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Subject: "Winning Time (HBO / McKay)" Previous topic | Next topic
Mynoriti
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Mon Mar-07-22 08:54 PM

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"Winning Time (HBO / McKay)"
Mon Mar-07-22 08:57 PM by Mynoriti

  

          

I swear this show feels tailor made for me as Laker fan/LA Native, and I absolutely loved the premiere but I'm a bit curious how people less into the source material feel about it

it has the over-the-topness of the FX OJ series, except with that one i had such vivid memories. a lot of this is stuff that happened when i was too young to really remember, yet it all feels super familiar.

McKay's style is def there, and it's really in your face. i know some people aren't into it but i think it really works here.

I was legit giddy watching this shit

  

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Topic Outline
Subject Author Message Date ID
they gotta be gassing some of this lol
Mar 07th 2022
1
lol that reeeally threw me
Mar 07th 2022
3
Quincy Isaiah is a real diamond in the rough man
Mar 07th 2022
2
it really is incredible
Mar 07th 2022
4
Its funny because first scene I didn't see it.
Mar 08th 2022
6
I loved the first ep
Mar 07th 2022
5
I'm with you on it feeling tailor made for LA Natives
Mar 08th 2022
7
Didn't know much about Jack Kent Cooke
Mar 08th 2022
8
I loved the book
Mar 09th 2022
9
      Same. I've been meaning to go back through before i start the show
Mar 10th 2022
10
This is an LA story told in a Hollywood style. And it definitely works.
Mar 11th 2022
11
WOW.
Mar 21st 2022
12
man this shit is just pure fun every week
Mar 27th 2022
13
RE: man this shit is just pure fun every week
Mar 27th 2022
14
Doctor Buss is a delinquent!
Mar 28th 2022
15
I made the nasty face at that one 😂
Mar 28th 2022
16
lol me too.
Mar 30th 2022
17
to be fair i think it was the other hand lol
Mar 30th 2022
19
      Nah I rewound that like Zapruder my guy
Mar 30th 2022
21
           :(
Mar 30th 2022
22
           RE: Nah I rewound that like Zapruder my guy - lmaooooo
Mar 30th 2022
23
Yea this is really really really good.
Mar 30th 2022
18
it really is . it's so fun
Mar 30th 2022
20
      It does look like it was shot on film
Mar 31st 2022
24
           Hasn't been a questionable choice yet
Mar 31st 2022
25
           Some of it looks like it was shot on VHS video. It works so well.
Apr 04th 2022
30
                there's an in-depth cinematographer interview where he talks about this
Apr 04th 2022
36
                     Love this.
Apr 05th 2022
39
Anyone else immediately recognize the Imam from last nite's ep ?
Apr 04th 2022
26
the... the..
Apr 04th 2022
27
      Haha yep the voice is what caught me at first, too.
Apr 04th 2022
28
           Yep, recognized the voice first
Apr 04th 2022
29
                Haha yes exactly.
Apr 04th 2022
33
                who was Mike D?
Apr 04th 2022
34
                     He was a piano player at a club in episode 2
Apr 04th 2022
35
I like this show quite a bit, but...
Apr 04th 2022
31
I don't have sympathy either but I don't necessarily think that's what t...
Apr 04th 2022
32
Man you can just say you hate the Lakers and full stop.
Apr 04th 2022
37
I don’t think sympathy is being solicited there.
Apr 18th 2022
48
I'll miss Jack
Apr 05th 2022
38
I was born in late 70s so McKinney was all new to me
Apr 06th 2022
40
What y'all think about Mike Epps's Pryor?
Apr 10th 2022
41
terrible
Apr 10th 2022
42
first mid casting decision, but it also took me a minute to call it as M...
Apr 11th 2022
43
The only good thing about it is this will certify that he never gets to
Apr 14th 2022
44
FUCK BOSTON
Apr 17th 2022
45
LOL. Great ep. The fuck Boston stuff was laugh out loud funny.
Apr 18th 2022
46
when I was a kid I liked Larry Bird over Jordan
Apr 18th 2022
47
That Boston shit was accurate as fuck.
Apr 18th 2022
49
the Pat Riley evolution is wild
Apr 18th 2022
50
Magic is depicted as what we call in Baltimore, "A Whole Whore".
Apr 18th 2022
51
He really shouldn't be mad. He talked about it all the time...
Apr 20th 2022
56
Cap ain't having it (swipe)
Apr 19th 2022
52
Can't really fault him or anyone depicted for being unhappy with it
Apr 19th 2022
53
Yeah, I'll let any and all historians/people portrayed be mad if they wa...
Apr 21st 2022
58
Yeah? Well, you know that's just like, uh, your opinion man (c)
Apr 19th 2022
54
i got bored by his review lol
Apr 19th 2022
55
Jerry West wants retraction and apology
Apr 20th 2022
57
I get it, really, BUT
Apr 21st 2022
59
      No asshole hothead actually admits thats who they are lol
May 09th 2022
63
Gotta admit, wasn't vibing much with this episode
Apr 25th 2022
60
Larry Bird should take this episode to the Supreme Court too lmao
May 09th 2022
61
Nah. All of that tracks with what we know about Bird
May 09th 2022
64
Really surprised no one is talking about that Buss rape scene
May 09th 2022
62
Nobody else watching this season ?
Sep 12th 2023
65
I can't get over
Sep 12th 2023
66
      Yea plus it looks like he can kinda ball. Kid is great overall.
Sep 12th 2023
67
Enjoying everything about this series...
Sep 12th 2023
68
Sadly, it has been cancelled
Sep 18th 2023
69
such horseshit. I def didn't expect this
Sep 18th 2023
70
Yea. They said it's cuz ratings were down but I think HBO ..
Sep 18th 2023
71
from the ppl who said let's take the most respect brand in prestige tv
Sep 18th 2023
72
      lol
Sep 18th 2023
73
      i still have trouble understanding this move
Sep 19th 2023
75
      Crazy how ppl dont realize that MAX is the name of the streaming service
Sep 22nd 2023
78
           Kinda proves the point that it was a bad strategy to change the name no?
Sep 22nd 2023
79
Apparently they were told back in Jan/Feb
Sep 20th 2023
76
      that kills the theory I had
Sep 20th 2023
77
noooooo
Sep 18th 2023
74

BrooklynWHAT
Member since Jun 15th 2007
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Mon Mar-07-22 09:56 PM

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1. "they gotta be gassing some of this lol"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

like everyone knows Jerry West is sour as hell. he'll admit it. but man it aint no way he was as rough as the show looks.

A1 entertainment though I am in on it.

<--- Big Baller World Order

  

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Mynoriti
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Mon Mar-07-22 10:26 PM

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3. "lol that reeeally threw me"
In response to Reply # 1


  

          

that's ragefest isn't the Jerry West i know, but it was pretty hilarious.
I assume he's gonna calm as the series goes on.. he can't be at an 11 all the time, because it's just gonna get old.

  

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Nodima
Member since Jul 30th 2008
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Mon Mar-07-22 10:18 PM

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2. "Quincy Isaiah is a real diamond in the rough man"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

Find you a dude that can look like Magic, charm like Magic AND play basketball "like Magic"? I say impossible, Melissa Kostenbauder says hold my beer. Funnily enough I was bored and curious enough that I looked her up to see what else she'd cast and she also did the NBA 2K19 and 21 story modes so she probably had a line on big dudes that wanted to do some acting, lol.


~~~~~~~~~
"This is the streets, and I am the trap." � Jay Bilas
http://www.popmatters.com/pm/archive/contributor/517
Hip Hop Handbook: http://tinyurl.com/ll4kzz

  

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Mynoriti
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Mon Mar-07-22 10:30 PM

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4. "it really is incredible"
In response to Reply # 2


  

          

if Buss doesn't work, the show doesn't work but the same goes for Magic

While i think Reilly is crushing it, he's not the *only* person that could have pulled it off (though after 1 ep i dont want to picture anyone else)

But the Magic thing is a damn near impossible get. just, wow.

  

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Buddy_Gilapagos
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Tue Mar-08-22 08:25 AM

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6. "Its funny because first scene I didn't see it. "
In response to Reply # 2


  

          

When the brother was all serious. But when he started flashing that smile, lost him in the role. Impeccable Casting.


**********
"Everyone has a plan until you punch them in the face. Then they don't have a plan anymore." (c) Mike Tyson

"what's a leader if he isn't reluctant"

  

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Heinz
Member since Dec 26th 2003
20759 posts
Mon Mar-07-22 11:55 PM

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5. "I loved the first ep"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

McKay really sucks at opening credits LOL I hate this open song and titles a little less than I hate them on Succession.

  

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JiggysMyDayJob
Member since Jul 03rd 2002
5178 posts
Tue Mar-08-22 10:21 AM

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7. "I'm with you on it feeling tailor made for LA Natives"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

Like if you're an LA Native in your 40's and up, you grew up watching the dynasty that Buss built. You know all the names and though you may not know the whole story, you know if enough for all of it to feel so familiar to you.


The casting so far has been excellent and I think without the right casting this would be a fail right out the gate.

I'm excited to see how much of the story they tell and how much of it they don't or sensationalize because its TV. I know McKay loves the history and story of this team so it'll be interesting to see how he tackles all of it.


sometimes u gotta leave ur inner nigger in the bank vault. - desus

Situation Podemy : www.situationpodemy.wordpress.com
itunes:https://itunes.apple.com/us/podcast/situation-podemy/id620232249
facebook: facebook.com/situationpodemy
@SituationPodemy

  

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LeroyBumpkin
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Tue Mar-08-22 12:59 PM

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8. "Didn't know much about Jack Kent Cooke"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

So that was a new story line for me.

For the longest I wanted to read the book this was made from. Still might have to cop.

https://digife.com

  

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DJR
Member since Jan 01st 2005
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Wed Mar-09-22 08:51 PM

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9. "I loved the book"
In response to Reply # 8


  

          

Might even read it again.

  

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Cold Truth
Member since Jan 28th 2004
44840 posts
Thu Mar-10-22 10:53 AM

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10. "Same. I've been meaning to go back through before i start the show"
In response to Reply # 9


  

          

I wonder how they'll treat the Lakers Forum Club on screen

  

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Castro
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Fri Mar-11-22 01:43 PM

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11. "This is an LA story told in a Hollywood style. And it definitely works."
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

Norm Nixon is played by his son....I was like GATDAMN, where did they find the Norm Nixon clone?


Seeing Jack Kent Cooke and Donald Sterling was unsettling....

------------------
One Hundred.

  

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Castro
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Mon Mar-21-22 07:10 PM

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12. "WOW."
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

Thats all I can say.

------------------
One Hundred.

  

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BrooklynWHAT
Member since Jun 15th 2007
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Sun Mar-27-22 09:03 PM

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13. "man this shit is just pure fun every week"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

that Magic and Norm linkup at the end of this week ep put a smile on my face

<--- Big Baller World Order

  

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Castro
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Sun Mar-27-22 10:19 PM

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14. "RE: man this shit is just pure fun every week"
In response to Reply # 13


  

          

COOOOOOOOOOOOP!

------------------
One Hundred.

  

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Nodima
Member since Jul 30th 2008
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Mon Mar-28-22 02:35 AM

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15. "Doctor Buss is a delinquent!"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

The same hand he pickles Ginger with is the same hand he slides down his daughter's shoulder a second later


The man is a menace


~~~~~~~~~
"This is the streets, and I am the trap." � Jay Bilas
http://www.popmatters.com/pm/archive/contributor/517
Hip Hop Handbook: http://tinyurl.com/ll4kzz

  

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BrooklynWHAT
Member since Jun 15th 2007
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16. "I made the nasty face at that one 😂"
In response to Reply # 15


  

          

<--- Big Baller World Order

  

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Brew
Member since Nov 23rd 2002
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17. "lol me too."
In response to Reply # 16


          

----------------------------------------

"Fuck aliens." © WarriorPoet415

  

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Mynoriti
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19. "to be fair i think it was the other hand lol"
In response to Reply # 15


  

          

but the "daddy" stuff was heaavvy in this ep

when she went through his album and saw Miss Pasedna/Ginger then glanced over at her Miss Palisades pic

yikes

  

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Nodima
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21. "Nah I rewound that like Zapruder my guy"
In response to Reply # 19


  

          

He goes cross body with the left on Ginger

~~~~~~~~~
"This is the streets, and I am the trap." � Jay Bilas
http://www.popmatters.com/pm/archive/contributor/517
Hip Hop Handbook: http://tinyurl.com/ll4kzz

  

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Mynoriti
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22. ":("
In response to Reply # 21


  

          

  

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BrooklynWHAT
Member since Jun 15th 2007
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Wed Mar-30-22 10:06 PM

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23. "RE: Nah I rewound that like Zapruder my guy - lmaooooo"
In response to Reply # 21


  

          


<--- Big Baller World Order

  

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Brew
Member since Nov 23rd 2002
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18. "Yea this is really really really good."
In response to Reply # 0


          

I love the grainy footage and the manic camera work. Don't know any technical production terms but anyone watching knows what I mean haha.

----------------------------------------

"Fuck aliens." © WarriorPoet415

  

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Mynoriti
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20. "it really is . it's so fun"
In response to Reply # 18


  

          

>I love the grainy footage and the manic camera work. Don't
>know any technical production terms but anyone watching knows
>what I mean haha.

lol yeah looks like it's all shot on film and,i'm assuming they shot the grainier stuff on 16mm, and some maybe even on 8mm (the cuts where you see the perf mark on the left).

I miss working with film but i used to dread 16mm o-neg because it's so thin and snaps so easily. the old heads i worked with called it spaghetti lol

  

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JiggysMyDayJob
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24. "It does look like it was shot on film"
In response to Reply # 20


  

          

I'm not sure if all on film or if it's post-production effects to make it look like film though. I imagine a combo of both though.

The show overall is fun and I can still see why certain folks around the organization are mad but at the same time, they're taking a good number of liberties. I'm just glad it's more light-hearted than I first thought it was going to be.

Also knocked it out of the park on casting.

sometimes u gotta leave ur inner nigger in the bank vault. - desus

Situation Podemy : www.situationpodemy.wordpress.com
itunes:https://itunes.apple.com/us/podcast/situation-podemy/id620232249
facebook: facebook.com/situationpodemy
@SituationPodemy

  

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MaxPtah
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25. "Hasn't been a questionable choice yet"
In response to Reply # 24


  

          


>Also knocked it out of the park on casting.

----------------------------------
www.maxptah.com
"you gotta be real white to hate on a nxgga for eating." (c) okp infin8

  

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Buddy_Gilapagos
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30. "Some of it looks like it was shot on VHS video. It works so well. "
In response to Reply # 24


  

          


**********
"Everyone has a plan until you punch them in the face. Then they don't have a plan anymore." (c) Mike Tyson

"what's a leader if he isn't reluctant"

  

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Nodima
Member since Jul 30th 2008
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Mon Apr-04-22 06:45 PM

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36. "there's an in-depth cinematographer interview where he talks about this"
In response to Reply # 30


  

          

https://www.digitaltrends.com/movies/winning-time-interview-cinematographer-todd-banhazl/

in short: they really did shoot on three sizes of film (which to me is fucking crazy) and then used a mix of actual physical shopping and digital editing to make it all fit together. and their guiding principle for shots and angles was being a dad at a BBQ with a handheld.

~~~~~~~~~
"This is the streets, and I am the trap." � Jay Bilas
http://www.popmatters.com/pm/archive/contributor/517
Hip Hop Handbook: http://tinyurl.com/ll4kzz

  

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Brew
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Tue Apr-05-22 09:11 AM

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39. "Love this."
In response to Reply # 36


          

>https://www.digitaltrends.com/movies/winning-time-interview-cinematographer-todd-banhazl/
>
>in short: they really did shoot on three sizes of film (which
>to me is fucking crazy) and then used a mix of actual physical
>shopping and digital editing to make it all fit together. and
>their guiding principle for shots and angles was being a dad
>at a BBQ with a handheld.
>
>~~~~~~~~~
>"This is the streets, and I am the trap." � Jay Bilas
>http://www.popmatters.com/pm/archive/contributor/517
>Hip Hop Handbook: http://tinyurl.com/ll4kzz

----------------------------------------

"Fuck aliens." © WarriorPoet415

  

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Brew
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26. "Anyone else immediately recognize the Imam from last nite's ep ?"
In response to Reply # 0


          

Don't cheat !

----------------------------------------

"Fuck aliens." © WarriorPoet415

  

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Mynoriti
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27. "the... the.."
In response to Reply # 26


  

          

A friend callede it due to the voice.. I looked it up like, oh shit.

  

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Brew
Member since Nov 23rd 2002
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Mon Apr-04-22 10:57 AM

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28. "Haha yep the voice is what caught me at first, too."
In response to Reply # 27


          

Then I recognized his face more via his half smile and such.

Pretty awesome. Voice sounded great. I'm sure they enhanced it a bit or something but he basically just sounds like an older dude who smoked a lot of cigarettes haha. I hope he is thriving.

----------------------------------------

"Fuck aliens." © WarriorPoet415

  

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mrhood75
Member since Dec 06th 2004
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Mon Apr-04-22 11:09 AM

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29. "Yep, recognized the voice first"
In response to Reply # 28


  

          

That's the second rapper cameo that they've had so far (and an even bigger one than Mike D's).

The Brooklyn Imam was one of those "That Guy!" actors who I recognize from lots of stuff, can't put my finger on what exactly. And I don't know his name.

-----------------

www.albumism.com

Checkin' Our Style, Return To Zero:

https://www.mixcloud.com/returntozero/

  

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Brew
Member since Nov 23rd 2002
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Mon Apr-04-22 12:09 PM

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33. "Haha yes exactly."
In response to Reply # 29


          

>The Brooklyn Imam was one of those "That Guy!" actors who I
>recognize from lots of stuff, can't put my finger on what
>exactly. And I don't know his name.

----------------------------------------

"Fuck aliens." © WarriorPoet415

  

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Mynoriti
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Mon Apr-04-22 02:15 PM

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34. "who was Mike D?"
In response to Reply # 29


  

          

i missed that

  

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mrhood75
Member since Dec 06th 2004
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Mon Apr-04-22 03:42 PM

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35. "He was a piano player at a club in episode 2"
In response to Reply # 34


  

          

I think it’s the scene where he takes out Red Auerbach for dinner.

-----------------

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mrhood75
Member since Dec 06th 2004
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Mon Apr-04-22 11:49 AM

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31. "I like this show quite a bit, but..."
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

...I'm having a hard time mustering up sympathy when there are dramatic "low points" (aside from the death and McKinney getting hurt) because I know everything by and large works out for the Lakers. Because, you know, they're the Lakers, and they largely owned the 1980s.

Besides, I fucking hate the Lakers, so am I really good to feel for Mychael Thompson trying to find his place on the time? Or worry about Jerry Buss during all these early financial issues? Or feel bad in future seasons when they lose two finals in a row after winning the championship two out of three times?

The only thing about this season that isn't quite working is the stuff between Jerry and Jeanie Buss. Jeanie coming to terms with who her father really is doesn't hold my interest. I'd rather they do more with Gabby Hoffman's character.

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Brew
Member since Nov 23rd 2002
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Mon Apr-04-22 12:08 PM

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32. "I don't have sympathy either but I don't necessarily think that's what t..."
In response to Reply # 31


          

>...I'm having a hard time mustering up sympathy when there
>are dramatic "low points" (aside from the death and McKinney
>getting hurt) because I know everything by and large works out
>for the Lakers. Because, you know, they're the Lakers, and
>they largely owned the 1980s.

As far as I'm aware the show is based largely on the book and the real story so the dramatic low points you referenced are just a retelling of the story (I know a portion of it is dramatized too, but I'm just saying in the big picture). Everyone knows where it ends up so I doubt the producers were looking to elicit sympathy from viewers.


>The only thing about this season that isn't quite working is
>the stuff between Jerry and Jeanie Buss. Jeanie coming to
>terms with who her father really is doesn't hold my interest.
>I'd rather they do more with Gabby Hoffman's character.

Ha the premise of the whole story is about the Buss family buying the Lakers and their subsequent success. Of course they're gonna focus on that relationship more than other arcs. This seems like a strange gripe to me lol.

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Buddy_Gilapagos
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37. "Man you can just say you hate the Lakers and full stop. "
In response to Reply # 31


  

          

That would explain it best rather than knocking a show just because we know what happens in real life. Like that's most based on true story feel good movies!?!


**********
"Everyone has a plan until you punch them in the face. Then they don't have a plan anymore." (c) Mike Tyson

"what's a leader if he isn't reluctant"

  

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Cold Truth
Member since Jan 28th 2004
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Mon Apr-18-22 10:21 AM

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48. "I don’t think sympathy is being solicited there."
In response to Reply # 31


  

          

>...I'm having a hard time mustering up sympathy when there
>are dramatic "low points" (aside from the death and McKinney
>getting hurt) because I know everything by and large works out
>for the Lakers. Because, you know, they're the Lakers, and
>they largely owned the 1980s.

I don’t see this being presented as a play for sympathy at all.
Hell, it’s barely played for drama.

It’s showing how Buss sorta scraped through that part by being brash, bold, and ballsy.

His mom/bookkeeper is largely played for comedy. The only time it fees like they’re playing a heart string is when Dr Buss leaves Jeanie to deal with her dementia.

The vast majority of the serious shit is still played with a light hand.

>Besides, I fucking hate the Lakers, so am I really good to
>feel for Mychael Thompson trying to find his place on the
>time? Or worry about Jerry Buss during all these early
>financial issues? Or feel bad in future seasons when they lose
>two finals in a row after winning the championship two out of
>three times?

Again, it’s really not being played in a way to make you feel bad.
It’s heavy on humor, and a lot of the serious shit is played sardonically.

The Kareem shit got heavy when we saw through his eyes, who he was and why. So those moments exist. But I’m not seeing notes of sympathy much at all on this show.

>The only thing about this season that isn't quite working is
>the stuff between Jerry and Jeanie Buss. Jeanie coming to
>terms with who her father really is doesn't hold my interest.

I think Buddy is right fam... much of this is just you hating the Lakers
I don’t think the Jerry:Jeanie stuff is *particularly* interesting, but they’re playing that with a light hand too. A touch here and there- with one big moment in the mix, to be sure- but they do it in spots, and in a very show, don’t tell way. IMO they’ve dine a good job with that, without beating us over the head.

I think your perspective is skewed by your feelings for the franchise though. The show is a fun ride, more than anything else.

  

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Nodima
Member since Jul 30th 2008
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Tue Apr-05-22 05:39 AM

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38. "I'll miss Jack"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

The pacing of this show has me confused sometimes, I didn't really expect a montage leading into his huge accident. But I know I don't have a better idea either.


Friends and I are starting to hope this show has ambitions to go many, many seasons and basically cover all of the '80s NBA from a Lakers perspective. Which maybe isn't traditional since they're so often the winners, but there's enough challenges there and we've already seen this writing staff is really good at forgetting fact in favor of fiction.


~~~~~~~~~
"This is the streets, and I am the trap." � Jay Bilas
http://www.popmatters.com/pm/archive/contributor/517
Hip Hop Handbook: http://tinyurl.com/ll4kzz

  

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Beamer6178
Member since Jan 09th 2006
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40. "I was born in late 70s so McKinney was all new to me"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

I hate spoilers, but I was definitely puzzled on this McKinney guy and why only Westhead and Riley get are the names mentioned in popular media.

Really sad. From how they depicted it, he was the genuine article and could have won even more with them. Fucking bicycle.

  

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Mafamaticks
Member since Jan 12th 2004
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Sun Apr-10-22 09:07 PM

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41. "What y'all think about Mike Epps's Pryor?"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

  

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rdhull
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42. "terrible"
In response to Reply # 41


  

          

>

  

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Nodima
Member since Jul 30th 2008
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43. "first mid casting decision, but it also took me a minute to call it as M..."
In response to Reply # 41


  

          

They shouldn't have spotlighted him though, just do a fly-by like Jack


~~~~~~~~~
"This is the streets, and I am the trap." � Jay Bilas
http://www.popmatters.com/pm/archive/contributor/517
Hip Hop Handbook: http://tinyurl.com/ll4kzz

  

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Castro
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44. "The only good thing about it is this will certify that he never gets to "
In response to Reply # 41


  

          

do the Bio film as Pryor. LOL.

D. Wayans was much better as Richard.

------------------
One Hundred.

  

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Mafamaticks
Member since Jan 12th 2004
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45. "FUCK BOSTON"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

goddamn that ep got me hyped

  

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Brew
Member since Nov 23rd 2002
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Mon Apr-18-22 09:36 AM

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46. "LOL. Great ep. The fuck Boston stuff was laugh out loud funny."
In response to Reply # 45


          

And I'm a Boston guy.

----------------------------------------

"Fuck aliens." © WarriorPoet415

  

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Mafamaticks
Member since Jan 12th 2004
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Mon Apr-18-22 09:56 AM

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47. "when I was a kid I liked Larry Bird over Jordan"
In response to Reply # 46


  

          

I had above average handles so I could get to the paint but I always wanted to shoot like him when I was playing ball. my pops couldn't stand that shit and I never understood why until I was older. But he let me rock.

  

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Castro
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49. "That Boston shit was accurate as fuck. "
In response to Reply # 45


  

          

Shitty visitors locker room in the garden, the dead spots on the floor, the nasty ass fans, all of that. And Red smoking his cigar.

------------------
One Hundred.

  

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Castro
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50. "the Pat Riley evolution is wild"
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Seeing him go from beach bum to Slick Pat is amazing.

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Castro
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51. "Magic is depicted as what we call in Baltimore, "A Whole Whore"."
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

I can see why he wasn't hyped about this coming out.

------------------
One Hundred.

  

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mrhood75
Member since Dec 06th 2004
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Wed Apr-20-22 01:15 AM

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56. "He really shouldn't be mad. He talked about it all the time..."
In response to Reply # 51


  

          

...after when he announced that he had HIV. Stories about all the orgies he participated in. People thought Magic was trying to do "damage control" and laying it on thick to convince everyone he didn't get HIV by having sex with men.

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www.albumism.com

Checkin' Our Style, Return To Zero:

https://www.mixcloud.com/returntozero/

  

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Castro
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52. "Cap ain't having it (swipe)"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

https://kareem.substack.com/p/winning-time-isnt-just-deliberately?s=r


A lot of people have been asking me if I’ve seen the HBO series Winning Time: The Rise of the Lakers Dynasty. Actually, I had no real interest in watching the show, not because of any negative feelings about being exploited, but because I’d already lived through it. I know exactly what happened. To watch 10 hours of someone else’s interpretation seemed like a waste of my time. For me, the show would be excruciatingly familiar like being interviewed by Chris Farley in the famous Saturday Night Live skit when he asked Paul McCartney questions like, “Remember when you were with the Beatles?” However, after hearing some angry grumblings in the pop culture ether about misrepresentation and outright lies, my journalistic curiosity took over and I sat down to watch.

Before I get to my opinion, we’ll need to clear up two things.

First, my response to the show has nothing to do with how I’m portrayed, the details of which I’ll discuss later. I’m 75, folks, and have been dealing with positive and negative descriptions of me for 55 years and I long ago accepted that it’s just part of the celebrity gig. There’s very little that anyone can say about me—whether it’s true or false—that will affect my life. Especially in a TV show. I don’t get mad if someone wants to portray me as basically a T-800 Terminator robot. My record as a college and NBA player and my lifetime commitment to social justice is enough for me.

Second, I’m not a stickler for everything being factual when doing a fictionalized account of historical events. One of my favorite shows is The Great, a historical dramedy about Catherine the Great, Empress of Russia. Nearly nothing is factual, which the show’s creators remind us with their onscreen title: The Great: An Almost Entirely Untrue Story. Sometimes writers must take dramatic license in order to convey a deeper truth. I’ll also discuss this in more detail later.

To recap: My reaction to Winning Time is not related to how I’m portrayed nor to a need for a factual account of those years. Now, let’s dig in.

------------------
One Hundred.

  

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stylez dainty
Member since Nov 22nd 2004
6738 posts
Tue Apr-19-22 04:30 PM

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53. "Can't really fault him or anyone depicted for being unhappy with it"
In response to Reply # 52


  

          

The show is really fun, and I look forward to every episode, but it's clear that they are playing very fast and loose with the characters and story. I could see a fear that people would see this as the definitive telling of what happened with the Showtime Lakers, because it will most likely be the most popular/watched piece of media on the subject.

But based on my theory that I'm not any smarter than anyone else watching this, it's been clear to me from the beginning to take all of this with a serious grain of salt. I doubt anyone is taking this show all that seriously--it's near parody in a lot of ways as far as its depiction of 80s NBA.

Definitely think he's wrong about the show being boring, but it definitely is not a nuanced, thoughtful show. It's pure style over substance fun. One thing I think he's overlooking is how likable the depiction of Magic is, and to an extent, his depiction, too. Don't see much harm being done here to those two. (West and Westhead on the other hand, would have a much stronger case for the series doing harm to their legacy, but once again, I think everyone watching knows many liberties are being taken)

----
I check for: Serengeti, Zeroh, Open Mike Eagle, Jeremiah Jae, Moka Only.

  

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Nodima
Member since Jul 30th 2008
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Thu Apr-21-22 01:41 AM

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58. "Yeah, I'll let any and all historians/people portrayed be mad if they wa..."
In response to Reply # 53


  

          

This shit is fun as hell though and it only certifies that these people are ridiculously interesting even if the show barely cares about why the book it's based on found them interesting


~~~~~~~~~
"This is the streets, and I am the trap." � Jay Bilas
http://www.popmatters.com/pm/archive/contributor/517
Hip Hop Handbook: http://tinyurl.com/ll4kzz

  

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Mafamaticks
Member since Jan 12th 2004
4667 posts
Tue Apr-19-22 06:09 PM

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54. "Yeah? Well, you know that's just like, uh, your opinion man (c)"
In response to Reply # 52
Tue Apr-19-22 06:15 PM by Mafamaticks

  

          

I don't think he's as impartial as he thinks he is but i gotta let him rock.

LOL @ one of his paragraphs named "The Sin of being boring." Pretentious much?

Honestly it sounds like he doesn't like it because it's not 100% accurate but wrote a bunch of fluff in order to convince other people that he dislikes it for other reasons.

  

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Mynoriti
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55. "i got bored by his review lol"
In response to Reply # 52


  

          

and tapped out halfway through

and i normally enjoy Cap think pieces

I can't blame him for saying fuck this show, but maybe it's hard for me to buy his disclaimers that he's unaffected by his portrayal, or the bending of facts.

i LOVED this boston episode but it might be the most inaccurate episode yet. If it was about me, that would drive me crazy. I guess part of me thinks he's writing a drawn out review to somewhat mask his real opinion of, man, fuck this bullshit.

but i could be dead wrong of course. either way, if anyone has the right to shit on this for any reason, it's Kareem

  

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c71
Member since Jan 15th 2008
13962 posts
Wed Apr-20-22 08:50 PM

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57. "Jerry West wants retraction and apology"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

Don't know why people think historical dramatization will not bring lawsuits after Pebbles and the TLC tv movie. But I understand Olivia de Havilland losing her suit when she didn't like how she was "dramatized" in the "Feud: Bette and Joan" tv movie has seemed to make it less "risky"


https://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/33769604/jerry-west-demands-retraction-apology-portrayal-hbo-series-winning

Jerry West demands retraction, apology over portrayal in HBO series 'Winning Time'
play
Apr 19, 2022



Former Los Angeles Lakers executive Jerry West is demanding a retraction and an apology for what he called "a baseless and malicious assault" on his character in the HBO series "Winning Time," in a letter sent Tuesday evening by his legal team to the network and producer Adam McKay that was obtained by ESPN.

West's lawyers allege that "Winning Time falsely and cruelly portrays Mr. West as an out-of-control, intoxicated rage-aholic," saying that "bears no resemblance to the real man." They ask for a retraction no later than two weeks from the receipt of the letter.

"The portrayal of NBA icon and L.A. Lakers legend Jerry West in 'Winning Time' is fiction pretending to be fact -- a deliberately false characterization that has caused great distress to Jerry and his family," said Skip Miller, a partner at the Miller Barondess LLP law firm in Los Angeles and attorney for West. "Contrary to the baseless portrayal in the HBO series, Jerry had nothing but love for and harmony with the Lakers organization, and in particular owner Dr. Jerry Buss, during an era in which he assembled one of the greatest teams in NBA history.

"Jerry West was an integral part of the Lakers and NBA's success. It is a travesty that HBO has knowingly demeaned him for shock value and the pursuit of ratings. As an act of common decency, HBO and the producers owe Jerry a public apology and at the very least should retract their baseless and defamatory portrayal of him."

West's lawyers said HBO's disclaimer that the series is a dramatization does not insulate the network from liability.

HBO did not immediately respond to or comment on West's letter.


The series, which has been airing on Sunday nights this spring on HBO, is based on author Jeff Pearlman's book "Showtime: Magic, Kareem, Riley, and the Los Angeles Lakers Dynasty of the 1980s."

West's lawyers allege that the series creators acted with "legal malice" because many scenes in the series showing West's purported rage did not appear in Pearlman's book and did not happen. The letter includes statements from former players such as Kareem Abdul-Jabbar, Michael Cooper and Jamaal Wilkes, as well as Lakers employees such as Claire Rothman, Charlene Kenney, Bob Steiner and Mitch Kupchak who worked with West during the time period covered in the show, denying that they ever saw him commit any of the rage-filled acts or drink alcohol in the office, as depicted in the series.

"Instead of exploring his issues with compassion as a way to better understand the man, they turn him into a Wile E. Coyote cartoon to be laughed at," Abdul-Jabbar said in a statement. "He never broke golf clubs, he didn't throw his trophy through the window. Sure, those actions make dramatic moments, but they reek of facile exploitation of the man rather than exploration of character."

Rothman, who ran operations at the Great Western Forum for over 20 years and is portrayed by Gaby Hoffmann in the series, said, "Jerry treated me and everyone else in the Lakers organization with dignity and respect. I never saw Jerry break or throw anything in anger or rage nor did I hear anyone ever say he did such things."

Kupchak, now the Charlotte Hornets' general manager, played for the Lakers from 1981 to 1986 and then worked alongside West in the Lakers' front office from 1986 to 2000.


"During my time with the Lakers as a player and in the front office, Jerry was always professional, even-keeled and soft-spoken," Kupchak said. "He was always positive and encouraging with me. I also found Jerry to be honest and sincere. I never saw or heard Jerry lose his temper with anyone. I also never saw or heard Jerry go on an angry rant or tirade, nor did I ever see or hear Jerry scream or yell at anyone. That was not his personality. Jerry is soft-spoken and does not like confrontation. He always keeps his composure and remains calm even when he has a disagreement with someone. Last, I've never heard or seen Jerry ever break or throw anything in anger."

West's lawyers said he is due a retraction, an apology and damages from HBO and the show's producers because "the show goes out of its way to denigrate Jerry West despite his accomplishments as an executive."

The letter goes on to cite the series' depiction of West's role in the drafting of Magic Johnson, saying it implies West had "personal animus" against Johnson and tried to "sabotage" his selection. West's lawyers said he only pointed out Sidney Moncrief's scoring ability and that the Lakers should consider him, while then-team owner Jack Kent Cooke had the final decision.

"So instead of seeing the true Jerry West -- a brilliant GM who was the architect of one of the great NBA dynasties -- anyone who watched the show would be left with the false impression that West is incompetent, that he didn't want Magic Johnson. This is a fabrication," the letter says. "Contrary to the show, the book leaves readers with the true impression of Jerry as a brilliant and thoughtful GM. Your extreme departure from the book shows malice in your false portrayal."

  

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Nodima
Member since Jul 30th 2008
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Thu Apr-21-22 01:54 AM

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59. "I get it, really, BUT"
In response to Reply # 57
Thu Apr-21-22 02:00 AM by Nodima

  

          

I do disagree that it makes West look, I dunno, BAD. Hot headed and impulsive, sure. But the only reasons he possibly looks bad on this show are due to, what, 80% of people watching this show knowing what the end result is? More than that? Taken strictly as a dramatic comedy, West usually comes off to me like a guy who clearly isn't built for the day to day aspects of coaching but has a real genuine view of what he thinks a great Lakers basketball team is and can't stand that he's incapable of doing both jobs at once. He's looking his worst when he's quitting his job and undermining his, uh, employees? Sounds like when most people look bad.


He's portrayed as a dick too, but a dick with a point, or perspective. He plays his role on this show. And in any case, as a neutral fan of basketball this Jerry West doesn't strike me as entirely pulled from fantasy. He's talked his own self about how he had to take steps away from the game from time to time due to self imposed stress and regrets over both the game and his childhood. It's amplified, but it doesn't seem SO weird.

If anything, if I wanted to take the ball geek approach, it's how often Magic guards Larry in this episode. This was a good decade before teams started doing mismatch, best/worst matchups.


~~~~~~~~~
"This is the streets, and I am the trap." � Jay Bilas
http://www.popmatters.com/pm/archive/contributor/517
Hip Hop Handbook: http://tinyurl.com/ll4kzz

  

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Heinz
Member since Dec 26th 2003
20759 posts
Mon May-09-22 09:34 AM

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63. "No asshole hothead actually admits thats who they are lol"
In response to Reply # 59
Mon May-09-22 09:35 AM by Heinz

  

          

He may not see himself as that and even people he's close to will never admit it... as much as they probably embellished on his portrayal there is probably a lot of truth in it as well. I'm glad none of them had any say on the show. We would get a white washed made up version of the story anyways if they were involved the same way we saw it in the NWA movie. Just be happy this has a comedic tone throughout the whole show vs trying to pass it off as a drama.

  

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Nodima
Member since Jul 30th 2008
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Mon Apr-25-22 05:01 AM

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60. "Gotta admit, wasn't vibing much with this episode"
In response to Reply # 0
Mon Apr-25-22 05:03 AM by Nodima

  

          

Obviously I've talked a lot of shit in this thread about how the manufactured drama hasn't bothered me much because it's pretty much always been in the name of a good time but this episode felt weirdly...angry? Agitated? Did any of THIS bit of the head coach drama actually happen?

Letts is good at this stuff of course but it's not fun. This episode sorta reminded me of how all the family drama scenes in Heat can be a real derailment of a good time when you're not in the mood for it and there's no coked up Pacino to dip (un?)intentional comedy into the pot. I also feel like Segel is getting weird direction, I thought maybe it was some relative newcomer but Payman Benz has a ton of good comedy credits on good shows so it's a little bizarre how emotionally pigeon-holed Segel's Westhead has become on this show.

Every show has its duds and maybe others won't be as down on this one as I was but it just seemed to miss the tone of what's made Winning Time a success so far. This to me felt like if you took one of the first two or three episodes of Succession and dropped them near the end of the first season instead of the beginning. Feels weird to have such a sharp turn in tone on a show (and during a real life series of events) that best as I can tell wasn't nearly this grim.

Anyway, nice to see the other side of Jerry West in that locker room meeting with Magic. And it does reveal that this episode had a kind of thesis to it, the execution unfortunately was really off. I still don't think he's been done exactly as dirty as some critics claim but at least they got a scene in where he's genuinely mentoring a guy and not just projecting his self-loathing onto everyone else.


~~~~~~~~~
"This is the streets, and I am the trap." � Jay Bilas
http://www.popmatters.com/pm/archive/contributor/517
Hip Hop Handbook: http://tinyurl.com/ll4kzz

  

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Nodima
Member since Jul 30th 2008
15297 posts
Mon May-09-22 02:48 AM

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61. "Larry Bird should take this episode to the Supreme Court too lmao"
In response to Reply # 0
Mon May-09-22 02:53 AM by Nodima

  

          

Good for Sean Patrick Small (the guy playing Bird) for getting his first big part, you gotta imagine he's in season 2 even more, but I saw earlier this week that it was supposed to be a Bo Burnham role and one can't help but wonder if there might've been...SOME nuance to that character if Burnham played the role.

I'm not even a huge Burnham fan but I can't deny he's a thoughtful dude and this role feels like such a caricature of somebody that never existed lmao.

Overall, was shakier than the best HBO shows but a really fun season in total and I hope they learn all the right lessons from what went right and wrong going into season 2. I wonder how much time warping they'll do going forward given that they clearly telegraphed they'd like to end the show in 1991 or thereabouts given the HIV diagnosis being the very first scene of the show.

Personally, I'd love the shit of following the model the UK teen drama Skins pioneered decades ago where stars age out, younger kids replace them and the tone/themes of the show evolve along with each generation. Selfishly I'd love for a show with this tone and sense of adventure to make it to Shaq/Kobe, with a pivot to Mike/Scottie in the middle. It won't happen but a home viewer can dream!


Also - anybody wildin' out over the fact that the actual wildest part of the show, the Haywood assassination plot, was actually fucking real?! Also, Wood Harris put in work as 'Wood but it's also WILD that the last essential scene of this season (yea, there's that little montage after and Buss promoting Claire) is...Kareem consoling 'Wood outside of a crack hotel? The hell?


~~~~~~~~~
"This is the streets, and I am the trap." � Jay Bilas
http://www.popmatters.com/pm/archive/contributor/517
Hip Hop Handbook: http://tinyurl.com/ll4kzz

  

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Cold Truth
Member since Jan 28th 2004
44840 posts
Mon May-09-22 11:21 AM

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64. "Nah. All of that tracks with what we know about Bird"
In response to Reply # 61


  

          

He’s not meant to be three dimensional yet, and this was a fun dramatization that tracks with his general shit talking, I own this shit demeanor.

But he will be. He’s an important part of Magic’s story, and there’s plenty of story to tell there. He’s basically a nemesis that’s being teased for next season and beyond.

The whole bit about him being Magic’s head was gold IMO.

  

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Beamer6178
Member since Jan 09th 2006
6379 posts
Mon May-09-22 08:42 AM

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62. "Really surprised no one is talking about that Buss rape scene"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

If there's something to get upset about, it would seemingly be that. I see absolutely no value in fictionalizing that scene, especially since she vanishes from the rest of the show after. If she had slid out the car the second he started touching her, would have left him crying and sprawled out in his own mess, but that shit was creepy as fuck.

  

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Brew
Member since Nov 23rd 2002
24419 posts
Tue Sep-12-23 11:35 AM

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65. "Nobody else watching this season ?"
In response to Reply # 0


          

It's not very good IMO. Too disjointed as they're trying to cover multiple seasons in 7 eps. And even being that bold, I think there would be better ways to handle a timeline like that. But the performances are still great so I've been keeping up with it.

----------------------------------------

"Fuck aliens." © WarriorPoet415

  

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Mynoriti
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Tue Sep-12-23 12:11 PM

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66. "I can't get over"
In response to Reply # 65


  

          

dude who plays Magic. How is he NOT Magic's kid. How on earth do you find someone that tall (I know he's not 6 9' but still) who looks, sounds, smiles like young Magic, AND can act.
It feels impossible. Like for All Eyez on Me they found a guy who looked just like Pac and couldn't act a lick.

I agree with you about the season. It's not as good but I'm still really enjoying it. Reilly is still crushing it. So much that Jeannie Buss has come around on the show. On that note a big part of my enjoyment is my own nostalgia and fandom. And i hate that this season is about to end on losing to Boston lol.

  

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Brew
Member since Nov 23rd 2002
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Tue Sep-12-23 01:30 PM

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67. "Yea plus it looks like he can kinda ball. Kid is great overall."
In response to Reply # 66


          

>dude who plays Magic. How is he NOT Magic's kid. How on earth
>do you find someone that tall (I know he's not 6 9' but still)
>who looks, sounds, smiles like young Magic, AND can act.
>It feels impossible. Like for All Eyez on Me they found a guy
>who looked just like Pac and couldn't act a lick.
>
>I agree with you about the season. It's not as good but I'm
>still really enjoying it. Reilly is still crushing it. So much
>that Jeannie Buss has come around on the show. On that note a
>big part of my enjoyment is my own nostalgia and fandom. And i
>hate that this season is about to end on losing to Boston
>lol.

Ha - I'm a Cs fan so I'll be happy.

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"Fuck aliens." © WarriorPoet415

  

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CyrenYoung
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Tue Sep-12-23 03:19 PM

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68. "Enjoying everything about this series..."
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

..what a wild ride.


*skatin' the rings of saturn*


..and miles to go before i sleep...

  

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Gemini_Two_One
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Mon Sep-18-23 10:48 AM

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69. "Sadly, it has been cancelled"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

I wish we got to the late 80s to see their battles with Detroit.


-------------------------------------------------------
Keep the crack raps up that shit is double plus what-ever-the-fuck.
Everybody's afraid to say that it just sucks to watch talented motherfuckers pretending they sell drugs - EL-P

  

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Mynoriti
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38817 posts
Mon Sep-18-23 12:01 PM

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70. "such horseshit. I def didn't expect this"
In response to Reply # 69


  

          

friends and I were all talking recently about how far this could go.

S2 wasn't on the bingo card

  

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Brew
Member since Nov 23rd 2002
24419 posts
Mon Sep-18-23 01:34 PM

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71. "Yea. They said it's cuz ratings were down but I think HBO .."
In response to Reply # 70


          

... was done with it before S2 even aired. I didn't even know this season was happening til I opened the HBO Max app one day and saw that there were 2 new episodes. So they didn't do a great job promoting it, which leads me to believe they were ready to pull the plug before they even knew what the S2 ratings were gonna be.

Such a shame. These "characters" and performances were so damn good I could've watched this for several seasons, no question.

----------------------------------------

"Fuck aliens." © WarriorPoet415

  

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Mynoriti
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38817 posts
Mon Sep-18-23 02:39 PM

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72. "from the ppl who said let's take the most respect brand in prestige tv"
In response to Reply # 71


  

          

and name it max

  

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Brew
Member since Nov 23rd 2002
24419 posts
Mon Sep-18-23 02:49 PM

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73. "lol"
In response to Reply # 72


          

Absolutely mindblowing decision.

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"Fuck aliens." © WarriorPoet415

  

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makaveli
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16303 posts
Tue Sep-19-23 10:58 AM

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75. "i still have trouble understanding this move"
In response to Reply # 72


  

          

“So back we go to these questions — friendship, character… ethics.”

  

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Hitokiri
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22104 posts
Fri Sep-22-23 03:12 PM

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78. "Crazy how ppl dont realize that MAX is the name of the streaming service"
In response to Reply # 72


  

          

and the tv network is still called HBO

--

"You can't beat white people. You can only knock them out."

  

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Brew
Member since Nov 23rd 2002
24419 posts
Fri Sep-22-23 03:14 PM

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79. "Kinda proves the point that it was a bad strategy to change the name no?"
In response to Reply # 78
Fri Sep-22-23 03:14 PM by Brew

          

.

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"Fuck aliens." © WarriorPoet415

  

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JiggysMyDayJob
Member since Jul 03rd 2002
5178 posts
Wed Sep-20-23 09:03 AM

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76. "Apparently they were told back in Jan/Feb "
In response to Reply # 70


  

          

HBO told them to shoot two endings to S2 so they already knew they were against the gun with this show. It sucks because finally folks were coming around in the Lakers org and they were just getting to the glory years of the Lakeshow.


sometimes u gotta leave ur inner nigger in the bank vault. - desus

Situation Podemy : www.situationpodemy.wordpress.com
itunes:https://itunes.apple.com/us/podcast/situation-podemy/id620232249
facebook: facebook.com/situationpodemy
@SituationPodemy

  

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Numba_33
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Wed Sep-20-23 03:52 PM

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77. "that kills the theory I had"
In response to Reply # 76


  

          

of the NBA forcing HBO/Max's hand to cancel the show.

News broke yesterday that Max will starting airing live basketball games in October. Thought there was a shot the league strong armed HBO/Max into cancelling the show since multiple players have complained about their depiction, but I guess that isn't the case if the show was DOA since the start of the year.

"Sean sparks like John Starks, nah, Sean ball like John Wall" - Rest In Power Forever Sean Price.

  

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spitfire
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1510 posts
Mon Sep-18-23 04:04 PM

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74. "noooooo"
In response to Reply # 69


          

this show was sooo goood

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