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Subject: "for you mathematicians out there: Klinsmann apparently = 4 Bob Bradleys" Previous topic | Next topic
celery77
Member since Aug 04th 2005
25307 posts
Mon Dec-12-11 05:54 PM

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"for you mathematicians out there: Klinsmann apparently = 4 Bob Bradleys"


  

          

so considering Bob Bradley was in the knockout stages, and we can now safely expect 4x as many results from the blonde motivator extraordinaire, our proud German savior Jurgen, that should put us in the WC Final in 2014 right? 4 wins in the knockouts where Bradley couldn't produce? good news, good news, can't wait. I'll have to start planning the party now.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/soccer-insider/post/us-soccer-federation-budget-revealed/2011/12/12/gIQA5lZCqO_blog.html#pagebreak

Posted at 03:18 PM ET, 12/12/2011
U.S. Soccer Federation budget revealed

By Steven Goff


I spent part of my weekend leafing through the 604-page U.S. Soccer Federation budget for fiscal year 2013, which covers April 2012 through the following March. (I dont recommend it.)

Want to know how much is spent on shipping costs for a board of directors meeting, cell phone stipends, auto maintenance, the value of office furniture or the number of players registered in Vermont? How about President Sunil Gulatis travel expenses? Its all in there. (Gulati is afforded $120,770 for 35 domestic trips and seven international visits.)

The budget, which was obtained by the Insider last week, must be ratified at the USSFs annual general meeting in March in Miami.

Beyond the minutia that would numb even the most enthusiastic accountant, the book reveals a number of interesting figures and statements:


*The USSF is projecting a $6.6 million deficit in FY 13 ($8.8 million operating deficit, offset some by $2.2 million investment income). We believe our commitment today to both programming and personnel will increase the overall value of our core property and in turn increase future revenue opportunities, the federation says in the budget report.

That personnel includes new U.S. mens national team coach Juergen Klinsmann, whose base salary is $2.5 million four times more than predecessor Bob Bradley earned. The USSF is also expanding the officiating program and continuing to invest in the Development Academy, which is designed to bolster the youth system.

The USSF is projecting a deficit of $4.5 million for fiscal year 2012, which ends this March ($6.1 million overall, offset some by $1.6 million investment income). The economy is partly to blame: We anticipate continued negative impact on matches that are not considered premium by our fans, which refers to friendlies against low- or mid-tier opponents or matches played early in the year and World Cup cycle, the federation says.

From a marketing and sponsorship perspective, we have long-term agreements in place with sustained revenue. We are also in the process of pursuing additional long-term sponsorship agreements that will help protect against any short-term economic downturns.

In 2010 and 11, the USSF banked surpluses totaling more than $8 million, most of it coming from investment income.

According to the budget, revenue in FY 13 will come from sponsors ($12.5 million); mens and womens national team events ($11.6 million); player and membership registration ($5.7 million); referee registration ($3 million); and coaching programs ($1.5 million). Nike, a major sponsor, earmarked an additional $5.9 million for player development programs.

*The two Victory Tour matches for the U.S. womens national team this fall grossed $1.1 million in ticket sales (35,000 total). The U.S. mens national team friendly against world champion Spain in June netted $4.7 million in ticket sales (64,000) and revenue.

The womens team is slated to play two away friendlies in April and one at home in May. It will also play three away friendlies in June and one at home in July before the Olympics (assuming the Americans qualify next month).

The womens participation in the Olympics brings in an additional $250,000 from sponsors. Team expenses are projected at $1.8 million and winning the gold medal would trigger more than $1 million in bonuses for the player pool and a Victory Tour of up to 10 games.

If the women fail to win the gold and settle for silver or bronze, the bonus pool is very small (no specifics available) and the Victory Tour would be adjusted accordingly, just as the post-World Cup schedule was trimmed to two matches after the team finished second in Germany.

In stark contrast, the U.S. Olympic mens squad wouldnt receive any additional rewards for earning a medal in London. Why would the women receive enormous bonuses and the men collect slaps on the back?

The womens riches are driven by the collective bargaining agreement between the womens senior national team and the USSF. The womens senior squad represents the United States at the Olympics, which, along with the World Cup, are the pinnacle of the players career.

The Olympic mens squad is primarily for under-23 players striving for a place on the senior national team, where financial prizes are substantial in later years. (The U.S. mens senior national team has a separate CBA with the USSF and doesnt include the U-23s.)

The womens CBA also calls for annual salaries for the primary players: $62,500, $43,750 or $31,250, which supplements their modest WPS contracts. The men have no such agreement. They do, however, receive appearance fees and bonuses for national team work; the women dont.

*The mens senior team is slated to play away friendlies in June and August 2012. The USSF will receive $25,000 for those appearances; team expenses are projected at more than $300,000 for each trip. A major home friendly (known as a premium match) is planned for June with 55,000 spectators at an average ticket price of $67 for gate revenue of $3.7 million. The event expenses plus U.S. team expenses would total $1.8 million, for an anticipated surplus of $1.9 million. (And you wonder why the USA plays Mexico at home regularly.)

The team is also pegged to play an away match next fall that would bring in $100,000 (offset by $400,000 in expenses). The World Cup qualifying schedule includes two matches in June, two in September and two in October, plus three in early 2013, assuming the Americans advance to the final round. The semifinal-round home games are money-losers because of typically modest turnouts for lower-ranked opponents. The away matches garner no revenue and cost nearly $600,000 apiece in expenses.

*The mens youth program was $442,000 under budget this year, most of that due to the failure to qualify for the U-20 World Cup.

*In FY 12, the USSF expects to collect $2.8 million in fees for sanctioning international matches at U.S. venues involving non-U.S. friendlies and exhibitions featuring visiting clubs about $600,000 above initial expectations. FIFA and CONCACAF receive a percentage of those fees, and another share is earmarked for the state association where the match is held. Promoters have challenged the USSFs right to collect the fee and filed suit. The case is pending.

*The USSF is making a substantial commitment to improving officiating by spending $3.8 million in FY 13 a $1.1 million increase over FY 12. However, its not entirely a knee-jerk reaction to criticism leveled by MLS players, coaches and supporters about the quality of officiating; the USSF has said over the years its been looking to improve the program. However, the intensity of the criticism has undoubtedly sped up the process. Details of the revamped program are expected to be unveiled soon.

The FY 13 budget includes $1.8 million earmarked for referee performance, which includes the pro referee department, full-time referee program, training camps, referee coach and match evaluation.

In FY 12, the USSF budgeted $90,000 for such initiatives but expects to end up spending $1.15 million. It has also budgeted $639,000 for referee ID and training; in FY 12, it budgeted $75,000 and anticipates spending $346,000.

Also in FY 12, the USSF didnt budget any money for referee education but will end up spending $532,000. For FY 13, the budget calls for $631,000 in that area. Its unclear how much MLS will help to offset the costs.

Not included in the budget details but confirmed by the Insider: Terry Vaughn, one of three full-time USSF referees and an MLS regular, will not return to the program next year because of subpar evaluations

___________

HOPE!
https://vine.co/v/i7JjIBL3Qix
https://vine.co/v/i7JtqEFwxDu

  

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Topic Outline
Subject Author Message Date ID
for you mathematicians out there: 4 * 0 = 0
Dec 12th 2011
1
worrying about other men's money
Dec 12th 2011
2
You and jersey should jump in a kayak and sing yiddish tunes
Dec 12th 2011
3
did you just make a jew joke?
Mar 27th 2012
10
      To be fair, he didn't *just* make it. It was three months ago.
Mar 27th 2012
11
Worst agenda in OKSports. n/m
Dec 13th 2011
4
oh so when the 'cism is anti-American, okp can't be bothered to care?
Dec 13th 2011
5
      RE: oh so when the 'cism is anti-American, okp can't be bothered to care...
Mar 27th 2012
9
o you thought we were blaming that debacle on Porter? Wrong.
Mar 26th 2012
6
2.5m sounds like nothing, lol @ bradley was making less than an
Mar 27th 2012
7
RE: for you mathematicians out there: Klinsmann apparently = 4 Bob Brad...
Mar 27th 2012
8
so remember the MLS team Klinsi "consulted" prior to the US job?
May 08th 2012
12
I'm with ya, Celery. And I say bring back Arena.
May 08th 2012
13
Bruce "Kasey Keller is my best keeper" Arena? Pass.
May 08th 2012
18
      the guy that got further than any US coach in recent history??
May 08th 2012
22
           Hate to say I told you so. He stuck with TIMMAY one cycle too long too.
Oct 10th 2017
185
You of all people should be glad...
May 08th 2012
14
      if the guy who set up the historic failure wasn't my nat'l team coach
May 08th 2012
15
           I have a tough time seeing how we'll be good in 2014
May 08th 2012
16
                the development system is being sorted by MLS
May 08th 2012
17
                     So what national team managers CAN take credit for developing youth?
May 08th 2012
20
                     ^^^^^
May 08th 2012
24
                     exactly right -- it's not the NT's manager's job to develop youth
May 08th 2012
26
                     I'm actually ready to give Reyna a lot of the credit for that...
May 08th 2012
23
                     this really is stupid though...
May 08th 2012
25
u seem mad
May 08th 2012
19
Furious, even.
May 08th 2012
21
US Soccer heads(not named celery), what do you think of the Bundesliga.....
May 11th 2012
27
just field the strongest team within FIFA regulations
May 11th 2012
28
the only way we'll every make noise with "american-born" talent is...
May 11th 2012
29
      lolwut
May 11th 2012
30
           RE: lolwut
May 11th 2012
31
           competitive(club) soccer definately
Oct 18th 2012
42
Bundesliga is solid (but Bob Bradley was targeting the same guys)
Sep 11th 2012
33
welcome to the party, mainstream media! (Klinsi-truther swipe)
Sep 11th 2012
32
this article is a bit reactionary.
Sep 11th 2012
34
      pointing out use of recycled tactics by our "visionary" = reactionary?
Sep 11th 2012
35
11 Gs, 6 GA in WCQ, never had less than 13, more than 3 in last 3 WCQs
Oct 18th 2012
36
all I'm saying is
Oct 18th 2012
37
      Sigi deserves a look as well.
Oct 18th 2012
38
      Sigi's a one-dimensional direct play coach, he can kiss my ass
Oct 18th 2012
40
      At what? A Spanx collection?
Oct 18th 2012
41
      couldn't be more thrilled to have a ticket, couldn't be more unsure
Oct 18th 2012
39
Klinsi: "I was a euro-snob elitist prick. I regret the error." (swipe)
Jan 28th 2013
43
OMAR COMING
Jan 28th 2013
44
*whistles proudly* (and HOLY SHIT @ that avy lmao!)
Jan 28th 2013
45
So where do we think MLS rates nowadays?
Jan 28th 2013
46
the best MLS teams would compete for promotion to EPL imo
Jan 28th 2013
47
      That's a bold statement.
Jan 28th 2013
48
           is it? how many EPL teams could Robbie Keane start for right today?
Jan 28th 2013
49
                Well, the question isn't whether the best US players are EPL quality.
Jan 28th 2013
50
                     MLS rosters = 30 players now so the starting XI is usually pretty solid
Jan 28th 2013
51
                          We need an Anglo-American Cup.
Jan 28th 2013
53
summary: in America we have a ton of mediocre interchangeable players
Jan 28th 2013
52
"In conversation after conversation, the same themes emerged" (swipe)
Mar 19th 2013
54
who would you bring in at this point?
Mar 19th 2013
55
      Klinsmann gets this cycle to fail, then hire either Kinnear or Kreis
Mar 19th 2013
56
           not Kreis. Kinnear, yes.
Mar 20th 2013
57
           I see you protecting your coach
Mar 20th 2013
58
                Porter could stand to get a single MLS victory first
Mar 20th 2013
59
                     ;)
Mar 20th 2013
60
Don Garber: Klinsmann's treatment of Landon was "inexcusable"
Oct 15th 2014
61
Don Garber is a fucking CLOWN and this is pathetic
Oct 15th 2014
62
if the current Kaiser of US Soccer doesn't give a shit, thats concerning
Oct 15th 2014
64
he doesn't give a shit, because his survival is about one thing
Oct 16th 2014
80
i'm saying...
Oct 16th 2014
74
      Gus Hiddink said Eredivisie's structure is bad, players were hurt by it?
Oct 16th 2014
75
           pretty much every league i know has a weird relation w/ their NT
Oct 16th 2014
76
           which is completely natural, and predictable...
Oct 16th 2014
79
           there's "weird," and there's openly hostile
Oct 16th 2014
84
           national teams' coaches bitch about leagues & clubs all the time + vice ...
Oct 16th 2014
77
           wait wait wait... "SOMEHOW INFERIOR" !??
Oct 16th 2014
81
                a team full of MLS stars did better than a team of EPL stars at the WC
Oct 16th 2014
83
Jurgen's response will be a wanking motion w his hand
Oct 15th 2014
63
same tactical team talk he gave prior to facing Germany
Oct 15th 2014
65
      same thing landy was doing while Dempsey scored in his 3rd straight WC
Oct 15th 2014
68
           a blessing for Clint he had the league St. Landon built to prep for it
Oct 15th 2014
69
                LOL you on your O_E today huh?
Oct 15th 2014
70
                     Soccer Don drew those battle lines, I've BEEN ready #TeamSoccer
Oct 15th 2014
71
                          no I mean lying
Oct 16th 2014
78
What a waste of time
Oct 15th 2014
66
uhhhh, I think you meant best US Soccer beef since Harkes + Wynalda
Oct 15th 2014
67
lol Garber a ho for that.
Oct 15th 2014
72
i'm riding with you & garber on this one
Oct 16th 2014
73
still have no problem leaving him off, but Klinsy needs to shut up
Oct 16th 2014
82
      dude used LD's send-off presser to say LD's career was a disappointment
Oct 16th 2014
85
           Let's talk about Landon's awkward departure
Oct 16th 2014
87
                Donovan didn't want the testimonial, Sunil Gulati was the one who pushed
Oct 16th 2014
90
                     Funny how the word "no" works when it's convenient for Landy
Oct 17th 2014
95
Lost in the mix is JK's call for MLS to adopt promotion/relegation
Oct 16th 2014
86
yep. they should have relegation.
Oct 16th 2014
88
it's not lost, just easily dismissed for the naive euro-snobbery it is
Oct 16th 2014
89
The Crux of this: Don/You care about the LEAGUE
Oct 16th 2014
91
      USA performed better than England in the last two World Cups
Oct 16th 2014
92
           b/c england is the only country that uses promotion/relegation.
Oct 17th 2014
93
                b/c pro/rel is credited as the driving force in Germany's WC win
Oct 17th 2014
94
I'm not sure promotion/relegation elevates the level of play in a league
Oct 17th 2014
96
      it's Ayn Randian nonsense, as real as the Fountainhead
Oct 17th 2014
97
MLS owners tell Klinsi to keep his hand out of their pockets (link)
Nov 14th 2014
98
here's the stupidity of this whole thing: NO ONE IS IN THE WRONG.
Nov 14th 2014
99
if Klinsmann is using call-ups to steer players to euro agents...
Nov 14th 2014
103
don't clubs the world over run the risk of losing out on their own youth
Nov 14th 2014
100
no, MLS doesn't get compensation when their youth leaves
Nov 14th 2014
101
      who cares. that's the breaks.
Nov 14th 2014
102
           the guys paying Klinsi's checks, staffing his starting XI care
Nov 14th 2014
104
I like "euro-snob" as a verb.
Nov 14th 2014
105
former USMNT fitness coach tells the truth on Klinsi: he sucks (link)
Feb 06th 2015
106
That fitness issue feels like a smokescreen
Feb 06th 2015
107
not exactly unbiased observer there
Feb 06th 2015
108
true, 3 WCs, 2 HCs experience with the USMNT would bias a person
Feb 06th 2015
109
      youre swinging elbows at me like I give a fuck
Feb 06th 2015
110
           it's not just hammies, it's also the claim US lacks a fitness culture
Feb 06th 2015
111
None of this will matter come sunday when Jurgy starts Lee at the 10
Feb 06th 2015
112
thoroughly enjoyed this Opta stat breakdown showing USMNT's regression:
Mar 26th 2015
113
Last USA loss to a Caribbean team on US soil: 1968
Jul 22nd 2015
114
second ever lost to Jamaica ........... the first being in 2012 WCQ
Jul 22nd 2015
115
Solving the Jurgen Klinsmann Problem (swipe)
Aug 01st 2015
116
There's a lot of stupidity here
Aug 03rd 2015
118
      who should replace him is tough to answer right now
Aug 04th 2015
119
           fabian is the best player in the pool right now
Aug 04th 2015
120
Fuck it, I hope he resigns and goes to Ghana or Nigeria.
Aug 01st 2015
117
Fabian Johnson given "harsh words", sent home from USMNT following MX L
Oct 12th 2015
121
oh look, now Gladbach say they are treating Fabian for a thigh injury
Oct 13th 2015
122
...
Mar 25th 2016
123
yeah, I was waiting for you to up this.
Mar 25th 2016
124
two sloppy/bad goals conceded, but USA attack was utterly aimless
Mar 25th 2016
125
USMNT completed 59% of passes in attacking 3rd, worst since data existed
Mar 25th 2016
126
...
Nov 11th 2016
127
Klinnsy made America great again
Nov 12th 2016
128
4-0. Wow. Feels like they gave up tonight.
Nov 15th 2016
129
how flattering for Jurgen to be compared to Mourinho's Chelsea
Nov 16th 2016
134
Arena back?
Nov 16th 2016
130
Anyone else
Nov 16th 2016
131
      I'll always have a soft spot for him.
Nov 16th 2016
132
      what's wrong with Arena (if he doesn't go past Russia)?
Nov 16th 2016
133
           he looks like a neanderthal?
Nov 16th 2016
135
           a funny, lovable neanderthal -- sure
Nov 16th 2016
136
           Same as most managers. He plays favorites.
Nov 16th 2016
137
           and I'm pretty sure Josh Wolff is on his coaching staff now
Nov 16th 2016
139
                release the Nguyen for the win
Nov 16th 2016
141
           i meant anyjuan else besides klinsy. arenas is fine
Nov 18th 2016
144
Time left on his contract, has to be cheap enough to fire now
Nov 16th 2016
138
hey, celery was right all along * tips cap *
Nov 16th 2016
140
yyyyyep.
Nov 21st 2016
148
*shrugs* he did his job in Brazil, although I'm thrilled to be moving on...
Nov 21st 2016
151
Also, post 13.
Nov 16th 2016
142
For those who follow more closely - What shld the starting XI be?
Nov 18th 2016
143
honestly hard to say with the lack of consistent formation + pairings
Nov 21st 2016
150
      Well what formation would you play, in that case?
Nov 22nd 2016
158
      Would a Conte-style 3-4-3/3-5-2 work?
Nov 22nd 2016
159
           I'm biased from watching a lot of Caleb Porter, but I like the 4-2-3-1
Nov 22nd 2016
160
he gone!
Nov 21st 2016
145
http://tinyurl.com/zl6oo7n
Nov 21st 2016
147
      Landon for coach
Nov 21st 2016
149
           nah, B -- LANDON FOR PLAYER/COACH??!!
Nov 21st 2016
152
archive
Nov 21st 2016
146
first good thing to come out of Trump's America btw
Nov 21st 2016
153
FUN FACT: Klinsi was 9-1-1 in official comps in which St. Landon played
Nov 21st 2016
154
This team sucks ass regardless of who's coaching
Nov 21st 2016
155
define "team"
Nov 22nd 2016
156
There's hope with a coach that has a plan and knows what he's doing
Nov 22nd 2016
157
      RE: There's hope with a coach that has a plan and knows what he's doing
Nov 22nd 2016
161
           and Klinsi was making us 3rd tier -- 4th place at the Gold Cup??
Nov 22nd 2016
162
                yes
Nov 22nd 2016
164
fired Marty and hired Norv. i root for the US, but i'm not hopeful
Nov 22nd 2016
163
+ they called Bruce a racist cuz he said they didn't play for the shirt
Mar 24th 2017
165
let the record show I posted this shit during half time
Mar 24th 2017
166
remember when Klinsi said we would play attacking soccer?
Mar 24th 2017
167
      *dabs*
Mar 24th 2017
168
far be it for me to begrudge a victory lap, but
Mar 25th 2017
169
      Yep.
Mar 25th 2017
170
      country over agenda?
Mar 25th 2017
171
      first real game post-Klinsi going 6-0 felt like a fitting coda
Mar 25th 2017
172
How'd the Panama game go?
Mar 28th 2017
173
These MLS goofballs have bricks for feet. Just laughable first touches*
Mar 29th 2017
174
      MLS guys scored the game winning goals for Honduras + Panama
Oct 10th 2017
176
           lolz
Oct 10th 2017
183
what a disgrace.
Oct 10th 2017
175
much deserved
Oct 10th 2017
177
Gut the program. Burn it all. Get every bit of rot out. US Soccer 2.0 be...
Oct 10th 2017
178
agree. Gulati gotta go. Bradley is no longer first choice. RIP Clint.
Oct 10th 2017
181
if a player is under 30 and good enough to play overseas
Oct 10th 2017
182
usa soccer dividing by zero
Oct 10th 2017
179
holy.
Oct 10th 2017
180
Klinsi was worth eleventy grillion Bruce Arenas, that's for fucking sure
Oct 10th 2017
184
at the very least he was trying to get creative with the program.
Oct 10th 2017
186

soundsop
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Mon Dec-12-11 10:51 PM

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1. "for you mathematicians out there: 4 * 0 = 0"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

>4 wins in the
>knockouts where Bradley couldn't produce?

  

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ShawndmeSlanted
Member since Oct 30th 2004
42917 posts
Mon Dec-12-11 11:08 PM

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2. "worrying about other men's money"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

---
"though time has passed, im still the future" (c) black thought

  

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all stah
Member since Sep 03rd 2005
23470 posts
Mon Dec-12-11 11:12 PM

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3. "You and jersey should jump in a kayak and sing yiddish tunes"
In response to Reply # 0
Mon Dec-12-11 11:13 PM by all stah

          

and eat sardines together.

  

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thejerseytornado
Member since Dec 24th 2005
26250 posts
Tue Mar-27-12 07:35 AM

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10. "did you just make a jew joke?"
In response to Reply # 3


  

          

not cool.
-----------
It's only funny till someone gets mad. Then it's hilarious.

  

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Buck
Member since Feb 15th 2005
15657 posts
Tue Mar-27-12 08:20 AM

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11. "To be fair, he didn't *just* make it. It was three months ago."
In response to Reply # 10


  

          

My question is: kayak?

  

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likwit_crew
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Tue Dec-13-11 04:20 AM

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4. "Worst agenda in OKSports. n/m"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

_____________________________________________

Long Beach is the spot where I serve my caine - Snoop

  

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celery77
Member since Aug 04th 2005
25307 posts
Tue Dec-13-11 10:48 AM

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5. "oh so when the 'cism is anti-American, okp can't be bothered to care?"
In response to Reply # 4


  

          

___________

HOPE!
https://vine.co/v/i7JjIBL3Qix
https://vine.co/v/i7JtqEFwxDu

  

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all stah
Member since Sep 03rd 2005
23470 posts
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9. "RE: oh so when the 'cism is anti-American, okp can't be bothered to care..."
In response to Reply # 5


          

you're like a soccer version of basa.

  

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celery77
Member since Aug 04th 2005
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Mon Mar-26-12 11:58 PM

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6. "o you thought we were blaming that debacle on Porter? Wrong."
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

people who ACTUALLY watch American soccer were saying we were headed for disaster a month ahead of time. maybe Klinsmann can kick down some of that fat check next time and pick up a little useful advice -- you can't drive like a Porsche when you can only afford a Dodge.

_____________________________________________________

Armchair Analyst: 4-3-3 & the new American orthodoxy
FEBRUARY 17, 2012
Matthew Doyle
MLSsoccer.com

Lucas Biglia and Rasmus Elm come together at midfield, a scene played out repeatedly in AZ Alkmaars 1-0 win over Anderlecht in Thursdays Europa League clash.

Elm, as is his knack, wins the 50-50 ball, holds off Biglia and looks for all the world as if hes going to play square and short to Maarten Martens. It is the right play, the low-risk play, the expected play.

But Elm, without even picking his head up, launches a 40-yard switch to a streaking Roy Beerens down the right wing, and AZ are off to the races. Beerens, a pacy, tricky winger, goes directly at Olivier Deschacht, turning the Belgian one way, then the other, then back again. Theyre at the edge of the box now, and Charlison Benschop is diving toward the near post, dragging the Anderlecht central defense with him.

Klinsmann talks tactics on USsoccer.com

Deschacht, half on his backside now, makes a desperate lunge and to the relief of the traveling fans gets a toe to the ball, sending it out for a corner.

Threat over. For the moment.

Minutes later, though, the same situation plays out down the other flank. Again. And again. And again. It was 1-0, but it could have been 4-0 or 5-0 as easily.

Anderlecht spent Thursday afternoon chasing shadows, ending on the wrong side of a lesson from one of the worlds great practitioners of the 4-3-3.

Earlier that afternoon, on the other side of the world, the US Under-23 roster for the upcoming friendly against Mexico was announced, and it included four out-and-out wingers as well as several others who could, potentially, fill that role.

It did not, however, include Rasmus Elm. Nor did it include Roy Beerens. And that is an issue.

The 4-3-3 was a Brazilian invention of the early 1960s, designed mostly to give some defensive structure to a team built around Garrinchas anarchic talent both on and off the ball. Pel may be the greatest player in the history of the game, but in Brazil, it is the Little Bird who is the most beloved, who defined an era and to whom all great wingers must be compared.

What made Garrincha special (and Beerens, though magnitudes less so) was his ability, time after time, to beat the man in front of him with the ball on his foot and make a telling play. Or, should you decide to crowd him and deny him room to receive a pass, hed simply turn into space and run past you, getting onto the end of one of those 40-yard passes, delivered, in his time, by Didi (the Xavi of his day) or Nito (the Busquets).

Caleb Porters US roster is meant to play the game the way AZ played it Thursday, and in everyones wildest dreams the way that Brazil played it 50 years ago.

But there is no Garrincha, no Beerens on this squad, wingers to beat the opposing fullbacks into submission. There is no Elm or Didi, central midfielders who excel at spreading the field and placing a first-time ball into space rather than at feet.

And while there is institutional desire in US soccer to adapt and become a 4-3-3 country in the Dutch mold, few of the players on the squad have been drilled in the finer points of the formations tactics either as youths or pros. Of the players on the roster, only Teal Bunbury plays in the 4-3-3 regularly for his club team.

Brek Shea is wonderful in the open field, but lacks the one-vs.-one ability so necessary for wingers in the system. He failed to beat his man with the ball on his foot a single time against Panama last month, and the scouting report was out on him in MLS by mid-August: Dont let him receive the ball at pace, and he wont hurt you.

Freddy Adu, meanwhile, lacks the pace and instincts to threaten teams off the ball on the flank. Joe Gyau could potentially be the answer, but he remains a head-down dribbler at this stage of his development.

In the midfield, I am a great fan of Dilly Duka, but switching the point of attack directly into a wingers run is not one of his strong suits. Same for Mix Diskerud, whos better at small combination play.

Michael Stephens and Jared Jeffrey, meanwhile, have both shown facility for connecting passes, but again not first time, and not into space.

The 4-3-3 is a thing of beauty when it works, which is why neutral fans tend to adore the teams that employ it well. But it takes time, discipline, repetition, instincts and distinct skill sets to make it happen.

Right now, I dont see those skills on the US team, either Porters U-23s, or Klinsmanns full national side. In switching to the 4-3-3 at this juncture, the US is trying to jump straight to calculus without first having mastered algebra.

Expect some real, severe growing pains along the way. Olympic qualifying starts next month, and thatll be the first test of this new American orthodoxy. If they dont get high marks, they'll be stuck watching how the 4-3-3 really functions every time they see the masters work it.

On television.

___________

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calminvasion
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7. "2.5m sounds like nothing, lol @ bradley was making less than an"
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average mid-major bball coach though

  

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all stah
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8. "RE: for you mathematicians out there: Klinsmann apparently = 4 Bob Brad..."
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all i know is adu belongs on the senior squad.



  

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celery77
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12. "so remember the MLS team Klinsi "consulted" prior to the US job?"
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a year later, and they're now the worst team in the history of MLS.

Toronto FC, just a year after having paid Klinsmann to "transform" their team into a playoff contender after years of ineptitude, have actually found a way to somehow BACKSLIDE from an already poor position, as they have now opened the 2012 campaign with 8 consecutive losses, a new MLS record, under the coach and technical staff that Klinsmann got paid to hire in Toronto.

and the biggest criticism of Aaron Winter, Klinsmann's recommended hire? Winter is attempting to implement a system first (4-3-3, the en vogue Duth style), worry about the talent second, even though it would appear painfully obvious that the system isn't working, because the talent doesn't fit it. sound familiar? at all?

money well spent in Toronto, huh? I bet they're just giddy over that investment they made in Klinsmann, same as we'll be in 2014, right?

___________

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Buck
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Tue May-08-12 12:36 PM

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13. "I'm with ya, Celery. And I say bring back Arena."
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magilla vanilla
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18. "Bruce "Kasey Keller is my best keeper" Arena? Pass."
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---------------------------------
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"This (and every, actually) conversation needs more Chesterton and less Mike Francesa." - Walleye

  

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celery77
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22. "the guy that got further than any US coach in recent history??"
In response to Reply # 18
Tue May-08-12 01:32 PM by celery77

  

          

you're gonna say that guy is not qualified to be the USMNT coach?

and look -- I've accepted the inevitable. Klinsmann is going to bomb in 2014 clearing the way for Jason Kreis to step in with low expectations right after. THEN we'll really see the benefits of the MLS academies that have been growing during this decade...

___________

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magilla vanilla
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185. "Hate to say I told you so. He stuck with TIMMAY one cycle too long too. "
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---------------------------------
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"This (and every, actually) conversation needs more Chesterton and less Mike Francesa." - Walleye

  

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HowieDooem
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14. "You of all people should be glad..."
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TFC makes the Timbers look not quite so shitty by comparison.

  

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celery77
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15. "if the guy who set up the historic failure wasn't my nat'l team coach"
In response to Reply # 14


  

          

yeah, I'd think it's grand.

unfortunately, US Soccer and Sunil Gulati seem no wiser than the Canadians when it comes to being tricked out of large piles of money by a handsome German with a famous name.

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HowieDooem
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16. "I have a tough time seeing how we'll be good in 2014"
In response to Reply # 15


  

          

regardless of who's coaching. Dempsey and Donovan's careers might be on the downswing, we still don't have any strikers or central defense, the kid from California at La Masia will only be like 14, etc. In short, we still don't have the players to play anything resembling attractive soccer. If Klinsmann can help get the development system sorted, I would judge his tenure a success (obviously we won't know this for a while). But we're still better served being pragmatic for the time being.

And for the superstitious:
1990: Bad
1994: 2nd Round
1998: Bad
2002: QFinals
2006: Bad
2010: 2nd Round
2014: history indicates bad

  

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celery77
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17. "the development system is being sorted by MLS"
In response to Reply # 16


  

          

Klinsmann has nothing to do with it.

all he's really done is require the youth coaches at all levels of US Soccer to play the same 4-3-3 so that players are "more prepared" to enter the senior national setup (and that's why we missed out on the Olympics this year, because again the 4-3-3 with North American talent failed spectacularly). never mind that trying to transform a nation's "soccer culture" by implementing tacts at the youth national level is asinine, let's be clear that Klinsmann deserves NONE of the credit when MLS youth academies start graduating productive players at a higher rate going forward.

that work was being done by the pro clubs in the US before Klinsmann arrived, and will continue after Klinsmann leaves.

and obviously I can accept the US losing, but if it seems to me that the team is underperforming due to managerial / tactical decisions, I trust we will all be equally as hard on Klinsmann while he fails as we were on Bob Bradley while he was succeeding, because simply fiddling with the youth ranks doesn't recuse my nat'l team coach from the expectation of good results.

___________

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magilla vanilla
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20. "So what national team managers CAN take credit for developing youth?"
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90 percent of the Spanish team was made at La Masia. The English youth are brought up by the club academies. Most of the Dutch team is a product of the Ajax academy. That's not a failing of a manager; that's called the basic reality of modern football. Where Klinsy CAN take credit, if he does it right, is in identifying the right guys to take from those academies. . . i.e. not hyping up the likes of Sacha Klejstan or Beckerman or fucking Brek Shea before they've done anything.

---------------------------------
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"This (and every, actually) conversation needs more Chesterton and less Mike Francesa." - Walleye

  

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sfMatt
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24. "^^^^^"
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celery77
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26. "exactly right -- it's not the NT's manager's job to develop youth"
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that's WHY it's so asinine when people claim Klinsmann will accomplish that. his job is to assemble the seniors. that's all it should be. if he does that well, I'll shut up, but I've said plenty of times (and I've seen people say it plenty about OTHER countries) that system first, talent second is the stupidest thing a national team coach can do, yet still we pretend as if Klinsmann knows something we don't...

___________

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sfMatt
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23. "I'm actually ready to give Reyna a lot of the credit for that..."
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sfMatt
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25. "this really is stupid though..."
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>all he's really done is require the youth coaches at all
>levels of US Soccer to play the same 4-3-3

  

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bshelly
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19. "u seem mad"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

----
bshelly

"You (Fisher) could get fired, Les Snead could get fired, Kevin Demoff could get fired, but I will always be Eric Dickerson.” (c) The God

  

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magilla vanilla
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21. "Furious, even."
In response to Reply # 19


  

          

---------------------------------
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"This (and every, actually) conversation needs more Chesterton and less Mike Francesa." - Walleye

  

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ThaTruth
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27. "US Soccer heads(not named celery), what do you think of the Bundesliga....."
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pipeline that Klinsmann is apparently establishing?

I guess African-American US servicemen dropped a lot of seeds over in the land of Hitler and a lot of their offspring have developed into some decent futbol talent.

________________________________________
"Stay out the dark, cause if I catch you when the sun is down..."
https://youtu.be/eaaTxVRG06c?t=89

  

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vik
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28. "just field the strongest team within FIFA regulations"
In response to Reply # 27


  

          

i'm cool with it

if the US can make it to a final sometime, mayhaps more kids born here will take more of an interest and that'll lead to less of a reliance on foreign-born players in the future

but plenty of other countries field foreign-born players

and klinsmann might as well take advantage of his German connections

---

But hell, what do I know?

  

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ThaTruth
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29. "the only way we'll every make noise with "american-born" talent is..."
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if we get kids in the inner cities playing soccer and its not as much a race thing as it is a class thing.

Right now soccer is mainly a rich kids sport, the problem is most rich kids have so many other options besides sports so their not necessarily as driven to succeed in sports as their primary option for success they way kids from poorer areas are.

________________________________________
"Stay out the dark, cause if I catch you when the sun is down..."
https://youtu.be/eaaTxVRG06c?t=89

  

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magilla vanilla
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30. "lolwut"
In response to Reply # 29


  

          

>soccer is mainly a rich kids sport

---------------------------------
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"This (and every, actually) conversation needs more Chesterton and less Mike Francesa." - Walleye

  

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ThaTruth
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31. "RE: lolwut"
In response to Reply # 30


          

>>soccer is mainly a rich kids sport

in the US it is

________________________________________
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GriftyMcgrift
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42. "competitive(club) soccer definately"
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atleast when i played.

  

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celery77
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33. "Bundesliga is solid (but Bob Bradley was targeting the same guys)"
In response to Reply # 27


  

          

to give Klinsmann credit for exploiting that pipeline is false. Jermaine Jones was already capping under Bradley and he was pursuing the same passport holders Klinsmann has since recruited.

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celery77
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32. "welcome to the party, mainstream media! (Klinsi-truther swipe)"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

http://msn.foxsports.com/foxsoccer/usa/story/jurgen-klinsmann-may-be-problem-to-team-struggles-usa-national-team-091012

Klinsmann the cause of USA's woes?

Needless to say, USA's manager Jurgen Klinsmann remains upbeat.

When asked what it would be like if his squad were to lose to Jamaica for a second time in five days on Monday, Klinsmann quickly replied, ''No, we won't (lose). Don't worry.''

Yet for all intents and purposes, the status quo had outstayed its welcome. The United States had been playing more or less the same way for decades relying on organization, sound defense, fitness and athleticism, ruggedness and an unshakable belief in the breakaway and the long ball. But all those qualities, bedrock to six consecutive World Cup qualifications and anything else the US ever achieved on a soccer field, had outlived their utility. Overnight, they had grown intolerable.

Like a political candidate sweeping into office on the promise of change, better results and permanent sunshine, Klinsmann was to instantly ameliorate life as we knew it. When Bob Bradley was fired for allegedly letting his team turn stale, the United States Soccer Federation appointed the long-since longed-for Klinsmann who had retooled Germany from stodgy results-grinders to swashbuckling young ball-dazzlers in his last spell as a national team coach. There was talk of a culture change and the next level. We, the soccer media, jumped on the bandwagon if we didnt pull it ourselves.

On Aug. 1, three days after landing the job, Klinsmann strolled casually onto a stage, wearing sneakers below his suit, for a Monday morning press conference at Niketown in mid-town Manhattan. He spoke of playing a proactive style, of finding a soccer identity for America that represents and utilizes its diversity, and of building on the foundations laid by his predecessors.

In the following weeks, he defined proactive as a technical, high-paced, high-pressure system that rapidly transitions from defending to attacking by the grace of a back line thats strong on the ball. Whereas most national team coaches use practice to keep players healthy and go through basic tactics, Klinsmanns two-a-days or three-a-days lingered endlessly on technique, fitness and the tenets of his system. He introduced his players to early-morning empty-stomach runs, brought in nutritionists and scheduled team yoga sessions. It was a new dawn indeed.

Thirteen months and seventeen games on (in which Klinsmann went 8-6-3), one cant help but wonder whats become of the lofty goals. Yes, the US has beaten Italy for the first time ever and taken its first win on Mexican soil too. But the longer the Klinsmann era has gone, the more his team has looked like Bradleys. Or Bruce Arenas. Or Steve Sampsons.

In its first ever loss to Jamaica in a World Cup Qualifier on Friday, the team was back to playing an unimaginative 4-4-2 system with a deep-sitting holding midfielder and two wide players whose primary concern was defensive. It looked for all the world like a bad impression of a Bob Bradley team, who mostly played with two holding midfielders in an otherwise identical 4-4-2. For no longer than 20-minute flashes has the US played the advertised attractive possession-soccer while Klinsmann has been in charge. The rest of the time it has lumbered after the ball, sitting deep and showing little initiative. Certainly, it eked out the wins over Mexico and Italy deploying tactics that in no way resembled Klinsmanns blueprint and in every way resembled the good old American way of winning soccer games.

The only significant demographic introduced to the team by Klinsmann, meanwhile, was the strange multitude of Germans born to American servicemen whose gene pool surely should be conserved for the US national teams of the future a trend actually set in motion by Bradley.

After all the fuss about reinvention, the team looks more or less the same in style and personnel, relying on or deeming unworthy exactly same players as Bradley did a generation clearly set in its ways and for the most part ill-equipped to handle a technical helter-skelter philosophy. It isnt in their footballing DNA. The US team, to use a terrible sporting clich, is what it is, no matter who is in charge.

Klinsmanns aspirational notions shouldnt be held against him. The program certainly was in need of some ambition. But if his conditioning is on the cutting edge and his lifestyle management far-reaching, he has failed to settle on the house style he declared imperative. His call-ups have been unpredictable and his insistence on playing central midfielders out wide, robbing the team of width, questionable. When it comes to the actual coaching of a soccer team, Klinsmann has made no impression at all in his time in charge.

The hour is still early and the sample size small. But with just four points from three qualifiers and advancement into the fourth qualifying stage no longer straightforward, the realization dawns that the match might not be as hoped for and the marriage not guaranteed to always be a happy one.

The revolution has not come.


Leander Schaerlaeckens has written about soccer for the New York Times, the Guardian, ESPN The Magazine and World Soccer. Follow him on Twitter @LeanderOnFOX.

___________

HOPE!
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DunDaDa
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34. "this article is a bit reactionary."
In response to Reply # 32


  

          

----------------------------------------------------------------
respect the gift.

  

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celery77
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35. "pointing out use of recycled tactics by our "visionary" = reactionary?"
In response to Reply # 34


  

          

publish date is reactionary, no doubt, but the info in there is spot on. what we were promised and what we have received don't align (perhaps he panicked after his top-down mandated 4-3-3 completely imploded in the Olympic qualifying campaign?).

at the moment, we're paying 4x as much for a coach to run out the same tactics as Bob Bradley, except Bradley never handed in a historically poor result (we've never lost in Jamaica before) in a game that mattered. Klinsmann deserves every bit of criticism he's facing.

___________

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celery77
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36. "11 Gs, 6 GA in WCQ, never had less than 13, more than 3 in last 3 WCQs"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

so we're paying a guy 4x as much and through the 1st stretch of WCQ he's underperformed the previous 3 campaigns in both attacking and defensive measures.

yes, yes -- we're likely going to qualify for the WC, but that doesn't change the fact that our team has gotten WORSE, not better, under our over-priced foreign coach.

all y'all Soccernomicsphiles get at me, because the argument that a high priced coach is the stepping stone to success is patent bullshit and I blame that book for spreading the lies.

___________

HOPE!
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sfMatt
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37. "all I'm saying is"
In response to Reply # 36


  

          

...I'm watching Porter's work closely over the next two years

You keep us posted on that.

  

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DunDaDa
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38. "Sigi deserves a look as well."
In response to Reply # 37


  

          

----------------------------------------------------------------
respect the gift.

  

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celery77
Member since Aug 04th 2005
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40. "Sigi's a one-dimensional direct play coach, he can kiss my ass"
In response to Reply # 38


  

          

he's a poor man's Bruce Arena.

MLS should be happy to have him, but the UMSNT should be looking for someone with a bit larger vision.

___________

HOPE!
https://vine.co/v/i7JjIBL3Qix
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B9
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41. "At what? A Spanx collection?"
In response to Reply # 38


          

  

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celery77
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39. "couldn't be more thrilled to have a ticket, couldn't be more unsure"
In response to Reply # 37


  

          

about how Porter will do. he might do great, he might not, I really don't know, but yeah -- I'm thrilled to be have a seat at the show, because I'll be watching very, very closely, too.

and for my money, the coach after Brazil should be Jason Kreis. Porter can work on building a similar resume in MLS, then put his name into the mix once Kreis has had his shot.

___________

HOPE!
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celery77
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43. "Klinsi: "I was a euro-snob elitist prick. I regret the error." (swipe)"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

so I guess the good news is that he's still learning on the job?

___________________________________________________________________

http://www.mlssoccer.com/news/article/2013/01/28/klinsmann-mls-talent-pool-deeper-first-expected

Klinsmann: MLS talent pool deeper than first expected
January 28, 2013
Darrell Lovell
MLSsoccer.com

HOUSTON Whatever happens between the US national team and their counterparts from Canada here on Tuesday, Jurgen Klinsmann has learned at least one thing about the crop of players trying to win his favor.

The last three weeks showed us that we maybe have a deeper pool than we thought, Klinsmann told reporters before Sundays training session. We have a lot of good players coming through, and their job is to challenge whoevers in front of them. It was great to see theres a next generation of players that are eager and hungry to get to the next level."

Many of the challengers in the current camp come from the ranks of Major League Soccer, and with the main focus of the camp being to indoctrinate a young or inexperienced group to the international level, Klinsmann feels that the quality in the US is progressing in the right direction.

I think MLS is definitely improving every year and has a very strong case. A lot of teams really play good quality stuff there, Klinsmann said. We tell the players, we chart them individually, and if theyre better off here thats fine with us. At the end of the day they have to prove it in the national team environment no matter if theyre playing Mexico or Europe.

All that matters is what they bring to the national team program.

Darrell Lovell covers the Houston Dynamo for MLSsoccer.com.

___________

HOPE!
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soundsop
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44. "OMAR COMING"
In response to Reply # 43


  

          

  

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celery77
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45. "*whistles proudly* (and HOLY SHIT @ that avy lmao!)"
In response to Reply # 44


  

          

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Buck
Member since Feb 15th 2005
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46. "So where do we think MLS rates nowadays?"
In response to Reply # 43


  

          

Still high League 1/low Championship?

  

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celery77
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47. "the best MLS teams would compete for promotion to EPL imo"
In response to Reply # 46


  

          

and the quality stays noticeably improving year by year.

___________

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Buck
Member since Feb 15th 2005
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48. "That's a bold statement."
In response to Reply # 47


  

          

  

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celery77
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49. "is it? how many EPL teams could Robbie Keane start for right today?"
In response to Reply # 48


  

          

and he played last season alongside Landon Donovan, who we've seen put on the Everton blue and do his thing. and the beast in the back Omar would be attacking those David Beckham set pieces and say what you want about Sexy Becksy you have to still admit there is NO ONE IN THE WORLD better at dead ball service.

you seriously don't think that team could compete in the Championship?

don't be fooled by the $$$. the talent is there.

___________

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Buck
Member since Feb 15th 2005
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50. "Well, the question isn't whether the best US players are EPL quality."
In response to Reply # 49


  

          

It's long been established that they are. I guess my question is about top-to-bottom roster quality, not so much Landon Donovan.

  

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celery77
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51. "MLS rosters = 30 players now so the starting XI is usually pretty solid"
In response to Reply # 50


  

          

the middle to lower level teams generally do have some pretty weak links in specific areas (hence their place in the standings) but the top level teams are generally running out very competitive XIs where there is an organized system that highlights the strength of each player, minimizes their weakness (you know, like good soccer tactics do).

so yeah -- I don't think the English Championship is on some "next level" from MLS at this point really. the MLS is long on athleticism, short on technical/tactics, and I think a team of elite athletes would be competitive in the Champsionship even if their technique wasn't EPL quality exactly.

___________

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Buck
Member since Feb 15th 2005
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53. "We need an Anglo-American Cup."
In response to Reply # 51


  

          

  

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theothursdays
Member since Aug 05th 2002
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52. "summary: in America we have a ton of mediocre interchangeable players"
In response to Reply # 43
Mon Jan-28-13 03:32 PM by theothursdays

  

          

We have Clint Dempsey




Tim Howard
Unmotivated Cakes



Then about 30 players who are all going to produce similar results given the time to play together.


What we need is more players to put up in the Dempsey category. And it's not like Dempsey is contending for the world XI or anything. He's a fringe starter for a fringe Champions League team.

----

  

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celery77
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54. ""In conversation after conversation, the same themes emerged" (swipe)"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

all you self-hating eurosnobs should be taking a long, sobering look in the mirror right now. we quadrupled Bob Bradley's salary for THIS?? it was a travesty at the time of the hire, it's an even larger travesty now. at least this lessons the pressure on Jason Kreis when he takes the job next.

note: this is only a partial swipe with key points, full article is much longer if you want to click through the link.

_____________________________________________________________________

http://aol.sportingnews.com/soccer/story/2013-03-19/jurgen-klinsmann-us-mens-soccer-coach-national-team-usa-american-world-cup-2013

In conversation after conversation, the same themes emerged:

Klinsmann and chief assistant Martin Vasquez either lack the tactical acumen and game-day chops to successfully lead the team or fail to communicate their wishes effectively.

Too much time and too many resources are spent on initiatives that dont translate to the field.

Constant lineup changes and building resentment over the perceived importance and attitude of the German-born players are harming team chemistry.

This group isnt on the same page with its coach or each other, and the World Cup campaign might be in peril unless that changes. Sources painted a picture of a coach whose big ideas might not fit a team he could be in danger of losing.

___________

HOPE!
https://vine.co/v/i7JjIBL3Qix
https://vine.co/v/i7JtqEFwxDu

  

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DunDaDa
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55. "who would you bring in at this point?"
In response to Reply # 54


  

          

----------------------------------------------------------------
respect the gift.

  

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celery77
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56. "Klinsmann gets this cycle to fail, then hire either Kinnear or Kreis"
In response to Reply # 55


  

          

but Klinsi is just plain out of his depth with the USMNT program right now. maybe he'll prove me wrong come World Cup time, but while talent might not be fantastic in the US pool right now, he's making problems for himself on too many occasions.

and spending 4x the amount we spent on Bob Bradley is just dumb eurosnobbery and I'm disappointed to see my FA fall prey to it as well. Gulati should prolly be fired along with Klinsi when the time comes.

___________

HOPE!
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Castro
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57. "not Kreis. Kinnear, yes. "
In response to Reply # 56


  

          

------------------
One Hundred.

  

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sfMatt
Member since Jun 20th 2002
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58. "I see you protecting your coach"
In response to Reply # 56


  

          

(just saying...)

  

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celery77
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59. "Porter could stand to get a single MLS victory first"
In response to Reply # 58


  

          

he's young, he has time. he is *definitely* thinking about the game on a different level than most US coaches, though.

___________

HOPE!
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sfMatt
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60. ";)"
In response to Reply # 59


  

          

  

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celery77
Member since Aug 04th 2005
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61. "Don Garber: Klinsmann's treatment of Landon was "inexcusable""
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

Don Garber hastily called for a press conference to talk about Klinsmann today, proceeded to blast Klinsmann in public. I love it. You guys, I loooooove it. Garber stuck up for Bradley and Dempsey as well, talked about Klinsmann's comments as being damaging to the league. I'm sure everyone will latch on to the Donovan comment below (which couldn't be more correct) but at this point with the MLS Commish, seated USSF board member going at you like this in public? Klinsmann should feel some heat...

_________________________________________________________________

http://www.theguardian.com/football/2014/oct/15/mls-commissioner-jurgen-klinsmann-exclude-landon-donovan-world-cup

MLS chief criticises Jürgen Klinsmann for excluding Landon Donovan from World Cup

•Don Garber: Donovan’s treatment was inexcusable
•Garber ‘infuriated’ by Klinsmann’s comments on MLS

MLS commissioner Don Garber has attacked Jürgen Klinsmann’s decision to not take Landon Donovan to the 2014 World Cup in Brazil.

Garber, also member of the United States Soccer Federation board of directors, held a conference call to refute statements from Klinsmann, the USA manager, that US players returning to the MLS to play from Europe was affecting their form and his ability to build a strong squad.

Garber strongly denied those accusations, and went on to say that the criticism of Clint Dempsey, who moved to MLS from the Premier League, and Michael Bradley, who returned to play for Toronto FC after a spell in Serie A with Roma, was following a patter than began with Donovan, who retired from international football on Saturday after a friendly against Ecuador.

“I believe that Landon should have been in Brazil,” said Garber. “Because his performance dictated it ... His treatment was inexcusable.” He also said that Klinsman’s comments were harming the league and were “personally infuriating”. ““I will do everything and anything to defend our league, players & owners.

“I think needs to think very hard about how he manages himself publicly.”

___________

HOPE!
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https://vine.co/v/i7JtqEFwxDu

  

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sfMatt
Member since Jun 20th 2002
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62. "Don Garber is a fucking CLOWN and this is pathetic"
In response to Reply # 61


  

          

JK isn't feeling heat, because he doesn't give a shit.

I'm not all 100% rah rah JK is awesome - far from it. But Garber not wanting the coach of our national team to criticize players or this cute league is beyond comical.

  

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celery77
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64. "if the current Kaiser of US Soccer doesn't give a shit, thats concerning"
In response to Reply # 62


  

          

US Soccer isn't where it's at because Klinsmann scored lots of goals for Tottenham. It's where it's at because of the Americans who have been pursuing a long dream against everyone's better advice.

And as the domestic league -- which played a positive, integral part in the overwhelming majority of players' careers that just competed for us in 2014 -- pushes to be taken seriously as an internationally reputable league, it doesn't help to have the coach of the national team constantly harping on it, criticizing his stars for playing in it, and essentially taking pot shots at it every time he's given a chance in the press.

Don Garber SHOULD be mad. If he's hearing from players or agents that they won't come to MLS because of perceived quality problems, that's a problem they've been fighting for all 20 years of the league's existence. Having the coach pile on there doesn't help, ESPECIALLY when that coach has been extremely reliant on MLS produced, MLS exclusive talent (Beckerman, Besler, Gonzalez, Zusi, even a Brad Evans).

I know some will pat Garber on the head, but it would be worse if he just let the USMNT coach continue using his pulpit to insult domestic league unchallenged.

___________

HOPE!
https://vine.co/v/i7JjIBL3Qix
https://vine.co/v/i7JtqEFwxDu

  

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sfMatt
Member since Jun 20th 2002
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80. "he doesn't give a shit, because his survival is about one thing"
In response to Reply # 64


  

          

and that's the success of the national team.

He gives a shit in the sense that he knows Garber and the MLS way is holding us back. MLS is a broken crawling league with very little ability to contribute to our on-field progress.

  

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PROMO
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74. "i'm saying..."
In response to Reply # 62


  

          

>JK isn't feeling heat, because he doesn't give a shit.
>
>I'm not all 100% rah rah JK is awesome - far from it. But
>Garber not wanting the coach of our national team to criticize
>players or this cute league is beyond comical.
>

i every other league around the world this happens during every international cycle. talk about making mountains out of mole hills.

STAND OUT HAND OUTS: http://basquiatwhenipaint.tumblr.com

TWEET ME: @PROMO206

  

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celery77
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75. "Gus Hiddink said Eredivisie's structure is bad, players were hurt by it?"
In response to Reply # 74


  

          

I guess I don't read the Dutch press, so I must have missed that.

Y'all just comfortable with bashing US Soccer. Don Garber, on the other hand, has a tangible problem in fighting the perception that MLS is somehow inferior, and then he's got a dude reaping the benefits of the 20 years of work put in by MLS pioneers who goes around undercutting him every time a microphone gets put in his face. Garber has every right to push back on Klinsmann on this.

___________

HOPE!
https://vine.co/v/i7JjIBL3Qix
https://vine.co/v/i7JtqEFwxDu

  

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thejerseytornado
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Thu Oct-16-14 09:34 AM

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76. "pretty much every league i know has a weird relation w/ their NT"
In response to Reply # 75


  

          

in england, it's about the league not doing enough to promote english players, in spain, barca and real hate how much it exhausts their players and other teams think their academy players get undervalued and/or overlooked (and thus move to barca/real for exposure as well as because big clubs), i'm sure there's some shit w/ france, brazil's got its issues after 2014, etc.

not this aggressive, but it's almost never the truth that the NT and the country's league are working anywhere near lockstep.
-----------
Y'all stupid...should've tanked for Lebron/Wiggins in 2014 -Rex LongFellow

Its 2014...there are computers in glasses and people stunt after hitting the ball far. Get over it. -Cenario

It's only funny till someone gets mad. Then it's hilariou

  

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sfMatt
Member since Jun 20th 2002
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Thu Oct-16-14 12:43 PM

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79. "which is completely natural, and predictable..."
In response to Reply # 76


  

          

The NT manager has a singular objective in mind and that's his team winning. And make no mistake it does take contributions from domestic clubs to make that possible. While clubs whose management values a "national mission" for success are certainly out there - the vast majority have to place their own survival ahead of all else.

>in england, it's about the league not doing enough to promote
>english players, in spain, barca and real hate how much it
>exhausts their players and other teams think their academy
>players get undervalued and/or overlooked (and thus move to
>barca/real for exposure as well as because big clubs), i'm
>sure there's some shit w/ france, brazil's got its issues
>after 2014, etc.
>
>not this aggressive, but it's almost never the truth that the
>NT and the country's league are working anywhere near
>lockstep.
>-----------
>Y'all stupid...should've tanked for Lebron/Wiggins in 2014
>-Rex LongFellow
>
>Its 2014...there are computers in glasses and people stunt
>after hitting the ball far. Get over it. -Cenario
>
>It's only funny till someone gets mad. Then it's hilariou

  

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celery77
Member since Aug 04th 2005
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Thu Oct-16-14 01:42 PM

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84. "there's "weird," and there's openly hostile"
In response to Reply # 76


  

          

The success of the USMNT is inextricably linked to the nascent success of 20-year-old MLS. Klinsmann does no one any favors by constantly criticizing and disparaging the efforts of the players trying to make it work.

___________

HOPE!
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https://vine.co/v/i7JtqEFwxDu

  

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nighttripper
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77. "national teams' coaches bitch about leagues & clubs all the time + vice ..."
In response to Reply # 75


  

          

e.g. Wenger's long running beef with FFF and successive France coaches

  

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sfMatt
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81. "wait wait wait... "SOMEHOW INFERIOR" !??"
In response to Reply # 75


  

          

  

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celery77
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Thu Oct-16-14 01:39 PM

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83. "a team full of MLS stars did better than a team of EPL stars at the WC"
In response to Reply # 81


  

          

MLS has nothing to feel sorry about after that.

___________

HOPE!
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cgonz00cc
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Wed Oct-15-14 03:55 PM

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63. "Jurgen's response will be a wanking motion w his hand"
In response to Reply # 61


  

          

  

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celery77
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65. "same tactical team talk he gave prior to facing Germany"
In response to Reply # 63


  

          

will be familiar to everyone in the US Soccer camp

___________

HOPE!
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cgonz00cc
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Wed Oct-15-14 05:02 PM

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68. "same thing landy was doing while Dempsey scored in his 3rd straight WC"
In response to Reply # 65


  

          

  

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celery77
Member since Aug 04th 2005
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69. "a blessing for Clint he had the league St. Landon built to prep for it"
In response to Reply # 68


  

          

Because Deuce sure as shit wasn't playing at the managerial caorusel that is Tottenham

___________

HOPE!
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cgonz00cc
Member since Aug 01st 2002
32963 posts
Wed Oct-15-14 05:31 PM

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70. "LOL you on your O_E today huh?"
In response to Reply # 69


  

          

  

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celery77
Member since Aug 04th 2005
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Wed Oct-15-14 05:52 PM

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71. "Soccer Don drew those battle lines, I've BEEN ready #TeamSoccer"
In response to Reply # 70


  

          

___________

HOPE!
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cgonz00cc
Member since Aug 01st 2002
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Thu Oct-16-14 10:06 AM

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78. "no I mean lying"
In response to Reply # 71


  

          

Like you implying Dempsey's 14 MLS games somehow prepared him for a big stage better than 200+ games in the EPL

  

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HowieDooem
Member since Jun 17th 2002
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Wed Oct-15-14 04:28 PM

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66. "What a waste of time"
In response to Reply # 61


  

          

  

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celery77
Member since Aug 04th 2005
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Wed Oct-15-14 04:50 PM

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67. "uhhhh, I think you meant best US Soccer beef since Harkes + Wynalda"
In response to Reply # 66


  

          

___________

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BrooklynWHAT
Member since Jun 15th 2007
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Wed Oct-15-14 06:11 PM

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72. "lol Garber a ho for that."
In response to Reply # 61


  

          

<--- Big Baller World Order

  

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soundsop
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Thu Oct-16-14 12:22 AM

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73. "i'm riding with you & garber on this one"
In response to Reply # 61


  

          

  

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bshelly
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82. "still have no problem leaving him off, but Klinsy needs to shut up"
In response to Reply # 61


  

          

the comments about Landon being out of shape and all those things that are still happening now need to stop.

----
bshelly

"You (Fisher) could get fired, Les Snead could get fired, Kevin Demoff could get fired, but I will always be Eric Dickerson.” (c) The God

  

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celery77
Member since Aug 04th 2005
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Thu Oct-16-14 01:59 PM

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85. "dude used LD's send-off presser to say LD's career was a disappointment"
In response to Reply # 82


  

          

then made sure he snaked his way into the horribly awkward handshake after the substitution

Go fuck yourself, Klinsi

___________

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magilla vanilla
Member since Sep 13th 2002
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Thu Oct-16-14 04:32 PM

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87. "Let's talk about Landon's awkward departure"
In response to Reply # 85


  

          

Because most international footballers don't do "testimonials" to end their career for country. Pele did, but he's, y'know, fucking Pele. But I can't find record of Diego, Beckenbauer, Zico, Zidane, Cruyff, or any other player of that calibre having a send-off in that fashion.

My issue with Donovan is that he wants it both ways. He wants to be the poster boy for mental health in the game, but he also seems to want a great deal of attention and praise lavished upon him. And yes, he deserves a fair bit of it. But then again, I'm one of those people that HATED the Jeter farewell tour this year.

---------------------------------
Photo zine(some images NSFW): http://bit.ly/USaSPhoto

"This (and every, actually) conversation needs more Chesterton and less Mike Francesa." - Walleye

  

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celery77
Member since Aug 04th 2005
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Thu Oct-16-14 05:07 PM

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90. "Donovan didn't want the testimonial, Sunil Gulati was the one who pushed"
In response to Reply # 87


  

          

Pretty certain Landon Donovan wanted Brazil to be his farewell tour, that's why he was just pushing along into as "just another guy trying to make the team" and accepting whatever coach had in store for him. If that had to be a bench spot, so be it, his final moments with the UMSNT were to be for Brazil.

Then he got cut, has stated since he has "no relationship" with Jurgen Klinsmann, and announced his full retirement shortly after.

As for this recent game, it's been stated by Roger Bennett on the Men in Blazers podcast, who's producing a Landon Donovan documentary for ESPN with Hock Films, that during their interviews around the testimonial game, Landon said he didn't want it. He was approached about it and refused. Then Sunil Gulati kept asking, his friends and family said they would like a chance to send him off, and Landon relented. It wasn't a game for Landon. It was a game for US Soccer to recognize its Magic, its Larry Bird, the superstar that helped grow the league and served as the poster child for the entire brand for a decade+.

So yeah, it was awkward as hell, and emblematic of US Soccer at the same time, played in the weird football stadium with hardly a crowd on hand, all to manufacture a narrative for the cameras, complete with the cold, opportunistic handshake from the European to close it off. Ultimately a pretty compelling mini-portrait of all that Landon and US Soccer has gone through to get here, not triumphant, but fitting all the same.

And anyway, if you've been watching the LA Galaxy lately, they've been engaged in a season long send-off for Landon ever since he got dumped from Brazil. They've already inserted themselves legitimately into the conversation of "Best MLS team ever?" with a crazy goal differential and a possibility for a good amount of hardware based on the last two weekends and postseason. So yeah, the US Soccer game was awkward, really just opened wounds, and I'm glad Soccer Don stopped just sitting on the sidelines and decided to talk back to some of the bullshit in the air.

___________

HOPE!
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magilla vanilla
Member since Sep 13th 2002
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Fri Oct-17-14 10:28 AM

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95. "Funny how the word "no" works when it's convenient for Landy"
In response to Reply # 90


  

          

---------------------------------
Photo zine(some images NSFW): http://bit.ly/USaSPhoto

"This (and every, actually) conversation needs more Chesterton and less Mike Francesa." - Walleye

  

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j.
Member since Feb 24th 2009
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Thu Oct-16-14 03:48 PM

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86. "Lost in the mix is JK's call for MLS to adopt promotion/relegation"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

which would help increase the level tremendously, or you want to argue that this BS east/west conference and playoff system is helping the sport?

one table, relegate the bottom 2 to NASL, bring up the top 2, how hard is that?

Memphis, Minny/St. Paul, Vegas, Sacramento, all these cities screaming for MLS teams, bring em up from NASL

Why is Garber not talking about that? what better way to build a fan base and create buzz for small market teams than the prospect of making it to 1st division? and the drama and agony of relegation?

Right today, the bottom 2 teams in MLS are San Jose and Montreal. The top 2 in NASL are Minnesota and San Antonio. You can't tell me it's a bad idea.

  

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PROMO
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88. "yep. they should have relegation."
In response to Reply # 86


  

          

i don't care if the league isn't "strong enough."

if you want the sport to GROW...you've gotta give some "po-dunk" places a chance to compete with the big dawgs. it creates interest where you might not find and stories and the stories behind the game help MAKE the game.

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celery77
Member since Aug 04th 2005
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Thu Oct-16-14 04:55 PM

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89. "it's not lost, just easily dismissed for the naive euro-snobbery it is"
In response to Reply # 86


  

          

the pro/rel system was designed in a time prior to sporting clubs becoming major entertainment brands that spanned the globe. That's why leagues like the EPL have had to drastically react to the problems they created as they bankrupted clubs that bombed out of the top flight.

Yeah, it seems quaint and novel as an American fan seeing something like that, but if you consider it through the perspective of a sports executive who's trying to invest millions into a longshot project (growing domestic soccer in the US) it's idiotic. Also, if you're viewing it through the lens of a commissioner who has a responsibility to grow the brand of 20 teams, not just one or two teams, it's crazy to just throw 2-3 team brands on the trash heap every year, just to turn around and try to promote 2-3 new ones, in 2-3 new markets, with 2-3 new specific fan base challenges and ownership groups etc. etc. It's fucking dumb.

And have you been to a USL Pro game? Ever? Do you have any clue what that was like? Sheeeeit, I seen PROMO posting above me supporting this crap -- did you go to Starfire PROMO, and watch Le Toux and Zach Scott toil away for peanutes? Because if you did, you were one of a lucky few hundred who braved that terrible park, I'm well aware. Some current MLS teams are barely on MLS' level, why would they start inviting iffy markets that can't guarantee they'll be part of the ESPN contract every year? It's so nonsensical.

For Klinsmann to suggest it is dumb, it's euro-snobbery, and it does a disservice to the domestic league that is propping his USMNT up. The Soccer Don already gets asked about pro/rel in basically every press conference he ever holds, it's been that way for years, and he's emphatically stated it's not going to happen in MLS multiple times. Klinsmann needs to get the memo and shut the fuck up about it.

___________

HOPE!
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https://vine.co/v/i7JtqEFwxDu

  

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sfMatt
Member since Jun 20th 2002
10383 posts
Thu Oct-16-14 05:14 PM

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91. "The Crux of this: Don/You care about the LEAGUE"
In response to Reply # 89
Thu Oct-16-14 05:17 PM by sfMatt

  

          

A lot of the rest of us care about the SPORT, or rather, our ability to compete in the sport internationally.

You aren't wrong about the historical roots of pro/rel. And obviously owners want to protect their investment.

But MLS being closed limits our opportunity to *actually* grow the sport and develop the best players. MLS will never be a destination league the way it is operating currently. Never. Not in another 20 years. If you open it up and incentivize start-ups, you may be looking at a vastly different picture, in much shorter order. It's about pressure to innovate and push boundaries - pressure that doesn't exist currently in the supposed "top flight" of US Soccer.

Also I can't take an argument about MLS and "USMNT success" seriously, because in my mind they haven't been markedly successful. I was not impressed by what we saw out of Brazil - certainly no more than I had been in 2002, quality of opposition aside. US Soccer has stagnated. JK is trying to do something about that.

  

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celery77
Member since Aug 04th 2005
25307 posts
Thu Oct-16-14 05:39 PM

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92. "USA performed better than England in the last two World Cups"
In response to Reply # 91


  

          

remind me again why we should be looking to anything England does on the development side as an example to follow?

And sorry, there's still these niggling issues like "the current popularity of domestic soccer in the US" that stand in the way of developments like pro/rel.

"Why can't we use USL Pro?"

Let's see, for starters, we still have players in MLS living in rent-controlled affordable housing. Yet if you've been following closely, you may have noticed that the LA Galaxy launched a subsidiary USL Pro team this year (and, not coincidentally, are also about to send the most promising forward prospect in quite some time through to the USMNT in Gyassi Zardes), and next year both Seattle and Portland will be operating subsidiary USL Pro teams as well. MLS is growing the minor leagues, not Klinsmann's negative comments about US soccer.

And beyond all that, have you BEEN to a USL Pro game? Do you have any idea what the state of that league is like? Sheeeeit, one of the Timbers coaching staff still can't walk right because he suffered a severe leg break in a USL game and was unable to receive proper / acceptable treatment immediately following. If it wasn't for the Timbers organization stepping up to take care of him and put him on as a coach, he'd be back in New Zealand with a crippled leg and a washed out soccer dream that never paid squat, years of his life wasted. You think guys are lining up to chase crap like that, instead of steady pay in solid leagues like Scandinavian leagues, Belgian, Dutch, etc.?

And last WC 7 of 11 regular starters were MLS players. Every successive World Cup the number of guys who had starts or were currently in MLS grows. As MLS grows, US Soccer gets stronger. If you really think there's no connect there, you're just not paying attention. Gyassi Zardes and Darlington Nagbe stand to have just as much impact on this team as Julian Green (loaned away from Bayern) or John Brooks (can't get regular minutes wherever he is right now). And they'll get that shot because they get quality PT in MLS.

___________

HOPE!
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CliffDogg
Member since Dec 19th 2004
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Fri Oct-17-14 12:51 AM

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93. "b/c england is the only country that uses promotion/relegation."
In response to Reply # 92


  

          

The MLS is garbage and somehow still expanding with teams.

----

THFC
F1
MotoGP

  

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celery77
Member since Aug 04th 2005
25307 posts
Fri Oct-17-14 09:12 AM

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94. "b/c pro/rel is credited as the driving force in Germany's WC win"
In response to Reply # 93


  

          

no, widely credited for the resurrection in German football is the transformation of the youth ranks, which is one of the major areas MLS is doing work. As the Soccer Don said in his call, they spent $30 million on youth development in 2014 alone. Portland, Seattle, and LA will be running full USL Pro teams for developmental players next year. Sporting Kansas City is investing in a major soccer park to help aid with youth development and growth in the KC area.

All this shit is happening specifically BECAUSE teams like LA, Portland, and Seattle can make these investments without fear of being dropped out of the league if they hit a bad patch of form. Soccer specific stadiums are being invested in and built BECAUSE teams like Houston, KC, San Jose know they won't be thrown on the trash heap if they have a down year.

Advocating for pro/rel is naive euro-snobbery, plain and simple. The league is better for not having it, and will continue to not have it for all of the foreseeable future. It's frustratingly stupid (and naive) for Klinsmann to keep bringing it up.

___________

HOPE!
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HowieDooem
Member since Jun 17th 2002
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Fri Oct-17-14 12:20 PM

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96. "I'm not sure promotion/relegation elevates the level of play in a league"
In response to Reply # 86


  

          

Just using the Premier League as a point of reference, the bottom three teams probably don't vary that much in quality from one season to the next. 38 points is a fairly reliable point total for ensuring survival (over the past five seasons, the team who finished 17th has averaged 37.4 points).

It's been well-covered that the relegation threat does make for a more exciting end of the season for teams that would otherwise have nothing to play for. We've all been to late-season MLB or NBA games between two bad/mediocre teams. It's an exercise in pointlessness. MLS gets around this somewhat by putting over half of its teams in the playoffs, so there are still important implications halfway down the table. Which way is better is a matter of preference (I prefer relegation to a bloated playoff bracket).

I think the most interesting point Klinsmann was making in calling up Miguel Ibarra from Minnesota and Jordan Morris from Stanford was that it's difficult for him or whoever's in charge of the national team to evaluate domestic-based players when everyone is not on a single spectrum. The only time NASL, USL, and MLS come together is in the Open Cup, which a lot of MLS teams don't give a shit about. In truth, there's probably very little difference between the bottom end of an MLS roster and the top players in the NASL. Putting the pro leagues together would at least give us some sort of common continuum.

Here's why promotion/relegation is not going to happen: The owners won't vote for it, and MLS would have to cede the player contracts to the clubs. Obviously the owner part is self-explanatory, as they want to protect their investments. The tough one is that the league has no interest in letting go of those contracts; they still feel the need to keep the teams as balanced as possible. The problem is that the constant expansion (soon to be over-expansion at the rate they're going) keeps stretching an already-thin domestic talent pool. So, unlike comparably talented leagues like Holland, Portugal, and Russia where you have a few stacked teams at the top and a bunch of chaff below it, we'll have 24 mildly competent clubs, with a bland, homogenized overall product.

  

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celery77
Member since Aug 04th 2005
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Fri Oct-17-14 02:07 PM

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97. "it's Ayn Randian nonsense, as real as the Fountainhead"
In response to Reply # 96
Fri Oct-17-14 02:10 PM by celery77

  

          

If anything, pro/rel actively HURTS the level of play, because it locks a decent portion of the table into a survival battle, where pragmatic results trump everything (because there's a huge $ incentive tied directly to it) and it becomes MORE difficult to do things like invest in youth with a long-term goal, because senior team results are much more important. Also results in the coaching carousels we see, where players and managers are shuttled around the bottom as everyone scrapes to survive and players can get lost in bad contract / bad situation limbo for years.

As for playing time opportunities for non-1st teamers in MLS, that's been a long-standing problem. There's been a reserve league, there's been lower level loans, roster sizes are tweaked (we'll probably see a cut from 30 to 25 in 2015). Like I've said senior teams are launching USL Pro affiliates, so again as the senior league grows, they continue trying to develop the feeder system along with it. Of course it's extremely imperfect, but the US Soccer lifers stay trying to grow it. Klinsmann isn't saying anything Don Garber hasn't been aware of (and working to fix) for a decade+.

___________

HOPE!
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celery77
Member since Aug 04th 2005
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Fri Nov-14-14 02:55 PM

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98. "MLS owners tell Klinsi to keep his hand out of their pockets (link)"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

If you really thought that Don Garber presser was just a dispute about the quality of play, you're not really paying attention. I'm glad to see some of the owners are coming forward and putting their name on the comments instead of just hiding behind Don Garber and letting him take all the flak. Don't be shy, MLS owners -- own your success. Stop letting Klinsmann euro-snob his way into a huge paycheck while he rides the coattails of your development and starting XI mainstays like Besler, Zusi, and Beckerman.

_____________________________________________________________________

http://www.espnfc.us/team/united-states/660/blog/post/2145959/jurgen-klinsmann-firm-on-young-player-advice-as-mls-frustration-grows

...

Now it appears there was more to Garber's ire than met the eye. Seattle Sounders minority owner Adrian Hanauer, Philadelphia Union CEO and operating partner Nick Sakiewicz, and several other sources have told ESPN FC that there is growing frustration within the league over the advice Klinsmann and U.S. soccer staff are giving to youth national team and MLS academy players.

At issue, according to sources, is an approach whereby Klinsmann and his surrogates are advising those players to sign with European clubs and bypass MLS. To this end, the U.S. Soccer Federation has been organizing training stints and trials for various youth national team players, the better to showcase those players for overseas clubs.

This raises the possibility that MLS teams may miss out on signing some of their own academy players to professional contracts, and that the investment clubs have made in these players may be for nothing.

...

___________

HOPE!
https://vine.co/v/i7JjIBL3Qix
https://vine.co/v/i7JtqEFwxDu

  

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PROMO
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Fri Nov-14-14 03:05 PM

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99. "here's the stupidity of this whole thing: NO ONE IS IN THE WRONG."
In response to Reply # 98


  

          

i mean, what do you want Klinsmann to do?!?!?!

his JOB is to field the best USMNT that he can, and to have success in international competitions. if he feels like the best way to do his job is to encourage his players to get better in foreign leagues so that when it's time for the USMNT to perform he's getting the most out of his players then he's doing his job perfectly. his job is not to take to heart the desires of the domestic league.

on the flip side, Garber and the MLS have an interest in keeping "homegrown" talent around the states for as long as possible with the idea that by doing so they are putting the best product on the field that they can.

those ideals might be in direct competition with one another, but neither is wrong. what is wrong is the MLS blaming him for sabotaging the league - it's not his fucking job to save/grow the MLS. the MLS ain't caking Klinsy's pockets.

STAND OUT HAND OUTS: http://basquiatwhenipaint.tumblr.com

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celery77
Member since Aug 04th 2005
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Fri Nov-14-14 04:25 PM

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103. "if Klinsmann is using call-ups to steer players to euro agents..."
In response to Reply # 99


  

          

it's a problem. It's a potential bit of small scale corruption and it's absolutely questionable when we have more examples of Americans going abroad and floundering than we do Americans going abroad and blossoming. Matter of fact, the most consistent USMNT talent pipeline of late has been ........ MLS.

So setting the league's money aside, this is still questionable by Klinsmann. Add in the high cost, long-sighted investments MLS is making in youth right now, and it's concerning.

___________

HOPE!
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pdafunk
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Fri Nov-14-14 03:54 PM

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100. "don't clubs the world over run the risk of losing out on their own youth"
In response to Reply # 98


  

          

players? or do MLS clubs not get compensation if their players leave for europe? i'm just thinking about players like raheem sterling who spent his time in the youth ranks at QPR before being signed by liverpool.

i understand MLS wanting to hang on to their players to not only protect their investment but also strengthen their brand, but they are going to be hard-pressed to fight the reality of the big fish always eating the little fish.

but the ancillary benefit should be that the money they get for these players can be re-invested in the league, some players will get experience in europe and come back still in their prime, lifting the quality of play in MLS, and a minority of US players that leave will blow up and not return til they are past their peak.

------
"I can't promise I'll try. But I'll try to try."

  

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celery77
Member since Aug 04th 2005
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Fri Nov-14-14 04:10 PM

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101. "no, MLS doesn't get compensation when their youth leaves"
In response to Reply # 100


  

          

They don't sign teens in the youth academy to contracts (possibly because of the NCAA, which is a whole other issue), so when Klinsmann calls in a guy like Jordan Morriss twice in quick succession and puts him in front of European agents and tells him his USMNT future is brighter if Morriss talks to those guys, Seattle potentially gets nada if Morriss signs with them, because they don't have a contract with Morriss so Morriss can attend Stanford.

So yeah, it's not like Europe at all.

___________

HOPE!
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https://vine.co/v/i7JtqEFwxDu

  

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PROMO
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Fri Nov-14-14 04:22 PM

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102. "who cares. that's the breaks."
In response to Reply # 101


  

          

again, it's not Klinsy's job to help the MLS. (more specifically, the Sounders REAAAAAAAAAAALY don't need compensation for Morris - or anyone for that matter - they are rich as fuck)

do the heads of the Brazilian domestic leagues fire off angry letters to the Brazil coaching staff every month because all of the Brazilian players go play in Europe?

the MLS are bunch of bitches, and that's coming from a an MLS fan.

STAND OUT HAND OUTS: http://basquiatwhenipaint.tumblr.com

TWEET ME: @PROMO206

  

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celery77
Member since Aug 04th 2005
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Fri Nov-14-14 04:30 PM

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104. "the guys paying Klinsi's checks, staffing his starting XI care"
In response to Reply # 102


  

          

US Soccer isn't comparable to Brazil (and show me again where people said Neymar was less than world class, might miss call-ups, cuz he only did it in Brazil). These guys would be doing themselves a disservice if they let Klinsmann just reap the benefit while undercutting it at every possible chance.

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Buck
Member since Feb 15th 2005
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Fri Nov-14-14 04:44 PM

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105. "I like "euro-snob" as a verb."
In response to Reply # 98


  

          

  

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celery77
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Fri Feb-06-15 12:21 PM

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106. "former USMNT fitness coach tells the truth on Klinsi: he sucks (link)"
In response to Reply # 0
Fri Feb-06-15 12:21 PM by celery77

  

          

After winning only 1 of the last 9 since the World Cup and experimenting with a 3-5-2, with 33-yo Jermaine Jones as the central CB (who has subsequently discussed his discomfort in the role), Klinsmann decided to blame it all on fitness. Why? Who knows why, but knives are back out and the post-LD blogosphere is not interested in hearing "these are only friendlies."

_________________________________________________________________

http://www.si.com/planet-futbol/2015/02/06/usmnt-fitness-pierre-barrieu-jurgen-klinsmann

...

After the MLS offseason, Klinsmann added, “It’s difficult for me now to get them out of vacation … They don’t have that, ‘Oh, O.K., at the beginning of December, go to Athletes’ Performance in Phoenix and get myself fit.’ That culture we don’t have yet … The culture is not there.”

That’s not the U.S. team culture that Barrieu knows. “It’s always hard to comment on situations that are taking place right now, because I’m not part of it,” Barrieu said. “The one thing I can talk about is what went on during my years on the team with two different regimes, Bruce and Bob. Fitness has been a hallmark of the team. People were always saying, ‘You guys are hard to play because you’re very fit.’ So now when Jurgen said this, I’m scratching my head. It’s surprising.”

Barrieu does want to make one thing clear: The U.S.’s reputation for top-level fitness isn’t due to some sort of genetic advantage. It’s due to a culture of hard work.

“Sometimes it’s interpreted as the U.S. guys are really superior fitness freaks. But that’s not the case,” he said. “We had guys who were starters for years, who are big names in the U.S., and they are not superior fitness specimens to European players. We had teams that were really fit because it was a priority. The coaching staff was like, ‘If we lose games, we will totally make sure it wasn’t due to bad fitness, because this is something we can control.’ It comes down to the players, the work and the training method, which is why I really enjoyed my years in the U.S. Players were willing to do the work.”

But for a few years even that part was a work in progress. When Barrieu first joined the U.S. team before the 2002 Gold Cup, he said, “a lot of players got hit like a ton of bricks” by the fitness requirements. By around 2004, though, he said a culture of fitness had been built up within the team, one that included regular communication and instruction when the players were not in national team camp.

“What started as a big surprise ended up as an expectation,” Barrieu said. “This is sociology here. They don’t think the same, they don’t function the same, but I saw a tremendous improvement … You design a good program, you stay in touch and you have feedback and guidelines. Then it’s up to them to do it or not, knowing there would be a way for us to verify if their work had been done or not in camp.”

Barrieu left U.S. Soccer when Bradley was fired in 2011. He then worked as an assistant coach and head fitness coach for the United Arab Emirates national team. He left that job last year for Sheffield Wednesday, which was set to gain a money infusion from new owners from Azerbaijan. But when the purchase fell apart, Barrieu’s job was one of the casualties. He’s currently working as a FIFA technical instructor running coaching symposiums in different countries.

Barrieu didn’t mind questioning the current regime was when it came to the three U.S. hamstring injuries suffered during the World Cup by Jozy Altidore, Matt Besler and Fabian Johnson.

“This is my personal opinion: When it comes to these soft-tissue injuries, I’ll tell you flat out: I don’t think this is a coincidence,” he said. “What can explain this? Again, I wasn’t there to witness the workload and all the other factors during the camp and the days that preceded it. But it would be foolish to have three injuries like this -- three non-contact soft-tissue injuries in the same muscle group -- and think this is a coincidence. And I’m sure didn’t do that.”

One of my favorite stories: Barrieu wasn’t above installing some humorous methods of keeping players honest. Once, during Arena’s tenure, he included in the late-December home-training program a workout that was literally impossible to complete. “No one could do this,” he said, “because it was just too fast, too much distance and not enough time.” When the day of that workout came, right after Christmas, he got 15 phone calls and e-mails from players who were coming into that January camp.

“Guys were telling me, ‘F---, there’s no way I could do it,’” he recalls. “And I’m like, ‘Great! Because you’re not supposed to! Good work. Keep going!’” Another third of the players wouldn’t check in, and only after he contacted them would they say there were a couple days behind. And then there were a final few, six or seven, he would ask about the impossible workout. “Oh, great, no problem,” they’d tell him. “And I’d say, ‘I’ll see you on January 4!’” he said, laughing. “So this is sociology.”

It’s not an exact science, in other words. But if there really is a significant problem with the fitness culture in Klinsmann’s team -- and not everyone is sure that there is -- it’s a decline that has happened under his watch over the past three-and-a-half years.

___________

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Sleepy
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107. "That fitness issue feels like a smokescreen"
In response to Reply # 106


  

          

With that said, I there are a handful of players that could use more conditioning *coughJozycough*

You're such pests...now, what is it you want? In your depths of your ignorance, what is it you want? Well, whatever it is you want, I can't deliver because I just don't see it. - Orson Welles


Never Tired, Always Sleepy

  

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thejerseytornado
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Fri Feb-06-15 02:17 PM

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108. "not exactly unbiased observer there"
In response to Reply # 106


  

          

and he doesn't know what sociology is (I think he meant psychology? anyway).

statistician in me says an N of 3 isn't good enough to make a claim about injuries and fitness.

-----------
Y'all stupid...should've tanked for Lebron/Wiggins in 2014 -Rex LongFellow

Its 2014...there are computers in glasses and people stunt after hitting the ball far. Get over it. -Cenario

It's only funny till someone gets mad. Then it's hilariou

  

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celery77
Member since Aug 04th 2005
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Fri Feb-06-15 02:51 PM

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109. "true, 3 WCs, 2 HCs experience with the USMNT would bias a person"
In response to Reply # 108


  

          

oh but right, because he's not part of the Jurgime, somehow his expertly informed opinion about how to manage fitness at the national team level is invalid.

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thejerseytornado
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Fri Feb-06-15 02:55 PM

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110. "youre swinging elbows at me like I give a fuck"
In response to Reply # 109
Fri Feb-06-15 02:57 PM by thejerseytornado

  

          

Remember? I dont give a shit about the usmnt. But three injuries is quite, quite possibly just due to random chance. In short, both sides are full of shit.

-----------
Y'all stupid...should've tanked for Lebron/Wiggins in 2014 -Rex LongFellow

Its 2014...there are computers in glasses and people stunt after hitting the ball far. Get over it. -Cenario

It's only funny till someone gets mad. Then it's hilariou

  

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celery77
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Fri Feb-06-15 03:05 PM

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111. "it's not just hammies, it's also the claim US lacks a fitness culture"
In response to Reply # 110


  

          

even though prior to Klinsmann's arrival, the USMNT was frequently cited as a team with strong fitness. So if we accept Klinsmann's idea that US players don't take fitness seriously, what changed in the last 3-1/2 years to make that the case? Just the make-up of the squad*?



*bonus points if you can even name what the regular squad is at this point

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ShawndmeSlanted
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Fri Feb-06-15 03:34 PM

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112. "None of this will matter come sunday when Jurgy starts Lee at the 10"
In response to Reply # 106


  

          

vs Panama

---
"though time has passed, im still the future" (c) black thought

  

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celery77
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Thu Mar-26-15 09:19 AM

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113. "thoroughly enjoyed this Opta stat breakdown showing USMNT's regression:"
In response to Reply # 0
Thu Mar-26-15 09:20 AM by celery77

  

          

following another embarrassing late loss from this team (14 goals conceded after 75' in the last 14 games) from the honestly USA-soccer-must-read Matthew Doyle (he's basically the Z-Lo of Soccer):

__________________________________________________________________

http://www.mlssoccer.com/news/article/2015/03/25/armchair-analyst-new-faces-same-problems-latest-late-usmnt-collapse-three-th

...

My big problem is that there's been a regression in this group's ability to play from the back. This was especially evident in Aarhus on Wednesday, but before you go writing it off as just a friendly, remember these numbers (courtesy of Opta) from the World Cup:

U.S.A
Year Minutes Played Possession Passes Per 90 Passes, Final Third Per 90 Shots Per 90
1990 270 46.61% 324.33 90 11
1994 360 42.61% 352 89.75 11.5
1998 270 53.83% 452.67 157 16.67
2002 450 48.59% 356.4 126.8 12.6
2006 270 50.31% 392 133.33 10.33
2010 390 49.06% 367.85 122.77 15.46
2014 390 43.48% 381.69 98.54 10.15

Opponents
Year Minutes Played Possession Passes Per 90 Passes, Final Third Per 90 Shots Per 90
1990 270 53.39% 365.33 131.33 19.33
1994 360 56.93% 487.5 149.25 17.75
1998 270 46.07% 391.67 117.67 13
2002 450 51.66% 295.8 119.4 16.2
2006 270 49.92% 392.33 120 10.33
2010 390 50.94% 375.46 123.92 14.08
2014 390 56.52% 500.08 168.23 21.69

Awful in possession for the purposes of chance generation, and awful in in possession to the purpose of killing off a lead.

And especially awful at playing out of the back, with 29 misplayed passes originating in the US defensive third tonight:

<Opta chalkboard showing wayward passes>

That's right in line with what we did in Brazil. It doesn't matter the stakes, the opponent, or the personnel: The US under Klinsmann are more direct and have fewer ideas in possession than at any time over the last two decades.

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celery77
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Wed Jul-22-15 08:00 PM

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114. "Last USA loss to a Caribbean team on US soil: 1968"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

1-0 to Haiti, for those keeping score.

Do we still trust this guy to give us our best opportunity in 2018?

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celery77
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Wed Jul-22-15 08:09 PM

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115. "second ever lost to Jamaica ........... the first being in 2012 WCQ"
In response to Reply # 114


  

          

stop sleeping on @ArmchairAnalyst

http://www.mlssoccer.com/goldcup/2015/news/article/2015/07/22/armchair-analyst-jurgen-klinsmann-usmnt-flame-out-vs-jamaica-gold-cup-loss

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Buck
Member since Feb 15th 2005
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Sat Aug-01-15 12:42 PM

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116. "Solving the Jurgen Klinsmann Problem (swipe)"
In response to Reply # 0
Sat Aug-01-15 12:43 PM by Buck

  

          

In short, since they refuse to lose face by firing him, hire somebody else to actually run the team. *sigh*

http://sports.yahoo.com/blogs/soccer-fc-yahoo/jurgen-klinsmann-u-s--men-s-national-team-231641881.html

Jurgen Klinsmann isn't going anywhere.

An intellectually honest assessment of his record and performance in his four years on the job would suggest that his position as United States men's national team head coach should at the very least be up for discussion. But it isn't. Even though we can now say confidently that in big tournaments he was outperformed by his predecessor Bob Bradley – who was let go for the benefit of Klinsmann's hiring – U.S. Soccer has no intention of making a change.

Following an embarrassing Gold Cup semifinal loss to Jamaica, United States Soccer Federation president Sunil Gulati said that Klinsmann's job was not in danger, and that it wouldn't be even if the Americans lose an October playoff against Mexico for a spot in the 2017 Confederations Cup.

So what now? Because no matter how headstrong the federation has become on the Klinsmann kerfuffle – the unavoidable conclusion here is that USSF has invested an irresponsible amount of money and credibility capital into his success and won't write either of it off – this isn't working. Yes, there have been friendly wins against big countries. But while the U.S. survived the Group of Death in the World Cup, its performance was poor and the Gold Cup debacle is its biggest failing in close to a decade. The play, meanwhile, is pedestrian with dispiriting regularity, even though the pool of talent available is deeper than ever.

Klinsmann's mandate is a long-term one. He is charged with lifting American soccer to a higher plane. But how do we reconcile that bigger picture with the lack of results in the short term?

In trying to formulate a solution, why not look back to the one of his three jobs in management that Klinsmann made an inarguable success?

During his tenure in charge of Germany from 2004 to 2006, Klinsmann oversaw a stylistic revolution that resulted in Die Mannschaft winning the World Cup last summer. Back then, he had a strong assistant in Jogi Loew, who has since succeeded him and conquered the world. The way it seems to have worked is that Klinsmann was the public face and the big ideas man. He formulated the vision and defended it to the outside world – and even Germany's congress. He was in charge of the team, giving team talks, while Loew ran practice, constructed game plans and took care of the tactics. It worked well.

So why not replicate that model? Why not equip Klinsmann with a strong assistant – call him an "associate head coach” or a "field manager” or whatever – and let both do what they do best? Why not put a talented tactician-cum-field-coach by his side, who knows the player pool and won't hog the spotlight, allowing Klinsmann to be a kind of supervisor and plot out the next steps to a better future?

Whether Klinsmann is actually capable of leading the Americans to a place where they can finally break into the world's elite is up for debate – he certainly has a hard time verbalizing his plans – but if his job security must be absolute, it makes sense to give him a better shot at succeeding by freeing him from a lot of the daily burdens of being both the national team's head coach and the federation's technical director, as he was named when he renewed his contract through 2018 in December 2013.

Perhaps Martin Vasquez was supposed to be that guy. After serving as Klinsmann's assistant in his disastrous time with Bayern Munich in the 2008-09 season, he was deemed to have been one of the reasons his boss failed to survive his first year. Klinsmann nevertheless brought him along in his third job, in charge of the USA, before finally dumping him in a pre-World Cup purge. Vasquez, a friendly but reserved kind of guy, in sharp contrast to the ever ebullient Klinsmann, didn't leave much of an impression on anyone.

Klinsmann's current assistants, Andy Herzog and Tab Ramos, don't seem to have the clout within the team to carry out such a role, or the experience. Berti Vogts, meanwhile, occasionally listed as some sort of consultant and sounding board to Klinsmann, isn't around much and surely wouldn't be asked to run practices.

So why not bring in an extra coach? A Major League Soccer man, since so much of the USMNT now plies its trade in the domestic league.

Dom Kinnear of the San Jose Earthquakes would probably make the most sense. He has a track record of performing very well with solid if unspectacular squads, reaching four MLS Cups (winning two) in seven years with the Houston Dynamo. His teams are well-organized, efficient and hard to break down, just as the USA used to be. But then his typically austere playing style would be a betrayal of the evolution Klinsmann has promised (albeit very seldom delivered on). It would all probably look too Bradley-esque. And then what would have been the point in all of this? Or so the federation might conclude.

Sigi Schmid could be another option. The German-born Seattle Sounders manager has won two MLS Cups with two different teams and tends to play attractive soccer with his team. He's twice managed the U.S. Under-20s and, what's more, he has a good relationship with Klinsmann. However, at 62, Schmid might be a tad old to agree to becoming someone's No. 2 after spending 35 years as a head coach.

The most logical option would appear to be one of the younger MLS coaches who have proven themselves domestically and could have bigger ambitions to pursue. Provided one of them could be convinced to suspend promising careers in club management, he could act in a quasi-apprentice role. Kind of like the short but ill-fated Guus Hiddink-Danny Blind combination that succeeded Louis van Gaal as Netherlands managers a year ago, which was an idea better conceptualized than executed.

There are candidates aplenty. Peter Vermes (48, Sporting Kansas City), Ben Olsen (38, DC United), Jay Heaps (38, New England Revolution), Jason Kreis (42, New York City FC) and Caleb Porter (40, Portland Timbers) have known real success with their clubs and demonstrated their ability to get their teams to play attractive, aggressive, attacking soccer. The sort of soccer Klinsmann envisions.

All of them could use such a national team pseudo-head coaching job as a stepping stone for their careers, not to mention the big job itself, whenever Klinsmann vacates it. The pot could even be sweetened with the Olympic assignment, with qualifiers starting in October, followed by the main tournament in Rio de Janeiro next summer – even though that job is presently held by Herzog. And in the meantime, the senior national team would benefit from having a real manager out on the field, even if he would be something else in name, without usurping Klinsmann.

Because lately, and for a good while now, the USA has lacked identity, a clear playing style and cohesion, plainly hampering results. These are problems typically solved by switching out the manager. In this case, since U.S. Soccer says it won't entertain Klinsmann's sacking, the old manager would still be kept around, only he would be promoted out of the way.

  

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sfMatt
Member since Jun 20th 2002
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Mon Aug-03-15 01:13 PM

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118. "There's a lot of stupidity here"
In response to Reply # 116


  

          

Namely, the parroting of the "deeper" than ever talent pool line - which I'm convinced more and more is totally not the case. (We have a lot of solid contributors in the system - but very few international starters and in the case of both groups hardly any of significant experience in a top flight winning club/culture).

I also love the idea that deploying a consistently "organized" side in MLS is the kind of accomplishment that deems one worthy of a national team job.

  

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celery77
Member since Aug 04th 2005
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Tue Aug-04-15 03:38 PM

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119. "who should replace him is tough to answer right now"
In response to Reply # 118


  

          

which is one reason why I'm pretty okay with them running the string out, at least until October, with Klinsmann. All the MLS options aren't that great -- Porter still has to prove he can consistently get the best out of professional adults, Kreis has to prove he can win with a group that isn't Javi Mo and Kyle Beckerman, and the rest of the options they list are soccer pragmatists, which is okay, but wouldn't mesh with Klinsmann.

My main beef is the pass (and responsibility) Jurgen has been given because he speaks with a foreign accent. He's NOT better than the American coaches that have preceeded him, yet he's paid more, given vastly more responsibility, and is (at least publicly) promised much more job security than they ever received. But as long as we're all being honest at this point that Jurgen is NOT getting the best out of our talent pool, then I'm fine with that.

And the talent pool IS deeper, it's just lacking stars. But a smart manager putting guys into consistent positions MIGHT be making stars out of young guys like Fabian Johnson, DeAndre Yedlin, maybe even Wil Trapp or Perry Kitchen. Klinsmann has been too inconsistent in his roster and tactical selection, though, so no one looks good with a USA shirt on right now. That's a problem that just plain consistency would hopefully address.

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sfMatt
Member since Jun 20th 2002
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Tue Aug-04-15 06:18 PM

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120. "fabian is the best player in the pool right now"
In response to Reply # 119


  

          

Yedlin is nothing more than a middling supersub when it comes down to it.

  

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Castro
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Sat Aug-01-15 11:36 PM

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117. "Fuck it, I hope he resigns and goes to Ghana or Nigeria."
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

------------------
One Hundred.

  

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celery77
Member since Aug 04th 2005
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Mon Oct-12-15 05:56 PM

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121. "Fabian Johnson given "harsh words", sent home from USMNT following MX L"
In response to Reply # 0
Mon Oct-12-15 06:01 PM by celery77

  

          

following the Mexico loss. Believe @BrianScaretta had the first tweet on it. Sounds like JK is accusing Fabian of faking an injury so he could sub off in OT, which ruined Klinsmann's plan of subbing in Rimando for PKs (even though he had Wondo standing with the 4th official for most of OT and PKs weren't on the cards till a few minutes into the second fifteen, so like sweet plan, why worry about a player who's totally spent). And like, fine, let's assume Fabian didn't have the heart in this one, still amazing for the coach to publicly throw him under the bus following an embarrassing loss, especially when that player is most likely the best wide player in the pool and should be considered a key piece going into 2018.

So yeah, y'all thought this would get upped off a tight loss? That was bad, but hardly guaranteed. It's really the persistent stupid shit like tho that underscores what an idiot he us. Can this idiot, let's get a fresh fucking start.

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celery77
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Tue Oct-13-15 11:25 AM

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122. "oh look, now Gladbach say they are treating Fabian for a thigh injury"
In response to Reply # 121


  

          

Might says it's petty on their part, except I seem to remember Jermaine Jones picking up muscle injuries in Klindi camps before. Oh and Jozy Altidore did, too. Oh and Clint Dempsey did a calf I believe, to go with DMB's calf, and Aron Johanson's recent abductor injury. It's *almost* like there's a trend of USMNT players leaving Kamp Klinsi with a muscle thing, but nah ... the German said Fabian punked out because he subbed without an injury, and Germans know more about soccer ball than we do, so who are we to question?

Oh by wait, a German CLUB is saying Fabian has an injury -- WHO DO WE BLINDLY TRUST??? Conundrum...

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celery77
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Fri Mar-25-16 11:06 PM

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123. "..."
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

ANOTHER HISTORIC PERFORMANCE!!

The USA loses to Guatemala for the first time in TWENTY-EIGHT YEARS!!
DeAndre Yedlin starts at winger?
Mix "Recently Voted the Most Overrated Player in MLS by his Peers" Diskerud starts in the middle?
Alejandro Bedoya starts on the right?
Geoff Cameron moves to RB so we can start a guy that doesn't normally play for us?
Bradley is ostensibly our attacking fulcrum again?
Our GKs are platooning?!?

Our national team is being held hostage by a guy that was run out of Germany, run out of Bayern, routinely shit upon by his former players, whose greatest success appears to be advancing from the group stage in Brazil, which honestly is the same as hitting par for the US these days. His message is inconsistent and frequently contradictory. He cut Landon friggin' Donovan. He seems to call certain players in largely to help steer them towards European agents. It's just ... it's fucking theft that he's making 4x Bob Bradley's salary.

oh
and
Sunil Gulati gotta go too off this failed "regime." Never shoulda extended Klinsmann pre-World Cup, never shoulda kept him on after the Gold Cup. What more do you people need to see?

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dillinjah
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Fri Mar-25-16 11:13 PM

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124. "yeah, I was waiting for you to up this."
In response to Reply # 123


          

not much to say, I missed the 1st half.

Ugly

  

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celery77
Member since Aug 04th 2005
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Fri Mar-25-16 11:19 PM

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125. "two sloppy/bad goals conceded, but USA attack was utterly aimless"
In response to Reply # 124
Fri Mar-25-16 11:20 PM by celery77

  

          

and you can blame the players for bad concessions, or you can blame the coach for inconsistent call-ups and questionable 11 selection (Mix getting utterly destroyed on a corner shouldn't surprise anyone, for example).

Then the petty subbing off of TWO CBs? Like "you disappointed me, let me make your weak performance plain for all the public to see" is EXACTLY the type of weak shit Klinsmann does that inspires his players to disappoint him. So fucking stupid, shoulda been fired in October...

___________

HOPE!
https://vine.co/v/i7JjIBL3Qix
https://vine.co/v/i7JtqEFwxDu

  

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celery77
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Fri Mar-25-16 11:53 PM

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126. "USMNT completed 59% of passes in attacking 3rd, worst since data existed"
In response to Reply # 123
Fri Mar-25-16 11:54 PM by celery77

  

          

(going back to 2013, but basically we are clearly regressing under Klinsmann at this point)

from @GrantWahl:

"Klinsmann on 1st GUA goal: There was supposed to be a US player on the post. Was drawn up that way in the locker room."

from @JeffreyCarlisle:

"Klinsmann on the two goals conceded: 'I think it was a lack of focus, concentration and wrong decisions.'"

"I asked Klinsmann why the lack of focus so early. He said that's a good question for the players."

so basically totes wasn't Klinsmann's fault guys. Ask the players, they lost the game. Jurgen only takes credit when things go well.

___________

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dillinjah
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Fri Nov-11-16 11:45 PM

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127. "..."
In response to Reply # 0


          

  

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bshelly
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128. "Klinnsy made America great again"
In response to Reply # 127


  

          

Glad I missed another reminder that he let Mexico pass us so definitively.

----
bshelly

"You (Fisher) could get fired, Les Snead could get fired, Kevin Demoff could get fired, but I will always be Eric Dickerson.” (c) The God

  

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Doc Catalyst
Member since Nov 24th 2008
188 posts
Tue Nov-15-16 11:28 PM

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129. "4-0. Wow. Feels like they gave up tonight."
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

  

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celery77
Member since Aug 04th 2005
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134. "how flattering for Jurgen to be compared to Mourinho's Chelsea"
In response to Reply # 129


  

          

last evening

___________

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Buck
Member since Feb 15th 2005
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Wed Nov-16-16 08:13 AM

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130. "Arena back?"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

Nothing in this short piece, bear in mind, is anything more than wild speculation.

http://www.starsandstripesfc.com/2016/11/15/13646222/jurgen-klinsmann-usmnt-manager-bruce-arena

U.S. Soccer have a ton of questions to answer between now and March after losing twice to begin the CONCACAF Hexagonal. With just eight matches remaining in the round, the USMNT could be in real danger of not automatically qualifying for 2018’s World Cup in Russia.

Could Jurgen Klinsmann be on the way out after his team visibly quit on him in Costa Rica? Sunil Gulati stated last week that he didn’t envision a scenario where Klinsmann wouldn’t finish the Hex out as USMNT manager, but reports could suggest otherwise.

Steven Goff of the Washington Post said on Twitter following the embarrassing USMNT loss that a U.S. Soccer contact told him before the match that the federation were lining up former national team manager and current LA Galaxy head coach, Bruce Arena, to take over if the team were to lose a second match.

Steven Goff ✔ @SoccerInsider
Earlier today, a longtime US contact told me USSF had lined up Arena in case of another loss. Didn't believe it at time, but now ... hmmm
11:10 PM - 15 Nov 2016
450 450 Retweets 432 432 likes

Steven Goff ✔ @SoccerInsider
Arena would accept the #USMNT in a second. Coached in 2 WCQ cycles. Knows how this works. No time to mold an intl novice.
11:18 PM - 15 Nov 2016
40 40 Retweets 155 155 likes

If there was ever a time for a USMNT coaching change, this would be it. There are four months between now and the next meaningful match. After the last two debacles, it could be the tipping point for the federation. Then again, we could all be grasping at straws as we have after every disappointing result for the team over the past three years.

  

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bshelly
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131. "Anyone else"
In response to Reply # 130


  

          

----
bshelly

"You (Fisher) could get fired, Les Snead could get fired, Kevin Demoff could get fired, but I will always be Eric Dickerson.” (c) The God

  

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Buck
Member since Feb 15th 2005
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Wed Nov-16-16 08:26 AM

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132. "I'll always have a soft spot for him."
In response to Reply # 131


  

          

As he did turn my alma mater into a perennial powerhouse.

  

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celery77
Member since Aug 04th 2005
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Wed Nov-16-16 09:49 AM

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133. "what's wrong with Arena (if he doesn't go past Russia)?"
In response to Reply # 131


  

          

he's an immaculate man manager -- would instantly restore some order in the ranks -- and his tactics are pragmatic, common across the US soccer landscape, and generally effective. he could qualify, field a team that at minimum "competes" in Russia, then step aside because his age more or less DQs him from pushing past Russia.

Is that better than letting Klinsmann drain the soul of the team in the meantime?

___________

HOPE!
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ShawndmeSlanted
Member since Oct 30th 2004
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Wed Nov-16-16 10:01 AM

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135. "he looks like a neanderthal?"
In response to Reply # 133


  

          

---
"though time has passed, im still the future" (c) black thought

  

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celery77
Member since Aug 04th 2005
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Wed Nov-16-16 10:12 AM

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136. "a funny, lovable neanderthal -- sure"
In response to Reply # 135


  

          

People overthink soccer sometimes

___________

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magilla vanilla
Member since Sep 13th 2002
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Wed Nov-16-16 10:14 AM

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137. "Same as most managers. He plays favorites."
In response to Reply # 133


  

          

Stuck with Keller for one WC cycle longer than he should have.

---------------------------------
Photo zine(some images NSFW): http://bit.ly/USaSPhoto

"This (and every, actually) conversation needs more Chesterton and less Mike Francesa." - Walleye

  

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celery77
Member since Aug 04th 2005
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Wed Nov-16-16 10:29 AM

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139. "and I'm pretty sure Josh Wolff is on his coaching staff now"
In response to Reply # 137


  

          

(that's not a joke)

But the pool NEEDS some stability. Will a guaranteed start for Gyadi Zardes and Omar Gonzalez be any worse than another Wondo and Timmy Chandler call up at this point?

___________

HOPE!
https://vine.co/v/i7JjIBL3Qix
https://vine.co/v/i7JtqEFwxDu

  

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ShawndmeSlanted
Member since Oct 30th 2004
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Wed Nov-16-16 11:44 AM

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141. "release the Nguyen for the win"
In response to Reply # 139


  

          

---
"though time has passed, im still the future" (c) black thought

  

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bshelly
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Fri Nov-18-16 11:30 AM

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144. "i meant anyjuan else besides klinsy. arenas is fine"
In response to Reply # 133


  

          

what we need right now is a steady hand who can get us to third or fourth in the hex, then not embarrass us in russia. after that, we can find the next dude, unless arenas (or whoever) exceeds expectations.

----
bshelly

"You (Fisher) could get fired, Les Snead could get fired, Kevin Demoff could get fired, but I will always be Eric Dickerson.” (c) The God

  

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B9
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Wed Nov-16-16 10:27 AM

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138. "Time left on his contract, has to be cheap enough to fire now"
In response to Reply # 0


          

Zero excuse to keep this bullshit up and little time to gamble on getting it right.

  

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PROMO
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Wed Nov-16-16 11:41 AM

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140. "hey, celery was right all along * tips cap *"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

STAND OUT HAND OUTS: http://basquiatwhenipaint.tumblr.com

TWEET ME: @PROMO206

  

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magilla vanilla
Member since Sep 13th 2002
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Mon Nov-21-16 03:32 PM

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148. "yyyyyep."
In response to Reply # 140


  

          

---------------------------------
Photo zine(some images NSFW): http://bit.ly/USaSPhoto

"This (and every, actually) conversation needs more Chesterton and less Mike Francesa." - Walleye

  

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celery77
Member since Aug 04th 2005
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Mon Nov-21-16 05:19 PM

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151. "*shrugs* he did his job in Brazil, although I'm thrilled to be moving on..."
In response to Reply # 140


  

          

The pay scale difference was utter bullshit the whole time, tho...

___________

HOPE!
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Buck
Member since Feb 15th 2005
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Wed Nov-16-16 11:54 AM

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142. "Also, post 13."
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

  

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theeraser
Member since Feb 11th 2007
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Fri Nov-18-16 11:05 AM

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143. "For those who follow more closely - What shld the starting XI be?"
In response to Reply # 0


          

  

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celery77
Member since Aug 04th 2005
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Mon Nov-21-16 05:16 PM

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150. "honestly hard to say with the lack of consistent formation + pairings"
In response to Reply # 143


  

          

like we know Christian Pulisic is the first name on the team sheet, but is he a winger or does he take a central counter-attacker role a la Landon back in the day? There's a good chance Bobby Wood is our best striker, but it's not clear if he can play with Jozy or who else we might even try besides Jozy. Michael Bradley is likely our best mie, but does he play deep or up high? Do you pair him with a destroyer or a creator like Kljestan? As far as defense, Klinsi was fascistic about having a left-footer at LCB and a right-footer at RCB, so based on that John Brooks and Geoff Cameron are probably the guys, but again that's murky given all the turnover -- Omar is also good, as well as a number of other guys who might fit better when footedness isn't the key determining factor in selection. The fullbacks? Sheesh, whole 'nother topic, but mainly the first thing we need is a consistent formation, then we can start zeroing in on a best XI again.

___________

HOPE!
https://vine.co/v/i7JjIBL3Qix
https://vine.co/v/i7JtqEFwxDu

  

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theeraser
Member since Feb 11th 2007
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Tue Nov-22-16 11:15 AM

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158. "Well what formation would you play, in that case?"
In response to Reply # 150


          

You don't decide on a formation independent of the pool of players you have to draw from.

  

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magilla vanilla
Member since Sep 13th 2002
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Tue Nov-22-16 11:25 AM

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159. "Would a Conte-style 3-4-3/3-5-2 work?"
In response to Reply # 150
Tue Nov-22-16 11:27 AM by magilla vanilla

  

          

Thinking Wood with Klejstan and Pulisic as dual 10s, then you can still have MB alongside a destroyer in the middle, and you don't have to choose between Omar, Cameron and Brooks. Whether, say, Yedlin is disciplined enough to play as a wing back, or we can find someone to do the job on the left is its own question (does Lando fill that role a la Beasley?), and the 3-4-3 won't work without good wingbacks, it otherwise solves some of our selection dilemmas down the spine of the team.

Alternately, you can have Bradley play deep in the hole like Pirlo did in Conte's Italy side. But then you have the question of who pairs Wood, and does Pulisic suffer from playing more as an advanced central midfielder than an out-and-out playmaker.

---------------------------------
Photo zine(some images NSFW): http://bit.ly/USaSPhoto

"This (and every, actually) conversation needs more Chesterton and less Mike Francesa." - Walleye

  

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celery77
Member since Aug 04th 2005
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Tue Nov-22-16 12:02 PM

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160. "I'm biased from watching a lot of Caleb Porter, but I like the 4-2-3-1"
In response to Reply # 159


  

          

The attacking 4 becomes a little flexible, and you can do things like cycle Pulisic between the wing and the hole. You put Bradley deep, but you also give Bradley cover with a 2nd pivot. You have the option of switching Fabian Johnson between LW/RW based on matchups. You also give yourself the option of flipping the midfield triangle and leaving a single pivot, playing two attackers when you faced opposition that poses a smaller threat. So then the formation would be something like:

Wood
Pulisic/Kljestan/Johnson
Bedoya/Bradley
Villafana/Brooks/Cameron/Yedlin
Hamid

It allows for some bunker, allows for counters, allows for possession, puts some key players in their best positions. Works as a 4-5-1 / 4-4-1-1 / 4-3-3 based on small tweaks. But yeah, I've just watched that tons over the past few years, too, so it comes to mind easily because it's what I understand best. Asks a lot of the lo e striker and asks a lot of the guy in the hole, though, so it is personnel dependent...

___________

HOPE!
https://vine.co/v/i7JjIBL3Qix
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benny
Member since Jan 15th 2003
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Mon Nov-21-16 03:12 PM

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145. "he gone!"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

http://www.nytimes.com/2016/11/21/sports/soccer/jurgen-klinsmann-fired-us-soccer-coach.html?_r=0

------------------------------
For the record, my teams:
MLB: Mets / Soccer: PSG
NCAA BB: Arizona / NCAA FB: Michigan
NBA: Spurs / NFL: Jets

  

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dula dibiasi
Member since Apr 05th 2004
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Mon Nov-21-16 03:31 PM

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147. "http://tinyurl.com/zl6oo7n"
In response to Reply # 145


  

          

http://tinyurl.com/zl6oo7n

___

it is a capital mistake to theorize before one has data. insensibly one begins to twist facts to suit theories, instead of theories to suit facts. - sherlock holmes

  

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bshelly
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149. "Landon for coach "
In response to Reply # 147


  

          

----
bshelly

"You (Fisher) could get fired, Les Snead could get fired, Kevin Demoff could get fired, but I will always be Eric Dickerson.” (c) The God

  

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celery77
Member since Aug 04th 2005
25307 posts
Mon Nov-21-16 05:26 PM

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152. "nah, B -- LANDON FOR PLAYER/COACH??!!"
In response to Reply # 149


  

          

Let's do this, Sunil!

___________

HOPE!
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Kungset
Member since Mar 29th 2004
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Mon Nov-21-16 03:30 PM

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146. "archive"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

  

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celery77
Member since Aug 04th 2005
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Mon Nov-21-16 05:35 PM

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153. "first good thing to come out of Trump's America btw"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

#ItGetsBetter
#ThankYouBasedBannon

___________

HOPE!
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celery77
Member since Aug 04th 2005
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Mon Nov-21-16 08:52 PM

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154. "FUN FACT: Klinsi was 9-1-1 in official comps in which St. Landon played"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

and 19-12-5 in games he didn't.

http://www.mlssoccer.com/post/2016/11/21/armchair-analyst-jurgen-klinsmanns-usmnt-era-comes-close

Some more fun from that link:

1. Nonetheless, Klinsmann's teams were utterly inept against foes of that caliber in games that mattered. He failed to register a single win against a Top 10 team, becoming the first US manager unable to take that hurdle since Bob Gansler was coaching a roster full of mostly college kids in 1989 and 1990.

And it's not just that his team didn't win, it's that under Klinsmann the US weren't even close:

Steve Sampson: 450 mins vs. top 10, held the lead for 21.1% of the time
Bruce Arena: 810 mins vs. top 10, held the lead for 22.2% of the time
Bob Bradley: 720 mins vs. top 10, held the lead for 25.5% of the time
Klinsmann: 570 mins vs. top 10, held the lead for 1.6% of the time

To reiterate: All those numbers come from official competitions. No friendlies in there.

• First four-game home winless streak against CONCACAF opponents since 1965
• First loss to a Caribbean opponent in World Cup qualifying since 1969
• First loss to Jamaica, ever
• First home loss to Jamaica, ever
• First time US U-17 team missed the Youth World Cup
• First loss to Guatemala since 1988 -- a Guatemala team that was the lowest-ranked squad to beat the US in the history of the FIFA Rankings
• First US coach in 25 years to fail to record a single win in official competition against a Top 10 side
• Worst record vs. Top 20 sides in official competition than any of his four predecessors:

___________

HOPE!
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HowieDooem
Member since Jun 17th 2002
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Mon Nov-21-16 09:23 PM

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155. "This team sucks ass regardless of who's coaching "
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

  

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hardware
Member since May 22nd 2007
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Tue Nov-22-16 02:16 AM

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156. "define "team""
In response to Reply # 155


          

5 staples and a bunch of moving parts doesn't seem like a team to me.

  

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B9
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Tue Nov-22-16 08:11 AM

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157. "There's hope with a coach that has a plan and knows what he's doing"
In response to Reply # 155


          

Klinsmann's ultimate downfall is that there was no set plan, on or off the field, and he never stuck to his guns with what he was doing.
There is the backbone for a good team that just has to be developed, since so much of it was shunned in favor of his Germanic plan and inability to see quality in the domestic league.

  

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smutsboy
Member since Jun 29th 2002
33297 posts
Tue Nov-22-16 01:09 PM

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161. "RE: There's hope with a coach that has a plan and knows what he's doing"
In response to Reply # 157


  

          

>There is the backbone for a good team that just has to be developed

there is?

Seems to me it's a collection of talent that would be a good supporting cast for world class stars.

So without those stars... it's just a bunch of guys who may or may not try hard.

I have no love for Klinsy. I generally don't care who's coaching them. The US is a 2nd tier national team at absolute best.

  

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celery77
Member since Aug 04th 2005
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Tue Nov-22-16 03:03 PM

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162. "and Klinsi was making us 3rd tier -- 4th place at the Gold Cup??"
In response to Reply # 161


  

          

>I have no love for Klinsy. I generally don't care who's
>coaching them. The US is a 2nd tier national team at absolute
>best.

US soccer will likely be the underdog to Argentina for my lifetime, but that doesn't mean we have to just consign ourselves to 4-0 losses without a single shot on goal. As a soccer nation, we're better than THAT. That's what this is about -- being able to straighten our spine again and recover our belief that we can compete.

___________

HOPE!
https://vine.co/v/i7JjIBL3Qix
https://vine.co/v/i7JtqEFwxDu

  

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smutsboy
Member since Jun 29th 2002
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Tue Nov-22-16 10:52 PM

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164. "yes"
In response to Reply # 162


  

          

but a far bigger problem is how terrible the entire soccer system is in the United States.

  

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GOMEZ
Member since Feb 13th 2003
5458 posts
Tue Nov-22-16 03:13 PM

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163. "fired Marty and hired Norv. i root for the US, but i'm not hopeful"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

In a generation of swine, the one-eyed pig is king.
-Hunter S. Thompson

  

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celery77
Member since Aug 04th 2005
25307 posts
Fri Mar-24-17 10:42 PM

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165. "+ they called Bruce a racist cuz he said they didn't play for the shirt"
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I dunno guys, maybe dudes with a lifetime in US soccer know what they're talking about when they talk about US soccer

___________

HOPE!
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celery77
Member since Aug 04th 2005
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Fri Mar-24-17 10:59 PM

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166. "let the record show I posted this shit during half time"
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___________

HOPE!
https://vine.co/v/i7JjIBL3Qix
https://vine.co/v/i7JtqEFwxDu

  

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celery77
Member since Aug 04th 2005
25307 posts
Fri Mar-24-17 11:01 PM

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167. "remember when Klinsi said we would play attacking soccer?"
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___________

HOPE!
https://vine.co/v/i7JjIBL3Qix
https://vine.co/v/i7JtqEFwxDu

  

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celery77
Member since Aug 04th 2005
25307 posts
Fri Mar-24-17 11:07 PM

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168. "*dabs*"
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___________

HOPE!
https://vine.co/v/i7JjIBL3Qix
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bshelly
Charter member
71730 posts
Sat Mar-25-17 08:13 AM

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169. "far be it for me to begrudge a victory lap, but"
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new post? positivity, new era, moving forward and upward, etc?

----
bshelly

"You (Fisher) could get fired, Les Snead could get fired, Kevin Demoff could get fired, but I will always be Eric Dickerson.” (c) The God

  

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Buck
Member since Feb 15th 2005
15657 posts
Sat Mar-25-17 02:03 PM

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170. "Yep."
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smutsboy
Member since Jun 29th 2002
33297 posts
Sat Mar-25-17 03:49 PM

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171. "country over agenda?"
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celery77
Member since Aug 04th 2005
25307 posts
Sat Mar-25-17 04:55 PM

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172. "first real game post-Klinsi going 6-0 felt like a fitting coda"
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but yeah, It's the Arena cycle now -- looking forward to the Gold Cup, book your seat on the Kellyn Acosta bandwagon now

___________

HOPE!
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theeraser
Member since Feb 11th 2007
7218 posts
Tue Mar-28-17 11:59 PM

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173. "How'd the Panama game go?"
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RandomFact
Member since Dec 10th 2005
8484 posts
Wed Mar-29-17 01:19 AM

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174. "These MLS goofballs have bricks for feet. Just laughable first touches*"
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Wed Mar-29-17 01:24 AM by RandomFact

  

          

*aside from Duece

And its's unfortunate because the main culprits are two very important pieces in Jozy and Bradley.

Thank the soccer gods for bringing us a legit technically skilled player. Hopefully his swag rubs off.

  

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celery77
Member since Aug 04th 2005
25307 posts
Tue Oct-10-17 08:53 PM

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176. "MLS guys scored the game winning goals for Honduras + Panama"
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so actually shut up

___________

HOPE!
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RandomFact
Member since Dec 10th 2005
8484 posts
Tue Oct-10-17 09:10 PM

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183. "lolz"
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dillinjah
Charter member
8139 posts
Tue Oct-10-17 08:49 PM

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175. "what a disgrace."
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RandomFact
Member since Dec 10th 2005
8484 posts
Tue Oct-10-17 08:56 PM

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177. "much deserved"
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Tue Oct-10-17 08:58 PM by RandomFact

  

          

everyone is at fault from Gulati on down.

lol @ bringing back in bruce.

smh @ the mls trash.


  

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BrooklynWHAT
Member since Jun 15th 2007
81873 posts
Tue Oct-10-17 08:56 PM

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178. "Gut the program. Burn it all. Get every bit of rot out. US Soccer 2.0 be..."
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<--- Big Baller World Order

  

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celery77
Member since Aug 04th 2005
25307 posts
Tue Oct-10-17 08:59 PM

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181. "agree. Gulati gotta go. Bradley is no longer first choice. RIP Clint."
In response to Reply # 178


  

          

RIP Howard

prolly a few more you could throw on that list.

but start with firing Gulati, find new stewards to steer the ship. come at the player pool with completely fresh eyes.

and jesus christ was bunker, counter, and score on set pieces really that shameful?

___________

HOPE!
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RandomFact
Member since Dec 10th 2005
8484 posts
Tue Oct-10-17 09:00 PM

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182. "if a player is under 30 and good enough to play overseas"
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they better as hell be playing overseas.

mls guys cannot make up the majority of this team anymore.

  

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rob
Charter member
23209 posts
Tue Oct-10-17 08:58 PM

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179. "usa soccer dividing by zero"
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smutsboy
Member since Jun 29th 2002
33297 posts
Tue Oct-10-17 08:58 PM

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180. "holy."
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shit.

  

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magilla vanilla
Member since Sep 13th 2002
18005 posts
Tue Oct-10-17 09:27 PM

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184. "Klinsi was worth eleventy grillion Bruce Arenas, that's for fucking sure"
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---------------------------------
Photo zine(some images NSFW): http://bit.ly/USaSPhoto

"This (and every, actually) conversation needs more Chesterton and less Mike Francesa." - Walleye

  

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RandomFact
Member since Dec 10th 2005
8484 posts
Tue Oct-10-17 09:31 PM

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186. "at the very least he was trying to get creative with the program."
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the move to rehire bruce put us soccer back 15 years.

  

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