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Subject: "How many "elite" rebounders are there in the '12-13 NBA?" Previous topic | Next topic
celery77
Member since Aug 04th 2005
25307 posts
Fri Jan-18-13 11:27 AM

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"How many "elite" rebounders are there in the '12-13 NBA?"


  

          

As the trade deadline approaches and every team I see talking about moves has to say "we're looking at adding a true 7-footer if that's possible, some size on the front line" I'm stuck thinking there just ISN'T that much size or interior grit left in the NBA. The days of Charles Oakley or Dale Davis existing solely to push guys around the middle just aren't with us any more.

Take a look at the top 20 rebounders in the NBA right now. JJ Hickson? Okay, he's a ball hawk with an A+ motor, but he's not exactly dominating the interior en route to a division crown. Demarcus Cousins? I mean if we subtract all the rebounds he might get boarding his own terrible shots, where does that leave us? And lord knows the Kings aren't 'good' because of his 'contributions.'

Rebounds Per Game
1. Dwight Howard-LAL 12.7
2. Zach Randolph-MEM 11.6
3. Nikola Vucevic-ORL 11.2
4. Omer Asik-HOU 11.2
5. Tyson Chandler-NYK 11.0
6. J.J. Hickson-POR 11.0
7. David Lee-GSW 10.9
8. Joakim Noah-CHI 10.7
9. DeMarcus Cousins-SAC 10.4
10. Kenneth Faried-DEN 10.0
11. Al Jefferson-UTA 9.8
12. Carlos Boozer-CHI 9.7
13. Al Horford-ATL 9.6
14. Tim Duncan-SAS 9.6
15. Tristan Thompson-CLE 9.3
16. Greg Monroe-DET 9.2
17. Marcin Gortat-PHO 9.0
18. Reggie Evans-BRK 8.7
19. LaMarcus Aldridge-POR 8.6
20. Larry Sanders-MIL 8.6

easily referenced #s aside, how would you rank the best rebounders in the NBA right now? you know, dudes you'd actually feel comfortable sending to battle if you had to make a fantasy team to play the Bad Boy Pistons or the Pat Riley early '90s Knicks.

My list:

#1 - Zach Randolph (pains me to admit, but...)
#2 - Joakim Noah (everything about his interior game is boss right now)
#3 - Kenneth Fareid (and I think he'll only get better)
#4 - Tim Duncan (yeah, he's old, but yet again the Spurs are en route to 50 wins)
#5 - Tyson Chandler (dude who knows his strengths/limits inside = invaluable)
#6 - Nikola Vucevic (who I've only watched once this year but he was def. a live wire inside)

aside from that, maaaan -- that list above has a lot of guys who get rebounds because SOMEONE has to (and obviously they're talented in that regard) but I just don't see them really being difference makers if they were playing in a throw back era where they had to compete with guys like Hakeem, Ewing, the Admiral, Oakley, Rodman, Dale Davis, Karl Malone et. al.

maybe I'm wrong and you can tell me, but that's how it looks on this Friday morning after watching the champion Heat knock off LA with Pau + Dwight by just jumping the damn passing lanes all night long...

___________

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Topic Outline
Subject Author Message Date ID
10 reasons ago 16 players averaged 10+ boards
Jan 18th 2013
1
I've never understood that -- I thought scoring has been on an upswing?
Jan 18th 2013
2
      i think rebound is a stat where some care and some don't
Jan 18th 2013
22
Andre Drummond not there yet...but will be
Jan 18th 2013
3
already there.
Jan 18th 2013
21
well, the best rebounder in the league is injured right now
Jan 18th 2013
4
I love me some Noah but he gets bodied by bigger bodies
Jan 18th 2013
5
eh i dunno man there are two kinds of rebounders
Jan 18th 2013
6
but do you think Love + Varejao could really hang with Oak + Double D?
Jan 18th 2013
10
      those guys could hang just fine IMO
Jan 18th 2013
37
Sideshow?
Jan 18th 2013
7
So Demarcus isn't an Elite Rebounder because the Kings...
Jan 18th 2013
8
Boogie is an elite athlete. that's the only '+' I'll say about his game.
Jan 18th 2013
11
      He's a top notch basketball player that's a work in progress.
Jan 18th 2013
12
           I'll give him a 2nd look when he exits Sacto, till then --> *scoreboard*
Jan 18th 2013
16
Excellent list
Jan 18th 2013
9
just for reference, these are the current rebound% leaders
Jan 18th 2013
13
damn Sideshow Andy is dominating every list, I wish he was healthy...
Jan 18th 2013
14
+ the shame w/ Reggie Evans is he sucks @ EVERYTHING except rebs
Jan 18th 2013
15
that's not true at all.
Jan 18th 2013
23
      Big Handsome don't give a fuck.
Jan 18th 2013
25
      yeah, he's physical -- I'm just talking shit mainly cuz he's so goofy
Jan 18th 2013
31
+ how the fuck is JJ Hickson killing D12 in EVERYTHING? for shame!
Jan 18th 2013
17
his best rebounding games were with lamarcus out
Jan 18th 2013
18
LA's a skill PF, almost a tweener SF, but guess what? that's okay!
Jan 18th 2013
20
I'm sick of hearing criticism of...
Jan 18th 2013
26
      to clarify.
Jan 18th 2013
27
      Where are these statistics from...
Jan 18th 2013
33
           here's the link to where I swiped the #s above, prolly what he's using:
Jan 18th 2013
34
                LMA is averaging about the same Rebounds per 48 as...
Jan 18th 2013
36
      i am too, so i hope no more proactive plea cops for him
Jan 18th 2013
28
           I was just talking about JJ Hickson, but whatevs
Jan 18th 2013
30
LOL
Jan 18th 2013
24
dang Dre Drummond got epic bamma potiential
Jan 18th 2013
19
      he trying hard and still look confused doing it
Jan 18th 2013
35
           You passed
Jan 19th 2013
40
Big Handsome and it ain't even close
Jan 18th 2013
29
he's hungry as shit
Jan 18th 2013
38
Love how bulls are on almost every list...
Jan 18th 2013
32
Faried is the only real nigga on that list
Jan 18th 2013
39

AnonymousCoward
Member since Sep 17th 2002
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Fri Jan-18-13 11:32 AM

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1. "10 reasons ago 16 players averaged 10+ boards"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

the following season 18 players did. The numbers could be the same adjusted for pace. I haven't bothered to figure it out.

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"Like 4 out of 5 things you say on OKP offend me." -FireBrand

  

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celery77
Member since Aug 04th 2005
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Fri Jan-18-13 11:38 AM

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2. "I've never understood that -- I thought scoring has been on an upswing?"
In response to Reply # 1


  

          

maybe overall efficiency is up as team offenses learn how to better attack the aggressive team D's which weren't legal in the '90s due to the 'illegal defense' rule?

or actually, I wonder if you could trace the rise in 3FGAs with an increase in guard rebounding, because the longer shots generally mean longer rebounds. or my other thought is that team's have used analytics to move more towards a team rebounding scheme than an individual rebounder having all the responsibility to ball hawk.

but yeah -- I've never understood that. I remember the days when ~15/rebs per game was just required for the rebounding crown. now Dwight is kind pulling in 12/gm while every old head they can find for comment calls him soft? it's definitely a subtle sea change that I've yet to see a good explanation for...

___________

HOPE!
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https://vine.co/v/i7JtqEFwxDu

  

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rob
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Fri Jan-18-13 02:31 PM

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22. "i think rebound is a stat where some care and some don't"
In response to Reply # 2


  

          

because if you sort for wings that rebound its not that dudes do it more in general today...great all around guys like oscar, scottie, kidd, and paul show up. and show up in multiple seasons (and on multiple teams for guys like kidd and paul)

i think when they call him soft they mean its not a priority.

there isn't a good historical rebound state. rebound rates don't work because "available rebounds" just means "compared to everyone else on the court, how many rebounds did you get?" if its a pace or offensive system or 3 point line or everybody sucks issue...then its not gonna show up.

if that metric does work for you though, only guy since the 70s who reaaaally blows today away is rodman.

  

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cgonz00cc
Member since Aug 01st 2002
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Fri Jan-18-13 11:45 AM

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3. "Andre Drummond not there yet...but will be"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

  

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Guinness
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Fri Jan-18-13 02:23 PM

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21. "already there."
In response to Reply # 3
Fri Jan-18-13 02:32 PM by Guinness

  

          

fourth in the league in rebound rate! fuck the pistons for not playing him more.

  

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Kungset
Member since Mar 29th 2004
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Fri Jan-18-13 12:30 PM

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4. "well, the best rebounder in the league is injured right now"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

but i'm a big fan of Andre Drummond, & Reggie Evans should be on anyone's list. another name to look out for is Pekovic. real inconsistent on the boards but he's a beast

  

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RandomFact
Member since Dec 10th 2005
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Fri Jan-18-13 12:34 PM

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5. "I love me some Noah but he gets bodied by bigger bodies"
In response to Reply # 0
Fri Jan-18-13 12:37 PM by RandomFact

  

          

I remember Bogut giving Jo the business for years. And he's rarely had success against Dwight.

That's why I'm not sure he's an *elite* rebounder.

Though he *is* the most versatile, well rounded center in the game.

  

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ConcreteCharlie
Member since Nov 21st 2002
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Fri Jan-18-13 12:40 PM

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6. "eh i dunno man there are two kinds of rebounders"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

the smooth and seamless guys (think duncan) and the hardcore balls out energy guys (like a farried type). you find players with a bit of both, too (rodman).

right now i dont think there are very many smooth and seamless types.

also the top 20 isnt the best barometer with guys like love and varejao being injured and not qualifying

And you will know MY JACKET IS GOLD when I lay my vengeance upon thee.

  

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celery77
Member since Aug 04th 2005
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Fri Jan-18-13 01:03 PM

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10. "but do you think Love + Varejao could really hang with Oak + Double D?"
In response to Reply # 6


  

          

Love is an amazing positional rebounder who does all his work with the lower part of his body, earning position and holding it so he's there to get the board. I do think he's a great rebounder (but kinda ass at everything else an interior player is supposed to do, hence my faux-franchise PF stance w/ him).

now Varejao I would *love* to see play against the more physical era of the past because he's got that South American guile element to his game where he'll do anything he can to earn an advantage, almost Divac-esque in that regard (and I think we can all remember Divac being one of Shaq's most difficult matchups because he would find ways to use Shaq's strength against him). I would guess Sideshow Andy would have a loooot more enemies than friends in the league and that's the mark of a real opponent.

yeah, I'm sad Sideshow Andy is hurt, I thought he was going to be a real player to watch this year.

and Love is nice on the boards but fuck the rest of his game.

___________

HOPE!
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ConcreteCharlie
Member since Nov 21st 2002
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Fri Jan-18-13 04:32 PM

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37. "those guys could hang just fine IMO"
In response to Reply # 10


  

          

varejao has a non-stop motor, good leaping, very long arms and he goes for the ball.

love is kind of the opposite, he plays it smart, uses a formidable lower body and has very good hands.

i dont see these guys not being good rebounders in other eras and in some--with higher pace and shot attempts--they would have better numbers.

i am not saying these guys are rodman or anything, but no, i dont think like oakley and dale davis would make them shit their pants. well, maybe for other reasons, oakley was a pretty bad dude and dale davis looked like a fucking serial rapist.

And you will know MY JACKET IS GOLD when I lay my vengeance upon thee.

  

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ErnestLee
Member since Mar 03rd 2003
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Fri Jan-18-13 12:53 PM

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7. "Sideshow?"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

---------------------------------------------------------

  

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TheRealBillyOcean
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Fri Jan-18-13 12:58 PM

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8. "So Demarcus isn't an Elite Rebounder because the Kings..."
In response to Reply # 0


          

aren't good?

Got it.

<---https://www.amazon.com/dp/B01DL9AVTQ

  

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celery77
Member since Aug 04th 2005
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Fri Jan-18-13 01:06 PM

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11. "Boogie is an elite athlete. that's the only '+' I'll say about his game."
In response to Reply # 8


  

          

aside from that ---> *scoreboard*

___________

HOPE!
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https://vine.co/v/i7JtqEFwxDu

  

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TheRealBillyOcean
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Fri Jan-18-13 01:14 PM

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12. "He's a top notch basketball player that's a work in progress."
In response to Reply # 11


          

You can't really question his basketball skill or talent. All he has to work on is his emotions in the game and shot selection.

That being said, he's one of the best rebounders in basketball. And one of the best big men in basketball as is.

<---https://www.amazon.com/dp/B01DL9AVTQ

  

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celery77
Member since Aug 04th 2005
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Fri Jan-18-13 01:19 PM

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16. "I'll give him a 2nd look when he exits Sacto, till then --> *scoreboard*"
In response to Reply # 12
Fri Jan-18-13 01:19 PM by celery77

  

          

n/m

___________

HOPE!
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Marauder21
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Fri Jan-18-13 01:02 PM

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9. "Excellent list"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

------

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Twitter: @tyrcasey

  

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rob
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Fri Jan-18-13 01:15 PM

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13. "just for reference, these are the current rebound% leaders"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

Total Rebound Pct
1. Reggie Evans-BRK 23.7
2. Anderson Varejao-CLE 23.1
3. J.J. Hickson-POR 21.5
4. Andre Drummond-DET 21.2
5. Omer Asik-HOU 21.1
6. Nikola Vucevic-ORL 20.1
7. Zach Randolph-MEM 19.6
8. Tyson Chandler-NYK 19.3
9. Dwight Howard-LAL 19.2
10. DeMarcus Cousins-SAC 18.9
11. Larry Sanders-MIL 18.7
12. Tim Duncan-SAS 18.6
13. Kenneth Faried-DEN 18.6
14. Carlos Boozer-CHI 18.1
15. Jared Sullinger-BOS 17.8
16. Al Jefferson-UTA 17.3
17. Zaza Pachulia-ATL 17.2
18. Andray Blatche-BRK 17.2
19. Tristan Thompson-CLE 17.1
20. Lamar Odom-LAC 17.0

Defensive Rebound Pct
1. Reggie Evans-BRK 32.7
2. Anderson Varejao-CLE 30.3
3. Omer Asik-HOU 30.1
4. J.J. Hickson-POR 28.7
5. Tim Duncan-SAS 28.6
6. Al Jefferson-UTA 27.8
7. Nikola Vucevic-ORL 27.5
8. Carlos Boozer-CHI 27.2
9. Dwight Howard-LAL 26.6
10. Larry Sanders-MIL 26.4
11. Lamar Odom-LAC 26.2
12. Andre Drummond-DET 25.7
13. DeMarcus Cousins-SAC 25.7
14. Zach Randolph-MEM 25.0
15. Al-Farouq Aminu-NOH 24.9
16. Marcin Gortat-PHO 24.6
17. Kevin Garnett-BOS 24.5
18. Emeka Okafor-WAS 24.2
19. Tyson Chandler-NYK 24.0
20. Ed Davis-TOR 23.2

Offensive Rebound Pct
1. Anderson Varejao-CLE 16.6
2. Andre Drummond-DET 16.6
3. Roy Hibbert-IND 15.2
4. Tyson Chandler-NYK 15.1
5. Reggie Evans-BRK 14.9
6. J.J. Hickson-POR 14.9
7. Kenneth Faried-DEN 14.7
8. Andray Blatche-BRK 14.4
9. Zach Randolph-MEM 14.3
10. Tristan Thompson-CLE 13.9
11. Zaza Pachulia-ATL 13.3
12. DeAndre Jordan-LAC 13.2
13. Nikola Pekovic-MIN 13.1
14. Jared Sullinger-BOS 12.7
15. Derrick Favors-UTA 12.5
16. Nikola Vucevic-ORL 12.4
17. DeMarcus Cousins-SAC 12.4
18. Carl Landry-GSW 12.3
19. Brendan Haywood-CHA 12.0
20. Amir Johnson-TOR 12.0


some years these are pretty interesting splits but this year i don't see anything huge pop out. it is pretty clear looking at it who the best 5-10 rebounders in the nba are to me.

  

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celery77
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Fri Jan-18-13 01:18 PM

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14. "damn Sideshow Andy is dominating every list, I wish he was healthy..."
In response to Reply # 13


  

          

___________

HOPE!
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https://vine.co/v/i7JtqEFwxDu

  

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celery77
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Fri Jan-18-13 01:19 PM

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15. "+ the shame w/ Reggie Evans is he sucks @ EVERYTHING except rebs"
In response to Reply # 13


  

          

like I think I might have a better handle + J than him and that's saying A LOT

___________

HOPE!
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Guinness
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Fri Jan-18-13 02:32 PM

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23. "that's not true at all."
In response to Reply # 15


  

          

evans is an excellent defender, too. plus his TS% is .540, so even with his poor FT shooting, he's an efficient scorer (although obviously not a guy you ask to create). but outside of spacing, he's not HURTING a team on offense.

  

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MothershipConnection
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Fri Jan-18-13 02:34 PM

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25. "Big Handsome don't give a fuck."
In response to Reply # 23


  

          

.

  

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celery77
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Fri Jan-18-13 03:05 PM

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31. "yeah, he's physical -- I'm just talking shit mainly cuz he's so goofy"
In response to Reply # 23


  

          

he's a value bench player. it's a bit confusing why he's been on so many teams when it seems like he's helped every one he's been on. maybe one of those things where he's a tough personality for the coaches / teammates to like? I'll never understand those journey men that make everyone notice all their positives every stop they make, they're easily some of the most fascinating characters in the NBA to me...

___________

HOPE!
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https://vine.co/v/i7JtqEFwxDu

  

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celery77
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Fri Jan-18-13 01:24 PM

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17. "+ how the fuck is JJ Hickson killing D12 in EVERYTHING? for shame!"
In response to Reply # 13


  

          

and I know people here don't want to hear it, but PART of that is because Lamarcus Aldridge primarily just blocks his man out so a ball hawk can suck in the board -- it's why Camby was nice alongside him, Pryzbilla, too, it's why Greg Oden would have been GREAT alongside him, it's WHY JJ Hickson is having a career year alongside him.

all credit to JJ because he is muscle + motor inside (plus an extremely quick leaper) and what he accomplishes for being so undersized is deserving of any/all plaudits he receives, but the Blazers biggest weakness at the moment is interior defense and it's why they're on the market for a true center even though Hickson is doing some damn work right now (unfortunately I don't think it's a long-term recipe for success in Portland).

___________

HOPE!
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https://vine.co/v/i7JtqEFwxDu

  

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rob
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Fri Jan-18-13 02:03 PM

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18. "his best rebounding games were with lamarcus out"
In response to Reply # 17


  

          

but you know how i feel about dude...he's never rebounded well and i think it's silly that you'd resort to defending a system that makes one guy slightly better than he was before and the other guy way below where he could be.

i'm prepared to acknowledge that he plays well with rebounding and defensive specialists but he got his lunch handed to him in the paint when it mattered most and i can't trust him again.

  

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celery77
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Fri Jan-18-13 02:15 PM

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20. "LA's a skill PF, almost a tweener SF, but guess what? that's okay!"
In response to Reply # 18


  

          

he's not Zach Randolph. if anything he's the antithesis of Zach Randolph in every respect.

Terry Stotts has been using him extremely well and in the early season Neil Olshey seems to have a vision for the team which recognizes ball movement and highly technical players are what will be effective when you have main cogs like Aldridge + Batum + Lillard.

Aldridge + Batum are going to get bodied by Memphis every time they play. that's just inevitable. but Aldridge + Batum have proven that they can show more SKILL than quality teams on some nights and win. keep pushing in that direction and they'll be on the right side of .500 again.

(which is all I really ever defend LA on -- he's a winner. maybe not a sure-fire centerpiece on a contender (actually obviously not that) but he's good enough to win more than he loses in the NBA and that's more than many can say)

___________

HOPE!
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https://vine.co/v/i7JtqEFwxDu

  

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BSharp
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Fri Jan-18-13 02:36 PM

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26. "I'm sick of hearing criticism of..."
In response to Reply # 18


  

          

...Lamarcus Aldridge's rebounding. I watch almost every Blazers game, and he is a solid defensive rebounder and definitely an above-average offensive rebounder.

Definitely not an elite rebounder, but hey..... Yeah..... this thread.

  

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Guinness
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Fri Jan-18-13 02:41 PM

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27. "to clarify."
In response to Reply # 26


  

          

by "definitely above average offensive rebounder" you mean "significantly below average for his position," right?

average PF: 3.7 offensive rebs per 48 minutes
aldridge: 2.9 offensive rebs per 48 minutes

to be fair, his career average is 3.8. so he's average.

  

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BSharp
Charter member
9243 posts
Fri Jan-18-13 03:34 PM

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33. "Where are these statistics from..."
In response to Reply # 27


  

          

Care to cite the source?

Also... I'd like to see all of the PFs who rank ahead of him. They must be really great players who play heavy minutes because they're such terrific rebounders.

  

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celery77
Member since Aug 04th 2005
25307 posts
Fri Jan-18-13 03:36 PM

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34. "here's the link to where I swiped the #s above, prolly what he's using:"
In response to Reply # 33


  

          

http://www.basketball-reference.com/leagues/NBA_2013_leaders.html

___________

HOPE!
https://vine.co/v/i7JjIBL3Qix
https://vine.co/v/i7JtqEFwxDu

  

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BSharp
Charter member
9243 posts
Fri Jan-18-13 04:23 PM

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36. "LMA is averaging about the same Rebounds per 48 as..."
In response to Reply # 34
Fri Jan-18-13 04:24 PM by BSharp

  

          

...Kevin Garnett, who is clearly a well-below average rebounder for his position. One of the most average rebounders ever to play in the NBA, really.

http://espn.go.com/nba/statistics/player/_/stat/rebounds/sort/avg48Rebounds/count/41

He's also averaging more rebounds per 48 than Marc Gasol, who is nothing but a soft presence on defense and a guy who likes to play outside the paint.

These statistics tell the entire story. All of it.

  

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rob
Charter member
23210 posts
Fri Jan-18-13 02:45 PM

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28. "i am too, so i hope no more proactive plea cops for him"
In response to Reply # 26


  

          

team LA didn't need to drag his name into this thread when they already know it's gonna get muddied.

  

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celery77
Member since Aug 04th 2005
25307 posts
Fri Jan-18-13 03:03 PM

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30. "I was just talking about JJ Hickson, but whatevs"
In response to Reply # 28


  

          

___________

HOPE!
https://vine.co/v/i7JjIBL3Qix
https://vine.co/v/i7JtqEFwxDu

  

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Guinness
Charter member
26270 posts
Fri Jan-18-13 02:34 PM

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24. "LOL"
In response to Reply # 17


  

          

>and I know people here don't want to hear it, but PART of
>that is because Lamarcus Aldridge primarily just blocks his
>man out so a ball hawk can suck in the board -- it's why Camby
>was nice alongside him, Pryzbilla, too, it's why Greg Oden
>would have been GREAT alongside him, it's WHY JJ Hickson is
>having a career year alongside him.

  

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JAESCOTT777
Member since Feb 18th 2006
28487 posts
Fri Jan-18-13 02:10 PM

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19. "dang Dre Drummond got epic bamma potiential "
In response to Reply # 13


  

          

  

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Basaglia
Member since Nov 30th 2004
49463 posts
Fri Jan-18-13 03:59 PM

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35. "he trying hard and still look confused doing it"
In response to Reply # 19


  

          

wait until he know what he doin...22 and 14 all day.

____________________________________________________


Steph: I was just fooling about

Kyrie: I wasn't.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R8OWNspU_yE

  

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ErnestLee
Member since Mar 03rd 2003
28533 posts
Sat Jan-19-13 03:33 AM

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40. "You passed"
In response to Reply # 35


  

          

Move along.

---------------------------------------------------------

  

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FILF
Member since Jun 01st 2007
20180 posts
Fri Jan-18-13 03:02 PM

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29. "Big Handsome and it ain't even close"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

WHAT'S GOOD *****? What's REALLY good?!?!????!!! Ha HA!
http://40.media.tumblr.com/d8e2daf9f3f37244cd05436bcdf05973/tumblr_mt4qibKq4c1rgam01o1_1280.png

  

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ConcreteCharlie
Member since Nov 21st 2002
71387 posts
Fri Jan-18-13 04:32 PM

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38. "he's hungry as shit"
In response to Reply # 29


  

          

And you will know MY JACKET IS GOLD when I lay my vengeance upon thee.

  

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select_from_where
Member since Jan 03rd 2011
4342 posts
Fri Jan-18-13 03:25 PM

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32. "Love how bulls are on almost every list..."
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

  

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LAbeathustla
Member since Jan 24th 2004
33858 posts
Fri Jan-18-13 07:01 PM

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39. "Faried is the only real nigga on that list"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

------------------------------------
2019 CABG Survivor

2016 OK Survivor Champion

be about it or be without it

RIP GOATs

  

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