Kate Bishop is a great character and if they pattern this off the comics, we should get a pretty good mentor/mentee relationship with her and Barton. I think we get Echo in this show too, so this should be really entertaining.
sometimes u gotta leave ur inner nigger in the bank vault. - desus
Hawkeye should have been the one to die after he turned Ronin. he already got his shit saved in Ultron, and it would have preserved his integrity as he only did that shit when his family wasn't in existence. they were determined to kill Natasha and made it "make sense." Keeping her alive would have also made Black Widow (which I have yet to see) ever more compelling.
15. "Just put that sh*t in my veins right now...." In response to Reply # 14
I'm in
<-- Dave Thomas knows what's up... __________________________
Jay: Look here homie, any nigga can get a hit record. This here is about respect. Game: Like Gladys Knight. Jay: Aretha Franklin. Game: Word, I like her too. Jay: Nigga...
16. "Can't say I wasn't entertained at all" In response to Reply # 0
but I just kept thinking 'why' during the show over and over. I'm a big MCU fan but I think thy haven't made much that has been top-tier since End Game. It just feels like mostly setting up new characters and just checking boxes more than trying to really tell great stories.
If you enjoyed the show please tell me what you liked about it. That would help me out. I may be being too critical about it. I think it's mostly that the TV shows have smaller budgets that don't meet the CGI standards of their films (which is probably why they couldn't make Eternals a series instead).
It's def more a set up show or a passing of the torch show than it is a Hawkeye story. I love the tone and the whole True Lies vibe that it as. I think people only compare it to Die Hard because of the Christmas "theme" but its definitely more on par with True Lies.
People complain about the bad guys but lets remember that they are really there to be Bishop's opponents than they are there to be for Hawkeye.
I wouldn't say all these shows are new character set ups they all end up telling really great stories that help push the MCU along in-between movies. It's really great connective tissue like the scene where she first see's Hawkeye. That's great *chefs kiss* connective tissue that I love to see in big properties like Marvel or Star Wars. That scene was like a Rogue One type feels for me but in one scene.
21. "I was more critical of Kate Bishop" In response to Reply # 18
than the villains.
I might be alone in this but I'm not enjoying her character at all. It could be the script or directing but I'm not into it yet. I'm sure I'll warm up to her as the show proceeds, because I don't hate her.
It's def more a set up show or a passing of the torch show than it is a Hawkeye story. I love the tone and the whole True Lies vibe that it as. I think people only compare it to Die Hard because of the Christmas "theme" but its definitely more on par with True Lies.
People complain about the bad guys but lets remember that they are really there to be Bishop's opponents than they are there to be for Hawkeye.
I wouldn't say all these shows are new character set ups they all end up telling really great stories that help push the MCU along in-between movies. It's really great connective tissue like the scene where she first see's Hawkeye. That's great *chefs kiss* connective tissue that I love to see in big properties like Marvel or Star Wars. That scene was like a Rogue One type feels for me but in one scene.
24. "I can't tell whether I am too old for the show or its not good. " In response to Reply # 0
At the end of ep2 I don't have a clear idea why Hawkeye is doing what he is doing. Nothing like cliffhangers at the end of either episode. Like the show could end after this second episode and there isn't a whole lot I would be left wondering about.
The girl seems to be like a Bruce Wayne type but I am not buying her taking on gunmen and criminals. Her character is missing the drive and the seeking out specialities from masters like Bruce Wayne had.
Anyway, I will keep watching because my boys enjoy it but for me it ain't it.
********** "Everyone has a plan until you punch them in the face. Then they don't have a plan anymore." (c) Mike Tyson
25. "im enjoying this show..." In response to Reply # 0 Thu Dec-09-21 09:03 AM by Voodoochilde
i know that the 'multi-verse' thing has/is gonna play a big part in some upcoming Marvel projects, but honestly i really dig the 'street level' marvel stuff (ala most of netflix shows)... so this series feels refreshing to me.
i like the humorous elements (the "Die Hard"-ish 'i just wanna get home to my family' angle is fun)
i cared not much at all about Hawkeye from the MCU movies...this series is actually making me appreciate him now.
my only real quibble with the show is with Kate Bishops almost instant ability to take on lifelong hood/figters with relative ease and minimal injury. I understand they set her up early as a child martial arts prodigy, but still id expect her to get handled relatively easily by some of these hoods, at least initially...(and i think doing that: having her have at least SOME 'significant' ramifications from the scuff ups at the start, would give a little more 'grounding' to a 'street level' feel of the series....and yes, i do see the bandaid over that little cut on her chin, but cmon..
26. "I disagree with the Kate criticism" In response to Reply # 25
Someone mentioned that she shouldn't have been able to hang with Maya and in the fourth episode so I rewatched it. She didn't land a single punch and essentially got her ass kicked. The only impact she had was with the arrows.
She held her own against the Track Suits and Kazi but she took A LOT of hits and those aren't really skilled fighters.
The one thing having her be a marital arts prodigy means she's used to getting hit.
She hasn't been kicking ass but she's been able to somewhat hold her own and the battle between her and Maya like you stated, she didn't put in any work until the arrows come into play.
Like you said, with her being a martial arts prodigy, gymnastics prodigy, and being damn good with a bow and arrow have set her up to be good enough to hang with the foes she's faced so far.
The band aid thing is going to be a running theme, it was in the Hawkeye comic they're pulling this series from. I expect more band aids moving forward. d
sometimes u gotta leave ur inner nigger in the bank vault. - desus
...i'll be givin the series a second viewing at some point too, and will take a second look at the fights in more detail. to be transparent, I dont know anything about the comic run, so i dont have any context to the 'jogging suit crew' and their fighting abilities, so i dont know if their supposed be able to really kick-ass or not
oh and to be clear, i DO like the band-aids, its a nice touch
29. "Ever play Streets of Rage, or Final Fight?" In response to Reply # 28
Those guys are the ground level "street tough" types.
They're scary to the dude who runs the local bodega and is just trying to make a little money.
But someone skilled, and with decent training? They're not much.
Kate probably would have whooped them all in a straight up one on one fight.
But she's clearly out of her element scrapping with them in that situation, and she ate a LOT of hits. If anything, the criticism is better aimed at just how much punishment she was able to take, with relatively minimal effect.
Conversely, had those cats gone up against Natasha? Crying laughter emojis. Those dudes would have gotten washed, with ease. She'd have been bored with that shit.
I think they gave Kate a pretty solid balance between her potential, and her current actual skill level, relative to this type of threat.
32. "..''this part here is kinda what i was tryin to say...." In response to Reply # 29
>"If anything, the criticism is better aimed at just how much punishment she was able to take, with relatively minimal effect.">
i mean, if i recall correctly (i may not, so will watch again) but if i recall correctly, Clint (who has done this kinda thing for a career) was all iced-up and stuff, while Kate, whom has JUST started this street fightin thng, has a band-aid on her chin....just seemed like she'd have at least a little more initial repercussions to me.
but sure, yeah, i didnt know the track suit mafia are supposed to be kinda jokes in the comic. that does help.
oh yeah, imo, conversely, Natasha would've wiped those cats up with her eyes closed, and woulda been crackin jokes the whole time!
33. "I think Ice pack Clint is about him becoming an old man," In response to Reply # 32
and deliberately juxtaposed with Kate brushing off damage and recuperating much faster. Obviously it's all exaggerated and pretty unrealistic, but that's what comic book adaptations are for.
___________________ "So this is what everybody's always talking about! Diablo! If only I'd known. The beauty! The beauty!"
30. "I like it a lot too but I think they could have tweaked Kate slightly" In response to Reply # 25
Maybe she could stay as an expert fighter but only in the academic sense. She can win trophies in blackbelt matches all day but isn't prepared for a dirty street fight.
All that said, I love these street level shows too. I think the fight scenes are much more interesting than having a dozen characters fighting in front of a green screen.
35. "Tin foil hat time?" In response to Reply # 0 Tue Dec-14-21 01:40 PM by soulfunk
So after watching episode 4, I re-watched the first episode. I think there are a couple twists coming up. First, I think Kate's mom is the big bad of the series. I think the first episode was a bit heavy-handed in how thick they laid it on that Kate liked her dad more than her mom. Something just seems off about it. Honestly that entire opening sequence from 2012 was weird - you had her mom and dad arguing with each other about money. Her dad goes up to check on Kate, and say's "I'll be downstairs in my office." Her mom has an awkward conversation with her, tells her to get the checkers and that she's "going downstairs and will be right back." Then we have the Chitauri invasion and her dad ends up getting killed, but we never saw that happened to him. Did her mom go down and kill him, with the invasion being a great way to cover it up?
When time flashes forward she's obviously WAY more rich, and something just seems off. She's throwing a huge gala and there's a secret black market auction that happens to be going on inside her gala? She also had an argument with Jack's uncle that night before he ends up dead later - was she the one who killed him?
I also definitely noticed it in episode 4 when Clint shows up at her house and their conversation - seems like they are foreshadowing something here. Is she really the one in control of the tracksuits? Maya's "uncle" (likely Kingpin) is definitely involved in some way, but I feel like Kate's mom being evil will be a twist here, with Jack being more of a red herring.
The second twist is I don't think Clint was actually the one in the Ronin costume who killed Maya's father. Clint might not even know that himself, but my guess is it was someone unexpected (maybe that was Kate's mom too?) What I don't know is how the watch with the tracking signal is connected to all of this. I definitely think it's an indicator of who that Ronin was, and that's why Maya had it. But Clint seems to want to get rid of that watch, and it has some type of meaning. So maybe I'm wrong and it DOES prove that he was in the Ronin suit killing Maya's dad?
37. "RE: Tin foil hat time?" In response to Reply # 35
Why wouldn't Clint know if he was the one who killed Maya's father? Maybe this was explained in a movie or something and I missed it.
The rest of this I think is likely. Not sure if someone in this post said it or if I saw it in a Youtube video. Marvel does like to misdirect so they might be making us feel off about her mom on purpose to throw us off.
38. "I'm pretty sure he hasn't specifically admitted to it" In response to Reply # 37
in terms of killing Maya's father. He just seems to know that he the tracksuit mafia want revenge against Ronin and he likely knows that he took some of them out, but he might not even know specifically who Maya was or that her father was killed by someone in a Ronin costume.
Just feels like the kind of twist we'd see from Marvel. I think they really want Clint to be redeemed from the Ronin period of his life, and to do that he'll have to come to terms with it and stop hiding it in some way. I can't see him admitting to being the one to kill Maya's dad and this story actually ending well (and I clearly think this season has a happy ending with him making it home for Christmas), so a twist with him not actually being the one who did it would put a neat bow on the story and that feels like that's where Marvel is going with this.
Okay so a couple things I mentioned up above are definitely happening. Kate's mom is evil and is behind this in some way, and is working for Kingpin. Also looks like Jack is a red herring like I mentioned, being set up by Kate's mom. Looks like I was wrong about Client not being the one who killed Maya's father since he said he was hired to do it...
42. "Nothing fully confirmed yet. " In response to Reply # 41
We got a quick image of Kingpin played by Vincent D'Onofrio in this, and word that if/when Daredevil shows up in the MCU that Charlie Cox will play him. But what we do T know is if the show will be considered canon or not. They could bring the characters in without addressing what happened on the show as cannon (although I guess they’d have to acknowledge something since DD ended with Fisk in jail, maybe a quick mention of the blip impacting that.) But they could also go with the multiverse thought of what happened in the show being a separate universe with those characters being variants of each other.
43. "Daredevil was largely fantastic, as far as the mains went " In response to Reply # 41 Wed Dec-15-21 02:30 PM by Cold Truth
I can't stand dude who plays Foggy and Karen is an irritating character to me.
Mild spoilers.
By and large, Dardevil and Kingpin deliver big time.
As does Frank Castle/Punisher.
Those three iterations of those characters definitely need to continue, because those roles were nailed to near perfection.
If they're going to connect those old shows/characters to this story and the mainline MCU, those are absolutely the ones you want.
And if you haven't seen them already, those three Daredevil seasons are well worth the time, as is Punisher season 1. I still need to finish Season 2 before I can recommend it, but Season 1 (minus one thing that gets beat into the ground a bit too much for my liking) is on par with the Daredevil shit IMO
54. "it always was honestly" In response to Reply # 41
the shows on Netflix were kinda their own little corner of the MCU. Netflix allowed them to be a bit more adult with their content in ways that D+ probably never will. they were always meant to be in the MCU though. the whole premise of the first Daredevil season was that Kingpin was seizing power after all the destruction and rebuilding caused by the first Avengers movie.
I'm happy to see Yelena in the mix. She was my favorite thing about the Black Widow movie. Hopefully, she doesn't get killed. I want to see a lot more of her in the MCU.
46. "For me it’s Loki. But I’m really enjoying this so far. " In response to Reply # 45 Wed Dec-15-21 05:51 PM by soulfunk
Jonathan Majors really put Loki over the top for me. Came in for like half an episode and is my favorite new character of this MCU phase…even separate from his acting, the guts it took for them to introduce the likely main villain of the future in the MCU, by showing his death in a TV show? What better way to show you that you will NOT know what to expect in terms of timeline, multiverse, and scale going forward.
>RE: Hawkeye is my #1 out if all of the Marvel shows >
i just said the same thing to the Mrs.
Spoiler.....
I'd watch Florence Pugh's Yelena in ANYthing, she's a scene stealing joy to watch. the Kate/Yelena 'girls night' scene was a ball, loved seeing those two on screen together, and both actresses nailed it.
this show has done what i thought it couldn't....made me care about Hawkeye, so yeah...kudos deserved.
75. "I'd watch a Yelena/Kate frenemy movie" In response to Reply # 48
>I'd watch Florence Pugh's Yelena in ANYthing, she's a scene >stealing joy to watch. the Kate/Yelena 'girls night' scene was >a ball, loved seeing those two on screen together, and both >actresses nailed it.
they cracked me up anytime they were on screen together, and their 'fight' was adorable
51. "...oh, i wasn't including Netflix or FX in my own 'ratings' :)" In response to Reply # 50
>RE: There is no one in this series that I like more than Wilson Fisk> >or Madame Gao.>
...just for clarities sake, when i said Hawkeye was my fave Marvel TV show, i was meaning just my favorite Disney+ Marvel TV show...i was NOT including the previous Netflix or FX shows in my ratings list
if i had included those OTHER previous channels shows, then my #1 fave would probably have been "Legion" on FX.
After that it would probably be a cage match between several of the Netflix shows, most likely between"Jessica Jones" season1 "Daredevil". (yeah...Kingpin was perfection, glad they're (spoiler) bringing him forward in the 'new' MCU. And yep, i really dug Lady Gau too)
We'll see how Hawkeye ends with its last ep next week, but IF it 'sticks the landing' it could either be in the cage match ABOVE with those two, OR it might be in the 'battle royale match' below with "The Punisher" season1 & "Luke Cage" season1 ("Luke Cage" started so strong, but after they (SPOILER) killed Cottonmouth it lost a LOT of its Mojo imo)
Not happy with what could've possibly happened to a character at the end but I'll accept it. I loved the reveal of the watch and its importance, just sucks that at this point A.O.S. seems to be non-cannon. That part is going to make some fan boys mad but I'm good with it.
sometimes u gotta leave ur inner nigger in the bank vault. - desus
63. "(spoiler)" In response to Reply # 62 Wed Dec-22-21 02:22 PM by Reeq
>Not happy with what could've possibly happened to a character >at the end but I'll accept it.
not sure if youre talking about kingpin...but they brought him back just to get his ass handed to him like that?
i didnt think he needed to be that hands on to begin with. i thought it would have been better if he made his cameo and just put the hit out on folks (ronin, momma bishop, etc). not actually boxing with a girl much smaller than him lol.
64. "I'm sure he's fine..." In response to Reply # 63
No way they bring him back for one episode and end it there. With the camera panning up for that gunshot they left it wide open. We know Echo is getting her own show, and I'd bet that at least the first season of it will be her vs. Kingpin and his organization.
All that being said, I definitely didn't like Kate being able to handle him at all...
66. "Kate ain't really handle him though " In response to Reply # 64
Kingpin was putting paws on her. The trick arrowheads did him in.
No way he's dead though. Pretty sure he's been shot before in comic
<-- Dave Thomas knows what's up... __________________________
Jay: Look here homie, any nigga can get a hit record. This here is about respect. Game: Like Gladys Knight. Jay: Aretha Franklin. Game: Word, I like her too. Jay: Nigga...
69. "But that’s what I’m saying…" In response to Reply # 66
>The trick arrowheads did him >in.
She shouldn’t have been able to do ANYTHING to stop him or slow him down. Honestly be shouldn’t have even been involved at this level of getting his hands dirty. Instead of a Kate/Fisk fight I’d have rather seen a Kate/Elenor fight, with her mom using a sword. Keep Kingpin as the Kingpin - pulling the strings but not directly involved at this point, and give that fight more drama with us actually seeing Elenor’s skills.
Another Kingpin related thing, in that fight with Maya and dude who betrayed her, I would have liked to see him commit suicide out of fear of Kingpin instead of her killing him, again just to boost how terrifying Fisk is…
71. "the beginning was off to me" In response to Reply # 62
i loved that it opened up with introducing him but it felt like they needed to provide more context for him. after that the episode fell back into the groove of the show and was good.
am i the only one that thought the tony stark actor in the play was actually robert downey jr? i even paused the credits to see who it was lol
72. "not to be the "in the comics" guy but...." In response to Reply # 62
in the comics Echo shoots Kingpin when she finds out he lied to her and it only blinds him temporarily. highly unlikely that they would kill Kingpin off like that. he'll be fine.
68. "Arguably the best episode of this current run of MCU shows" In response to Reply # 0
This shit was at 100 from start to finish, and everything was executed to near perfection.
Spoilers
I'm even good with that Kingpin scene. Taking it off camera could be seen as a copout, but I think that was a smart way to leave both he and Maya for the Echo series.
Printer-friendly copy 
Email this topic to a friend
Pass The Popcorn
