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Subject: "Can NFL teams ask if Manti is gay? Yes..certain ones can (Swipe)" Previous topic | Next topic
subjctmattr
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Wed Feb-27-13 02:59 PM

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"Can NFL teams ask if Manti is gay? Yes..certain ones can (Swipe)"
Wed Feb-27-13 03:00 PM by subjctmattr

          

Peep this Yahoo story.
WOW


Can NFL teams ask Manti Te'o if he's gay? Depends on which teams are doing the asking


A quirk in the American legal system means that NFL teams are governed by differing laws on the level of intrusive questioning they can impose on potential draft picks such as Manti Te'o.
Te'o's sexuality has been the subject of much debate following the fallout of the Notre Dame defensive star's hoax girlfriend saga that thrust him into a storm of media attention and, unfortunately, public ridicule.
One NFL insider, NBC Sports' Mike Florio, said Monday that several NFL organizations would like to know whether the powerful Hawaiian linebacker is gay, describing the matter as the "elephant in the room."

However, a number of NFL executives told Yahoo! Sports' Michael Silver that in interviews with Te'o they did not ask him about his sexuality.
Which NFL franchises can and can't ask a player if he is gay?
Can / Can't
Atlanta Falcons / Baltimore Ravens
Arizona Cardinals / Buffalo Bills
Carolina Panthers / Chicago Bears
Cincinnati Bengals / Denver Broncos
Cleveland Browns / Green Bay Packers
Dallas Cowboys / Minnesota Vikings
Detroit Lions / New England Patriots
Houston Texans / New York Giants
Indianapolis Colts / New York Jets
Jacksonville Jaguars / Oakland Raiders
Kansas City Chiefs / San Diego Chargers
Miami Dolphins San / Francisco 49ers
New Orleans Saints / Seattle Seahawks
Pittsburgh Steelers
Philadelphia Eagles
St. Louis Rams
Tampa Bay Buccaneers
Tennessee Titans
Washington Redskins

Yet as much as teams may or may not want to know the details of Te'o's private life, sexual orientation rights vary from state to state and are not governed by United States federal legislation. As such,13 of 32 NFL franchises are prohibited by law from discrimination based on sexual orientation. In other words, they can't ask Te'o if he's gay.
"No, we stayed away," one NFL executive told Silver at the NFL Combine in Indianapolis. "We didn't care, really. We just wanted to get the story straight."
However, that executive was left with little choice if he wished to remain within the confines of employment and privacy law, as the team he works for is one of the 14 franchises from a state that protects sexuality rights under state regulations.
The NFL confirmed on Tuesday that it has no direct policy on the line of questioning teams and their officials can undertake, stipulating only that they adhere to relevant employment laws. That has led to a series of probing questions ranging from the offensive – when Dez Bryant was asked if his mother was a prostitute by Miami Dolphins GM Jeff Ireland – to the bizarre, when Tampa Bay Buccaneers Gerald McCoy was quizzed by a potential employer over his choice of underwear.
"Teams are expected to comply with the law in terms of any employment interview," NFL spokesman Greg Aiello told Yahoo! Sports in an email on Tuesday.
This, however, creates an imbalance. While federal law protects certain characteristics from discrimination, such as race, gender, religion or belief and disability, it "has been slow to catch up on aspects like sexuality," according to Professor Dylan Malagrino, a sports law expert from Western State University College of Law, in Fullerton, Calif.
"There is no federal protection and it has become a state law matter," added Malagrino. "Some states, like California and Minnesota, have been very proactive. But some states there is no protection at all, and teams in theory could ask inquisitive questions into someone's private life and sexuality."
Most nations have codified national laws that govern such protections and restrictions. Europe, for example, has a broad range of human rights legislation that would make it virtually impossible for an employer within a European Union country to pose such a question without risking sanction.
"American law on this matter is like a crazy quilt," said Matthew Finkin, professor of law at the University of Illinois and author of Privacy in Employment Law, which tackles equality in American employment on a state-by-state basis. "The southern states are generally seen as being very employer friendly, whereas the west coast is seen as being more favorable to the employee, partly due to strong unions and such."
Other legal vagaries affect other matters; certain states permit clauses whereby an employer can ask for access to a potential employee's social media accounts, whereas others do not.
However, both professors agreed that if the NFL implemented a certain policy, it would be binding on all teams and end the split-treatment.
But what about when the interview is taking place outside the state in which the team is situated?

"Most likely the company or the team would just have to abide by the laws of the state in which they are based," Malagrino said. "Although it highlights the confusion that these gaps in the law can cause – a company from Georgia could ask questions of an interviewee in California that a Californian company could not."
"There has been almost no litigation on situations crossing state borders in that way," added Finkin. "Although, for example, if an Illinois company is speaking to a candidate for a position that will be based in Illinois, then Illinois law should be binding, wherever the interview takes place."
Incidentally, the state of Indiana where the combine took place, only prohibits discrimination based on sexual orientation in public employment; private sector companies such as the NFL are unrestricted.
Prospect Nick Kasa, a tight end from Colorado, told ESPN Radio Denver that teams asked him about his sexual orientation, though in a veiled way.
" ask you like, ‘Do you have a girlfriend?’ Are you married?’ Do you like girls?’ " Kasa revealed. "Those kinds of things, and you know it was just kind of weird. But they would ask you with a straight face, and it’s a pretty weird experience altogether."
Homophobia in the NFL has increasingly become a hot talking point, never more so than when San Francisco 49ers cornerback Chris Culliver told a radio show during Super Bowl week that gay players would not be welcome in his team's locker room.
That viewpoint was subsequently retracted, albeit rather unconvincingly, and denounced – with several players around the league adamant that an openly gay player would not only be tolerated but fully accepted.
Arian Foster, DeMarco Murray and Dwayne Bowe all told Yahoo! Sports that gay players would find acceptance and respect for their bravery in coming out publicly.
Te'o performed poorly at the scouting combine, and expectations are that the former top-10 projected pick will have slid down the draft boards of several teams.

  

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Topic Outline
Subject Author Message Date ID
i dont see anything wrong w/ it
Feb 27th 2013
1
What does that have anything to do with anything?
Feb 27th 2013
2
See, its cool to be all PC and stuff but u dont need to be ignorant
Feb 27th 2013
4
then it's an issue. lets be real here.
Feb 27th 2013
6
      fuck that. bring it. let the homophobes get shamed
Feb 27th 2013
10
      You're not wrong and you're also not using your money
Feb 27th 2013
13
      NO THE FUCK IT WON'T BE AN ISSUE
Feb 27th 2013
18
           Ok.
Feb 27th 2013
19
                Let me ask you a question...
Feb 27th 2013
20
                     I am talking about Manti, no one else
Feb 27th 2013
21
                          This one response then I'll let you bask in homophoBia
Feb 27th 2013
22
                               I am not homophobic and I do not appreciate being called that
Feb 27th 2013
23
                                    He's deliberately ignoring obvious points, it's lame
Feb 27th 2013
24
                                         nigga think we live in some sort of enlightened paradise
Feb 27th 2013
25
                                              From the level of anger I think he has something he wants to tell us
Feb 27th 2013
27
                                              I GET IT. YOU THINK HE'S GAY.
Feb 28th 2013
30
                                              Smh
Mar 01st 2013
62
                                              sig material...
Feb 28th 2013
28
                                                   "from the outside"?
Feb 28th 2013
41
                                                        RE: "from the outside"?
Mar 01st 2013
60
                                                             sorry
Mar 01st 2013
63
If only the article were clearer about its scope
Feb 27th 2013
3
lol
Feb 27th 2013
5
LOL
Feb 27th 2013
7
really been enjoying your forays into non-baseball posts recently
Feb 27th 2013
11
Dez's situation is different
Feb 27th 2013
15
      RE: Dez's situation is different
Feb 27th 2013
16
RE: Can NFL teams ask if Manti is gay? Yes..certain ones can (Swipe)
Feb 27th 2013
8
An office and an NFL lockeroom are DIFFERENT evironments
Feb 27th 2013
9
      what?
Feb 27th 2013
12
      I DONT DISAGREE!!
Feb 27th 2013
14
           they wouldn't be asking for the enlightened reason you're hoping they ar...
Feb 27th 2013
26
      I mean they are different environments
Mar 01st 2013
61
yeah they all can
Feb 27th 2013
17
Gays in Sports = Gays/Women on frontline warfare in military.
Feb 28th 2013
29
Good point.
Feb 28th 2013
31
sports boards seem to attract tons of um
Feb 28th 2013
52
The white lilberals up in this post are disgusting me
Feb 28th 2013
32
this type of bullshit is repulsive
Feb 28th 2013
33
You agree this is all coming from the "Catfish" tho right?
Feb 28th 2013
34
yes. him getting catfished is the only reason anyone is thinking
Feb 28th 2013
37
      "Did you lie about being catfished to cover up your sexuality?"
Feb 28th 2013
38
           why bring in the sexuality?
Feb 28th 2013
39
                This kind of reminds me of gay marriage attackers
Feb 28th 2013
40
                     i think you just completely misinterpreted
Feb 28th 2013
42
                          Well I've stated my thoughts
Feb 28th 2013
43
                               yeah. i'm the one assuming here.
Feb 28th 2013
48
                                    I've expressed an opinion
Feb 28th 2013
50
                                         Pretty sure people are explicitly stating that above.
Feb 28th 2013
51
                                         I did include an *
Feb 28th 2013
53
                                         but that's perpetuating an unacceptable situation
Feb 28th 2013
55
                                              RE: but that's perpetuating an unacceptable situation***
Feb 28th 2013
57
                                                   because getting catfished is an act based on choice
Feb 28th 2013
58
                                                        RE: because getting catfished is an act based on choice
Feb 28th 2013
59
                                                             the team that doesn't ask a player about his sexuality
Mar 01st 2013
64
That is basically the argument
Feb 28th 2013
36
and goddamn YOU'RE an idiot
Feb 28th 2013
45
      which is true regardless of his answer, so...
Feb 28th 2013
46
actually we're fully engaging in discussion.
Feb 28th 2013
35
      goddamn you are an idiot
Feb 28th 2013
44
           oh, so because some people rumor about his sexuality
Feb 28th 2013
47
           will you chill with the personal attacks?
Feb 28th 2013
49
           So draft him if you like him as a player
Feb 28th 2013
54
Ceej is right, though it shouldn't be that way
Feb 28th 2013
56

BrooklynWHAT
Member since Jun 15th 2007
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Wed Feb-27-13 03:07 PM

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1. "i dont see anything wrong w/ it"
In response to Reply # 0
Wed Feb-27-13 03:07 PM by BrooklynWHAT

  

          

football aint your avg job.

i'm asking about any and everything that could potentially harm my massive investment in you as a player. see: Dez Bryant.

<--- Big Baller World Order

  

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subjctmattr
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Wed Feb-27-13 03:22 PM

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2. "What does that have anything to do with anything?"
In response to Reply # 1


          

Let's say YEAH he's gay as hell.

So what?

  

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Ceej
Member since Feb 16th 2006
65949 posts
Wed Feb-27-13 03:29 PM

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4. "See, its cool to be all PC and stuff but u dont need to be ignorant"
In response to Reply # 2


  

          

>Let's say YEAH he's gay as hell.
>
>So what?

Whether you like it or a not, him being gay will be an issue that teams want to prepare to deal with if thats the case.

People are dumb and that is why this is an issue, sucks but when you're dealing with millions of dollars teams should have the right to know what they're getting into.

http://i.imgur.com/vPqCzVU.jpg

  

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BrooklynWHAT
Member since Jun 15th 2007
81412 posts
Wed Feb-27-13 03:34 PM

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6. "then it's an issue. lets be real here."
In response to Reply # 2


  

          

<--- Big Baller World Order

  

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thejerseytornado
Member since Dec 24th 2005
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Wed Feb-27-13 04:08 PM

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10. "fuck that. bring it. let the homophobes get shamed"
In response to Reply # 6


  

          

wrong side of history. catch the fuck up.

-----------
It's only funny till someone gets mad. Then it's hilarious.

  

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Ceej
Member since Feb 16th 2006
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Wed Feb-27-13 04:16 PM

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13. "You're not wrong and you're also not using your money"
In response to Reply # 10


  

          

http://i.imgur.com/vPqCzVU.jpg

  

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subjctmattr
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Wed Feb-27-13 05:45 PM

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18. "NO THE FUCK IT WON'T BE AN ISSUE"
In response to Reply # 6


          

What the fuck is that?

Can you play?

That is and should be the only thing that matters.
Anything else is bullshit. That ain't being PC that's being factual.

If he's gay that's his fucking business. He didn't sign a contract with an NFL team to be heterosexual, he signed to play football.

Who he sleeps with has absolutely NOTHING to do with that.

  

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Ceej
Member since Feb 16th 2006
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Wed Feb-27-13 05:48 PM

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19. "Ok."
In response to Reply # 18


  

          

Won't be a distraction at all, good point.

http://i.imgur.com/vPqCzVU.jpg

  

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subjctmattr
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Wed Feb-27-13 06:03 PM

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20. "Let me ask you a question..."
In response to Reply # 19
Wed Feb-27-13 06:03 PM by subjctmattr

          

You think there's no gay men in the NFL right now?
Or for the past 10- 15 years even?

Has it EVER been a distraction?

Or do you think that if Manti is indeed gay, he will be the first gay football player?

  

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Ceej
Member since Feb 16th 2006
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Wed Feb-27-13 06:10 PM

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21. "I am talking about Manti, no one else"
In response to Reply # 20


  

          

Numbers say there are gay players in the NFL.


Zero out active players....why is that???

http://i.imgur.com/vPqCzVU.jpg

  

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subjctmattr
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Wed Feb-27-13 06:14 PM

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22. "This one response then I'll let you bask in homophoBia"
In response to Reply # 21


          


>Zero out active players....why is that???

BECAUSE

IT

DOESN'T

FUCKING

MATTER

THAT'S

WHY!

Ain't none of them come out heterosexual, why insist they come out homosexual?

  

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Ceej
Member since Feb 16th 2006
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Wed Feb-27-13 06:20 PM

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23. "I am not homophobic and I do not appreciate being called that"
In response to Reply # 22


  

          

I am simply stating my opinion from an owner standpoint on a specific situation.

Since you won't talk about the issue at hand I will not continue either.

http://i.imgur.com/vPqCzVU.jpg

  

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Tiger Woods
Member since Feb 15th 2004
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Wed Feb-27-13 08:47 PM

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24. "He's deliberately ignoring obvious points, it's lame"
In response to Reply # 23


  

          

  

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BrooklynWHAT
Member since Jun 15th 2007
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Wed Feb-27-13 08:59 PM

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25. "nigga think we live in some sort of enlightened paradise"
In response to Reply # 24


  

          

this is america. people are stupid, closed-minded and ignorant. it matters.

<--- Big Baller World Order

  

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ThaTruth
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27. "From the level of anger I think he has something he wants to tell us"
In response to Reply # 25


          

________________________________________
"Stay out the dark, cause if I catch you when the sun is down..."
https://youtu.be/eaaTxVRG06c?t=89

  

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smutsboy
Member since Jun 29th 2002
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Thu Feb-28-13 09:24 AM

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30. "I GET IT. YOU THINK HE'S GAY."
In response to Reply # 27


  

          

THAT'S HILARIOUS DUDE!

  

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LA2Philly
Member since Oct 18th 2004
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Fri Mar-01-13 02:42 AM

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62. "Smh"
In response to Reply # 27


  

          

---------------------------------
<--The drought is over

"have fun reveling in your pettiness tho" (C) Dula summing up 98% of OKS

"I didnt finish a damn thing...matter of fact I jerked off after she left."
-Kobe speaking to investigators

L D E A

  

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jimaveli
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28. "sig material..."
In response to Reply # 25


  

          

>this is america. people are stupid, closed-minded and
>ignorant. it matters.

And yeah...it (still) matters. Most likely. Acknowledging that from the outside doesn't make anybody a bad person.

And I'm pretty comfortable with the assumption that gay dudes in the league aren't exactly announcing it to their locker rooms on some Necessary Roughness shit. Because it matters.

Jimaveli

  

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smutsboy
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41. ""from the outside"?"
In response to Reply # 28


  

          

Um.

  

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jimaveli
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60. "RE: "from the outside"?"
In response to Reply # 41


  

          

>Um.

Nobody here is running a team or faced with the call on drafting dude or not based on anything. So any of us speculating that folks are trying to find out 'what team he's playing for' to use for their decision-making is doing so 'from the outside', because we aren't GMs, scouts, or coaches.

  

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smutsboy
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63. "sorry"
In response to Reply # 60


  

          

I thought you meant the GM/Pres was from the outside as in 'not in the locker room'.

nevermind.

Either way, I don't know about people here being 'bad people,' but trying to justify the line of questioning as if it doesn't help perpetuate the problem is b.s. to me.

Do what you gotta do, but don't pretend like you (the GM) isn't part of the problem.

  

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Walleye
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3. "If only the article were clearer about its scope"
In response to Reply # 1


          

>legal
>laws
>rights
>prohibited by law from discrimination based on sexual orientation
>employment and privacy law
>protects sexuality rights under state regulations.
>employment laws.
>Teams are expected to comply with the law
>state law matter

______________________________

"Walleye, a lot of things are going to go wrong in your life that technically aren't your fault. Always remember that this doesn't make you any less of an idiot"

--Walleye's Dad

  

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Ceej
Member since Feb 16th 2006
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Wed Feb-27-13 03:30 PM

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5. "lol "
In response to Reply # 3


  

          

that was some fine c & Ping

http://i.imgur.com/vPqCzVU.jpg

  

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Frank Longo
Member since Nov 18th 2003
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Wed Feb-27-13 03:40 PM

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7. "LOL"
In response to Reply # 3


  

          

For beer lovers: http://thebeertravelguide.com
For movie lovers: http://russellhainline.com

  

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thejerseytornado
Member since Dec 24th 2005
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Wed Feb-27-13 04:09 PM

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11. "really been enjoying your forays into non-baseball posts recently"
In response to Reply # 3


  

          

this one was really excellent.

-----------
It's only funny till someone gets mad. Then it's hilarious.

  

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Cocobrotha2
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15. "Dez's situation is different"
In response to Reply # 1


          

>football aint your avg job.
>
>i'm asking about any and everything that could potentially
>harm my massive investment in you as a player. see: Dez
>Bryant.


The concern with him was that his personal life would interfere with his career... the team can't completely control his personal life so I can understand them wanting to know just what was going on at home.

The issue with a gay player isn't actually with the player but with the teammates... are they gonna accept him in the lockerroom

I really think the concern is overblown though... it's not like every lockerroom is peaceful to begin with... or everybody HAS to get along to win.

If the gay player got talent, the lockerrom will get over it.

<-><-><-><-><-><-><-><-><->
<-><-><-><-><-><-><-><-><->

  

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Ceej
Member since Feb 16th 2006
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Wed Feb-27-13 04:43 PM

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16. "RE: Dez's situation is different"
In response to Reply # 15


  

          

I honestly think they want to know so that they can deal with what it will bring. He is going to garner a lot of attention anyway, so if they can form a game plan ahead of time to make it easier on him and the team to eliminate the potential of a season long distraction, I dont see anything wrong with it.

If the fuckin team flat-out said 'if youre gay its a no', then OBVIOUSLY that is completely wrong and unacceptable.

http://i.imgur.com/vPqCzVU.jpg

  

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soundsop
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Wed Feb-27-13 03:49 PM

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8. "RE: Can NFL teams ask if Manti is gay? Yes..certain ones can (Swipe)"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

>Which NFL franchises can and can't ask a player if he is gay?
>Can / Can't
>Atlanta Falcons / Baltimore Ravens
>Arizona Cardinals / Buffalo Bills
>Carolina Panthers / Chicago Bears
>Cincinnati Bengals / Denver Broncos
>Cleveland Browns / Green Bay Packers
>Dallas Cowboys / Minnesota Vikings
>Detroit Lions / New England Patriots
>Houston Texans / New York Giants
>Indianapolis Colts / New York Jets
>Jacksonville Jaguars / Oakland Raiders
>Kansas City Chiefs / San Diego Chargers
>Miami Dolphins San / Francisco 49ers
>New Orleans Saints / Seattle Seahawks
>Pittsburgh Steelers
>Philadelphia Eagles
>St. Louis Rams
>Tampa Bay Buccaneers
>Tennessee Titans
>Washington Redskins

teams in shitty states / teams in good states

  

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Ceej
Member since Feb 16th 2006
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Wed Feb-27-13 03:53 PM

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9. "An office and an NFL lockeroom are DIFFERENT evironments"
In response to Reply # 8


  

          

Not saying bigotry or discrimination is ever ok but to think those workplaces should be treated the same is just dumb. Is the NFL sexist since they have no women on the team?

http://i.imgur.com/vPqCzVU.jpg

  

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thejerseytornado
Member since Dec 24th 2005
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12. "what?"
In response to Reply # 9


  

          

there's no justification for homophobia trumping equal rights, NFL, office, or anywhere.

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Ceej
Member since Feb 16th 2006
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14. "I DONT DISAGREE!! "
In response to Reply # 12


  

          

>there's no justification for homophobia trumping equal
>rights, NFL, office, or anywhere.

That's not whats going on here, so keep this crusade going cuz I am not going to keep defending an acquisition that doesn't apply to me.

http://i.imgur.com/vPqCzVU.jpg

  

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thejerseytornado
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26. "they wouldn't be asking for the enlightened reason you're hoping they ar..."
In response to Reply # 14


  

          


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Tek4mula
Member since Nov 11th 2008
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61. "I mean they are different environments"
In response to Reply # 9


  

          

But I'm not seeing why the NFL should get a waiver for discrimination. Players make big money, but not nearly as much as the owner. In any business labor is a major cost, I don't really think concern for the morale of your homophobe employees is a valid reason for not wanting to hire gays.

  

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Lach
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17. "yeah they all can"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

  

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deejboram
Member since Sep 27th 2002
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29. "Gays in Sports = Gays/Women on frontline warfare in military."
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

Buncha meatheads.

  

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smutsboy
Member since Jun 29th 2002
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Thu Feb-28-13 09:27 AM

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31. "Good point."
In response to Reply # 29
Thu Feb-28-13 09:29 AM by smutsboy

  

          

Both situations are showing that in practice it simply doesn't matter* when women or gay people enter into traditionally male/hetero environments.

Example (UK armed forces) after example (US Armed forces) after example (pro athletes who later revealed they were gay).

The only people who think it matters are outsiders, blowhards, and bigots.


*in terms of team performance/success on the battlefield or the sports field

  

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Amritsar
Member since Jan 18th 2008
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52. "sports boards seem to attract tons of um "
In response to Reply # 29


  

          

wasn't the word 'f******' only very recently banned from this board ?

_______________________________________________
"Mindless populism embodied by Trump and Sanders are like a malignant wart on our body politic"

  

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Beamer6178
Member since Jan 09th 2006
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32. "The white lilberals up in this post are disgusting me"
In response to Reply # 0
Thu Feb-28-13 11:45 AM by Beamer6178

  

          

With THIS guy, who either participated or allowed a national narrative to be spun about him, only for it to be exposed as some sham/hoax/fabrication, with ALL of the various fallout that circulated, whether legal or not, it IS a relevant question to ask.

There are questions about his mental and emotional state, whether special counseling could be needed, otherwise a team would (or should) steer clear of him all together.

The fact that you fucks who won't even entertain the discussion and instead scream HOW DARE YOU NO IT DOESN'T MATTER as if his being gay is relevant to his abilities to play football is even part of the discussion are missing the entire boat.

Because as we all know, NFL locker rooms are always safe havens for any who may be perceived as less than 100% red blooded male.

  

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thejerseytornado
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33. "this type of bullshit is repulsive"
In response to Reply # 32
Thu Feb-28-13 11:57 AM by thejerseytornado

  

          

>With THIS guy, who either participated or allowed a national
>narrative to be spun about him, only for it to be exposed as
>some sham/hoax/fabrication, with ALL of the various fallout
>that circulated, whether legal or not, it IS a relevant
>question to ask.

no. his sexuality is not IN ANY WAY related to being catfished (just look at the tv show showing lots of hetero people getting played the same way).

>There are questions about his mental and emotional state,
>whether special counseling could be needed, otherwise a team
>would (or should) steer clear of him all together.

yeah, all of which is true because he got catfished, not because of his sexuality.

>The fact that you fucks who won't even entertain the
>discussion and instead scream HOW DARE YOU NO IT DOESN'T
>MATTER as if his being gay is relevant to his abilities to
>play football is even part of the discussion are missing the
>entire boat.

NO. nothing you've written has shit all to do with his sexuality. that's the point--getting catfished? reasonable thing to question. being gay? NOT REASONABLE.

>Because as we all know, NFL locker rooms are always safe
>havens for any who may be perceived as less than 100% red
>blooded male.

and because there's a repugnant culture in locker rooms, we should just say fuck it and condone that culture. got it. brilliant argument.

at least ceej's argument is based on preparing the team for the potential post-drafting fallout. but honestly, that's either based in bad planning (teams should just get prepared for this inevitable moment before it happens) or absurd optimism (you think football execs are asking out of a noble desire and wouldn't let this affect draft stock? ok. remember, these execs have been a part of the culture you're talking about for decades).

the only remotely moral means of dealing with the possibility of a player who you draft being gay and coming out of the closet is to prepare for it as a hypothetical beforehand--have a PR plan, have counselors ready, etc in case that happens on your team. It isn't to ask a draft prospect to out himself in a fucking interview.

edit: and we'll leave aside the race baiting moron part of your title.
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Ceej
Member since Feb 16th 2006
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34. "You agree this is all coming from the "Catfish" tho right?"
In response to Reply # 33


  

          

http://i.imgur.com/vPqCzVU.jpg

  

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thejerseytornado
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37. "yes. him getting catfished is the only reason anyone is thinking"
In response to Reply # 34


  

          

about his sexuality.

but the questions should be about being catfished, not his sexuality.

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Ceej
Member since Feb 16th 2006
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38. ""Did you lie about being catfished to cover up your sexuality?""
In response to Reply # 37


  

          

>about his sexuality.
>
>but the questions should be about being catfished, not his
>sexuality.

Is that question a horrific offense by a team?


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thejerseytornado
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Thu Feb-28-13 12:24 PM

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39. "why bring in the sexuality?"
In response to Reply # 38


  

          

why not "tell us why you lied about being catfished?"

why insert sexuality in this one case? why not "did you hit that girl because of your sexuality?"
"did you get drunk last night because of your sexuality?"
"did you blitz on that third down because of your sexuality?"

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Ceej
Member since Feb 16th 2006
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Thu Feb-28-13 12:31 PM

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40. "This kind of reminds me of gay marriage attackers"
In response to Reply # 39
Thu Feb-28-13 12:32 PM by Ceej

  

          

>why not "tell us why you lied about being catfished?"
>
>why insert sexuality in this one case? why not "did you hit
>that girl because of your sexuality?"
>"did you get drunk last night because of your sexuality?"
>"did you blitz on that third down because of your sexuality?"


Why not allow people to marry their pets??

I dont want to assume, but I guess the answer to my question was 'yes' since you didnt answer it all??

http://i.imgur.com/vPqCzVU.jpg

  

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thejerseytornado
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42. "i think you just completely misinterpreted"
In response to Reply # 40


  

          

my point was that bringing in sexuality is unnecessary to the point of the question (is te'o an unreliable liar and/or publicity whore). just like bringing in beastiality is unnecessary to discussions of marriage.

>I dont want to assume, but I guess the answer to my question
>was 'yes' since you didnt answer it all??

its not an appropriate question. dude's sexuality has no bearing on performance, his sexuality has no bearing on being catfished, and to in any way use his sexuality--for whatever reason you can conjure--to change whether or not you draft him or how your interview him for pre-draft discussion is to discriminate based on sexuality and as such is entirely immoral to me.

there's NO good that can come from asking a specific player about his sexuality. it's irresponsible and it privileges potential homophobia over being a moral employer.

the problem of lying about being catfishes is that he lied about being catfished. you want to see whether or not he'd lie again, sure. that's reasonable.

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Ceej
Member since Feb 16th 2006
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43. "Well I've stated my thoughts"
In response to Reply # 42


  

          

But you seem to know why they would ask the question, and that reason is different than what I was thinking so I guess there's no where to go now.

Homophobia is unacceptable and I've never felt otherwise.

http://i.imgur.com/vPqCzVU.jpg

  

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thejerseytornado
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48. "yeah. i'm the one assuming here."
In response to Reply # 43


  

          

you've presented a case where some enlightened owner/execs are asking to protect him.

when, ever, has that been the reason these types of questions are asked? seriously? anyone who is that enlightened would simply create an appropriate environment so that when someone does decide ON THEIR OWN to come out, the team is ready for it.

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Ceej
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50. "I've expressed an opinion"
In response to Reply # 48


  

          

That is 100% false because it would be a step in the right direction and NFL execs never do that and NEVER will. I'm pretty sure this whole thing began by me stating it would be an issue (not saying its okay) and you have sense agreed with that by your assessments of the culture of the NFL thus far.

Man, I know what I wanna say and i cant get it into words.

I just think if it was asked for a legit reason I dont see a problem with it, because I do feel it can shed some light for teams on what potential pit falls they may run into down the road. ie: constant media hounding leading to something unfortunate, mental fatigue that then translates to poor on field performance, more lying etc.

If they are asking him because they dont want a gay player on their team then I doubt anyone* here would co-sign that line of questioning.

http://i.imgur.com/vPqCzVU.jpg

  

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smutsboy
Member since Jun 29th 2002
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Thu Feb-28-13 02:11 PM

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51. "Pretty sure people are explicitly stating that above."
In response to Reply # 50


  

          

>If they are asking him because they dont want a gay player on their team then
>I doubt anyone* here would co-sign that line of questioning.

  

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Ceej
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53. "I did include an *"
In response to Reply # 51


  

          

As I dont like to be falsely accused of things, I didnt want to do the same.

Having said that, people are dumb, theres just no way around. I see it daily and it baffles me every time even tho I should be used to it by now.

http://i.imgur.com/vPqCzVU.jpg

  

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thejerseytornado
Member since Dec 24th 2005
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Thu Feb-28-13 02:21 PM

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55. "but that's perpetuating an unacceptable situation"
In response to Reply # 50
Thu Feb-28-13 02:23 PM by thejerseytornado

  

          

>Man, I know what I wanna say and i cant get it into words.

i understand (I think). edit: and i wasn't claiming you were homophobic, but the hypothetical nfl office in your scenario is acting as such. if it came across as personally about you, that's the flaw of internet board posting and not my intention.

>I just think if it was asked for a legit reason I dont see a
>problem with it, because I do feel it can shed some light for
>teams on what potential pit falls they may run into down the
>road. ie: constant media hounding leading to something
>unfortunate, mental fatigue that then translates to poor on
>field performance, more lying etc.

yes. it would help an enlightened team prepare for a coming out. but that's problematic because:

a. i don't believe for a second such a team exists because...
b. if such a team existed, it'd realize it should be prepared for all of that REGARDLESS of whether or not Te'o is the one to come out. because...
c. it's laughable to believe that there's no current or future player in the closet considering that other athletes in other high profile, highly homophobic sports have come out after retiring (and just in general, it's laughable that this one niche of our world doesn't have any gay talent).

the problem with worrying about those pitfalls you mention is that either the above is the better solution (just be ready for someone to come out) or you downgrade his draft stock because you don't want to take on those potential pitfalls, at which point, as an institution, you're a disgrace for being cowardly.

Basically, the "i'm not a bigot, but the media circus is too much to handle" is unfair and has the same end result as you (as in, the team) being a bigot. it's an unacceptable question because what is the desired end result?

-Te'o says no. ok, so nothing changes (problem)
-Te'o says yes, I am. Now what? And whatever the answer is--assuming it's not drop his draft grade (which is just discrimination, point blank)--why did you need to out him in order to do that?

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Ceej
Member since Feb 16th 2006
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Thu Feb-28-13 02:38 PM

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57. "RE: but that's perpetuating an unacceptable situation***"
In response to Reply # 55


  

          

>the problem with worrying about those pitfalls you mention is
>that either the above is the better solution (just be ready
>for someone to come out) or you downgrade his draft stock
>because you don't want to take on those potential pitfalls, at
>which point, as an institution, you're a disgrace for being
>cowardly.

Good point here. But are they cowards for downgrading him assuming hes going to create a media circus weekly based on the catfishing?

Reality is whether the teams should or shouldnt ask the media WILL ask and ask and ask and how else can you prepare for that??


*** I agree with that when I hear it being "slickly" tossed in to other players. Right or wrong I just think this whole Manti situation is so polarizes that a little extra inquires arent as malicious as they seem.

http://i.imgur.com/vPqCzVU.jpg

  

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thejerseytornado
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58. "because getting catfished is an act based on choice"
In response to Reply # 57


  

          

and being stupid online. being gay is not comparable.

>Reality is whether the teams should or shouldnt ask the media
>WILL ask and ask and ask and how else can you prepare for
>that??

i think that's completely legit re: the catfishing. but any rumoring about his sexuality should be treated by the team and its players as out of bounds. any media talking about it should be chastised.

>*** I agree with that when I hear it being "slickly" tossed in
>to other players. Right or wrong I just think this whole
>Manti situation is so polarizes that a little extra inquires
>arent as malicious as they seem.

extra inquiries re: his situation are fine. but they don't need to be about his sexuality. that's where the inquiry has ventured down the wrong path and i can't see how any good comes of that.

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Ceej
Member since Feb 16th 2006
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Thu Feb-28-13 02:58 PM

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59. "RE: because getting catfished is an act based on choice"
In response to Reply # 58


  

          

So whats more enlightened: my scenario or the team that thinks that line of questioning will lead to the wrong path and doesnt do it?

http://i.imgur.com/vPqCzVU.jpg

  

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thejerseytornado
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64. "the team that doesn't ask a player about his sexuality"
In response to Reply # 59


  

          

is more enlightened IF it also puts into place (or, preferably, already has) a well-formulated plan for when a player does come out of the closet on his own terms.

not asking because ignorance is bliss is bad also, possibly worse.

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smutsboy
Member since Jun 29th 2002
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Thu Feb-28-13 12:08 PM

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36. "That is basically the argument"
In response to Reply # 33


  

          

>because there's a repugnant culture in locker rooms,
>we should just say fuck it and
> condone that culture. got it. brilliant argument.

It's the equivalent of, "It's not my problem. I know it's wrong and bigoted, but I have a job to do so I'm just going to pretend like I'm not part of the problem"

  

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Beamer6178
Member since Jan 09th 2006
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45. "and goddamn YOU'RE an idiot"
In response to Reply # 33


  

          

.
>
>>Because as we all know, NFL locker rooms are always safe
>>havens for any who may be perceived as less than 100% red
>>blooded male.
>
>and because there's a repugnant culture in locker rooms, we
>should just say fuck it and condone that culture. got it.
>brilliant argument.
>

my point was that BECAUSE of the nature of said locker rooms, a proper support network should be in place for him. you guys are some shit.

  

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thejerseytornado
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Thu Feb-28-13 01:43 PM

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46. "which is true regardless of his answer, so..."
In response to Reply # 45


  

          

why ask the question?

>my point was that BECAUSE of the nature of said locker rooms,
>a proper support network should be in place for him. you guys
>are some shit.

that support network should be in place BEFORE outing a gay person, not after.


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smutsboy
Member since Jun 29th 2002
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35. "actually we're fully engaging in discussion."
In response to Reply # 32


  

          

as much as you'd like to pretend otherwise.

Also, I noticed how you conflated mental questions and homosexuality.

You just showed yourself dude. Nothing else to say.

  

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Beamer6178
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44. "goddamn you are an idiot"
In response to Reply # 35


  

          

>as much as you'd like to pretend otherwise.
>
>Also, I noticed how you conflated mental questions and
>homosexuality.
let me spell it out on an elementary level for you. one theory, because of all the conflicting information that has been given out regarding Te'o's "girlfriend" is that he wasn't "catfished" and may have been playing along with this, perhaps because it served as cover for him possibly being gay.

whether or not he just participated in the story to raise his profile or to cover his private life, as a team considering drafting him, he may have some emotional/mental/identity issues that the team would want to be able to provide a strong support system for.


>You just showed yourself dude. Nothing else to say.
>
>
and you show yourself to be a scream shout and tout how much of a proud enlightened liberal you are when in fact you're an intellectually shallow know it all.

  

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thejerseytornado
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Thu Feb-28-13 01:44 PM

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47. "oh, so because some people rumor about his sexuality"
In response to Reply # 44


  

          

it's now a legit question in an interview.

interesting theory...no problems there at all.

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smutsboy
Member since Jun 29th 2002
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Thu Feb-28-13 01:53 PM

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49. "will you chill with the personal attacks?"
In response to Reply # 44


  

          

I thought I was the one screaming and shouting - not you.

Just post your argument without name-calling like a child.

  

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Kungset
Member since Mar 29th 2004
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Thu Feb-28-13 02:14 PM

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54. "So draft him if you like him as a player"
In response to Reply # 44


  

          

And then provide the support system, which really, should be available already regardless. Asking him that question during the interview, the evaluative stage, makes it seem like their decision will be based on his sexuality no matter what their real intentions are. Which like OP states, can be illegal and is just a bad thing, IMO.

Unless we're conflating being gay or being confused about being gay with mental health disorders, then I don't know what to tell you

  

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cereffusion
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Thu Feb-28-13 02:37 PM

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56. "Ceej is right, though it shouldn't be that way"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

I'm more shocked at how many states this is legal in. I would have assumed this was across the board illegal.

  

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