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Subject: "Better Call Saul: Season 6" Previous topic | Next topic
Mynoriti
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38818 posts
Tue Apr-19-22 01:39 AM

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"Better Call Saul: Season 6"


  

          

hot out the gate... damn!

speak on it

  

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Topic Outline
Subject Author Message Date ID
OH SHIT! THEY’RE BACK!!! BEST RETURN EVER!!
Apr 19th 2022
1
Yes they are.
Apr 19th 2022
2
Something I didn't understand from the first episode
Apr 19th 2022
3
RE: Something I didn't understand from the first episode
Apr 19th 2022
5
The guy kinda looked like him.
Apr 19th 2022
6
      thanks.that makes more sense
Apr 19th 2022
7
      Thanks.
Apr 19th 2022
8
i think this is the first time i watch the series live
Apr 19th 2022
4
That closing scene with...
Apr 19th 2022
9
this has been Breakng bad for Kim
Apr 19th 2022
10
That seems like a reach ?
Apr 20th 2022
13
      This was my interpretation.
Apr 20th 2022
14
      I think all I meant...
Apr 20th 2022
16
           Haha word - I wouldn't be surprised (and would be psyched !) if they exp...
Apr 20th 2022
17
                Yeah, I'm entirely speculating.
Apr 20th 2022
20
                i didn't interpret it as about her either, but they def could be dead on
Apr 20th 2022
21
I hate that Nacho is screwed
Apr 19th 2022
11
If I'm not mistaken
Apr 21st 2022
31
      He did. I don't think either's fate is inevitable.
Apr 21st 2022
32
           If that is all true
Apr 21st 2022
35
Kim is ruthless when it comes to justice and the goodwill
Apr 20th 2022
12
Most of Jimmy's con targets are trash, not the "honest man"
Apr 20th 2022
15
      he does call back the wolves and sheep line
Apr 20th 2022
18
      Absolutely right.
Apr 20th 2022
19
      I think they've shown a sequence of transitions for Jimmy.
Apr 20th 2022
22
           We've never seen that from Slippn' Jimmy though.
Apr 20th 2022
23
                I was thinking of the bar guys, and the "Kevin Costner" women.
Apr 20th 2022
24
                Yea I think this is it.
Apr 20th 2022
26
      Why do you think Kim asked to come along with him
Apr 20th 2022
30
           Kim's pro-bono = Walt's I'm doing it all for my family
Apr 21st 2022
33
                I think she comes alive with pro bono work too.
Apr 21st 2022
34
                     Slight nitpick: I think it's a different thrill.
Apr 21st 2022
36
                          LOL - very well stated, I agree.
Apr 21st 2022
37
                          right. plus i think she can use one to justify the other
Apr 21st 2022
39
This serves as the unfortunate reminder
Apr 20th 2022
25
Better than waiting another year a la Sopranos, Breaking Bad, Mad Men, e...
Apr 20th 2022
27
I like it in a way
Apr 20th 2022
28
      Yea by all accounts it's a short break.
Apr 20th 2022
29
           These episodes started in early Spring.
Apr 21st 2022
38
Can someone explain the whole safe situation to me ?
Apr 22nd 2022
40
Gus doesn't care to protect Nacho. Mike wants to protect him.
Apr 22nd 2022
41
weren't they the same ID's?
Apr 22nd 2022
42
      I just watched it again. You're right.
Apr 22nd 2022
44
           Thanks y'all. Then obviously they replaced the safe so no one would noti...
Apr 22nd 2022
45
They did it to set up Nacho, to lead the cartel to him,
Apr 23rd 2022
53
saw someone point out that Lalo calling the old folks home
Apr 22nd 2022
43
The attention to detail in this show smh.
Apr 22nd 2022
46
Oh shit I hadn't realized that.
Apr 22nd 2022
47
This might be nitpicking
Apr 22nd 2022
48
I just found the scene (Ep. 1, 50:00)
Apr 22nd 2022
49
RE: I just found the scene (Ep. 1, 50:00)
Apr 22nd 2022
51
ah.. thanks for clarifying.
Apr 22nd 2022
52
This.
Apr 23rd 2022
55
That’s very realistic, actually
Apr 23rd 2022
54
RE: saw someone point out that Lalo calling the old folks home
Apr 22nd 2022
50
Super obvious reference...
Apr 23rd 2022
56
Ahhh very good !
Apr 25th 2022
57
shit was that a rosebud???
May 16th 2022
143
      The first time Jimmy & Kim scammed anybody...
May 19th 2022
185
Hey, you fucking pricks, hurry the fuck up and watch this piece of shit
Apr 25th 2022
58
LOL
Apr 25th 2022
60
      TOO SOON, FUCK YOU YOU FUCKING @&$%#*!??!!!!!!!!!!!
Apr 25th 2022
61
Yo... Hurry. The. Fuck. Up
Apr 25th 2022
59
SPOILERS
Apr 25th 2022
62
Gracias
Apr 25th 2022
63
Also, this was the right choice
Apr 25th 2022
64
Naw. It doesn’t fly, especially with how easily he busted out
Apr 25th 2022
66
Agreed
Apr 26th 2022
68
This is the important part:
Apr 26th 2022
69
Pretty much
Apr 26th 2022
70
Yeah I don’t think his story ends here
Apr 26th 2022
72
going after pops is petty at this point
Apr 26th 2022
75
Yup, plus he told Gus he'd do whatever Gus needed him to
Apr 26th 2022
76
Phone call.
Apr 26th 2022
74
      It was the meal for me
Apr 26th 2022
83
           Word word.
Apr 26th 2022
87
It's amazing how much tension they can extract from simple intrigue
Apr 25th 2022
65
Seeing as how Kim choose to Break Bad similar to Nacho
Apr 26th 2022
67
I think she winds up ordering a Hoover Vac.
Apr 26th 2022
71
      Good catch !
Apr 26th 2022
73
      the *only * reason i'm hesitant on this
Apr 26th 2022
77
      I think they could find ways around that.
Apr 26th 2022
79
      Yea, Bob had a heart attack between shoots
Apr 26th 2022
84
      Great point.
Apr 26th 2022
81
      Again, I think if it serves the story, they have an obligation to figure...
Apr 26th 2022
85
      That's true, but I imagine they could do it without Forster.
Apr 27th 2022
99
      Thus far, Kim has shown a reluctance
Apr 26th 2022
82
           Fair point but I think if it's either that or death she'd take the Hoove...
Apr 26th 2022
88
Am I alone in not caring about the Saul/Kim storyline?
Apr 26th 2022
78
For this episode I completely forgot about Saul and Kim
Apr 26th 2022
80
I mean the entire series explains it haha.
Apr 26th 2022
90
      yeah i guess so lol
Apr 27th 2022
98
not caring is a bridge too far. I'm more engaged by the cartel/crime stu...
Apr 26th 2022
86
Yea I think you're alone lol.
Apr 26th 2022
89
In past seasons, Saul's shenanigans measured up to the cartel stuff to m...
Apr 26th 2022
91
      Kim is getting off on pro bono lawyer work while fucking over big timers
Apr 26th 2022
92
           You covered what I was gonna say.
Apr 26th 2022
93
Funny, I'm kinda the opposite.
Apr 26th 2022
94
This is why the death of Nacho was premature in my opinion.
Apr 26th 2022
95
Yea exactly. We've lived in that world for 15 years.
Apr 27th 2022
97
I dunno, the twins are still pretty terrifying to me.
Apr 27th 2022
100
the way season 5 ended….I get it
Apr 26th 2022
96
I've slowly moved into this territory.
May 11th 2022
119
For me Saul / Kim is the more interesting story.
Jul 26th 2022
355
      Likewise. It's all very relatable.
Jul 26th 2022
359
Ep 4 was one 'holy shit' moment after another!
May 02nd 2022
101
great direction by Seehorn too
May 03rd 2022
102
      The Howard shit was so much fun. But that nagged at me too
May 03rd 2022
104
      The great meta moment in the episode
May 03rd 2022
105
Fun ep. they ain’t slick though, I ain’t forget
May 03rd 2022
103
that intro was great
May 04th 2022
110
They went over the top with Saul/Kim’s latest caper
May 03rd 2022
106
it was pretty goofy
May 03rd 2022
107
Kim Mike meet was stellar / What's Lalo's play?
May 03rd 2022
108
Every scene I’m like where the fock
May 03rd 2022
109
felt like this episode could've gone another half hour...'cause I'm curi...
May 10th 2022
111
They sure set up a lot
May 10th 2022
112
I'm guessing Mike's guys clock...
May 10th 2022
114
      Great catch! I didn’t consider that, but I think you’re dead on.
May 10th 2022
115
      that makes sense
May 10th 2022
116
      Yeah, that's what I guessed too
May 11th 2022
122
           RE: Yeah, that's what I guessed too
May 11th 2022
126
           ANOTHER possibility..Mike told Kim to ignore the tail
May 13th 2022
134
2 more episodes.
May 10th 2022
113
I had to do some reading to remember how Lalo found Margarethe
May 10th 2022
117
Thanks for this.
May 16th 2022
139
There's something written on that gift
May 11th 2022
121
      "In Liebe, deine Jungs."
May 11th 2022
124
           will it be Kai who gives up the goods?
May 11th 2022
127
                Kinda has to be
May 12th 2022
130
                Kai will ask to sign up and join the cartel.
May 12th 2022
133
This first half of the season has been a letdown.
May 11th 2022
118
understandable. I'm choosing to trust the process
May 11th 2022
120
I think im pissed they split the final season in half
May 11th 2022
128
      the break is only 6 weeks
May 12th 2022
129
           Yes. They haven't let us down once in 15 years.
May 16th 2022
140
I think I'm somewhat in your camp.
May 11th 2022
125
I think the endgame for the series is Lalo tracking down Jimmy in...
May 11th 2022
123
Interesting, execept that he mentions Ignacio too.
May 12th 2022
131
      i'd say they're bound to it somewhat
May 12th 2022
132
      Agreed. I’m speaking in terms of guessing whether Lalo is still alive ...
May 16th 2022
142
           ahh, yeah i misunderstood. i think Gus's confidence level alone
May 16th 2022
144
                Yeah, Lalo won't make it to the BB era.
May 16th 2022
145
                     Yup. Joaquin Salamanca was the last one
May 16th 2022
146
                     Maybe he was alive in season 2 of BB
May 16th 2022
147
                          ha.. nice point. possibly?
May 16th 2022
148
                               RE: ha.. nice point. possibly?
May 16th 2022
149
                     Oh excellent call.
May 17th 2022
156
      Him mentioning Nacho also tracks.
May 16th 2022
141
So, has Gus considered the possibility that Lalo is in Germany?
May 13th 2022
135
Yeah, Spice Curl orderer likely saved the empire
May 13th 2022
136
True.
May 13th 2022
137
Absolutely
May 13th 2022
138
Can't lie, I'm getting a kinda impatient now
May 17th 2022
150
first time in a long time I was totally caught off guard a TV ep was ove...
May 17th 2022
151
i'm definitely curious what the play is
May 17th 2022
165
Personally, I love the slow burn.
May 17th 2022
152
I like the slow burn too, but the storyline isn't all that convincing an...
May 17th 2022
158
      Nah, nothing so explicit.
May 17th 2022
161
           Gotcha. Good explanation, I get what you're saying.
May 17th 2022
162
                Yeah and I get why so many are becoming impatient.
May 17th 2022
163
I'm hoping
May 17th 2022
153
Yeah they were a bit too deliberate in having Saul clock it
May 17th 2022
160
      At whim, I watched a breakdown for this week's episode
May 19th 2022
192
Yeah I didn't enjoy this episode at all
May 17th 2022
155
i *thnk* so?
May 17th 2022
164
      RE: i *thnk* so?
May 17th 2022
166
           yeah i forgot Jimmy was looking at the photos
May 17th 2022
168
           Oh great call.
May 17th 2022
169
Haha yea this episode made me think "maybe this storyline *is* stale"
May 17th 2022
157
      Exactly. That's why it's so confusing.
May 18th 2022
174
Giancarlo used some great camera angles
May 17th 2022
154
Speaking of the opening scene @ Howard's house ...
May 17th 2022
159
      i don't think it was but i'm not 100%
May 17th 2022
167
           I'll have to go back and watch each scene, it's killing me hah.
May 17th 2022
170
                I actually think you might be right on this.
May 17th 2022
171
                     IIRC, they showed that exact same driveway view last nite !
May 17th 2022
172
                          Update: it is absolutely *not* the same house lol.
May 19th 2022
186
They literally could have made the last 3 eps into one episode.
May 18th 2022
173
This storyline is actually making me root for Howard over Saul
May 18th 2022
175
Haha right ! Christ.
May 18th 2022
176
Yeah, been saying that for a minute. I mean Howard's kinda douchey
May 18th 2022
177
True. Only thing giving me confidence.
May 18th 2022
179
I think that’s the point
May 18th 2022
180
      Yeah that was the only thing I could get from it.
May 18th 2022
181
      To this point tho, Kim's been more gung ho about the plan ...
May 19th 2022
187
           I think Kim gets disbarred
May 19th 2022
190
                Hm yea that's a great call. She's been more frontline in the plan ...
May 19th 2022
191
      ^^^ Good point.
May 18th 2022
182
           Yes yes yes this.
May 19th 2022
188
           I was missing it too.
May 19th 2022
193
           RE: ^^^ Good point.
May 19th 2022
194
                Yea I'd agree that both motivations are kinda weak.
May 19th 2022
195
                It definitely won't be that simple.
May 19th 2022
197
                     Right. I trust them.
May 19th 2022
198
                     I agree. But it would also be dull if it was...
May 19th 2022
199
                          Agreed.
May 19th 2022
200
i absolutely care how the howard thing plays out, but i agree on the pac...
May 18th 2022
178
Anybody else sick of these pretentious ass intros?
May 18th 2022
183
LOL love 'em
May 19th 2022
184
Haha nah I love them. I went back and watched the ep1 intro last nite ..
May 19th 2022
189
that broken glass in the desert hit different....
May 19th 2022
196
I'm such a non speculative person that a recap pod blindsided me
May 20th 2022
201
Holy shit
May 23rd 2022
202
Mother fucker!
May 23rd 2022
204
RE: Holy shit
May 23rd 2022
206
Meh. Shocking ending, but meh
May 23rd 2022
203
It's not really about Howard though
May 23rd 2022
208
exactly
May 23rd 2022
210
Another potential layer of guilt for Kim
May 24th 2022
215
Oh shit I forgot about that. Whoa.
May 24th 2022
225
Yes.
May 24th 2022
224
This is exactly why I loved that scene tho.
May 24th 2022
223
      Exactly.
May 24th 2022
230
One thing I didn't understand.
May 23rd 2022
205
It was the static
May 23rd 2022
207
He heard the clicks on the phone.
May 23rd 2022
209
      Thanks.
May 24th 2022
216
      Yep I always have subtitles on and even then it took me a second lol.
May 24th 2022
226
      the roach confused me
May 25th 2022
238
           Oh shit yeah! I hadn't noticed that.
May 25th 2022
239
           Oh wow.
May 26th 2022
246
now I can see why they
May 24th 2022
211
I’m glad the Nacho character was killed off early
May 24th 2022
212
Lalo has tipped over the "Omar jumps from fifth floor" territory
May 24th 2022
214
Exactly.
May 24th 2022
220
      Well, we don't know how brutal it was.
May 24th 2022
221
           Lalo turning into Jason Voorhees and cutting the German’s
May 24th 2022
222
                Oh shit was there a hockey mask?! I missed that.
May 24th 2022
229
                     See post #203
May 24th 2022
231
i hear you but the BB universe is not exactly dipped in realism
May 25th 2022
234
      Couldn't agree more.
May 25th 2022
236
I've said it before, these guys can yank tension out of an empty bag
May 24th 2022
213
Yea I'm with you.
May 24th 2022
228
Did Mike pull his guys off Saul’s spot?
May 24th 2022
217
I don’t think he mentioned Saul’s place specifically, but yeah
May 24th 2022
218
good catch. yeah he did
May 24th 2022
219
Oh word good call.
May 24th 2022
227
"We're pulling everyone off the low-priority targets"
May 25th 2022
233
      i thought this is where they were going as well
May 25th 2022
235
           Yeah, really masterful writing.
May 25th 2022
237
                i'm glad i didn't know about this
May 25th 2022
240
                     I only saw it a few weeks ago.
May 25th 2022
241
                     Me too, christ.
May 26th 2022
247
They're ruining this show.
May 25th 2022
232
Maybe that was a bit harsh. I'm just underwhelmed.
May 25th 2022
242
I made the (wise) choice to wait and binge.
May 26th 2022
250
Lalo is De Niro in Cape Fear now.
May 25th 2022
243
      Lmao. Perfect comparison.
May 26th 2022
244
I know folks raining on Lalo, but let's think about it
May 26th 2022
245
He's the Salamanca's Mike.
May 26th 2022
248
Yup. Mike's a geriatric action hero
May 26th 2022
251
      LOL
May 26th 2022
253
      Exactly right.
May 26th 2022
254
           mugfucker got blown up and straightened his tie, man
May 26th 2022
255
                lol
May 27th 2022
257
He shot a rich somebody in the head in a living room....
May 26th 2022
249
after hearing rich somebody talk about his public downward spiral
May 27th 2022
258
      and if you're Lalo, NOT killing Howard is not an option
May 27th 2022
259
           very true, and another thing
May 27th 2022
260
I see Lalo as the badass that Gus is at the end of BB
May 26th 2022
252
Yeah, I'd go back to some of my posts + say it doesn't HURT the show
May 27th 2022
256
this season is pretty boring & lazy imo
May 31st 2022
261
why is there such a big gap between airing episodes 7 and 8?
Jun 26th 2022
262
nvm this is fucking stupid:
Jun 26th 2022
263
      Beyond all that - AMC gets an extra 7.99 from me
Jun 28th 2022
264
Episode 8: that was intense!
Jul 11th 2022
265
This motherfucking show!
Jul 11th 2022
266
What do you mean here ?
Jul 12th 2022
270
Two shots in particular.
Jul 12th 2022
273
      Damn this is great. Thanks for this. I'm gonna watch again with all this...
Jul 12th 2022
274
it definitely left me feeling some way
Jul 12th 2022
275
      Too nitpicky IMO lol.
Jul 12th 2022
278
      beat me to it. this is WAY more plausible than the trunk scene
Jul 12th 2022
281
           Yea exactly. I mean it's all *possible*, just not likely to all fall int...
Jul 12th 2022
283
           i mean let's not forget Gus saw Lalo on camera enter the laundromat
Aug 08th 2022
472
      That scene was a rollercoaster of emotions and game theory.
Jul 12th 2022
280
           EXACTLY exactly exactly exactly.
Jul 12th 2022
284
           you nailed the Kim and Jimmy stuff
Jul 12th 2022
285
                Yea I really think that's the direction they are likely to go.
Jul 12th 2022
286
                Personally I think Gus's Eladio rant was essential.
Jul 12th 2022
287
                     Yea I agree with you.
Jul 12th 2022
288
                     doing the rant was essential
Jul 12th 2022
289
What a nosedive. I’ll provide more in-depth commentary
Jul 11th 2022
267
I think it's an eager critic that conflates lack of stakes with lack of ...
Jul 12th 2022
268
      I understand the appeal of having him die in Germany
Jul 12th 2022
282
So it's pretty much a given Kim will get vacuumed, correct?
Jul 12th 2022
269
All the trailers on AMC were about Gene ...
Jul 12th 2022
271
It's a given that she survives, not necessarily vacuumed, though.
Jul 12th 2022
272
Lalo goes from being this charming, cunning drug lord
Jul 12th 2022
276
RE: Lalo goes from being this charming, cunning drug lord
Jul 14th 2022
307
That ep was better than the first half of Season 6 combined. FLAMES
Jul 12th 2022
277
Yea agreed. The payoff has been worth it thus far.
Jul 12th 2022
279
I've been noticing a lot of little parallels with Breaking Bad this seas...
Jul 12th 2022
290
Oh I think a lot of that is definitely intentional.
Jul 12th 2022
291
Also Kim was sent to knock and shoot
Jul 13th 2022
295
Oh yeah! Also, with regard to guns...
Jul 14th 2022
300
      Lol yup. we were joking that Kim was gonna get the call
Jul 14th 2022
301
           And there were so many layers to that chess game.
Jul 14th 2022
302
Striking similarity between scenes in Waterworks and Ozymandias.
Aug 09th 2022
520
Satisfying breakdown from one of the writers of this ep ...
Jul 12th 2022
292
Yeah that was a great interview.
Jul 14th 2022
303
      Haha I'm very much doing the same.
Jul 14th 2022
305
No way will Kim be able to carry the weight
Jul 13th 2022
293
interesting because we know Saul can
Jul 13th 2022
294
      The Nets or Knicks make the most sense
Jul 14th 2022
296
           wrong board.
Jul 14th 2022
297
           Yeah I was gonna say
Jul 19th 2022
314
The new significance of young-Kim's shoplifting scene...
Jul 14th 2022
298
Damn - this makes a ton of sense. I could see it going this way.
Jul 14th 2022
299
That said, I hope (and expect) that it won't be quite that simple.
Jul 14th 2022
306
Great read, it’s a really interesting character
Jul 14th 2022
304
Didn’t Howard tell her this?
Jul 14th 2022
308
      I'm talking about Jimmy.
Jul 14th 2022
309
           Gotcha
Jul 15th 2022
310
Best episode of the season hands down!
Jul 18th 2022
311
I feel like Jimmy at Howard Hamlin's memorial.
Jul 18th 2022
312
Heavy, dark, depressing episode
Jul 18th 2022
313
great episode
Jul 19th 2022
315
BOOM
Jul 19th 2022
316
i think you nailed this
Jul 20th 2022
325
      To me it's one of the only (or few) things you can draw through the OG
Jul 23rd 2022
344
           Damn. Great analysis - thanks.
Jul 25th 2022
346
If not for the flash forwards, a great place for the series to end.
Jul 19th 2022
317
There probably won't be much Walt and Jesse
Jul 19th 2022
319
      I think you got the time line right
Jul 19th 2022
320
           You brought up something I was thinking about
Jul 19th 2022
323
                I think they made the right call
Jul 19th 2022
324
Kim became a scumbag in the end.
Jul 19th 2022
318
i wouldn't say that but i think she has somewhat of an addict's mindset
Jul 20th 2022
326
      She literally swooped in and convinced Howard's wife that he was on drug...
Jul 20th 2022
327
           Well, there was a lot of remorse.
Jul 20th 2022
328
           no remorse??
Jul 20th 2022
329
           I guess i needed more of a Kim breakdown. Idk
Jul 20th 2022
330
                *shrug* she gave up her entire life
Jul 21st 2022
331
                ^ right.
Jul 21st 2022
335
                Going back to post #277 in here, looks like ...
Jul 21st 2022
334
                I've been down on this season at point but not for this.
Jul 23rd 2022
345
           That was sheer self-preservation.
Jul 21st 2022
337
           yeah she also saw Jimmy's defense didn't move the needle
Jul 21st 2022
338
                Yep. IMO it needed to be grimey. The only out is Howard’s spiral
Jul 21st 2022
340
           that was an interesting choice
Aug 08th 2022
473
                That is another interesting wrinkle in this story.
Aug 16th 2022
575
MASTERFUL execution.
Jul 19th 2022
321
Yeah, Gus's scene was the saddest of them all.
Jul 19th 2022
322
Again, why did Saul buy a a dust filter for a Hoover Max Extract 60?
Jul 21st 2022
332
I dunno, I still think it was mostly the Heisenberg stuff.
Jul 21st 2022
333
THE FEDS!
Jul 21st 2022
336
Yup
Jul 21st 2022
339
      Yeah, the Feds dead confiscate his possessions...
Jul 21st 2022
341
Skyler knows about Saul’s involvement in the laundering schemes
Jul 22nd 2022
342
      yeah, all this too
Jul 22nd 2022
343
Holy shit Gene Takavic is my goddamn hero!
Jul 25th 2022
347
Oh I feel the division already. This ep can suck a thousand dicks
Jul 26th 2022
349
Haha, I'll admit I have a fetish for subverted expectations.
Jul 26th 2022
351
      Fuck that, fuck you, fuck Vince, fuck this show, I’m out
Jul 26th 2022
362
           Lol, nah, you have just as much right to be mad as I do to celebrate the...
Jul 26th 2022
363
It was a great episode
Jul 26th 2022
354
30 minutes into this ep. This ending better be nothing short of mind-blo...
Jul 26th 2022
348
Not reusing the same actor for the taxi driver
Jul 26th 2022
350
Yeah, the previous actor made me genuinely uneasy.
Jul 26th 2022
352
Thanks for that added info.
Jul 26th 2022
353
      Doesn't look like he put on a ton of weight at all ?
Jul 26th 2022
356
           Oh I would have preferred the continuity too.
Jul 26th 2022
357
           Yea I got you. And agree.
Jul 26th 2022
358
           I don't know if you watched We Own This City
Jul 26th 2022
361
                I haven't seen it yet, but everything I've read says he's a great actor.
Jul 26th 2022
364
           When I get home tonight
Jul 26th 2022
360
           Word fair enough.
Jul 26th 2022
365
           There aren't a ton of clips of the show on Youtube
Jul 26th 2022
370
                he didn't look much heavier, and considering Todd was about 100lbs
Jul 27th 2022
375
                     This is probably bordering on sacrilege
Aug 02nd 2022
432
Yeah, it took me out of it for a bit too.
Jul 26th 2022
366
that really bothered me tbh
Jul 26th 2022
367
      It definitely feels weird.
Jul 26th 2022
369
I was laughing out loud when dude was just lying on the floor.
Jul 26th 2022
368
And Gene fake-moaning to give him some more time lol
Jul 29th 2022
382
Couldn't remember the cabbie character at all, good for y'all.
Jul 27th 2022
371
cabbie character was recast so that may be a factor
Jul 27th 2022
372
I was curious about the mall
Jul 27th 2022
373
That's unfortunate to read.
Jul 27th 2022
374
      It’s always been NM
Jul 27th 2022
376
Ohmygod ohmygod! Call 402-342-9288
Jul 27th 2022
377
Lol I guess word got out. It gives a busy signal now.
Jul 27th 2022
379
yea heard it on one of the pods. pretty cool
Jul 28th 2022
381
Haha, or William Oakley and Associates: 505-247-2464
Aug 03rd 2022
465
Whoa, and a possible big spoiler from Internet detective work:
Jul 27th 2022
378
Err, waitaminute...
Jul 28th 2022
380
next ep is titled "Breaking Bad"
Jul 29th 2022
383
Yup. There's a chance that they might be fucking with us again, though.
Aug 01st 2022
384
Wooooow.
Aug 01st 2022
385
After a night to chew: Man, this was a dark story.
Aug 02nd 2022
391
The black and white shit worked for those short glimpses
Aug 01st 2022
386
Yeah, thatscene was boring. That was some DVD extras bullshit
Aug 02nd 2022
I loved “thatscene”
Aug 02nd 2022
390
Lol, she shoulda said something about how long Huell was locked in there...
Aug 02nd 2022
392
This is a rare moment I'm glad I had a hint of what's coming
Aug 02nd 2022
394
This fucking show is not good for my mental health😂
Aug 02nd 2022
387
ur replies got me roflmao
Aug 02nd 2022
388
      No shit.
Aug 02nd 2022
389
i thought the black and white scenes were an intentional device
Aug 02nd 2022
404
Agreed. And it doesn't bother me at all.
Aug 02nd 2022
406
ehh, 'Gene' in B&W is a pretty established thing
Aug 02nd 2022
443
      It works for me in one format, just not the other🤷🏻‍♂️
Aug 03rd 2022
453
Curious about one minor detail from last night:
Aug 02nd 2022
393
I think Victor was the alias
Aug 02nd 2022
395
"Viktor with a k" was how he described his name to Ken Wins, way back.
Aug 02nd 2022
396
RE: I think Victor was the alias
Aug 02nd 2022
400
That was my thinking too.
Aug 02nd 2022
405
RE: Curious about one minor detail from last night:
Aug 02nd 2022
398
Oh true. That prolly makes more sense.
Aug 02nd 2022
407
felt like it was just a character detail more than anything else
Aug 02nd 2022
435
I enjoyed it
Aug 02nd 2022
397
This is exactly it.
Aug 02nd 2022
409
      I loved last week
Aug 02nd 2022
416
           I think it's both.
Aug 02nd 2022
418
           I think it's definitely more the first than the second
Aug 02nd 2022
420
Man y'all are crazy lol. What were you expecting ?
Aug 02nd 2022
399
I was totally underwhelmed by the end of Breaking Bad at first.
Aug 02nd 2022
401
I can still enjoy something I didn’t expect
Aug 02nd 2022
402
Why should the Breaking Bad stuff be any more than that?
Aug 02nd 2022
442
      RE: Why should the Breaking Bad stuff be any more than that?
Aug 03rd 2022
451
i honestly dont know what to expect at this point.
Aug 02nd 2022
403
That's what I'm saying
Aug 02nd 2022
411
^ right.
Aug 02nd 2022
412
I think there's a chance Gene wants to get caught.
Aug 02nd 2022
415
Agreed.
Aug 02nd 2022
419
Yeah, this
Aug 02nd 2022
417
I've been fine with this season and the stories. Only thing I'll say...
Aug 02nd 2022
421
A compromise of sorts for the last season(s)
Aug 02nd 2022
408
IMO clean is boring.
Aug 02nd 2022
410
Just so I'm clear
Aug 02nd 2022
413
      Ahh got it. Misunderstood you.
Aug 02nd 2022
414
From what I understand, splitting the season was not in the original...
Aug 02nd 2022
422
Ah, if only Saul had listened to Mike
Aug 02nd 2022
423
How did Genejimmysaul get in touch with Francesca for that call ?
Aug 02nd 2022
424
Way back in season 4 there was a flashforward to the day Saul gets disap...
Aug 02nd 2022
425
Oh yea !! I do remember now - thanks
Aug 02nd 2022
426
      I guess we don't know, but I also assume it was pretty immediate.
Aug 02nd 2022
427
           Word yea. And if it's that immediate, that means ...
Aug 02nd 2022
428
                Two months, in fact. Haha.
Aug 02nd 2022
429
                     Yup, that combover was doing some heavy work.
Aug 02nd 2022
430
                          Oh yea haha.
Aug 02nd 2022
431
I was wondering the same
Aug 02nd 2022
441
i fucking loved this epsidode *shrug*
Aug 02nd 2022
433
Yea same. And even Jesse wasn't all that jarring for me.
Aug 02nd 2022
434
      for me it was more his voice than his look
Aug 02nd 2022
436
      I noticed it in the voice too
Aug 02nd 2022
437
           lol yeah def not fat todd territory
Aug 02nd 2022
440
      Lighting and scene/costume choice.
Aug 02nd 2022
444
Was I the only one looking for a bag of Funyuns in the RV?
Aug 02nd 2022
438
the florida call
Aug 02nd 2022
439
Whoops, you might have implanted the thoughts that led to my post 445.
Aug 02nd 2022
446
my very un-thought-out Kim theory
Aug 05th 2022
467
      ohh WOW
Aug 05th 2022
468
      Yeah, there have been a surprising number of references
Aug 05th 2022
470
      Oh wow yea.
Aug 08th 2022
471
Second thoughts: maybe Kim wasn't on that call.
Aug 02nd 2022
445
My initial impression was he couldn’t get ahold of her
Aug 02nd 2022
447
I just saw the director confirmed we'll hear the conversation eventually...
Aug 02nd 2022
448
Mike's dead at this point
Aug 02nd 2022
449
      Yeah but I mean he could have found her years ago.
Aug 02nd 2022
450
           ahh gotcha
Aug 03rd 2022
452
are we getting 2 more "Gene"s?
Aug 03rd 2022
454
I’m pulling for him to pull a DB Cooper and live happily ever after wi...
Aug 03rd 2022
455
I'm guessing so, with a few flashbacks.
Aug 03rd 2022
466
If you don’t realize by now that Saul is a piece of shit and deserves
Aug 03rd 2022
456
bruh
Aug 03rd 2022
457
Just like a sermon to undermine it's own message
Aug 03rd 2022
458
Mike went to Nacho’s father and said as much.
Aug 03rd 2022
460
      None of that changes anything.
Aug 03rd 2022
461
Con todo respeto. No me parece que esto merezca una respuesta.
Aug 03rd 2022
459
Jesse met Andrea bc he was selling her meth at an NA meeting
Aug 03rd 2022
462
Right, we’re sympathetic to Jesse, Mike, and Nacho for a couple reason...
Aug 03rd 2022
463
Agreed on Saul. But they're all various pieces of shit.
Aug 05th 2022
469
Ahh, waterworks could refer to sprinklers!
Aug 03rd 2022
464
Boom! What did I tell you guys.
Aug 08th 2022
474
I'm such a sucker for cops bickering their way into a crime, lol
Aug 09th 2022
475
lol me too. Bumbling idiots.
Aug 09th 2022
482
Holy fuck. 25 minutes in and this is gut wrenching. This is serious work...
Aug 09th 2022
476
Well, in that case...
Aug 09th 2022
477
This has been such a beautiful, tragic, rewarding story.
Aug 09th 2022
478
Oh, and a cute thing with the color...
Aug 09th 2022
479
Yea good call. I noticed that but didn't register it. Great stuff.
Aug 09th 2022
484
Yea same ! Thought the same thing last nite.
Aug 09th 2022
483
great episode
Aug 09th 2022
487
The names Marion and Jeff...
Aug 09th 2022
480
An episode with a small wart here and there, but still much better than ...
Aug 09th 2022
481
What were the warts ?
Aug 09th 2022
485
      I don't think they were clear whether she's married or not.
Aug 09th 2022
488
           No ring on her finger, he left her house at nite ...
Aug 09th 2022
489
                Ah, I didn't check for a ring. Good catch.
Aug 09th 2022
490
                Hm yea that's a possibility I suppose.
Aug 09th 2022
494
                     On second viewing, I'm coming around to your original view.
Aug 09th 2022
519
                          LOLOL
Aug 15th 2022
535
                I'll take your word for it.
Aug 09th 2022
491
                Yea I assumed marriage at first too, but on rewatch I looked for ring et...
Aug 09th 2022
495
                "So she has a boyfriend, Glen ..."
Aug 09th 2022
496
                at first i was thinking they might not even be a couple
Aug 09th 2022
512
                Personally I thought that scene was one of the most important.
Aug 09th 2022
497
                     Yea I thought the scene was excellent, as well as fun.
Aug 09th 2022
498
                     Yeah, that's an insightful point about Kim and Jesse. Regarding Sepinwal...
Aug 10th 2022
530
                          Oh wow !
Aug 15th 2022
536
                     I thought Jesse's purpose
Aug 09th 2022
511
                          Yeah I think that scene will be endlessly analyzed.
Aug 09th 2022
516
                          Honestly, I think that would have been kind of gross
Aug 10th 2022
522
                               Agree a trillion percent.
Aug 15th 2022
537
                Kim leaving at night. Interesting.
Aug 09th 2022
493
                Lmaooooo
Aug 09th 2022
501
                Regarding marriage...
Aug 09th 2022
504
                     Haha I don't think it's silly at all.
Aug 09th 2022
509
Yep. Yep. Yep ! Yep. Yep ! Yep.
Aug 09th 2022
486
Am I the only one who kept seeing that Banker's dad?
Aug 09th 2022
500
First things first...
Aug 09th 2022
492
Yeah, I don't know what's coming in the finale either.
Aug 09th 2022
499
Great analysis. Can't wait.
Aug 09th 2022
503
if next week
Aug 09th 2022
502
Please let Kim catch 2 bullets to her Medulla
Aug 09th 2022
505
^ Just inspected some photos with a weird liquid on them.
Aug 09th 2022
506
You have a hyper-aggressive, over the top hatred for Kim
Aug 10th 2022
523
      No, she went to the DA. she gave an affidavit.
Aug 10th 2022
525
      I missed that. Nothing else I said changes. You want her *dead*
Aug 10th 2022
527
      I think this is more likely than you're giving it credit for.
Aug 15th 2022
538
           I’m speaking specifically to his particularly intense hatred for Kim
Aug 15th 2022
543
Haha I actually thought this episode was the finale
Aug 09th 2022
507
Haha I could be okay with that.
Aug 09th 2022
517
There are tease commercials for the upcoming finale
Aug 09th 2022
508
There was also a teaser about a car crash, his voice shaky.
Aug 09th 2022
510
If you're thinking about what I'm thinking about, it wasn't a crash.
Aug 09th 2022
513
      Oh right ! Thanks for the reminder. Glad I brought this up lol.
Aug 09th 2022
515
RE: There are tease commercials for the upcoming finale
Aug 09th 2022
514
      Even if they did, they wouldn’t have found anything, because the guy
Aug 09th 2022
518
      I think the cleaner runs too tight a ship.
Aug 10th 2022
524
When Kim is in Florida, she has a clear Nebraska accent.
Aug 09th 2022
521
Cheryl’s disgust with Kim when Kim
Aug 10th 2022
526
RE: Cheryl’s disgust with Kim when Kim
Aug 10th 2022
528
      Well, the difference is Mike didn’t pose to be some righteous figure
Aug 10th 2022
529
           Kim Wexler would eat this bullshit charge up in preliminary hearings..
Aug 13th 2022
531
                ^^^I agree with your last paragraph.
Aug 14th 2022
533
The divorce signing scene was helpful
Aug 13th 2022
532
Didn't we all see that coming tho ?
Aug 15th 2022
539
Here we go! First month free at my Squat Cobbler Onlyfans!
Aug 15th 2022
534
A theory just occurred to me...
Aug 15th 2022
540
My cucumber water is ready, my nachos are ready and I am going to
Aug 15th 2022
541
ha i was trying to think of a good dinner to watch the show with
Aug 16th 2022
565
Lol I got a Cinnabon, too.
Aug 16th 2022
569
Brilliant show. Brilliant universe. Brilliant ending.
Aug 15th 2022
542
Great ending. I’m sad that it’s over. On my GOAT short list
Aug 15th 2022
544
Lol, I wasn't sure who Peter Diseth was at first.
Aug 16th 2022
570
God, God, God!
Aug 15th 2022
545
I’m here for you!
Aug 15th 2022
548
WACK. WACK AS HELL.
Aug 15th 2022
546
Yes. Yes you are.
Aug 15th 2022
547
We agree to disagree. He was given 86 years in prison and basically
Aug 15th 2022
550
      Can you remove the spoiler in the header?
Aug 15th 2022
551
How does that let everyone else off the hook??
Aug 16th 2022
558
Everyone else is off the hook because they are dead,
Aug 16th 2022
560
      I dont agree with Jesse having immunity
Aug 16th 2022
562
           I highly doubt that, since everything was taped.
Aug 16th 2022
567
                The nazis had Jesse's confession tape though
Aug 16th 2022
581
                     Damn. That’s right.
Aug 16th 2022
587
                     Chances are they found it at the compound though
Aug 16th 2022
589
                          yeah I thought about that. hard to say
Aug 17th 2022
593
the Weebay comparison is weird, man
Aug 16th 2022
579
Great ending, though I didn't quite follow how the...
Aug 15th 2022
549
Remember Jimmy told the DA all he needed was one juror
Aug 15th 2022
552
Is that really an agree/disagree proposition though? Spoilers
Aug 15th 2022
555
      Agreed. I also think the writers, rightfully, went a long way to ...
Aug 16th 2022
583
           I agree with all of this, especially the ending being fitting for the ch...
Aug 17th 2022
598
Smoke, mirrors, and risk management. SPOILERS.
Aug 15th 2022
554
I see Ozymandias is no longer the only TV ep with a 10.0 rating on IMDB.
Aug 15th 2022
553
It took me awhile to really believe it was the better show
Aug 15th 2022
556
It's still BB for me
Aug 16th 2022
578
I've also come around on thinking it's an overall better show than BB.
Aug 16th 2022
584
      I think the way they built so much tension, intrigue, and suspense
Aug 16th 2022
592
           Exactly.
Aug 17th 2022
596
The real Saul Goodman was the friends we made along the way
Aug 16th 2022
557
RE: The real Saul Goodman was the friends we made along the way
Aug 16th 2022
559
      there was a constant inner turmoil throughout the show
Aug 16th 2022
561
      But that's the thing....
Aug 16th 2022
573
      Saul was already established.
Aug 16th 2022
574
      Yep agreed - this is exactly what I was getting @ in replay #583.
Aug 16th 2022
586
      Haha yea I'm with you here.
Aug 16th 2022
585
anyone complaining about the ending is trippin'. (spoilers)
Aug 16th 2022
563
The ending was pretty anti-True Crime
Aug 16th 2022
571
      I think there are a handful of potential endings that would have made se...
Aug 16th 2022
577
           exactly. SPOILERS
Aug 16th 2022
580
           I re-watched it and... nan, man.
Aug 17th 2022
594
                Oakley's just guessing IMO.
Aug 17th 2022
599
                     Incredibly well said here.
Aug 17th 2022
600
                     yeah, it doesn't have nothing to do w/ Kim ultimately.
Aug 17th 2022
602
really good ***spoilers***
Aug 16th 2022
564
The book wasn't in previous seasons, but they peppered it through this o...
Aug 16th 2022
568
      And he missed an opportunity to discuss this with Chuck of all people
Aug 17th 2022
595
SO sweet.
Aug 16th 2022
566
It was perfect.
Aug 16th 2022
572
really satisfying wrap-up. also so bittersweet
Aug 16th 2022
576
Honestly, I could do with a limited series about Jimmy’s prison exploi...
Aug 16th 2022
582
All in all, it was fun guys.
Aug 16th 2022
588
Yep. I think BCS is a top tier that goes head up with anything.
Aug 16th 2022
590
this is my M.O. for shows too - I rarely get caught up in the zeitgeist
Aug 17th 2022
597
yeah for sure
Aug 17th 2022
601
It’s been in my mind that this might be the last one
Aug 17th 2022
603
      i love to binge stuff but i hear you
Aug 17th 2022
604
Did you ever watch Mad Men?? Halt and Catch Fire??
Aug 18th 2022
605
      Halt and Catch Fire was such a great show. Criminally undervalued.
Aug 18th 2022
606
           I just started Season 1 again. It aged very well.
Aug 19th 2022
608
Also, I have to give it up to everyone. There are so many great takes.
Aug 16th 2022
591
Yeah. This thread was entertainingly bi-polar
Aug 19th 2022
609
      Prestige/event series or otherwise, Thrones is prolly gonna loom a while
Aug 19th 2022
610
           Did you watch the Deadwood movie??
Aug 22nd 2022
612
                It fucked me up. I loved it. I get why it wasn't for everyone
Aug 23rd 2022
613
                     I have to think HBO regrets cancelling Deadwood
Aug 24th 2022
614
Oh God that thing on his lapel in the court scenes...
Aug 18th 2022
607
We will never look at New Mexico the same again
Aug 21st 2022
611
Chicanery!
Sep 13th 2022
615

Cold Truth
Member since Jan 28th 2004
44843 posts
Tue Apr-19-22 03:05 AM

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1. "OH SHIT! THEY’RE BACK!!! BEST RETURN EVER!!"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

Ep 2 was a most pleasant surprise.

  

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herbiehowsermc
Member since Mar 26th 2004
1785 posts
Tue Apr-19-22 08:32 AM

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2. "Yes they are. "
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

It's crazy how they can keep up the quality over so many seasons and never skip a beat.

I guess they're saving the current day storyline for the finale. I can't wait.

  

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Numba_33
Charter member
19333 posts
Tue Apr-19-22 09:21 AM

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3. "Something I didn't understand from the first episode"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

Why did Lalo kill that couple he first came across? At least I'm assuming he did since the show made careful to show him undoing the scissors on the table.

"Sean sparks like John Starks, nah, Sean ball like John Wall" - Rest In Power Forever Sean Price.

  

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Mynoriti
Charter member
38818 posts
Tue Apr-19-22 11:00 AM

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5. "RE: Something I didn't understand from the first episode"
In response to Reply # 3


  

          

>Why did Lalo kill that couple he first came across? At least
>I'm assuming he did since the show made careful to show him
>undoing the scissors on the table.

i think it has something to do with dental records. the conversation he had with the woman mentioned a dentist.
News report said dental records matched Lalo's proving he's dead.
at first i thought ZZ top was a dentist but i think Lalo needed his teeth? it didn't make sense to me so hopefully someone else can clarify.

  

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stravinskian
Member since Feb 24th 2003
12698 posts
Tue Apr-19-22 11:08 AM

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6. "The guy kinda looked like him."
In response to Reply # 3
Tue Apr-19-22 11:20 AM by stravinskian

          

Or at least he did after Lalo told him he should shave off his beard, but leave the mustache and soul patch.

There was that shot they showed in all the ads where the zz top guy came up from the sink and suddenly there were two Lalos in the room.

Also, he'd recently had some dental work, paid for very generously by Lalo.

Gus was skeptical about whether Lalo was dead, considering that all the assassins 'to a man' had died in the siege.

Remember that scene later in the episode when someone was showing Gus all the evidence from Lalo's place, including a heavily charred body that the Federales were sure was Lalo's? It even matched the dental records that they had on file for him...

  

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Mynoriti
Charter member
38818 posts
Tue Apr-19-22 11:19 AM

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7. "thanks.that makes more sense"
In response to Reply # 6


  

          

>Or at least he did after Lalo told him he should shave off his
>beard, but leave the mustache and soul patch.
>
>Also, he'd recently had some dental work, paid for very
>generously by Lalo.
>
>Gus was skeptical about whether Lalo was dead, considering
>that all the mercenaries 'to a man' had died in the siege.
>
>Remember that scene later in the episode when someone was
>showing Gus all the evidence from Lalo's place, including a
>heavily charred body that the Federales were sure was Lalo's?
>It even matched the dental records that they had on file for
>him...


  

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Numba_33
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19333 posts
Tue Apr-19-22 11:33 AM

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8. "Thanks."
In response to Reply # 6


  

          

Made it difficult to make that connection since I was under the assumption he was a total and literal lone wolf in terms of staying under the radar in wanting folks to think he died.

In order to switch and fake his dead body, he had to had gotten some help from up on high.

"Sean sparks like John Starks, nah, Sean ball like John Wall" - Rest In Power Forever Sean Price.

  

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mista k5
Member since Feb 01st 2006
16414 posts
Tue Apr-19-22 09:24 AM

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4. "i think this is the first time i watch the series live"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

usually i would catch it on netflix, last season i was finding streams.

great first two episodes, i feel the tension building on how things will end up for kim.

  

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stravinskian
Member since Feb 24th 2003
12698 posts
Tue Apr-19-22 07:48 PM

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9. "That closing scene with..."
In response to Reply # 0


          


Kim shaking down the Kettlemans -- that was one of the best scenes in either series. I just rewatched that. Holy shit.

And when she said "You think you've lost everything... You have no idea." That's pretty foreboding on what they're gonna tell us about her childhood with the drunk mother and absent father.

  

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Mynoriti
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Tue Apr-19-22 08:55 PM

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10. "this has been Breakng bad for Kim"
In response to Reply # 9


  

          

Saul wants to fuck with Howard. Kim wants to destroy him.

that aside, assuming it was Lalo in that car, it's gonna be pretty scary for her. He knows she's Jimmy's weakness, and he'll do anything to save her if it comes to that.

  

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Brew
Member since Nov 23rd 2002
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Wed Apr-20-22 09:30 AM

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13. "That seems like a reach ?"
In response to Reply # 9


          

>And when she said "You think you've lost everything... You
>have no idea." That's pretty foreboding on what they're gonna
>tell us about her childhood with the drunk mother and absent
>father.

Maybe I missed a cue or something but I thought she just meant, "you think you've lost everything *now* ? Try me ..."

----------------------------------------

"Fuck aliens." © WarriorPoet415

  

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Cold Truth
Member since Jan 28th 2004
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Wed Apr-20-22 09:37 AM

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14. "This was my interpretation. "
In response to Reply # 13


  

          

I wouldn't be surprised to see more in depth coverage of her back ground, but nothing about that statement suggests anything more than her putting those wonderfully insane kettlemans firmly in their place.

  

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stravinskian
Member since Feb 24th 2003
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Wed Apr-20-22 11:30 AM

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16. "I think all I meant..."
In response to Reply # 13
Wed Apr-20-22 11:49 AM by stravinskian

          

(in the admittedly slightly inebriated state in which I made that post, lol...)

is that they've telegraphed that they're gonna say some things about her childhood. They've talked about her pre-ABQ life just two times -- once just a throwaway remark (but likely important in the long run (or maybe a red herring)) about growing up on the kansas-nebraska border. And once in that very weighty but obscure flashback scene where her mom was too drunk to drive her home from school, long after dark. (I guess they also showed her with KC Royals logos and jerseys once in a while, and every time Gene Takavic wears something with a Royals logo I assume it's setting something up.)

Over the years we got a LOT of backstory about why Walter White broke bad, and by now we've gotten even more backstory about Jimmy and Chuck and his parents. I think Rhea Seehorn has said that they were gonna spend a lot of time this season on her past tragedies and how they set her up to hold the kind of intense grudge that's currently making Saul Goodman look like the one with a conscience.


Also, specifically with regard to the Kettelmans: this could very well be me reading extra into this and working in my own drunken-daddy-issues, but I think she was extra pissed at the Kettelmans, for a reason. It's true, as many have noted and someone noted below, that Kim gets mad whenever an innocent person gets exploited -- and her story seems to be developing into something about subverting the justice system to help people who deserve to be helped, because nobody else is doing it.

But also, the thing about the Kettelmans, the way that they exploit innocent people and they're still honestly totally blind to how they're hurting them, willfully naive, that's part of the experience of being a kid with alcoholic parents. The way that Kim's mom talked to her in that flashback scene -- like she's totally fine to drive and she's just a little bit late, and she's only late because people kept distracting her with other things, like it just fundamentally isn't her fault and Kim shouldn't make a big deal out of it. The way that Mrs. Kettelman was talking reminded me of that, so I'm guessing it reminded Kim of that.

  

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Brew
Member since Nov 23rd 2002
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17. "Haha word - I wouldn't be surprised (and would be psyched !) if they exp..."
In response to Reply # 16


          

It would make a lot of sense, considering how little we know, how important she is to the show, and how she's really the only one we don't have backstory on at this point.

I was just saying that I didn't see *that* particular scene or line as any kind of foreshadowing. I don't think the two are connected at all haha. But again you may be right anyway, that they plan to explore her further.


>(in the admittedly slightly inebriated state in which I made
>that post, lol...)
>
>is that they've telegraphed that they're gonna say some things
>about her childhood. They've talked about her pre-ABQ life
>just two times -- once just a throwaway remark (but likely
>important in the long run (or maybe a red herring)) about
>growing up on the kansas-nebraska border. And once in that
>very weighty but obscure flashback scene where her mom was too
>drunk to drive her home from school, long after dark. (I guess
>they also showed her with KC Royals logos and jerseys once in
>a while, and every time Gene Takavic wears something with a
>Royals logo I assume it's setting something up.)
>
>Over the years we got a LOT of backstory about why Walter
>White broke bad, and by now we've gotten even more backstory
>about Jimmy and Chuck and his parents. I think Rhea Seehorn
>has said that they were gonna spend a lot of time this season
>on her past tragedies and how they set her up to hold the kind
>of intense grudge that's currently making Saul Goodman look
>like the one with a conscience.

----------------------------------------

"Fuck aliens." © WarriorPoet415

  

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stravinskian
Member since Feb 24th 2003
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Wed Apr-20-22 11:56 AM

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20. "Yeah, I'm entirely speculating."
In response to Reply # 17


          


That's one of the things that makes this show and Breaking Bad so much fun, all the times when some minor thing from a few seasons back turns out to be much more important than we originally thought.

I edited and added a little more context on what I'm thinking, that the kind of willful blindness that the Kettelmans were showing was reminiscent to the behavior of alcoholic parents. But yeah, this is entirely me trying to guess ahead. And while these two shows have had plenty of prophetic events, they've also had nearly as many red-herrings.

  

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Mynoriti
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Wed Apr-20-22 12:02 PM

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21. "i didn't interpret it as about her either, but they def could be dead on"
In response to Reply # 17
Wed Apr-20-22 12:02 PM by Mynoriti

  

          

i thought it was more vaguely about some of the people she reps in pro-bono.

but damn if for them to be like "we've lost everything" in response to being impeded from making a living stealing from people far worse off than them (our kid's have to go to public school!) made me bothered that Jimmy felt any sympathy for them.

i guess part of it is if he never entered their lives, they wouldn't robbing a poor granny's tax return. maybe going back the wolves/sheep thing, because they don't know how to do anything else... or something

  

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DJR
Member since Jan 01st 2005
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Tue Apr-19-22 10:24 PM

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11. "I hate that Nacho is screwed"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

Knew it was coming a long time ago, but damn. It just keeps slowly getting more impossible for him.

I wish there was someone big that he could take out before he inevitably goes down but Lalo is the only possibility there, and that seems unlikely because it seemed he was still alive in Breaking Bad times.

  

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Numba_33
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Thu Apr-21-22 09:45 AM

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31. "If I'm not mistaken"
In response to Reply # 11


  

          

>Knew it was coming a long time ago, but damn. It just keeps
>slowly getting more impossible for him.
>
>I wish there was someone big that he could take out before he
>inevitably goes down but Lalo is the only possibility there,
>and that seems unlikely because it seemed he was still alive
>in Breaking Bad times.

Didn't Saul name check both Nacho and Lalo in that scene you're referring to?

"Sean sparks like John Starks, nah, Sean ball like John Wall" - Rest In Power Forever Sean Price.

  

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Brew
Member since Nov 23rd 2002
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32. "He did. I don't think either's fate is inevitable."
In response to Reply # 31
Thu Apr-21-22 09:57 AM by Brew

          

For all we know Saul thought they were both alive. And the line gives nothing away.

They could both be alive, both be dead, or one could be alive and one could be dead. That BB scene was a throwaway line that turned into two major storylines in the prequel show, and IMO seems totally ambiguous in terms of their respective fates.


>>Knew it was coming a long time ago, but damn. It just
>keeps
>>slowly getting more impossible for him.
>>
>>I wish there was someone big that he could take out before
>he
>>inevitably goes down but Lalo is the only possibility there,
>>and that seems unlikely because it seemed he was still alive
>>in Breaking Bad times.
>
>Didn't Saul name check both Nacho and Lalo in that scene
>you're referring to?

----------------------------------------

"Fuck aliens." © WarriorPoet415

  

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Numba_33
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35. "If that is all true"
In response to Reply # 32


  

          

>For all we know Saul thought they were both alive. And the
>line gives nothing away.
>
>They could both be alive, both be dead, or one could be alive
>and one could be dead. That BB scene was a throwaway line that
>turned into two major storylines in the prequel show, and IMO
>seems totally ambiguous in terms of their respective fates.

then it naturally lessens the chance either one had a part to play with Kim not being around during the Breaking Bad timeline as well.

"Sean sparks like John Starks, nah, Sean ball like John Wall" - Rest In Power Forever Sean Price.

  

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allStah
Member since Jun 21st 2014
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Wed Apr-20-22 07:22 AM

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12. "Kim is ruthless when it comes to justice and the goodwill"
In response to Reply # 0
Wed Apr-20-22 07:47 AM by allStah

          

of the people. Kim will not stand for innocent, honest people getting screwed,
whereas Jimmy believes that the honest man is a sucker, so he appreciates
a good con-artist and a good con-job.

Kim will bend the law and the rules to bring down perverse, greedy
individuals, but she will not tolerate innocent people getting manipulated.

That is why she looked back at Jimmy and said “ you gave them the money,
didn’t you?” Jimmy felt sorry for the Kettlemans, who a are bunch of devious crooks.

ALL HAIL THE KING of LOSING: LEBRON
Bulls | Bears | White Sox | Yankees | Notre Dame | Illinois | Chelsea | Real Madrid

  

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Cold Truth
Member since Jan 28th 2004
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Wed Apr-20-22 09:50 AM

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15. "Most of Jimmy's con targets are trash, not the "honest man""
In response to Reply # 12
Wed Apr-20-22 09:50 AM by Cold Truth

  

          

>Jimmy believes that the honest man is a sucker, so he
>appreciates
>a good con-artist and a good con-job.

This doesn't wash with what we've seen in the show at all.

Even as a lawyer, no matter how dirty the trick is, it's always in defense of a client being wronged, or a situation where he himself has little choice due to consequences lurking around the corner.

But he has not shown a propensity for conning the "honest man".

The guys he scammed as Slippin' Jimmy were people who were trying to get over on him.

As a lawyer, for example, when he pulled his stunt with the fake defendent, he successfully proved the serious (and very real) problem with eye witness testimony.

Even if his client were guilty, the methods being used to convict were clearly biased and unjust.

Or Ken, who is very clearly an egomanical asshole- asshat is also acceptable- Jimmy is simply using his own arrogance against him, to bring him down just a peg.

And the shit with Chuck- who is arguably the biggest POS on the show, which is saying a LOT- and Howard, is simply a matter of them getting what they're earned for the way they've treated Jimmy.

Jimmy is no saint, and he's not 100% in the right in most of these situations. He's down to play dirty in a world he recognizes as dirty, and has plenty of plain old scum bag in him to be sure.

But this bit about him seeing the honest man as a sucker and loving a good con for that reason, I just don't see that as congruent with his portrayal in the show.

  

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Mynoriti
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Wed Apr-20-22 11:43 AM

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18. "he does call back the wolves and sheep line"
In response to Reply # 15


  

          

from the flashback where that dude scammed his dad out of money at his store.

was the wolves/sheep dynamic referring to, saul/kim, kim/kettlemans, kettlemans/kettleman's "clients"? all of the above on some level?

I think Saul and Kim are roughly still on the same page at this point, except Kim is going full measure on all fronts (protect the little guy/destroy howard), and Saul's still an apprehensive combo of Jimmy McGill, Slppin Jimmy & Saul. We're still a ways from the golden toilet.

  

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Brew
Member since Nov 23rd 2002
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19. "Absolutely right."
In response to Reply # 15


          

How one can watch this show and come to the conclusion that Jimmy/Saul has spent 5 seasons conning the "honest man" is mindblowing at best. But considering the source I shouldn't be surprised at the stupidity.


>>Jimmy believes that the honest man is a sucker, so he
>>appreciates
>>a good con-artist and a good con-job.
>
>This doesn't wash with what we've seen in the show at all.
>
>Even as a lawyer, no matter how dirty the trick is, it's
>always in defense of a client being wronged, or a situation
>where he himself has little choice due to consequences lurking
>around the corner.
>
>But he has not shown a propensity for conning the "honest
>man".
>
>The guys he scammed as Slippin' Jimmy were people who were
>trying to get over on him.
>
>As a lawyer, for example, when he pulled his stunt with the
>fake defendent, he successfully proved the serious (and very
>real) problem with eye witness testimony.
>
>Even if his client were guilty, the methods being used to
>convict were clearly biased and unjust.
>
>Or Ken, who is very clearly an egomanical asshole- asshat is
>also acceptable- Jimmy is simply using his own arrogance
>against him, to bring him down just a peg.
>
>And the shit with Chuck- who is arguably the biggest POS on
>the show, which is saying a LOT- and Howard, is simply a
>matter of them getting what they're earned for the way they've
>treated Jimmy.
>
>Jimmy is no saint, and he's not 100% in the right in most of
>these situations. He's down to play dirty in a world he
>recognizes as dirty, and has plenty of plain old scum bag in
>him to be sure.
>
>But this bit about him seeing the honest man as a sucker and
>loving a good con for that reason, I just don't see that as
>congruent with his portrayal in the show.

----------------------------------------

"Fuck aliens." © WarriorPoet415

  

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stravinskian
Member since Feb 24th 2003
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Wed Apr-20-22 12:12 PM

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22. "I think they've shown a sequence of transitions for Jimmy."
In response to Reply # 19


          

As a kid, he started to believe that everything is a scam, that the people who think there's more to life than a sequence of scams are either liars or suckers waiting to become targets for petty schemes.

That's Slippin' Jimmy. It wasn't about scamming "honest" people. It was about scamming anybody he could, just because he thought that's all that there was to life.

And eventually he wanted to prove -- most of all to himself -- that Chuck's great success in life was also fundamentally about finding the cracks in the system. So Jimmy wanted to show that he could scam his way to a legal career. And he basically did, but as we saw, just becoming a lawyer doesn't make him Charles McGill, and we all saw how that turned out.

So when Chuck died, he discovered that scamming people is NOT the purpose of life. But by then he didn't think he could be good at anything else. So this leads to the nihilistic Saul Goodman. Life is the process of getting from one day to the next, nothing more, and if you're skillful at dishonesty you can pass those days with more comfort.

  

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Cold Truth
Member since Jan 28th 2004
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Wed Apr-20-22 12:34 PM

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23. "We've never seen that from Slippn' Jimmy though. "
In response to Reply # 22


  

          

>It was about scamming anybody he could, just because
>he thought that's all that there was to life.

I don't think this has ever been shown in the show. I don't see him as ever scamming "anybody he could".

Jimmy has a nose for the asshole in the room. The guys we see Slippin' Jimmy go after- the bar guys- are just that, and a major part of his scheming is luring them in with their asshole tendencies, showing that they're more than happy to con *him*.

His marks consistently share this trait, and he simply uses that against them. Shit, he did the exact thing with Chuck.

I don't see even a slight case for him scamming anybody he could.

Frankly, he's a lot more like Dexter in this regard.

He's an alpha wolf among wolves, a particular brand of predator who doesn't necessarily hunt other predators- I'm using that term loosely-, but one who makes a point of weeding out those predators when he sees them.

IMO that's the greater point of the man at the cash register. Jimmy isn't just a kill-or-be-killed kind of guy. It can be argued that each of his marks is some form of that man, and that's who Jimmy is out to get. But definitely not anyone.

>And eventually he wanted to prove -- most of all to himself --
>that Chuck's great success in life was also fundamentally
>about finding the cracks in the system. So Jimmy wanted to
>show that he could scam his way to a legal career.

He didn't though. He went to a real school and practiced real law. He exploits those same cracks as chuck, albeit through less conventional method, but I don't see him as "scamming his way to a legal career" by any stretch. I don't think that's born out in his story. He definitely uses those scamming abilities to a degree- see the shit with Lalo's "family" in court, or the fake witness in court.

So while he uses plenty of smoke & mirrors along the way, I think it's an unfair characterization that he thought he could scam his way to a legal career.

And he
>basically did, but as we saw, just becoming a lawyer doesn't
>make him Charles McGill, and we all saw how that turned out.

He's arguably Chuck's peer, intellectually. Frankly, it's likely that we'd see a much different Jimmy right today, were Chuck not undermining him every step of the way, literally starting the moment Jimmy showed him the law degree. But that constant reminder of what he was previously, only served to push him toward a seedier path.

  

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stravinskian
Member since Feb 24th 2003
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Wed Apr-20-22 01:04 PM

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24. "I was thinking of the bar guys, and the "Kevin Costner" women."
In response to Reply # 23


          

At the time I saw the bar guys as just randoms, not the kind of people who would ordinarily rob the wallet or the watch of a guy passed out on the ground. But Jimmy plays into their need to feel like they're the ones in control.

But it's been a while since I saw those scenes. I may need to rewatch them. I certainly don't remember any implied moral purpose in the schemes that they came up with. I don't think it's that Jimmy had a nose for the asshole, it's that he had a nose for the mark. And sometimes assholes make good marks.

As for convincing drunken women to sleep with him because he's Kevin Costner in town scouting for a movie... That's clearly just him doing it because he thought he could. Admittedly it's a little different from what we'd normally think of as a scam, but Jimmy clearly thought about it in those terms.


On the Chuck business, I think the question of whether his legal career was a scam is highly dependent on how we consider the correspondence-based "University of American Samoa" as a training for legal work. In Jimmy's eyes: yes, maybe it's a little silly ("go sea crabs!"), but it prepared him to pass the bar and work as a lawyer. Therefore he's a lawyer.

To Chuck, though, there's a lot more to the law than just passing the bar and knowing what forms to fill out and when. Jimmy wasn't interested in the law before he felt he had to prove something to Chuck. So in Chuck's eyes, Jimmy's career was about trivializing the hard work that Chuck thinks he did to get where he was.

Is education something we do along the way in the lifelong work of developing our own personal intellectual fulfillment? Or is it a specific means to an end, the end being a high-paying job in a fancy suit? The idea that it's a means to an end is what made Chuck see it as an affront, whereas Jimmy thought that's the only reason we do anything we do.

  

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Brew
Member since Nov 23rd 2002
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Wed Apr-20-22 01:52 PM

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26. "Yea I think this is it."
In response to Reply # 23


          

>IMO that's the greater point of the man at the cash register.
>Jimmy isn't just a kill-or-be-killed kind of guy. It can be
>argued that each of his marks is some form of that man, and
>that's who Jimmy is out to get. But definitely not anyone.

^^^ I think that's the point, too.

----------------------------------------

"Fuck aliens." © WarriorPoet415

  

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allStah
Member since Jun 21st 2014
9816 posts
Wed Apr-20-22 06:18 PM

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30. "Why do you think Kim asked to come along with him "
In response to Reply # 15
Wed Apr-20-22 06:23 PM by allStah

          

on his meeting with the Kettlemans, and Jimmy was sort of hesitant
about it? Jimmy was just going to go there and give them the money
to get them to play along, and totally disregard their con business of cheating
innocent people out of their tax money.

I’m not saying Jimmy went around targeting innocent, honest people to con
as a lawyer, but he didn’t and doesn’t always stop people from being conned either.
He appreciates a good con, because he did con people out of their money before he took being a lawyer seriously. They showed all of that in the beginning

He clearly felt sorry and had compassion for the Kettlemans and felt Kim
was being too harsh on them, even though they have done nothing but fuck
innocent people out of their money for a living.

It was Kim who came in and said not only are you going to end your scam business,
but you’re going to return every penny of tax money that you stole. Jimmy
would have never done that.

It’s hard for Jimmy to be COMPLETELY straight because he appreciates
a good con, and he feels being completely honest doesn’t pay off. That’s
why Chuck didn’t want Jimmy to be part of the law. Chuck was a piece of shit,
but just like Kim he was dead serious about the law.....We all know Jimmy
isn’t cut from that fabric.



ALL HAIL THE KING of LOSING: LEBRON
Bulls | Bears | White Sox | Yankees | Notre Dame | Illinois | Chelsea | Real Madrid

  

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Mynoriti
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Thu Apr-21-22 11:44 AM

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33. "Kim's pro-bono = Walt's I'm doing it all for my family"
In response to Reply # 30
Thu Apr-21-22 11:52 AM by Mynoriti

  

          

she absolutely does care for the little guy and cherishes her pro-bono work, but what really moves her is running schemes.

We see sprinkles of it through out the seasons how "alive" she is every time her and Jimmy pull some shit together, big or small. When she brings Jimmy in to work a scheme on the Mesa Verde thing, and realizes part of his scheme was to dupe her too, her reaction was let's get married.

at the end of last season when he told her about his antagonizing of Howard, her reaction was "bowling balls and hookers.. that's it?", and when they start playing game of coming up with ways to fuck with Howard... it acts as literal foreplay for them, and after they fuck, she ups the stakes to pretty much destroying Howard... her justification is basically so she can get the sand piper money and get her pro bono biz going..

but Jimmy's clearly uncomfortable with it, saying this isn't her (which she says, "isn't it?").. part because even he doesn't think Howard deserves that much smoke, but also he sees something darker in her, that i think we're gonna see a lot more of in this final season.

  

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Brew
Member since Nov 23rd 2002
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Thu Apr-21-22 11:57 AM

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34. "I think she comes alive with pro bono work too."
In response to Reply # 33
Thu Apr-21-22 11:58 AM by Brew

          

Cuz both pro bono work and running schemes on rich assholes kind of accomplishes the same goal: making rich assholes squirm and fight.

I think we're mostly saying the same thing but just wanted to say that I think she gets the same *kind* of thrill from both, even if the schemes get her going to a slightly higher degree. If that makes sense.

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Cold Truth
Member since Jan 28th 2004
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Thu Apr-21-22 12:46 PM

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36. "Slight nitpick: I think it's a different thrill. "
In response to Reply # 34
Thu Apr-21-22 12:48 PM by Cold Truth

  

          

I don't think pro bono work gets her hot & bothered. I see the pro bono as real, genuine, human fulfillment.

>I think we're mostly saying the same thing but just wanted to
>say that I think she gets the same *kind* of thrill from both,
>even if the schemes get her going to a slightly higher degree.
>If that makes sense.

I hear you, but I think there's a categorical difference between the two.

I'd argue that, what she gets from each, she gets in the same amount.

If we're using units of measurement, for example, she gets a cup of fulfillment from pro bono, and a cup of "thrill" from running game. Each provides a similar *amount* of gratification- but each is fueling different sides of her.

To summarize my slight adjustment of your view:

Pro bono warms her heart, running game heats up her lady bits, in roughly equal amounts.

  

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Brew
Member since Nov 23rd 2002
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37. "LOL - very well stated, I agree."
In response to Reply # 36


          

>I don't think pro bono work gets her hot & bothered. I see
>the pro bono as real, genuine, human fulfillment.
>
>>I think we're mostly saying the same thing but just wanted
>to
>>say that I think she gets the same *kind* of thrill from
>both,
>>even if the schemes get her going to a slightly higher
>degree.
>>If that makes sense.
>
>I hear you, but I think there's a categorical difference
>between the two.
>
>I'd argue that, what she gets from each, she gets in the same
>amount.
>
>If we're using units of measurement, for example, she gets a
>cup of fulfillment from pro bono, and a cup of "thrill" from
>running game. Each provides a similar *amount* of
>gratification- but each is fueling different sides of her.
>
>To summarize my slight adjustment of your view:
>
>Pro bono warms her heart, running game heats up her lady bits,
>in roughly equal amounts.

----------------------------------------

"Fuck aliens." © WarriorPoet415

  

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Mynoriti
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39. "right. plus i think she can use one to justify the other"
In response to Reply # 36


  

          

the pro-bono work is altruistic, and fulfilling to the soul, and i'm sure there's a dopamine hit in giving some deserving rich asshole some comuppance

but as you said, its different. there's never been some crazy sexual chemistry between Jimmy and Kim. They're more like great buddies/partners.. When the sceheme stuff enters is when she's into him in that way.

and its such a high to all her senses.. if she gets to tell herself that it's all in service of the pro-bono stuff, she's gonna keep chasing it more. and that it's gonna impair her judgement more and more. it's unavoidable.

  

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Numba_33
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25. "This serves as the unfortunate reminder"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

that AMC is going the break this final season into two parts.

Even worse news is that I read that the second part of the final season will start its second batch of episodes in July with the show finally ending in August.

Terrible.

"Sean sparks like John Starks, nah, Sean ball like John Wall" - Rest In Power Forever Sean Price.

  

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Brew
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Wed Apr-20-22 01:54 PM

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27. "Better than waiting another year a la Sopranos, Breaking Bad, Mad Men, e..."
In response to Reply # 25
Wed Apr-20-22 01:54 PM by Brew

          

But yea generally speaking I'm also anti-two part seasons no matter the length of the break in between. Seems so pointless/misguided.

----------------------------------------

"Fuck aliens." © WarriorPoet415

  

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Mynoriti
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28. "I like it in a way"
In response to Reply # 25


  

          

I just found out too, and my immediate reaction was oh, that's cool I guess lol

I think it's the like having more to look forward to aspect of it

  

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Brew
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29. "Yea by all accounts it's a short break."
In response to Reply # 28
Wed Apr-20-22 04:12 PM by Brew

          

So they didn't film it as if it were two separate seasons, they just call it S6 Parts 1 & 2, which is what annoys me. Just call it S6 and S7 in that case haha. That's my OCD take.


>I think it's the like having more to look forward to aspect
>of it

----------------------------------------

"Fuck aliens." © WarriorPoet415

  

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Numba_33
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38. "These episodes started in early Spring."
In response to Reply # 29


  

          

And the show will end in the middle of Fall. A span of three seasons out of the year.

I get why the show is taking a break in terms of avoiding airing a bulk of the season during the summer and running the trail end of the series in the fall to garner higher ratings, which in turn will bump up the ad revenue.

Still fairly annoying, but there isn't anything that can be done the change the matter, so whatever.

"Sean sparks like John Starks, nah, Sean ball like John Wall" - Rest In Power Forever Sean Price.

  

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Brew
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40. "Can someone explain the whole safe situation to me ?"
In response to Reply # 0


          

I rewatched last nite after refreshing my memory as to where season 5 (and prior) had left off so I could make sure I understood all the storylines better. But the whole safe replacement and ID situation were the only scenes I'm still not fully grasping. Hopefully someone can give me an explainer ?

----------------------------------------

"Fuck aliens." © WarriorPoet415

  

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Sofian_Hadi
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41. "Gus doesn't care to protect Nacho. Mike wants to protect him."
In response to Reply # 40
Fri Apr-22-22 11:10 AM by Sofian_Hadi

          

My assumption was they left the motel number to lead them to Nacho, to throw them off of Gus' trail. But Mike replaced the Ids because he didnt agree with putting a civilian (Nacho's dad) in harm's way. Mike is trying to protect Nacho and his dad while also doing what Gus asked. I think. *shrug*

---------------------------------------

"The world is before you and you need not take it or leave it as it was when you came in." - James Baldwin

  

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Mynoriti
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42. "weren't they the same ID's?"
In response to Reply # 41


  

          

i thought Mike apprehensively put Nacho's back and just pocketed the Dad's

also seems Gus was hoping for a Hank/Murder twins situation when they found Nacho. Tyrus said if anyone shows up start blasting. the Hank hit worked out better for Gus. This puts everyone squarely on Nacho, except for Lalo who's supposed to be dead.

  

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Sofian_Hadi
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44. "I just watched it again. You're right."
In response to Reply # 42


          

He pockets dad's id and put's Nacho's back.

---------------------------------------

"The world is before you and you need not take it or leave it as it was when you came in." - James Baldwin

  

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Brew
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45. "Thanks y'all. Then obviously they replaced the safe so no one would noti..."
In response to Reply # 44


          

----------------------------------------

"Fuck aliens." © WarriorPoet415

  

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allStah
Member since Jun 21st 2014
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53. "They did it to set up Nacho, to lead the cartel to him,"
In response to Reply # 40
Sat Apr-23-22 06:33 AM by allStah

          

so that they could kill him. Since Nacho is in Mexico, Gus can’t do it himself or
hire anyone in Mexico to do it ( the cartel would snatch the guy and find out
who hired him). The only thing Gus can do is hire someone to watch Nacho
so he would know where Nacho is at all times of the day.

Nacho had two fake IDs made for him and his father to be able to escape safely and
secretly to another country once he gets back from Mexico. Mike took out Nacho’s
Father’s ID so the cartel wouldn’t get it, thus keeping Nacho’s father safe and out
of the picture, and only implicating Nacho.

ALL HAIL THE KING of LOSING: LEBRON
Bulls | Bears | White Sox | Yankees | Notre Dame | Illinois | Chelsea | Real Madrid

  

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Mynoriti
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43. "saw someone point out that Lalo calling the old folks home"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

and speaking spanish, so that the lady would say they don't have a spanish speaker on site. that way he's clear to talk to Hector without anyone listening in.

  

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Brew
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46. "The attention to detail in this show smh."
In response to Reply # 43


          

Something not a single viewer would have even considered had they not done that.

----------------------------------------

"Fuck aliens." © WarriorPoet415

  

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stravinskian
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47. "Oh shit I hadn't realized that."
In response to Reply # 43
Fri Apr-22-22 02:05 PM by stravinskian

          

I was confused about that myself, but this makes perfect sense.

Someone needs to keep an eye on Vince Gilligan and Peter Gould. They could be damn fine supervillains.

  

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Numba_33
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48. "This might be nitpicking"
In response to Reply # 43


  

          

but how realistic would it be for an old folks home based in New Mexico to not have someone on staff to speak Spanish?

To be clear, that's not a big enough deal to me to take me out of the experience of watching the show, but that doesn't strike me as something that's authentic to real life.

"Sean sparks like John Starks, nah, Sean ball like John Wall" - Rest In Power Forever Sean Price.

  

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stravinskian
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49. "I just found the scene (Ep. 1, 50:00)"
In response to Reply # 48


          


She didn't say there were no Spanish speakers on staff. In fact, what she said was "I'm sorry, let me get someone who speaks Spanish." And then Lalo quickly switches back to English before she steps away. So there were Spanish speakers there, she just wasn't one of them.

I think the only thing he wanted to be sure about was whether she, specifically, speaks Spanish, because she would presumably be the one holding the phone to Hector's ear.

  

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herbiehowsermc
Member since Mar 26th 2004
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51. "RE: I just found the scene (Ep. 1, 50:00)"
In response to Reply # 49


  

          


>I think the only thing he wanted to be sure about was whether
>she, specifically, speaks Spanish, because she would
>presumably be the one holding the phone to Hector's ear.
>

Ah, good point. I think this must be the meaning behind it.

  

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Mynoriti
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52. "ah.. thanks for clarifying."
In response to Reply # 49


  

          

Lalo's so multi skilled lol

  

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Ashy Achilles
Member since Sep 22nd 2005
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55. "This."
In response to Reply # 49


          

  

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Cold Truth
Member since Jan 28th 2004
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54. "That’s very realistic, actually"
In response to Reply # 48
Sat Apr-23-22 11:35 AM by Cold Truth

  

          

Forgive me, because this is something of a rant.

It’s realistic, quite frankly, because there are a lot of smart/dumb motherfuckers running shit.

I work in public social services in southern California. Spanish speakers represent a significant portion of our customer base, to the point where there are days where English language cases represent maybe 1/5th of my workload that day.

Despite this fact, there’s only ONE staff interpreter on site, with two workers serving rotating backups who, surprise surprise, are always unavailable.

We’re not aloud to pull people who are not assigned as backups to interpret. We have to find a Spanish langur supervisor, and if they’re unavailable- which they always are- we have to “make due” or “figure it out”. This is a problem everywhere on the floor, but especially the front lobby, because a LOT can be handled there.

Given the high number of Spanish speaking customers, this is absolutely absurd, and leads to situations where Spanish language customers wait longer, or we have to “make due” .

Worse? We have plenty of Spanish language workers- who get paid kore for being Spanish speakers.

The ridiculously simple fix here, is to assign only Bilingual workers to the front lobby.

A LOT of problems are solved that way- particularly for the customer- but nope.

Shit, our call center doesn’t have a staff interpreter. We have a Spanish language queue, but a significant number of people call the English queue. Rather than have Spanish language staff to handle these specific calls, we have to call a third party service, at exorbitant rates.

All this to say, having no Spanish language staff available is, unfortunately, very realistic.

Obviously every agency or organization won’t be this grossly inept, but I have no doubt that plenty of them are.

  

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herbiehowsermc
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50. "RE: saw someone point out that Lalo calling the old folks home"
In response to Reply # 43


  

          

I understood it to mean that he expected the person on the line to speak Spanish. The woman on the phone said they would go get someone who spoke Spanish, meaning there must be at least one staff member there who speaks Spanish.

  

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stravinskian
Member since Feb 24th 2003
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56. "Super obvious reference..."
In response to Reply # 0
Sat Apr-23-22 12:21 PM by stravinskian

          

and I don't know how I didn't notice it until my second full viewing...

But the opening scene, where the feds are emptying out the house -- that was a direct reference to the closing scene of Citizen Kane.

The tacky but resplendent house, totally packed with stuff. Most of it pointless, some of it really important, and nobody seems to know or care about the difference. Dozens of rubber balls in the trash (from the cell phone store, I assume). Greek marble statues crated up and on dollies. Stuff absolutely everywhere, so crowded it looks like it's hard to get around. But it's all just a burden for somebody else now. The detritus of a life spent trying to fill a gap that couldn't be filled.

And the camera slowly zooms in on the most important thing of all, which to everyone else is so pointless as to not even be worth taking.

Yeah maybe it's a cliche. But the scene obviously worked in Kane, and it worked here too.

  

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Brew
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57. "Ahhh very good !"
In response to Reply # 56


          

>And the camera slowly zooms in on the most important thing of
>all, which to everyone else is so pointless as to not even be
>worth taking.
>
>Yeah maybe it's a cliche. But the scene obviously worked in
>Kane, and it worked here too.

----------------------------------------

"Fuck aliens." © WarriorPoet415

  

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Beamer6178
Member since Jan 09th 2006
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143. "shit was that a rosebud???"
In response to Reply # 56


  

          

>and I don't know how I didn't notice it until my second full
>viewing...
>
>But the opening scene, where the feds are emptying out the
>house -- that was a direct reference to the closing scene of
>Citizen Kane.
>
>The tacky but resplendent house, totally packed with stuff.
>Most of it pointless, some of it really important, and nobody
>seems to know or care about the difference. Dozens of rubber
>balls in the trash (from the cell phone store, I assume).
>Greek marble statues crated up and on dollies. Stuff
>absolutely everywhere, so crowded it looks like it's hard to
>get around. But it's all just a burden for somebody else now.
>The detritus of a life spent trying to fill a gap that
>couldn't be filled.
>
>And the camera slowly zooms in on the most important thing of
>all, which to everyone else is so pointless as to not even be
>worth taking.
>
>Yeah maybe it's a cliche. But the scene obviously worked in
>Kane, and it worked here too.

was that JUST a reference to CK or did Saul/Jimmy have a significant attachment to it? Was it Chuck's?

I appreciate this thread. I binged through BCS right after binging through BB but that was late 2020 and the wait has been so long, I'm rusty on a lot of the finer points.

  

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stravinskian
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185. "The first time Jimmy & Kim scammed anybody..."
In response to Reply # 143


          


the stockbroker guy (the same guy with the "KEN WINS" license plate on the BMW that Walt burned up in Breaking Bad); they talked him into a long conversation about how he could invest their (fake) assets, and in the process they got him to buy a very expensive bottle of Tequila. That thing that fell into the gutter was the bottle stopper. Jimmy has grabbed it a few other times when he was reminiscing.

  

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Cold Truth
Member since Jan 28th 2004
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58. "Hey, you fucking pricks, hurry the fuck up and watch this piece of shit"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

You pieces of shit need to hurry the fuck up so we can discuss THIS piece of shit

Fuck Vince Gilligan, his wife, his dog, and his great great great grandbabies too

Fuck my dog and while I’m at, my own punk ass wife and kids better be on their p’s & q’s tonight

Ok, I’m not *that* angry, but GODDAMNIT

  

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Ashy Achilles
Member since Sep 22nd 2005
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60. "LOL"
In response to Reply # 58


          

There were really only 2 ways this could have gone

  

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Cold Truth
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61. "TOO SOON, FUCK YOU YOU FUCKING @&$%#*!??!!!!!!!!!!!"
In response to Reply # 60


  

          

No offense, lol.

Sigh.

Of course there were only two paths for him- and this was always the most likely.

Vince took that full measure and I respect the hell out of him for it

But fuuuuuuck that shit still hurt.

This sucks.

  

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Cold Truth
Member since Jan 28th 2004
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59. "Yo... Hurry. The. Fuck. Up"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

You know what? FUCK YOU TOO. And you. And you. And you.

Somewhere, there’s a sweet old lady trying to cross the street

Fuck her too

I hate this place.

  

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allStah
Member since Jun 21st 2014
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62. "SPOILERS"
In response to Reply # 0
Mon Apr-25-22 10:53 PM by allStah

          

Michael Mando is a brilliant actor and he carried that episode flawlessly.
However, I have a problem with him turning himself in
and then offing himself. It was a great samurai move, but he could
have done that back in Mexico once he realized that his father was going
to be safe. He could have just told Gus over the phone that he satisfied his
demands, and then executed himself right afterwards. I’m not a fan of that
part of the script. Plus I think he killed off the Nacho character too soon.
This wasn’t the best of episodes. It was good, but it was also deflating.
Nacho and Kim were the only characters whose fates were unknown. Now
it’s just down to Kim.

I think it is the FBI or some type of law enforcement who are following Kim and Saul. Now that we know that Saul’s slip of the tongue put the prosecutors onto Lalo, which
led them to believe that Saul was possibly forced to cover for Lalo, it would only make sense to have Kim and Saul tailed to try to get close to the cartel. We shall see.


ALL HAIL THE KING of LOSING: LEBRON
Bulls | Bears | White Sox | Yankees | Notre Dame | Illinois | Chelsea | Real Madrid

  

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Cold Truth
Member since Jan 28th 2004
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63. "Gracias"
In response to Reply # 62
Mon Apr-25-22 10:56 PM by Cold Truth

  

          

I think we all sensed what was coming

  

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Cold Truth
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64. "Also, this was the right choice"
In response to Reply # 62
Mon Apr-25-22 10:56 PM by Cold Truth

  

          

>episode flawlessly. However, I have a problem with him
>turning himself in
>and then offing himself. It was a great samurai move, but he
>could
>have done that back in Mexico once he realized that his father
>was going
>to be safe. He could have just told Gus over the phone that he
>satisfied his
>demands, and then executed himself right afterwards.

But that would have undermined the significant work by everyone involved to get here.

Nacho needed to ensure Papi’s safety
Mike was putting himself on uneasy terms with Gus over it
Gus wasn’t budging
The Salamanca’s damn sure weren’t budging- and Hector blamed Gus as it is

The only move that even remotely appeased both the Salamancas and Gus, as well as Gus’ need for plausible deniability, was killing Nacho

Nacho’s options were limited to whatever drop of mercy Gus would allow

That Gus acquiesced to their original plan was a minor miracle as it was

Nacho chose to do it in a way that would best ensure Papi’s safety- and did so in a way that allowed him to STILL get out on his own terms, giving Gus the deniability he needed, while at once revealing to Hector that he was responsible for Hector’s condition AND denying the Salamanca’s bloodlust

Doing it in Mexico wouldn’t have satisfied ang of that, and it would have cheapened 5 seasons worth of storytelling by comparison

This tied up all the the threads that mattered in this regard, and in a memorable way

ALL THAT is before we even get into Mike’s relationship with Nacho serving as penance for Matty, trying to save a father and son *together*. He failed to save his own son from his game, so he tried to help save his “new” son from this game- failing there, once again, only to see the father outlive his son. Mike is now 0-2 on that front.

All of which forshadows the relationship he eventually develops with Jesse.

It was absolutely the correct choice. That one scene did as much meaningful heavy lifting as any scene in any show I can think of.

  

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allStah
Member since Jun 21st 2014
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66. "Naw. It doesn’t fly, especially with how easily he busted out "
In response to Reply # 64


          

of his plastic wrist constraints. Lalo and Hector will see right through that bullshit.
The script could have been way better.

ALL HAIL THE KING of LOSING: LEBRON
Bulls | Bears | White Sox | Yankees | Notre Dame | Illinois | Chelsea | Real Madrid

  

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Ashy Achilles
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68. "Agreed"
In response to Reply # 64


          

  

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Brew
Member since Nov 23rd 2002
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Tue Apr-26-22 08:42 AM

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69. "This is the important part:"
In response to Reply # 64


          

>while
>at once revealing to Hector that he was responsible for
>Hector’s condition AND denying the Salamanca’s bloodlust
>
>Doing it in Mexico wouldn’t have satisfied ang of that, and
>it would have cheapened 5 seasons worth of storytelling by
>comparison

^^^ indeed.


>ALL THAT is before we even get into Mike’s relationship
>with Nacho serving as penance for Matty, trying to save a
>father and son *together*. He failed to save his own son from
>his game, so he tried to help save his “new” son from this
>game- failing there, once again, only to see the father
>outlive his son. Mike is now 0-2 on that front.
>
>All of which forshadows the relationship he eventually
>develops with Jesse.

Damn I didn't even really make that connection. Gonna watch again.

----------------------------------------

"Fuck aliens." © WarriorPoet415

  

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mista k5
Member since Feb 01st 2006
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Tue Apr-26-22 09:17 AM

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70. "Pretty much"
In response to Reply # 64


  

          

The way he went out was the most satisfying way he could have that would have made sense.

I'm curious to know how Lalo reacts once he finds out or if he will find out.

I do think it would make the Salamanca's go after his dad but reading above I guess Mike took care of that. Will we see Mike actually get Nacho's dad out of town?

  

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Cold Truth
Member since Jan 28th 2004
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Tue Apr-26-22 10:14 AM

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72. "Yeah I don’t think his story ends here"
In response to Reply # 70


  

          

>The way he went out was the most satisfying way he could have
>that would have made sense.
>
>I'm curious to know how Lalo reacts once he finds out or if he
>will find out.
>
>I do think it would make the Salamanca's go after his dad but
>reading above I guess Mike took care of that. Will we see Mike
>actually get Nacho's dad out of town?

I think that thread has a little left to pull

Mike gave his word, and Nacho has grown to trust that.
Mike is basically a superhero, but he has his vulnerabilities

So from Nacho’s standpoint, he made the best choice possible
But he’s gone now, and there are no guarantees

I don’t think that his death guarantees Papi’s safety in an iron clad way- but from Nacho’s perspective, Mike’s word was the highest standard he could attain and be able to feel like his pops is safe

I won’t be shocked if Lalo finds out about Mike’s granddaughter, and puts Mike jn position where he has to trade Papi for Kaylee’s safety.

But I think Gus would help Mike honor his word

Gus has his limits, but it’s clear that he trusts and respects Mike. I think Mike shows enough deference and loyalty that, even when he directly challenges Gus, it ultimately reinforces the reasons Gus hired him to begin with.

But we know Gus is playing the long game with the south, so I think if Papi gets killed, it’s the result of either Mike’s family being threatened, or Gus causing/allowing it to happen in service of his longer goals.

Mike may even kill him as a mercy to deny the Salamanca’s a more sadistic kill

  

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Mynoriti
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75. "going after pops is petty at this point"
In response to Reply # 70


  

          

not saying the Salamanca's wont do it on some fuck you shit, but the whole point of doing it was to punish or leverage Nacho.

if Mike even protects him a little, i don't see them over extending themselves or risking getting their own guys killed to do something that serves no real practical purpose... or has no real punch for them.

  

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Mynoriti
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76. "Yup, plus he told Gus he'd do whatever Gus needed him to"
In response to Reply # 64


  

          

is long as he assured his pops safety. Nacho maximized what little leverage he had by giving Gus as much as he can get out of this.

and damn... thanks for bringing up the Mike backstory, i hadn't considered how much of a factor the father/son dynamic was in how hard he's riding for Nacho.

  

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Brew
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74. "Phone call."
In response to Reply # 62
Tue Apr-26-22 10:52 AM by Brew

          

As soon as the call w/Papi ended I knew it was over for Nacho.

I didn't necessarily think it would happen this episode. But that type of call/conversation is always the kiss of death for major characters.

It was almost *too* much foreshadowing for me haha, like too obvious that it was coming. But the way they handled it at the end of the episode was still the right way, IMO.

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Nodima
Member since Jul 30th 2008
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83. "It was the meal for me"
In response to Reply # 74


  

          

Though like I got into below, because it’s this writing staff and this franchise, when Mike brought out the whiskey a little part of me thought, ah, wait, he’s got a plan…

And I think it’s pretty clear he did! Nacho just sized it up and realized no matter what happened next, he had no interest in that Gene life and didn’t want it for papa either.

~~~~~~~~~
"This is the streets, and I am the trap." � Jay Bilas
http://www.popmatters.com/pm/archive/contributor/517
Hip Hop Handbook: http://tinyurl.com/ll4kzz

  

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Brew
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87. "Word word."
In response to Reply # 83


          

>Though like I got into below, because it’s this writing
>staff and this franchise, when Mike brought out the whiskey a
>little part of me thought, ah, wait, he’s got a plan…
>
>And I think it’s pretty clear he did! Nacho just sized it up
>and realized no matter what happened next, he had no interest
>in that Gene life and didn’t want it for papa either.

Good points.

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Nodima
Member since Jul 30th 2008
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Mon Apr-25-22 11:10 PM

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65. "It's amazing how much tension they can extract from simple intrigue"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

It's so damn hard to make a scene from a prequel truly tense when you know "everybody" involved is gonna come out unscathed and this might be the very best example of how to make that work ever. Specifically because this franchise has always done that neat trick of, "we decided in the writer's room this was our situation, now how do we get out of it?" instead of "we want to get our characters into this situation, how do we put them there?"

It's subtle, but this episode felt like a meta-commentary on the whole thing. Sometimes you absolutely cannot escape the situation you're in, and it felt like this episode was all about Mike, Nacho and Saul realizing that they were all eventually going to die anyway. Nacho might be the only one that gets to do it on his terms 100%. Mike certainly didn't, though he tried to make it feel that way.


~~~~~~~~~
"This is the streets, and I am the trap." � Jay Bilas
http://www.popmatters.com/pm/archive/contributor/517
Hip Hop Handbook: http://tinyurl.com/ll4kzz

  

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Numba_33
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67. "Seeing as how Kim choose to Break Bad similar to Nacho"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

I have a sneaking suspicion she's going to meet as sad an ending as Nacho did, especially since Saul seemingly choose to live in solitude in in the Breaking Bad universe well before he had to go on the run at the end. Not saying that she even dies, almost because I think that would be too obvious with Lalo taking her out, but I have a feeling she's not going to be as clever with the law as she thinks she is and her own hubris will end up bringing her down.

That cold open of Saul's house getting raided and him being all on his own was pretty potent in that regard, outside of all the obvious opulence that was being displayed.

"Sean sparks like John Starks, nah, Sean ball like John Wall" - Rest In Power Forever Sean Price.

  

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allStah
Member since Jun 21st 2014
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Tue Apr-26-22 10:09 AM

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71. "I think she winds up ordering a Hoover Vac. "
In response to Reply # 67
Tue Apr-26-22 10:13 AM by allStah

          

If you go back to the breaking bad scene where Walt asked Saul if
he ever had to order a vac before, and Saul said he had to do it
for a person awhile back, I believe Kim was that person.

Nacho is dead now, and we already know the fate of the other major
characters, so he had to be referring to Kim.....or to Nacho’s father,
but Nacho’s father isn’t the type to run or fear the Cartel, so I don’t
think it applies to him.

Saul survived because he is a lawyer. That’s what lawyers do. They know the
law, and they know how to negotiate and manipulate the law in both worlds (
laws of the court and the laws of the street). I think Kim will have that same fate.

ALL HAIL THE KING of LOSING: LEBRON
Bulls | Bears | White Sox | Yankees | Notre Dame | Illinois | Chelsea | Real Madrid

  

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Brew
Member since Nov 23rd 2002
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Tue Apr-26-22 10:34 AM

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73. "Good catch !"
In response to Reply # 71


          

>If you go back to the breaking bad scene where Walt asked
>Saul if
>he ever had to order a vac before, and Saul said he had to do
>it
>for a person awhile back, I believe Kim was that person.
>
>Nacho is dead now, and we already know the fate of the other
>major
>characters, so he had to be referring to Kim.....or to
>Nacho’s father,
>but Nacho’s father isn’t the type to run or fear the
>Cartel, so I don’t
>think it applies to him.

----------------------------------------

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Mynoriti
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77. "the *only * reason i'm hesitant on this"
In response to Reply # 71


  

          

is that we don't have Forrester anymore. they're not replacing him, so unless he agreed to record some footage knowing they'll need it.
if I remember correctly, he looked pretty ill for the last Gene drop and El Camino.

  

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Brew
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Tue Apr-26-22 11:42 AM

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79. "I think they could find ways around that."
In response to Reply # 77


          

Like just having a phone call without showing him in the shop. Or having a distant shot from the shop with someone who resembles him from afar, etc.

I like the theory and think they could pull it off without "replacing" him or doing a disservice to the storyline/scene(s). In fact I think as a storyline it makes a *ton* of sense and continues Gilligan's habit of constantly tying in important or long-running BB storylines.

----------------------------------------

"Fuck aliens." © WarriorPoet415

  

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Nodima
Member since Jul 30th 2008
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Tue Apr-26-22 01:18 PM

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84. "Yea, Bob had a heart attack between shoots"
In response to Reply # 79
Tue Apr-26-22 01:19 PM by Nodima

  

          

Edit: this was supposed to be a reply to Numba right below. Damn bumpy bus ride!


~~~~~~~~~
"This is the streets, and I am the trap." � Jay Bilas
http://www.popmatters.com/pm/archive/contributor/517
Hip Hop Handbook: http://tinyurl.com/ll4kzz

  

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Numba_33
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81. "Great point."
In response to Reply # 77


  

          

If memory serves me right, the show had to delay shooting these last batch of episodes because of a health scare Odenkirk had. With that in mind, that lessens that chance of Kim getting that Hoover hook up.

"Sean sparks like John Starks, nah, Sean ball like John Wall" - Rest In Power Forever Sean Price.

  

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Brew
Member since Nov 23rd 2002
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85. "Again, I think if it serves the story, they have an obligation to figure..."
In response to Reply # 81


          

And I think that, depending on what happens with the characters in the interim, that there's a good chance that the Hoover storyline probably *does* serve the story, that there may be no way around it.

The writers and directors/producers are too good to just throw up their hands because of the unfortunate passing of the actor. If their original plan was to go the Hoover route with Kim, they'd figure out a way to get the job done without making his absence glaring.

But, I suppose a decent counterargument to what I'm saying could be that if the writers are that good, then they'd be able to find another direction to take Kim's story that serves the series/character and isn't a jarring left turn. I'll leave room for that possibility.

But in the above hypothetical - that the Hoover storyline was their original plan for Kim - I'd prefer they stick with that plan if it's what they believed was the proper ending in the first place, as opposed to changing the ending completely.

But no matter what they decide, I trust them to do it right. I'm not worried.

----------------------------------------

"Fuck aliens." © WarriorPoet415

  

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stravinskian
Member since Feb 24th 2003
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Wed Apr-27-22 04:16 PM

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99. "That's true, but I imagine they could do it without Forster."
In response to Reply # 77


          


In BB, I seem to remember that Saul was pretty clear that he'd never met the guy before. Like I think he was surprised that there was actually a vacuum store. If Kim buys a vacuum, they might just show it from Saul's perspective, where she gets picked up in a mysterious Toyota minivan never to be seen again.

I certainly wish we could have more scenes with Robert Forster, though. The guy was amazing for that part, and for the Sheriff in S3 of Twin Peaks. I want more of both those characters.

  

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Numba_33
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82. "Thus far, Kim has shown a reluctance"
In response to Reply # 71


  

          

in giving up on Breaking Bad when she manages to convinces herself it's for a worthy cause. Her calling for the Hoover hookup as result of one of her schemes not working out or even worse being a source of danger to her would run counter to how her character as behaved so far.

I suppose we'll all have to wait until the Fall to see just how true our guesses are.

"Sean sparks like John Starks, nah, Sean ball like John Wall" - Rest In Power Forever Sean Price.

  

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Brew
Member since Nov 23rd 2002
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Tue Apr-26-22 01:23 PM

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88. "Fair point but I think if it's either that or death she'd take the Hoove..."
In response to Reply # 82


          

Or better yet maybe Jimmy/Saul makes the decision for her to spare her life without her really knowing what she's signing up for.

You can kinda see the constant concern on his face this season when her ideas for the Howard plan are more extreme than his own haha. So I could see a world where he sets her up to be sent away and freed from certain death without her really being "in" on that plan, as a way to save her life even if it kills him not to have her around anymore.

----------------------------------------

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PimpTrickGangstaClik
Member since Oct 06th 2005
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Tue Apr-26-22 11:41 AM

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78. "Am I alone in not caring about the Saul/Kim storyline?"
In response to Reply # 0


          

It feels like two loosely connected shows. Saul and Kim running their pranks. And the cartel business. And right now, only the cartel side is interesting to me.

I'm sure it will all come together soon. But I halfway want to hit fast forward when Saul gets on screen.

_______________________________________

  

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mista k5
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80. "For this episode I completely forgot about Saul and Kim"
In response to Reply # 78


  

          

When they first showed them I was like oh yeah these guys. I'm not sure why they are even going after him. Was this explained or are they only hinting that it will be good for people.

  

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Brew
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90. "I mean the entire series explains it haha."
In response to Reply # 80


          

>When they first showed them I was like oh yeah these guys.
>I'm not sure why they are even going after him. Was this
>explained or are they only hinting that it will be good for
>people.

Specifically season 5.

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mista k5
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98. "yeah i guess so lol"
In response to Reply # 90


  

          

  

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Mynoriti
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86. "not caring is a bridge too far. I'm more engaged by the cartel/crime stu..."
In response to Reply # 78


  

          

as mista_k5 pointed out, this episode in particular was so intense on the Nacho stuff, Saul/Kim pretty much felt like filler.. I wouldn't hold it up as an example of how i always feel tho.

  

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Brew
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89. "Yea I think you're alone lol."
In response to Reply # 78
Tue Apr-26-22 01:37 PM by Brew

          

I think the most impressive part of this show is how the writers have, for basically all 6 seasons, made largely-mundane lawyer drivel seem just as interesting as all the action-packed, thrilling storylines from Breaking Bad.

So even if their story is a little slow *right now* relative to the other half of the show, I've been too interested in the Jimmy/Kim dynamic, and too invested in where their (really, her) story will end up for 5 seasons to be anything other than wholly interested and invested now. I need to know what happens, so I'm on the edge of my seat about every detail even if their story seems a little slower or more "boring" now relative to Nacho/the cartel. The writers have yet to fail any of us for nearly 15 years running now, so you just know that they'll make it all worth it in the end.

So yea - I think you're alone or at least in the very small minority there.

Edit: Full disclosure, I also am not a person who necessarily needs murder and drugs and that type of action to keep me interested in a show. In fact, as I kind of touched upon above, I find it way more impressive when writers are able to keep viewers engaged *without* all that shit.

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PimpTrickGangstaClik
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91. "In past seasons, Saul's shenanigans measured up to the cartel stuff to m..."
In response to Reply # 89


          

This season is different. In the past, it was clear why Saul was doing what he was doing. This time, I don't get it (yet). Are they just having fun? Getting revenge?

Without a clear motivation, it's hard to really care too much. Although Kim's gradual turn is somewhat interesting.

_______________________________________

  

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Nodima
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92. "Kim is getting off on pro bono lawyer work while fucking over big timers"
In response to Reply # 91


  

          

She got a taste of how good it can feel to grift a big dog on the Mesa Verde case, then got an even bigger rush feeling like they got away clean from the cartel with that huge bag. You see how she watches Jimmy every time he takes from that bag, she's watching that rush dwindle away. HHM took the Sandpiper case from them and has it all gummed up in big time lawerly regulations between pals (remember that Schweickert or whatever dude is the defense lawyer and him and Howard are golf buddies and whatnot) so Kim sees the ultimate grift:

Embarrass Howard who has embarrassed both of them multiple times, take back control of the Sandpiper case and get the laywer fee payout on a like 9 or 10 figure settlement and do right by the senior citizens who've been screwed by the system (Kettlemans explosion was a reminder in a way).

I think if this season had come out at the scheduled time it'd be easier to remember/read all that. I admit I had to do like 3 minutes of wiki/recap scanning last week 'cause it felt like a reset in a way for me too. But it's very much the culmination of their relationship/marriage to take Hamlin out or "die" trying.


~~~~~~~~~
"This is the streets, and I am the trap." � Jay Bilas
http://www.popmatters.com/pm/archive/contributor/517
Hip Hop Handbook: http://tinyurl.com/ll4kzz

  

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Brew
Member since Nov 23rd 2002
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93. "You covered what I was gonna say."
In response to Reply # 92


          

I had to go back and revisit or re-read reviews of past seasons as well, to refresh my memory as to their true motivations. But it's all there, as you correctly outlined here.

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stravinskian
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94. "Funny, I'm kinda the opposite."
In response to Reply # 78
Tue Apr-26-22 05:04 PM by stravinskian

          

I enjoy all the cartel stuff, and Nacho is a fantastic character, brilliantly played. And Gus is Gus and Mike is Mike. But deep down the cartel story is getting a little monotonous to me. The twins have completely lost any sense of menace. Hector is still great but kinda predictable at this point. Lalo is fantastic but he hasn't been doing much this season other than sounding angry.

Again, I still enjoy that side of the show, but I feel like the really interesting stuff right now is centered around Kim. I was honestly disappointed that we didn't get more of that this week.

  

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allStah
Member since Jun 21st 2014
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95. "This is why the death of Nacho was premature in my opinion."
In response to Reply # 94


          

We know the conclusion of everyone else, and even though the cartel storyline is
suspenseful and engaging, the familiarity with everyone doesn’t leave room for
a lot of surprises.

Lalo is all that is left of the cartel storyline to keep us wondering , because we don’t know what actually happened to him....It remains a strong story, but Saul/ Kim will
always be the goldmine of the show. There are still so many questions that need
to be answered.





ALL HAIL THE KING of LOSING: LEBRON
Bulls | Bears | White Sox | Yankees | Notre Dame | Illinois | Chelsea | Real Madrid

  

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Brew
Member since Nov 23rd 2002
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97. "Yea exactly. We've lived in that world for 15 years."
In response to Reply # 94


          

>I enjoy all the cartel stuff, and Nacho is a fantastic
>character, brilliantly played. And Gus is Gus and Mike is
>Mike. But deep down the cartel story is getting a little
>monotonous to me. The twins have completely lost any sense of
>menace. Hector is still great but kinda predictable at this
>point. Lalo is fantastic but he hasn't been doing much this
>season other than sounding angry.
>
>Again, I still enjoy that side of the show, but I feel like
>the really interesting stuff right now is centered around Kim.
>I was honestly disappointed that we didn't get more of that
>this week.

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"Fuck aliens." © WarriorPoet415

  

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Nopayne
Member since Jan 03rd 2003
52628 posts
Wed Apr-27-22 04:53 PM

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100. "I dunno, the twins are still pretty terrifying to me."
In response to Reply # 94


  

          

I thought the oil truck scene was really well done. It didn't have the same impact of Hank's ambush but I was still on the edge of my seat.

---
Love,
Nopayne

  

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DJR
Member since Jan 01st 2005
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Tue Apr-26-22 06:47 PM

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96. "the way season 5 ended….I get it"
In response to Reply # 78


  

          

Saul’s desert escapade to get the $7 million with Mike saving him and then Lalo coming to his house and interrogating him. Yeah, that was intense and the Saul/Cartel storylines were one and the same at that point.

So to go seemingly backwards to this…yeah, I’ve been way more tuned into Nacho’s situation.

We’ll see where it goes though. I’m sure it will connect and make sense. These writers have damn near pitched two perfect games in a row.

  

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Sofian_Hadi
Member since Jan 03rd 2003
5628 posts
Wed May-11-22 07:16 AM

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119. "I've slowly moved into this territory. "
In response to Reply # 78


          

The scam in the previous episode was super goofy. This episode with the boxing match just....didnt do anything. Seems like the entire storyline could be cut and it really wouldnt make a difference. I just dont feel Howard is a bad enough character to believe all of this effort theyre putting into it. I guess it all depends on how they finish it, but so far its just meh

---------------------------------------

"The world is before you and you need not take it or leave it as it was when you came in." - James Baldwin

  

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spades
Member since Mar 22nd 2006
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Tue Jul-26-22 10:15 AM

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355. "For me Saul / Kim is the more interesting story."
In response to Reply # 78


  

          

We need the cartel shit for excitement, but slowly watching Kim's heel turn, and WATCHING Jimmy, knowing he feels responsible for turning a good woman bad....

I LOVE that shit.

********************************

Get Out The Room!
http://getouttheroom.podomatic.com
@fakewilliamkatt

"You probably wouldn't worry about what people think of you if you could know how seldom they do!" - Olin Miller

  

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Brew
Member since Nov 23rd 2002
24419 posts
Tue Jul-26-22 10:47 AM

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359. "Likewise. It's all very relatable."
In response to Reply # 355


          

>We need the cartel shit for excitement, but slowly watching
>Kim's heel turn, and WATCHING Jimmy, knowing he feels
>responsible for turning a good woman bad....
>
>I LOVE that shit.

----------------------------------------

"Fuck aliens." © WarriorPoet415

  

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stravinskian
Member since Feb 24th 2003
12698 posts
Mon May-02-22 09:30 PM

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101. "Ep 4 was one 'holy shit' moment after another!"
In response to Reply # 0


          


* The opening scene had me totally confused. I love when they give us some totally surreal thing we won't understand until much later.

* Hamlin in therapy, talking about marriage issues? (He has a life outside of HHM?)

* Cliff politely asks how Jimmy is, lol.

* Wendy! Root beer!

* Spooge! That crystal works quick!

* Kim meets Mike! OMFG! And yes, she is made of sterner stuff.

BTW, I guess we now know that it probably wasn't Lalo who tailed them to the Kettlemans trailer in Ep 2. I'd been starting to wonder why he hadn't gone any further yet. He'll obviously show up in due time, though.

* Gus Fring as the evil Mr Rogers with a Bond villain passageway across the subdivision

* The office!

  

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Nodima
Member since Jul 30th 2008
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Tue May-03-22 12:19 AM

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102. "great direction by Seehorn too"
In response to Reply # 101


  

          

Always one of my favorite traditions, when an awesome show in its final season lets its stars take a stab behind the camera and doesn't miss a beat


That Howard scam was goofy as hell, and I couldn't help but ask how Howard couldn't just use his psychologist's appointment log to prove that wasn't him with the prostitute, but also a great sight gag with the spray tan so whatever!


~~~~~~~~~
"This is the streets, and I am the trap." � Jay Bilas
http://www.popmatters.com/pm/archive/contributor/517
Hip Hop Handbook: http://tinyurl.com/ll4kzz

  

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Cold Truth
Member since Jan 28th 2004
44843 posts
Tue May-03-22 12:36 AM

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104. "The Howard shit was so much fun. But that nagged at me too"
In response to Reply # 102


  

          

>That Howard scam was goofy as hell, and I couldn't help but
>ask how Howard couldn't just use his psychologist's
>appointment log to prove that wasn't him with the prostitute,
>but also a great sight gag with the spray tan so whatever!

That bugged the hell out of me too, but it leads me to believe one of three things:

-That’s just a precursor to something else. This was round two, not the finishing blow.

The goal is to damage his reputation beyond repair, and perception can easily become reality for someone in his position.

-That, or there’s some other trick up their sleeve that will make even the seemingly airtight alibi a hard sell.

But then the third possibility had me rattled:

Howard and Cliff already suspect, well...Chicanery (BOOOM! lol), and are actively watching/waiting, letting Them hang themselves. Howard hasn’t shown that level of ruthless calculation, but it wouldn’t surprise me if the antics of last season put him on high alert, and that foresight is what leads to Kim’s “demise”- not the cartel. Kim get’s overly excited, thus careless, or she flat out overplays her hand, and that’s what does her in.

Or, of course, it was mostly face value and whatever additional wrinkles, they’re minor.

Regardless, I think there’s at least one more layer/angle to that.

  

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Numba_33
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Tue May-03-22 07:22 AM

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105. "The great meta moment in the episode"
In response to Reply # 102


  

          

when Kim's character was angling her chair before the car gag to ensure Ed Begley's character had the perfect angle to see the setup was pretty good.

I have to admit I threw my hands up in the air with the whole parking sign switch up though. That took me out the episode a bit, which of course wasn't Seehorn's fault as she's not a writer on the show.

"Sean sparks like John Starks, nah, Sean ball like John Wall" - Rest In Power Forever Sean Price.

  

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Cold Truth
Member since Jan 28th 2004
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Tue May-03-22 12:22 AM

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103. "Fun ep. they ain’t slick though, I ain’t forget"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

Damn fine effort though, I’ll give them that

This show is such a brilliant balancing act of contrasting elements, it really is two shows in one

The Howard stuff in this one was peak Jimmy. The hair, the tan, the suit, Wendy, right down to the stroke of bad luck that he has to fix with duct tape

But the real kicker here, was the inclusion of Cliff, because it looks like Kim hooked him with his admission about his kid. And this was an episode that further solidified the most pleasant surprise that is Kim Wexler.

I certainly didn’t see her coming when I tuned into that first episode.

And once I saw what a string character she was, I certainly didn’t see her becoming both the angel *and* devil on Jimmy’s shoulder.

Frankly, there are are several credible paths for her from here. But one thing is for certain in my mind, she’s arguably the MVP of the show.

Sure, Bob/Jimmy/Saul is Cap. The anchor. The vet.

But Kim? She’s *Magic*. She’s been serving shit up left and right and now, Cap is playing her game.

And Mike’s right. She’s absolutely made of sterner stuff. Shit, the way.
she stepped to the guys tailing her was just the exclamation mark for that.

I love this show, even if those assholes did kill Nacho.

  

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mista k5
Member since Feb 01st 2006
16414 posts
Wed May-04-22 05:07 PM

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110. "that intro was great"
In response to Reply # 103


  

          

the music sucked you right in. it was funny when saul got in the car and yucked at the music. i was enjoying it when dude parked but someone when it came on with saul in the car i also cringed lol

i cant wait to see the fall out. theyre going to be caught right? im not sure if i want them to be or not.

this show is so good. cant wait for the next episode.

  

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allStah
Member since Jun 21st 2014
9816 posts
Tue May-03-22 10:56 AM

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106. "They went over the top with Saul/Kim’s latest caper "
In response to Reply # 0


          

to try and taint Howard’s reputation.

Jimmy’s liquid tan and hair piece to impersonate Howard was excessive,
and somewhat silly. Jimmy has done some ridiculous things throughout
his life to manipulate people and situations, but this act has to be the most
ridiculous one when it comes to believability. Sure, it was entertaining, but
it hit too much on the corny radar for my taste.

I’ve never seen Gus this shook before. He didn’t even fear the cartel like this
when he was at war with them over his production of meth in Breaking Bad. He
stepped into the line of fire when the cartel was shooting at him, Jesse and Mike.
He gave zero focks. But in Better Call Saul he is scared as hell of Lalo.
He has an entire mercenary unit protecting and watching him wherever he goes.

Maybe their is a history of Lalo that he is familiar with that has him terrified. Lalo
needs an origin story similar to the one we got with Gus. Lalo is the smartest and
the most vicious of all the Salamancas,

ALL HAIL THE KING of LOSING: LEBRON
Bulls | Bears | White Sox | Yankees | Notre Dame | Illinois | Chelsea | Real Madrid

  

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Mynoriti
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Tue May-03-22 11:43 AM

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107. "it was pretty goofy"
In response to Reply # 106


  

          

>to try and taint Howard’s reputation.
>
>Jimmy’s liquid tan and hair piece to impersonate Howard was
>excessive,
>and somewhat silly. Jimmy has done some ridiculous things
>throughout
>his life to manipulate people and situations, but this act has
>to be the most
>ridiculous one when it comes to believability. Sure, it was
>entertaining, but
>it hit too much on the corny radar for my taste.

Yeah, i feel like they timed it to counterbalance how heavy last week ended. As soon as they hit that motel. it was fun and all... but i can't lie, i mostly just wanted to get back to the Gus stuff from the cold open

>I’ve never seen Gus this shook before. He didn’t even fear
>the cartel like this
>when he was at war with them over his production of meth in
>Breaking Bad. He
>stepped into the line of fire when the cartel was shooting at
>him, Jesse and Mike.
>He gave zero focks. But in Better Call Saul he is scared as
>hell of Lalo.
>He has an entire mercenary unit protecting and watching him
>wherever he goes.
>
>Maybe their is a history of Lalo that he is familiar with that
>has him terrified. Lalo
>needs an origin story similar to the one we got with Gus. Lalo
>is the smartest and
>the most vicious of all the Salamancas,
>

Yeah, plus he knows Hector at least knows, which means even though Nacho bought him a bit of goodwill, but he doesn't know who else knows at this point. He doesn't really know if Lalo is gonna surface on his own, or just tell the Cartel.. as you said, he knows Lalo is smart, but not his exact play
Plus Gus knows Juan Bolsa tried to take out Lalo last season. The worst thing for Gus is obviously a full Salamanca take over

  

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Mynoriti
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Tue May-03-22 11:58 AM

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108. "Kim Mike meet was stellar / What's Lalo's play?"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

has me going backwards like, wait, they've met, right?
when she hit up the car, i tought yeah these look like Mike's guys.
so good though

I have ZERO idea what Lalo's play is gonna be here. the great part is neither does Gus as smart as he is. I don't even think Mike has any clue. All they can do is prep.

Gus knows Hector knows... and maybe the twins (even though they don't). He can assume Juan Bolsa doesn't know because Gus knows Bolsa tried to take out Lalo last season... but he doesn't trust Bolsa enough to tell him, and obviously doesn't trust Eladio to tell him. Even if he did, he has no proof.

Does Lalo know (or suspect) it was Bolsa who tried to kill him last season? He's forever suspicious of everyone's motive... i'm sure it at least hit his radar.

Whatever the writers have planned here, i'm thankful for how much smarter they are than i am because i'm pretty clueless here lol. Wonder how Saul will play into all this

  

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allStah
Member since Jun 21st 2014
9816 posts
Tue May-03-22 12:38 PM

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109. "Every scene I’m like where the fock"
In response to Reply # 108


          

is Lalo? We want Lalo! Is he still in Mexico? Did he go back to the shot up car?

This is bullshit. We didn’t get shit in regards to Lalo.

Kim and Mike meeting was so wired to me for some reason, and it was
also weird to Kim. I guess that was what the writers wanted to project.
It worked. Even Kim was like “wait a minute, you’re the parking attendant.”


Fock all that stuff. I want Lalo!

ALL HAIL THE KING of LOSING: LEBRON
Bulls | Bears | White Sox | Yankees | Notre Dame | Illinois | Chelsea | Real Madrid

  

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Nodima
Member since Jul 30th 2008
15302 posts
Tue May-10-22 02:11 AM

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111. "felt like this episode could've gone another half hour...'cause I'm curi..."
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

About too much. What's Howard's play now? What's Kim's play now? Why'd Gus feel all suspect in his soon to be world class meth lab? What's the significance of Werner's parting gift to his wife? Will we her again? Have I ever seen an apartment that looked as expensive on the outside as it looked affordable on the inside? Is Francesca REALLY the person behind Saul's office's gaudy decor? REALLY?


All that and just one episode until we take a few months off. Ugh.


~~~~~~~~~
"This is the streets, and I am the trap." � Jay Bilas
http://www.popmatters.com/pm/archive/contributor/517
Hip Hop Handbook: http://tinyurl.com/ll4kzz

  

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mista k5
Member since Feb 01st 2006
16414 posts
Tue May-10-22 09:39 AM

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112. "They sure set up a lot"
In response to Reply # 111


  

          

I was enjoying it until it ended probably because of the same. I want to know what's next now!

I'm wondering if Jimmy will be aware that Howard has someone tailing him or if they will be able to catch him. I'm guessing Jimmy notices it but Kim tells him about Mike's guys and they assume that's what it is.

Any chance Jimmy agrees to work with the government and all of Breaking Bad he was feeding them intel? I'm sure there's a reason why that's a dumb question lol

What else has Tony Dalton had great/similar performances in? Hawkeye was too goofy but I need to see more of this. Good way to fill my viewing time until the second half of the season.

  

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Mynoriti
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Tue May-10-22 11:20 AM

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114. "I'm guessing Mike's guys clock..."
In response to Reply # 112


  

          

Howard's PI. They're still following them. Mike knows Jimmy and Kim are up to some antics, but they've never seen this guy. If Mike tells Gus there's some rando following Jimmy around, given Gus's current level paranoia, its bad news for that guy... and maybe even Howard if he's in the wrong place.

  

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Cold Truth
Member since Jan 28th 2004
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Tue May-10-22 01:18 PM

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115. "Great catch! I didn’t consider that, but I think you’re dead on."
In response to Reply # 114


  

          

  

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mista k5
Member since Feb 01st 2006
16414 posts
Tue May-10-22 04:11 PM

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116. "that makes sense"
In response to Reply # 114


  

          

  

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mrhood75
Member since Dec 06th 2004
44717 posts
Wed May-11-22 12:44 PM

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122. "Yeah, that's what I guessed too"
In response to Reply # 114


  

          

I could see Howard getting knocked off by Gus, and Kim splitting out of guilt. Or "buying a Hoover vacccum" so she doesn't get tied to anything.

-----------------

www.albumism.com

Checkin' Our Style, Return To Zero:

https://www.mixcloud.com/returntozero/

  

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Numba_33
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Wed May-11-22 03:38 PM

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126. "RE: Yeah, that's what I guessed too"
In response to Reply # 122


  

          

>I could see Howard getting knocked off by Gus, and Kim
>splitting out of guilt. Or "buying a Hoover vacccum" so she
>doesn't get tied to anything.

Part of me doesn't see Howard getting killed; mainly because of how open Jimmy was with the Saul Goodman character in the Breaking Bad universe. I suppose time will tell how wrong I am, but I find it hard for Jimmy to get as famous has he did in the Breaking Bad universe after a big time and fairly visible lawyer like Howard getting killed after tracking him down.

"Sean sparks like John Starks, nah, Sean ball like John Wall" - Rest In Power Forever Sean Price.

  

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Mynoriti
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Fri May-13-22 12:59 PM

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134. "ANOTHER possibility..Mike told Kim to ignore the tail"
In response to Reply # 122
Fri May-13-22 01:03 PM by Mynoriti

  

          

it's possible she assumes it's Mike's guys and not Howard's guy and this blows up whatever trap they're trying to set for Howard.

  

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Mynoriti
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Tue May-10-22 11:12 AM

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113. "2 more episodes. "
In response to Reply # 111


  

          

i also thought it was one more but looks like 2 more before the break.

>Is Francesca REALLY the person
>behind Saul's office's gaudy decor? REALLY?

i too was a bit shocked by this

  

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DJR
Member since Jan 01st 2005
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Tue May-10-22 05:01 PM

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117. "I had to do some reading to remember how Lalo found Margarethe"
In response to Reply # 111


  

          

Season 4 feels like it was a lifetime ago. Forgot about how closely Lalo was snooping around Gus’s operatation, tailing Mike, how he’d talked to Werner on the phone, and that he got info from that travel wire.

I was trying to figure out last night about why he turned up in Germany and happened to meet Werner’s wife. Needed that refresher.

  

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Brew
Member since Nov 23rd 2002
24419 posts
Mon May-16-22 10:25 AM

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139. "Thanks for this."
In response to Reply # 117


          

I thought that came out of nowhere (him being @ her crib) so I'm glad you refreshed my memory on all of this.


>Season 4 feels like it was a lifetime ago. Forgot about how
>closely Lalo was snooping around Gus’s operatation, tailing
>Mike, how he’d talked to Werner on the phone, and that he
>got info from that travel wire.
>
>I was trying to figure out last night about why he turned up
>in Germany and happened to meet Werner’s wife. Needed that
>refresher.

----------------------------------------

"Fuck aliens." © WarriorPoet415

  

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mrhood75
Member since Dec 06th 2004
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Wed May-11-22 12:38 PM

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121. "There's something written on that gift"
In response to Reply # 111


  

          

When Werner's wife comes home and is on the way upstairs, Lalo see the gift, picks it up and looks on the bottom of it real quick. So he probably saw something that's probably going to reconnect things to Gus.

Of course, we know in the longish term in won't matter, because when Breaking Bad starts Gus is still acting with impunity and Hector is largely irrelevant (even if the twins are still dangerous).

-----------------

www.albumism.com

Checkin' Our Style, Return To Zero:

https://www.mixcloud.com/returntozero/

  

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stravinskian
Member since Feb 24th 2003
12698 posts
Wed May-11-22 01:19 PM

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124. ""In Liebe, deine Jungs.""
In response to Reply # 121
Wed May-11-22 01:28 PM by stravinskian

          

"With love, your kids" or "your boys" or "your guys."

Presumably the guys who did the work underground.

Apparently Werner worked with those same guys a lot, enough to be kind of a father figure to them. Next time I rewatch the Werner season I'll be checking to see if he mentions anything about this then. But I do remember that Margarethe mentioned the Jungs when she was talking to Lalo (and her annoyance that none of them showed up to his funeral).

That was where Lalo found out both that those guys were really close to Werner, and something scared them bad -- presumably Gus, as we know.

The trophy didn't give names for the Jungs, but I think it had a label from the place that made it. So presumably Lalo is gonna track that person down and find the Jungs through them. Then all hell breaks loose.

  

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Mynoriti
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Wed May-11-22 03:53 PM

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127. "will it be Kai who gives up the goods?"
In response to Reply # 124


  

          

Kai told Mike he was right to kill Werner, and Mike clocked him for it
The other German shit on Mike to his face for what he did and Mike stood there and took it.

but I don't see the second guy wanting to get back at Mike via the world who killed his friend, though I definitely see Kai being salty enough about Mike hitting him to give Lalo whatever info he wants.

  

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mrhood75
Member since Dec 06th 2004
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Thu May-12-22 12:47 PM

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130. "Kinda has to be"
In response to Reply # 127


  

          

He's the only other one of the Germans that was even a character, or had a name. Plus, like you said, it will be the "irony" of someone who agreed that killing Werner was the right choice to end up fucking with the person who did it.

-----------------

www.albumism.com

Checkin' Our Style, Return To Zero:

https://www.mixcloud.com/returntozero/

  

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stravinskian
Member since Feb 24th 2003
12698 posts
Thu May-12-22 06:47 PM

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133. "Kai will ask to sign up and join the cartel."
In response to Reply # 127


          


And he'll be dead by the end of the episode.

  

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Sofian_Hadi
Member since Jan 03rd 2003
5628 posts
Wed May-11-22 07:09 AM

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118. "This first half of the season has been a letdown. "
In response to Reply # 0
Wed May-11-22 07:14 AM by Sofian_Hadi

          

Outside of Nacho's death this has been shockingly slow and boring for a final season. I dont mean from an action and violence standpoint. I'm just not sure why anyone cares about this Saul vs Howard storyline. It's boring and redundant. With this being the final season, with a break between halves after already having a long hiatus for the show, i'm just shocked it's been a bunch of nothing outside of Nacho. I'm getting in the line of finding it hard to care when Kim and Saul's hijinks story comes on. It seems like the last couple episodes have been "slow and boring but finish with a surprising scene of two characters meeting each other for the first time."

---------------------------------------

"The world is before you and you need not take it or leave it as it was when you came in." - James Baldwin

  

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Mynoriti
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Wed May-11-22 12:36 PM

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120. "understandable. I'm choosing to trust the process "
In response to Reply # 118


  

          

before this season when i checked last season's post, i was complaining about how the show was spinning it's wheels too much. The next epiodes blew my complaints out of the water. I'm not falling into this trap again lol.

I think part of it is the more this show intersects with BB, the more my mind is conditioned to expect Breaking Bad level pace. So the Nacho stuff happens and I'm like, yeah shit is on! Then we're back to Saul and Kim in the bathroom talking about Howard.

I'm not as frustrated as you, I enjoy even the mundane stuff but i definitely understand it.

  

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Sofian_Hadi
Member since Jan 03rd 2003
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Wed May-11-22 09:18 PM

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128. "I think im pissed they split the final season in half"
In response to Reply # 120


          

So we waited two years to even get to the final season, and now the first half has been.....pretending Howard threw a hooker out of a moving car? I hope these last couple episodes knock it out of the park. I'd love to have my mind changed.

---------------------------------------

"The world is before you and you need not take it or leave it as it was when you came in." - James Baldwin

  

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Mynoriti
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129. "the break is only 6 weeks"
In response to Reply # 128


  

          

I have confidence they'll deliver on this

  

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Brew
Member since Nov 23rd 2002
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Mon May-16-22 10:29 AM

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140. "Yes. They haven't let us down once in 15 years."
In response to Reply # 129


          

Even if I'm sorta "meh" on the Jimmy/Kim v. Howard storyline, they're like 100+ episodes in the plus column and maybe 2 in the seemingly-minus. I'll take those odds.

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Numba_33
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125. "I think I'm somewhat in your camp."
In response to Reply # 118


  

          

Letdown would be a bit harsh to describe my opinion, but I'm a bit surprised at how goofy and childish the Howard pranks have been so far. The prior schemes from Jimmy have been a bit more clever than the stuff shown in the prior two episodes.

The writing crew has delivered in the past with dramatic storylines both in the Breaking Bad and Better Call Saul universes, so I'll continue to have faith that things will get better.

"Sean sparks like John Starks, nah, Sean ball like John Wall" - Rest In Power Forever Sean Price.

  

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mrhood75
Member since Dec 06th 2004
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Wed May-11-22 12:48 PM

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123. "I think the endgame for the series is Lalo tracking down Jimmy in..."
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

...Omaha. From "Breaking Bad," we do know that Jimmy knows Lalo isn't dead. And after everything went down in that series, we know Jimmy really is the last person standing with any connection to any of this stuff. Gus, Mike, Gus' henchmen, and all the other drug kingpins are all dead.

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Cold Truth
Member since Jan 28th 2004
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Thu May-12-22 12:53 PM

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131. "Interesting, execept that he mentions Ignacio too. "
In response to Reply # 123


  

          

Saul mentions Nacho and Lalo.

So it's clear now that Saul either is unaware that Nacho is dead in BB, or is referencing something older.

I wouldn't rely to heavily on that BB utterance for much.

But Lalo tracking him down post-BB would be interesting.

  

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Mynoriti
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132. "i'd say they're bound to it somewhat"
In response to Reply # 131
Thu May-12-22 05:01 PM by Mynoriti

  

          

it was obv so random shit they threw out there at the time since Saul as never meant to be a long term character.

but i think since so many people know about that line at this point, that they've already built characters off it, they can't veer from it *too* much.

it's not like, say, Mike's grandaughter who has been the same age for 10 years

  

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Cold Truth
Member since Jan 28th 2004
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142. "Agreed. I’m speaking in terms of guessing whether Lalo is still alive ..."
In response to Reply # 132


  

          

The favt that Saul mentions them, doesn’t really indicate that they’re necessarily still alive. Nacho is dead, I wouldn’t lean on that to tell us whether or not Lalo is alive.

  

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Mynoriti
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144. "ahh, yeah i misunderstood. i think Gus's confidence level alone"
In response to Reply # 142


  

          

in the BB timeline vs now is enough for me to believe Lalo is dead, and that that it was at the hands of Gus or Mike

as cool as it would be the see Lalo in the Gene universe, it's nearly impossible imagine Lalo being alive through the duration of BB. It would also make sense that Saul is out of the loop on this info (Nacho too for that matter).

I also believe there's a missing piece we haven't seen yet that solidifies Mike's loyalty to Gus. Gus does something for him at some point and it may have to do with both Lalo and Mike's family.

  

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stravinskian
Member since Feb 24th 2003
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Mon May-16-22 06:06 PM

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145. "Yeah, Lalo won't make it to the BB era."
In response to Reply # 144


          


Gus's exchange with Hector after he killed Don Eladio would have been very different if Lalo was still alive. There's not much that they say unequivocally in this show, but the way Gus told Hector "The Salamanca name dies with you" doesn't leave much wiggle room.

Whether Saul/Jimmy knows about Lalo's death is a different question. In the Better Call Saul episode of BB, he clearly thought Lalo might still be alive. But given the past history of thinking Lalo's dead and finding out otherwise that doesn't mean much.


Good idea about Gus doing something to earn Mike's trust. I think you might be on to something there. Mike's trust and respect for Gus have clearly been wearing thin lately.

  

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Mynoriti
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146. "Yup. Joaquin Salamanca was the last one"
In response to Reply # 145


  

          

>Gus's exchange with Hector after he killed Don Eladio would
>have been very different if Lalo was still alive. There's not
>much that they say unequivocally in this show, but the way Gus
>told Hector "The Salamanca name dies with you" doesn't leave
>much wiggle room.

Hector's nephew Joaquin was a random soldado that Jesse shot when they were escaping, but Gus was very clear when he broke it down to Hector that it was the only family he had left (luckily for the writers Gus named off Eladio's guys and not all the dead Salmancas lol)

>Good idea about Gus doing something to earn Mike's trust. I
>think you might be on to something there. Mike's trust and
>respect for Gus have clearly been wearing thin lately.

it's definitely one of the more surprising things to find out that they were ever this shaky.
Even bringing Mike back into the fold after he got stabbed felt a bit flimsy. I can't imagine they won't find a way to lock it in.

  

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DJR
Member since Jan 01st 2005
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Mon May-16-22 09:12 PM

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147. "Maybe he was alive in season 2 of BB"
In response to Reply # 146


  

          

but died before Season 4?

  

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Mynoriti
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148. "ha.. nice point. possibly? "
In response to Reply # 147


  

          

before we meet Gus.
BB takes place over a condensed period 2 years (mostly over one year), so the timeline between 2 and 4 is a couple/few months. don't remember how far along Skylar was.

one thing that doesn't bode well for Lalo is that mentions to Hector before he was going back to Mexico that Tuco was getting out soon, and that he was gonna make sure Tuco wasn't getting high.

The episode where we meet Hector, Tuco's cousins (I'm assuming the murder twins) were headed over. Do you remember why? Could it have something to do with Lalo? or was it just to pick up Hector?

  

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DJR
Member since Jan 01st 2005
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149. "RE: ha.. nice point. possibly? "
In response to Reply # 148


  

          

>before we meet Gus.
>BB takes place over a condensed period 2 years (mostly over
>one year), so the timeline between 2 and 4 is a couple/few
>months. don't remember how far along Skylar was.
>
>one thing that doesn't bode well for Lalo is that mentions to
>Hector before he was going back to Mexico that Tuco was
>getting out soon, and that he was gonna make sure Tuco wasn't
>getting high.
>
>The episode where we meet Hector, Tuco's cousins (I'm assuming
>the murder twins) were headed over. Do you remember why? Could
>it have something to do with Lalo? or was it just to pick up
>Hector?

Ha, I’m about to be rewatching BB season 2-4 looking for any possible clues about if Lalo could’ve just died.

  

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Brew
Member since Nov 23rd 2002
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156. "Oh excellent call."
In response to Reply # 145


          

>Gus's exchange with Hector after he killed Don Eladio would
>have been very different if Lalo was still alive. There's not
>much that they say unequivocally in this show, but the way Gus
>told Hector "The Salamanca name dies with you" doesn't leave
>much wiggle room.


>Good idea about Gus doing something to earn Mike's trust. I
>think you might be on to something there. Mike's trust and
>respect for Gus have clearly been wearing thin lately.

^^ also agree here, that's a great call. His loyalty is undying so it has to be related to the family somehow. That's the only thing he cares about.

----------------------------------------

"Fuck aliens." © WarriorPoet415

  

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mrhood75
Member since Dec 06th 2004
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141. "Him mentioning Nacho also tracks."
In response to Reply # 131
Mon May-16-22 12:11 PM by mrhood75

  

          

As in, "I didn't do it! It was the dead guy!" That works with him knowing Lalo was still alive.

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stravinskian
Member since Feb 24th 2003
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Fri May-13-22 01:38 PM

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135. "So, has Gus considered the possibility that Lalo is in Germany?"
In response to Reply # 0


          


When I first watched the episode I thought it was so surprising for Lalo to be in Germany, Gus and Mike couldn't have thought of that. And that still seems to be the implication they're pushing on us.

But then I noticed one of those "explainer" stories online, and the headline referred to the "Spice Curls" scene.

Early in the episode, while Gus was trying to distract himself, he went to work the cash registers. He upsold that guy on their "signature spice curls!" The guy agreed to add them to the order, and then Gus suddenly started to panic and stare into space (until someone dropped some trays and caused a distraction).

At the time, not remembering that there was some evidence to be found for Lalo in Germany, this just seemed like another case of Gus being so worried that he can't think straight.

But in the timeline of the show, Gus visited Germany to introduce the Signature Spice Curls (c) to the Madrigal board and other restaurants just a few weeks earlier.

So was his panic brought on by a thought like "Oh shit, what are we doing about the Germans?!"

It certainly doesn't seem like he's convinced that Lalo is in Germany, because Gus continued to wander around paranoid for the rest of the episode, and didn't (apparently) bring the issue up with Mike. It seems like if he was sure about this he'd have Mike on the next plane to deal with the Jungs.

  

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Mynoriti
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136. "Yeah, Spice Curl orderer likely saved the empire"
In response to Reply # 135


  

          

wouldn't say he's *convinced* but it's a loose end that's fucking him up because he knows Lalo is definitely smart enough to follow that thread.

but time has passed, so sending Mike off to chase this down seems like too big a risk. He's also so much more vulnerable at home without Mike running point.
Even Walt only got to Gus because Mike was sidelined.

  

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stravinskian
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137. "True."
In response to Reply # 136


          


And I guess Gus's trip down to the hole in the ground is a sign that he's thinking about the lab and the fact that Lalo probably wants more evidence about it.

Wouldn't surprise me if by the next episode the whole thing was filled in with dirt again. I don't know how one dramatizes a "missing hole," but I'm sure these guys could do it.

  

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osu_no_1
Member since Feb 26th 2003
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Fri May-13-22 11:00 PM

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138. "Absolutely "
In response to Reply # 135


  

          

Notice what he did after going back to the lab….checked the light cord and measured paces over to the excavator where he hid the gun. He’s expecting Lalo to track him there. He might even lure Lalo there at this point.

  

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Mynoriti
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150. "Can't lie, I'm getting a kinda impatient now"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

it's probably the being accustomed to penultimate episodes really popping, and this kinda felt like another wheel spinning set up episode. similar to last week.

I really don't need to see the film school kids again. More Lalo, please. Fuck them kids

We got our first hint of Best Quality Vacuum. Also, i'm gonna assume Mike's instincts are correct to watch his fam. Still thinking whatever happens here will solidify his undying loyalty to Gus.

it's not as concerning knowing the break is only 6 weeks but still the pacing feels a bit off.

  

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Nodima
Member since Jul 30th 2008
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Tue May-17-22 03:24 AM

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151. "first time in a long time I was totally caught off guard a TV ep was ove..."
In response to Reply # 150


  

          

Especially because I'm watching on the AMC app this season and it has a weird habit of putting the Next Week On...teaser before the end credits half the time and I've never watched those in my life, plus the app's kinda janky in general so I wasn't sure it hadn't popped accidentally at first.


I wish they'd just done this mid-season finale as a kind of TV movie if it was gonna get sliced this way. I'd take 7 weeks off in return for wrapping up whatever this is because unlike some of y'all I'm really curious what the play is.


~~~~~~~~~
"This is the streets, and I am the trap." � Jay Bilas
http://www.popmatters.com/pm/archive/contributor/517
Hip Hop Handbook: http://tinyurl.com/ll4kzz

  

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Mynoriti
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Tue May-17-22 12:43 PM

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165. "i'm definitely curious what the play is"
In response to Reply # 151


  

          

it just feels dragged out. mentioned before but think part of it is having BB and Saul converge. BB was at such a constant "Holy fuck, what now?" pace, and Saul has alwasys been more of a slow burn. The more the show veers into the former, the more impatient i feel for the latter.

>I wish they'd just done this mid-season finale as a kind of TV
>movie if it was gonna get sliced this way. I'd take 7 weeks
>off in return for wrapping up whatever this is because unlike
>some of y'all I'm really curious what the play is.

  

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stravinskian
Member since Feb 24th 2003
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Tue May-17-22 08:31 AM

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152. "Personally, I love the slow burn."
In response to Reply # 150


          


I actually think this was my favorite episode of the season so far, just because every storyline (except Nacho, I guess) is in a state of maximum tension and uncertainty. I actually wondered for a few seconds if Lalo was gonna die! (And then ... oh yeah, it's Lalo.)

I do kinda worry that they might have placed too much dramatic burden on the "D-Day" event. I have almost no idea what's gonna happen in that conference room, but for two episodes now they've pretty much openly said this is gonna be the most surprising turn in either series.

Unrelated: all those references to Nebraska and Omaha in this episode seem like more misdirection. It's making me suspicious of my long-held assumption that Gene would unite with Martha (or whatever her name might be) in the end. I'm starting to think Kim might not make it that far. Omaha might be a state of mind.

  

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Brew
Member since Nov 23rd 2002
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Tue May-17-22 10:16 AM

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158. "I like the slow burn too, but the storyline isn't all that convincing an..."
In response to Reply # 152


          

But as I mentioned in a couple other posts I trust this showrunning team/the writers so much that I'm all but certain I'll be happy and/or blown away by the time it's all wrapped up.


>I actually think this was my favorite episode of the season so
>far, just because every storyline (except Nacho, I guess) is
>in a state of maximum tension and uncertainty. I actually
>wondered for a few seconds if Lalo was gonna die! (And then
>... oh yeah, it's Lalo.)
>
>I do kinda worry that they might have placed too much dramatic
>burden on the "D-Day" event. I have almost no idea what's
>gonna happen in that conference room, but for two episodes now
>they've pretty much openly said this is gonna be the most
>surprising turn in either series.

Wait huh what now ? What are you referring to in that last sentence ? Did someone say this in an interview ?

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stravinskian
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Tue May-17-22 11:10 AM

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161. "Nah, nothing so explicit."
In response to Reply # 158


          

I mean I guess I remember seeing some headlines weeks ago with people saying midseason would be bleak and shocking.

But as for my comment, I guess the "pretty much" was doing a lot of work there. I just meant things like how Kim gets so serious, and Jimmy gets so anxious, whenever they allude to what they're really planning. Like when Jimmy complained about how silly it felt to turn around and box Howard, and Kim implies that he felt bad for Howard, because he "knows what's coming." Or the sketch of a mushroom cloud on one of the Post-it notes. Or the fact that (as everyone keeps noting with increasing annoyance), the majority of five of the six episodes so far have been cryptically devoted to setting up this one moment. They're calling it D-Day to remind the audience that this isn't just supposed to be a pivotal moment, it's a moment that Jimmy and Kim have spent months very carefully planning. (And from what little military history I know: the D-Day invasion also involved a massive misdirection campaign, with Patton commanding an army of mostly inflatable decoy tanks.)

And as you said below, we really don't know WHY Kim is so obsessed with this. Howard was kind of a dick to her for a few episodes last season, but it doesn't make sense for this all to be about that. It's starting to feel to me like the goal is just pure destruction, and Jimmy sees it but he's too scared to say it.

They reminded us about her childhood, and I've been saying I expect that to loom large in her motivations. But there's a lot to fill in between "Mom was okay with me stealing earrings." and "I want to destroy a powerful but silly man, who paid for my legal education, just because I can. And I'll even throw away the biggest opportunity I've ever had, doing good work that I can be proud of, just so that I can be sure this goes to plan."

The fact that it doesn't make sense is what makes it so intriguing for me.

  

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Brew
Member since Nov 23rd 2002
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Tue May-17-22 11:16 AM

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162. "Gotcha. Good explanation, I get what you're saying."
In response to Reply # 161


          

I just read this review of the episode which I also think clarified some of the motivations for me, and also put a lot of the "what the hell is taking so long" into some perspective.

https://www.avclub.com/better-call-saul-review-season-6-episode-6-axe-and-g-1848934303

(Unrelated, but in addition to this observation from the above article:

"Saul star Giancarlo Esposito made his TV drama directorial debut with 'Axe And Grind,' and one of my favorite single shots of the season so far is when Jimmy sends Kim off to Santa Fe for her meeting with the Jackson-Mercer Foundation people, and in the background is a view of two crossed wires, looking like they’re making an X over Kim and Jimmy’s apartment. I suppose that could just be a coincidence, or it could mean there’s more trouble ahead at Casa McGill."

... there was also the moment when Jimmy and Kim kissed after she told him about the meeting for the foundation, a kiss which was abruptly ended by Casper's axe, which seemingly came down right in between Jimmy and Kim. That was jarring. I wonder what, if anything, they're foreshadowing with these two camera tricks. Or if it's a red herring type of directorial decision.


>I mean I guess I remember seeing some headlines weeks ago
>with people saying midseason would be bleak and shocking.
>
>But as for my comment, I guess the "pretty much" was doing a
>lot of work there. I just meant things like how Kim gets so
>serious, and Jimmy gets so anxious, whenever they allude to
>what they're really planning. Like when Jimmy complained about
>how silly it felt to turn around and box Howard, and Kim
>implies that he felt bad for Howard, because he "knows what's
>coming." Or the sketch of a mushroom cloud on one of the
>Post-it notes. Or the fact that (as everyone keeps noting with
>increasing annoyance), the majority of five of the six
>episodes so far have been cryptically devoted to setting up
>this one moment. They're calling it D-Day to remind the
>audience that this isn't just supposed to be a pivotal moment,
>it's a moment that Jimmy and Kim have spent months very
>carefully planning. (And from what little military history I
>know: the D-Day invasion also involved a massive misdirection
>campaign, with Patton commanding an army of mostly inflatable
>decoy tanks.)
>
>And as you said below, we really don't know WHY Kim is so
>obsessed with this. Howard was kind of a dick to her for a few
>episodes last season, but it doesn't make sense for this all
>to be about that. It's starting to feel to me like the goal is
>just pure destruction, and Jimmy sees it but he's too scared
>to say it.
>
>They reminded us about her childhood, and I've been saying I
>expect that to loom large in her motivations. But there's a
>lot to fill in between "Mom was okay with me stealing
>earrings." and "I want to destroy a powerful but silly man,
>who paid for my legal education, just because I can. And I'll
>even throw away the biggest opportunity I've ever had, doing
>good work that I can be proud of, just so that I can be sure
>this goes to plan."
>
>The fact that it doesn't make sense is what makes it so
>intriguing for me.

----------------------------------------

"Fuck aliens." © WarriorPoet415

  

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stravinskian
Member since Feb 24th 2003
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Tue May-17-22 12:00 PM

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163. "Yeah and I get why so many are becoming impatient."
In response to Reply # 162
Tue May-17-22 12:14 PM by stravinskian

          

So many of the pieces just don't fit together yet. So whether it's all worth it will depend on whether they bring fire next week (and, to a lesser extent, later on in the season). That's why I said higher up that I'm worried they might have raised the stakes too far.

But it seems like all of us agree that this team has the rare capacity to tie up impossible stories in a satisfying way. So I'm mostly just excited to see how they do it.

EDIT: Oh and yeah I just rewatched that shot with Caspar chopping wood. Somehow I didn't notice it the first time, but I think you're absolutely right. What it'll mean is hard to predict. This is real postmodern cinema. Dramatic foreshadowing still works, but we in the audience are always looking for it (especially in episodic TV). And they know we're looking for it, and we know they know we're looking for it. So now we get to see it, savor it, make up little stories in our own heads, and wonder for another week whether it's all a red herring.

  

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Numba_33
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Tue May-17-22 08:39 AM

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153. "I'm hoping"
In response to Reply # 150


  

          

>We got our first hint of Best Quality Vacuum.

the writers and show runners won't be this on the nose with foreshadowing the use of the vacuum service for Kim. That would be a bit too much IMO.

"Sean sparks like John Starks, nah, Sean ball like John Wall" - Rest In Power Forever Sean Price.

  

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Mynoriti
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Tue May-17-22 11:09 AM

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160. "Yeah they were a bit too deliberate in having Saul clock it"
In response to Reply # 153


  

          

it makes me think you may be right with the foreshadowing, as opposed to just a quick easter egg. It seems like something where they would normally just leave us at "ah shit, was that...?"

>>We got our first hint of Best Quality Vacuum.
>
>the writers and show runners won't be this on the nose with
>foreshadowing the use of the vacuum service for Kim. That
>would be a bit too much IMO.

  

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Numba_33
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Thu May-19-22 10:55 AM

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192. "At whim, I watched a breakdown for this week's episode"
In response to Reply # 160


  

          

on Youtube and according to the breakdown, the little black book was one of the times the FBI was sifting through during Jimmy's/Saul's raid.

It appears I am unfortunately wrong. If Kim does in fact use the vacuum service, it would have been more impactful if it came up out the blue rather than such an obvious and up front reference to it. IMO, it's not something that Breaking Bad folks need a reminder of since it was such an major story point from the last Breaking Bad season plus it was used in that El Camino movie as well.

Would be interesting if the vacuum is a red herring just to throw viewers off.

"Sean sparks like John Starks, nah, Sean ball like John Wall" - Rest In Power Forever Sean Price.

  

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mista k5
Member since Feb 01st 2006
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Tue May-17-22 09:34 AM

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155. "Yeah I didn't enjoy this episode at all"
In response to Reply # 150


  

          

I felt very impatient the whole time "get to the point!!" Next week looks like it will be a big one though.

This one felt like most of the episode would have worked as cutaways in other episodes. Didn't feel like there was one main story this episode that kept you interested.



I'm confused about a few things. Did Jimmy somehow know that Howard would hire the PI to take pictures and that's why they set it up this way? Is it just a coincidence? Why does Kim need to be physically there to make it happen that day??

It was kind of good seeing Lalo take a hit. I had wondered if there was any chance he would be taken out in that scene but I figured not. That fake out was savage though.

  

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Mynoriti
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Tue May-17-22 12:37 PM

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164. "i *thnk* so?"
In response to Reply # 155


  

          

>I'm confused about a few things. Did Jimmy somehow know that
>Howard would hire the PI to take pictures and that's why they
>set it up this way? Is it just a coincidence? Why does Kim
>need to be physically there to make it happen that day??

it seems they wanted to make it look like Jimmy was paying off the judge. they planned on Howard being on to them (minus the boxing part), so i guess they assumed his next move would be to have them followed by his investigator. The broken arm threw a wrench in it. I have no idea what the larger plan is though and how it all comes together.

>It was kind of good seeing Lalo take a hit. I had wondered if
>there was any chance he would be taken out in that scene but I
>figured not. That fake out was savage though.

yeah i considered for a second he could fall, i was like nahh. can't be.. can it? lol

  

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mista k5
Member since Feb 01st 2006
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Tue May-17-22 12:49 PM

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166. "RE: i *thnk* so?"
In response to Reply # 164


  

          

What I'm thinking is that Jimmy knows the PI and actually had him introduce himself to Howard before all this. That's how Jimmy expected it and how he had the photos.

If Jimmy had someone else take the photos and it has nothing to do with the PI then I don't know. Maybe Jimmy and the gang retake the shots with the fake cast but when they send them in Howard has the first (and I guess second) photos that didn't have the cast from his PI so more proof against Jimmy.

Next week is sure to be fun.

If Lalo had been taken out in the woods I think fans would had rioted but it would have been kind of funny.

  

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Mynoriti
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Tue May-17-22 12:56 PM

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168. "yeah i forgot Jimmy was looking at the photos"
In response to Reply # 166


  

          

so you're probably right

>If Lalo had been taken out in the woods I think fans would had
>rioted but it would have been kind of funny.

lol yeah

  

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Brew
Member since Nov 23rd 2002
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Tue May-17-22 01:38 PM

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169. "Oh great call."
In response to Reply # 166


          

>What I'm thinking is that Jimmy knows the PI and actually had
>him introduce himself to Howard before all this. That's how
>Jimmy expected it and how he had the photos.

----------------------------------------

"Fuck aliens." © WarriorPoet415

  

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Brew
Member since Nov 23rd 2002
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Tue May-17-22 09:57 AM

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157. "Haha yea this episode made me think "maybe this storyline *is* stale""
In response to Reply # 150


          

I was thinking of everyone in here who said the Kim/Jimmy storyline was awful, and starting to agree, while watching last nite. Not only in terms of what you said about this episode being seemingly pretty redundant, but also in terms of what was said previously about their Howard Hate being totally unreasonable/kinda unbelievable.

Cuz unless I'm forgetting something, Howard isn't nearly *THAT BAD* that Kim would torpedo an absolutely incredible opportunity just to finish the "D-Day" (horrible name, too) job, or whatever.

I dunno. Last nite's episode was prolly my least favorite of the entire series, but maybe I'll have my foot in my mouth when it's all over.


>it's probably the being accustomed to penultimate episodes
>really popping, and this kinda felt like another wheel
>spinning set up episode. similar to last week.
>
>I really don't need to see the film school kids again. More
>Lalo, please. Fuck them kids
>
>We got our first hint of Best Quality Vacuum. Also, i'm gonna
>assume Mike's instincts are correct to watch his fam. Still
>thinking whatever happens here will solidify his undying
>loyalty to Gus.
>
>it's not as concerning knowing the break is only 6 weeks but
>still the pacing feels a bit off.

----------------------------------------

"Fuck aliens." © WarriorPoet415

  

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Sofian_Hadi
Member since Jan 03rd 2003
5628 posts
Wed May-18-22 08:23 AM

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174. "Exactly. That's why it's so confusing. "
In response to Reply # 157
Wed May-18-22 08:24 AM by Sofian_Hadi

          

Howard may be annoying but in no way was he ever bad enough, or do anything evil enough, to make this storyline believable. It's just not authentic. As a viewer i have zero reason to believe Howard deserves this or that Kim would be this committed to going after Howard.

---------------------------------------

"The world is before you and you need not take it or leave it as it was when you came in." - James Baldwin

  

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Numba_33
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Tue May-17-22 08:42 AM

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154. "Giancarlo used some great camera angles"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

in last night's episode. Hopefully he will get to direct more TV dramas going forward. Some of the shots from last night's episodes were top notch. Specifically, I'm referring to the opening scene with Howard and his wife and one specific shot of Saul's front door signage making a shadow on the wall when Kim visited Saul's office late at night.

"Sean sparks like John Starks, nah, Sean ball like John Wall" - Rest In Power Forever Sean Price.

  

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Brew
Member since Nov 23rd 2002
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Tue May-17-22 10:20 AM

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159. "Speaking of the opening scene @ Howard's house ..."
In response to Reply # 154


          

... wasn't that the same house that was in the opening scene of the season, which seemingly had all of Saul's shit in it ?


>in last night's episode. Hopefully he will get to direct more
>TV dramas going forward. Some of the shots from last night's
>episodes were top notch. Specifically, I'm referring to the
>opening scene with Howard and his wife and one specific shot
>of Saul's front door signage making a shadow on the wall when
>Kim visited Saul's office late at night.

----------------------------------------

"Fuck aliens." © WarriorPoet415

  

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Mynoriti
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Tue May-17-22 12:51 PM

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167. "i don't think it was but i'm not 100%"
In response to Reply # 159


  

          

I don't have AMC so i've been watching these with someone else, so i can't go back and check lol.

One thing i did notice in the way they shot the Howard house with the dark hallway and the kitchen, reminded so much of a much nicer version of the Walt/Skylar house.

>... wasn't that the same house that was in the opening scene
>of the season, which seemingly had all of Saul's shit in it ?

but damn if you're right, that's some shit lol

  

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Brew
Member since Nov 23rd 2002
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Tue May-17-22 01:41 PM

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170. "I'll have to go back and watch each scene, it's killing me hah."
In response to Reply # 167


          

And I can't find anything online about it.

I'll report back.

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"Fuck aliens." © WarriorPoet415

  

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stravinskian
Member since Feb 24th 2003
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Tue May-17-22 02:01 PM

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171. "I actually think you might be right on this. "
In response to Reply # 170


          


I dismissed this idea at first, but the more I think of what we saw of these two places, the more plausible it seems.

That front driveway area, where someone carried a cutout of Saul to a dumpster, that looked pretty similar to what we saw of the driveway (in very different lighting) when Jimmy was throwing the bowling balls over the wall. I'll have to rewatch and see if they had a shot in the kitchen in ep 1; I think that would settle things.

It could be that they shot in the same house just to save money and/or time, and they don't mean for it to represent the same house in the show. But it could also be one last insult to Howard. I guess it sounds like Howard and his wife are moving quickly toward a divorce, which will probably mean selling that house (just since it's so big and probably too valuable to subdivide the assets).

  

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Brew
Member since Nov 23rd 2002
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Tue May-17-22 02:29 PM

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172. "IIRC, they showed that exact same driveway view last nite !"
In response to Reply # 171
Tue May-17-22 02:36 PM by Brew

          

>That front driveway area, where someone carried a cutout of
>Saul to a dumpster, that looked pretty similar to what we saw
>of the driveway (in very different lighting) when Jimmy was
>throwing the bowling balls over the wall. I'll have to rewatch
>and see if they had a shot in the kitchen in ep 1; I think
>that would settle things.
>
>It could be that they shot in the same house just to save
>money and/or time, and they don't mean for it to represent the
>same house in the show. But it could also be one last insult
>to Howard. I guess it sounds like Howard and his wife are
>moving quickly toward a divorce, which will probably mean
>selling that house (just since it's so big and probably too
>valuable to subdivide the assets).

^^^ this is kinda what I got to thinking during that whole scene last nite.

And like I said in the subject line, what made me think of this was that I am pretty sure the opening of this season (the emptying of Saul's house) showed the exact same view of the driveway (or close to it) as they did last nite when the scene in Howard's house began, like just before they switched to the kitchen scene. I didn't even think of the bowling balls thing but you may be right about that as well. I'm just talking ep1's opening scene from this season vs. last nite's ep.

I'm like 75% sure this is the case. Obviously I assume Saul's house was a little more ... gaudy (IIRC, the columns were in gold lol) but I can't get it out of my head.

I'm gonna firm this up tonite and report back haha. This would be possibly my best independently-made catch ever on a show, especially since I can't really seem to find anyone else online who's mentioned it. So I'm selfishly hoping I'm right for that reason more than anything else haha.

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"Fuck aliens." © WarriorPoet415

  

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Brew
Member since Nov 23rd 2002
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Thu May-19-22 10:12 AM

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186. "Update: it is absolutely *not* the same house lol."
In response to Reply # 172


          

The way the house/driveway wraps is like, sorta similar ? But I imagine that's just the way a lot of rich people houses are built in NM, or something.

Sorry for wasting your time haha.

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Sofian_Hadi
Member since Jan 03rd 2003
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Wed May-18-22 07:35 AM

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173. "They literally could have made the last 3 eps into one episode. "
In response to Reply # 0
Wed May-18-22 07:53 AM by Sofian_Hadi

          

This is def the lowest quality season so far (which is still better than most other shows, i think?). But this season has been a massive draaaaaaaaaaag. I dont see how the final episode makes up for it. This Howard storyline is just a massive L. No one can convince me they actually care about how it plays out, besides the Kim ending. Lalo being MIA most of the season and then running around Germany for a couple scenes is also meh. Saul has always been a slow burn but the storylines never felt like they could be tossed completely or condensed until this first half of episodes.

---------------------------------------

"The world is before you and you need not take it or leave it as it was when you came in." - James Baldwin

  

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Sofian_Hadi
Member since Jan 03rd 2003
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Wed May-18-22 08:27 AM

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175. "This storyline is actually making me root for Howard over Saul"
In response to Reply # 173


          

It's just not believable that Howard deserves any of this.

---------------------------------------

"The world is before you and you need not take it or leave it as it was when you came in." - James Baldwin

  

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Brew
Member since Nov 23rd 2002
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Wed May-18-22 08:45 AM

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176. "Haha right ! Christ."
In response to Reply # 175


          

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Mynoriti
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Wed May-18-22 12:21 PM

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177. "Yeah, been saying that for a minute. I mean Howard's kinda douchey"
In response to Reply # 175


  

          

but it's hard to think of anything he's actually done to deserve all this smoke.

If i remember right the big reveal in earlier seasons is that it Chuck used Howard to be the bad guy holding Jimmy back, when it was Chuck all along.

Plus we're getting more glimpses of Howard as a real person (his therapy, his home life). We see Jimmy was at least initially uncomfortable in going this hard against him.

but I'm not convinced this some kind of miscalculation on the writer's part. They're doing this by design but i don't know what their play is

  

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Brew
Member since Nov 23rd 2002
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Wed May-18-22 12:34 PM

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179. "True. Only thing giving me confidence."
In response to Reply # 177


          

>but I'm not convinced this some kind of miscalculation on the
>writer's part. They're doing this by design but i don't know
>what their play is

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DJR
Member since Jan 01st 2005
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Wed May-18-22 05:35 PM

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180. "I think that’s the point "
In response to Reply # 175


  

          

While he is charismatic, he’s a scumbag and they’re showing that transformation is pretty much complete.

  

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Sofian_Hadi
Member since Jan 03rd 2003
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Wed May-18-22 06:12 PM

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181. "Yeah that was the only thing I could get from it."
In response to Reply # 180


          

The viewer is supposed to slowly come to terms with the fact that Howard hasn't done anything to deserve this and Saul has transformed into somewhat of a scumbag. On his way to full blown scumbag. I'm assuming Kim will change her mind or bring about her own downfall.

---------------------------------------

"The world is before you and you need not take it or leave it as it was when you came in." - James Baldwin

  

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Brew
Member since Nov 23rd 2002
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Thu May-19-22 10:14 AM

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187. "To this point tho, Kim's been more gung ho about the plan ..."
In response to Reply # 181


          

>The viewer is supposed to slowly come to terms with the fact
>that Howard hasn't done anything to deserve this and Saul has
>transformed into somewhat of a scumbag. On his way to full
>blown scumbag. I'm assuming Kim will change her mind or bring
>about her own downfall.

... than Jimmy/Saul has. So IMO, the *result* of whatever d-day is, will be what turns Saul full SAUL, while Kim may go a different direction or, something worse/else.

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pretentious username
Member since Jun 18th 2010
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Thu May-19-22 10:28 AM

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190. "I think Kim gets disbarred"
In response to Reply # 187


  

          

Whatever happens, they won’t have proof on Saul (hence why he’s still practicing law just fine in Breaking Bad), but I think Kim is getting disbarred and maybe even going to jail.

  

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Brew
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Thu May-19-22 10:44 AM

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191. "Hm yea that's a great call. She's been more frontline in the plan ..."
In response to Reply # 190


          

... like sitting with what's his name for lunch.

Jimmy hasn't been seen.

Good prediction.

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stravinskian
Member since Feb 24th 2003
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Wed May-18-22 07:01 PM

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182. "^^^ Good point. "
In response to Reply # 180


          


While I still think there'll be a deeper motivation that might be revealed (a deeper motivation for Kim; I think Jimmy's motivation is simply that he can't bring himself to say no to Kim), we do have to remember that a central part of this plan is to force an immediate Sandpiper settlement. Kim might want to do that because the old people deserve their money before they die. Jimmy might want to do that because he makes (IIRC) over 2 million dollars when the settlement comes in.

And if they're willing to destroy Howard to reach those simple ends, it might just mean that Jimmy's the fuckfuck that we always knew him to be (borrowing a phrase from the latest episode of Barry), and Kim is thinking in "ends justify the means" mode.

  

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Brew
Member since Nov 23rd 2002
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Thu May-19-22 10:16 AM

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188. "Yes yes yes this."
In response to Reply # 182


          

>While I still think there'll be a deeper motivation that might
>be revealed (a deeper motivation for Kim; I think Jimmy's
>motivation is simply that he can't bring himself to say no to
>Kim)

^^^ great observation. I think that's exactly right. Jimmy's been apprehensive about this thing the entire time. Kim has been the one bringing the full energy.


>we do have to remember that a central part of this plan
>is to force an immediate Sandpiper settlement. Kim might want
>to do that because the old people deserve their money before
>they die. Jimmy might want to do that because he makes (IIRC)
>over 2 million dollars when the settlement comes in.

YES - you may have just answered all of the skepticism above from me and others. This is likely the true motivation behind all their vitriol for Howard, because that money is what all their future plans are dependent on. So while I think they certainly have it in for Howard, they're going harder than he deserves because they're motivated by the payout.

Great call.


>And if they're willing to destroy Howard to reach those simple
>ends, it might just mean that Jimmy's the fuckfuck that we
>always knew him to be (borrowing a phrase from the latest
>episode of Barry), and Kim is thinking in "ends justify the
>means" mode.

Right. I agree with you. Mad at myself for not considering this part.

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stravinskian
Member since Feb 24th 2003
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Thu May-19-22 11:10 AM

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193. "I was missing it too."
In response to Reply # 188
Thu May-19-22 11:24 AM by stravinskian

          

I don't know if this was intentional on the writers' part or not, but I think in all the coverage of the machinery of the scheme, they allowed us to lose sight of this kinda technical motivation. But they've spent a lot of time setting this up.

Back to Barry Corbin's house and how it blew up everything with Mesa Verde last season. And in the "carrot and stick" episode in this season, how she was so clearly sad to see those old people getting scammed by the Kettlemans, and came out with such fury against them (and mocked Jimmy for still paying them off, rather than leaving them totally destroyed).

She doesn't want the law to be a tool for powerless people to be exploited by a system that wasn't set up for them. I think that's a near direct quote from her. And what she's seeing in this Sandpiper case (and she mentioned it late last season) is that the big law firms have all the information and all the power, and their motivations are different from the motivations of the people who got scammed. The lawyers have been talking like holding out to maximize the settlement is just how these things work. And it is, but Kim sees that that doesn't make it okay. The firms have no motivation to hurry it along, but the victims most definitely do.

Given all the tension between her and Howard, and maybe especially since Howard facilitated her legal education, and even tried to pay it off after she left. Howard, for her, is the face of the system that's exploiting those retirees, turning them into pawns as one wealthy organization is trying to fleece another wealthy organization. She's wondering what her life is about and she sees Howard (who made her who she is) keeping these old people from their settlement without even realizing it's a problem.

This line of thinking just made me look up Kim's exchange with Cliff Main in episode 6, on a bench in the courthouse hallway, when Cliff asks Kim how she left things with Howard. Initially I heard her response, as I think most people did, as a way to claim magnanimity and make sure Cliff isn't suspicious of her or Jimmy's motivations. And I think for Cliff it worked that way. But now that I'm thinking about how she might be thinking of the law as a tool of injustice, it reads very differently:

"I wouldn't be here today if it wasn't for Howard. I wouldn't be an attorney, I wouldn't have met my husband. I owe Howard, and HHM, a lot."

  

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mrhood75
Member since Dec 06th 2004
44717 posts
Thu May-19-22 12:34 PM

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194. "RE: ^^^ Good point. "
In response to Reply # 182


  

          

>
>While I still think there'll be a deeper motivation that might
>be revealed (a deeper motivation for Kim; I think Jimmy's
>motivation is simply that he can't bring himself to say no to
>Kim), we do have to remember that a central part of this plan
>is to force an immediate Sandpiper settlement. Kim might want
>to do that because the old people deserve their money before
>they die. Jimmy might want to do that because he makes (IIRC)
>over 2 million dollars when the settlement comes in.
>
>And if they're willing to destroy Howard to reach those simple
>ends, it might just mean that Jimmy's the fuckfuck that we
>always knew him to be (borrowing a phrase from the latest
>episode of Barry), and Kim is thinking in "ends justify the
>means" mode.

I **REALLY** hope they don't make this Kim's motivation. Any iteration of "Kim is a vanguard of the people who is doing the wrong thing for the right reasons" would just be... dull. It removes any of her complexities as a character.

Besides, when she put this plan in motion last season, she phrased it as taking down Howard, rather than helping the seniors of Sandpiper. And hey, she actually had the chance to go and really advance her cause for giving a voice to the voiceless in her area of the country, but she's chucking it in favor of fucking up ?Howard's life RIGHT NOW. Like Jimmy tells her, D-Day could be put on hold, but she somehow feels the need to ruin Howard immediately.

There's something else going here. And at least there needs to be, or else this story really will be disappointing.

-----------------

www.albumism.com

Checkin' Our Style, Return To Zero:

https://www.mixcloud.com/returntozero/

  

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Brew
Member since Nov 23rd 2002
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Thu May-19-22 12:42 PM

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195. "Yea I'd agree that both motivations are kinda weak."
In response to Reply # 194


          

>There's something else going here. And at least there needs to
>be, or else this story really will be disappointing.

But my point above was that both of them combined I think make it a little more believable.

But I get what you're saying overall for sure and am mostly with you.

----------------------------------------

"Fuck aliens." © WarriorPoet415

  

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stravinskian
Member since Feb 24th 2003
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Thu May-19-22 01:56 PM

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197. "It definitely won't be that simple. "
In response to Reply # 194


          


Or: I agree with you, it shouldn't be that simple.

What I'm envisioning is that the noble motives are a cover for something deeper. It might be how she explains it to herself, it might be how the writers keep everything as morally ambiguous as this show needs to be (it would be dull for her to be the vanguard of the people, but it would also be dull if she's just an evil spiteful bitch who brought down poor Jimmy McGill).

  

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Brew
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198. "Right. I trust them."
In response to Reply # 197


          

----------------------------------------

"Fuck aliens." © WarriorPoet415

  

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mrhood75
Member since Dec 06th 2004
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Thu May-19-22 05:01 PM

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199. "I agree. But it would also be dull if it was..."
In response to Reply # 197


  

          

..."She's a vanguard of the people, but Jimmy McGill steered her wrong and corrupted her." And they "Rosebud" that you mentioned above can't just signify the defining moment where Jimmy turned her to the darkside.

There has to be nuance with both of them. It can't be just one of them makes the either do terrible things.

-----------------

www.albumism.com

Checkin' Our Style, Return To Zero:

https://www.mixcloud.com/returntozero/

  

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stravinskian
Member since Feb 24th 2003
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Thu May-19-22 06:14 PM

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200. "Agreed. "
In response to Reply # 199


          

I don't think we've seen any sign that they're gonna say that one person turned the other person bad, or good, or whatever. Kim has her background, motivations, weaknesses, and virtues, and Jimmy has his. The tragedy, I assume, will be in how they all collide.

This show got me to hate Chuck and revere Chuck and feel bad for Chuck and laugh dismissively at Chuck, sometimes all in a single episode, and that's how it is for most characters. I don't have any concerns about them going one-dimensional with this.

I should clarify my "rosebud" comment. I *don't* think the significance of the Zafiro stopper is that it was where Jimmy turned her to the dark side. In Citizen Kane, Rosebud was a symbol of lost innocence. I think the Zafiro stopper represents that for Jimmy. The scam they played on 'Ken Wins' was all for fun and nobody really got hurt (a conspicuously well-off asshole stockbroker probably got a $700 tab with his lunch, hardly a big deal). It was a game, and it brought Kim and Jimmy closer. The current scheme is not a game, as they go to great pains to tell us. And it'll presumably be the beginning of the end of Jimmy and Kim's relationship and maybe even her life. From what I remember of that stopper in other episodes, Jimmy grabs it when his life gets too complicated. It's a symbol of the life he was forced to leave behind.

  

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Mynoriti
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178. "i absolutely care how the howard thing plays out, but i agree on the pac..."
In response to Reply # 173
Wed May-18-22 12:27 PM by Mynoriti

  

          

pure speculation but it feels like they had a 10 season planned and somehow were told/convinced to stretch it into a split season so they had to drag some stuff out.

  

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Mafamaticks
Member since Jan 12th 2004
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Wed May-18-22 09:49 PM

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183. "Anybody else sick of these pretentious ass intros?"
In response to Reply # 0
Wed May-18-22 09:50 PM by Mafamaticks

  

          

where we get the backstory of a butterknife that goon number 3 picked up to make a sandwich later in the episode?

Shit was cool when the bunny fell in the pool in BB but I'm over all these now

  

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Mynoriti
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184. "LOL love 'em"
In response to Reply # 183


  

          

>where we get the backstory of a butterknife that goon number
>3 picked up to make a sandwich later in the episode?
>

  

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Brew
Member since Nov 23rd 2002
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Thu May-19-22 10:17 AM

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189. "Haha nah I love them. I went back and watched the ep1 intro last nite .."
In response to Reply # 183
Thu May-19-22 10:19 AM by Brew

          

... and noticed the black book was in said intro, which I hadn't noticed before. In other words while it seems overdone at this point, their attention to detail is one of the top .. 2 ? reasons the show is as good as it is.

----------------------------------------

"Fuck aliens." © WarriorPoet415

  

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Beamer6178
Member since Jan 09th 2006
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Thu May-19-22 01:53 PM

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196. "that broken glass in the desert hit different...."
In response to Reply # 183


  

          

>where we get the backstory of a butterknife that goon number
>3 picked up to make a sandwich later in the episode?
>
>Shit was cool when the bunny fell in the pool in BB but I'm
>over all these now

  

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Nodima
Member since Jul 30th 2008
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Fri May-20-22 02:42 AM

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201. "I'm such a non speculative person that a recap pod blindsided me"
In response to Reply # 0
Fri May-20-22 02:44 AM by Nodima

  

          

With what seems like a pretty obvious scenario for what D-Day actually is. I'll be really surprised if the writers set all this up for a swerve from what those two laid out pretty clearly as the plan.


I won't even hint at what they put together (if anyone doesn't mind speculation, it's The Ringer's Prestige TV feed), but in retrospect it also fuels something ANOTHER recap pod I listen to said recently, that it's hard to get too wrapped in in whether a particular plotline is dragging or not because ultimately, it's not about the meal but the time we get to spend with this experience.


Better Call Saul is gonna end this year, and there's not gonna be a show that's so meticulous about itself, let alone looks like this show looks (like, why is this still by far the most clever cinematography on television after 15 years?) , for likely quite a long time after it's gone. I'm choosing to be grateful that the show is finding excuses to linger, even if it's not making for an immediate classic season.


I think it's also worth remembering that in many ways the last season of Breaking Bad succumbed to the nature of its storytelling and felt a little try hard just as often as it turned in series-classic episodes. Saul just operates at such a different RPM that if it's falling to some of the same shortcomings it can't possibly be as exciting in the moment.


~~~~~~~~~
"This is the streets, and I am the trap." � Jay Bilas
http://www.popmatters.com/pm/archive/contributor/517
Hip Hop Handbook: http://tinyurl.com/ll4kzz

  

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DJR
Member since Jan 01st 2005
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Mon May-23-22 09:15 PM

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202. "Holy shit"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

  

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stravinskian
Member since Feb 24th 2003
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Mon May-23-22 09:20 PM

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204. "Mother fucker!"
In response to Reply # 202


          


I didn't see that coming.

  

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mista k5
Member since Feb 01st 2006
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Mon May-23-22 11:02 PM

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206. "RE: Holy shit"
In response to Reply # 202


  

          

When Howard knocked I was wondering if it was gonna end up being Lalo. When that candle dimmed it still hit though. Then boom.

Definitely wondering what they do now. How is Lalo going to use them? Is Howard's body reported or taken care of? Is this what makes Kim leave? I figure she's going to be in most of the rest of the season but who knows.

When the mediation scene happened I felt kinda dumb because it all came together in a way that seemed so obvious. It was fun seeing it work but that ending just took all of that away.

This wait is not going to be fun.

  

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PimpTrickGangstaClik
Member since Oct 06th 2005
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Mon May-23-22 09:16 PM

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203. "Meh. Shocking ending, but meh"
In response to Reply # 0


          

Howard isn't important enough for his death to be a climax.

I agree with everything Howard was saying. I can't remember what he did to them that he deserved their torment.

Lalo has turned into an unrealistic villain. He's like the cartel James Bond

_______________________________________

  

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mista k5
Member since Feb 01st 2006
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Mon May-23-22 11:11 PM

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208. "It's not really about Howard though"
In response to Reply # 203


  

          

As much as they've worked to build up sympathy for him it's about how his death will impact Kim and Jimmy. What consequences will this bring? Will this push Kim's guilt past a line?

The other part is now they know Lalo is alive. What will he make them do?

  

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Mynoriti
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210. "exactly "
In response to Reply # 208


  

          

was way more about Kim and Saul than Howard himself. As it is he didn't deserve what they did to him, but now it's next level

  

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Numba_33
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215. "Another potential layer of guilt for Kim"
In response to Reply # 208


  

          

is that she knew Lalo was alive but didn't tell Jimmy/Saul all this time.

"Sean sparks like John Starks, nah, Sean ball like John Wall" - Rest In Power Forever Sean Price.

  

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Brew
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Tue May-24-22 08:29 PM

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225. "Oh shit I forgot about that. Whoa."
In response to Reply # 215


          

Very likely huge implications for the last 6 eps, that part of the story. I forgot about that.


>is that she knew Lalo was alive but didn't tell Jimmy/Saul
>all this time.

----------------------------------------

"Fuck aliens." © WarriorPoet415

  

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Brew
Member since Nov 23rd 2002
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Tue May-24-22 08:28 PM

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224. "Yes."
In response to Reply # 208


          

----------------------------------------

"Fuck aliens." © WarriorPoet415

  

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Brew
Member since Nov 23rd 2002
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Tue May-24-22 08:27 PM

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223. "This is exactly why I loved that scene tho."
In response to Reply # 203


          

>I agree with everything Howard was saying. I can't remember
>what he did to them that he deserved their torment.

Because the stuff Howard was saying to them needed to be said. Shit we were saying almost exactly everything he said word for word in this very post lol. So I'm glad that even the writers realized that there needed to be a moment for that to be vocalized. And the payoff was worth it IMO.


>Lalo has turned into an unrealistic villain. He's like the
>cartel James Bond

Nah he's great.

----------------------------------------

"Fuck aliens." © WarriorPoet415

  

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stravinskian
Member since Feb 24th 2003
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Tue May-24-22 08:41 PM

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230. "Exactly."
In response to Reply # 223


          


People are talking like it's some sort of writing oversight that Jimmy and Kim have become immoral people. It's kinda the point of the entire series.

  

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Numba_33
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205. "One thing I didn't understand."
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

How did Lalo figure out at that exact moment underground that Gus was tapping Hector's phone?

Have to say that Howard felt more like a plot device than a character the way he pretty much spelled out how Jimmy/Saul and Kim operated. I hope the last six episodes are more subtle than this batch of episodes were.

"Sean sparks like John Starks, nah, Sean ball like John Wall" - Rest In Power Forever Sean Price.

  

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mista k5
Member since Feb 01st 2006
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Mon May-23-22 11:07 PM

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207. "It was the static"
In response to Reply # 205


  

          

My first thought was that it was the FBI but obviously Lalo thought it was Gus and it was.

I understand what you mean about Howard. It seems like this whole season he's been right on track on seeing though everything though. Except for the PI but even them he was able to figure that out quick when he realized he was played.

Did they show what actually happened with the pictures? When I watched it definitely seemed like the PI didn't took the pictures once Howard had them but I might had not paid attention.

  

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Mafamaticks
Member since Jan 12th 2004
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Mon May-23-22 11:13 PM

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209. "He heard the clicks on the phone."
In response to Reply # 205


  

          

"Still do the Fred Astaire on a brick. Tap, tap. Throw the phone when you hear it click" (c) Pusha T

  

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Numba_33
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216. "Thanks."
In response to Reply # 209


  

          

I assumed the click the button pressed to transfer the call to Hector's line, but that makes sense.

"Sean sparks like John Starks, nah, Sean ball like John Wall" - Rest In Power Forever Sean Price.

  

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Brew
Member since Nov 23rd 2002
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Tue May-24-22 08:32 PM

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226. "Yep I always have subtitles on and even then it took me a second lol."
In response to Reply # 209


          

It said "line clicks" and I had to think on it for a second when he started wigging out. Very subtle.

----------------------------------------

"Fuck aliens." © WarriorPoet415

  

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mista k5
Member since Feb 01st 2006
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Wed May-25-22 04:22 PM

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238. "the roach confused me"
In response to Reply # 209


  

          

i watched a recap video and they explained that lalo has called saul a roach when speaking to kim before. totally missed that connection.

if i remember correctly lalo called hector, heard the click and hung up. got mad, threw stuff then saw the roach and the light bulb went off for the misdirection.

maybe the roach thing was obvious to others but i thought it was a nice touch that i had missed.

  

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stravinskian
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Wed May-25-22 04:44 PM

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239. "Oh shit yeah! I hadn't noticed that. "
In response to Reply # 238


          


I just rewatched the scene and you're right. Though he saw the cockroach after the second call.

So he sent the fake signal to Mike, saw them roll out, then he stood around for a few seconds to figure out what he was gonna do now that Gus's guys are distracted, and then he saw the cockroach and thought of Saul.

  

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Brew
Member since Nov 23rd 2002
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Thu May-26-22 08:51 AM

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246. "Oh wow."
In response to Reply # 238


          

>i watched a recap video and they explained that lalo has
>called saul a roach when speaking to kim before. totally
>missed that connection.
>
>if i remember correctly lalo called hector, heard the click
>and hung up. got mad, threw stuff then saw the roach and the
>light bulb went off for the misdirection.
>
>maybe the roach thing was obvious to others but i thought it
>was a nice touch that i had missed.

----------------------------------------

"Fuck aliens." © WarriorPoet415

  

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Mynoriti
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Tue May-24-22 12:18 AM

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211. "now I can see why they"
In response to Reply # 0
Tue May-24-22 12:19 AM by Mynoriti

  

          

developed Howard more this season.
Not to make us super invested in him but it was already at a point where it was pretty much universal that he didn't deserve what Jimmy and Kim were doing to him. Like he said it was just a game to them that they got off on, and their reasoning was that even if they were extra, Howard is a privileged douche who will ultimately be fine.. they were already feeling a little guilty in those last moments just before, then got reality checked in the realest way possible.

  

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allStah
Member since Jun 21st 2014
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Tue May-24-22 02:41 AM

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212. "I’m glad the Nacho character was killed off early "
In response to Reply # 0


          

so we didn’t have to see that character morph into something
unrealistic.

They have exaggerated the Lalo character quite a bit, to where the actions of the character go beyond realism. The journey to Germany, where he chops off a man’s
leg, to returning to New Mexico like some special operations agent to spy on Gus
Fringe, were a bit much for me. There are limits to being a drug lord, regardless of
how charming and lethal he is.

I did enjoy the HHM and Sandpiper scene. It was well acted. Patrick Fabian is
a beast of an actor. However, Lalo splitting his cabbage made for a very odd
killing. It was weird to say the least.

Now the show is on a one month hiatus, which makes zero sense for a show
in its final season. The past few episodes has caused the show to lose some
of its sheen. It’s still a great show, but the writers got too cute with this season.







ALL HAIL THE KING of LOSING: LEBRON
Bulls | Bears | White Sox | Yankees | Notre Dame | Illinois | Chelsea | Real Madrid

  

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Nodima
Member since Jul 30th 2008
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Tue May-24-22 04:22 AM

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214. "Lalo has tipped over the "Omar jumps from fifth floor" territory"
In response to Reply # 212


  

          

I thought for sure he got knocked in the abdomen by the blade side of the axe by the German. To be honest, I'm not sure why that dude would go broadside? Paired with the (IMO) poorly staged and excruciatingly drawn out search for the guy, it felt so weird that Lalo wasn't cut in fucking half by that dude.


These things might happen, and I bring up Omar only because whenever I see something on TV and think it's absolutely unbelievable, I have to remind myself that it's pretty well documented (at least in street lore, for what it's worth) that real life Donnie Andrews jumped from even higher than Omar Little did in the show so...ok?! But much like that jump in season 5 of The Wire (and most of McNutty's goofy shit that season) Lalo's behavior and outcomes feel drawn from a need to make "interesting" TV rather than just tell stories rooted in what feels like a real world, no matter how constructed that world ultimately is being a scripted drama.


~~~~~~~~~
"This is the streets, and I am the trap." � Jay Bilas
http://www.popmatters.com/pm/archive/contributor/517
Hip Hop Handbook: http://tinyurl.com/ll4kzz

  

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allStah
Member since Jun 21st 2014
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Tue May-24-22 03:06 PM

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220. "Exactly."
In response to Reply # 214


          

The guy was basically a German lumberjack in physique, and clearly he
had the upper hand. Lalo being victorious in that situation, and laughing
off a brutal strike to the ribs with an axe handle, completely jump into
the realm of silliness.

ALL HAIL THE KING of LOSING: LEBRON
Bulls | Bears | White Sox | Yankees | Notre Dame | Illinois | Chelsea | Real Madrid

  

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stravinskian
Member since Feb 24th 2003
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Tue May-24-22 03:50 PM

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221. "Well, we don't know how brutal it was."
In response to Reply # 220


          


Lalo had reason to exaggerate his reaction while he was on the ground. When he got up all he said was that he might have a broken rib. This probably means that Caspar hit him with the blunt side of the axehead, hoping he could scare him away or at least incapacitate him.

Caspar is basically a construction worker. Even with physical strength, I doubt he was interested in killing a guy with an axe, even in self-defense.

  

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allStah
Member since Jun 21st 2014
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Tue May-24-22 06:39 PM

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222. "Lalo turning into Jason Voorhees and cutting the German’s"
In response to Reply # 221
Tue May-24-22 06:47 PM by allStah

          

foot off, and then telling him to take his belt and rope his leg so he doesn’t
bleed out, were realistic, too?

No. That scene from beginning to end was too elaborate, to the point
where it didn’t even have any entertainment value because it was simply
unrealistic.

A Mexican Drug lord embodying the abilities of James Bond and Jason Voorhees
while in the country of Germany is far outside of my reality zone.....

ALL HAIL THE KING of LOSING: LEBRON
Bulls | Bears | White Sox | Yankees | Notre Dame | Illinois | Chelsea | Real Madrid

  

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stravinskian
Member since Feb 24th 2003
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Tue May-24-22 08:39 PM

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229. "Oh shit was there a hockey mask?! I missed that."
In response to Reply # 222


          

I don't know what Jason Voorhees's skills are. But as you already noted: if you have an axe it's entirely possible to chop someone's foot off. All you need is to be willing to do it, and it's no surprise that Lalo would be willing to do that and Caspar wouldn't.

I also don't know what "James Bond" skills you're saying he has. I haven't noticed any exploding pens, or rockets in his car, or anything like that. He surprised a guy with a razor blade, but that's not exactly something you need Q to cook up.

It seems like his main skill is that he has no qualms about killing people, which is quite realistic for a "drug lord", and that he's always a little bit smarter than whoever he tangles with, which, again, isn't particularly unrealistic.


And the fact that he's in Germany? How is that so implausible? Even in the early 2000's, it was possible to book a flight, at a moment's notice, on a variety of carriers. I think they might have even had Travelocity by then.

  

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allStah
Member since Jun 21st 2014
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Tue May-24-22 09:00 PM

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231. "See post #203"
In response to Reply # 229


          

“Cartel James Bond”

Like that poster described, just a lot of unrealistic actions with Lalo’s characters
that makes it more silly than entertaining.

A Mexican drug lord moving in and out of spaces in Germany like a CIA agent just
doesn’t hit the reality bill.....

We agree to disagree.



ALL HAIL THE KING of LOSING: LEBRON
Bulls | Bears | White Sox | Yankees | Notre Dame | Illinois | Chelsea | Real Madrid

  

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Mynoriti
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Wed May-25-22 01:19 PM

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234. "i hear you but the BB universe is not exactly dipped in realism"
In response to Reply # 212


  

          

from Walt blowing up Tuco's bulding to a car with a squeegee, to his convieniently placed and timed super gun in the final moments of the series.

Jesse outshooting cartel soldiers because he's good at video games.

Mike kills cartel soldiers like ants. In the real world he'd more likely be a Sandpiper resident

the whole premise of BB is kind of absurd. it's part of why it's been so fun

I don't think Super Lalo veers all that much from this world.

  

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Brew
Member since Nov 23rd 2002
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Wed May-25-22 01:47 PM

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236. "Couldn't agree more."
In response to Reply # 234


          

>from Walt blowing up Tuco's bulding to a car with a squeegee,
>to his convieniently placed and timed super gun in the final
>moments of the series.
>
>Jesse outshooting cartel soldiers because he's good at video
>games.
>
>Mike kills cartel soldiers like ants. In the real world he'd
>more likely be a Sandpiper resident
>
>the whole premise of BB is kind of absurd. it's part of why
>it's been so fun
>
>I don't think Super Lalo veers all that much from this world.

----------------------------------------

"Fuck aliens." © WarriorPoet415

  

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Nodima
Member since Jul 30th 2008
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Tue May-24-22 02:50 AM

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213. "I've said it before, these guys can yank tension out of an empty bag"
In response to Reply # 0
Tue May-24-22 03:14 AM by Nodima

  

          

It's what I'll miss most about this show/franchise, even if the beat by beat loses me a bit, I just love the little things the cinematographers choose to focus on, the goofy slices of life the writers lean in to, the ways their two interests tend to fuel both plot and fan speculation in a way that pay off rarely matters...and yet, the goal, ultimately, is payoff. The structure of this episode in particular felt like it was cribbing, without ever outright jacking, from Made Men season 3-5. The ways in which legal procedure, office politics and good TV can mingle to make men in suits interesting.


Also glad they gave Patrick Fabian an episode (and, kinda, season) to fully star in because it would've felt odd if he was only ever the robot attorney with a passion for incense he may or may never indulge in? (Also, I came to this post buzzed and stoned enough I had to Google "what are the smelly sticks weed guys burn" to remember the word "incense", and I loved that).


Given this is a half season, and a final season, and a post-COVID season after 2 years off, AND a job during which it's easy to forget the principle star suffered a heart attack mid-production (The Ringer's recaps of Barry episodes with Bill Hader have made it more clear than ever how important re-shoots are to tying episodes together in post, so I can't help but project Odenkirk's health issues altered something somewhere among many other pandemic related health concerns)


...I think they nailed what they've done so far. Maybe I also mentioned this in this thread, maybe not, but despite feeling a bit in the skids for the past three episodes I'd never argue this isn't greatly entertaining TV, and more importantly I'm happy to just spend more time listening to these actors (and non-actors) deliver these scripts while the directors/cinematographers frame 'em. Even weird, dumb minutiae like seeing the hoop lights on the HHM conference table again just feels...comforting.


As for the Salamanca side of things...I'll wait for more posts. But I agree with myself (lol) that the primary negative of this half season is the understanding that now we wait 6 weeks for more. I do think for a show that's usually so good about telling without showing (or showing in a way that feels like telling) Lalo has been egregiously misplayed this season in a way that makes the infusion of neo-nazis into season 5 of Breaking Bad feel subtle by comparison. THAT BEING SAID...*nods head vigorously in the direction of the back stretch*

~~~~~~~~~
"This is the streets, and I am the trap." � Jay Bilas
http://www.popmatters.com/pm/archive/contributor/517
Hip Hop Handbook: http://tinyurl.com/ll4kzz

  

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Brew
Member since Nov 23rd 2002
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Tue May-24-22 08:37 PM

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228. "Yea I'm with you."
In response to Reply # 213


          

----------------------------------------

"Fuck aliens." © WarriorPoet415

  

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DJR
Member since Jan 01st 2005
18638 posts
Tue May-24-22 10:09 AM

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217. "Did Mike pull his guys off Saul’s spot?"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

I thought he said he pulled them from some places when he was talking to Gus about setting the trap for Lalo. Can’t remember exactly what he said though.

  

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pretentious username
Member since Jun 18th 2010
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Tue May-24-22 10:54 AM

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218. "I don’t think he mentioned Saul’s place specifically, but yeah"
In response to Reply # 217


  

          

They left a couple guys at the laundromat and everyone else went to Gus’s house.

  

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Mynoriti
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Tue May-24-22 11:23 AM

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219. "good catch. yeah he did"
In response to Reply # 217


  

          

  

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Brew
Member since Nov 23rd 2002
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227. "Oh word good call."
In response to Reply # 217


          

----------------------------------------

"Fuck aliens." © WarriorPoet415

  

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mrhood75
Member since Dec 06th 2004
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Wed May-25-22 01:01 PM

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233. ""We're pulling everyone off the low-priority targets""
In response to Reply # 217


  

          

Which I figured was telegraphing Lalo showing up to visit Mike's family, since they made it a point to show him remarking about Mike being at the laundry facility.

-----------------

www.albumism.com

Checkin' Our Style, Return To Zero:

https://www.mixcloud.com/returntozero/

  

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Mynoriti
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Wed May-25-22 01:34 PM

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235. "i thought this is where they were going as well"
In response to Reply # 233


  

          

>Which I figured was telegraphing Lalo showing up to visit
>Mike's family, since they made it a point to show him
>remarking about Mike being at the laundry facility.


Yeah, plus that whole Mike vs Tyrus showdown over it

  

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stravinskian
Member since Feb 24th 2003
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Wed May-25-22 02:15 PM

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237. "Yeah, really masterful writing."
In response to Reply # 235


          


I think that whole thing about Alameda street was just a ruse to make sure we weren't tempted to realize that the Lalo story and the Jimmy/Kim/Howard story would eventually overlap. It really maximized the surprise when Lalo eventually showed up. I've been (obviously) paying a silly amount of attention to this show, like a lot of us in here, I'd seen and dismissed that photo of Patrick Fabian with blood in his hair, and in that reveal I was just as shocked and speechless as Jimmy and Kim.

  

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Mynoriti
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Wed May-25-22 07:47 PM

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240. "i'm glad i didn't know about this"
In response to Reply # 237


  

          

>
> like a lot of us in here, I'd seen and dismissed
>that photo of Patrick Fabian with blood in his hair

i never saw the picture, and i purposely turned off the podcast referenced in here last week, when they were speculating on the finale... which i just found out they referenced that photo when they were making predictions.

  

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stravinskian
Member since Feb 24th 2003
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Wed May-25-22 07:55 PM

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241. "I only saw it a few weeks ago."
In response to Reply # 240


          


But I literally remember thinking "That must not be blood. Maybe it's fake and they're trying to make us speculate. But nobody in the 'Howard story' would even carry a gun, and they have to clear up all the loose ends about his divorce. So there's no way that Howard could just be shot."

I literally thought it couldn't be Howard because those two stories are separated and his story wasn't finished yet. I fell for it hook, line, and sinker.

  

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Brew
Member since Nov 23rd 2002
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Thu May-26-22 08:52 AM

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247. "Me too, christ."
In response to Reply # 240


          

----------------------------------------

"Fuck aliens." © WarriorPoet415

  

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Sofian_Hadi
Member since Jan 03rd 2003
5628 posts
Wed May-25-22 12:37 PM

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232. "They're ruining this show. "
In response to Reply # 0


          

All of that caper build up just to have Howard get shot in the head by the show's new super duper outlandish villain. Outside of Nacho's death and storyline you could skip this entire first half of the final season and the story would still be in the same spot.

We had like four episodes of monotony with this Saul-Kim storyline just to have Howard take one in the brain. Im guessing this is supposed to be Kim's great turning point? Or she gets murked. I've lost interest outside of the coming Bryan Cranston cameo.

No one can honestly tell me they'd sit and re-watch these episodes without getting bored and skipping to the end.

---------------------------------------

"The world is before you and you need not take it or leave it as it was when you came in." - James Baldwin

  

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Sofian_Hadi
Member since Jan 03rd 2003
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Wed May-25-22 09:55 PM

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242. "Maybe that was a bit harsh. I'm just underwhelmed."
In response to Reply # 232


          

I expected more from this first half. And that's the issue with splitting seasons in half.

---------------------------------------

"The world is before you and you need not take it or leave it as it was when you came in." - James Baldwin

  

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Nopayne
Member since Jan 03rd 2003
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Thu May-26-22 01:09 PM

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250. "I made the (wise) choice to wait and binge."
In response to Reply # 242


  

          

I would have waited until the second half was over as well but I could see that the Twitter crowd was starting to leak too many plot points.

---
Love,
Nopayne

  

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A Love Supreme
Member since Nov 25th 2003
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Wed May-25-22 10:25 PM

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243. "Lalo is De Niro in Cape Fear now."
In response to Reply # 232


          

  

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Sofian_Hadi
Member since Jan 03rd 2003
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Thu May-26-22 07:44 AM

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244. "Lmao. Perfect comparison."
In response to Reply # 243


          

---------------------------------------

"The world is before you and you need not take it or leave it as it was when you came in." - James Baldwin

  

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Beamer6178
Member since Jan 09th 2006
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Thu May-26-22 08:07 AM

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245. "I know folks raining on Lalo, but let's think about it"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

He's a tall, handsome, light skinned, bilingual man who speaks perfect English and can bury his accent. White people love that shit. Drug czar so false identity is an occupational reality. He is patient yet deliberate. He doesn't draw unnecessary attention to himself. He spent hours talking to Werner's wife, made it to her house, then rather than trying to kill her, he got valuable information. He knew that killing a rich somebody would invite far more attention and scrutiny than not. Again, he does not draw unnecessary attention to himself. Especially in a negative manner.

What will be interesting is to see how the most cunning of the Salamancas doesn't make it into Breaking Bad.

  

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Cold Truth
Member since Jan 28th 2004
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Thu May-26-22 11:28 AM

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248. "He's the Salamanca's Mike. "
In response to Reply # 245


  

          

I have no beef with everyone being given elevated, damn near superhuman levels of everything. Walt set that precedent in S1, and every major player since has basically been Extremely Competent Operator On Steroids, with the exception of Nacho and Jesse.

Lalo's cunning is the perfect foil for Mike, who has basically been a superhero the entire show.

  

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Mynoriti
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Thu May-26-22 01:53 PM

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251. "Yup. Mike's a geriatric action hero "
In response to Reply # 248


  

          

and we all love him for it.

i think because Saul is more low key than BB, people forgot how ridiculous so many things in Breaking Bad are if you actually look at it (and we're veering more and more into that world). You got Mike singlehandedly knocking off entire death squads, outsmarting assassins with Kaylee's toys, giant magnets, train robberies. Poisoning the entire leadership of a cartel at a party. Even Nacho and Jesse have had their action hero badass moments (thinking Nacho at the hotel).

But people in here like "No way Lalo could jump onto a car like that.. i call bullshit!" lol



>I have no beef with everyone being given elevated, damn near
>superhuman levels of everything. Walt set that precedent in
>S1, and every major player since has basically been Extremely
>Competent Operator On Steroids, with the exception of Nacho
>and Jesse.
>
>Lalo's cunning is the perfect foil for Mike, who has basically
>been a superhero the entire show.

  

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allStah
Member since Jun 21st 2014
9816 posts
Thu May-26-22 02:45 PM

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253. "LOL"
In response to Reply # 251


          


>But people in here like "No way Lalo could jump onto a car
>like that.. i call bullshit!" lol
>
>
>

ALL HAIL THE KING of LOSING: LEBRON
Bulls | Bears | White Sox | Yankees | Notre Dame | Illinois | Chelsea | Real Madrid

  

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Brew
Member since Nov 23rd 2002
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Thu May-26-22 03:28 PM

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254. "Exactly right."
In response to Reply # 251
Thu May-26-22 03:31 PM by Brew

          

And Gus had half his face blown off by a paraplegic who rings a bell to communicate. Things weren't quite as endlessly realistic as folks in here wanna make them seem.

All of this season has been par for the BB Universe course.


>and we all love him for it.
>
>i think because Saul is more low key than BB, people forgot
>how ridiculous so many things in Breaking Bad are if you
>actually look at it (and we're veering more and more into that
>world). You got Mike singlehandedly knocking off entire death
>squads, outsmarting assassins with Kaylee's toys, giant
>magnets, train robberies. Poisoning the entire leadership of a
>cartel at a party. Even Nacho and Jesse have had their action
>hero badass moments (thinking Nacho at the hotel).
>
>But people in here like "No way Lalo could jump onto a car
>like that.. i call bullshit!" lol

----------------------------------------

"Fuck aliens." © WarriorPoet415

  

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Mynoriti
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Thu May-26-22 04:32 PM

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255. "mugfucker got blown up and straightened his tie, man"
In response to Reply # 254


  

          

  

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Brew
Member since Nov 23rd 2002
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Fri May-27-22 08:58 AM

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257. "lol"
In response to Reply # 255


          

----------------------------------------

"Fuck aliens." © WarriorPoet415

  

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Sofian_Hadi
Member since Jan 03rd 2003
5628 posts
Thu May-26-22 12:49 PM

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249. "He shot a rich somebody in the head in a living room...."
In response to Reply # 245


          

---------------------------------------

"The world is before you and you need not take it or leave it as it was when you came in." - James Baldwin

  

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Beamer6178
Member since Jan 09th 2006
6379 posts
Fri May-27-22 03:10 PM

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258. "after hearing rich somebody talk about his public downward spiral"
In response to Reply # 249


  

          

>
marriage in shambles, huge legal embarrassment, suspected drug use. If Howard were to kill himself, it would be sad but not immediately suspicious.

  

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Mynoriti
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Fri May-27-22 03:36 PM

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259. "and if you're Lalo, NOT killing Howard is not an option"
In response to Reply # 258


  

          

just like not killing Werner's wife wouldn't have been an option if she had seen him

wrong place, wrong time for Howard is all.

  

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Beamer6178
Member since Jan 09th 2006
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Fri May-27-22 10:58 PM

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260. "very true, and another thing"
In response to Reply # 259
Fri May-27-22 10:59 PM by Beamer6178

  

          

>just like not killing Werner's wife wouldn't have been an
>option if she had seen him
>
>wrong place, wrong time for Howard is all.

Howard's long time friend and partner killed himself after a mental breakdown that he couldn't come back from. Very plausible that Howard could have done the same.

  

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pretentious username
Member since Jun 18th 2010
12493 posts
Thu May-26-22 02:09 PM

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252. "I see Lalo as the badass that Gus is at the end of BB"
In response to Reply # 245


  

          

Gus has to defeat Lalo to become “full-form” Gus, if you will, so I’m having fun with this storyline. THIS Gus wouldn’t slit his right hand man’s throat just to prove a point to Jesse & Walter, but Lalo would do something like that in a heartbeat.

And similar to Gus, he has a public persona that puts people at ease. Lalo comes off as a happy-go-lucky guy in the same way that Gus comes across like a professional yet reserved local business owner, but Lalo has it perfected while Gus is still figuring it out

  

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Nodima
Member since Jul 30th 2008
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Fri May-27-22 05:27 AM

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256. "Yeah, I'd go back to some of my posts + say it doesn't HURT the show"
In response to Reply # 245


  

          

But like somebody else pointed out, while really showy I thought the Gus death was a cartoon in a way that took me out of the show a bit - or, maybe even more famously, the dynamite drugs in Tuco's spot - so it IS something that can be held against these guys, that they get tempted toward cinematic for cinematic's sake.


I'm just usually excited to overlook the indulgence because it's pursuing mundane, regular life shit, even if it's cooking meth it often looks and feels like the way we might make breakfast for our family or use brewing coffee as an excuse to hold off actual work a few more minutes.


Considering the level these two shows operate on I never actually care, like I'm gonna go tell somebody who hasn't seen what happens to Dany's dragons yet that they've wasted their time enjoying the entertainment, right (I wouldn't say that then, anyway - I'd just recommend putting on your comedy goggles before S8, lol)?


But I do think it's reasonable that if you get into these shows - especially Saul - you might find yourself fully wrapped up in a guy glueing shredded legal documents together in a candle lit drawing room, pulling a sort of magic trick that makes you interested in incredible mundane and plausibly relatable minutiae. So it inevitably, IMO, feels awkward when everything we see from Lalo after his visit to the doppleganger family feels like it makes the plot work as much as develops the character. I think a clever person could argue all this season's character development for Howard was an even more cynical version of the same thing.


In fractions of fractions, for what my thoughts are worth, but I could see this season as is, so far, seeming pretty hollow in some ways.

~~~~~~~~~
"This is the streets, and I am the trap." � Jay Bilas
http://www.popmatters.com/pm/archive/contributor/517
Hip Hop Handbook: http://tinyurl.com/ll4kzz

  

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RandomFact
Member since Dec 10th 2005
8710 posts
Tue May-31-22 12:51 AM

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261. " this season is pretty boring & lazy imo"
In response to Reply # 0
Tue May-31-22 01:10 AM by RandomFact

  

          

there are slow burns but this is something else.

there are way too many unimportant scenes that go on for too long (currently watching two minutes of howard making coffee over some dean martin).

many of these overly long, plodding scenes do nothing to progress the storyline.

i've never seen a show hold onto unimportant camera shots for so long after the scene has effectively ended.

for a final season, this shit has been painfully boring/plodding and aimlessly meandering for long stretches. it's borderline pretentious and the writing seems lazy.

*slunks out of post*

  

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Reeq
Member since Mar 11th 2013
16347 posts
Sun Jun-26-22 01:15 PM

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262. "why is there such a big gap between airing episodes 7 and 8?"
In response to Reply # 0
Sun Jun-26-22 01:20 PM by Reeq

          

may 23rd to july 11?

i wanted to binge when the season was done and thought itd be over or close by now. looks like theyre only about half way through lol.

  

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Reeq
Member since Mar 11th 2013
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Sun Jun-26-22 01:19 PM

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263. "nvm this is fucking stupid:"
In response to Reply # 262


          

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FQu5ERCVIAAn0rB?format=jpg&name=medium

im assuming thats why other folks are splitting up their seasons too.

just complete contempt for the viewer/customer.

  

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Nodima
Member since Jul 30th 2008
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Tue Jun-28-22 05:42 AM

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264. "Beyond all that - AMC gets an extra 7.99 from me"
In response to Reply # 263
Tue Jun-28-22 05:43 AM by Nodima

  

          

I know they have other shows with good reviews, so it's on me in some sense for not using their service while paying for it, but I only have it because they weren't selling the full season for about $20 on the Playstation Store and I want to have that week to week discourse...


I can do some basic math and realize I ultimately won't be paying more to see this show as it airs, and of course the Emmy gamesmanship is more important for a shiny reputation rock like Saul than any one AMC+ sub, but totally agree with that last comment - it's frustrating to see more and more TV shows pull this card for vanity's sake, especially because fans of this show are not gonna ever think of this (or any) final season as separate stories that demand the break. And I've felt this way since Mad Men's final season premiered in April 2014 and concluded almost 14 months later. It's corny!


~~~~~~~~~
"This is the streets, and I am the trap." � Jay Bilas
http://www.popmatters.com/pm/archive/contributor/517
Hip Hop Handbook: http://tinyurl.com/ll4kzz

  

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DJR
Member since Jan 01st 2005
18638 posts
Mon Jul-11-22 09:25 PM

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265. "Episode 8: that was intense!"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

I need to go for a walk or something.

  

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stravinskian
Member since Feb 24th 2003
12698 posts
Mon Jul-11-22 09:26 PM

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266. "This motherfucking show!"
In response to Reply # 0
Mon Jul-11-22 09:29 PM by stravinskian

          

That's all I got right now.

Oh, and everyone who says they're tired of the pretentious cinematography hopefully learned something about what can be done with pretentious cinematography.

  

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Brew
Member since Nov 23rd 2002
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Tue Jul-12-22 09:34 AM

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270. "What do you mean here ?"
In response to Reply # 266


          

>Oh, and everyone who says they're tired of the pretentious
>cinematography hopefully learned something about what can be
>done with pretentious cinematography.

----------------------------------------

"Fuck aliens." © WarriorPoet415

  

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stravinskian
Member since Feb 24th 2003
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Tue Jul-12-22 10:37 AM

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273. "Two shots in particular. "
In response to Reply # 270
Tue Jul-12-22 10:54 AM by stravinskian

          

The first 20 minutes of this episode were (obviously) as high-tension as anything we've seen in the Breaking Bad universe. And the pinnacle of this tension, for me, was seeing Kim on that security camera, going all hysterical as Mike tries to calm her down. I don't know what mixture of TV tropes has given me this Pavlovian conditioning, but when I see a pretty lady in hysterics on a grainy security cam, surrounded by tough guys dressed like not-quite-soldiers, with audio just slightly out of sync with the grainy video. I think "This shot ends with one less character than it started with, and I'm pretty sure I know who."

The other big one that comes to mind is the shot from Lalo's camcorder, with the gun right in the shot like something out of Doom. This wasn't as high tension -- they walked us through *exactly* what was gonna happen a few episodes earlier -- but it fit with Lalo and his scheme, said something about how confident Lalo was in that moment (really living like a video game character, as he'd done all along). And as a side bonus there's the film-student catnip about a play within a play.

On a much smaller scale: the shot when Lalo pulls out a chair to tie up Jimmy in his apartment. The camera tracks exactly with the chair while the rest of the world, including Jimmy, is floating around all around it. I won't pretend that shot really meant anything specific, but it's absolutely an established Gilliganism to tie the camera to an inanimate object.

And when Mike arrives at the apartment and finds Jimmy on the ground: the sideways shot of Mike's face -- that's a reasonably standard shot when a character is in an awkward place and literally sideways, but it's NOT a common shot in BCS or Breaking Bad. I think a bunch of the shots in the apartment in this episode and last were intentionally outside of the usual BCS/BB wheelhouse, to help us in the audience to feel just how confused, shocked, and taken-aback Jimmy and Kim were when somebody else turned their scheme up to 11 in a way that they NEVER expected. There was a lot of discussion about the "Spielberg face" shots that they used to show how confused and terrified Jimmy and Kim were when Lalo walked in. I think this is another thing like that -- the directors intentionally changing up their language to make it all seem extra eerie for the viewers.

Ooh, one last one, before I rewatch and find six more shots I love: the shot at the end of Jimmy and Kim sitting on the bed and staring into space as Mike explains what's gonna happen -- the framing of that shot was a work of genius (though they've done similar tricks before). Jimmy and Kim are in separate worlds. They might as well be in completely separate shots. They barely look at Mike and they don't even glance at each other. And Mike is standing between them in the shot like a literal dividing line with Kim on one side and Saul on the other (with a curl of messed-up hair starting to look *very* reminiscent of the Saul Goodman combover). I didn't realize how important that scene (and that shot) were at the time. At first I just thought -- OMG, this is how Saul learned that Mike knows exactly how to deal with an unexpected dead body, which BTW is how we first met Mike in Breaking Bad. But the more I think of it, the more I think that that moment with Jimmy and Kim staring into space as Mike tells them that he **just needs to slightly extend the fiction that they've already constructed** to be able to hide the body of one of the most important people in their lives -- that moment is the axis on which this whole story turns. And Mike is there, symmetrically arranged like the hinge on a seesaw.

LOL, I took ONE film class in college. I wish I'd taken more.

  

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Brew
Member since Nov 23rd 2002
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Tue Jul-12-22 11:05 AM

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274. "Damn this is great. Thanks for this. I'm gonna watch again with all this..."
In response to Reply # 273


          

>The first 20 minutes of this episode were (obviously) as
>high-tension as anything we've seen in the Breaking Bad
>universe. And the pinnacle of this tension, for me, was seeing
>Kim on that security camera, going all hysterical as Mike
>tries to calm her down. I don't know what mixture of TV tropes
>has given me this Pavlovian conditioning, but when I see a
>pretty lady in hysterics on a grainy security cam, surrounded
>by tough guys dressed like not-quite-soldiers, with audio just
>slightly out of sync with the grainy video. I think "This shot
>ends with one less character than it started with, and I'm
>pretty sure I know who."
>
>The other big one that comes to mind is the shot from Lalo's
>camcorder, with the gun right in the shot like something out
>of Doom. This wasn't as high tension -- they walked us through
>*exactly* what was gonna happen a few episodes earlier -- but
>it fit with Lalo and his scheme, said something about how
>confident Lalo was in that moment (really living like a video
>game character, as he'd done all along). And as a side bonus
>there's the film-student catnip about a play within a play.
>
>On a much smaller scale: the shot when Lalo pulls out a chair
>to tie up Jimmy in his apartment. The camera tracks exactly
>with the chair while the rest of the world, including Jimmy,
>is floating around all around it. I won't pretend that shot
>really meant anything specific, but it's absolutely an
>established Gilliganism to tie the camera to an inanimate
>object.
>
>And when Mike arrives at the apartment and finds Jimmy on the
>ground: the sideways shot of Mike's face -- that's a
>reasonably standard shot when a character is in an awkward
>place and literally sideways, but it's NOT a common shot in
>BCS or Breaking Bad. I think a bunch of the shots in the
>apartment in this episode and last were intentionally outside
>of the usual BCS/BB wheelhouse, to help us in the audience to
>feel just how confused, shocked, and taken-aback Jimmy and Kim
>were when somebody else turned their scheme up to 11 in a way
>that they NEVER expected. There was a lot of discussion about
>the "Spielberg face" shots that they used to show how confused
>and terrified Jimmy and Kim were when Lalo walked in. I think
>this is another thing like that -- the directors intentionally
>changing up their language to make it all seem extra eerie for
>the viewers.
>
>Ooh, one last one, before I rewatch and find six more shots I
>love: the shot at the end of Jimmy and Kim sitting on the bed
>and staring into space as Mike explains what's gonna happen --
>the framing of that shot was a work of genius (though they've
>done similar tricks before). Jimmy and Kim are in separate
>worlds. They might as well be in completely separate shots.
>They barely look at Mike and they don't even glance at each
>other. And Mike is standing between them in the shot like a
>literal dividing line with Kim on one side and Saul on the
>other (with a curl of messed-up hair starting to look *very*
>reminiscent of the Saul Goodman combover). I didn't realize
>how important that scene (and that shot) were at the time. At
>first I just thought -- OMG, this is how Saul learned that
>Mike knows exactly how to deal with an unexpected dead body,
>which BTW is how we first met Mike in Breaking Bad. But the
>more I think of it, the more I think that that moment with
>Jimmy and Kim staring into space as Mike tells them that he
>**just needs to slightly extend the fiction that they've
>already constructed** to be able to hide the body of one of
>the most important people in their lives -- that moment is the
>axis on which this whole story turns. And Mike is there,
>symmetrically arranged like the hinge on a seesaw.
>
>LOL, I took ONE film class in college. I wish I'd taken more.
>
>

----------------------------------------

"Fuck aliens." © WarriorPoet415

  

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mista k5
Member since Feb 01st 2006
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Tue Jul-12-22 11:48 AM

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275. "it definitely left me feeling some way "
In response to Reply # 266


  

          

Was Jimmy sending Kim hoping she would just leave?

Kim was really going to do it??

Where do they go from here? I mean we know where Jimmy goes but curious to see how that is shown. Not sure what happens with Kim.

The laundromat scene was a bit of a let down for me. For it to work out exactly how Gus needed it to is a big reach. I feel like I'm starting to join the critics of this season now. Hopefully the remaining episodes pick the quality back up.

  

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Brew
Member since Nov 23rd 2002
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Tue Jul-12-22 12:07 PM

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278. "Too nitpicky IMO lol."
In response to Reply # 275


          

The same could be said re: the car trunk automatic machine gun scene from the final season of Breaking Bad. For dramas to work sometimes you have to slightly suspend disbelief. There's a lot of "no way that could ever happen"s in any good TV show. IMO just enjoy the ride. This show is near perfect. The quality has been as high as it always has been IMO, I think we all just have a tendency to, for whatever reason, unreasonably expect "more" from a final season.

This is well documented praise but I think what's most impressive is how they've been able to do all of this even with the limitations of what we know about the main characters come the Breaking Bad time period. For example I was on the edge of my seat with anxiety during the Gus/Lalo standoff even tho I knew exactly who'd survive and who'd die by the end.


>The laundromat scene was a bit of a let down for me. For it to
>work out exactly how Gus needed it to is a big reach. I feel
>like I'm starting to join the critics of this season now.
>Hopefully the remaining episodes pick the quality back up.

----------------------------------------

"Fuck aliens." © WarriorPoet415

  

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Mynoriti
Charter member
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Tue Jul-12-22 12:21 PM

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281. "beat me to it. this is WAY more plausible than the trunk scene"
In response to Reply # 278


  

          

which I enjoy but it slightly bugs me, how perfectly it works, down to Jesse getting to choke out Todd, and Walt getting a final moment with Jack

  

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Brew
Member since Nov 23rd 2002
24419 posts
Tue Jul-12-22 12:33 PM

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283. "Yea exactly. I mean it's all *possible*, just not likely to all fall int..."
In response to Reply # 281
Tue Jul-12-22 12:38 PM by Brew

          

Including how perfect the height of the gun is to level all the nazis but just miss those laying on the floor (besides Walt, of course).

But again - it was such a cool and well written storyline/scene that I allowed myself to be impressed by it rather than annoyed by the seemingly implausible execution. It's a TV show. And it's insanely fun and entertaining and well written. Just enjoy it. TV would be pretty boring if everything were realistic and "plausible."

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"Fuck aliens." © WarriorPoet415

  

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Beamer6178
Member since Jan 09th 2006
6379 posts
Mon Aug-08-22 07:39 PM

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472. "i mean let's not forget Gus saw Lalo on camera enter the laundromat"
In response to Reply # 281


  

          

>which I enjoy but it slightly bugs me, how perfectly it
>works, down to Jesse getting to choke out Todd, and Walt
>getting a final moment with Jack

and Lalo still got the drop on Gus and 4 or 5 of his men. they could have definitely been more calculating then just bumbling into an ambush.

  

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stravinskian
Member since Feb 24th 2003
12698 posts
Tue Jul-12-22 12:18 PM

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280. "That scene was a rollercoaster of emotions and game theory."
In response to Reply # 275
Tue Jul-12-22 12:48 PM by stravinskian

          

>Was Jimmy sending Kim hoping she would just leave?

I came in to the episode, like everybody, wondering what happens to Kim. Does she get killed? (If so, this is a very plausible way for it to happen.) Does she get so angry at Saul that she wants to disappear and never see him again? (If so, this was a very plausible way for that to happen.) For me, that scene was a tug of war between those two options, neither of which seem to have come to pass.

When Lalo said Jimmy was gonna go and Kim was gonna stay, my first thought was "Thank God! Kim doesn't deserve to be put through that kind of murder mission." And then when Jimmy started arguing that Kim should go, I nearly stood up in my chair and started yelling "Saul Goodman you slimy cowardly motherfucker!"

But then the way he looked at her, the way she looked at him back, it quickly became clear that Jimmy's only goal was to get Kim out of that apartment, whether it means his own death or not. At this point I'm pretty sure Jimmy's plan was for Kim to run away then and there, never to be seen again.

And then Kim started to see that Jimmy was hoping to sacrifice his life for her and she wasn't having it. And then these two genius litigators are both trying to make an airtight case to Lalo Salamanca about who gets to stay in the room with him!

>Kim was really going to do it??

The way she opened her window next to those cops and lingered on a thought. That was an amazing shot. And when the peephole at Gus's house goes dark and then light again, and she knows that within the next five seconds, best-case scenario (as far as she can imagine), she'll be a murderer. It was unfathomably good acting.

>Where do they go from here? I mean we know where Jimmy goes
>but curious to see how that is shown. Not sure what happens
>with Kim.
>
>The laundromat scene was a bit of a let down for me. For it to
>work out exactly how Gus needed it to is a big reach. I feel
>like I'm starting to join the critics of this season now.
>Hopefully the remaining episodes pick the quality back up.

That's fair enough, but I can't make heads-or-tails of any of the criticisms floating around for this season. People are mad about Lalo being an implausible supervillain. Did they miss the episode where Walter White built a pipe bomb, within a few hours, on his kitchen table, complete with a radio-controlled detonator that somehow had a range that could reach the parking garage across the street? Did they miss the episode where Walter White gave a chunk of material to Tuco Salamanca, known for crushing up and snorting every rock he sees with the butt of his knife, only to find out later that it's a highly unstable crystal of fulminated mercury, and that by just throwing it up in the air he can cause an explosion that destroys the room and injures everybody but him and Tuco (and yet somehow DOESN'T set off the whole bagfull of what Walter claims is more of the very same stuff)? Or how about the episode of Better Call Saul where Jimmy talks a client into sitting on pies for a fake fetish video, just to give him some plausible deniability over something else?

These shows have always had a major element of comic-book melodrama. It's understandable that we'd forget about it in the more cool and collected world or Schweikart & Cokely and HHM. But I find it fitting that it's arising again as we transition back into the era of Breaking Bad.

  

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Brew
Member since Nov 23rd 2002
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Tue Jul-12-22 12:36 PM

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284. "EXACTLY exactly exactly exactly."
In response to Reply # 280


          

It's implausible but it's TV and it's impossible entertaining unless you're searching for reasons not to like it. We only have 5ish hours left with these characters that we've spent 15 years with ... let's try and collectively enjoy it, eh ?


>That's fair enough, but I can't make heads-or-tails of any of
>the criticisms floating around for this season. People are mad
>about Lalo being an implausible supervillain. Did they miss
>the episode where Walter White built a pipe bomb, within a few
>hours, on his kitchen table, complete with a radio-controlled
>detonator that somehow had a range that could reach the
>parking garage across the street? Did they miss the episode
>where Walter White gave a chunk of material to Tuco Salamanca,
>known for crushing up and snorting every rock he sees with the
>butt of his knife, only to find out later that it's a highly
>unstable crystal of fulminated mercury, and that by just
>throwing it up in the air he can cause an explosion that
>destroys the room and injures everybody but him and Tuco? Or
>how about the episode of Better Call Saul where Jimmy talks a
>client into sitting on pies for a fake fetish video, just to
>give him some plausible deniability over something else?
>
>These shows have always had a major element of comic-book
>melodrama. It's understandable that we'd forget about it in
>the more cool and collected world or Schweikart & Cokely and
>HHM. But I find it fitting that it's arising again as we
>transition back into the era of Breaking Bad.

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mista k5
Member since Feb 01st 2006
16414 posts
Tue Jul-12-22 01:11 PM

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285. "you nailed the Kim and Jimmy stuff"
In response to Reply # 280


  

          

My first thought was also thinking he was being a coward by sending her but then I realized he's trying to save her even if it means he sacrifices himself. I want to see that unpacked more. That was an intense experience they went through and they could easily just focus on that for the rest of the season.

As far as things being believable I get it. I try not to nitpick on stuff like that and just worry on if I enjoy watching. I didn't really enjoy watching the laundromat scene because we knew where it was going. I think I enjoy these things more when I haven't had weeks to think over what can happen and just get surprised instead. Would rather find out I missed the clues than actually find out that exactly what you expect to happen happens lol Maybe I also felt Gus' disses for Eladio were weak and awkward lol

  

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Brew
Member since Nov 23rd 2002
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Tue Jul-12-22 02:02 PM

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286. "Yea I really think that's the direction they are likely to go."
In response to Reply # 285


          

>My first thought was also thinking he was being a coward by
>sending her but then I realized he's trying to save her even
>if it means he sacrifices himself. I want to see that unpacked
>more. That was an intense experience they went through and
>they could easily just focus on that for the rest of the
>season.

Cuz you nailed it, there's a TON to unpack there and perhaps more to the point, that's really the only thing that's left to resolve. Everyone else is basically where they would be heading into the timeline on BB.


>As far as things being believable I get it. I try not to
>nitpick on stuff like that and just worry on if I enjoy
>watching. I didn't really enjoy watching the laundromat scene
>because we knew where it was going.

Sure, but that's just a byproduct of the limitations set by this being a prequel. They obviously can't kill off Gus, so we just have to accept that we know how the scene will ultimately end up (besides the specifics of *how* it ends up that way) and enjoy it for what it is. Not saying it's easy but at the same time, it kinda is. Haha.


>I think I enjoy these
>things more when I haven't had weeks to think over what can
>happen and just get surprised instead. Would rather find out I
>missed the clues than actually find out that exactly what you
>expect to happen happens lol Maybe I also felt Gus' disses for
>Eladio were weak and awkward lol

Hahaha fair. And for the record *this* is a gripe I will 100% co-sign: the split final season thing that started (to my knowledge) with The Sopranos. Can't possibly hate that more.

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stravinskian
Member since Feb 24th 2003
12698 posts
Tue Jul-12-22 02:23 PM

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287. "Personally I think Gus's Eladio rant was essential."
In response to Reply # 285


          

I think we're getting to the point of personal opinion here, so I'm not trying to argue with you. But the way I see it:

Gus needed to shut off the lights to gain the upper hand. In that episode a few weeks back he didn't just plant the gun, he also paced out how many steps it was from that cable switch to the gun. So he needed to find a way to kick that switch without Lalo immediately knowing something was up and firing. Gus's rant was the misdirection that he needed to make sure Lalo didn't know what was up until after the lights turned off.

There was also, of course, the fan service of letting us all hear what Gus really thinks of Don Eladio, since everyone was a little too busy at the relevant moment in "Salud." I found that super satisfying, but I'll admit it also had a very similar feel to "Well Mr Bond, since you're about to die anyway, let me tell you the rest of my plan..."

But deep down, it's in keeping with the comic-book melodrama that I'm saying has always been there.

Anyway, someone said something in (I think) The Watch podcast about how there might have been some hidden references to Nacho in that monologue as well, but it didn't make sense to me when I heard that claim. I'll be watching closer for that next time I see the episode.

  

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Brew
Member since Nov 23rd 2002
24419 posts
Tue Jul-12-22 02:55 PM

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288. "Yea I agree with you."
In response to Reply # 287


          

>I think we're getting to the point of personal opinion here,
>so I'm not trying to argue with you. But the way I see it:

Yea I just went to edit my post but it was too late but to be clear to mista5k, I'm not arguing either - just stating the way I'm trying to view it personally, is all. I actually totally understand his gripes and can even somewhat agree with them, I'm just trying to limit my criticisms because I'm gonna really fucking miss this universe once it's gone. So I want to totally invest in the enjoyment these last few weeks.


>Gus needed to shut off the lights to gain the upper hand. In
>that episode a few weeks back he didn't just plant the gun, he
>also paced out how many steps it was from that cable switch to
>the gun. So he needed to find a way to kick that switch
>without Lalo immediately knowing something was up and firing.
>Gus's rant was the misdirection that he needed to make sure
>Lalo didn't know what was up until after the lights turned
>off.
>
>There was also, of course, the fan service of letting us all
>hear what Gus really thinks of Don Eladio, since everyone was
>a little too busy at the relevant moment in "Salud." I found
>that super satisfying, but I'll admit it also had a very
>similar feel to "Well Mr Bond, since you're about to die
>anyway, let me tell you the rest of my plan..."
>
>But deep down, it's in keeping with the comic-book melodrama
>that I'm saying has always been there.

Yea this I agree with completely. I think it was also necessary to showcase and remind us that Gus is a badass and not just a guy who always relies on his security and hiding when things get messy. I think throughout Saul he's been mostly behind the scenes of his growing empire and trying to stay in the shadows, while in BB he was obviously balancing both worlds to an impressive extent. So I think as the Saul timeline moves closer and closer to that of BB, it was important for the show/the writers to remind us that not only does he have a shadowy background with his past life in Chile, but that once he takes over his empire completely, he is as badass a villain as anyone else in the Albuquerque underworld.


>Anyway, someone said something in (I think) The Watch podcast
>about how there might have been some hidden references to
>Nacho in that monologue as well, but it didn't make sense to
>me when I heard that claim. I'll be watching closer for that
>next time I see the episode.

Ohhh I want to hear that. Definitely didn't pick up on that on first viewing.

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mista k5
Member since Feb 01st 2006
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Tue Jul-12-22 03:05 PM

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289. "doing the rant was essential"
In response to Reply # 287


  

          

i just thought he could had used better disses, especially in spanish lol

although thinking back, the hector part and all of the salamanca ones were pretty satisfying.

  

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allStah
Member since Jun 21st 2014
9816 posts
Mon Jul-11-22 11:48 PM

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267. "What a nosedive. I’ll provide more in-depth commentary "
In response to Reply # 0
Mon Jul-11-22 11:54 PM by allStah

          

later. However, it’s quite tragic how this last season of BCS started off
with such a bang, only for the writing to fall off a cliff as the show has progressed.
They just mailed-in the entire backstory, and after creating unique and fascinating
elements of important characters of the show, those same characters have
regressed into acts of unintelligence and imprudence.

BB gave us unexpected moment after unexpected moment, and even made the
outrageous and impossible seem believable. BCS was the same way up until
this last season.

I can only hope that the post-BB story arc continues to keep us
engaged, and maybe that will make up for all the recent lackluster
episodes.

ALL HAIL THE KING of LOSING: LEBRON
Bulls | Bears | White Sox | Yankees | Notre Dame | Illinois | Chelsea | Real Madrid

  

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Nodima
Member since Jul 30th 2008
15302 posts
Tue Jul-12-22 03:48 AM

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268. "I think it's an eager critic that conflates lack of stakes with lack of ..."
In response to Reply # 267


  

          

Whatever you and perhaps many are feeling was somewhat inevitable. Same as, despite the highest stakes of the force occurred in a lowkey series of hallways during Empire Strikes Back, Yoda and a relatively random senator threw sections of buildings at each other. A prequel can't forget it's birthplace.

And despite understanding I think you almost always have exceptionally bad, of the moment basketball takes, I think I can point to us agreeing a few times in this thread. I would fully agree that the story has quickly become a series of answers to old questions perhaps better left untold rather than a collection of character studies.

Specifically, it's a shame Lalo had to transition from charming/cunning to a total supervillain. I love Tony Dalton in this role but nothing about this episode convinces me he shouldn't have died trawling that workshop in Germany. Other than the series I already watched a decade ago.

But I also accept that this show always had to end anticlimactically, and now that we're seeing the first steps toward that it seems interesting in a very anti-viewer way. If you know the answers, do the questions matter? If you liked the story that allowed this story, should it really be SO bad if the way the two are connected takes a leap or two?

I'd also say that I felt Bad ended...adventurously. So if this is what Saul needs to do, it feels of a kind. Matter of factly, this is a hilariously stupid franchise buoyed by amazing actors and writers grounding characters in a live action Image Comic. I wanted that show to wrap smarter than it did, and hoped this show might've learned from how tonally weird the back half of Breaking Bad felt to some.

But this is the show, and universe, that it is. The characters are ultimately the focus. The story is the hook, but it's clear the line breaks if the writers don't think the characters can carry said story.


~~~~~~~~~
"This is the streets, and I am the trap." � Jay Bilas
http://www.popmatters.com/pm/archive/contributor/517
Hip Hop Handbook: http://tinyurl.com/ll4kzz

  

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Mynoriti
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282. "I understand the appeal of having him die in Germany"
In response to Reply # 268


  

          

Which would be somewhat of an Omar style death, which as much as I hated seeing it was a pretty bold/brilliant move, but as you and others already kinda pointed out, it doesn't fit the universe we're in

  

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Numba_33
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Tue Jul-12-22 07:46 AM

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269. "So it's pretty much a given Kim will get vacuumed, correct?"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

Similar to how the show displayed Gus placing the gun in the dig spot as a way to show viewers a method to resolve his storyline, the show made sure to have both Jimmy/Saul and Kim notice the vacuum service card when leafing through the vet's little black book.

I guess it's possible the show runners could do a little misdirection and not go Chekov's gun with the vacuum card. If I'm not mistaken, folks in responses above mentioned that Robert Forester passed a while ago. Just did a web search and he did pass away quite a while ago.

With Lalo out the way officially, there's no threat to Kim's life either.

I suppose the only suspenseful portions for the remaining episodes is how much of Gene's storyline with get told, along how Walt and Jesse will get brought into these remaining episodes as well.

I do suppose it was cool to know that both Lalo and Howard were buried under the hidden meth lab.

"Sean sparks like John Starks, nah, Sean ball like John Wall" - Rest In Power Forever Sean Price.

  

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Brew
Member since Nov 23rd 2002
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Tue Jul-12-22 09:38 AM

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271. "All the trailers on AMC were about Gene ..."
In response to Reply # 269
Tue Jul-12-22 09:39 AM by Brew

          

So I presume we'll get a good chunk of that part of his story in the final few eps here.


>I suppose the only suspenseful portions for the remaining
>episodes is how much of Gene's storyline with get told, along
>how Walt and Jesse will get brought into these remaining
>episodes as well.

>I do suppose it was cool to know that both Lalo and Howard were buried under the hidden meth lab.

Yea that was a wild shot.

----------------------------------------

"Fuck aliens." © WarriorPoet415

  

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stravinskian
Member since Feb 24th 2003
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Tue Jul-12-22 09:55 AM

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272. "It's a given that she survives, not necessarily vacuumed, though. "
In response to Reply # 269


          

There's kinda no more violence to be had at this point. It feels really weird to be saying this with five more episodes to go, but I don't think there's really any more story for them to tell about Gus, Mike, or the Cartel. I would LOVE to know more about Gus's earlier life in Chile (and presumably the Pinochet government), but dramatically speaking I actually think it would be kinda cheap for them to give us that at this point. It wouldn't surprise me at all if a few conversations between Mike and Gus in episode 9 might be the last we see of them before the Breaking Bad era.

As for the vacuum shop: I actually kinda doubt that Kim goes that way now. There just isn't a reason for it. Nobody is looking for her, nobody is trying to kill her, and (as far as I can remember) she hasn't even done anything illegal. Shady as fuck, but nothing that's gonna trigger a manhunt. So she could disappear entirely on her own, just hit the road to mom's house and start again.

(She could even stay in Albuquerque, managing Ice Station Zebra Associates behind the scenes -- a scenario that seemed completely implausible when people were talking about it a month ago, but seems entirely possible now, though I still wouldn't say it's likely.)

The Nebraska connection is the one thing that makes me think Kim might meet Ed the Disappearer. All the Nebraska connections could be complete misdirection, but the fact that Saul ends up in Omaha after all this seems like too much of a coincidence. On the other hand, if Kim does end up in Nebraska, there isn't a chance in hell that Ed would have been the one to send her there. As careful as he is to make sure his people never get noticed, he wouldn't ever send anyone somewhere so close to where they grew up.

My guess at this point is that, after an emotional blowup between her and Saul, Kim hops in a car and shows up two days later at her Mom's house to start her new life. (Is that the plan for this Carol Burnett cameo?!) But she watches Saul from afar throughout the Breaking Bad era (maybe helped along by rumors from courthouse friends), and she sees Saul's collapse long before he does and she calls Ed to ask, if/when Saul needs a new life, that he ends up somewhere near her.

Then again, I'm starting to feel like Badger walking through his genius Star Trek script (which admittedly, as a huge Star Trek fan, I would love to see).

I actually don't think there's much more to do in Albuquerque at this point. Maybe it's a misdirection, or maybe it's a big tell, that the teaser for next week's episode was audio-only (Jimmy (or was it Gene!) recalling -- presumably to Kim -- Mike's monologue from Bagman about how eventually there'll be a day when you don't think about the death you saw).

I think next episode will almost all be about Jimmy and Kim reckoning with how much things have escalated, and why. If they want to be fancy about it, the whole episode could be a two-person play, just Jimmy and Kim talking and arguing and crying in the apartment.

And then a time jump. Maybe we get two episodes showing what Saul was up to off-camera in the Breaking Bad years, and two or more episodes of Gene dealing with the cab driver and connecting, in whatever way, with Kim.

But I'm more than ready to be surprised. Because even though all the pieces are fitting together like clockwork in retrospect, I didn't see ANY of it coming ahead of time.

  

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allStah
Member since Jun 21st 2014
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Tue Jul-12-22 12:04 PM

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276. "Lalo goes from being this charming, cunning drug lord "
In response to Reply # 0
Tue Jul-12-22 12:26 PM by allStah

          

to the world’s greatest supervillian to the world’s dumbest character.

*SPOILERS*

Lalo has Gus cornered, and he tells Gus to show him his under construction
meth lab. Gus refuses, but then Lalo shoots him in the chest knowing he is
wearing a bulletproof vest. Now, at this point, anyone with any amount of
intelligence would have had Gus take off the vest, especially since the objective
was to kill Gus after Gus exhibits the meth lab. But Lalo didn’t have Gus remove his
vest.

Gus catches his breath after being shot, and then agrees to show Lalo the
meth lab. As Lalo is forcing Gus to give him a tour of the lab, he holds
his gun in one hand and a video camera in his other hand. The smart thing
to do would have been to have Gus hold the camera, while he is holding his gun
with two hands, and then he should have positioned himself behind Gus.
That would have given him complete control of the situation, and Gus’ hands
wouldn’t have been free to make any kind of move.

Lalo continues to stand in front of Gus with a gun in one hand and the camera in the other. Gus starts to verbally bash the cartel in front of the camera as a distraction
tactic. As Lalo is standing their taking everything in as foolish talk from Gus, Gus
then kicks sand in Lalo’s face, hits the lights, and quickly grabs his gun that he
planted in the meth lab weeks ago. They both fire shots at each other, and Lalo
is killed from the exchange of gun fire.

Just like that, Lalo is dead ( the same as it was with Nacho). I guess the bias and prejudice still exist in cinema that Latin American characters must die or be killed
off in tv shows and movies, and not only killed off, but they must die in a gruesome
or stupid way.....compare their deaths to how Mike and Hank were killed. They both
went out with strength and honor (refusing to back down).


The name of the episode should have been: how to go from smart to dumb
in 60 seconds.

Also, it was pretty much a forgone conclusion that Lalo was going to die once they
went into the meth lab....They gave us one of the worst foreshadowing in tv history
when Gus planted the gun in the Meth lab a few episodes back.

I really hope they give Kim a proper exit, and that the character isn’t diminished.
















ALL HAIL THE KING of LOSING: LEBRON
Bulls | Bears | White Sox | Yankees | Notre Dame | Illinois | Chelsea | Real Madrid

  

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funklectic
Member since May 04th 2005
471 posts
Thu Jul-14-22 04:20 PM

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307. "RE: Lalo goes from being this charming, cunning drug lord "
In response to Reply # 276


  

          

>They gave us one of the worst
>foreshadowing in tv history
>when Gus planted the gun in the Meth lab a few episodes back.

Possibly... but also, you know that Gus survives prior to to walking in to the lab with Lalo, right?

  

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Sofian_Hadi
Member since Jan 03rd 2003
5628 posts
Tue Jul-12-22 12:05 PM

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277. "That ep was better than the first half of Season 6 combined. FLAMES"
In response to Reply # 0


          

Had me on the edge of my seat from the jump

---------------------------------------

"The world is before you and you need not take it or leave it as it was when you came in." - James Baldwin

  

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Brew
Member since Nov 23rd 2002
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Tue Jul-12-22 12:09 PM

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279. "Yea agreed. The payoff has been worth it thus far."
In response to Reply # 277


          

I think that may be the end of the violence for the season/series, tho. The cartel/Gus/Mike storylines are pretty much where they need to be for the start of BB. All that's really left to resolve is Kim/Jimmy and Gene.

----------------------------------------

"Fuck aliens." © WarriorPoet415

  

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stravinskian
Member since Feb 24th 2003
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Tue Jul-12-22 03:17 PM

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290. "I've been noticing a lot of little parallels with Breaking Bad this seas..."
In response to Reply # 0


          

Has anybody else noticed this? I don't mean "reusing story ideas" or anything like that (there's some of that too, but I think they do it well). I mean random little elements that seem minor in either show on its own but mark connections between the two shows. Maybe I'm entirely inventing this in my head. Maybe it's just a bunch of cute references. Or maybe it's a way for them to intentionally revive elements of Breaking Bad, either to draw our subconscious, or just simply for poetic reasons.

Examples:

In season 2 of Breaking Bad, Hank's DEA buddies give him a "trophy" of Tuco's grill encased in Lucite. I thought that was a little weird and random at the time, but it became an important symbol for Hank, and he eventually threw it in the river, hoping it would wipe away some kind of curse with what happened in El Paso. Then, in mid season 6 of BCS, the Jungs have Werner's sliderule encased in lucite as a gift for Margarethe. And that trophy eventually becomes the thing that leads Lalo into Caspar's life. In both cases, these totemic objects become pathways for "evil" to flow to places where it wasn't supposed to.

When Crazy Eight is imprisoned in Jesse's basement, by pure luck he gets a chance to grab a shard from the shattered plate that Walt dropped, and he almost used that shard to kill Walt. In "Rock and a Hard Place", Nacho somehow grabs a shard from the glass that Gus dropped in the trailer at the chicken farm, and Nacho used that shard to (briefly) escape and nearly kill Don Bolsa.

In the middle of season 2 of Breaking Bad, Walter is given a pin at the chemo clinic that says "Hope is the best medicine." He dismissively throws it into a public trash can as soon as he gets outside. In early season 6 of BCS, Kim finds Jimmy's gunshot "World's Second Greatest Lawyer" mug and tosses it into a public trash can with what seems like a remarkably similar sense of derision.

This one might be more of a stretch, but it just occurred to me: On Walt's 51st birthday, Skyler neglects to write "51" with the bacon like she used to on his birthdays, and when Junior calls her on it she dismissively half-asses it. In retrospect this seems very similar (in reverse) to the dynamic of Howard carefully making his wife a beautiful cup of coffee with an immaculate peace sign drawn in the foam, and she barely looks at it and dumps it into a travel mug.

In the early seasons of Breaking Bad, Marie repeatedly shoplifts things from stores and steals from house showings (one of the infamous plotlines that fizzled out in Breaking Bad), leading to a blowup between her and Skyler. Then in BCS season 6, young Kim not only gets caught shoplifting, but it gets turned into a quasi-bonding moment between mother and daughter (to the daughter's clear annoyance).

This might be absolutely nothing, but I need to rewatch the "Negro y Azul" episode of Breaking Bad and see if it has any parallels with the "Black and Blue" episode of BCS season 6.

This might just be a plot device that they like to use, but: just before Nacho's death, he makes a point of telling Hector that he caused the stroke and put him in that chair, just to make sure he knows. This was very similar to how Walter White, in Ozymandias, directly tells Jesse that he watched Jane die.

In BCS "Plan and Execution," Howard looks bewildered at Kim and says that she's one of the most capable people he'd ever met, and she threw it all away. It's maybe the last significant thing Howard says before he gets killed. In Ozymandias, Hank says almost exactly the same thing to Walt, again, just before he gets killed.

Also in Plan and Execution: Kim and Saul drugged Howard purely for dramatic effect in service of a larger scheme. In Face Off (or I guess the episode before that), Walter drugged Brock, again purely for dramatic effect in service of a larger scheme.

On that subject: Howard always drinks chamomile tea (which, importantly, is non-caffeinated). Another person who always drinks Chamomile tea is Lydia Rodart-Quayle. And for both of them, the fact that they so predictably drink chamomile tea became essential to their being drugged/poisoned. (Lydia got Ricin in her Stevia. Howard was drugged by the photo residue, but the reason it worked so well is because he didn't have a caffeine tolerance.)

Back to Ozymandias: Walter had to walk a long way through the desert, and this was made extra hard because he had to roll a barrel full of cash. In Bagman, Jimmy had to walk a long way through the desert, which was extra difficult because he had to carry two giant sackfulls of cash. In both cases (IIRC), they had to walk because their cars quickly ran out of gas. In both cases, they ran out of gas because a stray bullet had gone through their gas tanks.



I'm not sure what any of this is supposed to mean, if anything. Like I said, it could all just be a series of winks from the writers, or it may even be entirely made up by me. But I'm absolutely watching for this kind of thing now whenever I watch either show.

  

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Brew
Member since Nov 23rd 2002
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291. "Oh I think a lot of that is definitely intentional."
In response to Reply # 290


          

Or, at the very least, it's all indicative of having the same writing team at the helm of both shows - highlighting their tics or thematic "crutches" (for lack a better, more endearing term).

I also think this season of BCS has been tonally very similar to that of BB. Both shows, in their early seasons, were often lighthearted and downright hilarious alongside some of the darker storylines and themes. Both shows' final seasons seem to have gone fully dark with strikingly less "comedic" moments or lighthearted moments, for obvious reasons.

The Sopranos was another show that went darker as the seasons went along.


>Has anybody else noticed this? I don't mean "reusing story
>ideas" or anything like that (there's some of that too, but I
>think they do it well). I mean random little elements that
>seem minor in either show on its own but mark connections
>between the two shows. Maybe I'm entirely inventing this in my
>head. Maybe it's just a bunch of cute references. Or maybe
>it's a way for them to intentionally revive elements of
>Breaking Bad, either to draw our subconscious, or just simply
>for poetic reasons.
>
>Examples:
>
>In season 2 of Breaking Bad, Hank's DEA buddies give him a
>"trophy" of Tuco's grill encased in Lucite. I thought that was
>a little weird and random at the time, but it became an
>important symbol for Hank, and he eventually threw it in the
>river, hoping it would wipe away some kind of curse with what
>happened in El Paso. Then, in mid season 6 of BCS, the Jungs
>have Werner's sliderule encased in lucite as a gift for
>Margarethe. And that trophy eventually becomes the thing that
>leads Lalo into Caspar's life. In both cases, these totemic
>objects become pathways for "evil" to flow to places where it
>wasn't supposed to.
>
>When Crazy Eight is imprisoned in Jesse's basement, by pure
>luck he gets a chance to grab a shard from the shattered plate
>that Walt dropped, and he almost used that shard to kill Walt.
>In "Rock and a Hard Place", Nacho somehow grabs a shard from
>the glass that Gus dropped in the trailer at the chicken farm,
>and Nacho used that shard to (briefly) escape and nearly kill
>Don Bolsa.
>
>In the middle of season 2 of Breaking Bad, Walter is given a
>pin at the chemo clinic that says "Hope is the best medicine."
>He dismissively throws it into a public trash can as soon as
>he gets outside. In early season 6 of BCS, Kim finds Jimmy's
>gunshot "World's Second Greatest Lawyer" mug and tosses it
>into a public trash can with what seems like a remarkably
>similar sense of derision.
>
>This one might be more of a stretch, but it just occurred to
>me: On Walt's 51st birthday, Skyler neglects to write "51"
>with the bacon like she used to on his birthdays, and when
>Junior calls her on it she dismissively half-asses it. In
>retrospect this seems very similar (in reverse) to the dynamic
>of Howard carefully making his wife a beautiful cup of coffee
>with an immaculate peace sign drawn in the foam, and she
>barely looks at it and dumps it into a travel mug.
>
>In the early seasons of Breaking Bad, Marie repeatedly
>shoplifts things from stores and steals from house showings
>(one of the infamous plotlines that fizzled out in Breaking
>Bad), leading to a blowup between her and Skyler. Then in BCS
>season 6, young Kim not only gets caught shoplifting, but it
>gets turned into a quasi-bonding moment between mother and
>daughter (to the daughter's clear annoyance).
>
>This might be absolutely nothing, but I need to rewatch the
>"Negro y Azul" episode of Breaking Bad and see if it has any
>parallels with the "Black and Blue" episode of BCS season 6.
>
>This might just be a plot device that they like to use, but:
>just before Nacho's death, he makes a point of telling Hector
>that he caused the stroke and put him in that chair, just to
>make sure he knows. This was very similar to how Walter White,
>in Ozymandias, directly tells Jesse that he watched Jane die.
>
>In BCS "Plan and Execution," Howard looks bewildered at Kim
>and says that she's one of the most capable people he'd ever
>met, and she threw it all away. It's maybe the last
>significant thing Howard says before he gets killed. In
>Ozymandias, Hank says almost exactly the same thing to Walt,
>again, just before he gets killed.
>
>Also in Plan and Execution: Kim and Saul drugged Howard purely
>for dramatic effect in service of a larger scheme. In Face Off
>(or I guess the episode before that), Walter drugged Brock,
>again purely for dramatic effect in service of a larger
>scheme.
>
>On that subject: Howard always drinks chamomile tea (which,
>importantly, is non-caffeinated). Another person who always
>drinks Chamomile tea is Lydia Rodart-Quayle. And for both of
>them, the fact that they so predictably drink chamomile tea
>became essential to their being drugged/poisoned. (Lydia got
>Ricin in her Stevia. Howard was drugged by the photo residue,
>but the reason it worked so well is because he didn't have a
>caffeine tolerance.)
>
>Back to Ozymandias: Walter had to walk a long way through the
>desert, and this was made extra hard because he had to roll a
>barrel full of cash. In Bagman, Jimmy had to walk a long way
>through the desert, which was extra difficult because he had
>to carry two giant sackfulls of cash. In both cases (IIRC),
>they had to walk because their cars quickly ran out of gas. In
>both cases, they ran out of gas because a stray bullet had
>gone through their gas tanks.
>
>
>
>I'm not sure what any of this is supposed to mean, if
>anything. Like I said, it could all just be a series of winks
>from the writers, or it may even be entirely made up by me.
>But I'm absolutely watching for this kind of thing now
>whenever I watch either show.
>

----------------------------------------

"Fuck aliens." © WarriorPoet415

  

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Mynoriti
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Wed Jul-13-22 11:17 PM

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295. "Also Kim was sent to knock and shoot"
In response to Reply # 290


  

          

like Pinkman, with Gale

even though Lalo's plan was failure.

Great list/breakdown though. Some of them i definitely caught, some I never considered. a couple might be stretches but maybe not. I know there are more too, that i can't remember off hand.

  

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stravinskian
Member since Feb 24th 2003
12698 posts
Thu Jul-14-22 10:23 AM

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300. "Oh yeah! Also, with regard to guns..."
In response to Reply # 295


          

Many of most important shootings in both shows were made with the same kind of gun, a .38 snubnose revolver with five chambers. That's the kind of gun that Walt got to try and kill Gus (and like Kim, after he went to the house he was immediately seen and stopped by Gus's men). This may or may not also be the gun that Jesse used on Gale. And I think Jesse also used a 38 snub to kill the welder guy in El Camino (after throwing him off with the decoy 22).

Anyway, there was one interesting parallel just in this episode: when Lalo was telling Jimmy what to do at Gus's door, with his five-chambered 38 snub, he said to "point, shoot, and keep pulling the trigger until it's empty" (or something very similar to that).

The gun that Gus hid in the superlab was also a five-chambered 38 snub. And when the lights went out and he took his preplanned steps to get the gun, Gus pointed, shot, and kept pulling the trigger until it was empty. (I rewound and confirmed that there were five shots from Gus's gun before it started the empty clicks.)

Lalo wasn't expecting Jimmy or Kim to kill Gus, but Gus ended up killing Lalo in just the same way that Lalo told them to try to kill Gus.

  

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Mynoriti
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Thu Jul-14-22 11:05 AM

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301. "Lol yup. we were joking that Kim was gonna get the call"
In response to Reply # 300
Thu Jul-14-22 11:12 AM by Mynoriti

  

          

when she was crossing the street from Tyrus or Mike, like "Go home, Kim"

>Lalo wasn't expecting Jimmy or Kim to kill Gus, but Gus ended
>up killing Lalo in just the same way that Lalo told them to
>try to kill Gus.

Damn, nice. I loved the chess playing between the two of them. Lalo planning on this to go wrong to draw them away, etc.. Greenwald on the Watch mentioned that when Gus found out Saul talked Kim into going, he knew it was a bullshit plan, an that it meant Lalo was going to the lab instead.

Didn't even consider the shoot till it's empty part.

  

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stravinskian
Member since Feb 24th 2003
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Thu Jul-14-22 11:56 AM

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302. "And there were so many layers to that chess game."
In response to Reply # 301


          


I was initially confused about the motivations there and who was outsmarting whom. But I think The Watch clarified that for me too.

Immediately after the episode had ended, I assumed that Lalo's plan was to lure Gus to the laundry. But if that was the case, then Gus wasn't outsmarting Lalo when he talked to Kim, he was taking his bait.

But Lalo had two separate plans. One that Eladio would want (the "plan B" that Hector talked him into), and one that he wanted ("Plan A"). Lalo's "official" plan was just to draw Tyrus away from the laundromat so that Lalo could shoot his movie, alone, send the tape to Eladio, and get permission for a hit on Gus.

But Lalo himself wanted it all between him and Gus. So he set things up in such a way that Gus could "accidentally" outsmart him and catch him in the act. When Lalo switched from Jimmy to Kim he was intentionally giving Gus a hint, so that Gus would upset the plan and they could have their showdown without Eladio's permission.

  

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stravinskian
Member since Feb 24th 2003
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Tue Aug-09-22 06:29 PM

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520. "Striking similarity between scenes in Waterworks and Ozymandias."
In response to Reply # 290


          


https://uproxx.com/tv/better-call-saul-waterworks-breaking-bad-ozymandias/

Different directors, but Vince Gilligan directed Waterworks, and he's known for mapping out his shots in painstaking detail long before the shoot. So I think this was intentional.

  

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Brew
Member since Nov 23rd 2002
24419 posts
Tue Jul-12-22 04:59 PM

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292. "Satisfying breakdown from one of the writers of this ep ..."
In response to Reply # 0
Tue Jul-12-22 05:01 PM by Brew

          

... about the possible symbolism of Howard and Lalo being buried in the same tomb:

You’ve all talked about how at a certain point, Better Call Saul evolved into two different shows that occasionally intersected. Burying Lalo and Howard together like that feels symbolic of the idea of those two separate shows now being permanently joined. Was that intentional?

I love the way you put that. I don’t know that the burial was. But certainly, the fact of bringing all these things together was our way of saying, “No, no, this is why we’ve been doing these two things, because there was going to be a point where we brought these two things together.” And it leads to death, and it leads to chaos, and it leads to harm. As an image, it does exactly what you’re saying. I don’t think we consciously thought of that, but we debated it, when it was pitched in the room. Alison and Vince pitched it at first, and we were all like, “Oh, it feels really good. But are we going too far? Does it feel too symbol-y?” And then we said, “Maybe it does, but it feels like such a good symbol, right?”

From this Sepinwall interview:
https://www.rollingstone.com/tv-movies/tv-movie-features/better-call-saul-point-shoot-writer-interview-1378877/

I agree with their keeping that part in. Didn't feel too symobl-y to me at all, in fact it was very gratifying and I didn't really pick up on *exactly* what the symbolism was (though I recognized that there was likely a reason they buried them together) until I read this.

----------------------------------------

"Fuck aliens." © WarriorPoet415

  

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stravinskian
Member since Feb 24th 2003
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Thu Jul-14-22 12:11 PM

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303. "Yeah that was a great interview. "
In response to Reply # 292
Thu Jul-14-22 12:19 PM by stravinskian

          

On another podcast (I wasn't listening to the podcasts until someone in here mentioned them; now I'm spending three times as much time listening to analysis of the episodes as I am watching the episodes themselves, LOL!), somebody noted the metaphor that those two bodies are buried underneath the solid concrete foundation of the superlab from this point on, just like how the memories of those two people, who ultimately triggered Jimmy's final transformation, are buried under the concrete foundations of Saul Goodman's psyche.

It's probably a metaphor that the writers would say was unintentional (it's DEFINITELY "symbol-y"), but it's a satisfying metaphor regardless.

  

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Brew
Member since Nov 23rd 2002
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Thu Jul-14-22 12:31 PM

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305. "Haha I'm very much doing the same."
In response to Reply # 303
Thu Jul-14-22 12:33 PM by Brew

          

>(I wasn't listening to the podcasts until
>someone in here mentioned them; now I'm spending three times
>as much time listening to analysis of the episodes as I am
>watching the episodes themselves, LOL!)

Listening to The Prestige now, saved like 5 others to listen to thereafter. I will spend as much time as humanly possible in this universe before and after it's over lol.


>somebody noted the metaphor that those two bodies are buried underneath
>the solid concrete foundation of the superlab from this point on, just
>like how the memories of those two people, who ultimately triggered
>Jimmy's final transformation, are buried under the concrete foundations
>of Saul Goodman's psyche.

>It's probably a metaphor that the writers would say was unintentional
>(it's DEFINITELY "symbol-y"), but it's a satisfying metaphor regardless.

Ohhh yes indeed !

----------------------------------------

"Fuck aliens." © WarriorPoet415

  

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allStah
Member since Jun 21st 2014
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Wed Jul-13-22 10:20 AM

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293. "No way will Kim be able to carry the weight "
In response to Reply # 0


          

of Howard Hamlin being killed. An innocent man was murdered, and
she is totally responsible for his murder. Kim prides herself on being a legal
warrior, and helping individuals who have been duped or taken advantage of,
so she has too much of moral compass to just be apathetic about the situation.

Mike told Kim and Saul that he was going to stage Howard’s death as some
type of suicide or disappearance , because he could no longer live with his drug addiction ( a drug addiction he didn’t have). So Howard’s legacy will go down as
him being a druggie. He will be remembered as a failed lawyer who had tons of
dark secrets in his closet.

She just wanted to taint Howard’s reputation a little to expedite the settlement of the Sandpiper lawsuit, but now he is dead due to the scheme she implemented.


In my opinion, Kim and Jimmy are now worse than the Kettlemans....



ALL HAIL THE KING of LOSING: LEBRON
Bulls | Bears | White Sox | Yankees | Notre Dame | Illinois | Chelsea | Real Madrid

  

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Mynoriti
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Wed Jul-13-22 10:05 PM

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294. "interesting because we know Saul can"
In response to Reply # 293


  

          

at least he seemed good with it in BB. and Kim is always the more ruthless one of the two. Saul pushed back on how hard they were going on howard. (i think "taint his rep a little" is putting it pretty lightly). Especially since he's doing the same shit that lead to Chuck's demise.

But it looks like this will ultimately hit her harder than him. Probably because she's less honest with herself than Jimmy. Kim wants it both ways and alot of the time she uses her altruism (even though genuine) as an excuse for being such a fiend for action. Jimmy is more self-aware.


>In my opinion, Kim and Jimmy are now worse than the
>Kettlemans....

i don't remember what the Kettleman's initial scam was in S1

  

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allStah
Member since Jun 21st 2014
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Thu Jul-14-22 01:42 AM

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296. "The Nets or Knicks make the most sense"
In response to Reply # 294


          

He is a New York boy, and his father works in the Mets’ FO, so playing
for either one of the New York teams would be a win for him.

ALL HAIL THE KING of LOSING: LEBRON
Bulls | Bears | White Sox | Yankees | Notre Dame | Illinois | Chelsea | Real Madrid

  

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allStah
Member since Jun 21st 2014
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Thu Jul-14-22 03:40 AM

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297. "wrong board."
In response to Reply # 296


          

Disregard

ALL HAIL THE KING of LOSING: LEBRON
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herbiehowsermc
Member since Mar 26th 2004
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Tue Jul-19-22 09:15 AM

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314. "Yeah I was gonna say"
In response to Reply # 296


  

          

>He is a New York boy, and his father works in the Mets’ FO,
>so playing
>for either one of the New York teams would be a win for him.

This metaphor went way over my head. LOL

  

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stravinskian
Member since Feb 24th 2003
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Thu Jul-14-22 09:39 AM

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298. "The new significance of young-Kim's shoplifting scene..."
In response to Reply # 0


          

I didn't realize this at the time, but somebody pointed it out in the prestige TV podcast.

In the shoplifting scene (where, BTW, she got the earrings that she's been wearing all this season), it looks like she's disappointed that her mother's scolding turned out to be fake. The pop psychology that people are throwing around is that Kim breaks rules in the hopes that someone she cares about will correct her and say that she's too good to be acting like that. When Mom laughs it off and says it's no big deal, Kim feels like it's infantilizing and dehumanizing her. She wants someone to care about her enough to tell her that something she did was wrong (or so the thinking goes).

It looks like that kind of conflict might cause a big blowup between Kim and Jimmy/Saul in Ep 9. Kim will be thinking "This is a terrible thing that we did! We shouldn't allow ourselves to live with it and move on!" But Jimmy will want her to feel better immediately, so he'll be coming with the equivocations and the rationalizations. That might be a final straw that drives Kim (at least temporarily) out of his life.

I said something in another post about how Jimmy and Kim don't even glance at each other while Mike explains how he's gonna deal with the body. On a second viewing, I see it's not that simple. Kim is staring into space, shaken to the core. Jimmy is repeatedly looking at her and wanting her to be okay. Jimmy wanting her to be okay might be the thing that makes her give up on Jimmy forever, and that might be the thing that turns him into Saul.

It seems like a lack of remorse is the big thing that separates Saul Goodman from Jimmy McGill and Kim Wexler. It looks right now like Saul might develop that lack of remorse as a coping mechanism, starting with this event.

Not sure if I expect it to go this way or not, but it certainly seems like the simplest dramatic pathway at this point. If it does go this way, then I'd bet money that adult-Kim will come into contact with her mother again at some point in the remaining episodes. (The impending Carol Burnett cameo is probably about this.)

  

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Brew
Member since Nov 23rd 2002
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Thu Jul-14-22 09:55 AM

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299. "Damn - this makes a ton of sense. I could see it going this way."
In response to Reply # 298


          

>I didn't realize this at the time, but somebody pointed it
>out in the prestige TV podcast.
>
>In the shoplifting scene (where, BTW, she got the earrings
>that she's been wearing all this season), it looks like she's
>disappointed that her mother's scolding turned out to be fake.
>The pop psychology that people are throwing around is that Kim
>breaks rules in the hopes that someone she cares about will
>correct her and say that she's too good to be acting like
>that. When Mom laughs it off and says it's no big deal, Kim
>feels like it's infantilizing and dehumanizing her. She wants
>someone to care about her enough to tell her that something
>she did was wrong (or so the thinking goes).
>
>It looks like that kind of conflict might cause a big blowup
>between Kim and Jimmy/Saul in Ep 9. Kim will be thinking "This
>is a terrible thing that we did! We shouldn't allow ourselves
>to live with it and move on!" But Jimmy will want her to feel
>better immediately, so he'll be coming with the equivocations
>and the rationalizations. That might be a final straw that
>drives Kim (at least temporarily) out of his life.
>
>I said something in another post about how Jimmy and Kim don't
>even glance at each other while Mike explains how he's gonna
>deal with the body. On a second viewing, I see it's not that
>simple. Kim is staring into space, shaken to the core. Jimmy
>is repeatedly looking at her and wanting her to be okay. Jimmy
>wanting her to be okay might be the thing that makes her give
>up on Jimmy forever, and that might be the thing that turns
>him into Saul.
>
>It seems like a lack of remorse is the big thing that
>separates Saul Goodman from Jimmy McGill and Kim Wexler. It
>looks right now like Saul might develop that lack of remorse
>as a coping mechanism, starting with this event.
>
>Not sure if I expect it to go this way or not, but it
>certainly seems like the simplest dramatic pathway at this
>point. If it does go this way, then I'd bet money that
>adult-Kim will come into contact with her mother again at some
>point in the remaining episodes. (The impending Carol Burnett
>cameo is probably about this.)

----------------------------------------

"Fuck aliens." © WarriorPoet415

  

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stravinskian
Member since Feb 24th 2003
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Thu Jul-14-22 12:31 PM

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306. "That said, I hope (and expect) that it won't be quite that simple."
In response to Reply # 299


          


It just seems too neat and tidy. It also feels like the same trap that the writers have been manipulating us with all season. "Not poor Kim! Deep down, Kim's the good one, Saul's the bad one!" That may be true to a large extent, but if we fall into that line of thinking we might miss other elements.

Like Mike once said, regretting letting Lydia live after he thought she might have double-crossed them, "That's what I get for being sexist."

  

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pretentious username
Member since Jun 18th 2010
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Thu Jul-14-22 12:24 PM

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304. "Great read, it’s a really interesting character"
In response to Reply # 298


  

          

I went from “What is she doing with Jimmy?” to “Oh, she has a rebellious side too!” to “What is Jimmy doing with her?”

  

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Pamalama
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Thu Jul-14-22 06:03 PM

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308. "Didn’t Howard tell her this?"
In response to Reply # 298


          

Or would it count since he was the mark? At the same time, I think he did care about her.

>In the shoplifting scene (where, BTW, she got the earrings that she's been wearing all >this season), it looks like she's disappointed that her mother's scolding turned out to be >fake. The pop psychology that people are throwing around is that Kim breaks rules in >the hopes that someone she cares about will correct her and say that she's too good >to be acting like that. When Mom laughs it off and says it's no big deal, Kim feels like >it's infantilizing and dehumanizing her. She wants someone to care about her enough >to tell her that something she did was wrong (or so the thinking goes).

  

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stravinskian
Member since Feb 24th 2003
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Thu Jul-14-22 07:09 PM

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309. "I'm talking about Jimmy."
In response to Reply # 308


          

My point is not "Kim needs someone to tell her when she's done something wrong."

My point is that she resents it when she's done something she thinks is wrong, and someone else tries to tell her it's not a big deal.

The Kim/Howard relationship had all sorts of different pathologies that people have been talking about all season. And there was definitely a sort of (strained) mutual respect. But by the start of episode 8, that's all WAY in the past.

The problem that I'm anticipating is that Jimmy, specifically, will try to "help her get past it," when she doesn't believe it's something that could or should be gotten past.

Again, this is just my hypothesis of how episode 9 goes down, and again I both expect and hope that there's more to it than that. But Howard is a pawn at this point.

  

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Pamalama
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310. "Gotcha"
In response to Reply # 309


          

.

  

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allStah
Member since Jun 21st 2014
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Mon Jul-18-22 09:33 PM

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311. "Best episode of the season hands down! "
In response to Reply # 0


          

So much to unpack. I will chime in later.

The writers did there thing on this episode

ALL HAIL THE KING of LOSING: LEBRON
Bulls | Bears | White Sox | Yankees | Notre Dame | Illinois | Chelsea | Real Madrid

  

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stravinskian
Member since Feb 24th 2003
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Mon Jul-18-22 09:57 PM

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312. "I feel like Jimmy at Howard Hamlin's memorial."
In response to Reply # 0


          


Satisfying episode. Great episode. Low-key, but it got a lot of narrative work done.

Everybody's sad. And everybody deserves it.

They even got around to explaining why Tuco's in charge of the South Valley in Breaking Bad even though Gus already had an empire, lol.

I just checked, and sadly that yellow shirt is NOT the one Saul wore to his first meeting with public masturbator Brandon Mayhew, but I guess he'll get there tomorrow.


They've been saying next week's episode was gonna be called 'Nippy', but Peter Gould has already spilled the beans: its real name is 'Walt and Jesse.' Not really a surprise anymore.


The biggest news this week is Kim. I'm glad it went this way. (And now they're REALLY leading our expectations about where Gene Takavic is headed.)

There were rumors floating around that Kim was gonna die by suicide this episode. They were surprisingly convincing, so I was ready for the worst. But I guess we reached the limits of even these writers' sense of inevitable doom.

  

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DJR
Member since Jan 01st 2005
18638 posts
Mon Jul-18-22 09:58 PM

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313. "Heavy, dark, depressing episode "
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

But man, Jimmy sending her on her way with a Nutrigrain bar had me cracking up.

This episode was so good that I’m watching it again right now.

  

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mista k5
Member since Feb 01st 2006
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Tue Jul-19-22 09:48 AM

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315. "great episode"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

Real bummer. I think this is very much the BCS tone. They had me thinking we might get to see Kim and Jimmy play it off for at least another episode then the parking lot scene happened. Seeing him turn full blown into Saul was satisfying.

I think a recap I read said there was like a 3 year time jump based on the license plate. I imagine we will see the lab completely done now.

It kinds of feels like this was the last episode of BCS and the rest will just be filling in gaps to get to BB. Curious to see how they keep that interesting. Definitely plenty of potential.

Am I completely off for thinking that Kim could be the "fan" Gene bumps into at the mall?

  

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Nodima
Member since Jul 30th 2008
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Tue Jul-19-22 10:17 AM

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316. "BOOM"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

The scams are fun, the schemes are clever, the politics are endlessly fascinating but...when this crew lets their characters consider their actions and the results of them is when this story, Walt or Saul, always gets everything so right.


When you zoom out, it's clear Jimmy's most base need is an enabler, but every time he starts to feel like he's satisfied with his role - and satisfying them with his performance - he loses them.


Despite being a somewhat predictable outcome - Saul is a defense mechanism and performance to mask his repeated trauma - this episode really nailed how and why that is what it is. And I dig how they contrast that need for approval with Gus' need for recognition, how it kinda seemed like he almost wanted that meeting to out him as this master traitor just so his enemies could realize how cunning he is.


I was probably a little harsh on the return episode but this was an amazing culmination of so many things.


~~~~~~~~~
"This is the streets, and I am the trap." � Jay Bilas
http://www.popmatters.com/pm/archive/contributor/517
Hip Hop Handbook: http://tinyurl.com/ll4kzz

  

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Mynoriti
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Wed Jul-20-22 01:54 PM

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325. "i think you nailed this"
In response to Reply # 316


  

          

>When you zoom out, it's clear Jimmy's most base need is an
>enabler, but every time he starts to feel like he's satisfied
>with his role - and satisfying them with his performance - he
>loses them.

  

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Nodima
Member since Jul 30th 2008
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Sat Jul-23-22 03:09 AM

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344. "To me it's one of the only (or few) things you can draw through the OG"
In response to Reply # 325


  

          

Because even on that show, most of his situations are comedic relief not just because it's Odenkirk being funny but because he's slinging that legal jazz at people who don't know any better. But even then, in the little expansions they give Saul, it always felt like (and I haven't rewatched in a long time so maybe I'm the one retrofitting here) he wasn't as disappointed in the end of the Heisenberg so-called empire as he was losing these guys whose situations required him to get as galaxy brained as he possibly could.


I don't remember him seeming disappointed to lose his practice so much as the excuse, or inspiration, to flex his creativity within the practice.


~~~~~~~~~
"This is the streets, and I am the trap." � Jay Bilas
http://www.popmatters.com/pm/archive/contributor/517
Hip Hop Handbook: http://tinyurl.com/ll4kzz

  

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Brew
Member since Nov 23rd 2002
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Mon Jul-25-22 10:12 AM

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346. "Damn. Great analysis - thanks."
In response to Reply # 344


          

>Because even on that show, most of his situations are comedic
>relief not just because it's Odenkirk being funny but because
>he's slinging that legal jazz at people who don't know any
>better. But even then, in the little expansions they give
>Saul, it always felt like (and I haven't rewatched in a long
>time so maybe I'm the one retrofitting here) he wasn't as
>disappointed in the end of the Heisenberg so-called empire as
>he was losing these guys whose situations required him to get
>as galaxy brained as he possibly could.
>
>
>I don't remember him seeming disappointed to lose his practice
>so much as the excuse, or inspiration, to flex his creativity
>within the practice.

----------------------------------------

"Fuck aliens." © WarriorPoet415

  

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mrhood75
Member since Dec 06th 2004
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Tue Jul-19-22 01:38 PM

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317. "If not for the flash forwards, a great place for the series to end. "
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

Kim gone. Jimmy now fully Saul, alone, ruling over his Cathedral of Justice.

I'm pretty sure we don't need to see Gus or Mike ever again. Gus coming to the realization that his whole existence is fueled by his hate is the right note to end things for him. I guess I wouldn't **mind** seeing Mike again, but him discovering that some people just don't care if you're a "good" criminal is also an effective stopping point.

I could probably do without the Walt and Jesse appearances and have them go straight to Gene in Nebraska. Apparently, one of the show runners has said that there's going to be no ambiguity on what's happened to Kim, so I imagine we'll see her again in the finale.

I really hope they don't go the route of "she's flourishing without Saul." Because the point here seems to be that even though they were bad for each other, at least Saul is now a worse person without her. By having her doing great out on her own again leads back to it was Saul that was REAL problem all along, rather than both of them.

-----------------

www.albumism.com

Checkin' Our Style, Return To Zero:

https://www.mixcloud.com/returntozero/

  

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stravinskian
Member since Feb 24th 2003
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Tue Jul-19-22 02:53 PM

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319. "There probably won't be much Walt and Jesse "
In response to Reply # 317


          

POSSIBLE SPOILERS (not that I know anything other than what they've said publicly)

Somebody pinned down Bryan Cranston about how much they'll be doing in these final episodes, and apparently they shot a grand total of 3 scenes. One with just Jesse, one with just Walt, and one with both of them.

That said, the way they write scenes in this show, 3 scenes could be a hell of a lot of material.


The time jump is a little confusing to me. My initial assumption was that they'd jumped all the way to the morning of the "Better Call Saul" episode of Breaking Bad. But the Cadillac's registration sticker shows 2005, so that's just a year after Kim left, and three years *before* Walt and Jesse show up. So does next week's episode actually start in 2005? Or were they just showing us this scene to show us that the Saul persona only took one year to develop? Will they jump ahead to 2008 in the coming episode, or is there other important business in 2005 that we need to see? Supposedly the coming episode, number 10, is actually called 'Walt and Jesse,' so they must show up somewhere in this episode...

  

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mista k5
Member since Feb 01st 2006
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Tue Jul-19-22 03:48 PM

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320. "I think you got the time line right"
In response to Reply # 319


  

          

When I tried to explain it earlier it didn't seem right. Yours make sense from what I remember.

This show is so unpredictable sometimes so I don't know if the next episode will continue in 2005 or jump into 2008.

Kind of odd, I think I at least figured that most of BCS would be happening right before Breaking Bad and have the last 3/4 years shown in 4 episodes. I think the recap I read said that was the plan but the writers really liked Jimmy and Kim so decided to focus on that.

I'm trying to keep my expectations real low on Walt and Jesse. Like if they just pass in the background that makes enough sense.

If they find a way to actually have full scenes with them in a way that it adds to the story then cool but not what I'm expecting.

Kind of feels like we will get 20 minutes of different years in these last episodes. Maybe they spend a whole episode on one year but I'm kind of expecting multiple jumps.

  

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mrhood75
Member since Dec 06th 2004
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Tue Jul-19-22 05:08 PM

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323. "You brought up something I was thinking about"
In response to Reply # 320


  

          


>Kind of odd, I think I at least figured that most of BCS would
>be happening right before Breaking Bad and have the last 3/4
>years shown in 4 episodes. I think the recap I read said that
>was the plan but the writers really liked Jimmy and Kim so
>decided to focus on that.

The writers have always said that the O.G. plan was for Jimmy to "become" Saul by the beginning of Season 2. ("Did I dream it, or did I have $1.6 million on my desk in cash?") And that they'd originally conceived Chuck as Jimmy's advisor, rather than adversary. It's just that they decided they liked writing about Jimmy so much that they delayed things.

I wonder what type of show that would have been? Like, would it have been a series of one-offs in regards to Saul, with the Gus/Mike plotline still going on?

-----------------

www.albumism.com

Checkin' Our Style, Return To Zero:

https://www.mixcloud.com/returntozero/

  

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mista k5
Member since Feb 01st 2006
16414 posts
Tue Jul-19-22 05:52 PM

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324. "I think they made the right call"
In response to Reply # 323


  

          

The biggest draw back is that these actors have aged so if it had been a shorter show that wouldn't have been as big of a deal. That said, it doesn't really bother me.

I definitely typed what I wanted to say in that quote wrong. I was trying to say I came into the show expecting to mostly see Saul in the years right before Breaking Bad. Instead those years will now be covered in only 4 episodes, if they even are.

  

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Sofian_Hadi
Member since Jan 03rd 2003
5628 posts
Tue Jul-19-22 02:31 PM

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318. "Kim became a scumbag in the end. "
In response to Reply # 0


          

I never got the sympathy people have for her, other than Reha Sehorn being such an amazing actress. I wish she got more comeuppance for what she did to Howard and his wife.

Great Episode

---------------------------------------

"The world is before you and you need not take it or leave it as it was when you came in." - James Baldwin

  

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Mynoriti
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Wed Jul-20-22 02:04 PM

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326. "i wouldn't say that but i think she has somewhat of an addict's mindset"
In response to Reply # 318


  

          

and this was her bottom.

i think the last flashback with her mom was important, since she needed her mom to set her right, but she instead praised her, and i think it crossed some wires in her. Kim obviously has a clear sense of right and wrong, but when she gets that rush from the wrong, her rational brain is powerless against it.

she loves and cares for Jimmy but her attraction to him is all about the action.

  

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Sofian_Hadi
Member since Jan 03rd 2003
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Wed Jul-20-22 03:52 PM

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327. "She literally swooped in and convinced Howard's wife that he was on drug..."
In response to Reply # 326


          

with no remorse whatsoever...At a celebration of his life. She's def a scumbag. Ha. If anyone else does that we label them as the lowest of the low.

---------------------------------------

"The world is before you and you need not take it or leave it as it was when you came in." - James Baldwin

  

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stravinskian
Member since Feb 24th 2003
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Wed Jul-20-22 04:38 PM

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328. "Well, there was a lot of remorse."
In response to Reply # 327


          


Not sure I have an opinion about whether anyone in particular is a scumbag. About 2/3 of the beloved antiheroes in this series have done just as bad or worse.

But that moment was supposed to be Kim's "last straw," where she decided she couldn't live like this anymore and had to leave everything behind. This was implied by that cryptic kiss in the parking lot, but it's also specifically the impression that the director was trying to convey.

https://www.hollywoodreporter.com/tv/tv-features/better-call-saul-michael-morris-fun-and-games-interview-1235183042/

  

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Mynoriti
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Wed Jul-20-22 04:49 PM

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329. "no remorse??"
In response to Reply # 327
Wed Jul-20-22 04:50 PM by Mynoriti

  

          

i really don't get how are you seeing it that way, since lying to Howard's wife was THE final thing that made her drop her entire life because she realizes she can't just pretend, and this will just fade away, as Mike said.

howards wife starts sniffing around, her and Jimmy likely wind up dead. shit maybe even Howard's wife. as shitty as it was, she got them out of it.

edit: walked away mid reply and realized strav said the same thing lol

  

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Sofian_Hadi
Member since Jan 03rd 2003
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Wed Jul-20-22 10:40 PM

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330. "I guess i needed more of a Kim breakdown. Idk"
In response to Reply # 329
Wed Jul-20-22 11:08 PM by Sofian_Hadi

          

I've never bought her reasoning for going after Howard this hard....which ended up getting his brains blown out. I expected a psychotic breakdown, not just a "I'm quitting law and we're poison together." I wasn't buying suicide like some fan theories, but I needed more from her.

---------------------------------------

"The world is before you and you need not take it or leave it as it was when you came in." - James Baldwin

  

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Mynoriti
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Thu Jul-21-22 02:07 PM

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331. "*shrug* she gave up her entire life"
In response to Reply # 330
Thu Jul-21-22 02:12 PM by Mynoriti

  

          

of course her reasons for going so hard at howard were bullshit. she knows that.
again that's that addict brain at work.
and gaslighting howard's wife was an ultimate dirtbag move to top it off. she knows that too, and it was the final straw

it seemed clear enough to me she was broken. i didn't need her to *look* more upset.

  

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Brew
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Thu Jul-21-22 03:35 PM

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335. "^ right."
In response to Reply # 331


          

----------------------------------------

"Fuck aliens." © WarriorPoet415

  

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Brew
Member since Nov 23rd 2002
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Thu Jul-21-22 03:35 PM

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334. "Going back to post #277 in here, looks like ..."
In response to Reply # 330


          

... you are the type of person who's most drawn in to a show by fireworks and high energy episodes. Which is fine ! But this show isn't known for that, generally speaking. So I'm not surprised to see you letdown by a slower (yet still plot-moving) episode such as this one.

Again, not a criticism at all, everyone's tastes are different. Just an observation.

----------------------------------------

"Fuck aliens." © WarriorPoet415

  

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Nodima
Member since Jul 30th 2008
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Sat Jul-23-22 03:23 AM

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345. "I've been down on this season at point but not for this."
In response to Reply # 330


  

          

It always felt like "not buying" Jimmy and Kim's antagonism of Howard was pretty much the point. They had a lot going on, whether you wanted to focus on the looming threat of the cartel or their potential to be an incredibly effective husband and wife weapon for the little guys...but for myriads of reasons, they saw their inspirations as things to belittle or outright destroy rather than simply rise above. Having Gus and Mike be such significant parts of this story emphasizes that. Jimmy can't let go of Chuck doubting him (for good reason), Kim can't let go of Howard's silver spoon (for good reason), Gus can't forgive the cartel's hollow sense of justice (I'll admit there's a better word here) (for good reason) and Mike can't resist trying to square his ideal of justice with his skepticism of "the rules" (for good reason).


It hasn't always made for the best TV - especially taken week to week and immediately running to message boards to ramble thoughts - but it's remarkably consistent with the themes of the show and the way these characters react to their situations, IMO.


~~~~~~~~~
"This is the streets, and I am the trap." � Jay Bilas
http://www.popmatters.com/pm/archive/contributor/517
Hip Hop Handbook: http://tinyurl.com/ll4kzz

  

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Cold Truth
Member since Jan 28th 2004
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Thu Jul-21-22 04:30 PM

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337. "That was sheer self-preservation. "
In response to Reply # 327


  

          

The options are, let her keep digging and find some loose thread on Howard’s end that implicates Jimmy- and thus Kim, or shut it down, as effectively as possible.

Calling her a scumbag for that specific moment is a gross oversimplification.

She’s definitely fallen. But there were no good options in that moment.

  

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Mynoriti
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Thu Jul-21-22 04:41 PM

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338. "yeah she also saw Jimmy's defense didn't move the needle"
In response to Reply # 337
Thu Jul-21-22 04:52 PM by Mynoriti

  

          

she went harder than i expected and it was grimey, but it did the trick.

i think she also shocked herself by how instinctively she was able to step in and do that. especially after howard's murder.
it's when she knew she had to walk away.

  

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Cold Truth
Member since Jan 28th 2004
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Thu Jul-21-22 05:21 PM

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340. "Yep. IMO it needed to be grimey. The only out is Howard’s spiral"
In response to Reply # 338


  

          

At face value, it’s far more plausible that Howard got caught mid-spiral and teiwd to blame Jimmy as damage control, once his reputation started taking hits.

Without that, it’s hard not to keep looking in Jimmy’s direction regarding Howard’s death.

And while we can quibble over whether Howard deserved to have his life and career destroyed- he’s hardly sympathetic IMO, even if it was going way too far- his literal death was not part of that plan.

It’s hard to fault her decision in that moment.

It’s not dissimilar to Jimmy’s dismantling of Chuck in Chicanery, in that the best defense was the nuclear option on offense.

  

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Beamer6178
Member since Jan 09th 2006
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Mon Aug-08-22 08:11 PM

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473. "that was an interesting choice"
In response to Reply # 327


  

          

>with no remorse whatsoever...At a celebration of his life.
>She's def a scumbag. Ha. If anyone else does that we label
>them as the lowest of the low.

i think she could have just as effectively shared how Howard had confided that their marriage was over. it would have salvaged his legacy, further supported why he would taken his own life, and kept his wife from acting like she played no role in Howard's downfall.

  

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stravinskian
Member since Feb 24th 2003
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Tue Aug-16-22 02:55 PM

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575. "That is another interesting wrinkle in this story."
In response to Reply # 473
Tue Aug-16-22 02:58 PM by stravinskian

          

They made a point of showing us, very clearly, that Cheryl was putting Howard through hell in their marriage, and that was while he was still alive to feel it. Maybe it was justified, who knows, marriage is hard. But Howard ended life with a rich tapestry of woes.

* Cheryl (plausibly) made Howard's life miserable while he was still alive. And it seemed like she and his therapist were the only ones who knew about that.

* Mike was the person responsible for Howard's death (or, second to Lalo), because he assured Kim that everything was taken care of with Lalo, guys would be watching over them at all times, and that she should continue life normally. And as Kim very pointedly remarked to Mike just after they spoke in Gus's front room, he completely dropped the ball on that.

* Kim did things that seriously hurt his reputation after he died.


Of the three, Kim's sin seems the least severe, but yet it's the only one people are talking about.

  

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Mynoriti
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Tue Jul-19-22 03:50 PM

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321. "MASTERFUL execution. "
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

they tie up everything so seamlessly.

The realization by everyone that there's no turning back.

Jimmy hanging on to what's basically a fantasy, based on Mike's advice about how they'll just forget and move on. Kim knows its hogwash, and she's the final thread between Jimmy going full Saul.

Mike somewhat failing to believe it himself as he believes he can comfort Nacho's dad, because Mike still sees himself as a good man... only to be rebuffed (just like with Zeigler's friend) about who he really is.

After Gus' successful sit down with the cartel, probably spurred by the pool, and memory of Max that maybe he can connect with another man, even for a short time, and just snapping out of it. i'm unsure what exactly pulled him back, but it's maybe the only moments we ever see genuine smiles from Gus.

the time jump was as perfect as you can get. I was expecting it next episode.. this was wayy better ('breakfast bar, go ahead and grab one')

blown away by how good this was

  

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stravinskian
Member since Feb 24th 2003
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Tue Jul-19-22 04:55 PM

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322. "Yeah, Gus's scene was the saddest of them all."
In response to Reply # 321


          


(At least until one remembers the box cutter scene from Breaking Bad...)

I think he's just generally aware that personal relationships are a luxury that he can't afford. They would inevitably lead to the death of either him or his partner. And having just spent an evening next to the pool where Max was killed, it was especially close to his mind.

It seems like a realization similar to the one Kim had, but it's much more bleak.

  

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mrhood75
Member since Dec 06th 2004
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Thu Jul-21-22 02:17 PM

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332. "Again, why did Saul buy a a dust filter for a Hoover Max Extract 60?"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

I'm pretty sure I've asked this here before, but I'm still not convinced there's a legit answer beyond, "We wanted to make Better Call Saul."

He wasn't on the run from the Mexican cartel, because they were all dead. The Nazis didn't care about him. There's no indication that the feds were after him. And even though he was Walter White's attorney, the DEA wouldn't be able to tie him to the deaths of Schrader and Gomez. I really can't imagine Huell "disappearing" would spook him enough to run. And even if it turns out the feds were running an ongoing investigation that was never mentioned, he was a rich lawyer who could afford a pretty hot shit attorney.

So unless in these last four episodes they reveal that Saul had gotten involved with another crew of very unsavory characters and shit hit the fan **right** at the time that it all went sideways for Walter, I don't know what the legit story-line explanation there is for him following the path that would lead him to Omaha.

-----------------

www.albumism.com

Checkin' Our Style, Return To Zero:

https://www.mixcloud.com/returntozero/

  

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stravinskian
Member since Feb 24th 2003
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Thu Jul-21-22 02:43 PM

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333. "I dunno, I still think it was mostly the Heisenberg stuff."
In response to Reply # 332
Thu Jul-21-22 02:46 PM by stravinskian

          

Yeah, he wasn't directly involved in any of the killing or the cooking, but he was neck-deep in the financial side of things, and Francesca can only shred so much evidence for you (and that alone is a felony). As Saul himself argued: it worked for Al Capone, it could work for Saul Goodman. Attorney-client privilege usually doesn't cover acts that facilitate crime. So as soon as Jesse becomes a major suspect, the guy who represented him through multiple arrests becomes the biggest target the feds have, if they can find him.

And as for the cartel, I don't think it's clear how much Saul knew about the state of it. Saul never met Gus in either series and Mike never gave more information than he absolutely needed to give him. I think they've made a pretty convincing case in the last couple of episodes for why Saul would maintain an inextinguishable fear of them, long after they seem to be gone.

That said, the writers do have an opportunity right now to retcon a bunch of things and give us a lot of the intrigue that was "offstage" in the Breaking Bad years, so I'm really looking forward to that.

  

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allStah
Member since Jun 21st 2014
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Thu Jul-21-22 03:59 PM

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336. "THE FEDS!"
In response to Reply # 332
Thu Jul-21-22 04:02 PM by allStah

          

He helped Walt and Jesse embezzle close to half a billion dollars. They know,
because Jesse filled them in on it, and Hank taped it all, and they made Huel
talk.

And it was no secret that he was Walt’s lawyer and launder, because Walt was
in and out of the office out in the open, so people in the underworld knew.

And now that Saul is a wanted man, and is being hunted down by
the FBI, his other notorious clients want him dead so their illegal operations
aren’t jeopardized.

That’s why he got the hell out of dodge quick as shit....Saul
knows the streets.

Remember when him and Walt were both at the vacuum shop waiting
to be shipped out, and Saul was explaining to him about all the RICO charges
on top of the drug charges that were going to come down on his operation?.....
Saul was part of that operation.

Thing I love about Saul is that he thinks fast as shit....




ALL HAIL THE KING of LOSING: LEBRON
Bulls | Bears | White Sox | Yankees | Notre Dame | Illinois | Chelsea | Real Madrid

  

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Mynoriti
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Thu Jul-21-22 05:06 PM

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339. "Yup"
In response to Reply # 336


  

          

that's waaay too much smoke around him, and all these threads that lead his way

you got missing agents, and Saul has no idea what Jesse told the feds, and there's no reason to believe it just stayed with Hank and Gomie.

plus we see the feds clearing his house. he was smart to bounce

  

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allStah
Member since Jun 21st 2014
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Thu Jul-21-22 05:48 PM

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341. "Yeah, the Feds dead confiscate his possessions..."
In response to Reply # 339


          

That was the opening scene to the season, right?

ALL HAIL THE KING of LOSING: LEBRON
Bulls | Bears | White Sox | Yankees | Notre Dame | Illinois | Chelsea | Real Madrid

  

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Cold Truth
Member since Jan 28th 2004
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Fri Jul-22-22 10:42 AM

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342. "Skyler knows about Saul’s involvement in the laundering schemes"
In response to Reply # 332
Fri Jul-22-22 10:45 AM by Cold Truth

  

          

She’s a hanging thread he can’t afford to ingnore.

Sure, the car wash was her idea.

But Saul’s goon (Burr) facilitated it. And he still made multiple efforts to get his own ideas in the mix. Not only that, he was a silent partner. Maybe Skyler knew that, maybe she didn’t.

But what she does know kicks wide open every potential door to his involvement.

She also knows about his involvement in Ted’s accident, but that’s light by comparison.

Saul played a pivotal role in a massive drug ring, countless murders, not to mention the impact of the drugs themselves.

Even if he’s not responsible for the murders of two DEA agents, that shit would play heavy in throwing every page of every book at him. Whatever the reaulting investigation into his life, finances, ties, etc… that shit was going to be *thorough*

Her life is *fucked* and she potentially has the power to burn Saul to the ground.

He could bet in her holding the line if she doesn’t see an advantage in telling them
everything.

Problem is, Walt was public enemy #1 after Hank’s death. So if they can’t get Walt, they’ll put the screws to anyone close. And if Skyler talks, Saul is done.

Even if he somehow managed to Saul Good, Man his way out of that level of legal problems, he’s done.

He’s absolutely disbarred, and could still face serious consequences on that front.

His life is over, with no golden parachute.

Getting disappeared is the nuclear option, and at least affords him some semblance of a life. It’s a prison of it’s own kind, sure, but it’s not federal lockup, and it’s not life in the aftermath of being drug through the mud as an accomplice to the moat notorious drug dealer in American history.

IMO it’s pretty clear.

Skyler was an existential threat.

This was the best of all possible options.

  

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Mynoriti
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Fri Jul-22-22 03:13 PM

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343. "yeah, all this too"
In response to Reply # 342


  

          

he helped her with the Ted thing but it's not like they were in any way Chummy. they tolerated each other because of Walt.

  

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stravinskian
Member since Feb 24th 2003
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Mon Jul-25-22 09:13 PM

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347. "Holy shit Gene Takavic is my goddamn hero!"
In response to Reply # 0
Mon Jul-25-22 09:18 PM by stravinskian

          

I stand corrected on what the name of this episode was "supposed" to be. Now I wonder what the story was with this episode title.

Right after I saw him wheel her away, I was certain that they were gonna confirm my intuition that Carol Burnett was gonna play Kim's aged mom. Didn't expect it to go the way that it did, but in retrospect it all seems perfect (a common event in this series).

That pinky ring that Gene put on ... that was his friend Marco's ring, who he used to run the scams with in Cicero.

One of the podcasts remarked last week that these closing episodes would be a little avant garde and likely divisive. Supposedly that's why last week's episode tied most things up so cleanly (like that's the 'normal' finale). They certainly surprised me this week, but that's what I'm here for!

  

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Cold Truth
Member since Jan 28th 2004
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Tue Jul-26-22 03:51 AM

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349. "Oh I feel the division already. This ep can suck a thousand dicks"
In response to Reply # 347
Tue Jul-26-22 03:54 AM by Cold Truth

  

          

I’m ride or die with this show. I’m all in on everything. My criticisms are minimal.

I’m dyed in the wool.

This isn’t the pain of Nacho’s death either.
This isn’t the heartbreak of Kim’s completed fall and exit


This isn’t the exhilaration from an engaging roller coaster

This was just waiting, and waiting, and waiting, and fucking waiting, and waiting aome god. Damn. More.

All for one pretty cool moment that, let’s face it, is a dime a dozen for Saul/Jimmy.

The satisfaction gained was neutralized by the slow, plodding, drag of everything that preceded it.

Jimmy finding a way to make the “geezers” hate his guts was entertaining.
Save Hule? Brilliant.
Engineering his termination from Davis & Main? Hilarious.
Setting up Chuck’s bitch ass? Oh hell yeah. I’m with it.

This one was like they saw those and thought, let’s do that, but suck out everything engaging and enthralling about it out of this one, then make it feel like time is moving at 1/4 normal speed, and do it with only three eps left in the fucking show!

Fuck this ep.

  

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stravinskian
Member since Feb 24th 2003
12698 posts
Tue Jul-26-22 08:08 AM

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351. "Haha, I'll admit I have a fetish for subverted expectations."
In response to Reply # 349


          

For me, above all, this episode was "Whatever happens next, it's not gonna go down the way you think it is." They're answering questions that I didn't know I was asking, and upsetting everything I think I know about what the end of this story is supposed to be. Is this the chronological end? Was Gene walking off into the sunset after he held up that shirt and tie? If there's no more to be said about Gene, is there any more to be said about Kim?!

For the record, of course there'll be more Kim. (Well, I *think* there'll be more Kim, though I'm no longer 100% sure we'll see her on camera again or that she'll ever know that Gene was in Omaha.) But what's her function in the story now? Does this dip back into Slippin' Jimmy make it easier or harder for Gene to gather the courage to find her? Is there more that Gene knows about Kim already at this point that the writers haven't shown us yet?

Slowness doesn't bother me. It's about rhythm and dynamic contrast. This wasn't "Point and Shoot." It was the opposite of that in basically every way, and it had to be. The game that matters to Jimmy isn't about life and death, and it's not really even about making money. It's about knowing people well enough to overcome the apparent randomness of day to day life. The world is tedious to Gene because it's predictable. But that predictable nature gives him the power to take control over his destiny, something he doesn't feel like he's had in a long long time.

I totally agree that this is an episode that'll be beloved by some and hated by many. I'm not gonna call this episode a masterpiece, and I don't think all that many people will see it as particularly special in and of itself. It was very skillfully written and shot, and I don't think anyone can dispute the magic of Bob Odenkirk and 90+ year old Carol Burnett playing off of each other like they did. But ultimately, in and of itself, it was a minor story with a minor caper, as you noted. The Black and White would have felt needlessly pretentious even to me if not for the fact that they've simply set that up as the signature of Gene Takavic's story over the course of all six seasons.

But the fact that this caper came when it did, how it did, means a lot for the story of this character. The fact that the detailed planning was as boring as icing a tray of Cinnabons means a hell of a lot -- for Jimmy, the con is not about who does what to whom. It's about who knows what, and when. Gene has rediscovered who he is, and the realization made icing the next day's tray of Connabons so satisfying that he forgets to go to lunch. (I think everyone who's worked in a mall knows that the first half of the day you're only thinking about lunch, and the last half of the day you're only thinking about going home.)

This episode made me more confident that Jimmy McGill, Slippin' Jimmy, and Saul Goodman really were all the same person, because Gene Takavic manages to be all three of them at once.

  

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Cold Truth
Member since Jan 28th 2004
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Tue Jul-26-22 11:53 AM

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362. "Fuck that, fuck you, fuck Vince, fuck this show, I’m out"
In response to Reply # 351


  

          

Ok not really but I’m so goddamned attached to this show, that’s how it feels, if that makes sense.

You do raise some interesting perspectives. I’ll give it a fresh watch after a few days, through the lense of your thoughts, and see if I feel the same way.

This is a great show and story. I really need them to stick the landing!

  

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stravinskian
Member since Feb 24th 2003
12698 posts
Tue Jul-26-22 12:18 PM

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363. "Lol, nah, you have just as much right to be mad as I do to celebrate the..."
In response to Reply # 362


          

I hope you come around on it, just because it's a super fun episode if you can get into it.

But I'm just as eager as you are to see them close the series out in a way that's satisfying for everybody. For any other team I'd say that's impossible, but I think they did it with Breaking Bad. (And actually, I hated Felina for a long time after I saw it.) And I think we can all agree that they've generally been on the top of their game this season, even when a lot of us have gotten antsy.

  

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mista k5
Member since Feb 01st 2006
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Tue Jul-26-22 09:41 AM

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354. "It was a great episode"
In response to Reply # 347
Tue Jul-26-22 09:47 AM by mista k5

  

          

Jimmy's gonna Jimmy. I'm thinking this is the last we see of Gene.

I definitely felt like last week was the finale but I didn't actually expect it to pretty much be it. Only complaint about this episode is that it felt weird coming after last week. I'm guessing they knew people wouldn't go for this being the last episode but who knows what else is coming.

I'm always happy to see Jerry. Would have been hilarious if he had a picture of his wife and it was the same one from Parks and Rec. Gotta love Larry enjoying some Cinnabon. Good old Lenny couldn't help himself. It was nice seeing Terry be there for Gene. Hopefully he doesn't need to return to being Mailman Barry.

  

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Cold Truth
Member since Jan 28th 2004
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Tue Jul-26-22 03:41 AM

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348. "30 minutes into this ep. This ending better be nothing short of mind-blo..."
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

Because, this far, this shit is a bonus extra. It’s filler.

Spoilers, I guess.




It’s cool to see Gene getting his Slippin Jimmy on. But this shit dragged. I was getting impatient by the tome he started pacing his steps out.

They’re packing that box now and I have to say, I don’t give a fuck. The little heart to heart with the security guard damn near put mr to sleep.

And the black and white, for this length of time, isn’t helping.

42 minutes in and I want my fucking time back. Gene ca. get his head blown off right now for all I care.

I’m sure there’s already some think piece out there blowing Vince for the “masterpiece” or whatever




OH FUCK YES SAUL CHECKED THIS LITTLE BITCH

Sweet white baby jesus I never doubted for a second!

Ok now I’m back to earth

This ep still blows, payoff be damned. That was still a beautiful flex though.

  

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Numba_33
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350. "Not reusing the same actor for the taxi driver"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

took me a bit out of the episode. Hurts even more that the original actor was a good mix of being coy and menacing. Would be been interesting to see him in the mix compared to the actor that was used for last night's episode.

Pretty certain I've said this already in this thread, but I have a feeling breaking up this last season into two batches won't payoff as these last run of episodes will be looked at with added scrutiny compared to if they were run without any breaks.

"Sean sparks like John Starks, nah, Sean ball like John Wall" - Rest In Power Forever Sean Price.

  

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stravinskian
Member since Feb 24th 2003
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Tue Jul-26-22 08:27 AM

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352. "Yeah, the previous actor made me genuinely uneasy."
In response to Reply # 350
Tue Jul-26-22 08:41 AM by stravinskian

          

This guy was basically playing a whole different character who bore almost no resemblance other than the "ocular migraine he calls" a sweater.

If anyone hasn't heard, the guy who played the cabbie in season 5 had a contractual obligation to another show (We Own This City), so they couldn't get him back and had to recast.

But they didn't have to make him into such a different character.

I can see some intention in it, though. I make excuses for shows that I love, but here's my thinking. Before Gene talked to Ed, he saw the cabbie as a genuine threat, basically on the same order as Lalo Salamanca. He wasn't gonna kill Gene, but he just might tear away every tiny shard of independence and self-determination that Saul Goodman fought so hard to retain. But after Gene heard Ed's voice, he remembered all he'd been through and all that he's capable of. When that pilot light got lit again, Jeff the ghost of Saul's past, who knows too much, became Jeffy the washout living with his mom and trying to pay off the mortgage on his taxi medallion.

That guy who conned Jimmy's dad out of ten bucks and a new set of sparkplugs, many seasons back, told young Jimmy that this world has wolves and sheep. And he needs to figure out which one he's gonna be. When Kim destroyed whatever threat the Kettlemans thought they posed to their plan, back in "Carrot and Stick," Jimmy learned that Kim is a wolf, and he basically said it out loud. Before his call to Ed, Gene thought Jeff was a wolf and Gene was the sheep. After that call, Gene was the wolf and Jeffy was the sheep.

  

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Numba_33
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353. "Thanks for that added info."
In response to Reply # 352


  

          

>This guy was basically playing a whole different character
>who bore almost no resemblance other than the "ocular migraine
>he calls" a sweater.
>
>If anyone hasn't heard, the guy who played the cabbie in
>season 5 had a contractual obligation to another show (We Own
>This City), so they couldn't get him back and had to recast.


He packed on a ton of added weight on We Own This City compared to how he looked in that prior flash forward on Better Call Saul, so I doubt it would have worked out with him returning to Better Call Saul. I still would have preferred him on last night's episode since I think he's the much better actor, but I have to admit the size difference would have been a problem.


>But they didn't have to make him into such a different
>character.
>
>I can see some intention in it, though. I make excuses for
>shows that I love, but here's my thinking. Before Gene talked
>to Ed, he saw the cabbie as a genuine threat, basically on the
>same order as Lalo Salamanca. He wasn't gonna kill Gene, but
>he just might tear away every tiny shard of independence and
>self-determination that Saul Goodman fought so hard to retain.
>But after Gene heard Ed's voice, he remembered all he'd been
>through and all that he's capable of. When that pilot light
>got lit again, Jeff the ghost of Saul's past, who knows too
>much, became Jeffy the washout living with his mom and trying
>to pay off the mortgage on his taxi medallion.
>
>That guy who conned Jimmy's dad out of ten bucks and a new set
>of sparkplugs, many seasons back, told young Jimmy that this
>world has wolves and sheep. And he needs to figure out which
>one he's gonna be. When Kim destroyed whatever threat the
>Kettlemans thought they posed to their plan, back in "Carrot
>and Stick," Jimmy learned that Kim is a wolf, and he basically
>said it out loud. Before his call to Ed, Gene thought Jeff was
>a wolf and Gene was the sheep. After that call, Gene was the
>wolf and Jeffy was the sheep.

A small part of me is impressed with the heavy lifting you did here with this interpretation, but a break in continuity is a break in continuity regardless.

"Sean sparks like John Starks, nah, Sean ball like John Wall" - Rest In Power Forever Sean Price.

  

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Brew
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Tue Jul-26-22 10:27 AM

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356. "Doesn't look like he put on a ton of weight at all ?"
In response to Reply # 353


          

>He packed on a ton of added weight on We Own This City
>compared to how he looked in that prior flash forward on
>Better Call Saul, so I doubt it would have worked out with him
>returning to Better Call Saul. I still would have preferred
>him on last night's episode since I think he's the much better
>actor, but I have to admit the size difference would have been
>a problem.

Look at the first two pics in this article ..
https://www.slashfilm.com/923471/why-cab-driver-jeff-was-recast-in-better-call-sauls-final-episodes/


>A small part of me is impressed with the heavy lifting you did
>here with this interpretation, but a break in continuity is a
>break in continuity regardless.

LOL agreed. That was very well done/written by strav, and makes a lot of sense. But I still prefer continuity as well.

----------------------------------------

"Fuck aliens." © WarriorPoet415

  

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stravinskian
Member since Feb 24th 2003
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Tue Jul-26-22 10:38 AM

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357. "Oh I would have preferred the continuity too."
In response to Reply # 356


          


(Well, kinda. I generally think realism is overvalued in fictional stories. But that's an artsy fartsy argument for another time.)

I would have preferred the same actor because the change in the character would have been even more satisfying if we'd gotten to see the performance change. It's like Jimmy vs Saul vs Gene, in miniature.

My only point is that the disconnect in the *character* was intentional, even though the disconnect in the actors was not. And at first I got those two mixed up.

  

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Brew
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Tue Jul-26-22 10:46 AM

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358. "Yea I got you. And agree."
In response to Reply # 357


          

>(Well, kinda. I generally think realism is overvalued in
>fictional stories. But that's an artsy fartsy argument for
>another time.)
>
>I would have preferred the same actor because the change in
>the character would have been even more satisfying if we'd
>gotten to see the performance change. It's like Jimmy vs Saul
>vs Gene, in miniature.
>
>My only point is that the disconnect in the *character* was
>intentional, even though the disconnect in the actors was not.
>And at first I got those two mixed up.

----------------------------------------

"Fuck aliens." © WarriorPoet415

  

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Numba_33
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361. "I don't know if you watched We Own This City"
In response to Reply # 357


  

          

but the actor portrayed a largely benign and pleasant to be around character despite the fact he was an authority figure investigating crooked cops. He wasn't menacing or foreboding at all.

I think he could have pulled off the character change once Jimmy/Saul/Gene leveled that threat at the end of the episode, which would have been much satisfying IMO.

"Sean sparks like John Starks, nah, Sean ball like John Wall" - Rest In Power Forever Sean Price.

  

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stravinskian
Member since Feb 24th 2003
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Tue Jul-26-22 12:22 PM

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364. "I haven't seen it yet, but everything I've read says he's a great actor."
In response to Reply # 361


          


And he could have done great with it. Yeah, it's a shame.

On the Insider podcast, Peter Gould just basically shrugged and said something like "I hope people can forgive us for the inconsistency." Sounds like there was just nothing they could do about it.

  

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Numba_33
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360. "When I get home tonight"
In response to Reply # 356


  

          

I'll see if I can find youtube clips from We Own This City, but I remember that character sporting a very rotund midsection. He looked a lot heavier then he did in that photo where's he's sitting down at the desk in the article you linked.

"Sean sparks like John Starks, nah, Sean ball like John Wall" - Rest In Power Forever Sean Price.

  

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Brew
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Tue Jul-26-22 12:42 PM

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365. "Word fair enough."
In response to Reply # 360


          

And yea the pic I provided, I concede, isn't exactly the right angle to judge someone's weight by. But I just figured I'd see some significant change in his face shape if he had in fact gained a lot of weight, as you suggested. But weight gain manifests differently in everyone so I'm sure you saw it right.

What a weird side convo to be having, by the way. Hah.

----------------------------------------

"Fuck aliens." © WarriorPoet415

  

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Numba_33
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370. "There aren't a ton of clips of the show on Youtube"
In response to Reply # 356


  

          

https://youtu.be/ujoeU3Gxd04?t=151

That's the best I could find.

Outside of this exercise, I would suggest folks watch the show on its own, provided you have a subscription to HBO Max.

"Sean sparks like John Starks, nah, Sean ball like John Wall" - Rest In Power Forever Sean Price.

  

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Mynoriti
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375. "he didn't look much heavier, and considering Todd was about 100lbs"
In response to Reply # 370


  

          

heavier in El Camino, i doubt this would have even been noticed much

  

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Numba_33
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432. "This is probably bordering on sacrilege"
In response to Reply # 375


  

          

to admit in this thread, but I never saw El Camino to completion. I saw bits and pieces on Youtube and I know the Todd character got bigger because I vaguely remember a scene where he kills his maid that made his gigantic head stick out in my mind. That maid scene, the shootout that occurs at the end, and the Walt cameo are the only scenes I remember from the bits and pieces I've seen since the movie came out.

The thought of sitting down for an hour and a half to two hours for a movie dedicated to Jesse bothers me for some reason.

"Sean sparks like John Starks, nah, Sean ball like John Wall" - Rest In Power Forever Sean Price.

  

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mrhood75
Member since Dec 06th 2004
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Tue Jul-26-22 01:36 PM

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366. "Yeah, it took me out of it for a bit too."
In response to Reply # 350


  

          

I found out about the "We Own This City" commitments right after, so I at least understand. I assume they planned on using the same guy, but Odenkirk's heart attack delayed production, so they ran up against his other contractual obligations. Not the first time that BB-related shows have been effected like this: Tuco was supposed to be a much bigger part of season two, but they only had Raymond Cruz on loan from "The Closer," so they had to kill him off earlier than planned.

I agree that story-telling wise, breaking up the season hasn't worked, but there's no real working around your main character having a heart attack. Plus, I'm sure it didn't hurt that it gave the show a crack at two sets of Emmys for the final season.

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Mynoriti
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367. "that really bothered me tbh"
In response to Reply # 350
Tue Jul-26-22 04:08 PM by Mynoriti

  

          

for reasons already mentioned. the og actor was far more intimidating, but not to the point where he couldn't pretty easily been broken by Saul.

I don't really know how i feel about this episode, and i've been wanting a full Gene episode for years.

It's good on its own but i don't know how i feel about the placement of it in the final stretch.

  

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mrhood75
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Tue Jul-26-22 06:34 PM

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369. "It definitely feels weird."
In response to Reply # 367
Tue Jul-26-22 06:37 PM by mrhood75

  

          

I guess they wanted to tie up all the “unfinished” business before they got back to Gene.

And I get it, but I’m not sure where the show goes from here with three more episodes. It would be weird to jump back to Albuquerque. What do you do with Gene? They’ve run out of Cinnabon story. Im guessing they’d going to have him try and reconnect with Kim, but i don’t what else there is to do.

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Brew
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368. "I was laughing out loud when dude was just lying on the floor."
In response to Reply # 0


          

I dunno why I found it so funny but I was legit cracking up whenever the camera showed the security screen with that idiot just laying there motionless.

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pretentious username
Member since Jun 18th 2010
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Fri Jul-29-22 07:59 AM

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382. "And Gene fake-moaning to give him some more time lol"
In response to Reply # 368


  

          

>I dunno why I found it so funny but I was legit cracking up
>whenever the camera showed the security screen with that idiot
>just laying there motionless.

  

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Nodima
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Wed Jul-27-22 01:51 AM

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371. "Couldn't remember the cabbie character at all, good for y'all."
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

This episode reminded me of when the Fargo show was really hitting, just a bunch of charming and believable dialogue. As a Nebraska native, all that Husker talk was beyond the pale. I can't believe Taylor Martinez and Kenny Bell got so much boom.

Then the casting of Carol Burnett and Gerry/Jerry. Clearly this was gonna turn out to be a bit of a Scooby Doo episode. Yes, total prestige TV navel gazing indulgence, but like many smart people have pointed out this show is already pretty much over. I'd be totally happy with two more short stories like this.

MY big gripe is that they continue to commit to the Nebraska of it all in every instance but the actual mall. You search that mall, it's an Albequerque mall. "Cottonwood" means very little in this city for years and it's only recently a remodel of the Blackstone Hotel, nowhere near a mall. How are they gonna so accurately represent the disquieting beginning of the Pelini era only to toss off such a primary location?

In the end I blame our state legislature for being too lame to do whatever it took to force this show to treat Gene's adoptive home with the same authenticity as New Mexico, and I bet MAYBE 500 people in this state are watching this show, but man! Couldn't they have at least made the signs say "Westroads"?

~~~~~~~~~
"This is the streets, and I am the trap." � Jay Bilas
http://www.popmatters.com/pm/archive/contributor/517
Hip Hop Handbook: http://tinyurl.com/ll4kzz

  

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KnowOne
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372. "cabbie character was recast so that may be a factor"
In response to Reply # 371


  

          

in not remembering him. Looks completely different.

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mista k5
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373. "I was curious about the mall"
In response to Reply # 371


  

          

Being from actually west Texas/southern NM it looked very much like something you'd find here. Now most malls look very similar but that Cottonwood name stood out to me too. I didn't look into it though. Would have been a nice touch for the locals if they had gone the extra mile.

  

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Numba_33
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374. "That's unfortunate to read."
In response to Reply # 371


  

          

>MY big gripe is that they continue to commit to the Nebraska
>of it all in every instance but the actual mall. You search
>that mall, it's an Albequerque mall. "Cottonwood" means very
>little in this city for years and it's only recently a remodel
>of the Blackstone Hotel, nowhere near a mall. How are they
>gonna so accurately represent the disquieting beginning of the
>Pelini era only to toss off such a primary location?
>
>In the end I blame our state legislature for being too lame to
>do whatever it took to force this show to treat Gene's
>adoptive home with the same authenticity as New Mexico, and I
>bet MAYBE 500 people in this state are watching this show, but
>man! Couldn't they have at least made the signs say
>"Westroads"?

Especially since I'm assuming the show went to Germany for those exterior shots involving Lalo stalking the engineer's ex-wife. Were those exterior shots fugazi as well?

I'm hoping it was time constraints and/or weather related reasons were the reasons why the show couldn't actually shoot the mall scenes in Nebraska.

"Sean sparks like John Starks, nah, Sean ball like John Wall" - Rest In Power Forever Sean Price.

  

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Nodima
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376. "It’s always been NM"
In response to Reply # 374
Wed Jul-27-22 03:55 PM by Nodima

  

          

None of the Omaha scenes take place here. I’ve never looked into it but I imagine that’s at least partially the inspiration for shooting in B&W.

I’m being kind of facetious and nitpicky because it is legitimately cool how they make the exteriors look like an Alexander Payne shot so often but when it comes to the mall it’s always weird how they’ve always done the bare minimum going all the way back to S1.

Not even making custom signage felt so out of character for them especially.

~~~~~~~~~
"This is the streets, and I am the trap." � Jay Bilas
http://www.popmatters.com/pm/archive/contributor/517
Hip Hop Handbook: http://tinyurl.com/ll4kzz

  

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stravinskian
Member since Feb 24th 2003
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Wed Jul-27-22 08:10 PM

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377. "Ohmygod ohmygod! Call 402-342-9288"
In response to Reply # 0


          


That's the number on poor little Nippy's posters.

  

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stravinskian
Member since Feb 24th 2003
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379. "Lol I guess word got out. It gives a busy signal now."
In response to Reply # 377


          


Thankfully somebody posted it to YouTube.

https://youtu.be/XCVzAOCfcSA

  

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Mynoriti
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381. "yea heard it on one of the pods. pretty cool"
In response to Reply # 377


  

          

it sounds so legit and sincere lol

  

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stravinskian
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Wed Aug-03-22 10:55 PM

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465. "Haha, or William Oakley and Associates: 505-247-2464"
In response to Reply # 377


          


Bill Oakley is the former prosecutor (Jimmy's buddy from the vending machines) who's now "switched sides" to defense law. I saw someone hypothesize that Jimmy might face trial back in Albuquerque, and Bill Oakley might be the only guy he can get to defend him. I'm not convinced, but maybe.

Anyway, his phone message isn't nearly as good as Gene Takavic's about Nippy. But it's still kinda fun to hear.


  

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stravinskian
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Wed Jul-27-22 08:49 PM

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378. "Whoa, and a possible big spoiler from Internet detective work:"
In response to Reply # 0


          


According to the Prestige TV podcast (yeah, that's also where I heard about Gene's phone number), supposedly some reddit sleuths tracked down the timetable of all the football references, and found that Gene and Jeffy's caper happened very nearly, possibly the same day, to when Walter White left New Hampshire to go back to Albuquerque in Breaking Bad. (Walt's schedule can be pinned down because he arrived on his birthday.)

And a lot of those scenes from Breaking Bad were shot in black and white, too.

So that might give credence to the theories already out there that Walt will stop in Omaha on his trip back to drop his money off with the Schwarzes. And maybe Gene'll even help figure out the scheme.

Or, it could all be a huge red herring. Similar internet theories had me convinced that Kim was gonna kill herself in episode 9. So the writers might be playing us like Saul Goodman.

  

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stravinskian
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Thu Jul-28-22 04:01 PM

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380. "Err, waitaminute..."
In response to Reply # 378


          

The thing about it being same day was what I thought I heard on that podcast. But maybe I misunderstood. According to some dude on Reddit, the football timeline puts the Jeffy caper a month AFTER Walt died. Supposedly Wait died in early September, 2010; the caper in the department store would have been in mid October, and the mysterious scheduled call to Francesca is in early November. (A flash-forward in, I think, season 4 of BCS showed Saul just before he called for his vacuum part. He told Francesca to expect a call to a public payphone at a certain time on a certain day. We still don't know what that call is gonna be about, or even whether it comes from Gene.)

So it's all pretty close together, time-wise, but this probably means Walt won't show up in Omaha unless they crank the timeline back by just a month and a half, which seems, baroque. (To borrow a word from Howard Hamlin and Chuck McGill.)


That said, Peter Gould implied in the insider podcast that the recast cabbie will be prominent in multiple episodes. So we're probably not done with Jeffy, Gene, or hopefully Marion.

  

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KnowOne
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Fri Jul-29-22 10:26 AM

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383. "next ep is titled "Breaking Bad""
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

LETS GOOOOOO!!!!!

_________________________________________
"Too weird to live.... too rare to die..."

IG: KnowOne215 | PS+ ID: KnowOne215

  

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stravinskian
Member since Feb 24th 2003
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Mon Aug-01-22 08:43 AM

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384. "Yup. There's a chance that they might be fucking with us again, though."
In response to Reply # 383


          

The official teaser text for 'Nippy' said something like "A new player enters the game." After the jump to Saul Goodman at the end of the previous episode, just about everybody was sure this referred to the first appearance of Walt. But of course it turned out to be Jeffy.

This week it says something like "the partners try to raise their operation to the next level." It's easy to take this to mean Walt and Jesse, but it could just as well mean Jeffy and his friend. They could be the ones that break bad this time.

Given that this is a show about conman Jimmy McGill, it would make sense that they'd have some fun misleading us along the way.

That said, since the episode that introduced Saul in BB was called 'Better Call Saul,' it'd take some chutzpah to leave Walt and Jesse out entirely. On the other hand, though, next week's episode, #12 (apparently called 'Waterworks'), was written and directed by Vince Gilligan. So maybe it'd make sense for most of the Walt & Jesse stuff to happen there.

At any rate, it looks like the remaining episodes are mostly set in Omaha. The press image for today's episode was Gene, with moustache and parka. According to the insider podcast, there was a meeting with all of the last four directors about how to shoot consistently in black and white. Also, they said Carol Burnett spent a significant amount of time in Albuquerque, implying that Marion features in a bunch of episodes.

My bet is that tonight's episode will almost all be in the Gene Takavic era. I think either Walt or Jesse will show up very briefly right at the end. A flashback if Walt's involved. Or maybe some kind of communication from Alaska if it's Jesse.

  

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stravinskian
Member since Feb 24th 2003
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Mon Aug-01-22 10:22 PM

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385. "Wooooow."
In response to Reply # 0


          

Great episode. Hopefully won't be as divisive as the last one, and might even bring some people around to the story of Gene and Jeff and Theotherguy.

My initial thoughts:

* Titusville Florida?! Who had that in the pool? I was hoping she'd at least go back to the law, wherever she ended up. And I guess the hopes of a happy reunion are dashed, unless it happens when Jimmy is in prison, or even he gets out in 20 years.

There was an online Vanity Fair thing where Bob and Rhea talked about fan theories. Bob made a cryptic comment about Kim's ponytail not being much longer for this world. I wondered if that means she gets short hair in the future. But judging from the looks of that phone call, we might not see her again.

* If Francesca was my landlord, I'd take better care of my place. Or maybe she's just the super. I guess if she had any significant visible assets they likely would have been seized.

* The Crystal Ship scene was great. I thought Jesse was pretty convincing. The ski mask on the forehead helped.

* Great to see Mike again, and in the slightly more crabby state he was in in those years. I was hoping he'd show up with the file for James Kilkelly. But the rest of the backstory they gave us was good too.

* Sad to see Marion starting to become (understandably) suspicious of Gene. I just saw someone hypothesize online that Marion might see the "American Greed" segments on YouTube and turn him in from that. Seems a little easy, plot-wise, but maybe. It certainly seems more likely now that Marion turns him in than for her to have been a secret criminal all along, which was another hypothesis going around.

* That shot of the grave in the desert fading into Gene in his boring bed was a little on-the-nose, even for me.

  

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stravinskian
Member since Feb 24th 2003
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Tue Aug-02-22 07:34 AM

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391. "After a night to chew: Man, this was a dark story. "
In response to Reply # 385


          

I was never one of those people who thought that Walt was a "good guy" or that he deserved a truly happy ending, but I liked it when he was able to outsmart everybody and live on his own terms. So the story in Felina was as much a satisfying and fulfilling close as Walt could have had.

But unless some major and very unexpected stuff happens very soon, it looks like Jimmy has become just as mean and soulless a human being as we kinda knew him to be in Breaking Bad. Like a lot of people, I became convinced in the early years of Better Call Saul that Jimmy was deep down a decent human being, and that he deserved to get past this and finish with a very rare happy ending.

This episode reminded me that, even though we might understand his motivations more than we used to, Jimmy doesn't deserve to go off into the sunset with Kim any more than Walt deserved to live happily ever after as a former meth cook.

When we first met Saul in Breaking Bad, he had way less of a moral compass than Jesse or Walt ("Why not just have someone shiv Badger in the chow line??"). With the flashback scene with Mike, they skillfully reminded us that Saul gleefully played puppetmaster and drove Walt to his deepest depths. If Walt doesn't deserve to find redemption, neither does Saul.

Last week's caper was so quaintly lighthearted by comparison to today. It was basically a victimless crime, and Gene masterminded it to get through the fact that Jeff was threatening him.

This week, that phone call with (presumably*) Kim seems to have broken him and turned him into a Heisenberg, just without the Chemistry skills.

(* A couple of reviews have been oddly uncertain about whether he really talked to Kim. I guess there's an outside possibility that he could have been arguing with someone at the sprinkler company, telling him that Kim left Florida and nobody knows where she went. But that possibility seems to miss the main point: OF COURSE Kim would never take Jimmy back after all this. If she couldn't ultimately live with a friend of the cartel, she will never be able to make peace with the mastermind of Heisenberg's drug empire. I feel silly even having thought of that, let alone imagining it for multiple seasons as the "obvious" end of the story.)

Gene got his hopes up for the happy ending we'd all wanted when he heard that Kim cared whether he was alive. But now that he understands once again that they're over, he has nothing to live for other than using the grift to assert his power over the world. All he has left in life is the little bit of control he feels when the other guy at the bar thinks he has the upper hand, but that other guy is doomed to find out he never did.

Now Gene's about causing havoc, because it's all he has left. The Saul Goodman of the Breaking Bad years was a coping mechanism, and now it's back and it's killed Gene just like it killed Jimmy. And both times it was because he realized he didn't deserve to be with the woman he loves, and who honestly loves him back ("but so what!").

If we were to draw analogies of these episodes with the "multiple endings" of Breaking Bad: last week was like Felina, Jimmy gets one last moment to live on his own terms and to feel like some small part of it was good for him; this week was the "Granite State" ending, Jimmy is faced with the stark picture of how small his life is now that he's inevitably destroyed everything. The reference to Ozymandias (the poem, not the episode), where he talked about being buried in sand for a thousand years, was well placed.

The long, drawn-out, multifaceted ending of Breaking Bad really helped the viewers to put Walt's story into perspective. And I think they're succeeding just as well this time around. But it's even sadder to watch, because we became such good friends with the Jimmy that Saul washed away.

  

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Cold Truth
Member since Jan 28th 2004
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Mon Aug-01-22 11:39 PM

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386. "The black and white shit worked for those short glimpses"
In response to Reply # 0
Tue Aug-02-22 12:07 AM by Cold Truth

  

          

They’re on some bullshit with this. This is a tryhard decision that does!’t add a single thing to the show.

I don’t even want to bother with this shit now

Who the fuck is this black and white bullshit for, anyways?

I don’t care about whatever metaphor subtext it’s trying to convey
Both series have been great about shit like that gimmicky shit like this
I don’t care if the Gene shorts were also in black and white either

The ep is good so far but this bullshit aesthetic shift can suck a thousand diseased dicks

And scratch that
This ep isn’t fine
I’m bored to death of this Scheme Gene bullshit
They built this shit to an exciting crescendo, then shifted into this slow motion fuckery
We already know he’s a mastermind con man

I like the echoes of the theme that played when Mike was taking the Kettleman’s money
I liked seeing Francesca

And I liked it when we finally got to *that* scene

But they really went with some questionable choices her

  

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Cold Truth
Member since Jan 28th 2004
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Tue Aug-02-22 12:18 AM

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"Yeah, thatscene was boring. That was some DVD extras bullshit"


  

          

I said I like that we finally got to *that* scene

I spoke to soon
The downside of reacting in real time I guess

this is boring the fuck out of me
All this shit feels like DVD extras
None of this feels anywhere close to the climax of a GOAT tier show

They really went with some questionable choices here

I get it Nimmy/Saul/Gene has mad skills, yo
We don’t need so much of the story around it to drag so much
And again, this aesthetic shift feels more and more superficial, try hard as it goes on

At this point I’m only watching this shit because I need closure

  

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DJR
Member since Jan 01st 2005
18638 posts
Tue Aug-02-22 07:27 AM

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390. "I loved “thatscene”"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

Realized at some point that I was smiling through the whole thing.

Found this week’s scamming scenes way more engaging than last week’s - which I wasn’t into at the time.

Also, after 9 long years it is such a relief to finally have some closure on Huell’s status.

  

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stravinskian
Member since Feb 24th 2003
12698 posts
Tue Aug-02-22 07:40 AM

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392. "Lol, she shoulda said something about how long Huell was locked in there..."
In response to Reply # 390


          


I'd forgotten about that meme about him still being locked in the house, but the redditors helpfully reminded me.

Poor Huell. I'm glad he at least came through it okay.

  

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Nodima
Member since Jul 30th 2008
15302 posts
Tue Aug-02-22 08:08 AM

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394. "This is a rare moment I'm glad I had a hint of what's coming"
In response to Reply # 0
Tue Aug-02-22 08:09 AM by Nodima

  

          

But also, it's indulging in what I always, always liked most about this world. People doing and talking about oddly specific things while also fully aware that the stakes are not low. But these people can never let their personal high stakes get in the way of this weird adventure they're on.


And they're still expertly exploring Saul's character. He wants to matter, and despite losing everything can't let go of the things that made him feel like he mattered - scams, eventually seeing a guy who truly had nothing to lose put it all on the table - and so he's got to deal with all that baggage of being a reformed con artist turned legal con artist turned accessory (and only accessory) to a man who really just said fuck it and pushed all his chips in.


I'd accept that the show is clearing some phlegm, but I think it's mucus they really, really care about. I was getting saucy when we were still in the main Saul timeline for, it seems, the same reasons you are now. Can't remember if you were then, too. But even letting go of this being the mode I enjoy this universe being in most.


Slippin' Jimmy is now actually slippin', he doesn't have the resume to tilt the understudies the way he's trying to - turns out, Jimmy needs to let Saul convince Gene he's capable of being Walter to prove the same ego-driven ideal he's been chasing his whole life - and I don't think it's an accident that this last alter ego looks like Chuck while daydreaming about Walter. But he's also, at his core, a small time crook that made an incredible amount out of shockingly little. Hell, you could start late season Mad Men theories with "I don't think" but it seems like this, like season 5 of Breaking Bad, is excited to be obvious. You don't get to just pretend to be bad, not forever.


~~~~~~~~~
"This is the streets, and I am the trap." � Jay Bilas
http://www.popmatters.com/pm/archive/contributor/517
Hip Hop Handbook: http://tinyurl.com/ll4kzz

  

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Cold Truth
Member since Jan 28th 2004
44843 posts
Tue Aug-02-22 12:18 AM

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387. "This fucking show is not good for my mental health😂"
In response to Reply # 386
Tue Aug-02-22 12:33 AM by Cold Truth

  

          

I’ll say this though

It’s still think it’s a fucking mess at this point

But they’ve laced some gems

“You think a guy with cancer can’t be an asshole? I speak from experience”

I hate this fucking show. My stomach is in knotts.
See that? I can’t even spell “knots” right.

And these fucking pricks keep jumping back and forth between aesthetics
Jesus H fucking Christ being a diehard can suck some times

  

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thegodcam
Member since Oct 22nd 2004
41497 posts
Tue Aug-02-22 03:49 AM

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388. "ur replies got me roflmao"
In response to Reply # 387


  

          

its just tv man... it'll be ok... lol

*******************************************************
i will not let finite disappointment undermine infinite hope
- Cory Booker

Football is a simple game; 22 men chase a ball for 90 minutes, and at the end the Germans always win
- Gary Lineker

  

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Cold Truth
Member since Jan 28th 2004
44843 posts
Tue Aug-02-22 04:34 AM

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389. "No shit."
In response to Reply # 388


  

          

>its just tv man... it'll be ok... lol

Man I’m just having fun with a direction I don’t particularly like
This is just an outsized, animated expression
It’s “yeah, not feeling this” with the volume turned up

  

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Reeq
Member since Mar 11th 2013
16347 posts
Tue Aug-02-22 10:42 AM

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404. "i thought the black and white scenes were an intentional device"
In response to Reply # 386


          

to make it clear it was taking place in genes world. and that world feels a lot different than the previous one(s).

like not just the character changed but the whole environment/stage/period did.

at least thats what it felt like whenever the black and white popped up. so if that was the purpose then it was effective on me.

and maybe thats still its purpose.

because we still have some asynchronous story telling going on so maybe they still want different feels for each arc.

but who knows lol.

  

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Brew
Member since Nov 23rd 2002
24419 posts
Tue Aug-02-22 11:01 AM

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406. "Agreed. And it doesn't bother me at all."
In response to Reply # 404


          

>to make it clear it was taking place in genes world. and
>that world feels a lot different than the previous one(s).
>
>like not just the character changed but the whole
>environment/stage/period did.
>
>at least thats what it felt like whenever the black and white
>popped up. so if that was the purpose then it was effective
>on me.
>
>and maybe thats still its purpose.
>
>because we still have some asynchronous story telling going on
>so maybe they still want different feels for each arc.
>
>but who knows lol.

----------------------------------------

"Fuck aliens." © WarriorPoet415

  

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Mynoriti
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Tue Aug-02-22 06:01 PM

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443. "ehh, 'Gene' in B&W is a pretty established thing"
In response to Reply # 386


  

          

I'm not sure why it matters if it's just been cold opens (I think the one from last season was 15-20m). it's been a great device to make the timeline crystal clear.

but I've been wanting a full Gene episode (or even a movie or min-series) for a few years now, and I always just assumed it would be in black and white.
I'm not sure why anyone would expect it to change. i think i'd have been pretty bummed if it did

  

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Cold Truth
Member since Jan 28th 2004
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Wed Aug-03-22 01:14 AM

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453. "It works for me in one format, just not the other🤷🏻‍♂️"
In response to Reply # 443
Wed Aug-03-22 01:29 AM by Cold Truth

  

          

>I'm not sure why it matters if it's just been cold opens (I
>think the one from last season was 15-20m). it's been a great
>device to make the timeline crystal clear.

Gene has such a distinctive appearance that it’s not really necessary.
That mustache and glasses combo don’t really allow for confusion.

>but I've been wanting a full Gene episode (or even a movie or
>min-series) for a few years now, and I always just assumed it
>would be in black and white.

>I'm not sure why anyone would expect it to change.

Because occasional shorts and full episodes are different things.

I figured that once we reached the Gene part of the story full time, we’d get those eps in color. It was clearly wrong, but I don’t that’s an unreasonable assumption.

Moreover, the shorts where he’s living as Gene, managing that Cinnabon store, putting that in gray worked for me. To me, it drove home that shift to a more mundane existence, which much be hell for a man of his particular genius. That’s what life is like for him, stripped of all his sizzle, his color. This is what blending in is to a guy whose every motivation is to stand out.

So, narratively, him getting back to his old ways warranted a shift back to that color.

That would have given those grayscale shorts much more weight and meaning.
But that’s just me. I don’t need something to placate my personal artistic whims to enjoy it.
I’ve loved the creative direction of BCS from jump, so it sucks that I don’t like these last two eps.

Trust. I’d much rather enjoy this as much as the rest of you.

Either way, what we got clearly works for everyone else. Just not for me🤷🏻‍♂️

  

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Numba_33
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Tue Aug-02-22 08:05 AM

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393. "Curious about one minor detail from last night:"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

Was having the dog be part of all those break-ins a good idea or was that done to make that partner look dim as that was obviously a poor idea?

There had to be a reason the writers chose to include the dog as that isn't just a random piece to include to the story, plus I had to imagine on the showrunners side of things there have to be wranglers as such to have the dog on set. From a story telling standpoint, I'm surprised Jimmy/Saul/Gene/I-forgot-the-other-alias-that-was-used-for-last-night's-ruse allowed the dog to be in all those houses.

Overall, I'm pretty disappointed by these stretch of episodes and there were multiple reasons I didn't like last night's episode (the dog wasn't one of them), but I don't want to dampen the mood too much by crapping on the show, so I thought I'd post the above question mainly to divert from the overall letdown I have for this last season.

"Sean sparks like John Starks, nah, Sean ball like John Wall" - Rest In Power Forever Sean Price.

  

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mista k5
Member since Feb 01st 2006
16414 posts
Tue Aug-02-22 09:35 AM

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395. "I think Victor was the alias"
In response to Reply # 393


  

          

at least with the first dude.

Regarding the dog, I don't know. I was wondering the same. I was thinking maybe it was incase the guy would wake. The dog would probably bark and that would be the guys cue to get out or hide.

  

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stravinskian
Member since Feb 24th 2003
12698 posts
Tue Aug-02-22 09:47 AM

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396. ""Viktor with a k" was how he described his name to Ken Wins, way back."
In response to Reply # 395
Tue Aug-02-22 09:49 AM by stravinskian

          

And Ken called him "Viktor with a k" for the rest of the grift, so everyone seems to call him that now.

My interpretation of the dog was that he was there to watch the front door and bark in case anyone unexpected comes home, so that Buddy can make a run from the back door.

The more important significance of the dog, as far as the structure of the episode goes, is that Marion (Carol Burnett) saw Gene being nasty with that dog and throwing him in the cab of the truck when the three guys met to debrief in Jeff's garage. This is when she knows for sure that Gene is not the same guy who seemed so concerned about sweet little nippy. So she's suspicious of Gene now, right after telling him that he's a "good influence" on Jeffy. So she's a loose end now that might bring everything down.

  

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Numba_33
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Tue Aug-02-22 09:53 AM

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400. "RE: I think Victor was the alias"
In response to Reply # 395


  

          

>at least with the first dude.

Thanks for the answer.

>Regarding the dog, I don't know. I was wondering the same. I
>was thinking maybe it was incase the guy would wake. The dog
>would probably bark and that would be the guys cue to get out
>or hide.

Couldn't barking make matters worse? As shown with the Carol Burnett scene towards the end of the episode, the dog barking was what made her look towards the garage. If memory serves me right, she even had on headphones while she was looking at the Youtube videos, but I could be wrong about that bit of detail. My main point is that barking could attract added attention to the house, especially neighbors.

"Sean sparks like John Starks, nah, Sean ball like John Wall" - Rest In Power Forever Sean Price.

  

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Brew
Member since Nov 23rd 2002
24419 posts
Tue Aug-02-22 11:01 AM

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405. "That was my thinking too."
In response to Reply # 395


          

>Regarding the dog, I don't know. I was wondering the same. I
>was thinking maybe it was incase the guy would wake. The dog
>would probably bark and that would be the guys cue to get out
>or hide.

----------------------------------------

"Fuck aliens." © WarriorPoet415

  

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Nopayne
Member since Jan 03rd 2003
52628 posts
Tue Aug-02-22 09:50 AM

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398. "RE: Curious about one minor detail from last night:"
In response to Reply # 393


  

          

I think that guy would look pretty suspicious walking around these neighborhoods late at night alone. If he brings the dog, it looks like he's taking it out for a walk which would be more understandable.

---
Love,
Nopayne

  

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Brew
Member since Nov 23rd 2002
24419 posts
Tue Aug-02-22 11:03 AM

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407. "Oh true. That prolly makes more sense."
In response to Reply # 398


          

>I think that guy would look pretty suspicious walking around
>these neighborhoods late at night alone. If he brings the
>dog, it looks like he's taking it out for a walk which would
>be more understandable.

----------------------------------------

"Fuck aliens." © WarriorPoet415

  

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Mynoriti
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Tue Aug-02-22 03:36 PM

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435. "felt like it was just a character detail more than anything else"
In response to Reply # 393


  

          

it definitely worked for someone who would be out at night, but i just took it as he takes his dog everywhere.

also that he was kind of a soft hearted guy, like his reaction to the cancer thing.

  

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mista k5
Member since Feb 01st 2006
16414 posts
Tue Aug-02-22 09:48 AM

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397. "I enjoyed it"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

I'm somewhat conflicted. With the show wrapping up it is frustrating to spend so much time on these schemes but I'm guessing there is a point to it that will payoff.

They ended the episode making us think he got caught. I wonder if he finds a way to talk himself out of that if the cops really do show up.

As far as just enjoying the episode I thought it was fun. Kind of like early Fargo for the Gene scenes. The B&W did get tedious but not enough to take me out of it. It was cool to see "the comic book store owner" in this one.

I was wondering if the intro was all they would give us of Jesse and Walt. People would be pissed lol What we did get was okay. I didn't expect much and I don't know what else they could had done that would had made sense. Mike was cool to see.

Overall I am wishing we spent more time going from Kim leaving to Jimmy really becoming Saul. I don't know what to expect on these last two episodes. I don't know what I want to see.

  

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Brew
Member since Nov 23rd 2002
24419 posts
Tue Aug-02-22 11:06 AM

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409. "This is exactly it."
In response to Reply # 397


          

>I'm somewhat conflicted. With the show wrapping up it is
>frustrating to spend so much time on these schemes but I'm
>guessing there is a point to it that will payoff.

The show has always been about intricacy of schemes and long, drawn out, tedious scenes bearing everything out to get to the endpoint. This literally started in episode 1. That's why I ask what everyone was expecting, I'm genuinely curious.

I know there were a lot of detours in the past season or 2 into the cartel/drug world but the show was never really about that. That was always just a device to move from Jimmy to Saul. That part is now resolved. So outside of the Jimmy/Kim thing (regarding which I still think there's more to come), what else could you (the royal "you," not you specifically) be looking for ??

I find that final seasons rarely satisfy anyone lol. Meanwhile I'm always just happy to be spending one last ride with a great show.

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mista k5
Member since Feb 01st 2006
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Tue Aug-02-22 11:33 AM

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416. "I loved last week"
In response to Reply # 409


  

          

We got to see Jimmy once again on one last scheme where he comes out on top. Nice way to end that. Now he comes back to it? Why? Why is this one guy so worth it to risk it? I feel like the Howard scheme all over again. Which I guess maybe they're hitting us over the head with it. Jimmy is a bad guy, he has a problem, he can't help himself.

He needs that feeling more than the money or security.

I'm guessing he's doing fine money wise right? I know it had to be a hit for him that the feds found everything but was he needing that money? Is that why he went back to these schemes or was it really the conversation with Kim (if he even spoked with her)?

So I did enjoy the one last ride with Jimmy, last week. This week has me anxious again lol I don't want get my hopes up that we do have a Kim/Jimmy interaction in these last 2 episodes but that could be cool.

If this next one is called water works then there's going to be some tragic stuff happening right?

I think more than Kim and Jimmy interacting I would like to see how Kim is living now. I don't have much sympathy for Jimmy left but there is still some for Kim.

  

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Brew
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418. "I think it's both."
In response to Reply # 416


          

>I'm guessing he's doing fine money wise right? I know it had
>to be a hit for him that the feds found everything but was he
>needing that money? Is that why he went back to these schemes
>or was it really the conversation with Kim (if he even spoked
>with her)?

I think the purpose of the discussion with Francesca was to highlight that he's *not* doing fine ...

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mrhood75
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Tue Aug-02-22 12:35 PM

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420. "I think it's definitely more the first than the second"
In response to Reply # 416


  

          

The call with Franchessa established that the feds got everything, and the call to Florida established a Jimmy/Kim reunion isn't happening. The Omaha scene at the beginning of season 5 established he still have something socked away (he pulls out some diamonds), but he just doesn't want to live the rest of his life as Cinnabon manager with two pairs of khakis, max.

I'm only sort of interested in what happened to Kim. It doesn't sound like she's thrived (working at a pool supply store in Florida is hardly living the dream). I said it earlier in the thread, but I'll say it again: It'd be a "cheat" if she started thriving after leaving Jimmy, because that would imply that Jimmy was always the problem, and this show has worked hard to establish that neither one were good people.

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Brew
Member since Nov 23rd 2002
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399. "Man y'all are crazy lol. What were you expecting ?"
In response to Reply # 0


          

Serious question. Like what kind of storylines and/or tone would have made you all happy with this final season ?

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stravinskian
Member since Feb 24th 2003
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Tue Aug-02-22 09:57 AM

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401. "I was totally underwhelmed by the end of Breaking Bad at first."
In response to Reply # 399
Tue Aug-02-22 10:06 AM by stravinskian

          

It wasn't until long after I watched those episodes that I saw how skillfully they all went together. I'm sensing that this is going the same way. For now the writers are gleefully and effectively misdirecting us all (as they should in a show about Jimmy McGill), and it's making a lot of people uneasy. I think a lot of people will come around on it with time.

Also, people have a tendency to think black and white is pretentious. And maybe, I get that, even if I don't agree. It has an air of self-importance, even if I think the importance is earned. But I think it served a functional purpose in this episode, helping us to know what's past and what's present. I would have had no idea what era Francesca was in until late in her scene if that had been in color.

  

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Cold Truth
Member since Jan 28th 2004
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Tue Aug-02-22 10:23 AM

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402. "I can still enjoy something I didn’t expect"
In response to Reply # 399
Tue Aug-02-22 10:25 AM by Cold Truth

  

          

They built the Jimmy arc to an amazing crescendo

Following that with two eps mostly consisting of showing us Gene he can still run circles of game, and in a generally slow-paced fashion, and in black and white, is exceptionally underwhelming. It all feels like an extensive suite of dvd extras.

The Breaking Bad stuff was of no real consequence. Just, oh, cool.

It’s just not a very exciting or engaging story.

For me, it comes across like bonus material.

In terms of expectation, it’s not about that. I just want to enjoy what I get, and I don’t enjoy this. I also don’t enjoy all of Gene’s story in black and white. It feels like a forced aesthetic that was interesting when it was giving us small glimpses into his post-BB life.

Not so much for full episodes of slow-paced scams.

And, frankly, my own reaction is just turned up. There’s a catharsis in venting my disdain for the end of a show that I absolutely love, that is not at all delivering an ending I enjoy,

  

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DJR
Member since Jan 01st 2005
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Tue Aug-02-22 05:41 PM

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442. "Why should the Breaking Bad stuff be any more than that?"
In response to Reply # 402


  

          

>They built the Jimmy arc to an amazing crescendo
>
>Following that with two eps mostly consisting of showing us
>Gene he can still run circles of game, and in a generally
>slow-paced fashion, and in black and white, is exceptionally
>underwhelming. It all feels like an extensive suite of dvd
>extras.
>
>The Breaking Bad stuff was of no real consequence. Just, oh,
>cool.

>It’s just not a very exciting or engaging story.
>
>For me, it comes across like bonus material.

They already told that story - meticulously. They CAN’T add anything big there. They just filled in some holes(Mike telling Saul to avoid Walt and Jesse asking who Lalo is being the main things) and gave us Walt and Jesse right in their element one more time. I loved it.


>In terms of expectation, it’s not about that. I just want to
>enjoy what I get, and I don’t enjoy this. I also don’t
>enjoy all of Gene’s story in black and white. It feels like
>a forced aesthetic that was interesting when it was giving us
>small glimpses into his post-BB life.
>
>Not so much for full episodes of slow-paced scams.
>

The black and white bothered me last week. This week it did not. Not sure why. Maybe because they were going back and forth between flash backs and present times so much, and it made it instantly obvious to what time period they were in.

  

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Cold Truth
Member since Jan 28th 2004
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451. "RE: Why should the Breaking Bad stuff be any more than that?"
In response to Reply # 442


  

          

>They already told that story - meticulously. They CAN’T
>add anything big there.

I didn’t say they needed to. I’m just saying it didn’t really add anything .

But I’m talking about everything post-Jimmy so far. The Gene story has been a complete bore so far. Maybe it wraps up in an interesting way, but a few brief gems aside, the Gene journey has been pretty boring.

>They just filled in some holes(Mike
>telling Saul to avoid Walt and Jesse asking who Lalo is being
>the main things) and gave us Walt and Jesse right in their
>element one more time. I loved it.

Cool. I wouldn’t call any of that “holes” though. Mike was never a fan of Walt, and seeing Jesse ask about Lalo is just us watching him ask about something we already know.

This would have made fun bonus content for me. It’s not particularly engaging “these are the last episodes” material, and that’s not saying they should have made i
The BB portion more than it was. It’s just saying that what was, wasn’t all that interesting to me.

>The black and white bothered me last week. This week it did
>not. Not sure why. Maybe because they were going back and
>forth between flash backs and present times so much, and it
>made it instantly obvious to what time period they were in.

Gene has a very particular look. Any shift to Gene is immediately obvious.

But it is what it is. The black and white doesn’t really add anything, and it’s just kind of gimmicky to me.

  

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Reeq
Member since Mar 11th 2013
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Tue Aug-02-22 10:31 AM

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403. "i honestly dont know what to expect at this point."
In response to Reply # 399


          

like im not even sure what the end is *supposed* to be.

i felt like the traditional end would have prolly been the resolution to the lalo conflict and the split with kim.

but now we are past that and we got 3 different storylines for the same character...still expanding on his development into who we know him to become in bb...while already firmly in bb territory...and now predominantly in the gene timeline. at the same time lol.

it seems kinda rudderless right now. but maybe there isnt supposed to be some concrete finish line or place of closure.

its a weird place for a show to be lol.

  

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Mafamaticks
Member since Jan 12th 2004
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Tue Aug-02-22 11:09 AM

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411. "That's what I'm saying"
In response to Reply # 399


  

          

We already wrapped up how he became Saul.

We know what happens to him during Breaking Bad

Now we're getting what happens to him after Breaking Bad.

I think it's a good way to wrap this series up. I've been on edge these last few eps because I don't want him to go to jail and it looks like that's where it's heading. That speech he gave about getting back in the game was for him just as much as it was for the taxi driver.

  

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Brew
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412. "^ right."
In response to Reply # 411


          

>We already wrapped up how he became Saul.
>
>We know what happens to him during Breaking Bad
>
>Now we're getting what happens to him after Breaking Bad.
>
>I think it's a good way to wrap this series up. I've been on
>edge these last few eps because I don't want him to go to jail
>and it looks like that's where it's heading. That speech he
>gave about getting back in the game was for him just as much
>as it was for the taxi driver.

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stravinskian
Member since Feb 24th 2003
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Tue Aug-02-22 11:21 AM

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415. "I think there's a chance Gene wants to get caught."
In response to Reply # 411


          


Jeff and Buddy were right, even if they still wanted to rob the cancer patient, it's reckless to do it hours later, with a broken window. Slippin Jimmy would know better.

In fact we saw just a few episodes ago that Jimmy knows better, when he saw Judge Casamiro's cast and told Kim "we'll cut our losses here and live to fight another day." Gene insisting on going back to the house is like Kim insisting "it happens today!" Even if it works out, it might be the last step before disaster.

  

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Brew
Member since Nov 23rd 2002
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419. "Agreed."
In response to Reply # 415


          

>RE: I think there's a chance Gene wants to get caught.

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DJR
Member since Jan 01st 2005
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Tue Aug-02-22 11:53 AM

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417. "Yeah, this "
In response to Reply # 411


  

          

  

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mrhood75
Member since Dec 06th 2004
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Tue Aug-02-22 12:39 PM

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421. "I've been fine with this season and the stories. Only thing I'll say..."
In response to Reply # 399


  

          

...is that splitting it into two-parts hasn't served the narrative well. However, they didn't plan on Odenkirk having a heart attack, so that was pretty much unavoidable.

In general, ending the series on Jimmy's insatiable need for action, to the point that it makes him do beyond reckless shit, works.

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Numba_33
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Tue Aug-02-22 11:05 AM

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408. "A compromise of sorts for the last season(s) "
In response to Reply # 0
Tue Aug-02-22 11:07 AM by Numba_33

  

          

Instead artificially breaking this last season in two, I wonder why the show runners didn't just end this season with Howard getting killed and then start the next season with the Gene stuff aka the flash forward since that in a sense feels like more of a cleaner delineation storytelling wise. I dislike this season too much to want to listen to any podcasts, but was this discussed on official podcasts for the show? My apologies if this is the case.

**edit**

Was the this season already broken in two before Odenkirk had his heart attack?

"Sean sparks like John Starks, nah, Sean ball like John Wall" - Rest In Power Forever Sean Price.

  

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Brew
Member since Nov 23rd 2002
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410. "IMO clean is boring."
In response to Reply # 408


          

>Instead artificially breaking this last season in two, I
>wonder why the show runners didn't just end this season with
>Howard getting killed and then start the next season with the
>Gene stuff aka the flash forward since that in a sense feels
>like more of a cleaner delineation storytelling wise.

They could've just had Jimmy and Kim reunite in Nebraska like everyone has been expecting since season 1 or whenever she disclosed where she was originally from. But that would've been boring.

I'm happy to have no idea where this is going.

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Numba_33
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Tue Aug-02-22 11:15 AM

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413. "Just so I'm clear"
In response to Reply # 410


  

          

it meant clean in the sense that this last season could deal with one timeline at a time and not deal with the 'present' day Saul stuff and the flash forward stuff with Gene. Since this last season was going to be broken into two parts, just end the first half with Howard getting killed and start a completely new season solely focused on the flash forward storylines with Gene.

Jimmy and Kim reuniting or not it a whole other matter altogether.

"Sean sparks like John Starks, nah, Sean ball like John Wall" - Rest In Power Forever Sean Price.

  

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Brew
Member since Nov 23rd 2002
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Tue Aug-02-22 11:19 AM

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414. "Ahh got it. Misunderstood you."
In response to Reply # 413


          

>it meant clean in the sense that this last season could deal
>with one timeline at a time and not deal with the 'present'
>day Saul stuff and the flash forward stuff with Gene. Since
>this last season was going to be broken into two parts, just
>end the first half with Howard getting killed and start a
>completely new season solely focused on the flash forward
>storylines with Gene.
>
>Jimmy and Kim reuniting or not it a whole other matter
>altogether.

I still don't mind the jumping around but I get your point now.

IMO the jumping around is an attempt to sort of solidify that all 3 versions of this person are not only informed by eachother, but the same in a lot of ways. In other words even if Jimmy seemed somewhat sympathetic in a lot of ways, he was always heading down this road. IMO it's clever how they spliced the 3 together in this episode.

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mrhood75
Member since Dec 06th 2004
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Tue Aug-02-22 12:43 PM

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422. "From what I understand, splitting the season was not in the original..."
In response to Reply # 408


  

          

...plans. Odenkirk had the heart attack while they were filming the scene when Lalo comes by their apartment and kills Howard.

Only "benefit" that the show gets by splitting the season in two is cracks at two different Emmy cycles.

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mrhood75
Member since Dec 06th 2004
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Tue Aug-02-22 12:46 PM

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423. "Ah, if only Saul had listened to Mike"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

That scene really made me think how Saul really did put so much of Breaking Bad into motion.

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Brew
Member since Nov 23rd 2002
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Tue Aug-02-22 01:46 PM

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424. "How did Genejimmysaul get in touch with Francesca for that call ?"
In response to Reply # 0


          

I need to watch again, must've missed how he communicated with her to go to that payphone.

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stravinskian
Member since Feb 24th 2003
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Tue Aug-02-22 02:18 PM

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425. "Way back in season 4 there was a flashforward to the day Saul gets disap..."
In response to Reply # 424


          


You might vaguely remember it. It was in the Breaking-Bad timeframe (so it was shot in color). Francesca was busily shredding documents ("spoliating", as I now know it's called thanks to season 1), and Saul was sawing through the drywall behind his desk (literally cutting a hole through the center of the constitution!) to retrieve the very special shoebox that he keeps going back to this season (with photos, Marco's ring, a pouchful of diamonds, ...).

After he gets the shoebox out of the wall Francesca finishes with the shredding and gets ready to leave. Saul tells her to go to a specific payphone at 3pm on a specific day and wait for it to ring. She said she'll do it but if he's one minute late she'll leave. (That's why she was making faces when her clock reached 3:01.)

And then she leaves, and then Saul calls for his Hoover max-extract air filter.

  

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Brew
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Tue Aug-02-22 02:24 PM

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426. "Oh yea !! I do remember now - thanks"
In response to Reply # 425
Tue Aug-02-22 02:27 PM by Brew

          

I guess my one remaining question, then, would be: how much time elapsed between that phone call, and when Gene reverts back to his old ways with the scheme with Jeffy and Buddy ? Watching last nite I was under the impression that it was kinda immediate - that the phone call was the impetus for the reversion back to his old ways - but it may have been longer ?


>You might vaguely remember it. It was in the Breaking-Bad
>timeframe (so it was shot in color). Francesca was busily
>shredding documents ("spoliating", as I now know it's called
>thanks to season 1), and Saul was sawing through the drywall
>behind his desk (literally cutting a hole through the center
>of the constitution!) to retrieve the very special shoebox
>that he keeps going back to this season (with photos, Marco's
>ring, a pouchful of diamonds, ...).
>
>After he gets the shoebox out of the wall Francesca finishes
>with the shredding and gets ready to leave. Saul tells her to
>go to a specific payphone at 3pm on a specific day and wait
>for it to ring. She said she'll do it but if he's one minute
>late she'll leave. (That's why she was making faces when her
>clock reached 3:01.)
>
>And then she leaves, and then Saul calls for his Hoover
>max-extract air filter.

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stravinskian
Member since Feb 24th 2003
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Tue Aug-02-22 02:38 PM

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427. "I guess we don't know, but I also assume it was pretty immediate."
In response to Reply # 426


          


Like, he was probably back at Marion's house the day after that call with Kim, if not the same day.

It's all about Kim. The Saul of the Breaking Bad era and the Gene of this episode are both ways to feel like he has control of *something* when the one thing he wants, he can't control.

  

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Brew
Member since Nov 23rd 2002
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Tue Aug-02-22 02:43 PM

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428. "Word yea. And if it's that immediate, that means ..."
In response to Reply # 427


          

That very, very, very little time lapsed between the end of BB and all the stuff that's happened in the Gene-verse ? Which I guess makes sense right .. all we've had of the Gene-verse up to this season have been very brief flashbacks.


>Like, he was probably back at Marion's house the day after
>that call with Kim, if not the same day.
>
>It's all about Kim. The Saul of the Breaking Bad era and the
>Gene of this episode are both ways to feel like he has control
>of *something* when the one thing he wants, he can't control.

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Brew
Member since Nov 23rd 2002
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Tue Aug-02-22 03:08 PM

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429. "Two months, in fact. Haha."
In response to Reply # 428


          

https://www.rollingstone.com/tv-movies/tv-movie-recaps/better-call-saul-recap-breaking-bad-episode-611-1388970/

"Then we are back in the Gene timeline, but in Albuquerque, catching up with a miserable Francesca, who now has to pay the bills managing a small apartment building occupied by morons. It is November 12, 2010, two months after the events of both the Breaking Bad finale and El Camino, and a few weeks after Gene and Jeff robbed the department store. It is also Jimmy McGill’s 50th birthday (in a franchise where 50th birthdays tend to be important turning points for the protagonists). But more importantly, it is the date on which Saul and Francesca agreed — in the flash-forward teaser from Season Four’s 'Quite a Ride' — that she would be waiting by a payphone for an important call. The person on the other end of the line is our man, desperate for any good news from his old stomping grounds."

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stravinskian
Member since Feb 24th 2003
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Tue Aug-02-22 03:20 PM

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430. "Yup, that combover was doing some heavy work."
In response to Reply # 429
Tue Aug-02-22 03:22 PM by stravinskian

          

Once he lost it he looked a lot older.

Speaking of grooming, Saul's line to Mike about Walt's mustache was genius. It was something like "A guy with a mustache like that probably doesn't make good life decisions."

EDIT: Note, that 2 months was from when Walt went back to ABQ. But that was itself something like six months from when they disappeared. So Gene has been managing that cinnabon for something like 8 months.

  

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Brew
Member since Nov 23rd 2002
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Tue Aug-02-22 03:21 PM

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431. "Oh yea haha."
In response to Reply # 430


          

>Speaking of grooming, Saul's line to Mike about Walt's
>mustache was genius. It was something like "A guy with a
>mustache like that probably doesn't make good life
>decisions."

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mista k5
Member since Feb 01st 2006
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Tue Aug-02-22 04:39 PM

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441. "I was wondering the same"
In response to Reply # 424


  

          

I had seen someone mention that there was a previous interaction about the call but I didn't remember it. Glad you asked.

  

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Mynoriti
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433. "i fucking loved this epsidode *shrug*"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

honestly my only minor gripe is middle aged Jesse was distracting

most of the complaints in here feel weird, but to each his own

  

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Brew
Member since Nov 23rd 2002
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Tue Aug-02-22 03:34 PM

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434. "Yea same. And even Jesse wasn't all that jarring for me."
In response to Reply # 433


          

>honestly my only minor gripe is middle aged Jesse was
>distracting

Largely because I expected it but also because I thought they did as good a job as possible shielding us from his obviously-advanced age with lighting.


>most of the complaints in here feel weird, but to each his
>own

Yea same. It almost feels like I've been watching an entirely different show than everyone else lol. I just don't find these final episodes to be a departure, at all, from the tone/what we've come to expect from this series. And I think they're doing a masterful job tying everything together not only in terms of BCS in a vacuum but also between the two sister series.

----------------------------------------

"Fuck aliens." © WarriorPoet415

  

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Mynoriti
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436. "for me it was more his voice than his look"
In response to Reply # 434


  

          

like he *sounded* 50 i was kind of surprised buy it lol.

>>most of the complaints in here feel weird, but to each his
>>own
>
>Yea same. It almost feels like I've been watching an entirely
>different show than everyone else lol. I just don't find these
>final episodes to be a departure, at all, from the tone/what
>we've come to expect from this series. And I think they're
>doing a masterful job tying everything together not only in
>terms of BCS in a vacuum but also between the two sister
>series.

agreed 100%

I just got done watching. granted, I haven't thoroughly read through the replies but i scrolled here right after like damn, really? lol

  

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DJR
Member since Jan 01st 2005
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Tue Aug-02-22 04:02 PM

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437. "I noticed it in the voice too"
In response to Reply # 436


  

          

>like he *sounded* 50 i was kind of surprised buy it lol.
>
>>>most of the complaints in here feel weird, but to each his
>>>own
>>
>>Yea same. It almost feels like I've been watching an
>entirely
>>different show than everyone else lol. I just don't find
>these
>>final episodes to be a departure, at all, from the tone/what
>>we've come to expect from this series. And I think they're
>>doing a masterful job tying everything together not only in
>>terms of BCS in a vacuum but also between the two sister
>>series.
>
>agreed 100%
>
>I just got done watching. granted, I haven't thoroughly read
>through the replies but i scrolled here right after like damn,
>really? lol

He was hard to understand a few times. Didn’t care though. And yeah, they did a good job hiding it appearance wise.

After seeing fat Todd and egg head looking bald cap Walt in “El Camino”, thought they did a great job with the visuals of actors that are almost 15(!!) years older here than they were in season 2 of Breaking Bad.

  

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Mynoriti
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440. "lol yeah def not fat todd territory"
In response to Reply # 437


  

          

i knew it wouldn't be perfect.

i'm also glad they didn't go full hacky fan service route by having Jesse say "bitch". he just dropped one yo. i thought it was enough

  

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stravinskian
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Tue Aug-02-22 06:33 PM

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444. "Lighting and scene/costume choice."
In response to Reply # 434


          


>Largely because I expected it but also because I thought they
>did as good a job as possible shielding us from his
>obviously-advanced age with lighting.

The choice of scene to build from was either genius or lucky or both. If Aaron Paul had tried to walk around in the clothes and haircut that Jesse had in his 20s, that would have been Steve Buscemi with a skateboard.

But for this scene, it was already established that he'd be in all black from toe to chin, with a ski mask on his forehead. So that really only leaves the face. His face has broadened a bit, but as you said they handled that pretty well with lighting and angles.


Personally I didn't notice a problem with his voice either. But for one thing there wasn't much dialogue, and for another I guess I've already admitted that I watch this show with the goal of liking everything.

  

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DJR
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438. "Was I the only one looking for a bag of Funyuns in the RV?"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

  

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Mynoriti
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439. "the florida call"
In response to Reply # 0
Tue Aug-02-22 04:07 PM by Mynoriti

  

          

it might just be that i've seen Goodfellas too many times, but i took gene attacking the phone booth as a possibility Kim was dead.

it def looked more like he was arguing with someone on the phone, and he looked more frustrated than shocked or grief stricken, but his reaction hanging up, followed by his immediate backslide to full scumbag made me think it was a possibility.

probably more likely she just went off on him for calling, she was the one thing he was clinging too, and now that it's done, he went full heel.

  

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stravinskian
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446. "Whoops, you might have implanted the thoughts that led to my post 445."
In response to Reply # 439


          


Yeah, I agree, his reaction isn't what I'd expect from her saying she still didn't want to see him.

  

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dgonsh
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467. "my very un-thought-out Kim theory"
In response to Reply # 439


  

          

His reaction in the phone booth followed by the flashbacks to the RV and convo with Mike led me to think maybe kim has lung cancer.

all the smoking shots of Kim during the 6 year run. The way saul honed in on Walt's coughing and Mike revealing Walt has stage 3 lung cancer...then it ending with Saul ripping off and justifying ripping off people with cancer cause they do bad shit too...

It seems too on the nose and depressing to me, but I was like "umm does kim have lung cancer?"

I hope im wrong.

********************************************************************




"I *always* quote myself. I'm the only reliable source on *most* subjects" - OKP's First Lady of Knowledge, Janey

  

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Mynoriti
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468. "ohh WOW"
In response to Reply # 467


  

          

i hope you're wrong but this is kind of a great call.

  

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stravinskian
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470. "Yeah, there have been a surprising number of references"
In response to Reply # 467


          

to cancer. And it might connect in an interesting way to how she always used to smoke when she needed to relax. (Smoking helps her relax like the scams helped her relax.) And it would definitely play into their repeating themes about addiction and consequences.

Funny enough, I'd been getting possible cancer vibes about Gene. I'm not sure why, maybe mostly just all these same references. But also: as far as I'm aware, they still haven't fully explained why Gene passed out at work and had to go to the hospital. That was very reminiscent to how Walt passed out in the BB pilot.

But I think I agree with the two of you. It'd be disappointing if they went either of these ways, just because they've covered that ground already, and I think we could all think of a dozen more interesting paths from here that they've set up just as well.

I made a post somewhere up above noting a lot of random similarities between elements of BB and BCS. I think this cancer stuff might be another example. And one reason they might do it is because we all liked BB so much that they can get people theorizing about red herrings. The writers seem really intent on outsmarting their rabidly speculating fanbase.

  

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Brew
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Mon Aug-08-22 09:46 AM

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471. "Oh wow yea."
In response to Reply # 467


          

----------------------------------------

"Fuck aliens." © WarriorPoet415

  

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stravinskian
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445. "Second thoughts: maybe Kim wasn't on that call."
In response to Reply # 0


          

Initially I thought it was obvious that Gene was talking to Kim in that second phone call. But now that I think of it, it would be a little incongruous for Jimmy to get angry over Kim telling him off or telling him that she still doesn't want to be with him. It seems like if that's the way the conversation went, he'd be at least as sad and visibly hurt as he is angry.

Also, I just listened to the Insider podcast, and Peter Gould and others were notably noncommittal about where Kim is. Gould said something like "Kim has moved on to, somewhere else, I guess possibly Florida??" I don't think there'd be a reason for him to be coy unless that isn't actually where she is.

And Francesca didn't say "Kim called from Florida." She only said "Kim called." It was Gene who attached her to that sprinkler company.

So maybe Gene knew where to call because Kim told him shortly after she left (I don't know how fully she might have cut off communication). Or maybe Saul had Mike or some other PI track her down. And maybe that info was now out of date.

So maybe that phone call only got through to some random person at the sprinkler company, and maybe that person just said "Yes, Ms Wexler worked here for some time, but she resigned and moved away X months ago. I'm sorry but it would violate our HR policies to provide her forwarding address to others..."

In other words, maybe Gene was just mad that he'd lost her trail. That doesn't completely work, though, because Saul would still have enough money to pay a new PI to track her down. But it would set up the ending where they randomly find each other at a Royals game...

A darker possibility is that the sprinkler guy could have informed Gene that Kim passed away a few months ago (likely by suicide). I don't know if that provides much dramatic possibility for the last two episodes, but it would certainly explain Gene's rapid descent.

  

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DJR
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447. "My initial impression was he couldn’t get ahold of her"
In response to Reply # 445


  

          

and was getting the runaround, and that’s why he got frustrated enough to kick in the glass.

I didn’t think he actually talked to her or found out bad news about her. But that was just how I read things.

  

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stravinskian
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448. "I just saw the director confirmed we'll hear the conversation eventually..."
In response to Reply # 447


          


So at least they're not gonna leave it in the air, which I might have guessed was a possibility.

  

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Mynoriti
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449. "Mike's dead at this point "
In response to Reply # 445


  

          

Would have to be some other PI

  

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stravinskian
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450. "Yeah but I mean he could have found her years ago."
In response to Reply # 449
Tue Aug-02-22 10:17 PM by stravinskian

          

Sometime between episode 9 and Mike's death in Breaking Bad.

That's why I'm saying the info might be out of date.

But yeah, this doesn't seem like a job that would require an expert anyway. Any PI could find her again, or probably anyone with Google (or FinderSpyder, as the case may be).

  

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Mynoriti
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452. "ahh gotcha"
In response to Reply # 450


  

          

  

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Mynoriti
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454. "are we getting 2 more "Gene"s?"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

I have zero issue with it, just wondering if that's the move.
There's not really anything to wrap up. Even the gap/fall out after Walt was explained in the phone call.

The only 'if' is whether we'll see Kim, but that all exists in the Gene timeline. I pretty much expect him to wind up dead or locked up, but I'm not sure I've ever predicted anything correctly.

Gould said the post Lalo eps would be divisive. He clearly wasnt wrong lol

  

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Cold Truth
Member since Jan 28th 2004
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Wed Aug-03-22 01:39 AM

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455. "I’m pulling for him to pull a DB Cooper and live happily ever after wi..."
In response to Reply # 454
Wed Aug-03-22 01:40 AM by Cold Truth

  

          

>Gould said the post Lalo eps would be divisive. He clearly
>wasnt wrong lol

I don’t know about fans outside this site. I have a friend who’s a big fan, and he’s on the fence.

Here, I’m the only one bothered by these.

Are you seeing other backlash outside of this post?

Anyhow, I want him to get a happy ending.

All the major crooks in this show have gotten got.

Walt, Mike, Gus, the cartel, The Salamancas, Todd, the Nazis, all of them.

Even the “just a huge asshole” guy, Chuck, met a horrible demise.
Howard was just kind of an opportunistic prick and he got murked.

giving all the major crooks their just deserts would be a bit too much fantasy IMO.

And if there’s one character in this sweeping epic that could engineer a happy ending for himself, it’s Saul Goodman.

I doubt this happens though.

  

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stravinskian
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466. "I'm guessing so, with a few flashbacks."
In response to Reply # 454


          


There's gonna be another scene with Walt, so that would have to be a flashback since he's dead by now.

Jesse is probably a flashback too. This is only a couple months after Jesse ended up in Alaska, and I don't know how either finds the other (without a Robert Forster scene). Somebody guessed that maybe Gene gets caught and turns in Ed Galbraith and he gives up Jesse. But that doesn't make a lot of sense.

  

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allStah
Member since Jun 21st 2014
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Wed Aug-03-22 09:07 AM

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456. "If you don’t realize by now that Saul is a piece of shit and deserves"
In response to Reply # 0


          

a bullet to the head,, then you need to check your moral compass. He was dead
pressed on robbing a cancer patient, even after one of his partners in crime
was like “no, man, I’m not robbing a guy who is dying from cancer. Let’s just
move on to someone else.” He was preaching to Walt about being greedy, and getting
out while he was ahead right before things hit the fan, and here he is hell bent on robbing
a guy who is battling cancer.

Vince did the same thing with Walt’s character. So many people were on
on Walt’s side and had sympathy for him, and then the episode came where
Walt poisoned Brock. After that, it was like if you don’t see how much of an inhumane
person Walt is, then I don’t know what to tell you. Your moral compass is way off.

I was hoping Kim would catch a bullet as well, because she is just as bad, but
at least she admitted to herself and stop being in denial.

Mike, Nacho, and Jesse are/were the only ones who truly had good hearts,
and didn’t harm or dupe people out of greed or just simply to be diabolical.


Hopefully, I’m way off, but Carol Brunette seeing Gene in a more aggressive way, and
now that she knows about YouTube, I wouldn’t be surprised if she figures out who Gene
really is and contacts the Feds. I imagine she will stumble across an old Better Call Saul
commercial.



ALL HAIL THE KING of LOSING: LEBRON
Bulls | Bears | White Sox | Yankees | Notre Dame | Illinois | Chelsea | Real Madrid

  

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Mafamaticks
Member since Jan 12th 2004
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Wed Aug-03-22 09:17 AM

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457. "bruh"
In response to Reply # 456


  

          


>Mike, Nacho, and Jesse are/were the only ones who truly had
>good hearts,

  

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Cold Truth
Member since Jan 28th 2004
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Wed Aug-03-22 09:37 AM

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458. "Just like a sermon to undermine it's own message"
In response to Reply # 456
Wed Aug-03-22 09:40 AM by Cold Truth

  

          

>Mike, Nacho, and Jesse are/were the only ones who truly had
>good hearts,
>and didn’t harm or dupe people out of greed or just simply
>to be diabolical.

All of these three contributed to a monstrous amount of damage to people they don't even know exist.

Not that your moralizing made any reasonable points to begin with- it didn't- but the fact that you're compartmentalizing motive for their own transgressions, somehow determining that they had "truly good hearts" because the motive for their dirt was somehow more noble than mere greed or malice, completely undercuts anything you could possibly say about a moral compass.

The fact is, this is a tv show.
A fictional world.

Where we get to see the good, the bad, and the ugly of people are all, to some degree on the scale, the bad guys.

All of them. Every last one.

Yep, even Jesse, lost as he was, was a bad guy in this show.
And they put him through arguably the worst punishment had by anyone, and dealt him loss after loss after loss, showing us his pain from start to finish.

So we can easily empathize with him, with or without the disconnected fantasy of the show allowing us to root for people most of us wouldn't deal with in our personal lives, in the real world.

That doesn't change the fact that he was already on this path before he met Walt. Walt- and then Gus- just gave him a bigger platform.

So spare us the sermon, pastor. As with most sermons, your moral foundation on this subject requires us to ignore significant moral failings in order for us to pretend that the good parts don't have a serious dark side.

  

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allStah
Member since Jun 21st 2014
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Wed Aug-03-22 01:14 PM

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460. "Mike went to Nacho’s father and said as much. "
In response to Reply # 458
Wed Aug-03-22 01:30 PM by allStah

          

He knew in his mind and heart he had to set things straight with
Nacho’s father, because Mike had a conscious, and because Nacho and
his father reminded him of his relationship with his son.

Understand how the show pushed that dynamic between those characters.
He said something along the lines: “ your son was a good person. he had a good
heart. He just got mixed up with the wrong people.”

Nacho wound up in his situation because he was trying
to protect his father from Hector. I’m not saying he was innocent,
but he was just focused on the drug game and people that
that were in it.

Let me digress a bit:

It’s like Omar stated( The Wire), “I ain’t never put my hands on a working man.”
He had a code( a heart)…..Avon and Marlo killed and would kill innocent
people( witnesses)…..they had no heart( Marlo was just more ruthless).

Kim loved pulling schemes and cons for the fun of it, and she got
an innocent man killed,and totally lied about it. Saul is the same.
And Walt was a focking complete emotional maniac, and finally
admitted in the end that he did what he did for himself and that
he liked having power.

Jesse, Nacho, and Mike had codes or certain restraints where you
saw the humanness in them, and could relate to their characters.
They were not pieces of shit, or looking to harm or rule just for the fun of it.

Mike was doing what he was doing because he felt he owed his
step daughter ( for his son being murdered) , and he wanted his
granddaughter to be well off.

Jesse started off as a junkie and drug dealer, but he cleaned
himself up and became more responsible and conscious later on
in the show. He was the moral voice in the relationship between him
and Walt at times. Remember, Jesse started to improve as a person when he
started doing missions with Mike.


The connections between Mike and Nacho, and Mike and Jesse ,
out all the connections on the show, truly illustrated that they were
decent individuals. There was a good angel ( Mike) and bad angel( Gus)
dynamic with Nacho, and a good angel( Mike) and bad angel (Walt) dynamic
with Jesse from a communication and relationship stand point.



Saul, Kim, Gus and Walt….were not people of good intentions in my opinion.


But like you said they are all fictional characters, and it’s simply a fictional show,
and all of it is open for interpretation.






ALL HAIL THE KING of LOSING: LEBRON
Bulls | Bears | White Sox | Yankees | Notre Dame | Illinois | Chelsea | Real Madrid

  

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Cold Truth
Member since Jan 28th 2004
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Wed Aug-03-22 01:42 PM

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461. "None of that changes anything. "
In response to Reply # 460


  

          

None of these are good people.

All of these people are responsible for causing serious damage to the world around them, some more directly than others.

Having a code or restraint doesn't change much when you're still killing people.

Jesse was consistently put in lose-lose scenarios, but a lot of that was still the byproduct of choosing to participate in that world.

Mike's code means fuckall when he murdered Werner.

And make no mistake: that's what it was. Murder.

the fact that he didn't want to do it, doesn't change the fact that he did it. We can empathize more because of that conflict, but he's still a fucking murderer.

He was down to kill Walt, because Walt was a problem. Having a "code" where he doesn't kill for sport or kicks, doesn't change that he was prepared to murder a man. Whether or not it came down to business doesn't rectify or minimize that.

Every last one of these dudes could have went to the feds and cut the richest deal in history. They all chose the rules of the game over the out that could have struck a serious blow to the cartels and taken them out of the game in the process.

They chose otherwise.

I'm not judging or moralizing, because I can separate the show from real life, and I'm good with seeing these people as people in *all* their layers.

Yes, all of these people people have serious redeeming qualities.
Every last one. Walt's massive ego doesn't change that he loved his family, and wanted to ensure they'd want for nothing.

He could have quit while he was ahead and didn't. But that doesn't change his motive. So he's not just a purely evil piece of shit.

He "kidnapped" his daughter in order to help paint Skyler as a victim, and save what he could of his family. In doing so, he confirmed, without a doubt, that he was the villain. That was an undeniably good thing, within the context of the options at hand.

Kim was a good person, until she got hooked on Jimmy's games.

And as much as you want to shit on Kim like she's just as bad as everyone else- she isn't, not by a thousand fucking miles- she's the one person we saw see the worst possible consequence of her actions, and do an about face.

She was an absolute addict, and was able to find the strength of character to recognize what it was doing to her, and do what NOBODY else in this show has ever done:

Stop.

Everyone else, when faced with that decision, chose to continue.

Except Kim- at least, as far as we know, up to now.

They're all shades of gray. Their motives or codes don't make their vile acts any better, and their better moments don't undo the evil they've done. Singling out the three you relate to only shows that you're still able to empathize with the undeniably good elements of those people, but you're still ignoring inarguable evil they've done.

  

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stravinskian
Member since Feb 24th 2003
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Wed Aug-03-22 10:33 AM

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459. "Con todo respeto. No me parece que esto merezca una respuesta."
In response to Reply # 456


          

-- El Polliero

  

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Mynoriti
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Wed Aug-03-22 03:08 PM

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462. "Jesse met Andrea bc he was selling her meth at an NA meeting"
In response to Reply # 456


  

          

even Badger and Pete dipped out because it was too much of a scumbag move.

I hear what you're saying but i don't find it nearly as clear cut as you're laying it out.

they all made shit choices that led to ALOT of people suffering.
As skilled as Mike his, he could find PI or private security work to help his fam that didn't involve being Enforcer#1 in a meth empire.

as much as Jimmy/Saul/Gene has done, he's shown plenty of shades of humanity which made his full shitbird turn in this episode more offputting.

  

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pretentious username
Member since Jun 18th 2010
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Wed Aug-03-22 06:12 PM

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463. "Right, we’re sympathetic to Jesse, Mike, and Nacho for a couple reason..."
In response to Reply # 462


  

          

A) We’re naturally comparing them to the worst of the worst in both BB and BCS. Of course, they’re not as bad as Gus or Walt, but that’s not a good moral barometer. Shit, even those characters are sympathetic when you view the story through a certain lens. Gus is always plotting to get back at the cartel who murdered his lover, and when he finally gets his revenge you’re rooting for him, but then you consider how many people he hurts/kills along the way and you realize he’s a monster.

B) We’ve seen every aspect of their personality and know they have a good side, but that doesn’t cancel out all the horrible shit they’ve done.

The convo between Mike and Nacho’s Dad was very telling. Mike is surprised that Nacho’s Dad doesn’t agree with his idea of justice. He thinks it’s a translation issue lol. Just a short convo with a civilian affected by all this bullshit exposes the reality: Mike isn’t a good guy, he’s a bad guy with a code.

  

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Sofian_Hadi
Member since Jan 03rd 2003
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Fri Aug-05-22 05:44 PM

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469. "Agreed on Saul. But they're all various pieces of shit. "
In response to Reply # 456


          

Many sympathetic, but they've all done bad. Oddly, maybe Howard was the only non piece of shit. Lol. But im the President of the "Kim was an enormous scumbag piece of shit and people make excuses for her" club.

---------------------------------------

"The world is before you and you need not take it or leave it as it was when you came in." - James Baldwin

  

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stravinskian
Member since Feb 24th 2003
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Wed Aug-03-22 10:26 PM

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464. "Ahh, waterworks could refer to sprinklers!"
In response to Reply # 0
Wed Aug-03-22 10:40 PM by stravinskian

          

(The name of next week's episode is 'Waterworks.')

I'd been assuming the title meant Gene would get caught and, well, get very sad.

But maybe we're going to Florida next week.

Duhh, in retrospect, but I didn't put 2 and 2 together on that until somebody mentioned it in a podcast.


Also, be aware: unless the producers are REALLY trying to misdirect us, there are some spoilers out there about Gene's call to Florida. Somebody discovered a closed captioning transcript that seems to have accidentally leaked. Be careful on the internets if you don't want to risk the spoiler. Maybe just type 'funny cat videos' in the box.

  

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allStah
Member since Jun 21st 2014
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Mon Aug-08-22 09:18 PM

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474. "Boom! What did I tell you guys. "
In response to Reply # 0


          

I knew that’s how it was going to happen…..they foreshadowed the shit out of it, but
it was still good.

Great episode.

ALL HAIL THE KING of LOSING: LEBRON
Bulls | Bears | White Sox | Yankees | Notre Dame | Illinois | Chelsea | Real Madrid

  

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Nodima
Member since Jul 30th 2008
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Tue Aug-09-22 01:31 AM

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475. "I'm such a sucker for cops bickering their way into a crime, lol"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          


~~~~~~~~~
"This is the streets, and I am the trap." � Jay Bilas
http://www.popmatters.com/pm/archive/contributor/517
Hip Hop Handbook: http://tinyurl.com/ll4kzz

  

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Brew
Member since Nov 23rd 2002
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Tue Aug-09-22 09:39 AM

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482. "lol me too. Bumbling idiots."
In response to Reply # 475


          

----------------------------------------

"Fuck aliens." © WarriorPoet415

  

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Cold Truth
Member since Jan 28th 2004
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Tue Aug-09-22 02:12 AM

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476. "Holy fuck. 25 minutes in and this is gut wrenching. This is serious work..."
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

The black and white is still grating.

I still hate the choice. That won’t change.

But this is peak material.

As spoiler free as possible, that bus scene is one of the hardest and engaging scenes to watch. The tension at this point is well and hard earned.

****

I still want to fast forward through Jimmy’s prowling though, not that anyone cares lmao. That’s one lonely island right now.

  

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Nodima
Member since Jul 30th 2008
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Tue Aug-09-22 02:15 AM

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477. "Well, in that case..."
In response to Reply # 476


  

          


~~~~~~~~~
"This is the streets, and I am the trap." � Jay Bilas
http://www.popmatters.com/pm/archive/contributor/517
Hip Hop Handbook: http://tinyurl.com/ll4kzz

  

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stravinskian
Member since Feb 24th 2003
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Tue Aug-09-22 05:05 AM

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478. "This has been such a beautiful, tragic, rewarding story."
In response to Reply # 0
Tue Aug-09-22 05:23 AM by stravinskian

          

These writers are really shaming us all for expecting and wanting a Hollywood happy ending for characters who couldn't possibly deserve it. In retrospect, all these final story elements feel so inevitable, but they're surprising me with each one.

Specific thoughts about this episode:

* Those Florida scenes were DEVASTATING. I couldn't stay in my seat. After all we've seen, I still wanted to save Kim from that boring, trivial existence. But she's never needed or wanted saving. She made this decision. She's had enough excitement for one lifetime. When Kim was interviewing for Schweikart and Coakley, somebody asked her why she moved to Albuquerque. She said she wanted 'more.' More than she could get in small town Nebraska. If she'd stayed in Nebraska, she'd be married to some random guy and cashiering at the Hinky Dinky. In Florida, here she is opting for that kind of life. Opting for less. Is it all she thinks she deserves? Is it all she honestly wants anymore? It could be both, and she might be right.

* Easter egg: the desk in the cancer patient's house is the cocobolo desk that Jimmy got from Davis and Main.

* The fact that nobody even recognizes Kim when she goes to the Albuquerque courthouse is sad, completely plausible, and it says a lot about the ultimate futility of life. My favorite film is Barry Lyndon. And as I think about Kim in that court building, seeing it churn along without her, I remember the closing title card from Barry Lyndon: "It was in the reign of George III that the aforesaid personages lived and quarreled; good or bad, handsome or ugly, rich or poor, they are all equal now."

* That scene on the shuttlebus should win Rhea Seehorn two Emmys. And it actually just might.

* The scene with Kim, Jesse, and the brief mention of Combo, was perfect.

* In the end Carol Burnett was not Judge Papadoumian, she wasn't Kim's estranged mother, she wasn't related in any way to Ed the Disappearer. All those theories look silly now. She was just a nice, innocent old lady. And even as broken as Jimmy is at this point, he still doesn't want to hurt an innocent old lady, especially if she trusted him. That's how it was with those Sandpiper ladies, the elder law practice, and the mommy issues between Jimmy and Chuck. That's Jimmy's humanity. And while it can't redeem him, I'm glad it saved him from needlessly making things a lot worse.

* I need to rewatch, but it felt to me like Gene knew that Marion was gonna end up going alone to bail out Jeffy. If Gene was being serious about the con by then, he wouldn't have been so knowledgeable about criminal law on that phone call to Marion. He's been leading her to figure out his identity. And he's set things up in such a way that Marion and Jeffy will be able to argue for a lenient sentence for Jeffy, and might even be able to trade information. It's like how Walter, in the end, found a way to minimize the price that Skyler paid for his crimes.

(In fact, putting these last two points together: maybe Gene was never really tempted to murder Marion with that telephone cord. Maybe he just wanted to make sure she didn't see him as a friend anymore, so that he knew she'd be willing to turn him in for her own good. He's played that trick before (most obviously: the intentional 'hot mic' moment at Sandpiper chair yoga).

  

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stravinskian
Member since Feb 24th 2003
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Tue Aug-09-22 06:28 AM

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479. "Oh, and a cute thing with the color..."
In response to Reply # 478


          


I caught this at the time, but then had to be reminded of it by a review:

When Gene saw the old Saul Goodman ad on Marion's computer, the reflection in his glasses was in color, even though the rest of the world was still in black and white. They did this in the first season as well: when Gene pulled his old VHS tape out of the shoebox, the ads played in color in the middle of Gene's black and white apartment.

Maybe it's a cliche (it was obviously more weighty when Spielberg did the same thing in Schindler's list), but I appreciated it and I think it's another reason I'm fully on board with team blackandwhite.

  

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Brew
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Tue Aug-09-22 09:44 AM

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484. "Yea good call. I noticed that but didn't register it. Great stuff."
In response to Reply # 479


          

----------------------------------------

"Fuck aliens." © WarriorPoet415

  

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Brew
Member since Nov 23rd 2002
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Tue Aug-09-22 09:43 AM

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483. "Yea same ! Thought the same thing last nite."
In response to Reply # 478


          

>In retrospect, all these final story
>elements feel so inevitable, but they're surprising me with
>each one.

----------------------------------------

"Fuck aliens." © WarriorPoet415

  

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mista k5
Member since Feb 01st 2006
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Tue Aug-09-22 10:43 AM

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487. "great episode"
In response to Reply # 478


  

          

don't really have anything to add.

  

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stravinskian
Member since Feb 24th 2003
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Tue Aug-09-22 06:48 AM

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480. "The names Marion and Jeff..."
In response to Reply # 0
Tue Aug-09-22 06:55 AM by stravinskian

          

Were those an intentional reference to the brilliant series of British comedy shorts by Rob Brydon, called 'Marion and Geoff'?

'Marion,' spelled as it is, has always seemed like a strange name for Carol Burnett's character. It's kind of a common female name in the UK (hence Marion and Geoff), but I associate that name with men in the US. (Maybe just because of Marion Barry.)

In Marion and Geoff (to the extent I remember the story), Geoff (Brydon) is a cab driver (!) living in perpetual denial about the fact that his ex wife Marion (?) is moving on from him and developing a serious relationship with a man with whom she cheated on Geoff for years, and denial about the fact that Geoff's children seem to like their new daddy more than him (and their 'new' daddy might actually be their real daddy).

Other than the names and the fact that Jeff is a cabby, no obvious parallels. But those two are major enough to make it seem like it couldn't be a coincidence. Maybe the writers just found themselves with a cabby naked Jeff and when they needed a name for an important woman in his life, one of the writers might have just thought the reference would be cute.


Anyway, last I tried, Marion and Geoff was super difficult to track down and view (I think it's a BBC property, but because it's not a full show it hasn't had a normal release). But if you can find it, it's highly recommended.


EDIT: Wikipedia reminds me, in Marion and Geoff, Geoff is the other guy. Brydon's cabby character is named Keith. Still...

  

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Numba_33
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Tue Aug-09-22 07:46 AM

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481. "An episode with a small wart here and there, but still much better than ..."
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

Interesting way to put the phone conversation into context. If Jimmy/Saul/Gene's ego didn't lead him to placing that phone call to Kim, both of them would have been able to part ways without ripping on the band-aid of their split. It appears Jimmy/Saul/Gene attempting to swallow any remorse for the divorce led to that meltdown in the phonebooth since Kim said nothing to warrant his reaction. Pretty wild dude felt so entitled to getting the reaction he wanted from Kim since I'm assuming he knew she was married, not to mention it was six years since the split and how cold he treated her when they signed the divorce papers.

As much as I disliked these last batch of episodes, I did like seeing that phone call from both perspectives and its aftermath.

"Sean sparks like John Starks, nah, Sean ball like John Wall" - Rest In Power Forever Sean Price.

  

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Brew
Member since Nov 23rd 2002
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Tue Aug-09-22 09:46 AM

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485. "What were the warts ?"
In response to Reply # 481


          

>Pretty wild dude felt so
>entitled to getting the reaction he wanted from Kim since I'm
>assuming he knew she was married, not to mention it was six
>years since the split and how cold he treated her when they
>signed the divorce papers.

She's not married.

----------------------------------------

"Fuck aliens." © WarriorPoet415

  

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stravinskian
Member since Feb 24th 2003
12698 posts
Tue Aug-09-22 11:33 AM

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488. "I don't think they were clear whether she's married or not."
In response to Reply # 485
Tue Aug-09-22 11:42 AM by stravinskian

          

But she's clearly in a long-term relationship with that cretin.

(Lol, a 'cretin' who's probably never been an accessory in anyone's death, but I still know that he makes my stomach turn.)

  

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Brew
Member since Nov 23rd 2002
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Tue Aug-09-22 11:37 AM

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489. "No ring on her finger, he left her house at nite ..."
In response to Reply # 488
Tue Aug-09-22 11:40 AM by Brew

          

... after the cookout, "yep" session, and Amazing Race.

I mean they didn't come out and say it but did they need to ?

----------------------------------------

"Fuck aliens." © WarriorPoet415

  

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stravinskian
Member since Feb 24th 2003
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Tue Aug-09-22 11:47 AM

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490. "Ah, I didn't check for a ring. Good catch."
In response to Reply # 489
Tue Aug-09-22 11:48 AM by stravinskian

          

I'm still guessing they're living together. They just both seemed to live in that house. I assumed he left because he has a night job. But if that's the case I guess they'll clarify next week. He might even be a cop (not that Kim needs to be near a cop to get 'caught' at this point).

  

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Brew
Member since Nov 23rd 2002
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Tue Aug-09-22 12:01 PM

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494. "Hm yea that's a possibility I suppose."
In response to Reply # 490


          

>I'm still guessing they're living together. They just both
>seemed to live in that house. I assumed he left because he has
>a night job. But if that's the case I guess they'll clarify
>next week. He might even be a cop (not that Kim needs to be
>near a cop to get 'caught' at this point).

----------------------------------------

"Fuck aliens." © WarriorPoet415

  

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stravinskian
Member since Feb 24th 2003
12698 posts
Tue Aug-09-22 04:59 PM

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519. "On second viewing, I'm coming around to your original view."
In response to Reply # 494


          


The way he left the house was not "alright honey I'm off to work." It was "Yeah, I'll see you Thursday when we try out that new Outback Steakhouse." (As of it'll be different from any other Outback steakhouse.)

In other words, they're regularly dating, casually fucking, maybe think of themselves as a couple, but not living together.

Which raises an even more horrifying realization: Kim Wexler, our Kim Wexler, "Lalo Salamanca, get your shit together!" Kim Wexler, actually owns that hideous La-Z-Boy recliner. In her own house. She may have even purchased it!

Kim!! Let me save you from this!


  

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Brew
Member since Nov 23rd 2002
24419 posts
Mon Aug-15-22 11:58 AM

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535. "LOLOL"
In response to Reply # 519


          

>Which raises an even more horrifying realization: Kim Wexler,
>our Kim Wexler, "Lalo Salamanca, get your shit together!" Kim
>Wexler, actually owns that hideous La-Z-Boy recliner. In her
>own house. She may have even purchased it!
>
>Kim!! Let me save you from this!

----------------------------------------

"Fuck aliens." © WarriorPoet415

  

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Numba_33
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Tue Aug-09-22 11:51 AM

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491. "I'll take your word for it."
In response to Reply # 489
Tue Aug-09-22 11:59 AM by Numba_33

  

          

I remember Howard's ex wearing what I'm assuming was Howard's ring despite how strained their relationship was before he died, but I don't remember seeing Kim wear one, so you're probably right.

I just assumed they were married since I was under the assumption all the other couples they had that cookout with in the beginning of the episode were married.

To answer your question about the warts, seeing Jessie took me out of the episode a bit because he was much older and outside of the fan service nature of the scene, the dialog they shared didn't add much to me. Also, I truly wish the show did a better job casting that cab driver. Each time I see him, he reminds me of what a step down he was compared to the original actor.

"Sean sparks like John Starks, nah, Sean ball like John Wall" - Rest In Power Forever Sean Price.

  

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Brew
Member since Nov 23rd 2002
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Tue Aug-09-22 12:02 PM

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495. "Yea I assumed marriage at first too, but on rewatch I looked for ring et..."
In response to Reply # 491


          

>I remember Howard's ex wearing what I'm assuming was Howard's
>ring despite how strained their relationship was before he
>died, but I don't remember seeing Kim wear one, so you're
>probably right.
>
>I just assumed they were married since I was under the
>assumption all the other couples they had that cookout with in
>the beginning of the episode were married.
>
>To answer your question about the warts, seeing Jessie took me
>out of the episode a bit because he was much older and outside
>of the fan service nature of the scene, the dialog they shared
>didn't add much to me. Also, I truly wish the show did a
>better job casting that cab driver. Each time I see him, he
>reminds me of what a step down he was compared to the original
>actor.

I agree regarding the actor switch. It's really jarring. And on Talking Saul they didn't even reference it, which I thought was weird.

----------------------------------------

"Fuck aliens." © WarriorPoet415

  

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Brew
Member since Nov 23rd 2002
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Tue Aug-09-22 12:12 PM

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496. ""So she has a boyfriend, Glen ...""
In response to Reply # 495
Tue Aug-09-22 12:12 PM by Brew

          

https://www.rollingstone.com/tv-movies/tv-movie-recaps/better-call-saul-recap-waterworks-1393640/

"The cinematography choice is fitting, though, because her life is as bleached of color as Gene’s. She is less of a loner, because she has no need to hide from the authorities. So she has a boyfriend, Glen, and a group of other friends both at home (even if perhaps via Glen and his buddies) and the office. And she is dedicated to the job she does, because Kim Wexler is not built to half-ass anything. But it is a deliberately boring life. Glen is nice but dull (no man should say 'yup' that many times during sex, if at all), the friends kind but banal — her lunch group at work seems positively agog at the idea of people using illegal drugs, while Kim once verbally pantsed Lalo Salamanca — the job unchallenging."

----------------------------------------

"Fuck aliens." © WarriorPoet415

  

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mista k5
Member since Feb 01st 2006
16414 posts
Tue Aug-09-22 03:13 PM

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512. "at first i was thinking they might not even be a couple"
In response to Reply # 495


  

          

i thought it was a fake out like the bikers(cyclist?) at frings house.

until the sex i wasnt even sure lol i did notice driving away at night so i thought long term bf at best maybe even just a fwb.

  

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stravinskian
Member since Feb 24th 2003
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Tue Aug-09-22 12:14 PM

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497. "Personally I thought that scene was one of the most important."
In response to Reply # 491


          


The one with Kim and Jesse, I mean. But I just saw an interview with Vince Gilligan where he said it was not essential and they mostly did it for fun, so you're in good company if that's your view.

But for me, I could feel that knife twisting in Kim's gut as Jesse was extolling her skill at getting Combo out of trouble with no consequences; saying it with every implication that he's done a lot worse since then. Kim wanted to help stop powerless innocent people from getting eaten up by the system. She never accounted for the fact that she'd also be helping guilty people avoid consequences. And all of us who live in the future know just how sad the consequences eventually were for Combo after she played a role in letting him escalate things.

The one part of her Albuquerque life that she honestly SHOULD be proud of got thrown in the gutter in that moment. And Jesse was just being honest with her and even thought he was complimenting her.

  

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Brew
Member since Nov 23rd 2002
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Tue Aug-09-22 12:18 PM

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498. "Yea I thought the scene was excellent, as well as fun."
In response to Reply # 497


          

And as Sepinwall points out in his typically excellent piece about this episode, the scene pits together sort of kindred spirits from their respective shows, on a number of levels. So I loved it and find it essential, too.


>The one with Kim and Jesse, I mean. But I just saw an
>interview with Vince Gilligan where he said it was not
>essential and they mostly did it for fun, so you're in good
>company if that's your view.
>
>But for me, I could feel that knife twisting in Kim's gut as
>Jesse was extolling her skill at getting Combo out of trouble
>with no consequences; saying it with every implication that
>he's done a lot worse since then. Kim wanted to help stop
>powerless innocent people from getting eaten up by the system.
>She never accounted for the fact that she'd also be helping
>guilty people avoid consequences. And all of us who live in
>the future know just how sad the consequences eventually were
>for Combo after she played a role in letting him escalate
>things.
>
>The one part of her Albuquerque life that she honestly SHOULD
>be proud of got thrown in the gutter in that moment. And Jesse
>was just being honest with her and even thought he was
>complimenting her.

----------------------------------------

"Fuck aliens." © WarriorPoet415

  

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stravinskian
Member since Feb 24th 2003
12698 posts
Wed Aug-10-22 11:06 PM

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530. "Yeah, that's an insightful point about Kim and Jesse. Regarding Sepinwal..."
In response to Reply # 498


          

Another interesting thing he pointed out was that way back in the JMM episode (if I remember the details right), Jimmy peeked around a corner in the courthouse building, and his reflection could be seen in the polished stone. So he and his mirrored reflection were in the same shot, which people take to have suggested that there were two Jimmys by then. And in Waterworks, Gene looks around a corner in the cancer patient's house and the shot is the same except there isn't a reflection anymore, indicating that there's now only one guy in there.

I don't know why this isn't pointed out in that discussion, but there's also a shot of Kim (and Yepyep), cleaning up after the cookout. And again, a mirror is placed to make Kim symmetric in the shot (it's at the 5:30 mark).

So if we're supposed to take the Gene shot to mean that Jimmy's found his way in life, we should take this Kim shot to mean that she's still uncertain. I can't help thinking she has some more surprises planned in the next episode.

I dunno, someone in one of the podcasts suggested that it's a little offensive to assume Kim is still scheming after all she did to unburden herself from past schemes. So I dunno. Maybe something's there, or maybe the writers are just skillfully employing tropes to keep me curious to the end.

  

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Brew
Member since Nov 23rd 2002
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Mon Aug-15-22 11:59 AM

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536. "Oh wow !"
In response to Reply # 530


          

>Another interesting thing he pointed out was that way back in
>the JMM episode (if I remember the details right), Jimmy
>peeked around a corner in the courthouse building, and his
>reflection could be seen in the polished stone. So he and his
>mirrored reflection were in the same shot, which people take
>to have suggested that there were two Jimmys by then. And in
>Waterworks, Gene looks around a corner in the cancer patient's
>house and the shot is the same except there isn't a reflection
>anymore, indicating that there's now only one guy in there.
>
>I don't know why this isn't pointed out in that discussion,
>but there's also a shot of Kim (and Yepyep), cleaning up after
>the cookout. And again, a mirror is placed to make Kim
>symmetric in the shot (it's at the 5:30 mark).
>
>So if we're supposed to take the Gene shot to mean that
>Jimmy's found his way in life, we should take this Kim shot to
>mean that she's still uncertain. I can't help thinking she has
>some more surprises planned in the next episode.
>
>I dunno, someone in one of the podcasts suggested that it's a
>little offensive to assume Kim is still scheming after all she
>did to unburden herself from past schemes. So I dunno. Maybe
>something's there, or maybe the writers are just skillfully
>employing tropes to keep me curious to the end.

Wow this is all very fascinating stuff. Glad to have seen this before tonite.

----------------------------------------

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Numba_33
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511. "I thought Jesse's purpose"
In response to Reply # 497
Tue Aug-09-22 03:10 PM by Numba_33

  

          

was to nudge Kim out of the slight sense of doubt she was feeling towards getting the divorce once she realized the Jimmy she knew felt no remorse for what happened to Howard since he had no qualms slipping into the underbelly of the law, as personified by Jesse. Outside of the heavy downpour, I took her slight hesitancy and how cold Saul was to her as the reasons she needed to smoke her stress away.

The more Jesse talked to her and the key question of him asking if Saul was the right lawyer for his illicit needs was the sign she needed to verify her decision to get the divorce.

IMO, the same realization could have been achieved by having Kim take a long glance at the folks sitting in the waiting room to see just what Saul was willing to do to earn a living.

If she had the memory to actually recall Combo like you're suggesting, more power to her given the emotional state she was in prior to leaving Jimmy's room, but I doubt she cared that much about Combo in the moment.

"Sean sparks like John Starks, nah, Sean ball like John Wall" - Rest In Power Forever Sean Price.

  

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stravinskian
Member since Feb 24th 2003
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Tue Aug-09-22 03:37 PM

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516. "Yeah I think that scene will be endlessly analyzed."
In response to Reply # 511


          

And I think there are a lot of valid interpretations and they'll probably let us all take from it what we will.

As for whether she remembered Combo, IIRC, she just came right out and said she remembered him and the case with the baby Jesus. (That is, she probably remembers the baby Jesus theft more than anything else about combo specifically.) I just mean to say that Jesse is implying that Combo has gotten deeper since then, and that might make Kim regret doing such a good job getting him off. She meant it when she said she hopes he's getting his life together, and Jesse is treating that like just something people say.


BTW, I swear I heard this story of Combo stealing a baby Jesus before. Did Hank Schrader mention it when he met Combo's Mom and searched his abandoned bedroom?

  

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Cold Truth
Member since Jan 28th 2004
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Wed Aug-10-22 12:26 AM

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522. "Honestly, I think that would have been kind of gross"
In response to Reply # 511


  

          


>IMO, the same realization could have been achieved by having
>Kim take a long glance at the folks sitting in the waiting
>room to see just what Saul was willing to do to earn a
>living.

That sounds like a Chuck move.
Saul may represent scumbags- but even scumbags deserve a defense.

For as much as Saul gets shit on for his choice of clientele, it’s bot like the government plays by the rules.

We saw both Hank and Gomey show a willingness to stoop to less lawful and ethical tactics to get their guy. Hell, we saw what a pig Hank is early, with his pictures with dead bodies.

We’ve also seen how some of Saul’s own questionable tactics have clearly illustrated that the state didn’t quite have the goods. I.e, switching out defendants for an eyewitness who was certain that the fake was the guy who did it.

Obviously this raises a more complex series of ethical considerations.

But the crux of this is, that Kim merely looking at his clientele and using that as her guiding light is kind of gross on it’s face, and frankly, would do a better job of illustrating why Saul is something of a necessary force in the world:

We don’t know who among them is guilty, or to what degree, much less the quality of the case against them, or the corners the state would cut to get them.

I think the convo with Jesse accomplishes a similar goal (though, is that really the goal there?), but in a much more subtle way.

But then, that wasn’t my take on that scene. Her pro bono work was important to her, and I doubt she’d have viewed Combo in a negative light.

I also don’t think she needed to verify she made the right choice. I think that ship had already sailed. Moreover, it came after she signed. Had it come on her way in, then I think it plays much better to that goal.

For me, it was a gentle call back to her and Jimmy’s parking garage smokes at HHM.

I seem to remember those smokes coming after a tense moment, and it would be something of a comfort for one another.

Here, it comes after another tense moment- only now, that tension came from the official finality of their split.

With what we already know about Jesse and Saul’s future, it encapsulates the change of their relationship.

Jesse’s presence reminds her of who she and Saul once were, in contrast to who they are now.

  

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Brew
Member since Nov 23rd 2002
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537. "Agree a trillion percent."
In response to Reply # 522
Mon Aug-15-22 12:02 PM by Brew

          

Kim of all people would never just assume that people are bad by taking one glance at them.


>>IMO, the same realization could have been achieved by having
>>Kim take a long glance at the folks sitting in the waiting
>>room to see just what Saul was willing to do to earn a
>>living.
>
>That sounds like a Chuck move.
>Saul may represent scumbags- but even scumbags deserve a
>defense.
>
>For as much as Saul gets shit on for his choice of clientele,
>it’s bot like the government plays by the rules.
>
>We saw both Hank and Gomey show a willingness to stoop to less
>lawful and ethical tactics to get their guy. Hell, we saw what
>a pig Hank is early, with his pictures with dead bodies.
>
>We’ve also seen how some of Saul’s own questionable
>tactics have clearly illustrated that the state didn’t quite
>have the goods. I.e, switching out defendants for an
>eyewitness who was certain that the fake was the guy who did
>it.
>
>Obviously this raises a more complex series of ethical
>considerations.
>
>But the crux of this is, that Kim merely looking at his
>clientele and using that as her guiding light is kind of gross
>on it’s face, and frankly, would do a better job of
>illustrating why Saul is something of a necessary force in the
>world:
>
>We don’t know who among them is guilty, or to what degree,
>much less the quality of the case against them, or the corners
>the state would cut to get them.

----------------------------------------

"Fuck aliens." © WarriorPoet415

  

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Numba_33
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493. "Kim leaving at night. Interesting."
In response to Reply # 489


  

          

I didn't even put two and two together to realize she probably told the Miracle Whip dude about her past as well and Miracle Whip probably gave her the boot since her past is probably much too complicated for him to want to deal with.

"Sean sparks like John Starks, nah, Sean ball like John Wall" - Rest In Power Forever Sean Price.

  

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pretentious username
Member since Jun 18th 2010
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Tue Aug-09-22 12:54 PM

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501. "Lmaooooo "
In response to Reply # 489


  

          

>”yep" session

I was dying.

  

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stravinskian
Member since Feb 24th 2003
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Tue Aug-09-22 01:14 PM

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504. "Regarding marriage..."
In response to Reply # 489


          

I don't really remember what made me think this when I was watching last night, so maybe this is just complete speculation.

But I got a little suspicious about whether she actually submitted those divorce papers (from Jimmy) like she said she would. Why would she be the one to run that errand? Saul is sending paperwork back and forth to that court every day. Why not just add that to the pile? And one of the themes of this episode is that post-ABQ Kim is suddenly and weirdly incapable of making decisions.

That visit to Saul was horrifying for her, I'm sure, but maybe most of all because it made clear the man she once loved is going off the rails. Maybe before she submits the paperwork, she remembers that the marriage (supposedly) started out as a trick to make it so that they wouldn't have to testify against each other. Maybe that's why she's still being coy about whether Jimmy's alive. Maybe Kim and Jimmy are still married to each other (dun dun dunnn!) and that fact might feature in his trial.

Seems a little silly now that I type it out. Just wanted to get it in the record so that I can take credit if some variant of this turns out to be true, lol.

  

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Brew
Member since Nov 23rd 2002
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Tue Aug-09-22 02:54 PM

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509. "Haha I don't think it's silly at all."
In response to Reply # 504
Tue Aug-09-22 02:55 PM by Brew

          

And perhaps your theory could also help to explain why they weren't exactly forthcoming about whether or not "Glen" was her boyfriend or husband. Again, I think if you were paying attention, it's clear that they weren't married. But there was no direct mention one way or the other.

So yea I think this theory may actually be in play. That may also help to explain why Kim still lied to Cheryl about whether or not she knew if Jimmy/Saul/Gene was alive or not.

Wild.


>I don't really remember what made me think this when I was
>watching last night, so maybe this is just complete
>speculation.
>
>But I got a little suspicious about whether she actually
>submitted those divorce papers (from Jimmy) like she said she
>would. Why would she be the one to run that errand? Saul is
>sending paperwork back and forth to that court every day. Why
>not just add that to the pile? And one of the themes of this
>episode is that post-ABQ Kim is suddenly and weirdly incapable
>of making decisions.
>
>That visit to Saul was horrifying for her, I'm sure, but maybe
>most of all because it made clear the man she once loved is
>going off the rails. Maybe before she submits the paperwork,
>she remembers that the marriage (supposedly) started out as a
>trick to make it so that they wouldn't have to testify against
>each other. Maybe that's why she's still being coy about
>whether Jimmy's alive. Maybe Kim and Jimmy are still married
>to each other (dun dun dunnn!) and that fact might feature in
>his trial.
>
>Seems a little silly now that I type it out. Just wanted to
>get it in the record so that I can take credit if some variant
>of this turns out to be true, lol.

----------------------------------------

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Brew
Member since Nov 23rd 2002
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Tue Aug-09-22 10:41 AM

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486. "Yep. Yep. Yep ! Yep. Yep ! Yep."
In response to Reply # 0


          

----------------------------------------

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stravinskian
Member since Feb 24th 2003
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Tue Aug-09-22 12:44 PM

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500. "Am I the only one who kept seeing that Banker's dad?"
In response to Reply # 486


          


(I forget his name, but the founder of Mesa Verde. Kevin's dad.)

The way he said 'yyyup!' in that ad that Jimmy sliced and diced ... I can't hear the word yup! without seeing him saying it. Made it even creepier.

  

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mrhood75
Member since Dec 06th 2004
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Tue Aug-09-22 11:54 AM

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492. "First things first..."
In response to Reply # 0
Tue Aug-09-22 12:23 PM by mrhood75

  

          

...just mail Seahorn the 2023 Emmy now. The overall performance (and, of course, the bus scene) will gives her next year's win and, as Strav said above, probably help her to win this year's as well.

This should be the end of Kim's story on the show. Following up the scene on the bus with her signing the divorce papers and sharing a cigarette with Jesse is pretty much the perfect stopping point. It doesn't really matter if the DA decides to prosecute or Howard's wife takes her to civil court (for what money?): the Kim character has run its course.

That said, I don't particularly feel sorry for Kim. Even after to confessing to Howard's ex, she's getting off easy. The things that she did, orchestrated, or merely participated in with Jimmy and Mike/Gus would get her sent to prison at worst or disbarred and disgraced at best. Instead, she gets to live a boring life in Florida. And doing puzzles and getting boned by Mr. Yup while making potato salad with Miracle Whip and trying to decide between vanilla and strawberry ice cream for the office party is much preferable to spending years in prison.

Overall, a great episode. Odenkirk was great in this episode as well. Everything with Carol Burnett was gold. I know the combo B&W and color shot of Saul and Gene's worlds colliding was a little on the nose, but it was an inspired choice.

Again, I don't really know where they go for the Series Finale. I'm not really interested in it being about the posthumous vindication of Howard Hamlin. I'm also in agreement with something that CT said above, in that Jimmy ending up in prison or dead isn't that interesting either. Him having to live the rest of his life on the run, without the peace of mind of Jesse Pinkman, completely unable to help himself from fucking up, has some poetry to it. Even if it is him also getting off easy.

I also noticed with the bonus Pinkman scene, they made sure to shoot him mostly in the shadows, with no close-ups, so he didn't look like he was in his mid-40s.

-----------------

www.albumism.com

Checkin' Our Style, Return To Zero:

https://www.mixcloud.com/returntozero/

  

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stravinskian
Member since Feb 24th 2003
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Tue Aug-09-22 12:40 PM

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499. "Yeah, I don't know what's coming in the finale either."
In response to Reply # 492


          

And it's gonna be a long one. The longest episode of the series, by a big margin. Something like an hour and a half, not counting ad breaks.

One thing that's got my ears perked up: Kim actually lied to Howard's wife one more time. She directly indicated that she doesn't know if her fugitive ex is alive, when we all know that she's well aware that he is. Presumably she also withheld this info from the DA.

So I'll disagree with you on one thing: while I agree they don't NEED to do more with Kim, I think they're probably planning on it. Maybe Kim even has some chicanery planned to get the heat off Gene (dunno why she'd want to, but she's clearly still very conflicted about the Jimmy she knew). But at the same time, Gene clearly wouldn't know this and he's personally ready to be in shackles. Maybe there's even a Romeo & Juliet dynamic where they both end up destroying themselves out of simple miscommunication.

It was a little conspicuous that they made sure we know that Bill Oakley is now a defense lawyer. I'm guessing the finale puts Jimmy on trial in Albuquerque, represented by Bill Oakley, and Kim testifies either for or against him. Maybe Kim even perjured herself in that statement to the DA, and that becomes clear, and Jimmy and Kim end up called off to separate prisons. Kim will have a shorter sentence, but she'll be miserable. Jimmy will be in for a very long time, but he'll be the most popular guy on the cell block.

  

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Brew
Member since Nov 23rd 2002
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Tue Aug-09-22 12:59 PM

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503. "Great analysis. Can't wait."
In response to Reply # 499


          

>And it's gonna be a long one. The longest episode of the
>series, by a big margin. Something like an hour and a half,
>not counting ad breaks.
>
>One thing that's got my ears perked up: Kim actually lied to
>Howard's wife one more time. She directly indicated that she
>doesn't know if her fugitive ex is alive, when we all know
>that she's well aware that he is. Presumably she also withheld
>this info from the DA.
>
>So I'll disagree with you on one thing: while I agree they
>don't NEED to do more with Kim, I think they're probably
>planning on it. Maybe Kim even has some chicanery planned to
>get the heat off Gene (dunno why she'd want to, but she's
>clearly still very conflicted about the Jimmy she knew). But
>at the same time, Gene clearly wouldn't know this and he's
>personally ready to be in shackles. Maybe there's even a Romeo
>& Juliet dynamic where they both end up destroying themselves
>out of simple miscommunication.
>
>It was a little conspicuous that they made sure we know that
>Bill Oakley is now a defense lawyer. I'm guessing the finale
>puts Jimmy on trial in Albuquerque, represented by Bill
>Oakley, and Kim testifies either for or against him. Maybe Kim
>even perjured herself in that statement to the DA, and that
>becomes clear, and Jimmy and Kim end up called off to separate
>prisons. Kim will have a shorter sentence, but she'll be
>miserable. Jimmy will be in for a very long time, but he'll be
>the most popular guy on the cell block.

----------------------------------------

"Fuck aliens." © WarriorPoet415

  

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Numba_33
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Tue Aug-09-22 12:57 PM

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502. "if next week"
In response to Reply # 492


  

          

>This should be the end of Kim's story on the show. Following
>up the scene on the bus with her signing the divorce papers
>and sharing a cigarette with Jesse is pretty much the perfect
>stopping point. It doesn't really matter if the DA decides to
>prosecute or Howard's wife takes her to civil court (for what
>money?): the Kim character has run its course.

will be the last time to visit the Breaking Bad universe, I'd like for the show runners to divulge just how far reaching Kim's confession(s) are. I'm assuming she also told her Sprinkler Job and Miracle Whip about her past and both gave her the boot, so I'm curious just how far she's willing to go to pay penance. This arguably could delve into the fan service route, but it's information I'd like to get just the same assuming this will be the last time to visit these characters.


>Everything with Carol Burnett was gold.

I've been pretty negative with these last batch of episodes, but she does deserve her props for her acting here. I didn't get taken out of place when she was on the screen despite how big her name is. Very good job at playing her character given how limited her screen time was.

"Sean sparks like John Starks, nah, Sean ball like John Wall" - Rest In Power Forever Sean Price.

  

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allStah
Member since Jun 21st 2014
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Tue Aug-09-22 01:21 PM

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505. "Please let Kim catch 2 bullets to her Medulla "
In response to Reply # 0
Tue Aug-09-22 01:32 PM by allStah

          

I couldn’t imagine her to be more selfish than what she already was, but she masterfully
topped that.

She was too busy “HAVING FUN” and saturated in her agenda to tell Jimmy about
Lalo still being alive, which led to Howard being murdered. Now, in her bleached new
life she is so sad and full of shame that she spills the beans to the DA and to Howard’s
widow on what jimmy and her did to Howard. So, with all that, not only are the Feds
after Jimmy for helping Walter White to run an illegal Drug operation, and the collateral
damages and death that came with it, there are going to connect him with Lalo and
the Mexican drug cartel, as well as the murdering of Howard. He is now double up shit
creek. And since no one of importance is alive, because all the notorious characters are
dead and buried, they are going to pin EVERYTHING on him.

Jimmy is a scumbag, too, but he continued to carry the weight of the entire situation
because he was not only looking out for himself, but he was looking out for Kim and
and for people that used to work for him. That is why he was screaming at Kim that he
wasn’t going to turn himself in, and that her so called feelings of righteousness was
bullshit.

It’s always about Kim and her feelings, and how they need to be satisfied. Whether she
is pulling a con job or trying to gain some type of salvation, it’s always about Kim and
her poor little feelings. Please let the show end with her being put in a body bag.
She was talking all that righteous crap to the Kettlemans, when she is the biggest
con and crook of them all.







ALL HAIL THE KING of LOSING: LEBRON
Bulls | Bears | White Sox | Yankees | Notre Dame | Illinois | Chelsea | Real Madrid

  

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stravinskian
Member since Feb 24th 2003
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Tue Aug-09-22 01:34 PM

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506. "^ Just inspected some photos with a weird liquid on them."
In response to Reply # 505


          


How much caffeine do you normally drink? Are your pupils okay?

  

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Cold Truth
Member since Jan 28th 2004
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Wed Aug-10-22 02:58 AM

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523. "You have a hyper-aggressive, over the top hatred for Kim"
In response to Reply # 505
Wed Aug-10-22 03:05 AM by Cold Truth

  

          

This is particularly glaring considering that, of all the horrible people in this story, she was the one who saw the damage she had caused and did what nobody else has done:

STOP. Quit. Leave.

And, while she snitched on Jimmy,she also snitched on herself.

She didn't go to the police, or DEA, she went to Howard's widow.

She wasn't under pressure. This wasn't Skyler, caught in the cross hairs.
She was free & clear.

At worst, you could stretch and say that the call from Gene rattled her, made her fear that she was going to get caught, and decided to get ahead of it. That's a pretty big maybe though, considering that the most reasonable conclusion here is much simpler, and much more in line with what we've seen from her character:

She had a crisis of conscience. Unlike everyone else, she didn't make a beeline toward the darkside. It was a slow, gradual change- and, again, she was the one saw the damage she had done and realized she didn't want to continue.

Despite this... you still see her as the worst of the worst, and the one deserving of getting murdered.

All while moralizing about how awful she is for snitching on Jimmy- despite the fact that Jimmy was the devil on her shoulder this entire time, while she was always the angel on his.

You talk about Mike and Jesse being these guys with great hearts, despite Mike being a cold blooded murderer, with countless bodies on his hands, not to mention serving as the primary muscle for one of biggest meth dealers ever, making him intimately complicit in countless crimes. Same with Jesse for cooking that shit.

Kim's crimes are exponentially less and smaller by comparison- and her redeeming qualities are arguably greater.

So it's... interesting, that you're so over the top in your hatred of Kim, let alone your desire to see her shot in the head.

  

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allStah
Member since Jun 21st 2014
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Wed Aug-10-22 02:31 PM

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525. "No, she went to the DA. she gave an affidavit."
In response to Reply # 523
Wed Aug-10-22 02:58 PM by allStah

          

Also, she told Howard’s widow that it will be up to the DA if charges will be pressed, but considering they don’t have a body she is not sure. Go rewatch. So the DA knows or will know, and that will no doubt lead back Jimmy and his association with the murder and
Lalo and the Cartel. And the reason why it’s really bad for Jimmy, he was Lalo’s lawyer.
So there’s that.

https://youtu.be/7T9x3h3RrS4

No one is super aggressive about Kim. She is simply full of shit, and is a
despicable person. And there are some fans who feel the same way
about her character.

With the Kettlemans, it was her idea to come with the stick, when Jimmy felt that was
too harsh and over the top. She persisted to go with him when he went to go meet them,
and even got mad when he gave them some money…..Her idea. Her rules.

With Howard, Jimmy felt it was over the top and wanted to pull out of the scheme, but
again she persisted because she was having “too much fun”……and from that a good
man’s name was destroyed and he was murdered…Her idea. Her rules. Her plans.


And with this whole sprit of righteousness she is feeling, and the fact that she is now disgusted with herself, she reopens old wounds and brings Howard’s widow even more
pain. That’s why Howard’s widow asked: “ why are you telling me this now?” That’s why Jimmy, again, over the phone, told her that her righteousness was bullcrap, because it is
….Her idea. Her plans. Her rules.


Everything was always about her and what she wanted and when she wanted to do it.
She was a bad influence on Jimmy, and not the other way around. That was and is as
clear as day, and no sudden strike of salvation is going to remove the fact that Kim is
a disgusting person….She just did a great job at disguising it.

She was always an angel? What show were you watching?

And if she really wants to make up for the death of Howard, she needs to catch
two bullets to the the medulla in the finale.

Also, one more thing, this is going to put the FBI back on Jimmy’s secretary. She had
cut a deal with them by giving up Jimmy’s shell accounts. Now, the round of questioning
and investigations will come about again.






ALL HAIL THE KING of LOSING: LEBRON
Bulls | Bears | White Sox | Yankees | Notre Dame | Illinois | Chelsea | Real Madrid

  

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Cold Truth
Member since Jan 28th 2004
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Wed Aug-10-22 03:27 PM

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527. "I missed that. Nothing else I said changes. You want her *dead* "
In response to Reply # 525


  

          

>Also, she told Howard’s widow that it will be up to the DA
>if charges will be pressed, but considering they don’t have
>a body she is not sure. Go rewatch. So the DA knows or will
>know, and that will no doubt lead back Jimmy and his
>association with the murder and
>Lalo and the Cartel. And the reason why it’s really bad for
>Jimmy, he was Lalo’s lawyer.
>So there’s that.

Cool. And what does she have to gain from any of that?

She put herself in potential danger.


>No one is super aggressive about Kim.

Yes, there is: you.

She is simply full of
>shit, and is a
>despicable person. And there are some fans who feel the same
>way
>about her character.

I'm talking to you, about your take, not "some fans".

>With the Kettlemans, it was her idea to come with the stick,
>when Jimmy felt that was
>too harsh and over the top. She persisted to go with him when
>he went to go meet them,
>and even got mad when he gave them some money…..Her idea.
>Her rules.

And? Again: every one of these people are horrible people.

That includes the supposedly good-hearted Mike and Jesse.

>With Howard, Jimmy felt it was over the top and wanted to pull
>out of the scheme, but
>again she persisted because she was having “too much
>fun”……and from that a good
>man’s name was destroyed and he was murdered…Her idea. Her
>rules. Her plans.

Her plans didn't include killing Howard.

Lalo did that.

>And with this whole sprit of righteousness she is feeling, and
>the fact that she is now disgusted with herself, she reopens
>old wounds and brings Howard’s widow even more
>pain.

LMAO WHAT?

She brought the truth. And closure. Pain comes with that.

It can help salvage Howard's name and legacy, if nothing else.

That’s why Howard’s widow asked: “ why are you
>telling me this now?” That’s why Jimmy, again, over the
>phone, told her that her righteousness was bullcrap, because
>it is
>….Her idea. Her plans. Her rules.

Everything everyone does is their plan, their rules, their idea.

Do you get how long that list is for Walt, Gus, Mike, Saul, etc?

Their idea, their plan, their rules. Even when those ideas, plans, and rules are at the behest of someone with more power: They all actively choose this life.

But again, you seem extra amped over Kim's comparatively minor sins in particular.

Even now, in your effort to defend that stance, all you've done is showcase how badly you really really really really want her to get shot in the head, because she's somehow the worst of the worst of the worst on a show full of horrible people.

It's, you know, interesting.

>Everything was always about her and what she wanted and when
>she wanted to do it.
>She was a bad influence on Jimmy, and not the other way
>around.

You're objectively wrong about that, and the story literally shows otherwise. She became the negative influence, to be sure. But the lions share of that relationship was quite the opposite.

That was and is as
>clear as day, and no sudden strike of salvation is going to
>remove the fact that Kim is
>a disgusting person….She just did a great job at disguising
>it.

No, she quite clearly caught a whiff of Saul's game and it turned her on.

And so she did what many addicts do: give in to the addiction. Like many addictions, destruction was the result.

But for everyone else? This shit was, to a large degree, just who they were.

>She was always an angel? What show were you watching?

Yes, she was always the angel on his shoulder, where he was the devil on her.

"always" is commonly used in general terms, not absolute terms. Stop being obtuse.

>And if she really wants to make up for the death of Howard,
>she needs to catch
>two bullets to the the medulla in the finale.

No, you just really, really, really want to see her murdered.

>Also, one more thing, this is going to put the FBI back on
>Jimmy’s secretary. She had
>cut a deal with them by giving up Jimmy’s shell accounts.
>Now, the round of questioning
>and investigations will come about again.

So... more people implicit in all this dirt get rounded up because Kim decided to do the right thing.

What's the problem?

Remember, you're Mr Morality in here. Kim is doing the objectively right thing here- yet you seem to have a huge problem with that.

Big Heart Mike didn't do that.
When Jesse wanted to give money to that kid's family (on the dirt bike), he didn't implicate himself in the process.

You who chose to give the family of the victim of their own wrongdoing that sort of closure, putting her life in jeopardy in the process?

Kim. And no other major player in this story did that.

  

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Brew
Member since Nov 23rd 2002
24419 posts
Mon Aug-15-22 12:13 PM

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538. "I think this is more likely than you're giving it credit for."
In response to Reply # 523
Mon Aug-15-22 12:19 PM by Brew

          

>At worst, you could stretch and say that the call from Gene
>rattled her, made her fear that she was going to get caught,
>and decided to get ahead of it. That's a pretty big maybe
>though, considering that the most reasonable conclusion here
>is much simpler, and much more in line with what we've seen
>from her character:

I don't think that last point is necessarily true at all. She's got a history of self-preservation, even in instances when she was simultaneously side-eyeing Jimmy for *his* antics that she - with the looks on her face in those moments - viewed as mortifying and unbelievable. Most recently when she told the final lie to Hamlin's widow. The fact that she was willing to go to those lengths even while she was obviously regretful and disgusted by the events that led to that point says a lot more about her than I think you're letting on here.

Ultimately you may be right, I just think we need to be more realistic about who she is. She very well may have filed the affidavit and will cooperate against Jimmy to save herself.

All that said, I think your overarching point about allstah typically being unreasonable re: his lambasting of Kim is correct. He's going a little too far. No surprise there.

----------------------------------------

"Fuck aliens." © WarriorPoet415

  

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Cold Truth
Member since Jan 28th 2004
44843 posts
Mon Aug-15-22 09:26 PM

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543. "I’m speaking specifically to his particularly intense hatred for Kim"
In response to Reply # 538


  

          

>>At worst, you could stretch and say that the call from Gene
>>rattled her, made her fear that she was going to get caught,
>>and decided to get ahead of it. That's a pretty big maybe
>>though, considering that the most reasonable conclusion here
>>is much simpler, and much more in line with what we've seen
>>from her character:
>
>I don't think that last point is necessarily true at all.
>She's got a history of self-preservation, even in instances
>when she was simultaneously side-eyeing Jimmy for *his* antics
>that she - with the looks on her face in those moments -
>viewed as mortifying and unbelievable.

I’d argue that most things most people do are self-serving- especially in this show.

They all still have shades of gray, and while she grew increasingly

Most recently when she
>told the final lie to Hamlin's widow. The fact that she was
>willing to go to those lengths even while she was obviously
>regretful and disgusted by the events that led to that point
>says a lot more about her than I think you're letting on
>here.

I’m not ignoring those aspects.

This is specifically illustrating how she, in this sea of scumbags, warrants nowhere near the level of vitriol shown by All-Stah- particularly in light of him saying Mike and Jesse have “good hearts”, when the overall damage they did was exponentially greater than Kim’s.

Jesse tried to get out of the game.

And yes, he eventually cooperated with Hank against Walt- but that was sheer revenge, and coming at a time when he was pretty much dead to rights.

It’s miles away from Kim doing what was actually the right thing

Which is why I laid that out as the worst case scenario for Kim’s motive.
Not as a way to paint her as a saint.
But to put her in contrast to the other scumbags in this world.

And in that contrast, it’s reasonable to say that nobody in this show was able to retain as much of their good side as Kim Wexler.

She’s inarguably tainted. What she did to Howard was wildly disproportionate, and foul.

But blaming Howard’s death squarely at her feet when it was clearly, unarguably an unfortunate crossing of the lines that was out of her control?

I don’t see a reasonable argument for that.

Wanting her get shot in the head- twice?
Says more about him than it does her.

Mike has all these bodies.

Jesse joined a recovery group to sell them the most addictive product on the market, bringing his girl and her kid into a danger zone nobody can pretend he didn’t know existed.

>Ultimately you may be right, I just think we need to be more
>realistic about who she is. She very well may have filed the
>affidavit and will cooperate against Jimmy to save herself.

But again, that’s speculation at best. It’s ambiguous at worst, and it doesn’t exactly lean that way.

>All that said, I think your overarching point about allstah
>typically being unreasonable re: his lambasting of Kim is
>correct. He's going a little too far. No surprise there.

Agreed. I’m not trying to downplay Kim’s role in this. I’m just showing she has greater redemptive qualities relative to everyone else. he’s talking about how Mike and Jesse have such huge hearts while saying she needs to get two bullets to the head….the fact remains, she still displayed far more remorse through her actions than anyone else.

Howard died, and that was a hard line for her running these scams, and got out.

None of these other guys did that.their bodies piled up.

  

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Nopayne
Member since Jan 03rd 2003
52628 posts
Tue Aug-09-22 02:21 PM

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507. "Haha I actually thought this episode was the finale"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

I really thought they ended the show with Jimmy getting chased off like that. I was fully prepared for the PTP backlash if they actually went in that direction.

---
Love,
Nopayne

  

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stravinskian
Member since Feb 24th 2003
12698 posts
Tue Aug-09-22 04:13 PM

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517. "Haha I could be okay with that."
In response to Reply # 507


          

But yeah there would be backlash.

I really think, intentionally or not, they're doing the same thing they were accused of in Breaking Bad: giving us four episodes in a row that each speak to different elements of the story, so each one could work, itself, as a finale.

'Nippy' closed out the story of slippin Jimmy and the simple pleasures of outsmarting people when the stakes are low. It even showed him enjoying life in the cinnamon roll industry again. If people stopped there they could assume Gene finds peace as Gene.

'Breaking Bad' closed out the story of Jimmy's self destructive addiction to 'the game' and his unhealthy fixations on others. If you stopped there you'd wonder what happens after he breaks that window but you'd know it's not good and the details are no longer important.

'Waterworks' (arguably) closes out the story of the schism with Kim Wexler and what's left of the Jimmy who would remember the names of the old ladies' cats. If you stopped there you might assume that Jimmy saved Gene from Saul and he continues on the lam, but that's all he'll ever get.

But 'Saul Gone' will hopefully bring all this together and remove the ambiguity between these elements of the story (probably in ways that aren't perfect but do the job as well as it can be done).

  

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allStah
Member since Jun 21st 2014
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Tue Aug-09-22 02:53 PM

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508. "There are tease commercials for the upcoming finale"
In response to Reply # 0


          

where you can hear Jimmy in the background trying to remember the exact
name of the Hoover Vac model to order. I assume he lost the card or no
longer has it.

I can’t see him turning himself in, and I can’t see him getting caught either. He is
“Slipping” Jimmy for a reason, and I imagine the show will stay true to that image.
He will find a way to slip out of everything.

He actually made a mistake by going to Nebraska of all places. He would have been
better off going east like Kim did.

So hopefully he gets to order his second Hoover vac, and maybe that was the plan all
along ,to generate as much as possible from the con jobs, and then take off again.

ALL HAIL THE KING of LOSING: LEBRON
Bulls | Bears | White Sox | Yankees | Notre Dame | Illinois | Chelsea | Real Madrid

  

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Brew
Member since Nov 23rd 2002
24419 posts
Tue Aug-09-22 02:56 PM

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510. "There was also a teaser about a car crash, his voice shaky."
In response to Reply # 508


          

----------------------------------------

"Fuck aliens." © WarriorPoet415

  

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stravinskian
Member since Feb 24th 2003
12698 posts
Tue Aug-09-22 03:19 PM

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513. "If you're thinking about what I'm thinking about, it wasn't a crash."
In response to Reply # 510


          

It was Jimmy's old Suzuki Esteem, rusting away in that ditch by the border, with weeds growing through it. And yeah, Jimmy talking about the Max Extract Pressure Pro model 16 in a voiceover. Neither of which makes a lot of sense to me at this point (not that that means anything).

The car was an important clue for Lalo to become suspicious of Saul. But I don't see how it matters to anyone's legal situation by now.

But I love the esteem, and I love the Disappearer (Robert Forster RIP). So I hope these things are important and I look forward to finding out how.

  

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Brew
Member since Nov 23rd 2002
24419 posts
Tue Aug-09-22 03:32 PM

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515. "Oh right ! Thanks for the reminder. Glad I brought this up lol."
In response to Reply # 513


          

So I wouldn't be waiting for a crash or some shit. I thought, in the moment, that giving away a crash was a little too much of a giveaway for a series finale teaser so I'm glad I saw that wrong. I was only half paying attention, generally speaking I'd have noted what he was talking about and recognized the Esteem.


>It was Jimmy's old Suzuki Esteem, rusting away in that ditch
>by the border, with weeds growing through it. And yeah, Jimmy
>talking about the Max Extract Pressure Pro model 16 in a
>voiceover. Neither of which makes a lot of sense to me at this
>point (not that that means anything).
>
>The car was an important clue for Lalo to become suspicious of
>Saul. But I don't see how it matters to anyone's legal
>situation by now.
>
>But I love the esteem, and I love the Disappearer (Robert
>Forster RIP). So I hope these things are important and I look
>forward to finding out how.

----------------------------------------

"Fuck aliens." © WarriorPoet415

  

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Numba_33
Charter member
19333 posts
Tue Aug-09-22 03:26 PM

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514. "RE: There are tease commercials for the upcoming finale"
In response to Reply # 508
Tue Aug-09-22 03:28 PM by Numba_33

  

          

>where you can hear Jimmy in the background trying to remember
>the exact
>name of the Hoover Vac model to order. I assume he lost the
>card or no
>longer has it.

The Feds that raided Saul's House of Opulence have the card as it was stuck in the Veterinarian's Black Book. I do wonder if they have any clue what that card represents and are able to bust the cleaning service as result.

I'm assuming no as they would be a bit too neat and tidy.

"Sean sparks like John Starks, nah, Sean ball like John Wall" - Rest In Power Forever Sean Price.

  

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allStah
Member since Jun 21st 2014
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Tue Aug-09-22 04:21 PM

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518. "Even if they did, they wouldn’t have found anything, because the guy"
In response to Reply # 514
Tue Aug-09-22 04:22 PM by allStah

          

literally sells vacuums and leaves no traces of his underworld business, and like
you said that would be way too neat.

But we shall see.

ALL HAIL THE KING of LOSING: LEBRON
Bulls | Bears | White Sox | Yankees | Notre Dame | Illinois | Chelsea | Real Madrid

  

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Cold Truth
Member since Jan 28th 2004
44843 posts
Wed Aug-10-22 09:44 AM

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524. "I think the cleaner runs too tight a ship. "
In response to Reply # 514
Wed Aug-10-22 09:44 AM by Cold Truth

  

          

Plus with one ep left, it would feel a bit cheap for him to make the call and then show up to see feds in the shop.

Only ways I see that happening are:

-Saul slips somehow, and a call or something is intercepted
-Kim knows about him somehow and mentions it

Naturally, there are things I likely missed in my stream of conscious spitball. But it does seem hard to pull off in one episode without it coming across as unearned.

  

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stravinskian
Member since Feb 24th 2003
12698 posts
Tue Aug-09-22 06:45 PM

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521. "When Kim is in Florida, she has a clear Nebraska accent."
In response to Reply # 0


          


(I say "clear Nebraska accent" even though I don't really know that accent. I'm just imagining a milder version of the Minnesota accent.)

I wonder if any of her Florida friends even know that she lived in Albuquerque. She might have just told everyone that she moved there directly from Red Cloud Nebraska.

I guess it would be hard to explain why she stopped being a lawyer and all that.

  

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allStah
Member since Jun 21st 2014
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Wed Aug-10-22 02:54 PM

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526. "Cheryl’s disgust with Kim when Kim"
In response to Reply # 0


          

says Howard didn’t suffer is similar to Nacho’s father’s reaction to Mike telling
him that Lalo being killed was justice for Nacho’s death.

https://youtu.be/7T9x3h3RrS4

The writer’s let you know who your sympathy should go to.

A fan on YouTube wrote that and I felt it was a good take.

ALL HAIL THE KING of LOSING: LEBRON
Bulls | Bears | White Sox | Yankees | Notre Dame | Illinois | Chelsea | Real Madrid

  

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Cold Truth
Member since Jan 28th 2004
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Wed Aug-10-22 03:35 PM

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528. "RE: Cheryl’s disgust with Kim when Kim"
In response to Reply # 526


  

          

>says Howard didn’t suffer is similar to Nacho’s
>father’s reaction to Mike telling
>him that Lalo being killed was justice for Nacho’s death.
>
>https://youtu.be/7T9x3h3RrS4
>
>The writer’s let you know who your sympathy should go to.

That's obvious to anyone with a sense of human decency.

Our sympathies generally lie with the victims of such crime.

That's not a particularly insightful take, nor would it be a significant bit of writing.

But more than that, do you know who else thought that the sympathy should lie with Cheryl?

Kim.

That's why, with no discernible incentive- and with significant potential danger to herself- Kim finally told the truth.

Something you have a strange problem with.

Mike walked a decent man out into the desert and blew his brains out and arranges to give his wife a bullshit cover story- but he has a good heart.

Kim wanted to ruin a guy who was an insufferable asshole, but who didn't deserve that degree of ruin, and he got murdered by someone else in a situation she could not have foreseen or expected and eventually came forward to give his wife closure, potentially destroying what's left of her life in the process.

Somehow, she deserves to get two bullets- oddly specific- in the head- also specific.

The contrast between those two takes is rather stark.

  

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allStah
Member since Jun 21st 2014
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Wed Aug-10-22 05:04 PM

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529. "Well, the difference is Mike didn’t pose to be some righteous figure "
In response to Reply # 528
Wed Aug-10-22 05:09 PM by allStah

          


or try to disguise his true nature, or pretend to be about the greater good.

Also, Mike killed Werner unwillingly. He liked Werner a lot and could relate to him,
but Gus ordered Werner’s death, because Werner broke strict rules. So, instead
of allowing Gus to have Werner killed viciously, he took it upon himself to kill Werner
to spare him from being tortured….The same way he stepped in to try and save Nacho,
and stepped in to save Nacho’s father

Mike caught a bullet, which led to his death.

Kim only came forth because she was disgusted with herself and couldn’t live
with the guilt of it all. It had nothing to do with wanting to set the record straight or
clear Howard’s name. She did it for herself, and Cheryl saw right through that bullcrap.

It’s one thing to be a notorious, ruthless villain, and have no regard for the lives
that you destroy. That is disdainful. However, it is another thing to project yourself as
some holier than thou egalitarian, who is just as vicious and despicable as the all other
scum on the planet.

Lalo pulled the trigger that killed Howard. Yes. He did, but it is Kim who
is responsible for his death, because she got him killed. Her reckless behavior and
ruthless actions led to his murder. It’s called manslaughter.

And yes she deserves to catch 2 bullets to the Medulla. One for the death of Howard,
and 2 for snitching. Hopefully, poetic justice is in store. …I hope
it ends with Cheryl going ape shit on her.

Please BCS, do it for Howie and Cheryl.





ALL HAIL THE KING of LOSING: LEBRON
Bulls | Bears | White Sox | Yankees | Notre Dame | Illinois | Chelsea | Real Madrid

  

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Beamer6178
Member since Jan 09th 2006
6379 posts
Sat Aug-13-22 09:52 PM

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531. "Kim Wexler would eat this bullshit charge up in preliminary hearings.."
In response to Reply # 529


  

          


>
>Lalo pulled the trigger that killed Howard. Yes. He did, but
>it is Kim who
>is responsible for his death, because she got him killed. Her
>reckless behavior and
>ruthless actions led to his murder. It’s called
>manslaughter.
>
>And yes she deserves to catch 2 bullets to the Medulla. One
>for the death of Howard,
>and 2 for snitching. Hopefully, poetic justice is in store.

anyone who walked through that door was going to be killed by Lalo. Howard just so happened to be the one. Howard had seemingly never been to her place before (or in recent memory). Lalo only once before. She had absolutely NO concept of them both being there together.



Kim is better at lawyering, better at conning, better at doing her job than everyone else, but she isn't better at compartmentalizing. Her hands are dirty as fuck but she doesn't have the emotional fortitude to deal with the consequences of fallout.

  

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allStah
Member since Jun 21st 2014
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Sun Aug-14-22 03:34 PM

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533. "^^^I agree with your last paragraph."
In response to Reply # 531


          

ALL HAIL THE KING of LOSING: LEBRON
Bulls | Bears | White Sox | Yankees | Notre Dame | Illinois | Chelsea | Real Madrid

  

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Beamer6178
Member since Jan 09th 2006
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Sat Aug-13-22 09:58 PM

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532. "The divorce signing scene was helpful"
In response to Reply # 0
Sat Aug-13-22 09:58 PM by Beamer6178

  

          

I was frustrated that they turned from Jimmy to Saul so quickly without showing his progression. He wasn't exactly dealing with the criminal underworld so even after 5 years, he didn't seem to have the clientele to live such an ornate lifestyle. His mentioning the Sandpiper Litigation $$$ was helpful because it explained how he was able to set things up (it wasn't clear on how much money was in the black leather bag).

His clientele before Walt was probably in large part a network of resources and connections for evading legal consequences, moreso than a profit house.

  

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Brew
Member since Nov 23rd 2002
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Mon Aug-15-22 12:18 PM

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539. "Didn't we all see that coming tho ?"
In response to Reply # 532


          

>His mentioning the Sandpiper Litigation $$$ was
>helpful because it explained how he was able to set things up
>(it wasn't clear on how much money was in the black leather
>bag).
>
>His clientele before Walt was probably in large part a network
>of resources and connections for evading legal consequences,
>moreso than a profit house.

I kind of figured the Sandpiper money funded his gaudy lifestyle many episodes ago, but maybe you saw something I didn't that hinted that they never got it, or something.

----------------------------------------

"Fuck aliens." © WarriorPoet415

  

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stravinskian
Member since Feb 24th 2003
12698 posts
Mon Aug-15-22 07:51 AM

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534. "Here we go! First month free at my Squat Cobbler Onlyfans!"
In response to Reply # 0


          

There's a poll when you sign up. Lemme know if you like em with tears.

Supposedly Cinnabon is giving away free "middle of the roll"s today. So maybe that'll be the theme of my first Boston Cream Splat.

As for tonight's episode: I'm pretty sure Saul's going away for a very long time, perhaps with help from Kim's affidavit. But Jimmy won't hold it against her. He's more than ready to do his time. And he'll be very popular with the other inmates. So it might be the first time he feels fully at home.

Less confident bet: Kim DOESN'T get locked up, to her great annoyance, but she moves back to ABQ and comes as close to practicing law again as the bar will allow. Her main job is to rehabilitate Howard Hamlin's name (though I don't know what that would mean, seven years along). The other benefit of being back in ABQ: she can visit Jimmy every week. She does, and it's great, and she wears the stolen earrings every time.

Marion is about to be a millionaire. I doubt they do anything with that (in fact, I doubt Marion shows up at all after Carol's perfect moment last week), but it's a fun thing to contemplate. Jeffy won't get a dime from newly well-off Marion, and rightly so. He'd never be able to keep his nose clean without a 9 to 5. Actually Jeffy probably goes away too, but I doubt Gene rats him out.

  

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stravinskian
Member since Feb 24th 2003
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Mon Aug-15-22 07:16 PM

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540. "A theory just occurred to me..."
In response to Reply # 534


          

I'm rewatching Waterworks right now before the finale, and it's got me thinking about the events of Gene getting turned in by Marion. (I'm also a little bit high, so I hope this theory makes as much sense tomorrow, lol.) But I'm also thinking about how they frequently mirror plot devices from Breaking Bad.

One of the endgame devices in Breaking Bad was how Walt figured out a way to get his money to the family without them knowing it.

It occurs to me that Gene might be doing something similar with Marion.

Like I said in another post around here, I kinda think Gene was just trying to scare Marion after she figured him out. And I think a lot of us agree that Gene has been trying to get caught ever since that phone call with Kim.

Gene talked Kim into turning herself in, maybe without knowing it, but I think maybe Kim talked Jimmy into it too.

But he didn't want to just turn himself in. He wanted to do it in a way where someone he liked could get a big benefit out of it. By scaring Marion enough to make her turn him in, he figured out a way to make a nice old lady rich in the process!

So he even turned 'turning himself in' into a scam!

  

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SuiteLady
Member since Oct 19th 2004
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Mon Aug-15-22 07:19 PM

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541. "My cucumber water is ready, my nachos are ready and I am going to "
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

heating my Cinnabon right at the -2 minutes mark. Can't wait!

♥ Inescapably Me ♥

"Love is never any better than the lover" Toni Morrison (The Bluest Eye)

  

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mista k5
Member since Feb 01st 2006
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Tue Aug-16-22 09:27 AM

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565. "ha i was trying to think of a good dinner to watch the show with"
In response to Reply # 541


  

          

this would have been perfect

  

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stravinskian
Member since Feb 24th 2003
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Tue Aug-16-22 10:14 AM

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569. "Lol I got a Cinnabon, too. "
In response to Reply # 541


          


By the time the episode was over I wanted some Blue Bell mint chip ice cream and a rusty nail with a lemon twist.

  

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Sofian_Hadi
Member since Jan 03rd 2003
5628 posts
Mon Aug-15-22 09:25 PM

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542. "Brilliant show. Brilliant universe. Brilliant ending. "
In response to Reply # 0


          

I'm about to watch Breaking Bad and do it all over again.

---------------------------------------

"The world is before you and you need not take it or leave it as it was when you came in." - James Baldwin

  

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Cold Truth
Member since Jan 28th 2004
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Mon Aug-15-22 09:39 PM

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544. "Great ending. I’m sad that it’s over. On my GOAT short list"
In response to Reply # 0
Mon Aug-15-22 09:40 PM by Cold Truth

  

          

I have such affection for this show and these characters, and the roller coaster of these last few eps was special.

Can’t wait to discuss.

I’ll say this for now: Peter Diseth’s eyes deserve an emmy for this ep.

Create a one-time category, I don’t care. Give him a medal, at least.

  

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stravinskian
Member since Feb 24th 2003
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Tue Aug-16-22 10:30 AM

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570. "Lol, I wasn't sure who Peter Diseth was at first."
In response to Reply # 544


          


So I went to look him up, but then I thought, no, I can figure this out from the eyes comment. Whose eyes deserve an award? Oh shit, yeah, Bill Oakley.

You're 100% right, but he played it so well I didn't even catch that big part of what he was doing until you pointed it out.

Like so many characters in this world, Bill Oakley started out as a one-off nobody with no plans for a reappearance. But he was just too fucking good to not keep around. I'm glad he got such a prominent place in the finale.

  

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stravinskian
Member since Feb 24th 2003
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Mon Aug-15-22 09:42 PM

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545. "God, God, God!"
In response to Reply # 0


          


I don't think I've ever been speechless about this show (evidence above). But it'll take me some time to compose my thoughts.

  

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Cold Truth
Member since Jan 28th 2004
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Mon Aug-15-22 10:17 PM

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548. "I’m here for you! "
In response to Reply # 545


  

          

Lol

This was one hell of a ride, man.

  

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allStah
Member since Jun 21st 2014
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Mon Aug-15-22 09:46 PM

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546. "WACK. WACK AS HELL."
In response to Reply # 0
Mon Aug-15-22 10:13 PM by allStah

          

**Spoilers***







So he took the fall for the entire operation, and was put away for
86 years?

And Kim is still alive and well, and faced zero retribution. He even did
a weebay and took responsibility for Howard being murdered.

By him saying Walter’s operation wouldn’t have happened without him, and
that he was a major player…takes heat off Jesse, his former secretary, and all other
parties who were involved. He went down for an entire operation of drugs and murder.
He was even added as an accessory in Hank and Gomie being murdered.

Everybody else basically got off Scott free….and this dude is going to be in prison
for life.


That is fucked up…

What a wack ass ending.

















ALL HAIL THE KING of LOSING: LEBRON
Bulls | Bears | White Sox | Yankees | Notre Dame | Illinois | Chelsea | Real Madrid

  

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Cold Truth
Member since Jan 28th 2004
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Mon Aug-15-22 10:17 PM

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547. "Yes. Yes you are."
In response to Reply # 546


  

          





















I’m sorry you didn’t get to jerk off to a scene of a tangentially involved woman get shot in the face.

Let’s be real: that’s the beginning, middle, and end of what this is about.

The way you praise Mike’s “good heart” because he has a “code”, in contrast to your incredibly strong desire to see Kim get shot, twice- you’ve been quite specific and consistent in that desire- in the base of the back of her skull- another consistently specific wish😬- makes this pretty clear.

For all your moralizing above, you’re also incredulous that Saul actually atood up and took responsibility for his actions, while at once sparing Kim- the women he lead, despite her following, and eagerly- into this mess.

She’s complicit.
She has blood on her hands.

But Saul chose to be a stand up guy in the end.
Took his punishment.
Did so in a way that helped spare someone he loved dearly.
He also gave some sense of closure to Marie and Blanca.

And you’re irate over this.

Cool. Each their own. But your hatred for Kim is mad disproportionate.

  

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allStah
Member since Jun 21st 2014
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Mon Aug-15-22 10:33 PM

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550. "We agree to disagree. He was given 86 years in prison and basically"
In response to Reply # 547
Mon Aug-15-22 10:37 PM by allStah

          

took the fall for everyone who was involved, regardless of them
being dead or alive. He is going to rot in jail for the rest of his life.
That’s not redemption or salvation, that’s one’s remaining years
on this planet being torturous, while all other parties who were involved
escape any kind of retribution.

He lost everything, even his life.

So, again, we agree to disagree.


BTW, you’re posting is always over the top and assuming

ALL HAIL THE KING of LOSING: LEBRON
Bulls | Bears | White Sox | Yankees | Notre Dame | Illinois | Chelsea | Real Madrid

  

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Cold Truth
Member since Jan 28th 2004
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Mon Aug-15-22 10:41 PM

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551. "Can you remove the spoiler in the header?"
In response to Reply # 550
Mon Aug-15-22 10:46 PM by Cold Truth

  

          

We can bicker all the live long day
But respect the game!

Jokes aside, you should remove the spoiler there

>took the fall for everyone who was involved, regardless of
>them
>being dead or alive. He is going to rot in jail for the rest
>of his life.
>That’s not redemption or salvation, that’s one’s
>remaining years
>on this planet being torturous, while all other parties who
>were involved
>escape any kind of retribution.
>
>He lost everything, even his life.
>
>So, again, we agree to disagree.

You didn’t say anything I disagree with.
You also didn’t address the specific criticisms I raised

>BTW, you’re posting is always over the top and assuming

Nope, sorry.
Everything I said sits perfectly within the context of what you’ve said

I haven’t assumed a damn thing. I addressed the actual things you’ve said- and I make strong, factual and contextually sounds arguments to backup my stance.

It’s not on me if you can’t/won’t engage in the same way.

  

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Sofian_Hadi
Member since Jan 03rd 2003
5628 posts
Tue Aug-16-22 07:06 AM

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558. "How does that let everyone else off the hook??"
In response to Reply # 546


          

You think they wouldn't still go hard at Jessie just because they learned Saul was also a huge, and bigger, part of the operation? That just made them go hard at Saul, it doesn't change a single thing about their pursuit and punishment of everyone else. By that logic they would not have cared about Saul this entire time because Walter White was already dead. If they catch Jessie and HE says the operation would not have worked without HIM, they wouldn't shorten Saul's sentence.

---------------------------------------

"The world is before you and you need not take it or leave it as it was when you came in." - James Baldwin

  

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allStah
Member since Jun 21st 2014
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Tue Aug-16-22 08:16 AM

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560. "Everyone else is off the hook because they are dead,"
In response to Reply # 558
Tue Aug-16-22 08:17 AM by allStah

          

and Jesse pretty much had an immunity deal with Hank on the table, because
he gave up the entire operation on video tape. Marie knew that, because he was
under protection at their house.

Plus Saul former secretary told him over the pay phone that the FBI was still hot for him,
which surprised Saul because it had been six years since he disappeared. She told him
that Skylar worked out a deal and that she worked out a deal, and since Jesse was MIA(
she didn’t know that Jesse was Hank’s witness), he was the only one that was left to
pin everything on.

That’s how everyone else got off.


ALL HAIL THE KING of LOSING: LEBRON
Bulls | Bears | White Sox | Yankees | Notre Dame | Illinois | Chelsea | Real Madrid

  

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Sofian_Hadi
Member since Jan 03rd 2003
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Tue Aug-16-22 08:57 AM

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562. "I dont agree with Jesse having immunity "
In response to Reply # 560
Tue Aug-16-22 08:59 AM by Sofian_Hadi

          

He openly admitted to murdering someone by shooting them in the face. Hank is dead. They would have zero reason giving Jesse immunity now that he is the biggest fish left....and everyone else is either dead or locked up now. I would think Skylar got immunity by giving up bodies and any other information. Jesse has no cards left to play. He would simply pay for his crimes.

---------------------------------------

"The world is before you and you need not take it or leave it as it was when you came in." - James Baldwin

  

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allStah
Member since Jun 21st 2014
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Tue Aug-16-22 10:00 AM

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567. "I highly doubt that, since everything was taped."
In response to Reply # 562
Tue Aug-16-22 10:21 AM by allStah

          

Plus not only did he give up the inner workings of Walter White’s drug empire, he also
led them to his money, and had valuable information in regards to the Mexican drug cartel. And again, Marie knew all this, and she knew Hank was able to catch Walt because of
Jesse’s assistance.

When Hank caught Walt, he immediately called Marie and told her, and Jesse was
with him…This was all before Hank was killed…..

No doubt in mind that Jesse would have gotten some type of deal for immunity, or
a really short prison sentence….And Jesse killing a Meth Chemist ( basically another criminal)
isn’t something that couldn’t have been looked over or swept under the rug…..

Jesse knew everything on Gus, Mike, Saul, the Mexican drug cartel, and that arian brotherhood drug cartel….plus Lydia’s involvement and overseas drug associations.

Jesse was sitting on a goldmine of information and knowledge which would have gotten
a very good deal.



ALL HAIL THE KING of LOSING: LEBRON
Bulls | Bears | White Sox | Yankees | Notre Dame | Illinois | Chelsea | Real Madrid

  

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Mynoriti
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Tue Aug-16-22 05:56 PM

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581. "The nazis had Jesse's confession tape though"
In response to Reply # 567


  

          

Hank and Gomie were working Jesse off the books, they hadn't reported any of it.

After the Aryans killed them, they raided Hank's house and got the tape. They were watching it at their compound and laughing at him. They were gonna kill Jesse for being a rat and Todd stopped them (he wanted Jesse to cook the blue to score points with Lydia)

  

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allStah
Member since Jun 21st 2014
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Tue Aug-16-22 09:40 PM

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587. "Damn. That’s right."
In response to Reply # 581


          

I forgot all about that. They were sitting around laughing about it.
I remember that episode.

ALL HAIL THE KING of LOSING: LEBRON
Bulls | Bears | White Sox | Yankees | Notre Dame | Illinois | Chelsea | Real Madrid

  

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Cold Truth
Member since Jan 28th 2004
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Tue Aug-16-22 10:37 PM

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589. "Chances are they found it at the compound though"
In response to Reply # 581


  

          

How they treat that information is another story, because it’s potentially a bad look for Hank, though it wouldn’t necessarily be hard to cover.

I think the tape is a toss up for those reasons. They may or may not have it, and it’s net value- given that Walt, Gus, et al are dead- may or may not work to the DEA’s advantage.

I can absolutely see the DEA burning the tape so they can burn Jesse to the ground, just to avoid Hank being shown as being even slightly less than straight & narrow.

I don’t think they give a fifth of a fuck about Jesse’s time in servitude either. I think the general consensus among the DEA would be that he deserved much worse.

  

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Mynoriti
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593. "yeah I thought about that. hard to say"
In response to Reply # 589
Wed Aug-17-22 12:30 AM by Mynoriti

  

          

Like with the laptop magnet thing, who knows if they just saw a bunch of video tapes that were porn and monster trucks and didn't think to really look. Maybe even tossed it. Or if they even still had it. A year or so had passed. Definitely a possibility tho. might have also been at Todd's place

  

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Mynoriti
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Tue Aug-16-22 05:34 PM

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579. "the Weebay comparison is weird, man "
In response to Reply # 546


  

          

like Jimmy was just a loyal soldier in the Kim Wexler crime family, taking the heat for some shit he had nothing to do with.

you're just salty about Kim not suffering lol

  

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dillinjah
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Mon Aug-15-22 10:27 PM

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549. "Great ending, though I didn't quite follow how the..."
In response to Reply # 0
Mon Aug-15-22 10:29 PM by dillinjah

          

prosecution was agreeable to a plea deal for 7 years in the 1st place.

Maybe lack of witnesses (Francesca aside), plus questionable faith in trying the case in front of a jury of his peers in Albuquerque?

Did I miss something?

  

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allStah
Member since Jun 21st 2014
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Mon Aug-15-22 10:46 PM

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552. "Remember Jimmy told the DA all he needed was one juror"
In response to Reply # 549
Mon Aug-15-22 11:16 PM by allStah

          

to believe him, just one, and everyone knows how good of a lawyer Jimmy
is. He didn’t want to take a chance on blowing a high profile case. That’s a career
ending situation….

But for Jimmy to eat everything and get 86 years, I don’t agree with how the show
closed. It just wasn’t believable from a court stand point. I know it’s a fictional show,
but the legal aspect of the show usually came with believability. No lawyer or advisory
lawyer would allow his client to incriminate himself like that.

Dude was even confessing to the judge about driving Howard to commit
suicide…which had nothing to do with the case, and had the Judge
confused as hell…because she had no idea who he was talking about.

The show just didn’t have a equitable(fair) ending to me.

ALL HAIL THE KING of LOSING: LEBRON
Bulls | Bears | White Sox | Yankees | Notre Dame | Illinois | Chelsea | Real Madrid

  

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Cold Truth
Member since Jan 28th 2004
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Mon Aug-15-22 11:07 PM

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555. "Is that really an agree/disagree proposition though? Spoilers"
In response to Reply # 552


  

          

I’m with you on this, for the record- but I think that’s the point of it.

Saul ate everything, because everyone but Jesse is dead.

Kim’s involvement was tangential at best, and his love for her drove him to make sure she took no hits for it.

And no, it wouldn’t be justice to let Kim rot for the sins of Walt, Gus, Mike, Lalo, Nacho, and Jesse.

But I think that inherent unfairness underscores the presence of an exponentially larger injustice:

Nobody really faced the consequences of their actions.

Jesse is the lone exception, and there’s a discussion to be had about whether or not the things that he had to endure are sufficient. I don’t think they are, but he went through enough that nobody should be screaming for his blood.

But nobody else faced genuine societal justice for the damage they caused.

Just Saul.

So the irony is, everyone else died a bloody death, while he gets to live, while essentially paying for the sins of monsters he enabled and, frankly, had a hand in creating.

  

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Brew
Member since Nov 23rd 2002
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Tue Aug-16-22 08:51 PM

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583. "Agreed. I also think the writers, rightfully, went a long way to ..."
In response to Reply # 555


          

... give Saul that moment of going back to being just Jimmy, and realizing he *did* have a soul despite all the evil he did and took part in and witnessed. I think that was important. Because I think deep down (I say this with some clarity as I've been simultaneously starting to rewatch the series throughout this final season) Jimmy was a person with a good heart who looked out for people, but is also someone who is deeply flawed and has scamming in his soul as well.

I just didn't buy that he would go out as this wholly evil, throw-his-ex-wife-under-the-bus, almost-murder-an-octogenarian monster that he almost became. He got right to that edge then Kim made him realize that there was a heart somewhere deep underneath all the bullshit, ego-driven stuff that led him to that point.

I think they nailed it. It may have been a more explosive ending had he gone out in a blaze of fire, but this ending was way more fitting for the character, overall IMO.

I'm so sad it's over.

----------------------------------------

"Fuck aliens." © WarriorPoet415

  

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Ashy Achilles
Member since Sep 22nd 2005
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Wed Aug-17-22 09:13 AM

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598. "I agree with all of this, especially the ending being fitting for the ch..."
In response to Reply # 583


          

  

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Cold Truth
Member since Jan 28th 2004
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Mon Aug-15-22 10:57 PM

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554. "Smoke, mirrors, and risk management. SPOILERS."
In response to Reply # 549


  

          

He presented a compelling argument that he was a victim too.

The critical moment came when the prosecutor asked if he thinks a jury would buy that.

Saul said he just needs one, and reminds him that a jury is a bit of a gamble.
The Mahue (however the fuck it’s spelled) story would have checked out, to a degree.
It’s why he mentioned him by name- it wasn’t some random, nameless, faceless person.
That gives at least a seed of credibility to the rest of it.

He’s also a relatively beloved figure in Albuquerque, in spite of things. It’s not a stretch to think one of those people wind up on his jury.

So Saul created the framework of reasonable doubt in the mind of the prosecution-and it’s clear he’s a formidable legal opponent.

I think all of that, like much of the things we see in this universe, is a stretch if applied to the world as we understand it. But I wouldn’t be shocked if there are real legal precedents that aren’t terribly far off.

  

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stravinskian
Member since Feb 24th 2003
12698 posts
Mon Aug-15-22 10:47 PM

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553. "I see Ozymandias is no longer the only TV ep with a 10.0 rating on IMDB."
In response to Reply # 0


          

That's a silly thing to pay attention to, and it'll likely change as more ratings come in. But I've always thought BCS is ultimately the better show, so it's always seemed a shame to me that it didn't get as much attention.

  

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Cold Truth
Member since Jan 28th 2004
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Mon Aug-15-22 11:18 PM

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556. "It took me awhile to really believe it was the better show"
In response to Reply # 553


  

          

Chicanery sealed the deal for me. Nothing in BB quite matches it.

And I think BCS does a far better job with it’s roster of secondary characters.

We had more reasons to care- and deeply- about more of these characters than we did those in BB, save for Jesse and the victims in their wake.

Heisenberg was for many a vicarious thrill ride, myself included. I was team Walt through the end, but there isn’t much of a moral debate to be had there.

BCS gave us more robust gradients, more shades of gray to ponder on all sides.

It’s a more thoughtful show.

I think much of that came from the experience of writing BB. I’d bet money that Kim is the direct result of the backlash Skyler received.

Where Skyler was the (understandably) requisite shrew for Walt, Kim was an equal, whose complicity grew and developed in ways Skyler was never allowed.

Yeah I’m just waxing now. But this is such an amazing show.

  

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Mynoriti
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Tue Aug-16-22 04:40 PM

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578. "It's still BB for me"
In response to Reply # 553


  

          

even though you may be correct. but BCS was always more intriguing to me the more it intersected with BB

even this ep's scene with Chuck reminded me how i preferred these last few seasons over the early ones.

BCS was absolutely harder to pull off and i completely see the arguments for it being better, but personal preference-wise, i still got BB

  

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Brew
Member since Nov 23rd 2002
24419 posts
Tue Aug-16-22 08:55 PM

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584. "I've also come around on thinking it's an overall better show than BB."
In response to Reply # 553


          

What seals it for me, in the big picture, is just how *challenging* it must've been and clearly was, for the writers to tie all the storylines together so flawlessly with the strings they had from BB. They did an absolutely MASTERFUL job of making it all flow together seamlessly.

For a long time I said BCS was more impressive, while BB was better. But I think I'm in the "BCS is better" camp now. At the very least they're totally even. Again I just find the difficulty of BCS to be so damn impressive. And that's in addition to how excellent the show is on its own merits, regardless of the ties to its parent series.

----------------------------------------

"Fuck aliens." © WarriorPoet415

  

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Cold Truth
Member since Jan 28th 2004
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Tue Aug-16-22 11:00 PM

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592. "I think the way they built so much tension, intrigue, and suspense"
In response to Reply # 584


  

          

For a group of characters whose fates were largely already known, was the master stroke of this.

If they don’t pull that off, this shit is dead on arrival.

But they fleshed out these characters and this world in such a way that almost said, “oh yeah, this is all leading to BB”. Chuck, HHM, Kim, they really built up a whole separate corner of this world.

The two-shows-in-one approach was incredibly well balanced. we sat and watched Saul and Kim screw over a whole goddamned bank, all sitting right in line with a surprisingly well crafted cartel backstory.

  

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Brew
Member since Nov 23rd 2002
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Wed Aug-17-22 08:51 AM

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596. "Exactly."
In response to Reply # 592


          

>RE: I think the way they built so much tension, intrigue, and suspense
>For a group of characters whose fates were largely already
>known, was the master stroke of this.
>
>If they don’t pull that off, this shit is dead on arrival.
>
>But they fleshed out these characters and this world in such a
>way that almost said, “oh yeah, this is all leading to
>BB”. Chuck, HHM, Kim, they really built up a whole separate
>corner of this world.
>
>The two-shows-in-one approach was incredibly well balanced. we
>sat and watched Saul and Kim screw over a whole goddamned
>bank, all sitting right in line with a surprisingly well
>crafted cartel backstory.

----------------------------------------

"Fuck aliens." © WarriorPoet415

  

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mrhood75
Member since Dec 06th 2004
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Tue Aug-16-22 02:27 AM

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557. "The real Saul Goodman was the friends we made along the way"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

Yeah, not a fan of that ending. I've really liked most of the rest of what the show did this final season, but the "Steal Big, Steal Little"/"Jersey Girl" ending that was the show's last half hour felted really forced.

IMHO, this show didn't need Jimmy doing an 11th hour stunt to purposely tank the deal that he had so brilliantly negotiated. Or reclaim his name. Or make peace with his dead brother. Or Kim to rediscover her love of the law and try to start helping people again. It rang hollow.

I know I'm going to be in the minority here. And that's fine. But I feel like this largely brilliant should have had a more interesting final statement than "The truth shall set you free."

-----------------

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Numba_33
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Tue Aug-16-22 07:31 AM

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559. "RE: The real Saul Goodman was the friends we made along the way"
In response to Reply # 557


  

          

>Yeah, not a fan of that ending. I've really liked most of the
>rest of what the show did this final season, but the "Steal
>Big, Steal Little"/"Jersey Girl" ending that was the show's
>last half hour felted really forced.
>
>IMHO, this show didn't need Jimmy doing an 11th hour stunt to
>purposely tank the deal that he had so brilliantly negotiated.
>Or reclaim his name. Or make peace with his dead brother. Or
>Kim to rediscover her love of the law and try to start helping
>people again. It rang hollow.

I think the tonal shift from making this a show about Jimmy/Saul/Gene breaking bad to then turn into a love story with him trying to reconnect with Kim is probably why you felt this way. Bringing heart into the last episode when the show largely was divorced of that sentiment felt a bit off to me.

>I know I'm going to be in the minority here. And that's fine.
>But I feel like this largely brilliant should have had a more
>interesting final statement than "The truth shall set you
>free."

In addition to what you said and what I chimed in with, the not one, not two, but three flashbacks and that god awful college football chant in the prison bus took me out the episode. Like I said, I don't want to harp on the negatives for this episode, so I'll keep my criticisms brief.

On the positive, I do like how Gene was caught from the get go. At least the show didn't try to pretend he was Harrison Ford from The Fugitive being able to constantly escape the police. That touch of realism was nice.

"Sean sparks like John Starks, nah, Sean ball like John Wall" - Rest In Power Forever Sean Price.

  

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DJR
Member since Jan 01st 2005
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Tue Aug-16-22 08:57 AM

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561. "there was a constant inner turmoil throughout the show"
In response to Reply # 559


  

          

between being motivated by money, greed, spite, and scams…..but there was a conscience and heart buried in there too.

It appeared that heart/conscience was gone when he fully transitioned to “Saul”, but the ending showed it was still in there to an extent.

Worked for me.

  

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mrhood75
Member since Dec 06th 2004
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Tue Aug-16-22 12:55 PM

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573. "But that's the thing...."
In response to Reply # 561


  

          


>It appeared that heart/conscience was gone when he fully
>transitioned to “Saul”, but the ending showed it was still
>in there to an extent.

The whole final episode boiled down to who was going to win, Jimmy vs. Saul.

But there wasn't much of Saul in Better Call Saul. Jimmy was Saul for the flash-forward at the end of "Fun and Games" and the negotiation scene in the finale. It requires watching BB to "know" Saul, and that honestly felt like a cheat.

And they had all these "flashback" to establish how Saul was always in it for the money. Except Saul was rarely, if ever, in it for the money for the majority of the six seasons. Even he was Gene/Viktor, he didn't pull the scams for the money, he did it because he couldn't face working at Cinnabon for the rest of his life and was pissed at Kim.

Maybe the ending would have made more sense if Gilligan and Gould had followed their original plan and had Jimmy become Saul early on. But they spent so much time with Jimmy (and Gene) that Saul was never really established.

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allStah
Member since Jun 21st 2014
9816 posts
Tue Aug-16-22 02:14 PM

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574. "Saul was already established."
In response to Reply # 573


          

He was established in BB, so there needed to be a focus on Jimmy/Gene.

We needed to know who/what Saul was pre-Saul, and we needed to know If Saul
was able to escape to a new life. We got the answers to all of it.

For me, the ending was a bittersweet ending that I wasn’t satisfied with. It was
anti-climatic,and falls into the hole on how the Sopranos ended.

ALL HAIL THE KING of LOSING: LEBRON
Bulls | Bears | White Sox | Yankees | Notre Dame | Illinois | Chelsea | Real Madrid

  

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Brew
Member since Nov 23rd 2002
24419 posts
Tue Aug-16-22 09:00 PM

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586. "Yep agreed - this is exactly what I was getting @ in replay #583."
In response to Reply # 561


          

----------------------------------------

"Fuck aliens." © WarriorPoet415

  

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Brew
Member since Nov 23rd 2002
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Tue Aug-16-22 08:58 PM

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585. "Haha yea I'm with you here."
In response to Reply # 559
Tue Aug-16-22 08:59 PM by Brew

          

>In addition to what you said and what I chimed in with, the
>not one, not two, but three flashbacks and that god awful
>college football chant in the prison bus took me out the
>episode. Like I said, I don't want to harp on the negatives
>for this episode, so I'll keep my criticisms brief.

Yep - those were my gripes as well. I would've been more sold on that scene had they just had the whole bus whispering or nudging people near them saying "yo that's the better call Saul guy" or something, with Saul smirking in his seat as he overheard them. The chant was corny.

I also agree that the flashbacks were a doing a little *too* much heavy-lifting here.

Those are small gripes like you said but I agree with them wholeheartedly.


>On the positive, I do like how Gene was caught from the get
>go. At least the show didn't try to pretend he was Harrison
>Ford from The Fugitive being able to constantly escape the
>police. That touch of realism was nice.

Yep - agreed here as well.

----------------------------------------

"Fuck aliens." © WarriorPoet415

  

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PROMO
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Tue Aug-16-22 08:58 AM

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563. "anyone complaining about the ending is trippin'. (spoilers)"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

when they showed his suits then his cinnabon uniform, then an empty hanger on some "what clothes go here" tease, it was OBVIOUS it was a prison uniform (not that i mind the obviousness).

y'all must not follow enough true crime shit. this is the way these stories almost always end.

for the people that go in hiding/on the run...they eventually get found, so this was the only real and appropriate way for this to end.

i mean, this story is trending on twitter RIGHT now: https://www.sfgate.com/sfhistory/article/mysterious-disappearance-of-william-hughes-17351393.php?IPID=SFGate-HP-CP-Spotlight

he wasn't walking away from this scott free. that's not how it goes.


  

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mrhood75
Member since Dec 06th 2004
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Tue Aug-16-22 10:34 AM

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571. "The ending was pretty anti-True Crime"
In response to Reply # 563
Tue Aug-16-22 10:37 AM by mrhood75

  

          

By issue with the finale wasn't that he got caught, but the pollyanna ending they went with.

Saul takes everything that he learned in the past six seasons (and three and a half seasons of Breaking Bad) and negotiates himself a sweetheart deal that gives the government a nominal win. Because, as the show has demonstrated, both Jimmy McGill and Saul Goodman are really good lawyers.

Then, while about to close this sweetheart deal, he gives a rousing speech, because Kim has shown him the True Meaning of Christmas and he's done worshiping at the altar that is the false God that is the Almighty Dollar.

So instead of going to prison for seven and a half years, he'll be there for 86 years. But it's okay, because he has a clear conscience and he loves his dead brother. And being Saul served some purpose, because it's ensured that no one will hurt him prison, because the inmates love him for the person he isn'T anymore.

Meanwhile, Kim faces no real consequences besides working a boring job in Florida for five years and the vauge idea that Howard's widow may sue her.

Peace on Earth and good will towards everyone.

**BARF***

The show spent six seasons creating these complex characters with complex motivations, and they ended the series with the lowest hanging fruit.

-----------------

www.albumism.com

Checkin' Our Style, Return To Zero:

https://www.mixcloud.com/returntozero/

  

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Cold Truth
Member since Jan 28th 2004
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Tue Aug-16-22 04:38 PM

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577. "I think there are a handful of potential endings that would have made se..."
In response to Reply # 571


  

          

I think this is one of them.

I don't see how Kim showed him the meaning of Christmas.

I read that situation as, he thought he was holding a trump card to, as he said earlier, wind up on top, as always.

Then they dropped the bomb on him: Kim had already confessed.

Which means she was in potential danger, well beyond the wrath of Howard's widow.

Sure, part of this equation is that she set an example.

But the lion's share, imo, is saving Kim from herself. Frankly, her confession could have implicated her to at least some degree in the rest of it. Because Saul's involvement predates Walt- as does hers.

We saw scenes of Jimmy/Saul/Gene pondering their collective mistakes and regrets. After Chuck, it's crystal clear that the person he loved most was Kim- and she was the only person who truly believed in him, enough to invest herself in him.

So yeah, it makes plenty of sense that Saul decided to just own his dirt in a way that would free Kim from potential collateral damage, give closure to the widows of Hank and Gomey, and, yes, try to be the sort of person the best version of Kim could love.

I don't see how this ending is any less complex than any other potential ending. I also don't see the need for Kim to suffer too- which is something Jimmy would absolutely agree with. I think the decision for him to shed Saul- and all the trappings of that persona- makes all the sense in the world.

That said, I think there are two-three credible endings here. I still wanted Victor and Giselle drinking from a pineapple on a beach somewhere. But this one also works IMO.

  

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PROMO
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Tue Aug-16-22 05:41 PM

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580. "exactly. SPOILERS"
In response to Reply # 577


  

          

this write up nailed what you're saying.

https://www.theringer.com/better-call-saul/2022/8/16/23308171/better-call-saul-season-6-episode-13-series-finale-recap

  

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mrhood75
Member since Dec 06th 2004
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Wed Aug-17-22 01:57 AM

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594. "I re-watched it and... nan, man."
In response to Reply # 577


  

          

Kim was never in any danger from the Feds. When he specifically asks his lawyer on the plane, the lawyer tells him that the Feds are probably going to sit on it, but Howard's wife is looking for an attorney. No matter what he says/doesn't say is going to help her with that.

So his big speech ends up being a result of the "lesson" he learned by Kim making the affidavit. And what Chuck told him about being able to go back and change his path. Which was also heavy-handed as well. Because, you know, fuck Chuck.

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Checkin' Our Style, Return To Zero:

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Cold Truth
Member since Jan 28th 2004
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Wed Aug-17-22 10:18 AM

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599. "Oakley's just guessing IMO. "
In response to Reply # 594


  

          

>Kim was never in any danger from the Feds. When he
>specifically asks his lawyer on the plane, the lawyer tells
>him that the Feds are probably going to sit on it, but
>Howard's wife is looking for an attorney. No matter what he
>says/doesn't say is going to help her with that.

Maybe. But Oakley saying it, is not the Feds saying it.

It's a thread they *could* pull, which *could* become something.

I don't think Oakley's flippant statement while being stopped on his way to use the bathroom is a particularly concrete legal determination.

The potential danger to Kim still rings true, even with Oakley's comment.

Put it this way:

If the feds found just the right thread to also nail Kim too, do you think "But Oakley said you'd sit on it" would work as a defense?

>So his big speech ends up being a result of the "lesson" he
>learned by Kim making the affidavit. And what Chuck told him
>about being able to go back and change his path. Which was
>also heavy-handed as well. Because, you know, fuck Chuck.

Jimmy's speech was the result of the entirety of his life, not any one final catalyst.

One thing about this that's concrete, is that Jimmy's penchant for getting over on people is what lead him here.

I don't see how Chuck's comment was heavy in the slightest. I'd argue the opposite, in fact.
It was one small, short statement.

Hell, I've said variants of that to my daughter when she's sulking after losing her privileges because of something she did or wouldn't do.

The only thing heavy about that comment, would be Jimmy's memory of it, as he contemplates the full weight of his own actions. And that's what this was about: Jimmy accepting the consequence of those actions.

Putting this on some magical lesson from Kim ignores the gravity of everything that lead him here.

It ignores the irreparable damage done to the widows of the agents who were murdered.
It ignores the damage done to, yes, Howard's widow.
It ignores the fact that, regardless of what Kim became, he's what pulled her into this.
It ignores the life he could have lived.

All of which we see here. So I don't see how it's a reasonable to conclude that this was just the result of Kim showing him the way. The final push, perhaps? Sure. It's part of the puzzle, absolutely.

But I think that take is a disservice to everything we got in this ep, much less the show. Jimmy's reasons were myriad.

  

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Brew
Member since Nov 23rd 2002
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Wed Aug-17-22 10:59 AM

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600. "Incredibly well said here."
In response to Reply # 599


          

>The only thing heavy about that comment, would be Jimmy's memory of it, as he contemplates the full weight of his own actions.

----------------------------------------

"Fuck aliens." © WarriorPoet415

  

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PROMO
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Wed Aug-17-22 11:26 AM

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602. "yeah, it doesn't have nothing to do w/ Kim ultimately."
In response to Reply # 599


  

          

it's Jimmy choosing to reclaim himself over Saul.

point blank, period.

people can dislike that if they want. *shrug*

  

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mista k5
Member since Feb 01st 2006
16414 posts
Tue Aug-16-22 09:23 AM

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564. "really good ***spoilers***"
In response to Reply # 0
Tue Aug-16-22 09:35 AM by mista k5

  

          

i am going to post this before reading anyones elses thoughts.

i was very satisfied with the finale. i think it really brought together the season. for me it explained why they spent so much time focused on the howard plot. we already knew it was a huge moment for jimmy and kim but this just showed it was possibly the most pivotal moment of their lives. which for anyone in real life would be a duh lol for me it also justified the time they spent showing gene doing the schemes with jeffy and buddy. there were a couple episodes where i got impatient during the season but as a whole i think it was great.

the time machine thing was a bit weird. i get that it showed us how jimmy doesnt really focus on regrets, or tries not to. what made it weird to me was the flashback to his brother and the book. was that something that was evident in the early seasons or did they just throw it in there to tie it up? lol i liked jesses scene last week and walters this week was cool too. i think both were better than the first one they did together.

i love how they managed to squeeze one more jimmy scheme in getting his sentence down to 7 years. he took the heat off kim in the that court scene right? he finally had some regret but definitely not redeemed. kim and jimmy definitely deserve each other. looks like jimmy is gonna live it up as much as possible with chapo and them lol

i want to rewatch a few episodes this season. im thinking ill watch recaps of earlier seasons then maybe rewatch this one in full. might then rewatch breaking bad.

  

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stravinskian
Member since Feb 24th 2003
12698 posts
Tue Aug-16-22 10:03 AM

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568. "The book wasn't in previous seasons, but they peppered it through this o..."
In response to Reply # 564


          


The two examples I most remember are that it was prominently on a table in the montage at Saul's house that opened the season. So it was on his mind when Heisenberg collapsed. It was also on Jimmy's bedside table in the apartment he shared with Kim. So he was thinking about it as they were setting up Howard Hamlin as well.


I'm honestly gonna get myself a copy of that book and read it now. By complete coincidence I just got a copy of a slightly more obscure Wells novel, The World Set Free. Now I think I'm gonna have to read The Time Machine first. (Though I also like to think that maybe Jimmy never even read the book. Maybe he just liked the idea of a time machine, wanted to engage with the concept, but could never bring himself to do it.)

  

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Ashy Achilles
Member since Sep 22nd 2005
4550 posts
Wed Aug-17-22 08:50 AM

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595. "And he missed an opportunity to discuss this with Chuck of all people"
In response to Reply # 568


          

  

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stravinskian
Member since Feb 24th 2003
12698 posts
Tue Aug-16-22 09:49 AM

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566. "SO sweet."
In response to Reply # 0
Tue Aug-16-22 10:07 AM by stravinskian

          

-- Combo

That shit is CHOICE, yo. Better than ever.

-- Pete

Tight! Tight, tight, tight, tight, tight!

-- Tuco



It's a shame that the lines that are bouncing around in my head right now are from Breaking Bad. But Breaking Bad had all the drug references (at least, all the drug references in dialogue, as opposed to subtext). These shows (and the movie) have been like a drug for me. But unlike normal addictions, I got a satisfying conclusion that leaves everything perfect and I don't want a single bit more. As far as I'm concerned, they landed this thing perfectly. It's all over now except for the years of rewatching and reanalysis. I expect many of those.

As I watched the episode, I had to stop myself about ten times from grabbing my phone and commenting about every great little thing. Now I don't even remember most of what I was tempted to comment about. It's all just melted into a complete whole in my mind. I'm sure it'll come back to me.

But what I'm thinking about right now are the time machine scenes. I just finished listening to the last (regular) episode of the BCS Insider podcast, and Gould noted that those scenes were inspired by A Christmas Carol. We had the ghost of Jimmy past (the scene with Chuck), the ghost of Jimmy present (the scene with Mike), and the ghost of Jimmy future (the scene with Walt). I like that idea.

But more than that, and I haven't seen any of the reviews talking about this, I loved the way that those scenes let Jimmy say what his real regrets are, in such a way that the other characters thought he was fucking around and blowing off his own weighty question, while we viewers could see the real regret he was contending with underneath. Or at least that's what I want to think was happening.

When he told Mike that the day he'd change in his past was in 1965, I was sure he was gonna say that was the first time he swiped money from his dad's cash drawer. (If I have my years right, and I really hope I do, Jimmy was seven years old in 1965.) The show never gave us a clear indication about whether Chuck's suspicions were true, but I read that moment with Mike as a wordless confession so powerful that they'd be coming back to it for the rest of the episode. They didn't need to.

When he told Walt that his regret was a slip-and-fall scam that paid his way through bartending school, I was sure he was gonna say he wishes he could tell himself that the slip and fall scams were the start of a bad choice road (he hadn't heard about the bad choice road yet, but I have, so I'm gonna call it that).

And I don't know what to say yet about the scene with Chuck. Maybe that scene broke the pattern, maybe it was a little subtler and I haven't seen it yet. Was his regret that he enabled Chuck's psychosis when he should have done the harder work of helping him get through it? That's what I'm thinking right now, but I'm sure I'll get a different idea each time I see it. Anyway, it was also lovely that that's where The Time Machine (the Wells novel) entered into the story. The same book that kept reappearing throughout the season and well into Jimmy's later life. Let's not forget that the only warm memory we ever saw of Jimmy and Chuck's childhood was a scene of Chuck reading a fantasy novel to his adoring younger brother.


Jesus, now this thing has got me thinking about my regrets. I'm getting emotional, commenting on OKP about a TV show.

God damn it was a good TV show, though.

  

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soulfunk
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Tue Aug-16-22 12:38 PM

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572. "It was perfect. "
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

Absolutely perfect ending. Some of the best acting in the series.

In this universe we got all the possible endings of a life of crime. Dead on your own terms (Walt), being killed by a rival (tons of characters), escaping to start a new life (Jesse), getting away but living with regrets and possible future consequences (Kim), and going to prison for some HARD time (Jimmy).

  

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Mynoriti
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Tue Aug-16-22 04:33 PM

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576. "really satisfying wrap-up. also so bittersweet"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

like, this universe is over over now? hard to wrap my head around there not being more to come.

i kinda went into the last couple seasons thinking if we didn't get a full Gene episode, we'd possibly get a movie or limited series, but obv the last stretch of this season killed that idea. I don't see another story that needs to be told here, but it still bums me out there isn't more. I miss even the idea of looking forward to it.

interested in what Gilligan/Gould do next.

  

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Cold Truth
Member since Jan 28th 2004
44843 posts
Tue Aug-16-22 06:24 PM

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582. "Honestly, I could do with a limited series about Jimmy’s prison exploi..."
In response to Reply # 576


  

          

Because I’m certain he’ll be running that shit inside of a month.

If you’ve ever read The Brethren, by John Grisham, it’s clear that the ending is begging for a good, long look at Prison Jimmy’s doubtless legendary existence.

They said this is it though. And that’s a hard pill to swallow.
But there’s plenty left to tell, IMO.

  

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allStah
Member since Jun 21st 2014
9816 posts
Tue Aug-16-22 10:01 PM

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588. "All in all, it was fun guys."
In response to Reply # 0


          

Coming together and sitting on the virtual coach to discuss and debate
each episode of the show made for good messageboard camaraderie.
It was friendly. It was fun and it was entertaining.

I’m a one show type of guy. I find a really good show to watch, and then I focus on that
show until it runs it course.

From the sopranos, to the wire, to the leftovers, to true detective, to breaking bad,
and now to Better Call Saul, I only allow myself to be consumed by intelligent,
entertaining television.

I don’t see anything else out there that is worth watching…so I have to wait for the
next great show.



ALL HAIL THE KING of LOSING: LEBRON
Bulls | Bears | White Sox | Yankees | Notre Dame | Illinois | Chelsea | Real Madrid

  

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Cold Truth
Member since Jan 28th 2004
44843 posts
Tue Aug-16-22 10:45 PM

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590. "Yep. I think BCS is a top tier that goes head up with anything. "
In response to Reply # 588


  

          

Far as the next great show, that’s a hard one.

I think the landscape is littered with “very good”- which only makes something like Better Call Saul stand out that much more.

We can bicker and fuss about the end, or particular creative decisions. But the only reason we’re even picking at those choices, is because we care about what happens, to whom, in what ways, and for what reasons.

And we only care about those things so passionately, this deep into it’s run, because they hot so many home runs in the process. Because it’s not a personal classic, it’s a standard bearer.

  

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wrecknoble
Member since Mar 15th 2005
2276 posts
Wed Aug-17-22 09:12 AM

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597. "this is my M.O. for shows too - I rarely get caught up in the zeitgeist"
In response to Reply # 588


  

          

but I'm thinking of giving The Bear a chance as my next watch - something that's a bit different in style and tone from BCS

---

Frisson Radio | Saturdays 6-8 PM EST | 89.5 FM (Toronto) | www.ciut.fm
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Mynoriti
Charter member
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Wed Aug-17-22 11:16 AM

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601. "yeah for sure"
In response to Reply # 588


  

          

There's lots of good TV out there these days, but not only was this top of the food chain, but right now it's hard to find the combo of show that is not only so good for discussion, but is also still running week to week... and is watched by enough people here lol

  

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DJR
Member since Jan 01st 2005
18638 posts
Wed Aug-17-22 02:35 PM

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603. "It’s been in my mind that this might be the last one"
In response to Reply # 601


  

          

>There's lots of good TV out there these days, but not only
>was this top of the food chain, but right now it's hard to
>find the combo of show that is not only so good for
>discussion, but is also still running week to week... and is
>watched by enough people here lol
>

Was thinking about that throughout this last season….could be the last show that I watch on TV as it airs, and then both text with people and talk on message boards about. And if so….damn, I’ll really miss that.

Not a fan of having the entire new season available at once to stream or binge. Also am a quality over quantity guy….most shows just don’t do it for me and I give up on them. The few that I truly get into, I want to rewatch, read about them, talk about them, etc.

  

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Mynoriti
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Wed Aug-17-22 03:48 PM

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604. "i love to binge stuff but i hear you"
In response to Reply # 603


  

          

there's something special about the shared experience that's fading. Even with Saul, half the people who might normally watch are just waiting for whenever it will drop on netflix.

there are shows to a lesser degree will spark conversation. Idk how many people will be on House of Dragon.
Succession is a great show for discussion, but it's a smaller audience. Yellowstone does great numbers and i like it, but there's really not much to talk about.

  

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Sofian_Hadi
Member since Jan 03rd 2003
5628 posts
Thu Aug-18-22 09:15 AM

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605. "Did you ever watch Mad Men?? Halt and Catch Fire??"
In response to Reply # 588


          

I'm the same way. I find one show and get consumed until i finish it.

---------------------------------------

"The world is before you and you need not take it or leave it as it was when you came in." - James Baldwin

  

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stravinskian
Member since Feb 24th 2003
12698 posts
Thu Aug-18-22 09:37 AM

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606. "Halt and Catch Fire was such a great show. Criminally undervalued."
In response to Reply # 605


          


People seem to talk about it more now than when it was on the air.

I might rewatch that now that I can't look forward to a new Saul every week.

  

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Sofian_Hadi
Member since Jan 03rd 2003
5628 posts
Fri Aug-19-22 09:06 AM

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608. "I just started Season 1 again. It aged very well. "
In response to Reply # 606


          

I'm not sure if it got lost under the (much deserved) juggernauts of Mad Men and Breaking bad....while AMC also had the rating monster The Walking Dead....but re-watching Halt and Catch Fire, i'd put it up there with Mad Men and Breaking Bad. It just came out at the completely wrong time. I think it'd be huge if it was on right now.

---------------------------------------

"The world is before you and you need not take it or leave it as it was when you came in." - James Baldwin

  

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Cold Truth
Member since Jan 28th 2004
44843 posts
Tue Aug-16-22 10:50 PM

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591. "Also, I have to give it up to everyone. There are so many great takes."
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

This thread was a buffet, brimming with food for thought, takes piping hot, ice cold, and lukewarm, insight, perspectives, and brainstorming.

People were catching small details left and right, sharing outside takes and breakdowns.

I get that this is all standard fandom shit. But this was a particularly gratifying companion to the show.

Well done.

  

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Sofian_Hadi
Member since Jan 03rd 2003
5628 posts
Fri Aug-19-22 09:08 AM

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609. "Yeah. This thread was entertainingly bi-polar"
In response to Reply # 591


          

I even look at some of my first replies and think "damn, why was i so angry? Why didnt i just trust the process of creators who have proven they know what they're doing?"

I think it was my fear of a Game Of Thrones event. The creators just losing their way out of nowhere.

---------------------------------------

"The world is before you and you need not take it or leave it as it was when you came in." - James Baldwin

  

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Nodima
Member since Jul 30th 2008
15302 posts
Fri Aug-19-22 11:12 PM

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610. "Prestige/event series or otherwise, Thrones is prolly gonna loom a while"
In response to Reply # 609
Fri Aug-19-22 11:22 PM by Nodima

  

          

It was already hard to count the shows on one hand that, even if their final seasons were great, had equally great finales. It'd be cool if audiences could put themselves in the writers/directors/actors shoes a little more but I also get it. Every network show had to end with some kind of "set the cap on the hat stand" moment, even the late bloomer procedurals that felt like flirting with the beginnings of prestige TV like Boston Public or The Practice.

Seinfeld and Friends put the creators' idea of their characters ahead of the audience way before that was cool (I hate admitting knowing Friends lore these days, but without Rachel getting off her plane to be with Ross that last season really tried to poison the well), Sopranos was fascinating but weird, Six Feet Under and The Wire pioneered capping a weird season with stunning final scenes, Lost, Dexter and How I Met Your Mother left fans feeling...everything and nothing all at once...?

Even Breaking Bad, of which I'm a member (edit: for whatever reason I scan these big posts AFTER posting them - I mean I just found the Nazis and the gun in the trunk of it all a little beyond the pale, obviously the individual episodes were incredible), felt like it had an incredible final season culminate in some weird choices to stoke action or emphasize themes. Hell, if I were a tattoo guy with no inclination for aesthetics I'd have a bad Mad Men tattoo somewhere on me but Don Draper buying the world a Coke might be the weirdest punctuation on a show I've ever seen!

It's been long enough now that this seems like a symptom of the TV format generally, or at least long format works like it. I can't say I've ever nitpicked the end of a movie the way I do a TV show - that's what the second act is for! - but I also don't remember getting so worked up about similarly long formats like books or video games. I never got into the digital book thing so maybe this is changing or will change but there's something about physically putting a back cover to three, four, eight hundred pages that feels final.

Likewise, because a video game almost always culminates in a task that asks you to remember everything about it, no matter how oppressive or transient that last challenge is you're shaping it in some small way, overcoming it whether disappointing or not. You get to process it tactilely. It's still remarkable enough if a video game makes you want anything at all from its story, let alone feel inspired to critique how it justified its final combat or puzzle challenge - that being said, a decade on I'd rather discuss how The Last of Us' final gameplay segment is a well intentioned but huge misfire than any of its superlative wins that more than justify the upcoming HBO adaptation.

TV shows still seem to own this really exclusive space in longform visual storytelling where you don't get to end it, and more importantly often don't want it to be ended. The writers or the producers cut off the spigot and leave the audience wanting more, even the smart-marks that know a show's time has come. Because the show never seemed like it would end until it suddenly did, the show will almost always fuck it up in fans' eyes.

While typing this dumb-ly long response out I pulled out Sepinwall and MZ-S' "TV: The Book" at one point just to scan the chapters; excusing the many shows I haven't seen or didn't give enough of a chance, I think this is the list of unequivocally satisfying show endings:

Parks & Recreation
Freaks & Geeks
Cheers
The Larry Sanders Show
M*A*S*H

I'm a little fucked up so there's probably a niche show I'd love to nominate, but said show also probably got canceled and didn't satisfyingly end so much as disappear. (Edit 2: Weirdly, it seems comedies are kinda GREAT at endings sometimes: I'd nominate New Girl as well, and then get super sweaty about how absolutely white these five/six shows on my list are)

And I'd totally get the argument for slotting a Breaking Bad, Mad Men, Wire, Saul - hell, Sopranos, Deadwood, Firefly, ER - into that list too, but my point stands that the better a show is, even the best ending almost always lets viewers down at the time.

TL;DR: Of COURSE you expected a Thrones Level Event (© Busta Rhymes), TV trained us to think that way.


~~~~~~~~~
"This is the streets, and I am the trap." � Jay Bilas
http://www.popmatters.com/pm/archive/contributor/517
Hip Hop Handbook: http://tinyurl.com/ll4kzz

  

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Sofian_Hadi
Member since Jan 03rd 2003
5628 posts
Mon Aug-22-22 04:00 PM

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612. "Did you watch the Deadwood movie??"
In response to Reply # 610


          

I actually liked how they ended that show, when finally given the chance to make the movie.

---------------------------------------

"The world is before you and you need not take it or leave it as it was when you came in." - James Baldwin

  

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Nodima
Member since Jul 30th 2008
15302 posts
Tue Aug-23-22 03:03 PM

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613. "It fucked me up. I loved it. I get why it wasn't for everyone"
In response to Reply # 612
Tue Aug-23-22 03:06 PM by Nodima

  

          

Because it was very obviously a 2 hour 4th season so it was completely uninviting to newbies and casuals, but I was fighting back both happy and sad tears throughout.


I'm somebody who's really, really allergic to blatant fan service too even for things I'm in the bag for but I thought they did a really good job of focusing on wrapping things up rather than a bunch of "remember this?!" platitudes even with the flashbacks.


But all the same, season 3 was cooking so hot it just doesn't feel right that it didn't get a full 4 or 5 seasons in its prime.

~~~~~~~~~
"This is the streets, and I am the trap." � Jay Bilas
http://www.popmatters.com/pm/archive/contributor/517
Hip Hop Handbook: http://tinyurl.com/ll4kzz

  

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Sofian_Hadi
Member since Jan 03rd 2003
5628 posts
Wed Aug-24-22 09:03 AM

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614. "I have to think HBO regrets cancelling Deadwood"
In response to Reply # 613


          

after seeing what a cult hit it became. I'd imagine that's why they allowed the creator to do a movie so many years after the series ended. DVD/Blu Ray sales, streaming revenue, etc all lend themselves better to a completed series. I give HBO credit for righting a wrong as best they could.

---------------------------------------

"The world is before you and you need not take it or leave it as it was when you came in." - James Baldwin

  

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stravinskian
Member since Feb 24th 2003
12698 posts
Thu Aug-18-22 12:25 PM

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607. "Oh God that thing on his lapel in the court scenes..."
In response to Reply # 0


          


I had no idea what that was until some trashy google-recommended headline reminded me that in Breaking Bad everyone (except Walt) wore a blue ribbon for a while after the plane collision. And Saul wore one as he was briefly trying to organize a class action against the airlines. It's the perfect Saul Goodman accessory! Emotionally manipulative and completely insincere.

  

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Beamer6178
Member since Jan 09th 2006
6379 posts
Sun Aug-21-22 12:41 PM

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611. "We will never look at New Mexico the same again"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

The BB Universe really put this place on the map. Far beyond cactus and tumbleweeds, the stories, stories, stories.

As others have said above, it is incredibly difficult to take a prequel, where you are already aware of how most major characters fare, and make it compelling, suspenseful, and tense, while exploring an entirely different aspect of the story. BCS took the most interesting aspects of BB and fully built them out, in the end going far deeper in character development than BB ever did. Which had to be done really, since we know how this ends (for the most part).

The choice of black/white, really gray, for the "present time" was masterful since no character's story can be told without shades of gray.

Jimmy was not a violent man so a violent death didn't seem to fit. The notion of "justice" is so far removed from the fallout that 86, 106, 206, and definitely not 7, could accurately convey or capture what transpired. regardless of Walt and Jimmy trying to take full responsibility, everything was a series of interdependent relationships, actions, and consequences, which brought everything to the cataclysmic conclusion(s). it's easy to pin the rap on a person but it's never actually that simple.

i find at the end, the idea of "freedom" most compelling. despite being deprived of his legal freedom, Jimmy will live a more fulfilling rest of days than Gene was, after getting away with it.

farewell to a great run.

  

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stravinskian
Member since Feb 24th 2003
12698 posts
Tue Sep-13-22 07:27 PM

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615. "Chicanery!"
In response to Reply # 0
Tue Sep-13-22 07:35 PM by stravinskian

          

Maybe next year. Or maybe I tempted fate when I watched Goodfellas last weekend.

That said, I read somewhere this morning that Better Call Saul is 0 for 46 at the Emmys. No wins in 46 nominations. That must be a record. And I guess it's the kind of record that a great show should have.

  

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