Have y'all come to peace with it and forgiven?


Or are we acting like it never happened?


o and he's Hebrew, and those are easily my favorite
whites on earth (Russians 2nd) So I'm willing to cop pleas
for him off that alone (I was at Ceder last Friday
CHILLIN, god)

But still

o and Matt Kemp off to a fast start, still play
a more valuable position, has less protection in
the lineup


I'm just curious



----------------------------

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O_E: "Acts like an asshole and posts with imperial disdain"




"I ORBITs the solar system, listenin..."

(C)Keith Murray, "

but to give a direct answer, i dont feel any way about him

n/m

----------------------------

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O_E: "Acts like an asshole and posts with imperial disdain"




"I ORBITs the solar system, listenin..."

(C)Keith Murray, "

-The Knicks’ coaching search still includes a lone frontrunner, Kurt Rambis, whose qualifications for the position include a strong relationship with Jackson and a willingness to take the job.

<--- ...watch out Mountain West?

http://i.imgur.com/vPqCzVU.jpg

is there a detroit/milwaukee rivalry I'm not aware of?

___________________

Mar-A-Lago delenda est

http://i.imgur.com/vPqCzVU.jpg

___________________

Mar-A-Lago delenda est

and to make this into a white thursday post: shall we rank the white ethnic/cultural groups in order of preference?

a starting and incomplete list (in no order):
Greek
French
Italian
English
Germans
Russians
Arabs
Jews
Spaniards
Other (list)

-----------
It's only funny till someone gets mad. Then it's hilarious.

I know, I know. Please don't link me a map with
snp frequencies or some dumb shit. That's not what
we're talking about.

Arabs are not white, though, sorry.


>and to make this into a white thursday post: shall we rank
>the white ethnic/cultural groups in order of preference?
>
>a starting and incomplete list (in no order):
>Greek
>French
>Italian
>English
>Germans
>Russians
>Arabs
>Jews
>Spaniards
>Other (list)
>
>-----------
>It's only funny till someone gets mad. Then it's hilarious.


----------------------------

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O_E: "Acts like an asshole and posts with imperial disdain"




"I ORBITs the solar system, listenin..."

(C)Keith Murray, "

(and not on some genome shit. on some long-history of being deemed part of the white race)

hated by other whites, but technically, white.

but we can leave them off. it's no big deal.
-----------
It's only funny till someone gets mad. Then it's hilarious.

>(and not on some genome shit. on some long-history of being
>deemed part of the white race)

Well, right, I mean, we can have this conversation

>hated by other whites, but technically, white.
>
>but we can leave them off. it's no big deal.
>-----------
>It's only funny till someone gets mad. Then it's hilarious.


----------------------------

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O_E: "Acts like an asshole and posts with imperial disdain"




"I ORBITs the solar system, listenin..."

(C)Keith Murray, "

___________________

Mar-A-Lago delenda est

n/m

----------------------------

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O_E: "Acts like an asshole and posts with imperial disdain"




"I ORBITs the solar system, listenin..."

(C)Keith Murray, "

i like to point out, whenever possible, how badly "race" is defined and easily changed (Hispanic is the ethnicity, but LMAO @ anyone who doesn't think white hispanics have been racialized as other)

just to point out the ludicrousness of any arguments that race isn't arbitrary and socially constructed. not really that necessary here, but you never know who is lurking, i guess.

-----------
It's only funny till someone gets mad. Then it's hilarious.

>LMAO @ anyone who doesn't think white hispanics have been
>racialized as other)

Most white hispanics I know (of) are doing a preeetttyyy
good job of assimilating

They go hard on their marrying whites and all that


----------------------------

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O_E: "Acts like an asshole and posts with imperial disdain"




"I ORBITs the solar system, listenin..."

(C)Keith Murray, "

nor is that born out in larger statistical samples. you might roll with a unique crowd (are a lot of them South American or Cuban?). maybe class background is playing a role?

hispanics, even white hispanics, intermarry whites less frequently than asians, have worse educational outcomes, and are more segregated than asians (even controlling for class). in more and more areas, hispanics are the primary "other" being racialized and policed. The recent immigration laws are good examples.

it's up for debate and the racialization is still one of a couple competing theories, but most of the good race scholars I know generally agree that "hispanic" has become a racial category in most people's minds and they're being treated as racially distinct in most fields. Which leads to the question about what does the US do with black hispanics and the answer generally seems to be: whatever we do with blacks or hispanics, and if those conflict, pick the worse of the two options and go with that*.

*which them becomes particularly bizarre in some ways because black hispanics in the US are mostly Caribbean and other Black Caribbean immigrants outperform multigenerational black peers for a variety of other reasons that somehow don't apply for Dominicans and Haitians. odd.

-----------
It's only funny till someone gets mad. Then it's hilarious.

>hispanics, even white hispanics, intermarry whites less
>frequently than asians, have worse educational outcomes, and
>are more segregated than asians (even controlling for class).
>in more and more areas, hispanics are the primary "other"
>being racialized and policed. The recent immigration laws are
>good examples.

Well, sure

You're talking about "white" Mexican and Puerto Ricans
mostly, who live together in ghettos

And a lot of it is spatial just as much as racial

White members of these groups are like white Irish,
Italians, Jews, who used to live in hoods and struggled
to assimilate for a while (underachieved academically,
were criminals and thugs, yes Gangs of New York-o)

But white hispanics are "othered" faaaar less than their
browner countrymen, so it depends on what direction you
want to measure it--are we comparing white hispanics to
their brown/black countrymen or (like you) comparing them
to asians?

Because Asians have a whole dynamic of their own, not
sure I wanna use them as a control group for assimilation


Even still:

As a whole hispanics and asians marry whites faaar more
than black folks do, much of this driven by white hispanics

So the next generation of "hispanics" in this country
will be a lot whiter than the next generation of blacks

So there is a powerful trend toward assimilation, that
can't really be denied

Another 25 years white hispanics will be like Irish and
other white ethnics

Brown/Black hispanics will be brown and black, probably
trying to marry white (like they are today) and one day
get up out of their caste...East Asian women swagged out
hard on this strategy

The future is actually going to be really fucked up
and sad racially, more segregated than ever...


>it's up for debate and the racialization is still one of a
>couple competing theories, but most of the good race scholars
>I know generally agree that "hispanic" has become a racial
>category in most people's minds and they're being treated as
>racially distinct in most fields.

Nah, not really; most scholars I know find that a lot of
the differences between "hispanic" and "black" can be
couched in fully racial terms: if you divide hispanic into
"white" and "black" their group data looks completely
different than it does when they are lumped

But this is neither here nor there, but to say they are
a racial group is missing most of the dynamic


>Which leads to the question
>about what does the US do with black hispanics and the answer
>generally seems to be: whatever we do with blacks or
>hispanics, and if those conflict, pick the worse of the two
>options and go with that*.

Haha...well put

>*which them becomes particularly bizarre in some ways because
>black hispanics in the US are mostly Caribbean and other Black
>Caribbean immigrants outperform multigenerational black peers
>for a variety of other reasons that somehow don't apply for
>Dominicans and Haitians. odd.

Haitians actually are doing quite well academically and
professionally in many settings

Dominicans is another story


----------------------------

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O_E: "Acts like an asshole and posts with imperial disdain"




"I ORBITs the solar system, listenin..."

(C)Keith Murray, "

>You're talking about "white" Mexican and Puerto Ricans
>mostly, who live together in ghettos
>
>And a lot of it is spatial just as much as racial

as has been true since emancipation more or less. one of the main ways of creating and perpetuating racial difference issegregation.

>White members of these groups are like white Irish,
>Italians, Jews, who used to live in hoods and struggled
>to assimilate for a while (underachieved academically,
>were criminals and thugs, yes Gangs of New York-o)

no. that comparison fails to hold--white ethnics assimilated *far* faster than white hispanics.

>But white hispanics are "othered" faaaar less than their
>browner countrymen, so it depends on what direction you
>want to measure it--are we comparing white hispanics to
>their brown/black countrymen or (like you) comparing them
>to asians?

both. they fit in between. white hispanics are doing better than black hispanics. white hispanics are doing worse (all this, of course, is an on average) than asians (who also have a lot of ethnic differences--Koreans and Japanese are doing well, but Southeast Asians are not in the US).

>Because Asians have a whole dynamic of their own, not
>sure I wanna use them as a control group for assimilation

no doubt. just comparing to another racial group to note that white hispanics are not even "in second" if you will.

>As a whole hispanics and asians marry whites faaar more
>than black folks do, much of this driven by white hispanics

no. most of that is driven by asians, i believe (at least rate wise, not sure once you include population size differences).

>So the next generation of "hispanics" in this country
>will be a lot whiter than the next generation of blacks

yes and no--there's a lot of continued immigration that complicates that. but hispanics have always been "whiter" than blacks, so not sure how that matters.

>So there is a powerful trend toward assimilation, that
>can't really be denied

actually, it is being denied and challenged. Peep Eduardo Bonilla-Silva's stuff (and Doug Massey's) on the latin americanization of the US in which he argues that assimilation is being stopped at a certain point. yes, it gets better for hispanics, but we're not letting them fully integrate, to oversimplify his argument. not trying to name drop, just they do better than me at explaining it.

>Another 25 years white hispanics will be like Irish and
>other white ethnics

i will take the other side of that bet. easily.

>Brown/Black hispanics will be brown and black, probably
>trying to marry white (like they are today) and one day
>get up out of their caste...East Asian women swagged out
>hard on this strategy

lol. there's a small dip in asian/white marriage. likely because asian men are on the come up finally. but yeah, this is all true.

>The future is actually going to be really fucked up
>and sad racially, more segregated than ever...

indeed. and more complicated. the recent manhattan institute study on "the end of the segregated century" manipulated the data by counting hispanic/black neighborhoods as "integrated" to prove black people aren't segregated as much any more. really sad how that can be done.


>Nah, not really; most scholars I know find that a lot of
>the differences between "hispanic" and "black" can be
>couched in fully racial terms: if you divide hispanic into
>"white" and "black" their group data looks completely
>different than it does when they are lumped

yes and no. white hispanics still are very far behind whites, but you're right about the bifurcation by race. My point is that even once you do that, white hispanics are not seeing the full benefits of whiteness and I doubt they ever do as a group.

>But this is neither here nor there, but to say they are
>a racial group is missing most of the dynamic

yes. but they are being otherized in a racial way that is more lasting than ethnic differences in the US have been. it's a complicated concept and you make an interesting point that maybe "racialization" isn't the right term, exactly.

>Haitians actually are doing quite well academically and
>professionally in many settings
>
>Dominicans is another story

word. didn't know there was a divide haitian/dominican there.

-----------
It's only funny till someone gets mad. Then it's hilarious.

At this point its mostly statistical mumbo jumbo

>as has been true since emancipation more or less. one of the
>main ways of creating and perpetuating racial difference
>issegregation.

>no. that comparison fails to hold--white ethnics assimilated
>*far* faster than white hispanics.

Alright, not sure how you can say this, for two reasons:

(a) Cuban-Americans have assimilated fast as hell, but
neither of us use want to use them because they don't fit
the standard white-ethnic paradigm

(b) White-ethnics assimilated fast because of active
social programs that they directly benefited from
that are not in place now (and will never be in place
again). You give white hispanics a New Deal and access
to housing in white neighborhoods and white people would
rather they live there than their black/brown countrymen.

This is exactly what happened in the US and would
happen again: white people *are* more comfortable with
Oscar De La Hoya, even if he's poor, moving to their
neighborhood than they are Chino XL or Hanley Ramirez

We won't really know that, again, because the programs
that give Oscar that chance aren't in place, probably
never will be.

(But it does explain why Oscar De La Hoya is/was infinitely
more popular among whites than other more indigenous boxers
who were *better*....sports can be useful for shit like this)


>both. they fit in between. white hispanics are doing better
>than black hispanics. white hispanics are doing worse (all
>this, of course, is an on average) than asians (who also have
>a lot of ethnic differences--Koreans and Japanese are doing
>well, but Southeast Asians are not in the US).

LOL--you're not speaking to a magazine. I'm one of you.

"In between" doesn't mean anything.

Poor Angolans are "in between" poor Congolese and poor
New Yorkers.

And again: I'm arguing that Asians are a poor comparison
group for *any* immigrant, not only white hispanics. I wouldn't
compare Greek assimilation to Asian assimilation either.


>no doubt. just comparing to another racial group to note that
>white hispanics are not even "in second" if you will.

Nobody is in second compared to Asians.

In fact, Asians are better at being white people than
white people at this stage (in terms of rate of seizing
education and wealth, not necessarily acceptance, etc)

>no. most of that is driven by asians, i believe (at least rate
>wise, not sure once you include population size differences).


No, a ton of Hispanics are marrying whites too. I'm not
going to link journal of sociology articles but its the
crux of George Yancey's book from 2003 (that's as academic
as I'll get in this post)


>yes and no--there's a lot of continued immigration that
>complicates that. but hispanics have always been "whiter" than
>blacks, so not sure how that matters.

Well...ok


>actually, it is being denied and challenged. Peep Eduardo
>Bonilla-Silva's stuff (and Doug Massey's) on the latin
>americanization of the US in which he argues that assimilation
>is being stopped at a certain point. yes, it gets better for
>hispanics, but we're not letting them fully integrate, to
>oversimplify his argument. not trying to name drop, just they
>do better than me at explaining it.

Well sure--just like Jews will never be as white as white
people.

That's not the point of assimilation, though.

The point/goal of assimilation is to be white enough that
you are financially independent and can do what you have to
do without actual white people interfering

Jews do that, and good for them.

Irish weren't there, but got there.

Same with Italians.

Same with Greeks.

White hispanics aren't there yet, but will be.

Their black and brown countrymen? LOL. No.


>lol. there's a small dip in asian/white marriage. likely
>because asian men are on the come up finally. but yeah, this
>is all true.

True

>indeed. and more complicated. the recent manhattan institute
>study on "the end of the segregated century" manipulated the
>data by counting hispanic/black neighborhoods as "integrated"
>to prove black people aren't segregated as much any more.
>really sad how that can be done.

bwahahahahahaha those guys are such fucking tools


>yes and no. white hispanics still are very far behind whites,
>but you're right about the bifurcation by race. My point is
>that even once you do that, white hispanics are not seeing the
>full benefits of whiteness and I doubt they ever do as a
>group.

Ok, fair point, we're barely disagreeing


>yes. but they are being otherized in a racial way that is more
>lasting than ethnic differences in the US have been. it's a
>complicated concept and you make an interesting point that
>maybe "racialization" isn't the right term, exactly.

Ok, cool

>>Haitians actually are doing quite well academically and
>>professionally in many settings
>>
>>Dominicans is another story
>
>word. didn't know there was a divide haitian/dominican there.
>
>
>-----------
>It's only funny till someone gets mad. Then it's hilarious.


----------------------------

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O_E: "Acts like an asshole and posts with imperial disdain"




"I ORBITs the solar system, listenin..."

(C)Keith Murray, "

you're just more optimistic about white hispanics' potential for assimilation than i am. that's about it.

damn, i was ready to FIGHT about it/didn't want to do my edits this afternoon. you sure you don't want to do some more aggressive baiting? please?

-----------
It's only funny till someone gets mad. Then it's hilarious.

>This is exactly what happened in the US and would
>happen again: white people *are* more comfortable with
>Oscar De La Hoya, even if he's poor, moving to their
>neighborhood than they are Chino XL or Hanley Ramirez

that's due more to the fact that Hanley's a flaming homosexual than that he's blacktino.

___________________

Mar-A-Lago delenda est

>>This is exactly what happened in the US and would
>>happen again: white people *are* more comfortable with
>>Oscar De La Hoya, even if he's poor, moving to their
>>neighborhood than they are Chino XL or Hanley Ramirez
>
>that's due more to the fact that Hanley's a flaming homosexual
>than that he's blacktino.

You stay antagonizing me

You stay getting up under the god's skin, No Hanley

You wanna brawl nigga? Get on the Playstation Network,
I'll FUCK you up

just because you took a liking to a homosexual player doesn't necessarily mean that you're gay (not that there's anything wrong with that)

___________________

Mar-A-Lago delenda est

And they should be last.

You're nuts. Or from Quebec.

------

12 play and 12 planets are enlighten for all the Aliens to Party and free those on the Sex Planet-maxxx

XBL: trkc21
Twitter: @tyrcasey

>You're nuts. Or from Quebec.


----------------------------

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O_E: "Acts like an asshole and posts with imperial disdain"




"I ORBITs the solar system, listenin..."

(C)Keith Murray, "

------

12 play and 12 planets are enlighten for all the Aliens to Party and free those on the Sex Planet-maxxx

XBL: trkc21
Twitter: @tyrcasey

>and to make this into a white thursday post: shall we rank
>the white ethnic/cultural groups in order of preference?

oh oh - no good can come of this.

___________________

Mar-A-Lago delenda est

>>and to make this into a white thursday post: shall we rank
>>the white ethnic/cultural groups in order of preference?
>
>oh oh - no good can come of this.

It'll be fun cmon

----------------------------

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O_E: "Acts like an asshole and posts with imperial disdain"




"I ORBITs the solar system, listenin..."

(C)Keith Murray, "

http://card.mygamercard.net/lastgame/rjcc.png

www.engadgethd.com - the other stuff i'm looking at

I have this weird penchant for REALLY getting along
with harshest, nerdiest, least diplomatic asshole
Russian mathematician-type dudes....I get invited to these
weird russian think tanks all the time...I'm like
"I'm good."

But I get along with these cats serious...I find them
to be the most busy-minded white people...its not that
they aren't racist (quite a few are, they was killing
African cats in Moscow a few years ago) but I find that
older school Russians are too busy/traumatized from all
that communist shit that they just don't have time to be
racist like that

They tend to be brilliant as fuck

And they tend to give nary about anyone or anything

They are on another planet

And Russian Jews are the ones who basically run everything
here in the US, so they got a double dosage of illmatic
cultural shit

Even AK-47 type niggas...LMAO...dude just don't give
a fuck....they got hoes too, don't sleep

----------------------------

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O_E: "Acts like an asshole and posts with imperial disdain"




"I ORBITs the solar system, listenin..."

(C)Keith Murray, "

If it doesn't ship, you must acquit!

>If it doesn't ship, you must acquit!

Fantastic

----------------------------

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O_E: "Acts like an asshole and posts with imperial disdain"




"I ORBITs the solar system, listenin..."

(C)Keith Murray, "

___________________

Mar-A-Lago delenda est

https://twitter.com/chuck4prez

he wasn't raised Jewish, and wasn't bar mitzvahed. But he self-identifies as Jewish, and I feel like I have about as much right to say that he's not really Jewish as I would have telling a mixed race person with light skin that they can't self-identify as black.

It would be hypocritical of me to criticize him for identifying as Jewish when he doesn't practice the religion, since I haven't been to a regular friday night service in like 15 years. But being bar mitzvahed is such a fundamental part of Jewish religious and cultural identity that it's hard to take him seriously as a Jew without it. And it makes me think of what's going to happen when my non-Jewish wife and I have kids. I refuse to budge on the issue of my hypothetical son being bar mitzvahed. She refuses to budge on having the child baptized. Somewhere in between those two events is up for grabs.

*Jews you*

"this is okp tho, reading is completely optional" (c) desus

Proceed with caution. I am overtly racist.

<-- In Pigpen we trust

>he wasn't raised Jewish, and wasn't bar mitzvahed. But he
>self-identifies as Jewish, and I feel like I have about as
>much right to say that he's not really Jewish as I would have
>telling a mixed race person with light skin that they can't
>self-identify as black.

Well, black people tend to take whoever wants to claim
it (if anything, we try to claim too many people), which is
why we're generally happy taking mixed-raced people (also,
unlike white people, black people tend to feel improved by
whiteness, while white people tend to feel tainted by blackness,
no social science mumbo jumbo-o)

Neither here nor there, though: Jewish is a cultural/religions
group more than it is an ethnic group at this stage, and so
cultural identification and being "raised" a certain way is
a perfectly fair criteria if that's what you want to use


>It would be hypocritical of me to criticize him for
>identifying as Jewish when he doesn't practice the religion,
>since I haven't been to a regular friday night service in like
>15 years. But being bar mitzvahed is such a fundamental part
>of Jewish religious and cultural identity that it's hard to
>take him seriously as a Jew without it. And it makes me think
>of what's going to happen when my non-Jewish wife and I have
>kids. I refuse to budge on the issue of my hypothetical son
>being bar mitzvahed. She refuses to budge on having the child
>baptized. Somewhere in between those two events is up for
>grabs.

Well, damn, how the fuck y'all gonna settle this?


----------------------------

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O_E: "Acts like an asshole and posts with imperial disdain"




"I ORBITs the solar system, listenin..."

(C)Keith Murray, "

>>he wasn't raised Jewish, and wasn't bar mitzvahed. But he
>>self-identifies as Jewish, and I feel like I have about as
>>much right to say that he's not really Jewish as I would
>have
>>telling a mixed race person with light skin that they can't
>>self-identify as black.
>
>Well, black people tend to take whoever wants to claim
>it (if anything, we try to claim too many people), which is
>why we're generally happy taking mixed-raced people (also,
>unlike white people, black people tend to feel improved by
>whiteness, while white people tend to feel tainted by
>blackness,
>no social science mumbo jumbo-o)
>

Yeah, but there are white people who feel authorized to say ignant shit like "Tiger Woods isn't really black." There are probably some black people who say it too, but the general idea is that I don't think that anyone can really tell anyone else how to self-identify. If Ryan Braun considers himself Jewish even though he doesn't observe the holidays and didn't have a bar mitzvah, who am I to tell him he can't?


>Neither here nor there, though: Jewish is a
>cultural/religions
>group more than it is an ethnic group at this stage, and so
>cultural identification and being "raised" a certain way is
>a perfectly fair criteria if that's what you want to use
>

There are definitely some people (I'm kinda on the fence) who see Jewish as a race/ethnicity. For thousands of years, we were prohibited from intermarriage. We were chased out of pretty much every place we've tried to call home. Due to these things, we share more in common with each other genetically than we do with any particular country we may have been living in at the time. A Jew living in Russia may likely share more genetically in common with a Jew living in France than he will with his next-door neighbor who is non-Jewish.

>
>>It would be hypocritical of me to criticize him for
>>identifying as Jewish when he doesn't practice the religion,
>>since I haven't been to a regular friday night service in
>like
>>15 years. But being bar mitzvahed is such a fundamental part
>>of Jewish religious and cultural identity that it's hard to
>>take him seriously as a Jew without it. And it makes me
>think
>>of what's going to happen when my non-Jewish wife and I have
>>kids. I refuse to budge on the issue of my hypothetical son
>>being bar mitzvahed. She refuses to budge on having the
>child
>>baptized. Somewhere in between those two events is up for
>>grabs.
>
>Well, damn, how the fuck y'all gonna settle this?
>

Today is definitely not the day for me to answer this question.

*Jews you*

"this is okp tho, reading is completely optional" (c) desus

Proceed with caution. I am overtly racist.

<-- In Pigpen we trust

>There are definitely some people (I'm kinda on the fence) who
>see Jewish as a race/ethnicity. For thousands of years, we
>were prohibited from intermarriage. We were chased out of
>pretty much every place we've tried to call home. Due to these
>things, we share more in common with each other genetically
>than we do with any particular country we may have been living
>in at the time. A Jew living in Russia may likely share more
>genetically in common with a Jew living in France than he will
>with his next-door neighbor who is non-Jewish.

Well, sure; two Jews in France are more likely, by probability,
to have a more recent common ancestor than two random Frenchman.

That is pretty liberal criteria for an "ethnic group,' though.

I know Jews who have the opposite opinion: Jews are dope
specifically because of the breadth and depth of the diaspora;
there are Ethiopian Jews black as tar; there are Jesus Jews (who
look sorta like an average fair-skinned African-American); there
are Jews with blue eyes and blonde hair; all are chosen by god
and are not to be fucked with.

Blue-eyed and blonde haired Jews don't share a particularly
common ancestor with black-as-tar Ethiopian Jews
but both are Jews.

But I'm not Jewish and so should probably shut the fuck up,
quite honestly,


>Today is definitely not the day for me to answer this
>question.

LOL fair enough

----------------------------

Young Broadway Star Urgently Needs a Bone Marrow Donor. Is it you? http://MatchShannon.com/







O_E: "Acts like an asshole and posts with imperial disdain"




"I ORBITs the solar system, listenin..."

(C)Keith Murray, "

>
>>There are definitely some people (I'm kinda on the fence)
>who
>>see Jewish as a race/ethnicity. For thousands of years, we
>>were prohibited from intermarriage. We were chased out of
>>pretty much every place we've tried to call home. Due to
>these
>>things, we share more in common with each other genetically
>>than we do with any particular country we may have been
>living
>>in at the time. A Jew living in Russia may likely share more
>>genetically in common with a Jew living in France than he
>will
>>with his next-door neighbor who is non-Jewish.
>
>Well, sure; two Jews in France are more likely, by
>probability,
>to have a more recent common ancestor than two random
>Frenchman.
>
>That is pretty liberal criteria for an "ethnic group,' though.
>

I was referring more to the fact that a Jew in France and a Jew in Russia are more likely to have a more recent common ancestor than a Jew in France and a non-Jew in France. So that Jew in France has more genetically in common with a stranger in Russia than he does with his next-door neighbor.

>
>I know Jews who have the opposite opinion: Jews are dope
>specifically because of the breadth and depth of the diaspora;
>
>there are Ethiopian Jews black as tar; there are Jesus Jews
>(who
>look sorta like an average fair-skinned African-American);
>there
>are Jews with blue eyes and blonde hair; all are chosen by god
>
>and are not to be fucked with.
>
>Blue-eyed and blonde haired Jews don't share a particularly
>common ancestor with black-as-tar Ethiopian Jews
>but both are Jews.
>
>But I'm not Jewish and so should probably shut the fuck up,
>quite honestly,
>
>


I may have been exaggerating a bit by extending it to all Jews all over the world, but European Jews have more DNA in common with one another than with whatever countrymen they have.

Look at Italians as an example. Most "ethnic Italians" have been living in the region currently known as Italy for hundreds, if not thousands, of years. As a result, ethnic Italians share common physical features, genetic DNA, etc., because their ancestors have all been living and breeding in the same part of the world for all that time.

Same thing for ethnic French, ethnic Spaniards, or any other group of people whose ancestry traces back to one country for multiple generations.

With European Jews, we've never had one specific country that we were able to stay in for very long. So as a result, that shared DNA is more specific to other European Jews than it is to other Spaniards, Italians, or whatever. That's as a result of living 3-4 generations in one place, then moving somewhere else and living there for 3-4 generations, then moving again. When they got to the new place, they weren't allowed to marry or mingle with the people who lived there, so the gene pool stayed within the same group of people.

Things were a little different for Ethiopian Jews and Arab Jews, so I shouldn't have lumped them in.

If I were to meet a member of the KKK, or some other virulent racist, and they learned I was Jewish, they certainly wouldn't consider me to be "white" like them. It may not be the most rational thing to (partially) base my self-identification on the opinion of the fringe elements, but isn't the existence of racists and racism the only reason that race matters? If there were no racists/racism in the world, the color of your skin would matter as much as the color of your eyes.

So, since racists don't consider me to be white, why should I fully look at myself as white? To me, that's trying to gain acceptance into a club that doesn't want you. So I look at myself as Jewish first, White second. I can't completely deny my whiteness, because I enjoy the benefits of white privilege (at least partially because I don't "look" Jewish). But I don't fully embrace it either, because once my Jewish identity is revealed, I become an "other" in the eyes of some.

*Jews you*

"this is okp tho, reading is completely optional" (c) desus

Proceed with caution. I am overtly racist.

<-- In Pigpen we trust

>So, since racists don't consider me to be white, why should I
>fully look at myself as white? To me, that's trying to gain
>acceptance into a club that doesn't want you. So I look at
>myself as Jewish first, White second. I can't completely deny
>my whiteness, because I enjoy the benefits of white privilege
>(at least partially because I don't "look" Jewish). But I
>don't fully embrace it either, because once my Jewish identity
>is revealed, I become an "other" in the eyes of some.

A lot of this is debatable but I agree with the gist and
appreciate the insight

I think that allowing racists to define your identity is
a bit problematic, for example, but I understand how you
feel Jewish first and white second

I dated a Greek girl who *definitely* didn't see herself
as white......culturally her people have VERY little to do
with white Americans...and her point was fair but at the end
of the day she gave in and knew she was white

W/e though

I feel you overall


----------------------------

Young Broadway Star Urgently Needs a Bone Marrow Donor. Is it you? http://MatchShannon.com/







O_E: "Acts like an asshole and posts with imperial disdain"




"I ORBITs the solar system, listenin..."

(C)Keith Murray, "

re: the baptism/bar mitzvah divide. big upcoming hypothetical issue for my fiancee and myself already.

Relatedly, her aunt is a...lapsed...jew, but claims our identity. I find it very difficult at times because she will make comments I don't think she's really qualified to make about Jews in general or making fun of Passover seders or hanukah in front of her family. To fit in, i don't get into a jew-off with her, but because of that, her family sees the religious and cultural identity as significantly less important/meaningful than I do. that's their model of judaism. jokes about chuppahs have been made and it offended my mom when it got back to her because those aren't laughing matters in my family.

it's an awkward balance--i like having jewish role models who aren't the stereotype. but they better not fuck it up and it's those jews who are either way too intense or completely casual about it who often do.

then again, i eat pork like its my job, so who am i to judge?

-----------
It's only funny till someone gets mad. Then it's hilarious.

I'm AMAZED by how Jews are able to keep their
issues WITHIN the community

When I started hearing about all the intra-Jew issues
I was like: WTF???? Word?

Didn't know there was all this conservative/secular Jew
beef like that

and low key apparently there's some quiet class shit
going on too


Black Americans try to do this, but fail mostly

Everybody knows our business



----------------------------

Young Broadway Star Urgently Needs a Bone Marrow Donor. Is it you? http://MatchShannon.com/







O_E: "Acts like an asshole and posts with imperial disdain"




"I ORBITs the solar system, listenin..."

(C)Keith Murray, "

black america can't keep it in house as much for two main reasons, i suspect:
1. the need for white america to have black spokespeople to talk about what black people believe as cultural translators for us. but that's an impossible task, so eventually, they disagree and shit pops off.
2. the white desire to continue the narrative of a disorganized, incompetent black community as a screen for white responsibility to remedy the centuries of continuing oppression. It ain't our fault the ghetto is so bad--y'all can't agree. thus, we hype up the black conservative and give them more of a voice than they would otherwise get to fuel that "black people, fix thyselves!" theory. even as fixing one's own community is a noble endeavor, white people gotta fix a whole lot of it too.

those just aren't true for jews.

-----------
It's only funny till someone gets mad. Then it's hilarious.

I appreciate the honest discourse.

Alan you too

Get out the room,
http://getouttheroom.podomatic.com

http://itunes.apple.com/us/podcast/get-out-the-room/id525657893

Situation Podemy love

https://itunes.apple.com/us/podcast/situation-podemy/id620232249

Situation Podemy : www.situationpodemy.wordpres

but I view certain religious things (like the chuppah, bar mitzvahs, seders, etc) as cultural things.

As said above, I haven't been to regular services pretty much since my bar mitzvah in 1994, but I still got married under a chuppah (IN A CHURCH!) and do my seder duty. I don't follow any of the dietary laws though, despite my username (my name's not Sam, either, lol)

*Jews you*

"this is okp tho, reading is completely optional" (c) desus

Proceed with caution. I am overtly racist.

<-- In Pigpen we trust

not about the reading itself. not sure about the chuppah--i'd like it, but i'm flexible on that one (I think we're going 100% non-religious).

i'm a little more religious--i avoid grains on passover and i fast--but i don't go to services practically ever. I've grown more serious about the fasting and passover rules partly as a way to signal i'm not like their aunt.

-----------
It's only funny till someone gets mad. Then it's hilarious.

>I've grown more serious about the fasting and passover rules partly as >a way to signal i'm not like their aunt.

I started going to a Tridentine rite Mass when I lived in Chicago because I was tired of hearing my mom complain about the Pope abandoning the second Vatican Council.

______________________________

"Walleye, a lot of things are going to go wrong in your life that technically aren't your fault. Always remember that this doesn't make you any less of an idiot"

--Walleye's Dad

is that, to my knowledge, I'm the first male in my direct paternal lineage to marry a non-Jew. Which means that from my father, to his father, to his father, etc. Every. Single. Male. for up to or over FIVE THOUSAND YEARS has gone through this sacred rite of passage. I cannot bring myself to be the one to break that chain.


>not about the reading itself. not sure about the chuppah--i'd
>like it, but i'm flexible on that one (I think we're going
>100% non-religious).

several years ago, my cousin made a chuppah for another of our cousin, and embroidered their names and wedding date on it. Since then, several other family members have used it, and had their names and date embroidered on it. I really wanted to keep the tradition going, so I insisted on using it. My wife's family doesn't really know any Jews, so they were thrilled about the interfaith wedding, because they had never seen a Jewish wedding. We had a great rabbi (we found him on the internet, because I couldn't find a rabbi willing to perform a saturday afternoon service inside a church - not even my own aunt) who explained each of the customs as he got to them, and everything went off without a hitch.

>
>i'm a little more religious--i avoid grains on passover and i
>fast--but i don't go to services practically ever. I've grown
>more serious about the fasting and passover rules partly as a
>way to signal i'm not like their aunt.
>

I started fasting also. I think the older we get, the more we revert back to our culture for its familiarity. I think most Jews are barely practicing in their 20s, and then get more involved once they get older.

*Jews you*

"this is okp tho, reading is completely optional" (c) desus

Proceed with caution. I am overtly racist.

<-- In Pigpen we trust

but judaism to me is a religion and not really cultural. i know most jews, especially secular ones feel differently and feel a cultural connection and identify judaism as a religion and even an ethnicity. it's funny, after going on the ver first birthright trip in college in 2000, after i got back my belief in god and feelings about religion and judaism waned. some of it is my feelings about the palestinian/israeli conflict. Israel's actions have disgusted me for some time and I really don't consider myself a zionist. At this point, there should be dual statehood. So, Israel has turned me off a lot...and honestly, I live in Rogers Park neighborhood in Chicago, grew up with a friend that was ultra-orthodox and that community just really bugs me. The insular and often close-mindedness of the ultra-orthodox community really angers me at times. I know it's not fair to make a blanket statement but I'm not a big fan of the orthodox. Shit, let's even look at the ultra-orthodox in Mea Sharim in Jerusalem and see how they feel about jews in the US.

i no longer believe in religion and don't think judaism is something that cultural so i have a hard time saying i'm jewish. i don't really know what to say. i'm agnostic in my approach to god but that's where it ends. my wife and i got married last July and did not have a religious ceremony. We had a friend get ordained online to marry us. my wife is technically jewish because her mother is jewish and her dad is half, and she called her grandma, bubby, but other than that grew up celebrating christmas. my sister-in-law considers herself jewish but was raised the same and did not have a bat mitzvah.

it's pretty much the definition of BEING orthodox - that you take the word of whatever holy book literally, and you are not open to new interpretations or deviations from it.

the line between culture and religion is blurry in all religions. Is a christmas tree religious, or is it a cultural aspect of christianity that happens to go along with observing the holiday? Is the horah as religious dance, or is it something Jews do?

*Jews you*

"this is okp tho, reading is completely optional" (c) desus

Proceed with caution. I am overtly racist.

<-- In Pigpen we trust

>it's pretty much the definition of BEING orthodox - that you
>take the word of whatever holy book literally, and you are not
>open to new interpretations or deviations from it.

______________________________

"Walleye, a lot of things are going to go wrong in your life that technically aren't your fault. Always remember that this doesn't make you any less of an idiot"

--Walleye's Dad

*Jews you*

"this is okp tho, reading is completely optional" (c) desus

Proceed with caution. I am overtly racist.

<-- In Pigpen we trust

It's translation is simple. It means "right belief" but my primary objection is your singular use of a book as the source from which right belief is derived. That's not the case in the Catholic and Orthodox churches, where the deposit of faith is passed down through the guidance of the Holy Spirit in a variety of forms: definitely scripture, but also church councils and the teaching authority of the bishops as interpretive figures. The interpretive tradition is key, so that even if it remains historically stagnant (which seems to be what you're saying with respect to Orthodox Jews), it *is* an interpretive tradition that implicitly accepts that these texts require some puzzling out by people qualified to do so. In that sense, a single text can be regarded as fully authoritative but not solely authoritative.

Only, to different degrees. All told, I don't think cross-cultural comparisons of this way of figuring stuff is very helpful. What you described is more the case with Evangelical Protestants than other Christian traditions.

______________________________

"Walleye, a lot of things are going to go wrong in your life that technically aren't your fault. Always remember that this doesn't make you any less of an idiot"

--Walleye's Dad

religion should be more open-minded in the aspect of respecting other people's beliefs, customers, norms, etc. I've met more accepting ultra-religious people of other faiths than I have with orthodox jews.

sounds like some dumb shit commenters on a Ron Paul video would say.

*Jews you*

"this is okp tho, reading is completely optional" (c) desus

Proceed with caution. I am overtly racist.

<-- In Pigpen we trust

the terminology is what killed me. nowadays I'm just used to hearing "Jew" flung with venom or ironic "bite" so much nowadays that I forget it's not "bad".

>nowadays I'm just used to
>hearing "Jew" flung with venom or ironic "bite" so much
>nowadays that I forget it's not "bad".

>>nowadays I'm just used to
>>hearing "Jew" flung with venom or ironic "bite" so much
>>nowadays that I forget it's not "bad".

people I hang around with don't really discuss faith like that (see: The Ron Paul Youtube commenter comment)

get 'em - LOL


>It would be hypocritical of me to criticize him for
>identifying as Jewish when he doesn't practice the religion,
>since I haven't been to a regular friday night service in like
>15 years. But being bar mitzvahed is such a fundamental part
>of Jewish religious and cultural identity that it's hard to
>take him seriously as a Jew without it. And it makes me think
>of what's going to happen when my non-Jewish wife and I have
>kids. I refuse to budge on the issue of my hypothetical son
>being bar mitzvahed. She refuses to budge on having the child
>baptized. Somewhere in between those two events is up for
>grabs.

does it matter that it's his father who's Jewish instead of his mother? I know that's what traditional Jewish lineage goes by, but not sure what the typical Jewish opinion is on that (if there is one)

___________________

Mar-A-Lago delenda est

as okp Mongo once said "we have to go by the mother, otherwise we would have been raped out of existence centuries ago."

*Jews you*

"this is okp tho, reading is completely optional" (c) desus

Proceed with caution. I am overtly racist.

<-- In Pigpen we trust

he wasn't raised Jewish & wasn't bar mitzvahed, but it was his mother who was Jewish instead of his father, would you still be torn on considering him Jewish, or would you consider him Jewish because that's what Jewish tradition goes by?


>as okp Mongo once said "we have to go by the mother,
>otherwise we would have been raped out of existence centuries
>ago."

ha, yeah I remember when he said that. so does that date from the diaspora era or has that been the tradition going back thousands of years to like Solomon's temple times?

___________________

Mar-A-Lago delenda est

and it's very hotly debated within the religion whether or not to count the children of jewish fathers and non-jewish mothers. reform and reconstructionists are cool with it generally, conservative hope they officially convert, and orthodox won't have any of it (and that's overly simple).

-----------
It's only funny till someone gets mad. Then it's hilarious.

I remember early in his career hearing that he bristled at being dubbed "the Hebrew Hammer" in Milwaukee because he didn't think of himself as Jewish. I could in fact be very wrong, or he could have had a change of heart. I just know what I heard back then. I know I like him better than Youkliss, who definitely identifies himself as Jewish, but is a douche.

>It would be hypocritical of me to criticize him for
>identifying as Jewish when he doesn't practice the religion,
>since I haven't been to a regular friday night service in like
>15 years. But being bar mitzvahed is such a fundamental part
>of Jewish religious and cultural identity that it's hard to
>take him seriously as a Jew without it.

See, I'm going to have to disagree here, speaking as a Jew who was not bar mitzvahed. Both my parents are Jewish. I was raised Jewish culturally. I know and respect the history and traditions. But I wasn't bar-mitzvahed (figured I'd be doing it for the wrong reasons). Yet and still, I'm as Jewish as f-ing Tevye, word to Walter. Hell, I'm getting married under a chuppah, by a Rabbi.

-----------------

www.albumism.com

Checkin' Our Style, Return To Zero:

https://www.mixcloud.com/returntozero/

You know who I do care about though? Roger Clemens.
____________________

Behold my works,ye mighty

The outrage, dimmed though it was for awhile, was kind of hiding what I understood as the league trying to argue that observance of a set of guidelines which they instituted and agreed to contained some sort of wiggle room. There's a bargain at play here and no matter how trivial it seems (and the shipping problems stretch even the bounds of the term "trivial") to make the party in charge of administering punishment the one that observes the exact letter of the law - that strikes me as the necessary bargain for making players responsible for whatever got into their body. Players aren't allowed to say "I don't know how that got there" about their urine content* and the league has to make sure that everything is as airtight as they promised in collective bargaining.

In short, I think there's more at stake here than whether Ryan Braun plays the first fifty games of the season or whether his MVP last year was legitimate. Particularly since his MVP last year should be an open issue of discussion one way or the other. What's at stake is suspensions over non-analytical positives like they use in biking, which strikes me as the sort of thing that can be tremendously weighted according to how popular certain players and teams are. Or further and further invasions of privacy for players in the minor leagues who don't have the collective bargaining strength of their MLB counterparts.

So what I don't like is people carrying for ancient used-car salesmen that can't manage this small job properly. Selig doesn't deserve it, and Ryan Braun (and Barry Bonds and hell, even Juan Rincon if you're me and it's the mid-2000s) is why we watch baseball games. Largely through their own fault in the 90s and 2000s, the players have put themselves in the position of having to repeatedly, randomly prove their innocence and I think it's weird that a commissioner as otherwise unpopular here as Selig gets so much implicit support when we don't require that his office hold up their end of this bargain.

*Or, rather, they can't say that to avoid suspension. I assume pretty much everybody will say that to save their reputation.

______________________________

"Walleye, a lot of things are going to go wrong in your life that technically aren't your fault. Always remember that this doesn't make you any less of an idiot"

--Walleye's Dad

Weirdest bust since Alex Sanchez

http://i.imgur.com/vPqCzVU.jpg

One of my favorite Twins for his weirdly un-baseball demeanor. After giving up the homerun to Roberto Kelly in the 2004 ALDS, he famously said to the press, "Nobody wants to be in my pants right now."

I felt bad too because everybody assumed his success was due to steroids, but his career trajectory was so conventional. Small righty with big fastball has to tone it down as a starter. He fails to learn a third pitch, gets moved to the pen where both his fastball and one second pitch play up. It's the story of like 75% of late inning relievers.

______________________________

"Walleye, a lot of things are going to go wrong in your life that technically aren't your fault. Always remember that this doesn't make you any less of an idiot"

--Walleye's Dad

if only that no good Reyes went up to bat like he was supposed to.

What a cheater!

like i said in reply 1 i dont really give a shit about Ryan Braun individually so that isnt what its about.

but i HATE HATE HATE when playing the game isnt about winning. Reyes sitting out definitely didnt do anything to help his team win, and it was all for an individual record that he was scared to go out and compete for on the last day. I know its happened before and will happen again but thats pussy as hell to me.

just like drew brees setting a record in the 4th qtr of a blowout or the angels(or the rangers dont remember) sitting half their team in a game with direct playoff implications.

its lame as fuck when competing and winning takes a backseat to other shit

Explain

Braun FAILED A PEDS test

Explain why Reyes is worse

I'm listening

----------------------------

Young Broadway Star Urgently Needs a Bone Marrow Donor. Is it you? http://MatchShannon.com/







O_E: "Acts like an asshole and posts with imperial disdain"




"I ORBITs the solar system, listenin..."

(C)Keith Murray, "

In hindsight, hard to really root for either one of them to get the crown last year.