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bshelly
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71482 posts
Tue Feb-05-13 01:00 PM

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"The GOAT Has Opinions: Kareem on Girls and Dumb Jocks"


  

          

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/kareem-abduljabbar/kareem-abdul-jabbar-girls-review_b_2615824.html?utm_hp_ref=entertainment&ir=Entertainment

Here's an exclusive news scoop: I'm finally coming out.

Sorry, sports fans, but it's true. After all these years, I'm ready to admit the truth: I do have many interests other than sports.

Whew, there. I've said it. Man, it feels good.

Last week I wrote a blog for The Huffington Post in which I commented on the HBO series Girls. My conclusion: Although the show strives to be a voice of its generation (or even if it doesn't, some consider it to be -- see the current cover of Entertainment Weekly), it isn't quite there yet. But it's still a worthwhile show, with a worthwhile point of view.

There was much reaction. Some questioned why a man my age would watch a show about girls in their twenties, as if they'd just discovered me hanging around a school playground with a shopping bag full of candy in one hand a fluffy puppy in the other. Of course, these critics are right. When I read Moby Dick I first had to convince the bookseller that I was a former whaler named Queequeg. When I read the poetry of Sylvia Plath, I had to pretend I was a depressed white woman with daddy issues. Don't worry, I used a fake ID.

Why did I review Girls? As I said in the review, we should all be intently listening to voices of the next generation, hearing what they have to say and, when they are struggling to say it, help them to articulate better. That's the advantage of growing older in this youth-centric society -- maybe the only advantage.

The overwhelming reaction to my review was complimentary which, because it was my first foray into pop culture reviewing, made me feel both appreciative and humbled. But even among some of the positive response was an underlying head-scratching theme: isn't it amazing that a former jock can have opinions on pop culture and articulate it with words and references to books and movies? Some mentioned my height, as if I was so tall that the air up here could not support intellectual development. It was as if, after climbing the Empire State Building and swatting bi-planes all afternoon, I suddenly decided to write a fashion article critiquing Ann Darrow's dress ("The tattered jungle look is so five minutes ago.").

What do people expect when an ex-jock discusses pop culture? "Hmmm. Magic light box have good shows. Me like some. Others make me puke Gatorade. Me give it three jock straps."

Maybe this will help: I have a degree from UCLA. I'm an amateur historian who has written books about World War II, the Harlem Renaissance, and African-American inventors. I read a lot of fiction as well as non-fiction. I watch TV and movies. I have acted in both. I have been a political activist and an advocate for children's education. How should an aging, black jock like myself know anything about pop culture? Man, I am a living part of pop culture and have been for nearly 50 years. Beyond that, I think pop culture expresses our needs, fears, hopes and whole zeitgeist better than some of the more esoteric and obscure forms of art.

What can I say to those critics except, "Don't judge me by the color of my team jersey, but by the content of my articles."

----
bshelly

"You (Fisher) could get fired, Les Snead could get fired, Kevin Demoff could get fired, but I will always be Eric Dickerson.” (c) The God

  

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Topic Outline
Subject Author Message Date ID
Now, does the bag full of candy/fluffy puppy tactic work or not?
Feb 05th 2013
1
The GOAT bringing the humor out!
Feb 05th 2013
2
I've said it for years:
Feb 05th 2013
3
AND he's the greatest basketball player of all time
Feb 05th 2013
5
Stop it.
Feb 05th 2013
37
True story
Feb 05th 2013
70
ima keep saying it until people stop being stupid and admit it
Feb 05th 2013
72
1.Jordan 2.Wilt 3.Kareem 4. Lebron
Feb 05th 2013
88
win shares: Kareem +60/nba titles: even/ncaa titles: Kareem +3
Feb 06th 2013
104
      i didn't make a list of who had a better career, it's of the best player
Feb 06th 2013
108
      fine. top season of 34/8/16.6/4.6 on 57 percent shooting
Feb 06th 2013
112
           http://www.lionsdenu.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/07/enhanced-buzz-10651-...
Feb 07th 2013
201
      Kareem is +2 in NCAA titles, not +3. but yeah...
Feb 06th 2013
132
may not be the best. but the fact that it's poo pooed as a valid
Feb 06th 2013
119
      people really liked them commercials and those sneakers
Feb 07th 2013
205
Couldn't have said it better
Feb 05th 2013
6
pops useta make me and my brother do book reports
Feb 06th 2013
95
      your pops: bad ass
Feb 06th 2013
103
and to think, Simmons dedicated a huge part of his book to trashing him
Feb 05th 2013
4
I know right. He definitely made Simmons cry many a night.
Feb 05th 2013
10
Simmons overplayed his schtick on that one.
Feb 05th 2013
19
that black dildo line killed me.
Feb 05th 2013
7
OE Ba and I been stealing Girls' fans souls in PtP
Feb 05th 2013
9
intelligent black men in their 60s and older are a dime a dozen...
Feb 05th 2013
8
you're just mad you didn't think up that black dildo line first
Feb 05th 2013
that line really does cut deep
Feb 05th 2013
13
Yes, but look at *how* he writes, Ba.
Feb 05th 2013
16
oh, i mos def agree
Feb 05th 2013
22
      come to think of it, Spree coulda filled that Cutty role on 'Girls' too
Feb 05th 2013
28
           Reggie Evans better
Feb 05th 2013
33
                they ain't ready for that
Feb 05th 2013
34
                     I say we compromise and just let Orbit_Established on there.
Feb 05th 2013
42
                          i'd have taken jaleel white, dogg
Feb 05th 2013
66
                               I initially read this as "Jahidi White"
Feb 05th 2013
78
                                    I'm done. I'm deleting my account. That's it.
Feb 05th 2013
86
                                    Breakin Hanna off with some of that Boubacar AW
Feb 05th 2013
91
                                    i've never seen the show and know next to nothing abt it
Feb 05th 2013
94
                                    Same, I'm dying at Reggie Evans and Jahidi White being on this show
Feb 06th 2013
96
                                    cosign. (and also on your other reply... props to your pops).
Feb 07th 2013
200
                                    have her shouting YA YA DIA!!!
Feb 06th 2013
135
                                         she wants to put it in her boumtje boumtje
Feb 06th 2013
153
                                              every time they show her naked, I find myself Ew-ing
Feb 06th 2013
159
                                                   Who Wants To Sex Le-Dunh-Mo?
Feb 07th 2013
254
                                                        "not me" is The Answer
Feb 07th 2013
258
                                                             http://gifsoup.com/webroot/animatedgifs4/1931376_o.gif
Feb 07th 2013
259
                                    Oh snap!
Feb 06th 2013
101
The gift and the curse of integration (c) my history professor
Feb 05th 2013
36
      no problem. i wasn't gonna talk about AI at all tho.
Feb 05th 2013
59
RE: The GOAT Has Opinions: Kareem on Girls and Dumb Jocks
Feb 05th 2013
12
Right? He dropping funny gems.
Feb 05th 2013
15
I'm amused of the thought of Kareem sitting around watching Girls
Feb 05th 2013
14
One of? How about "greatest college athlete ever."
Feb 05th 2013
18
      Eh. He was just tall.
Feb 05th 2013
21
      No doubt
Feb 05th 2013
24
           Well, damn. You shut my ass down. Props to you for keeping perspective.
Feb 05th 2013
27
Post Jack: Any athletes today that could/would ever replicate this?
Feb 05th 2013
17
chris kluwe
Feb 05th 2013
25
bosh
Feb 05th 2013
26
But would Bosh hit "send" on that article?
Feb 05th 2013
30
      he would when he 65...*shrug*
Feb 05th 2013
31
      RE: But would Bosh hit "send" on that article?
Feb 05th 2013
32
           ^^^exactly
Feb 05th 2013
35
Black baseball players are the most articulate in all of sports
Feb 05th 2013
38
Conversely, white baseball players are some of the dumbest in sports
Feb 05th 2013
43
between the 3 major sports, baseball pretty much the only one where...
Feb 05th 2013
73
Always maintained the white baseball player is the dumbest...
Feb 05th 2013
84
Wait wait wait wait wait
Feb 05th 2013
89
      Walleye is a clown!
Feb 05th 2013
90
      Oh, I misread you
Feb 06th 2013
109
      so DELMON! then?
Feb 06th 2013
105
Ill get hate for this but I think Kobe can
Feb 05th 2013
41
I think he's more of a fake smart cat.
Feb 05th 2013
44
      Yeah, I don't really understand the "Kobe is smart" meme
Feb 05th 2013
47
      Shit, even Marbury seemed more insightful when Lebron...
Feb 05th 2013
60
      his articles would be great to people that think that...
Feb 05th 2013
75
Oh and my official answer is Amare Stoudamire.
Feb 05th 2013
45
I can't remember him saying anything about anything
Feb 05th 2013
55
what? really?
Feb 05th 2013
65
Mario Balotelli
Feb 05th 2013
49
Not Derrick Rose
Feb 05th 2013
52
^^^ I really LMAO
Feb 05th 2013
54
Allison Williams' face is good
Feb 05th 2013
56
you mean the 24 yr old who rocks a Malcolm X tat?
Feb 06th 2013
98
Emeka Okafor.
Feb 05th 2013
58
never heard him talk in my life
Feb 05th 2013
61
      Graduated a year early with a 3.8 in Finance.
Feb 05th 2013
81
           no doubt. still...never heard him talk in my life.
Feb 05th 2013
82
                Nope! Duke missing out on the high-achieving Africanz!
Feb 05th 2013
85
                     semi ojeleye is on the way...
Feb 06th 2013
106
Vernon Davis
Feb 05th 2013
62
Probably Bynum, a lot of his problem is he's interested in a lot of othe...
Feb 05th 2013
74
I can see that.
Feb 05th 2013
79
yeah good one
Feb 05th 2013
87
Chris Webber, Grant Hill
Feb 05th 2013
76
They both scared.
Feb 05th 2013
80
Adonal Foyle
Feb 05th 2013
83
Alonzo Mourning
Feb 06th 2013
107
Does Etan Thomas still register?
Feb 06th 2013
110
He was the first that came to mind but I guess he's not a "current"...
Feb 06th 2013
111
KG's not funny enough, but he's definitely smart enough
Feb 06th 2013
117
McNabb
Feb 07th 2013
227
quietly this gives Girls further cultural cache/import it doesnt deserve
Feb 05th 2013
20
plus we get to bring the Girls hate party to a second forum
Feb 05th 2013
29
here's the thing though: Cap overall *LIKES* the show
Feb 05th 2013
50
At this point, I tihnk the hate is driving more discussion
Feb 05th 2013
48
Cosign.
Feb 05th 2013
57
People spend too much time & effort hating Girls
Feb 05th 2013
92
      I think you've unsequenced this post
Feb 06th 2013
113
           ^^^^this
Feb 06th 2013
114
           'Girls' was created to be debated, though. Not to be enjoyed.
Feb 06th 2013
115
                Well, shit
Feb 06th 2013
116
                No, not really.
Feb 06th 2013
118
                Fair enough, I agree with all of that.
Feb 06th 2013
120
                This was particularly lethal
Feb 06th 2013
121
                Prepare for disappointment
Feb 06th 2013
125
                     It was really boring though
Feb 06th 2013
128
                          Can it be both?
Feb 06th 2013
130
                          Sure
Feb 06th 2013
131
                          I find him a lot better as a producer than director
Feb 06th 2013
136
                               I kind of bet he can live with that
Feb 06th 2013
140
                                    To say nothing of the fact that producing is more lucrative than directi...
Feb 06th 2013
145
                the three biggest Girls fans I know can barely operate a cell phone
Feb 06th 2013
123
                     If we're to believe your rough survey of the show's fans...
Feb 06th 2013
124
                     always deflating low sample sizes.
Feb 06th 2013
126
                     I stay on message
Feb 06th 2013
129
                          I could argue that O_E's central point is slightly regressive
Feb 06th 2013
133
                               Maybe, but he was coloring within the lines he drew
Feb 06th 2013
137
                               I don't place judgment. People can like what they want.
Feb 06th 2013
138
                               see? I'd agree with this:
Feb 06th 2013
142
                               LOL. You just explained the appeal of Jersey Shore.
Feb 06th 2013
147
                                    but HERE's the difference: my friend J doesn't tell me sports are dumb
Feb 06th 2013
151
                                         Awful Analogy. Major League Baseball didn't win a Golden Globe.
Feb 06th 2013
154
                                              No, but David Eckstein wins WS MVPs going 2-13 in the first 3 games
Feb 06th 2013
157
                                              Are you saying David Eckstein is the Lena Dunham of ballplayers?
Feb 06th 2013
161
                                              No, again, we're going to Chuck Lorre
Feb 06th 2013
164
                                                   Excellent
Feb 06th 2013
165
                                                        Awww, Kevin Appier
Feb 06th 2013
169
                                                             Yep, and people will point out a seven year HOF peak...
Feb 06th 2013
181
                                                             So is Dick Wolf Nolan Ryan?
Feb 06th 2013
182
                                                             YES!
Feb 06th 2013
183
                                              Yup. And again -- people are cool with Baseball being dumb
Feb 06th 2013
162
                                                   Here's the thing, though.
Feb 06th 2013
170
                                                        C'mon. He posts about positive shit all the time.
Feb 06th 2013
172
                                                             Ken Burns has stupid hair
Feb 06th 2013
174
                                                                  Is Burns still rocking the Indigo Girls do?
Feb 06th 2013
176
                                                                  "worked"
Feb 06th 2013
178
                                                                  what's your least favorite trope? The "voice-acted" letters?
Feb 06th 2013
185
                                                                  Ha, the letters
Feb 06th 2013
186
                                                                  they did a letter in Death & the Civil War from a dying soldier writing ...
Feb 07th 2013
199
                                                                  Just wanted to say that Ken Burns bashing is a hipster favorite
Feb 07th 2013
209
                                                                  I hated Ken Burns before it was cool
Feb 07th 2013
216
                                                                  You're an actual historian and y'all hate everything
Feb 07th 2013
217
                                                                  That is not a joke
Feb 07th 2013
218
                                                                  Dude, I write about soccer, homebrew, and have a Russian film camera
Feb 07th 2013
234
                                                                  I said I was really moved by that letter presented in Death & the Civil ...
Feb 07th 2013
267
                                                                  Nah, wasn't really speaking to any of you in particular
Feb 08th 2013
301
                                              you're right -- MLB just gets called 'America's Pastime' fuck a Globe!
Feb 06th 2013
163
                               I think you're putting the cart before the horse
Feb 06th 2013
144
                                    Mechanism or intentions aren't relevant.
Feb 06th 2013
149
                                         I disagree completely.
Feb 06th 2013
155
                                              Obviously we disagree, silly
Feb 06th 2013
158
                                                   See, now we're getting into Terry Richardson territory
Feb 06th 2013
167
                               as an undergrad, I took a TV Programming course*
Feb 06th 2013
141
                                    right? like Teen Mom is anything besides a vehicle to sell to teen moms
Feb 06th 2013
143
                                         they're not selling to teen moms, they're selling to the 20-30s women
Feb 06th 2013
160
                     LMAO
Feb 06th 2013
127
                     Just what we need: another "thoughtful on gender" guy
Feb 06th 2013
134
                          oh, so you're asking a simple Q then complicating the A -- got it
Feb 06th 2013
139
                          I think that's still relatively anecdotal.
Feb 06th 2013
148
                               Didn't know this. If true, I rest my case and claim victory.
Feb 06th 2013
152
                               it is anecdotal -- isn't that the essence of viewer-response-critique?
Feb 06th 2013
156
                                    That's the real question:
Feb 06th 2013
166
                          Poor silencing technique.
Feb 06th 2013
188
                               LOL. The fuck this have to do with anything?
Feb 06th 2013
193
                                    lol. everything. it has everything to do with my point.
Feb 07th 2013
202
                                         "Directed by" is new here
Feb 07th 2013
203
                                         I was about to say something about Tina Fey
Feb 07th 2013
206
                                         difference being 30 Rock was actually a great show
Feb 07th 2013
208
                                         Ditto for "The Mindy Project"
Feb 07th 2013
210
                                         "Jamarcus Russell kinda reminds me of Randall Cunningham. "
Feb 07th 2013
211
                                              tangent alert: they're still doing that shit with jamarcus
Feb 07th 2013
212
                                              Yup. And this Tiny Fey/Dunham analogy is hilariously ironic
Feb 07th 2013
213
                                                   I did no such thing, sir.
Feb 07th 2013
229
                                              Oh, she's Josh Freeman to me, not Jamarcus
Feb 07th 2013
214
                                                   Josh Freeman isn't anything like Cunningham either, Einstein.
Feb 07th 2013
215
                                                   In that they've both held the same position, yes both groups are similar
Feb 07th 2013
220
                                                        Freeman can throw the ball far. Cunningham threw the ball far.
Feb 07th 2013
222
                                                             AND? Dunham's the head writer. Fey was the head writer.
Feb 07th 2013
228
                                                                  Seneca Wallace is a QB. Cam Newton is a QB.
Feb 07th 2013
231
                                                                       Oh so comparing things is chauvinistic?
Feb 07th 2013
233
                                                                       Fey and Dunham cast themselves as unsuccessful and unfocused
Feb 07th 2013
236
                                                                            Weird, sorta sounds like this Allen, Woody guy that people like.
Feb 07th 2013
239
                                                                            I'm not even having the sexism conversation with you
Feb 07th 2013
242
                                                                            I'm going to keep roping Mindy Kaling into this
Feb 07th 2013
240
                                                                            As is your wont.
Feb 07th 2013
243
                                                                            is Mindy's show good? I liked her on The Office & know she can write
Feb 07th 2013
245
                                                                            I really like it
Feb 07th 2013
250
                                                                            "New Girl" was a similar "grower" it sounds like
Feb 07th 2013
252
                                                                            thanks, both you & walleye, I'm gonna give it a shot
Feb 07th 2013
255
                                                                            Hooray!
Feb 07th 2013
256
                                                   This matters to me a lot
Feb 07th 2013
230
                                         it's all of the above
Feb 07th 2013
219
                                              I think that 30 Rock point is begging the question
Feb 07th 2013
225
                                                   I think tv, hollywood, pop culture and criticsm is pretty sexist
Feb 07th 2013
235
                                                        Sure, but you've got singular interlocuturs here
Feb 07th 2013
237
                                                             I think the feminist aspect of the show's significance
Feb 07th 2013
241
                                                                  The circular reasoning of post #219...
Feb 07th 2013
244
                                                                       so it wasn't until post 219
Feb 07th 2013
247
                                                                            That's when I stopped giving you the benefit of the doubt
Feb 07th 2013
249
                                         HOLD UP!!! You like it because of GENDER affirmative action!?!?!?!?
Feb 07th 2013
207
                                              so many irrelevant tangents. so much wasted words.
Feb 07th 2013
221
                                                   I am literally appalled, offended and disgusted at your stance.
Feb 07th 2013
223
                                                        you twist discussion into the most inane back-and-forth.
Feb 07th 2013
224
                                                        Then don't insinuate that I'm sexist, when clearly you are.
Feb 07th 2013
226
                                                             nah. that's just your defensiveness
Feb 07th 2013
238
                                                                  *Mutumbo Finger*
Feb 07th 2013
246
                                                                       *shrugs*
Feb 07th 2013
248
                                                        basically
Feb 07th 2013
232
from?????
Feb 05th 2013
23
damn kareem! dont hull em like that dog! they didnt know!
Feb 05th 2013
39
No way, that last episode was easily three and a half jockstraps
Feb 05th 2013
40
My mom met him in a Milwaukee grocery store back in the day
Feb 05th 2013
46
...and that's the story of how little Deebot was made
Feb 05th 2013
51
      Might be onto something...I got dat intelligence and athleticism
Feb 05th 2013
53
deep quote about being old in youth-centric society
Feb 05th 2013
63
Yeah, but my dad says he doesn't work hard enough on defense.
Feb 05th 2013
64
^^^^Underrated reply
Feb 05th 2013
68
LMAO
Feb 05th 2013
77
nice.
Feb 06th 2013
97
Hahahaha. Well played sir
Feb 06th 2013
99
HA!
Feb 06th 2013
122
lol
Feb 06th 2013
179
I like Kareem
Feb 05th 2013
67
BUST: Lena Dunham on defending the skyhook
Feb 05th 2013
69
I love this reply so much
Feb 05th 2013
71
hahaha
Feb 05th 2013
93
He was always really kinda rude to me as a kid, but he's brilliant.
Feb 06th 2013
100
http://25.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_li62avWmFu1qb619to1_500.jpg
Feb 06th 2013
102
What has this post become?
Feb 06th 2013
146
At least it's not that Gus Johnson World Cup post.
Feb 06th 2013
150
My empire of dirt
Feb 06th 2013
168
A+ post. Would read again.
Feb 06th 2013
171
I do see this as a bshelly victory, by the OKS scoring system.
Feb 06th 2013
175
lol
Feb 06th 2013
180
^^^My Sweetest Friend
Feb 06th 2013
192
Shit, the Girls debate here is 10x better than in PTP.
Feb 06th 2013
173
      Sometimes tone obscures content.
Feb 06th 2013
177
      mmhmm
Feb 06th 2013
189
      really?
Feb 06th 2013
187
           Really
Feb 06th 2013
194
                hmm, I wonder why
Feb 07th 2013
198
                     Weird, ain't it?
Feb 07th 2013
204
                          you are when you want to be
Feb 07th 2013
269
Read kareem's original HuffPo piece.
Feb 06th 2013
184
yeah i don't get it
Feb 06th 2013
190
Ive watched-it's not anywhere near great & it's not total garbage either
Feb 06th 2013
191
yeah i'll never watch an episode
Feb 06th 2013
196
HBO does that...
Feb 07th 2013
261
Watch it and like it quite a bit. I understand others not liking it tho
Feb 07th 2013
260
ctrl+f "messi"
Feb 06th 2013
195
http://gifsoup.com/webroot/animatedgifs6/2018857_o.gif
Feb 06th 2013
197
I am the most feminist poster here. In the world, probably.
Feb 07th 2013
251
^^^Fakes It So Real Is Beyond Fake
Feb 07th 2013
257
Hey, I'm not encumbered with white guilt like most of you are.
Feb 07th 2013
262
      If this ain't the most latte-sippin' reply I've ever read on OKP
Feb 07th 2013
263
      Man, I don't even have cable.
Feb 07th 2013
264
           Hey, don't hate me because I'm beautiful.
Feb 07th 2013
265
           again, I write about soccer, homebrew, own a russian film camera
Feb 07th 2013
266
                Now, see, I don't even really know what a hipster is.
Feb 07th 2013
268
                     That's a bingo!
Feb 08th 2013
270
                          What's the "maker movement?"
Feb 08th 2013
282
                               home-making a lot of shit
Feb 08th 2013
283
                                    So shit men should know how to do anyway, but now it's a "movement."
Feb 08th 2013
284
                                    Are there even enough bees for that?
Feb 08th 2013
285
                                    Well, maybe not that one.
Feb 08th 2013
287
                                    yeah. shit like this, basically
Feb 08th 2013
286
                                         Sorry, I don't click on links with the word "artisanal."
Feb 08th 2013
289
                                         I blame Ron Swanson
Feb 08th 2013
290
                                              As much as I like the character, his popularity is strange
Feb 08th 2013
293
                                                   agreed on all points (I think he's a hipster lumberjack)
Feb 08th 2013
295
                                                   Watch more carefully; I think he's squick free
Feb 08th 2013
297
                                                        Ron Swanson is awesome, it's just his popularity that is strange
Feb 08th 2013
298
                                                             That makes sense
Feb 08th 2013
299
                                    how is this different than DIY? when will riot grrrlz get their due?
Feb 08th 2013
288
                                         hah. Riot grrlz getting their due. That's cute, cel.
Feb 08th 2013
292
                                              phew! looks like NorCal BS. I hereby revert to my default, blame hippies
Feb 08th 2013
294
smutsboy makes the most sense in here
Feb 07th 2013
253
Has anyone ripped Veronica Mars yet?
Feb 08th 2013
271
What kind of Internet Nerd ARE you?
Feb 08th 2013
272
Then whatever else you're doing right now is an absurd waste of time
Feb 08th 2013
274
existentially you're right. man. . .
Feb 08th 2013
275
      I laughed
Feb 08th 2013
276
i just wanted to keep Walleye's attention
Feb 08th 2013
279
      I'm supposed to be writing right now
Feb 08th 2013
281
           His third "age comparison" on BRef is Jason Kendall
Feb 08th 2013
291
                That one has been haunting him for a half-decade now
Feb 08th 2013
296
                     Will Clark isn't great for his HoF potential either.
Feb 08th 2013
303
                          Yes, but put Will Clark behind the plate for 1,000* games
Feb 08th 2013
304
                               They left Piazza off because Murray effing Chass saw some bacne
Feb 08th 2013
305
                                    RE: They left Piazza off because Murray effing Chass saw some bacne
Feb 08th 2013
306
That shouldn't be said, even as an attention-getting joke
Feb 08th 2013
273
      holla at a playa when you see me in the streets!
Feb 08th 2013
277
           Will dew
Feb 08th 2013
278
                the party tricks are the best part
Feb 08th 2013
280
I saw about 15 minutes of this show last month
Feb 08th 2013
300
It was written, directed, produced by and stars a rich white woman.
Feb 08th 2013
302
      to quote another rich yt woman those types love:"there's no there there"
Feb 08th 2013
307
           Excellent
Feb 10th 2013
309
Hey, Lew Alcindor stick to being a bitter castout
Feb 10th 2013
308

Buck
Member since Feb 15th 2005
15218 posts
Tue Feb-05-13 12:39 PM

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1. "Now, does the bag full of candy/fluffy puppy tactic work or not?"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

I'm just asking for a friend though.

  

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TheRealBillyOcean
Charter member
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Tue Feb-05-13 12:43 PM

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2. "The GOAT bringing the humor out!"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

Yesssss!

He might be my favorite athlete ever.

<---https://www.amazon.com/dp/B01DL9AVTQ

  

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Orbit_Established
Member since Oct 27th 2002
52563 posts
Tue Feb-05-13 12:51 PM

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3. "I've said it for years:"
In response to Reply # 0
Tue Feb-05-13 01:11 PM by Orbit_Established

  

          



He is one of the most impressive, fascinating people
in the history of anything.

I've read a good chunk of several of his books. They are
good. VERY fucking good.

He routinely hangs out at Ivy league libraries, just
studying, comes completely unannounced, no interest
in celebrity whatsoever. Be in the stacks finding
books, doing his research.

Dude is just a marvel of a person.

  

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bshelly
Charter member
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Tue Feb-05-13 12:55 PM

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5. "AND he's the greatest basketball player of all time"
In response to Reply # 3


  

          

pretty impressive package.

----
bshelly

"You (Fisher) could get fired, Les Snead could get fired, Kevin Demoff could get fired, but I will always be Eric Dickerson.” (c) The God

  

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RaFromQueens
Member since Apr 18th 2006
19528 posts
Tue Feb-05-13 01:38 PM

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37. "Stop it."
In response to Reply # 5


  

          

---
"People that need positivity around them all the time are weak individuals in my book" - @lilduval

  

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ThaTruth
Charter member
88939 posts
Tue Feb-05-13 03:26 PM

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70. "True story"
In response to Reply # 5


  

          

  

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bshelly
Charter member
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Tue Feb-05-13 03:33 PM

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72. "ima keep saying it until people stop being stupid and admit it"
In response to Reply # 70


  

          

----
bshelly

"You (Fisher) could get fired, Les Snead could get fired, Kevin Demoff could get fired, but I will always be Eric Dickerson.” (c) The God

  

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Ill Jux
Member since Jan 19th 2007
14672 posts
Tue Feb-05-13 08:34 PM

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88. "1.Jordan 2.Wilt 3.Kareem 4. Lebron"
In response to Reply # 5


  

          

______

in the memory of NYC upt JUX�

<--- don't front, you'd smash

  

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bshelly
Charter member
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Wed Feb-06-13 07:16 AM

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104. "win shares: Kareem +60/nba titles: even/ncaa titles: Kareem +3"
In response to Reply # 88


  

          

the only way jordan had a better career than kareem is selling sneakers.

----
bshelly

"You (Fisher) could get fired, Les Snead could get fired, Kevin Demoff could get fired, but I will always be Eric Dickerson.” (c) The God

  

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Ill Jux
Member since Jan 19th 2007
14672 posts
Wed Feb-06-13 08:47 AM

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108. "i didn't make a list of who had a better career, it's of the best player"
In response to Reply # 104
Wed Feb-06-13 08:47 AM by Ill Jux

  

          

i don't give a fuck about win shares, save that faggotry for baseball

______

in the memory of NYC upt JUX�

<--- don't front, you'd smash

  

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bshelly
Charter member
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Wed Feb-06-13 10:59 AM

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112. "fine. top season of 34/8/16.6/4.6 on 57 percent shooting"
In response to Reply # 108


  

          

jordan was never that good.

----
bshelly

"You (Fisher) could get fired, Les Snead could get fired, Kevin Demoff could get fired, but I will always be Eric Dickerson.” (c) The God

  

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AlBundy
Member since May 27th 2002
9621 posts
Thu Feb-07-13 03:16 AM

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201. "http://www.lionsdenu.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/07/enhanced-buzz-10651-..."
In response to Reply # 112


  

          

http://www.lionsdenu.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/07/enhanced-buzz-10651-1311198419-12.jpg

-------------------------
The other dude after me didnt help my case. It was just likecrazy nigga factory going on.
Dre makes no apologies for his own eccentricities. I was young, and searching, trying to find myself, he says. Never did.-- Andre B

  

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KosherSam
Member since Mar 18th 2004
70131 posts
Wed Feb-06-13 01:24 PM

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132. "Kareem is +2 in NCAA titles, not +3. but yeah..."
In response to Reply # 104


  

          

*Jews you*

"this is okp tho, reading is completely optional" (c) desus

Proceed with caution. I am overtly racist.

<-- In Pigpen we trust

  

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El_essence
Charter member
24899 posts
Wed Feb-06-13 12:24 PM

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119. "may not be the best. but the fact that it's poo pooed as a valid"
In response to Reply # 5


  

          

argument is retarded.

  

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bshelly
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71482 posts
Thu Feb-07-13 10:18 AM

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205. "people really liked them commercials and those sneakers"
In response to Reply # 119


  

          

and are easily brainwashed.

----
bshelly

"You (Fisher) could get fired, Les Snead could get fired, Kevin Demoff could get fired, but I will always be Eric Dickerson.” (c) The God

  

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Kungset
Member since Mar 29th 2004
6327 posts
Tue Feb-05-13 12:55 PM

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6. "Couldn't have said it better"
In response to Reply # 3


  

          

  

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dula dibiasi
Member since Apr 05th 2004
21925 posts
Wed Feb-06-13 12:08 AM

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95. "pops useta make me and my brother do book reports"
In response to Reply # 3


  

          

like extracurricular as fuck. nothing to do w the shit we were learning in school. just for him.

i remember the first 3 we got assigned were malcolm, soul on ice, and kareem's autobio giant steps. i was maybe 10 or 11. been a huge fan ever since.

i just related to the cat from jump. and that affinity only continued to grow as i got older. he was a thinker. brooding. sort of a loner, standoffish. cerebral. moody. sarcastic. bit of an asshole. gave a shit about things that actually matter. a kindred spirit. reminded me of me.

most of my favorite athletes are from that era. jim brown. russell. ashe. ali. kareem is right up there on that list. def one of my all timers.

___

it is a capital mistake to theorize before one has data. insensibly one begins to twist facts to suit theories, instead of theories to suit facts. - sherlock holmes

  

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bshelly
Charter member
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Wed Feb-06-13 07:14 AM

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103. "your pops: bad ass"
In response to Reply # 95


  

          

----
bshelly

"You (Fisher) could get fired, Les Snead could get fired, Kevin Demoff could get fired, but I will always be Eric Dickerson.” (c) The God

  

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celery77
Member since Aug 04th 2005
25306 posts
Tue Feb-05-13 12:53 PM

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4. "and to think, Simmons dedicated a huge part of his book to trashing him"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

the crazy things sports make us do...

___________

HOPE!
https://vine.co/v/i7JjIBL3Qix
https://vine.co/v/i7JtqEFwxDu

  

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TheRealBillyOcean
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37943 posts
Tue Feb-05-13 12:59 PM

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10. "I know right. He definitely made Simmons cry many a night."
In response to Reply # 4


  

          

<---https://www.amazon.com/dp/B01DL9AVTQ

  

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Orbit_Established
Member since Oct 27th 2002
52563 posts
Tue Feb-05-13 01:13 PM

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19. "Simmons overplayed his schtick on that one. "
In response to Reply # 4


  

          


His "I'm an annoying white Boston fan" thing has
charm and it did show in that book.

Like, his Russell vs. Wilt debate...he was wrong
(as is everyone who picks Russell), but I appreciated
his point even though his bias was clear.

But dissing the Cap?

Nah.

----------------------------



O_E: "Acts like an asshole and posts with imperial disdain"




"I ORBITs the solar system, listenin..."

(C)Keith Murray, "

  

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BrooklynWHAT
Member since Jun 15th 2007
78335 posts
Tue Feb-05-13 12:56 PM

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7. "that black dildo line killed me."
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

<--- Big Baller World Order

  

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bshelly
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Tue Feb-05-13 12:59 PM

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9. "OE Ba and I been stealing Girls' fans souls in PtP"
In response to Reply # 7
Tue Feb-05-13 01:00 PM by bshelly

  

          

this is kind of like three young bols schooling all comers on the playground all day, then they hear a deep, dignified, quiet voice say "yo, i want to run with THEM."

and they turn, and it's Kareem Abdul Jabbar.

that's what this is like.

----
bshelly

"You (Fisher) could get fired, Les Snead could get fired, Kevin Demoff could get fired, but I will always be Eric Dickerson.” (c) The God

  

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Basaglia
Member since Nov 30th 2004
49377 posts
Tue Feb-05-13 12:56 PM

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8. "intelligent black men in their 60s and older are a dime a dozen..."
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

this ain't a surprise. they come from an era where being smart was encouraged and absolutely necessary.

i'd be far more impressed if spree wrote those articles.

____________________________________________________


Steph: I was just fooling about

Kyrie: I wasn't.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R8OWNspU_yE

  

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bshelly
Charter member
71482 posts
Tue Feb-05-13 12:59 PM

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"you're just mad you didn't think up that black dildo line first"


  

          

that's good.

----
bshelly

"You (Fisher) could get fired, Les Snead could get fired, Kevin Demoff could get fired, but I will always be Eric Dickerson.” (c) The God

  

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Basaglia
Member since Nov 30th 2004
49377 posts
Tue Feb-05-13 01:02 PM

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13. "that line really does cut deep"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

____________________________________________________


Steph: I was just fooling about

Kyrie: I wasn't.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R8OWNspU_yE

  

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Orbit_Established
Member since Oct 27th 2002
52563 posts
Tue Feb-05-13 01:09 PM

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16. "Yes, but look at *how* he writes, Ba."
In response to Reply # 8


  

          


Its not just that he's a curious, scholarly guy.

That you're right about -- old black men are
like that.

But Cap that has quirk, and sense of humor, and is
self reflective...all that uncanny shit that this
young generation of black "look at me, I'm so different"
folks tries so hard to have.

He has it, despite being one of the greatest athletes
to ever live, with no reason whatsoever to be humble
at anything (even more than Cheese -- ain't no gambling
problems with Cap. Ain't no sucking at baseball with Cap.
Cap been good forever and ever. Like, all the time).

Dude is just a beast.

----------------------------



O_E: "Acts like an asshole and posts with imperial disdain"




"I ORBITs the solar system, listenin..."

(C)Keith Murray, "

  

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Basaglia
Member since Nov 30th 2004
49377 posts
Tue Feb-05-13 01:15 PM

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22. "oh, i mos def agree"
In response to Reply # 16
Tue Feb-05-13 01:25 PM by Basaglia

  

          

but, i think the fact that he can write at all, and on subjects other than sports, is a shock to people....because he's a black athlete. actually, you know what....heavy emphasis on ATHLETE. people just think athletes are dumb, dogg. period.

he's clearly a very good writer. i'm just saying if bill russell had written it, i wouldn't have been shocked.

or bob gibson
or coach thompson
or the big o
or dave bing


old black men just do not surprise me with the depth and scope of their interest and the displays of their wit and intelligence.

this simply isn't a surprise, dogg.

now, SPREE? oh, i'd be partying.

____________________________________________________


Steph: I was just fooling about

Kyrie: I wasn't.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R8OWNspU_yE

  

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Bombastic
Charter member
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Tue Feb-05-13 01:27 PM

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28. "come to think of it, Spree coulda filled that Cutty role on 'Girls' too"
In response to Reply # 22


  

          

>but, i think the fact that he can write at all, and on
>subjects other than sports, is a shock to people....because
>he's a black athlete. actually, you know what....heavy
>emphasis on ATHLETE. people just think athletes are dumb,
>dogg. period.
>
>he's clearly a very good writer. i'm just saying if bill
>russell had written it, i wouldn't have been shocked.
>
>or bob gibson
>or coach thompson
>or the big o
>or dave bing
>
>
>old black men just do not surprise me with the depth and scope
>of their interest and the displays of their wit and
>intelligence.
>
>this simply isn't a surprise, dogg.
>
>now, SPREE? oh, i'd be partying.

  

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bshelly
Charter member
71482 posts
Tue Feb-05-13 01:33 PM

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33. "Reggie Evans better"
In response to Reply # 28


  

          

----
bshelly

"You (Fisher) could get fired, Les Snead could get fired, Kevin Demoff could get fired, but I will always be Eric Dickerson.” (c) The God

  

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Basaglia
Member since Nov 30th 2004
49377 posts
Tue Feb-05-13 01:36 PM

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34. "they ain't ready for that"
In response to Reply # 33


  

          

____________________________________________________


Steph: I was just fooling about

Kyrie: I wasn't.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R8OWNspU_yE

  

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Orbit_Established
Member since Oct 27th 2002
52563 posts
Tue Feb-05-13 01:42 PM

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42. "I say we compromise and just let Orbit_Established on there. "
In response to Reply # 34


  

          


I'll be on there humpin with a doo-rag on, making
Crisis on Infinite Earth references between grunts

I even got tattoos

Everybody will be happy

Ratings will soar


----------------------------



O_E: "Acts like an asshole and posts with imperial disdain"




"I ORBITs the solar system, listenin..."

(C)Keith Murray, "

  

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Basaglia
Member since Nov 30th 2004
49377 posts
Tue Feb-05-13 02:40 PM

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66. "i'd have taken jaleel white, dogg"
In response to Reply # 42


  

          

____________________________________________________


Steph: I was just fooling about

Kyrie: I wasn't.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R8OWNspU_yE

  

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TheRealBillyOcean
Charter member
37943 posts
Tue Feb-05-13 06:10 PM

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78. "I initially read this as "Jahidi White""
In response to Reply # 66


  

          

<---https://www.amazon.com/dp/B01DL9AVTQ

  

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Orbit_Established
Member since Oct 27th 2002
52563 posts
Tue Feb-05-13 06:53 PM

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86. "I'm done. I'm deleting my account. That's it. "
In response to Reply # 78


  

          


That caught me of guard

----------------------------



O_E: "Acts like an asshole and posts with imperial disdain"




"I ORBITs the solar system, listenin..."

(C)Keith Murray, "

  

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Bombastic
Charter member
88860 posts
Tue Feb-05-13 11:08 PM

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91. "Breakin Hanna off with some of that Boubacar AW"
In response to Reply # 78


  

          

  

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dula dibiasi
Member since Apr 05th 2004
21925 posts
Tue Feb-05-13 11:43 PM

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94. "i've never seen the show and know next to nothing abt it"
In response to Reply # 91


  

          

but this entire exchange slayed me

nigga said crisis on infinite earths.

lmao @ dat jahidi.

___

it is a capital mistake to theorize before one has data. insensibly one begins to twist facts to suit theories, instead of theories to suit facts. - sherlock holmes

  

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MothershipConnection
Member since Nov 22nd 2003
7498 posts
Wed Feb-06-13 12:10 AM

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96. "Same, I'm dying at Reggie Evans and Jahidi White being on this show"
In response to Reply # 94


  

          

And the closest I've come to seeing this show is boning a girl who looks like long hair Lena Dunham.

  

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poetx
Charter member
57951 posts
Thu Feb-07-13 01:32 AM

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200. "cosign. (and also on your other reply... props to your pops). "
In response to Reply # 94


  

          

malcolm, soulon ice, and giant steps. that's three the hard way.

and all that shit you dug about kareem... ditto.


peace & blessings,

x.

www.twitter.com/poetx

=========================================
** i move away from the mic to breathe in

  

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KosherSam
Member since Mar 18th 2004
70131 posts
Wed Feb-06-13 01:26 PM

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135. "have her shouting YA YA DIA!!!"
In response to Reply # 91


  

          

*Jews you*

"this is okp tho, reading is completely optional" (c) desus

Proceed with caution. I am overtly racist.

<-- In Pigpen we trust

  

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Bombastic
Charter member
88860 posts
Wed Feb-06-13 02:00 PM

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153. "she wants to put it in her boumtje boumtje"
In response to Reply # 135


  

          

  

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KosherSam
Member since Mar 18th 2004
70131 posts
Wed Feb-06-13 02:14 PM

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159. "every time they show her naked, I find myself Ew-ing"
In response to Reply # 153


  

          

*Jews you*

"this is okp tho, reading is completely optional" (c) desus

Proceed with caution. I am overtly racist.

<-- In Pigpen we trust

  

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Bombastic
Charter member
88860 posts
Thu Feb-07-13 01:03 PM

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254. "Who Wants To Sex Le-Dunh-Mo?"
In response to Reply # 159


  

          

  

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KosherSam
Member since Mar 18th 2004
70131 posts
Thu Feb-07-13 01:44 PM

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258. ""not me" is The Answer"
In response to Reply # 254


  

          

*Jews you*

"this is okp tho, reading is completely optional" (c) desus

Proceed with caution. I am overtly racist.

<-- In Pigpen we trust

  

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Bombastic
Charter member
88860 posts
Thu Feb-07-13 02:02 PM

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259. "http://gifsoup.com/webroot/animatedgifs4/1931376_o.gif"
In response to Reply # 258


  

          

http://gifsoup.com/webroot/animatedgifs4/1931376_o.gif

  

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isaaaa
Member since May 10th 2007
30417 posts
Wed Feb-06-13 04:05 AM

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101. "Oh snap!"
In response to Reply # 78


          


After Holiday Sale, take advantage of 25% off www.karmaloop.com w/ rep code JR9103 | Nike, G-Star, Spiewak, etc.
+ a full line of Women's wear (Jeffrey Campbell, etc.)

  

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ShawndmeSlanted
Member since Oct 30th 2004
42530 posts
Tue Feb-05-13 01:37 PM

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36. "The gift and the curse of integration (c) my history professor"
In response to Reply # 8
Tue Feb-05-13 01:38 PM by ShawndmeSlanted

  

          

would be a nice little topic for yall to talk about on fiyastarter though--better than the AI bad dad shit if you were thinking about it.

Thanks for the shoutout last week.

---
"though time has passed, im still the future" (c) black thought

  

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Basaglia
Member since Nov 30th 2004
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Tue Feb-05-13 02:08 PM

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59. "no problem. i wasn't gonna talk about AI at all tho. "
In response to Reply # 36


  

          

____________________________________________________


Steph: I was just fooling about

Kyrie: I wasn't.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R8OWNspU_yE

  

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murph71
Member since Sep 15th 2005
23113 posts
Tue Feb-05-13 12:59 PM

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12. "RE: The GOAT Has Opinions: Kareem on Girls and Dumb Jocks"
In response to Reply # 0


          




This had me howling.....

"What do people expect when an ex-jock discusses pop culture? 'Hmmm. Magic light box have good shows. Me like some. Others make me puke Gatorade. Me give it three jock straps.'"


^^^That's good satire, folks...

GOAT of his era......long live Prince.....God is alive....

  

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TheRealBillyOcean
Charter member
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15. "Right? He dropping funny gems. "
In response to Reply # 12


  

          

<---https://www.amazon.com/dp/B01DL9AVTQ

  

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MothershipConnection
Member since Nov 22nd 2003
7498 posts
Tue Feb-05-13 01:02 PM

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14. "I'm amused of the thought of Kareem sitting around watching Girls"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

Like him, sitting at home in his PJs on a Thursday night with a bucket of ice cream, receiving and ignoring texts from Bill Walton, watching episodes of Girls like "this some bullshit".

But I have huge, huge respect for the man, one of the great Bruins of all-time and one of the most fascinating people ever.

  

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Orbit_Established
Member since Oct 27th 2002
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Tue Feb-05-13 01:12 PM

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18. "One of? How about "greatest college athlete ever." "
In response to Reply # 14


  

          

> one of the great
>Bruins of all-time and one of the most fascinating people
>ever.

People seem to have forgotten how good Cap is


----------------------------



O_E: "Acts like an asshole and posts with imperial disdain"




"I ORBITs the solar system, listenin..."

(C)Keith Murray, "

  

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Buck
Member since Feb 15th 2005
15218 posts
Tue Feb-05-13 01:15 PM

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21. "Eh. He was just tall."
In response to Reply # 18


  

          

*runs away*

  

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MothershipConnection
Member since Nov 22nd 2003
7498 posts
Tue Feb-05-13 01:19 PM

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24. "No doubt"
In response to Reply # 18


  

          

It was more of a nod to guys like Jackie Robinson and Arthur Ashe as well. College athletics has a lot of bullshit associated with it but I'm proud UCLA has produced some guys that are well rounded as people.

  

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Orbit_Established
Member since Oct 27th 2002
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27. "Well, damn. You shut my ass down. Props to you for keeping perspective."
In response to Reply # 24


  

          

>It was more of a nod to guys like Jackie Robinson and Arthur
>Ashe as well. College athletics has a lot of bullshit
>associated with it but I'm proud UCLA has produced some guys
>that are well rounded as people.

n/m


----------------------------



O_E: "Acts like an asshole and posts with imperial disdain"




"I ORBITs the solar system, listenin..."

(C)Keith Murray, "

  

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TheRealBillyOcean
Charter member
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17. "Post Jack: Any athletes today that could/would ever replicate this?"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

More along the lines of "they don't make them like that anymore".

There's no Ali's. No Jim Brown's. No Bill Russell's. No Kareem's.

But who exists today, that might ever say some thoughtful shit, even if it's about something as ridiculous as the show "Girls"?

The only one I could come up with is possibly Arian. Maybe Joakhim.

I don't have much else.

<---https://www.amazon.com/dp/B01DL9AVTQ

  

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soundsop
Charter member
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25. "chris kluwe"
In response to Reply # 17


  

          

from????

  

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Basaglia
Member since Nov 30th 2004
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26. "bosh"
In response to Reply # 17


  

          

____________________________________________________


Steph: I was just fooling about

Kyrie: I wasn't.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R8OWNspU_yE

  

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TheRealBillyOcean
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30. "But would Bosh hit "send" on that article?"
In response to Reply # 26


  

          

And

Would Bosh demand respect of others to read it?

Cuz everyone takes shots at Bosh. People who don't even watch sports.

And he's always doing weird shit like that money shot when they won the chip.

<---https://www.amazon.com/dp/B01DL9AVTQ

  

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Basaglia
Member since Nov 30th 2004
49377 posts
Tue Feb-05-13 01:31 PM

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31. "he would when he 65...*shrug*"
In response to Reply # 30


  

          

____________________________________________________


Steph: I was just fooling about

Kyrie: I wasn't.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R8OWNspU_yE

  

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bshelly
Charter member
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Tue Feb-05-13 01:31 PM

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32. "RE: But would Bosh hit "send" on that article?"
In response to Reply # 30


  

          

http://i.imgur.com/6LJDz.gif

----
bshelly

"You (Fisher) could get fired, Les Snead could get fired, Kevin Demoff could get fired, but I will always be Eric Dickerson.” (c) The God

  

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TheRealBillyOcean
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35. "^^^exactly"
In response to Reply # 32


  

          

<---https://www.amazon.com/dp/B01DL9AVTQ

  

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Orbit_Established
Member since Oct 27th 2002
52563 posts
Tue Feb-05-13 01:38 PM

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38. "Black baseball players are the most articulate in all of sports"
In response to Reply # 17
Tue Feb-05-13 01:40 PM by Orbit_Established

  

          


Low key

Any race, any sport

There's a reason they are overrepresented in broadcasts
and shows...they get into interviews and destroy their
competition

Compare Schilling and Kruk to Barry Larkin and Chris Singleton
and Doug Glanville on ESPN

No competition whatsoever

And even current players: Rollins and Sabathia and
Hunter...all are remarkably smart guys

Black baseball players are also the most race conscious
for various reasons.

----------------------------



O_E: "Acts like an asshole and posts with imperial disdain"




"I ORBITs the solar system, listenin..."

(C)Keith Murray, "

  

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MothershipConnection
Member since Nov 22nd 2003
7498 posts
Tue Feb-05-13 01:45 PM

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43. "Conversely, white baseball players are some of the dumbest in sports"
In response to Reply # 38
Tue Feb-05-13 02:02 PM by MothershipConnection

  

          

I don't know how it came about, but the Jeff Kents and John Rockers seem to outnumber the Greg Maddux's about 2 to 1.

  

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ThaTruth
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73. "between the 3 major sports, baseball pretty much the only one where..."
In response to Reply # 43


  

          

a white person can make it to the professional level without spending a lot of time with and around black people.

  

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mrhood75
Member since Dec 06th 2004
42297 posts
Tue Feb-05-13 06:46 PM

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84. "Always maintained the white baseball player is the dumbest..."
In response to Reply # 43
Tue Feb-05-13 06:46 PM by mrhood75

  

          

...type of human being on the planet. Doesn't matter what region of the country they're from, they're almost uniformly stupid.

-----------------

www.albumism.com

Checkin' Our Style, Return To Zero:

https://www.mixcloud.com/returntozero/

  

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Walleye
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89. "Wait wait wait wait wait"
In response to Reply # 38


          

>Chris Singleton

No.

______________________________

"Walleye, a lot of things are going to go wrong in your life that technically aren't your fault. Always remember that this doesn't make you any less of an idiot"

--Walleye's Dad

  

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Orbit_Established
Member since Oct 27th 2002
52563 posts
Tue Feb-05-13 11:05 PM

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90. "Walleye is a clown!"
In response to Reply # 89


  

          

>>Chris Singleton
>
>No.

He's not articulate?

  

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Walleye
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109. "Oh, I misread you"
In response to Reply # 90
Wed Feb-06-13 08:57 AM by Walleye

          

I don't think he's smart. Maybe he was, once. But he worked for the White Sox for awhile and they don't tolerate intelligence in their broadcast employees.

But "articulate" and "smart" are different qualities. So, carry on then.

______________________________

"Walleye, a lot of things are going to go wrong in your life that technically aren't your fault. Always remember that this doesn't make you any less of an idiot"

--Walleye's Dad

  

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bshelly
Charter member
71482 posts
Wed Feb-06-13 07:17 AM

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105. "so DELMON! then?"
In response to Reply # 89


  

          

----
bshelly

"You (Fisher) could get fired, Les Snead could get fired, Kevin Demoff could get fired, but I will always be Eric Dickerson.” (c) The God

  

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ShawndmeSlanted
Member since Oct 30th 2004
42530 posts
Tue Feb-05-13 01:40 PM

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41. "Ill get hate for this but I think Kobe can"
In response to Reply # 17


  

          

maybe not quite this level of writing with tone and nuance...but Kobe's actually a pretty smart dude about a lot of different things in that "historian of the game" sense. Similar to Mike Tyson.

---
"though time has passed, im still the future" (c) black thought

  

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TheRealBillyOcean
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44. "I think he's more of a fake smart cat."
In response to Reply # 41


  

          

Like he'll try to come off as smart by speaking Italian or name dropping something foreign, but really has nothing thoughtful to add.

More pretentious than intelligent.

<---https://www.amazon.com/dp/B01DL9AVTQ

  

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Orbit_Established
Member since Oct 27th 2002
52563 posts
Tue Feb-05-13 01:49 PM

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47. "Yeah, I don't really understand the "Kobe is smart" meme"
In response to Reply # 44


  

          


He's never really come across as particularly
intelligent

I think its just a class thing -- his family had
money, he went to a good school, speaks several
languages

That shit is all circumstance

Lebron is more insightful when you compare him
comment for comment

----------------------------



O_E: "Acts like an asshole and posts with imperial disdain"




"I ORBITs the solar system, listenin..."

(C)Keith Murray, "

  

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TheRealBillyOcean
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37943 posts
Tue Feb-05-13 02:10 PM

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60. "Shit, even Marbury seemed more insightful when Lebron..."
In response to Reply # 47


  

          

tried to get at him for sneaker pricing and he told Bron, "He'd rather own than be owned."

<---https://www.amazon.com/dp/B01DL9AVTQ

  

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rl9
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Tue Feb-05-13 05:32 PM

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75. "his articles would be great to people that think that..."
In response to Reply # 44


  

          

jump passes are the right way to set their centers up.


''i went from bashful to asshole to international''- CdoubleO

  

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Orbit_Established
Member since Oct 27th 2002
52563 posts
Tue Feb-05-13 01:48 PM

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45. "Oh and my official answer is Amare Stoudamire. "
In response to Reply # 17


  

          


He's humble, doesn't say much but is clearly an
incredibly insightful guy.

----------------------------



O_E: "Acts like an asshole and posts with imperial disdain"




"I ORBITs the solar system, listenin..."

(C)Keith Murray, "

  

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TheRealBillyOcean
Charter member
37943 posts
Tue Feb-05-13 02:05 PM

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55. "I can't remember him saying anything about anything"
In response to Reply # 45


  

          

<---https://www.amazon.com/dp/B01DL9AVTQ

  

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Kungset
Member since Mar 29th 2004
6327 posts
Tue Feb-05-13 02:40 PM

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65. "what? really?"
In response to Reply # 45


  

          

he may be insightful, don't really know, but he's gonna have to go back to school for a while at least. i mean he has a certain ignorance about him, not to say he's dumb, just needs to get more worldly i guess. i mean he's been quoted as being confused by the existence of the franc, never heard about prohibition, & never heard of atlantic city.

  

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celery77
Member since Aug 04th 2005
25306 posts
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49. "Mario Balotelli"
In response to Reply # 17


  

          

___________

HOPE!
https://vine.co/v/i7JjIBL3Qix
https://vine.co/v/i7JtqEFwxDu

  

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Deebot
Member since Oct 21st 2004
26640 posts
Tue Feb-05-13 02:01 PM

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52. "Not Derrick Rose"
In response to Reply # 17


  

          

He would just use the adjective "good" repeatedly until the review mercifully came to an end.

================================

"Brownsville, never ran never will unless you strapped and I'm not fuck it I gotta peel, P!"

-Sean Price

  

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TheRealBillyOcean
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37943 posts
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54. "^^^ I really LMAO"
In response to Reply # 52


  

          

<---https://www.amazon.com/dp/B01DL9AVTQ

  

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Deebot
Member since Oct 21st 2004
26640 posts
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56. "Allison Williams' face is good"
In response to Reply # 54


  

          

================================

"Brownsville, never ran never will unless you strapped and I'm not fuck it I gotta peel, P!"

-Sean Price

  

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RandomFact
Member since Dec 10th 2005
8104 posts
Wed Feb-06-13 12:22 AM

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98. "you mean the 24 yr old who rocks a Malcolm X tat?"
In response to Reply # 52


  

          

he may speak like shit, but this may be the gulliest tattoo in sports... http://25.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_m8njmjwAcx1rwq7s3o1_500.jpg

  

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Castro
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Tue Feb-05-13 02:05 PM

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58. "Emeka Okafor."
In response to Reply # 17


  

          

------------------
One Hundred.

  

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Basaglia
Member since Nov 30th 2004
49377 posts
Tue Feb-05-13 02:11 PM

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61. "never heard him talk in my life"
In response to Reply # 58


  

          

____________________________________________________


Steph: I was just fooling about

Kyrie: I wasn't.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R8OWNspU_yE

  

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Castro
Charter member
48705 posts
Tue Feb-05-13 06:21 PM

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81. "Graduated a year early with a 3.8 in Finance."
In response to Reply # 61


  

          

------------------
One Hundred.

  

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Basaglia
Member since Nov 30th 2004
49377 posts
Tue Feb-05-13 06:35 PM

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82. "no doubt. still...never heard him talk in my life. "
In response to Reply # 81


  

          

____________________________________________________


Steph: I was just fooling about

Kyrie: I wasn't.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R8OWNspU_yE

  

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Orbit_Established
Member since Oct 27th 2002
52563 posts
Tue Feb-05-13 06:53 PM

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85. "Nope! Duke missing out on the high-achieving Africanz! "
In response to Reply # 82


  

          


'Cept Deng

Duke should be a slam dunk for Nigerian kids though

Maybe Duke engineering program not good enough
or something

IN all honesty, I think the issue is that Nigerian
parents didn't play basketball and so aren't
immediately impressed by K and Duke's resume.

Like you said -- all black prospects who are children
of athletes have Duke in the top 5, no question


----------------------------



O_E: "Acts like an asshole and posts with imperial disdain"




"I ORBITs the solar system, listenin..."

(C)Keith Murray, "

  

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Basaglia
Member since Nov 30th 2004
49377 posts
Wed Feb-06-13 07:22 AM

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106. "semi ojeleye is on the way..."
In response to Reply # 85


  

          

____________________________________________________


Steph: I was just fooling about

Kyrie: I wasn't.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R8OWNspU_yE

  

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TRENDone
Charter member
15616 posts
Tue Feb-05-13 02:28 PM

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62. "Vernon Davis"
In response to Reply # 17


  

          

he's on that renaissance tip in the Bay, fucking with the "art crowd" here ever since he cut his dreads...

____________________________________________________________________

San Diego State's holy trinity of sports:
Kawhi Leonard
Marshall Faulk
Tony Gwynn (RIP)

#Aztec4Life

  

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ThaTruth
Charter member
88939 posts
Tue Feb-05-13 03:40 PM

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74. "Probably Bynum, a lot of his problem is he's interested in a lot of othe..."
In response to Reply # 17


  

          

shit besides basketball, it's probably not in his top 5 of things to do or discuss

  

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TheRealBillyOcean
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37943 posts
Tue Feb-05-13 06:12 PM

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79. "I can see that."
In response to Reply # 74


  

          

<---https://www.amazon.com/dp/B01DL9AVTQ

  

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Kungset
Member since Mar 29th 2004
6327 posts
Tue Feb-05-13 07:36 PM

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87. "yeah good one"
In response to Reply # 74
Tue Feb-05-13 07:38 PM by Kungset

  

          

maybe not in the social commentary sense but i could see him funding some tech startups and shit.

  

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rl9
Charter member
4446 posts
Tue Feb-05-13 05:33 PM

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76. "Chris Webber, Grant Hill"
In response to Reply # 17


  

          


''i went from bashful to asshole to international''- CdoubleO

  

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TheRealBillyOcean
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37943 posts
Tue Feb-05-13 06:13 PM

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80. "They both scared. "
In response to Reply # 76


  

          

<---https://www.amazon.com/dp/B01DL9AVTQ

  

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mrhood75
Member since Dec 06th 2004
42297 posts
Tue Feb-05-13 06:44 PM

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83. "Adonal Foyle"
In response to Reply # 17


  

          

-----------------

www.albumism.com

Checkin' Our Style, Return To Zero:

https://www.mixcloud.com/returntozero/

  

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The Real
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107. "Alonzo Mourning"
In response to Reply # 17


  

          

But most of ya'll hate that dude.


------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

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B9
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110. "Does Etan Thomas still register?"
In response to Reply # 17


          

  

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ThaTruth
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111. "He was the first that came to mind but I guess he's not a "current"..."
In response to Reply # 110


  

          

player

  

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thejerseytornado
Member since Dec 24th 2005
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117. "KG's not funny enough, but he's definitely smart enough"
In response to Reply # 17


  

          


-----------
It's only funny till someone gets mad. Then it's hilarious.

  

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debo40oz
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227. "McNabb"
In response to Reply # 17


  

          

.

  

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Bombastic
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20. "quietly this gives Girls further cultural cache/import it doesnt deserve"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

but I did enjoy reading a few of Cap's one-liners in here.

  

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bshelly
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29. "plus we get to bring the Girls hate party to a second forum"
In response to Reply # 20


  

          

thats valuable. thanks, Cap!

----
bshelly

"You (Fisher) could get fired, Les Snead could get fired, Kevin Demoff could get fired, but I will always be Eric Dickerson.” (c) The God

  

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magilla vanilla
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50. "here's the thing though: Cap overall *LIKES* the show"
In response to Reply # 29


  

          

Sure, he chile graped the SHIT out of Dong Lover's appearance, but he said he likes it for the most part.

---------------------------------
Photo zine(some images NSFW): http://bit.ly/USaSPhoto

"This (and every, actually) conversation needs more Chesterton and less Mike Francesa." - Walleye

  

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Marauder21
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48. "At this point, I tihnk the hate is driving more discussion"
In response to Reply # 20


  

          

than the praise

------

12 play and 12 planets are enlighten for all the Aliens to Party and free those on the Sex Planet-maxxx

XBL: trkc21
Twitter: @tyrcasey

  

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Frank Longo
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57. "Cosign. "
In response to Reply # 20


  

          

I forget who wrote that Girls is like Seinfeld if none of the Seinfeld writers were aware that the characters were assholes. I like that. Although again it gives Girls credit by mentioning them in the same breath as Seinfeld. Sigh.

For beer lovers: http://thebeertravelguide.com
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smutsboy
Member since Jun 29th 2002
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92. "People spend too much time & effort hating Girls"
In response to Reply # 20


  

          

when there's so much other tv out there more worthy of their time & effort.

yet for some reason, Girls really gets people going.

Mostly because it's written, produced and stars a woman, and a young one at that.

Unless that's just a HUGE coincidence.

But it's not. That's why.

  

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Walleye
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113. "I think you've unsequenced this post"
In response to Reply # 92


          

And sequence matters, particularly since it doesn't look like effort really played much of a role at any point. An affirming review of a television show by a (celebrity, but still) reviewer is followed by a largely unnecessary snarky comment about said show by a random poster on a messageboard.

Everything seems in its place.

Speaking of sequencing, I think you're also talking around the Hegelian Whiplash for "Girls" into which our man Bomb is inserting himself. It can be a fine TV show* without being an important cultural landmark, and people don't like being told that a sitcom that's fewer than two dozen episodes# in has accomplished something culturally transformative. "The Mindy Project" meets your criteria for shows-created-and-starring-women and it doesn't inspire nearly the same amount of teeth gritting. It's just a plain, old pretty good sitcom. And an improving one. Last night's episode was stellar. Ditto for "Whitney," which possesses an absolute quality ceiling of "eh" but will sink or swim based on the public's willingness to swallow that mediocrity just like a mostly shitty sitcom created by a man.

Everything in its place.

There's a few things that are different about "Girls" and being created by and starring a woman is only one of them. I rather wish it were seen just another sitcom so we could avoid the vigorous hand-waving that seems to accompany any discussion of it. But, since before it even existed on air, it's been something bigger and more important for no discernible reason.

*and it is

#semi-relatedly, my wife's family is crazy into British television and they always bring up the superiority of these six episode seasons (series?) on BBC. They are wrong. I appreciate the desire for some kind of editorial restraint, but good TV characters and storylines have shelf lives of much, much longer than a handful of episodes. I'd much rather have a show overstay its welcome like "How I Met Your Mother" than bow out quickly like Gervais' "Office."

______________________________

"Walleye, a lot of things are going to go wrong in your life that technically aren't your fault. Always remember that this doesn't make you any less of an idiot"

--Walleye's Dad

  

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bshelly
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114. "^^^^this"
In response to Reply # 113


  

          

----
bshelly

"You (Fisher) could get fired, Les Snead could get fired, Kevin Demoff could get fired, but I will always be Eric Dickerson.” (c) The God

  

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Orbit_Established
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115. "'Girls' was created to be debated, though. Not to be enjoyed. "
In response to Reply # 113
Wed Feb-06-13 11:37 AM by Orbit_Established

  

          



That's the whole point of it.

It wouldn't last two weeks pre-blogosphere, hyper
self-aware hipsters.

'The Cosby Show' wouldn't last as long in today's
environment, where a piece of entertainment is an
opportunity for the AUDIENCE to feed their narcissism
by creating "original" take on show X or Y.

I'm not judging anything:

If people think television's purpose is to create fodder for
blog or message-board banter, than fine*.

Television used to be created so that the audience can
sit, laugh, think, cry, or be engaged by the character
and stories.

Its still the case with many shows, but its definitely not
the case with 'Girls'.

You close the message boards, 'Modern Family' still exists.

Close the message boards, nobody watches 'Girls' anymore.



*We used to call those "Soap Operas" and they did their job
quite well

----------------------------



O_E: "Acts like an asshole and posts with imperial disdain"




"I ORBITs the solar system, listenin..."

(C)Keith Murray, "

  

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Walleye
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116. "Well, shit"
In response to Reply # 115
Wed Feb-06-13 11:43 AM by Walleye

          

>People watch it so that they can come on message board
>and blog original thoughts about it. Not so that they
>can enjoy a good story, good characters, etc. Has nothing
>to do with its appeal.

I missed this memo, but it would explain a lot.

It kind of sucks because I've rather enjoyed the show more often than I haven't. And though I think he's inverting cause-and-effect a bit, smuts isn't wrong about the reaction. But it seems more like a lot of jealousy in the form of "why did Lena Dunham get this opportunity?" (as though we were HBO's second choice) becomes "Why did that bitch get this opportunity?"

Also, please don't let the answer be "because of 'Tiny Furniture.'"

Nobody asks for Mindy Kaling's credentials, because they're both obvious and impossible to question. And her show is better.

edit: I should add that those questions are also not necessarily related to whether "Girls" is any good, but rather serve a rough analogy between the two programs. And also that I think you're being slightly uncharitable to the show's creation in the sense that I really don't believe that Lena Dunham has approached any of this with the sort of cynicism that you're pointing toward.

______________________________

"Walleye, a lot of things are going to go wrong in your life that technically aren't your fault. Always remember that this doesn't make you any less of an idiot"

--Walleye's Dad

  

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Orbit_Established
Member since Oct 27th 2002
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118. "No, not really. "
In response to Reply # 116


  

          

>And also that
>I think you're being slightly uncharitable to the show's
>creation in the sense that I really don't believe that Lena
>Dunham has approached any of this with the sort of cynicism
>that you're pointing toward.

Anytime a show is full of "nods" to certain issues, or passive-
aggressive references/answers to things that internet critics
have said, the show becomes about something other than the
experience of sitting down and watching the show.

The show becomes more about inserting stylistic vaccines against
internet memes (on blogs and discussion boards) that could
destroy it.

For example, the cutesy black republican guy does not enrich
the TV watching experience. That character vaccinates the show
against two potential insults:

a) that the show has no diversity

b) that the show put a stereotypical black guy in the show

Again:

That the guy is black is a vaccine for criticism (a)

That the guy is republican is a vaccine against criticism (b)


There are *no* good TV shows that have done this, because its
impossible to make a good TV show that is constantly shape
shifting its approach to meet these kinds of demands.

Don't get me wrong -- television shows adapt all the time,
respond to outcries, etc. But not at the pace, nor the depth that
'Girls' has.

Hell, not even 'Sex in the City' did this. It was discussed
to death, but the people who liked it did so because they
enjoyed sitting down and watching it. Thankfully, that show
was *just* ahead of hipster epidemic, because it would have
suffered.

So yeah, 'Girls isn't about the audience, because most of the
audience aren't art critics, and most the audience didn't need
to see a black guy love interest, because most people who are
that sensitive about race don't watch 'Girls'.

Seriously -- how many *more* people watch the show *because*
of a quirky black republican?

The answer: a fraction as many as those who now watch the
show to see how the writer of the show responds to the hipster
critiques of the show.

I mean, I care a lot about race. I didn't complain
about lack of diversity on 'Girls' because I find the show
worthless and would rather it be a bunch of white women.
I, in fact, find the "quirky black guy" as tool to be ironically,
more offensive than the lack of diversity.

Weird, I know, but so is life.



----------------------------



O_E: "Acts like an asshole and posts with imperial disdain"




"I ORBITs the solar system, listenin..."

(C)Keith Murray, "

  

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Walleye
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120. "Fair enough, I agree with all of that."
In response to Reply # 118


          

In case it wasn't already obvious, I haven't seen any of the second season yet. So that was about as convincing a case of built-in cynicism as I could possibly imagine. Nicely done.

______________________________

"Walleye, a lot of things are going to go wrong in your life that technically aren't your fault. Always remember that this doesn't make you any less of an idiot"

--Walleye's Dad

  

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Walleye
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121. "This was particularly lethal"
In response to Reply # 118


          

>That character vaccinates the
>show
>against two potential insults:
>
>a) that the show has no diversity
>
>b) that the show put a stereotypical black guy in the show
>
>Again:
>
>That the guy is black is a vaccine for criticism (a)
>
>That the guy is republican is a vaccine against criticism (b)

______________________________

"Walleye, a lot of things are going to go wrong in your life that technically aren't your fault. Always remember that this doesn't make you any less of an idiot"

--Walleye's Dad

  

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magilla vanilla
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125. "Prepare for disappointment"
In response to Reply # 116


  

          

>Also, please don't let the answer be "because of 'Tiny
>Furniture.'"

Because that film proved that she could produce a NYC-centric "realistic" piece of visual entertainment that still looked GOOD* (or at least professional-quality) for very, very cheap.


*And any misgivings you have about how terrible the film's main character and her friends are, the film is, from a visual aesthetic standpoint, on another level from a lot of certainly brilliant films from her contemporaries. And Judd Apatow is excellent at spotting directorial talent (those who can't do, teach, and all that).

---------------------------------
Photo zine(some images NSFW): http://bit.ly/USaSPhoto

"This (and every, actually) conversation needs more Chesterton and less Mike Francesa." - Walleye

  

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Walleye
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128. "It was really boring though"
In response to Reply # 125
Wed Feb-06-13 01:19 PM by Walleye

          

It just seemed... I'm going to go with "deliberately insignificant."

>*And any misgivings you have about how terrible the film's
>main character and her friends are, the film is, from a visual
>aesthetic standpoint, on another level from a lot of certainly
>brilliant films from her contemporaries. And Judd Apatow is
>excellent at spotting directorial talent (those who can't do,
>teach, and all that).

Wait. Did it look "professional quality" or "on another level... from her contemporaries"? Because it sounds like there should be a pretty big gap between those things, unless I'm misunderstanding her contemporaries.

edit: And I'm curious about the Apatow point. Is the parenthetical there a nod to the frequent knock against him that his visual sense is "indifferent" but that he does a good job of teaching/unearthing people who are good at that? I wasn't aware of that reputation. Kind of cool.

______________________________

"Walleye, a lot of things are going to go wrong in your life that technically aren't your fault. Always remember that this doesn't make you any less of an idiot"

--Walleye's Dad

  

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magilla vanilla
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130. "Can it be both? "
In response to Reply # 128


  

          

Because, as I understand it, one way to get selected for the bigs is to stand so far out from your contemporaries at a young age (and I'm talking about filmmakers who were 22 when Dunham made Tiny Furniture) that you get earmarked by scouts who know, no?

---------------------------------
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"This (and every, actually) conversation needs more Chesterton and less Mike Francesa." - Walleye

  

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Walleye
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131. "Sure"
In response to Reply # 130


          

>Because, as I understand it, one way to get selected for the
>bigs is to stand so far out from your contemporaries at a
>young age (and I'm talking about filmmakers who were 22 when
>Dunham made Tiny Furniture) that you get earmarked by scouts
>who know, no?

That'll work. I'm out of my educated element here. Just an asshole with opinions.

______________________________

"Walleye, a lot of things are going to go wrong in your life that technically aren't your fault. Always remember that this doesn't make you any less of an idiot"

--Walleye's Dad

  

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magilla vanilla
Member since Sep 13th 2002
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Wed Feb-06-13 01:28 PM

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136. "I find him a lot better as a producer than director"
In response to Reply # 128


  

          

>edit: And I'm curious about the Apatow point. Is the
>parenthetical there a nod to the frequent knock against him
>that his visual sense is "indifferent" but that he does a good
>job of teaching/unearthing people who are good at that? I
>wasn't aware of that reputation. Kind of cool.

based largely on how good Freaks and Geeks was versus how slight Undeclared was, though the film analogues are similar, IMO.

---------------------------------
Photo zine(some images NSFW): http://bit.ly/USaSPhoto

"This (and every, actually) conversation needs more Chesterton and less Mike Francesa." - Walleye

  

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Walleye
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140. "I kind of bet he can live with that"
In response to Reply # 136


          

This is pure guessing on the mind of somebody whose work I sort of admire, but it seems clear that he's completely aware of how self-indulgent the stuff he writes/directs is lately. He earned it, mostly.

______________________________

"Walleye, a lot of things are going to go wrong in your life that technically aren't your fault. Always remember that this doesn't make you any less of an idiot"

--Walleye's Dad

  

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magilla vanilla
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145. "To say nothing of the fact that producing is more lucrative than directi..."
In response to Reply # 140
Wed Feb-06-13 01:45 PM by magilla vanilla

  

          

.

---------------------------------
Photo zine(some images NSFW): http://bit.ly/USaSPhoto

"This (and every, actually) conversation needs more Chesterton and less Mike Francesa." - Walleye

  

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celery77
Member since Aug 04th 2005
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123. "the three biggest Girls fans I know can barely operate a cell phone"
In response to Reply # 115


  

          

much less a blog -- so where do they fit into your 'the show only exists because of hyper-responsive internet culture' narrative?

is it *that* impossible to believe that there is a slice of society that really, really responds to what Lena Dunham is pushing in that show without having to freak out about the 'response' to it?

you dudes acting as arbiters of what women should and should not like -- it's a poor look, really.

glad to see at least our man Kareem is comfortable enough in his manhood to simply shrug and say, 'I guess it has something...'

___________

HOPE!
https://vine.co/v/i7JjIBL3Qix
https://vine.co/v/i7JtqEFwxDu

  

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Walleye
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124. "If we're to believe your rough survey of the show's fans..."
In response to Reply # 123


          

>is it *that* impossible to believe that there is a slice of
>society that really, really responds to what Lena Dunham is
>pushing in that show without having to freak out about the
>'response' to it?

... I'm going to go with "yes". If 100% of "Girls" fans aren't capable of operating a cellphone, then I think freaking out over the show's reception is a pretty justifiable response.

______________________________

"Walleye, a lot of things are going to go wrong in your life that technically aren't your fault. Always remember that this doesn't make you any less of an idiot"

--Walleye's Dad

  

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magilla vanilla
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Wed Feb-06-13 01:13 PM

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126. "always deflating low sample sizes."
In response to Reply # 124


  

          

---------------------------------
Photo zine(some images NSFW): http://bit.ly/USaSPhoto

"This (and every, actually) conversation needs more Chesterton and less Mike Francesa." - Walleye

  

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Walleye
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129. "I stay on message"
In response to Reply # 126


          

I know precisely one statistical principle and damned if I'm not sticking to it.

Though, in fairness, I did slightly misread him. He said the three biggest "Girls" fans he knew, so it's possible we're dealing with a larger sample but there is some kind of scaling to be done on precisely how functionally insufficient fans of the program really are.

I'm a humanities guy, so I'll tap out at that point. Still, that post hardly covered the demographic in glory, so I have a hard time understanding how people who snark on the show are the anti-progressive ones.

______________________________

"Walleye, a lot of things are going to go wrong in your life that technically aren't your fault. Always remember that this doesn't make you any less of an idiot"

--Walleye's Dad

  

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magilla vanilla
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Wed Feb-06-13 01:24 PM

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133. "I could argue that O_E's central point is slightly regressive"
In response to Reply # 129


  

          

i.e. that television shows that function for the pure purpose of entertaining rather than prompting discussion are far superior.

But then, 50 years from now, the Grammy academy is far more likely to be giving a lifetime achievement award to Chuck Lorre than Dan Harmon. Which makes me sad, because I know whose shows I'd both enjoy artistically and be more entertained by.

---------------------------------
Photo zine(some images NSFW): http://bit.ly/USaSPhoto

"This (and every, actually) conversation needs more Chesterton and less Mike Francesa." - Walleye

  

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Walleye
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137. "Maybe, but he was coloring within the lines he drew"
In response to Reply # 133


          

That this show in particular functions (and makes plot and casting choices) to generate discussion in a pretty cynical and self-serving way. The thesis was defined at the outset, limited in scope (though potentially valid for broader applicability), and came freighted with well-developed examples.

Now I feel like a total asshole for treating a post like I teach composition (which I don't), but it struck me as an unusually well-argued point for pretty much anywhere on the internet. I'm kind of a jerk and don't change my mind lightly.

The idea seems to be that discussion wasn't generated organically. And that idea was supported.

>But then, 50 years from now, the Grammy academy is far more
>likely to be giving a lifetime achievement award to Chuck
>Lorre than Dan Harmon. Which makes me sad, because I know
>whose shows I'd both enjoy artistically and be more
>entertained by.

I like that Chuck Lorre serves as the go-to for vile mediocrity of inexplicable popularity here.

______________________________

"Walleye, a lot of things are going to go wrong in your life that technically aren't your fault. Always remember that this doesn't make you any less of an idiot"

--Walleye's Dad

  

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Orbit_Established
Member since Oct 27th 2002
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Wed Feb-06-13 01:33 PM

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138. "I don't place judgment. People can like what they want. "
In response to Reply # 133
Wed Feb-06-13 01:35 PM by Orbit_Established

  

          

>i.e. that television shows that function for the pure purpose
>of entertaining rather than prompting discussion are far
>superior.

And part of my point is that 'Girls' doesn't *really*
prompt discussion any more than 'Living Single' did,
and the only reason it does is for reasons that have
nothing to do with the content or quality of the
show. Its all ambiance and circumstance.

Art criticism exists under the assumption that said
piece of art was produced for artistic, aesthetic purposes.

That's where the thousands and thousands and thousands of
pages of literary criticism come from: people deciphering what
T.S. Eliot was really saying. T.S. Eliot was certainly
commenting directly on some things, but was mostly just
writing a book.

'Girls' was produced so that art critics can talk about
it. That is the reason why its made. Not for expression.
Not for exposition. It was made for the discussion after
the show is over.

This doesn't make it *worse* but it does make it *different*



----------------------------



O_E: "Acts like an asshole and posts with imperial disdain"




"I ORBITs the solar system, listenin..."

(C)Keith Murray, "

  

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celery77
Member since Aug 04th 2005
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Wed Feb-06-13 01:39 PM

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142. "see? I'd agree with this:"
In response to Reply # 138


  

          

>And part of my point is that 'Girls' doesn't *really*
>prompt discussion any more than 'Living Single' did,
>and the only reason it does is for reasons that have
>nothing to do with the content or quality of the
>show. Its all ambiance and circumstance.

and the fans of the show I know would agree with this, too, if you talked to them about it.

>'Girls' was produced so that art critics can talk about
>it. That is the reason why its made. Not for expression.
>Not for exposition. It was made for the discussion after
>the show is over.

this, they wouldn't agree with. they would say (and have said to me) it's finally a show which shows just how horrible so much sex with dudes is and that's funny to me. it shows how ridiculous girls are and that's funny to me. they tell me they see versions of people they know in the characters in the show, because they have the sense to recognize bad behavior even if they occasionally engage in it themselves. just because they laugh at Hannah and like the show doesn't mean they want to BE Hannah, O_E.

I mean, damn, give the ladies some credit, huh?

___________

HOPE!
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Orbit_Established
Member since Oct 27th 2002
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147. "LOL. You just explained the appeal of Jersey Shore. "
In response to Reply # 142


  

          


>this, they wouldn't agree with. they would say (and have said
>to me) it's finally a show which shows just how horrible so
>much sex with dudes is and that's funny to me. it shows how
>ridiculous girls are and that's funny to me. they tell me
>they see versions of people they know in the characters in the
>show, because they have the sense to recognize bad behavior
>even if they occasionally engage in it themselves. just
>because they laugh at Hannah and like the show doesn't mean
>they want to BE Hannah, O_E.
>
>I mean, damn, give the ladies some credit, huh?

I've literally heard that precise explanation for why
educated women watch reality TV in general.

Word for word, exactly.

Of course, its bullshit.

Same way I lie and say that I enjoy watching a knuckleballer
as much as I do a power pitcher because I "appreciate the
nuances to the game."

People like TV shows for all kinds of dumbass reasons.

The difference: people intellectualize 'Girls'.

And they intellectualize it because its author recognizes
how to throw that crowd a bone.

Its no smarter than 'Jersey Shore'. It just has a hook
into the people who award Golden Globes

----------------------------



O_E: "Acts like an asshole and posts with imperial disdain"




"I ORBITs the solar system, listenin..."

(C)Keith Murray, "

  

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celery77
Member since Aug 04th 2005
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151. "but HERE's the difference: my friend J doesn't tell me sports are dumb"
In response to Reply # 147


  

          

even though I know for a fact my friend J doesn't give two shits about pro sports, probably couldn't name more than three pro athletes, thinks sports fans and sports culture in general sucks, is probably disturbed by the brainlessness and ultimately pointless sea of cash that it represents, and generally loathes the entire sports industrial complex at all levels -- I know *deep down* she thinks all those things.

but she doesn't try to tell me how I should feel about sports even if she thinks that.

she will just say, "that's cool" when the topic comes up and will let me know it's boring to her, we should probably talk about something else. when we're at the bar and I say, "oh I gotta get the bartender to turn a game on for me!" she doesn't roll her eyes and start lecturing me about how inappropriate my sports obsession is. she doesn't troll blogs and write angry screeds about why Sports represents some kind of blah blah blah. she doesn't "hate-watch" the Super Bowl or something. she just says, "oh yeah -- he likes sports. that's his thing." and then when she sees an old school vintage Pittsburgh Steelers shirt at the thrift shop, she recognizes it as "sports," thinks it's cute, and then buys it for me as a gift, even though I am not a Steelers and she doesn't even realize it's NFL which is a sport I don't own any apparel of because I don't follow it like that. she just does that because she knows I like sports and she wants to get me a gift.

see the difference?

and I get where you're coming from with the Golden Globe angle (I know I've pissed some people off here in PDX getting angry cuz The Wire never won an Emmy while Mad Men rakes them in) but that's a separate discussion than the value of the show. that's a discussion of the RESPONSE to the show. I trust you're smart enough to recognize the distinction.

___________

HOPE!
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Orbit_Established
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154. "Awful Analogy. Major League Baseball didn't win a Golden Globe. "
In response to Reply # 151


  

          


>but she doesn't try to tell me how I should feel about sports
>even if she thinks that.

And MLB hasn't been called an intellectual/artistic voice of
my generation.

Sports is an interesting paradigm because everyone seems
relatively at peace with it being dumb. In fact, the attempts
at making sports smart get ridiculed more than attempts to
make it stay dumb. Its dumbness is part of it its appeal,
and no one will ever clown a fan of MLB for simply saying:

"I like it because its fun."

This is actually the exact opposite of 'Girls':

That its "smart" and "socially relevant" is being forced
up me, is the status quo, is the reason its popular.

You get criticized (like I do) when you say that it actually
*is* dumb and has no artistic merit.

Any and all attempts to intellectual 'Girls' is a farse.

Its no smarter than 'Jersey Shore'.

More smarter than Major League Baseball.


----------------------------



O_E: "Acts like an asshole and posts with imperial disdain"




"I ORBITs the solar system, listenin..."

(C)Keith Murray, "

  

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magilla vanilla
Member since Sep 13th 2002
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Wed Feb-06-13 02:13 PM

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157. "No, but David Eckstein wins WS MVPs going 2-13 in the first 3 games"
In response to Reply # 154
Wed Feb-06-13 02:19 PM by magilla vanilla

  

          

edit: and aren't you also "intellectualizing it" in some kinda way by devoting so many posts to decrying it?

---------------------------------
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"This (and every, actually) conversation needs more Chesterton and less Mike Francesa." - Walleye

  

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Walleye
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161. "Are you saying David Eckstein is the Lena Dunham of ballplayers?"
In response to Reply # 157


          

I'll take Jeff Francoeur.

______________________________

"Walleye, a lot of things are going to go wrong in your life that technically aren't your fault. Always remember that this doesn't make you any less of an idiot"

--Walleye's Dad

  

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magilla vanilla
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164. "No, again, we're going to Chuck Lorre"
In response to Reply # 161


  

          

Eckstein is incredibly popular with old white men and inexplicably wins awards.

---------------------------------
Photo zine(some images NSFW): http://bit.ly/USaSPhoto

"This (and every, actually) conversation needs more Chesterton and less Mike Francesa." - Walleye

  

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Walleye
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165. "Excellent"
In response to Reply # 164


          

Dan Harmon is the Kevin Appier of show-runners.

______________________________

"Walleye, a lot of things are going to go wrong in your life that technically aren't your fault. Always remember that this doesn't make you any less of an idiot"

--Walleye's Dad

  

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magilla vanilla
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169. "Awww, Kevin Appier"
In response to Reply # 165


  

          

That means Harmon's going to fade away over the next three years, doesn't it? =(

---------------------------------
Photo zine(some images NSFW): http://bit.ly/USaSPhoto

"This (and every, actually) conversation needs more Chesterton and less Mike Francesa." - Walleye

  

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Walleye
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181. "Yep, and people will point out a seven year HOF peak..."
In response to Reply # 169


          

... and nobody will believe us. Like it never happened.

David Simon is the Kevin Brown of pitchers. Talented, contrarian, and kind of an asshole. Also, curiously without hardware for his awesome efforts.

______________________________

"Walleye, a lot of things are going to go wrong in your life that technically aren't your fault. Always remember that this doesn't make you any less of an idiot"

--Walleye's Dad

  

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magilla vanilla
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182. "So is Dick Wolf Nolan Ryan?"
In response to Reply # 181
Wed Feb-06-13 03:24 PM by magilla vanilla

  

          

And Vince Gilligan Roy Halladay?

---------------------------------
Photo zine(some images NSFW): http://bit.ly/USaSPhoto

"This (and every, actually) conversation needs more Chesterton and less Mike Francesa." - Walleye

  

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Walleye
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183. "YES!"
In response to Reply # 182


          

Well done.

______________________________

"Walleye, a lot of things are going to go wrong in your life that technically aren't your fault. Always remember that this doesn't make you any less of an idiot"

--Walleye's Dad

  

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Orbit_Established
Member since Oct 27th 2002
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162. "Yup. And again -- people are cool with Baseball being dumb"
In response to Reply # 157


  

          


The fight in baseball has been to get people to
recognize that its actually smart.

(remember poor Brad Pitt ostracized for wanting to
bring calculators to scouting meetings in 'Moneyball'?)

The fight with 'Girls' is to get people to recognize that
its actually dumb.

(Check PTPs 'Girls' discussion. Me, Shellz and Basa
treated like Debbie Downers for pointing out the
obvious)


----------------------------



O_E: "Acts like an asshole and posts with imperial disdain"




"I ORBITs the solar system, listenin..."

(C)Keith Murray, "

  

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magilla vanilla
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170. "Here's the thing, though."
In response to Reply # 162


  

          

Both this and the GD post would be like 50 replies, IF THAT, without you trying to fight that fight. And then you could spend those 150 or so replies promoting something you deem worthwhile.

So who's really dumb?

---------------------------------
Photo zine(some images NSFW): http://bit.ly/USaSPhoto

"This (and every, actually) conversation needs more Chesterton and less Mike Francesa." - Walleye

  

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Frank Longo
Member since Nov 18th 2003
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Wed Feb-06-13 02:55 PM

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172. "C'mon. He posts about positive shit all the time."
In response to Reply # 170


  

          

Those things just don't go plat because no one wants to get into a crazy debate about Talk to Me or Ken Burns.

For beer lovers: http://thebeertravelguide.com
For movie lovers: http://russellhainline.com

  

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Walleye
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174. "Ken Burns has stupid hair"
In response to Reply # 172
Wed Feb-06-13 03:02 PM by Walleye

          

Historical documentaries make me want to set my library on fire.

______________________________

"Walleye, a lot of things are going to go wrong in your life that technically aren't your fault. Always remember that this doesn't make you any less of an idiot"

--Walleye's Dad

  

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Frank Longo
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Wed Feb-06-13 03:09 PM

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176. "Is Burns still rocking the Indigo Girls do?"
In response to Reply # 174


  

          

At one point, he had the back grown out and quasi-feathered, which worked way more than the helmet hair.

For beer lovers: http://thebeertravelguide.com
For movie lovers: http://russellhainline.com

  

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Walleye
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178. ""worked""
In response to Reply # 176


          

I don't understand how somebody almost sixty years old can make a low hairline look like a problem that needs to be solved.

______________________________

"Walleye, a lot of things are going to go wrong in your life that technically aren't your fault. Always remember that this doesn't make you any less of an idiot"

--Walleye's Dad

  

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magilla vanilla
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185. "what's your least favorite trope? The "voice-acted" letters?"
In response to Reply # 174


  

          

Or the inexorable single-path march?

---------------------------------
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"This (and every, actually) conversation needs more Chesterton and less Mike Francesa." - Walleye

  

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Walleye
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186. "Ha, the letters"
In response to Reply # 185


          

Those make me grit my teeth.

______________________________

"Walleye, a lot of things are going to go wrong in your life that technically aren't your fault. Always remember that this doesn't make you any less of an idiot"

--Walleye's Dad

  

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40thStreetBlack
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Thu Feb-07-13 12:53 AM

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199. "they did a letter in Death & the Civil War from a dying soldier writing ..."
In response to Reply # 186


          

to his father, telling his father he was going to die and asking him to put his affairs in order and where he wanted to be buried that I found particularly moving. But yeah the letters thing is generally overdone, but that one really stood out to me (that was Ric not Ken though, but same difference really)

--------

  

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Orbit_Established
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Thu Feb-07-13 10:29 AM

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209. "Just wanted to say that Ken Burns bashing is a hipster favorite"
In response to Reply # 199


  

          


Y'all outing yourselves up in here

There is nothing wrong with Ken Burns

Just stop

----------------------------



O_E: "Acts like an asshole and posts with imperial disdain"




"I ORBITs the solar system, listenin..."

(C)Keith Murray, "

  

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Walleye
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216. "I hated Ken Burns before it was cool"
In response to Reply # 209
Thu Feb-07-13 10:58 AM by Walleye

          

My parents insisted he run non-stop on our TV when I was a kid because I liked history. Turns out, I don't care for public history and even less for public history that makes people famous. When my incredibly boring dissertation is finished, I want it to die and decay into a big, fat conversation, surviving as a footnote in a piece by somebody much, much smarter than me. At best.

I like the arguments. I think Ken Burns skips the arguments and puts topics behind glass.

______________________________

"Walleye, a lot of things are going to go wrong in your life that technically aren't your fault. Always remember that this doesn't make you any less of an idiot"

--Walleye's Dad

  

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Orbit_Established
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Thu Feb-07-13 11:00 AM

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217. "You're an actual historian and y'all hate everything"
In response to Reply # 216


  

          


So you have an alibi

Plus you are perhaps the least hipsterish person
on this board


----------------------------



O_E: "Acts like an asshole and posts with imperial disdain"




"I ORBITs the solar system, listenin..."

(C)Keith Murray, "

  

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Walleye
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218. "That is not a joke"
In response to Reply # 217


          

Except sweater vests. Historians love sweater vests. Even the young ones.

______________________________

"Walleye, a lot of things are going to go wrong in your life that technically aren't your fault. Always remember that this doesn't make you any less of an idiot"

--Walleye's Dad

  

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magilla vanilla
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234. "Dude, I write about soccer, homebrew, and have a Russian film camera"
In response to Reply # 209


  

          

I've done BEEN a hipster.

And I enjoy Ken Burns, but you can't say dude doesn't have a template.

---------------------------------
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"This (and every, actually) conversation needs more Chesterton and less Mike Francesa." - Walleye

  

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40thStreetBlack
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267. "I said I was really moved by that letter presented in Death & the Civil ..."
In response to Reply # 209


          

>Y'all outing yourselves up in here
>
>There is nothing wrong with Ken Burns
>
>Just stop

also, that was Ric Burns, not Ken. guess you were making a general response post and not specifically responding to me though.

--------

  

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Orbit_Established
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301. "Nah, wasn't really speaking to any of you in particular"
In response to Reply # 267


  

          


Despite me talking to y'all directly, I actually
wasn't, and I expect y'all to know the difference
because y'all know me by now

I was making a general point about how Ken Burns
bashing is a hipster pastime

Same way Nas bashing is a hipster pastime

Everybody need to just STOP


----------------------------



O_E: "Acts like an asshole and posts with imperial disdain"




"I ORBITs the solar system, listenin..."

(C)Keith Murray, "

  

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celery77
Member since Aug 04th 2005
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163. "you're right -- MLB just gets called 'America's Pastime' fuck a Globe!"
In response to Reply # 154


  

          

>And MLB hasn't been called an intellectual/artistic voice of
>my generation.

again -- good point. it's just been called the game which defines our American-ness. a Golden Globe + EW cover seems downright paltry when compared to plaudits such as that. perhaps Lena Dunham needs to be more ambitious.

or do we really want to argue over the amount of ink spilled over baseball compared to the amount of ink spilled over Lena Dunham? because I think we both know which is leading in that category...

>That its "smart" and "socially relevant" is being forced
>up me, is the status quo, is the reason its popular.

oh right, because I don't regularly hear Jalen Rose (or any other # of talking heads) tell me that 'sports are a reflection of society.'

really?

because last I checked, society wasn't 100% male.

>Any and all attempts to intellectual 'Girls' is a farse.

and yet here we are in 2013 and Barry Bonds can't get into the HOF because of why? and you're really going to tell me that it's useless to create meaning out of the 'Barry Bonds' controversy? I just don't see that being you, O_E

so yeah -- anything written about Girls outside of the show is a fabrication of the critic's mind, same as anything written about why Barry Bonds wasn't amazing at swinging a stick at a ball is a fabrication as well. but people still write about that shit, don't they? sheeeeeit -- Congress spends their time and money calling baseball players to the Hill! fucking holla back when Lena Dunham is getting Congressional hearings because of a plotline gone wrong on her show.

lmao @ calling that shit a false anology

we don't even disagree that much on this one, prolly a good point to lay it down, but if you're really gonna say Girls:Sports is false, then I know you're just in full bullshit mode...

___________

HOPE!
https://vine.co/v/i7JjIBL3Qix
https://vine.co/v/i7JtqEFwxDu

  

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magilla vanilla
Member since Sep 13th 2002
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Wed Feb-06-13 01:42 PM

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144. "I think you're putting the cart before the horse"
In response to Reply # 138


  

          

I don't think Lena Dunham put fingers to keys consciously saying "people will TALK ABOUT IT," but she's part of an era* that is hyper self-aware, oversharing and implicitly vain (that's not to say that there aren't young people who do good things- but a) and b) make them SEEM vain about their involvement). So her writing's going to come from that perspective.

*I was going to say generation here, and then I realized that there's a ton of self-centered media and political discourse coming from the two precedent generations right now(see any Tea Partier complaining about why their taxes are paying for "x program" and 30 Rock, which did reactive writing long before Girls hit the screen)

---------------------------------
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"This (and every, actually) conversation needs more Chesterton and less Mike Francesa." - Walleye

  

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Orbit_Established
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149. "Mechanism or intentions aren't relevant. "
In response to Reply # 144


  

          


It doesn't matter why/how she did what she did.

She did it.

Why she does it would matter if I was trying to place
a moral judgment on her or her work. I'm not.

Its artistically bankrupt to me, but again, I don't
think she's an artist.

----------------------------



O_E: "Acts like an asshole and posts with imperial disdain"




"I ORBITs the solar system, listenin..."

(C)Keith Murray, "

  

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magilla vanilla
Member since Sep 13th 2002
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155. "I disagree completely."
In response to Reply # 149


  

          

You're talking about the show as a cynical exercise in audience manipulation. I'm talking about it as expression. Intention is everything in that distinction.

---------------------------------
Photo zine(some images NSFW): http://bit.ly/USaSPhoto

"This (and every, actually) conversation needs more Chesterton and less Mike Francesa." - Walleye

  

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Orbit_Established
Member since Oct 27th 2002
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Wed Feb-06-13 02:13 PM

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158. "Obviously we disagree, silly "
In response to Reply # 155


  

          

>You're talking about the show as a cynical exercise in
>audience manipulation. I'm talking about it as expression.
>Intention is everything in that distinction.

You think she's an actual artist who is sincerely
trying to say something of worth

I think she's an internet entrepreneur with powerful friends
and an understanding of stupid people

If we can't agree on that, we can't agree on much of
anything, and I'm fine with that.

I mean, if you can sit through episode of this show
and not wish you were watching youtube videos of old
people fist fighting instead, then you don't see
eye-to-eye with me.

----------------------------



O_E: "Acts like an asshole and posts with imperial disdain"




"I ORBITs the solar system, listenin..."

(C)Keith Murray, "

  

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magilla vanilla
Member since Sep 13th 2002
17591 posts
Wed Feb-06-13 02:31 PM

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167. "See, now we're getting into Terry Richardson territory"
In response to Reply # 158


  

          

>You think she's an actual artist who is sincerely
>trying to say something of worth
>
>I think she's an internet entrepreneur with powerful friends
>and an understanding of stupid people
>

Because Terry's photos are one hundred percent designed to sell things to stupid/"half-sophisticated" people.

And yet, he's capable of some truly beautiful artistic work, from time to time, and he has a signature aesthetic.

---------------------------------
Photo zine(some images NSFW): http://bit.ly/USaSPhoto

"This (and every, actually) conversation needs more Chesterton and less Mike Francesa." - Walleye

  

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KosherSam
Member since Mar 18th 2004
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Wed Feb-06-13 01:37 PM

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141. "as an undergrad, I took a TV Programming course*"
In response to Reply # 133


  

          

*as in, being someone who decides what programs to air and when, not like how to work a tv.

On the first day of class, the professor asked us what the purpose of television programming was. after a few answers about entertainment, culture, etc from the class, he said "you're all wrong. the purpose of television programs is to deliver an audience to an advertiser. every show that is selected to go on the air is done with the purpose of attracting a specific audience that a group of advertisers will be attracted to"

U-S-A! U-S-A!

*Jews you*

"this is okp tho, reading is completely optional" (c) desus

Proceed with caution. I am overtly racist.

<-- In Pigpen we trust

  

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celery77
Member since Aug 04th 2005
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Wed Feb-06-13 01:42 PM

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143. "right? like Teen Mom is anything besides a vehicle to sell to teen moms"
In response to Reply # 141


  

          

whatever other shit people put on that, it's their own creation.

___________

HOPE!
https://vine.co/v/i7JjIBL3Qix
https://vine.co/v/i7JtqEFwxDu

  

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KosherSam
Member since Mar 18th 2004
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Wed Feb-06-13 02:16 PM

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160. "they're not selling to teen moms, they're selling to the 20-30s women"
In response to Reply # 143


  

          

who watch the show as part of their trashy tv fix.

*Jews you*

"this is okp tho, reading is completely optional" (c) desus

Proceed with caution. I am overtly racist.

<-- In Pigpen we trust

  

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Frank Longo
Member since Nov 18th 2003
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Wed Feb-06-13 01:13 PM

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127. "LMAO"
In response to Reply # 124


  

          

For beer lovers: http://thebeertravelguide.com
For movie lovers: http://russellhainline.com

  

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Orbit_Established
Member since Oct 27th 2002
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Wed Feb-06-13 01:25 PM

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134. "Just what we need: another "thoughtful on gender" guy "
In response to Reply # 123
Wed Feb-06-13 01:27 PM by Orbit_Established

  

          



People ask me to blog and write down my thoughts all the
time, and replies like yours is why I won't bother. Nobody
reads, and ultimately, the best points go unread or misunderstood.

>much less a blog -- so where do they fit into your 'the show
>only exists because of hyper-responsive internet culture'
>narrative?

Like Walleye alluded to, there are/haven been dozens of
shows that do the exact same thing as 'Girls', even better,
on free television.

'Girls' is not groundbreaking because of the dialogue.
Its not groundbreaking because of the characters.

It doesn't win Golden Globes because its a fun show about
women or tells us anything interesting about anything.

The controversy is 95% of the reason that the show is
on HBO to begin with.

To your female friends who watch the show: sort of my
point. If you put a show with a bunch of dumb white
women who talk about dick, it will attract millions of
views off jump, just because.

Hell, Jersey Shore's ratings went through the root just
because people like to see meatheads fight and fuck.

So that people watch it isn't really the point (its ratings
actually aren't that great). Of course some people will
watch it.

The question is why the show exists to begin with, why it
got an HBO slot, why its constantly being written about,
and why I have to waste my time debating dumb shit like
this.

Its remained popular because its creator is the child of NY
art royalty, and automatically attracted a gathering of high
brow fan/critics from the beginning:

The people who liked it called it "generation-defining" and
handed it a Golden Globe.

The people who disliked it called it offensive and indicative
of everything wrong with post-racial America.

^This is what the show is really about. The show is about
discussing what the show is about.

Let's compare it to an old show...like...'Living Single', 15
years ago.

In all seriousness, it told a much more provocative story
about a fascinating demographic:

African-American women in Clinton's America, the first time this
demographic made true professional strides in the history of
this country. This happened concurrent with the War on Drugs/end
of the War on Drugs, which created a vaccum of African-American male
counterparts, which fed an increasingly unsuccessful dating
dynamic between black men and women (that persists).

'Living Single'-lifestyle women were relatively rare in the
90s. Now there are cities with buildings full of single black
women with law and business degrees, all with wild stories
of unsuccessful dating escapades.

So this has been done before. Its been done with other white women
in shows. Its been done with men and women with shows.

The reason these shows didn't end up on HBO is because they were
about being watched, not being discussed, and didn't have the
arthouse starpower to attract a critical mass (and I mean "critical"
in the denotative sense). That is what 'Girls' has that other
shows does not have. The controversy.

And that is why it wins 'Golden Globes'.


>is it *that* impossible to believe that there is a slice of
>society that really, really responds to what Lena Dunham is
>pushing in that show without having to freak out about the
>'response' to it?

Absolutely not. There's a huge slice of society that will
pay $20.00 to watch Snookie talk about her struggles with
body image.

Same crowd that put Jersey Shore's ratings through the
roof.

And good for Snookie and Jersey Shore.

But that's the thing -- people watch Jersey Shore to see
dumb people fuck and fight.


So I'm not sure what your point is.


People like things for all kinds of dumbass reasons.


I used to sneakily watch Shannon Tweed movies as a kid
because I liked her nipples.


>you dudes acting as arbiters of what women should and should
>not like -- it's a poor look, really.


You're almost wearing a good sensitive-thoughtful-on-matters
-of-gender-man costume.

Almost.

But not.

Because you're not being sensitive or thoughtful on gender
at all.




----------------------------



O_E: "Acts like an asshole and posts with imperial disdain"




"I ORBITs the solar system, listenin..."

(C)Keith Murray, "

  

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celery77
Member since Aug 04th 2005
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Wed Feb-06-13 01:35 PM

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139. "oh, so you're asking a simple Q then complicating the A -- got it"
In response to Reply # 134


  

          

>The question is why the show exists to begin with, why it
>got an HBO slot, why its constantly being written about,
>and why I have to waste my time debating dumb shit like
>this.

the show exists cuz HBO pays for it and people respond to it (you could have saved yourself a lot of typing).

I'm not even bullshitting, I have *no idea* why that warrants such the response it does. you wanna know what TV makes me mad? "Here Comes Honey Boo Boo" makes me mad. Girls? I think Girls is funny. there's not too much else I need to worry about that show with.

now if I was talking to a person who was trying to tell me Girls was an artistic revolution? well yeah, that would be a different discussion. the only Girls fans I've talked to so far just tell me, "I REALLY LIKE IT!" because they don't feel the need to go around arbiting the taste of others (like, let's be honest here O_E, so many men do).

AND

that's Kareem's gift in this post -- he says "Girls has something?" it doesn't need to be any more complicated than that, and Kareem sees that because he's confident, self-assured, and unthreatened by a white girl telling white girl stories.

___________

HOPE!
https://vine.co/v/i7JjIBL3Qix
https://vine.co/v/i7JtqEFwxDu

  

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Frank Longo
Member since Nov 18th 2003
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Wed Feb-06-13 01:55 PM

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148. "I think that's still relatively anecdotal."
In response to Reply # 139
Wed Feb-06-13 01:58 PM by Frank Longo

  

          

>now if I was talking to a person who was trying to tell me
>Girls was an artistic revolution? well yeah, that would be a
>different discussion. the only Girls fans I've talked to so
>far just tell me, "I REALLY LIKE IT!" because they don't feel
>the need to go around arbiting the taste of others (like,
>let's be honest here O_E, so many men do).

Because I could counter with my anecdotal examples of girls who were angry at me for saying the show "doesn't interest me" and called Dunham "the voice of a generation."

And even if the general public's ability to define an artistic revolution is not statistically measurable, the media's perception and its ability to announce an artistic revolution is unquestionable. And I'm staring at the new EW, with Lena Dunham grabbing her head pensively, with the headline, "The Brilliant, Dirty, Twisted, Beautiful Mind Behind Girls: How Lena Dunham Became The Voice Of A Generation." Not the first publication to announce her coming (or staying... or whatever).

Furthermore, the point made above how backlash against Dunham is less about her being a woman and more about the media's insistence of her brilliance is on the money. Anything that the media insists is amazing gets loved or hated on an equal scale. Anything the media generally ignores that was created by a woman isn't hated, or if it's hated, then no one accuses that hatred to be founded in misogyny.

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Orbit_Established
Member since Oct 27th 2002
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152. "Didn't know this. If true, I rest my case and claim victory. "
In response to Reply # 148


  

          


>And even if the general public's ability to define an artistic
>revolution is not statistically measurable, the media's
>perception and its ability to announce an artistic revolution
>is unquestionable. And I'm staring at the new EW, with Lena
>Dunham grabbing her head pensively, with the headline, "The
>Brilliant, Dirty, Twisted, Beautiful Mind Behind Girls: How
>Lena Dunham Became The Voice Of A Generation." Not the first
>publication to announce her coming (or staying... or
>whatever).

Wow.


----------------------------



O_E: "Acts like an asshole and posts with imperial disdain"




"I ORBITs the solar system, listenin..."

(C)Keith Murray, "

  

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celery77
Member since Aug 04th 2005
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Wed Feb-06-13 02:11 PM

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156. "it is anecdotal -- isn't that the essence of viewer-response-critique?"
In response to Reply # 148


  

          

>Because I could counter with my anecdotal examples of girls
>who were angry at me for saying the show "doesn't interest me"
>and called Dunham "the voice of a generation."

you could, and I would agree with anyone and everyone who would want to call those girls obnoxious. but were we talking about the critique those girls were offering or the show Girls itself? it's a worthwhile distinction.

but as long as we're judging shows along the rubric "how does it make you feel?" then every single response is equally valid. it's The Problem with 'reader-response' critiques (it's also why so much modern pop criticism is intellectually bankrupt, so much of it has no real bearing in any substantive form of critical thinking -- and yes, the 'blogosphere,' twitter, message boards et. al. have only exacerbated this problem)

>Furthermore, the point made above how backlash against Dunham
>is less about her being a woman and more about the media's
>insistence of her brilliance is on the money. Anything that
>the media insists is amazing gets loved or hated on an equal
>scale. Anything the media generally ignores that was created
>by a woman isn't hated, or if it's hated, then no one accuses
>that hatred to be founded in misogyny.

right -- and while we bicker over exactly how we all should feel about some privileged white socialites in NYC, wholly exploitative, truly disturbing, unquestionably intellectually bankrupt shows like Here Comes Honey Boo Boo come to take over entire cable channels (not just buttress an already quality range of offering like HBO) and people let such actual creative atrocities pass without comment. if we're going to bicker over what a 'valid response' is to TV and its mainstream criticism, I would say the deafening silence over the moral bankruptcy and wholesale exploitation of a clearly sick state of affairs like Honey Boo Boo is much more damning than anything anyone has written about Lena Dunham and how much they like her show.

but that's just if we really want to take this discussion to a 'moral' place.

I'm fine leaving it as viewer-response, in which case telling someone else (we'll just leave gender out of it in this clause, even though it's obvious to anyone with eyes that gender is a key factor in this whole Girls phenomenon) what they should and shouldn't like is asinine, and you'd be better off focusing your energies on talking about what you like (i.e. Kareem Abdul Jabbar, Jim Brown, Muhammad Ali etc.) than 'hate-watching' and judging the tastes of others.

___________

HOPE!
https://vine.co/v/i7JjIBL3Qix
https://vine.co/v/i7JtqEFwxDu

  

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Frank Longo
Member since Nov 18th 2003
83043 posts
Wed Feb-06-13 02:29 PM

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166. "That's the real question:"
In response to Reply # 156


  

          

>>Because I could counter with my anecdotal examples of girls
>>who were angry at me for saying the show "doesn't interest
>me"
>>and called Dunham "the voice of a generation."
>
>you could, and I would agree with anyone and everyone who
>would want to call those girls obnoxious. but were we talking
>about the critique those girls were offering or the show Girls
>itself? it's a worthwhile distinction.

Since I think the critique is exactly what makes people both drawn to Girls and drawn to hate on it. If Girls aired on Starz on Tuesdays at 11 PM, and it wasn't on the cover of magazines, it'd be cancelled like so many other "this is how people are today" shows that cable television offers.

>but as long as we're judging shows along the rubric "how does
>it make you feel?" then every single response is equally
>valid. it's The Problem with 'reader-response' critiques
>(it's also why so much modern pop criticism is intellectually
>bankrupt, so much of it has no real bearing in any substantive
>form of critical thinking -- and yes, the 'blogosphere,'
>twitter, message boards et. al. have only exacerbated this
>problem)

There's only so far that pop criticism can remove itself from how it makes the writer feel, though. Isn't one's view of the zeitgeist and of the term "culture" itself not much more than a feeling, that the fashionistas in any artform define the "next big thing" by what FEELS important? How does one accurately provide critical analysis of something like popular culture without delving into personal feelings or the personal feelings of others? (I realize "criticism of the art or lack thereof within pop criticism" is an entirely different conversation that doesn't necessarily need to be on the Sports board.)

>>Furthermore, the point made above how backlash against
>Dunham
>>is less about her being a woman and more about the media's
>>insistence of her brilliance is on the money. Anything that
>>the media insists is amazing gets loved or hated on an equal
>>scale. Anything the media generally ignores that was created
>>by a woman isn't hated, or if it's hated, then no one
>accuses
>>that hatred to be founded in misogyny.
>
>right -- and while we bicker over exactly how we all should
>feel about some privileged white socialites in NYC, wholly
>exploitative, truly disturbing, unquestionably intellectually
>bankrupt shows like Here Comes Honey Boo Boo come to take over
>entire cable channels (not just buttress an already quality
>range of offering like HBO) and people let such actual
>creative atrocities pass without comment. if we're going to
>bicker over what a 'valid response' is to TV and its
>mainstream criticism, I would say the deafening silence over
>the moral bankruptcy and wholesale exploitation of a clearly
>sick state of affairs like Honey Boo Boo is much more damning
>than anything anyone has written about Lena Dunham and how
>much they like her show.
>
>but that's just if we really want to take this discussion to a
>'moral' place.

Ah, but since morality is subjective, one could easily dismiss Dunham's sexual commentary as "cheap shocks" and put it on a similar plane of existence as Honey Boo Boo. I'd be willing to bet there's a large subset of society that would prefer their teenage daughter watch Honey Boo Boo than Girls based primarily on the foundation of comparative "morality."

Furthermore, one could also argue that the levels of exploitation between Honey Boo Boo and Girls are similar, as that family is equally aware what they're getting themselves into as Dunham is when she takes off her clothes and subjects herself to awkward sex scenes. One is marketed as a "reality show" and the other is marketed as "a show about reality." Granted, I'm merely (and probably annoyingly) playing devil's advocate here, as I also despise Honey Boo Boo, but embracing one's capacity to engage in stupid behavior is the point of many reality TV shows... and doesn't seem to be terribly far from the point of Girls. Girls just broadly adds some shades of grey to the mix.

It just depends what you're offended by and what you find morally and/or artistically bankrupt. Those things are all subjective as well.

>I'm fine leaving it as viewer-response, in which case telling
>someone else (we'll just leave gender out of it in this
>clause, even though it's obvious to anyone with eyes that
>gender is a key factor in this whole Girls phenomenon) what
>they should and shouldn't like is asinine, and you'd be better
>off focusing your energies on talking about what you like
>(i.e. Kareem Abdul Jabbar, Jim Brown, Muhammad Ali etc.) than
>'hate-watching' and judging the tastes of others.

I went on a quasi-rant in PTP about the zeitgeist and how tricky it is to avoid watching shows that everyone in your circle watches, as if I don't watch it, I "need to try it," and if I try it and don't like it, then I'm "a hater." In general, I totally agree that hate-watching is pointless (and I too haven't watched Girls since the first season, nor Walking Dead, nor many of the shows my friends insist I should watch), but I understand the desire to watch something in order to have a fully informed opinion.

For instance, I feel weird having written so much considering I've watched, like, five episodes of Girls. I'm mostly just trying to distract myself from my work.

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smutsboy
Member since Jun 29th 2002
32503 posts
Wed Feb-06-13 09:18 PM

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188. "Poor silencing technique. "
In response to Reply # 134


  

          

Just what we need: another male commenting on everything, telling people what to like (or why), and telling others not speak on a topic.


>Like Walleye alluded to, there are/haven been dozens of
>shows that do the exact same thing as 'Girls', even better,
>on free television.

No there haven't.

I can't think of a single show that was written, produced AND stars a woman. Which was the point Walleye responded to.

It is significant for that alone. Let alone your misplaced theories about why this show was created and what value it offers, as if it has anything to do with you.

  

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Orbit_Established
Member since Oct 27th 2002
52563 posts
Wed Feb-06-13 11:32 PM

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193. "LOL. The fuck this have to do with anything? "
In response to Reply # 188


  

          


>I can't think of a single show that was written, produced AND
>stars a woman. Which was the point Walleye responded to.
>
>It is significant for that alone. Let alone your misplaced
>theories about why this show was created and what value it
>offers, as if it has anything to do with you.

Well, shit -- if we like 'Girls' for FEMINIST reasons,
I'm FINE with that. Problem is, that isn't why it wins
a Golden Globe. That isn't why we call it a "defining
piece of artwork for this generation."

'Amos and Andy' was one of the first with an all-black
cast. You don't see it revered as fine art, do you?

Soooo


Shush

  

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smutsboy
Member since Jun 29th 2002
32503 posts
Thu Feb-07-13 08:47 AM

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202. "lol. everything. it has everything to do with my point."
In response to Reply # 193


  

          

It is hilarious that at times you forget the value of the show has little do with your tastes.

It is hilarious that you are commenting on why "women" would like the show.

>Well, shit -- if we like 'Girls' for FEMINIST reasons,
>I'm FINE with that.

No, you're actually not. In fact you went so far as to cheap shot a couple males for speaking on gender.

You wrote literally hundreds and hundreds of words and didn't acknowledge value in terms of gender or feminism ONCE, in fact repeatedly you EXPLICITLY ignored or criticized its feminist value.

So stop lying. You think it is no better than Jersey Shore. I think it is important because it is the only show I can think of that is written, directed by and stars women.

Keep it moving.

  

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Walleye
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14523 posts
Thu Feb-07-13 09:38 AM

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203. ""Directed by" is new here"
In response to Reply # 202


          

Is there a reason you replaced "produced"?

______________________________

"Walleye, a lot of things are going to go wrong in your life that technically aren't your fault. Always remember that this doesn't make you any less of an idiot"

--Walleye's Dad

  

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magilla vanilla
Member since Sep 13th 2002
17591 posts
Thu Feb-07-13 10:21 AM

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206. "I was about to say something about Tina Fey"
In response to Reply # 203


  

          

but yeah, "Directed" is new. And they're both taking the similar "low-rent, less together version of me" approach to their breakout creative children.

---------------------------------
Photo zine(some images NSFW): http://bit.ly/USaSPhoto

"This (and every, actually) conversation needs more Chesterton and less Mike Francesa." - Walleye

  

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Bombastic
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Thu Feb-07-13 10:29 AM

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208. "difference being 30 Rock was actually a great show"
In response to Reply # 206


  

          

>but yeah, "Directed" is new. And they're both taking the
>similar "low-rent, less together version of me" approach to
>their breakout creative children.

  

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Walleye
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Thu Feb-07-13 10:36 AM

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210. "Ditto for "The Mindy Project""
In response to Reply # 206


          

>but yeah, "Directed" is new. And they're both taking the
>similar "low-rent, less together version of me" approach to
>their breakout creative children.

Though Mindy's job isn't low-rent there, I suppose. She's got writer, actor, and executive producer credits there. And the show is named after her, which is worth something if the argument is that neanderthals are reacting poorly to autonomous women ruining our story time with their own ideas.

I don't know what else I was watching on Tuesday nights, maybe the dearly departed "Don't Trust the B," but I really like her show after a kind of iffy pilot.

Whitney Cummings has the same three tags as those two on her own terrible show, and two of them for the similarly wretched and women-starring "2 Broke Girls." At the very least, it's an impressive energy level for miserable television.

And I rather like the catch-all "creative children" here. I don't want to be uncharitable to what smuts is doing here, but the three-fold crediting process he's brought up is doing more to exclude shows that are unambiguously the product of women's creative efforts than it is to highlight something unique about "Girls". I don't think Tina Fey's apparent disinterest in directing made 30 Rock any less *hers* and I don't think any viewer ranging from casual to moderately serious would point to the list of directors for that show (which include a ton of women) and say that somehow muddies its from-a-woman-ness.

This whole thing is starting to be less fun. I kind of like "Girls." Not enough to pay for an HBO subscription, but enough so that when I was staying someplace with HBO this summer I sat through the end of a lot of shitty movies because an episode of "Girls" was only about forty minutes away. I just don't really think it's a big deal, and though I'll entertain an argument on that point I'm also pretty comfortable being a jerk when people guess at retrograde motives for not thinking it's a big deal.


______________________________

"Walleye, a lot of things are going to go wrong in your life that technically aren't your fault. Always remember that this doesn't make you any less of an idiot"

--Walleye's Dad

  

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Orbit_Established
Member since Oct 27th 2002
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Thu Feb-07-13 10:44 AM

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211. ""Jamarcus Russell kinda reminds me of Randall Cunningham. ""
In response to Reply # 206
Thu Feb-07-13 10:45 AM by Orbit_Established

  

          


Says the allegedly enlightened white football scout.

----------------------------



O_E: "Acts like an asshole and posts with imperial disdain"




"I ORBITs the solar system, listenin..."

(C)Keith Murray, "

  

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bshelly
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Thu Feb-07-13 10:48 AM

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212. "tangent alert: they're still doing that shit with jamarcus"
In response to Reply # 211


  

          

the article about him trying to comeback mentioned his "unlimited athletic talent."

uh, no. he ain't fast or elusive. he has 40 fucking career rushing attempts for 175 yards.

All he's got is a big arm. but because he black, he must have unlimited athletic talent.

----
bshelly

"You (Fisher) could get fired, Les Snead could get fired, Kevin Demoff could get fired, but I will always be Eric Dickerson.” (c) The God

  

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Orbit_Established
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213. "Yup. And this Tiny Fey/Dunham analogy is hilariously ironic"
In response to Reply # 212


  

          


especially because the people authoring it are telling
me that I'm sexist




----------------------------



O_E: "Acts like an asshole and posts with imperial disdain"




"I ORBITs the solar system, listenin..."

(C)Keith Murray, "

  

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magilla vanilla
Member since Sep 13th 2002
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229. "I did no such thing, sir."
In response to Reply # 213


  

          

>
>especially because the people authoring it are telling
>me that I'm sexist

I'm just disagreeing with you on a straight-up artistic evaluation.

---------------------------------
Photo zine(some images NSFW): http://bit.ly/USaSPhoto

"This (and every, actually) conversation needs more Chesterton and less Mike Francesa." - Walleye

  

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magilla vanilla
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214. "Oh, she's Josh Freeman to me, not Jamarcus"
In response to Reply # 211


  

          

Please note that I'm not saying Girls is a great show. I'm saying it's enjoyable, and a perfectly valid artistic expression (see my "Terry Richardson territory" response vis-a-vis art and commerce).

And I thought Tiny Furniture was technically well-made, but awfully characterized film(again, we differ greatly on being able to call a film well-made if the writing isn't there, but I digress). The characters are similar on Girls, yes, but have at least a little bit of forward motion sufficient to set it apart (having Shoshanna and Marnie as main characters so that Lena and Jemima Kirke's characters aren't just having an indifferent-off also helps).

---------------------------------
Photo zine(some images NSFW): http://bit.ly/USaSPhoto

"This (and every, actually) conversation needs more Chesterton and less Mike Francesa." - Walleye

  

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Orbit_Established
Member since Oct 27th 2002
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Thu Feb-07-13 10:53 AM

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215. "Josh Freeman isn't anything like Cunningham either, Einstein. "
In response to Reply # 214
Thu Feb-07-13 10:55 AM by Orbit_Established

  

          



My goodness

*WhOOOOSSHHH**


----------------------------



O_E: "Acts like an asshole and posts with imperial disdain"




"I ORBITs the solar system, listenin..."

(C)Keith Murray, "

  

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magilla vanilla
Member since Sep 13th 2002
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220. "In that they've both held the same position, yes both groups are similar"
In response to Reply # 215


  

          

And that's what I'm saying is that they run their shows and express different things.

Fey is fast-paced, incredible to watch, and inventive.

Dunham is successful and competent if unspectacular, but capable of a surprise every now and then.

So how am I wrong in making that analogy?

---------------------------------
Photo zine(some images NSFW): http://bit.ly/USaSPhoto

"This (and every, actually) conversation needs more Chesterton and less Mike Francesa." - Walleye

  

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Orbit_Established
Member since Oct 27th 2002
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Thu Feb-07-13 11:10 AM

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222. "Freeman can throw the ball far. Cunningham threw the ball far. "
In response to Reply # 220


  

          

>And that's what I'm saying is that they run their shows and
>express different things.
>
>Fey is fast-paced, incredible to watch, and inventive.
>
>Dunham is successful and competent if unspectacular, but
>capable of a surprise every now and then.
>
>So how am I wrong in making that analogy?

My goodness.

----------------------------



O_E: "Acts like an asshole and posts with imperial disdain"




"I ORBITs the solar system, listenin..."

(C)Keith Murray, "

  

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magilla vanilla
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228. "AND? Dunham's the head writer. Fey was the head writer."
In response to Reply # 222
Thu Feb-07-13 11:42 AM by magilla vanilla

  

          

My golly.

EDIT: Also, Dunham straight up said she was influenced by Tina's work (or at least ability to helm a writing staff) at the Globes. So the analogy ain't altogether off.

---------------------------------
Photo zine(some images NSFW): http://bit.ly/USaSPhoto

"This (and every, actually) conversation needs more Chesterton and less Mike Francesa." - Walleye

  

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Orbit_Established
Member since Oct 27th 2002
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231. "Seneca Wallace is a QB. Cam Newton is a QB. "
In response to Reply # 228


  

          

>My golly.
>
>EDIT: Also, Dunham straight up said she was influenced by
>Tina's work (or at least ability to helm a writing staff) at
>the Globes. So the analogy ain't altogether off.

Question: you haven't, for a second, thought to sit and
re-think your position on some of this?

Just curious if you're just going to concede that your
attempts at being understanding are strong-armed and
chauvinistic, or if you're going to be keep being...
chauvinistic.

Because you are.

Carry on.


----------------------------



O_E: "Acts like an asshole and posts with imperial disdain"




"I ORBITs the solar system, listenin..."

(C)Keith Murray, "

  

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magilla vanilla
Member since Sep 13th 2002
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Thu Feb-07-13 11:56 AM

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233. "Oh so comparing things is chauvinistic?"
In response to Reply # 231


  

          

Especially when I raised the Tina Fey point BECAUSE smuts said Girls was "the only show" where a woman held all of that power.

Fuck, I don't even know why you and I are arguing on THIS point.

---------------------------------
Photo zine(some images NSFW): http://bit.ly/USaSPhoto

"This (and every, actually) conversation needs more Chesterton and less Mike Francesa." - Walleye

  

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magilla vanilla
Member since Sep 13th 2002
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Thu Feb-07-13 12:06 PM

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236. "Fey and Dunham cast themselves as unsuccessful and unfocused"
In response to Reply # 231


  

          

when they're both successful and supremely put-together.

---------------------------------
Photo zine(some images NSFW): http://bit.ly/USaSPhoto

"This (and every, actually) conversation needs more Chesterton and less Mike Francesa." - Walleye

  

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Orbit_Established
Member since Oct 27th 2002
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Thu Feb-07-13 12:21 PM

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239. "Weird, sorta sounds like this Allen, Woody guy that people like. "
In response to Reply # 236
Thu Feb-07-13 12:21 PM by Orbit_Established

  

          

>when they're both successful and supremely put-together.

And now that I think about it: 3/4 of all comic-dramatic
writers, who poke fun at themselves, put their insecurities
on full display, write about the little things that people
don't notice.

Seinfeld, Jerry did that.

Even Hart, Kevin and Pryor, Richard and lots of other
non-white, non-woman.

But remind me:

You're progressive and open-minded because you've grouped
Lena Dunham and Tiny Fey based on the fact that they are quirky
comic writers who are self-deprecating?

Lol

Here's a tip: that is called sexism. You've incorrectly grouped
individuals based on a perceived similarity that isn't unique
to the two of them at all.

My goodness.



----------------------------



O_E: "Acts like an asshole and posts with imperial disdain"




"I ORBITs the solar system, listenin..."

(C)Keith Murray, "

  

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magilla vanilla
Member since Sep 13th 2002
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Thu Feb-07-13 12:29 PM

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242. "I'm not even having the sexism conversation with you"
In response to Reply # 239
Thu Feb-07-13 12:33 PM by magilla vanilla

  

          

THAT whole part of the conversation doesn't interest me. The only reason I even brought Tina up, again, is because Smuts raised the point that Dunham is breaking barriers, and I wanted to give respect to Tina.

And I don't know where you're getting that I'm trying to position myself as open-minded and progressive. I just think that, even if it is mostly commercially driven, being a television program after all, Girls is a perfectly valid artistic expression. You might not LIKE what it expresses, but it *is* artistic, just as 30 Rock is, just as Community is, and just as the latest Chuck Lorre Joke Delivery Engine is. Now, if you think it's BAD art, then that's cool. But to dismiss it as NOT art is an invalid criticism to me.

Keep your debate opponents straight, man. You're having the sexism fight with Smuts. GAWSH.

But hey, if you want to lump Lena in with Seinfeld, Woody and Kevin Hart, I'm sure she'd take that compliment.

---------------------------------
Photo zine(some images NSFW): http://bit.ly/USaSPhoto

"This (and every, actually) conversation needs more Chesterton and less Mike Francesa." - Walleye

  

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Walleye
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240. "I'm going to keep roping Mindy Kaling into this"
In response to Reply # 236


          

If I'm going to fully jump in, can we call her willingness to embrace the living-trainwreck model of Fey/Dunham at the same time as casting herself as somebody organized and focused enough to finish medical school and deliver babies a little bit of a wink and nod at this practice?

Because I'm probably going to call it that. Just... FYI.

______________________________

"Walleye, a lot of things are going to go wrong in your life that technically aren't your fault. Always remember that this doesn't make you any less of an idiot"

--Walleye's Dad

  

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magilla vanilla
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Thu Feb-07-13 12:31 PM

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243. "As is your wont."
In response to Reply # 240


  

          

And I think, having not seen an episode of that show, that I can be on board with your call.

---------------------------------
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"This (and every, actually) conversation needs more Chesterton and less Mike Francesa." - Walleye

  

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Bombastic
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Thu Feb-07-13 12:33 PM

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245. "is Mindy's show good? I liked her on The Office & know she can write"
In response to Reply # 240


  

          

so I was ready to watch the show but never got around to watching a full episode (which basically these days requires me setting the DVR for it in order to fastforward & watch on my schedule).

As a result I just see the opening segments from the overlap of 'New Girl' recordings (that show is pretty decent, shout-out to Big Nick) and the results looked kinda 'eh' to me.

  

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Walleye
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250. "I really like it"
In response to Reply # 245


          

It's not perfect and took awhile to shrug off the common early-in-series problem of over exposition. "Mindy is all like this!" "But her friends are all like this!" "And her eccentric co-workers are just wacky/sarcastic/etc."

I think if a show manages to avoid that, that's a sign of a good show. But not all good shows manage to avoid it. A Venn Diagram would be helpful.

I think there's a chance it could overreach to 30 Rock level. As it is, she's done a nice job of twisting the conventional work/relationship sitcom aspects in some small but fun ways. I hope she stays right there for awhile until they settle into a nice rhythm.

______________________________

"Walleye, a lot of things are going to go wrong in your life that technically aren't your fault. Always remember that this doesn't make you any less of an idiot"

--Walleye's Dad

  

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magilla vanilla
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Thu Feb-07-13 12:57 PM

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252. ""New Girl" was a similar "grower" it sounds like"
In response to Reply # 250


  

          

SO given how good that's become and with your endorsement, I think I might give Ms. Kaling a shot.

---------------------------------
Photo zine(some images NSFW): http://bit.ly/USaSPhoto

"This (and every, actually) conversation needs more Chesterton and less Mike Francesa." - Walleye

  

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Bombastic
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255. "thanks, both you & walleye, I'm gonna give it a shot"
In response to Reply # 252


  

          

  

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Walleye
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256. "Hooray!"
In response to Reply # 255


          

I will say it's pretty slight. If it's not for you, nobody's going to harangue you in a decade like you just skipped "The Wire." The past few episodes have been the best, so if you don't like one of those then you probably don't need to proceed much further.

______________________________

"Walleye, a lot of things are going to go wrong in your life that technically aren't your fault. Always remember that this doesn't make you any less of an idiot"

--Walleye's Dad

  

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Walleye
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230. "This matters to me a lot"
In response to Reply # 214


          

>The characters are similar on Girls, yes, but have
>at least a little bit of forward motion sufficient to set it
>apart

"Tiny Furniture" was aggressively tedious. Even that "little bit of forward motion" goes a long way to make something watchable.

______________________________

"Walleye, a lot of things are going to go wrong in your life that technically aren't your fault. Always remember that this doesn't make you any less of an idiot"

--Walleye's Dad

  

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smutsboy
Member since Jun 29th 2002
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Thu Feb-07-13 11:06 AM

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219. "it's all of the above"
In response to Reply # 203


  

          

really I should have said all four: stars, directed, written, produced

to which I would add: the cast is majority women

Fey & 30Rock was significant for similar reasons, but at the same time, I think the fact that Tracy Morgan and Alex Baldwin were central characters (and the reason a lot of people watched) deflected the kneejerk reaction people have to largely female-created/executed/alloftheabove productions.

  

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Walleye
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Thu Feb-07-13 11:24 AM

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225. "I think that 30 Rock point is begging the question"
In response to Reply # 219


          

If a show doesn't get the reaction you expect from a public you clearly think very little of, it must be that there's something different about that show.

______________________________

"Walleye, a lot of things are going to go wrong in your life that technically aren't your fault. Always remember that this doesn't make you any less of an idiot"

--Walleye's Dad

  

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smutsboy
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Thu Feb-07-13 12:04 PM

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235. "I think tv, hollywood, pop culture and criticsm is pretty sexist"
In response to Reply # 225


  

          

do you actually disagree?

don't paint my observation as some kind of smug, broad, empty condescension towards "the public"

Unless that's all you think I'm saying. In which case, um, more power to you. We'll have to disagree.

  

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Walleye
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237. "Sure, but you've got singular interlocuturs here"
In response to Reply # 235


          

Not specters like Hollywood or TV. And I don't think you've made an effort to engage us in good faith.

The circular reasoning above is part of it, but you've also been aggressively interested in characterizing your live opponents here as sexist from your initial post.

______________________________

"Walleye, a lot of things are going to go wrong in your life that technically aren't your fault. Always remember that this doesn't make you any less of an idiot"

--Walleye's Dad

  

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smutsboy
Member since Jun 29th 2002
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Thu Feb-07-13 12:23 PM

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241. "I think the feminist aspect of the show's significance"
In response to Reply # 237


  

          

wasn't really given proper due in this discussion, which was all a sub-point of my point: that Girls is under a tighter microscope because of gender, and that is why it gets talked about so much more than one would expect.

That does not mean I think the people in this discussion are sexist.

Otherwise, can you reference a specific post?

  

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Walleye
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Thu Feb-07-13 12:32 PM

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244. "The circular reasoning of post #219..."
In response to Reply # 241


          

... neatly excludes any space where somebody can disagree with you for a reason that isn't misogyny. It's fundamentally uncharitable.

______________________________

"Walleye, a lot of things are going to go wrong in your life that technically aren't your fault. Always remember that this doesn't make you any less of an idiot"

--Walleye's Dad

  

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smutsboy
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Thu Feb-07-13 12:36 PM

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247. "so it wasn't until post 219"
In response to Reply # 244


  

          

that I became "aggressively interested in characterizing your live opponents here as sexist from your initial post."?

  

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Walleye
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Thu Feb-07-13 12:47 PM

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249. "That's when I stopped giving you the benefit of the doubt"
In response to Reply # 247


          

I thought your initial post came in awfully hot, but considered the chance that you'd try to talk through it. That's not what happened, and two-nineteen is what made me believe that wasn't your objective.

______________________________

"Walleye, a lot of things are going to go wrong in your life that technically aren't your fault. Always remember that this doesn't make you any less of an idiot"

--Walleye's Dad

  

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Orbit_Established
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Thu Feb-07-13 10:25 AM

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207. "HOLD UP!!! You like it because of GENDER affirmative action!?!?!?!?"
In response to Reply # 202
Thu Feb-07-13 10:32 AM by Orbit_Established

  

          

>You wrote literally hundreds and hundreds of words and didn't
>acknowledge value in terms of gender or feminism ONCE, in fact
>repeatedly you EXPLICITLY ignored or criticized its feminist
>value.
>
>So stop lying. You think it is no better than Jersey Shore. I
>think it is important because it is the only show I can think
>of that is written, directed by and stars women.


And IM THE FUCKING SEXIST!?!?!?

Bwahahahahahahahahhaahhahahahahah
ahahahahahahahahahaahahahahahahah
ahahahahahahahahahaahahahahahahah
ahahahahahahahahahaahahahahahahah
ahahahahahahahahahaahahahahahahah
ahahahahahahahahahaahahahahahahah
ahahahahahahahahahaahahahahahahah
ahahahahahahahahahaahahahahahahah
ahahahahahahahahahaahahahahahahah
ahahahahahahahahahaahahahahahahah
ahahahahahahahahahaahahahahahahah
ahahahahahahahahahaahahahahahahah
ahahahahahahahahahaahahahahahahah
ahahahahahahahahahaahahahahahahah
ahahahahahahahahahaahahahahahahah
ahahahahahahahahahaahahahahahahah
ahahahahahahahahahaahahahahahahah
ahahahahahahahahahaahahahahahahah
ahahahahahahahahahaahahahahahahah
ahahahahahahahahahaahahahahahahah
ahahahahahahahahahaahahahahahahah
ahahahahahahahahahaahahahahahahah
ahahahahahahahahahaahahahahahahah
ahahahahahahahahahaahahahahahahah
ahahahahahahahahahaahahahahahahah
ahahahahahahahahahaahahahahahahah


My take: the show is dumb. Just like lots of shows. It
doesn't deserve any more criticism than a lot of other
dumb shows, but I'll be damned if I call it the defining
show of our culture

Your take: it doesn't matter what's in the show; its
important solely because it stars, is directed and produced
by a woman.



Guess who the fucking sexist is?


Bwahahahahahahhaha


Yup! You barely even pay attention to what's going on
in the show. You like the show to fulfill your chauvinist
guilt.

(and I don't have to spell the shit out of for you,
but you bet there's a perfect race analogy in here)

I give women more credit than that. There are literally
thousands of talented women writers. I buy their shit.
I big up their shit. I support their shit.

Why?

Because I read it/watch it and its fucking good.

Because women are at least as talented as men in most
arenas.

And why do you read it/watch it?

Because they are women and you feel like you're sensitive
and understanding if you like it because they are women.

My god.

Having already slaughtered race, hipsterism now invades
gender....I didn't know people like you existed.



----------------------------



O_E: "Acts like an asshole and posts with imperial disdain"




"I ORBITs the solar system, listenin..."

(C)Keith Murray, "

  

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smutsboy
Member since Jun 29th 2002
32503 posts
Thu Feb-07-13 11:09 AM

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221. "so many irrelevant tangents. so much wasted words."
In response to Reply # 207


  

          

par for your course, though.

it's an important show.

read a feminist blog or two. there's tons of criticism/discussion about what it means.

  

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Orbit_Established
Member since Oct 27th 2002
52563 posts
Thu Feb-07-13 11:16 AM

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223. "I am literally appalled, offended and disgusted at your stance. "
In response to Reply # 221


  

          

>par for your course, though.
>
>it's an important show.
>
>read a feminist blog or two. there's tons of
>criticism/discussion about what it means.

You are everything that's wrong with gender
discussion.

It really is an embarrassment and it sets WOMEN
back even further.

You are authoring the most sexist commentary in
this entire post and then run back to feminist
blogs for street cred.

Just stop it.

You know less about women than I do, support women
artists less than I do, and are more sexist than
I am.

Lena Dunham does not want you to like her because she's
a woman. She wants you to think her writing is clever,
smart, funny, telling a unique and interesting story
about a relatively new demographic in this country and
world.

I think her writing is bad, her jokes aren't funny and
that's she mostly famous for being a member of NYC arthouse
royalty. And she'd respect my opinion more than yours,
because you don't take the time to appreciate *her* or
the nuances to what she's trying to do.

YOU HAVE OBJECTIFIED HER into a woman. Not me.

Shame on you.



----------------------------



O_E: "Acts like an asshole and posts with imperial disdain"




"I ORBITs the solar system, listenin..."

(C)Keith Murray, "

  

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smutsboy
Member since Jun 29th 2002
32503 posts
Thu Feb-07-13 11:22 AM

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224. "you twist discussion into the most inane back-and-forth."
In response to Reply # 223


  

          

carry on.

  

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Orbit_Established
Member since Oct 27th 2002
52563 posts
Thu Feb-07-13 11:25 AM

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226. "Then don't insinuate that I'm sexist, when clearly you are. "
In response to Reply # 224


  

          


That's where you went wrong.

You are the biggest women-hater in this thread.

----------------------------



O_E: "Acts like an asshole and posts with imperial disdain"




"I ORBITs the solar system, listenin..."

(C)Keith Murray, "

  

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smutsboy
Member since Jun 29th 2002
32503 posts
Thu Feb-07-13 12:20 PM

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238. "nah. that's just your defensiveness"
In response to Reply # 226


  

          

and your hurt that your understanding may not be all there is to something.

I never said you were sexist. Nor do I think you are sexist in this discussion.

all I said was that using the same techniques used in discussions of race or privilege, you tried to silence the two of us males who tried to speak on gender. It's a pretty standard strategy by a dominant person trying to drown out criticism of status quo. Google it if you want.

Also I said you largely ignored the feminist aspect of the show's significance until I pointed it out.

^objectively true^

And now you're trying to present the complicated aspects of affirmative action and underrepresented voices as some kind of profound insight, as if that's not part of every gender and race discussion EVER. So I hate to ruin your fun, but it is actually something I'm aware of.

Since you've managed to derail yet another discussion, I'll recap my 4 main points. Feel free to respond if you having something new to say or if you're done making this discussion about YOU. Otherwise I personally am done here.

1. There's a lot to criticize Girls of, from its lack of people of color to its navel gazing and narrow socioeconomic representation of life in NYC.

2. As a show, the quality of its jokes and characters is largely a matter of personal opinion. Personally I think the show is pretty good but I don't love it. (reread for emphasis, as you seem confused about that last point)

3. The production itself is a significant (careful not to twist that word into something i'm not actually saying) solely because of how female-dominated it is, from cast to writing to production to directing. (Again I ask for an example of another show similar in ALL of those areas, but nobody can name one.)

4. Because of (3.), Girls is under a much tighter microscope than almost any other show. And that is why discussion of it is far out of balance compared to the show's significance otherwise.


  

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Orbit_Established
Member since Oct 27th 2002
52563 posts
Thu Feb-07-13 12:33 PM

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246. "*Mutumbo Finger*"
In response to Reply # 238


  

          


Watch how easy this is:

>1. There's a lot to criticize Girls of, from its lack of
>people of color to its navel gazing and narrow socioeconomic
>representation of life in NYC.

So, there is a lot to dislike about the show.

(weird, Orbit_Established doesn't even care about this)

>2. As a show, the quality of its jokes and characters is
>largely a matter of personal opinion. Personally I think the
>show is pretty good but I don't love it. (reread for emphasis,
>as you seem confused about that last point)


You don't like the show.



>3. The production itself is a significant (careful not to
>twist that word into something i'm not actually saying) solely
>because of how female-dominated it is, from cast to writing to
>production to directing. (Again I ask for an example of
>another show similar in ALL of those areas, but nobody can
>name one.)


So, there's a lot of reasons to shit on the show, you
don't like the show, but it deserves to be watched because
of the female presence, independent of the fact that you
don't actually like it.


That is called being "sexist."


You've objectified her and the show. You are characterizing
it by its "woman-ness" ahead of any other potentially
essential characteristic.


>4. Because of (3.), Girls is under a much tighter microscope
>than almost any other show. And that is why discussion of it
>is far out of balance compared to the show's significance
>otherwise.

Okay, so the show has lots to dislike about it, you
don't like it, you watch it because it has women, and
because it is woman it gets more credit and criticism
than it deserves.

Point #4 is irrelevant, by the way. And almost nobody
gives a shit about the fact that its totally woman run.

People like it because they think its smart and funny.

People don't like it because they think its dumb and unfunny.

And that's what Lena Durham would prefer.




----------------------------



O_E: "Acts like an asshole and posts with imperial disdain"




"I ORBITs the solar system, listenin..."

(C)Keith Murray, "

  

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smutsboy
Member since Jun 29th 2002
32503 posts
Thu Feb-07-13 12:39 PM

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248. "*shrugs*"
In response to Reply # 246


  

          

nothing new.

  

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Deebot
Member since Oct 21st 2004
26640 posts
Thu Feb-07-13 11:52 AM

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232. "basically"
In response to Reply # 223


  

          

>Lena Dunham does not want you to like her because she's
>a woman. She wants you to think her writing is clever,
>smart, funny, telling a unique and interesting story
>about a relatively new demographic in this country and
>world.

>I think her writing is bad, her jokes aren't funny and
>that's she mostly famous for being a member of NYC arthouse
>royalty. And she'd respect my opinion more than yours,
>because you don't take the time to appreciate *her* or
>the nuances to what she's trying to do.

basically.

================================

"Brownsville, never ran never will unless you strapped and I'm not fuck it I gotta peel, P!"

-Sean Price

  

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soundsop
Charter member
12986 posts
Tue Feb-05-13 01:18 PM

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23. "from?????"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

>Maybe this will help: I have a degree from UCLA.

yep

  

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Binlahab
Charter member
182540 posts
Tue Feb-05-13 01:40 PM

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39. "damn kareem! dont hull em like that dog! they didnt know!"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

sheesh

stall em out man

  

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Marauder21
Charter member
49515 posts
Tue Feb-05-13 01:40 PM

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40. "No way, that last episode was easily three and a half jockstraps"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

------

12 play and 12 planets are enlighten for all the Aliens to Party and free those on the Sex Planet-maxxx

XBL: trkc21
Twitter: @tyrcasey

  

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Deebot
Member since Oct 21st 2004
26640 posts
Tue Feb-05-13 01:49 PM

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46. "My mom met him in a Milwaukee grocery store back in the day"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

when he was Lew Alcindor.

You jelly?

Mad?

Both?

================================

"Brownsville, never ran never will unless you strapped and I'm not fuck it I gotta peel, P!"

-Sean Price

  

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bshelly
Charter member
71482 posts
Tue Feb-05-13 02:00 PM

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51. "...and that's the story of how little Deebot was made"
In response to Reply # 46


  

          

----
bshelly

"You (Fisher) could get fired, Les Snead could get fired, Kevin Demoff could get fired, but I will always be Eric Dickerson.” (c) The God

  

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Deebot
Member since Oct 21st 2004
26640 posts
Tue Feb-05-13 02:02 PM

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53. "Might be onto something...I got dat intelligence and athleticism"
In response to Reply # 51