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"Variety's exposé on Marvel Studios' Kevin problem."


          

This is A LOT to process, but it's been apparently clear for quite some time that Kevin snuffs out any creative risks.

https://variety.com/2023/film/features/marvel-jonathan-majors-problem-the-marvels-reshoots-kang-1235774940/

Crisis at Marvel: Jonathan Majors Back-Up Plans, ‘The Marvels’ Reshoots, Reviving Original Avengers and More Issues Revealed
By Tatiana Siegel

This past September, a group of Marvel creatives, including studio chief Kevin Feige, assembled in Palm Springs for the studio’s annual retreat. Most years, the vibe would have been confident — even cocky — given how the premier superhero brand, owned by Disney since 2009, has remade the entertainment business in its image.

But this occasion was angst-ridden — everyone at Marvel was reeling from a series of disappointments on-screen, a legal scandal involving one of its biggest stars and questions about the viability of the studio’s ambitious strategy to extend the brand beyond movies into streaming. The most pressing issue to be discussed at the retreat was what to do about Jonathan Majors, the actor who had been poised to carry the next phase of the Marvel Cinematic Universe but instead is headed to a high-profile trial in New York later this month on domestic violence charges. The actor insists he is the victim, but the damage to his reputation and the chance he could lose the case has forced Marvel to reconsider its plans to center the next phase of its interlocking slate of sequels, spinoffs and series around Majors’ villainous character, Kang the Conqueror.


At the gathering in Palm Springs, executives discussed backup plans, including pivoting to another comic book adversary, like Dr. Doom. But making any shift would carry its own headaches: Majors was already a big presence in the MCU, including as the scene-stealing antagonist in February’s “Ant-Man and the Wasp: Quantumania.” And he has been positioned as the franchise’s next big thing in this season of “Loki” — particularly in the finale, which airs on Nov. 9 and sets up Kang as the titular star of a fifth “Avengers” film in 2026.


“Marvel is truly fucked with the whole Kang angle,” says one top dealmaker who has seen the final “Loki” episode. “And they haven’t had an opportunity to rewrite until very recently . But I don’t see a path to how they move forward with him.”

Beyond the bad press for Majors, the brain trust at Marvel is also grappling with the November release of “The Marvels,” a sequel to 2019’s blockbuster “Captain Marvel” that has been plagued with lengthy reshoots and now appears likely to underwhelm at the box office.


This is all an unprecedented turn of fortune for a company that has enjoyed a nearly uninterrupted string of hits ever since it started independently producing its movies with 2008’s “Iron Man.” That wildly profitable run culminated in the $2.8 billion success of 2019’s “Avengers: Endgame,” a high-water mark for the studio that has earned nearly $30 billion over 32 films.

Replicating that kind of phenomenon is never easy. However, the source of Marvel’s current troubles can be traced back to 2020. That’s when the COVID pandemic ushered in a mandate to help boost Disney’s stock price with an endless torrent of interconnected Marvel content for the studio’s fledgling streaming platform, Disney+. According to the plan, there would never be a lapse in superhero fare, with either a film in theaters or a new television series streaming at any given moment.

But the ensuing tsunami of spandex proved to be too much of a good thing, and the demands of churning out so much programming taxed the Marvel apparatus. Moreover, the need to tease out an interwoven storyline over so many disparate shows, movies and platforms created a muddled narrative that baffled viewers.

“The Marvel machine was pumping out a lot of content. Did it get to the point where there was just too much, and they were burning people out on superheroes? It’s possible,” says Wall Street analyst Eric Handler, who covers Disney. “The more you do, the tougher it is to maintain quality. They tried experimenting with breaking in some new characters, like Shang-Chi and Eternals, with mixed results. With budgets as big as these, you need home runs.”

“The Marvels,” which opens in theaters on Nov. 10, will struggle to get the ball past the infield, at least by Marvel’s outsized standards. The movie, which cost $250 million and sees Brie Larson reprising her role as Captain Marvel, is tracking to open to $75 million-$80 million — far below the $185 million “Doctor Strange in the Multiverse of Madness” took in domestically in its debut weekend last year.

Directed by Nia DaCosta, “The Marvels” unites Larson’s heroine with two superpowered allies, Teyonah Parris’ Monica Rambeau (introduced in the 2021 Disney+ series “WandaVision”) and Iman Vellani’s Kamala Khan (first seen in the 2022 series “Ms. Marvel”). But instead of seamlessly building on the success of “Captain Marvel,” this move resulted in four weeks of reshoots to bring coherence to a tangled storyline.

Then eyebrows were raised again when DaCosta began working on another film while “The Marvels” was still in postproduction — the filmmaker moved to London earlier this year to begin prepping for her Tessa Thompson drama “Hedda.” (A representative for DaCosta declined to comment.)

“If you’re directing a $250 million movie, it’s kind of weird for the director to leave with a few months to go,” says a source familiar with the production.


“The Marvels” has seen its release date moved back twice, too, once to swap places with “Quantumania,” which was deemed further along, and again when its debut shifted from July to November to give the filmmakers more time to tinker. But that extra time didn’t necessarily help. In June, Marvel, which traditionally only solicits feedback from Disney employees and their friends and families, took the uncharacteristic step of holding a public test screening in Texas. The audience gave the film middling reviews.


Feige isn’t the only person showing signs of strain. Marvel’s entire VFX battalion, including staffers and vendors, is struggling to keep pace with a never-ending stream of productions. This past February, when the credits rolled at the world premiere of “Quantumania,” shock rippled through the Regency Village Theatre in Westwood over some shoddy CGI. “There were at least 10 scenes where the visual effects had been added at the last minute and were out of focus,” says one veteran power broker who was there. “It was insane. I’ve never seen something like that in my entire career. Everyone was talking about it. Even the kids of executives were talking about it.”

The schedule swap with “The Marvels” had left the “Ant-Man” sequel in a squeeze, pushing up its postproduction schedule by four-and-a-half months. Marvel films are known for coming down to the wire, given Feige’s ability “to foam the runway and land a plane that way,” says one executive familiar with how the company operates. But this level of unfinished was unprecedented and would be noted in scathing reviews when the tentpole with the $200 million budget opened 11 days after the premiere. Critics weren’t the only ones dismayed. Fed up with 14-hour days and no overtime, Marvel VFX workers voted unanimously to unionize in September, sparking an industrywide trend.

“The year 2023 was the straw that broke the camel’s back,” says former Marvel Studios VFX assistant coordinator Anna George, who appeared before the Congressional Labor Caucus on Oct. 19 to testify about the studio’s untenable deadlines and working conditions. “The pay and long hours at Marvel were the reason we had to start our unionization process there. The conditions were completely unsustainable.”

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Crisis at Marvel: Jonathan Majors Back-Up Plans, ‘The Marvels’ Reshoots, Reviving Original Avengers and More Issues Revealed
By Tatiana Siegel

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This past September, a group of Marvel creatives, including studio chief Kevin Feige, assembled in Palm Springs for the studio’s annual retreat. Most years, the vibe would have been confident — even cocky — given how the premier superhero brand, owned by Disney since 2009, has remade the entertainment business in its image.

But this occasion was angst-ridden — everyone at Marvel was reeling from a series of disappointments on-screen, a legal scandal involving one of its biggest stars and questions about the viability of the studio’s ambitious strategy to extend the brand beyond movies into streaming. The most pressing issue to be discussed at the retreat was what to do about Jonathan Majors, the actor who had been poised to carry the next phase of the Marvel Cinematic Universe but instead is headed to a high-profile trial in New York later this month on domestic violence charges. The actor insists he is the victim, but the damage to his reputation and the chance he could lose the case has forced Marvel to reconsider its plans to center the next phase of its interlocking slate of sequels, spinoffs and series around Majors’ villainous character, Kang the Conqueror.


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At the gathering in Palm Springs, executives discussed backup plans, including pivoting to another comic book adversary, like Dr. Doom. But making any shift would carry its own headaches: Majors was already a big presence in the MCU, including as the scene-stealing antagonist in February’s “Ant-Man and the Wasp: Quantumania.” And he has been positioned as the franchise’s next big thing in this season of “Loki” — particularly in the finale, which airs on Nov. 9 and sets up Kang as the titular star of a fifth “Avengers” film in 2026.


“Marvel is truly fucked with the whole Kang angle,” says one top dealmaker who has seen the final “Loki” episode. “And they haven’t had an opportunity to rewrite until very recently . But I don’t see a path to how they move forward with him.”

Beyond the bad press for Majors, the brain trust at Marvel is also grappling with the November release of “The Marvels,” a sequel to 2019’s blockbuster “Captain Marvel” that has been plagued with lengthy reshoots and now appears likely to underwhelm at the box office.


This is all an unprecedented turn of fortune for a company that has enjoyed a nearly uninterrupted string of hits ever since it started independently producing its movies with 2008’s “Iron Man.” That wildly profitable run culminated in the $2.8 billion success of 2019’s “Avengers: Endgame,” a high-water mark for the studio that has earned nearly $30 billion over 32 films.

Replicating that kind of phenomenon is never easy. However, the source of Marvel’s current troubles can be traced back to 2020. That’s when the COVID pandemic ushered in a mandate to help boost Disney’s stock price with an endless torrent of interconnected Marvel content for the studio’s fledgling streaming platform, Disney+. According to the plan, there would never be a lapse in superhero fare, with either a film in theaters or a new television series streaming at any given moment.

But the ensuing tsunami of spandex proved to be too much of a good thing, and the demands of churning out so much programming taxed the Marvel apparatus. Moreover, the need to tease out an interwoven storyline over so many disparate shows, movies and platforms created a muddled narrative that baffled viewers.

“The Marvel machine was pumping out a lot of content. Did it get to the point where there was just too much, and they were burning people out on superheroes? It’s possible,” says Wall Street analyst Eric Handler, who covers Disney. “The more you do, the tougher it is to maintain quality. They tried experimenting with breaking in some new characters, like Shang-Chi and Eternals, with mixed results. With budgets as big as these, you need home runs.”

“The Marvels,” which opens in theaters on Nov. 10, will struggle to get the ball past the infield, at least by Marvel’s outsized standards. The movie, which cost $250 million and sees Brie Larson reprising her role as Captain Marvel, is tracking to open to $75 million-$80 million — far below the $185 million “Doctor Strange in the Multiverse of Madness” took in domestically in its debut weekend last year.

Directed by Nia DaCosta, “The Marvels” unites Larson’s heroine with two superpowered allies, Teyonah Parris’ Monica Rambeau (introduced in the 2021 Disney+ series “WandaVision”) and Iman Vellani’s Kamala Khan (first seen in the 2022 series “Ms. Marvel”). But instead of seamlessly building on the success of “Captain Marvel,” this move resulted in four weeks of reshoots to bring coherence to a tangled storyline.

Then eyebrows were raised again when DaCosta began working on another film while “The Marvels” was still in postproduction — the filmmaker moved to London earlier this year to begin prepping for her Tessa Thompson drama “Hedda.” (A representative for DaCosta declined to comment.)

“If you’re directing a $250 million movie, it’s kind of weird for the director to leave with a few months to go,” says a source familiar with the production.


“The Marvels” has seen its release date moved back twice, too, once to swap places with “Quantumania,” which was deemed further along, and again when its debut shifted from July to November to give the filmmakers more time to tinker. But that extra time didn’t necessarily help. In June, Marvel, which traditionally only solicits feedback from Disney employees and their friends and families, took the uncharacteristic step of holding a public test screening in Texas. The audience gave the film middling reviews.


But Marvel has never been in the business of being average. “Kevin’s real superpower, his genius, has always been in postproduction and getting his hands on movies and making sure that they finished strongly,” the source adds. “These days, he’s spread thin.” (Feige declined to comment for this story.)

Feige isn’t the only person showing signs of strain. Marvel’s entire VFX battalion, including staffers and vendors, is struggling to keep pace with a never-ending stream of productions. This past February, when the credits rolled at the world premiere of “Quantumania,” shock rippled through the Regency Village Theatre in Westwood over some shoddy CGI. “There were at least 10 scenes where the visual effects had been added at the last minute and were out of focus,” says one veteran power broker who was there. “It was insane. I’ve never seen something like that in my entire career. Everyone was talking about it. Even the kids of executives were talking about it.”

The schedule swap with “The Marvels” had left the “Ant-Man” sequel in a squeeze, pushing up its postproduction schedule by four-and-a-half months. Marvel films are known for coming down to the wire, given Feige’s ability “to foam the runway and land a plane that way,” says one executive familiar with how the company operates. But this level of unfinished was unprecedented and would be noted in scathing reviews when the tentpole with the $200 million budget opened 11 days after the premiere. Critics weren’t the only ones dismayed. Fed up with 14-hour days and no overtime, Marvel VFX workers voted unanimously to unionize in September, sparking an industrywide trend.

“The year 2023 was the straw that broke the camel’s back,” says former Marvel Studios VFX assistant coordinator Anna George, who appeared before the Congressional Labor Caucus on Oct. 19 to testify about the studio’s untenable deadlines and working conditions. “The pay and long hours at Marvel were the reason we had to start our unionization process there. The conditions were completely unsustainable.”


Disney’s top brass, including newly returned CEO Bob Iger, was said to be apoplectic about Marvel’s VFX troubles. One month after the “Quantumania” premiere debacle, the guillotine fell on Victoria Alonso, who oversaw the studio’s physical production, postproduction, VFX and animation. While the reason cited for her abrupt firing was her unauthorized role as an executive producer on the Oscar-
nominated film “Argentina, 1985,” insiders say Disney was incensed that quality control on its Marvel productions was plummeting, particularly on the ever-expanding TV front. The VFX logjam had been evident for some time, with some final effects for such Disney+ series as “WandaVision” and “She-Hulk: Attorney at Law” inserted after their streaming debuts. That Alonso was busy promoting her art-house project while Rome burned certainly didn’t sit well with Disney’s leadership. (Alonso’s attorney says her client is unable to comment.)

Hulk,” a flashback of star Tatiana Maslany’s transformation into her Hulk character didn’t take place until Episode 8, the penultimate episode. But after Marvel’s brain trust watched footage, it realized the scene needed to happen in the pilot episode so that audiences could see more of the character’s backstory early. That meant that the VFX team was tasked with fixing the mess in postproduction.

“The so-called bad VFX we see was because of half-baked scripts,” says one person involved with “She-Hulk.” “That is not Victoria. That is Kevin. And even above Kevin. Those issues should be addressed in preproduction. The timeline is not allowing the Marvel executives to sit with the material.”

All the while, Marvel was bleeding money, with a single episode of “She-Hulk” costing some $25 million, dwarfing the budget of a final-season episode of HBO’s “Game of Thrones, ” but without a similar Zeitgeist bang. The August 2022 series premiere at the El Capitan Theatre foreshadowed what was to come six months later at the “Quantumania” bow: the “She-Hulk” special effects were out of focus in multiple scenes.

There are signs that the flood of product is leading people to tune out. “I’m not prepared to call it a permanent fall. But based on the numbers that go with Marvel podcasts, Marvel-based articles, friends who do Marvel-based video coverage, all of these numbers are significantly down,” says Joanna Robinson, co-author of the New York Times bestseller “MCU: The Reign of Marvel Studios,” who is a writer and podcaster at The Ringer. “The quality is suffering. In 2019, at the peak, if you put ‘Marvel Studios’ in front of something, people were like, ‘Oh, that brand means quality.’ That association is no longer the case because there have been so many projects that felt half-baked and undercooked.”

As public criticism mounts, Feige is pulling the plug on scripts and projects that aren’t working. Case in point: the “Blade” reboot. With Mahershala Ali signed on for the eponymous role of a vampire, things looked promising for a 2023 release date. But the project has gone through at least five writers, two directors and one shutdown six weeks before production. One person familiar with the script permutations says the story at one point morphed into a narrative led by women and filled with life lessons. Blade was relegated to the fourth lead, a bizarre idea considering that the studio had two-time Oscar winner Ali on board.

Amid reports that Ali was ready to exit over script issues, Feige went back to the drawing board and hired Michael Green, the Oscar-nominated writer of “Logan,” to start anew. Speculation around town is that the studio is looking to make the film, now slated for 2025, on a budget of less than $100 million — a deviation from Marvel’s big-spending strategy.

With Iger publicly acknowledging the downside of a Marvel TV glut that “diluted focus and attention,” the keepers of the comic book empire are considering some dramatic moves. Sources say there have been talks to bring back the original gang for an “Avengers” movie. This would include reviving Robert Downey Jr.’s Iron Man and Scarlett Johansson’s Black Widow, both of whom were killed off in “Endgame.” (That shouldn’t be a stumbling block — in comic books, beloved characters are often killed off, only to be resurrected thanks to the power of things like the multiverse.) But the studio hasn’t yet committed to the idea — if it were able to bring those actors back, it wouldn’t come cheap. Sources say Downey Jr.’s upfront salary for “Iron Man 3” was around $25 million.

Will that solve Marvel’s Majors problem? When the “Quantumania” actor was arrested in March, Disney executives insisted that they could afford to play a wait-and-see game, given that “Avengers: The Kang Dynasty” wasn’t expected to begin shooting until early 2024. But then Majors was dropped in quick succession by his publicists and managers. (He remains a client at WME — the agency where he landed after CAA parted ways with him, pre-arrest, for his “brutal conduct” toward staff, says one source. CAA declined to comment.) In April, other alleged domestic violence victims of Majors began cooperating with the Manhattan District Attorney’s Office. Then, ahead of a key hearing in October, media outlets including Variety obtained a court filing that referenced a police incident in London involving Majors that led his ex-girlfriend to seek medical attention. Making matters even stickier, the ex-girlfriend also worked on “Quantumania” as a movement coach, and the London incident took place while Majors was shooting Season 2 of “Loki.” On Oct. 25, a New York judge denied Majors’ motion to dismiss the case, which ensures that the actor will stand trial in late November. His legal team is attempting to keep some material in the case sealed.

A studio source notes that regardless of the actor’s legal issues, Marvel already had considered moving away from a Majors-led phase because of the box office performance of “Quantumania,” which will struggle to make a profit. “It gave people pause given that ‘Quantumania’ didn’t exactly land,” the source says. (On Oct. 27, Disney removed another Majors film, Searchlight’s “Magazine Dreams,” from the release calendar.)

Recasting Majors is also an option, as Feige did when he replaced Terrence Howard in “Iron Man 2” with Don Cheadle. In fact, Marvel isn’t afraid to change direction, even after making splashy announcements. “Armor Wars” was first unveiled as a series and is now being developed as a feature, while the studio’s push to adapt the comic book “Inhumans” into a feature film generated headlines but is now dormant. (The now-defunct Marvel Television mounted an “Inhumans” TV series in 2017 that ran for one season on ABC.)

This past September, a group of Marvel creatives, including studio chief Kevin Feige, assembled in Palm Springs for the studio’s annual retreat. Most years, the vibe would have been confident — even cocky — given how the premier superhero brand, owned by Disney since 2009, has remade the entertainment business in its image.

But this occasion was angst-ridden — everyone at Marvel was reeling from a series of disappointments on-screen, a legal scandal involving one of its biggest stars and questions about the viability of the studio’s ambitious strategy to extend the brand beyond movies into streaming. The most pressing issue to be discussed at the retreat was what to do about Jonathan Majors, the actor who had been poised to carry the next phase of the Marvel Cinematic Universe but instead is headed to a high-profile trial in New York later this month on domestic violence charges. The actor insists he is the victim, but the damage to his reputation and the chance he could lose the case has forced Marvel to reconsider its plans to center the next phase of its interlocking slate of sequels, spinoffs and series around Majors’ villainous character, Kang the Conqueror.


At the gathering in Palm Springs, executives discussed backup plans, including pivoting to another comic book adversary, like Dr. Doom. But making any shift would carry its own headaches: Majors was already a big presence in the MCU, including as the scene-stealing antagonist in February’s “Ant-Man and the Wasp: Quantumania.” And he has been positioned as the franchise’s next big thing in this season of “Loki” — particularly in the finale, which airs on Nov. 9 and sets up Kang as the titular star of a fifth “Avengers” film in 2026.


“Marvel is truly fucked with the whole Kang angle,” says one top dealmaker who has seen the final “Loki” episode. “And they haven’t had an opportunity to rewrite until very recently . But I don’t see a path to how they move forward with him.”

Beyond the bad press for Majors, the brain trust at Marvel is also grappling with the November release of “The Marvels,” a sequel to 2019’s blockbuster “Captain Marvel” that has been plagued with lengthy reshoots and now appears likely to underwhelm at the box office.


This is all an unprecedented turn of fortune for a company that has enjoyed a nearly uninterrupted string of hits ever since it started independently producing its movies with 2008’s “Iron Man.” That wildly profitable run culminated in the $2.8 billion success of 2019’s “Avengers: Endgame,” a high-water mark for the studio that has earned nearly $30 billion over 32 films.

Replicating that kind of phenomenon is never easy. However, the source of Marvel’s current troubles can be traced back to 2020. That’s when the COVID pandemic ushered in a mandate to help boost Disney’s stock price with an endless torrent of interconnected Marvel content for the studio’s fledgling streaming platform, Disney+. According to the plan, there would never be a lapse in superhero fare, with either a film in theaters or a new television series streaming at any given moment.


But the ensuing tsunami of spandex proved to be too much of a good thing, and the demands of churning out so much programming taxed the Marvel apparatus. Moreover, the need to tease out an interwoven storyline over so many disparate shows, movies and platforms created a muddled narrative that baffled viewers.

“The Marvel machine was pumping out a lot of content. Did it get to the point where there was just too much, and they were burning people out on superheroes? It’s possible,” says Wall Street analyst Eric Handler, who covers Disney. “The more you do, the tougher it is to maintain quality. They tried experimenting with breaking in some new characters, like Shang-Chi and Eternals, with mixed results. With budgets as big as these, you need home runs.”

“The Marvels,” which opens in theaters on Nov. 10, will struggle to get the ball past the infield, at least by Marvel’s outsized standards. The movie, which cost $250 million and sees Brie Larson reprising her role as Captain Marvel, is tracking to open to $75 million-$80 million — far below the $185 million “Doctor Strange in the Multiverse of Madness” took in domestically in its debut weekend last year.

Directed by Nia DaCosta, “The Marvels” unites Larson’s heroine with two superpowered allies, Teyonah Parris’ Monica Rambeau (introduced in the 2021 Disney+ series “WandaVision”) and Iman Vellani’s Kamala Khan (first seen in the 2022 series “Ms. Marvel”). But instead of seamlessly building on the success of “Captain Marvel,” this move resulted in four weeks of reshoots to bring coherence to a tangled storyline.

Then eyebrows were raised again when DaCosta began working on another film while “The Marvels” was still in postproduction — the filmmaker moved to London earlier this year to begin prepping for her Tessa Thompson drama “Hedda.” (A representative for DaCosta declined to comment.)

“If you’re directing a $250 million movie, it’s kind of weird for the director to leave with a few months to go,” says a source familiar with the production.


“The Marvels” has seen its release date moved back twice, too, once to swap places with “Quantumania,” which was deemed further along, and again when its debut shifted from July to November to give the filmmakers more time to tinker. But that extra time didn’t necessarily help. In June, Marvel, which traditionally only solicits feedback from Disney employees and their friends and families, took the uncharacteristic step of holding a public test screening in Texas. The audience gave the film middling reviews.


But Marvel has never been in the business of being average. “Kevin’s real superpower, his genius, has always been in postproduction and getting his hands on movies and making sure that they finished strongly,” the source adds. “These days, he’s spread thin.” (Feige declined to comment for this story.)


Feige isn’t the only person showing signs of strain. Marvel’s entire VFX battalion, including staffers and vendors, is struggling to keep pace with a never-ending stream of productions. This past February, when the credits rolled at the world premiere of “Quantumania,” shock rippled through the Regency Village Theatre in Westwood over some shoddy CGI. “There were at least 10 scenes where the visual effects had been added at the last minute and were out of focus,” says one veteran power broker who was there. “It was insane. I’ve never seen something like that in my entire career. Everyone was talking about it. Even the kids of executives were talking about it.”

The schedule swap with “The Marvels” had left the “Ant-Man” sequel in a squeeze, pushing up its postproduction schedule by four-and-a-half months. Marvel films are known for coming down to the wire, given Feige’s ability “to foam the runway and land a plane that way,” says one executive familiar with how the company operates. But this level of unfinished was unprecedented and would be noted in scathing reviews when the tentpole with the $200 million budget opened 11 days after the premiere. Critics weren’t the only ones dismayed. Fed up with 14-hour days and no overtime, Marvel VFX workers voted unanimously to unionize in September, sparking an industrywide trend.

“The year 2023 was the straw that broke the camel’s back,” says former Marvel Studios VFX assistant coordinator Anna George, who appeared before the Congressional Labor Caucus on Oct. 19 to testify about the studio’s untenable deadlines and working conditions. “The pay and long hours at Marvel were the reason we had to start our unionization process there. The conditions were completely unsustainable.”


Disney’s top brass, including newly returned CEO Bob Iger, was said to be apoplectic about Marvel’s VFX troubles. One month after the “Quantumania” premiere debacle, the guillotine fell on Victoria Alonso, who oversaw the studio’s physical production, postproduction, VFX and animation. While the reason cited for her abrupt firing was her unauthorized role as an executive producer on the Oscar-
nominated film “Argentina, 1985,” insiders say Disney was incensed that quality control on its Marvel productions was plummeting, particularly on the ever-expanding TV front. The VFX logjam had been evident for some time, with some final effects for such Disney+ series as “WandaVision” and “She-Hulk: Attorney at Law” inserted after their streaming debuts. That Alonso was busy promoting her art-house project while Rome burned certainly didn’t sit well with Disney’s leadership. (Alonso’s attorney says her client is unable to comment.)


But some internal sources suggest Alonso was a scapegoat and point to the “She-Hulk” VFX issues as a symptom of a deeper rot — namely a lack of oversight on script development. In the original arc of “She-Hulk,” a flashback of star Tatiana Maslany’s transformation into her Hulk character didn’t take place until Episode 8, the penultimate episode. But after Marvel’s brain trust watched footage, it realized the scene needed to happen in the pilot episode so that audiences could see more of the character’s backstory early. That meant that the VFX team was tasked with fixing the mess in postproduction.

“The so-called bad VFX we see was because of half-baked scripts,” says one person involved with “She-Hulk.” “That is not Victoria. That is Kevin. And even above Kevin. Those issues should be addressed in preproduction. The timeline is not allowing the Marvel executives to sit with the material.”

All the while, Marvel was bleeding money, with a single episode of “She-Hulk” costing some $25 million, dwarfing the budget of a final-season episode of HBO’s “Game of Thrones, ” but without a similar Zeitgeist bang. The August 2022 series premiere at the El Capitan Theatre foreshadowed what was to come six months later at the “Quantumania” bow: the “She-Hulk” special effects were out of focus in multiple scenes.

There are signs that the flood of product is leading people to tune out. “I’m not prepared to call it a permanent fall. But based on the numbers that go with Marvel podcasts, Marvel-based articles, friends who do Marvel-based video coverage, all of these numbers are significantly down,” says Joanna Robinson, co-author of the New York Times bestseller “MCU: The Reign of Marvel Studios,” who is a writer and podcaster at The Ringer. “The quality is suffering. In 2019, at the peak, if you put ‘Marvel Studios’ in front of something, people were like, ‘Oh, that brand means quality.’ That association is no longer the case because there have been so many projects that felt half-baked and undercooked.”

As public criticism mounts, Feige is pulling the plug on scripts and projects that aren’t working. Case in point: the “Blade” reboot. With Mahershala Ali signed on for the eponymous role of a vampire, things looked promising for a 2023 release date. But the project has gone through at least five writers, two directors and one shutdown six weeks before production. One person familiar with the script permutations says the story at one point morphed into a narrative led by women and filled with life lessons. Blade was relegated to the fourth lead, a bizarre idea considering that the studio had two-time Oscar winner Ali on board.

Amid reports that Ali was ready to exit over script issues, Feige went back to the drawing board and hired Michael Green, the Oscar-nominated writer of “Logan,” to start anew. Speculation around town is that the studio is looking to make the film, now slated for 2025, on a budget of less than $100 million — a deviation from Marvel’s big-spending strategy.

With Iger publicly acknowledging the downside of a Marvel TV glut that “diluted focus and attention,” the keepers of the comic book empire are considering some dramatic moves. Sources say there have been talks to bring back the original gang for an “Avengers” movie. This would include reviving Robert Downey Jr.’s Iron Man and Scarlett Johansson’s Black Widow, both of whom were killed off in “Endgame.” (That shouldn’t be a stumbling block — in comic books, beloved characters are often killed off, only to be resurrected thanks to the power of things like the multiverse.) But the studio hasn’t yet committed to the idea — if it were able to bring those actors back, it wouldn’t come cheap. Sources say Downey Jr.’s upfront salary for “Iron Man 3” was around $25 million.

Will that solve Marvel’s Majors problem? When the “Quantumania” actor was arrested in March, Disney executives insisted that they could afford to play a wait-and-see game, given that “Avengers: The Kang Dynasty” wasn’t expected to begin shooting until early 2024. But then Majors was dropped in quick succession by his publicists and managers. (He remains a client at WME — the agency where he landed after CAA parted ways with him, pre-arrest, for his “brutal conduct” toward staff, says one source. CAA declined to comment.) In April, other alleged domestic violence victims of Majors began cooperating with the Manhattan District Attorney’s Office. Then, ahead of a key hearing in October, media outlets including Variety obtained a court filing that referenced a police incident in London involving Majors that led his ex-girlfriend to seek medical attention. Making matters even stickier, the ex-girlfriend also worked on “Quantumania” as a movement coach, and the London incident took place while Majors was shooting Season 2 of “Loki.” On Oct. 25, a New York judge denied Majors’ motion to dismiss the case, which ensures that the actor will stand trial in late November. His legal team is attempting to keep some material in the case sealed.

A studio source notes that regardless of the actor’s legal issues, Marvel already had considered moving away from a Majors-led phase because of the box office performance of “Quantumania,” which will struggle to make a profit. “It gave people pause given that ‘Quantumania’ didn’t exactly land,” the source says. (On Oct. 27, Disney removed another Majors film, Searchlight’s “Magazine Dreams,” from the release calendar.)

Recasting Majors is also an option, as Feige did when he replaced Terrence Howard in “Iron Man 2” with Don Cheadle. In fact, Marvel isn’t afraid to change direction, even after making splashy announcements. “Armor Wars” was first unveiled as a series and is now being developed as a feature, while the studio’s push to adapt the comic book “Inhumans” into a feature film generated headlines but is now dormant. (The now-defunct Marvel Television mounted an “Inhumans” TV series in 2017 that ran for one season on ABC.)


Still, there was one bright spot in 2023: “Guardians of the Galaxy Vol. 3,” which became Marvel’s biggest draw of the year with $845 million worldwide. The fact that it was directed by James Gunn, the guy now running rival DC Studios, was lost on no one.

“With Marvel, it used to be as close to a guarantee as you could get,” says Paul Dergarabedian, a box office analyst at Comscore. “So, going all in on the budgets made sense. ‘Guardians 3’ was a bit overlooked in how successful it was. But that had James Gunn and Chris Pratt, and I think star power is becoming more important. Then there was ‘Quantummania’ with $476 million. Anything under a half billion dollars is viewed as a disappointment. And these overreaching expectations are a result of so much success over the years.”

The key to reinvigorating Marvel may lie with the superhero arsenal that Disney acquired during its 2019 purchase of 21st Century Fox. That deal brought several blue-chip heroes, such as the X-Men and the Fantastic Four, back under the studio’s control. Already fans are geeking out about next year’s “Deadpool 3,” which unites Ryan Reynolds’ merc with a mouth with Hugh Jackman’s Wolverine, and a reboot of “Fantastic Four” slated for 2025. As a bonus, the Fox additions give Feige an opportunity to reimagine the “X-Men” franchise, the very property he cut his teeth on as a young executive at Lauren Shuler Donner’s production company. Now that the WGA strike is in the rearview mirror, Marvel has started talking to writers about bringing the X-Men into the MCU fold.

While Feige recalibrates, the rest of the industry is anxiously hoping that Marvel’s best days are not behind it.

“Writing the Marvel obituary would be ill-advised,” says Jason Squire, professor emeritus at USC School of Cinematic Arts and host of “The Movie Business Podcast.” “Kevin Feige is the Babe Ruth of movie executives, and Marvel has the most profitable track record in movie history. No question.”

------------------------------------------
America from 9:00 on: https://youtu.be/GUwLCQU10KQ

  

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Topic Outline
Subject Author Message Date ID
I can’t wait to read this
Nov 10th 2023
1
I've been scratching my head at the Majors' issue
Nov 10th 2023
2
Not at all. If they recast and the charges are dropped against Majors
Nov 10th 2023
4
      If it was just the initial allegaion, I'd agree.
Nov 10th 2023
5
           I didn’t even know about the other allegations til this story .
Nov 11th 2023
11
They need to get back to actual character-driven stories.
Nov 10th 2023
3
that'd be a start. the multiverse just doesn't work.
Nov 10th 2023
6
Blade teaching me life lessons is fucking hilarious tho
Nov 11th 2023
9
RE: They need to get back to actual character-driven stories.
Nov 11th 2023
10
your success is your greatest enemy
Nov 10th 2023
7
Saw a report last night that Cap 4 is undergoing heavy reshoots.
Nov 11th 2023
8
I think it's not a coincidence...
Nov 13th 2023
14
      That's true
Nov 13th 2023
15
The run of great movies had to end...
Nov 11th 2023
12
This is not true.
Nov 13th 2023
13
      You're right that those filmmakers have vision and executed
Nov 14th 2023
16
           I get what you're saying
Nov 14th 2023
17
For me, Endgame was a harbinger of this disarray
Nov 26th 2023
18
Bob Iger- Marvels needed more executive supervision lmao
Nov 30th 2023
19
Yeah fuck that.
Nov 30th 2023
20

Tiger Woods
Member since Feb 15th 2004
18388 posts
Fri Nov-10-23 10:10 AM

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1. "I can’t wait to read this "
In response to Reply # 0


  

          


I think often about how something that was so full of energy and captured the public’s attention to such an extant could so abruptly fall off a cliff. Marvel went from Taylor Swift status to Black Eyed Peas corny in less than a presidential term

Eternals showed cracks forming, but Love and Thunder was when I dipped for good

  

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pretentious username
Member since Jun 18th 2010
12493 posts
Fri Nov-10-23 11:55 AM

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2. "I've been scratching my head at the Majors' issue"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

The VFX and oversaturation issues are of their own making and the org needs to do some soul-searching/house cleaning to fix those. Might take a while.

The Majors issue was not of their own making and is an easy fix. Just recast the role. Majors is obviously a tremendous actor and perfect for the role, so I get that this all sucks, but there's too much baggage here. Unless they've already recast the role and they were just waiting for the Majors stuff they already shot to air, I truly do not get how it's taking so long to find a solution.

  

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Buddy_Gilapagos
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Fri Nov-10-23 03:19 PM

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4. "Not at all. If they recast and the charges are dropped against Majors"
In response to Reply # 2


  

          

which certain reporting says is very likely, the backlash could be huge. I personally would be like f*ck Marvel.

It's weird to me they didn't do their own investigation. What's in the public record sounds like someone is clearly lying and it can be verifiable who with a little bit of due diligence.



>The VFX and oversaturation issues are of their own making and
>the org needs to do some soul-searching/house cleaning to fix
>those. Might take a while.
>
>The Majors issue was not of their own making and is an easy
>fix. Just recast the role. Majors is obviously a tremendous
>actor and perfect for the role, so I get that this all sucks,
>but there's too much baggage here. Unless they've already
>recast the role and they were just waiting for the Majors
>stuff they already shot to air, I truly do not get how it's
>taking so long to find a solution.


**********
"Everyone has a plan until you punch them in the face. Then they don't have a plan anymore." (c) Mike Tyson

"what's a leader if he isn't reluctant"

  

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pretentious username
Member since Jun 18th 2010
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Fri Nov-10-23 04:26 PM

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5. "If it was just the initial allegaion, I'd agree."
In response to Reply # 4


  

          

There's enough smoke here that the controversy is not going away regardless of how this case turns out. Hinging your next phase on a guy with that much baggage is risky as hell.

  

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Tiger Woods
Member since Feb 15th 2004
18388 posts
Sat Nov-11-23 01:40 PM

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11. "I didn’t even know about the other allegations til this story ."
In response to Reply # 5


  

          

I mean I know I still have to say allegedly, but he’s allegedly a serial abuser of women

  

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Frank Longo
Member since Nov 18th 2003
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Fri Nov-10-23 12:51 PM

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3. "They need to get back to actual character-driven stories."
In response to Reply # 0
Fri Nov-10-23 12:55 PM by Frank Longo

  

          

When you think about Iron Man 1-3, Thor 1-3, Captain America 1-2, the first Ant Man, the Guardians movies, the first Black Panther-- these were not movies designed to be The Next Episode of A Larger Universe, spending a ton of time setting up other characters or future stories to be told in other franchises. They were stories designed around a clear character arc. And those character arcs made us like those characters. There was a post-credit tag, sure, or sometimes a buddy from another movie would roll through... but the movies were still mostly isolated, still driven by main characters we cared about.

Now Iron Man's gone, Captain America's gone, Black Panther's gone, James Gunn is gone so the Guardians are gone. The last Ant-Man, Doctor Strange, and Thor movies had some fun individual elements but definitely weren't movies rooted around character arcs that made us care about the characters and made us think "I NEED to see what happens next to them!" (Doctor Strange had Wanda, who people cared about, but now she's gone too.) Tom Holland says he's taking a break from acting. So, like... who do we have left that mass audiences truly *care* about?

They have a ton of characters in way too many movies and TV shows, but in their rush to glut the market with content, the storytelling and-- perhaps more importantly-- the style/visuals of these movies have really suffered. It's hard to earn trust back in a brand unless they can crank out consecutive hits in a row. And sure, the movies are still making money today, but the overall trend line is also very clearly pointing downward since Endgame. They'll have a hit in Deadpool 3, but that's also because it's playing the nostalgia card with Hugh Jackman's Wolverine-- the same card the last Spider-Man movie played. Like, eventually, you'll run out of people to bring back, lol. Captain America 4 isn't going to work-- Mackie is good but not a guy you build your cinematic universe around. Thunderbolts is a disaster waiting to happen. They need to stop dicking around with these "let's make each new movie/TV show a new episode in the universe's journey!" and focus on making good straight forward character-driven stories.

And the stuff about Blade in that article makes me worried they may just be increasingly out of touch with what the audience wants, lol. Blade isn't complicated! It's John Wick with vampires! Give Blade someone to care about, have a big vampire kill that person, have Blade murder a bunch of henchman vampires using cool anti-vampire weapons, end with the fight with the Big Bad. It's so insanely uncomplicated! Why must the suits try to complicate everything by saying "but how can we add more characters and expand the cinematic universe?" You expand the universe by making ONE good character in ONE good movie and letting the audience give a shit about them!

So I think it's honestly not hard to envision Marvel turning things around-- they need to pare down, focus on characters, make their movies into events instead of episodes, let the directors actually put a personal stamp on their movies, and give FX houses enough pay and time to make the movies not look like muddy digital shit. That's a lot of things-- kind of like re-directing a battleship, it takes time for the turn to execute-- but it wouldn't be *that* hard. The question becomes: do we think Marvel wants to do that? Or do they want to just keep announcing Big Team Up Movies and Shows to give the next quarter's stock a temporary boost? Given how many studios don't view movies as movies anymore, but as mere assets in a grander conglomerate shareholder report, it's easy to get cynical. But since I grew up on Marvel comics, I'd love for them to figure it out.

My movies: http://russellhainline.com
My movie reviews: https://letterboxd.com/RussellHFilm/
My beer TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@thebeertravelguide

  

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will_5198
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Fri Nov-10-23 06:47 PM

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6. "that'd be a start. the multiverse just doesn't work."
In response to Reply # 3


          

even without the issues with Majors they needed to drop the idea of tying another 3-5 movies into Kang and this multiverse storyline. it's not interesting.

--------

  

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Mafamaticks
Member since Jan 12th 2004
4667 posts
Sat Nov-11-23 11:08 AM

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9. "Blade teaching me life lessons is fucking hilarious tho"
In response to Reply # 3
Sat Nov-11-23 11:10 AM by Mafamaticks

  

          

The idea of Blade being like "Now you see kids..."

  

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go mack
Member since May 02nd 2008
4020 posts
Sat Nov-11-23 11:35 AM

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10. "RE: They need to get back to actual character-driven stories."
In response to Reply # 3


  

          

Iron Man 2 was similar to these late ones actually but still with RDJ had a charismatic star and hero people cared about. These lesser known characters portrayed by lesser known stars just isn't going to drive audiences to theaters.


Spoiler for those who haven't seen Marvels

Mid-credit scene would have been more exciting to me with a new actor playing the character instead of Kelsey Grammer. I thought MCU was going to reboot X-Men when they got the rights instead of treading out the same old actors.

  

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will_5198
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Fri Nov-10-23 06:59 PM

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7. "your success is your greatest enemy"
In response to Reply # 0


          

lots of arrogance thinking anything they shit out will turn to gold

awfully planned content churn that has diluted their brand loyalty, one of the worst short-term decisions you can ever make

the article laid out their solution though, and it's simple:

get the X-Men and Fantastic Four right.

the general public knows the characters already, there are a ton of dynamic characters for writers to explore and two iconic main villains ready to lead a multi-movie arc in Magneto and Dr. Doom.

stop with the shitty TV series (which were much better done on Netflix). stop with the stupid spin-off movies that should really be TV series. go back to square one -- Phase 1 origin stories with perfect casting that build up the X-Men and FF franchise.

let Endgame be what it should have been. the end.

--------

  

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bwood
Member since Apr 03rd 2006
8614 posts
Sat Nov-11-23 08:25 AM

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8. "Saw a report last night that Cap 4 is undergoing heavy reshoots."
In response to Reply # 0


          

Like when does this type of fix it in post shit end?

Why not just have a GREAT script from the outset?

Why bot just let the directors of the movies make the movies instead of snuffing out what makes them unique? Isn't that what you hired them to do in the first place?

Someone needs to tell Kevin to keep his hands off the wheels of the cars for a whole and just let the driver drive.

------------------------------------------
America from 9:00 on: https://youtu.be/GUwLCQU10KQ

  

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Frank Longo
Member since Nov 18th 2003
86672 posts
Mon Nov-13-23 01:44 PM

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14. "I think it's not a coincidence..."
In response to Reply # 8


  

          

... that when you look going forward at the entire slate of Marvel products, you see a lot of TV directors and "Sundance" directors. They aren't there to put their voice into a product, they're there to be a warm body on set.

Doesn't mean some of the movies can't turn out well, but... it definitely means that the decisions being made in these products are coming from on high, not from the filmmakers. Which also means a lot more "fix it in post" mentality.

My movies: http://russellhainline.com
My movie reviews: https://letterboxd.com/RussellHFilm/
My beer TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@thebeertravelguide

  

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bwood
Member since Apr 03rd 2006
8614 posts
Mon Nov-13-23 09:04 PM

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15. "That's true"
In response to Reply # 14


          

But that also kills any creativity these new cats have. And it sucks.

------------------------------------------
America from 9:00 on: https://youtu.be/GUwLCQU10KQ

  

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obsidianchrysalis
Member since Jan 29th 2003
8751 posts
Sat Nov-11-23 07:39 PM

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12. "The run of great movies had to end..."
In response to Reply # 0
Sat Nov-11-23 07:40 PM by obsidianchrysalis

  

          

I used to moan about "superhero-movie burnout," but I don't think that's what causing people to lose interest. The sheer number of productions in play season to season across TV and movies would either, cause the production leads to burn out, even if they maintained the quality. Or lead to laxer quality-control.

People aren't going to these movies because no one is going to the movies anymore, but also, the films just haven't been excellent, which is why people went in the first place.

We all take it for granted how difficult truly timeless and original projects are to create. I don't think filmmakers go into a project intending for the product to be shitty. It just happens.

The studios can do things, such as give filmmakers good notes and resources so they can do their work. But most importantly, great art takes time and rest. And Marvel and Disney haven't given these projects enough time in the oven to cure before being released.

But, that's inevitable given how much Disney invested in Disney+ and their corporate re-organization.

I don't know if I fault Marvel as much as Disney, given that studios generally make dumb decisions on a film in the name of maximizing returns on that one film. But knowing decisions over several projects have to be nailed so that Wall Street is satisfied is an absurd amount of pressure and destined to trip someone up. Even with the track record Feige has.

As far as Feige as a producer, I can't argue with his run of success or can really expect much more of him.

Across the board, I think there's room for different voices. But, the movies post-Endgame included directors with a wide variety of styles and approaches to their work, and many landed flat. If Feige failed those projects, I think it's because he likely didn't have the time to really steer those filmmakers along during the production process so the movies could successfully meld the filmmaker's and Feige's sensibilities. I know the floors of studios are dusted with page shavings and spilled blood from creative, innovative writers and directors. But sometimes, creatives need direction, even if they have bold ideas. If only because these are productions with 9-figure budgets. You just can't get terribly innovative at that price.

<--- Me when my head hits the pillow

  

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bwood
Member since Apr 03rd 2006
8614 posts
Mon Nov-13-23 05:25 AM

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13. "This is not true. "
In response to Reply # 12


          

>
>I don't know if I fault Marvel as much as Disney, given that
>studios generally make dumb decisions on a film in the name of.
>Across the board, I think there's room for different voices.
>But, the movies post-Endgame included directors with a wide
>variety of styles and approaches to their work, and many
>landed flat. If Feige failed those projects, I think it's
>because he likely didn't have the time to really steer those
>filmmakers along during the production process so the movies
>could successfully meld the filmmaker's and Feige's
>sensibilities. I know the floors of studios are dusted with
>page shavings and spilled blood from creative, innovative
>writers and directors. But sometimes, creatives need
>direction, even if they have bold ideas. If only because these
>are productions with 9-figure budgets. You just can't get
>terribly innovative at that price.


Nolan and Denis Villeneuve are known for making blockbuster art with their signature on it.

Fuck Ridley Scott, Steven Spielberg, Scorsese, and most recently Greata Gerwig all are studio filmmakers who make big budget movies with their voices and vision

------------------------------------------
America from 9:00 on: https://youtu.be/GUwLCQU10KQ

  

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obsidianchrysalis
Member since Jan 29th 2003
8751 posts
Tue Nov-14-23 01:43 AM

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16. "You're right that those filmmakers have vision and executed"
In response to Reply # 13


  

          

But, still, you listed only six filmmakers.

Don't get me wrong, I like many of the works of the directors you listed. But, and I'm not being dismissive, is that many filmmakers aren't both talented enough and able to make their sensibilities accessible to a wide audience.

With respect to Marvel, you'd have to give full creative control over to one of those leading directors you mentioned. Since these stories have to exist in the realm of other stories, the director may take the universe, in a novel direction, maybe. But it might also be one that other filmmakers can't replicate the level of storytelling.

Like, take Villeneuve, a filmmaker who can basically do no wrong to me. Dune is a great film, and it made $400M worldwide. Maybe if he works with a story that is more accessible to audiences than that of Dune the return on investment might be better. But a $400M Marvel movie gets directors put in "jail."

And while I think Blade Runner 2048 is one of the best sci-fi movies in recent memory, it didn't do all that well box office wise.

Cameron is the only director making sci-fi that consistently creates massively successful films. But the storylines of the Avatar movies aren't that interesting and with Disney needing to pump out content, the thought of them waiting 4 years in between films is untenable.

I get on a selfish level that giving talented filmmakers license to create their masterpieces leads to a healthier creative space in Hollywood. And even when there are misses, like Villenueve's Blade Runner, they are spectacular, or at least can be admired for their ambition.

But, with a company like Disney investing billions of dollars into a streaming service and having to report above expectations to Wall Street, it doesn't create the environment for big swings, creatively. For as much as Marvel is pop art and was a landmark for big-budget storytelling on a scale we may never see again, it is basically a line-item on a ledger. It has to sell tickets, a lot of tickets. Otherwise, the ends don't justify the means to Disney.

Is all of this good for cinema? In the near term, probably not. Art finds a way, though. The good thing is that it was the excellence of the storytelling is what led to Marvel's historic run. I think with some restructuring, Feige can find his way again.

<--- Me when my head hits the pillow

  

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bwood
Member since Apr 03rd 2006
8614 posts
Tue Nov-14-23 06:21 AM

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17. "I get what you're saying "
In response to Reply # 16


          

But look at LOKI and the MS. MARVEL episodes by Bilal & Adil. They can tell great stories with artful craft. They just refuse to

------------------------------------------
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Beamer6178
Member since Jan 09th 2006
6379 posts
Sun Nov-26-23 09:05 PM

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18. "For me, Endgame was a harbinger of this disarray"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

Stuff that I think about more and more. And most of these issues were not necessarily "point of no return," independently, but together, the left the movie and the MCU as a whole, in a clusterfuck. I'm honing in on the biggest problems, not all of them, such as Bucky not catching wreck with the vibranium arm.

Painting themselves into a corner with the time-travel-->multiverse paradigm
Multiverse - The multiverse may have been inevitable, but it was kind of rushed and forced. Dr. Wanda was some utter gutter trash, and a hamfisted multiverse storyline could not have been helpful.

Time Travel - The time travel plotline wasn't bad, but trying to get us to believe that a "past" version of Thanos would carry the same weight as the beheaded Thanos, absent the same journey and personal loss, makes him a screw or a nail, rather than the fulcrum.

Captain Marvel's "back up" - What a patronizing girl power segment to make bad ass women serve as escorts to the most powerful one of them (except for Wanda) before she actually even needs them. They could have just beat ass without all that silly shit. there was lots of fights to be had! And would have been spectacular with Natasha participating...


Killing Widow instead of Hawkeye - Since becoming the Avengers, none of the OGs ever intentionally killed anyone who wasn't actively coming for them or harming other people. Following the snap, Hawkeye became an assassin who was actively hunting people, taking out rage against people who had nothing to do with the source of his pain. While it could be said that his family kept him on the right line, it's not clear on how long he was with SHIELD, and if that preceded him ever getting married. However, it would have been more poetic and in alignment with the unspoken pact the OG Avengers made in giving to the greater good, if the Ronin and the Barton family were never on Earth at the same time. AND he already got a save from Quicksilver in Age of Ultron. Killing Natasha made the Black Widow movie anti climactic as fuck (never even saw it, not motivated whatsoever) and frankly, her character had become much more compelling over the years with more potential storylines....although her death SHOULD have lead to some other outcomes...see below


HULK smashed - gonna drop this for some context...
https://screenrant.com/thanos-vs-fight-hulk-stronger-infinity-stones/#:~:text=When%20Thanos%20got%20control%20over,afraid%20to%20face%20the%20Hulk.

Hulk getting his ass beat early was a marvelous way to start things off, because it let us know Thanos was some next shit. However, reconciling Big Green with Bruce, in a position to actually touch Natasha, but never getting to before she dies, ain't enough to get him ANGRY???? I mean IF they gonna kill her, all he can do is throw a bench? THAT'S IT?? They let Cap pick up the hammer but Hulk gets no get back? in the biggest fight of all, they keep the biggest brawler on the sidelines? WRONG WRONG WRONG WRONG WRONG. I could not have expected to walk out of a movie so underwhelmed, after all that I had invested into a franchise.
The Russos had NO IDEA WHAT TO DO WITH HULK. They made him a fucking English professor who was forever castrated after one fucking fight.
Josh Whedon, horrible person, but knew how to handle Hulk. He provided 2 of the top 5 lines of the Avengers. To put him on the sidelines during the critical moment, when the other 3 of heavies are going for it was horrible execution and storytelling.
Many scenarios could have still had Tony making the ultimate sacrifice, but it will never sit right with me how they fucked up Hulk.

Now obviously, out of their control, the WORLD loses a light and MCU the heir apparent when Chadwick passed away. Wakanda Forever, in spite of some stupidly contrived conflict, is as good as it could have been, given the circumstances.

That doesn't excuse all of the other poor decisions made in Endgame and the resultant flops. Spider-Man has always kind of been a separate property and both live action and animated continue to be reliable.

Marvel has fallen into what DC was REALLY doing wrong, laying down checkpoints to a larger event, rather than telling a fucking story and bringing us characters we give a shit about. RDJ and ScarJo were the only known entities, and still not A lister, RDJ was rehabbing his image/life altogether, was a HUGE risk at the time. They could do it all again, if they were more patient.

Since Endgame, I have seen the Spider Men in the theater, fell asleep on Dr. Wanda in the theater, and watched Shang Chi (which I liked) at home. I enjoyed Wanda Vision, was let down by the ending of Falcon and the Winter Soldier, enjoyed Loki (haven't seen season 2), and liked She-Hulk for the most part, especially when Daredevil showed up.


they've made a metric fuckton of money so they don't HAVE to do anything, tbh. however, if they want to become a reliable brand again, they're gonna have to get back to basics. but i don't know whether i'll be around to see them. depends on if they attempt to do justice to Hulk.

  

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go mack
Member since May 02nd 2008
4020 posts
Thu Nov-30-23 03:28 PM

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19. "Bob Iger- Marvels needed more executive supervision lmao"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

This is the worst response yet. I'm sure directors will be lining up to work for MCU and have others watch their every move. Smh


https://ew.com/disney-bob-iger-explains-why-the-marvels-flopped-at-box-office-8409177

  

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bwood
Member since Apr 03rd 2006
8614 posts
Thu Nov-30-23 05:06 PM

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20. "Yeah fuck that."
In response to Reply # 19


          

Bird brain thinking

------------------------------------------
America from 9:00 on: https://youtu.be/GUwLCQU10KQ

  

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