too.

No empathy for white misery (c) BDot

"root for everybody black haters say that's crazy, wow..."

  

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mistermaxxx08
Member since Dec 31st 2010
16076 posts
Mon Apr-15-13 12:49 AM

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90. "are you on kobe's payroll?"
In response to Reply # 86


          

i mean you made my sides hurt. rings don't tell the whole story however would kobe have more without pau gasol? before they got pau kobe was crying like Todd 1 after he got dropped Mtv jams. begging to leave la if they didn't bring him some help.

Shaq was the leader during the 3 peat and the 4th finals they went to period. ain't like Kobe was going to lead D fish, fox, and crew to no jewelry.

look scottie pippen was versatile however he couldn't carry jordan's skull cap.

pip couldn't score enough and he choked. had the blazers beat the lakers back in 2000 and at least gotten to the finals then you might have a point. however Scottie played the Dean Martin role to Jordan's Sinatra or in soul world Pippen was Jermaine to Jordan's Michael Jackson don't get it twisted.

Phil Jackson ain't rolling with jewelry on both fingers if he had to depend on pippen and kobe

kobe loves your joy, however he knows what time it is

mistermaxxx R.Kelly, Michael Jackson,Stevie wonder,Rick James,Marvin Gaye,El Debarge, Barry WHite Lionel RIchie,Isleys EWF,Lady T.,Kid creole and coconuts,the crusaders,kc sunshine band,bee gees,jW,sd,NE,JB

Miami Heat, New York Yankees,buffalo bills

  

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Kira
Member since Nov 14th 2004
28154 posts
Mon Apr-15-13 01:04 AM

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94. "Do you wipe down the young woman Kells pisses on?"
In response to Reply # 90


  

          

>i mean you made my sides hurt. rings don't tell the whole
>story however would kobe have more without pau gasol?
>before they got pau kobe was crying like Todd 1 after he got
>dropped Mtv jams. begging to leave la if they didn't bring
>him some help.

Pau couldn't win a playoff game yet alone a series without GOAT.
>
>Shaq was the leader during the 3 peat and the 4th finals they
>went to period. ain't like Kobe was going to lead D fish,
>fox, and crew to no jewelry.

Nope! They were co-leaders. Kobe did lead Derek Fisher and crew to a chip... twice.

>
>look scottie pippen was versatile however he couldn't carry
>jordan's skull cap.

Jordan couldn't win a chip without Scottie. HOW DAREYOU SAY SCOTTIE WAS A BUM. My point still stands.
>
>pip couldn't score enough and he choked. had the blazers
>beat the lakers back in 2000 and at least gotten to the
>finals then you might have a point. however Scottie played
>the Dean Martin role to Jordan's Sinatra or in soul world
>Pippen was Jermaine to Jordan's Michael Jackson don't get it
>twisted.

Scottie was a cog in two good to great teams after Jordan. Jordan retired on the Wizards.
>
>Phil Jackson ain't rolling with jewelry on both fingers if he
>had to depend on pippen and kobe

Dude he did have to depend on Kobe and look where that got him. Mm hmm (c) Basa *shines those laker rings Kobe GOAT'd himself too*
>
>kobe loves your joy, however he knows what time it is

If Kobe never plays he's still the GOAT. Does R.Kelly send you publishing checks for the amount of cum guzzling you do on his behalf?

No empathy for white misery (c) BDot

"root for everybody black haters say that's crazy, wow..."

  

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mistermaxxx08
Member since Dec 31st 2010
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Mon Apr-15-13 01:32 AM

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99. "well aren't you a colorful character all set for a prime time BET comi..."
In response to Reply # 94


          

>>i mean you made my sides hurt. rings don't tell the whole
>>story however would kobe have more without pau gasol?
>>before they got pau kobe was crying like Todd 1 after he got
>>dropped Mtv jams. begging to leave la if they didn't bring
>>him some help.
>
>Pau couldn't win a playoff game yet alone a series without
>GOAT.
>>
>>Shaq was the leader during the 3 peat and the 4th finals
>they
>>went to period. ain't like Kobe was going to lead D fish,
>>fox, and crew to no jewelry.
>
>Nope! They were co-leaders. Kobe did lead Derek Fisher and
>crew to a chip... twice.
>
>>
>>look scottie pippen was versatile however he couldn't
>carry
>>jordan's skull cap.
>
>Jordan couldn't win a chip without Scottie. HOW DAREYOU SAY
>SCOTTIE WAS A BUM. My point still stands.
>>
>>pip couldn't score enough and he choked. had the blazers
>>beat the lakers back in 2000 and at least gotten to the
>>finals then you might have a point. however Scottie played
>>the Dean Martin role to Jordan's Sinatra or in soul world
>>Pippen was Jermaine to Jordan's Michael Jackson don't get it
>>twisted.
>
>Scottie was a cog in two good to great teams after Jordan.
>Jordan retired on the Wizards.
>>
>>Phil Jackson ain't rolling with jewelry on both fingers if
>he
>>had to depend on pippen and kobe
>
>Dude he did have to depend on Kobe and look where that got
>him. Mm hmm (c) Basa *shines those laker rings Kobe GOAT'd
>himself too*
>>
>>kobe loves your joy, however he knows what time it is
>
>If Kobe never plays he's still the GOAT. Does R.Kelly send you
>publishing checks for the amount of cum guzzling you do on his
>behalf?
>



and yet Pau was the one who kept kobe from going to possibly the pistons when he was begging to be traded 1)


co leaders my pinky Shaq in his prime could have had anybody riding shotgun and 3 peated. Kobe wasn't in Shaq's league back then wake up. 2)

never called scottie a bum, however he wasn't in jordan's league. scottie will tell you Jordan was a standard and he was cool to be along for the ride 3)


scottie didn't do nothing in houston and he choked in portland. a cat who loved to stay on the side. great player however not a leader. 4)

phil won 6 with jordan as the leader and 3 with shaq as the leader. Kobe got his, however don't act like having the pieces in place didn't help 5)

kobe ain't even the greatest laker let alone goat. however i'll pay front row tickets to catch your live performance on comic view 6)

mistermaxxx R.Kelly, Michael Jackson,Stevie wonder,Rick James,Marvin Gaye,El Debarge, Barry WHite Lionel RIchie,Isleys EWF,Lady T.,Kid creole and coconuts,the crusaders,kc sunshine band,bee gees,jW,sd,NE,JB

Miami Heat, New York Yankees,buffalo bills

  

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FILF
Member since Jun 01st 2007
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Mon Apr-15-13 12:59 AM

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91. "Kobe was to Shaq what Wade is to Bron"
In response to Reply # 86


  

          

deal with it.

WHAT'S GOOD *****? What's REALLY good?!?!????!!! Ha HA!
http://40.media.tumblr.com/d8e2daf9f3f37244cd05436bcdf05973/tumblr_mt4qibKq4c1rgam01o1_1280.png

  

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Dr Claw
Member since Jun 25th 2003
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Mon Apr-15-13 09:25 AM

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115. "if that's true, than I don't wanna hear about Wade is better than Kobe"
In response to Reply # 91


  

          

because I know -some- of you niggas wanna do it/have done it

because Wade ain't won shit without a super-top-tier player (in fact, that first title is tainted, if not a carbon copy of that Laker team in spirit that failed to beat the Pistons). Kobe has done it TWICE.



  

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LegacyNS
Member since Jan 16th 2004
37956 posts
Mon Apr-15-13 09:36 AM

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119. "the only problem is both Wade & Kobe proved they could win a chip"
In response to Reply # 91
Mon Apr-15-13 09:38 AM by LegacyNS

  

          

as the #1 option.

Also... Kobe has a league MVP.
Shaq was to Wade what..... yeah.
Shaq NEVER went to 3 str8 NBA finals w/o Kobe but Kobe did it w/o Shaq.
Oh yeah.. Kobe still got more rings w/o Shaq than viceversa..


Translation: y'all mad..


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
<---- 5....
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dlgiritpmfo

=======================================
Occupy Big Government..

Fannie, Freddie dole out big bonuses
http://www.politico.com/news/stories/1011/67292.html

  

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ThaTruth
Charter member
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123. "Base..."
In response to Reply # 119


  

          

>as the #1 option.
>
>Also... Kobe has a league MVP.
>Shaq was to Wade what..... yeah.
>Shaq NEVER went to 3 str8 NBA finals w/o Kobe but Kobe did it
>w/o Shaq.
>Oh yeah.. Kobe still got more rings w/o Shaq than viceversa..
>
>
>Translation: y'all mad..

  

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FILF
Member since Jun 01st 2007
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Mon Apr-15-13 03:04 PM

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138. "Tell me how many playoff series Kobe won w/o Pau?"
In response to Reply # 123


  

          

The true MVP of those championship runs.....It's no coincidence that when Pau regressed, Bean couldn't even get past the 2nd round.

WHAT'S GOOD *****? What's REALLY good?!?!????!!! Ha HA!
http://40.media.tumblr.com/d8e2daf9f3f37244cd05436bcdf05973/tumblr_mt4qibKq4c1rgam01o1_1280.png

  

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LegacyNS
Member since Jan 16th 2004
37956 posts
Tue Apr-16-13 02:13 PM

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218. "Tell me how many playoff GAMES Pau won with Kobe.. lol"
In response to Reply # 138


  

          



~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
<---- 5....
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dlgiritpmfo

=======================================
Occupy Big Government..

Fannie, Freddie dole out big bonuses
http://www.politico.com/news/stories/1011/67292.html

  

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FILF
Member since Jun 01st 2007
20177 posts
Sun Jun-01-14 09:51 PM

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283. "Who the hell claimed Pau was the GOAT"
In response to Reply # 218


  

          

-When Pau gets bounced w/ Mike Miller as his wing-man, he's a loser.
-When Bean misses the post-season in his prime, he's the GOAT.

Something doesn't add up some how.....hummmmm.

Pau put Memphis on the map (they never made the post-season before Pau arrived) while Bean has been part of some of the worst Lakers teams in the history of the franchise.

If you are going to put Bean on the pedestal amongst the all-time greats while placing Pau amongst Shareef & 'em then they should be judge accordingly.

WHAT'S GOOD *****? What's REALLY good?!?!????!!! Ha HA!
http://40.media.tumblr.com/d8e2daf9f3f37244cd05436bcdf05973/tumblr_mt4qibKq4c1rgam01o1_1280.png

  

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ConcreteCharlie
Member since Nov 21st 2002
71175 posts
Mon Apr-15-13 01:08 AM

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97. "I wouldn't say "anybody" but there were a small handful of guys"
In response to Reply # 83


  

          

People laughed when I said Ray Allen, now they are the same people calling him a lock for the HOF. Intriguing.

And you will know MY JACKET IS GOLD when I lay my vengeance upon thee.

  

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mistermaxxx08
Member since Dec 31st 2010
16076 posts
Mon Apr-15-13 01:37 AM

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101. "Shaq during that 3 peat run could have won with Mookie BLaylock"
In response to Reply # 97


          

playing alongside him. i mean those dominant Shaq years ain't been seen since. he flipped the script completely.

i always dug Ray Allen and he just added to his game period.

man when you dominance like how Shaq was from 99-02 of course you could have put anybody along for the ride.

mistermaxxx R.Kelly, Michael Jackson,Stevie wonder,Rick James,Marvin Gaye,El Debarge, Barry WHite Lionel RIchie,Isleys EWF,Lady T.,Kid creole and coconuts,the crusaders,kc sunshine band,bee gees,jW,sd,NE,JB

Miami Heat, New York Yankees,buffalo bills

  

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FILF
Member since Jun 01st 2007
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107. "Let's not crown Shaq...dude NEVER played a championship like D"
In response to Reply # 101


  

          

He had folks thinking Mike Bibby could be the 2nd coming of Jerry West for a minute.

WHAT'S GOOD *****? What's REALLY good?!?!????!!! Ha HA!
http://40.media.tumblr.com/d8e2daf9f3f37244cd05436bcdf05973/tumblr_mt4qibKq4c1rgam01o1_1280.png

  

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ConcreteCharlie
Member since Nov 21st 2002
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121. "blazers and kings they beat woulda cakewalked to titles otherwise"
In response to Reply # 107


  

          

And you will know MY JACKET IS GOLD when I lay my vengeance upon thee.

  

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FILF
Member since Jun 01st 2007
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Mon Apr-15-13 02:39 PM

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133. "When Shaq had to check a big man......he got nutted on"
In response to Reply # 121


  

          

Dream/Elmo.........FOH w/ over-the-hill Sabonis/Brian Grant/Floppy Divac/Scott Pollard.

WHAT'S GOOD *****? What's REALLY good?!?!????!!! Ha HA!
http://40.media.tumblr.com/d8e2daf9f3f37244cd05436bcdf05973/tumblr_mt4qibKq4c1rgam01o1_1280.png

  

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mistermaxxx08
Member since Dec 31st 2010
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Tue Apr-16-13 12:54 AM

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191. "25-27 points a game 10-12 boards"
In response to Reply # 133


          

yeah ok the Shaq hate continues.

mistermaxxx R.Kelly, Michael Jackson,Stevie wonder,Rick James,Marvin Gaye,El Debarge, Barry WHite Lionel RIchie,Isleys EWF,Lady T.,Kid creole and coconuts,the crusaders,kc sunshine band,bee gees,jW,sd,NE,JB

Miami Heat, New York Yankees,buffalo bills

  

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ThaTruth
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232. "lol, EVERYBODY nutted on Elmo from Shaq to Amare to Z-Bo..."
In response to Reply # 133


  

          

to Dirk and others

  

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FILF
Member since Jun 01st 2007
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Tue Apr-16-13 10:36 PM

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234. "Elmo is 1000X better team defender than Shaq ever was......."
In response to Reply # 232


  

          

WHAT'S GOOD *****? What's REALLY good?!?!????!!! Ha HA!
http://40.media.tumblr.com/d8e2daf9f3f37244cd05436bcdf05973/tumblr_mt4qibKq4c1rgam01o1_1280.png

  

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Cold Truth
Member since Jan 28th 2004
40772 posts
Mon Apr-15-13 09:28 AM

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116. "LOL. I know you're trolling but LOL "
In response to Reply # 101


  

          

  

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LBs Finest
Member since Sep 28th 2005
19843 posts
Mon Apr-15-13 12:36 AM

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89. "LOL"
In response to Reply # 82


  

          

>You Kobe stans making 6 posts per week about the GOAT are
>officially offered citizenship into Kobestani. All you have to
>do is donate your throwback Iverson jerseys to Applebee's
>waitresses.

_________________________

  

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ThaTruth
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Mon Apr-15-13 06:31 AM

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111. "not according to this:"
In response to Reply # 82


  

          

http://a.espncdn.com/magazine/1224NBAHOB.pdf

  

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pretentious username
Member since Jun 18th 2010
11187 posts
Thu Apr-18-13 11:57 PM

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257. "^^^^^^^^^ EVERYONE MISSED THIS"
In response to Reply # 111


  

          

>http://a.espncdn.com/magazine/1224NBAHOB.pdf


he just used a bullshit metric to prove KG was better than Duncan, when it also lists Duncan as better than Kobe.


LOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOL

  

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FILF
Member since Jun 01st 2007
20177 posts
Mon Apr-15-13 01:28 AM

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98. "Hol' up.....y'all musta forgot Admiral nutted against Greg Foster in '98"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

The reason the Spurs lost against the Jazz in '98 was b/c Admiral was still the focal point of the offense and hadn't quite given rookie Tim the full administrative privilege. If Robinson was as good as some of you folks are stating, how do you explain losing 4-1 in the 2nd round against the aging Jazz when in retrospect he had the best sidekick at that time.

WHAT'S GOOD *****? What's REALLY good?!?!????!!! Ha HA!
http://40.media.tumblr.com/d8e2daf9f3f37244cd05436bcdf05973/tumblr_mt4qibKq4c1rgam01o1_1280.png

  

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mistermaxxx08
Member since Dec 31st 2010
16076 posts
Mon Apr-15-13 01:40 AM

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103. "Admiral was badd, however not duncan badd"
In response to Reply # 98


          

and while David Robinson was a Great player, the spurs didn't start thinking about no jewelry until timmy D took over the reigns

because david robinson bombed with dennis rodman. duncan was his last chance at a chip and he had to acknowledge that and he did.

mistermaxxx R.Kelly, Michael Jackson,Stevie wonder,Rick James,Marvin Gaye,El Debarge, Barry WHite Lionel RIchie,Isleys EWF,Lady T.,Kid creole and coconuts,the crusaders,kc sunshine band,bee gees,jW,sd,NE,JB

Miami Heat, New York Yankees,buffalo bills

  

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El_essence
Charter member
24899 posts
Mon Apr-15-13 01:38 AM

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102. "Just to be clear....Kobe with 2 games left in the season was having "
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

a better individual season than roughly 90% of the league including Duncan. In fact, Kobe has clearly been a better player since 06 or 07.

peace.

  

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mistermaxxx08
Member since Dec 31st 2010
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Mon Apr-15-13 01:45 AM

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105. "with a 8th seeded team, with a great center which is always said"
In response to Reply # 102


          

with a hall of famer point guard, with a hall of famer power forward and a once very good defender in metta world peace.

meanwhile duncan older and still balling and ginobli who i have always dug,however he gets injured every 2-3 weeks

tony parker got hurt and still trying to get it back. no borris diaw and this is a older team and yet they are running neck and neck with the thunder.

sorry barely 500 teams stacked with talent and 8th seed gets no mvp consideration.


mistermaxxx R.Kelly, Michael Jackson,Stevie wonder,Rick James,Marvin Gaye,El Debarge, Barry WHite Lionel RIchie,Isleys EWF,Lady T.,Kid creole and coconuts,the crusaders,kc sunshine band,bee gees,jW,sd,NE,JB

Miami Heat, New York Yankees,buffalo bills

  

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Nick Has a Problem...Seriously
Member since Dec 25th 2010
16316 posts
Mon Apr-15-13 06:59 AM

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112. "Stacked with talent, Maxxx?"
In response to Reply # 105


  

          

A past his prime future hall of famer? I'll give you Kobe, D Howard even though he's just now getting healthy and Pau but where is all of this other stacked talent fam?

****************************************
Falcons, Braves, Bulldogs and Hawks

"Dude just seems like he's been chosen for some reason. Maybe he did a backspin for Oprah or something." micMajestic

http://www.discogs.com/user/buhloone

  

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Bombastic
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Mon Apr-15-13 01:24 PM

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124. "besides the three other Hall of Famers, where was his supporting cast?"
In response to Reply # 112


  

          

waaaah.

  

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Nick Has a Problem...Seriously
Member since Dec 25th 2010
16316 posts
Mon Apr-15-13 01:39 PM

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126. "y'all dudes are funny"
In response to Reply # 124


  

          

You have Howard who's just getting back into form after surgery, Pau been injured and Nash is 40 but y'all wanna act like Kobe got hall of famers in their prime. Like i said, y'all hate Kobe. It's cool fam.

****************************************
Falcons, Braves, Bulldogs and Hawks

"Dude just seems like he's been chosen for some reason. Maybe he did a backspin for Oprah or something." micMajestic

http://www.discogs.com/user/buhloone

  

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rob
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23155 posts
Mon Apr-15-13 02:56 PM

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135. "kobe was acting like he had hall of famers in their prime this summer"
In response to Reply # 126


  

          

reasonable people expected this...just like it's reasonable to expect this will never pan out because dudes are old and salary structure is a mess.

hate's a strong word....but there definitely mirroring of his ridiculousness.

  

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Bombastic
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88860 posts
Mon Apr-15-13 03:22 PM

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141. "dude, Howard played every game. Pau played just about any game"
In response to Reply # 126


  

          

that Nash wasn't healthy for & Nash playing has been reduced to a spot-up shooting role due to Kobe's style of play.

Kobe played every game until this week.

Let's stop pretending that this team didn't have expectations far above their actual results this year or pretend injuries are the sole or even main reason that is so.

Miss me with that disingenous bullshit, I actually watch this team regularly.

  

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ConcreteCharlie
Member since Nov 21st 2002
71175 posts
Tue Apr-16-13 01:02 AM

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194. "funny how laker fans ignored that while sweeping fig for a parade"
In response to Reply # 126


  

          

last summer.

And you will know MY JACKET IS GOLD when I lay my vengeance upon thee.

  

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mistermaxxx08
Member since Dec 31st 2010
16076 posts
Mon Apr-15-13 09:27 PM

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178. "this laker team was expected to be in the conversation with"
In response to Reply # 112


          

the Heat and Thunder, not fizzle and old as moldy dallas mavericks or fighting the Utah Jazz for 8th place.

on paper this laker team was expected to win a high 60 amount of games, not be lucky to win 45. big difference.

8th seed don't merit no MVP consideration this ain't little league where you get a ribbon as the other kids for participation.

mistermaxxx R.Kelly, Michael Jackson,Stevie wonder,Rick James,Marvin Gaye,El Debarge, Barry WHite Lionel RIchie,Isleys EWF,Lady T.,Kid creole and coconuts,the crusaders,kc sunshine band,bee gees,jW,sd,NE,JB

Miami Heat, New York Yankees,buffalo bills

  

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JAESCOTT777
Member since Feb 18th 2006
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Mon Apr-15-13 09:34 AM

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118. "stacked with talent? ....http://tinyurl.com/brnusss"
In response to Reply # 105
Mon Apr-15-13 09:34 AM by JAESCOTT777

  

          

http://tinyurl.com/brnusss

  

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Bombastic
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Mon Apr-15-13 01:26 PM

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125. "let's see: Top C/Top-5 Player, Top 3 PF, HOF PG + Kobe. Oh, right"
In response to Reply # 118


  

          

that team wasn't talented.

People really thought that team might have to fight to get an eight-seed.

You motherfuckers are really trying too hard now.

  

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Cold Truth
Member since Jan 28th 2004
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Mon Apr-15-13 01:41 PM

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128. "That looks great on paper. "
In response to Reply # 125


  

          

Let's not pretend injuries haven't plagued this team- and those very players- from start to finish, or that the primary acquisition wasn't playing himself back from from back surgery, which is no small issue.

The talent is certainly there and none of those guys are washed up and they still underperformed even when the injuries are accounted for.

Accounting for the injuries though? A 5-6 seed is the most reasonable projection. So while I don't buy the idea that theylacked sufficient talent to get the job done, the injuries sustained from top to bottom plus their centerpiece playing his way into shape while being out of sorts most of the year certainly shouldn't go unnoticed.

Was that injury potential an obvious risk of getting a guy coming off back surgery and a 38 year old point guard? Yes. So we rolled the dice on that and that worst case scenario played out to a significant degree.

There are definitely other issues at play and while the injuries are no Escape Goat for the struggle to get an 8 seed, the reasonable projection in light of those injuries isn't much higher.

  

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LegacyNS
Member since Jan 16th 2004
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Mon Apr-15-13 02:03 PM

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131. "The Lakers started 17-25 but they're 27-12 since (69% win %)"
In response to Reply # 128


  

          

I think it's safe to say if everyone is healthy all season they probably take less than half the season (42 games) to figure things out & probably win a few more of those early game especially against lesser opponents.

I could see them north of 50 wins and possibly more depending on how a more cohesive team would have played.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
<---- 5....
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dlgiritpmfo

=======================================
Occupy Big Government..

Fannie, Freddie dole out big bonuses
http://www.politico.com/news/stories/1011/67292.html

  

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FILF
Member since Jun 01st 2007
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Mon Apr-15-13 02:58 PM

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136. "except the Spurs are about to win 60 games despite injuries "
In response to Reply # 131


  

          

WHAT'S GOOD *****? What's REALLY good?!?!????!!! Ha HA!
http://40.media.tumblr.com/d8e2daf9f3f37244cd05436bcdf05973/tumblr_mt4qibKq4c1rgam01o1_1280.png

  

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LegacyNS
Member since Jan 16th 2004
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Mon Apr-15-13 03:02 PM

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137. "the Spurs core has been playing together for a decade.. lol"
In response to Reply # 136


  

          

and their coach has been there longer than that....

cmon man, don't be ridiculous.. the situations aren't remotely similar...


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
<---- 5....
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dlgiritpmfo

=======================================
Occupy Big Government..

Fannie, Freddie dole out big bonuses
http://www.politico.com/news/stories/1011/67292.html

  

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FILF
Member since Jun 01st 2007
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Mon Apr-15-13 03:13 PM

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139. "Championship core: Kobe/Pau/Artest = Tim/Tony/Manu"
In response to Reply # 137


  

          



WHAT'S GOOD *****? What's REALLY good?!?!????!!! Ha HA!
http://40.media.tumblr.com/d8e2daf9f3f37244cd05436bcdf05973/tumblr_mt4qibKq4c1rgam01o1_1280.png

  

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LegacyNS
Member since Jan 16th 2004
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Tue Apr-16-13 02:16 PM

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219. "haha - you fool.. what the hell is wrong with you?"
In response to Reply # 139


  

          

Championship core was Kobe, Pau & Bynum. Artest is interchangeable with Ariza not to mention we don't have the championship winning coach currently..

Just stop it.. .lol

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
<---- 5....
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dlgiritpmfo

=======================================
Occupy Big Government..

Fannie, Freddie dole out big bonuses
http://www.politico.com/news/stories/1011/67292.html

  

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FILF
Member since Jun 01st 2007
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Sun Jun-01-14 05:16 PM

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265. "They went to the Finals w/o Bynum "
In response to Reply # 219


  

          

>Championship core was Kobe, Pau & Bynum. Artest is
>interchangeable with Ariza not to mention we don't have the
>championship winning coach currently..
>
>Just stop it.. .lol

WHAT'S GOOD *****? What's REALLY good?!?!????!!! Ha HA!
http://40.media.tumblr.com/d8e2daf9f3f37244cd05436bcdf05973/tumblr_mt4qibKq4c1rgam01o1_1280.png

  

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El_essence
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Mon Apr-15-13 03:42 PM

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146. "lol not counting blake and hill missing time. the starting 5 has played"
In response to Reply # 128


  

          

less than 20 games the entire season. I'm not even arguing this team was going to win anything this year. But Bomb's bullshit is him trying to gas this season up to be some all time epic collapse that had nothing to do with injuries. The funny thing is they could still fuck around and make the playoffs.

  

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Cold Truth
Member since Jan 28th 2004
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Mon Apr-15-13 04:11 PM

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152. "Yup. I'd like to see all the teams in history with seasons like this"
In response to Reply # 146


  

          

I'd like to see all the teams in history that had their biggest addition play himself back into shape from a back injury, this many injuries, had their starting 5 play so few games together, went through 2 coaches, and had their owner die en route to an NBA Finals or even a conference finals. How many teams have gone through that and won 55 games? 50?

Hell.... how many teams have actually gone through all that *period*?

  

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Bombastic
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Mon Apr-15-13 05:32 PM

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163. "BWHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAAAA.......WAAAAAAAAAH"
In response to Reply # 152


  

          

>I'd like to see all the teams in history that had their
>biggest addition play himself back into shape from a back
>injury, this many injuries, had their starting 5 play so few
>games together, went through 2 coaches, and had their owner
>die en route to an NBA Finals or even a conference finals. How
>many teams have gone through that and won 55 games? 50?
>
>Hell.... how many teams have actually gone through all that
>*period*?

  

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Cold Truth
Member since Jan 28th 2004
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Mon Apr-15-13 05:51 PM

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167. "Clearly I'm crying about it and not presenting a reasonable perspective"
In response to Reply # 163


  

          

Everything I've said is factual and reasonable with no whining to be found. I tend to expect better from you than the FILF's and SPM's of the board than to resort to bullshit like this, but we all have our moments I guess.

  

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Bombastic
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Mon Apr-15-13 05:59 PM

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169. "all I'm sayin is injuries did not deprive this team a chance to be great"
In response to Reply # 167


  

          

or even very good.

The reality is that they were likely not going to be that regardless & there's plenty of evidence to support that claim (including the fact that their two best players were there for the whole season).

They were thin due to the way they were structured, brittle for the same reasons, horrible defensively & didn't ever find a way to play in a way that served any of their best players' strengths offensively except Pau in the Brown period & Kobe in the rest of it.

I don't give this group points for persevering or trying, this is the Lakers.

This season was a shitshow, regardless of whether they snuck past the Jazz at the end.

  

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Cold Truth
Member since Jan 28th 2004
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Mon Apr-15-13 06:28 PM

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174. "RE: all I'm sayin is injuries did not deprive this team a chance to be g..."
In response to Reply # 169


  

          

I mean, I said they underperformed even in the face of these injuries.

I just think the bar is considerably lower in light of the things that have taken place. Based on what's happened, they could still have been a 6 seed, perhaps even 5 is a reasonable goal.

On paper, a 1-2 seed and 60+ wins is the standard, but adding everything else into the equation changes that projection. If you were to say, "they have all these guys but here's all the shit that's going to happen" going into the season, NOBODY in their right mind without an agenda would say 60+ and a 1-2 seed. They'd say 50 and a 6 seed, possibly 5.

I've been as vocal as anyone about they're own role in this, especially Kobe during a particularly irritating stretch despite his otherwise stellar season. To say that I'm just a crybaby means you aren't really paying attention to what I'm saying or you're simply being unreasonable.

>I don't give this group points for persevering or trying, this
>is the Lakers.

Yes, this is the Lakers. The overall standard is pretty damn clear and we've said it time and again: we're about titles. Rings. That's the standard.

When a season is THIS maligned it just is what it is. Kobe damn sure gets points for how he played for lik 85% of the season, especially near the end. IDGAF what the expectations were in the beginning, he played like a Champ damn near the entire season and it's hard to fault him in the face of it all. If ever there were a Lakers season that needed to be viewed in proper context, this is the one.

>This season was a shitshow, regardless of whether they snuck
>past the Jazz at the end.

Agreed. They still could have performed better and won more games in spite of what happened and I don't know how many times I have to say it to get that across. I just think the expectation changes considerably in light of how things went this year. That doesn't mean I find how it wound up acceptable, even if I do admire the way they never quit on themselves. Pau has played like his Championship self since he's been back. Still, it's a disapointing season that should have been better even with all that's happened. let's just not act like it's unreasonable to base expectations on how things went down as opposed to what names on paper suggest.

  

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Bombastic
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Mon Apr-15-13 06:33 PM

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176. "it's important for context to note my initial replies were to JAESCOTT"
In response to Reply # 174
Mon Apr-15-13 06:35 PM by Bombastic

  

          

& NickHasAProblem who laughed at the notion of this team possessing great talent.

It did, they just didn't put it together for reasons we've discsussed.

And yes, Kobe's season was amazing but in a sense the way it came about (with a total disregard for defense & a focus on him either shooting 30 times or being a pass-first-double-digit-dime-a-night-PG/facilitator) was actually embelatic of this team's flawed premise.

  

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Bombastic
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Mon Apr-15-13 05:27 PM

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162. "it aint bullshit, this team had 3 of those 4 guys on court at all times"
In response to Reply # 146
Mon Apr-15-13 05:33 PM by Bombastic

  

          

including the two most important (Kobe & Dwight) for basically the entire seaosn.

So again, pleas-pleas-PLEASE with that bullshit about Nash & Pau when the reality is both were basically underperforming, misused & blamed while they were actually playing.

Don't bring up Ron, don't cyse Jordan Hill, just own this shit.

Saying 'funny thing is they could still make the playoffs' is the FUNNY THING to me.......like saying *despite all those incredible hardships*, meanwhile the objective was originally a 60+-win finals-appearance or title & now we're gonna give em points for getting to 44 fucking wins.

They have been an abject flop & failure long before this weekend, regardless of the excuse-building & expectation-managing folks have been doing since the beginning of this shitty season.

Just stop it, all of you. It's disgusting.

  

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Cold Truth
Member since Jan 28th 2004
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Mon Apr-15-13 06:11 PM

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171. "You're right, this hasn't been a timultuous season from jump. "
In response to Reply # 162


  

          

Dwight has been in his 08 form all season long with no lingering back issues and was clearly dominant on both ends prior to the all star break.

Nash didnt miss significant time with Darius Morris and Jodie Meeks taking his place. Those guys are just as good.

Jerry didn't die.

Jordan Hill wasn't a quality backup and wasn't lost for the season? Nobody is cysing him like he's Dwight or some shit, so stop pretending we are, but acting like he wasn't a key bench component on both ends to back up both starters and such a loss is inconsequential is flat out dishonest- especially when both of those starters missed time. Having a quality backup is important when one of them is still rehabbing his back and the other is out.

Disgusting? Please with the so-called pleas. You can't cite the incredible expectations on this team and then downplay every single event that's occured and pretend that there is no realistic impact on those expectations.

They were expected to win 60 games with that starting 5! Wait, they played a grand total of twenty games all year? SO WHAT, they had TWO of that HOF team all year! So when 2 of the 4 guys that were expected to win 60 games miss significant time and only played 20 games together, that 60 game projection doesn't change? In what world does that make any sense? Only on some agenda shit.

Wait, one of the two that was there most of the year was coming off back surgery and clearly wasn't himself until the All Star break? So what! No consequence, even if his primary backups are out for the year!

You can downplay this season all you want. They still underperformed, but acting as though all these injuries, coaching change, a beloved owner dying, and Dwight rehabbing on company time aren't factors that reshapped any realistic expectation is so dishonest it barely deserves to be taken seriously.

They still underperformed in light of these hardships, just not to the degree you'd like us all to believe. 5-6 seed is reasonable in light of all this, and holding them to a 60 game standard when most of what could have went wrong actually did says you're letting your hatred for this team and it's fans overtalk a level head. You're better than that, or so I thought.

  

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Bombastic
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Mon Apr-15-13 06:18 PM

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173. "RE: You're right, this hasn't been a timultuous season from jump. "
In response to Reply # 171


  

          

>Dwight has been in his 08 form all season long with no
>lingering back issues and was clearly dominant on both ends
>prior to the all star break.
>
he was still playing, as someone who has Andrew Bynum....I can tell you that matters.

>Nash didnt miss significant time with Darius Morris and Jodie
>Meeks taking his place. Those guys are just as good.
>
Nash has been misused even while there to the point where it's almost a 'why bother having Steve Nash' because it's been almost as effective having Blake there.

>Jerry didn't die.
>
c'mon, if anything that helped this team focus, Dwight particularly.

>Jordan Hill wasn't a quality backup and wasn't lost for the
>season?
and missing him brought about Clark.

Nobody is cysing him like he's Dwight or some shit, so
>stop pretending we are, but acting like he wasn't a key bench
>component on both ends to back up both starters and such a
>loss is inconsequential is flat out dishonest- especially when
>both of those starters missed time. Having a quality backup is
>important when one of them is still rehabbing his back and the
>other is out.
>
>Disgusting? Please with the so-called pleas. You can't cite
>the incredible expectations on this team and then downplay
>every single event that's occured and pretend that there is no
>realistic impact on those expectations.
>
>They were expected to win 60 games with that starting 5! Wait,
>they played a grand total of twenty games all year? SO WHAT,
>they had TWO of that HOF team all year! So when 2 of the 4
>guys that were expected to win 60 games miss significant time
>and only played 20 games together, that 60 game projection
>doesn't change? In what world does that make any sense? Only
>on some agenda shit.
>
>Wait, one of the two that was there most of the year was
>coming off back surgery and clearly wasn't himself until the
>All Star break? So what! No consequence, even if his primary
>backups are out for the year!
>
>You can downplay this season all you want. They still
>underperformed, but acting as though all these injuries,
>coaching change, a beloved owner dying, and Dwight rehabbing
>on company time aren't factors that reshapped any realistic
>expectation is so dishonest it barely deserves to be taken
>seriously.
>
didn't say it didn't factor in, we just disagree about the level to which it did.

>They still underperformed in light of these hardships, just
>not to the degree you'd like us all to believe. 5-6 seed is
>reasonable in light of all this, and holding them to a 60 game
>standard when most of what could have went wrong actually did
>says you're letting your hatred for this team and it's fans
>overtalk a level head. You're better than that, or so I
>thought.

I'm not holding them to any standard but the one they've had in place historically, I don't find this season to be a success on any level despite what they had to deal with....that's my only point.

With what they had, they should have a winning percentage better than the 2011-12 Sixers even if Ron's chase for 72 & all that other stuff obviously was unrealistic.

  

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Cold Truth
Member since Jan 28th 2004
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Mon Apr-15-13 06:28 PM

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175. "That's all fair discourse."
In response to Reply # 173


  

          

  

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ConcreteCharlie
Member since Nov 21st 2002
71175 posts
Tue Apr-16-13 01:03 AM

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195. "exactly, other teams handled adversity better and even with all "
In response to Reply # 173


  

          

the BS, they should not have been scraping the bottom trying to get into the playoffs.

And you will know MY JACKET IS GOLD when I lay my vengeance upon thee.

  

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El_essence
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Mon Apr-15-13 11:02 PM

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182. "You're the only person on the planet truly believing this bullshit"
In response to Reply # 162


  

          

It's not even worth going back and forth on it. I know you've been trying to gas the expectation levels up from the beginning of the season. I've gone ahead and let you cook with it all season. Might as well let you continue. You know you don't even believe the bullshit you saying though.

  

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Bombastic
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Mon Apr-15-13 11:16 PM

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184. "cook all season? shit, I've been easy on these cats, really."
In response to Reply # 182


  

          

I don't even know what you're rambling about there.

The season was a mess & the team underperformed, regardless of injury.

Bottom line.

  

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El_essence
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Tue Apr-16-13 12:55 AM

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192. "lol k."
In response to Reply # 184


  

          

.

  

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FILF
Member since Jun 01st 2007
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Mon Apr-15-13 02:39 AM

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106. "Tim has a higher efficiency rating & leads the league in defensive ratin..."
In response to Reply # 102


  

          

WHAT'S GOOD *****? What's REALLY good?!?!????!!! Ha HA!
http://40.media.tumblr.com/d8e2daf9f3f37244cd05436bcdf05973/tumblr_mt4qibKq4c1rgam01o1_1280.png

  

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ThaTruth
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Mon Apr-15-13 06:28 AM

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110. "lulz"
In response to Reply # 106


  

          

  

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El_essence
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Mon Apr-15-13 03:37 PM

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144. "Kobe has a higher TS, same eFG, higher Off Rating, higher AST%"
In response to Reply # 106


  

          

and played 10 more games while playing with a bad ankle for a significant portion of it. stop it.

  

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FILF
Member since Jun 01st 2007
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Mon Apr-15-13 04:48 PM

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157. "Kobe has basically been a one way player all season long"
In response to Reply # 144


  

          

When a player doesn't have to expand energy on the defensive end, they are going to fair well on the offensive end vs. a legit 2 way player. LMAO @ bad ankles......Elmo has been winning chips & MVP w/o a torn meniscus since '00.

WHAT'S GOOD *****? What's REALLY good?!?!????!!! Ha HA!
http://40.media.tumblr.com/d8e2daf9f3f37244cd05436bcdf05973/tumblr_mt4qibKq4c1rgam01o1_1280.png

  

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El_essence
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Tue Apr-16-13 12:47 AM

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189. "RE: Kobe has basically been a one way player all season long"
In response to Reply # 157


  

          

>When a player doesn't have to expand energy on the defensive
>end, they are going to fair well on the offensive end vs. a
>legit 2 way player.

numbers don't lie. you're also going to fair well statistically with a smaller sample size. like not playing 10+ games when perfectly healthy.

LMAO @ bad ankles......Elmo has been
>winning chips & MVP w/o a torn meniscus since '00.

http://media.tumblr.com/tumblr_llz5d0HYGe1qdia4g.gif

  

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FILF
Member since Jun 01st 2007
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Sun Jun-01-14 11:28 PM

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294. "2013-14: Bean 18 games played-->Results: Not top 10 shooting guard "
In response to Reply # 189
Sun Jun-01-14 11:29 PM by FILF

  

          

>numbers don't lie. you're also going to fair well
>statistically with a smaller sample size.

WHAT'S GOOD *****? What's REALLY good?!?!????!!! Ha HA!
http://40.media.tumblr.com/d8e2daf9f3f37244cd05436bcdf05973/tumblr_mt4qibKq4c1rgam01o1_1280.png

  

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rob
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Mon Apr-15-13 03:18 AM

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108. "but it wasn't better than duncan this year. the desperation shows when y..."
In response to Reply # 102
Mon Apr-15-13 03:18 AM by rob

  

          

you lie

  

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El_essence
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Mon Apr-15-13 03:33 PM

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143. "lol http://bkref.com/tiny/Wb6Jr"
In response to Reply # 108


  

          

http://bkref.com/tiny/Wb6Jr

And this is despite playing 10 more games and playing injured for a large portion of the season.

  

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rob
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Mon Apr-15-13 05:24 PM

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161. "i'm not seeing better?"
In response to Reply # 143


  

          

they're different...one isn't better. like i didn't look at the numbers beforehand.

  

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El_essence
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Mon Apr-15-13 11:08 PM

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183. "10 less games is significant considering the numbers are virtually"
In response to Reply # 161


  

          

identical. I stand by what I said. Just because you disagree doesn't make what I said a lie.

  

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rob
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Mon Apr-15-13 11:26 PM

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185. "lol, duncan gonna actually have the chance to make up those 10"
In response to Reply # 183


  

          

so there's that. but congrats on those 10 games playing in .500 ball this winter.

  

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El_essence
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187. "lol wat?"
In response to Reply # 185


  

          

>so there's that. but congrats on those 10 games playing in
>.500 ball this winter.

You realize these are regular season numbers. Duncan ain't making up shit. But congrats on the Spurs flopping in the playoffs again ahead of time.

  

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rob
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Tue Apr-16-13 12:42 AM

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188. "it seems like a simple concept. ask kobe when he'd prefer them 10 games...."
In response to Reply # 187


  

          

  

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El_essence
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Tue Apr-16-13 12:53 AM

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190. "your concept is flawed. We're talking about the numbers. The numbers"
In response to Reply # 188


  

          

you said you looked at. Those numbers can't be made up. But whatever. When the spurs don't win again this year, I'll look forward to everyone here going out of their way to make their failure an indictment on Timmy's career like y'all do Kobe.

  

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rob
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Tue Apr-16-13 01:34 AM

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201. "lol, can't have it both ways"
In response to Reply # 190


  

          

he played too much. yall been talking about it for years now, complaining HARD for 2. it was inevitable that there would be an injury that he couldn't beat with offshore science and grit.

of course kobe is going to end up with better totals. he and his coaches don't know how to play any other way. duncan has better per minute numbers and we all know did stuff that doesn't show up in the stats we can all interpret (like when he actually helped on team defense).

and of course it is EXCEEDINGLY relevant that he will make much of the totals difference up in the only part of the season kobe, duncan, lakers fans, and spurs fans have any reason to care about.

you can hem and haw about the POSSIBLITY of the spurs not doing well in the post season, but most lakers fans had given up on kobe this post season months ago.

there probably wasn't a better way for kobe to play it, and respect to him for never quitting on this year. i ONLY responded cause some dumbasses are acting like kobe unequivocally has had a better season, which is an outright lie.

  

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El_essence
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212. "RE: lol, can't have it both ways"
In response to Reply # 201


  

          

>he played too much. yall been talking about it for years now,
>complaining HARD for 2. it was inevitable that there would be
>an injury that he couldn't beat with offshore science and
>grit.

Playing too many minutes a game versus missing games in relation to comparing stats is not having it both ways. It's facts. If I play 5 games and average 30 10 and 10 and you play 15 and average 25 7 and 7, who had the better season if the season was 17 games?

>of course kobe is going to end up with better totals. he and
>his coaches don't know how to play any other way. duncan has
>better per minute numbers and we all know did stuff that
>doesn't show up in the stats we can all interpret (like when
>he actually helped on team defense).

The numbers are the numbers. They're virtually equal in the numbers that are comparable regardless of position and each is superior in their position related numbers. One played 10 less games. 10 less games on a 36 year old body is significant when the numbers are that close.

>and of course it is EXCEEDINGLY relevant that he will make
>much of the totals difference up in the only part of the
>season kobe, duncan, lakers fans, and spurs fans have any
>reason to care about.

Not when you're comparing the regular season which is what was presented. Those are two different things.

>you can hem and haw about the POSSIBLITY of the spurs not
>doing well in the post season, but most lakers fans had given
>up on kobe this post season months ago.

And yet...here we are. One possible win from facing the Spurs in the first round....

>there probably wasn't a better way for kobe to play it, and
>respect to him for never quitting on this year. i ONLY
>responded cause some dumbasses are acting like kobe
>unequivocally has had a better season, which is an outright
>lie.

Well there are dumbasses in here acting like duncan unequivocally has had a better career, which to me is even more egregious.

  

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auragin_boi
Member since Aug 01st 2003
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Mon Apr-15-13 09:49 AM

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120. "If the name of Tim's team was NY Knicks"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

He'd always win this debate.

As it stands, it's just a good argument that'll always fall in Kobe's favor because of the stage he did it on (Lakers).

When career wise, it's kinda neck and neck regardless of who you consider the better player.

____________
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ConcreteCharlie
Member since Nov 21st 2002
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Mon Apr-15-13 12:53 PM

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122. "it's part location but also style and lack of stat whoring"
In response to Reply # 120


  

          

duncan doesn't play an exciting game to the casual fan, his minutes are managed and he doesn't put up huge numbers, especially when it comes to scoring.

in other words, morons think he is overrated.

And you will know MY JACKET IS GOLD when I lay my vengeance upon thee.

  

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ThaTruth
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Mon Apr-15-13 01:40 PM

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127. "with a few exceptions its basically like that for most big men..."
In response to Reply # 122


  

          

they don't have as many "highlight" plays as perimeter players plus in a close game more often than not its going to be a perimeter player taking that clutch shot so they get a lot more opportunities at game winners and signature moments. Shaq was exciting to watch because he had a freakish combo of size, strength, agility and skill, Dream has a lot of "highlight" moments because he had ridiculous footwork and dexterity for a big man, Wilt got a lot of notoriety from the sheer dominance of his numbers. Then you look at a guy like Kareem who is kind of similar to Duncan in that he wasn't always that exciting particularly later in his career but when you look at the totality of his body of work and realize he belongs right there in the GOAT convo with MJ and Wilt even though he's often overlooked. Sometimes Russell is even put ahead of him which is comical.

Though we all had some issues with this chart it does show a lot...http://a.espncdn.com/magazine/1224NBAHOB.pdf

  

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rob
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132. "it shows d'antoni's hall, though karl should take more 3s. "
In response to Reply # 127


  

          

  

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ThaTruth
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142. "you're mad because it has KG ahead of Duncan"
In response to Reply # 132


  

          

  

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FILF
Member since Jun 01st 2007
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Mon Apr-15-13 05:14 PM

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159. "According to the formula you standby, Tim is rated higher than Kobe"
In response to Reply # 142


  

          

/post

WHAT'S GOOD *****? What's REALLY good?!?!????!!! Ha HA!
http://40.media.tumblr.com/d8e2daf9f3f37244cd05436bcdf05973/tumblr_mt4qibKq4c1rgam01o1_1280.png

  

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rob
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Mon Apr-15-13 05:20 PM

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160. "why would i be mad? it has kg ahead of damn near everyone."
In response to Reply # 142
Mon Apr-15-13 05:25 PM by rob

  

          

it says david is better than shaq, dream, and russell.

it's wrong. i'm secure in that.

  

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El_essence
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Mon Apr-15-13 03:48 PM

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148. "I think it's a good debate honestly. But lol at some of this shape"
In response to Reply # 120


  

          

shifting bullshit to deny Kobe's accomplishments.

  

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El_essence
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Mon Apr-15-13 03:50 PM

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149. "another note:"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

Kobe will be roughly 30 games away from being the all time scoring leader among perimeter players. I know I know, scoring don't mean shit.

  

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Kira
Member since Nov 14th 2004
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Mon Apr-15-13 04:20 PM

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154. "IF THIS HAPPENS....."
In response to Reply # 149


  

          

>Kobe will be roughly 30 games away from being the all time
>scoring leader among perimeter players. I know I know, scoring
>don't mean shit.

Mods, ain't gon like me because I'm sautιing ALL of the niggas in this post partying. Mookie Blaylock huh? Aight, Anyone could've ball stopped their way to a scoring title and no one finals win.

No empathy for white misery (c) BDot

"root for everybody black haters say that's crazy, wow..."

  

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Cold Truth
Member since Jan 28th 2004
40772 posts
Mon Apr-15-13 04:23 PM

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155. "Kobe might be the only player where scoring is frowned upon."
In response to Reply # 149


  

          

He's also the one guy who gets penalized for needing quality team mates to win. If he couldn't get a ring with Smush and Kwame 'Birthday Cake' Brown, it doesn't count.

Who cares if guys like Bird, Magic, Mike, Isaiah, Russell, West, etc won rings with multiple HOF and players? Kobe gets penalized for that luxury.

Duncan having Parker and Ginobili for a backcourt isn't the same as Kobe having Pau and Andrew Bynum, despite the obvious position inversion (Big with great guards, guard with 1 great big and one good big).

Few all time greats are scrutinized like Kobe.
Lebron did catch flack for Bosh and Wade, and that's bullshit too.

Dirk won without a prime HOF player (lets not act like that Kidd was the same guy who played for the Nets) and Dream (lets not act like anyone on that first title team was sniffing a HOF selection)and.... that's about it.

  

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FILF
Member since Jun 01st 2007
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Mon Apr-15-13 05:06 PM

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158. "Kobe is the only HOF that has been shit on by a HOF coach/teammates"
In response to Reply # 155
Mon Apr-15-13 05:08 PM by FILF

  

          

explain.

FYI: Dirk's supporting cast in 2011 > Tim's supporting cast in '03. Parker was being benched in favor of Claxton in the 4th quarter of the Finals no less & Jackson was a better player than Manu in '03.
Kidd/Parker
Tyson/Admiral
Marion/Jackson
JET/Manu
Barea/Claxton
Bowen/Stevenson

As far as dream, Horry was a beast, Mad Max was a good scorer & Otis was solid & Cassell/Ellie/Kenny were money from.....there is a reason why they called them Clutch City. Not taking away from the fact that Dream carried them on his back but I don't see much of a difference b/w the 94' Rockets & '03 Spurs supporting cast. (Again, this is in the context of those specific years....not 2013 Tony/Manu, not '95 Admiral nor 2000s Cassell)

WHAT'S GOOD *****? What's REALLY good?!?!????!!! Ha HA!
http://40.media.tumblr.com/d8e2daf9f3f37244cd05436bcdf05973/tumblr_mt4qibKq4c1rgam01o1_1280.png

  

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Cold Truth
Member since Jan 28th 2004
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Mon Apr-15-13 05:48 PM

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165. "Your header is a dumb, completely irrelevant argument. "
In response to Reply # 158
Mon Apr-15-13 05:48 PM by Cold Truth

  

          

You can add Tim's 03 team to that mix with Dream and Dirk though.

I realize you're trying to make it appear that Dirk and Dream had better supporting casts than they had, but it's not needed. Dirk beat a team with three HOF players in their prime years without a player on his squad anywhere near his level at the time, ditto with Dreams cast. NY was similarly constructed though so that was a pretty fair match-up.

None of them had a second HOF level player in their prime years at the time like most champs have. If you want to turn that particular distinction into a pissing contest where we evaluate each individual player on their respective teams to determine who had the best supporting cast out of those three, be my guest.

The point was that those who win without another prime time, HOF level player on their squad is rare. Plenty of guys have solid teams like Dirk and Dream and Duncan during the years in question, but the list of guys who win titles with those types of teams sans a true-blue HOF level player in their prime years at the time is extremely short.

In fact, when Kobe won his last two, it's arguable whether he has a HOF player at his side. Pau gets in on the international tip, but not his NBA career. Laker haters are always quick to shoot him down as a HOF level player qhen looking at his NBA career until Kobe comes into play, where Pau is suddenly one of the best big men the game has ever seen.

Let's not even pretend Socks was in peak form in 09, and we all know 08 was a two man show with Lamar showing up on occasion as the perfect third wheel in that mix.

Kobe had very good squads in 08/09, but HOF talent, prime years? Nope. Mike can't say that. Neither can Magic or Bird or even Lebron. Shaq certainly can't say that, considering the out-of-his mind level Kobe played during most of those runs (as you ought to remember, he absolutely ass-fucked the Spurs on two occasions) and Wade went beserk for Shaq's final ring.

Their team mates were in their peak, HOF level best when they won. While Kobe's team still had a prime time player in Pau, let's not pretend he wasn't spotty as fuck after his game 1 destruction of denver.

  

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FILF
Member since Jun 01st 2007
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Tue Apr-16-13 03:07 AM

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203. "Pau, when utilized the right way is basically the best offensive big"
In response to Reply # 165


  

          

There is no question that he's soft as a tissue but his skill-set is undeniable.

WHAT'S GOOD *****? What's REALLY good?!?!????!!! Ha HA!
http://40.media.tumblr.com/d8e2daf9f3f37244cd05436bcdf05973/tumblr_mt4qibKq4c1rgam01o1_1280.png

  

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Cold Truth
Member since Jan 28th 2004
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Tue Apr-16-13 08:10 AM

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208. "Cool story bro. Nobody is calling for a HOF induction. "
In response to Reply # 203


  

          

  

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ConcreteCharlie
Member since Nov 21st 2002
71175 posts
Tue Apr-16-13 11:27 PM

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238. "For Gasol? Oddly I have been swung on that, he might make it"
In response to Reply # 208


  

          

That last HOF post put me from hall of very good to potential HOF'er, he really tore shit up at a young age in Europe.

And you will know MY JACKET IS GOLD when I lay my vengeance upon thee.

  

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Cold Truth
Member since Jan 28th 2004
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Tue Apr-16-13 11:46 PM

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240. "He'll get in based on his international resume. "
In response to Reply # 238


  

          

I'd bank on that. His NBA career will go down in the annals of the 'hall of very good'. His first season and a half as a Laker he could score damn near at will and could make a legit argument for best 4 in the L on many nights in spite of his defensive shortcomings during that span. He's had games this year as a playmaker that were beautiful to watch. I love Pau. He's a Laker through and through and MIGHT get the benefit of a jersey in the rafters one day.

His Lakers tenure was somewhat mercurial, though not in as extreme a manner as, say, Lamar Odom. While his presence obviously gave Kobe validation for his first three titles, he's the prime benefactor in that relationship. While Pau gave Bean validation, playing with Bean (and the Lakers, obviously) gave Pau a few added levels of stature on a huge stage. Kobe cemented an immense legacy and Pau gained a smallish one. It's difficult to discuss the complexity of that pairing in the grand scheme of things without many people downplaying one to support the other and vice versa, but I'm firmly a fan of Pau and his importance to this team. I just think his best hopes for the HOF based on his NBA career alone is borderline. Were he a better defender it would bolster his case considerably. We have to add his admittedly impressive Barcelona resume to put him there with certainty.

  

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FILF
Member since Jun 01st 2007
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Wed Apr-17-13 04:14 AM

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241. "well, in that case then Top5/Manu ain't HOFer either"
In response to Reply # 240


  

          

WHAT'S GOOD *****? What's REALLY good?!?!????!!! Ha HA!
http://40.media.tumblr.com/d8e2daf9f3f37244cd05436bcdf05973/tumblr_mt4qibKq4c1rgam01o1_1280.png

  

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Cold Truth
Member since Jan 28th 2004
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Wed Apr-17-13 09:30 AM

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242. "And?"
In response to Reply # 241


  

          

  

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FILF
Member since Jun 01st 2007
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Sun Jun-01-14 09:55 PM

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284. "It proves that Bean didn't have an inferior supporting cast"
In response to Reply # 242
Sun Jun-01-14 10:01 PM by FILF

  

          

You claimed that MVPau isn't a HOFer thus Bean should get all the limelight meanwhile Pau is better than Manu/Top5.....maybe you should generate a better rhetoric to put Bean on a pedestal than "MVPau isn't a HOFer" b/c that argument is irrelevant since Manu/Top5 aren't either based on what your criteria.

WHAT'S GOOD *****? What's REALLY good?!?!????!!! Ha HA!
http://40.media.tumblr.com/d8e2daf9f3f37244cd05436bcdf05973/tumblr_mt4qibKq4c1rgam01o1_1280.png

  

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rob
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Mon Apr-15-13 05:38 PM

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164. "kobestan was so much more tolerable when kobe was winning"
In response to Reply # 155


  

          

and yall gloried in his assholery. he gets treated differently by commentators because he puts his shit out there in a different way. and they still make an effort (like people do here) to respect his talent, drive, and accomplishments.

duncan isn't going to go ALL CAPS on facebook next time something doesn't go his way.

  

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El_essence
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Mon Apr-15-13 05:49 PM

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166. "If y'all fucks didn't keep talking about Kobe like the downside of his"
In response to Reply # 164


  

          

career reflected his entire career you wouldn't hear shit from 90% of Kobestan. This is Kobe's second to the last year of a 17 year all time great career where he's still playing at an elite level (offensively lol) and there are literally multiple posts up every week talking about how Kobe ain't as good as player X. fohwtbs. I'm actually surprised at how many old OKS heads are still playing this silly ass game. It's Shell's thing. But Bomb and CC surprise me.

  

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rob
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Mon Apr-15-13 11:27 PM

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186. "kobe never changed. why should we?"
In response to Reply # 166


  

          

  

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ConcreteCharlie
Member since Nov 21st 2002
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Tue Apr-16-13 01:01 AM

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193. "summary: debate is close, maybe getting closer, how do u feel?"
In response to Reply # 166


  

          

this set of statements and this question offend you somehow?

are you not the same guy who asked for what ifs and prognostications about AI's possible landing spots in a trade right before he got to denver?

that did not offend me, i answered honestly.

And you will know MY JACKET IS GOLD when I lay my vengeance upon thee.

  

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El_essence
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Tue Apr-16-13 01:19 AM

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199. "actually the post is a fair one. Not offended. Just beneath you in parti..."
In response to Reply # 193


  

          

to ask it here. You're not going to get legit dialogue on it.

  

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ConcreteCharlie
Member since Nov 21st 2002
71175 posts
Tue Apr-16-13 11:26 PM

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237. "sorry but roland lazenby canceled our lunch, homey"
In response to Reply # 199


  

          

And you will know MY JACKET IS GOLD when I lay my vengeance upon thee.

  

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Cold Truth
Member since Jan 28th 2004
40772 posts
Mon Apr-15-13 05:54 PM

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168. "Duncan is an emotionless robot though. "
In response to Reply # 164


  

          

Top Five could fuck his wife and he'd still have that same dumbass expression.

As an aside, Kobe's crossed some lines, but uh... he ain't ever fucked a team mates wife.

  

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Lach
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Mon Apr-15-13 06:06 PM

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170. "eh, if that's the case, what about Karl Malone?"
In response to Reply # 155


  

          

How come he isn't considered the top PF all time?

  

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Cold Truth
Member since Jan 28th 2004
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Mon Apr-15-13 06:16 PM

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172. "I don't see where this is a relevant argument. "
In response to Reply # 170


  

          

I said Kobe's scoring is frowned upon.

I didn't say scoring is the end all be all of all players. Further, Bean scored *and* won *and* went to 7 Finals, Karl did not. Kobe also has three more finals appearances than Duncan, but that's in the Kobe/Tim conversation.

Further, Karl has a few cats with legit arguments to that #2 spot behind Tim. Kobe doesn't have anyone else that's reasonably close to taking that spot.

Still... I never said scoring was all there was, just that Kobe was the one guy people try to use scoring as a means of knocking him.

  

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mistermaxxx08
Member since Dec 31st 2010
16076 posts
Tue Apr-16-13 01:08 AM

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198. "i take Dwyane Wade over Kobe"
In response to Reply # 172


          

and he plays better defense. better teammate as well.

D Wade truly ain't greedy because he plays the right way.

mistermaxxx R.Kelly, Michael Jackson,Stevie wonder,Rick James,Marvin Gaye,El Debarge, Barry WHite Lionel RIchie,Isleys EWF,Lady T.,Kid creole and coconuts,the crusaders,kc sunshine band,bee gees,jW,sd,NE,JB

Miami Heat, New York Yankees,buffalo bills

  

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Cold Truth
Member since Jan 28th 2004
40772 posts
Tue Apr-16-13 08:04 AM

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206. "LOL. Go away troll. "
In response to Reply # 198


  

          

  

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Lach
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Tue Apr-16-13 02:06 PM

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215. "Wade won with a 75 year old Shaq to boot"
In response to Reply # 198
Tue Apr-16-13 02:06 PM by Lach

  

          

imagine if he had a 29/30 year old Shaq with him

  

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Ryan M
Member since Oct 21st 2002
40093 posts
Tue Apr-16-13 02:28 PM

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224. "Oh, you mean runner up MVP Shaq?"
In response to Reply # 215


  

          

Wade's not better than Kobe. Just stop.

------------------------------
'19-'20 LA Lakers

James. Davis. Kuzma. Howard. Rondo. Caldwell-Pope. Green. Cook. Bradley. McGee. Dudley. Caruso...

  

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Bombastic
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Tue Apr-16-13 02:37 PM

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226. "runner-up to MVP was the prior year, I hear you tho"
In response to Reply # 224


  

          

>Wade's not better than Kobe. Just stop.

  

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ConcreteCharlie
Member since Nov 21st 2002
71175 posts
Tue Apr-16-13 01:07 AM

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196. "he is by many people, especially if you consider duncan a 5"
In response to Reply # 170


  

          

pretty much tim, chuck or the mailman, really. once in a while you hear a mchale.

on that note, why the hell is it that damn near every great PF that came before the 80s is a forgotten man? mcadoo, mcginnis, mo lucas, jerry lucas, et fucking al, all slept on. even elvin fucking hayes seems to have faded from the collective basketball consciousness. other positions don't get overlooked like that.

And you will know MY JACKET IS GOLD when I lay my vengeance upon thee.

  

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El_essence
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Tue Apr-16-13 01:22 AM

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200. "I think the Tim Duncan is the greatest PF ever narrative explains "
In response to Reply # 196


  

          

a lot. Duncan is a center. AN EXTREMELY GREAT center. But it sounds a lot better than one of the greatest centers of all time. But that has put a where's waldo on all of those great PFs.

  

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mistermaxxx08
Member since Dec 31st 2010
16076 posts
Tue Apr-16-13 11:35 AM

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209. "because the espn era media like to make it sound like"
In response to Reply # 196


          

the nba started in 1979 with bird and magic and modern players play that game as well and the david stern peacock brand of mainstreaming black players to a larger white audience.

of cour Mcadoo who i saw as a kid was pre Dirk and some others, however he was too black.

mcginess same thing maurice lucas elvin hayes.

mistermaxxx R.Kelly, Michael Jackson,Stevie wonder,Rick James,Marvin Gaye,El Debarge, Barry WHite Lionel RIchie,Isleys EWF,Lady T.,Kid creole and coconuts,the crusaders,kc sunshine band,bee gees,jW,sd,NE,JB

Miami Heat, New York Yankees,buffalo bills

  

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40thStreetBlack
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Tue Apr-16-13 11:35 AM

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210. "Duncan won without a prime HOF player in 2003"
In response to Reply # 155


          

>Dirk won without a prime HOF player (lets not act like that
>Kidd was the same guy who played for the Nets) and Dream (lets
>not act like anyone on that first title team was sniffing a
>HOF selection)and.... that's about it.

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El_essence
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Wed Apr-17-13 01:21 PM

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243. "Pau wasn't a HOF in 2009 if we're going there nm"
In response to Reply # 210


  

          

.

  

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40thStreetBlack
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Wed Apr-17-13 02:22 PM

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244. "Pau was All-NBA in 2009. He was in his prime."
In response to Reply # 243


          

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LBs Finest
Member since Sep 28th 2005
19843 posts
Wed Apr-17-13 03:38 PM

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246. "Kobe made him All NBA"
In response to Reply # 244


  

          

he spoon fed him so many easy baskets

_________________________

  

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40thStreetBlack
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Wed Apr-17-13 04:16 PM

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248. "Pau scored more in Memphis"
In response to Reply # 246


          

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El_essence
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Wed Apr-17-13 06:15 PM

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249. "based on what you initially said, Pau wasn't a HOF until he started"
In response to Reply # 248


  

          

playing in LA. just saying. Cold Truth's overall point is still accurate. There are players that have won with far more HOF level talent around them that don't get the same qualifiers that Kobe does. Lebron got it for a minute. But it's never talked about now.

  

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40thStreetBlack
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Thu Apr-18-13 04:20 PM

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251. "That's not what I initially said. I was talking about primes."
In response to Reply # 249


          

Pau career accomplishment weren't getting him in the HOF yet by 2009 but he was in his prime. Parker and Ginobili weren't in their primes in 2003; they weren't even all-star level yet.

>playing in LA. just saying. Cold Truth's overall point is
>still accurate. There are players that have won with far more
>HOF level talent around them that don't get the same
>qualifiers that Kobe does. Lebron got it for a minute. But
>it's never talked about now.

ok.

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El_essence
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Fri Apr-19-13 11:53 AM

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258. "you said prime HOF players. but ok nm"
In response to Reply # 251


  

          

.

  

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ConcreteCharlie
Member since Nov 21st 2002
71175 posts
Fri Apr-19-13 12:58 PM

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260. "All-NBA 1st Team, HOF, that's hair splitting at its finest"
In response to Reply # 249


  

          

Especially since Pau probably WILL be in the Hall of Fame when all is said and done.

And you will know MY JACKET IS GOLD when I lay my vengeance upon thee.

  

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LBs Finest
Member since Sep 28th 2005
19843 posts
Wed Apr-17-13 07:41 PM

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250. "you mean when he was the #1 option? shocking"
In response to Reply # 248


  

          

what isn't shocking is how much more efficient he became in LA.

_________________________

  

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40thStreetBlack
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Thu Apr-18-13 04:22 PM

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252. "I guess Kobe made him put up that triple-double w/20 rebs last night too"
In response to Reply # 250


          


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Cold Truth
Member since Jan 28th 2004
40772 posts
Thu Apr-18-13 04:44 PM

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253. "Please explain what one has to do with the other. "
In response to Reply # 252


  

          

You were talking about him scoring more on a team that didn't already have one of the best scorers in the league, and then scoring less on a team with one of the best scorers in the league.

Nobody said he sucked or couldn't score or couldn't rebound or pass well and in fact all three are well known about Pau, so please explain the relevance of this, erm, "point".

It just sounds like generic Kobe hate more than anything.

  

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40thStreetBlack
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Fri Apr-19-13 12:10 PM

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259. "LB said Kobe made him All-NBA feeding him easy baskets, I said he scored..."
In response to Reply # 253


          

more in Memphis. I don't see what's so difficult to understand about it.

>Nobody said he sucked or couldn't score or couldn't rebound or
>pass well and in fact all three are well known about Pau, so
>please explain the relevance of this, erm, "point".

LB has repeatedly said that Pau was a "third-tier big" before he came to LA, so erm, yeah he kinda did.


>It just sounds like generic Kobe hate more than anything.

no, this just sounds like Kobestani defensiveness more than anything. I was defending Pau, not attacking Kobe.

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Cold Truth
Member since Jan 28th 2004
40772 posts
Fri Apr-19-13 02:08 PM

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262. "He was third tier. Third tier doesn't mean you suck, it makes you "
In response to Reply # 259


  

          

top ten at your position.


>>Nobody said he sucked or couldn't score or couldn't rebound
>or
>>pass well and in fact all three are well known about Pau, so
>>please explain the relevance of this, erm, "point".
>
>LB has repeatedly said that Pau was a "third-tier big" before
>he came to LA, so erm, yeah he kinda did.

No, he didn't, like at all. Third tier doesn't mean he sucks, can't score, or can't rebound. It means he's not in the elite class. You're reaching.

>>It just sounds like generic Kobe hate more than anything.
>
>no, this just sounds like Kobestani defensiveness more than
>anything. I was defending Pau, not attacking Kobe.

Cool. The perception of Pau changed a great deal after he got to LA.

  

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40thStreetBlack
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Fri Apr-19-13 05:23 PM

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263. "20/10/3 on 54% FG & 2 BPG is not "third tier""
In response to Reply # 262


          

>No, he didn't, like at all. Third tier doesn't mean he sucks,
>can't score, or can't rebound. It means he's not in the elite
>class. You're reaching.

second-tier means he's not in the elite class. third tier is reaching. LB called him third-tier to downplay how good he was.

>Cool. The perception of Pau changed a great deal after he got
>to LA.

of course. winning a couple of rings will do that for you.

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Cold Truth
Member since Jan 28th 2004
40772 posts
Thu Apr-18-13 04:44 PM

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254. "Please explain what one has to do with the other. "
In response to Reply # 252


  

          

You were talking about him scoring more on a team that didn't already have one of the best scorers in the league, and then scoring less on a team with one of the best scorers in the league.

Nobody said he sucked or couldn't score or couldn't rebound or pass well and in fact all three are well known about Pau, so please explain the relevance of this, erm, "point".

It just sounds like generic Kobe hate more than anything.

  

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LBs Finest
Member since Sep 28th 2005
19843 posts
Thu Apr-18-13 08:00 PM

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256. "these last 2 games without him he's 10-34 from the field"
In response to Reply # 252


  

          

_________________________

  

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Cold Truth
Member since Jan 28th 2004
40772 posts
Thu Apr-18-13 04:49 PM

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255. "Cool. He's also on that short list. Kobe is too, actually. "
In response to Reply # 210


  

          

  

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