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select_from_where
Member since Jan 03rd 2011
4342 posts
Sat Oct-27-12 08:46 PM

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"Okc trades james harden to rockets? "
Sat Oct-27-12 08:48 PM by select_from_where

  

          

Damn didn't see that coming

https://twitter.com/WojYahooNBA/statuses/262384227788660737



The Rockets send Kevin Martin, Jeremy Lamb and future draft considerations to the Thunder for Harden, sources tell Y! Sports.

  

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Topic Outline
Subject Author Message Date ID
link? to a better source than Twitter?
Oct 27th 2012
1
Cmon
Oct 27th 2012
3
lmao @ asking for a better source than Wojo
Oct 27th 2012
6
wat?
Oct 28th 2012
92
lol
Oct 28th 2012
109
Jeremy Lamb bout to whoo ride?
Oct 27th 2012
2
http://i.imgur.com/L0acA.gif
Oct 27th 2012
4
LMAO!!! WE A LOCK FOR THE FINALS NOW!!!!!
Oct 27th 2012
5
if this is happening....maynor, martin, lamb, pjIII
Oct 27th 2012
11
hahahah
Oct 27th 2012
13
hahahaha... I love it...
Oct 27th 2012
20
Lol
Oct 27th 2012
24
lol
Oct 27th 2012
35
This doesn't make your 80 year old backcourt not suck defensively.
Oct 28th 2012
86
Theirs is 80, ours is 100.
Oct 28th 2012
93
      COME ON DAWG LEMME TALK MY SHIT
Oct 28th 2012
143
whoa
May 16th 2013
274
ouch.
May 16th 2013
275
BreakingNews tweeted it too....im fuckin floored
Oct 27th 2012
7
wow
Oct 27th 2012
8
Harden is hella overrated.....
Oct 27th 2012
9
this is great for htown if they held on to that raptor 1st rounder
Oct 27th 2012
10
oh well so muchfor that this is the trade i hear...
Oct 27th 2012
15
      shit, long as they don't need aldrich this year that would be a heist
Oct 27th 2012
17
      Pretty much.
Oct 27th 2012
19
      i hate giving up those picks
Oct 27th 2012
21
           I agree. I like the trade overall but we were saving those
Oct 27th 2012
75
                well this isn't true at all.
Oct 27th 2012
80
                     youre right
Oct 27th 2012
82
                          even then, martin had three straight 45%+ years in Sac
Oct 28th 2012
122
      Thunder won the fuck out of this trade
Oct 27th 2012
18
      So Rox give up 2 players they ain't need and 2 picks that werent theirs
Oct 27th 2012
38
           lol @ 2 picks that aren't theirs like its somehow relevant.
Oct 27th 2012
39
           Better than giving up 2 of their own 1st's, no?
Oct 27th 2012
44
                Yeah since it would be impossible.
Oct 27th 2012
47
                How is that impossible?
Oct 27th 2012
62
                     RE: How is that impossible?
Oct 27th 2012
77
                          Well, they could trade this yr's and nexr yr's picks
Oct 28th 2012
145
                               Teams can't trade their 1st rounders in consecutive seasons
Oct 28th 2012
176
                Only matters if Houston has the worse record
Oct 27th 2012
55
           it's not a bad deal for houston
Oct 27th 2012
50
                It's that Toronto 1st rounder
Oct 27th 2012
51
                i figured with lin and asik they weren't saying fuck it
Oct 27th 2012
59
                     One thing is Kevin Martin was likely to walk this summer
Oct 27th 2012
78
                aldrich will get minutes there, too, i mean they are short on bigs
Oct 27th 2012
58
                its not at all
Oct 27th 2012
76
                     right i think he is a good fit for this role
Oct 28th 2012
119
WHAT DE FUUUU
Oct 27th 2012
12
Wow, Thunder just got DEEPER.
Oct 27th 2012
14
Maybe next year, but they miss harden this year.
Oct 27th 2012
22
Thunder get both 1st round picks and a 2nd in 2013
Oct 27th 2012
16
First reaction is that Thunder done fucked up
Oct 27th 2012
23
Lol they bout to have a young dynasty in okc
Oct 27th 2012
28
I didn't know they got two 1's out of it at first
Oct 27th 2012
40
without Perk they're not getting past the Lakers
Oct 27th 2012
67
Jeremy Lin has got to be THRILLED
Oct 27th 2012
25
Wit harden they may actually win a few games.
Oct 27th 2012
31
Guess the Thunder agreed with me
Oct 27th 2012
26
HAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAH
May 16th 2013
284
Herschel Walker like trade for the Thunder
Oct 27th 2012
27
RE: Okc trades james harden to rockets?
Oct 27th 2012
29
man, I have high expectations for Lamb | Houston lookin' nice
Oct 27th 2012
30
Sam Presti is a G.
Oct 27th 2012
32
so its Lamb, Martin, two 1sts & a 2nd in the 2013 draft for James Harden
Oct 27th 2012
33
morey did the right thing tho..dump kmart and get a player for those pic...
Oct 27th 2012
34
It's actually a good deal for OKC. They didn't want to go through
Oct 27th 2012
36
Love the deal for OKC, win/win really
Oct 27th 2012
37
Who's gonna be the playmaker for their 2nd unit?
Oct 27th 2012
53
      agreed & their window is right now..
Oct 28th 2012
104
      they'll figure it out, i mean it's not going to be a situation where ...
Oct 28th 2012
146
      Jose Calderon
Oct 28th 2012
168
Woj says final offer was 4 yrs 53-53 mil
Oct 27th 2012
41
lol who is that Laker fan that said Harden would take less money to stay
Oct 27th 2012
45
ESPN says it was 55.5, only 4.5 less than the max
Oct 27th 2012
56
lmao if true, what a cornball acting all shocked
Oct 29th 2012
208
RE: Woj says final offer was 4 yrs 53-53 mil
Oct 29th 2012
216
OKC got three 1st round picks next year, they can make another deal.
Oct 27th 2012
42
Houston got 3rd best backcourt in nba
Oct 27th 2012
43
LOL
Oct 27th 2012
81
      3rd from the bottom.
Oct 28th 2012
103
           lol
Oct 28th 2012
106
I'm glad Morey finally got to trade for somebody.
Oct 27th 2012
46
Lol
Oct 27th 2012
48
hey its somethin..lowry was out, kmart wasnt shit...fk it
Oct 27th 2012
49
Not bad for $110 million.....
Oct 27th 2012
54
      lolz
Oct 27th 2012
69
great deal for the thun.
Oct 27th 2012
52
doubt it.
Oct 27th 2012
64
lakers seem to have done fine in a decade without a "playmaker"
Oct 27th 2012
68
first of all i didn't say Harden was OKC's ONLY playmaker
Oct 27th 2012
79
Rockets will have one of the worst defensive backcourts in the league
Oct 27th 2012
71
LOL!
May 16th 2013
283
LA Fans next spring: "FUCKING ROCKETS"
Oct 27th 2012
57
Sam Presti is a genius.
Oct 27th 2012
60
wow...okc got better
Oct 27th 2012
61
reply #60
Oct 27th 2012
63
TBD
Oct 27th 2012
65
both teams trade hard(c)
Oct 27th 2012
66
lol..........good one
Oct 27th 2012
72
I think OKC won
Oct 27th 2012
70
this is perry jones doing...he obviously ready to contribute
Oct 27th 2012
73
lol
Oct 27th 2012
74
that's the way i see it. then there's also the small matter...
Oct 28th 2012
84
      Harden sucked in the Finals but he helped won the Spurs and Lakers serie...
Oct 28th 2012
96
      OKC wasn't giving him a max deal regardless, so if that's what Harden...
Oct 28th 2012
112
      Harden was murder in the first 3 rounds.
Oct 28th 2012
153
LOLz
Oct 28th 2012
83
hahahahaha
Oct 28th 2012
134
and this is why Simmons hired Zack Lowe (swizzy)
Oct 28th 2012
85
*thinks about fantasy implications*
Oct 28th 2012
87
Lol gonna give you a nice Ws boost
Oct 28th 2012
91
morey got his top 20 player.
Oct 28th 2012
88
waaaaaaat?!
Oct 28th 2012
90
^^^
Oct 28th 2012
94
Exactly, Kobe is barely a top 200 player at this point!
Oct 28th 2012
97
Do you really believe Harden > Westbrook?
Oct 28th 2012
98
Easily.
Oct 28th 2012
120
      it's more a referendum on russy but harden is not "better"
Oct 28th 2012
129
           exactly. Lets see how he fares after a full season
Oct 28th 2012
152
           westbrook is pretty overrated.
Oct 28th 2012
184
RE: morey got his top 20 player.
Oct 28th 2012
114
Asik, Lin, Parsons.
Oct 28th 2012
121
      lol, like any other team actually wants those dudes
Oct 28th 2012
128
      LOL!
May 16th 2013
292
      Lol, I dot even think Morey would call that his "core"
Oct 28th 2012
144
      really?
Oct 28th 2012
171
      not much of a core, i am an asik fan but you've got him hyped up
Oct 28th 2012
157
So Kobe & Wade Don't Exist?
Oct 28th 2012
118
Iono man when I hear "Top 20" and "Big 3" I say "Slow down"
Oct 28th 2012
126
      Nah.
Oct 28th 2012
133
           RE: Nah.
Oct 28th 2012
142
           watch the games
Oct 28th 2012
154
                base, i mean he is nice, i am not trying to hate but to put him on ...
Oct 28th 2012
159
                THANKS BRO
Oct 29th 2012
196
                Then recognize the impact of his teammates on that "efficiency rating"
Oct 29th 2012
210
                     lol. the gap is so big, tho
Oct 29th 2012
212
                          nah, I wasn't even arguing Gordon/Harden
Oct 29th 2012
243
                               What is a max contract guy these days?
Oct 29th 2012
245
                               HEY BOZO!
May 16th 2013
285
                Wow. I gotta take that L.
Apr 24th 2017
297
                     respect
Apr 24th 2017
299
Inner workings of the deal article by Woj
Oct 28th 2012
89
so Harden basically walked over $6mil? He wants to be the man
Oct 28th 2012
116
      which is weird, because he expressly DIDN'T want to be the man
Oct 28th 2012
169
      4/52 or 5/80?
Oct 29th 2012
211
      Nah he doesn't... but he wants to be paid like The Man
Oct 30th 2012
263
Players react to the trade via twitter
Oct 28th 2012
95
LOL Malik Allen is not a fan of the deal for OKC huh?
Oct 28th 2012
99
OKC Fan(s) a good film session w/+ outlook on what youre getting
Oct 28th 2012
100
smh okc shoulda ate that luxury tax.
Oct 28th 2012
101
They don't make enough revenue to eat that tax
Oct 28th 2012
105
If i understand correctly their revenue was 30-35 mil?
Oct 28th 2012
115
Oh course they do.
Oct 28th 2012
136
they made 30 million last year ffs
Oct 28th 2012
140
why when they have more or less stayed pat and added for less $?
Oct 28th 2012
158
Obviously.
Oct 28th 2012
123
      lol
Oct 28th 2012
139
not feeling it.
Oct 28th 2012
102
Mchaleis the biggest question mark to me
Oct 28th 2012
108
I agree with you
Oct 28th 2012
110
you could have probably had perkins for a similar package
Oct 28th 2012
130
      the hell would we sign him to 60M for thats even dumber nm
Oct 28th 2012
132
      he already has a bloated contract, my point was that asset for asset
Oct 28th 2012
147
      Dude, what?
Oct 28th 2012
135
           the words 'should' and 'serious' found no place in my post
Oct 28th 2012
148
almost exactly how perkins ended up in OKC
Oct 28th 2012
107
thoughts
Oct 28th 2012
111
exactly....your window in NOW... who knows what things will look
Oct 28th 2012
125
      They probably didn't want this lingering throughout the season, Harden's...
Oct 28th 2012
131
      it doesn't change THAT fast when you have franchise cornerstones
Oct 28th 2012
149
      This isn't baseball or football, shit doesn't change that fast
Oct 28th 2012
155
           Celtics, Lakers, Heat, now the Lakers again...
Oct 28th 2012
173
OKC is gonna be ballin....Finals rematch
Oct 28th 2012
113
what's the protection on the picks?
Oct 28th 2012
117
toronto is 1-3, and 14-30 protected. dunno about dallas' pick
Oct 28th 2012
124
      wtf? 14-30? i've never even heard of that
Oct 28th 2012
127
           first time it was done
Oct 28th 2012
141
Where are the fucking idiots who said Harden wouldn't get a max deal?
Oct 28th 2012
137
For a moment there, I was one of these fucking idiots.
Oct 28th 2012
187
Harden could breakout like Agent Zero
Oct 28th 2012
138
rockets are praying, he will certainly get the FGAs
Oct 28th 2012
160
Or he can breakDOWN like agent zero
Oct 28th 2012
172
Hardens introduction at previously scheuled open practice today
Oct 28th 2012
150
Harden says he'll sign before season starts if possible
Oct 28th 2012
151
he sounds a lil salty like he didn't see it coming. i wonder if the thun...
Oct 28th 2012
156
      obviously they were, deals come together over days if not weeks
Oct 28th 2012
161
      so why even have the meeting? it was obvious what harden wanted
Oct 28th 2012
162
           they were prolly hoping he had a change of heart
Oct 28th 2012
163
           Harden basically walked over $6mil, it ain't about the money, he's tired...
Oct 28th 2012
165
                he dont wanna be no damn #1 player
Oct 28th 2012
167
                     RE: he dont wanna be no damn #1 player
Oct 28th 2012
170
                     The max was 60, OKC's last offer was 54, he left a contender to go to...
Oct 28th 2012
175
                          RE: The max was 60, OKC's last offer was 54, he left a contender to go t...
Oct 28th 2012
177
                          Like Bomani jones was saying
Oct 28th 2012
178
                               RE: Like Bomani jones was saying
Oct 28th 2012
179
                          6M is change your life money, dude.
Oct 28th 2012
180
                               to me and you yeah but not when you're talking the difference between...
Oct 28th 2012
181
                                    FOH
Oct 28th 2012
182
                                         Harden made a business decision, OKC made a business decision...
Oct 28th 2012
183
                                         not comparable
Oct 28th 2012
185
                                              OKC couldnt afford to give out all those max deals, they still have to.....
Oct 28th 2012
189
                                         market value? how much did lou williams get this offseason?
Oct 28th 2012
186
                                              lol wut
Oct 28th 2012
188
                                                   top 5 in what categories? all i see is true shooting %
Oct 28th 2012
191
                                                        huh?
Oct 29th 2012
195
                                                             wat
Oct 29th 2012
197
                                                                  what numbers do you even want?
Oct 29th 2012
200
                                                                  am I wrong for thinking Kev Martin was an advanced metric darling, too?
Oct 29th 2012
231
                                                                  say what?
Oct 29th 2012
249
                                                                  oh Harden's efficiency numbers are to be taken with a grain of salt
Oct 29th 2012
241
                                                                  BOZO
May 16th 2013
286
                     90% of the dudes in the NBA want to be a #1 player and in their mind...
Oct 28th 2012
174
      interesting to me is how open Presti seems to a conference foe reupping ...
Oct 28th 2012
164
      Houston is not going to be a threat to OKC anytime soon, lol
Oct 28th 2012
166
           disagree.
Oct 28th 2012
190
                lol, with Harden maxed out and the other contracts they have they'll...
Oct 28th 2012
192
                     not getting out the 1st round for another 2-3 seasons
Oct 28th 2012
193
                     seriously, stop talking about stuff you don't know.
Oct 29th 2012
194
                          Yeah, free agents will be lining up to join that "core"
Oct 29th 2012
198
                          the "core" as you put it will take up damn near 80% of the cap in 14/15
Oct 29th 2012
199
                          that's two years away.
Oct 29th 2012
201
                               " shitball free agents on 1 or 2 yr deals"
Oct 29th 2012
203
                                    if you sign the superstar, you trade Asik/Lin/whomever
Oct 29th 2012
213
                                         nobody's going to trade for those poison pill contracts
Oct 29th 2012
215
                                         lol, bullshit.
Oct 29th 2012
235
                                         Asik/Lin are part of the long term "core" according to him though
Oct 29th 2012
234
                          i think lin and asik's cap hits will both be 8.3 mil each year
Oct 29th 2012
233
                               Yes this is true..often a misconception
Oct 29th 2012
248
      RE: he sounds a lil salty like he didn't see it coming. i wonder if the ...
Oct 29th 2012
202
           That nigga kyrie will not average 10 assists
Oct 29th 2012
204
I just hate this idea that business is paramount to winning
Oct 29th 2012
205
Part of the reason they DIDN'T win was because Harden played like...
Oct 29th 2012
206
you do realize Harden is 23 right?
Oct 29th 2012
244
its so disappointing.
Oct 29th 2012
207
that critique applies to OKC, not Harden
Oct 29th 2012
209
      OKC is not the favorite anymore.
Oct 29th 2012
229
           they weren't the favorite with Harden
Oct 29th 2012
242
                for the west?
Oct 29th 2012
252
                     as soon as Dwight landed it's been either his back, Mike Brown
Oct 29th 2012
253
                          BOW DOWN TO THE NUGS
Oct 31st 2012
269
it's gonna be fun watching Harden get exposed in Houston
Oct 29th 2012
214
Always look forward to your smart/dumb analysis
Oct 29th 2012
218
      Damn that was harsh
Oct 29th 2012
219
      lololol damn.
Oct 29th 2012
220
      I miss my boo in Survivor
Oct 29th 2012
222
           i voted him in my division. he got scared, quit.
Oct 29th 2012
223
           Lol but its not like he did well in his old division
Oct 29th 2012
224
           didn't have time/interest to warrant my spot, y'all shouldn't miss me
Oct 29th 2012
227
      Harden sucks, I still refuse to cave on that (possible) L
Oct 29th 2012
225
      not cool
Oct 29th 2012
257
      wowzers
Oct 30th 2012
265
is it possible that harden had a bad series against a great defensive te...
Oct 29th 2012
217
he did what he did against bench units that literally weren't practicing
Oct 29th 2012
230
lol was he the only player playing against bench units that werent
Oct 29th 2012
232
so he showed you enough against weak comp to warrant franchise status?
Oct 29th 2012
246
lol wut
Oct 29th 2012
247
      I also watched Erick Dampier's entire contract year, color me skeptical
Oct 29th 2012
250
      + I don't think OKC will struggle to replace Harden's production n/m
Oct 29th 2012
251
           well, they will.
Oct 30th 2012
259
                they also had a spacing problem that Kevin Martin directly addresses
Oct 30th 2012
260
                     ::sees Celery posting from Damn Good Ground, with the Double-Tap crit::
Oct 30th 2012
261
damn Harden played 80 games last season? now wonder he want max
Oct 29th 2012
236
      my dick is a flood zone
Oct 29th 2012
237
           been waiting to use that all day?
Oct 29th 2012
239
                you been on my dick in other posts too or something?
Oct 29th 2012
240
RE: Okc trades james harden to rockets?
Oct 29th 2012
221
James harden live press conference coming up on nbatv
Oct 29th 2012
226
Quite possibly the best nba.com top 10 ever!
Oct 29th 2012
228
TheTruth might be right according to Woj (swipe)
Oct 29th 2012
238
When he got drafted, he told Presti he didn't have to be the man
Oct 30th 2012
264
LOL Jeremy Lin, LOL
Oct 29th 2012
254
lol
Oct 29th 2012
255
Dude Finds a Way to Commit a Turnover
Oct 29th 2012
256
Report back from James' Harden first practice (truth's theory)
Oct 30th 2012
258
i feel like the abused wife watching the husband come up the street
Oct 30th 2012
262
      wtf are you talking about?
Oct 31st 2012
270
           ^^^ THIS GUY SMART!
May 16th 2013
287
Its official. he got the Max 5yrs 80 mil
Oct 31st 2012
266
yea this changes it a bit.....
Oct 31st 2012
267
THIS.
Oct 31st 2012
271
Which was the point all along...
Oct 31st 2012
268
JAMES POCKETS STRAIGHT
Oct 31st 2012
272
TIME TO PAY THE PIPER
May 16th 2013
273
Nope!
May 16th 2013
276
lol. They should have traded Ibaka
May 16th 2013
277
I think it would have been Harden or Westbrook
May 16th 2013
279
      he'd still be the best 3rd option in the nba
May 16th 2013
281
      they couldn't have fared much worse.
May 16th 2013
288
           I can't really fault him for that.
May 16th 2013
289
                maybe he shouldn't have moved to a small market.
May 16th 2013
290
                so he put $ over having the best team. Their team is much
May 16th 2013
291
                     That's the norm in the NBA.
May 16th 2013
293
lol
May 16th 2013
280
LOOOOOOOOOOOOL
May 16th 2013
282
LOLOLOLOLLLOL
May 16th 2013
278
Safe to say Presti fucked the dog on this? On one hand he drafted...
Apr 23rd 2017
294
Did Presti mess up?
Apr 23rd 2017
Did Presti mess up?
Apr 23rd 2017
295
The style of play they had made it impossible for those
Apr 24th 2017
296
      seems like they coexisted fine to me when they made the finals.
Apr 24th 2017
298
           10 shots a night for Harden was not sustainable
Apr 24th 2017
300

BigJazz
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24443 posts
Sat Oct-27-12 08:47 PM

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1. "link? to a better source than Twitter?"
In response to Reply # 0
Sat Oct-27-12 08:48 PM by BigJazz

  

          

***
I'm tryna be better off, not better than...

  

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Cenario
Member since Aug 24th 2005
57485 posts
Sat Oct-27-12 08:49 PM

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3. "Cmon"
In response to Reply # 1


  

          

-The Knicks’ coaching search still includes a lone frontrunner, Kurt Rambis, whose qualifications for the position include a strong relationship with Jackson and a willingness to take the job.

  

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daskap
Member since Oct 17th 2003
6960 posts
Sat Oct-27-12 09:00 PM

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6. "lmao @ asking for a better source than Wojo"
In response to Reply # 1


          

  

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FireBrand
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145739 posts
Sun Oct-28-12 05:43 AM

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92. "wat?"
In response to Reply # 1


  

          

"Slaves got options...cowards aint got shit." --PS
"Once upon a time, little need existed for making the distinction between a nigga and a black—at least not in this country, the place where niggas were invented" -- Donnell A

  

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Ownzdacourt
Member since Mar 14th 2004
4131 posts
Sun Oct-28-12 09:11 AM

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109. "lol"
In response to Reply # 1


  

          

nm

Spurs NBA Champs 1999, 2003, 2005, 2007, 2014

  

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MothershipConnection
Member since Nov 22nd 2003
7498 posts
Sat Oct-27-12 08:49 PM

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2. "Jeremy Lamb bout to whoo ride?"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

Seriously this takes me totally be surprise... I thought they were really close to coming to an extension.

  

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Starks dunked on Bulls
Member since Dec 07th 2011
12028 posts
Sat Oct-27-12 08:51 PM

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4. "http://i.imgur.com/L0acA.gif"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

http://i.imgur.com/L0acA.gif

  

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LBs Finest
Member since Sep 28th 2005
19844 posts
Sat Oct-27-12 08:57 PM

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5. "LMAO!!! WE A LOCK FOR THE FINALS NOW!!!!!"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!

_________________________

  

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rob
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23209 posts
Sat Oct-27-12 09:04 PM

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11. "if this is happening....maynor, martin, lamb, pjIII"
In response to Reply # 5


  

          

i think they can make that work

depending on the pick it could be good to great for both.

  

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El_essence
Charter member
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13. "hahahah"
In response to Reply # 5


  

          

.

  

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LegacyNS
Member since Jan 16th 2004
37984 posts
Sat Oct-27-12 09:08 PM

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20. "hahahaha... I love it..."
In response to Reply # 5


  

          


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
<---- 5....
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dlgiritpmfo

=======================================
Occupy Big Government..

Fannie, Freddie dole out big bonuses
http://www.politico.com/news/stories/1011/67292.html

  

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Cenario
Member since Aug 24th 2005
57485 posts
Sat Oct-27-12 09:09 PM

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24. "Lol"
In response to Reply # 5


  

          

-The Knicks’ coaching search still includes a lone frontrunner, Kurt Rambis, whose qualifications for the position include a strong relationship with Jackson and a willingness to take the job.

  

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ZooTown74
Member since May 29th 2002
43582 posts
Sat Oct-27-12 09:16 PM

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35. "lol"
In response to Reply # 5


  

          

__________________________________________________________________________
WORLD STAR IN THIS BITCH!!!! WORLD STAR IN THIS BITCH!!!!

  

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RaFromQueens
Member since Apr 18th 2006
19528 posts
Sun Oct-28-12 03:10 AM

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86. "This doesn't make your 80 year old backcourt not suck defensively."
In response to Reply # 5


  

          

Russy gonna rape Kobe and Nash.


















I hope

---
"People that need positivity around them all the time are weak individuals in my book" - @lilduval

  

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FireBrand
Charter member
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93. "Theirs is 80, ours is 100."
In response to Reply # 86


  

          

"Slaves got options...cowards aint got shit." --PS
"Once upon a time, little need existed for making the distinction between a nigga and a black—at least not in this country, the place where niggas were invented" -- Donnell A

  

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RaFromQueens
Member since Apr 18th 2006
19528 posts
Sun Oct-28-12 11:45 AM

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143. "COME ON DAWG LEMME TALK MY SHIT"
In response to Reply # 93


  

          

DAMN

---
"People that need positivity around them all the time are weak individuals in my book" - @lilduval

  

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CherNic
Member since Aug 18th 2005
37156 posts
Thu May-16-13 08:04 AM

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274. "whoa"
In response to Reply # 5


  

          

  

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JohnnyKilroy
Member since May 02nd 2012
930 posts
Thu May-16-13 10:30 AM

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275. "ouch."
In response to Reply # 5


          

IG: hibelk

  

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CherNic
Member since Aug 18th 2005
37156 posts
Sat Oct-27-12 09:02 PM

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7. "BreakingNews tweeted it too....im fuckin floored"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

  

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JBoogs
Charter member
31222 posts
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8. "wow"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

http://sports.yahoo.com/news/nba--thunder-trade-james-harden-to-rockets-27481909.html

***************
I've traveled far and wide through many different times...

  

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blueeclipse
Member since Apr 12th 2009
1633 posts
Sat Oct-27-12 09:03 PM

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9. "Harden is hella overrated....."
In response to Reply # 0
Sat Oct-27-12 09:05 PM by blueeclipse

  

          

I think this came down to OKC not wanting to MAX him out and I don't blame them. They still gotta build a squad around their two best players. It's different if you have LeBron, Bosh and Wade. Harden isn't better than any of those guys. So you can't build a team like that in OKC.

They get a very decent shooter in Kevin Martin, and bench guy in Lamb and I'm sure they got some nice picks outta this since Houston has a ton to give.

People will bitch about how the frontcourt guys were expendible, but you can replace Harden alot easier than Ibaka. Plus they have Perry Jones chillin too.

Harden gets to go to Houston and show if he's worth a MAX deal. We shall see.

Dream with your eyes open.....

  

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LAbeathustla
Member since Jan 24th 2004
33793 posts
Sat Oct-27-12 09:03 PM

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10. "this is great for htown if they held on to that raptor 1st rounder"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

------------------------------------
2019 CABG Survivor

2016 OK Survivor Champion

be about it or be without it

RIP GOATs

  

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LAbeathustla
Member since Jan 24th 2004
33793 posts
Sat Oct-27-12 09:06 PM

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15. "oh well so muchfor that this is the trade i hear..."
In response to Reply # 10


  

          


Rockets Receive:
Harden, Hawyard, Cook, and Aldrich

Thunder Receive:
Martin, Lamb, Toronto 1st Rounder, Dallas 1st Rounder, and Charlotte 2nd Rounder

------------------------------------
2019 CABG Survivor

2016 OK Survivor Champion

be about it or be without it

RIP GOATs

  

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rob
Charter member
23209 posts
Sat Oct-27-12 09:07 PM

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17. "shit, long as they don't need aldrich this year that would be a heist"
In response to Reply # 15


  

          

  

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Cenario
Member since Aug 24th 2005
57485 posts
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19. "Pretty much."
In response to Reply # 17


  

          

-The Knicks’ coaching search still includes a lone frontrunner, Kurt Rambis, whose qualifications for the position include a strong relationship with Jackson and a willingness to take the job.

  

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LAbeathustla
Member since Jan 24th 2004
33793 posts
Sat Oct-27-12 09:08 PM

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21. "i hate giving up those picks"
In response to Reply # 17


  

          

------------------------------------
2019 CABG Survivor

2016 OK Survivor Champion

be about it or be without it

RIP GOATs

  

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ShawndmeSlanted
Member since Oct 30th 2004
42971 posts
Sat Oct-27-12 11:01 PM

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75. "I agree. I like the trade overall but we were saving those "
In response to Reply # 21


  

          

picks for a superstar. Harden is good but hes not that superstar I was hoping for.

Folks laugh at Kevin Martin but hes a more efficient scorer than Harden. When that dude is on he can put the rock in the hole--especially with his ability to get to the line. He was looking like he was getting back into form this offseason.

I love getting Aldrich back. Hes gonna be able to back up our C spot right away while Greg Smith and Dmo develop.

Wish we coulda given up Royce White or Ppat instead of Jeremy Lamb

---
"though time has passed, im still the future" (c) black thought

  

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LBs Finest
Member since Sep 28th 2005
19844 posts
Sat Oct-27-12 11:36 PM

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80. "well this isn't true at all."
In response to Reply # 75


  

          

>Folks laugh at Kevin Martin but hes a more efficient scorer
>than Harden.

Harden was more efficient last year than Martin has ever been.

_________________________

  

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ShawndmeSlanted
Member since Oct 30th 2004
42971 posts
Sat Oct-27-12 11:47 PM

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82. "youre right"
In response to Reply # 80


  

          

if youre talking %ages. I used a poor word to describe it so I get where your coming from. Martin can give a team 20 ppg without having the ball in his hands as much as harden. He can play off the ball a lot more and yet still has the ability to get to the line. 2 years ago who lead the league in FT makes. A lot of time he gets the benefit of the doubt anytime he drives teh ball cause he looks so weak.

He's not gonna bring the playmaking Harden had at all but he can come in and start and be on the court with Russell and Durant more, or still provide a scoring punch off the bench. This also gives them the opportunity to let Westbrook grow as a playmaker. I know people shit on him as a decision and playmaker, but I think he takes another step this year in that regard.

---
"though time has passed, im still the future" (c) black thought

  

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ConcreteCharlie
Member since Nov 21st 2002
71344 posts
Sun Oct-28-12 10:20 AM

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122. "even then, martin had three straight 45%+ years in Sac"
In response to Reply # 82


  

          

That team is so weird, they go from a guy being their main player to his basically losing his job to injury and dying a slow death. Then they trade wing for big trying to cash in on a surplus, turn around and trade that big for another wing.

And you will know MY JACKET IS GOLD when I lay my vengeance upon thee.

  

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blueeclipse
Member since Apr 12th 2009
1633 posts
Sat Oct-27-12 09:07 PM

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18. "Thunder won the fuck out of this trade"
In response to Reply # 15


  

          

WOW.

Dream with your eyes open.....

  

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icecold21
Member since Jan 18th 2008
8433 posts
Sat Oct-27-12 09:16 PM

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38. "So Rox give up 2 players they ain't need and 2 picks that werent theirs"
In response to Reply # 15


  

          

originally...don't see how Houston loses there. 2 firsts is a good look for OKC, not mad at them for that

_________________________________________

  

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Cenario
Member since Aug 24th 2005
57485 posts
Sat Oct-27-12 09:19 PM

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39. "lol @ 2 picks that aren't theirs like its somehow relevant."
In response to Reply # 38


  

          

-The Knicks’ coaching search still includes a lone frontrunner, Kurt Rambis, whose qualifications for the position include a strong relationship with Jackson and a willingness to take the job.

  

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icecold21
Member since Jan 18th 2008
8433 posts
Sat Oct-27-12 09:23 PM

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44. "Better than giving up 2 of their own 1st's, no?"
In response to Reply # 39


  

          

_________________________________________

  

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Cenario
Member since Aug 24th 2005
57485 posts
Sat Oct-27-12 09:27 PM

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47. "Yeah since it would be impossible."
In response to Reply # 44


  

          

-The Knicks’ coaching search still includes a lone frontrunner, Kurt Rambis, whose qualifications for the position include a strong relationship with Jackson and a willingness to take the job.

  

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icecold21
Member since Jan 18th 2008
8433 posts
Sat Oct-27-12 09:42 PM

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62. "How is that impossible?"
In response to Reply # 47


  

          

_________________________________________

  

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Cenario
Member since Aug 24th 2005
57485 posts
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77. "RE: How is that impossible?"
In response to Reply # 62


  

          

44. "Better than giving up 2 of their own 1st's, no?"

How does a team get "2 of their own 1st rounders"?

-The Knicks’ coaching search still includes a lone frontrunner, Kurt Rambis, whose qualifications for the position include a strong relationship with Jackson and a willingness to take the job.

  

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icecold21
Member since Jan 18th 2008
8433 posts
Sun Oct-28-12 01:37 PM

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145. "Well, they could trade this yr's and nexr yr's picks"
In response to Reply # 77


  

          

Then OKC would have 2 first round picks that originally belonged to the Rockets, one in 2013 and one in 2014. Instead Houston keeps those, as they traded 2 firsts they got from other teams. They had extra picks to trade and so they still have a first in this year's draft (their own) and next year's (their own).

_________________________________________

  

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Cenario
Member since Aug 24th 2005
57485 posts
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176. "Teams can't trade their 1st rounders in consecutive seasons"
In response to Reply # 145


  

          

-The Knicks’ coaching search still includes a lone frontrunner, Kurt Rambis, whose qualifications for the position include a strong relationship with Jackson and a willingness to take the job.

  

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Tek4mula
Member since Nov 11th 2008
1451 posts
Sat Oct-27-12 09:34 PM

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55. "Only matters if Houston has the worse record"
In response to Reply # 44


  

          

If their pick ends up being better than the two they traded away than that's slightly good.

  

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rob
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Sat Oct-27-12 09:29 PM

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50. "it's not a bad deal for houston"
In response to Reply # 38
Sat Oct-27-12 09:30 PM by rob

  

          

let's say everything goes right with their squad and they end the year with lin, harden, ross, dm, asik or maybe patterson/royce in there at forward.

that's a lot of potential for upside. only problem is it's all rolling the dice.

but that's better than sitting on kevin martin and draft picks.

  

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Cenario
Member since Aug 24th 2005
57485 posts
Sat Oct-27-12 09:31 PM

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51. "It's that Toronto 1st rounder"
In response to Reply # 50


  

          

-The Knicks’ coaching search still includes a lone frontrunner, Kurt Rambis, whose qualifications for the position include a strong relationship with Jackson and a willingness to take the job.

  

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rob
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Sat Oct-27-12 09:39 PM

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59. "i figured with lin and asik they weren't saying fuck it"
In response to Reply # 51


  

          

i mean...i still think their gm is an idiot, but at least now there's a semblance of a game plan.

  

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ShawndmeSlanted
Member since Oct 30th 2004
42971 posts
Sat Oct-27-12 11:14 PM

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78. "One thing is Kevin Martin was likely to walk this summer "
In response to Reply # 59


  

          

anyways. In that sense its making something outta nothing.

But you never know. he looked to be playing with some urgency this summer and preseason and was actually looking really sharp. im fine giving up lamb. Like LABEAT said, he can be good, but right now he inst ready. Itll be awhile.

Rockets can still add 1 more guy

Per Feigen

Jonathan Feigen @Jonathan_Feigen

Hearing a lot about Lin, Asik contracts. Keep in mind, Rockets still have room for another max FA next summer, even after Harden gets max.

---
"though time has passed, im still the future" (c) black thought

  

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ConcreteCharlie
Member since Nov 21st 2002
71344 posts
Sat Oct-27-12 09:38 PM

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58. "aldrich will get minutes there, too, i mean they are short on bigs"
In response to Reply # 50


  

          

nm

And you will know MY JACKET IS GOLD when I lay my vengeance upon thee.

  

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ShawndmeSlanted
Member since Oct 30th 2004
42971 posts
Sat Oct-27-12 11:03 PM

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76. "its not at all"
In response to Reply # 50


  

          

>let's say everything goes right with their squad and they end
>the year with lin, harden, ross, dm, asik or maybe
>patterson/royce in there at forward.
>
>that's a lot of potential for upside. only problem is it's all
>rolling the dice.
>
>but that's better than sitting on kevin martin and draft
>picks.

I think Kevin martin is being underrated overall by the public though. Harden is definitely better all around--but not a better scorer.

---
"though time has passed, im still the future" (c) black thought

  

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ConcreteCharlie
Member since Nov 21st 2002
71344 posts
Sun Oct-28-12 10:13 AM

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119. "right i think he is a good fit for this role"
In response to Reply # 76


  

          

win win deal here because it addressed needs and diversified holdings for OKC. meanwhile houston managed to get a big name by pooling some stuff that individually was not a high value but collectively was attractive.

And you will know MY JACKET IS GOLD when I lay my vengeance upon thee.

  

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Nodima
Member since Jul 30th 2008
14591 posts
Sat Oct-27-12 09:04 PM

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12. "WHAT DE FUUUU"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

that's a wild, weird, unexpected trade.

Dork Elvis making moves was a given this year, but THIS move? If Harden re-signs there...good on him.


~~~~~~~~~
"This is the streets, and I am the trap." © Jay Bilas
"I don't read pages of rap lyrics, I listen to rap music." © Bombastic
http://www.popmatters.com/pm/archive/contributor/517
Hip Hop Handbook: http://tinyurl.com/ll4kzz

  

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Castro
Charter member
49977 posts
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14. "Wow, Thunder just got DEEPER. "
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

------------------
One Hundred.

  

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Cenario
Member since Aug 24th 2005
57485 posts
Sat Oct-27-12 09:08 PM

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22. "Maybe next year, but they miss harden this year."
In response to Reply # 14


  

          

Martin stay hurt

-The Knicks’ coaching search still includes a lone frontrunner, Kurt Rambis, whose qualifications for the position include a strong relationship with Jackson and a willingness to take the job.

  

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LBs Finest
Member since Sep 28th 2005
19844 posts
Sat Oct-27-12 09:07 PM

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16. "Thunder get both 1st round picks and a 2nd in 2013"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

_________________________

  

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icecold21
Member since Jan 18th 2008
8433 posts
Sat Oct-27-12 09:08 PM

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23. "First reaction is that Thunder done fucked up"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

Could they not have amnestied Perk and spent the money on Harden? Or they could have traded him to Charlotte for the #2 pick, and I assume future picks/etc?

Either way, I have a hard time believing that was the best deal they could get. I at least have to see what these "significant future draft picks" are that Woj is talking about.

_________________________________________

  

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Cenario
Member since Aug 24th 2005
57485 posts
Sat Oct-27-12 09:10 PM

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28. "Lol they bout to have a young dynasty in okc"
In response to Reply # 23


  

          

-The Knicks’ coaching search still includes a lone frontrunner, Kurt Rambis, whose qualifications for the position include a strong relationship with Jackson and a willingness to take the job.

  

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icecold21
Member since Jan 18th 2008
8433 posts
Sat Oct-27-12 09:19 PM

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40. "I didn't know they got two 1's out of it at first"
In response to Reply # 28


  

          

I ain't mad at them. Kevin Martin can give them the scoring off the bench for now and they way Presti drafts he can probably turn those picks into something good.

_________________________________________

  

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ThaTruth
Charter member
95104 posts
Sat Oct-27-12 10:05 PM

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67. "without Perk they're not getting past the Lakers"
In response to Reply # 23


          

________________________________________
"Stay out the dark, cause if I catch you when the sun is down..."
https://youtu.be/eaaTxVRG06c?t=89

  

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icecold21
Member since Jan 18th 2008
8433 posts
Sat Oct-27-12 09:09 PM

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25. "Jeremy Lin has got to be THRILLED"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

take some pressure off his ass for sure

_________________________________________

  

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Cenario
Member since Aug 24th 2005
57485 posts
Sat Oct-27-12 09:12 PM

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31. "Wit harden they may actually win a few games."
In response to Reply # 25


  

          

-The Knicks’ coaching search still includes a lone frontrunner, Kurt Rambis, whose qualifications for the position include a strong relationship with Jackson and a willingness to take the job.

  

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southphillyman
Member since Oct 22nd 2003
90059 posts
Sat Oct-27-12 09:10 PM

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26. "Guess the Thunder agreed with me"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

Ibeka got less than max but it's incentive laden so he *could* still get the max
Harden didn't want to take that....so peace out
They got to keep the player that is more valuable to their team AND added depth
Smart decision by the thunder and another dumb decision by Morey the Metrics Boy

~~~~~~

  

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Guinness
Charter member
26270 posts
Thu May-16-13 01:39 PM

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284. "HAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAH"
In response to Reply # 26


  

          

  

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J_Stew
Member since Jul 06th 2002
22363 posts
Sat Oct-27-12 09:10 PM

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27. "Herschel Walker like trade for the Thunder"
In response to Reply # 0


          

  

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murph71
Member since Sep 15th 2005
23113 posts
Sat Oct-27-12 09:11 PM

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29. "RE: Okc trades james harden to rockets? "
In response to Reply # 0


          




Nuts....

GOAT of his era......long live Prince.....God is alive....

  

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d.
Member since Dec 13th 2009
4132 posts
Sat Oct-27-12 09:11 PM

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30. "man, I have high expectations for Lamb | Houston lookin' nice"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

I think he could end up being the best player out of Houston's 2012 draft class

http://www.nba.com/rockets/roster/2012

___

  

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blueeclipse
Member since Apr 12th 2009
1633 posts
Sat Oct-27-12 09:13 PM

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32. "Sam Presti is a G."
In response to Reply # 0
Sat Oct-27-12 09:14 PM by blueeclipse

  

          

This is how you run a fuckin small market/mid market franchise. You keep leverage and you stock assets. You don't overpay and put your eggs all in one basket.

I'm fuckin jealous right now. This shit was some jedi shit.

Joe Dumars.....this is how it's done man. Get back to what you do Joe.

Dream with your eyes open.....

  

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LBs Finest
Member since Sep 28th 2005
19844 posts
Sat Oct-27-12 09:14 PM

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33. "so its Lamb, Martin, two 1sts & a 2nd in the 2013 draft for James Harden"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

Cole Aldridge, Lazar Hayward, and Daequan Cook.

damn that's not bad compensation for OKC.

_________________________

  

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LAbeathustla
Member since Jan 24th 2004
33793 posts
Sat Oct-27-12 09:15 PM

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34. "morey did the right thing tho..dump kmart and get a player for those pic..."
In response to Reply # 0
Sat Oct-27-12 09:16 PM by LAbeathustla

  

          

we aint need no more kiddoes around...kmart was not a hot trade commodity..nobody wanted him..so we basically got an already made player for those picks..

and then..lamb aint all that..preseason told me so

------------------------------------
2019 CABG Survivor

2016 OK Survivor Champion

be about it or be without it

RIP GOATs

  

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El_essence
Charter member
24899 posts
Sat Oct-27-12 09:16 PM

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36. "It's actually a good deal for OKC. They didn't want to go through"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

no bullshit. If he ain't taking the deal, let's move him. I get it.

  

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ConcreteCharlie
Member since Nov 21st 2002
71344 posts
Sat Oct-27-12 09:16 PM

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37. "Love the deal for OKC, win/win really"
In response to Reply # 0
Sat Oct-27-12 09:35 PM by ConcreteCharlie

  

          

houston is getting the best player in the deal, that's solid, too. it's not like they were going to get a lot for martin or lamb individually or that those guys were long-term pieces. so they basically got him for the picks.

OKC get their paper straight, get a guy to fill the role with Martin, add another player to their rotation and diversify holdings with some future picks (two firsts and a second seems to be what's out there now). This is definitely the type of trade they needed to make, we'll see how they make it work.

And you will know MY JACKET IS GOLD when I lay my vengeance upon thee.

  

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MothershipConnection
Member since Nov 22nd 2003
7498 posts
Sat Oct-27-12 09:32 PM

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53. "Who's gonna be the playmaker for their 2nd unit?"
In response to Reply # 37


  

          

Is Maynor running the offense for their 2s enough? Not hating, I'm just curious if it's gonna work out for them... Martin can replace Harden's scoring close enough but he's not nearly the playmaker that Harden is.

I really think Lamb might have walked right into the perfect situation for him too... he's got that ultimate glue guy potential, he could develop into that 2 they need full-time next to Westbrook who can defend and be a threat to score without needing to dominate the ball.

  

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LegacyNS
Member since Jan 16th 2004
37984 posts
Sun Oct-28-12 08:20 AM

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104. "agreed & their window is right now.."
In response to Reply # 53


  

          

There's no guarantee 3 years from now they'll be title contenders...

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
<---- 5....
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dlgiritpmfo

=======================================
Occupy Big Government..

Fannie, Freddie dole out big bonuses
http://www.politico.com/news/stories/1011/67292.html

  

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ConcreteCharlie
Member since Nov 21st 2002
71344 posts
Sun Oct-28-12 01:49 PM

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146. "they'll figure it out, i mean it's not going to be a situation where ..."
In response to Reply # 53


  

          

a guy steps in and performs harden's exact role or they have a strict second unit. obviously i am just guessing but IMO when you have two big-minute, big-money stars, you can always take the phil jackson approach of never having both guys off the floor at the same time. problem solved.

And you will know MY JACKET IS GOLD when I lay my vengeance upon thee.

  

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Mageddon
Charter member
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168. "Jose Calderon"
In response to Reply # 53


  

          

  

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icecold21
Member since Jan 18th 2008
8433 posts
Sat Oct-27-12 09:20 PM

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41. "Woj says final offer was 4 yrs 53-53 mil"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

Harden said no, so now he's gone

_________________________________________

  

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LBs Finest
Member since Sep 28th 2005
19844 posts
Sat Oct-27-12 09:23 PM

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45. "lol who is that Laker fan that said Harden would take less money to stay"
In response to Reply # 41


  

          

young niggas don't give a shit about rings, it's all about that paper. Harden wasn't signing any deal short of that max 60 mil.

_________________________

  

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JBoogs
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Sat Oct-27-12 09:37 PM

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56. "ESPN says it was 55.5, only 4.5 less than the max"
In response to Reply # 41


  

          


***************
I've traveled far and wide through many different times...

  

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ConcreteCharlie
Member since Nov 21st 2002
71344 posts
Mon Oct-29-12 10:43 AM

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208. "lmao if true, what a cornball acting all shocked"
In response to Reply # 56


  

          

you gotta figure that from the team's standpoint that $1M a year meant something otherwise they'd have just gone all in and said fuck it.

harden now giving us the typical weepy lines about leaving and being stunned, blah blah blah. they send these guys to the same fucking cliche school now.

And you will know MY JACKET IS GOLD when I lay my vengeance upon thee.

  

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SsenepoD
Member since Nov 13th 2007
4308 posts
Mon Oct-29-12 11:57 AM

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216. "RE: Woj says final offer was 4 yrs 53-53 mil"
In response to Reply # 41


  

          

the timing is weird to me...53 isn't THAT far from 60 especially considering they could have taken the entire year to keep negotiating...like someone said, their window is now. even though they're setting up to be good long term with young players locked up, etc. but you can't predict the future.

they've already hit homeruns with 4 draft picks (KD, Russ, Harden, Ibaka)which, while the result of great GM work, is also part luck. losing one of those guys in hopes that you hit two more homeruns (lamb & the toronto pick) seems iffy to me. they have to be confident that their team now can still compete, but they're obviously not on the same level they were (unless lamb & PJ3 ball out this year).

___________________________
He has the confidence of Vernon Maxwell on a yayo binge.

http://www.2amDonuts.bandcamp.com

  

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LBs Finest
Member since Sep 28th 2005
19844 posts
Sat Oct-27-12 09:21 PM

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42. "OKC got three 1st round picks next year, they can make another deal."
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

_________________________

  

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Cenario
Member since Aug 24th 2005
57485 posts
Sat Oct-27-12 09:23 PM

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43. "Houston got 3rd best backcourt in nba"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

:-)

-The Knicks’ coaching search still includes a lone frontrunner, Kurt Rambis, whose qualifications for the position include a strong relationship with Jackson and a willingness to take the job.

  

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RexLongfellow
Charter member
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Sat Oct-27-12 11:40 PM

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81. "LOL"
In response to Reply # 43


  

          

>>>Houston got 3rd best backcourt in nba

  

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subjctmattr
Charter member
7987 posts
Sun Oct-28-12 08:18 AM

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103. "3rd from the bottom."
In response to Reply # 81


          

  

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illEskoBar221
Member since Oct 18th 2004
8453 posts
Sun Oct-28-12 08:38 AM

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106. "lol"
In response to Reply # 103


  

          

_____________________________

<----- Genesis is deep my features are that of a God


http://illeskobar.deviantart.com/
http://thisiskyleskorner.blogspot.com/

  

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Melanism
Charter member
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Sat Oct-27-12 09:25 PM

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46. "I'm glad Morey finally got to trade for somebody."
In response to Reply # 0


          

He was just walking around with all these assets and nothing to show for it.

Now he has Chicago's backup center, the Knicks' superstar PG for 25 games and OKC's 6th Man

  

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Cenario
Member since Aug 24th 2005
57485 posts
Sat Oct-27-12 09:28 PM

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48. "Lol"
In response to Reply # 46


  

          


>
>Now he has Chicago's backup center, the Knicks' superstar PG
>for 25 games and OKC's 6th Man

-The Knicks’ coaching search still includes a lone frontrunner, Kurt Rambis, whose qualifications for the position include a strong relationship with Jackson and a willingness to take the job.

  

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LAbeathustla
Member since Jan 24th 2004
33793 posts
Sat Oct-27-12 09:29 PM

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49. "hey its somethin..lowry was out, kmart wasnt shit...fk it"
In response to Reply # 46


  

          

>He was just walking around with all these assets and nothing
>to show for it.
>
>Now he has Chicago's backup center, the Knicks' superstar PG
>for 25 games and OKC's 6th Man

------------------------------------
2019 CABG Survivor

2016 OK Survivor Champion

be about it or be without it

RIP GOATs

  

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southphillyman
Member since Oct 22nd 2003
90059 posts
Sat Oct-27-12 09:32 PM

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54. "Not bad for $110 million....."
In response to Reply # 46


  

          


>Now he has Chicago's backup center, the Knicks' superstar PG
>for 25 games and OKC's 6th Man

~~~~~~

  

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ThaTruth
Charter member
95104 posts
Sat Oct-27-12 10:07 PM

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69. "lolz"
In response to Reply # 54


          

________________________________________
"Stay out the dark, cause if I catch you when the sun is down..."
https://youtu.be/eaaTxVRG06c?t=89

  

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dula dibiasi
Member since Apr 05th 2004
21925 posts
Sat Oct-27-12 09:31 PM

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52. "great deal for the thun."
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

i was scared they were gonna fall for the banana in the tailpipe and max that overrated dude. very nice return package. martin'll replace 90% of what harden brought to the table, lamb was the best SG in the draft, and they'll turn those picks into a couple solid rotation guys to support durant + westbrook thru their primes.

good job, presti.

___

it is a capital mistake to theorize before one has data. insensibly one begins to twist facts to suit theories, instead of theories to suit facts. - sherlock holmes

  

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LBs Finest
Member since Sep 28th 2005
19844 posts
Sat Oct-27-12 09:47 PM

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64. "doubt it."
In response to Reply # 52
Sat Oct-27-12 09:48 PM by LBs Finest

  

          

>martin'll replace 90% of what harden brought to the
>table

harden is a better athlete, defender and he was more efficient. but most importantly he was the team's best playmaker.

_________________________

  

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rob
Charter member
23209 posts
Sat Oct-27-12 10:05 PM

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68. "lakers seem to have done fine in a decade without a "playmaker""
In response to Reply # 64


  

          

  

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LBs Finest
Member since Sep 28th 2005
19844 posts
Sat Oct-27-12 11:22 PM

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79. "first of all i didn't say Harden was OKC's ONLY playmaker"
In response to Reply # 68


  

          

i said he was their best one, and kevin martin will not replace that aspect of Harden's game.

and despite his selfishness, kobe has been our lone playmaker for most of that decade, he did a good job balancing that MJ/Pip role in the triangle.

_________________________

  

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southphillyman
Member since Oct 22nd 2003
90059 posts
Sat Oct-27-12 10:11 PM

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71. "Rockets will have one of the worst defensive backcourts in the league"
In response to Reply # 64


  

          

~~~~~~

  

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Guinness
Charter member
26270 posts
Thu May-16-13 01:38 PM

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283. "LOL!"
In response to Reply # 52


  

          

  

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Castro
Charter member
49977 posts
Sat Oct-27-12 09:38 PM

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57. "LA Fans next spring: "FUCKING ROCKETS""
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

------------------
One Hundred.

  

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PROMO
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26739 posts
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60. "Sam Presti is a genius."
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

STAND OUT HAND OUTS: http://basquiatwhenipaint.tumblr.com

TWEET ME: @PROMO206

  

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Ink_Spot
Member since Mar 26th 2004
2947 posts
Sat Oct-27-12 09:42 PM

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61. "wow...okc got better"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

...

  

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PROMO
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26739 posts
Sat Oct-27-12 09:45 PM

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63. "reply #60"
In response to Reply # 61


  

          

STAND OUT HAND OUTS: http://basquiatwhenipaint.tumblr.com

TWEET ME: @PROMO206

  

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FILF
Member since Jun 01st 2007
20180 posts
Sat Oct-27-12 09:49 PM

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65. "TBD"
In response to Reply # 61


  

          

WHAT'S GOOD *****? What's REALLY good?!?!????!!! Ha HA!
http://40.media.tumblr.com/d8e2daf9f3f37244cd05436bcdf05973/tumblr_mt4qibKq4c1rgam01o1_1280.png

  

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Bombastic
Charter member
88863 posts
Sat Oct-27-12 09:50 PM

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66. "both teams trade hard(c)"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

  

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Ink_Spot
Member since Mar 26th 2004
2947 posts
Sat Oct-27-12 10:20 PM

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72. "lol..........good one"
In response to Reply # 66


  

          

....

  

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ThaTruth
Charter member
95104 posts
Sat Oct-27-12 10:08 PM

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70. "I think OKC won"
In response to Reply # 0


          

________________________________________
"Stay out the dark, cause if I catch you when the sun is down..."
https://youtu.be/eaaTxVRG06c?t=89

  

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Basaglia
Member since Nov 30th 2004
49462 posts
Sat Oct-27-12 10:24 PM

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73. "this is perry jones doing...he obviously ready to contribute"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

no way they get rid of harden without believing jones the real thing and that lamb can help

____________________________________________________


Steph: I was just fooling about

Kyrie: I wasn't.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R8OWNspU_yE

  

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ThaTruth
Charter member
95104 posts
Sat Oct-27-12 10:31 PM

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74. "lol"
In response to Reply # 73


          

________________________________________
"Stay out the dark, cause if I catch you when the sun is down..."
https://youtu.be/eaaTxVRG06c?t=89

  

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PROMO
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Sun Oct-28-12 12:15 AM

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84. "that's the way i see it. then there's also the small matter..."
In response to Reply # 73


  

          

of Harden's playoff performance last season. i don't think that can be understated. dude WILTED.

STAND OUT HAND OUTS: http://basquiatwhenipaint.tumblr.com

TWEET ME: @PROMO206

  

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theeraser
Member since Feb 11th 2007
7218 posts
Sun Oct-28-12 07:20 AM

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96. "Harden sucked in the Finals but he helped won the Spurs and Lakers serie..."
In response to Reply # 84


          

  

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ThaTruth
Charter member
95104 posts
Sun Oct-28-12 09:36 AM

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112. "OKC wasn't giving him a max deal regardless, so if that's what Harden..."
In response to Reply # 84


          

demanded he was going to walk.

And apparently OKC did offer him close to the max but I think it was about more than money, I think he wants to be out of KD and Westbrook's shadow.

________________________________________
"Stay out the dark, cause if I catch you when the sun is down..."
https://youtu.be/eaaTxVRG06c?t=89

  

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BSharp
Charter member
9243 posts
Sun Oct-28-12 03:12 PM

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153. "Harden was murder in the first 3 rounds."
In response to Reply # 84


  

          

He sucked in the finals, but he looked better than he ever has throughout the Western Conference playoffs.

  

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ShawndmeSlanted
Member since Oct 30th 2004
42971 posts
Sun Oct-28-12 12:02 AM

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83. "LOLz"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

John Hollinger ‏@johnhollinger
Just realized that OKC arguably got more for Harden than Magic did for Dwight.

---
"though time has passed, im still the future" (c) black thought

  

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CliffDogg
Member since Dec 19th 2004
18077 posts
Sun Oct-28-12 10:41 AM

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134. "hahahahaha"
In response to Reply # 83


  

          

----

THFC
F1
MotoGP

  

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themaddfapper
Member since Mar 09th 2010
7558 posts
Sun Oct-28-12 01:49 AM

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85. "and this is why Simmons hired Zack Lowe (swizzy)"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          


http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/basketball/nba/blogs/nba-point-forward/2012/08/21/james-harden-okc-thunder-potential-trade/

"As for Harden, Houston could get far enough under the cap to offer several types of packages — one built around Kevin Martin’s expiring deal and a couple of picks, including Toronto’s likely lottery pick; or another built around those same picks, plus some combination of young wing players (Jeremy Lamb, Chandler Parsons, etc). (Note: Any deal involving Martin would require the Thunder to send out about $2.5 million in salary on top of Harden)."

This is smart GM'ing for both teams. One monkey don't stop no show. Martin's a professional 2, playing for his next deal on a contender. Lamb is a sixth man and a potential starter on a rookie deal next year.

3 first round picks? They have no more use for youngins. Those are getting flipped somewhere. Great job by Presti.

Morey did something sooner than later. And that helps the team. Nothing's worse than being a team in flux for a season (see last year's Nets) They have a star that can give them firepower at an All-Star Caliber and they added James Harden! (I couldn't resist.)

still gonna have tons of cap room next summer. Young forwards, hopefully one's a keeper, and one can be flipped. Absorb a deal in a trade? Sign a FAgent? Good move by Morey.

  

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Ryan M
Member since Oct 21st 2002
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87. "*thinks about fantasy implications*"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

Okc won probably long term but Houston got a good player for sure.

------------------------------

17x NBA Champions

  

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ShawndmeSlanted
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91. "Lol gonna give you a nice Ws boost"
In response to Reply # 87


  

          

---
"though time has passed, im still the future" (c) black thought

  

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Guinness
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88. "morey got his top 20 player."
In response to Reply # 0
Sun Oct-28-12 04:04 AM by Guinness

  

          

harden's the best offensive SG in the NBA after manu -- but far younger. houston got a potential superstar without giving up any part of their core. it's not a bad deal for OKC, but they let their second-best player leave and didn't get back a second-best player. they're not winning a second round game in the west. and the rockets will make the playoffs.

  

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CherNic
Member since Aug 18th 2005
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Sun Oct-28-12 05:22 AM

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90. "waaaaaaat?!"
In response to Reply # 88


  

          

>harden's the best offensive SG in the NBA after manu

you mean comin off the bench right?

  

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FireBrand
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94. "^^^"
In response to Reply # 88


  

          

"Slaves got options...cowards aint got shit." --PS
"Once upon a time, little need existed for making the distinction between a nigga and a black—at least not in this country, the place where niggas were invented" -- Donnell A

  

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theeraser
Member since Feb 11th 2007
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Sun Oct-28-12 07:22 AM

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97. "Exactly, Kobe is barely a top 200 player at this point!"
In response to Reply # 88


          

  

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AnonymousCoward
Member since Sep 17th 2002
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Sun Oct-28-12 07:34 AM

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98. "Do you really believe Harden > Westbrook?"
In response to Reply # 88


  

          

http://clydefrazierapproves.com/
http://stylepoints.tumblr.com/

"Like 4 out of 5 things you say on OKP offend me." -FireBrand

  

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Guinness
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120. "Easily."
In response to Reply # 98
Sun Oct-28-12 10:16 AM by Guinness

  

          

Westbrook is explosive and sometimes unguardable, but he shoots too erratically and turns the ball over too frequently. Harden is the most efficient shooting guard in the league outside of Manu, and is 23 years old. Westbrook is way better on defense though.

OKC fucked themselves by opting for Russy over Harden.

  

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ConcreteCharlie
Member since Nov 21st 2002
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129. "it's more a referendum on russy but harden is not "better""
In response to Reply # 120


  

          

could this efficiency have to do with the guys around him? now he is going to a situation where he becomes the number 1 option 100% of the time. he is going to have a steep curve, i think you'll reevaluate this harden>russy argument soon.

And you will know MY JACKET IS GOLD when I lay my vengeance upon thee.

  

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AnonymousCoward
Member since Sep 17th 2002
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152. "exactly. Lets see how he fares after a full season "
In response to Reply # 129


  

          

of drawing the opposing team's #1 defender

http://clydefrazierapproves.com/
http://stylepoints.tumblr.com/

"Like 4 out of 5 things you say on OKP offend me." -FireBrand

  

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Guinness
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184. "westbrook is pretty overrated. "
In response to Reply # 129
Sun Oct-28-12 10:09 PM by Guinness

  

          

i love watching him play, but he's an above-average point guard and not a superstar. his phenomenal athleticism and occasional huge games camouflage a guy doesn't do anything on an elite level except get to the foul line (and make them). russy is young and his shooting keeps improving, so i don't think he's reached his peak. that said, i'd rather have harden because he's younger and better.

look at harden's offensive rating and TS%. shit is out of control.

http://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/pcm_finder.cgi?request=1&sum=0&p1=westbru01&y1=2012&p2=hardeja01&y2=2012

  

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ThaTruth
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114. "RE: morey got his top 20 player."
In response to Reply # 88


          

>harden's the best offensive SG in the NBA after manu -- but
>far younger. houston got a potential superstar without giving
>up any part of their core.

what "core" did they have to give up?

________________________________________
"Stay out the dark, cause if I catch you when the sun is down..."
https://youtu.be/eaaTxVRG06c?t=89

  

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Guinness
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121. "Asik, Lin, Parsons."
In response to Reply # 114


  

          

  

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ThaTruth
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128. "lol, like any other team actually wants those dudes"
In response to Reply # 121


          

________________________________________
"Stay out the dark, cause if I catch you when the sun is down..."
https://youtu.be/eaaTxVRG06c?t=89

  

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Guinness
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292. "LOL!"
In response to Reply # 128


  

          

  

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calminvasion
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144. "Lol, I dot even think Morey would call that his "core""
In response to Reply # 121


  

          

  

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Guinness
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171. "really?"
In response to Reply # 144


  

          

they definitely went to some trouble to get asik and lin. both are young and relatively affordable until year three. and parsons is young and dirt cheap. i'm not saying those guys are irreplaceable, but they're mainly who the rox are building around (outside of harden and whoever they try to sign in the offseason).

  

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ConcreteCharlie
Member since Nov 21st 2002
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157. "not much of a core, i am an asik fan but you've got him hyped up"
In response to Reply # 121


  

          

best case scenario dude is sideshow andy.

And you will know MY JACKET IS GOLD when I lay my vengeance upon thee.

  

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RexLongfellow
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118. "So Kobe & Wade Don't Exist?"
In response to Reply # 88


  

          

  

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ConcreteCharlie
Member since Nov 21st 2002
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126. "Iono man when I hear "Top 20" and "Big 3" I say "Slow down""
In response to Reply # 88


  

          

Harden is the best player in the deal no doubt but he is no more a building block than Eric Gordon, who people weren't exactly ejaculating over when he arrived in New Orleans.

I'm surprised by the surprise here, it's a paper straightening move by OKC first and foremost and therefore a W in my book because it also makes a lot of basketball sense.

Ibaka's extension kicks in next year, they weren't gonna pay five guys $10M+ so they had some urgency to make a move now or in the immediate future. Martin comes off the books this year, too, right? They stock under these guys with Lamb and the picks, nice.

Morey does well here but overall not enough to save face after the Dwight debacle.

And you will know MY JACKET IS GOLD when I lay my vengeance upon thee.

  

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Guinness
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133. "Nah."
In response to Reply # 126
Sun Oct-28-12 10:37 AM by Guinness

  

          

Harden and Gordon are not comparable. By any offensive metric that values efficiency, Harden is absolutely an elite player. While I agree that his responsibility will change, in Houston I'm not of the mind that his TS% will drop 100 points, which would STILL have him higher rated than Melo or Kobe. I mean, his numbers were fucking insane last year. I'm talking about only offense here.

  

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murph71
Member since Sep 15th 2005
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Sun Oct-28-12 11:26 AM

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142. "RE: Nah."
In response to Reply # 133


          

>Harden and Gordon are not comparable. By any offensive metric
>that values efficiency, Harden is absolutely an elite player.


I like Harden and all...

But elite? Nah....He's good though...In order to be elite, you have to shoulder a huge amount of responsibility in terms of offense...

Harden was never the man on his own team...Let's come back down to earth here...

GOAT of his era......long live Prince.....God is alive....

  

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DJR
Member since Jan 01st 2005
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154. "watch the games"
In response to Reply # 133


  

          

As if Durant and Westbrook's presence didn't have an enormous impact on Harden's efficiency.

All this nerd metric number crunching shit is getting tiring. Watch basketball. Harden's not a lead dog. Not a max player, Houston's not going anywhere with him as their best player.

  

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ConcreteCharlie
Member since Nov 21st 2002
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159. "base, i mean he is nice, i am not trying to hate but to put him on ..."
In response to Reply # 154


  

          

a level with elite players, that to me shows that sometimes figures lie, even "advanced" ones.

he can be a nice #2 option, i definitely see the reasoning here but i suspect houston is not done dealing.

And you will know MY JACKET IS GOLD when I lay my vengeance upon thee.

  

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Guinness
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196. "THANKS BRO"
In response to Reply # 154


  

          

because i know the numbers better than you, i must not watch games.

  

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DJR
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Mon Oct-29-12 10:56 AM

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210. "Then recognize the impact of his teammates on that "efficiency rating""
In response to Reply # 196


  

          

  

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thejerseytornado
Member since Dec 24th 2005
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212. "lol. the gap is so big, tho"
In response to Reply # 210


  

          

and there's the equal aspect of his impact on his teammates, or does that only go one way?

nevermind that of the 5 man lineups harden played in, the second most common lineup had both Durant and Westbrook on the bench last season and was as efficient as the with durant and westbrook lineup and that the difference on the team of him being on and off the court led to a substantial gap where Gordon's never did.

so yeah, even if you take into account that he had durant/westbrook while gordon had blake/davis...he's better.

-----------
It's only funny till someone gets mad. Then it's hilarious.

  

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DJR
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243. "nah, I wasn't even arguing Gordon/Harden"
In response to Reply # 212


  

          

though I could see why it was taken that way, based on where I replied.

I was more challenging the notion that Harden is an "elite" player because of his efficiency ratings.

I think he's good. Maybe even very good, but I don't see elite and I don't think he's a max contract guy. And I think that will likely show in Houston. We'll see.

  

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ShawndmeSlanted
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245. "What is a max contract guy these days?"
In response to Reply # 243


  

          

Lawson not taking 11 million a year is basically holding out for the max.

There seems to not be a lot of in between these days. If you're decent with upside on a rookie contract you get a near max deal. You may not think a guy is worth that, but the market will say that he is. Somebody will pay--if you don't math you lose your guy for almost nothing. Few teams are lucky enough to have guys who are really worth max deals but letting a guy go fr nothing that you've spent 3 yrs developing does nothing for you either.

If there was no cap guys like Lennon would get 50 million a year.

---
"though time has passed, im still the future" (c) black thought

  

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Guinness
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285. "HEY BOZO!"
In response to Reply # 243


  

          

  

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DJR
Member since Jan 01st 2005
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297. "Wow. I gotta take that L."
In response to Reply # 154


  

          

>As if Durant and Westbrook's presence didn't have an enormous
>impact on Harden's efficiency.
>
>All this nerd metric number crunching shit is getting tiring.
>Watch basketball. Harden's not a lead dog. Not a max player,
>Houston's not going anywhere with him as their best player.

Harden being THIS good? I did not see it coming.

  

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Dstl1
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299. "respect"
In response to Reply # 297


          

.

when I threw the rifle in the river,
it looked like Bol Bol was diving in the river - Action Bronson

  

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ShawndmeSlanted
Member since Oct 30th 2004
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Sun Oct-28-12 05:18 AM

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89. "Inner workings of the deal article by Woj"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

http://t.co/f82gwwtW


Inside look at James Harden's trade to Rockets

By Adrian Wojnarowski | Yahoo! Sports – 2 hours 40 minutes ago

For months, Houston Rockets general manager Daryl Morey called on Oklahoma City's Sam Presti, probing him with a simple question: Want to discuss a deal for James Harden yet? Over and over, the response had been an unwavering no. The Thunder wanted to sign Harden to a contract extension, hold together their young core and try to win championships for years and years.
Finally, there had come a call within the past several days to Morey: Presti wanted to seriously discuss the framework of a trade, because if Harden wouldn't take the Thunder's final offer, this promised to be the next step. From owner Clay Bennett to Presti and assistant GM Troy Weaver, a decision had been made: James Harden had played his final game for the Thunder.
After turning down a $52 million extension several days ago, Harden's agent, Rob Pelinka, flew from Los Angeles to Oklahoma City on Friday for a final sit-down with Presti. He wanted a max contract of four years, $60 million for his client, and had come to Oklahoma City to push management as far as it would go on an offer.
Before sitting down a final time with Pelinka, Presti became more serious in his discussions with Morey. Houston wanted Harden badly, believed he would evolve into a transcendent franchise star for a championship-caliber team and planned to award him a five-year maximum contract worth nearly $80 million. So, Presti laid out what he wanted for Harden and the original price was steep: Kevin Martin, Chandler Parsons, Jeremy Lamb and three first-round picks, including Houston's own in 2013.
Across 72 hours and culminating on Friday night, the deal became this: Martin, Lamb and two first-round picks, including a guaranteed plumb lottery pick via Toronto. Before Presti sat down with Pelinka on Saturday morning to make his final offer of $54 million over four years, the Rockets were made to understand: If Harden turns down, your long-awaited star is on his way to Texas.

In those finals hours on Saturday, the NBA made clear to Oklahoma City and Houston: Under no circumstances could Morey and Pelinka discuss a potential contract extension. Nevertheless, it was understood Morey would never let Wednesday's deadline pass without giving Harden the five-year max extension that wasn't available in Oklahoma City.
All along, Pelinka and Harden understood: From the Rockets, to the Phoenix Suns, to the Dallas Mavericks, there was a maximum contract offer awaiting him in free agency. Harden's market value wouldn't be dictated on the fact the Thunder planned to pay him as the franchise's third-best player. Less money and a sixth-man role – after a summer with Team USA at the Olympics, this was an impossible sell on Harden.

The impact on the Thunder locker room won't have the dark fallout some fear. When word reached Russell Westbrook late on Friday, he was disappointed Harden was gone – loved him as person, a teammate – but he wasn't devastated over the deal. Privately, Westbrook loved how Presti had strengthened the back of the Thunder roster with two rookies, Perry Jones and Houston draft pick Jeremy Lamb. He always admired how Martin had scored on the Thunder.
Center Kendrick Perkins also had privately told people he believed a trade was inevitable, too. To a man, none of the key Thunder players were surprised this happened, and none are conceding championship aspirations. In some ways, they can all breathe out now: This is the team, and now they go forward.
If nothing else, Westbrook and Kevin Durant have long learned to trust the judgment of Presti and Weaver. When the Thunder couldn't get an extension done with Jeff Green, they turned him into a piece the franchise desperately needed: Perkins. Everyone in the organization privately knew this, too: Harden wouldn't have thrived with the uncertainty and questions that would come with him unsigned past Wednesday, with him headed to the Feb. 21 trade deadline and, ultimately, restricted free agency on July 1.

Harden struggled in the NBA Finals, tried too hard and slowly, surely unraveled over the course of the series. When the rest of the Thunder were celebrating a Game 1 victory over Miami in the locker room, Harden could be heard grumbling over too few shots (five), and too few minutes (22).
Veterans Derek Fisher and Perkins laid into Harden, telling him essentially: We just won an NBA Finals game and the last thing in the world that ought to worry you are your individual statistics. Harden apologized, but it was clear his mindset wasn't right. He never found his way back into a proper rhythm in the Finals.

This isn't an indictment of Harden. He cares deeply, but it is hard to be 23 years old and needing to prove yourself worthy of the salary that will come with stardom. There's a popular argument that Harden isn't worth max money, because he played so poorly in the Finals. He was magnificent for the Thunder a year ago, regular season through the Western Conference finals victory over San Antonio. If he ever gets there again, he'll probably play better.
The Rockets don't need Harden to play well in the Finals this year, or next, because they won't be there. They'll now feature an offense around Harden and believe he'll blossom into an annual All-Star, an all-league player.
Oklahoma City's front office was melancholy on Saturday night. They had drafted this core, developed it and hoped they could keep it together for years and years. Ownership might have gone further with its final offer of $54 million, but Presti drew the line on how much he was willing to invest into Harden and ended the talks there. The NBA's new collective bargaining agreement delivers devastating luxury-tax penalties to teams over the cap – $1.50 for every dollar over the tax threshold – and Presti simply couldn't justify the cost. This wouldn't go until Wednesday night's deadline, Presti informed Pelinka. That's the final offer, and his next call would be to Houston to tell Morey: Let's reach out to the league office and get a trade call to make this official.

In the end, Presti would secure a player to score off his bench this year (Martin), a gifted prospect for the future (Lamb) and a lottery pick that could give the Thunder a chance to draft another elite talent. Giving the Thunder another protected first-round pick from Dallas was more than Houston wanted to do, but the Rockets weren't willing to let Presti get on the phone and find a better deal. Morey believes Jeremy Lin and Harden will be stars in the NBA, and he's gambling his own – and his franchise's – future on it.
From Sam Presti to Daryl Morey to James Harden, everyone ran his share of risk in this scenario and it all tumbled into motion in these final, frenzied 48 hours. This is the kind of deal that changes careers, changes franchises, and everyone breathed out on Saturday and understood: No turning back now.

---
"though time has passed, im still the future" (c) black thought

  

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ThaTruth
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116. "so Harden basically walked over $6mil? He wants to be the man"
In response to Reply # 89


          

________________________________________
"Stay out the dark, cause if I catch you when the sun is down..."
https://youtu.be/eaaTxVRG06c?t=89

  

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KosherSam
Member since Mar 18th 2004
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Sun Oct-28-12 05:06 PM

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169. "which is weird, because he expressly DIDN'T want to be the man"
In response to Reply # 116


  

          

http://www.grantland.com/story/_/id/7982195/the-many-faces-oklahoma-city-thunder-guard-james-harden

In high school and college, Harden had accepted the leading role — but only grudgingly. "Coming up, he was always the best player," says Glasser, who played with him at Artesia and Arizona State. "But he never played like he was the best player." Intensely competitive but eager to please, Harden only grew assertive when he realized that everyone — teammates especially — wanted him to. "Sometimes we would all just look at him, and it was kind of like, OK, let's go, buddy! We want to win, so we need you to take over!" Glasser remembers. "Whether he wanted to or not, he had to accept the fact that when the game was on the line, it was up to him. That just comes with the territory."

It's not that Harden was unwilling to dominate, but he was a reactive player who countered opponents rather than imposing his will on them. "James is like a martial artist," Arizona State coach Herb Sendek says. "He uses the force of the game against itself. He doesn't play with predetermined conclusions." On the first game of a northwest road trip his sophomore year at ASU, Harden dropped 36 points on 21 shots in a win over Oregon. Two nights later, against an Oregon State team that trapped and double-teamed him all night, he played the decoy role, and the Sun Devils won again. "After that game," Sendek says, "he was celebrating just as much as anyone. It didn't matter that he had barely scored."

Though Harden was slotted near the top of most draft boards, Presti's decision to pick him over Tyreke Evans, Ricky Rubio, and Stephen Curry was largely based on fit. Shortly before the draft, Harden sent Presti an e-mail explaining why he thought he belonged in Oklahoma City. "He made it clear that he understood the ethos of the organization," Presti says. "He understood the dynamic of our team, that it wasn't going to be a typical situation for someone drafted that high. Instead of being worried about it, he was motivated by it."

*Jews you*

"this is okp tho, reading is completely optional" (c) desus

Proceed with caution. I am overtly racist.

<-- In Pigpen we trust

  

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cyrus
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Mon Oct-29-12 11:19 AM

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211. "4/52 or 5/80?"
In response to Reply # 116


  

          

They say he would've stayed for 4/60, but I have a hard time believing that when he can get 5/80 somewhere else. A guaranteed year and $28 mil is a LOT to leave on the table.

  

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Cocobrotha2
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Tue Oct-30-12 01:37 PM

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263. "Nah he doesn't... but he wants to be paid like The Man"
In response to Reply # 116


          

Supposedly before the draft, he told the THunder's GM that he didn't want to be "The Man" like he was in college.

But now he still wanted to be paid like "The Man" (which I don't blame him)... so something had to give.

<-><-><-><-><-><-><-><-><->
<-><-><-><-><-><-><-><-><->

  

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ShawndmeSlanted
Member since Oct 30th 2004
42971 posts
Sun Oct-28-12 06:51 AM

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95. "Players react to the trade via twitter"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

lol at Tony Allen. Somehow I woulda guessed he would spell Harden's name wrong.

http://espn.go.com/blog/truehoop/post/_/id/50703/nba-players-react-to-harden-trade#comment

---
"though time has passed, im still the future" (c) black thought

  

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theeraser
Member since Feb 11th 2007
7218 posts
Sun Oct-28-12 07:36 AM

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99. "LOL Malik Allen is not a fan of the deal for OKC huh?"
In response to Reply # 95


          

  

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ShawndmeSlanted
Member since Oct 30th 2004
42971 posts
Sun Oct-28-12 07:37 AM

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100. "OKC Fan(s) a good film session w/+ outlook on what youre getting"
In response to Reply # 0
Sun Oct-28-12 07:38 AM by ShawndmeSlanted

  

          

in Martin

http://www.nba.com/rockets/news/film-session-kevin-martin

---
"though time has passed, im still the future" (c) black thought

  

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BrooklynWHAT
Member since Jun 15th 2007
82311 posts
Sun Oct-28-12 07:41 AM

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101. "smh okc shoulda ate that luxury tax."
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

<--- Big Baller World Order

  

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auragin_boi
Member since Aug 01st 2003
20871 posts
Sun Oct-28-12 08:36 AM

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105. "They don't make enough revenue to eat that tax"
In response to Reply # 101


  

          

It would have been HARSH for about 3-4 seasons.

they got cheaper (martin is off the books this summer), they are STILL title contenders, they got deeper and in 2 seasons that team may be the most talented in the league.

Let's say they keep one of the picks (Toronto's since it's lottery). trade the other two for future assets or a vet that can help. And PJIII and lamb WILL develop with this team.

that's a legit 8 guys that can contribute.

Right today, OKC took a baby step back (but still no worse than 3rd best team in the league). Next season and season after...HUGE steps forward.

____________

  

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CherNic
Member since Aug 18th 2005
37156 posts
Sun Oct-28-12 09:48 AM

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115. "If i understand correctly their revenue was 30-35 mil?"
In response to Reply # 105
Sun Oct-28-12 09:50 AM by CherNic

  

          

And the tax woulda been around 9 mil?

Edit im wrong lol...im not sure how much over the tax they would be

  

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Guinness
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Sun Oct-28-12 10:44 AM

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136. "Oh course they do."
In response to Reply # 105
Sun Oct-28-12 10:45 AM by Guinness

  

          

And if they don't, sell the fucking team. This idea that a prestige property like an NBA team should turn a profit every year is comedy (and I'm sure they turn a profit anyway). But seriously, some billionaire dickwads broke up a potential dynasty because they didn't feel like paying for one. Fuck that organization, especially since they're the ones who YOU KNOW, RELOCATED IT TO THAT SMALLER MARKET

  

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BrooklynWHAT
Member since Jun 15th 2007
82311 posts
Sun Oct-28-12 11:09 AM

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140. "they made 30 million last year ffs"
In response to Reply # 105


  

          

young, flashy, high-flying superstar trio. that shit prints money if they win.

<--- Big Baller World Order

  

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ConcreteCharlie
Member since Nov 21st 2002
71344 posts
Sun Oct-28-12 03:33 PM

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158. "why when they have more or less stayed pat and added for less $?"
In response to Reply # 105


  

          

nm

And you will know MY JACKET IS GOLD when I lay my vengeance upon thee.

  

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Guinness
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Sun Oct-28-12 10:21 AM

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123. "Obviously. "
In response to Reply # 101


  

          

They showed what mattered most to the organization: money. They had the chance for a potential dynasty and they blew it.

  

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ErnestLee
Member since Mar 03rd 2003
28531 posts
Sun Oct-28-12 11:06 AM

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139. "lol"
In response to Reply # 123


  

          


>They had the chance for a potential dynasty and they blew it.

---------------------------------------------------------

  

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Binlahab
Charter member
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Sun Oct-28-12 08:03 AM

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102. "not feeling it."
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

harden isnt a leader, he was the 3rd best option on a deep squad, who crashed & burned on the big stage. 60M & all that for him? not feeling it.

thats starting center money. thats what we need. inside presence.

i cant really see this teams personality. mchale is a downgrade from adelman why we let him go ill never understand. morey has let his press go to his head & overbought. i dont believe this makes the team more competitive in the West.

  

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ShawndmeSlanted
Member since Oct 30th 2004
42971 posts
Sun Oct-28-12 09:09 AM

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108. "Mchaleis the biggest question mark to me"
In response to Reply # 102


  

          

With the moves this team is making he doesn't fit as the coach.they hired him last yr with a much different team though.

---
"though time has passed, im still the future" (c) black thought

  

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las raises
Member since Aug 31st 2002
14948 posts
Sun Oct-28-12 09:15 AM

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110. "I agree with you"
In response to Reply # 102


  

          

I don't think he is going to produce the way he did in OKC, now he's the main focus on the opponents D, he won't do as good as people think

-----------------------------------------------------------------

  

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ConcreteCharlie
Member since Nov 21st 2002
71344 posts
Sun Oct-28-12 10:26 AM

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130. "you could have probably had perkins for a similar package "
In response to Reply # 102


  

          

centers are not easy to find. they did decently here IMO, a deal that worked with both teams' talent and salary situations.

And you will know MY JACKET IS GOLD when I lay my vengeance upon thee.

  

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Binlahab
Charter member
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Sun Oct-28-12 10:35 AM

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132. "the hell would we sign him to 60M for thats even dumber nm "
In response to Reply # 130


  

          


do or die

  

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ConcreteCharlie
Member since Nov 21st 2002
71344 posts
Sun Oct-28-12 01:51 PM

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147. "he already has a bloated contract, my point was that asset for asset"
In response to Reply # 132


  

          

you just couldnt get near this kind of return in a big man.

And you will know MY JACKET IS GOLD when I lay my vengeance upon thee.

  

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Guinness
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Sun Oct-28-12 10:41 AM

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135. "Dude, what?"
In response to Reply # 130
Sun Oct-28-12 10:59 AM by Guinness

  

          

Asik is better, younger and ALREADY ON THE TEAM

EDIT: DID YOU SERIOUSLY SUGGEST THAT THE ROX SHOULD HAVE TRADED FOR PERKINS INSTEAD OF HARDEN. WTF

  

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ConcreteCharlie
Member since Nov 21st 2002
71344 posts
Sun Oct-28-12 01:53 PM

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148. "the words 'should' and 'serious' found no place in my post"
In response to Reply # 135


  

          

what i was saying is that if you were offering this package to a team, perkins would be the level of player you'd get if you sought a big. it was a lame hypothetical, no a real suggestion, and nowhere did i say they "should" do it, rather it was why they should NOT have been shopping for a center as old bin suggested.

you're overstimulated, it's OK.

And you will know MY JACKET IS GOLD when I lay my vengeance upon thee.

  

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D_Tox151
Member since May 23rd 2002
4893 posts
Sun Oct-28-12 08:41 AM

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107. "almost exactly how perkins ended up in OKC"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

  

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Ownzdacourt
Member since Mar 14th 2004
4131 posts
Sun Oct-28-12 09:20 AM

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111. "thoughts"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

great trade for lakers and spurs lol

Why didn't they wait til next year to trade him? You had a team that made it to finals and you don't want to give it one more go? Smh if I am a Thunders fan.

We won't know who wins this trade after a couple more seasons.

Spurs NBA Champs 1999, 2003, 2005, 2007, 2014

  

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LegacyNS
Member since Jan 16th 2004
37984 posts
Sun Oct-28-12 10:23 AM

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125. "exactly....your window in NOW... who knows what things will look"
In response to Reply # 111


  

          

like 2-3 years from now.. Shit changes fast in the NBA...
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
<---- 5....
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dlgiritpmfo

=======================================
Occupy Big Government..

Fannie, Freddie dole out big bonuses
http://www.politico.com/news/stories/1011/67292.html

  

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ThaTruth
Charter member
95104 posts
Sun Oct-28-12 10:27 AM

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131. "They probably didn't want this lingering throughout the season, Harden's..."
In response to Reply # 125


          

value probably wasn't going to get any higher, it could have gotten worse though

________________________________________
"Stay out the dark, cause if I catch you when the sun is down..."
https://youtu.be/eaaTxVRG06c?t=89

  

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rob
Charter member
23209 posts
Sun Oct-28-12 02:04 PM

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149. "it doesn't change THAT fast when you have franchise cornerstones"
In response to Reply # 125


  

          

you're a kobe fan responding to a duncan fan.

  

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J_Stew
Member since Jul 06th 2002
22363 posts
Sun Oct-28-12 03:19 PM

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155. "This isn't baseball or football, shit doesn't change that fast"
In response to Reply # 125


          

You have 2 all stars and a good supporting cast, you have a chance to win a title every year. Plus you don't want a guy who thinks he's the man on a team with the 2nd best player in basketball(if that's the case, which some have hinted at).

  

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LegacyNS
Member since Jan 16th 2004
37984 posts
Sun Oct-28-12 06:01 PM

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173. "Celtics, Lakers, Heat, now the Lakers again..."
In response to Reply # 155


  

          

OKC & Chicago just emerged... A few other teams could be a few players away from contention... This is all in the span of like 5 years..
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
<---- 5....
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dlgiritpmfo

=======================================
Occupy Big Government..

Fannie, Freddie dole out big bonuses
http://www.politico.com/news/stories/1011/67292.html

  

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darius heyward bey
Member since Oct 13th 2009
5119 posts
Sun Oct-28-12 09:38 AM

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113. "OKC is gonna be ballin....Finals rematch"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

Nigga I'm FAST....*pyoon*
ARE YOU TRYING TO RACE?!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8-Hiper18Yc

  

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Benedict the Moor
Member since Dec 06th 2011
1476 posts
Sun Oct-28-12 10:10 AM

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117. "what's the protection on the picks?"
In response to Reply # 0
Sun Oct-28-12 10:14 AM by Benedict the Moor

  

          

cuz BOTH teams could easily be lottery-bound.

if even one pick is unprotected, this is a HUGE win for okc. even though lamb is some shit.

◦◦◦
http://oi40.tinypic.com/2enp550.jpg
http://i.minus.com/iQBdCzZIftHZ2.gif

  

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themaddfapper
Member since Mar 09th 2010
7558 posts
Sun Oct-28-12 10:22 AM

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124. "toronto is 1-3, and 14-30 protected. dunno about dallas' pick"
In response to Reply # 117


  

          

  

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Benedict the Moor
Member since Dec 06th 2011
1476 posts
Sun Oct-28-12 10:23 AM

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127. "wtf? 14-30? i've never even heard of that"
In response to Reply # 124
Sun Oct-28-12 10:24 AM by Benedict the Moor

  

          

oh well, toronto will be right in that 5-12 range anyway... this trade all depends on how those picks pan out.

◦◦◦
http://oi40.tinypic.com/2enp550.jpg
http://i.minus.com/iQBdCzZIftHZ2.gif

  

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ShawndmeSlanted
Member since Oct 30th 2004
42971 posts
Sun Oct-28-12 11:23 AM

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141. "first time it was done"
In response to Reply # 127


  

          

---
"though time has passed, im still the future" (c) black thought

  

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Guinness
Charter member
26270 posts
Sun Oct-28-12 10:55 AM

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137. "Where are the fucking idiots who said Harden wouldn't get a max deal?"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

  

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Frank Longo
Member since Nov 18th 2003
84809 posts
Sun Oct-28-12 10:20 PM

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187. "For a moment there, I was one of these fucking idiots."
In response to Reply # 137
Sun Oct-28-12 10:21 PM by Frank Longo

  

          

It's been pretty amazing to watch Harden go from underrated to overrated to underrated to overrated to underrated by the public in the span of maybe eight months.

I got too caught up in the play of one Finals. It's easy to forget when you watch guys so young play together in the limelight so often just how young they are and how much room they still have to grow. Every time I see Russy's age, I'm blown away.

So yeah. I cop to previous idiotic statements post-Finals, though I think I backed off of them pretty quickly once various trade rumors started floating out there, as none of them truly effectively replaced Harden, Finals performance be damned.

And yeah... while I love Jeremy Lamb, he's not a replacement for Harden and what he brings to the table. Great move for Houston, at least on the surface. Hardee's a big upgrade from Martin.

For beer lovers: http://thebeertravelguide.com
For movie lovers: http://russellhainline.com

  

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DolphinTeef
Member since Oct 25th 2009
7027 posts
Sun Oct-28-12 11:00 AM

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138. "Harden could breakout like Agent Zero"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

  

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ConcreteCharlie
Member since Nov 21st 2002
71344 posts
Sun Oct-28-12 03:37 PM

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160. "rockets are praying, he will certainly get the FGAs"
In response to Reply # 138


  

          

nm

And you will know MY JACKET IS GOLD when I lay my vengeance upon thee.

  

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JAESCOTT777
Member since Feb 18th 2006
28484 posts
Sun Oct-28-12 05:59 PM

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172. "Or he can breakDOWN like agent zero"
In response to Reply # 138


  

          

  

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ShawndmeSlanted
Member since Oct 30th 2004
42971 posts
Sun Oct-28-12 02:37 PM

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150. "Hardens introduction at previously scheuled open practice today"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          


Harden Being Greeted
http://www.nba.com/rockets/video/201...005MOV-2262951
Interview w/ James Harden
http://www.nba.com/rockets/video/201...006MOV-2262949

---
"though time has passed, im still the future" (c) black thought

  

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Nodima
Member since Jul 30th 2008
14591 posts
Sun Oct-28-12 02:39 PM

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151. "Harden says he'll sign before season starts if possible"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

we'll see what happens with that.

http://espn.go.com/nba/story/_/id/8564589/james-harden-expects-sign-long-term-deal-houston-rockets


"It happened so fast, it happened very fast," Harden said. "But this is the position I'm in in now. Just have to make the best out of it. I'm with Houston now. I just have to come in here and play hard and win games."

Thunder general manager Sam Presti said Houston was able to offer Harden a contract that Oklahoma City could not.

"Quite honestly, the value of the trade was greater based on the fact that the Rockets could offer him the contract that he was seeking," Presti said. "By doing it when we did it, it allowed the Rockets to secure -- or I believe it will allow the Rockets to secure him and James will get the contract that he was seeking. And because of that, we were able to capitalize on the trade and probably get a little bit more than we would have if we would have waited."

The Rockets nabbed Harden on the night before holding a public practice at the Toyota Center. An hour before the practice started, fans peered into the shaded, street-level glass windows to catch a glimpse of the new arrival on the Rockets' practice court.

The 23-year-old Harden says he'll have to adjust to a rebuilding team after playing for a contender in Oklahoma City.

"I would love to Thank Oklahoma City for 3 amazing years!" Harden tweeted Sunday. "Teammates and Fans were thee best. The love will always be there. Thanks Again."

The acquisition of Harden completes an offseason overhaul for the Rockets, who've missed the playoffs the last three seasons. Houston cut or traded every veteran player, including point guard Kyle Lowry, backup Goran Dragic, shooting guard Courtney Lee and popular forward Luis Scola.

The Thunder, meanwhile, are one of the favorites to win the Western Conference after losing to Miami in last year's NBA Finals.

"This is definitely different," Harden said. "But it's something that we have to learn to deal with. This is a business and everything happens for a reason. I'm going to just to play hard, try to play hard and do whatever it takes to win."


~~~~~~~~~
"This is the streets, and I am the trap." © Jay Bilas
"I don't read pages of rap lyrics, I listen to rap music." © Bombastic
http://www.popmatters.com/pm/archive/contributor/517
Hip Hop Handbook: http://tinyurl.com/ll4kzz

  

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southphillyman
Member since Oct 22nd 2003
90059 posts
Sun Oct-28-12 03:32 PM

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156. "he sounds a lil salty like he didn't see it coming. i wonder if the thun..."
In response to Reply # 151


  

          

were actively working with the rockets (on the low) while they negotiated with Harden and his agent over the last couple of days

~~~~~~

  

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ConcreteCharlie
Member since Nov 21st 2002
71344 posts
Sun Oct-28-12 03:42 PM

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161. "obviously they were, deals come together over days if not weeks"
In response to Reply # 156


  

          

nm

And you will know MY JACKET IS GOLD when I lay my vengeance upon thee.

  

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southphillyman
Member since Oct 22nd 2003
90059 posts
Sun Oct-28-12 03:47 PM

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162. "so why even have the meeting? it was obvious what harden wanted"
In response to Reply # 161
Sun Oct-28-12 03:48 PM by southphillyman

  

          

harden has to be looking at the situation like he got dicked
is there a reason why ibaka was negotiated with FIRST?
i'm wondering if signing harden was that big a priority for them or if they were just stalling until a GM contacted them with a package they liked

~~~~~~

  

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heyo
Member since Dec 17th 2011
521 posts
Sun Oct-28-12 04:05 PM

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163. "they were prolly hoping he had a change of heart"
In response to Reply # 162


          

but with the season approaching they couldnt wait any more without having to deal with the "will they, wont they?" bs

.

but keep doin your thang

  

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ThaTruth
Charter member
95104 posts
Sun Oct-28-12 04:36 PM

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165. "Harden basically walked over $6mil, it ain't about the money, he's tired..."
In response to Reply # 162


          

of being the#3 guy and wants to be a #1. You can never underestimate how big these dudes egos are.

________________________________________
"Stay out the dark, cause if I catch you when the sun is down..."
https://youtu.be/eaaTxVRG06c?t=89

  

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CherNic
Member since Aug 18th 2005
37156 posts
Sun Oct-28-12 04:39 PM

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167. "he dont wanna be no damn #1 player"
In response to Reply # 165


  

          

  

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kwemos
Member since Mar 05th 2005
748 posts
Sun Oct-28-12 05:27 PM

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170. "RE: he dont wanna be no damn #1 player"
In response to Reply # 167


  

          

Yea it's obvious it was about the money. If OKC would have given him the max he would have been more than happy to be #3.

  

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ThaTruth
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175. "The max was 60, OKC's last offer was 54, he left a contender to go to..."
In response to Reply # 170


          

lottery team over $6mil? I doubt it

________________________________________
"Stay out the dark, cause if I catch you when the sun is down..."
https://youtu.be/eaaTxVRG06c?t=89

  

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kwemos
Member since Mar 05th 2005
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Sun Oct-28-12 06:59 PM

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177. "RE: The max was 60, OKC's last offer was 54, he left a contender to go t..."
In response to Reply # 175


  

          

The way it was reported last night is that the extra year Houston can offer him means he'll make 20 million more I believe. It was about the money.

  

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ShawndmeSlanted
Member since Oct 30th 2004
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Sun Oct-28-12 07:15 PM

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178. "Like Bomani jones was saying "
In response to Reply # 177


  

          

Funny how everyone wants to act like a couple million ain't shit when he coulda gotten 54. Any of y'all ever had a54 million contract and 6 million to turn down?

All this talk about athlets going broke yet people hitting on them getting money.

Let that shit cook.

Aside from the extra year--the taxes--or lack of them = a lot more money.

---
"though time has passed, im still the future" (c) black thought

  

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Johnny
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179. "RE: Like Bomani jones was saying "
In response to Reply # 178


          

> Any of y'all ever had a54
>million contract and 6 million to turn down?
>

no but i'd take 54 and a chance to win it all every year > 60 and lottery team every year

  

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Binlahab
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180. "6M is change your life money, dude."
In response to Reply # 175


  

          

i want ALLLL da money, dont leave a penny in potential income on the table

  

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ThaTruth
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181. "to me and you yeah but not when you're talking the difference between..."
In response to Reply # 180


          

$54 mil and $60mil, it could be 100% percent about the money but I think being the man on his own team instead of playing 3rd fiddle to ZD and Russ was a factor also.

Then again it could be a case like Ariza where the agent had Harden thinking OKC would blink and they didnt.

________________________________________
"Stay out the dark, cause if I catch you when the sun is down..."
https://youtu.be/eaaTxVRG06c?t=89

  

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Guinness
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182. "FOH"
In response to Reply # 181


  

          

why is it about harden being greedy here? it was OKC that decided they weren't willing to give him market value. the absurdly wealthy owners of an NBA team decided that they would rather rip apart an incredible nucleus than pay luxury tax.

and as i said in another post, they MOVED THE FRIGGING TEAM to that small market.

  

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ThaTruth
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183. "Harden made a business decision, OKC made a business decision..."
In response to Reply # 182


          

I think OKC will come out better in the long run.

________________________________________
"Stay out the dark, cause if I catch you when the sun is down..."
https://youtu.be/eaaTxVRG06c?t=89

  

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Guinness
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185. "not comparable"
In response to Reply # 183
Sun Oct-28-12 10:18 PM by Guinness

  

          

harden is an individual. they're a company worth hundreds of millions of dollars. even if you're in the romney camp that "corporations are individuals," you've been all over this post talking about how harden "walked away" for $6M. dog, he was traded.

anyway, it's a poor trade for OKC. harden's emergence coincided with their rise to the finals, and they let their second-best player go for an ensemble that won't make them better in a season when they had a legitimate shot at a chip. i'm skeptical they have a chance of getting out of the west now. and cole aldrich might end up a decent bench contributor, too.

  

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ThaTruth
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189. "OKC couldnt afford to give out all those max deals, they still have to....."
In response to Reply # 185


          

maintain flexibility to sign pieces to put around those guys, people are not going to take the minimum to go to Oklahoma City like they do in Miami.

________________________________________
"Stay out the dark, cause if I catch you when the sun is down..."
https://youtu.be/eaaTxVRG06c?t=89

  

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southphillyman
Member since Oct 22nd 2003
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Sun Oct-28-12 10:18 PM

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186. "market value? how much did lou williams get this offseason?"
In response to Reply # 182


  

          

is harden worth double that?
he's more efficient but might actually be worse defensively
54 mil was a fair offer

~~~~~~

  

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Guinness
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188. "lol wut"
In response to Reply # 186


  

          

he was a top-five offensive player in the NBA last year and 24 years old. you're suggesting he should be paid less than eric gordon and roy hibbert? like, really?

  

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southphillyman
Member since Oct 22nd 2003
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191. "top 5 in what categories? all i see is true shooting % "
In response to Reply # 188
Sun Oct-28-12 10:42 PM by southphillyman

  

          

how many minutes are you sorting by? lol
he won the 6th man of the year award and he's good in that role
but 6th men don't get max contracts
is he going put up 20 7 and 7 now with 10 more minutes a night?
he was already getting over 30 minutes and his production wasn't THAT much better than lou williams who was getting less minutes than him and shot a worse %

(and eric gordon had higher USG% getting similar minutes in the couple games he played since you just throwing random names out there)

~~~~~~

  

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Guinness
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195. "huh?"
In response to Reply # 191


  

          

8th in free throws
12th in threes
2nd in TS%
2nd in EFG%
3rd in offensive rating
3rd in offensive win shares
6th in WS
4th in WS/48

he's an absolute beast on offense. even if his efficiency dips due to more usage and being the focus of defenses, he'll still be really, really good. his defense is suspect though.

  

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southphillyman
Member since Oct 22nd 2003
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Mon Oct-29-12 12:44 AM

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197. "wat"
In response to Reply # 195
Mon Oct-29-12 12:46 AM by southphillyman

  

          

>8th in free throws
>12th in threes
>2nd in TS%
>2nd in EFG%
>3rd in offensive rating
>3rd in offensive win shares
>6th in WS
>4th in WS/48
>
>he's an absolute beast on offense. even if his efficiency dips
>due to more usage and being the focus of defenses, he'll still
>be really, really good. his defense is suspect though.


so basically none of this will be relevant this year when he goes back to shooting 44% from the floor?
k
surely you don't think he'll shoot almost 50% from the 2 and 40% from three this year.....cause that's basically what ALL those offensive numbers hinged on
and lol @ listing redundant stats (ts/efg) and "offensive rating"
players with offensive rating higher than lebron: tyson chandler, mike dunleavy, ryan anderson, deandre jordan

~~~~~~

  

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Guinness
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200. "what numbers do you even want?"
In response to Reply # 197


  

          

it's blindingly obvious that he was among the best offensive players in the league last year. it's not debatable. here are the guards who were in the top 20 in WS last season.

(2) chris paul
(6) james harden
(13) westbrook
(16) wade

THAT'S IT.

  

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celery77
Member since Aug 04th 2005
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Mon Oct-29-12 12:36 PM

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231. "am I wrong for thinking Kev Martin was an advanced metric darling, too?"
In response to Reply # 200


  

          

I thought that was part of the whole story about why Morey made the move for Kevin Martin in the first place, because his advanced efficiency #s were quietly some of the best in the NBA.

couldn't this just be another instance where advanced metrics show a value in a player that might be overstated when that player is really given the reins to a team?

___________

HOPE!
https://vine.co/v/i7JjIBL3Qix
https://vine.co/v/i7JtqEFwxDu

  

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Guinness
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249. "say what?"
In response to Reply # 231
Mon Oct-29-12 02:58 PM by Guinness

  

          

kevin martin was a highly effective scorer two years ago in houston (TS% of .60). he slumped last year, for whatever reason. but there's no truth to this "given the reigns" notion, considering martin was never supposed to be anything besides an efficient perimeter scorer.

  

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Bombastic
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241. "oh Harden's efficiency numbers are to be taken with a grain of salt"
In response to Reply # 200


  

          

he's the third option & plays a lot against second units.

I'll wait to see what he does where he has to carry the load before I start calling him one of the league's best offensive players (or even better than Westbrook).

  

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Guinness
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286. "BOZO"
In response to Reply # 197


  

          

  

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ThaTruth
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174. "90% of the dudes in the NBA want to be a #1 player and in their mind..."
In response to Reply # 167


          

could be if given the opportunity

________________________________________
"Stay out the dark, cause if I catch you when the sun is down..."
https://youtu.be/eaaTxVRG06c?t=89

  

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Nodima
Member since Jul 30th 2008
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Sun Oct-28-12 04:22 PM

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164. "interesting to me is how open Presti seems to a conference foe reupping ..."
In response to Reply # 156


  

          

like, he said he HOPES the Rockets can give Harden what he wants

that might be genuine love, since Presti drafted him and wants him to do well

but at the same time, seems fishy


~~~~~~~~~
"This is the streets, and I am the trap." © Jay Bilas
"I don't read pages of rap lyrics, I listen to rap music." © Bombastic
http://www.popmatters.com/pm/archive/contributor/517
Hip Hop Handbook: http://tinyurl.com/ll4kzz

  

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ThaTruth
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166. "Houston is not going to be a threat to OKC anytime soon, lol"
In response to Reply # 164


          

________________________________________
"Stay out the dark, cause if I catch you when the sun is down..."
https://youtu.be/eaaTxVRG06c?t=89

  

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Guinness
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190. "disagree. "
In response to Reply # 166


  

          

harden potentially gives the rox a star, which is what you really need to attract top talent in free agency. he was on the olympic team and played with upcoming FAgents like iggy and CP3. they're going to be a young team contending for a low playoff seed with the ability to sign a max player in the offseason. they have the ability to become a tough team quickly.

  

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ThaTruth
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192. "lol, with Harden maxed out and the other contracts they have they'll..."
In response to Reply # 190


          

only have room to add ONE more max player. Do you really think Chris Paul is going there to play with Hardin and Omer Asik? Nobody is trading for that Lin contract so don't even bother bringing that up, lol

________________________________________
"Stay out the dark, cause if I catch you when the sun is down..."
https://youtu.be/eaaTxVRG06c?t=89

  

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southphillyman
Member since Oct 22nd 2003
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Sun Oct-28-12 11:28 PM

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193. "not getting out the 1st round for another 2-3 seasons "
In response to Reply # 192
Sun Oct-28-12 11:30 PM by southphillyman

  

          

and that's best case scenario
most likely the rockets will just be a mediocre team that falls anywhere from 7th to 10th in the conference and thinks losing the 1st round in 5 games is a good year

~~~~~~

  

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Guinness
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Mon Oct-29-12 12:01 AM

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194. "seriously, stop talking about stuff you don't know."
In response to Reply # 192
Mon Oct-29-12 12:11 AM by Guinness

  

          

you sound like a fool, and you make me take the time to correct your clueless ass.

http://hoopshype.com/salaries/houston.htm

guys on the books for next year:

harden $15
lin $5.2
asik $5.2
white $1.7
jones $1.5

everyone else is a team option or expiring.

do i think they'll sign two max guys? no. but they have the chance to add a bunch of talent, whether by free agency or trade.

  

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ThaTruth
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198. "Yeah, free agents will be lining up to join that "core""
In response to Reply # 194


          

________________________________________
"Stay out the dark, cause if I catch you when the sun is down..."
https://youtu.be/eaaTxVRG06c?t=89

  

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southphillyman
Member since Oct 22nd 2003
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Mon Oct-29-12 01:12 AM

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199. "the "core" as you put it will take up damn near 80% of the cap in 14/15"
In response to Reply # 194


  

          



>everyone else is a team option or expiring.

team options are most likely getting picked up

the rest of the roster will probably be players on rookie contracts or shitball free agents on 1 or 2 yr deals so they should be aight lux tax wise
but they won't be good

> no. but they have the
>chance to add a bunch of talent, whether by free agency or
>trade.
>


who on the team right now ,outside of the "core", has trade value?
even if you combine parsons, jones, and white salaries aren't going be high enough to return anything significant
what hypothetical free agents are going take the MLE from houston over some other better team?
you talking about some cj watson type players or something? lol.

~~~~~~

  

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Guinness
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201. "that's two years away."
In response to Reply # 199
Mon Oct-29-12 01:46 AM by Guinness

  

          

it has literally zero impact on the rox' ability to acquire players now or next season.

  

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southphillyman
Member since Oct 22nd 2003
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Mon Oct-29-12 08:22 AM

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203. "" shitball free agents on 1 or 2 yr deals""
In response to Reply # 201


  

          

you understand good players usually get LONG contracts right
poison pill deals are still prohibitive

~~~~~~

  

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thejerseytornado
Member since Dec 24th 2005
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Mon Oct-29-12 11:23 AM

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213. "if you sign the superstar, you trade Asik/Lin/whomever"
In response to Reply # 203


  

          

for pennies on the dollar because you now have TWO SUPERSTARS ON YOUR TEAM.

-----------
It's only funny till someone gets mad. Then it's hilarious.

  

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ThaTruth
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215. "nobody's going to trade for those poison pill contracts"
In response to Reply # 213


          

________________________________________
"Stay out the dark, cause if I catch you when the sun is down..."
https://youtu.be/eaaTxVRG06c?t=89

  

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thejerseytornado
Member since Dec 24th 2005
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Mon Oct-29-12 12:55 PM

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235. "lol, bullshit."
In response to Reply # 215


  

          

one year expiring contract on a good player when you struck out in free agency and are choosing between that one overpriced year of Jeremy Lin or overpaying a mediocre free agent to use your money? and all the rockets want is 2nd round picks?

every contract is tradeable if you don't care about getting value back.

-----------
It's only funny till someone gets mad. Then it's hilarious.

  

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southphillyman
Member since Oct 22nd 2003
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Mon Oct-29-12 12:53 PM

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234. "Asik/Lin are part of the long term "core" according to him though"
In response to Reply # 213


  

          

but yea that's the only way it works is if you move one of those dudes
the possibility of that happening is kind of a reach to me though

~~~~~~

  

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heyo
Member since Dec 17th 2011
521 posts
Mon Oct-29-12 12:52 PM

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233. "i think lin and asik's cap hits will both be 8.3 mil each year"
In response to Reply # 194


          

rather than their actual salary
which hurts for 2 years but is great for leaving them a little more flexibility in year 3

.

but keep doin your thang

  

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ShawndmeSlanted
Member since Oct 30th 2004
42971 posts
Mon Oct-29-12 02:52 PM

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248. "Yes this is true..often a misconception"
In response to Reply # 233


  

          

---
"though time has passed, im still the future" (c) black thought

  

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auragin_boi
Member since Aug 01st 2003
20871 posts
Mon Oct-29-12 08:16 AM

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202. "RE: he sounds a lil salty like he didn't see it coming. i wonder if the ..."
In response to Reply # 156


  

          

I read another article yesterday morning that explained that Harden was told if they couldn't reach an agreement, he'd be traded. OKC just didn't want to waste time with it. Jeff Green was the reference point and if Ibaka and Wessy did it, Harden couldn't have expected to be more of a priority.

http://espn.go.com/nba/story/_/id/8563645/oklahoma-city-thunder-stay-true-their-philosophy-trading-james-harden

OKC Thunder stay true to themselvesWhat were the Thunder thinking by trading James Harden? Here's some insight.

The Oklahoma City Thunder have achieved a remarkable amount of success by establishing and sticking to a few central beliefs. It was that fidelity to those principles that led them to trade James Harden because of a contractual dispute.

According to sources with knowledge of the team's thinking, the Thunder believe their players will ultimately support the controversial decision to send Harden to the Houston Rockets in a blockbuster deal that breaks up the core that reached the NBA Finals last season.

The Thunder maintain a philosophy that the individual sacrifices for the whole. In this case, that would have meant Harden agreeing to accept less than the maximum amount for a four-year extension, which was $60 million. Reportedly the Thunder's final offer was in the range of $55 million for four years.

Over the past few days, as extension talks reached a climax ahead of the Oct. 31 deadline, sources said, Thunder GM Sam Presti informed Harden that if he was not willing to accept a franchise-favorable contract, such as the kind that Serge Ibaka accepted recently, after other Thunder players had done likewise, then Harden would be traded. This was made clear in discussions with Harden and his agent Rob Pelinka, sources said.

During the contract talks that have been ongoing since July, Presti provided a reference point -- some might call it a threat ... regarding the discussions: the Jeff Green negotiations from a couple of seasons ago. That's when the Thunder were unable to get a contract extension done with the popular forward and traded him, in a surprising move, to get assets and prevent Green from getting to free agency the following summer. Harden would've been headed for the same situation if he had not agreed to an extension by Wednesday.

The Thunder, it was said during the talks, cannot afford to let players get to free agency, with the additional cost and risk involved. From the player's perspective, this is rigid. From Presti's perspective, it was the way to do business in a franchise with more limited resources than rivals and in a market where free agents are often overpaid.

Presti was attempting to force through a contract that would help soften the blow of the increased luxury tax that starts in the 2013-14 season, when Harden's new deal would've kicked in.

Over the past several years Ibaka, Russell Westbrook, and Nick Collison have structured new contracts in ways that would ease the Thunder's coming tax burden. In each case, the player accepted a deal for less than his estimated market value had he waited for free agency. Collectively these moves are saving the Thunder millions in salary and potentially tens of millions when accounting for future tax payments. That money, in theory, is used to sign their talented teammates.

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In addition Kevin Durant and Kendrick Perkins signed extensions without the "opt-out" clauses seen in many contracts.

All five players bypassed free agency. This, Presti apparently sold to the players, would help the Thunder remain to remain contenders for the foreseeable future.

The Thunder hoped, and obviously expected, that Harden would follow suit. On the court, he had been willing to accept a sixth-man role for the good of the team, and both parties benefited. Harden was named Sixth Man of the Year and the Thunder reached the NBA Finals last season.

In the end, sources said, the Thunder had to make a decision based on risk: not just the financial and basketball risk that came with allowing Harden to become a free agent, but also the risk of deviating from their philosophy, and what that would mean for the players who had been willing to follow it in the past.

What Presti and Harden decided is clear. Less clear are the consequences on the court.

____________

  

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realityrap
Member since Sep 21st 2005
8405 posts
Mon Oct-29-12 08:32 AM

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204. "That nigga kyrie will not average 10 assists "
In response to Reply # 202


  

          

  

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Tiger Woods
Member since Feb 15th 2004
17402 posts
Mon Oct-29-12 08:57 AM

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205. "I just hate this idea that business is paramount to winning"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

especially when you're as close as they were. There's no way this helps OKC in the short term, especially when you're considering how close they were to winning it all last year.

  

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ThaTruth
Charter member
95104 posts
Mon Oct-29-12 09:11 AM

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206. "Part of the reason they DIDN'T win was because Harden played like..."
In response to Reply # 205


          

shit in the Finals but they're suppose to turn around and throw a max contract at him just because?

________________________________________
"Stay out the dark, cause if I catch you when the sun is down..."
https://youtu.be/eaaTxVRG06c?t=89

  

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LBs Finest
Member since Sep 28th 2005
19844 posts
Mon Oct-29-12 02:35 PM

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244. "you do realize Harden is 23 right?"
In response to Reply # 206


  

          

_________________________

  

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BrooklynWHAT
Member since Jun 15th 2007
82311 posts
Mon Oct-29-12 09:46 AM

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207. "its so disappointing."
In response to Reply # 205


  

          

<--- Big Baller World Order

  

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ConcreteCharlie
Member since Nov 21st 2002
71344 posts
Mon Oct-29-12 10:45 AM

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209. "that critique applies to OKC, not Harden"
In response to Reply # 205


  

          

they didn't get a similar talent back but they were not really maximizing his ability anyway. they got guys who can pitch in and fill the role for less money plus they get deeper and diversified assets. they are still "close," IMO they should still be considered favorites in the West with all due respect to the Lakers, Spurs, whomever.

meanwhile harden has gone from a clear contender to an oddly shaped squad with nothing clear about it.

And you will know MY JACKET IS GOLD when I lay my vengeance upon thee.

  

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Guinness
Charter member
26270 posts
Mon Oct-29-12 12:26 PM

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229. "OKC is not the favorite anymore."
In response to Reply # 209


  

          

there's always the chance that durant will go bananas and ibaka makes a leap to become an elite big, but they just lost their second-best player and the guy whose improvement pushed them into contender status.

lakers are the clear favorite at this point, and i'm no longer convinced OKC makes it by the spurs, denver or clippers. the west is too tough to be losing such a hugely important player.

  

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Bombastic
Charter member
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Mon Oct-29-12 02:08 PM

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242. "they weren't the favorite with Harden"
In response to Reply # 229


  

          

>there's always the chance that durant will go bananas and
>ibaka makes a leap to become an elite big, but they just lost
>their second-best player and the guy whose improvement pushed
>them into contender status.
>
>lakers are the clear favorite at this point, and i'm no longer
>convinced OKC makes it by the spurs, denver or clippers. the
>west is too tough to be losing such a hugely important
>player.

  

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Guinness
Charter member
26270 posts
Mon Oct-29-12 04:20 PM

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252. "for the west?"
In response to Reply # 242


  

          

i think it was a toss up between them and LAL. at any rate, it's not anymore.

  

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Bombastic
Charter member
88863 posts
Mon Oct-29-12 04:29 PM

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253. "as soon as Dwight landed it's been either his back, Mike Brown"
In response to Reply # 252


  

          

or Kobe chucking that could keep the Lakers out of the finals from where I sit & I thought all three could be minimized enough that they'd overcome it as long as they were *relatively* healthy come playoff time.

  

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Guinness
Charter member
26270 posts
Wed Oct-31-12 02:00 PM

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269. "BOW DOWN TO THE NUGS"
In response to Reply # 253
Wed Oct-31-12 02:01 PM by Guinness

  

          

join this marvelous anti-melo agenda while watching steve nash attempt to guard ty lawson and kobe flinging up garbage against iggy.

  

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celery77
Member since Aug 04th 2005
25307 posts
Mon Oct-29-12 11:31 AM

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214. "it's gonna be fun watching Harden get exposed in Houston"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

Presti's no fool -- he sold as high as possible on his Harden asset, cuz he knows in the long run Harden's performance will help alleviate his regrets.

HAVE to be suspicious of a guy that showed his first extended run of NBA quality basketball (note: NOT quality NBA basketball -- last year was actually the first time he finally confirmed himself as an NBA player, much less an NBA star) in his contract year, then disappears on the big stage much, much to his team's detriment, then quibbles over a few million spread out over years instead of just re-upping at his actual value.

so Presti struck while the iron is hot and it kills me to admit, but the OKC front office is the smartest in the NBA right now.

___________

HOPE!
https://vine.co/v/i7JjIBL3Qix
https://vine.co/v/i7JtqEFwxDu

  

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ShawndmeSlanted
Member since Oct 30th 2004
42971 posts
Mon Oct-29-12 12:06 PM

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218. "Always look forward to your smart/dumb analysis"
In response to Reply # 214


  

          

The super well read kid in class who knows a lot of facts but is on the autism spectrum.

---
"though time has passed, im still the future" (c) black thought

  

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Cold Truth
Member since Jan 28th 2004
42659 posts
Mon Oct-29-12 12:08 PM

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219. "Damn that was harsh"
In response to Reply # 218


  

          

  

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Cenario
Member since Aug 24th 2005
57485 posts
Mon Oct-29-12 12:09 PM

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220. "lololol damn."
In response to Reply # 218


  

          

-The Knicks’ coaching search still includes a lone frontrunner, Kurt Rambis, whose qualifications for the position include a strong relationship with Jackson and a willingness to take the job.

  

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ShawndmeSlanted
Member since Oct 30th 2004
42971 posts
Mon Oct-29-12 12:14 PM

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222. "I miss my boo in Survivor"
In response to Reply # 220


  

          

Why did you leave again Cel? I'm guessing you had to have stepped down and out... We didn't vote you out.

---
"though time has passed, im still the future" (c) black thought

  

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Cenario
Member since Aug 24th 2005
57485 posts
Mon Oct-29-12 12:18 PM

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223. "i voted him in my division. he got scared, quit."
In response to Reply # 222


  

          

He knew the hubie was the only division he'd have a chance in.

-The Knicks’ coaching search still includes a lone frontrunner, Kurt Rambis, whose qualifications for the position include a strong relationship with Jackson and a willingness to take the job.

  

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ShawndmeSlanted
Member since Oct 30th 2004
42971 posts
Mon Oct-29-12 12:19 PM

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224. "Lol but its not like he did well in his old division"
In response to Reply # 223


  

          

---
"though time has passed, im still the future" (c) black thought

  

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celery77
Member since Aug 04th 2005
25307 posts
Mon Oct-29-12 12:24 PM

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227. "didn't have time/interest to warrant my spot, y'all shouldn't miss me"
In response to Reply # 222


  

          

it's not BS when I say on here that I was watching 80-100 regular season NBA games a year. I had actual ideas about bench units across the league then (for better or worse).

but I stopped doing that, maybe watched 10 games, if that, last year, so I left my spot for the next wonk that deserves it.

___________

HOPE!
https://vine.co/v/i7JjIBL3Qix
https://vine.co/v/i7JtqEFwxDu

  

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celery77
Member since Aug 04th 2005
25307 posts
Mon Oct-29-12 12:21 PM

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225. "Harden sucks, I still refuse to cave on that (possible) L"
In response to Reply # 218


  

          

I didn't like him for the first year and a half when that was easy to do, and I still didn't like him when all he was doing was torching bench units during the year when teams didn't even practice.

and he's not going to be as effective in Houston without Durant + Westbrook et. al. to protect him. if I'm wrong, I'm wrong, but the worst thing that can happen to that kid right now is getting paid, because he won't be as good a bball player after it happens (or when he's a starter and not a bench star).

___________

HOPE!
https://vine.co/v/i7JjIBL3Qix
https://vine.co/v/i7JtqEFwxDu

  

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Crash Bandacoot
Member since May 13th 2003
9997 posts
Mon Oct-29-12 07:38 PM

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257. "not cool"
In response to Reply # 218


          

asd is not a joke


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

"It is better to be silent and thought a fool than to open your mouth and remove all doubt"

  

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LegacyNS
Member since Jan 16th 2004
37984 posts
Tue Oct-30-12 02:57 PM

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265. "wowzers"
In response to Reply # 218


  

          


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
<---- 5....
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dlgiritpmfo

=======================================
Occupy Big Government..

Fannie, Freddie dole out big bonuses
http://www.politico.com/news/stories/1011/67292.html

  

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Cenario
Member since Aug 24th 2005
57485 posts
Mon Oct-29-12 12:03 PM

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217. "is it possible that harden had a bad series against a great defensive te..."
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

As opposed to shrinking back in a big moment or being exposed, or whatever other tired cliche gets thrown out there.

Dude had a bad series, it doesnet take away from what he did in 80+ other games last season.

-The Knicks’ coaching search still includes a lone frontrunner, Kurt Rambis, whose qualifications for the position include a strong relationship with Jackson and a willingness to take the job.

  

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celery77
Member since Aug 04th 2005
25307 posts
Mon Oct-29-12 12:27 PM

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230. "he did what he did against bench units that literally weren't practicing"
In response to Reply # 217


  

          

admittedly, anything out of one Finals is making a mountain out of a mole hill (just like Lebron the year before, who learned his lesson and moved on).

the main reason I distrust his performance last year is cuz it was bench units who weren't practicing due to the condensed schedule. things won't be so easy when he's a starter in Houston playing against teams properly prepped for him. this year will tell us more about Harden the player than anything that happened to him in OKC.

___________

HOPE!
https://vine.co/v/i7JjIBL3Qix
https://vine.co/v/i7JtqEFwxDu

  

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Cenario
Member since Aug 24th 2005
57485 posts
Mon Oct-29-12 12:43 PM

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232. "lol was he the only player playing against bench units that werent"
In response to Reply # 230


  

          

Practicing??

And what about the 4th qtr when he was getting to the line at will?

Bench units?

Cmon I expect better celery, even from you.

-The Knicks’ coaching search still includes a lone frontrunner, Kurt Rambis, whose qualifications for the position include a strong relationship with Jackson and a willingness to take the job.

  

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celery77
Member since Aug 04th 2005
25307 posts
Mon Oct-29-12 02:49 PM

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246. "so he showed you enough against weak comp to warrant franchise status?"
In response to Reply # 232


  

          

because that's what we're talking about when we're talking about the contract he's about to get from the Rockets. this isn't just "is James Harden a good player?" this is "is James Harden a star to build a whole team around?" because if you're giving out the longest term possible MAX deal, that's what you're talking about.

now what OKC offered him? that was "good player" money, as it should be -- smart on their part. they looked at what they knew about James Harden and said "we'll pay you like a good player, cuz you are, but not necessarily give you the keys to the gym." but Harden turned that down, and the Rockets appeared as the new suitor.

so yeah, I'm sure Harden will continue to be a good player. but if the Rockets think he's going to be anything more than a upper-middle class man's Danilo Gallinari, I think they're in for a a long 5 yrs and $80M or whatever it is.

___________

HOPE!
https://vine.co/v/i7JjIBL3Qix
https://vine.co/v/i7JtqEFwxDu

  

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Guinness
Charter member
26270 posts
Mon Oct-29-12 02:52 PM

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247. "lol wut"
In response to Reply # 230


  

          

this might be the craziest argument i've heard. he played 30 minutes a game and was always on the floor in the fourth quarter. he was fantastic for the playoffs until running into bron/wade.

i'm not convinced he's going to be a superstar, but i'm arguing that his numbers from last year say that he was one last season.

  

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celery77
Member since Aug 04th 2005
25307 posts
Mon Oct-29-12 03:05 PM

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250. "I also watched Erick Dampier's entire contract year, color me skeptical"
In response to Reply # 247


  

          

>i'm not convinced he's going to be a superstar, but i'm
>arguing that his numbers from last year say that he was one
>last season.

and that's fine. I actually wouldn't argue with that.

but that's why I said he'd get "exposed" in Houston, because his superstar #s that you like are drawn almost exclusively from last season, and I just pointed out entirely valid reasons why they might be bad stats.

so let him replicate that trick again this year and I'll eat my crow, but my own personal eye test tells me Harden will struggle more in Houston than he and Daryl Morey might think right now.

___________

HOPE!
https://vine.co/v/i7JjIBL3Qix
https://vine.co/v/i7JtqEFwxDu

  

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celery77
Member since Aug 04th 2005
25307 posts
Mon Oct-29-12 03:08 PM

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251. "+ I don't think OKC will struggle to replace Harden's production n/m"
In response to Reply # 247


  

          

___________

HOPE!
https://vine.co/v/i7JjIBL3Qix
https://vine.co/v/i7JtqEFwxDu

  

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Guinness
Charter member
26270 posts
Tue Oct-30-12 10:12 AM

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259. "well, they will."
In response to Reply # 251


  

          

the reason they had such a dominant offense was because they shot tons of FTs and made quite of few threes. that's precisely what harden does. they most certainly were not a great offensive team because of westbrook's shitty FG% and turnovers.

  

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celery77
Member since Aug 04th 2005
25307 posts
Tue Oct-30-12 10:35 AM

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260. "they also had a spacing problem that Kevin Martin directly addresses"
In response to Reply # 259


  

          

Kevin Martin should make life easier for Westbrook and Durant by being a one of the best NBA knockdown shooters from any spot on the floor outside the key, which OKC hasn't had, and if need be Martin can help the 2nd unit offense by running off screens to get the defense moving and hopefully still open up gaps for the other four guys on the floor. no more collapsing to the key on Westbrook if it means giving Martin the space to hurt you.

but besides that, yes, they sacrifice bench unit offense, but considering today's NBA where title favorites are currently Lakers and Heat, two teams with "passable" bench units at best, perhaps the bench production loss is a bit overstated. as long as they have enough pros willing to maintain the score, not necessarily grow it, I think it's perfectly reasonable to expect the OKC starting unit to still be able to win games without the bench making runs for them.

and with their athletes, there's still no reason to think they couldn't just reinvent the bench unit as a defensive nightmare -- with guys like Sefalosha, Ibaka, Collison, Perkins -- that just frustrates other teams while Russy + KD get their rest.

and Jeremy Lamb might not suck, who knows.

either way, I just don't see this as a massive downgrade for OKC and the void that Harden leaves is being massively overstated. he had a redundant skill set and was potentially an unsettling presence with the schism between his goals and the organization's utilization of him.

OKC can still compete for a title even with his departure and anyone saying otherwise is either overvaluing Harden, undervaluing Martin, misunderstanding the importance of the bench in the current NBA, or all three of those things imo.

___________

HOPE!
https://vine.co/v/i7JjIBL3Qix
https://vine.co/v/i7JtqEFwxDu

  

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Jayson Willyams
Member since Nov 18th 2004
3258 posts
Tue Oct-30-12 10:46 AM

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261. "::sees Celery posting from Damn Good Ground, with the Double-Tap crit::"
In response to Reply # 260


  

          

__________
YARDS

  

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southphillyman
Member since Oct 22nd 2003
90059 posts
Mon Oct-29-12 12:57 PM

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236. "damn Harden played 80 games last season? now wonder he want max"
In response to Reply # 217


  

          

~~~~~~

  

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Cenario
Member since Aug 24th 2005
57485 posts
Mon Oct-29-12 01:07 PM

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