We all seem really literate about the mechanics of TV/filmmaking and appreciate good storytelling and technical wizardry.

I know some of the people on the boards are outright filmmakers and some are critics or involved in filmmaking indirectly. And the rest of us are just film and TV heads and aren't involved in filmmaking at all.

But where did you get your film 'education'?

Did you just start to dig into magazines and books to learn more about the how's and why's behind filmmaking? Or did you study film in high school or college? And if you have studied formally, did you learn more in a classroom setting or just by observing film and coming to your own conclusions?

I remember watching movies as a kid, maybe 10 or 11, and fantasizing about being an actor. That ended in junior high when I took this afterschool stage class and bombed... HARD.

After that I used to watch movies and try to think like an editor or director would. Which camera angles worked best? What didn't work about that action sequence? Which would be a better way?

Most of the movies I saw were sci-fi blockbusters and since 3D animation was a half-hobby of mine, noticing good special effects was another aspect of filmmaking which I minded.

I didn't really think of myself as a film 'nerd' until late high school or college. Actually it was music videos that grabbed my attention into filmmaking by way of cinematography and editing.

But then I would study details about the composition of each frame or the pacing of a particular filmmaker or whatever. I would scan over American Cinematographer or Cinefex at the bookstore to just learn a little about that craft.

In college a friend of mine invited me to audit a film studies course. The class watched a couple of classic movies (North by Northwest was one I remember). But I didn't enjoy the pretentious of the class. I was more into popcorn movies at the time and valued movies that had artistic integrity but weren't self-indulgent like many of the films the teacher seemed to revere.

And this place helped alot with my understanding of film. There's a great deal of knowledge here and it's been interesting to get different perspectives and outlooks on the films that come out from year to year.

So what about you?

Read the books and compared and contrasted against the screen.

Then Hulu came along as I was graduating high school, and for a while it had the Criterion Collection, and I watched a lot of Japanese cinema.

I was always critical, though. If I'd get an open assignment of any kind in school, I tried to make it about the music I was listening to and the life I was experiencing, or hearing about, or seeing on screen.

But I'd say that David Simon, and the fact I happened to click with The Wire's first season so heavily at the age that I was, was the primary factor. But I keep a Hulu subscription I don't use just because those early years were super valuable to me for figuring out how to articulate what I like about a show or movie in the same way I could music.


~~~~~~~~~
"This is the streets, and I am the trap." � Jay Bilas
http://www.popmatters.com/pm/archive/contributor/517
Hip Hop Handbook: http://tinyurl.com/ll4kzz

>Read the books and compared and contrasted against the
>screen.
>

Hear ya. Jurassic Park had a similar effect on me as far as comparing the written story to the film.

>Then Hulu came along as I was graduating high school, and for
>a while it had the Criterion Collection, and I watched a lot
>of Japanese cinema.
>

Man, that's dope. Access to older films was different during my teenaged years. Getting a hold of foreign films was difficult in high-school. (My home wasn't near an niche video store) But there were always movies from the 30's and 40's on various channels during downtimes - like Sunday morning after sermons were aired. Nostalgia doesn't tell me that my time was better because I had to seek things out. It's just different but I wonder how eclectic my tastes would have been if obscure Asian cinema or the French New Wave was available when I was in late-high school or early on in college.

>I was always critical, though. If I'd get an open assignment
>of any kind in school, I tried to make it about the music I
>was listening to and the life I was experiencing, or hearing
>about, or seeing on screen.

That's cool. Knowledge sinks in more when the concept is filtered through personal experience. I read your reviews on here sometimes and it's cool that you seem to pull from personal experience in them. Makes them more engaging.
>

in broker and more boring times. I wouldn't say I know anything about the technical aspects of cinema, but the more you see the more you sort of absorb with a critical eye.

it's like eating ice cream. the more, and better, ice cream you eat, the more able you can discern what's average/good/excellent. but I still don't know how to *make* ice cream.

--------

>in broker and more boring times. I wouldn't say I know
>anything about the technical aspects of cinema, but the more
>you see the more you sort of absorb with a critical eye.
>

>it's like eating ice cream. the more, and better, ice cream
>you eat, the more able you can discern what's
>average/good/excellent. but I still don't know how to *make*
>ice cream.



Appreciating cinema seems more accessible via observation than music or even abstract art. Like you said over time you're able to distill the basics behind a great scene or engaging action.

But simply watching movies I don't think makes a fan of the art knowledgable about movie making in any real way. Even though films, TV series, and filmmakers are covered more than at any time, filmmaking seems undercovered.

Like most average people who have a surface level understanding of acting have a knowledge of 'The Method'. But speaking for myself, outside of knowing that an actor who is a Method actor doesn't break character even off camera, I have no idea how The Method affects the actors performance of if it even helps.

But you could say that about most aspects of pop culture. The end product is marketed really well but the tedious details involved to make the art or to direct a team to a win aren't what most fans crave to know.

>I remember watching movies as a kid, maybe 10 or 11, and
>fantasizing about being an actor. That ended in junior high
>when I took this afterschool stage class and bombed... HARD.

actor was one of the career aspirations i had as a child as well but never pursued it


>After that I used to watch movies and try to think like an
>editor or director would. Which camera angles worked best?

how would you know from the finished product?


>In college a friend of mine invited me to audit a film studies
>course. The class watched a couple of classic movies (North by
>Northwest was one I remember). But I didn't enjoy the
>pretentious of the class. I was more into popcorn movies at
>the time and valued movies that had artistic integrity but
>weren't self-indulgent like many of the films the teacher
>seemed to revere.

i understand this viewpoint less as i increasingly "become literate in cinema". these WERE the popcorn movies at the time. they show the fundamentals of film. i'm with you on people who would pay to take a film studies course being pretentious as shit though.


>And this place helped alot with my understanding of film.
>There's a great deal of knowledge here and it's been
>interesting to get different perspectives and outlooks on the
>films that come out from year to year.
>
>So what about you?

just exposure, and i agree, this place helps a great deal.

>>After that I used to watch movies and try to think like an
>>editor or director would. Which camera angles worked best?
>
>how would you know from the finished product?
>

I had somewhat of a photographic memory back then. So, if I saw an action movie, I could half-remember an amazing set piece. At least some of the beats and camera moves. If I was watching an action sequence I would watch the movie and then in my mind compare the action sequence of the movie being viewed to the image in my mind.

Or in a drama, I would watch the framing of a scene and contrast that to a scene which brought out the most emotion.


>
>>In college a friend of mine invited me to audit a film
>studies
>>course. The class watched a couple of classic movies (North
>by
>>Northwest was one I remember). But I didn't enjoy the
>>pretentious of the class. I was more into popcorn movies at
>>the time and valued movies that had artistic integrity but
>>weren't self-indulgent like many of the films the teacher
>>seemed to revere.
>


>i understand this viewpoint less as i increasingly "become
>literate in cinema". these WERE the popcorn movies at the
>time. they show the fundamentals of film. i'm with you on
>people who would pay to take a film studies course being
>pretentious as shit though.
>

I did enjoy most of the movies. We saw North by Northwest and The Third Man, both are amazing films to me. I assumed that the movies being shown weren't hits at the time of their release but that's mostly out of ignorance.

My rub with the course was that the instructor seemed to favor the director's liberty to stay true to their vision rather than serve the audience. That's not to say that filmmakers shouldn't have a unique style or voice. Filmmakers who have a unique voice but blend their style into a palatable form for audiences stand out more than iconoclasts who have a strong vision.

That being said, Malick is one of my favorite directors, so...

>>>After that I used to watch movies and try to think like an
>>>editor or director would. Which camera angles worked best?
>>
>>how would you know from the finished product?
>>
>
>I had somewhat of a photographic memory back then. So, if I
>saw an action movie, I could half-remember an amazing set
>piece. At least some of the beats and camera moves. If I was
>watching an action sequence I would watch the movie and then
>in my mind compare the action sequence of the movie being
>viewed to the image in my mind.

(a month passes) that is some good (total) recall there. even in my favorite movies i'd be hard pressed to describe the camerawork of a particular scene from memory.


>Or in a drama, I would watch the framing of a scene and
>contrast that to a scene which brought out the most emotion.

i think i have a better eye for this in drama even though i love action.


>My rub with the course was that the instructor seemed to favor
>the director's liberty to stay true to their vision rather
>than serve the audience.

auteur worship i have to imagine is very prevalent in college courses. these professors are overgrown children trying to assimilate impressionable students to their taste just as was done to them. some of the coolest films i've seen are by directors who aren't widely regarded as auteurs and may not have more than one or two movies generally considered good (if even that many). directors get built up too much, and people focus too much on a few directors' oeuvre and narrow the scope of what makes an enjoyable film or indeed a masterpiece. i have more fun sometimes seeing a movie with something really weird and different in or about it than one that checks all the boxes and doesn't stray outside of the lines.


>That's not to say that filmmakers
>shouldn't have a unique style or voice. Filmmakers who have a
>unique voice but blend their style into a palatable form for
>audiences stand out more than iconoclasts who have a strong
>vision.

filmmaking is a business and ultimately one of entertainment so i can't be too harsh, but i would hope that they are trying to make good work first and foremost and not trying for the widest commercial appeal. i think we've all seen movies that pandered or tried to be everything to everybody and failed miserably in offering anything real as a result. there is certainly a fine line between making art and having a point and being totally self-indulgent. you can totally deliver to a smaller audience, and you can also make great films with a broad appeal: it's all about the vision and collaborative effort. as for making money, that's a different conversation.

As a kid, I would snatch up Friday's issue of the paper and read the movie reviews. My mom got me one of Leonard Maltin's books and I read it cover-to-cover. Even before 1994 I would go to local video stores and just browse for hours. I'd watch Siskel and Ebert religiously growing up. I was a latchkey kid so I'd watch an insane amount of cable until my mom came home. Early to mid 1990s made for cable offerings were really formative for me. I remember taking film appreciation class for adults held in the evenings at my elementary school and I showed a scene from Little Buddha and from John Woo's The Killer. I was the only kid there and I couldn't have been more than 11 or 12.

Rodriguez/Tarantino changed everything. What I was doing as a kid just out of pure enjoyment now was 'cool' and I started reading books about directors and world cinema and seeking films from all over the world. I'd watch TCM pretty religiously.

I didn't end up studying film in college until it was almost too late. I chose history as a major and was largely ambivalent toward that. It wasn't until I burnt out mid-way through school and returning from a year away that I focused on film and theater courses. Despite not having a great film program I loved the few classes I took. I took an intro to film, a class on sequels and remakes (this was long before most films were either sequels or remakes) and a class on theatrical set design, and another on lighting design due to my interest in cinematography.

I ended up spending a term as the lighting designer for a two-woman show which was incredibly stressful and but probably one of the highlights of my college career. I learned a shit ton from the two film classes I took and got exposed to ton of films and filmmakers (I first saw "In the Mood for Love" in the intro class).

I worked in a now defunct independent movie theater chain post-college selling popcorn and junior mints. This was when Lost in Translation came out and during the wave of studio-'indies' of the early 2000s. We would also show Bollywood films because we have such a strong Indian community.

I became a projectionist and did that for a couple of years (this was right before digital) and my boss had a collection of some of the rarest prints in existence. He'd sell shit to Tarantino and others and run an exploitation double-feature once a month. Sometimes he'd cue something up for us and the crew would get drunk and watch original prints of Lady Terminator, Coffy, Texas Chainsaw Massacre (with Spanish subtitles), Pieces, old Porn loops and other classics. It was basically our own little 42nd street.

A coworker and I became came good friends and we'd try to share stuff that we thought the other would like or hadn't heard of or would blow each other's minds. Every weekend we'd each choose a bunch of stuff to watch. He put me on to a bunch of 80s comedies and horror and I put him on to a bunch of stuff from around the world and exploitation and classic stuff.

I spent a ton of time on this board back then before agenda posting and fuckery ruined it. Longo, B. Worm, Ricky, Mr. Mech's all-caps typing ass and King Friday were here and there was a real sense of knowledge and community and diversity in interest and opinion. I learned so much here during this period and was proud to be part of the community that was this board then. It's truly a shame what happened to it.

This was also back when when movie message boards like AICN and CHUD were huge before right before all this shit got co-opted and movie fandom descended into utter toxicity (not that that shit wasn't problematic and exclusionary from jump street). But I learned a lot from the message board era of film fandom.

I got invited to go to the Sundance Filmmakers Lab in 2005 as a crew member and spent a month on the mountain as a boom operator/crew member and we'd just work with young filmmakers workshopping their first pieces. I was fortunate enough to work on this wacky New Zealander named Taika Waititi's first feature film at the Labs, where he was workshopping 'Eagle vs. Shark'. Met someone there at the labs who lived in NY and cancelled my trip to teach English in Japan and moved to her hometown of NYC. Put out the feelers and got a hit for a location PA intern on a little indy that didn't even get a release. I was sleeping on a hardwood floor in a sleeping bag working 70-80 hrs a week for free and couldn't have been happier.

Ended up continuing with locations for a couple of years during the height of NY's production resurgence. There were so many productions in the city at the time and we were, at least at first, given carte blanche. Our office did TV most of the year and a film during the hiatus. Locations is hard, thankless work and the higher I rose and the larger projects I worked on, the more I hated it. Plus, the idea of being a UPM or a line producer or some shit was the last thing I wanted to do. I learned a bunch, dispelled a bunch of notions about what actually happens in production, got to work with and meet a lot of really cool people and saw more of NY than many people do in a lifetime. Would never go back but wouldn't trade those years for anything.


So yeah, I've been a lover a film my whole life. I've been very fortunate to be self-taught, formally taught and have worked in film. I've also been very fortunate to come up both pre and post internet and have lived through an era of fandom and pop culture that won't exist again in its fashion.

-------------------------------

A lot of you players ain't okay.

We would have been better off with an okaycivics board instead of an okayactivist board

>As a kid, I would snatch up Friday's issue of the paper and
>read the movie reviews. My mom got me one of Leonard Maltin's
>books and I read it cover-to-cover. Even before 1994 I would
>go to local video stores and just browse for hours. I'd watch
>Siskel and Ebert religiously growing up. I was a latchkey kid
>so I'd watch an insane amount of cable until my mom came home.
>Early to mid 1990s made for cable offerings were really
>formative for me. I remember taking film appreciation class
>for adults held in the evenings at my elementary school and I
>showed a scene from Little Buddha and from John Woo's The
>Killer. I was the only kid there and I couldn't have been more
>than 11 or 12.
>
>Rodriguez/Tarantino changed everything. What I was doing as a
>kid just out of pure enjoyment now was 'cool' and I started
>reading books about directors and world cinema and seeking
>films from all over the world. I'd watch TCM pretty
>religiously.
>
>I didn't end up studying film in college until it was almost
>too late. I chose history as a major and was largely
>ambivalent toward that. It wasn't until I burnt out mid-way
>through school and returning from a year away that I focused
>on film and theater courses. Despite not having a great film
>program I loved the few classes I took. I took an intro to
>film, a class on sequels and remakes (this was long before
>most films were either sequels or remakes) and a class on
>theatrical set design, and another on lighting design due to
>my interest in cinematography.
>
>I ended up spending a term as the lighting designer for a
>two-woman show which was incredibly stressful and but probably
>one of the highlights of my college career. I learned a shit
>ton from the two film classes I took and got exposed to ton of
>films and filmmakers (I first saw "In the Mood for Love" in
>the intro class).
>

After learning a great deal about film in college, were you able to still enjoy movies? Or did knowing the ins and outs even deepen your pleasure watching movies / TV?

>I worked in a now defunct independent movie theater chain
>post-college selling popcorn and junior mints. This was when
>Lost in Translation came out and during the wave of
>studio-'indies' of the early 2000s. We would also show
>Bollywood films because we have such a strong Indian
>community.
>
>I became a projectionist and did that for a couple of years
>(this was right before digital) and my boss had a collection
>of some of the rarest prints in existence. He'd sell shit to
>Tarantino and others and run an exploitation double-feature
>once a month. Sometimes he'd cue something up for us and the
>crew would get drunk and watch original prints of Lady
>Terminator, Coffy, Texas Chainsaw Massacre (with Spanish
>subtitles), Pieces, old Porn loops and other classics. It was
>basically our own little 42nd street.
>
>A coworker and I became came good friends and we'd try to
>share stuff that we thought the other would like or hadn't
>heard of or would blow each other's minds. Every weekend we'd
>each choose a bunch of stuff to watch. He put me on to a bunch
>of 80s comedies and horror and I put him on to a bunch of
>stuff from around the world and exploitation and classic
>stuff.
>

Most of my friends in college were movie nerds to some degree so we would at some point during the weekend watch movies and then break them down. One friend in particular was really into indie movies - Linklater, Malick, and some other obscure directors. That was cool to get not only watch some great films but have someone to exchange thoughts.

>I spent a ton of time on this board back then before agenda
>posting and fuckery ruined it. Longo, B. Worm, Ricky, Mr.
>Mech's all-caps typing ass and King Friday were here and there
>was a real sense of knowledge and community and diversity in
>interest and opinion. I learned so much here during this
>period and was proud to be part of the community that was this
>board then. It's truly a shame what happened to it.
>
>This was also back when when movie message boards like AICN
>and CHUD were huge before right before all this shit got
>co-opted and movie fandom descended into utter toxicity (not
>that that shit wasn't problematic and exclusionary from jump
>street). But I learned a lot from the message board era of
>film fandom.
>

Yeah, I miss those days alot. Granted, back in the time you're mentioning, 10, 12 years ago, we were just happy to talk about film or TV and soak up one another's opinions and viewpoints. We were probably just happy to know we weren't the only people into obscure, off the beaten path entertainment.

At some point we partly aged out of the years when we had hours and hours of free time to watch film and dissect them here. And then like you said some posters tried to become personalities and the in-depth discussions became less frequent.

I wish the boards somehow captured a younger generation of posters, posters who are really into film who have a fresh take on things. I always thought the best part of the boards were the wide variety of posters and that some mainstays remained but new posters floated in to recharge the discussions.

>I got invited to go to the Sundance Filmmakers Lab in 2005 as
>a crew member and spent a month on the mountain as a boom
>operator/crew member and we'd just work with young filmmakers
>workshopping their first pieces. I was fortunate enough to
>work on this wacky New Zealander named Taika Waititi's first
>feature film at the Labs, where he was workshopping 'Eagle vs.
>Shark'. Met someone there at the labs who lived in NY and
>cancelled my trip to teach English in Japan and moved to her
>hometown of NYC. Put out the feelers and got a hit for a
>location PA intern on a little indy that didn't even get a
>release. I was sleeping on a hardwood floor in a sleeping bag
>working 70-80 hrs a week for free and couldn't have been
>happier.
>
>Ended up continuing with locations for a couple of years
>during the height of NY's production resurgence. There were so
>many productions in the city at the time and we were, at least
>at first, given carte blanche. Our office did TV most of the
>year and a film during the hiatus. Locations is hard,
>thankless work and the higher I rose and the larger projects
>I worked on, the more I hated it. Plus, the idea of being a
>UPM or a line producer or some shit was the last thing I
>wanted to do. I learned a bunch, dispelled a bunch of notions
>about what actually happens in production, got to work with
>and meet a lot of really cool people and saw more of NY than
>many people do in a lifetime. Would never go back but wouldn't
>trade those years for anything.
>
>
>So yeah, I've been a lover a film my whole life. I've been
>very fortunate to be self-taught, formally taught and have
>worked in film. I've also been very fortunate to come up both
>pre and post internet and have lived through an era of fandom
>and pop culture that won't exist again in its fashion.
>

You mentioned that you wouldn't go back to NY so I take that as a sign you decided to transition into another line of work. Are you still a filmmaker?

>After learning a great deal about film in college, were you
>able to still enjoy movies? Or did knowing the ins and outs
>even deepen your pleasure watching movies / TV?

I definitely appreciated/enjoyed even more as a result. If anything it was working in production that detracted from some of the joy I found in film. I mean, when you realize a lot of what's going up on screen isn't a result of artistic genius or even intent but because of constraints completely outside the control of people above the line, it's quite an awakening. But even then the fact that anything is made that's not complete trash is kind of admirable.

>Yeah, I miss those days alot. Granted, back in the time you're
>mentioning, 10, 12 years ago, we were just happy to talk about
>film or TV and soak up one another's opinions and viewpoints.
>We were probably just happy to know we weren't the only people
>into obscure, off the beaten path entertainment.
>
>At some point we partly aged out of the years when we had
>hours and hours of free time to watch film and dissect them
>here. And then like you said some posters tried to become
>personalities and the in-depth discussions became less
>frequent.
>
>I wish the boards somehow captured a younger generation of
>posters, posters who are really into film who have a fresh
>take on things. I always thought the best part of the boards
>were the wide variety of posters and that some mainstays
>remained but new posters floated in to recharge the
>discussions.

How we got here was a result of multiple factors for sure. I mean I am nowhere near as engaged with film as I once was largely because as a grown ass man who is not involved in the industry in anyway that pays money, I don't have time nor inclination. And in all honesty, those days are never coming back. How we interact online is different now and content is largely disposable anyway with the rise of streaming. We had a good run though.


>You mentioned that you wouldn't go back to NY so I take that
>as a sign you decided to transition into another line of work.
>Are you still a filmmaker?

I would never say I was ever a filmmaker, I worked locations on some films and TV shows and did some other odd jobs on other projects along the way. But no, I left film/tv back around 2008-9. I dipped back in for a few months to do some commercial work right before leaving the city in 2012.

-------------------------------

A lot of you players ain't okay.

We would have been better off with an okaycivics board instead of an okayactivist board

Freshman year at Columbia College Chicago.
My roommate was from Minnesota, and a film major.
I was studying photography, not knowing the connection between photo and film.
He showed me Fargo on his laserdisc player. And after we watched it,
we went back and he just explained everything.

https://digife.com

particularly his "Great Movies" list, which I hammered on through high school and college.