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Subject: "The Last of Us (HBO, 2023)" Previous topic | Next topic
will_5198
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63106 posts
Mon Jan-16-23 12:34 AM

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"The Last of Us (HBO, 2023)"


          

I know of the game, but never played it. so I'm going in blind and don't have any thoughts about the adaptation.

but I thought it was a strong opener.

--------

  

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Topic Outline
Subject Author Message Date ID
I get to be a "book reader" this time!
Jan 16th 2023
1
they changed this bc of covid
Jan 16th 2023
4
I noticed this
Jan 16th 2023
11
      We’ve come a long way since DOOM
Jan 17th 2023
12
           tbf
Jan 17th 2023
16
Pedro Pascal is the hardest working man in Hollywood right now
Jan 16th 2023
2
Never played the games but Ellie is mad annoying in that ep
Jan 16th 2023
3
They might've gotten a little too clever with this, too
Jan 18th 2023
18
ha, her character bugged me too
Feb 25th 2023
79
the game was just a TV show with dogshit interactive sequences
Jan 16th 2023
5
It changed my breathing in a few spots.
Jan 16th 2023
6
Yup
Jan 16th 2023
9
the teenage girl made me so mad when she went outside
Jan 25th 2023
32
loooved the game, was psyched for this
Jan 16th 2023
7
Thought it was dope. Getting amazing reviews so far.
Jan 16th 2023
8
Great first ep.Love the logic behind the outbreak
Jan 16th 2023
10
Yeah that opening studio scene was really good.
Jan 17th 2023
13
Hate for it to become political, but the anti-government folks are going
Jan 17th 2023
14
Huge fan of both games....
Jan 17th 2023
15
daaaayyyum....!!!
Jan 17th 2023
17
Intense, legitamately scary, well acted.
Jan 18th 2023
19
I really enjoyed it
Jan 18th 2023
20
nice Depeche drop
Jan 19th 2023
21
2-2. Great start
Jan 23rd 2023
22
well that was BRISK.
Jan 23rd 2023
23
I'm feeling like there should be more FEDRA involvement
Jan 23rd 2023
26
      It seems like FEDRA is content being dictators in the QZ
Jan 23rd 2023
27
2nd ep was a lot better
Jan 23rd 2023
24
100%
Jan 23rd 2023
25
i thought they were both very good
Jan 25th 2023
31
Just read a pretty cool theory after Episode 2
Jan 24th 2023
28
Nice.
Jan 25th 2023
30
Anyone notice in Ep1, a few of people in the QZ
Jan 24th 2023
29
I’m captivated and locked in but this shit makes me itch.
Jan 28th 2023
33
^^^^^infected!!
Jan 28th 2023
34
*dead*
Jan 30th 2023
36
Wow
Jan 29th 2023
35
This episode was great, it was one of the best hours of TV I’ve seen
Jan 30th 2023
37
If you've ever been a wine guy, Jadot is a GREAT Beaujolais
Jan 30th 2023
38
I haven’t been this emotional since The Walking Dead (TellTale game)
Jan 30th 2023
39
This is an interesting response.
Jan 30th 2023
41
      I’ve only played the intro to the remastered TLoU.
Jan 30th 2023
43
           The storylines and graphics for the first game
Feb 21st 2023
76
                I really hope they make major changes to the storyline for the second
Feb 21st 2023
77
                     Since you played both games, I'll ask you.
Mar 17th 2023
109
                          I'd wager you'd have a slightly more negative reaction than I did.
Mar 18th 2023
110
                               To shed more clarity on why I disliked the second game
Mar 20th 2023
113
                                    I haven't played either game, but after watching this full season
Mar 20th 2023
115
I’d like my final glass of wine less chalky please
Jan 30th 2023
40
man that was boring as hell
Jan 30th 2023
42
Yeah this show really isn't doing it for me.
Jan 30th 2023
44
Amazing episode. Nick Offerman killed it.
Jan 30th 2023
45
Same
Jan 31st 2023
46
Great episode
Jan 31st 2023
47
The window shots are simple but so emblematic of the series
Jan 31st 2023
50
Gay Ron Swanson gotta be one of the most secure apocalypse buddies ever
Jan 31st 2023
48
If I had to live through an apocalypse
Jan 31st 2023
49
facts
Feb 01st 2023
52
wow
Feb 01st 2023
51
Next weeks ep is gonna be a tough one...
Feb 06th 2023
53
Mostly just game comparison stuff in this one
Feb 06th 2023
54
Ep 5 drops on Friday
Feb 09th 2023
55
Episode 5 (spoilers)
Feb 11th 2023
56
You knew it was going to happen…
Feb 11th 2023
57
Can’t say I would behave any differently.
Feb 11th 2023
58
at least all the sad parts are out of the way now!
Feb 12th 2023
59
More spoilers
Feb 14th 2023
66
These eps are FUCKING GUT WRENCHING
Feb 15th 2023
67
Man...
Feb 13th 2023
60
RE: Man...
Feb 13th 2023
61
Oh, 100%. A master class in world building.
Feb 14th 2023
62
Great Casting as well
Feb 14th 2023
63
I didn't know the actor who plays Henry.
Feb 14th 2023
64
This has been an interesting conversation to see come up
Feb 15th 2023
68
5 for 5 so far
Feb 14th 2023
65
they should've saved ep 5 for this week
Feb 15th 2023
69
Dark weeks, especially on shows like this, are killers
Feb 15th 2023
70
This was a wild departure!
Feb 20th 2023
71
I initially disliked this change here but.....
Feb 20th 2023
72
I know nothing about the source material but
Feb 21st 2023
73
yes...
Feb 21st 2023
74
I doubt Joel dies since this has been renewed for season 2
Feb 21st 2023
75
last of us? more like This Is Us
Feb 24th 2023
78
Flashback, filler episode
Feb 27th 2023
80
Not a filler. It's a part of the actual game.
Feb 28th 2023
81
      Games have filler too.
Feb 28th 2023
82
      hm touché
Mar 01st 2023
85
      I know that it’s part of the game but it still felt like a filler epis...
Feb 28th 2023
83
           RE: I know that it’s part of the game but it still felt like a filler ...
Feb 28th 2023
84
           Is "moving the story forward" a new thing in the streaming era?
Mar 01st 2023
86
           This love experience is a MASSIVE part of her backstory.
Mar 01st 2023
88
                didnt get any if that from the ep
Mar 01st 2023
89
Can we get a little bit more of the infected is my only gripe
Mar 01st 2023
87
hands insde, weve reached Sopranos nobody got capped territory
Mar 08th 2023
96
episode 8 should have been stretched over two episodes
Mar 06th 2023
90
Agreed. I thought it was really good
Mar 06th 2023
91
Yeah I would agree with that
Mar 06th 2023
92
Religious folks that be on bullshit…
Mar 06th 2023
93
yall would complain it didnt need 2 lol
Mar 16th 2023
107
could have plenty of gamer notes for this one, BUT
Mar 08th 2023
94
*I'll pop your knee cap off* is some gangsta sh*t
Mar 08th 2023
95
coming back to this
Mar 10th 2023
98
geezus that was amazing..Ellie is a trip
Mar 09th 2023
97
I firmly believe this should've had a normal 10-12 episode run.
Mar 13th 2023
99
the game really ended like that? Naughty Dog was on one
Mar 13th 2023
100
      RE: the game really ended like that? Naughty Dog was on one
Mar 14th 2023
102
      ^THIS^... for most people that played the game those doctors & nurses...
Mar 14th 2023
103
      I agree with this. I feel like the show started strong and faded down
Mar 14th 2023
104
           It kinda dumped a whole lot of ideas on the floor like Anna did Ellie
Mar 14th 2023
105
           They sent so much time on backstories and flashbacks
Mar 15th 2023
106
as someone who didnt play the game i dont get the hype with the show.
Mar 14th 2023
101
Played the game for the 1st time and watched the show in sync. Show >>>
Mar 17th 2023
108
Interesting!
Mar 19th 2023
111
      Higher highs.
Mar 20th 2023
114
Binged this over the weekend. Loved it.
Mar 20th 2023
112

Nodima
Member since Jul 30th 2008
15297 posts
Mon Jan-16-23 03:32 AM

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1. "I get to be a "book reader" this time!"
In response to Reply # 0
Mon Jan-16-23 03:34 AM by Nodima

  

          

Don't worry, I've played this game five, maybe six times, once very recently, any observations like that I'll keep to the episode in question. Luckily this story is way more straightforward so the source material doesn't offer me and any other geek too much runway to get in the weeds.


Before I do: after one episode, it's clearly a very well made TV show but unlike a book this is basically recasting two, quite honestly, Oscar-worthy performances from a motion capture performance just 9 years ago. It's like a reverse uncanny valley. The Walking Dead was also so goddamn popular for so long I wonder if zombie fatigue will weigh on this and/or how much.


As a huge, huge fan of both Part I and II I really like what I'm seeing so far and now that they've gotten the hard part out of the way (the pacing of this part of the game was always a bit stilted compared to the rest to make room for teaching the gameplay) I can't wait to see how the rest of it pans out.


THAT BEING SAID.


There aren't many significant deviations that aren't all that relevant, so I just want to point out that it's pretty clear Mazin played the game and the guy who made it is his right hand because it's pretty uncanny how similar some of the line delivery is. It often made me question whether the cast actually didn't watch longplays of the game prior to filming. Hell, about half of this episode had the exact same cinematography! That said, they did insert a little more, uh, "levity" that the game doesn't have (the kinda jokey interaction during the virus test outside the QZ) but I get it's TV and without the catharsis of the controller in your hand they gotta give the audience a break somehow.


One big change that seems a little weird: in the game, the final stage of the virus is just like the actual virus, in that the infected get rooted to a surface and spores burst out of their respiratory system into the air - hence the elaborate, Annihilation like mushroom formation around their corpse. I get that Pedro Pascal maybe didn't want to be in yet another show where he's wearing a mask at least half the time but the sight of a fungus-man tattooed to a wall doesn't have the same implication without that spore aspect so I found it weird for them to linger on one.


~~~~~~~~~
"This is the streets, and I am the trap." � Jay Bilas
http://www.popmatters.com/pm/archive/contributor/517
Hip Hop Handbook: http://tinyurl.com/ll4kzz

  

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Rjcc
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Mon Jan-16-23 02:18 PM

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4. "they changed this bc of covid"
In response to Reply # 1


          

>One big change that seems a little weird: in the game, the final stage of the virus is just like the actual virus, in that the infected get rooted to a surface and spores burst out of their respiratory system into the air - hence the elaborate, Annihilation like mushroom formation around their corpse. I get that Pedro Pascal maybe didn't want to be in yet another show where he's wearing a mask at least half the time but the sight of a fungus-man tattooed to a wall doesn't have the same implication without that spore aspect so I found it weird for them to linger on one.


masks being politicized etc.

www.engadgethd.com - the other stuff i'm looking at

  

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will_5198
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Mon Jan-16-23 11:51 PM

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11. "I noticed this"
In response to Reply # 1


          

>Hell, about half of this episode had the exact same
>cinematography!

again, never played the game, but when they try to escape Austin in the prologue there is a point of view from the truck's backseat -- it seemed very similar to how a video game would frame that sequence

--------

  

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Nodima
Member since Jul 30th 2008
15297 posts
Tue Jan-17-23 05:29 AM

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12. "We’ve come a long way since DOOM"
In response to Reply # 11
Tue Jan-17-23 05:32 AM by Nodima

  

          

The opening flashback adds a lot of extra world building because you can’t just assume everything will sink in the way you can with a controller in your hand.

In the game, it’s all just “dad comes home, watch gift, sleep, chaos” and you play as Sarah during it. The moment that really hits that they’re going for something is that you stay playing Sarah during that escape, and as you swivel the camera her hands even move from headrests to windows and so on. From the moment you leave the house until the car crash you can just look at whatever you imagine she would.

In that sense, I actually felt there was a little too much editing and perspective shifts outside of the back seat. But I totally get why that’d be logistically ridiculous to be so faithful to. I was rewatching as I was writing this and can’t imagine a better translation of that perspective/feeling other than a couple very abrupt edits.

In any case, cool to see how it translates so well to people who haven’t had the sticks in their hands.

~~~~~~~~~
"This is the streets, and I am the trap." � Jay Bilas
http://www.popmatters.com/pm/archive/contributor/517
Hip Hop Handbook: http://tinyurl.com/ll4kzz

  

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Rjcc
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Tue Jan-17-23 05:54 PM

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16. "tbf"
In response to Reply # 12


          

it wasn't like you could really do anything when you had the sticks



www.engadgethd.com - the other stuff i'm looking at

  

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calij81
Member since Jan 17th 2007
13928 posts
Mon Jan-16-23 04:05 AM

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2. "Pedro Pascal is the hardest working man in Hollywood right now"
In response to Reply # 0


          

I have heard of the game but never played it. I agree that it was a strong opening. I like the use of fungus as the catalyst to the fall of society.

  

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BrooklynWHAT
Member since Jun 15th 2007
85051 posts
Mon Jan-16-23 08:58 AM

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3. "Never played the games but Ellie is mad annoying in that ep"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

Gonna give it a few more eps to see where it goes

<--- Big Baller World Order

  

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Nodima
Member since Jul 30th 2008
15297 posts
Wed Jan-18-23 12:26 AM

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18. "They might've gotten a little too clever with this, too"
In response to Reply # 3


  

          

In the game, the first time you meet her is essentially what that hallway scene was in the show. And as they allude to (in a weirdly obscure way) Marlene knows Ellie.


Whereas here she's a prisoner for a bit to establish, I guess, that the Fireflies are trying to better society by any means necessary?


Hopefully with the exposition out of the way they don't have to make up reasons for Ellie to explain herself to the audience 'cause even putting my big boy hat on and looking at this episode from the outside she didn't offer the same charm the game's character does.


She's presented and performed as way more aware of the consequence of her existence in the game, whereas this episode presented her as kinda universally defiant instead of slowly developing a personality around her condition and caretakers. Curious to see how that develops.


~~~~~~~~~
"This is the streets, and I am the trap." � Jay Bilas
http://www.popmatters.com/pm/archive/contributor/517
Hip Hop Handbook: http://tinyurl.com/ll4kzz

  

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Robert
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Sat Feb-25-23 10:04 AM

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79. "ha, her character bugged me too"
In response to Reply # 3


          

(just watched first 2 eps last night)

my usual nitpicky shit granted, but they couldve directed the actress better.. she's a 14 year old living in a world crippled by a 20-year old pandemic--(in the scene where they're crossing the knee-deep water in hotel lobby) why would she ever know anything about what a bellhop would say pushing a luggage cart inside a hotel?

she went from this cool, sorta dark/mysterious haley joel osment-in-sixth sense type kid to like a bratty urkel-y "oops did i do thaat.." superquick and i lost my interest in her character accordingly

  

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Rjcc
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Mon Jan-16-23 02:18 PM

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5. "the game was just a TV show with dogshit interactive sequences"
In response to Reply # 0


          

so the show will be fine

www.engadgethd.com - the other stuff i'm looking at

  

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JFrost1117
Member since Aug 12th 2005
23876 posts
Mon Jan-16-23 05:12 PM

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6. "It changed my breathing in a few spots."
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

Seeing Nana first get affected while no one is looking and then seeing the fungi coming out of her mouth, yeesh.

I noped out of the game around the first stealth mission, but I’ve watched so much OutsideXbox during the pandemic that I pretty much know the full story. First episode was captivating enough to lock me in.

My favorite zombie trope is no one paying attention to the news/TV/radio at the beginning.

____________
Twitter & IG: @rulerofmyself
SC: rulerofmyself17

Yes! She's on the drugs. (c) BoHagon

  

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Ausar72
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Mon Jan-16-23 08:28 PM

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9. "Yup"
In response to Reply # 6


  

          


>My favorite zombie trope is no one paying attention to the
>news/TV/radio at the beginning.

Me as well... Train to Busan, Shaun of the Dead are my top two zombie flicks!

  

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makaveli
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Wed Jan-25-23 02:47 PM

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32. "the teenage girl made me so mad when she went outside"
In response to Reply # 6


  

          

right after it said not to go outside. she's taking random dogs back to their owner's home. it's not even her dog.

“So back we go to these questions — friendship, character… ethics.”

  

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benny
Member since Jan 15th 2003
8433 posts
Mon Jan-16-23 05:49 PM

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7. "loooved the game, was psyched for this"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

the first ep didn't really do it for me once they got past the flashback. Maybe that's because I expected too much of a quest-type show and don't care as much about the inner working of the Fireflies, but I'm hoping things will get better now that they've left the QZ

------------------------------
For the record, my teams:
MLB: Mets / Soccer: PSG
NCAA BB: Arizona / NCAA FB: Michigan
NBA: Spurs / NFL: Jets

  

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Sofian_Hadi
Member since Jan 03rd 2003
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Mon Jan-16-23 06:26 PM

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8. "Thought it was dope. Getting amazing reviews so far. "
In response to Reply # 0


          

Pedro is in a ton of hit shows. Good for him.

---------------------------------------

"The world is before you and you need not take it or leave it as it was when you came in." - James Baldwin

  

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Cold Truth
Member since Jan 28th 2004
44828 posts
Mon Jan-16-23 09:21 PM

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10. "Great first ep.Love the logic behind the outbreak"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

so far it's a great spin on the genre and I'm excited about what's to come.

  

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Sofian_Hadi
Member since Jan 03rd 2003
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Tue Jan-17-23 01:12 PM

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13. "Yeah that opening studio scene was really good. "
In response to Reply # 10


          

---------------------------------------

"The world is before you and you need not take it or leave it as it was when you came in." - James Baldwin

  

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Buddy_Gilapagos
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Tue Jan-17-23 03:03 PM

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14. "Hate for it to become political, but the anti-government folks are going"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

to love this.

A relatively small government agency takes over and starts overreaching and trampling on individual rights in the name of a pandemic?


**********
"Everyone has a plan until you punch them in the face. Then they don't have a plan anymore." (c) Mike Tyson

"what's a leader if he isn't reluctant"

  

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KnowOne
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Tue Jan-17-23 03:40 PM

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15. "Huge fan of both games...."
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

(actually part 1 us my fav game of all time.)

Love the first ep. Reading and hearing on pocasts that a lot of people who have not played the game dont like Elle/Bella. Seems like from the trailer that we will an ep covering the "Left behind" prequel, which may bring them onboard. hopefully they stick around till then.



_________________________________________
"Too weird to live.... too rare to die..."

IG: KnowOne215 | PS+ ID: KnowOne215

  

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Voodoochilde
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Tue Jan-17-23 08:35 PM

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17. "daaaayyyum....!!!"
In response to Reply # 0


          

this first episode was AMAZING....stressed us out in the BEST way!!!

damn thia was pretty much PERFECTLY executed IMO.

i dont have any knowledge of the source material, so im coming in blind, but LOVED this pilot ep. I am IN!

  

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spades
Member since Mar 22nd 2006
44256 posts
Wed Jan-18-23 10:54 AM

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19. "Intense, legitamately scary, well acted. "
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

HBO earns my money again. I'm with it.

********************************

Get Out The Room!
http://getouttheroom.podomatic.com
@fakewilliamkatt

"You probably wouldn't worry about what people think of you if you could know how seldom they do!" - Olin Miller

  

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chillinCHiEF
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Wed Jan-18-23 03:18 PM

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20. "I really enjoyed it"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

I'm generally pretty anti video game to TV/movie but this worked really well. Better than the game, imo, especially the Sarah parts.

  

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rdhull
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Thu Jan-19-23 02:12 PM

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21. "nice Depeche drop "
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

Or ending whatever

  

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Cold Truth
Member since Jan 28th 2004
44828 posts
Mon Jan-23-23 01:31 AM

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22. "2-2. Great start"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

I hope we continue to get flashbacks to the beginning of all of this.

  

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Nodima
Member since Jul 30th 2008
15297 posts
Mon Jan-23-23 02:25 AM

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23. "well that was BRISK."
In response to Reply # 0
Mon Jan-23-23 02:28 AM by Nodima

  

          

Again, startlingly faithful to the game in most ways, and I'm understanding better the slight deviations they've made. I really relished how surprisingly upbeat Station Eleven wound up being and get how that resonated with critics, but that only makes me happier that a show as dark as Last of Us is willing to get seems to have still found such a big audience given that this episode is such a tip of the iceberg.



"Book guy stuff"



I'm settled into the change from how the fungus operates in real life and the game. I read an interview where Druckmann explained that you can hand wave spores being confined to certain dark, underground areas in a video game but in real life they cling to objects and spread so aggressively you'd essentially always need to wear a mask no matter where you were. Then I came across mycologists (new term for my thesaurus!) saying essentially the same thing, while also explaining how mushrooms have these internet-like networks that can communicate where moisture is most conducive to growth. Fascinating, and it's cool they still found a real world parallel for the spread.

It also solves a narrative issue players might've been curious about going forward: in the game, Tess is killed by FEDRA agents tracking their party, which allows for some hide and seek gameplay escaping the state house. That network effect allows them to bypass that kind of stuff and is definitely effective in its own way. It'd be silly for this show to feature as many combat encounters as the game does, and going forward I imagine this will help them continue to bypass prolonged sneaking/combat situations. Smart.

Lastly, I did take slight issue with the Clickers. First of all, I can't believe this show nailed how terrifying they are, so I doubt a non-player would care about this at all. They brought the vocalizations over from the game which are perfect, and they look like hell on Earth. And yet...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tIHDP8sksFM

It takes all of six seconds for that link to establish how overpowering those fuckers are in the game, yet we see multiple shots of Joel and Tess fending them off. I'm fully aware this is a nitpick but I always loved how Clickers acted as a kind of meandering game over screen. The ones in this episode seemed just more eager to get their chomp on rather than steroidal. On that note, Tess' death involved a Runner (the basic zombies) acting pretty damn cognizant, which can easily be traced back to that hive mind alteration but still felt a little watered down compared to the source's infection progression.



----no more "Book Guy Stuff"-----


Again though, BRISK. I'm just nitpicking for those who might be curious, otherwise at this point I've got zero worries this'll be an awesome show whether someone's played the game(s) or not. What a win for Sony and HBO. Unlike the last episode, this one didn't even borrow so heavily from the cinematography of the game and settled into its own rhythms, while still allowing us geeks to keep an eye out for the line reads and moments when it does.



~~~~~~~~~
"This is the streets, and I am the trap." � Jay Bilas
http://www.popmatters.com/pm/archive/contributor/517
Hip Hop Handbook: http://tinyurl.com/ll4kzz

  

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Hitokiri
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26. "I'm feeling like there should be more FEDRA involvement "
In response to Reply # 23


  

          

than we've seen thus far, and I'm hoping they get that sorted out in the weeks ahead. I get that they feel they need to establish the zombies as a threat and I think they struggle between FEDRA and the Fireflies is a really important aspect to the story that isn't being mentioned much at this point

--

"You can't beat white people. You can only knock them out."

  

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calij81
Member since Jan 17th 2007
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Mon Jan-23-23 02:41 PM

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27. "It seems like FEDRA is content being dictators in the QZ"
In response to Reply # 26


          

It doesn’t seem like FEDRA goes outside the QZ often.

  

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BrooklynWHAT
Member since Jun 15th 2007
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24. "2nd ep was a lot better "
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

<--- Big Baller World Order

  

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benny
Member since Jan 15th 2003
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25. "100%"
In response to Reply # 24


  

          

I'm all in now

------------------------------
For the record, my teams:
MLB: Mets / Soccer: PSG
NCAA BB: Arizona / NCAA FB: Michigan
NBA: Spurs / NFL: Jets

  

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makaveli
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31. "i thought they were both very good"
In response to Reply # 24


  

          

“So back we go to these questions — friendship, character… ethics.”

  

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Paps_Smear
Member since Feb 02nd 2009
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Tue Jan-24-23 01:44 AM

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28. "Just read a pretty cool theory after Episode 2"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

*Spoilers*

At the start of Episode 2 we learn that the outbreak could have started at the flour mill in Jakarta.

In Episode 1 Joel's daughter didn't make him pancakes for his birthday. Joel and Sarah both refuse to eat the biscuits their neighbors made (the grandmother later turns). Sarah doesn't eat the cookies the neighbors make, and Joel forgets to buy himself a birthday cake before he comes home.

Thought that was a pretty nice touch.

=================
Official Okay-Super Villain™

I only play the games that I win at -
Gamertag: Innovator
PSN: DurtyGambino
Steam: Durty Gambino
Twitch.tv/durtygambino

  

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spades
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30. "Nice."
In response to Reply # 28


  

          

********************************

Get Out The Room!
http://getouttheroom.podomatic.com
@fakewilliamkatt

"You probably wouldn't worry about what people think of you if you could know how seldom they do!" - Olin Miller

  

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calij81
Member since Jan 17th 2007
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Tue Jan-24-23 02:26 PM

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29. "Anyone notice in Ep1, a few of people in the QZ "
In response to Reply # 0


          

Had hand or fingers amputated. I wonder if those people got bit on the hand and stopped the spread via amputation.

  

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JFrost1117
Member since Aug 12th 2005
23876 posts
Sat Jan-28-23 04:32 AM

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33. "I’m captivated and locked in but this shit makes me itch."
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

____________
Twitter & IG: @rulerofmyself
SC: rulerofmyself17

Yes! She's on the drugs. (c) BoHagon

  

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rdhull
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34. "^^^^^infected!!"
In response to Reply # 33


  

          

>

  

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BrooklynWHAT
Member since Jun 15th 2007
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36. "*dead*"
In response to Reply # 33


  

          

<--- Big Baller World Order

  

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rdhull
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35. "Wow"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

That was the best thing in tv right now.

  

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calij81
Member since Jan 17th 2007
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Mon Jan-30-23 01:50 AM

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37. "This episode was great, it was one of the best hours of TV I’ve seen"
In response to Reply # 0


          

  

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Nodima
Member since Jul 30th 2008
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Mon Jan-30-23 02:33 AM

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38. "If you've ever been a wine guy, Jadot is a GREAT Beaujolais"
In response to Reply # 0
Mon Jan-30-23 02:57 AM by Nodima

  

          

I'll admit, when casting was announced this (Bill) was one of the ones I was actually most skeptical of, if only because a very accomplished HBO alum originated the role (W. Earl Brown) and I could still easily see him in this version of it but Offerman really, really nailed it. I also loved how much focus there was on establishing a sense of place and history here (in the game, it's known as Bill's Town and purely a trap laden stealth section) because if you're going to purposefully avoid a lot of the gameplay sections, it's nice to have a better sense of who these guys are.


Edit because I let the comparative mind take over: Murray Bartlett and Nick Offerman delivered a beautiful story about appreciating the little pleasures of being alive choosing optimism over bitterness, and I get why the non-player viewers have been so taken with this episode. It's an episode that could totally stand on its own with or without the show buttressing it and evinces why these post apocalypse, zombie adjacent narratives have amassed such power in this pre-dystopian moment we envision ourselves living in.


Bill & Frank is a great reminder that even surrounded by loss and pain, even just one person can make it all acceptable and even background noise.


-----GAME STUFF BELOW-----



That being said, Joel and Bill have a really interesting rapport in the game and it's through that relationship that Ellie starts to get a better read on who Joel is, and what the people outside the QZ might mostly be like. Originally, this is where the battery comes into play, as Bill owns a truck and knows where a battery is and the three of them go on a mini adventure to get the truck running.

Narratively, that's a pretty big change, but in terms of characterization the letter Bill writes to Joel contains a decent chunk of a letter Joel finds in Bill's house. However, in the game that letter is from Frank to Bill, alongside a hanging Frank who committed suicide after an apparent argument between him and Bill. It's one of the more artfully subtle moments in the game but I think they repurposed it pretty craftily.

It would have been nice to see these versions of Ellie and Bill have some kind of interaction because they have SUCH different views of the world's past and future in the game, but removed from the fan lens this episode runs perpendicular to the first in that it takes some very explicit detours from the game and makes the show all the better for it. Bill's story in the game is mostly about survivalism and paranoia, with Frank a literally specter in his living room, which is maybe a little too dark for a 9 episode week to week blockbuster drama.


-----NO MORE GAME STUFF-----


I'm now officially purely stoked to see what they do and don't bring over from the game going forward.

Posting this outside of game related because it has nothing to do with the narrative but I do love the contrast between the Linda Ronstadt song Joel and Ellie listen to in the truck as they hit the highway in the show and the Hank Williams song they listen to in the game.

Game (there's a hard cut to this song, but I can't find anyone identifying the first song they play, so) - Hank Williams' "Alone and Forsaken" https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XIuRHp0gxAY

Show - Linda Ronstadt "Long Long Time" (with an emphasis on the "love will abide, take things in stride" opening line) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XIuRHp0gxAY

I'll really enjoy if the show continues to have this sort of subtle, metatextual conversation with its source material.

As a totally random musical aside, I felt like if I were the musical director of this show I'd have argued so hard for Jessica Pratt's "Back, Baby" to play over the credits: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pHwq8AUOCc8



~~~~~~~~~
"This is the streets, and I am the trap." � Jay Bilas
http://www.popmatters.com/pm/archive/contributor/517
Hip Hop Handbook: http://tinyurl.com/ll4kzz

  

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JFrost1117
Member since Aug 12th 2005
23876 posts
Mon Jan-30-23 03:39 AM

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39. "I haven’t been this emotional since The Walking Dead (TellTale game)"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

Fucking heartbreaking.

____________
Twitter & IG: @rulerofmyself
SC: rulerofmyself17

Yes! She's on the drugs. (c) BoHagon

  

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Numba_33
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41. "This is an interesting response."
In response to Reply # 39


  

          

You have this reaction although you played both games? I avoided wanting to watch this despite the fact I like the first game simply because of the terrible experience I had with the second game. Your reaction above almost makes me want to take interest in the show.

Almost.

"Sean sparks like John Starks, nah, Sean ball like John Wall" - Rest In Power Forever Sean Price.

  

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JFrost1117
Member since Aug 12th 2005
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Mon Jan-30-23 12:32 PM

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43. "I’ve only played the intro to the remastered TLoU."
In response to Reply # 41


  

          

I know the story tangentially from watching video game list videos on YouTube during the pandemic, but the show is really my first time getting immersed into it.

____________
Twitter & IG: @rulerofmyself
SC: rulerofmyself17

Yes! She's on the drugs. (c) BoHagon

  

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Numba_33
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76. "The storylines and graphics for the first game"
In response to Reply # 43


  

          

were mesmerizing to me at the time; the gameplay mechanics were so-so.

The graphics for the second game were top notch, but the storylines left such a bad taste in my mouth that that hesitate to even want to give this show a second of my time.


At the very least, I suggest you play the first game, especially if you're deeply invested in the show. The latter portion of the first game really picks up nicely in several aspects.

"Sean sparks like John Starks, nah, Sean ball like John Wall" - Rest In Power Forever Sean Price.

  

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calij81
Member since Jan 17th 2007
13928 posts
Tue Feb-21-23 07:06 PM

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77. "I really hope they make major changes to the storyline for the second "
In response to Reply # 76


          

Because it is bad.

  

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Numba_33
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109. "Since you played both games, I'll ask you."
In response to Reply # 77


  

          

Is this show worth watching knowing how tepid and abysmal the second game is? I mainly adored the story from the first game, but the huge disappointment from the second game soured me from wanting to give this show a shot.

"Sean sparks like John Starks, nah, Sean ball like John Wall" - Rest In Power Forever Sean Price.

  

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Nodima
Member since Jul 30th 2008
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Sat Mar-18-23 11:22 AM

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110. "I'd wager you'd have a slightly more negative reaction than I did."
In response to Reply # 109
Sat Mar-18-23 11:28 AM by Nodima

  

          

And depending on how you want to read my posts in this thread, I either gradually got less impressed by how the show adapted the game or think it totally failed.


But most relevant to your comment, which I both understand and don't fully agree with, is that this season was written knowing what they wanted to set up for following season(s) they were practically guaranteed to be making. Some smart critics have pointed out that this means some decisions are made about Ellie in particular that feel kind of perfunctory in the moment unless you know what the second game is about. And even if you don't pick up on that (I can admit I didn't) the season overall does have a bit of a Minority Report future cop vibe of setting things up that I'm sure doesn't come across at all for non-players.


So if you really reacted that strongly to Part II...honestly I'd say don't bother (I loved Part II, despite the Everything of all of it). My one caveat to this would be that the more I've listened to and read about the way the show depicts the game's ending, I think it disappointed me in ways that could potentially be really clever. And academically, it's neat to see something get delivered almost line for line and shot for shot feel so precisely different than it does in another medium.


The best meme phrase for a lot of the series is that, because it's written with Part II in mind and openly building towards that, this season often "said the quiet part loud". And if that was what you didn't like about Part II, again, that's what it is, for better or worse.


~~~~~~~~~
"This is the streets, and I am the trap." � Jay Bilas
http://www.popmatters.com/pm/archive/contributor/517
Hip Hop Handbook: http://tinyurl.com/ll4kzz

  

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Numba_33
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Mon Mar-20-23 08:14 AM

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113. "To shed more clarity on why I disliked the second game"
In response to Reply # 110


  

          

without spoiling things too much for folks here that haven't played it yet, the death that occurs fairly early in the game wasn't why I disliked it. Given how morose the world the characters are in, I wasn't too upset to see that character get that resolution to be perfectly honest. The inclusion of the second game's new main playable character and being forced to care deeply about them is why I didn't like the second game. The new character's storyline felt like a slog whenever the game devoted time to them. The lack of a true resolution at the end of the game only made matters worse in terms of the story as well. Having those two negative views points from the second game would constantly nag at me if I were to take the time to watch the show.

I am somewhat curious how much the show will deviate from the second game since if things deviate too much, there is the risk of going way off basis from what the second game established, which would feel wrong in a sense to be despite the fact I didn't like the second game at all. I suppose that could start an argument on if the showrunners owe it to the source material to be in 100% agreement on everything.

"Sean sparks like John Starks, nah, Sean ball like John Wall" - Rest In Power Forever Sean Price.

  

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soulfunk
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115. "I haven't played either game, but after watching this full season"
In response to Reply # 113


  

          

I watched the full story cutscenes for both games. And I definitely feel you about having to play from the perspective of that new main playable character. I don't see that working in a TV show....unless...

Would it make sense if the second season of the TV show was shown in a non-linear timeline? Moving the early death from the game to the midpoint of the season? Or if what they've hinted at in interviews is true and they break part 2 into seasons 2 and 3, moving that death to the end of season 2? Which would mean season 2 would be a non-linear story with two main characters/perspectives that intertwine in a few places leading up to that death, and season 3 being the aftermath and back half of Last of Us Part 2...

  

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Amritsar
Member since Jan 18th 2008
32090 posts
Mon Jan-30-23 07:58 AM

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40. "I’d like my final glass of wine less chalky please "
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

The wine to pills ratio tho lol

As others have said, this is the best thing on tv right now.

  

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BrooklynWHAT
Member since Jun 15th 2007
85051 posts
Mon Jan-30-23 09:47 AM

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42. "man that was boring as hell"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

It was “good” but man with all the prerelease hype on this ep I thought it was going to be some super exciting shit.

<--- Big Baller World Order

  

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Buddy_Gilapagos
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44. "Yeah this show really isn't doing it for me. "
In response to Reply # 42


  

          

I stopped watching Walking Dead because it didn't seem to have any new places to go and this show so far doesn't break any new ground in the genre. Like Ep 3 was a good Walking Dead episode but doesn't touch great HBO TV status.

I go back to Station 11 because that show had a very different take on the post apocalypse genre. With no zombies and 90% of the population dead, you really had to find new storytelling terrority as a opposed to stories about fighting for resources and survival.

I am not going to front, I will keep watching since it's HBO Sunday night and there isn't much competition. But this ain't great HBO TV so far.


**********
"Everyone has a plan until you punch them in the face. Then they don't have a plan anymore." (c) Mike Tyson

"what's a leader if he isn't reluctant"

  

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Sofian_Hadi
Member since Jan 03rd 2003
5626 posts
Mon Jan-30-23 07:33 PM

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45. "Amazing episode. Nick Offerman killed it. "
In response to Reply # 0


          

I love "deviate from the main story and show a mini story in the same world" episodes.

---------------------------------------

"The world is before you and you need not take it or leave it as it was when you came in." - James Baldwin

  

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Ashy Achilles
Member since Sep 22nd 2005
4548 posts
Tue Jan-31-23 08:40 AM

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46. "Same"
In response to Reply # 45


          

It was the rare TV episode that my wife watched without distraction

We were both teary-eyed

  

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makaveli
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47. "Great episode"
In response to Reply # 45


  

          

I loved the window shot at the end.

“So back we go to these questions — friendship, character… ethics.”

  

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Nodima
Member since Jul 30th 2008
15297 posts
Tue Jan-31-23 10:36 PM

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50. "The window shots are simple but so emblematic of the series"
In response to Reply # 47


  

          

The first game's start menu and the final shot of Part II (which this shot lifted pretty heavily from) evoke such specific moods simply from a window frame. Was cool to see them bring that to the show and in such an unexpected moment, for sure.


~~~~~~~~~
"This is the streets, and I am the trap." � Jay Bilas
http://www.popmatters.com/pm/archive/contributor/517
Hip Hop Handbook: http://tinyurl.com/ll4kzz

  

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josephmurf2384
Member since Nov 21st 2005
5289 posts
Tue Jan-31-23 04:15 PM

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48. "Gay Ron Swanson gotta be one of the most secure apocalypse buddies ever"
In response to Reply # 45


  

          

no one fucking with you.

  

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makaveli
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49. "If I had to live through an apocalypse"
In response to Reply # 48


  

          

That's where id want to be.

“So back we go to these questions — friendship, character… ethics.”

  

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spades
Member since Mar 22nd 2006
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Wed Feb-01-23 10:28 AM

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52. "facts"
In response to Reply # 48


  

          

********************************

Get Out The Room!
http://getouttheroom.podomatic.com
@fakewilliamkatt

"You probably wouldn't worry about what people think of you if you could know how seldom they do!" - Olin Miller

  

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spades
Member since Mar 22nd 2006
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51. "wow"
In response to Reply # 45


  

          

This show isn't fucking playing.

********************************

Get Out The Room!
http://getouttheroom.podomatic.com
@fakewilliamkatt

"You probably wouldn't worry about what people think of you if you could know how seldom they do!" - Olin Miller

  

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KnowOne
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Mon Feb-06-23 10:55 AM

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53. "Next weeks ep is gonna be a tough one..."
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

Glad it dropping Friday. I dont need a buzz kill after watching my Eagles win on Sunday lol.

_________________________________________
"Too weird to live.... too rare to die..."

IG: KnowOne215 | PS+ ID: KnowOne215

  

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Nodima
Member since Jul 30th 2008
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Mon Feb-06-23 01:27 PM

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54. "Mostly just game comparison stuff in this one"
In response to Reply # 0
Mon Feb-06-23 01:33 PM by Nodima

  

          

This was the first episode where I sometimes felt like it'd be nice to not be able to compare it to the game because they made a lot of small choices that added up to a slightly less visceral experience.


For example, in the game, in a really tight five minute stretch you go from dropping off Bill to Ellie noticing the porn magazine to Joel putting on the Hank Williams tape to the Slippin' Jimmy ambush happening on the highway itself and both Joel and Ellie getting yanked out of the truck and Joel almost getting his throat sliced open in a broken frozen food fridge.

It's visceral and exciting and really keeps the tension going, but in the show...a lot of that felt like plain fan service without much regard for pacing and I really could've just taken the changes they made without all the references wedged into it. The magazine specifically just felt wrong here; when Bill was a cantankerous, cranky old loser who pushed Frank to suicide purely because of his paranoia and anger, it made sense for Ellie to jubilantly make fun of the gay porn she stole from his basement and render his memory roadside trash. But after making Bill one of the most sympathetic characters we'll likely see on TV this year, to then say goodbye to him with the same dismissive tone?

Likewise, it's so marginal to care whether Ellie actually kills the guy like she does in the game, but paired with Joel's little "hurtin' people" it struck me as a little soft tonally.

In the game it's an absolute matter of pragmatism when Joel realizes he's coddling this military-trained child and being an idiot traveling with an unarmed buddy, but here they really play up the father/daughter stuff so the relationship doesn't feel as significantly changed IMO.


But SHIT that's just me, whatever. If I didn't have any of those reference points, I imagine I'd have loved this episode but unfortunately I couldn't feel like I was getting tossed around between the show's world and the game's world recklessly. I really, really enjoyed the episode on its own merits and am grateful for the Super Bowl pushing the next episode up a few days!

I get why for TV / new viewers they need to personalize the Hunters a little bit but I have to admit I don't care much other than the acting is good. Speaking of which...Sons of Anarchy homeboy is the original voice of Tommy in the games! Forgive the irony of complaining about fan service to open only to then mark out over a bit of fan service, but it was a little startling to suddenly hear that voice and see that THAT slab of beef and beard's been behind generic-ass Tommy all these years, lol. I think the last time I saw his face was almost a decade ago and he was far, far less Tier One Operator Skin 12 from Call of Duty at the time haha.


~~~~~~~~~
"This is the streets, and I am the trap." � Jay Bilas
http://www.popmatters.com/pm/archive/contributor/517
Hip Hop Handbook: http://tinyurl.com/ll4kzz

  

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JFrost1117
Member since Aug 12th 2005
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55. "Ep 5 drops on Friday"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

Likely for the Super Bowl.

____________
Twitter & IG: @rulerofmyself
SC: rulerofmyself17

Yes! She's on the drugs. (c) BoHagon

  

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Hitokiri
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56. "Episode 5 (spoilers)"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

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Yeah so... that one made me cry.

--

"You can't beat white people. You can only knock them out."

  

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calij81
Member since Jan 17th 2007
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Sat Feb-11-23 02:19 AM

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57. "You knew it was going to happen…"
In response to Reply # 56


          

  

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JFrost1117
Member since Aug 12th 2005
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Sat Feb-11-23 07:22 PM

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58. "Can’t say I would behave any differently."
In response to Reply # 56


  

          

The fuck would I wanna continue dealing with shitty humans and Infected that can tear heads off when my reason to live is gone?

____________
Twitter & IG: @rulerofmyself
SC: rulerofmyself17

Yes! She's on the drugs. (c) BoHagon

  

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Nodima
Member since Jul 30th 2008
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59. "at least all the sad parts are out of the way now!"
In response to Reply # 56


  

          

All action + adventure from here on out.


~~~~~~~~~
"This is the streets, and I am the trap." � Jay Bilas
http://www.popmatters.com/pm/archive/contributor/517
Hip Hop Handbook: http://tinyurl.com/ll4kzz

  

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makaveli
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Tue Feb-14-23 07:39 PM

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66. "More spoilers"
In response to Reply # 56


  

          

Lady Mormont was way too confident. I wouldn't have slept for one minute.

“So back we go to these questions — friendship, character… ethics.”

  

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spades
Member since Mar 22nd 2006
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67. "These eps are FUCKING GUT WRENCHING"
In response to Reply # 56


  

          

I may need (more) therapy by season's end.

********************************

Get Out The Room!
http://getouttheroom.podomatic.com
@fakewilliamkatt

"You probably wouldn't worry about what people think of you if you could know how seldom they do!" - Olin Miller

  

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Ryan M
Member since Oct 21st 2002
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Mon Feb-13-23 01:24 PM

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60. "Man..."
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

This show is truly so good. I don't even care about apocalyptic/zombie invasion type stories but I'm sucked in - kinda like how I felt about GOT/fantasy stuff, I guess.

Every one of these episodes killing off a character we barely saw but fell in love with is some shit, tho.

------------------------------

17x NBA Champions

  

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rdhull
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Mon Feb-13-23 08:27 PM

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61. "RE: Man..."
In response to Reply # 60


  

          

>This show is truly so good. I don't even care about
>apocalyptic/zombie invasion type stories but I'm sucked in -
>kinda like how I felt about GOT/fantasy stuff, I guess.
>
>Every one of these episodes killing off a character we barely
>saw but fell in love with is some shit, tho.


It's telling that one CAN fall in love with certain characters in only one episode, not taking several episodes to feel them, or a whole season. Great writing and acting all around.

  

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Ryan M
Member since Oct 21st 2002
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Tue Feb-14-23 01:47 AM

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62. "Oh, 100%. A master class in world building. "
In response to Reply # 61


  

          

And like i said - I don’t even fuck with zombie shit, or most video games, this much. Truly an example (at least right now) of how video games should be considered high, prestige art.

------------------------------

17x NBA Champions

  

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Sofian_Hadi
Member since Jan 03rd 2003
5626 posts
Tue Feb-14-23 09:42 AM

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63. "Great Casting as well "
In response to Reply # 61


          

These are some fairly well known actors and actresses that they convinced to pop in for one or two episodes.

---------------------------------------

"The world is before you and you need not take it or leave it as it was when you came in." - James Baldwin

  

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Ryan M
Member since Oct 21st 2002
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Tue Feb-14-23 12:55 PM

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64. "I didn't know the actor who plays Henry."
In response to Reply # 63


  

          

Holy shit he was incredible. His last few lines in episode 5? Amazing work.

------------------------------

17x NBA Champions

  

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Nodima
Member since Jul 30th 2008
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Wed Feb-15-23 01:52 PM

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68. "This has been an interesting conversation to see come up"
In response to Reply # 61


  

          

I guess I'm always far more interested in structure and plot than characters, in that I don't care much about my emotional attachment to any one character so much as whether a character serves their purpose to the overall story.


Obviously I love a good character, but I've been starting to see a complaint becoming more common that the show needs to slow down and stay awhile. My sort of joking response earlier was meant to imply that while the show's gonna stay sad, it's not staying the same TYPE of sad (trying to say enough with very little here) and that's totally by design.


Joel has a very specific goal. He never intended to be this far away from Boston, but Boston also wasn't his home without Tess. Ellie has a very specific goal and it's all the way over *there*. This was established super early, so when I see articles or subreddit comments complaining that the show won't have multiple more episodes in Kansas City to flesh out, like, the local politics or more of Kathleen and Perry's relationship or whatever...Joel and Ellie DON'T need or want to know any of that, and it's meant to feel just as fleeting as it is grandiose.


It's nice to see PTP seeing the show on that level, it's basically a TV show because it would've been so much harder to translate into a movie. The story itself is pretty basic, it's all about Joel and (increasingly) Ellie carving out an existence for themselves that makes sense for them. Nobody else matters unless they're family.


~~~~~~~~~
"This is the streets, and I am the trap." � Jay Bilas
http://www.popmatters.com/pm/archive/contributor/517
Hip Hop Handbook: http://tinyurl.com/ll4kzz

  

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makaveli
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Tue Feb-14-23 07:36 PM

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65. "5 for 5 so far"
In response to Reply # 60


  

          

“So back we go to these questions — friendship, character… ethics.”

  

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BrooklynWHAT
Member since Jun 15th 2007
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Wed Feb-15-23 02:40 PM

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69. "they should've saved ep 5 for this week"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

instead of doing a friday dump to avoid the superbowl. show was cooking w/ gas this week

<--- Big Baller World Order

  

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Ryan M
Member since Oct 21st 2002
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Wed Feb-15-23 04:10 PM

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70. "Dark weeks, especially on shows like this, are killers"
In response to Reply # 69


  

          

They want the ratings to continue to climb, not to pause and stop down for a week and hope they continue the streak.

With how TV is consumed nowadays - I thought the Friday drop was smart, and shows they aren't being precious about the whole "HBO's prestige shows are on Sundays and ONLY Sundays!"

------------------------------

17x NBA Champions

  

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Nodima
Member since Jul 30th 2008
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Mon Feb-20-23 04:41 AM

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71. "This was a wild departure!"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

First time I'm truly jealous of "non-book readers" because a lot of this episode had this weird air of subverting expectations for those who'd played the game...and kind of softening the blows of the story in the process.


Don't get me wrong, really good episode of TV, but...


Granting that they had to bypass a lot of video game shit, namely that during the tour of the town while Tommy and Maria are explaining to Joel how the dam gives their town electricity a bunch of raiders attack, beforehand Joel asks Tommy to take Ellie the rest of the way to the Fireflies not because he's feeling inadequate and slow but because he deeply wants to get away from Ellie before he fully lets his guard down around her. Tommy declines, not because he's got a kid on the way but more simply because life is just pretty peaceful in Jackson and he doesn't want to give that up. In the moment, you can feel that Joel might just leave Ellie in Jackson anyway to head back east.


Joel defending their settlement makes Tommy feel like he owes Joel, Ellie overhears their conversation and steals Shimmer (the horse) so Joel chases after her. I've had to explain to some friends that don't play games that I truly believe Troy Baker and Ashley Johnson could've been nominated for Oscars for their performances back then, and I mean...just listen to this scene compared to their confrontation in this episode:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=51Xs6sZGq3o

Even forgetting everything I said before that link, the way Ellie calls Joel out on his bullshit in this scene compared to how they did it on the show...I can't fully explain why, but to this day anytime I see Sara's death at the start of the game or this argument between Ellie and Joel I feel a weight in my chest, and the show's not going there.

I think the show's version of getting to that point, with Joel getting all torn up about it rather than, as an earlier episode so aptly put it, treating her as cargo to be dumped onto someone who knows the region better, and piling the Sara flashbacks on top of everything is so damn heavy handed compared to the game.


I'll admit that I was always really curious about this specific section of the adaptation because playing the game back in 2013, all the moments this episode covers were what convinced me no matter how tried and true the basic plot details were, I was seeing something special.


Again, if I forget all that, I really enjoyed this episode. But it's a...odd feeling to 100% think that all of these events paled in comparison to the original portrayals of them.





~~~~~~~~~
"This is the streets, and I am the trap." � Jay Bilas
http://www.popmatters.com/pm/archive/contributor/517
Hip Hop Handbook: http://tinyurl.com/ll4kzz

  

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KnowOne
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Mon Feb-20-23 09:02 AM

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72. "I initially disliked this change here but....."
In response to Reply # 71


  

          

>Joel asks
>Tommy to take Ellie the rest of the way to the Fireflies not
>because he's feeling inadequate and slow but because he deeply
>wants to get away from Ellie before he fully lets his guard
>down around her. Tommy declines, not because he's got a kid on
>the way but more simply because life is just pretty peaceful
>in Jackson and he doesn't want to give that up. In the moment,
>you can feel that Joel might just leave Ellie in Jackson
>anyway to head back east.
>

I feel like for the show they did this to really pull viewers in to like and care for Joel as a now "caring and sympathetic" character, in order to make the finale all the more shocking & gutting.

_________________________________________
"Too weird to live.... too rare to die..."

IG: KnowOne215 | PS+ ID: KnowOne215

  

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Ryan M
Member since Oct 21st 2002
43735 posts
Tue Feb-21-23 03:04 PM

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73. "I know nothing about the source material but"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

Are they just gonna fucking keep doing this to us or...

------------------------------

17x NBA Champions

  

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KnowOne
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74. "yes..."
In response to Reply # 73


  

          

yes they are

_________________________________________
"Too weird to live.... too rare to die..."

IG: KnowOne215 | PS+ ID: KnowOne215

  

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calij81
Member since Jan 17th 2007
13928 posts
Tue Feb-21-23 03:45 PM

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75. "I doubt Joel dies since this has been renewed for season 2 "
In response to Reply # 73


          

That being said, knowing what happens in TLoU 2, I would prefer this for Joel. I didn’t much care for TLoU 2 and how it ended.

  

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rdhull
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78. "last of us? more like This Is Us"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

when it was good, before it became rote

  

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calij81
Member since Jan 17th 2007
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Mon Feb-27-23 01:43 PM

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80. "Flashback, filler episode"
In response to Reply # 0


          

It was fun to see a day out at a post apocalyptic mall.

  

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Hitokiri
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81. "Not a filler. It's a part of the actual game."
In response to Reply # 80


  

          

--

"You can't beat white people. You can only knock them out."

  

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Nopayne
Member since Jan 03rd 2003
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Tue Feb-28-23 12:08 PM

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82. "Games have filler too."
In response to Reply # 81


  

          

---
Love,
Nopayne

  

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grey
Member since Apr 04th 2003
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Wed Mar-01-23 12:02 AM

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85. "hm touché "
In response to Reply # 82


          

  

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calij81
Member since Jan 17th 2007
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Tue Feb-28-23 01:45 PM

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83. "I know that it’s part of the game but it still felt like a filler epis..."
In response to Reply # 81


          

It didn’t really move the story forward. We know Ellie was bit and survived, we get to see it in a flashback. We know Ellie has lost everyone she has ever cared about, we see it in this flashback.

This episode didn’t really move the story along or reveal anything we didn’t already know.

  

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rdhull
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84. "RE: I know that it’s part of the game but it still felt like a filler ..."
In response to Reply # 83


  

          

>It didn’t really move the story forward. We know Ellie was
>bit and survived, we get to see it in a flashback. We know
>Ellie has lost everyone she has ever cared about, we see it in
>this flashback.
>
>This episode didn’t really move the story along or reveal
>anything we didn’t already know.

Geezus

  

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Nodima
Member since Jul 30th 2008
15297 posts
Wed Mar-01-23 02:45 AM

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86. "Is "moving the story forward" a new thing in the streaming era?"
In response to Reply # 83


  

          

I can't say I've ever really cared whether or not a story moved forward, I just want character motivations to make sense, good cinematography and good performances. The story is always a bonus.


I didn't think this was the greatest episode when compared to how it was done in the game - in particular, I thought actually powering on the arcade and playing some games of Mortal Kombat was lame compared to how the game handled the entire mall section, where the power stayed off and Ellie/Riley were playing make believe in the Halloween store and even the arcade, it was just more clever - but even if I hadn't played the game I couldn't care less about whether this moved the plot forward.


The point was to establish - and I think is even more vital for a show that's spent more time with Joel and Ellie talking to other people than with each other - why Ellie wouldn't want to leave Joel besides the pure pragmatism that he's a big adult and she's a little kid. She's already left somebody behind and the only reason she was able to do so was her immunity. It haunts her, she's not going to do it again, and Joel is about to die because of her immunity as well.


Again, I think the show actually didn't portray that as well as the game did (her adventure with Riley is juxtaposed against her scouring another mall for antibiotics, which reminds her of Riley to begin with) and that's fair play for basic story structure but the episode wasn't "filler".

~~~~~~~~~
"This is the streets, and I am the trap." � Jay Bilas
http://www.popmatters.com/pm/archive/contributor/517
Hip Hop Handbook: http://tinyurl.com/ll4kzz

  

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Sofian_Hadi
Member since Jan 03rd 2003
5626 posts
Wed Mar-01-23 11:01 AM

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88. "This love experience is a MASSIVE part of her backstory. "
In response to Reply # 83


          

I dont see how anyone can see this as a filler episode. She met the love of her life, thought they were going to die together in some romantic sacrificial way, and ended up living. That explains alot about her and how she responds to the world.

---------------------------------------

"The world is before you and you need not take it or leave it as it was when you came in." - James Baldwin

  

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grey
Member since Apr 04th 2003
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Wed Mar-01-23 06:06 PM

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89. "didnt get any if that from the ep"
In response to Reply # 88


          

dont know much about the game but if their relationship is as deep as youre saying it wasnt translated very well.

ep played it like they were just close friends who were kinda awkwardly coming of age in their sexuality. didnt get that they were each others’ soulmates much less that relationship shaping her worldview.

  

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Lach
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87. "Can we get a little bit more of the infected is my only gripe"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

We're going episodes barely seeing any. I remember there being a lot more they were running from in the Left Behind DLC.

  

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rdhull
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Wed Mar-08-23 05:34 PM

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96. "hands insde, weve reached Sopranos nobody got capped territory"
In response to Reply # 87


  

          

>We're going episodes barely seeing any. I remember there
>being a lot more they were running from in the Left Behind
>DLC.

  

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will_5198
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90. "episode 8 should have been stretched over two episodes"
In response to Reply # 0


          

entertaining, but too much going on for 50 minutes

--------

  

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calij81
Member since Jan 17th 2007
13928 posts
Mon Mar-06-23 02:59 AM

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91. "Agreed. I thought it was really good "
In response to Reply # 90


          

I wish they would have made that episode into two episodes.

  

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Hitokiri
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92. "Yeah I would agree with that"
In response to Reply # 90


  

          

This was a lot for one episode. Not that I didn't enjoy it, lots of fan service... and... there were a few more things they left out that would have filled things out nicely and allowed them to slow it down a little bit.

--

"You can't beat white people. You can only knock them out."

  

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JFrost1117
Member since Aug 12th 2005
23876 posts
Mon Mar-06-23 08:29 PM

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93. "Religious folks that be on bullshit…"
In response to Reply # 90


  

          

Are for sure gonna call you a cunt at some point.

____________
Twitter & IG: @rulerofmyself
SC: rulerofmyself17

Yes! She's on the drugs. (c) BoHagon

  

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rdhull
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107. "yall would complain it didnt need 2 lol"
In response to Reply # 90


  

          

>entertaining, but too much going on for 50 minutes

  

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Nodima
Member since Jul 30th 2008
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Wed Mar-08-23 02:57 AM

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94. "could have plenty of gamer notes for this one, BUT"
In response to Reply # 0
Wed Mar-08-23 03:07 AM by Nodima

  

          

Instead I just want to shout out one of the most terrifyingly realistic death scenes I think I've ever seen, to the point dude's face looks more and more skeletal as he dies... (edit: wanted to add outside of modern Asian combat cinema, where the deaths are so gruesome they do the "very badly burned" dance from Austin Powers of terrible to hilarious to boring to weird to extremely hilarious in five seconds or less)


...And shortly after, a scene I figured would've been the hardest to make work on the show considering we've seen so much less of Joel's violence, translated so viscerally.


I've also felt kind of weird about how satisfying it's been to read/hear TV people say that interrogation felt original because...any time I feel a slight twinge of knee pain since 2013, I admit I think back to that knife embedded in guy's knee and remind myself "it could always be worse"


~~~~~~~~~
"This is the streets, and I am the trap." � Jay Bilas
http://www.popmatters.com/pm/archive/contributor/517
Hip Hop Handbook: http://tinyurl.com/ll4kzz

  

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Sofian_Hadi
Member since Jan 03rd 2003
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95. "*I'll pop your knee cap off* is some gangsta sh*t"
In response to Reply # 94


          

---------------------------------------

"The world is before you and you need not take it or leave it as it was when you came in." - James Baldwin

  

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Nodima
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Fri Mar-10-23 04:51 PM

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98. "coming back to this"
In response to Reply # 94
Fri Mar-10-23 04:52 PM by Nodima

  

          

The One Big Thing™ I was curious to see how they'd adapt that was mostly (but not totally) absent was how the game cuts from Joel fighting towards Ellie with her fighting for her freedom in general. It really calcified the validity of some criticism I've seen of this show that Joel and Ellie's relationship has been backgrounded for the sake of "a TV show", or even more generally making this season 9 episodes instead of 10, or 12, or 22.


In the game it's a really powerful contrast, IMO, of how capable a Big Guy like Joel is compared to a Tiny Girl like Ellie, but also emphasizes my favorite read of why Naughty Dog games hit so hard which is that they ask you to play a role, like Nicole Kidman as Hamlet's mother (I don't know why this came to mind first, obviously if you're Hamlet you fuck a Nicole Kidman lookin' mom), rather than just play a game. They can convince you to think like their characters rather than a kid holding a controller considering a game's rules.


I get handwaving most of that but I really felt it in this episode. Any time I've replayed this game I've turned it down to the easiest possible difficulty during this section because it's so damn stressful. The really significant moment is when the humanity of the shelter campfire draws the infected and you fight alongside David until his homies arrive. It draws you into that character further right before he pulls the "everything happens for a reason" rug...and while I get that that means more special effects, makeup, blocking, etc. for the show it was strange to me to not have that sort of life or death bonding moment for Ellie and David, doubly so because we really don't get any other totems pointing to why he sees her as such a capable child bride to help lead his "flock".


If I haven't said it before, I'm happy that this show seems to be connecting with tangential audiences the way it ought to, but at this point I'm pretty convinced this is a good, sometimes pretty good, but not great show and that leaves me with a distinctly sour aftertaste.

~~~~~~~~~
"This is the streets, and I am the trap." � Jay Bilas
http://www.popmatters.com/pm/archive/contributor/517
Hip Hop Handbook: http://tinyurl.com/ll4kzz

  

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rdhull
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Thu Mar-09-23 04:33 PM

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97. "geezus that was amazing..Ellie is a trip"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

  

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Nodima
Member since Jul 30th 2008
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Mon Mar-13-23 01:16 AM

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99. "I firmly believe this should've had a normal 10-12 episode run."
In response to Reply # 0
Mon Mar-13-23 01:19 AM by Nodima

  

          

I'd place this season in the hall of very good, but I wonder how much of that is me bringing my own knowledge of the story to it. I'm excited to see the reactions from the non-gamers over the week.


For what it's worth, I won't be surprised if the ambiguity of the game's ending isn't nearly as divisive for show watchers. Both because the show had far less time for Joel and Ellie's relationship to develop (which, in retrospect, is pretty surprising) but also I've realized that simply watching real people play these roles instead of computer images voiced by humans makes it far easier to absolutely want them to win.


When playing the game, obviously you want to "win", so the hospital rampage feels right in the moment. It's only after, during the final hike to Jackson, that you start self-interrogating whether it felt good to want that, considering the circumstances and ramifications.


The show doesn't really allow for that. You just want Pedro Pascal to be happy.


Food for thought, but not like the source material.


Edit: At the danger of making this post way too long and skimmable, I strongly related to this take from Polygon's aftershow roundtable:


My interpretation of the game was always more nuanced than just “this is about love.” Like, yes, it is about love, but there are all sorts of shades within that — how love can be incredibly selfish, how love can be about what a person gives you rather than who they are — that I think the game is better at portraying. You spend so much time with Joel in the game, because you are him, and there is a selfishness to being the protagonist of a video game. The only goals that matter are yours; the only person who needs this loot is you; your immediate world is ultimately the world you care most about.


I think that’s why the original game is so highly regarded. If you buy into it, like I did, it’s so easy to justify anything Joel does until it’s way too late, and then you’re left to think about what that all means after the fact. Do you really care about all those nameless people around the world getting a cure that might not even work, or do you care about Ellie, who you’ve been through everything with? Is it bad that you care more about Ellie? You did play as her, after all. But then you think about all the notes you’ve found, and how all of those people were also individuals who loved someone, and about Henry and Sam and Bill and Tess, and on and on, and it’s a whole Thing.


I’m not anti-adaptation by any means, but I think this is one of those cases where it was adapted too closely, and the storytelling method didn’t translate well between mediums. The fact is that this ending, as it’s told, works better as a game, and without adjusting the ending to fit the show’s own changes to the game’s storytelling, it feels much emptier. It doesn’t have the same impact on an outsider, viewing this man doing these horrible things rather than embodying him and feeling his selfishness in the specific way the game can enable. We just didn’t get the full weight of that in the way this story was told, and in the time allotted to it.


~~~~~~~~~
"This is the streets, and I am the trap." � Jay Bilas
http://www.popmatters.com/pm/archive/contributor/517
Hip Hop Handbook: http://tinyurl.com/ll4kzz

  

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will_5198
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Mon Mar-13-23 11:18 PM

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100. "the game really ended like that? Naughty Dog was on one"
In response to Reply # 99


          

from a show-only person, an extra 2-3 episodes were definitely needed (especially since one of the nine was a flashback that only dealt with Ellie).

and for me, the ending was abrupt and lacking the punch that apparently most gamers felt. Joel's pragmatism in the show is one of his most interesting qualities -- a lot of these post-apocalyptic anti-heroes only go halfway, putting bad guys in sleeper holds and saving all the women and children along the way. but Joel had a mission, and his devotion to Ellie could be explained by that mission.

just when their relationship started to anchor, he makes a (to me) non-pragmatic decision and I didn't feel his connection with Ellie was worth basically sacrificing the world for.

--------

  

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Nodima
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Tue Mar-14-23 09:29 AM

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102. "RE: the game really ended like that? Naughty Dog was on one"
In response to Reply # 100


  

          

I mean, if you’re playing it right, Joel is loaded up with a flamethrower, baseball bat with scissors taped to it and pipe bombs loaded with nails during that segment. You’re a total monster lol.


~~~~~~~~~
"This is the streets, and I am the trap." � Jay Bilas
http://www.popmatters.com/pm/archive/contributor/517
Hip Hop Handbook: http://tinyurl.com/ll4kzz

  

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KnowOne
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Tue Mar-14-23 09:36 AM

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103. "^THIS^... for most people that played the game those doctors & nurses..."
In response to Reply # 102


  

          

got it a LOT worse LOL

_________________________________________
"Too weird to live.... too rare to die..."

IG: KnowOne215 | PS+ ID: KnowOne215

  

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calij81
Member since Jan 17th 2007
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Tue Mar-14-23 11:31 AM

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104. "I agree with this. I feel like the show started strong and faded down "
In response to Reply # 100


          

the stretch with the last 3 episodes and culminated with a thud of an ending. I will probably watch season 2 but I’m not excited for it.

  

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Nodima
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Tue Mar-14-23 11:48 AM

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105. "It kinda dumped a whole lot of ideas on the floor like Anna did Ellie"
In response to Reply # 104
Tue Mar-14-23 11:50 AM by Nodima

  

          

I've got some more thoughts on why but I don't want to flood this thread with all the things they clearly struggled to bring over from the game if this thread is already pretty much done.


Awesome production value, great performances, mostly good dialogue...but the story was kind of a mess without the interactive bits, and I'm not sure I'm surprised. I'm not sure I'm disappointed, either. Clearly most regular people loved this show and it seems like a lot of players did as well (my sister thinks it's one of the best shows ever made, apparently) and that's great!


But how they approach the next two seasons is probably more interesting to me from a sort of academic perspective than entertainment because I don't see how they get any better at the stuff they flubbed next time around.


Though it's also possible the second game is miraculously easier to translate to film because it's, uh, IDEA-LADEN to say the least.


~~~~~~~~~
"This is the streets, and I am the trap." � Jay Bilas
http://www.popmatters.com/pm/archive/contributor/517
Hip Hop Handbook: http://tinyurl.com/ll4kzz

  

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Nopayne
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Wed Mar-15-23 06:40 PM

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106. "They sent so much time on backstories and flashbacks"
In response to Reply # 104


  

          

It would have been more satisfying to me to focus more on Joel and Ellie forming their bond over time.

Also, give us a few more zombies. It doesn't need to be like TWD where they would come up with contrived scenarios to include them every week but I would like a bit more.

---
Love,
Nopayne

  

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Reeq
Member since Mar 11th 2013
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Tue Mar-14-23 12:22 AM

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101. "as someone who didnt play the game i dont get the hype with the show."
In response to Reply # 0


          

the ratings on the various movie sites are high and i havent seen much negative public reaction.

the season was pretty boring to me tho and that ending felt like a letdown.

  

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khn
Member since Jan 20th 2015
682 posts
Fri Mar-17-23 12:14 PM

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108. "Played the game for the 1st time and watched the show in sync. Show >>>"
In response to Reply # 0


          

Generally I thought the show gave us far richer versions of most of the side characters/plots: Tess, Bill, Sam, etc. Marlene would be a notable exception, however, and something analogous to the tape recordings in the game's hospital sequence would probably make her fate hit a little harder. And I definitely agree that Jackson Hole Cannibals probably should've been 2 eps.

Ending is what it is - not a fan, but still feel like it needed to be adapted exactly as it was in the game.

All in all this is easily the GOAT video game adaption - excellent craftsmanship, faithful to the story overall, and generally improved on the original when it deviated from the source material.

But I kinda dgaf going forward.

  

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Nodima
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Sun Mar-19-23 04:13 PM

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111. "Interesting!"
In response to Reply # 108


  

          

Because you mentioned the broadening of the side characters as the main improvement, I'd be curious to hear why or why not playing as Joel - and eventually Ellie - had less of an impact on you than seeing those other characters fleshed out.


~~~~~~~~~
"This is the streets, and I am the trap." � Jay Bilas
http://www.popmatters.com/pm/archive/contributor/517
Hip Hop Handbook: http://tinyurl.com/ll4kzz

  

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khn
Member since Jan 20th 2015
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Mon Mar-20-23 01:57 PM

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114. "Higher highs."
In response to Reply # 111


          

(If you'll pardon the expression)

Obviously I came to the game 10 years later and am saying what I'm saying with that context in mind. And as a lifelong gamer I can say it rightly has its place in the pantheon - my fault for sleeping so long. Also, I would definitely say that the sequence you're touching on is the strongest part of the game (incl. the giraffe bit, which hit way harder in the game, for sure - sublime moment that didn't really translate the same in the show).

But up to that point, the game tended to drag quite a bit after getting out of the QZ. Whereas the high parts of the show largely happened in those spaces - again referring to Frank and/or Henry & Sam. I found the main narrative in both to be largely congruent, within reason, as far as where it really worked and really didn't.

  

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soulfunk
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Mon Mar-20-23 07:45 AM

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112. "Binged this over the weekend. Loved it."
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

I hadn't played the game at all so I had no expectations. I do agree with some who said this should have been a bit longer, maybe 11-12 episodes just to give us a bit more time and development of the Joel and Ellie relationship. The back half of the season seemed really light on seeing infected. Maybe if there was more time they could have fought more clickers and another bloater, and had more experiences saving each others lives. Again I haven't played the game so I don't know if any story points were left out, but I assume that there were fights against the infected pretty much the entire game outside of safe houses.

The other thing that might have done would be making it that much more important to find a cure. Maybe more examples of characters getting bit and turning when a vaccine would have saved them. That would have given more impact to Ellies resolve to keep going when she and Joel had that conversation where he tried to get her to turn back.

But again, beyond that I loved this show, and loved where how it ended with the lie along with Ellie's "okay" which could have meant "okay I know you're lying, I'll choose to believe that lie out of the love I have for you" or "okay I know you're lying, and because of that I can't trust you going forward". I think Joel KNOWS she knows he's lying too.

  

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