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Subject: "Oppenheimer (Christopher Nolan, 2023)" Previous topic | Next topic
bwood
Member since Apr 03rd 2006
8614 posts
Thu Jul-21-22 05:06 AM

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"Oppenheimer (Christopher Nolan, 2023)"


          

Teaser trailer in front of Nope.

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America from 9:00 on: https://youtu.be/GUwLCQU10KQ

  

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Topic Outline
Subject Author Message Date ID
First poster. Here we go...
Jul 21st 2022
1
I don't know if I've ever been quite so excited about a movie.
Jul 21st 2022
2
The opening paragraph of Rhodes's book...
Jul 21st 2022
3
Thanks for this b.
Jul 22nd 2022
4
Yeah, that I couldn't tell you, other than it's Nolan.
Jul 23rd 2022
10
saw the trailer just now, then read what u wrote. Can't wait
Dec 19th 2022
12
      Lol I've been regretting the mass of text that I wrote there.
Dec 19th 2022
13
Beam me up Daddy.
Jul 23rd 2022
5
      RE: Beam me up Daddy.
Jul 23rd 2022
6
           Don’t try to understand it. Feel it.
Jul 23rd 2022
7
                RE: Don’t try to understand it. Feel it.
Jul 23rd 2022
8
The teaser for this W-I-L-D
Jul 23rd 2022
9
trailer.
Dec 19th 2022
11
Early word is this is Nolan's best film.
Jul 11th 2023
14
Holy Sonnet XIV, John Donne
Jul 11th 2023
15
Lol I really need to stop drunk posting about Oppenheimer.
Jul 12th 2023
16
      No in a perfect world this is perfect
Jul 13th 2023
17
           It sounds like it is a relatively conventional biopic in most ways.
Jul 13th 2023
21
First five minutes of the movie
Jul 13th 2023
18
RE: First five minutes of the movie
Jul 13th 2023
19
Looks more like a 5-minute trailer than the first 5 minutes of the movie...
Jul 13th 2023
20
List of IMAX 70mm locations
Jul 16th 2023
22
70mm locations
Jul 16th 2023
23
      IMAX dual laser
Jul 16th 2023
24
           Updated after seeing the movie
Jul 20th 2023
29
Format guide to help you choose
Jul 16th 2023
25
This is dense.
Jul 18th 2023
26
i'm sure was he was great but how was Cillian?
Jul 19th 2023
27
      You won't be disappointed by his performance
Jul 19th 2023
28
      has to be one of, if not his best (Cillian)
Aug 06th 2023
59
Outstanding. Nolan's best, one of the best of the year, etc.
Jul 21st 2023
30
the score......so good
Jul 22nd 2023
32
Nolan's best. Incredible
Jul 22nd 2023
31
Next day thoughts.
Jul 22nd 2023
33
Whoa
Jul 23rd 2023
35
Lol, yeah.
Jul 23rd 2023
36
Great post
Aug 02nd 2023
49
thanks
Aug 06th 2023
60
thank you for every word of that. I learned so much.
Sep 03rd 2023
61
Ahh! Color/BW was about perspective (Strauss vs Oppenheimer)
Jul 22nd 2023
34
well damn, now i gotta see it again.
Sep 03rd 2023
62
S aw it a second time. Again in IMAX 70mm.
Jul 23rd 2023
37
This was very good. Great to see in 70mm.
Jul 24th 2023
38
A little too much Nolan-ese in the dialogue, but THAT sequence
Jul 25th 2023
39
RE: A little too much Nolan-ese in the dialogue, but THAT sequence
Jul 28th 2023
40
Really good
Jul 31st 2023
41
Spoilers
Jul 31st 2023
42
      Agreed.
Jul 31st 2023
43
      I figured I would get back a bit after he got started
Jul 31st 2023
44
      Yea, the way the audience for that speech was louder than the bomb
Aug 02nd 2023
50
Scathing review from Richard Brody in The New Yorker
Jul 31st 2023
45
I 100% agree with this take
Aug 01st 2023
46
I thought it was riveting
Aug 01st 2023
47
      I loved learning that James Remar had a huge hand in that target meet
Aug 02nd 2023
51
      RE: I loved learning that James Remar had a huge hand in that target mee...
Aug 03rd 2023
55
      interestingly, what struck me was...
Sep 03rd 2023
63
geezus. Its from Nolan, they wanted Ken Burns
Aug 01st 2023
Well I think the complaint is that it's too much like Ken Burns.
Aug 02nd 2023
53
      Gerwig managed to give a soul to a hyper-commercial toy,
Aug 02nd 2023
54
geezus. Its from Nolan, they wanted Ken Burns
Aug 01st 2023
48
He *really* hits on why I do think this film is worth the hype
Aug 02nd 2023
52
      RE: He *really* hits on why I do think this film is worth the hype
Aug 04th 2023
56
           .
Aug 04th 2023
57
                RE: .
Aug 05th 2023
58
                actualy, you didn't get the point.
Sep 03rd 2023
64
3 things
Sep 04th 2023
65
I agree with you!
Sep 04th 2023
66
Returning to IMAX 70mm January 12th
Jan 06th 2024
67
This would make a great IMAX double feature with TENET.
Feb 26th 2024
68
It makes me think about There Will Be Blood frequently as well
Mar 07th 2024
69
Best Picture, Director, Actor, Supporting Actor, Editing, Score...
Mar 10th 2024
70
The editing win right after Godzillas win was......timely
Mar 11th 2024
71
Night Dogg lost.
Mar 12th 2024
72
      Was just thinking...
Mar 13th 2024
73
           if the Manhattan Project harnessed the destructive power of MNight bombs
Mar 14th 2024
74
                RE: if the Manhattan Project harnessed the destructive power of MNight b...
Mar 15th 2024
75

bwood
Member since Apr 03rd 2006
8614 posts
Thu Jul-21-22 07:04 AM

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1. "First poster. Here we go..."
In response to Reply # 0


          

https://twitter.com/OppenheimerFilm/status/1550080396368482304?t=lONnQ3EmxSXDcvrJZ9QlhQ&s=09

------------------------------------------
America from 9:00 on: https://youtu.be/GUwLCQU10KQ

  

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stravinskian
Member since Feb 24th 2003
12698 posts
Thu Jul-21-22 12:28 PM

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2. "I don't know if I've ever been quite so excited about a movie."
In response to Reply # 0
Thu Jul-21-22 12:34 PM by stravinskian

          

I'm shocked that it took so long for someone to make it, but not surprised at all that Christopher Nolan is the one to do it.

Me personally, I'll have to apologize in advance and promise to try not to nerd up the discussion in this thread too much with the history and the physics of what they discovered. I'm sure the actual physics in the movie will be much less than I would have liked. But there's so much drama, even without the explicit calculation of cross sections, that I know it'll be a spectacle long before the first mushroom cloud we see.

This story is the only *real* example I can think of for one of the oldest tropes in drama: regular people, via enormous skill and even greater luck, doing something superhuman and changing the nature of humanity. They found a tiny door in the universe that changed forever, and likely for the last time, what humans will ever be capable of.

Paraphrasing Stanislaw Ulam (who will almost certainly be a significant character in this): the entire direction of international events, the ultimate meaning of war, and the nature of human existence into the indefinite future, would be completely altered if the results of a few mathematical calculations had differed by about five percent.

If we're able to survive climate change and live as a society into the 22nd century, more than anything it will be because of the discoveries made here. And if all of humanity is wiped out and the world is made completely uninhabitable during our lifetime, it will most likely be because of the discoveries made here. The story *since* Oppenheimer is the story of humanity trying to figure out if it can harness its genius or whether it'll be destroyed by it. During my lifetime we've all gotten complacent, but as recent events have reminded us, it only takes one mistake for everything to come crashing down.

I hope the movie isn't entirely about Oppenheimer, because ultimately he was just one of the ten or so most important people in the story. Though he was the first one to really understand all of it, for better and for worse, and at a human level as well as a technical level.

If anyone wants to read up before the movie comes along, I assume the main source material was the biography by Bird and Sherwin, which I'm told is great but I haven't gotten around to reading it yet. (In fact according to IMDB, Bird and Sherwin are listed as writers on the script, along with Nolan. This bodes well.)

The real source that everyone needs to read if they want to know more about the true significance of this story is Richard Rhodes's masterpiece of history writing, "The Making of the Atomic Bomb." I've been rereading it myself and I've never seen a story so profound. You don't have to know any physics to read it, though being interested in a few technical details would really help especially with the first half of the book, which covers the initial discoveries of quantum theory, nuclear structure, radioactive isotopes, leading to the strange mysterious isotope of Uranium, U-235, which lies right at the boundary between stability and instability and ultimately makes everything else in the story possible. Along the way in that first half of the book he intersperses telling world events. The chapter on the first world war is harrowing, and he skillfully draws parallels (among other things) between the adoption of gas warfare in the first world war and nuclear weapons in the second. The story of the rise of fascism in Europe is chilling, especially as one parallel after another seems to pop up in modern-day news reports on at least a monthly basis. (Rhodes wrote the book in the '80's, and probably never realized just how contemporary it would eventually seem.)

Most of what's in Rhodes's book won't be in Nolan's movie, like how Fermi had to use the acceptance of his Nobel prize as a ruse for him and his Jewish wife to escape Italy just before another wave of anti-Jewish laws would have sent her to prison or worse; or how they needed conducting metals to build solenoids for isotope separation but couldn't get any copper in the middle of the war, so they literally went to Fort Knox and borrowed over 300 million dollars worth of silver to make solenoids, and returned it all, down to the last ounce, once the war was over; or how Leo Szilard talked his friend Einstein into signing the fateful letter to Roosevelt that eventually led to the beginning of the Manhattan project (Einstein didn't actually write the letter, because he didn't feel he knew enough about nuclear physics, but he knew Szilard well enough, and knew enough about the importance of the research to attach his name to it anyway despite his passionate and life-long stance as a pacifist). If I had any pull at all in Hollywood, I'd be banging on every studio's door saying they needed to make a 20-episode series out of this story.

There's also an extraordinary opera, "Doctor Atomic," by John Adams, which pulls its libretto almost entirely from historical documents. If you're interested in this kind of thing, find a full performance. I doubt there are any stagings coming up before the film opens but it's worth your while if you can find one. If not, find the video or audio recording and listen to it start to finish, not in bits and pieces. If you're paying attention, it'll have a big effect on you. I saw the premiere staging in San Francisco sometime around 2005, and a more recent staging by the Santa Fe opera a few years ago. It's a visceral, punishing reenactment of the exhaustion, fear, and overall constant inescapable suffocating tension in the weeks and days before the Trinity test.

As for the production, all I know is that Cillian Murphy looks a hell of a lot like Oppie, so well-done there. I can definitely imagine Matt Damon playing general Groves, though I hope they had him put on some weight, as his main bit of comedy was annoyance at the fact that he was so much fatter than the chain-smoking physicists buzzing all around him.

To whatever extent he gets into the science, I imagine that'll all be presented in a really solid way. Bird and Sherwin know what they're talking about, and Nolan has good connections, through the production of Interstellar, with a bunch of great physicists who know important it is to get a story like this right.

  

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stravinskian
Member since Feb 24th 2003
12698 posts
Thu Jul-21-22 01:12 PM

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3. "The opening paragraph of Rhodes's book..."
In response to Reply # 2


          


is probably representative of the mixture of cold contemplation and unfathomable violence that this story provides. It's rare that we can document so precisely the moment when a historically important idea arises, but in the case of nuclear fission (both controlled, for energy, and uncontrolled, for war), the simple key idea (the slow-neutron chain reaction) arrived for a single person at a very specific moment (in the middle of an extremely inconvenient historical era!). It's one of my favorite paragraphs, though I'm admittedly a sucker for this kind of melodramatic realism.

"In London, where Southampton Row passes Russell Square, across from the British Museum in Bloomsbury, Leo Szilard waited irritably one gray Depression morning for the stoplight to change. A trace of rain had fallen during the night; Tuesday, September 12, 1933, dawned cool, humid, and dull. Drizzling rain would begin again in early afternoon. When Szilard told the story later he never mentioned his destination that morning. He may have had none; he often walked to think. In any case another destination intervened. The stoplight changed to green. Szilard stepped off the curb. As he crossed the street time cracked open before him and he saw a way to the future, death into the world and all our woe, the shape of things to come."

  

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bwood
Member since Apr 03rd 2006
8614 posts
Fri Jul-22-22 04:05 PM

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4. "Thanks for this b."
In response to Reply # 3


          

Very enlightening. Still skeptical about why this needs to have a $100 million dollar budget and needs to be shot on IMAX film.

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America from 9:00 on: https://youtu.be/GUwLCQU10KQ

  

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stravinskian
Member since Feb 24th 2003
12698 posts
Sat Jul-23-22 07:06 PM

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10. "Yeah, that I couldn't tell you, other than it's Nolan. "
In response to Reply # 4


          

The obvious big-dollar line-item would be the mushroom cloud budget. They will most definitely include a reenactment of the Trinity test, and likely the attacks on Hiroshima and Nagasaki (and possibly the non-nuclear attack on Tokyo). These will be a different variety of nuclear explosion than we've seen in movies before, since the Trinity test really was a controlled experiment, analyzed in real time a thousand different ways. Knowing Nolan, he was probably disappointed that he couldn't arrange filming access to a real nuclear test, but I guess even Universal can't buy off the IAEA. At any rate, it'll take some spectacular effects work for them to do justice to nuclear explosions.

But other than that, it's a pretty standard-issue war-era historical drama, as far as filming logistics go. From friends at Los Alamos, I do know that they've done a great deal of on-location filming there and probably a few other places. Los Alamos is a bustling little town nowadays, and in the Manhattan Project days it was extremely remote. So it probably wasn't easy to revert it to something historically convincing.

It sounds like they have a huge cast, which makes sense given the huge variety of people who played important roles in this story. So that's probably a part of it.

It occurs to me that they might be covering a long span of time, as well. Oppenheimer had entanglements with progressive politics and (at times) the Communist party, going all the way back to his grad school days. And late in his life these entanglements came back to him in very ugly ways (there's even a ready-made villain, but I'll save the spoiler). Personally I think that story, while profound and fascinating in itself, is a side-story compared to the Manhattan Project, but it's easy to get across dramatically, so I bet they'll put some effort into covering it.

  

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dillinjah
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Mon Dec-19-22 02:56 PM

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12. "saw the trailer just now, then read what u wrote. Can't wait"
In response to Reply # 3


          

  

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stravinskian
Member since Feb 24th 2003
12698 posts
Mon Dec-19-22 04:48 PM

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13. "Lol I've been regretting the mass of text that I wrote there."
In response to Reply # 12
Mon Dec-19-22 05:04 PM by stravinskian

          

But I'm glad if it helped you get into it. I'm not sure if I was just drunk on the original trailer or if I had other chemical aids at the time.

But yeah, it's a story that I find to be incredibly important, but also incredibly dramatic.

In particular, this new trailer makes clear that they're gonna delve into Oppenheimer's emotional state at the time of the Trinity test (the first ever explosion of a man-made nuclear bomb, which they've now confirmed will be recreated non-digitally for the movie -- using chemical explosions, of course, so I hope they had some damn good science advisors).

Oppenheimer was barely holding it together at that point. Everyone was exhausted, working like 20 hour days. Everyone knew by then that they were putting all this effort into building an unfathomable weapon that they suddenly weren't sure they should even be building anymore. The war against Hitler was over, and the war against Japan just seemed like a matter of time.

But events kept conspiring in such a way that they had to push through. The central motivator was simply that they'd discovered that it was *possible* to make nuclear weapons. So simply as a matter of strategy, Oppenheimer felt that they needed to do it first. The key Oppenheimer quote that opens up the story is this: "It is a profound and necessary truth that the deep things in science are not found because they are useful; they are found because it was possible to find them."

There's a reason Oppenheimer famously quoted that other famous line from the Bhagivad-Gita about Hindu gods who create worlds by first destroying them ("Now I am become Death, destroyer of worlds"). There's a reason the first test was code-named Trinity, after a religious poem by John Donne (Batter my heart, three person'd God). Oppenheimer was realizing that the whole real-world effort had the scale and substance of a religious myth. Ultimately they needed to make the bomb because it was possible. And it was possible because of a decision by a higher power -- the laws of physics. The science that he'd devoted his life to had become a deity that was frivolously toying with him and risking the survival of all of humanity.


Shit, I've done it again. Suffice it to say, I'm excited about the movie too.

  

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Nodima
Member since Jul 30th 2008
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Sat Jul-23-22 03:00 AM

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5. "Beam me up Daddy."
In response to Reply # 2
Sat Jul-23-22 03:04 AM by Nodima

  

          

I'm clearly far less knowledgeable in the hows and whys of this but I think you nailed why I'm, as a relative layman, pretty excited for this.


If everything goes right, this is a return to the Following/Memento/Prestige era of Nolan married to everything he's learned (or mistakes he can recognize he made) from Interstellar and Dunkirk.


It's an incredible gamble both for him and the studio and I can't wait to see what happens, because it really does feel like he's been building towards an idea, let alone story, like this from the beginning.


I'm the guy that somehow saw Following before I saw Memento. And I see this one quote from his obvious director surrogate, protagonist Alex Cobb (even that surname, y'know?), in everything he's done since: "You take it away to show them what they had."


I'm so jazzed for this and I think Nolan has been on a pretty explicit downhill jam since Dark Knight (edit/sidebar: I don't mean to throw any shade at Dunkirk, though. I just think it, in a way Top Gun: Maverick has only matched, so specifically needs a theater environment to convey its stakes that I get why home audiences could be ambivalent).


Whether he sticks the landing on his interpretation or presentation of this story, it feels so tailor made for him to take a multi-million dollar crack at.

~~~~~~~~~
"This is the streets, and I am the trap." � Jay Bilas
http://www.popmatters.com/pm/archive/contributor/517
Hip Hop Handbook: http://tinyurl.com/ll4kzz

  

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bwood
Member since Apr 03rd 2006
8614 posts
Sat Jul-23-22 05:32 AM

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6. "RE: Beam me up Daddy."
In response to Reply # 5


          

On a downhill since the second Batman movie? What about Inception?!

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America from 9:00 on: https://youtu.be/GUwLCQU10KQ

  

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Nodima
Member since Jul 30th 2008
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Sat Jul-23-22 06:45 AM

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7. "Don’t try to understand it. Feel it."
In response to Reply # 6


  

          

(Oops.)


~~~~~~~~~
"This is the streets, and I am the trap." � Jay Bilas
http://www.popmatters.com/pm/archive/contributor/517
Hip Hop Handbook: http://tinyurl.com/ll4kzz

  

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bwood
Member since Apr 03rd 2006
8614 posts
Sat Jul-23-22 07:41 AM

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8. "RE: Don’t try to understand it. Feel it."
In response to Reply # 7


          

That's Tenet which sucks ass.

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America from 9:00 on: https://youtu.be/GUwLCQU10KQ

  

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bwood
Member since Apr 03rd 2006
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Sat Jul-23-22 06:00 PM

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9. "The teaser for this W-I-L-D "
In response to Reply # 0


          

Now I see why this got the budget it did.

------------------------------------------
America from 9:00 on: https://youtu.be/GUwLCQU10KQ

  

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Reeq
Member since Mar 11th 2013
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Mon Dec-19-22 06:12 AM

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11. "trailer."
In response to Reply # 0


          

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bK6ldnjE3Y0

  

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bwood
Member since Apr 03rd 2006
8614 posts
Tue Jul-11-23 06:09 PM

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14. "Early word is this is Nolan's best film."
In response to Reply # 0


          

Can't wait for next Tuesday.

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America from 9:00 on: https://youtu.be/GUwLCQU10KQ

  

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stravinskian
Member since Feb 24th 2003
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Tue Jul-11-23 11:44 PM

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15. "Holy Sonnet XIV, John Donne"
In response to Reply # 0


          


This is one of the poems Oppie was obsessing over, on the razor edge of sanity, in the weeks before the trinity test. It's why the trinity test was called the "trinity" test. The gods were playing games with these physicists, Oppie most of all, and the best they had to hope for was that those gods were destroying game theory to build a world without violence. More likely, they were destroying the world we live in to build a better one without us. Oppie and the physicists didn't know which. We're still waiting to find out, and it doesn't look good.



Batter my heart, three-person'd God, for you
As yet but knock, breathe, shine, and seek to mend;
That I may rise and stand, o'erthrow me, and bend
Your force to break, blow, burn, and make me new.
I, like an usurp'd town to another due,
Labor to admit you, but oh, to no end;
Reason, your viceroy in me, me should defend,
But is captiv'd, and proves weak or untrue.
Yet dearly I love you, and would be lov'd fain,
But am betroth'd unto your enemy;
Divorce me, untie or break that knot again,
Take me to you, imprison me, for I,
Except you enthrall me, never shall be free,
Nor ever chaste, except you ravish me.





Here it is set with strings, brass, and percussion, as composed by John Adams for his opera Doctor Atomic:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fDTFyinS3zA

  

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stravinskian
Member since Feb 24th 2003
12698 posts
Wed Jul-12-23 01:17 PM

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16. "Lol I really need to stop drunk posting about Oppenheimer."
In response to Reply # 15


          


Most of us get a little paranoid when we're high. Physicists, thinking about nukes, become downright apocalyptic. Apologies for the melodrama. I stand by it, but it is a little weird.

  

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Nodima
Member since Jul 30th 2008
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Thu Jul-13-23 02:19 AM

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17. "No in a perfect world this is perfect"
In response to Reply # 16


  

          

The thing I’m most curious about is the format of this movie. There’s no way it’s just a biopic, or even a Ford V Ferrari / that movie Damien Chazelle and Gosling made about space flight.

However clever or absolutely stupid the wrinkle is, there’ll be a wrinkle. This is a beautiful dream of what will likely be a clumsy reality.


~~~~~~~~~
"This is the streets, and I am the trap." � Jay Bilas
http://www.popmatters.com/pm/archive/contributor/517
Hip Hop Handbook: http://tinyurl.com/ll4kzz

  

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stravinskian
Member since Feb 24th 2003
12698 posts
Thu Jul-13-23 01:17 PM

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21. "It sounds like it is a relatively conventional biopic in most ways."
In response to Reply # 17


          

Apart from the purported 'first person' writing that puts Oppie in every scene. Personally I'm a little disappointed in that approach, because as I said above, there are amazing elements to this story that don't involve Oppenheimer and therefore can't be in the film. Of course Nolan is ten times the storyteller I am even in my most maniacal dreams, so I trust he put the three and a half hours to good use.

I mentioned the poem because I still think the richest part of the story is the tension, fatefulness, and fear surrounding everyone, especially Oppenheimer, as Trinity approached. Some people were still excited and curious by then, but most were starting to feel mournful and scared that this thing they'd devoted years to might turn out to be possible. The film is clearly gonna meditate on that a lot, but I hope they don't get too distracted by the more hollywood-ready story of who was passing info to the Soviets.

  

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bwood
Member since Apr 03rd 2006
8614 posts
Thu Jul-13-23 11:35 AM

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18. "First five minutes of the movie"
In response to Reply # 0


          

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sOsIKu2VAkM

Lemme know how it is. I'm skipping this until I go to my press screening in IMAX 70mm Tuesday night.

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Numba_33
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Thu Jul-13-23 12:05 PM

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19. "RE: First five minutes of the movie"
In response to Reply # 18


  

          

>https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sOsIKu2VAkM
>
>Lemme know how it is. I'm skipping this until I go to my press
>screening in IMAX 70mm Tuesday night.


I hope your eardrums will survive the experience.

Joking aside, I'm sure that will be quite the experience this that's the seven story screen you're going to be viewing the movie on.

"Sean sparks like John Starks, nah, Sean ball like John Wall" - Rest In Power Forever Sean Price.

  

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stravinskian
Member since Feb 24th 2003
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Thu Jul-13-23 01:03 PM

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20. "Looks more like a 5-minute trailer than the first 5 minutes of the movie..."
In response to Reply # 18


          


But it's great. Thanks for posting.

I'm jealous as fuck that you get to see it on Tuesday. But I've got my Imax ticket too the following Sunday. Gonna drive 2 hours for one of the showings on a real Imax screen, but it'll be worth the time and gas. From what I hear, I'll probably be quietly contemplating what just happened for most of the 2 hour drive home. I'll probably catch it on a local lienax screen on opening night as well.

  

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bwood
Member since Apr 03rd 2006
8614 posts
Sun Jul-16-23 09:09 AM

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22. "List of IMAX 70mm locations "
In response to Reply # 0


          

https://www.imax.com/news/oppenheimer-in-imax-70mm
Oppenheimer will be proudly presented at select IMAX 70mm film locations delivering a distinctive and unique way to experience the film, the way director Christopher Nolan intended.

Only in IMAX theatres will sequences shot with IMAX film cameras expand vertically to fill the entire screen.

In IMAX theatres featuring 15 perf / 70mm film, these scenes will expand images up to a 1.43:1 aspect ratio.

Experience Oppenheimer in IMAX 70mm Film only at the select locations listed below. Hurry, tickets are on sale now and only available for a limited time.

Oppenheimer | IMAX 70mm Theatre Locations

US Theatres:

Arizona

Harkins Arizona Mills 25 & IMAX – Tempe, AZ



California

AMC Metreon 16 & IMAX - San Francisco, CA

Universal Cinema AMC at CityWalk Hollywood & IMAX - Universal City, CA

TCL Chinese Theater IMAX – Hollywood CA

Regal Edwards Ontario Palace & IMAX – Ontario, CA

Regal Irvine Spectrum 21 + IMAX – Irvine CA

Esquire IMAX – Sacramento, CA

Regal Hacienda Crossings & IMAX – Dublin, CA



Florida

AutoNation IMAX, Museum of Discovery & Science - Fort Lauderdale, FL



Georgia

Regal Mall of Georgia & IMAX - Buford, GA



Indiana

IMAX Theatre at Indiana State Museum - Indianapolis, IN



Michigan

Chrysler IMAX Dome Theatre, Michigan Science Center – Detroit, MI

Celebration! Cinema Grand Rapids North & IMAX - Grand Rapids, MI



New York

AMC Lincoln Square 13 & IMAX - New York, NY



Pennsylvania

Regal UA King of Prussia & IMAX - King of Prussia, PA



Rhode Island

Providence Place Cinemas 16 and IMAX – Providence, RI



Texas

AMC Rivercenter 11 & IMAX - San Antonio, TX

Cinemark 17 & IMAX – Dallas, TX



Tennessee

Regal Opry Mills & IMAX – Nashville, TN



Canada

Scotiabank Chinook & IMAX – Calgary, AB

Scotiabank Edmonton & IMAX – Edmonton, AB

Cineplex Cinemas Langley & IMAX – Langley, BC

Cineplex Cinemas Mississauga & IMAX – Mississauga, ON

Cineplex Cinemas Vaughan & IMAX – Woodbridge ,ON

Kramer IMAX, Saskatchewan Science Centre – Regina, SK



UK

BFI IMAX, British Film Institute - London, UK

Vue Manchester IMAX & The Printworks – Manchester, UK

The Ronson Theatre at the Science Museum – London, UK



Australia

IMAX, Melbourne Museum – Melbourne, AU



Czech Republic

IMAX Theatre, Palac Flora – Prague


For all IMAX 70mm Oppenheimer showtimes, CLICK HERE, and for all other IMAX showtimes of Oppenheimer, CLICK HERE.


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bwood
Member since Apr 03rd 2006
8614 posts
Sun Jul-16-23 09:15 AM

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23. "70mm locations "
In response to Reply # 22


          

https://www.in70mm.com/news/2023/oppenheimer_cinema/index.htm

Number of 7OMM & 35mm prints being made by FotoKem for "Oppenheimer" release:

• 70mm IMAX - 30
• 70mm 5 perf - 113
• 35mm - around 80

WORLD PREMIEREs
10.07.2023 REX Cinema, Paris, France
13.07.2023 London, UK red-carpet premiere
17.07.2023 New York, US red-carpet premiere CANCELLED - “In support of the ongoing SAG strike, the filmmakers of Oppenheimer will not be proceeding with the NY premiere as originally planned and will instead screen the movie to celebrate the crew and craftspeople who contributed to making this landmark film,” Universal said in a statement.

CZECH REPUBLIC
• IMAX Theatre, Palac Flora – Prague IMAX 7OMM

Denmark, 20. July 2023
• Imperial Bio, Copenhagen
• Kino, Gentofte
• BioCity, Århus

France
• The Grand REX, Paris
• Kinepolis, Lomme

Germany, 20. July 2023
• Delphi Film Palast, Berlin
• Zoo Palast, Berlin
• Lichtburg, Essen
• Savoy, Hamburg
• Schauburg, Karlsruhe
• Astor Film Lounge, München

Holland, 21. July 2023
• KINO Rotterdam
• EYE, Amsterdam

Norway, 21. July 2023
• Cinematek, Oslo
• Klingenberg, Oslo

Ireland, 21. july
• IFT, Dublin

Italy, 20. July 2023
• Arcadia Cinema, Melzo

Spain
• Phenomena, Barcelona
• Cine Palafox, Zaragoza
• Cine Palafox Aragonia, Zaragoza

Sweden, 21. July 2023
• Royal, Malmö
• Rigoletto, Stockholm

United Kingdom, 21. July 2023
• Barnsley - Parkway
• Birmingham - The Electric 35MM
• Pictureville - Bradford
• Glasgow - Glasgov Film Theatre
• London - BFI IMAX, British Film Institute IMAX 7OMM
• London - The Ronson Theatre at the Science Museum IMAX 7OMM
• London - Odeon Leicester Sq
• London - Picturehouse Central
• Manchester - Vue Manchester IMAX & The Printworks IMAX 7OMM

Australia & Canada 7OMM Release: 7x IMAX 70mm. 8x 5/70mm

AUSTRALIA
• Brisbane - Palace St James
• Melbourne - Melbourne IMAX IMAX 7OMM
• Melbourne - Astor St Kilda
• Melbourne - SUN Yarraville
• Melbourne - Village Rivoli
• Sydney - Ritz Randwick
• Sydney - Orpheum Cremorne


CANADA
• Calgary - Scotiabank Chinook & IMAX, AB IMAX 7OMM
• Edmonton - Scotiabank Edmonton & IMAX, AB IMAX 7OMM
• Langley - Cineplex Cinemas Langley & IMAX, BC IMAX 7OMM
• Mississauga - Cineplex Cinemas Mississauga & IMAX, ON IMAX 7OMM
• Montreal, Quebec - Cinéma Banque Scotia Montréal
• Regina - Kramer IMAX, Saskatchewan Science Centre, SK IMAX 7OMM
• Toronto, Ontario - Cineplex Cinemas Varsity and VIP
• Vancouver, British Colombia - The Park Theatre
• Woodbridge - Cineplex Cinemas Vaughan & IMAX, ON IMAX 7OMM



USA 7OMM Release: 20x IMAX 70mm. 80x 5/70mm

ALABAMA
• Hoover — AMC Patton Creek 15

ARIZONA
• Glendale — AMC Westgate 20
• Tuscon - The Loft Cinema
• Tempe — Harkins Arizona Mills 25
• Tempe — Harkins Tempe Marketplace 16
• Tempe - Harkins Arizona Mills IMAX 7OMM

CALIFORNIA
• Burbank — AMC Burbank 16
• Daly City — Century Daly City 20
• Dublin - Regal Hacienda Crossings IMAX 7OMM
• Hollywood - TCL Chinese Theater IMAX 7OMM
• Irvine - Regal Irvine Spectrum 21
• Irvine — Regal Irvine Spectrum 21 IMAX 7OMM
• La Mesa — Reading Grossmont with Titan XC
• Long Beach — Regal Edwards Long Beach
• Los Angeles — Regency Village
• Los Angeles — Regal Sherman Oaks Galleria
• Los Angeles — Cinemark Howard Hughes Center 18
• Oakland - Grand Lake
• Ontario — Regal Edwards Ontario Palace
• Ontario - Regal Edwards Ontario Palace & IMAX IMAX 7OMM
• Sacramento - Esquire IMAX 7OMM
• San Francisco — AMC Kabuki 8
• San Francisco - Alamo New Mission
• San Franciso - AMC Metreon 16 IMAX 7OMM
• San Diego — AMC Mission Valley 20
• San Jose — Century Oakridge 20
• Santa Clara — AMC Mercado 20
• Torrance — AMC Del Amo 18
• Union City — Century Union City 25
• Universal City - AMC Universal CityWalk 19
• Universal City - Universal Cinema AMC at CityWalk Hollywood & IMAX IMAX 7OMM

COLORADO
• Lakewood — Regal UA Colorado Mills 16
• Westminster — AMC Westminster Promenade 24

CONNECTICUT
• Hartford — Cinestudio

DISTRICT OF COLUMBIA
• Washington — Regal Gallery Place 14

FLORIDA
• Boca Raton — Cinemark Palace 20
• Coral Gables - Coral Gables Art Cinema 1
• Davie — Cinemark Paradise 24
• Ft. Lauderdale - AutoNation IMAX, Museum of Discovery and Science IMAX 7OMM
• Aventura — AMC Aventura 24
• Tampa — AMC Veterans 24
• Lake Buena Vista — AMC DINE-IN Disney Springs 24

GEORGIA
• Atlanta — Plaza 2
• Atlanta — Regal Atlantic Station 16
• Atlanta — Tara 4
• Buford — Regal Mall of Georgia 20
• Buford - Regal Mall of Georgia & IMAX IMAX 7OMM
• Morrow — AMC Southlake 24

ILLINOIS
• Chicago — AMC River East 21
• Chicago — Music Box
• Chicago — Showplace ICON
• Crestwood — AMC Crestwood 18

Poster from Spain

INDIANA
• Indianapolis - IMAX Theater Indiana State Museum IMAX 7OMM

KANSAS
• Leawood — AMC Town Center 20

LOUISIANA
• Baton Rouge — Cinemark Perkins Rowe 16
• New Orleans — Prytania

MARYLAND
• Annapolis — AMC Annapolis Mall 11
• Silver Spring - AFI
• Hanover — Cinemark Egyptian 24

MASSACHUSETTS
• Boston - AMC Boston Common 19
• Boston - Coolidge Corner Cinema, Brookline
• Somerville — Somerville

MICHIGAN
• Detroit - Chrysler IMAX Dome Theatre, Michigan Science Center IMAX 7OMM
• Grand Rapids - Celebration! Cinema Grand Rapids North & IMAX IMAX 7OMM
• Grand Rapids — Celebration! Cinema Grand Rapids
• Livonia — AMC Livonia 20
• Southgate — MJR Southgate 20
• Sterling Heights — AMC Forum 30

MINNESOTA
• Edina — AMC Southdale 16
• Plymouth - Willow Creek Cinemas

MISSOURI
• St. Louis — Marcus Ronnie’s 20

NEVADA
• Las Vegas — AMC Town Square 18

NEW JERSEY
• Cherry Hill — AMC Cherry Hill 24
• Paramus — AMC Garden State 16

NEW MEXICO
• Albuquerque — Century Rio 24

NEW YORK:
• Brooklyn — Alamo Drafthouse Downtown Brooklyn 7
• Farmingdale 14
• New Rochelle — Regal New Roc City 19
• New York — Regal Union Square ScreenX & 4DX
• New York, City - Cinema 1,2,3 by Angelica
• New York, City - Village East by Angelika
• New York, City - AMC Lincoln Square IMAX 7OMM
• New York, City - AMC Lincoln Square 13

OHIO
• Columbus — Gateway Film Center
• Valley View — Cinemark at Valley View

OKLAHOMA
• Oklahoma City — AMC Quail Springs 24

OREGON
• Portland — Hollywood Theatre
• Tigard — Regal Bridgeport Village 18

PENNSYLVANIA
• King of Prussia - Regal UA King of Prussia
• King of Prussia — Regal UA King of Prussia 16 IMAX IMAX 7OMM

RHODE ISLAND
• Providence - Providence Place Cinemas 16
• Providence - Providence Place Cinemas 16 IMAX IMAX 7OMM

TEXAS
• Arlington — AMC The Parks at Arlington 18
• Dallas — AMC Northpark 15
• Dallas - Cinemark 17 & IMAX IMAX 7OMM
• Houston — AMC Gulf Pointe 30
• Pflugerville — Cinemark Tinseltown 20
• Plano — Cinemark West Plano 20
• San Antonio — Santikos Palladium 19
• San Antonio - AMC Rivercenter 11 & IMAX IMAX 7OMM

TENNESSEE
• Nashville - Regal Opry Mills 20
• Nashville — Regal Opry Mills 20 IMAX IMAX 7OMM

VIRGINIA
• Alexandria — AMC Hoffman Center 22
• Chantilly - Airbus IMAX, Steven F. Udvar-Hazy Center IMAX 7OMM 7OMM CANCELLED - REPLACED BY DUAL LASER IMAX
• McLean — AMC Tysons Corner 16
• Woodbridge — AMC Potomac Mills 18

WASHINGTON
• Seattle — AMC Pacific Place 11

WISCONSIN
• Milwaukee - The Oriental Theater
• Waukesha - Marcus Majestic Cinema of Brookfield


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bwood
Member since Apr 03rd 2006
8614 posts
Sun Jul-16-23 09:18 AM

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24. "IMAX dual laser "
In response to Reply # 23


          

If your IMAX is a giant screwn and has dual laser projection, it can do full 1.43:1.

My recommendations on seeing this are:

IMAX 70mm

Dual Laser IMAX

70mm

And if none of those options are available then definitely do standard IMAX.

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bwood
Member since Apr 03rd 2006
8614 posts
Thu Jul-20-23 06:09 AM

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29. "Updated after seeing the movie"
In response to Reply # 24


          

IMAX 70mm film

70mm

IMAX dual Laser projection

Dolby Cinema

35mm

regular theater

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bwood
Member since Apr 03rd 2006
8614 posts
Sun Jul-16-23 09:20 AM

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25. "Format guide to help you choose "
In response to Reply # 0


          

https://www.oppenheimermovie.com/tickets/formats/

OPPENHEIMER PREMIUM LARGE FORMATS
IMAX 70mm
Select IMAX theatres will be offering the IMAX Experience featuring 15 perf/70mm film projection which combines the brightest, clearest images at 10 times the resolution of standard projection formats, with powerful, laser-aligned digital sound and customized theatre geometry to create the world’s most immersive movie experience.

70mm film
5 perf/70mm film offers a brighter, clearer image, with 3 times the resolution of standard projection formats, using the process of projecting light through celluloid to deliver clear images in rich analog color with state-of-the-art digital sound.

35mm film
35mm anamorphic film screenings project light through the entire 35millimeter frame to deliver clear, high resolution images with rich analog color combined with state of the art digital sound in most locations.

IMAX
IMAX theatres feature projectors that produce sharper, clearer and vivid images, laser-aligned sound and customized theatre geometry, creating the world’s most immersive digital movie experience. IMAX is the only experience to offer the film in 1.90:1 aspect ratio as well as 1.43:1 in select locations.

Dolby Cinema
The Dolby Vision projection system consists of dual 4K laser projectors capable of delivering up to 108 nits (31 Foot Lamberts) of full-screen brightness—resulting in a richer, more detailed viewing experience, with strikingly vivid and realistic images.

4K Digital Cinema
4k digital projection produces a clear, bright, high-resolution image with absolute stability and cleanliness, combined with uncompressed digital sound for a powerful moviegoing experience. Digital Cinema Packages are available in an aspect ratio of 2.2:1 in both Flat and Scope containers in order to fill more screen space for every auditorium.

OPPENHEIMER TECHNICAL SPECIFICATIONS
OPPENHEIMER was shot using a combination of 5-perf 65mm and 15 perf IMAX FILM. When presented on 70mm IMAX, the sequences shot on 15 perf IMAX are printed full quality in their native format - the highest quality imaging format ever devised, offering ten times the resolution of standard formats, and filling the giant IMAX screens from top to bottom. The 5-perf 65mm sequences fill the IMAX screen side-to-side. The finished picture is fully analogue and switches between the 2.20:1 and 1.43:1 aspect ratios throughout the film. This is combined with an IMAX uncompressed 5.0 digital sound mix for the most immersive presentation of the film.


The Digital Cinema IMAX digital presentation has been created from 8k scans of the original film elements, graded specifically for the high contrast dual-projector IMAX digital projectors, before being scaled to 4K resolution and packaged with the uncompressed IMAX 5.0 sound mix of the film.


When presented on regular 70mm film, the sequences shot on 5-perf 65mm are presented in their native format, the IMAX sequences have been optically reduced to 70mm 5-perf film to produce a grain-free, ultra-high resolution image, cropped top and bottom to fill the wider frame. This process is photochemical, preserving the original analog color of the imagery and presented in a 2.2:1 aspect ratio. The sound is carried on a separate DTS disc to produce state-of-the-art 6-track digital sound.


The 35mm prints have been made photochemically, preserving all the rich analog color of the original 65mm photography, and cropped top and bottom to create a seamless 2.35:1 anamorphic image. The sound is coded on the prints in Dolby SR as well as Dolby 5.1 and DTS for 6-track digital playback.


The Digital Cinema presentation of OPPENHEIMER has been created from 8k scans of the photochemically color-graded film elements, scaled to 4K, fine-tuned in the digital realm to maximize the color and contrast attributes of digital projectors, and dust-busted to achieve the cleanest and most stable image presentation possible. The film was finished in 4k for the highest digital resolution currently available.


The sound on OPPENHEIMER has been specifically mixed to maximize the power of the low-end frequencies in the main channels as well as in the subwoofer channel. This effect is present is in all available presentations of OPPENHEIMER, all of which have been designed to play back at the volume level designated by the industry at 7 on the Dolby cinema processor.

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bwood
Member since Apr 03rd 2006
8614 posts
Tue Jul-18-23 09:41 PM

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26. "This is dense. "
In response to Reply # 0


          

Got out of the 8 story IMAX an hour ago and it's A LOT to take in on a first watch.

The last hour is amazing and from top to bottom everything is incredible. Not one prop or performance is bad. This really is a staggering achievement. Reminded me of Oliver Stone's JFK in some respects.

I definitely need to see this again. Might be my favorite movie of the year so far.

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makaveli
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Wed Jul-19-23 10:11 AM

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27. "i'm sure was he was great but how was Cillian?"
In response to Reply # 26


  

          

he's one of my favorite actors. going to watch on imax next weekend i think.

“So back we go to these questions — friendship, character… ethics.”

  

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bwood
Member since Apr 03rd 2006
8614 posts
Wed Jul-19-23 10:35 AM

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28. "You won't be disappointed by his performance "
In response to Reply # 27


          

Might be his best performance yet.

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will_5198
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Sun Aug-06-23 01:29 PM

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59. "has to be one of, if not his best (Cillian)"
In response to Reply # 27


          

--------

  

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Frank Longo
Member since Nov 18th 2003
86670 posts
Fri Jul-21-23 09:27 PM

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30. "Outstanding. Nolan's best, one of the best of the year, etc."
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

Gonna see it again Monday with the wife, but the 70mm presentation didn't disappoint. I'm normally the King of Biopic Skeptics, but Nolan smashes it out of the park here.

And while the performances are all great-- Murphy, Pugh, Blunt, Safdie, Krumholtz, obviously RDJ, etc.-- the music was really the MVP for me. An absolutely outstanding, sweeping, operatic, intentionally concussive score. Really brings everything home.

My movies: http://russellhainline.com
My movie reviews: https://letterboxd.com/RussellHFilm/
My beer TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@thebeertravelguide

  

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Deebot
Member since Oct 21st 2004
26762 posts
Sat Jul-22-23 10:49 AM

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32. "the score......so good"
In response to Reply # 30
Sat Jul-22-23 10:57 AM by Deebot

          

particularly when the bomb is created and they're getting ready to test. The score has a horror movie feel and makes it seem like a creation from hell, amplifying the suspense. Really fits the Prometheus theme.

  

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Deebot
Member since Oct 21st 2004
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Sat Jul-22-23 10:46 AM

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31. "Nolan's best. Incredible"
In response to Reply # 0


          

He restrained himself enough to tell a relatively straightforward story, without sacrificing his usual style. The scenes that he did stylize the most were executed perfectly. The way the story is structured, the last 45 mins are a tad anticlimactic, but the great ending makes up for it. 9.5/10

  

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stravinskian
Member since Feb 24th 2003
12698 posts
Sat Jul-22-23 01:32 PM

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33. "Next day thoughts."
In response to Reply # 0


          

As you can see above, I'm an obsessive about this story and I've been anticipating it for years. As for the film itself -- incredibly skillful on all counts. Deserves all the awards etc. etc. But nobody needs me to tell them that. I do actually have some quibbles with it. Some minor, some major. But none of them cloud the fact that this is probably the best that this story could possibly be told in this medium to such a broad audience.

After my first viewing (I'm seeing it again in giant-screen Imax tomorrow), what I mostly have right now are random scattered thoughts, comments, opinions, and things I noticed. I'll start with the trivia.


The Trinity test:

Like a lot of reviewers, I found the Trinity visuals to be kind of a letdown. This was mostly due to Nolan's insistence on avoiding digital effects. If you don't use digital effects, you just can't convincingly represent a nuclear-powered explosion. Chemical combustion involves reactions that are vastly less energetic than nuclear reactions. So what we got was really just a big, mushroom-shaped fireball. The real Trinity explosion looked a lot more exotic -- a lot more white light, a lot less orange light, and a hazy purple aurora around the whole thing, caused by superheated plasma from x-ray emissions interacting with the ambient air. That said, the temptation to celebrate these explosions like fireworks is best avoided, considering their deeper significance. I think they made the right choice to downplay the visual spectacle. Downplaying visual spectacles does not seem to come easy to Christopher Nolan.

Also on the Trinity scene: it wasn't just an artsy flourish that they cut the sound during the explosion. That's really how it was. Each of those viewing sites was five and a half miles from the point of the explosion. Light travels five miles almost instantaneously. But the sound from the explosion would take 26 seconds to travel that far. So they were able to see the whole explosion before they heard a peep of sound. Next time I see the movie I'm gonna try to time that silent section out in my head. I hope it was 26 seconds long.

One thing I wish they had tried harder on in the Trinity scene, was the initial flash. By all accounts the light was astonishingly bright, easily even bending around corners to turn night into blindingly-bright day (I actually wonder if this will look more convincing on the giant-screen Imax projection I'll see tomorrow than on the "Cinemark XD" screen I saw it on last night). As much as I'm glad they downplayed the visual spectacle, this was such an otherworldly part of the experience to merit retelling. It lasted about two seconds, but felt much longer. Richard Rhodes quotes Izzy Rabi (David Krumholtz in the movie):

"We were lying there, very tense, in the early dawn, and there were just a few streaks of gold in the east; you could see your neighbor very dimly. those ten seconds were the longest ten seconds that I ever experienced. Suddenly, there was an enormous flash of light, the brightest light I have ever seen or that I think anyone has ever seen. It blasted; it pounced; it bored its way right through you. I was a vision which was seen with more than the eye. It was seen to last forever. You would wish it would stop, altogether it lasted about two seconds. Finally it was over, diminishing, and we looked toward the place where the bomb had been; there was an enormous ball of fire which grew and grew and it rolled as it grew; it went up into the air, in yellow flashes and into scarlet and green. It looked menacing. It seemed to come toward one. A new thing had just been born; a new control; a new understanding of man, which man had acquired over nature."


People:

Historically speaking, and in the general view of the physics community, Edward Teller was just as much a snake as he was made out to be, here. Good to see that presented clearly. There's more to be said about the kind of physicist he was (I've known others who behaved similarly on a much smaller scale), but I don't have the energy to go there now.

A cute little cinematic easter-egg: During the Trinity test scene, Teller is sitting in a chair with dark, round welding goggles and pasty white skin from his thick coat of suntan lotion. If you thought he looked like Doctor Strangelove, that's because the character of Doctor Strangelove was based directly on Edward Teller.



Hans Bethe, the tall, half-bald, German-born theorist who argued once or twice with Teller in the movie, is now as revered among physicists as Teller is loathed, mostly for purely scientific contributions (though by all accounts he was a lovely fellow as well -- I used to work in the Cornell astrophysics department, and people there still get rhapsodic about what a supportive and intellectually generous a person he was). Before and after the Manhattan Project, he mostly worked on applying nuclear theory to astrophysics. His greatest discovery (which actually came before the Manhattan Project, IIRC) was arguably one of the biggest discoveries of the 20th century. He literally figured out how the sun works. For centuries, people thought of the sun as a literal ball of fire. Newton even tried to argue in the Principia that the sun burns in the same way as "a culinary fire." But by the early 19th century, we knew enough chemistry to know that such a fire would have to burn out in just a few hundred years if it was lit by chemical means, so this posed one of the great quandaries of the age, the "dark energy" question of its time. Almost single-handedly, Bethe hypothesized and showed that the sun is powered by gravitationally-induced thermonuclear fusion, and he was even able to calculate the various chemical abundances and how they evolve over time. Basically 90% of what we know about how stars are powered and how they evolve was discovered by Bethe in a sequence of just a few papers written at a time when the basic theory of fusion had just barely been discovered. He also, years later, developed the theory of supernovas, which are still a difficult subject for theory today. Everyone I know who works in supernova physics assigns students to start by reading a review paper that Bethe wrote in 1990.


Speaking of stars: as noted in the movie, Oppenheimer's most revered early contribution to physics was a paper he wrote with his Berkeley student, Harland Snyder, about the relativistic gravitational collapse of collisionless dust. This was indeed the first paper that showed how black holes form, at a time before the phrase "black hole" even existed and well before we broadly thought of them as astrophysical objects. His other blockbuster early paper, from around the same time, was the first (and still best) mathematical description of Neutron stars. If you go to a relativity conference to this day, maybe 30% of the talks will mention "TOV stars" for Tolman, Oppenheimer, and Volkov. If Oppenheimer hadn't been so many decades ahead of his time on these papers, they most definitely would have won him a Nobel prize.

Speaking of TOV, I had actually forgotten that Oppie had had an affair with Tolman's wife. That complication aside, Tolman and Oppenheimer had a really good working relationship, and basically founded the theoretical astrophysics group at Caltech. I did my PhD in theoretical astrophysics at Caltech, and I still remember the huge portraits of them both that I used to walk past between meetings.



Kurt Goedel -- the guy Einstein was walking with when Oppie was bringing him Teller's calculations about runaway reactions in the atmosphere -- Kurt Goedel was a real guy and indeed a good friend and frequent walking companion with Einstein in his later years. And he's a figure in some ways analogous for pure math to what Bohr and Heisenberg were for the physical world. He developed the structures that define modern mathematical logic. And along the way, in his most famous discovery, he showed that no "complete" system of mathematics could ever be constructed. All mathematical systems must begin with a few basic definitions and assumptions, and whatever you start out with, whatever system of math you construct, there will always be statements that are true but literally unproveable, no matter how smart one might be. You might say that math has an "uncertainty principle" like physics does (though this one is very different in structure), and that was Goedel's discovery. He also did some physics, perhaps inspired by conversations with Einstein. One of the really interesting spacetime structures that still bedevils theoretical physics as a counterexample to many of the usual assumptions about causality, was discovered by Goedel.


I do wish we'd been able to see more of a few particularly crucial people, but I understand that doing so would have required blowing this movie way out over the three hour mark (I still think this story should have be a 10-20 episode series, not a movie). In particular, there are at least three people around whom even better films could have been written: Szilard, Bohr, and Heisenberg (and maybe Fermi).

We saw Szilard in only two or three scenes, and for some reason he looked a little creepy in both. But Szilard was, for one thing, the real conscience of the nuclear community, and for another thing, the real "father" of nuclear physics. He was the first person to realize that nuclear chain reactions could occur, that they could be used for safe, clean energy generation *and* for catastrophically violent weapons. He developed the science in secret for years before anyone else got into it (he even played elaborate tricks with patent law to keep the discoveries secret at a time when the UK and US militaries didn't think it was realistic enough to classify). And yes, he famously wrote the letter, signed by Einstein, that went to FDR and led to the creation of the Manhattan project. The reason we didn't see more of him in this movie is basically because he was sidelined by politicians even *before* the project began. In many ways, he was Oppenheimer before Oppenheimer was Oppenheimer.

It was cool to see David Hill (Rami Malek), a Szilard associate, as the guy who eventually surprised everyone by speaking up against Strauss and in support of Oppenheimer in the hearing. I was unaware of that particular association.


Bohr, as in the movie (Branagh), was the great sage of quantum mechanics even before quantum mechanics existed. Weirdly, he was able to develop the science, and the whole framework of thinking about it, not by being a great physicist (though he absolutely was) but by knowing a lot of philosophy and taking it seriously. Much of how we now think about QM actually came from Kierkegaard by way of Bohr.

But the actual mathematical structures that define QM today came from Bohr's student, Werner Heisenberg. Heisenberg, though we know his science and his biography inside and out, is a deeply mysterious fellow, historically. Mostly this is because of his leadership of the German nuclear project. The Nazis indeed had an 18-month head start, and they indeed had (by near-universal acknowledgement) the most skilled and efficient theorist in the world in Werner Heisenberg. But why did Heisenberg, protege of the great sage, work for the Nazis even after seeing scientific institutions all over Germany decimated by purges of Jewish academics (and, eventually, much worse)? And more interestingly, how could the greatest mathematical theorist of his century fail so completely at his work despite a huge head start? We briefly saw an element of the answer in the movie, where Bohr (Branagh) reported that Heisenberg was focused on heavy-water as a moderator, which Oppie and the team saw as a dead end that would never be useful for weapons anyway. Early in the development of the German program, Heisenberg severely messed up some calculations related to critical masses of enriched Uranium and Plutonium, leading to the (untrue) conclusion that they could never be used for practical weapons. So the program switched over entirely to energy generation technology (nuclear reactors). Did he really mess up that calculation? Or did he intentionally mess it up, knowing that if he did it right he'd be forced to make a bomb that he didn't trust Hitler to use, knowing full well that after the Jewish purges there weren't enough skilled theorists in the country to disagree? Heisenberg himself implied the latter in his later years, but it's such a self-serving story that people are naturally skeptical. People mostly know Heisenberg nowadays for the "uncertainty principle" at the foundation of quantum mechanics. But he somehow found a way to tangle his own history into a state where we'll probably never be sure whether he was an opportunist Nazi toadie, or someone who gave up all of his friendships, prestige, and public respect to literally save the world.

An interesting bit of game theory if we take at least part of that Heisenberg story for granted: the US developed the bomb because they knew that the Nazis could never be allowed to develop it first. Heisenberg and the Nazis (arguably) frittered away the idea of nuclear weapons because they *didn't* have an existential fear of the west. In a competitive situation, the side that poses greater existential risk is naturally less inclined to develop more terrible weapons, and the side that poses less existential risk is naturally *more* inclined to develop more terrible weapons. One of the many situations where perverse incentives developed through layer after layer of unintended consequences.


As for Bohr, he spent about half the war still working in Nazi-occupied Denmark. Despite his high public profile, he was instrumental in a clandestine program (microfilms, dead drops, all the usual spy paraphernalia) to get hundreds of Jewish refugees out and to the west. He himself was under almost constant Nazi surveillance, so this was a pretty astounding feat. There's also the question of what happened between Bohr and Heisenberg, as Heisenberg took over the department at Goettingen (the institute where Oppie ended up finishing his PhD, on Bohr's recommendation), and eventually the German nuclear program. Heisenberg was Bohr's greatest protege, so it was a very difficult situation for their relationship. There was a great play, a decade or two ago, that goes into this later relationship in detail, called "Copenhagen." I saw a pretty good BBC adaptation of it a while ago (with Daniel Craig as Heisenberg). It goes over a series of tense meetings between Bohr and Heisenberg, well into the war, as they were desperately trying to figure out each other's allegiances, and more importantly, how much each other knows about nuclear physics, as a matter of espionage. (That's how Bohr was eventually able to feed this heavy-water info to Los Alamos.)

Speaking of Daniel Craig: Bohr's eventual escape from occupied Denmark (which he briefly mentioned in the movie, in the noisy party scene after he arrived in Los Alamos) was a story right out of James Bond. they stuffed him into the unpressurized bomb bay of a Nazi military plane (key members of the crew were undercover British agents), Bohr messed up his oxygen tank and passed out during the flight, nearly dying, and eventually he was dropped over Scotland, like a bomb, from that bay with a parachute that thankfully opened automatically. Yes, Niels Bohr was the coolest fucking scientist who ever lived.



A random observation, unrelated to basically everything else in this post:

After years of delay, on Oppenheimer's implicit recommendation I finally just got a copy of the Bhagavad Gita (though not in sanskrit, lol). Oppie was not Hindu, or religious in any conventional sense, but he did indeed have an abiding fascination with this book, and kept it on his desk for basically his whole life. As I'm learning about it and starting to read it, I'm noticing how different it is from most scriptural texts. The whole story is really just a retelling of a military campaign. How did a myth about war become so central to one of the world's great religions? The simple answer (as far as I understand) is that the war is symbolic of the internal struggles in the human soul. It strikes me as an interesting coincidence that the story of the Manhattan project, itself an explicitly military project, is so symbolically meaningful to the struggles of morality and the human soul.


Finally, my two quibbles. First, the less serious one:

Physics lectures don't look like that, physics talks don't look like that, conversations among physicists (technical or nontechnical) don't look like that. Technical conversations probably couldn't be presented well on film. There's just too much hidden language. But I'm a little surprised that in all my years of obsessing over sciencey movies, I've never seen a physics lecture in a movie or a TV show that looks anything like a physics lecture. I would have guessed Nolan could be the guy to do it, but nope. For one thing, where were the goddamn chalkboards? I've been doing physics for about 25 years, and chalkboards have always been my instrument of choice. I've never used, or seen anyone use, one of those dinky, single-pane, rolling on casters, little chalkboards that were all over this movie, for anything more substantial than "Welcome to the conference! Pick up your name badges on the table to your left." Anyway, that's just a silly complaint for the physics nerds.


My more significant complaint, and respectfully, it's kinda central to the movie:

Too much goddamn Oppenheimer! And way too much Louis Strauss. I could spend all day watching these actors playing those parts as beautifully as they did. And I get that interpersonal conflicts are almost a necessity for anchoring historical stories, especially biographies. I also get that the conflict between Strauss and Oppenheimer is symbolic of the conflict between politicians and scientists, which is a much deeper and more meaningful part of the story of the Manhattan Project. But we're talking about the future of all humanity here, and hundreds of thousands of people who were vaporized, melted, or worse. And the center of the movie is a petty squabble that did little more than lower the public profile of two men both well into their has-been years? I was honestly a little insulted by the flashy lights and noises, invoking the Trinity explosion when Oppie was in the hearing room. I think it's unfair to say that the movie ignores Japan, as some critical reviews have argued. Japan haunts this movie probably more than it haunted Oppenheimer himself, to be honest. As it should. But that self-indulgent scene was a catastrophic missing of the real point, as, again, I think the overall emphasis on Oppenheimer was as well.




Okay, that's it for this viewing. Clearly the movie was a hell of an experience for me, both for what it included and for what it didn't have time to include. I think this movie is a major event in the history of physics, in part because of the time it appeared. I hope it can drive a new public understanding of what science is, can be, and should be, in this era where we seem to have forgotten most of that. I also fear that all of the effusive praise it's currently getting will soon-enough engender a backlash from those who've decided science is the cause of all the world's ills rather than the complex and essential element of the human condition that it truly is. For now, I'm really just glad that we have opportunities to collectively think such big thoughts.

  

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Deebot
Member since Oct 21st 2004
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35. "Whoa"
In response to Reply # 33


          

  

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stravinskian
Member since Feb 24th 2003
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36. "Lol, yeah."
In response to Reply # 35


          


Like I said, it's a tale of mythic significance.

  

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obsidianchrysalis
Member since Jan 29th 2003
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Wed Aug-02-23 12:41 AM

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49. "Great post"
In response to Reply # 33


  

          

I appreciate the historical and scientific context to Oppenheimer, the man, and the movie.

<--- Me when my head hits the pillow

  

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will_5198
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60. "thanks"
In response to Reply # 33


          

--------

  

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Damali
Member since Sep 12th 2002
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Sun Sep-03-23 07:36 PM

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61. "thank you for every word of that. I learned so much."
In response to Reply # 33


          

I'm in awe of you.

d

"i do more for both our communities than you'll ever know." - Heinz
"But rest assured, in my luxurious house built on the backs of people darker than me, I am sipping fine scotch and scoffing at how stupid you are." - bshelly

  

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stravinskian
Member since Feb 24th 2003
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Sat Jul-22-23 07:19 PM

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34. "Ahh! Color/BW was about perspective (Strauss vs Oppenheimer)"
In response to Reply # 0
Sat Jul-22-23 07:21 PM by stravinskian

          

I feel dumb for not noticing this at the time. I just read somewhere on the internet that the coloring is about the perspective structure.

As Murphy and Downey have been saying in interviews, the script was written in "first person," whatever that means. Apparently what it means is that the color scenes were written and staged as Oppenheimer would remember them. The B&W scenes were staged and written as Strauss would remember them.

Now that I think about it, Oppenheimer always seemed a little more snooty and self important in the BW scenes. And any scenes that didn't have Strauss were in color. The few scenes that didn't have Oppenheimer (Strauss's legal maneuvering scenes) were in BW. There were even a few scenes that we saw both ways (Oppie meeting Strauss, and then Einstein, at the Institute for Advanced Study) showed Oppenheimer in a more positive light in the color presentation, and Strauss in a better light in the BW presentation.

  

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Damali
Member since Sep 12th 2002
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62. "well damn, now i gotta see it again."
In response to Reply # 34


          


"i do more for both our communities than you'll ever know." - Heinz
"But rest assured, in my luxurious house built on the backs of people darker than me, I am sipping fine scotch and scoffing at how stupid you are." - bshelly

  

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bwood
Member since Apr 03rd 2006
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Sun Jul-23-23 08:28 PM

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37. "S aw it a second time. Again in IMAX 70mm."
In response to Reply # 0


          

This rewatch clinches it aa my favorite movie of the year. Still maybe Nolan's best. I need this movie to age some amd revist it after a couple of years like his other ones. So many subtleties that pay off later. The broken glass quickly same cutting into how he sees molecules and atoms. Perfect.

Gonna try to catch this again in 70mm IMAX (if they can workout something with BLUE BEETLE) or 70mm. Just more time.

------------------------------------------
America from 9:00 on: https://youtu.be/GUwLCQU10KQ

  

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Ryan M
Member since Oct 21st 2002
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Mon Jul-24-23 09:26 PM

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38. "This was very good. Great to see in 70mm. "
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

------------------------------

17x NBA Champions

  

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Nodima
Member since Jul 30th 2008
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Tue Jul-25-23 08:10 PM

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39. "A little too much Nolan-ese in the dialogue, but THAT sequence"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

I admit I shed some tears. Terrifying and depressing.


As I told a friend afterward, it was a 7/10 movie that built to an 11/10 climax. I'd just rewatched And Justice for All over the weekend and it felt like a great double feature. The ways in which both movies are oddly structured are very different but they leave you with similar feelings of melancholy.


I'm not sure who else in 2023 could've made this movie, but both the editing and like a quarter of the script didn't feel in sync with the best bits. Though I will say that I could hear, probably even make, an argument that the tossed off attempts at humor and Dark Knight Rises level editing underscore how juvenile we as people are in the shadow of nuclear bombs. So I forgive it, mostly.


RDJ, very nice to see him do some acting again.


~~~~~~~~~
"This is the streets, and I am the trap." � Jay Bilas
http://www.popmatters.com/pm/archive/contributor/517
Hip Hop Handbook: http://tinyurl.com/ll4kzz

  

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rdhull
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Fri Jul-28-23 09:34 PM

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40. "RE: A little too much Nolan-ese in the dialogue, but THAT sequence"
In response to Reply # 39


  

          


>I'm not sure who else in 2023 could've made this movie, but
>both the editing and like a quarter of the script didn't feel
>in sync with the best bits. Though I will say that I could
>hear, probably even make, an argument that the tossed off
>attempts at humor and Dark Knight Rises level editing
>underscore how juvenile we as people are in the shadow of
>nuclear bombs. So I forgive it, mostly.

Ha! I felt I was watching TDKR with the the editing and fast paced soundtrack.

  

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mista k5
Member since Feb 01st 2006
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Mon Jul-31-23 10:18 AM

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41. "Really good"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

I don't think I have any real complaints. It didn't really grab me to where it will become an all time favorite movie but I can see it being considered an all time great movie.

I wish I would have paced myself with my soda lol I had to get up right after they dropped the bomb and I guess Oppi was walking up to do a speech. Came back as I'm guessing he was walking back down after the speech. Don't think it was the worst place to walk out but I don't really know huh lol

I was definitely left with a lot of questions and wanting to see more about x and y but considering it was a 3 hour long movie I more than I understand why we didn't.

I do wish I had a 70mm theater near by, saw it in standard IMAX (I think).

  

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Ryan M
Member since Oct 21st 2002
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Mon Jul-31-23 12:21 PM

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42. "Spoilers"
In response to Reply # 41


  

          

And I'm sorry to be the bearer of bad news, but you probably left during one of the best scenes of the movie.

------------------------------

17x NBA Champions

  

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bwood
Member since Apr 03rd 2006
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Mon Jul-31-23 12:53 PM

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43. "Agreed."
In response to Reply # 42


          

One of the best and disturbing scenes of the movie.

------------------------------------------
America from 9:00 on: https://youtu.be/GUwLCQU10KQ

  

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mista k5
Member since Feb 01st 2006
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44. "I figured I would get back a bit after he got started"
In response to Reply # 42
Mon Jul-31-23 02:07 PM by mista k5

  

          

Definitely kicked myself a bit when I saw he was walking back when I got back. I guess I'll need to dig up a boot or wait for it to hit streaming to see what I missed.


Was there any spot that you would tell people to time their break for if they have to take one?

I had been holding off for 30 minutes by that time and not sure that I saw many openings during that period.

  

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Nodima
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50. "Yea, the way the audience for that speech was louder than the bomb"
In response to Reply # 42


  

          

Was such a significant slap in the face. I felt like I was realizing right alongside Opp that a lot, maybe most, Americans were going to be less concerned with how devastating and terrifying this weapon would be than the fact America both did it first and used it last.


Like I said above I've got my issues with a decent amount of the dialogue and some of the editing but that half hour leading up to and reacting to the Trinity test is exactly why Nolan films will always be a must see for me. As well as evidence that despite some palpable flaws, he's clearly one of the 30 or 40 most talented directors ever.


~~~~~~~~~
"This is the streets, and I am the trap." � Jay Bilas
http://www.popmatters.com/pm/archive/contributor/517
Hip Hop Handbook: http://tinyurl.com/ll4kzz

  

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stravinskian
Member since Feb 24th 2003
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Mon Jul-31-23 02:11 PM

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45. "Scathing review from Richard Brody in The New Yorker"
In response to Reply # 0
Mon Jul-31-23 02:33 PM by stravinskian

          

And as much as I obviously appreciated the movie, I can't generally dispute his complaints.

https://www.newyorker.com/culture/the-front-row/oppenheimer-is-ultimately-a-history-channel-movie-with-fancy-editing

Sorry for the paywall. If you've "already read your 5 articles", or whatever, the gist of the review is in the title: apart from all the fancy editing, it's ultimately not much richer than a history channel documentary. (I've been laughing comparing it to the one about the creation of the Chicken McNugget.)

I don't think I share this view entirely, but the complaint (as I understand it) is that it squeezes in a thousand little facts, but spends very little time exploring people's deeper motivations. And the deeper motivations here are very rich and complex.

Did he really try to murder his Cambridge advisor? The historical case is more complex than presented here, but something kinda like that happened, and it did end up culminating in Oppenheimer being forced into psychiatric treatment. In the movie, there was a one sentence suggestion of this point. But it was very easy to miss and it leaves you wondering what the hell was going on with that particular scene.

The ethical question of whether to use the bomb, and how, and who should even have an opinion on the matter, was even more complicated for Oppenheimer. And while they certainly show him being extremely conflicted (and arguably hypocritical), this core question would have been a lot clearer if the movie spent more time on the variety of views and concerns among the physicists. Ultimately all we got was a skin-deep summary of who took which side, and even that seemed bizarrely conflated with the attempts to unionize.

We also got very little exploration of Oppenheimer's mental state in the days before Trinity. He was cracking under the pressure and growing erratic and fatalistic.

By the way, "I am become death, destroyer of worlds." Has always been misunderstood by the public, and everybody seems to be misunderstanding it here. Oppenheimer wasn't saying he felt omnipotent like Vishnu there. He was saying he felt like the lowly mortal, Arjuna, who was talking to Vishnu. Vishnu was telling Arjuna that he's ultimately powerless in comparison, Vishnu (the laws of physics) was in charge, and that he had no choice but to do his duty and have faith in Vishnu's wisdom. The richest part of Oppenheimer's story is how he was being manipulated by everyone: Groves, Pash, Truman, Szilard, Teller, and ultimately the universe itself. In the week of the Trinity test he felt like everyone's puppet. Is that a self-serving personal narrative, a deep truth about the nature of collective morality, or some of both? The movie doesn't really try to explore the question.

I still don't think there was time to explore any of this stuff any better while keeping the movie under four hours, at least without dropping some other major plot points. (I still think they should have left out Strauss and both hearings, maybe left them for "Oppenheimer 2", though I can't pretend I could have written a script that would have held the story together without them.)

All that said, while I do agree that basically every characterization in the movie was thin, it was presented with enough style to get people to think and talk about motivations, which is a victory in itself.

  

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ternary_star
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Tue Aug-01-23 01:56 PM

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46. "I 100% agree with this take"
In response to Reply # 45
Tue Aug-01-23 02:00 PM by ternary_star

  

          

Apart from the time-hopping editing and a stylistic choice during the Trinity Test scene, what did Nolan bring to this movie? It's literally a wikipedia article, as it frenetically jumps from moment to moment. It's a paint-by-numbers biopic in almost every way.

Ultimately, it was a huge miss to focus on one man rather than the group effort. We wasted so much time on biopic cliches like spurned wife and isolated genius. There was an entire british spy subplot that gets 3 seconds of mention because the movie's obsessed with one guy.

If anything, the movie highlights why we should never focus this much attention on one person; any significant movement or societal impact is always the work of dozens/hundreds/thousands of people.

  

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bwood
Member since Apr 03rd 2006
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Tue Aug-01-23 07:01 PM

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47. "I thought it was riveting "
In response to Reply # 46


          

The first hour was a biopic just showing how fucked up this guy is and how someone would think of creating something so destructive. It's all laid out between him poisoning the apple, his neurotic thoughts on how he sees quantum mechanics by throwing glass at a wall, his trip across Europe while the Nazis come into power.

And when they split the atom, his first thought is to build a bomb. And it moves like a freight train on this section.

The last hour of the film is my favorite. It's a courtroom thriller that has layers like an onion.

There's so many moments in this that floored me.

The evilness of picking where to drop the bomb.

Him dropping his kid off.

Him asking Groves if he can go to Washington, with Groves immediately saying why and Oppenheimer realizing he's done and the government got what they wanted from him.

So many moments making an incredible film of truly awful people. It's really fascinating look on human nature.

------------------------------------------
America from 9:00 on: https://youtu.be/GUwLCQU10KQ

  

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Nodima
Member since Jul 30th 2008
15297 posts
Wed Aug-02-23 01:28 AM

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51. "I loved learning that James Remar had a huge hand in that target meet"
In response to Reply # 47


  

          

He was the person who learned his character had such a fondness for Kyoto he felt an obligation to exclude it from potential targets convinced Nolan to add it to the script.


I've also gotta admit that before I read that anecdote I honestly didn't realize that was Remar, who I'd consider a pretty damn recognizable dude.


~~~~~~~~~
"This is the streets, and I am the trap." � Jay Bilas
http://www.popmatters.com/pm/archive/contributor/517
Hip Hop Handbook: http://tinyurl.com/ll4kzz

  

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bwood
Member since Apr 03rd 2006
8614 posts
Thu Aug-03-23 05:38 AM

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55. "RE: I loved learning that James Remar had a huge hand in that target mee..."
In response to Reply # 51


          

Damn! Everyone is on their A game here

------------------------------------------
America from 9:00 on: https://youtu.be/GUwLCQU10KQ

  

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Damali
Member since Sep 12th 2002
35863 posts
Sun Sep-03-23 07:54 PM

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63. "interestingly, what struck me was..."
In response to Reply # 47


          


>So many moments making an incredible film of truly awful
>people. It's really fascinating look on human nature.

...that they were all not just truly awful people...they were mostly truly awful WHITE MEN.

like i feel like that detail is too significant to be ignored.

d

"i do more for both our communities than you'll ever know." - Heinz
"But rest assured, in my luxurious house built on the backs of people darker than me, I am sipping fine scotch and scoffing at how stupid you are." - bshelly

  

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rdhull
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33131 posts
Tue Aug-01-23 11:18 PM

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"geezus. Its from Nolan, they wanted Ken Burns"


  

          

>And as much as I obviously appreciated the movie, I can't
>generally dispute his complaints.
>
>https://www.newyorker.com/culture/the-front-row/oppenheimer-is-ultimately-a-history-channel-movie-with-fancy-editing
>
>Sorry for the paywall. If you've "already read your 5
>articles", or whatever, the gist of the review is in the
>title: apart from all the fancy editing, it's ultimately not
>much richer than a history channel documentary. (I've been
>laughing comparing it to the one about the creation of the
>Chicken McNugget.)
>
>I don't think I share this view entirely, but the complaint
>(as I understand it) is that it squeezes in a thousand little
>facts, but spends very little time exploring people's deeper
>motivations. And the deeper motivations here are very rich and
>complex.
>
>Did he really try to murder his Cambridge advisor? The
>historical case is more complex than presented here, but
>something kinda like that happened, and it did end up
>culminating in Oppenheimer being forced into psychiatric
>treatment. In the movie, there was a one sentence suggestion
>of this point. But it was very easy to miss and it leaves you
>wondering what the hell was going on with that particular
>scene.
>
>The ethical question of whether to use the bomb, and how, and
>who should even have an opinion on the matter, was even more
>complicated for Oppenheimer. And while they certainly show him
>being extremely conflicted (and arguably hypocritical), this
>core question would have been a lot clearer if the movie spent
>more time on the variety of views and concerns among the
>physicists. Ultimately all we got was a skin-deep summary of
>who took which side, and even that seemed bizarrely conflated
>with the attempts to unionize.
>
>We also got very little exploration of Oppenheimer's mental
>state in the days before Trinity. He was cracking under the
>pressure and growing erratic and fatalistic.
>
>By the way, "I am become death, destroyer of worlds." Has
>always been misunderstood by the public, and everybody seems
>to be misunderstanding it here. Oppenheimer wasn't saying he
>felt omnipotent like Vishnu there. He was saying he felt like
>the lowly mortal, Arjuna, who was talking to Vishnu. Vishnu
>was telling Arjuna that he's ultimately powerless in
>comparison, Vishnu (the laws of physics) was in charge, and
>that he had no choice but to do his duty and have faith in
>Vishnu's wisdom. The richest part of Oppenheimer's story is
>how he was being manipulated by everyone: Groves, Pash,
>Truman, Szilard, Teller, and ultimately the universe itself.
>In the week of the Trinity test he felt like everyone's
>puppet. Is that a self-serving personal narrative, a deep
>truth about the nature of collective morality, or some of
>both? The movie doesn't really try to explore the question.
>
>I still don't think there was time to explore any of this
>stuff any better while keeping the movie under four hours, at
>least without dropping some other major plot points. (I still
>think they should have left out Strauss and both hearings,
>maybe left them for "Oppenheimer 2", though I can't pretend I
>could have written a script that would have held the story
>together without them.)
>
>All that said, while I do agree that basically every
>characterization in the movie was thin, it was presented with
>enough style to get people to think and talk about
>motivations, which is a victory in itself.
>

  

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stravinskian
Member since Feb 24th 2003
12698 posts
Wed Aug-02-23 11:53 AM

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53. "Well I think the complaint is that it's too much like Ken Burns."
In response to Reply # 0


          

Or more pointedly, too much like a staging of a Wikipedia article. Apart from the music, the editing, and the acting, it was just a string of facts. Drama is an opportunity to tell more than the raw facts. Why did he poison that apple? Why did he squash the Szilard petition? Why did he oppose the superbomb? What was he even saying in the hearing that embarrassed Strauss so much? Why did Jean Tatlock kill herself? Did she even really kill herself?! These kinds of questions have deep and rich answers. Instead of taking those dramatic opportunities, Nolan gives us at best no answers at all, and at worst single sentences that barely register or are easily misconstrued.

I'm not saying it's a bad film (though Brody clearly is). I loved every moment of it. But it misses a lot of opportunities.

With all these raves from other directors about how great it is (Stone and Schrader, particularly), I'm curious what someone like Werner Herzog might have thought of it. Herzog has always emphasized the need to go beyond the raw facts in documentary and biographical work. Just typing that is making me want to see a Herzog documentary about the whole Manhattan project. I have a feeling I'd vehemently dispute a lot of Herzog's characterizations of the story. But I'd love to see him make them. (And I especially would have loved to see Klaus Kinski play Heisenberg!)

  

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stravinskian
Member since Feb 24th 2003
12698 posts
Wed Aug-02-23 12:36 PM

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54. "Gerwig managed to give a soul to a hyper-commercial toy,"
In response to Reply # 53


          


even for people who never had the toy, or even outright hated it. (I haven't seen Barbie yet, but this is what I hear.)

Nolan managed to suck the soul out of the most dangerous event in human history.

And again I'm saying this as someone who loved every minute of it.

  

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rdhull
Charter member
33131 posts
Tue Aug-01-23 11:18 PM

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48. "geezus. Its from Nolan, they wanted Ken Burns"
In response to Reply # 45


  

          

>And as much as I obviously appreciated the movie, I can't
>generally dispute his complaints.
>
>https://www.newyorker.com/culture/the-front-row/oppenheimer-is-ultimately-a-history-channel-movie-with-fancy-editing
>
>Sorry for the paywall. If you've "already read your 5
>articles", or whatever, the gist of the review is in the
>title: apart from all the fancy editing, it's ultimately not
>much richer than a history channel documentary. (I've been
>laughing comparing it to the one about the creation of the
>Chicken McNugget.)
>
>I don't think I share this view entirely, but the complaint
>(as I understand it) is that it squeezes in a thousand little
>facts, but spends very little time exploring people's deeper
>motivations. And the deeper motivations here are very rich and
>complex.
>
>Did he really try to murder his Cambridge advisor? The
>historical case is more complex than presented here, but
>something kinda like that happened, and it did end up
>culminating in Oppenheimer being forced into psychiatric
>treatment. In the movie, there was a one sentence suggestion
>of this point. But it was very easy to miss and it leaves you
>wondering what the hell was going on with that particular
>scene.
>
>The ethical question of whether to use the bomb, and how, and
>who should even have an opinion on the matter, was even more
>complicated for Oppenheimer. And while they certainly show him
>being extremely conflicted (and arguably hypocritical), this
>core question would have been a lot clearer if the movie spent
>more time on the variety of views and concerns among the
>physicists. Ultimately all we got was a skin-deep summary of
>who took which side, and even that seemed bizarrely conflated
>with the attempts to unionize.
>
>We also got very little exploration of Oppenheimer's mental
>state in the days before Trinity. He was cracking under the
>pressure and growing erratic and fatalistic.
>
>By the way, "I am become death, destroyer of worlds." Has
>always been misunderstood by the public, and everybody seems
>to be misunderstanding it here. Oppenheimer wasn't saying he
>felt omnipotent like Vishnu there. He was saying he felt like
>the lowly mortal, Arjuna, who was talking to Vishnu. Vishnu
>was telling Arjuna that he's ultimately powerless in
>comparison, Vishnu (the laws of physics) was in charge, and
>that he had no choice but to do his duty and have faith in
>Vishnu's wisdom. The richest part of Oppenheimer's story is
>how he was being manipulated by everyone: Groves, Pash,
>Truman, Szilard, Teller, and ultimately the universe itself.
>In the week of the Trinity test he felt like everyone's
>puppet. Is that a self-serving personal narrative, a deep
>truth about the nature of collective morality, or some of
>both? The movie doesn't really try to explore the question.
>
>I still don't think there was time to explore any of this
>stuff any better while keeping the movie under four hours, at
>least without dropping some other major plot points. (I still
>think they should have left out Strauss and both hearings,
>maybe left them for "Oppenheimer 2", though I can't pretend I
>could have written a script that would have held the story
>together without them.)
>
>All that said, while I do agree that basically every
>characterization in the movie was thin, it was presented with
>enough style to get people to think and talk about
>motivations, which is a victory in itself.
>

  

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handle
Charter member
18942 posts
Wed Aug-02-23 11:16 AM

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52. "He *really* hits on why I do think this film is worth the hype"
In response to Reply # 45
Wed Aug-02-23 11:31 AM by handle

          

It's a BIO-PIC. The reviewer above wanted more facts - or- more of a character study. Sounds like he got the 'normal' beats of a bio-pic + Nolan's style choices.

15-70 IMAX with 100,000 watt stereo for BIO-PIC!
Bio-pic troupes.
Bio-pic inaccuracies/condense-ment.
INCREDIBLE SOUND AND VSUAL FIEDELTY of actors sitting in a room for 2.5 hours plus 30 minutes of 'action."

I stopped with the bio-pics long ago - I think the last I saw was "The Hurricane.'

It seems like Nolan really cares about the subject and is passionate.

But it sounds like his style and the subject matter don't work for everyone. Even people on other forums who *love* the film say things like "Why was that music so loud when they were talking?" and "They could have trimmed some of this down."


I'll check this out on home video - and there's a promised community sourced version where they are going to try to take out or dramatically lower the music coming shortly after that too.

RLM liked it, but still felt the need to make this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vhqbILnmJ-Q




Note:I'm not mad if you *actually* like the film. But it seems like * alot* of the hype is akin to the Snyder Justice League Cut (which turned out to be trolls and fraud AND people who really wanted to see it.)

------------


Gone: My Discogs collection for The Roots:
http://www.discogs.com/user/tomhayes-roots/collection

  

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bwood
Member since Apr 03rd 2006
8614 posts
Fri Aug-04-23 09:45 PM

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56. "RE: He *really* hits on why I do think this film is worth the hype"
In response to Reply # 52


          

You wrote a lot for a movie you haven't seen.

------------------------------------------
America from 9:00 on: https://youtu.be/GUwLCQU10KQ

  

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handle
Charter member
18942 posts
Fri Aug-04-23 10:01 PM

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57. "."
In response to Reply # 56


          

I wrote 222 words on a reported bio-pic with 100db sound during congressional testimony. 2 minutes to read for an average reader.

So about 180 times shorter than the time you spent to watching the movie.

I get your point: Shut your mouf if you dare QUESITON the movie!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I'll watch it when it hits streaming - and that's another 61 words

------------


Gone: My Discogs collection for The Roots:
http://www.discogs.com/user/tomhayes-roots/collection

  

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bwood
Member since Apr 03rd 2006
8614 posts
Sat Aug-05-23 07:58 AM

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58. "RE: ."
In response to Reply # 57


          

Nigga I don't care if you don't like it or not (which is weird since you haven't seen it), I'm just saying it's a little wild that you wrote a lot on a movie you haven't seen.

Sound was fine at the theater I went to, so it just may be a auditorium by auditorium basis.

------------------------------------------
America from 9:00 on: https://youtu.be/GUwLCQU10KQ

  

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Damali
Member since Sep 12th 2002
35863 posts
Sun Sep-03-23 07:58 PM

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64. "actualy, you didn't get the point."
In response to Reply # 57


          


>I get your point: Shut your mouf if you dare QUESITON the
>movie!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

the point was: Shut your mouf if you HAVEN'T SEEN THE MOVIE.

d


"i do more for both our communities than you'll ever know." - Heinz
"But rest assured, in my luxurious house built on the backs of people darker than me, I am sipping fine scotch and scoffing at how stupid you are." - bshelly

  

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Damali
Member since Sep 12th 2002
35863 posts
Mon Sep-04-23 08:27 AM

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65. "3 things"
In response to Reply # 0


          

- every white man in hollywood was in that film
-RDJ looked like a white Giancarlo Esposito at first, to the point where i didn't even clock that was him
- absolutely excellent film. Nolan never disappoints (ME) and i'm going to see it again. it left me with a heavy heart and wanting to visit Japan again

BONUS: white men will get us all killed.

d

"i do more for both our communities than you'll ever know." - Heinz
"But rest assured, in my luxurious house built on the backs of people darker than me, I am sipping fine scotch and scoffing at how stupid you are." - bshelly

  

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bwood
Member since Apr 03rd 2006
8614 posts
Mon Sep-04-23 10:17 AM

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66. "I agree with you!"
In response to Reply # 65


          

White people are gonna kill us all.

------------------------------------------
America from 9:00 on: https://youtu.be/GUwLCQU10KQ

  

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bwood
Member since Apr 03rd 2006
8614 posts
Sat Jan-06-24 09:00 AM

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67. "Returning to IMAX 70mm January 12th"
In response to Reply # 0


          

Look above for locations. Tickets are going fast.

------------------------------------------
America from 9:00 on: https://youtu.be/GUwLCQU10KQ

  

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bwood
Member since Apr 03rd 2006
8614 posts
Mon Feb-26-24 09:42 AM

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68. "This would make a great IMAX double feature with TENET."
In response to Reply # 0


          

The Oppenhemier and Manhattan Project references got a HUGE reaction during TENET.

These movies have so much in common across the board it's wild.

------------------------------------------
America from 9:00 on: https://youtu.be/GUwLCQU10KQ

  

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Nodima
Member since Jul 30th 2008
15297 posts
Thu Mar-07-24 03:28 AM

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69. "It makes me think about There Will Be Blood frequently as well"
In response to Reply # 68


  

          

They're like polar opposite examinations of this idea of a man who seemingly had no choice but to indulge his ego as far as it would take him, no matter the pile of regrets and dead bodies that would lie in his wake long after he was just another old man.


It's sort of like an essay vs. an epic poem. Blood is clearly far more of an artistic achievement, but in some ways Oppy is a more...readable version of the great power parable.


~~~~~~~~~
"This is the streets, and I am the trap." � Jay Bilas
http://www.popmatters.com/pm/archive/contributor/517
Hip Hop Handbook: http://tinyurl.com/ll4kzz

  

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Frank Longo
Member since Nov 18th 2003
86670 posts
Sun Mar-10-24 10:14 PM

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70. "Best Picture, Director, Actor, Supporting Actor, Editing, Score..."
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

A huge night tonight for them-- and deserving accolades.

My movies: http://russellhainline.com
My movie reviews: https://letterboxd.com/RussellHFilm/
My beer TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@thebeertravelguide

  

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Ceej
Member since Feb 16th 2006
66742 posts
Mon Mar-11-24 08:19 AM

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71. "The editing win right after Godzillas win was......timely "
In response to Reply # 70


  

          

http://i.imgur.com/vPqCzVU.jpg

  

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40thStreetBlack
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Tue Mar-12-24 08:33 PM

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72. "Night Dogg lost."
In response to Reply # 70


          

___________________

Mar-A-Lago delenda est

  

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bwood
Member since Apr 03rd 2006
8614 posts
Wed Mar-13-24 08:24 AM

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73. "Was just thinking..."
In response to Reply # 72


          

... how mad Orbit Established and Basigla must be

------------------------------------------
America from 9:00 on: https://youtu.be/GUwLCQU10KQ

  

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40thStreetBlack
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Thu Mar-14-24 11:30 PM

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74. "if the Manhattan Project harnessed the destructive power of MNight bombs"
In response to Reply # 73


          

they really could have destroyed the world.

___________________

Mar-A-Lago delenda est

  

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bwood
Member since Apr 03rd 2006
8614 posts
Fri Mar-15-24 05:45 AM

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75. "RE: if the Manhattan Project harnessed the destructive power of MNight b..."
In response to Reply # 74


          

🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣

------------------------------------------
America from 9:00 on: https://youtu.be/GUwLCQU10KQ

  

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