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Subject: "We Own This City - David Simon HBO Series (2022)" Previous topic | Next topic
Mynoriti
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Fri Mar-18-22 11:40 AM

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"We Own This City - David Simon HBO Series (2022)"


  

          

April 25th
Can't wait!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9tOz3dn3vuU

  

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Topic Outline
Subject Author Message Date ID
I’m all in on anything David Simon
Mar 18th 2022
1
did you watch Plot Against America?
Mar 18th 2022
2
      I did not actually
Mar 18th 2022
3
           .
Apr 26th 2022
6
Kicking this post to the first page
Apr 25th 2022
4
intriguing start
Apr 26th 2022
5
i feel like the first episode of every Simon series
Apr 26th 2022
7
LOL yea I almost tuned out cuz I was so annoyed by that.
Jun 08th 2022
44
The timeline jumping is going to get somewhat annoying
Apr 28th 2022
8
6 Eps? They accomplished a lot with the Corner
Apr 29th 2022
10
Yea that was driving me crazy at first but by ep3 I'd caught on to the p...
Jun 08th 2022
45
Is the Wire or more Treme?
Apr 29th 2022
9
It's basically condensing The Wire's thesis and having no fun with it
May 03rd 2022
11
      They even got Young Moose to play himself
May 03rd 2022
12
           I should have know he was a real rapper
May 03rd 2022
13
The second episode felt so disjointed to me.
May 04th 2022
14
One of my best friend’s cousin is heavily featured in this series.
May 08th 2022
15
Your BF cousin IS Hersl, or a Hersl is on the production side?
May 09th 2022
16
The former. He’s literally called Hersl by everyone except his
May 09th 2022
17
      Yeah, I will, I just want to take in the show's version first.
May 10th 2022
18
      Catherine home now
May 10th 2022
19
RE: One of my best friend’s cousin is heavily featured in this series....
May 20th 2022
34
      You’re right. I made that comment after episode 1.
May 31st 2022
37
the influx of Wire actors is becoming a distraction
May 10th 2022
20
N'ah Man, I felt like a proud uncle seeing Lil Dukie and Doughnut
May 10th 2022
21
man, i'm trying to follow a story
May 10th 2022
22
      but even on Bosch
May 11th 2022
24
           I've heard Hector talk about this part, and some critics who've seen mos...
May 12th 2022
26
yep I'm wanting flash backs to Wire Characters/storylines
May 10th 2022
23
      Kenard's not walking through that door, LOL
May 12th 2022
25
           speaking of that he *did* do a Wire callback
May 19th 2022
33
Yoo, episode 4 is a monster
May 17th 2022
27
One of the scams the character pulled
May 19th 2022
28
      he *barely* tries to hide any of it (spoilers)
May 19th 2022
29
      None of those are what I'm referring to.
May 19th 2022
30
           oh that lol
May 19th 2022
31
                Yeah
May 19th 2022
32
                     I think he just took it.
Jun 06th 2022
40
      It wasn't in the book.
May 20th 2022
35
It's your turn muthafucka
May 30th 2022
36
Great season finale. The show accomplished it’s goal
May 31st 2022
38
3 episodes in and this show is amazing. No one else is doing this.
Jun 01st 2022
39
man, i gotta unfollow David Simon on twitter
Jun 06th 2022
41
Tangentially related, Denise "Fran" Boyd died last week
Jun 07th 2022
42
RIP
Jun 07th 2022
43
*Spoiler Alert*
Jun 08th 2022
46
RE: *Spoiler Alert*
Jun 09th 2022
47
it's a long ass read. I'm just starting it
Jun 15th 2022
51
It's less than 10 seconds, but this is the funniest part of the
Jun 09th 2022
48
Haha yea he played that part brilliantly.
Jun 09th 2022
49
      He was awesome to watch. I know the type.
Jun 09th 2022
50

makaveli
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Fri Mar-18-22 01:14 PM

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1. "I’m all in on anything David Simon"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

Show Me a Hero, Treme, and The Deuce are all very good aside from him being behind the best show ever.

“So back we go to these questions — friendship, character… ethics.”

  

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Mynoriti
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Fri Mar-18-22 01:39 PM

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2. "did you watch Plot Against America?"
In response to Reply # 1


  

          

might be my favorite thing he's done since the Wire

  

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makaveli
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3. "I did not actually "
In response to Reply # 2


  

          

I should check it out.

“So back we go to these questions — friendship, character… ethics.”

  

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Mynoriti
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Tue Apr-26-22 09:54 PM

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6. "."
In response to Reply # 3
Tue Apr-26-22 09:55 PM by Mynoriti

  

          

.

  

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Numba_33
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Mon Apr-25-22 02:31 PM

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4. "Kicking this post to the first page"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

since it will start tonight. I doubt I'll watch it tonight as I imagine my attention will be on the Celtics-Nets game, but I suppose that's why I have HBO Max so I can stream it on my own terms.

Hope this show lives up the standards of The Wire.

"Sean sparks like John Starks, nah, Sean ball like John Wall" - Rest In Power Forever Sean Price.

  

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Roadblock
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5. "intriguing start"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

glad to see familiar faces.

A lot is covered 1st episode. Can't wait for everything to develop

@GetoutTheroom
http://getouttheroom.podomatic.com
******************************************
https://twitter.com/Jayric

  

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Mynoriti
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Tue Apr-26-22 09:56 PM

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7. "i feel like the first episode of every Simon series"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

is spent pointing out people from the wire

shot out to Poot, Landsman, O-Dog, Marlo, Slim Charles.. and probably a couple others i missed.

that said, i liked the first episode

  

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Brew
Member since Nov 23rd 2002
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Wed Jun-08-22 11:34 AM

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44. "LOL yea I almost tuned out cuz I was so annoyed by that."
In response to Reply # 7


          

>is spent pointing out people from the wire
>
>shot out to Poot, Landsman, O-Dog, Marlo, Slim Charles.. and
>probably a couple others i missed.
>
>that said, i liked the first episode

----------------------------------------

"Fuck aliens." © WarriorPoet415

  

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Numba_33
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Thu Apr-28-22 07:18 AM

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8. "The timeline jumping is going to get somewhat annoying"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

but with only one season and six episodes available to tell the story, I somewhat understand why it has to be done. The first episode was pretty exposition heavy, but I'll will definitely tune in on a weekly basis as best as I can given the NBA playoffs are kicking off.

"Sean sparks like John Starks, nah, Sean ball like John Wall" - Rest In Power Forever Sean Price.

  

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Adwhizz
Member since Nov 12th 2003
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Fri Apr-29-22 07:21 PM

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10. "6 Eps? They accomplished a lot with the Corner"
In response to Reply # 8


  

          

so I've got faith in this being something special

just finished the first ep, chomping at the bit for the next ep

R.I.P. Loud But Wrong Guy
Dec 29th 2009 - Dec 17th 2017

  

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Brew
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Wed Jun-08-22 11:34 AM

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45. "Yea that was driving me crazy at first but by ep3 I'd caught on to the p..."
In response to Reply # 8


          

----------------------------------------

"Fuck aliens." © WarriorPoet415

  

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Buddy_Gilapagos
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Fri Apr-29-22 07:17 AM

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9. "Is the Wire or more Treme?"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          




**********
"Everyone has a plan until you punch them in the face. Then they don't have a plan anymore." (c) Mike Tyson

"what's a leader if he isn't reluctant"

  

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Nodima
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Tue May-03-22 04:38 AM

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11. "It's basically condensing The Wire's thesis and having no fun with it"
In response to Reply # 9
Tue May-03-22 04:50 AM by Nodima

  

          

That's not to say Simon/Pelecanos' grim pessimism doesn't allow for some humorous moments, but like The Corner this is a true story and they treat it like one.


Episode 2 opens with a conversation that's basically season 3 of The Wire pressed tight into two minutes.


It feels like home, which is a big bummer, but they know this beat and aren't fucking around.


If it shares anything with Treme, it's that the casting doesn't always feel 100% the way Corner/Wire/Generation Kill or even The Deuce did. But that could even out over six episodes and Bernthal/Charles/Mosaku kill it. And sometimes the "lesser" acting does feel more real, so it might just be something you have to settle into 'cause they're not taking a lot of creative liberties. I didn't know this story at ALL and whenever I'm curious about something, it's been pretty much exactly facts.


~~~~~~~~~
"This is the streets, and I am the trap." � Jay Bilas
http://www.popmatters.com/pm/archive/contributor/517
Hip Hop Handbook: http://tinyurl.com/ll4kzz

  

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Mafamaticks
Member since Jan 12th 2004
4667 posts
Tue May-03-22 09:55 AM

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12. "They even got Young Moose to play himself"
In response to Reply # 11


  

          

  

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Adwhizz
Member since Nov 12th 2003
40926 posts
Tue May-03-22 01:28 PM

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13. "I should have know he was a real rapper"
In response to Reply # 12


  

          

Dude's acting was pretty bad, so it makes sense

R.I.P. Loud But Wrong Guy
Dec 29th 2009 - Dec 17th 2017

  

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Numba_33
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Wed May-04-22 07:24 AM

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14. "The second episode felt so disjointed to me."
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

This definitely needed more than six episodes so that the storytelling could get fleshed out a bit and allow for the characters to breathe a bit. The scenes felt so choppy and rushed.

Even worse, some of the dialog was way too on the nose and felt expositional rather than being natural.

I'll definitely continue to watch this til the end mainly since there isn't much else to watch these days, but I'm not the biggest fan of this so far.

"Sean sparks like John Starks, nah, Sean ball like John Wall" - Rest In Power Forever Sean Price.

  

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Mignight Maruder
Member since Nov 30th 2003
7716 posts
Sun May-08-22 10:02 PM

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15. "One of my best friend’s cousin is heavily featured in this series. "
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

In fact, I’d say he’s the central protagonist. And they share the same last name; Hersl. I can assure you that my lifelong friend I’m in frequent contact with is NOTHING at all like his cousin.

For those not in the know, this series is dissecting real events and people. Incredibly corrupt police who have only exacerbated the issue of crime and mistrust of law enforcement in Baltimore. When the Wire was wrapping up, Baltimore was celebrating year end homicide numbers below 200 (still incredibly high, but encouraging trend). Since the Freddie Gray incident 5+ years ago, every year has been 300+ murders.

  

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Nodima
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16. "Your BF cousin IS Hersl, or a Hersl is on the production side?"
In response to Reply # 15


  

          

Either way that's some wild shit.


I think I said this in that earlier response about whether this show is more Wire or Treme, but as somebody who didn't know this story at all and is avoiding looking it up until after the show is over, I bet this is a particularly tough watch for DMV folks in the same way The Wire could be an odd sense of pride.


Even just reading/hearing Bernthal and Charles in particular talk about making this show, it feels like they felt a heavy need to make these characters feel real considering, well, they were real and this is what became of the streets they grew up on.


~~~~~~~~~
"This is the streets, and I am the trap." � Jay Bilas
http://www.popmatters.com/pm/archive/contributor/517
Hip Hop Handbook: http://tinyurl.com/ll4kzz

  

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Mignight Maruder
Member since Nov 30th 2003
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Mon May-09-22 07:33 PM

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17. "The former. He’s literally called Hersl by everyone except his "
In response to Reply # 16


  

          

immediate family. He grew up in East Baltimore (but moved to the burbs in early teen years), but is like 15-20 years younger than Dan Hersl. He’s one of my closest friends and I immediately got in contact with him after the 1st show. He’s obviously embarrassed, but he’s so far removed the situation. He doesn’t live in Baltimore either so it’s not like there’s a stigma associated with his last name where he currently resides. I can assure you though, he’s the complete opposite and abhors the shit his cousin did.

I only watched a few episodes of Treme so I can’t comment too much on that series. I love David Simon’s work, but I’ve only watched the Corner and the Wire in it’s entirety. I first watched the Corner way back in my senior year of high school (20+years ago). That series cuts the deepest. There’s a level of sincerity and rawness that’s hard to replicate. I like to revisit that one now and then. I recently rewatched all seasons of the Wire with my wife recently too, but I digress. I’d say this show is more like a documentary made for tv. Kind of like the OJ Simpson series from a few years ago, but less concerned with ratings.. It uses real people and events, but obviously has some creative license.

The show, as others mentioned, is very on the nose. The events are still pretty fresh. And although Hersl and others eventually were exposed and ridiculed by the media, it’s sickening how long and to what extent the abuse of power went unchecked. Sadly it took a bunch of white people OD’ing in the burbs to accidentally stumble on this particular case.

I went to college in the Baltimore area (early 2000s) and worked in downtown Baltimore for a few years. I remember there being mixed feelings on the show at the time. HBO wasn’t as readily accessible back then and I don’t believe the ratings were ever that high, but obviously a lot of people knew about it. Side note , but my wife’s best friend actually lived in the same condo as Snoop for awhile (post Wire days). My wife’s brother and his family, along with my father in law live in the city, so we visit often. I love Bmore and would love to see a resurgence, but don’t see it happening. I definitely think progress can be made, bud I don’t see Baltimore restoring its once dominant foothold among major US cities.

If you recall from the Wire, a central theme was the failure of institutions to protect the people they’re designed to serve. Baltimore still suffers from dysfunctional leadership. The former mayor (Catherine Pugh) committed fraud and is currently serving a 3 year bud. The district attorney, Marilyn Mosby, who was once seen as a rising star with major ambition, is under federal investigation and awaiting trial. Just look at the judicial system in it’s entirety. It’s hard to pin it on any one thing, but Baltimore is plagued by poor leadership.

I would do some research along with watching the series. It’s wild how much these cops got away with and the degree to which their actions were kept away from public scrutiny.

  

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Nodima
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Tue May-10-22 01:58 AM

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18. "Yeah, I will, I just want to take in the show's version first."
In response to Reply # 17


  

          

Kinda goes back to the weird little white kid I was that was so excited for The Wire I binged The Corner on HBO Demand, overcharging my parents' credit card, then bought the book to read and have kept it prominently placed wherever I am since. I was never much of a read the book before I saw the movie guy but I've definitely been a saw the TV show then read the book guy and with Simon's shows particularly I like being able to use the shows as a visual reference, from Homicide on.


I did read some overview articles and I've got some stuff bookmarked for after, but for now I just want to let this show be what it is and not worry about minor or major details they minimize, maximize or neglect/fabricate. Not enjoyable/engaging for me to watch TV that way.


All that said, appreciate the rest of your post, and in a more broad comment I'm a little saddened that this show, despite the two decades of The Wire propaganda, doesn't seem to be getting treated like must see TV out there.


~~~~~~~~~
"This is the streets, and I am the trap." � Jay Bilas
http://www.popmatters.com/pm/archive/contributor/517
Hip Hop Handbook: http://tinyurl.com/ll4kzz

  

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Mafamaticks
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Tue May-10-22 08:53 AM

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19. "Catherine home now"
In response to Reply # 17


  

          

  

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Numba_33
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Fri May-20-22 09:33 AM

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34. "RE: One of my best friend’s cousin is heavily featured in this series...."
In response to Reply # 15


  

          

>In fact, I’d say he’s the central protagonist. And they
>share the same last name; Hersl. I can assure you that my
>lifelong friend I’m in frequent contact with is NOTHING at
>all like his cousin.
>
>For those not in the know, this series is dissecting real
>events and people. Incredibly corrupt police who have only
>exacerbated the issue of crime and mistrust of law enforcement
>in Baltimore. When the Wire was wrapping up, Baltimore was
>celebrating year end homicide numbers below 200 (still
>incredibly high, but encouraging trend). Since the Freddie
>Gray incident 5+ years ago, every year has been 300+ murders.
>

For better or for worse, it appears Wayne Jenkins is the focal point of the series, not your best friend's cousin. I suspect the book this show is based off of goes into more detail on how low down and dirty the real life Hersl was, along with the other police involved.

"Sean sparks like John Starks, nah, Sean ball like John Wall" - Rest In Power Forever Sean Price.

  

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Mignight Maruder
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Tue May-31-22 11:40 AM

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37. "You’re right. I made that comment after episode 1. "
In response to Reply # 34


  

          

The arc of the show shifts the focus more heavily on Jenkins after ep 1. Hersl has been reported on heavily in the Baltimore Sun and definitely was top 3 for worst reputation and corrupt among the Baltimore city police.

  

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Mynoriti
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Tue May-10-22 11:29 AM

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20. "the influx of Wire actors is becoming a distraction"
In response to Reply # 0
Tue May-10-22 11:31 AM by Mynoriti

  

          

hey, there's Dookie, it's Herc, that's Donut.. wasn't this one of Marlo's guys...

there aren't enough episodes to settle in.. i'm kinda hoping not to see more Wire characters lol

  

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Adwhizz
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Tue May-10-22 07:48 PM

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21. "N'ah Man, I felt like a proud uncle seeing Lil Dukie and Doughnut"
In response to Reply # 20


  

          

All grown up and doing well


For some reason I could buy Marlo as a drug dealer but not as a cop. He just looks like a mean/nerdy high school principle

Wayne Jenkins seems like he'd be unbearable to hang around for long periods of time, even if he WASN'T trying to rob/arrest me

R.I.P. Loud But Wrong Guy
Dec 29th 2009 - Dec 17th 2017

  

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Mynoriti
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Tue May-10-22 08:23 PM

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22. "man, i'm trying to follow a story"
In response to Reply # 21


  

          

i don't need this many distractions.. and trying to figure out how many years its been since I've seen Duke. every time a new charater drops it pulls me out lol.

btw fuck Donut. i was never a fan of his whole cuddly car thief thing.

>All grown up and doing well
>
>
>For some reason I could buy Marlo as a drug dealer but not as
>a cop. He just looks like a mean/nerdy high school principle

Bosch definitely helped prep me for this.

>Wayne Jenkins seems like he'd be unbearable to hang around for
>long periods of time, even if he WASN'T trying to rob/arrest
>me

How great is Bernthal for a role like this. I don't even know exactly how to describe his kind of energy. He's such a master of this specific version of an amped, hyper-aggressive (even when he's calm) dick. I hate him.

  

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Numba_33
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Wed May-11-22 03:33 PM

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24. "but even on Bosch"
In response to Reply # 22


  

          

>>For some reason I could buy Marlo as a drug dealer but not
>as
>>a cop. He just looks like a mean/nerdy high school
>principle
>
>Bosch definitely helped prep me for this.

the character Jamie Hector played wasn't as square as this detective is. J. Edgar was was more smooth that this detective is. I'm assuming he's playing the role this way to serve as a counter to the corrupt detectives in the squad the show in based on.

On the one hand, I can understand the reason to have the character portrayed that way, but on the other hand, I'd like the character to be played with a bit more nuance.

"Sean sparks like John Starks, nah, Sean ball like John Wall" - Rest In Power Forever Sean Price.

  

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Nodima
Member since Jul 30th 2008
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Thu May-12-22 02:40 AM

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26. "I've heard Hector talk about this part, and some critics who've seen mos..."
In response to Reply # 24


  

          

I think he'll give a majority of people what they want later in the season based on what they've said.


HBO never does it but I feel like this show might've really benefited from just getting dumped onto Max all in one Netflix style. All these studios are trying to figure this shit out as some Netflix dumps feel incredible overwhelming while some HBO trickles feel like they lose momentum as they go and everything in between.


I never really developed a preference and am loving the show for what it is so far, but I wonder if people could've just cracked a bottle of Pinot on opening credits and scrambled for one more pour of gin & tonic half way through episode 6 if they'd be so nitpicky about this show.


Time will tell, I guess!


~~~~~~~~~
"This is the streets, and I am the trap." � Jay Bilas
http://www.popmatters.com/pm/archive/contributor/517
Hip Hop Handbook: http://tinyurl.com/ll4kzz

  

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Roadblock
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23. "yep I'm wanting flash backs to Wire Characters/storylines"
In response to Reply # 20


  

          

@GetoutTheroom
http://getouttheroom.podomatic.com
******************************************
https://twitter.com/Jayric

  

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Nodima
Member since Jul 30th 2008
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Thu May-12-22 02:11 AM

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25. "Kenard's not walking through that door, LOL"
In response to Reply # 23


  

          

I get why some people would have that problem but, dude, it's been 20 some years.

Some of these comments feel like wanting Anwan Glover to perform hits in his diner on The Deuce 'cause the pimps don't treat their girls right. Let Simon have his repertory players!

~~~~~~~~~
"This is the streets, and I am the trap." � Jay Bilas
http://www.popmatters.com/pm/archive/contributor/517
Hip Hop Handbook: http://tinyurl.com/ll4kzz

  

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Mynoriti
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Thu May-19-22 12:17 PM

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33. "speaking of that he *did* do a Wire callback"
In response to Reply # 25


  

          

Just not to Slim, but he did the Cutty backstory where he shoots BlackThought and calmly calls the cops to tell them.

>Some of these comments feel like wanting Anwan Glover to
>perform hits in his diner on The Deuce 'cause the pimps don't
>treat their girls right. Let Simon have his repertory
>players!

  

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Mynoriti
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27. "Yoo, episode 4 is a monster"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

damn

Bernthal is really killing this role. He's like a combo of Alonzo from Training day and Gerard Butler in Den of Thieves

just peak alpha scumbaggery.

  

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Numba_33
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Thu May-19-22 10:46 AM

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28. "One of the scams the character pulled"
In response to Reply # 27


  

          

left me dumbfounded. I don't want to spoil it for folks that haven't seen the episode yet, since watching it unfold without prior knowledge makes it more impactful.

Part of me want to read the book to know what Bernthal's character did to get away with the scam in question. Another part of me thinks I'm be highly disgusted once I get more insight.

"Sean sparks like John Starks, nah, Sean ball like John Wall" - Rest In Power Forever Sean Price.

  

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Mynoriti
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29. "he *barely* tries to hide any of it (spoilers)"
In response to Reply # 28


  

          

the plant at the beginning was super more than obvious (toss the car again).

then he calls his buddy like he's ordering postmates to bring a gun and drop it in a place where people have clearly looked over and over..

that last one was the most comedy when he's recording himself saying "is that over five thousand dollars? i must call this in because the law clearly states that any seizure over five thousa..."

dude's basically just trolling at this point lol.

i guess it was true that the real Jenkins was essentially untouchable after the Freddy Gray stuff. Other cops are like, yeah, but he brought us chicken.




>left me dumbfounded. I don't want to spoil it for folks that
>haven't seen the episode yet, since watching it unfold without
>prior knowledge makes it more impactful.
>
>Part of me want to read the book to know what Bernthal's
>character did to get away with the scam in question. Another
>part of me thinks I'm be highly disgusted once I get more
>insight.

  

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Numba_33
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30. "None of those are what I'm referring to."
In response to Reply # 29


  

          

The only clue I'll give is that it involves the Champagne Room.

"Sean sparks like John Starks, nah, Sean ball like John Wall" - Rest In Power Forever Sean Price.

  

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Mynoriti
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Thu May-19-22 11:31 AM

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31. "oh that lol"
In response to Reply # 30


  

          

I love the reaction of the other guys haha

  

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Numba_33
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32. "Yeah"
In response to Reply # 31


  

          

To keep it spoiler free, I'm hoping he just used handcuffs to incapacitate the person he robbed from.

It happened so fast from what I remember, so I doubt that's the case.

"Sean sparks like John Starks, nah, Sean ball like John Wall" - Rest In Power Forever Sean Price.

  

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Buddy_Gilapagos
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40. "I think he just took it. "
In response to Reply # 32


  

          

I mean, they weren't going to fight back.

or just grab the bag when she was looking.

Either it wasn't slick enough where he knew he had to get out.


The story is strange enough that it has to be true.


**********
"Everyone has a plan until you punch them in the face. Then they don't have a plan anymore." (c) Mike Tyson

"what's a leader if he isn't reluctant"

  

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Mafamaticks
Member since Jan 12th 2004
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Fri May-20-22 11:31 AM

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35. "It wasn't in the book. "
In response to Reply # 28


  

          

It didn't come out that he did that wild shit until court.



  

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rdhull
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Mon May-30-22 08:48 PM

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36. "It's your turn muthafucka"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

  

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Mignight Maruder
Member since Nov 30th 2003
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Tue May-31-22 12:24 PM

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38. "Great season finale. The show accomplished it’s goal"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

of telling the perverse details of police corruption in the BCPD. Sadly it took white kids OD’ing in the suburbs to stumble upon this revelation and gather enough investigation resources to bring this to light.

Baltimore hasn’t recovered since the Freddie Gay killing. I’m not exactly sure what can be done to heal those wounds and slowly restore some semblance of trust between the police and the many Baltimoreans living in high crime areas. When there’s 300+ people getting murdered on a yearly basis in a city with less than 600,000, there’s going to be innocent people killed and lots of trauma. I’d love to see Baltimore turn this around. I love the city. Most of my wife’s family lives there and we visit very often. This is a city that was once home to almost 1million residents and top 5 in the country annually for population. Bmore has so much potential. Hopefully there’s some sort of renaissance someday soon bc the city really has a lot to offer.

Maybe Simon has already done so, but I’d be interested in hearing what he thinks can realistically be done to fix Baltimore’s crime issues. I know he wants to decriminalize drugs, but that may not lead to less gun violence. I’d like to hear his thoughts and those of longtime community members who are invested in the community. I know one of the biggest obstacles is police reform which they’re trying to do, but seems to have backfired. *Some - not all - police really need to grow thicker skin and not act so indignant when they’re called out or criticized. I work in education and we’re scrutinized all the time. We still show up and put our students first. The residents have to police themselves too and strive for safer communities. I’m going off on a tangent here, but I think that’s what most David Simon projects make you do; lose faith in our institutions and look for better solutions.

  

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Buddy_Gilapagos
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39. "3 episodes in and this show is amazing. No one else is doing this. "
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

I was reluctant to watch this because I was thinking this would be a super slow , low action series like Treme (which I didn't finish so I may be wrong about that show). I was just remembering seasons of the wire, still my all time favorite show, where it would many episodes to get payoffs. I've been reluctant to even go back to watch the Wire because I am afraid it might be too slow.

It seems like David Simon solved for that issue (or am I the only one?) by cramming a shit ton into each episode. The pace is so fast that I can't step away to the kitchen to grab a drink and not miss something important.

And the pace has to be so fast because they are covering so much. A lot of people are saying this should have been a longer series. I think I disagree. I like that they had to be disciplined with the storytelling and that the series warrants a rewatch.

I keep thinking about this topic and series in lesser hands. It would so easy to make a series about corrupt cops and the justice department lawyers who exposed them. Instead, Simon is the only person out there who is really good at exposing how a system is corrupted from top to bottom where good people can't get shit done, average people ending up doing bad things and bad people thrive. The corruption is so to the core of the system, you would have to break it down completely and rebuild. David Simon is having a conversation on policing, crime, police brutality that is lightyears ahead how politicians and the media is discussing this topic.

It's the closest I've seen to long form journalism as television and I wish there was more of it. Can't wait for my work day to end so I can finish it.



**********
"Everyone has a plan until you punch them in the face. Then they don't have a plan anymore." (c) Mike Tyson

"what's a leader if he isn't reluctant"

  

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Mynoriti
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Mon Jun-06-22 01:09 PM

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41. "man, i gotta unfollow David Simon on twitter"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

i have so much respect for him, but seeing him spend so much time constantly engaging maga trolls on twitter is legit depressing.

  

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Nodima
Member since Jul 30th 2008
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Tue Jun-07-22 12:59 AM

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42. "Tangentially related, Denise "Fran" Boyd died last week"
In response to Reply # 0
Tue Jun-07-22 01:03 AM by Nodima

  

          

WaPo had a great obit I'll share here for those who missed it. More than anything, this reminded me that for as long as Simon and his crew have been at this investigation/exposure of Baltimore, their goal has been to not only humanize but embolden their subjects to run toward rather than away from what their experiences could help teach others. And they have a real knack for building lasting relationships with people that would otherwise be easy to exploit or straight up forget about once the Hollywood side of things fades into memory and the real work continues:


Denise Francine Boyd Andrews, drug counselor whose life was chronicled in ‘The Corner,’ dies at 65
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By Emily Langer
May 30, 2022 at 3:56 p.m. EDT

Denise Francine Boyd Andrews provided drug counseling, HIV education and other services in Baltimore. (Amy Davis/Baltimore Sun)

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Denise Francine Boyd Andrews, a central figure portrayed in the HBO miniseries “The Corner” who emerged from the underworld of drugs and crime depicted in the show to become an addiction counselor in Baltimore and a role model with a story of personal redemption, died May 3 at her home in Parkville, Md. She was 65.

Her brother, Stanley Boyd, confirmed her death and said he did not know the cause.

Mrs. Andrews, known to friends as Fran, devoted years of her life to the rehabilitation of people often cast aside as hopeless “junkies.” David Simon, an executive producer of “The Corner,” which aired on HBO in 2000, once told the New York Times that he did not “have many heroes left” but that Mrs. Andrews was one of them, and that her life was a testament to the truth that “everybody gets to write their endings.”

Simon, a former journalist who is also the creator of the acclaimed HBO drama “The Wire,” met Mrs. Andrews when he was reporting the book “The Corner: A Year in the Life of an Inner-City Neighborhood” (1997) with former homicide detective Edward Burns. The book became the basis of the 2000 HBO miniseries.

The “corner” of the show’s title referred to the drug market around the intersection of Fayette and Monroe streets in West Baltimore. When Simon and Mrs. Andrews first encountered each other in that neighborhood, Simon told the New Yorker magazine, she refused to speak him, assuming him to be an undercover police officer.

But over time, Mrs. Andrews opened up about her life and addiction, offering a window into the destruction that drugs had wreaked on her life, her family and the families around them.


By her own account, the Baltimore Sun reported, Mrs. Andrews first tried heroin when she was 23, the night of her sister’s funeral. She descended into a years-long dependence and into a state, she told the Times, in which “all your worst nevers come true.”

Her son De’Andre L. McCullough began selling drugs in his teens, and his father, Gary McCullough, died of an overdose in 1996. Their struggles became the focus of the book by Simon and Burns as well as the HBO miniseries, which won three Emmy Awards, including the prize for outstanding miniseries.

Mrs. Andrews, who was portrayed on-screen by Khandi Alexander, described the show as “good, on target,” even if it “brought back a lot of memories that I really didn’t want to go through again.”

“But then as time went on,” she told the San Jose Mercury News in 2000, “it showed me just how far I had come.”


In the mid-1990s, Mrs. Andrews entered recovery. She credited her turnaround in large part to her future husband, Donnie Andrews, a former heroin user who years earlier had turned himself in to Burns after killing a drug dealer and whose early life inspired the character of Omar Little in “The Wire.”

Michael K. Williams, Emmy-nominated actor who brought charming menace to ‘The Wire,’ dies at 54

Profoundly impressed by the way Donnie Andrews had reformed himself in prison, Burns introduced him to Fran, hoping the connection might show her a way forward in her own life.

Their relationship began with daily phone calls during Donnie Andrews’s incarceration and continued after he was paroled in 2005.

“I was often in bad shape when I answered that phone, but no matter what I did or what I said, Donnie never criticized me,” Mrs. Andrews said. “He just kept giving me reasons why I should be doing something else, saying that if he can change, I can change. Through the worst of times, I kept holding on to that.”


Their romance and eventual engagement, leading up to their marriage in 2007, was covered on the front page of the Times.

By that time, Mrs. Andrews had long before established herself as a drug counselor. Hired in 1997 at what was then Bon Secours Hospital in Baltimore — now Grace Medical Center — she shepherded drug users into treatment and promoted HIV prevention. In addition to two sons, she raised two nieces and a nephew, and provided for the mother of a grandchild, helping them attend college and graduate school and begin careers.

“No matter with all that was going on, we were always taken good care of,” her son De’Rodd Hearns, a firefighter, told the New Yorker after his mother’s death. “We were different from some of the other kids in the neighborhood, who weren’t taken care of.”

Denise Francine Boyd, the fourth of six children, was born in Baltimore on Oct. 15, 1956. Her father was a construction worker, and her mother was a homemaker.


Mrs. Andrews attended the Community College of Baltimore County and worked for roughly a decade for the Chesapeake & Potomac Telephone Co.

She had several cameo appearances in “The Wire.” In “The Corner,” she played a rehab center employee who turns away the character of Fran Boyd when she shows up early for treatment, an indictment of the medical system and its failure to heal patients in the throes of addiction.

De’Andre L. McCullough died of an overdose in August 2012 at 35. Donnie Andrews died four months later at 58 after suffering a ruptured aorta.

Besides her brother and son De’Rodd Hearns, Mrs. Andrews’s survivors include the nieces and nephew she raised, Kennyetta, Ashley and Byron Bell; her grandson’s mother, Tyreeka Freamon; and numerous grandchildren.

When a reporter for the Irish Independent once asked Mrs. Andrews what lessons she drew from her life, she replied that “it would have to be ‘never say never.' ”

“I strongly believe,” she said, “there’s hope for anybody.”


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By Emily Langer
Emily Langer is a reporter on The Washington Post’s obituaries desk. She writes about extraordinary lives in national and international affairs, science and the arts, sports, culture, and beyond. She previously worked for the Outlook and Local Living sections.



~~~~~~~~~
"This is the streets, and I am the trap." � Jay Bilas
http://www.popmatters.com/pm/archive/contributor/517
Hip Hop Handbook: http://tinyurl.com/ll4kzz

  

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Amritsar
Member since Jan 18th 2008
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Tue Jun-07-22 04:25 AM

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43. "RIP"
In response to Reply # 42


  

          

  

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Buddy_Gilapagos
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Wed Jun-08-22 05:22 PM

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46. "*Spoiler Alert*"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

Soo, are we going to talk about Slow Hustle the documentary? Is it full of ish?

I saw it before this series but I don't remember two key things that came out of the series:

1. SS wasn't seriously under investigation.
2. His testimony wasn't necessary to convict the other cops.

I remember watching the documentary and thinking he was definitely shot by someone else because there is no way someone would run around the corner to commit suicide in 10 seconds time, but then this series gives a very plausible explanation why.


**********
"Everyone has a plan until you punch them in the face. Then they don't have a plan anymore." (c) Mike Tyson

"what's a leader if he isn't reluctant"

  

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Mafamaticks
Member since Jan 12th 2004
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Thu Jun-09-22 07:27 AM

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47. "RE: *Spoiler Alert*"
In response to Reply # 46
Thu Jun-09-22 07:30 AM by Mafamaticks

  

          

There was an independent investigation and David Simon believes the evidence points to suicide unfortunately. I tend to agree. I didn't at first.

In the actual footage, Suiter sent the other detective to the other side of the alley. Suiter was pacing back and forth by the van for a while before running in the alley. Most likely contemplating the decision he'd have to make.

He died with his radio in his left hand and there was blood splatter inside the cuff of his sleeve. If he was murdered by his own gun after a struggle, that would all be implausible.

It wasn't a hit because his testimony wasn't gonna swing the case in any way. They had all they needed to lock everybody up.

But in his defense the angle you see in the show of him running in the alley is the actual angle from the footage. So from the show aspect it's still up for interpretation. Nobody saw the alleged person he struggled with

I wish they gave us 2 more episodes about the fallout of that. Police was treating Edmonson Avenue like it was occupied territory.

  

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Mafamaticks
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Wed Jun-15-22 08:35 AM

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51. "it's a long ass read. I'm just starting it"
In response to Reply # 46


  

          

https://davidsimon.com/sean-suiter/

  

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Adwhizz
Member since Nov 12th 2003
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Thu Jun-09-22 11:52 AM

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48. "It's less than 10 seconds, but this is the funniest part of the"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

The entire mini series

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t3itTJkOH7w&t=29s

Dude drinking in his squad car and singing along to the Geto Boys made me crack up

R.I.P. Loud But Wrong Guy
Dec 29th 2009 - Dec 17th 2017

  

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Brew
Member since Nov 23rd 2002
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Thu Jun-09-22 12:22 PM

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49. "Haha yea he played that part brilliantly."
In response to Reply # 48
Thu Jun-09-22 12:23 PM by Brew

          

It's especially funny that he was constantly drinking wine coolers and Twisted Teas.

Like I'm not one to drink shame or play into gender norm bullshit but considering that he clearly saw *himself* as a typical alpha male, meathead type, it was just a funny juxtaposition. And I have to assume it wasn't by accident. That had to be based in truth.

----------------------------------------

"Fuck aliens." © WarriorPoet415

  

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Buddy_Gilapagos
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Thu Jun-09-22 04:33 PM

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50. "He was awesome to watch. I know the type. "
In response to Reply # 49


  

          

I grew up with red necks that the brothers loved because even though they were the reddest of red necks they were loud, showed respect and could talk shit with black people with ease. Might even have a black baby mama.

It's really something not represented on tv enough.

Funny thing is the actor is some northeast julliard trained actor. I was for sure certain he was some texas hick who decided to act.


**********
"Everyone has a plan until you punch them in the face. Then they don't have a plan anymore." (c) Mike Tyson

"what's a leader if he isn't reluctant"

  

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