3. "RE: Just realized Baltimore has the GOAT MLB and Safety" In response to Reply # 0
i think i'll take a safety who makes game/season/post season changing plays than someone who's INTs meant nothing more than fantasy points and records (no disrespect to Ed Reed though)
4. "LOL man the numbers are so lopsided its honestly not even funny" In response to Reply # 3
#43 can ball, but lets be real dude has been surrounded by a HOF qb, and played on primetime more than any other team not in Boston. On top of all that he's followed by a national fanbase, all of this leads to him being overrated in the press and media.
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When I think of something clever or profound I'll put it here.
12. "Reed is no doubt a great great safety but I'd take Polamalu over" In response to Reply # 11
him. Reed has the edge in getting pick 6s but Troy is better at every other facet for the position, he's better against the run and he also can make game changing plays.
and I guess you're not familiar w/Ronnie Lott who many would agree is w/o a doubt the best to ever play the position...
>Won a game > >And lol @MLB...whoever u think is the greatest will tell u Ray >is the goat
Uh Dick Butkus is the standard bearer for the MLB and Jack Lambert was just as good as Lewis....and Singletary is right there in the mix, too.
13. "I'd say Lewis eclipses them based on pass coverage responsibilities" In response to Reply # 12
the modern passing offense has changed the middle linebacker position a lot. now Lewis has to cover Wes Welker, Antonio Gates and Jamaal Charles 20 yards from the line of scrimmage.
14. "Polamalu is debateable...Ronnie Lott was the best hitter along w/ Steve" In response to Reply # 12
Atwater But neither one changed or took over a game
But I'll take a ball hawk over a hitter anyday
And Butkus n Lambert played a different game...neither one was as fast as Ray...like dude said above in TODAY'S game when a MLB gotta cover wayyyy faster players
Singletary already said Ray was better....he was our LB coach @ one pt
17. "Atwater was a total bum outside of the hits. " In response to Reply # 14
>Atwater >But neither one changed or took over a game
That he's even in this discussion is embarrassing.
He was horrid.
>But I'll take a ball hawk over a hitter anyday
And water is wet.
>And Butkus n Lambert played a different game...neither one was >as fast as Ray...like dude said above in TODAY'S game when a >MLB gotta cover wayyyy faster players > >Singletary already said Ray was better....he was our LB coach >@ one pt
Singletary wasn't in the same discussion as Ray Lewis
23. "It's amazing how ppl made Atwater in to the greatest safety ever" In response to Reply # 17
cuz he could hit.. Ok, he was a LB playing S but he ain't fuckin w/ Ed Reed... ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ <---- 5.... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dlgiritpmfo
62. "did you just say Ronnie Lott never changed or took over a game?" In response to Reply # 14
>Atwater >But neither one changed or took over a game > >But I'll take a ball hawk over a hitter anyday > Why do people speak on players they obviously never saw?
16. "He was better than Lott the second he stepped on a field" In response to Reply # 15 Sun Sep-11-11 04:51 PM by Orbit_Established
Subtract the highlight hits from Lott and he was simply a "very good" Free Safety.
The hits are not irrelevant, but they don't make a great safety.
I mean, highlight hits also elevated total bums like Steve Atwater to the pro bowl
Reed's only flaw is his health (not really a flaw)
When he's on the field he's miles better than the 2nd best free safety to ever play, and did it in an era with complicated passing offenses (unlike Lott, who had to defend very basic X receiver fly patters, Z receiver crossing patterns, Y curls)
19. "lmmao - did you just say Lott was just a "hard hitter?"" In response to Reply # 16 Sun Sep-11-11 05:57 PM by vee-lover
I mean really, did you just say that ?!?
Lott was a skilled player and maybe the most skilled player to play the position. He was someone who had excellent instincts for the game...LED the league once in interceptions as a SAFETY, you know lol. (he could cover WRs, TEs, and was eons better against the run than Reed)
you do know that he was also a very good cornerback *1st* and then moved to safety and not only made bone crushing hits but intercepted a lot of balls as well and he scored TDs. He was the anchor of that Niners defense and didn't have the defensive players up front that Reed has w/Lewis and co.
And those big hits mattered, too. And any receiver who played against him would tell you that he was someone you always had to be aware of where he was at all times. He was able to disrupt an offense in more ways that Reed.
You don't get selected to the All-NFL anniversary team on just making hard hits.
22. "fam, I swear sportsfans are such prisoners of the moment lol" In response to Reply # 21 Sun Sep-11-11 06:18 PM by vee-lover
Reed IS no doubt a top 3 safety but I would still take Lott over him. There is no stat for intimidation but that ish factors into the discussion when it comes to great defensive players. The intimidation factor is why I say the 85 Bears defense is the overall best defense ever even though statistically there are other teams that can compare to them.
the reason why *some* ppl only associate Lott w/hard hits because they didn't see him play.
It's like someone saying Deion Sanders was just abt making highlight type plays because that's all they show now when they mention him as opposed to seeing how great a cover corner he was and how he understood the nuances of the CB position.
25. "I have no problem with that and I'm sure a lot of other ppl would too" In response to Reply # 24 Sun Sep-11-11 06:13 PM by vee-lover
but at least get the facts straight when talking abt a given player's strengths and weaknesses.....
>He's just a far greater playmaker on D & special teams...
Lott may not have gotten as many pick 6s in his day as Reed but he caused a lot of fumbles as well as intercepting and returning pick 6s...but Reed is better in that regard.
45. "RE: I have no problem with that and I'm sure a lot of other ppl would to..." In response to Reply # 25
That's the problem, people go way overboard. Ed Reed is in the discussion for GOAT, but there is no player at the position who is "eons" ahead of Ronnie Lott. That's like saying there is a QB "eons" ahead of John Elway.
Ray Lewis is also in that top 3 discussion at MLB but who cares if he is better than Butkus in the modern passing game, either don't compare across era's or judge people by THEIR era
27. "you seem to mainly be basing your argument on why Reed is better" In response to Reply # 26
than Lott because he's returned an INTs for touchdowns (as did Lott)...that's a big part of what makes Reed a special player but there is more to the position than just that. It ain't like Reed gets a INT in every game. Can he have as big a impact on a game if he's not making interceptions? Lott could...
Lott was simply better in all other areas. He was 2x better than Reed against the run. Because he was initially a CB he could cover WRs and TEs...and many of his big hits led to fumbles.
30. "he's nowhere near on Lott's level, though...shit, Polamalu is better" In response to Reply # 29
than Reed against the run...
and as far as big hits, Reed ain't on the same field as Lott lol...formers players talk abt how they always knew where he was at all times. And the thing w/Lott is that he's arguably the hardest hitter to ever play and yet he wasn't a dirty player and hardly ever got penalized unlike a player like Rodney Harrison who was a big hitter, too, but was considered borderline dirty.
31. "lol Polamalu is a strong safety though, of course you're going" In response to Reply # 30
to see him making more tackles and closer to the line than Reed is. the perception is just wrong. Reed's career high in tackles came when he came in the league playing SS his first few years.
33. "but Lott was a free safety just like Reed why is it that he was better" In response to Reply # 31
than Polamalu and Reed against stopping the run? Because he was an overall better safety and actually excelled at both free and strong safety....and was a very good CB, too, which was his initial position.
>to see him making more tackles and closer to the line than >Reed >is. the perception is just wrong. Reed's career high in >tackles >came when he came in the league playing SS his first few >years. >
36. "wrong question: it should be was Woodson better than Deion or any" In response to Reply # 32
other great cornerback since he really was a cornerback that got moved to safety later in his career as most CBs do.
>Slouch against the run....at all > > >He just not as hard a hitter as Lott was > > >And LMAO if u think Reed doesn't intimidate
LOL - I've never heard opposing players say they were fearful of catching the ball because they knew Reed was somewhere near by. If anything, they were aware of him because they didn't want him to get a pick and take it back to the house....he just doesn't strike fear in WRs or other offensive players the way Lott use to.
>The nigga was out 6 games last year and STILL bested in int's
yep he definitely beasted after missing nearly a 3rd of the season. He's no doubt in the convo as is Polamalu but I like Lott because he was more versatile and could do more from the free safety position than Reed. >Reed is the best
39. "you know I once heard Isaiah Thomas say out of his own mouth" In response to Reply # 37
that Tim Hardaway was better than him.
former athletes are always kinda self deprecating when talking abt themselves...(at most of them)
he'd kinda look like a douche if he was boasting how he was better than Reed or anyone else. I'm sure you would never hear Joe Montana say he's better than Peyton Manning even though he was.
40. "lol...touche'....i wanna be clear that Lott set the mark...Reed past it" In response to Reply # 39
and that ain't takin nothin away from Lott...at all
But as far as a game changer....Reed the best who ever done it
And like I asked above..what criteria are we basing this on?
Hits- lott..easily...then atwater Run stopping- Polamalu Picks- Reed...and Woodson is up there too Big plays- Reed Covering receivers- ................not sure
41. "But dude is talking outta both sides of his mouth" In response to Reply # 40
Offenses feared Lott and were aware of his presence on every play. WTF do you think it is with Reed??? Before every single snap the opposing QB and WR first job is to locate #20 and figure out where he's gonna be.
I remember before the playoff game in NE, Belichick was talking about how its a chore to play against Reed cuz of the different mindgames and breadth of knowledge he has. He pointed out a play where he picked off Manning, and at first it just looked like an overthrow, but he said it was set up over the first half by Reed giving a certain look then changing it up in the 2nd. Manning expected one defense and threw to a spot, he got another and was picked off. The smartest football play of the year. If thats not intimidation, then wtf is?
For Reed the numbers are there. The tackles are there (showing he does show up in run support), the forced fumbles the picks and even the special team stuff (block punts and returns). The overall defensive stats are there. The opposing QB stats are there. People just so in love with the 80's they scared to call it what it is.
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When I think of something clever or profound I'll put it here.
49. "it was pretty successful" In response to Reply # 47
love reed, dude is top 5, not the goat though IMO.
lewis is cold as hell, definitely the best MLB in my lifetime. couldn't really compare him with the greats of the 50s and 60s, not sure i have great context there. reed i'd be looking more at guys from the 80s to present as his peers.
And you will know MY JACKET IS GOLD when I lay my vengeance upon thee.
52. "I remember Lott even doing work on the Raiders." In response to Reply # 0
Didn't he do work on the Jets too.
Simply put Lott did work. Alot of work.
And has the rings, half a finger, highlights, and 50 year old former NFL tough niggaz still waking up in cold sweats cuz of some shit that happened in the 80s.
------------------------- The other dude after me didnt help my case. It was just like crazy nigga factory going on. Dre makes no apologies for his own eccentricities. I was young, and searching, trying to find myself, he says. Never did.-- Andre B
65. "1. Ronnie Lott would be out of the league if he played today..." In response to Reply # 0
...the hits you are giving him props for, are MOSTLY illegal in today's NFL. Hell, if players today could hit like the 80's, Chris Harris, Harrison, hell Ray Lewis would have even more accolades.
2. Polamalu is a strong safety and can only be a strong. Sean Taylor when he was alive was better at strong, and Rodney Harrison is a better strong. He is not better than Reed.
3. Carnell Lake and Rod Woodson had more of an impact as DB's because they could play ANYWHERE at a ProBowl level. They are both better DB's than Troy
4. Ronnie Lott Jack Tatum Ed Reed could play any safety position or corner and are my top 3 FS. Reed and Lott are 1a and 1b to me.
5. Had Brian Urlacher played SS in the league, he would have been the best SS ever.
6. Sean Taylor was a better Free than he was at strong he was just big as shit and fast as hell freak of nature.
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