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"Star Wars: The Force Awakens (Abrams, 2015) SPOILERS/REVIEWS thread"


          

Quite possible this might get locked, BUT....

Here's a thread where you can put spoilers and your own reviews (that will contain spoilers) for The Force Awakens.

Let's not spoil any other threads - people will be bummed.

------------


Gone: My Discogs collection for The Roots:
http://www.discogs.com/user/tomhayes-roots/collection

  

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Topic Outline
Subject Author Message Date ID
Saw it, its an easy 5/7
Dec 17th 2015
1
5/7?
Dec 17th 2015
2
5 out of 7
Dec 17th 2015
4
lol
Dec 17th 2015
3
haha
Dec 17th 2015
5
Beware of Roger
Dec 22nd 2015
216
if Finn wasn't such a mess of a portrayal, I'd like this movie a LOT mor...
Dec 18th 2015
6
LMAO
Dec 18th 2015
7
He aint sith yet
Dec 18th 2015
34
      I know..but Worst Sith Ever...works for me
Dec 18th 2015
38
           I hope not
Dec 18th 2015
39
he's a little goofy, true to the storm troopers we grew up on..
Dec 18th 2015
10
dawg, in addition him to finn SHOUTING every line for the first hour...
Dec 18th 2015
27
nah, that's not what he does. In Attack the Block he's essentially
Dec 19th 2015
70
^^^^
Dec 18th 2015
31
I really liked Finn
Dec 18th 2015
35
No. Finn was fucking awesome.
Dec 18th 2015
45
Finn was awesome but I'm biased
Dec 18th 2015
53
Did you watch the same movie as the rest of us? Finn was that dude.
Dec 19th 2015
56
I liked that Finn was more pragmatic than "good"
Dec 19th 2015
89
He's a young nigga figuring it out. Realistic, actually.
Dec 19th 2015
112
Loved it.... okay I only have one question...
Dec 18th 2015
8
most of the EU are no longer canon
Dec 18th 2015
11
Im not sure they don't recognize her
Dec 18th 2015
14
the younger sister angle could def work....
Dec 18th 2015
17
I thought she was Luke's daughter
Dec 18th 2015
18
My Rey theory
Dec 18th 2015
19
RE: My Rey theory
Dec 18th 2015
25
this seems bizarre to me
Dec 19th 2015
90
yeah the books messed me up too
Dec 21st 2015
151
loved it.. EASILY the 4th best SW film... ***SPOILER***
Dec 18th 2015
9
R2 was
Dec 18th 2015
12
damn! thanks that makes sense... ****MORE SPOILERS****
Dec 18th 2015
15
Force Ghosts
Dec 18th 2015
16
I thought he was activated by Ray, who carries Luke's DNA
Dec 19th 2015
67
Giving it 3rd best status behind Jedi
Dec 18th 2015
36
      wait wait wait ... third best BEHIND jedi?
Dec 19th 2015
57
           Meant to say AHEAD; my bad.
Dec 19th 2015
63
I loved it but
Dec 18th 2015
13
Great characters. Insanely familiar-- no surprises. A pleasant diversion...
Dec 18th 2015
20
RE: Great characters. Insanely familiar-- no surprises. A pleasant diver...
Dec 19th 2015
93
yep.
Jan 04th 2016
336
Well, it wasn't Phantom Menace, so there's that
Dec 18th 2015
21
RE: Well, it wasn't Phantom Menace, so there's that
Dec 18th 2015
22
Though it was great
Dec 18th 2015
23
Thoroughly enjoyed it. Excellent set up for the franchise
Dec 18th 2015
24
A Newer Hope but still pretty dope
Dec 18th 2015
26
After a 2nd viewing I'm changing my family tree stance
Dec 18th 2015
50
It's very good
Dec 18th 2015
28
kylo ren as an unlikeable villian "crescendoed" to pretty good
Dec 18th 2015
29
my whole theater had zero reaction to this cause we all saw it
Dec 18th 2015
32
      RE: my whole theater had zero reaction to this cause we all saw it
Dec 18th 2015
33
           It was telegraphed when he walked out on the bridge
Dec 18th 2015
54
                when he handed over the trigger I was like "oh this is it"
Dec 20th 2015
126
I'm sure i would have LOVED this movie if i hadnt already seen IV
Dec 18th 2015
30
RE: I'm sure i would have LOVED this movie if i hadnt already seen IV
Dec 23rd 2015
244
If Finn is going to be this generation's Han...
Dec 18th 2015
37
RE: If Finn is going to be this generation's Han...
Dec 18th 2015
40
      I hope so; Oscar Isaac is wasted if not given more to do
Dec 18th 2015
41
      I didnt know that was her
Dec 18th 2015
49
           The voice was very recognizable...what I didn't kno was Lupita
Dec 19th 2015
59
      Seems he should've taken them to the Reisstance
Dec 18th 2015
44
      He was a plot device in this film; was supposed to die.
Dec 21st 2015
168
Liked it, didn't love it. Mainly cuz of the predictability already menti...
Dec 18th 2015
42
finn was the shit.
Dec 18th 2015
55
      Yep, I had the same Denzel comparison when watching...
Dec 19th 2015
74
           Finn is the only one who acts like an actual person
Dec 20th 2015
120
This shit coulda been called Phantom Menace
Dec 18th 2015
43
I loved it. I can't fully rank it yet because i want to see it again
Dec 18th 2015
46
I almost started crying when
Dec 18th 2015
47
Imma say 3rd best behind Empire and Revenge
Dec 18th 2015
48
I liked it a lot
Dec 18th 2015
51
It was also the first time Finn was making decisions for himself
Dec 19th 2015
110
I really liked it BUT
Dec 18th 2015
52
a lot of y'all are saying y'all really liked it but....
Dec 19th 2015
60
      Nah, I can dig it but still be worried
Dec 19th 2015
64
      Yeah at this point there shouldnt be a film 'setting up a franchise'
Dec 19th 2015
66
      Re: the action... it's not great, honestly. Prequels have better action.
Dec 19th 2015
73
           But good action scenes are more than just technical achievement
Dec 21st 2015
197
      Mos DEF, JJ's Star Trek is much better than JJ's Star Wars
Dec 20th 2015
114
           That's all I'm saying
Dec 20th 2015
117
           JJ's Star Trek was criticized for not being Star Trek enough
Dec 20th 2015
119
                ^THIS^
Dec 21st 2015
149
                ^^ Pretty much. Lose lose with both franchises
Dec 24th 2015
259
Very mediocre until I see 8 and 9.
Dec 19th 2015
58
I think the building of the new characters was excellent
Dec 19th 2015
80
You call bullshit on an opinion? Okay, player.
Dec 19th 2015
95
      Kylo isn't a sith yet
Dec 19th 2015
106
      That still doesn't hold. No way Finn should have been able to hang.
Dec 26th 2015
273
      Kylo vs Finn/Rey
Dec 20th 2015
116
           Dude was bleeding to death + not that nice to begin with
Dec 20th 2015
121
           I forgot about the shot from Chewy. In that case he's just weak as fuck
Dec 26th 2015
274
Don't make excuses. It was medicore
Dec 21st 2015
172
who was the old guy on tattoine, I mean jukka that Oscar Isaac got the
Dec 19th 2015
61
my theory is that Luke got a secret Jedi coven
Dec 19th 2015
65
fuck this movie.....
Dec 19th 2015
62
You explained why that's the only way he should die
Dec 19th 2015
111
      I just feel a character like Han Solo should go out like a boss....
Dec 20th 2015
141
           that would've been od cheesy.
Dec 21st 2015
144
I really enjoyed it...
Dec 19th 2015
68
What do you mean think?
Dec 22nd 2015
220
      They didn't
Dec 22nd 2015
235
           what about the convo between han/leia though?
Dec 22nd 2015
241
                i actually agree with you...
Dec 30th 2015
329
i wanted to love it but I didn't...
Dec 19th 2015
69
RE: i wanted to love it but I didn't...
Dec 19th 2015
71
when was this revealed in the films?
Dec 19th 2015
76
      Clone Wars tv show
Dec 19th 2015
85
Kylo isnt the finished article yet.
Dec 19th 2015
72
It's was also an homage
Dec 19th 2015
79
Another thing, I wish Adam Driver was never on "Girls"...
Dec 19th 2015
75
he didn't do enuff sans mask to make me forget his girls character eithe...
Dec 19th 2015
77
      Thats why Kylo wears the mask tho
Dec 19th 2015
78
           True and that's all well and good. But I want to think of a soft shoulde...
Dec 19th 2015
83
           I couldn't hear him as anything but Adam.
Dec 20th 2015
113
           I've never seen Driver in my life prior to Force Awakens
Dec 20th 2015
122
                http://www.huffingtonpost.com/kareem-abduljabbar/girls-review_b_2593756....
Dec 20th 2015
131
           ^^^THIS and that's why its perfect
Dec 19th 2015
86
It was fine. Tough to be great with so many balls to juggle
Dec 19th 2015
81
!!!!
Dec 19th 2015
84
I need a spreadsheet for this
Dec 19th 2015
88
Yeah, I was left thinking a lot about the politics
Dec 26th 2015
272
I thought it was thrilling. Second best after Empire.
Dec 19th 2015
82
I'm with you. I loved it.
Dec 19th 2015
98
That was why I wanted to see it opening night....
Dec 19th 2015
99
that's how i feel
Dec 21st 2015
201
Where's the 'I had it my sister had it you have it' Luke VO from trailer...
Dec 19th 2015
87
Yeah they left some shit out. My fav part of the trailer
Dec 19th 2015
91
The VO is from RotJ and Mark Hamil re-recorded it specifically for the
Dec 19th 2015
92
      Oh shit my bad. I feel dumb now. Thanks for the link!
Dec 19th 2015
104
Saw a 2nd time today
Dec 19th 2015
94
I'm glad I went to see this twice before coming into this post....
Dec 19th 2015
96
I'm sayin - like what exactly did everyone hope for?
Dec 19th 2015
97
I've spend the last 4 weeks.....
Dec 19th 2015
100
RE: I've spend the last 4 weeks.....
Dec 19th 2015
101
RE: I've spend the last 4 weeks.....
Dec 19th 2015
105
I think people are being pretty clear on what they thought.
Dec 19th 2015
103
      Yeah. Not to mention these replies don't address the critiques at all
Dec 21st 2015
212
           People have decided to love it, no matter how shitty it is.
Dec 21st 2015
214
I've seen over 100 movies this year. Enjoyed roughly 70-75 of them.
Dec 19th 2015
102
Man
Dec 19th 2015
107
I'm over it: Star Wars just isn't the place for great mythology
Dec 19th 2015
108
for me, the magic/myth is in more than just the single movie
Dec 22nd 2015
219
      I am FINE WITH THAT. And GOOD FOR YOU and your fam.
Dec 22nd 2015
229
           i can certainly appreciate your point
Dec 22nd 2015
234
saw the first in 77 as a kid..this was what longtime oldass fans wanted
Dec 19th 2015
109
what did the Supreme Leader say at the end?
Dec 20th 2015
115
RE: what did the Supreme Leader say at the end?
Dec 20th 2015
118
He said, "so we're getting to the real story in the next one?"
Dec 20th 2015
136
      lmao
Dec 20th 2015
140
      thank you
Dec 28th 2015
289
Force Awakens remixes EU - I like this article, good points
Dec 20th 2015
123
Saying Snoke is based on Thrawn is a stretch
Dec 21st 2015
145
      Abrams didn't read any of that shit.
Dec 21st 2015
150
           Man, your inner child is PISSED
Dec 22nd 2015
238
                Your outer child misses Jar Jar Binks
Dec 22nd 2015
239
seen it 2x.
Dec 20th 2015
124
RE: seen it 2x.
Dec 20th 2015
127
      Didn't dig Gleeson initially, stepped out during the speech the 2nd x
Dec 21st 2015
180
Fine movie, but reviews on BOTH SIDES are OFF.
Dec 20th 2015
125
I agree with everything (other than the prequel talk); in particular thi...
Dec 20th 2015
128
So it IS a problem that it's like ANH
Dec 20th 2015
130
Nah, that isn't it.
Dec 20th 2015
132
      Of course you can.
Dec 20th 2015
134
           Ok, cool. I'm not saying I LIKED the similarities to ANH
Dec 20th 2015
135
                RE: Ok, cool. I'm not saying I LIKED the similarities to ANH
Dec 21st 2015
152
                     Well, this is the point. It's all about $.
Dec 21st 2015
153
This post pairs best with my thoughts.
Dec 21st 2015
156
as long as Disney respects the existing mythology
Dec 21st 2015
199
      Nah, this is spiraling into a space magic Jerry Springer episode
Dec 21st 2015
207
JJ explains how/why R2 woke up
Dec 20th 2015
129
Jesus. That whole article proves my points
Dec 20th 2015
133
Show us on the Black Series action figure where your uncle touched you
Dec 20th 2015
137
Yowzers. I feel really sorry for some of you guys.
Dec 20th 2015
138
      LMAO lighten up dude.
Dec 20th 2015
142
           Hey, you're the one who mentioned child molestation
Dec 21st 2015
147
I agree, what a shit answer
Dec 21st 2015
146
"Luke turned him on because he was ready to help" >>>>>>
Dec 21st 2015
148
      RE: "Luke turned him on because he was ready to help" >>>>>>
Dec 21st 2015
167
           better answer below
Dec 24th 2015
261
Crazy part is Abrams sees the problems, repeats them
Dec 21st 2015
166
OE being brave with his "It's good/bad" stance
Dec 21st 2015
169
      Simple: enjoyable, fun movie. Shitty, goofy story.
Dec 21st 2015
171
           Star Wars was/is/always will be goofy. It's part of its charm
Dec 21st 2015
177
                Nah, 4.5 and (even) 6 were well constructed, well made movies.
Dec 21st 2015
187
                     USE THE AGENDA, LUKE
Dec 21st 2015
198
                          No more child molestation references, please
Dec 21st 2015
204
                               You wanted your childhood restored and got a movie instead
Dec 21st 2015
210
                                    Opposite. I wanted a movie and got nods to my childhood
Dec 21st 2015
211
                                         You wanted friends and have 50,000 msg board posts instead
Dec 21st 2015
213
                                              Ah, so you're conceding that the movie was shitty
Dec 21st 2015
215
                                              Naw. It's a good star wars movie. Problem is..
Dec 22nd 2015
223
                                                   Hey, if you want to pardon a shitty movie, fine.
Dec 22nd 2015
228
                                                        Maybe don't go into a movie expecting to see it 5 times
Dec 22nd 2015
232
                                                             I'll take seeing a good movie one time
Dec 22nd 2015
240
                                              ROFL
Dec 22nd 2015
237
"oh fuck, Luke skywalkers here" <--GOOD ANSWER
Jan 04th 2016
338
reading this annoyed me.
Jan 11th 2016
371
Boyega at the London premiere was straight comedy (vid)
Dec 20th 2015
139
lmao that was great. I'm happy for dude
Dec 21st 2015
143
This movie was a mess.
Dec 21st 2015
154
^^^^GODDAMN!!!!
Dec 21st 2015
155
      RE: ^^^^GODDAMN!!!!
Dec 21st 2015
157
           Yeah. It stood unusual to me also
Dec 21st 2015
159
           Even if Ren was mortally wounded
Dec 21st 2015
160
           We don't know Ren is a trained soldier
Dec 21st 2015
173
                Yeah and no. The movie doesn't explicitly spell it out
Dec 21st 2015
179
           which is all bullshit. stop it.
Dec 21st 2015
161
                RE: which is all bullshit. stop it.
Dec 21st 2015
164
                every single thing you listed
Dec 21st 2015
183
                How the fuck you hate Prometheus and like this shit?
Dec 21st 2015
170
                     wait what, I love prometheus, you got me fucked up lol
Dec 21st 2015
182
C+ needs improvement (spoilers)
Dec 21st 2015
158
It 'righted' the ship but at the cost of being a solid stand alone movie
Dec 21st 2015
162
we'll have to wait until next year to see if they can do a new story
Dec 21st 2015
163
      What did you do with my Rjcc? Didn't you hate Avatar?
Dec 21st 2015
174
           because Jake killed my nigga Tsu'tey AND took his chick
Dec 21st 2015
184
                Avatar was literally thousands of times better than this shit
Dec 21st 2015
186
                     jesus christ, no.
Dec 21st 2015
189
                          "trolling" is saying Force Awakens is as good as A New Hope
Dec 21st 2015
195
Loved the movie, didnt care for the plot
Dec 21st 2015
165
Not as great as everyone is saying but not bad
Dec 21st 2015
175
you mixing names up like crazy, haha
Dec 21st 2015
176
Which names am I mixing up?
Dec 21st 2015
178
Ren and Rey
Dec 21st 2015
202
      You're right I got those names mixed up and didn't notice it
Dec 21st 2015
205
what name did he mix up? maybe the fact that ep7 was a re-
Dec 21st 2015
181
      RE: what name did he mix up? maybe the fact that ep7 was a re-
Dec 21st 2015
190
           reread, he mixed it once and the context made it quite clear
Dec 21st 2015
191
                4 times actually
Dec 21st 2015
203
                     ok
Dec 21st 2015
209
yup, i realize now that this film had a VERY low bench mark
Dec 21st 2015
185
Very enjoyable. Mostly glad it sets up the new trilogy well.
Dec 21st 2015
188
i wish it had been the other way around, carrie fisher was horrible
Dec 21st 2015
193
      I was too, though storywise I'd say it makes more sense
Dec 22nd 2015
233
Did anybody else think Chewie was gonna die when Han got killed?
Dec 21st 2015
192
nah bruh, they kill chewie in the last Star Wars movie ever
Dec 21st 2015
194
Yeah i think only Chewie is around by ep 9
Dec 21st 2015
196
      going to be Chewie and R2 and relaxing
Dec 21st 2015
200
           Ideally but i think they will let BB8 stand alone...
Dec 21st 2015
206
Chewie's not done with Kylo Ren
Dec 21st 2015
208
I thought he was gone instead...
Dec 22nd 2015
224
would've been nice to have an R-rating
Dec 22nd 2015
226
      in the book you get some arm-ripping action
Jan 17th 2016
      in the book you get some arm-ripping action
Jan 17th 2016
385
too much recycled from RTJ
Dec 22nd 2015
217
Baby boomers: we didn't just save the world; we saved the galaxy
Dec 22nd 2015
218
I can get down with this reasoning
Dec 22nd 2015
221
Nah. Either way it's big, dumb, fun.
Dec 22nd 2015
222
      ^^^My man. Agreed on all. n/m
Dec 22nd 2015
230
new republic / first order / resistance politics explained:
Dec 22nd 2015
225
ZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ
Dec 22nd 2015
227
ay listen, O...
Dec 23rd 2015
245
      Got you. Apologies. n/m
Dec 23rd 2015
249
if only any of this had appeared in the film...but thanks
Dec 23rd 2015
248
i'm with this guy
Dec 22nd 2015
231
As epic as the first triology
Dec 22nd 2015
236
Umm, this was hot/fun garbage
Dec 23rd 2015
242
I respect the prequel trilogy more than this movie
Dec 23rd 2015
251
      this is perfect.
Dec 24th 2015
265
Our old heroes ended up dead beats
Dec 23rd 2015
243
one more time, why not
Dec 23rd 2015
246
what?
Dec 23rd 2015
247
      RE: what?
Dec 23rd 2015
252
           han solo did evolve. it didn't work.
Dec 23rd 2015
254
           Those were words that he spoke in front of a camera
Dec 23rd 2015
257
                nah, it's definitely supposed to be pathetic
Dec 24th 2015
267
                     Nah, Harrison Ford just didn't care about this movie
Dec 26th 2015
277
                          i bet m.night would've gotten a good performance out of him
Dec 29th 2015
311
                               Couldn't have done any worse than TFA
Dec 31st 2015
333
           Han admits that he devolved into his old bad habits after Ben split
Dec 23rd 2015
255
                Nah, Harrison Ford devolved into a bad actor
Dec 27th 2015
284
                     something something m.night
Dec 29th 2015
312
let me explain some stuff for you slowpokes
Dec 23rd 2015
250
glad you wrote this, because after seeing it again...
Dec 23rd 2015
253
exactly. all of this. thank you.
Dec 23rd 2015
256
      I'm curious why anyone should care that Luke is Rey's father
Dec 24th 2015
258
           I don't know, maybe I'm not that hard to please...
Dec 24th 2015
262
           i doubt it'll be a reveal, more like a plot point
Dec 24th 2015
268
none of this addresses that TFA was a ANH repeated
Dec 24th 2015
260
think that was pretty obviously deliberate
Dec 24th 2015
269
      I stopped reading after ur first paragraph. There were plenty of
Dec 27th 2015
287
      the filmmakers did tell a different story
Dec 29th 2015
309
      LMAO @ "bringing back the old fans"
Dec 28th 2015
292
           what would m.night do?
Dec 29th 2015
308
Glad you wrote this
Dec 24th 2015
264
RE: let me explain some stuff for you slowpokes
Dec 25th 2015
270
lol the force can be/do anything they need to facilitate the plot.
Dec 27th 2015
281
That's a copout though.
Dec 27th 2015
282
the force can have a strong influence on the weak-minded
Dec 29th 2015
310
lol, this guy. NO SHIT about Rey, first of all.
Dec 26th 2015
275
That is perhaps the corniest review I've ever read.
Dec 26th 2015
276
given that your ideal sci-fi adventure is directed by m.night
Dec 29th 2015
306
umm, sarcasm? I can't tell if you are joking
Dec 27th 2015
285
      and you might be the slowest of pokes
Dec 29th 2015
307
           nah, it just wasn't good
Dec 29th 2015
317
           Watching u try 2 squeeze meaning out of this shitty movie is LOL
Dec 29th 2015
328
Im okay with the movie not showing all this
Dec 24th 2015
263
I've seen it twice - each time the projection has been wrong
Dec 24th 2015
266
I ENJOYED THIS "A NEW HOPE" REMIX BY DJJJ ABRAMS
Dec 25th 2015
271
Featuring John Boyegalectronica
Dec 27th 2015
278
What about all the gaping PLOT HOLES in this Movie?
Dec 27th 2015
279
Seems you and the author are unclear on the concept of plot holes.
Dec 27th 2015
283
Oh here we go. SMH
Dec 27th 2015
288
      lol you post some half assed critique and have the nerve to say that?
Dec 28th 2015
290
           We all know what Plot holes are. Thank you and don't be mad.
Dec 28th 2015
295
                LOL! Yet again, you offer no insight or perspective
Dec 28th 2015
298
                     You are just mad that the Movie has issues. I still like it though.
Dec 28th 2015
302
                          Mad? I POINTED OUT ISSUES IN THE MOVIE.
Dec 28th 2015
304
whew. Is it that serious?
Dec 28th 2015
300
How is this a "plot hole?"
Dec 29th 2015
314
Half that list consists of things that aren't plot holes
Dec 29th 2015
316
      LOL.. Half of the list.. LOL What about the other half (20 points)
Dec 29th 2015
318
           I was being nice in saying "half", Basic Bill.
Dec 29th 2015
319
           How are things like this a "plot hole"?
Dec 29th 2015
327
                Why does he where the mask in the first place.
Dec 30th 2015
331
                     it's not that deep. He's a Vader dickrider obviously
Dec 31st 2015
332
                     Never mind. This is a waste of time.
Jan 01st 2016
334
What about the HOLES in the article?
Jan 08th 2016
356
alot of these are NOT PLOT HOLES
Jan 09th 2016
359
Devils Adcovate +
Jan 26th 2016
386
Star Wars and morality
Dec 27th 2015
280
I saw it a second time and liked it way more. However my cousins
Dec 27th 2015
286
Beat Jurrasic World's race to 1 billion by only one day? Meh
Dec 28th 2015
291
I was surprised by that too, but I expect this to be around longer.
Dec 28th 2015
293
      Yeah, it doesn't open in China until January 9.
Dec 28th 2015
294
           RE: Yeah, it doesn't open in China until January 9.
Dec 28th 2015
296
           RE: Yeah, it doesn't open in China until January 9.
Dec 28th 2015
297
           lol for the recond someone surprised me and took me opening
Dec 28th 2015
301
           Its cause China apparently DGAF about Star Wars
Dec 28th 2015
299
                they don't let foreign movies run during the holidays in China
Dec 29th 2015
313
                Just had the biggest opening weekend in Chinese history
Jan 11th 2016
366
On second viewing, I'm more interested in the events between 6 and 7
Dec 28th 2015
303
if TNR is no longer the empire/senate
Dec 28th 2015
305
      I'd watch a short film about the First Order's shady business dealings
Dec 29th 2015
315
      The Clone Wars had several episodes about financing.
Dec 29th 2015
320
      ah, I see
Dec 29th 2015
324
      That's actually a pretty dope plan
Dec 29th 2015
326
      RE: I'd watch a short film about the First Order's shady business dealin...
Dec 30th 2015
330
      It's kind of covered in the books, but nowhere in the movies
Dec 29th 2015
321
           are these books that are still canon or no?
Dec 29th 2015
322
                This was all the "new" Canon books and comics
Dec 29th 2015
323
                     ahh, gotcha. damn there's still a shit ton of stuff
Dec 29th 2015
325
was cool for what it is. but...deja vu like a motherfucker.
Jan 02nd 2016
335
my only serious complaint is the lack of visual spectacle.
Jan 04th 2016
337
I agree with this. It was pretty boring visually.
Jan 04th 2016
339
the prequels had visual spectacle
Jan 04th 2016
340
lots of fun and will see it again, but we got robbed of 2 things
Jan 04th 2016
341
I agree - to the point that both must have been purposeful.
Jan 04th 2016
342
still got beef over not getting a medal
Jan 05th 2016
343
Chewie helped carry Finn off the Falcon though right?
Jan 05th 2016
344
Nah I don't think so. There's a shot of him just walking
Jan 05th 2016
345
i saw that re: the novelization
Jan 05th 2016
346
They definitely effed it up. I think their focus was on
Jan 05th 2016
347
yup i was thinking this as well
Jan 06th 2016
348
the idea that rey is a member of the solo/skywalker line
Jan 08th 2016
351
      The only way it would make sense is if they didn't know...
Jan 08th 2016
352
      maybe it's just a hug
Jan 08th 2016
353
           Maybe. I'm definitely speculating. But they specifically sent her
Jan 08th 2016
354
      i would rather it be just stupid than nonsensical
Jan 08th 2016
355
are we supposed to take the novelization of the film as canon?
Jan 06th 2016
349
      Yes, the novelization is canon.
Jan 07th 2016
350
Had a thought
Jan 09th 2016
358
Story was weak and the last 40 minutes were literally ep. IV
Jan 09th 2016
357
and Finn didn't stand a chance
Jan 09th 2016
360
i just watched attack of the clones again recently. its not good.
Jan 09th 2016
361
      it's soooo trash
Jan 09th 2016
362
      word. i tried giving the prequels a fair chance recently.
Jan 11th 2016
368
           the Anakin and Padme love story is possibly the cinematic WOAT
Jan 11th 2016
370
                Han and Ben Solo was almost as bad
Jan 11th 2016
372
                Not close to me.
Jan 12th 2016
378
                     Right, and don't forget "I don't like sand, it gets everywhere"
Jan 12th 2016
379
                     Jesus
Jan 12th 2016
381
                     Han and Leia discussing divorce terms during a rebellion
Jan 12th 2016
380
                          Nothing in movie history has been worse than this:
Jan 13th 2016
382
                the entire arc. if it's not the worst, it's one of the worst.
Jan 12th 2016
375
RE: Episode VII plot similarities to Episode IV
Jan 09th 2016
363
it wasnt the thematic things that bothered me
Jan 10th 2016
364
RE: it wasnt the thematic things that bothered me
Jan 10th 2016
365
      im not sure i agree
Jan 11th 2016
369
           RE: im not sure i agree
Jan 12th 2016
374
                Exactly. Luke was looking up to the Binary sunset wanting to leave.
Jan 12th 2016
376
                     Good lord. Lame. n/m
Jan 12th 2016
377
Jesus, you guys just refuse to think for yourselves
Jan 11th 2016
367
      china China China china
Jan 11th 2016
373
VFX before and after
Jan 13th 2016
383
Why hasnt this leaked!!! lol
Jan 17th 2016
384
It has. Like opening weekend.
Jan 27th 2016
387
      Lol I meant a screener
Jan 27th 2016
388
      sick of this kodi cam shit lol...
Jan 27th 2016
389
RE: Bliss movie award winner
Jan 31st 2016
390
You thought it was like A New Hope??
Feb 01st 2016
393
Best Star Wars movie of 2015
Jan 31st 2016
391
Best Star Wars movie since the last one
Jan 31st 2016
392
I saw it again this week
Feb 08th 2016
394
I think a lot of these questions will be answered in the next movie
Apr 12th 2016
396
This movie definitely still holds up too.
Apr 11th 2016
395
blu-ray review
May 15th 2016
397
Just rewatched, and noticed something BIG.
Sep 19th 2016
398
I've thought so since first viewing.
Sep 19th 2016
399
I also did initially. But I've gone in circles because the
Sep 19th 2016
400
Oh wow never thought of that
Sep 23rd 2016
401
still my favorite numbered entry outside the original trilogy
Dec 26th 2020
402
Yeah it's a great movie
Dec 26th 2020
403

Innocent Criminal
Member since May 03rd 2003
14585 posts
Thu Dec-17-15 02:34 PM

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1. "Saw it, its an easy 5/7"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

Song dedication for my man: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zZqM5wtJ_2c

________________________________
There are dozens of us! Dozens!

  

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rdhull
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2. " 5/7? "
In response to Reply # 1


  

          

5 or 7 on 1-10 scale?

  

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Innocent Criminal
Member since May 03rd 2003
14585 posts
Thu Dec-17-15 04:43 PM

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4. "5 out of 7"
In response to Reply # 2


  

          

________________________________
There are dozens of us! Dozens!

  

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Ashy Achilles
Member since Sep 22nd 2005
4548 posts
Thu Dec-17-15 03:40 PM

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3. "lol"
In response to Reply # 1


          

PERFECT SCORE

  

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pretentious username
Member since Jun 18th 2010
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Thu Dec-17-15 05:08 PM

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5. "haha"
In response to Reply # 1


  

          

  

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Nappy Soul
Member since Jan 04th 2007
1181 posts
Tue Dec-22-15 12:00 AM

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216. "Beware of Roger"
In response to Reply # 1


  

          

LOL

time is money, money is time
so i keep 7 o'clock in the bank and gain interest in the hour of God
I'm saving to buy my freedom, God, grant me wings, I'm too fly not to fly _ Saul Williams

  

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kayru99
Member since Jan 26th 2004
16105 posts
Fri Dec-18-15 07:46 AM

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6. "if Finn wasn't such a mess of a portrayal, I'd like this movie a LOT mor..."
In response to Reply # 0


          

dude is literally the impetus for most of the MAJOR plot points in the movie
and a trained stormtrooper
clearly down to fight if need be
So why the stumblin bumblin comic relief schtick?

Meh.

Trust Fund Vader was a respectable villain
Snope is a goofy name
I liked the film overall, tho

  

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Castro
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7. "LMAO"
In response to Reply # 6


  

          

Trust Fund Vader...worst Sith...ever.


HOW TO BE A JEDI...in three easy lessons. Master the force via our special program and control mind and matter in MINUTES!


------------------
One Hundred.

  

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The3rdOne
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34. "He aint sith yet"
In response to Reply # 7


  

          

  

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Castro
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38. "I know..but Worst Sith Ever...works for me"
In response to Reply # 34


  

          

I hope Snoke is just as tall in person

------------------
One Hundred.

  

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B9
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39. "I hope not"
In response to Reply # 38


          

I hope Snope isn't a CGI Harry Potter looking thing any more.

  

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My_SP1200_Broken_Again
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10. "he's a little goofy, true to the storm troopers we grew up on.."
In response to Reply # 6


  

          

...being that he's not a clone, i guess he doesn't have to be portrayed like that ...i still think he ends up a jedi by the 3rd installment


< Live Mixshow - Thurs 11PM/EST >
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----Mixtape Archives-----
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Flash80
Member since Jan 03rd 2007
6953 posts
Fri Dec-18-15 04:07 PM

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27. "dawg, in addition him to finn SHOUTING every line for the first hour..."
In response to Reply # 6


          

i started to groan at his forced comic relief.

like, between solo and finn trading barbs, i thought i was watching an advertised comedy.

also, did abrams direct boyega to over-act, or is that just what he does?

  

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kayru99
Member since Jan 26th 2004
16105 posts
Sat Dec-19-15 11:28 AM

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70. "nah, that's not what he does. In Attack the Block he's essentially "
In response to Reply # 27


          

Young Action Hero Denzel.

He ain't gotta be *that*, but he was waaaaay to Cuba Gooding Jr in this joint

  

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blkprinceMD05
Member since Nov 29th 2004
41323 posts
Fri Dec-18-15 04:27 PM

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31. "^^^^"
In response to Reply # 6
Fri Dec-18-15 04:28 PM by blkprinceMD05

  

          

jar jar binks as a storm troopper

prototype

stand ur ground, believe in urself,
believe in love, prepare urself for love, remove the negativity from ur life, and accept the love u kno u deserve

  

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go mack
Member since May 02nd 2008
4020 posts
Fri Dec-18-15 05:43 PM

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35. "I really liked Finn"
In response to Reply # 6


  

          

and thought the actor did great. shrug

  

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Heinz
Member since Dec 26th 2003
20759 posts
Fri Dec-18-15 09:45 PM

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45. "No. Finn was fucking awesome."
In response to Reply # 6


  

          

That kid gonna be a star.

  

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jigga
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Fri Dec-18-15 11:19 PM

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53. "Finn was awesome but I'm biased"
In response to Reply # 6


  

          

Met Boyega back in his Attack of the Block days & dude was hella cool

  

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BrooklynWHAT
Member since Jun 15th 2007
85066 posts
Sat Dec-19-15 12:02 AM

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56. "Did you watch the same movie as the rest of us? Finn was that dude."
In response to Reply # 6


  

          

<--- Big Baller World Order

  

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Rjcc
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89. "I liked that Finn was more pragmatic than "good""
In response to Reply # 6


          

it gives him space to be Han Solo-ish without being Solo 2.0

like, he saved Poe because poe could get him out.

everything with Rey is...obvious reasons, at each level.

I like him.

www.engadgethd.com - the other stuff i'm looking at

  

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Orbit_Established
Member since Oct 27th 2002
52934 posts
Sat Dec-19-15 11:56 PM

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112. "He's a young nigga figuring it out. Realistic, actually. "
In response to Reply # 6


  

          


He not all sleek and purposeful

Dude is all confused and shit

He acts the part

Rey is basically the only person in the world who was
ever nice to him, hence the affinity

That's how young niggas act

----------------------------



O_E: "Acts like an asshole and posts with imperial disdain"




"I ORBITs the solar system, listenin..."

(C)Keith Murray, "

  

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KnowOne
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8. "Loved it.... okay I only have one question..."
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

First of all the movie was awesome. Only drawback I can find is this is pretty much Ep 4 redone for the modern generation. But it was so well done Im not even mad. Now my question....

I know from the books that they had twins, a boy & a girl. So going in I assumed Kylo was the son and the chick was his twin sister. But with Han & especially Leia not recognizing her or even acknowledging there was another kid.... is this a new take on the story? Could she be Luke's daughter? Or are they just saving the whole "I am your brother" reveal for Episode 8?

_________________________________________
"Too weird to live.... too rare to die..."

IG: KnowOne215 | PS+ ID: KnowOne215

  

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Jay Doz
Member since Dec 13th 2005
8663 posts
Fri Dec-18-15 09:49 AM

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11. "most of the EU are no longer canon"
In response to Reply # 8


  

          

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2015-12-15/why-disney-blew-up-more-than-30-years-of-star-wars-canon

-------
"A man who is good enough to shed his blood for his country is good enough to be given a square deal afterwards. More than that no man is entitled, and less than that no man shall have." - TR

  

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go mack
Member since May 02nd 2008
4020 posts
Fri Dec-18-15 10:22 AM

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14. "Im not sure they don't recognize her"
In response to Reply # 8


  

          

I just think they were holding back and not telling her. When Leia sees her and hugs her just got that feeling. And Im thinking maybe a younger sister rather than twin this time but don't know.. It just seems more likely they will go into her finding out he's her brother eventually and having to try to turn him back.

  

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KnowOne
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17. "the younger sister angle could def work...."
In response to Reply # 14


  

          

I could see with him going dark, Luke disappearing, and Han running off, Leia thinking its best to send her off like Obi did with Luke.

_________________________________________
"Too weird to live.... too rare to die..."

IG: KnowOne215 | PS+ ID: KnowOne215

  

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Castro
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Fri Dec-18-15 11:46 AM

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18. "I thought she was Luke's daughter"
In response to Reply # 8


  

          

------------------
One Hundred.

  

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CaptNish
Member since Mar 09th 2004
14495 posts
Fri Dec-18-15 11:49 AM

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19. "My Rey theory"
In response to Reply # 8


  

          

She's Kylo Ben's younger sis. She also was being trained. Bitch Boy Ben cuts down the Jedi (probably on Snoke's orders), but can't bring himself to chop his sister. So, knowing he can't say he left her alive, he drops her on Jakku to work knowing she won't be able to get off world. Leia and Han think she was slaughtered as well which is why they don't recognize her as their daughter. But they both seemed to sense "something" with her it seemed to me.

This theory came to me from Kylo's reaction when he was told the traitor Stormtrooper and the droid were assisted by "...a girl" and her lightsaber vision.

_
Yo! That’s My Jawn: The Podcast - Available Now!
http://linktr.ee/yothatsmyjawn

  

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mrhood75
Member since Dec 06th 2004
44717 posts
Fri Dec-18-15 01:42 PM

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25. "RE: My Rey theory"
In response to Reply # 19


  

          

I think she has to be Luke's kid. Him and the mother get separated for whatever reason, the mother gets taken, and she gets sold into slavery on Jakku.

>She's Kylo Ben's younger sis. She also was being trained.
>Bitch Boy Ben cuts down the Jedi (probably on Snoke's orders),
>but can't bring himself to chop his sister. So, knowing he
>can't say he left her alive, he drops her on Jakku to work
>knowing she won't be able to get off world. Leia and Han think
>she was slaughtered as well which is why they don't recognize
>her as their daughter. But they both seemed to sense
>"something" with her it seemed to me.

Eh, problem with that is that they seem to be roughly the same, if not similar ages. So she'd remember more about her brother or her family if this was so. It would make Kylo's "You see Han Solo as the father you never had..." speech a little superfluous.

-----------------

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Checkin' Our Style, Return To Zero:

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Rjcc
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90. "this seems bizarre to me"
In response to Reply # 19


          

even if they thought their daughter was dead, it seems ridiculous to me that they would meet her and not recognize her or even specifically mark it as something later on.

www.engadgethd.com - the other stuff i'm looking at

  

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jrocc
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151. "yeah the books messed me up too"
In response to Reply # 8


          

i just knew they were twins. then i was kindas shocked when they didn't acknowledge it. they threw out all that stuff from the novels which is kind of a shame. i would have loved to have seen Admiral Thrawn in the movies.

  

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My_SP1200_Broken_Again
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9. "loved it.. EASILY the 4th best SW film... ***SPOILER***"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

...only thing that bothered me was when R2 came back online, as if he's force sensitive or something ...he's been sad since Luke bounced but knows now it's time to go get him?




< Live Mixshow - Thurs 11PM/EST >
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Innocent Criminal
Member since May 03rd 2003
14585 posts
Fri Dec-18-15 10:03 AM

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12. "R2 was "
In response to Reply # 9


  

          

Probably activated by Luke who felt it was time.

________________________________
There are dozens of us! Dozens!

  

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My_SP1200_Broken_Again
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15. "damn! thanks that makes sense... ****MORE SPOILERS****"
In response to Reply # 12


  

          

...I'm also thinking how Kylo is trying to talk to his grandpa in that scene ..even if he could speak to him, Anikin's spirt is going to tell him to stop being a bad ass and go to the light, right???


..and is Luke chilling on that planet chopping it up all day with Obi Won, Yoda & Qui-Gon???

< Live Mixshow - Thurs 11PM/EST >
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Innocent Criminal
Member since May 03rd 2003
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Fri Dec-18-15 10:42 AM

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16. "Force Ghosts"
In response to Reply # 15


  

          

Yeah, Kylo is most likely just giving himself a pep talk. If Anakin's force ghost was able to communicate with him it surely wouldn't be encouraging him to the dark side.

If I remember correctly (I probably don't) force ghosts couldn't stick around indefinitely, Obi wan was only able to hold on for about 10 years, someone more powerful like Yoda and Anakin could probably stick around longer. In the now non canon EU, Luke was able to stick around for several decades but even he eventually couldn't maintain it.

Point of all that, I don't think Luke is still playing Jenga with Yoda and Obi-Wan. Of course none of that stuff is canon anymore so who knows how they'll go with it.

________________________________
There are dozens of us! Dozens!

  

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StephBMore
Member since Sep 11th 2014
1373 posts
Sat Dec-19-15 10:32 AM

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67. "I thought he was activated by Ray, who carries Luke's DNA"
In response to Reply # 12


  

          

because she is his daughter.

  

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B9
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Fri Dec-18-15 06:37 PM

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36. "Giving it 3rd best status behind Jedi"
In response to Reply # 9


          

  

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Drizzit
Member since Sep 19th 2002
6467 posts
Sat Dec-19-15 12:07 AM

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57. "wait wait wait ... third best BEHIND jedi? "
In response to Reply # 36


  

          

you're rating jedi ahead of a new hope or empire?

for me, it's empire, a new hope, jedi/FA ... *LONG PAUSE* ... prequels.

  

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B9
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63. "Meant to say AHEAD; my bad. "
In response to Reply # 57


          

Empire
New Hope
This one
Jedi



All Shit.

  

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go mack
Member since May 02nd 2008
4020 posts
Fri Dec-18-15 10:18 AM

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13. "I loved it but"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

think they could have skipped the whole new Death Star angle again. I was fine with a lot of the similarities, events that happen very close to events that happen in the OGs, old lines being said, etc but a 3rd movie now on a device that blows up planets, de-activate the shields and find a weak spot... meh Wish would just stuck with the search and other plot points and left that out.

Still I had a great time and a grin on my face the entire time.

  

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Frank Longo
Member since Nov 18th 2003
86672 posts
Fri Dec-18-15 12:05 PM

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20. "Great characters. Insanely familiar-- no surprises. A pleasant diversion..."
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

It's a better franchise set-up than it is a movie. The performances and characters are so strong that they carry the pretty standard (some may say too familiar, and I may not disagree) story.

Better than the prequels, but that's not saying much-- the prequels had no interesting characters whatsoever. Not convinced this movie reaches some of the action heights from the prequels though-- but I'd rather have characters I care about. Rey, Finn, and Kylo all absolutely rule.

People with super-deep nostalgia for the original series will love it, I'm sure. I'm not terribly passionate about the franchise, so I found it to be a pleasant, earnest diversion.

The most exciting thing to me are the racial and gender dynamics really-- seeing black and Hispanic heroes, seeing women who actively do the rescuing. Hopefully this encourages more big franchises to do the same.

My movies: http://russellhainline.com
My movie reviews: https://letterboxd.com/RussellHFilm/
My beer TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@thebeertravelguide

  

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MEAT
Member since Feb 08th 2008
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Sat Dec-19-15 05:25 PM

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93. "RE: Great characters. Insanely familiar-- no surprises. A pleasant diver..."
In response to Reply # 20


  

          

>It's a better franchise set-up than it is a movie.

This.

------
“There is no fate that cannot be surmounted by scorn.” -Albert Camus

  

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will_5198
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Mon Jan-04-16 12:31 AM

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336. "yep. "
In response to Reply # 20


          

characters propelled it and the casting was nearly perfect*. necessary step forward to see female and black leads after the whitewashed (as with most things beloved by nerds) heydays.

first 45 minutes are *fantastic*, the middle part is solid, and the end drags because it's telegraphed (the Death...Planet! with the nearly same weakness it had 40 years ago!). overall enjoyable though.

*except for Adam Driver. Kylo Ren is an interesting character, but Driver is completely ill-suited for the role (sans mask).

--------

  

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spenzalii
Member since Jan 02nd 2004
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Fri Dec-18-15 12:06 PM

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21. "Well, it wasn't Phantom Menace, so there's that"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

It did look great (a return to more practical effects was welcome after the bluescreen orgy that the prequels were) but somehow I still came away underwhelmed. I don't think it was bad by any means. But there was probably too much Solo and they wheeled out the planet destroying weapon again (though this time it's a death planet instead of death star. It still goes down the same. You'd think somebody would have figured out how to defend that by now).

Trust Fund Vader. I'm stealing that one. Why the hell did he have to keep taking off the mask? And what's with the temper tantrums?

Definitely felt like a New Hope remix. Something for the new fans, maybe too much for the old fans, but not quite a perfect mashup for both. It does set up things for the next one, so I'll see where it goes

<-- Dave Thomas knows what's up...
__________________________

Jay: Look here homie, any nigga can get a hit record. This here is about respect.
Game: Like Gladys Knight.
Jay: Aretha Franklin.
Game: Word, I like her too.
Jay: Nigga...

  

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Castro
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Fri Dec-18-15 12:53 PM

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22. "RE: Well, it wasn't Phantom Menace, so there's that"
In response to Reply # 21


  

          

The wide shots were my favorite part hands down....that was the appeal of seeing it in a theater

------------------
One Hundred.

  

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josephmurf2384
Member since Nov 21st 2005
5289 posts
Fri Dec-18-15 01:21 PM

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23. "Though it was great"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

the most impressive 3D i have seen. saw it at Air and Space IMAX and it looked absolutely gorgeous. Characters worked well enough. I would have enjoyed Kylo Ren being someone not Han's and Leia's son but overall i thought it was very good.

  

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mrhood75
Member since Dec 06th 2004
44717 posts
Fri Dec-18-15 01:35 PM

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24. "Thoroughly enjoyed it. Excellent set up for the franchise"
In response to Reply # 0
Fri Dec-18-15 01:37 PM by mrhood75

  

          

Pretty much everything I love flows from my love of the original trilogy, and this didn't disappoint.

Great action and great continuation of the world creation. I did like that they just through the audience into the new state of affairs, with only the minimal explanation of stuff in the opening crawl. Finn, Rey, and Kylo were all great characters. Good intro to Poe, Phasma, and General Hux (Gleason did a solid job at channelin Tarkin). Happy as Hell to see Han and Chewie get their shine. Best action sequence was the first Falcon chase. Followed by the lightsaber fight in the forest.

Also great was how they mixed the practical effects with the new digital technology. Looked pretty damn seamless in most cases.

Okay, now a for a few things, I had... minor issues with. They've been covered by other above, but I'll say them again anyway. First, they really didn't give Oscar Isaac that much to do, and as a result, not that much reason to care about him. And as a result, I really didn't feel much about his mission to blow this version of the Death Star. There's an interesting character there, but I wanted more. The same went for Christie and Gleason on the First Order side. I imagine they're going to flesh them out in the sequels.

Second issue was that it really was just about the exact same film as A New Hope. Just about all the same story beats and everything. Hey, I get it, the first one worked for a reason, so there's something to be said for following that template to introduce a new generation to this stuff. But it's part of the reason why I didn't feel much about this new version of the Death Star, although I will admit a Death Planet that create energy by destroying stars in pretty cool. But then the X-Wings fighting to blow the thing up was fairly lackluster. Like, there was very little of the tension that was in the same sequence in A New Hope.

But I did enjoy it and will be seeing it again. A few times. I've heard there's a theater in San Jose where they're showing it in 70mm (the only place west of Iowa where they're doing it), so I'm going to find a way to check it out. If nothing else, I went to catch it in my favorite movie house in Oakland, rather than a multiplex (where I saw it last night).

One more note that's neither negative or positive: Watching this made me feel really old. Or, more specifically, seeing Harrison Ford, Carrie Fisher, and Mark Hamil in this film made me feel really old. These are literally the first heroes of my youth, and seeing them hobble around the screen, after years of hard living, was... something else.

-----------------

www.albumism.com

Checkin' Our Style, Return To Zero:

https://www.mixcloud.com/returntozero/

  

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jigga
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Fri Dec-18-15 02:06 PM

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26. "A Newer Hope but still pretty dope"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

The family tree was confusing me too for bit but yall did a good job of breakin it down here...kudos

  

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jigga
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50. "After a 2nd viewing I'm changing my family tree stance"
In response to Reply # 26


  

          

I think Rey is Luke's daughter now too

  

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mrshow
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Fri Dec-18-15 04:15 PM

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28. "It's very good "
In response to Reply # 0


          

Best Harrison Ford performance in a looooong time. I had a feeling he'd eat it but it still hurt my inner child when he ate it.

The entire cast is great. There's some lazy storytelling in how they set up the finale but I never lost interest or looked at my watch.

  

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Flash80
Member since Jan 03rd 2007
6953 posts
Fri Dec-18-15 04:22 PM

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29. "kylo ren as an unlikeable villian "crescendoed" to pretty good"
In response to Reply # 0


          

he seemed pretty garden variety in the first act and most of the second.

oh yay, a black mask, black hood and altered voice. how evil.

but his mask-less interrogation scene with rey really exposed him for to a petulant, insecure little sith. he couldn't break her and even cried. cried!

then killing his father in such a fucked up way (the whole theater cringed as solo's lifeless corpse fell into the abyss) really put him over the top.

so it's basically ren vs. luke in the episode VIII duel, right?

(also, rey lightweight entertained the dark side for a hot second there. something to keep on eye on.)

  

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blkprinceMD05
Member since Nov 29th 2004
41323 posts
Fri Dec-18-15 04:29 PM

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32. "my whole theater had zero reaction to this cause we all saw it"
In response to Reply # 29


  

          

coming

>
>then killing his father in such a fucked up way (the whole
>theater cringed as solo's lifeless corpse fell into the abyss)
>really put him over the top.
>

prototype

stand ur ground, believe in urself,
believe in love, prepare urself for love, remove the negativity from ur life, and accept the love u kno u deserve

  

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Flash80
Member since Jan 03rd 2007
6953 posts
Fri Dec-18-15 04:42 PM

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33. "RE: my whole theater had zero reaction to this cause we all saw it"
In response to Reply # 32


          

again, it's how he went out. (kinda felt like a motif of cloud city and luke's fall btw)

solo inherently dying was telegraphed when ren played proverbial possum then wouldn't let go of the lightsaber.

  

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jigga
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Fri Dec-18-15 11:25 PM

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54. "It was telegraphed when he walked out on the bridge"
In response to Reply # 33


  

          

There were enough other unpredictable moments so I didn't mind too much

>again, it's how he went out. (kinda felt like a motif of
>cloud city and luke's fall btw)
>
>solo inherently dying was telegraphed when ren played
>proverbial possum then wouldn't let go of the lightsaber.
>
>

  

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Rjcc
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Sun Dec-20-15 03:21 PM

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126. "when he handed over the trigger I was like "oh this is it""
In response to Reply # 54


          


www.engadgethd.com - the other stuff i'm looking at

  

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blkprinceMD05
Member since Nov 29th 2004
41323 posts
Fri Dec-18-15 04:27 PM

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30. "I'm sure i would have LOVED this movie if i hadnt already seen IV"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

visually it was great and i loved the family dynamic running thru out (i'm thinking that rey will indeed end up being revealed as Luke's daughter and Kylo's first cousin and not Kylo's sister)

but the rehash of basically the same exact plot of new hope was just too on the nose for me. It all comes down to my expectations, i was looking for this to be a new chapter to an epic not a redo/reboot of a chapter that already occured

i mean the plot and details were exactly the same just different characters in the slots

orphan with hidden abilities on dusty sand planet discovers droid with life saving info stored on it and decides to help get that info into the right hands

then they encounter an old timer who knows the back story that can help them with their quest (obi won in 4 and han in 7).

then its the resistance (which looks exactly like the rebel alliance, which correct me if im wrong won the war and re-established the republic but are now inexplicably a separate entity from the republic....:-/) verses the remnants of the empire (now the first order i didnt mind because that make sense that that side wouldnt be comletely wiped out)

then the empire/first order has this planet busting weapon that just has one weak spot that needs xwing pilots to destroy

a lot of sneaking around on an empire/first order vessel evading storm troopers

and a final death of the older timer as his loved ones look on (again obi in 4 and han in 7, and like everyone didnt see han's death the second he stepped on that bridge)

I mean they even had ANOTHER FUCKING TRENCH....i was waiting for one of the pilots to say "stay on target, stay on target"

the one unique character, the reformed storm trooper was too goofy scary for my liking, i wouldnt him to be a bad ass who had done terrible things and just reached his breaking point instead of someone who just wanted to run away

i wont say this movie was horrible but it was a big let down, i wanted to be pulled into a new plot and i wasnt

my fav part was the fight between kylo and rey and the family tree elements

otherwise meh

prototype

stand ur ground, believe in urself,
believe in love, prepare urself for love, remove the negativity from ur life, and accept the love u kno u deserve

  

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spidey
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Wed Dec-23-15 12:29 PM

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244. "RE: I'm sure i would have LOVED this movie if i hadnt already seen IV"
In response to Reply # 30


  

          

My thoughts almost exactly...wanted so much more...

Integrity is the Cornerstone of Artistry...

  

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B9
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Fri Dec-18-15 06:48 PM

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37. "If Finn is going to be this generation's Han..."
In response to Reply # 0


          

JJ needs to fix some stuff with the "oh hell no" crap with that guy; you can be comic relief and romantic bad-ass without having to be nearly slap-stick, bumbling idiot (SEE HERE THE CHARACTER THAT HE'S REPLACING, MORE OR LESS). And he turned heel to run away so quickly for what appeared to be little to no reason. He knew what he was getting into up until when? I can't recall what turned him from trying to get BB8 back to running scared dude.

Odd complaint, maybe, but I wanted more info about Poe. He's the best pilot, he somehow got home, he and Finn are best buddies now (apparently), he's the master of BB8 and he was the ultimate hero/death-blow deliverer at the end...is he just Wedge 2.0 or is he actually a character?

The alien things that Han was smuggling seemed awfully too MIB-ish, and the CGI of Slope or whatever was difficult to get behind too.


All that said, highly enjoyable and the plot and 90% of the writing felt really at home with the originals while being relevant to today.

Side note: some dude that hadn't seen it yet was trying to tell me the next one is going to be all about Han. Took everything in my power not to ruin his day.

  

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mrhood75
Member since Dec 06th 2004
44717 posts
Fri Dec-18-15 07:01 PM

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40. "RE: If Finn is going to be this generation's Han..."
In response to Reply # 37


  

          

>JJ needs to fix some stuff with the "oh hell no" crap with
>that guy

Quick note: it's not going to be J.J. anymore after this film. He was brought on for one-shot deal. Rian Johnson (Looper, Brick) is writing the next two movies (and directing episode VIII)

>Odd complaint, maybe, but I wanted more info about Poe. He's
>the best pilot, he somehow got home, he and Finn are best
>buddies now (apparently), he's the master of BB8 and he was
>the ultimate hero/death-blow deliverer at the end...is he just
>Wedge 2.0 or is he actually a character?

I definitely agree here. He was talked-up as one of the three stars of the new trilogy, but had very little to work with. Seems like they want him to be a combination of Han and Luke, which would make him the second Han and Luke combo in the film. Hell, actually all three of them. Regardless, I imagine he gets developed more in the next movie.

-----------------

www.albumism.com

Checkin' Our Style, Return To Zero:

https://www.mixcloud.com/returntozero/

  

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B9
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Fri Dec-18-15 07:05 PM

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41. "I hope so; Oscar Isaac is wasted if not given more to do"
In response to Reply # 40


          

And I was really happy they didn't take Brienne of Tarth's mask off for some "see, SEE?" pop-culture nod thing. I just knew without knowing that was her.

  

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BrooklynWHAT
Member since Jun 15th 2007
85066 posts
Fri Dec-18-15 10:33 PM

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49. "I didnt know that was her"
In response to Reply # 41


  

          

<--- Big Baller World Order

  

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blkprinceMD05
Member since Nov 29th 2004
41323 posts
Sat Dec-19-15 12:38 AM

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59. "The voice was very recognizable...what I didn't kno was Lupita"
In response to Reply # 49


  

          

Was that yoda like female in the bar, until after the film was over

prototype

stand ur ground, believe in urself,
believe in love, prepare urself for love, remove the negativity from ur life, and accept the love u kno u deserve

  

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mrshow
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Fri Dec-18-15 08:20 PM

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44. "Seems he should've taken them to the Reisstance"
In response to Reply # 40


          

Maybe they just wanted to bring Han in earlier.

  

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SoulHonky
Member since Jan 21st 2003
25919 posts
Mon Dec-21-15 01:09 PM

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168. "He was a plot device in this film; was supposed to die."
In response to Reply # 40
Mon Dec-21-15 01:12 PM by SoulHonky

          

Instead of having the droids play the message (which would just look like a map and not seem that big) we need someone to explain what it is and give Finn a reason to team with Rey. And then, because we don't have a fighter pilot, we need to bring him back so we can have someone we care about bombing the Death Star Planet.

In fact, he was supposed to die in that opening scene.

http://www.gq.com/story/star-wars-the-force-awakens-character-death

----
NBA MOCK DRAFT #1 - https://thecourierclass.com/whole-shebang/2017/5/18/2017-nba-mock-draft-1-just-lotto-and-lotta-trades

  

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TheRealBillyOcean
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Fri Dec-18-15 07:08 PM

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42. "Liked it, didn't love it. Mainly cuz of the predictability already menti..."
In response to Reply # 0


          

I loved the familiarity of the characters and scenes.

Boyega was great in it. I think that dude is gonna be a star.

<---https://www.amazon.com/dp/B01DL9AVTQ

  

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dula dibiasi
Member since Apr 05th 2004
21925 posts
Fri Dec-18-15 11:48 PM

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55. "finn was the shit."
In response to Reply # 42


  

          

boyega's performance was dope (reminded me of young denzel in certain scenes) and he had some of the best dialogue in the picture.

smh @ ppl being mad that he was funny.

___

it is a capital mistake to theorize before one has data. insensibly one begins to twist facts to suit theories, instead of theories to suit facts. - sherlock holmes

  

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TheRealBillyOcean
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Sat Dec-19-15 01:13 PM

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74. "Yep, I had the same Denzel comparison when watching..."
In response to Reply # 55


          

The funny parts were good. I liked that he wasn't a one dimensional hero. He did heroic shit, but was also on some I'm getting the fuck outta here.

Plus trying to holler at the chick.

Man he was my favorite character in the whole flick.

<---https://www.amazon.com/dp/B01DL9AVTQ

  

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Orbit_Established
Member since Oct 27th 2002
52934 posts
Sun Dec-20-15 09:23 AM

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120. "Finn is the only one who acts like an actual person"
In response to Reply # 74


  

          


Other than Han

Everyone is full cornball Sci-Fi shit (which is fine)

----------------------------



O_E: "Acts like an asshole and posts with imperial disdain"




"I ORBITs the solar system, listenin..."

(C)Keith Murray, "

  

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KingMonte
Member since Feb 13th 2006
4675 posts
Fri Dec-18-15 07:23 PM

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43. "This shit coulda been called Phantom Menace"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

Because Kylo Ren's gonna turn good.
The bad guys in this one are the underlings. We haven't even seen the big bad yet...so it's like the big bad is a phantom menace...

I have a 400 year old chip on my shoulder.

  

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Heinz
Member since Dec 26th 2003
20759 posts
Fri Dec-18-15 10:01 PM

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46. "I loved it. I can't fully rank it yet because i want to see it again"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

Non 3D tho. I hate 3D its so useless, hurts the eyes and its just never good

I love the originals but this was done way better overall, obviously because of how technology is today it was easier for them to pull off. I think too many people will hold on to their nostalgic feelings and rank it under 4-5-6 but its better IMO. I get history trumps reality but the reality is...its just done better. Theres very few problems with this one, even less than the original. I dont' mind the similarities to 4 because this is an introduction and passing the torch moment for the franchise to get rid of most of the original cast and have it focused around these new ones so its great that they lead with this storyline.

  

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Heinz
Member since Dec 26th 2003
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Fri Dec-18-15 10:05 PM

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47. "I almost started crying when "
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

Rey used the force to get the saber. gat damn.

  

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BrooklynWHAT
Member since Jun 15th 2007
85066 posts
Fri Dec-18-15 10:27 PM

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48. "Imma say 3rd best behind Empire and Revenge"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

A worthy entry

<--- Big Baller World Order

  

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handle
Charter member
18948 posts
Fri Dec-18-15 11:11 PM

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51. "I liked it a lot"
In response to Reply # 0


          

First - Arclight fucked up the lens so the aspect ration wasn't quite right - but I let it go. (I did email them after, maybe they comp some passes so I can see it projected correctly.)

The from the ground view of Poe Dameron's rampage on the First Order's aircraft and ground troops was greta to see. We'd never gotten that type of view before.

I like Rey and Finn a lot.

People saying "Why is Finn such a mess and yelling and nervous?" I think it's because he panicked and had to get away - he's REACTING to his environment and not using his head much.

When the Tie Fighter was swallowed by the sands - I liked that.

Lie's theme playing as Leia hugs Rey - that was great too.

Rey's accurate vision of the future shows she might be more powerful than Luke was.

I only wish Han wouldn't have gone out like that. I know Harrison Ford must have demanded it - but the second he said his son's name I knew he was dead.

I'll definitely end up seeing at least 1 more time in the theatre.

------------


Gone: My Discogs collection for The Roots:
http://www.discogs.com/user/tomhayes-roots/collection

  

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SoulHonky
Member since Jan 21st 2003
25919 posts
Sat Dec-19-15 11:34 PM

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110. "It was also the first time Finn was making decisions for himself"
In response to Reply # 51
Sat Dec-19-15 11:34 PM by SoulHonky

          

Dude was following orders his entire life. Not surprising that he'd be nervous and out of his depth when entering the real world for the first time. I was hoping that there'd be a bad aim joke in there (maybe Omar Isaac's character has to tell him to use the targeting and not shoot blindly or something).

There might have been one or two too many bumbling Finn jokes but it didn't cross the line for me. (And all of his stuff with BB8 was great. Maybe one of my favorite parts in the movie.)

----
NBA MOCK DRAFT #1 - https://thecourierclass.com/whole-shebang/2017/5/18/2017-nba-mock-draft-1-just-lotto-and-lotta-trades

  

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bshelly
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Fri Dec-18-15 11:15 PM

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52. "I really liked it BUT"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

1) it better start to diverge from the original trilogy in episode 8. Stuff is just way too similar

2) there better be a damn good reason why Luke's Jedi School 1.0 failed. If it's because Snyde is actually Palpatine' s boss, fine, I can get down with that. But if they make Luke into yoda 2.0, just chillin and being a sad failure on a deserted island, I will be sooooo mad.

----
bshelly

"You (Fisher) could get fired, Les Snead could get fired, Kevin Demoff could get fired, but I will always be Eric Dickerson.” (c) The God

  

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blkprinceMD05
Member since Nov 29th 2004
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60. "a lot of y'all are saying y'all really liked it but...."
In response to Reply # 52


  

          

>1) it better start to diverge from the original trilogy in
>episode 8. Stuff is just way too similar
>
The plot was completely unoriginal. Are y'all just not wanting to admit to urselves that it was a bit of a let down.


Star Trek reboot>>>>>>>>>>>episode 7

prototype

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believe in love, prepare urself for love, remove the negativity from ur life, and accept the love u kno u deserve

  

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bshelly
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64. "Nah, I can dig it but still be worried"
In response to Reply # 60


  

          

I mostly agree with Longo. It's great for setting up the franchise, the actions sequences were tight, and they managed the first part of the transition to the new generation pretty well. But as a Star Wars obsessive, I can still recognize the plot holes and worry about where we're headed

----
bshelly

"You (Fisher) could get fired, Les Snead could get fired, Kevin Demoff could get fired, but I will always be Eric Dickerson.” (c) The God

  

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blkprinceMD05
Member since Nov 29th 2004
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Sat Dec-19-15 10:10 AM

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66. "Yeah at this point there shouldnt be a film 'setting up a franchise'"
In response to Reply # 64
Sat Dec-19-15 10:11 AM by blkprinceMD05

  

          

Or laying the table for episodes 8 and 9. This a well established franchise at the back end. Introduce the new characters and a new purpose/goal for them (which they kinda did with the goal of bringing Luke back into the fold) but don't just reimagine the plot of an earlier franchise episode

prototype

stand ur ground, believe in urself,
believe in love, prepare urself for love, remove the negativity from ur life, and accept the love u kno u deserve

  

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Frank Longo
Member since Nov 18th 2003
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Sat Dec-19-15 01:01 PM

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73. "Re: the action... it's not great, honestly. Prequels have better action."
In response to Reply # 64
Sat Dec-19-15 01:02 PM by Frank Longo

  

          

It's effective enough, but nothing special. There have been multiple action movies in 2015 alone with better action.

Abrams is waaaaaay way better at character, which makes this movie far more enjoyable in general than the prequels, but nothing in this approaches the quality of the action in the prequels except *maybe* the final light saber battle... but even then, that battle only really has weight due to character, not because it's especially brilliantly shot. That light saber battle, in terms of quality, obviously doesn't sniff either the Darth Maul light saber fight or the Yoda light saber fight, just off the top of my head.

Lucas was absolutely terrible at character and story, but his action, just from a technical perspective, is pretty top-notch. I did sort of miss that here-- Star Wars has been known for having some epic action, and this action was all mostly workmanlike (and there was that awful action sequence with the CGI octopi... ugh).

My movies: http://russellhainline.com
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bshelly
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197. "But good action scenes are more than just technical achievement"
In response to Reply # 73


  

          

They make you feel like you're there and they mean something because you're invested in the story. The prequels just had technical masturbation.

----
bshelly

"You (Fisher) could get fired, Les Snead could get fired, Kevin Demoff could get fired, but I will always be Eric Dickerson.” (c) The God

  

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gusto
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114. "Mos DEF, JJ's Star Trek is much better than JJ's Star Wars"
In response to Reply # 60


  

          

much more enjoyable. Liked both. but SW was just too much of a reboot with out being called a reboot

>>1) it better start to diverge from the original trilogy in
>>episode 8. Stuff is just way too similar
>>
>The plot was completely unoriginal. Are y'all just not wanting
>to admit to urselves that it was a bit of a let down.
>
>
>Star Trek reboot>>>>>>>>>>>episode 7

..|.,

If you still don't know what Jade Typhoon is, click here:
http://jadetyphoon.blogspot.com/ (WS)

  

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blkprinceMD05
Member since Nov 29th 2004
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Sun Dec-20-15 07:19 AM

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117. "That's all I'm saying "
In response to Reply # 114


  

          

>much more enjoyable. Liked both. but SW was just too much of
>a reboot with out being called a reboot
>
>>>1) it better start to diverge from the original trilogy in
>>>episode 8. Stuff is just way too similar
>>>
>>
>

prototype

stand ur ground, believe in urself,
believe in love, prepare urself for love, remove the negativity from ur life, and accept the love u kno u deserve

  

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Orbit_Established
Member since Oct 27th 2002
52934 posts
Sun Dec-20-15 09:20 AM

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119. "JJ's Star Trek was criticized for not being Star Trek enough"
In response to Reply # 114


  

          


So he made a Star Wars the way everyone loved Star Wars
and cats hate on that too

LOL

No way to win

  

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KnowOne
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149. "^THIS^"
In response to Reply # 119


  

          

nm

_________________________________________
"Too weird to live.... too rare to die..."

IG: KnowOne215 | PS+ ID: KnowOne215

  

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spenzalii
Member since Jan 02nd 2004
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259. "^^ Pretty much. Lose lose with both franchises"
In response to Reply # 119


  

          

I can understand why they had to make ST an action film, and understand why a number of fans hated JJ because of it. With SW I can see why they chose the 'safe' path and made it a rehash of New Hope, as it gives a new generation a start point much like their parents, takes a big swig of nostalgia juice for those old enough to remember the original trilogy, and does its damnedest to undo make you forget the bad taste of the prequels. Mind you, it doesn't excuse the lightweight story, but it explains the direction it took

<-- Dave Thomas knows what's up...
__________________________

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Cold Truth
Member since Jan 28th 2004
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Sat Dec-19-15 12:19 AM

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58. "Very mediocre until I see 8 and 9. "
In response to Reply # 0
Sat Dec-19-15 12:19 AM by Cold Truth

  

          

This was obviously a table setter going in but the writing felt very empty in regard to the three main characters, particularly Rey since she's clearly the centerpiece.

It's clear this was approached with a loving hand with heavy nods toward ANH, but it was too heavy if you ask me. I'm cool with getting a sense of history repeating itself but they lined up too many elements far too closely for my tastes.

One element I was very grateful for- particularly in relation to eps 1-3- is that this wasn't bogged down with 45 minutes of political minutiae. I can take or leave Kylo Ren/Adam Driver. There was nothing especially bad about him but neither was there anything remarkable about him. He's just kind of there to me.

For now there wasn't enough building of this new SW world or it's new heroes for a movie that seemed primarily intent on world building and introducing new heroes, but there's enough here that this might well wind up a very good first act within the greater context of the trilogy.

  

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Heinz
Member since Dec 26th 2003
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Sat Dec-19-15 03:12 PM

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80. "I think the building of the new characters was excellent"
In response to Reply # 58


  

          

You have to remember they can have only so much time as this film is also about passing the torch and letting go of the old cast so those guys have to have enough screen time. Killing Han makes room for Luke. I think we will only see 2 or 1 of Chewie, R2, C3P0, or Leia stick around by the end of the ep9. Not that they will all die but some will just go away. I hope there's less of find OG cast in the next one other than Luke.

I didn't get bored once during this movie. I fail to see where people say it lags. I call bullshit

  

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Cold Truth
Member since Jan 28th 2004
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Sat Dec-19-15 05:55 PM

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95. "You call bullshit on an opinion? Okay, player. "
In response to Reply # 80
Sat Dec-19-15 06:02 PM by Cold Truth

  

          

>You have to remember they can have only so much time as this
>film is also about passing the torch and letting go of the old
>cast so those guys have to have enough screen time.

Yes. I realize this. Hence, the bit about me waiting to see where it fits in with the next two to properly evaluate how I feel about this. the circumstances and what they were trying to do doesn't change how I feel about the way they executed that vision.

>I didn't get bored once during this movie. I fail to see where
>people say it lags. I call bullshit

Cool. You didn't get bored. I was bored by a lot of it. It was pretty slow to me. It's hilariou that you "call bullshit" on that.

I call bullshit over stans who catch feelings and call "call bullshit" when others see it differently.

I usually "call bullshit" when objectively viewed facts do not support the opinion (sports is great for this), not when the opinion is subjective in nature.

If, for example, one said Luke hogged up too much screen time, that would be objectively false. It's an opinion that does not bear out in the facts that he was only in the film at the very end and only for a minute. Not much room for discussion.

If, for example, one says that Rey's story wasn't all that well executed, that's subjective and there is plenty of room for discussion.

If, for example, I said I don't buy Fin remotely holding his own against Kylo, ostensibly a reasonably well trained Sith, to say nothing of Rey even with her raw abilities, well that's a subjective opinion that does have some weight based on the facts at hand.

Not sure how you're "calling bullshit" on a very subjective element. You weren't bored, great, but calling "bullshit" on someone who was is just plain silly.

  

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Paps_Smear
Member since Feb 02nd 2009
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Sat Dec-19-15 08:23 PM

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106. "Kylo isn't a sith yet"
In response to Reply # 95


  

          

>If, for example, I said I don't buy Fin remotely holding his
>own against Kylo, ostensibly a reasonably well trained Sith,
>to say nothing of Rey even with her raw abilities, well that's
>a subjective opinion that does have some weight based on the
>facts at hand.

Which is why Fin held his own against him, and is why when he was defeated and rescued before the plant blew up Snoke said he needs to complete his training.

He's powerful in the force, which is why he stopped that laser mid air, but for now he's not fully as trained as a young Luke and Vadar. I suspect he'll gain more power and more ability with his light saber in the future films.

I also call bullshit on some of the nip picking though, seeing as this is the first part to a new trilogy.

=================
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Cold Truth
Member since Jan 28th 2004
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Sat Dec-26-15 01:27 PM

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273. "That still doesn't hold. No way Finn should have been able to hang. "
In response to Reply # 106


  

          

Again... depending on what develops from here I may come back and view things differently. If Finn turns out to also have some serious Force sensitivity and Ren was purposely holding back due to his inner conflicts, I may look at this slightly different but for now? NOPE. Even after a second viewing last night... No way in hell.

Even if he still needed some training to become an official Sith, Kylo should have plowed through Finn. Rey is a different story and I've come around on her because she appears to be a Skywalker as she's following a suspiciously familiar pattern for that family and the more I think about it I can easily see her being ridiculously powerful without a second of actual training by the way she was written.

>I also call bullshit on some of the nip picking though, seeing
>as this is the first part to a new trilogy.

I call bullshit on the term "nip", since the phrase is "nit picking", as in searching for lice in a child's hair.

All jokes aside, these details aren't nitpicking. It's the first in a new trilogy and many were hoping for something a little more developed story wise to get the ball rolling. We didn't quite get that and people love it as is so what's the big deal?

  

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Innocent Criminal
Member since May 03rd 2003
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116. "Kylo vs Finn/Rey"
In response to Reply # 95


  

          

Remember he got gutted by Chewie's bowcaster, that would probably have left him a little weak in his fight against Finn and Rey.

________________________________
There are dozens of us! Dozens!

  

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Orbit_Established
Member since Oct 27th 2002
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121. "Dude was bleeding to death + not that nice to begin with"
In response to Reply # 116


  

          


Nothing wrong with that scene

----------------------------



O_E: "Acts like an asshole and posts with imperial disdain"




"I ORBITs the solar system, listenin..."

(C)Keith Murray, "

  

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Cold Truth
Member since Jan 28th 2004
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Sat Dec-26-15 01:31 PM

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274. "I forgot about the shot from Chewy. In that case he's just weak as fuck "
In response to Reply # 116


  

          

Just plain weak.

Even injured he should have mopped the floor with Finn.

As I said, I may come back and see certain things differently depending on the way 8 and 9 pan out.

  

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Orbit_Established
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172. "Don't make excuses. It was medicore"
In response to Reply # 58


  

          


----------------------------



O_E: "Acts like an asshole and posts with imperial disdain"




"I ORBITs the solar system, listenin..."

(C)Keith Murray, "

  

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blkprinceMD05
Member since Nov 29th 2004
41323 posts
Sat Dec-19-15 12:48 AM

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61. "who was the old guy on tattoine, I mean jukka that Oscar Isaac got the "
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

Death Star plans, I mean the map to find Luke from? In the beginning?

prototype

stand ur ground, believe in urself,
believe in love, prepare urself for love, remove the negativity from ur life, and accept the love u kno u deserve

  

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bshelly
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Sat Dec-19-15 08:25 AM

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65. "my theory is that Luke got a secret Jedi coven"
In response to Reply # 61


  

          

Scattered throughout the Galaxy. That dude was one. Lupita is another,

----
bshelly

"You (Fisher) could get fired, Les Snead could get fired, Kevin Demoff could get fired, but I will always be Eric Dickerson.” (c) The God

  

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rorschach
Member since Nov 10th 2004
7723 posts
Sat Dec-19-15 05:44 AM

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62. "fuck this movie....."
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

Han shouldn't have gone out in some cringey semi-fetal mess. He's from the world of backstabbers and conniving assholes. He knows what the Dark Side is and what it can do to people.

Not to mention, he's arguably the most swagged out character ever committed to film. That scene could've been stronger but you know....that film was more into lifting A New Hope to think of a fresh sendoff for Han Solo.

  

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Orbit_Established
Member since Oct 27th 2002
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Sat Dec-19-15 11:53 PM

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111. "You explained why that's the only way he should die "
In response to Reply # 62


  

          


His son should be the only one who kills him.

  

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rorschach
Member since Nov 10th 2004
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Sun Dec-20-15 10:57 PM

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141. "I just feel a character like Han Solo should go out like a boss...."
In response to Reply # 111


  

          

The average Star Wars viewer didn't have the same attachment to Obi-Wan in A New Hope because that was the first film. Han, on the other hand, has been a well-loved character for almost 40 years. Even if Kylo Ren has to be the one who does it, let Han get another line or something in there on the way out.

That death had me in my feels....

  

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BrooklynWHAT
Member since Jun 15th 2007
85066 posts
Mon Dec-21-15 12:26 AM

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144. "that would've been od cheesy."
In response to Reply # 141


  

          

<--- Big Baller World Order

  

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StephBMore
Member since Sep 11th 2014
1373 posts
Sat Dec-19-15 10:39 AM

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68. "I really enjoyed it..."
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

I almost cried when Hans died. I was low key shocked. I mean obviously one of them was dying in that moment and it was going to be Ben.

I feel like Rey is Luke's child. But being a twin to Ben would make sense too. Because I think Ben is the failed jedi that Luke was training...

Wish there was more dialogue/explanation BUT seeing as how this is a reintroduction, I'm sure the next movie will be amazing and fulfill most of the gripes in this thread

  

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xangeluvr
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Tue Dec-22-15 11:28 AM

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220. "What do you mean think? "
In response to Reply # 68


  

          


>I feel like Rey is Luke's child. But being a twin to Ben would
>make sense too. Because I think Ben is the failed jedi that
>Luke was training...
>
>Wish there was more dialogue/explanation BUT seeing as how
>this is a reintroduction, I'm sure the next movie will be
>amazing and fulfill most of the gripes in this thread
>

What do you mean think? Didn't they flat out say that Ben was the bad apple? Did you not are the entire conversation between Leia and Han?

GamerTag and PSN: PokeEmAll

  

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BigReg
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235. "They didn't"
In response to Reply # 220


  

          

The movie told us that that Luke quit after a student betrayed the Jedi
The movie told us that Ben/Kylo trained with Luke.

They didn't make the connection 100%. Odds are that's the case, but they gave themselves enough wiggleroom where it could still be a third character (maybe Ben went dark after the other jedi went nuts etc).



>
>>I feel like Rey is Luke's child. But being a twin to Ben
>would
>>make sense too. Because I think Ben is the failed jedi that
>>Luke was training...
>>
>>Wish there was more dialogue/explanation BUT seeing as how
>>this is a reintroduction, I'm sure the next movie will be
>>amazing and fulfill most of the gripes in this thread
>>
>
>What do you mean think? Didn't they flat out say that Ben was
>the bad apple? Did you not are the entire conversation between
>Leia and Han?

  

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xangeluvr
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Tue Dec-22-15 06:15 PM

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241. "what about the convo between han/leia though?"
In response to Reply # 235


  

          

this is going off of just one viewing, but didn't that conversation make it seem like it WAS ben? han questioning how he could reach ben when luke couldn't?

that's what i got from it when watching. i'll probably see it one more time before it leaves the theater so i'll make sure to pay attention to this point.

>The movie told us that that Luke quit after a student
>betrayed the Jedi
>The movie told us that Ben/Kylo trained with Luke.
>
>They didn't make the connection 100%. Odds are that's the
>case, but they gave themselves enough wiggleroom where it
>could still be a third character (maybe Ben went dark after
>the other jedi went nuts etc).
>
>
>
>>
>>>I feel like Rey is Luke's child. But being a twin to Ben
>>would
>>>make sense too. Because I think Ben is the failed jedi that
>>>Luke was training...
>>>
>>>Wish there was more dialogue/explanation BUT seeing as how
>>>this is a reintroduction, I'm sure the next movie will be
>>>amazing and fulfill most of the gripes in this thread
>>>
>>
>>What do you mean think? Didn't they flat out say that Ben
>was
>>the bad apple? Did you not are the entire conversation
>between
>>Leia and Han?
>

GamerTag and PSN: PokeEmAll

  

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StephBMore
Member since Sep 11th 2014
1373 posts
Wed Dec-30-15 11:56 AM

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329. "i actually agree with you..."
In response to Reply # 241


  

          

and it's my belief that Ben was the bad apple that caused Luke to bounce...but like BigReg said it wasn't explicitly said, it's moreso implied. And my friend made an argument that it might not be so since we don't know for sure, I will say I THINK...because again, like Reg said they left that wiggle room so they can always change how they are going later. it could be the person who got to Ben was the one who went rogue.

  

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ThaTruth
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Sat Dec-19-15 11:18 AM

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69. "i wanted to love it but I didn't..."
In response to Reply # 0


          

- overall I felt like it moved kinda slow....

- like others have said I wasn't feeling the whole ANH remix down to the Death Star/Death Planet destruction

- I'm probably the minority but I didn't like the old characters having major roles, old ass Han Solo stumbling around, walking out on that bridge to his certain death, Leia had some weird ass jersey accent, then cracked out Mark Hamill at the end, they could've let those characters be and spent more time fleshing out the new ones.

-Kylo, is he a Sith? Don't they always come in 2's? Who trained him? How are Fin, a regular dude, and Rey, an untrained Jedi able to last more than a second in a light saber battle with him?

- Fin, I thought he was going to be a Jedi...and I thought all the storm troopers were clones of Boba Fett? Like others have said he could've been a little less buffoonish

- Rey, overall she's cool, I feel like they're trying to reel that hunger games crowd in. I thought her use of the force developed a little too quickly...

- Lupita was wasted

I definitely need to see it again...

________________________________________
"Take the surprise out your voice Shaq."-The REAL CP3
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v2H5K-BUMS0

  

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Innocent Criminal
Member since May 03rd 2003
14585 posts
Sat Dec-19-15 11:51 AM

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71. "RE: i wanted to love it but I didn't..."
In response to Reply # 69


  

          

Kylo most likely isn't a Sith and even if he is the rule of two would have died with Palpatine and Vader. Besides the rule of two was just something created by Bane because he was scared of all them up and comers. Its easier to watch one greedy power hungry apprentice than 20.

Jury is still out on if Finn will be force sensitive or not. Secondly, Storm Troopers haven't been clones in quite some time, remember they had accelerated aging that pretty much gave them short life spans. Once they began to die out they were replaced with regular ol' humans.


________________________________
There are dozens of us! Dozens!

  

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blkprinceMD05
Member since Nov 29th 2004
41323 posts
Sat Dec-19-15 02:44 PM

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76. "when was this revealed in the films?"
In response to Reply # 71


  

          


>Secondly, Storm Troopers haven't been clones in quite some
>time, remember they had accelerated aging that pretty much
>gave them short life spans. Once they began to die out they
>were replaced with regular ol' humans.
>
>
>

prototype

stand ur ground, believe in urself,
believe in love, prepare urself for love, remove the negativity from ur life, and accept the love u kno u deserve

  

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Innocent Criminal
Member since May 03rd 2003
14585 posts
Sat Dec-19-15 04:53 PM

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85. "Clone Wars tv show"
In response to Reply # 76


  

          

It's canon.

________________________________
There are dozens of us! Dozens!

  

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BrooklynWHAT
Member since Jun 15th 2007
85066 posts
Sat Dec-19-15 12:59 PM

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72. "Kylo isnt the finished article yet."
In response to Reply # 69


  

          

Thats why they can square up with him.

He has immense power (stopped that laser cold) but he cant control it and his internal struggle makes his force control iffy.

I expect him to be a terror in the 2nd flick

<--- Big Baller World Order

  

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handle
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Sat Dec-19-15 03:07 PM

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79. "It's was also an homage"
In response to Reply # 69


          

It's an homage to the 2nd draft of the original Star Wars that was titled: "Adventures of the Starkiller, Episode One: The Star Wars"

------------


Gone: My Discogs collection for The Roots:
http://www.discogs.com/user/tomhayes-roots/collection

  

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TheRealBillyOcean
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75. "Another thing, I wish Adam Driver was never on &quot;Girls&quot;..."
In response to Reply # 0
Sat Dec-19-15 01:25 PM by TheRealBillyOcean

          

Cuz after he took off the mask and started crying I kept expecting a naked pasty bad tattooed Lena Dunham to show up on that bridge with him and Han and do some doofy dance.

<---https://www.amazon.com/dp/B01DL9AVTQ

  

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blkprinceMD05
Member since Nov 29th 2004
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Sat Dec-19-15 02:51 PM

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77. "he didn't do enuff sans mask to make me forget his girls character eithe..."
In response to Reply # 75


  

          

I didn't want another helmeted villain but once he took his mask off he became less believable and I took him less seriously...he didn't really regain me until the fight with Rey...like when he killed Han I kept expecting him to laugh and be like just kidding kid

prototype

stand ur ground, believe in urself,
believe in love, prepare urself for love, remove the negativity from ur life, and accept the love u kno u deserve

  

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BrooklynWHAT
Member since Jun 15th 2007
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Sat Dec-19-15 02:58 PM

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78. "Thats why Kylo wears the mask tho"
In response to Reply # 77


  

          

Thats the point. He a softshouldered lil bitch trying to live up to what he thinks his legacy is.

<--- Big Baller World Order

  

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blkprinceMD05
Member since Nov 29th 2004
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Sat Dec-19-15 04:13 PM

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83. "True and that's all well and good. But I want to think of a soft shoulde..."
In response to Reply # 78


  

          

Weakling that's the son of Han and leia not of Hanna horbath's doofy boyfriend

prototype

stand ur ground, believe in urself,
believe in love, prepare urself for love, remove the negativity from ur life, and accept the love u kno u deserve

  

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MEAT
Member since Feb 08th 2008
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Sun Dec-20-15 01:30 AM

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113. "I couldn't hear him as anything but Adam. "
In response to Reply # 83
Sun Dec-20-15 01:30 AM by MEAT

  

          

As soon as he took off the mask I thought he was going to say "you think I'm bad don't you" or whatever the shit Adam said while jerking off (I've seen one episode of girls)

------
“There is no fate that cannot be surmounted by scorn.” -Albert Camus

  

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Orbit_Established
Member since Oct 27th 2002
52934 posts
Sun Dec-20-15 10:04 AM

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122. "I've never seen Driver in my life prior to Force Awakens"
In response to Reply # 83


  

          


So question yourself for watching that dumbass 'Girls'
shit

Didn't know dudes watched that

----------------------------



O_E: "Acts like an asshole and posts with imperial disdain"




"I ORBITs the solar system, listenin..."

(C)Keith Murray, "

  

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TheRealBillyOcean
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131. "http://www.huffingtonpost.com/kareem-abduljabbar/girls-review_b_2593756...."
In response to Reply # 122


          

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/kareem-abduljabbar/girls-review_b_2593756.html

I wouldn't suggest watching it, cuz it's not good. My lady likes it and it comes on HBO.

Driver was good in that Baumbach movie and Llewyn Davis

<---https://www.amazon.com/dp/B01DL9AVTQ

  

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StephBMore
Member since Sep 11th 2014
1373 posts
Sat Dec-19-15 05:00 PM

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86. "^^^THIS and that's why its perfect"
In response to Reply # 78


  

          

he can't be menacing, that's not his real path. Thats why he kept having trouble and saying "i still feel the light". He's not a bad person but he's trying to be something he's not. He needs the mask in order for that to work because he's really just a clown/dork.

I don't watch Girls tho so my view of him is in no way skewed.

  

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SoulHonky
Member since Jan 21st 2003
25919 posts
Sat Dec-19-15 04:01 PM

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81. "It was fine. Tough to be great with so many balls to juggle"
In response to Reply # 0


          

I agree with most of the issues above.

I was a bit let down when I realized that it was New Hope 2.0 (and I saw a headline called The Incomprehensible Politics of Force Awakens and agree that I never quite grasped. Why would The Republic have to pretend they weren't fighting The First Order?)

Mostly though, there were too many places to check-in to really fashion a great movie. I'd really love to know what Michael Arndt's take on it was. But the characters were all fairly superficial so it was tough for me to get THAT invested outside of the "Well, I like the franchise so I'll go with it."

Abrams isn't an action director and, as noted above, this film had too many characters for him to really work what he's good at. I'm a huge fan of Oscar Isaac but he felt out of place to me and his character was basically the cocky pilot.

All in all, I enjoyed myself. Can't imagine I'll watch it again.

----
NBA MOCK DRAFT #1 - https://thecourierclass.com/whole-shebang/2017/5/18/2017-nba-mock-draft-1-just-lotto-and-lotta-trades

  

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blkprinceMD05
Member since Nov 29th 2004
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Sat Dec-19-15 04:16 PM

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84. "!!!!"
In response to Reply # 81


  

          

>
>
>I was a bit let down when I realized that it was New Hope 2.0
>(and I saw a headline called The Incomprehensible Politics of
>Force Awakens and agree that I never quite grasped. Why would
>The Republic have to pretend they weren't fighting The First
>Order?)
>

All of this

prototype

stand ur ground, believe in urself,
believe in love, prepare urself for love, remove the negativity from ur life, and accept the love u kno u deserve

  

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Rjcc
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Sat Dec-19-15 05:02 PM

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88. "I need a spreadsheet for this"
In response to Reply # 81


          

>>>(and I saw a headline called The Incomprehensible Politics of Force Awakens and agree that I never quite grasped. Why would The Republic have to pretend they weren't fighting The First Order?)


like I don't want to get boggeddown in BS like the prequels, but wtf tho?

who is on what side and what weapons do they have?

www.engadgethd.com - the other stuff i'm looking at

  

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Marauder21
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Sat Dec-26-15 11:20 AM

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272. "Yeah, I was left thinking a lot about the politics"
In response to Reply # 81


  

          

Because the First Order is dedicated to crushing the New Republic (they can't keep using that name, right?) So why would they have to be secret supporters of the Resistance?

------

12 play and 12 planets are enlighten for all the Aliens to Party and free those on the Sex Planet-maxxx

XBL: trkc21
Twitter: @tyrcasey

  

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Tiger Woods
Member since Feb 15th 2004
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Sat Dec-19-15 04:12 PM

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82. "I thought it was thrilling. Second best after Empire."
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

I really did think everything was done so perfectly. When Rey and Finn turn and see the Falcon, that was a moment. When Leia first saw Han, that was a moment. When Rey gets the lightsaber, that was THE moment.

I can't see this again soon enough and I'm surprised at the lukewarm response of almost everyone in his thread, but people are entitled to their own opinions of course.

  

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dula dibiasi
Member since Apr 05th 2004
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Sat Dec-19-15 06:21 PM

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98. "I'm with you. I loved it."
In response to Reply # 82


  

          

that being said, the jaded yawny reaction round these parts doesn’t surprise me one bit. nothing less or more than i expected. can't please everyone.


>I can't see this again soon enough and I'm surprised at the
>lukewarm response of almost everyone in his thread, but people
>are entitled to their own opinions of course.

___

it is a capital mistake to theorize before one has data. insensibly one begins to twist facts to suit theories, instead of theories to suit facts. - sherlock holmes

  

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KCPlayer21
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Sat Dec-19-15 06:29 PM

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99. "That was why I wanted to see it opening night...."
In response to Reply # 82


  

          

for those moments when the theater cheered at what was going on on screen, folks cheering when they saw Leia and then cheering louder when they saw 3PO, cheering when Han and Chewie stepped onto the Falcon, cheering when they realized the "garbage" was the Millenium Falcon, all great moments to share with a group of true fans.....



We the children of the Light, you know what I mean?
That's why I'm hating on the darkness like Paula Deen
Cause in my hood they masked up like it's Halloween
We going hard for the Rock, but we not some fiends
- Andy Mineo

  

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Jon
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Mon Dec-21-15 09:25 PM

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201. "that's how i feel"
In response to Reply # 82


          

  

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lightworks
Member since Feb 17th 2006
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Sat Dec-19-15 05:01 PM

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87. "Where's the 'I had it my sister had it you have it' Luke VO from trailer..."
In response to Reply # 0


          

That wasn't in this and that to me implies Rey is Luke's kid

  

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BrooklynWHAT
Member since Jun 15th 2007
85066 posts
Sat Dec-19-15 05:08 PM

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91. "Yeah they left some shit out. My fav part of the trailer"
In response to Reply # 87


  

          

Why kylo rolls up on them in the snow woods with the mask on and turns his lightsaber on

<--- Big Baller World Order

  

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j0510
Member since Feb 02nd 2012
2315 posts
Sat Dec-19-15 05:15 PM

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92. "The VO is from RotJ and Mark Hamil re-recorded it specifically for the"
In response to Reply # 87


  

          

trailer. It was never meant to be in the movie.




A list of some of the things that were in the trailer but not in the movie.

http://io9.gizmodo.com/all-the-stuff-from-the-force-awakens-trailers-that-wasn-1748720944

  

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lightworks
Member since Feb 17th 2006
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Sat Dec-19-15 07:39 PM

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104. "Oh shit my bad. I feel dumb now. Thanks for the link!"
In response to Reply # 92


          

  

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go mack
Member since May 02nd 2008
4020 posts
Sat Dec-19-15 05:33 PM

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94. "Saw a 2nd time today"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

took my 9 year old son. I loved it even more this time I think, think the buildup for the first time I was slightly disappointed but knowing what happens this time around made me just enjoy everything as it is.

My son thinks its the best Star Wars yet, not really surprising to me, young viewers are gonna eat this up more than us old heads who have seen the trilogy a bazillion times.

  

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KCPlayer21
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Sat Dec-19-15 06:04 PM

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96. "I'm glad I went to see this twice before coming into this post...."
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

the way y'all are talking, I wonder if y'all ever enjoy anything y'all watch....



We the children of the Light, you know what I mean?
That's why I'm hating on the darkness like Paula Deen
Cause in my hood they masked up like it's Halloween
We going hard for the Rock, but we not some fiends
- Andy Mineo

  

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Tiger Woods
Member since Feb 15th 2004
18386 posts
Sat Dec-19-15 06:09 PM

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97. "I'm sayin - like what exactly did everyone hope for? "
In response to Reply # 96


  

          

This thing is a classic

  

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KCPlayer21
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Sat Dec-19-15 06:32 PM

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100. "I've spend the last 4 weeks....."
In response to Reply # 97


  

          

watching episodes 1 through 6 with my 10 year old who had never seen them, to see his face light up when that Star Wars logo hit the screen and the theme music start up, those are the moments you live for as a dad, we saw it last night and when it was over he turned around asked "can we see it again tomorrow?", and we were right back at the theater this morning for the early matinee. The homages and similarities to A New Hope didnt detract from The Force Awakens to me at all.....




We the children of the Light, you know what I mean?
That's why I'm hating on the darkness like Paula Deen
Cause in my hood they masked up like it's Halloween
We going hard for the Rock, but we not some fiends
- Andy Mineo

  

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go mack
Member since May 02nd 2008
4020 posts
Sat Dec-19-15 06:36 PM

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101. "RE: I've spend the last 4 weeks....."
In response to Reply # 100


  

          

Yep, seeing with my son made it even better today. I get some of the complaints but man, it is freaking awesome seeing a quality Star Wars flick after all these years.

Also, 95% RT score says most are in agreement.

  

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Scrapluv
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Sat Dec-19-15 08:18 PM

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105. "RE: I've spend the last 4 weeks....."
In response to Reply # 100


  

          

>when it was over he turned around asked "can we see it again
>tomorrow?", and we were right back at the theater this morning
>for the early matinee.

love this!

  

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Cold Truth
Member since Jan 28th 2004
44838 posts
Sat Dec-19-15 07:24 PM

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103. "I think people are being pretty clear on what they thought. "
In response to Reply # 97


  

          

I'm not seeing a ton of negative reviews of the film as a whole.

I'm seeing a ton of elements that people didn't care for, thought could be done better, or, in some cases, plain didn't like.

Let's not act like this is some mass slaughter of the film.

  

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Ted Gee Seal
Member since Apr 18th 2007
10091 posts
Mon Dec-21-15 11:37 PM

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212. "Yeah. Not to mention these replies don't address the critiques at all"
In response to Reply # 103


  

          

It's okay to love the movies, but folks acting like the critiques aren't valid without offering any counterpoints only make the critiques look more justified.

Just IMO though.

  

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Orbit_Established
Member since Oct 27th 2002
52934 posts
Mon Dec-21-15 11:55 PM

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214. "People have decided to love it, no matter how shitty it is. "
In response to Reply # 212


  

          


It's just one of those things

People decide something, they aren't letting up,
they aren't going to listen

----------------------------



O_E: "Acts like an asshole and posts with imperial disdain"




"I ORBITs the solar system, listenin..."

(C)Keith Murray, "

  

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Frank Longo
Member since Nov 18th 2003
86672 posts
Sat Dec-19-15 06:43 PM

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102. "I've seen over 100 movies this year. Enjoyed roughly 70-75 of them."
In response to Reply # 96


  

          

And I enjoyed this as well. I don't think pointing out some of the pretty inarguable flaws is proof that people "don't enjoy anything."

In fact, much of this post is populated with people who acknowledge the flaws but still say they enjoyed it.

Not to single out your reply, because you're far from the only one who says this in response to anyone who said anything bad about this (or Marvel, or DC, or Jurassic World for some people, or etc.). The first argument I always hear if critical of anything popular and/or tied to nostalgia like this is: "Boy, you people don't enjoy ANYTHING, huh?"

I stopped being a critic because I was accused of enjoying waaaaay too much, lol. Pointing out a film's flaws and enjoying the film as a whole aren't mutually exclusive.

My movies: http://russellhainline.com
My movie reviews: https://letterboxd.com/RussellHFilm/
My beer TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@thebeertravelguide

  

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Paps_Smear
Member since Feb 02nd 2009
4254 posts
Sat Dec-19-15 08:29 PM

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107. "Man"
In response to Reply # 96


  

          

I expected it so it is what it is

I enjoyed it a bunch, and honestly this is my top 2 or 3 Star Wars films.

Me and the kid will be back in the theater Monday to see this one again. Feel like they did an amazing job.

=================
Official Okay-Super Villain™

I only play the games that I win at -
Gamertag: Innovator
PSN: DurtyGambino
Steam: Durty Gambino
Twitch.tv/durtygambino

  

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Orbit_Established
Member since Oct 27th 2002
52934 posts
Sat Dec-19-15 08:37 PM

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108. "I'm over it: Star Wars just isn't the place for great mythology"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          


There will never be "magic" again.

That is over with.

Too many hands in the pot. Too many mouths to feed.

All we can hope for is good, fun, enjoyable movies.

And Episode 7 was just that.

There will be awesome moments, and charismatic
characters.

But if you want to read something magical, there's
hundreds of authors dreaming shit up at your local
bookstore. Lose yourself in that.

Hell, lose yourself in the extended Star Wars universe
stuff if you want.



  

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pdafunk
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Tue Dec-22-15 11:23 AM

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219. "for me, the magic/myth is in more than just the single movie"
In response to Reply # 108


  

          

it's in my 9 y.o daughter saying "i don't think kylo ren realizes that darth vader turns good at the end", or both my girls arguing about who gets to be rey and which one of them has to be rey's sister (and these are girls who saw frozen three times but never played elsa/anna).

so yeah, there might be some blinders on for those of us in the previous star wars generation. but as a movie that reintroduces the world and bridges the gap and makes my kids fall in love with star wars, in a way that the prequels never did, i will gladly take it.

------
"I can't promise I'll try. But I'll try to try."

  

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Orbit_Established
Member since Oct 27th 2002
52934 posts
Tue Dec-22-15 02:24 PM

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229. "I am FINE WITH THAT. And GOOD FOR YOU and your fam. "
In response to Reply # 219


  

          

>it's in my 9 y.o daughter saying "i don't think kylo ren
>realizes that darth vader turns good at the end", or both my
>girls arguing about who gets to be rey and which one of them
>has to be rey's sister (and these are girls who saw frozen
>three times but never played elsa/anna).
>
>so yeah, there might be some blinders on for those of us in
>the previous star wars generation. but as a movie that
>reintroduces the world and bridges the gap and makes my kids
>fall in love with star wars, in a way that the prequels never
>did, i will gladly take it.

GOOD FOR YOU. I'm SERIOUS.

My issue is this:

Everything you experienced can also be done with Gossip Girl.

And tons of other shitty little stories in shitty TV shows
and movies all over the TV universe.

If THAT IS WHAT STAR WARS HAS BECOME, then FINE!

If we admit that, we've conceded my major point.

It's not a storyline for interesting or compelling writing
and directing.

It's designed to for a bunch of random fun things to happen
on a screen.

I can roll with that. The only issue is this: I would just
as well have that experience with many many many other
sci fi or TV outfits that give me just as much joy, because
they are written better. The only thing they lack is the
nostalgia.

We forget that mythology is as old as human beings are. We
love all that shit because it's fascinating and telling and
connects with us in a lot of special ways.

That's what Beowulf was. And Dracula. And a lot of Samuarai
shit. And a lot of Egyptian shit. And some Malian Shit.

This ain't that.

This for some Jerry Springer set in space shit.

And FINE.



----------------------------



O_E: "Acts like an asshole and posts with imperial disdain"




"I ORBITs the solar system, listenin..."

(C)Keith Murray, "

  

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pdafunk
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Tue Dec-22-15 03:48 PM

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234. "i can certainly appreciate your point"
In response to Reply # 229
Tue Dec-22-15 03:58 PM by pdafunk

  

          

i just read the Dune series for the first time ever, because i was craving some of that deeper, mythological sci fi. but that's not what i was looking for with episode 8 (nor is that always what i'm looking for when i read).


>My issue is this:
>
>Everything you experienced can also be done with Gossip Girl.
>
>
>And tons of other shitty little stories in shitty TV shows
>and movies all over the TV universe.

if you mean there's a bunch of shallow, easily digestible stuff that is also fun to watch with my kids, sure. although gossip girl wouldn't be that.

but i'm talking specifically about something that i grew up with, enjoyed immensely, and am able to pass on to my kids in a way that isn't overbearing or trying to shove things down their throat. if episode 8 has my kids already calling back to episodes 4, 5, & 6; or leads to them reading some of the star wars books, then i'm willing to forgive some of it's fan service.

but i also think that it didn't need to go deep into star wars mythology. that mythology is already there and the fans that care are aware of it. and i would gladly take just a shallow dip into mythology vs. the explanation of midichlorians any day. i also expect that we will get more of it in episode 9, assuming that luke's search for the original jedi temple wasn't just a throwaway plot point.


>If THAT IS WHAT STAR WARS HAS BECOME, then FINE!
>
>If we admit that, we've conceded my major point.
>
>It's not a storyline for interesting or compelling writing
>and directing.

i agree that in an ideal world, every star wars movie would be a combination of great writing, great character, great story, and great direction. but sometimes we have to settle for a bit less. in this case, i'm settling for interesting characters (most of the new ones), a fun space romp, some comedy, a little drama, and a set up for episode 9.

as to the jerry springer in space, lucas started all of that back when he decided to make leia luke's sister, after the love-triangle of episode 4. and i'm surprised that you praise mythology but bemoan some of the jerry springer aspects. i mean, oedipus alone would be enough. but you have fratricide with cain and abel or set and osiris; loki dressing thor in drag (when he is not trying to sleep with thor's wife); the tale of potiphar's wife. there is huge melodrama in mythology.




------
"I can't promise I'll try. But I'll try to try."

  

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rdhull
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Sat Dec-19-15 09:49 PM

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109. "saw the first in 77 as a kid..this was what longtime oldass fans wanted"
In response to Reply # 0
Sat Dec-19-15 10:03 PM by rdhull

  

          

and what we thought the Phantom menace was going to be

this was very satisfying..only two-three minor irritants




>Quite possible this might get locked, BUT....
>
>Here's a thread where you can put spoilers and your own
>reviews (that will contain spoilers) for The Force Awakens.
>
>Let's not spoil any other threads - people will be bummed.

  

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neilien
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Sun Dec-20-15 03:57 AM

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115. "what did the Supreme Leader say at the end?"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

a speaker blew so the for the last few minutes some of the dialogue was difficult to pick up.

  

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go mack
Member since May 02nd 2008
4020 posts
Sun Dec-20-15 07:58 AM

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118. "RE: what did the Supreme Leader say at the end?"
In response to Reply # 115


  

          

He told the General to pick up Kylo Ren and bring him to him to complete his training.

  

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KingMonte
Member since Feb 13th 2006
4675 posts
Sun Dec-20-15 07:56 PM

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136. "He said, "so we're getting to the real story in the next one?""
In response to Reply # 115


  

          

I have a 400 year old chip on my shoulder.

  

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blkprinceMD05
Member since Nov 29th 2004
41323 posts
Sun Dec-20-15 09:51 PM

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140. "lmao"
In response to Reply # 136


  

          

prototype

stand ur ground, believe in urself,
believe in love, prepare urself for love, remove the negativity from ur life, and accept the love u kno u deserve

  

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neilien
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289. "thank you"
In response to Reply # 136


  

          

  

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go mack
Member since May 02nd 2008
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Sun Dec-20-15 12:57 PM

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123. "Force Awakens remixes EU - I like this article, good points"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

http://www.slate.com/blogs/browbeat/2015/12/16/how_the_force_awakens_remixes_the_star_wars_expanded_universe.html

  

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mrshow
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Mon Dec-21-15 02:03 AM

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145. "Saying Snoke is based on Thrawn is a stretch"
In response to Reply # 123


          

I'd be fairly shocked if Abrams or Kennedy looked at much EU stuff when figuring Force Awakens out. Most of the ideas mentioned just feel like the natural continuations of the original trilogies ideas/characters.

  

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Orbit_Established
Member since Oct 27th 2002
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Mon Dec-21-15 09:52 AM

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150. "Abrams didn't read any of that shit. "
In response to Reply # 145


  

          


Him and a bunch of dudes just made a bunch of shitty
decisions at a table

----------------------------



O_E: "Acts like an asshole and posts with imperial disdain"




"I ORBITs the solar system, listenin..."

(C)Keith Murray, "

  

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mrshow
Charter member
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Tue Dec-22-15 05:16 PM

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238. "Man, your inner child is PISSED"
In response to Reply # 150


          

Again, it's a movie. Not a time machine.

  

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Orbit_Established
Member since Oct 27th 2002
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Tue Dec-22-15 05:50 PM

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239. "Your outer child misses Jar Jar Binks"
In response to Reply # 238


  

          


Nerd

  

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Rjcc
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Sun Dec-20-15 03:15 PM

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124. "seen it 2x."
In response to Reply # 0


          

loved it.
no, it's not cinematic perfection, but neither are any of the OG trilogy.

it's fucking great though.

of the stuff I'm most impressed with, the casting/acting is on point.

I only truly appreciated it on the second viewing when I wasn't so worried about missing something.

Fisher and Ford both brought it.
the one criticism I'll levy is that on second viewing, there's a lot of han solo gazing/screentime/nostalgia, although it's understandable because you ain't getting any more after this.


Boyega? Killed. Even better on the second viewing. His role came off far less slapsticky and I appreciated it more.

Ridley? Mannnnn, so many times I watch a movie and i'm like "out of the billion white women trying to act, you picked THIS ONE that can't act? for why?" none of that here, she pulled it off. If people have issues I don't know what they are.

Isaac been known as a good actor, did a lot with very little screen time, I have nothing to add.

I haven't really read any of the reviews so I dunno if people have talked about it, but Domnhall Gleeson deserves some shout outs, cuz I never figured him for a Star Wars bad guy but he did the damn thing. I like him as an actor but I wouldn't have figured he would play that character so well.

I thought Adam Driver held the character up as it was supposed to be, I'm not blown away by his performance or anything, but it was good.

saw it in 2D and 3D, if you can handle 3D I'd recommend seeing it that way. if you can't, don't sweat it. There's not a lot of difference in brightness/color/sharpness or anything.

the effects were so fucking good, a couple scenes weren't great green screening, although thinking back that struck me more in 3D, so it could possibly be an issue w/ the conversion but I'll wait till I see it again to say for sure.

there were some weird mid-shot aspect ratio changes, anyone else notice that?

www.engadgethd.com - the other stuff i'm looking at

  

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Scrapluv
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Sun Dec-20-15 03:27 PM

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127. "RE: seen it 2x."
In response to Reply # 124


  

          

>I haven't really read any of the reviews so I dunno if people
>have talked about it, but Domnhall Gleeson deserves some shout
>outs, cuz I never figured him for a Star Wars bad guy but he
>did the damn thing. I like him as an actor but I wouldn't have
>figured he would play that character so well.
>
Gleeson seemed to overact a tad on my first viewing, maybe the 2nd will change my opinion of his performance.

  

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jigga
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Mon Dec-21-15 03:53 PM

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180. "Didn't dig Gleeson initially, stepped out during the speech the 2nd x"
In response to Reply # 127


  

          

I had never seen him anything before Ex Machina but he was great in that one

>>I haven't really read any of the reviews so I dunno if
>people
>>have talked about it, but Domnhall Gleeson deserves some
>shout
>>outs, cuz I never figured him for a Star Wars bad guy but he
>>did the damn thing. I like him as an actor but I wouldn't
>have
>>figured he would play that character so well.
>>
>Gleeson seemed to overact a tad on my first viewing, maybe the
>2nd will change my opinion of his performance.

  

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Orbit_Established
Member since Oct 27th 2002
52934 posts
Sun Dec-20-15 03:19 PM

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125. "Fine movie, but reviews on BOTH SIDES are OFF. "
In response to Reply # 0
Sun Dec-20-15 03:20 PM by Orbit_Established

  

          

The negative comments are off, because nitpicking about
lineage and politics and who had what baby, or how much it's
like Ep 4 isn't relevant. None of those are the issues with
the movie.

The praise is off, because this movie isn't in the same planet
as 4,5,6 in any basic measure of filmmaking: pacing is hokey,
the interactions are mostly hokey, the story is clumsy.

It's a hokey, clumsy, awkward movie.

A very good, fun, beautiful, hokey, clumsy movie.

But it lacks the sheen of the 4,5,6. There's no real excuse
for that, so people who love the movie need to stop trying
to explain it with "well, it set everything up well." I don't
care. It was hokey. That's doesn't mean it's bad. But it's
a hokey dokey movie with very clumsy order of events.

Everything feels like a film where the point is to fit as
much interesting shit as possible into two hours+. It doesn't
feel like there are characters who autonomously and
organically stumble on interesting events because they operate
in an interesting world. That is how the original trilogy was.
There were actual characters dealing with stuff. They happened
to come together. And these cool things unfolded.

This movie lacked that.

This is why none of the performances are convincing: no one
ever really looks surprised, because they aren't. The actors
act like they are in a Star Wars movie. They know it. We know
it. And so they don't really come across as convincing people
(Finn comes close). It's just bunch of charismatic people
(and good actors) being shuttled between super important
events.

The old characters were the worst, because none of the give
a shit anymore. Having them play such a big role was a HUGE
mistake story-wise. They all mailed in their performances
because they don't care. Like, how passionate do you think
Fisher and Ford were in doing that scene about their breakup?
Both looked like they wanted nothing to do with it.

This trilogy is going to be fun, but Star Wars is done as
being interesting or relevant. The mythology is dead.

In some ways, the clumsiness of this movie makes me rethink
how bad the prequels were. Maybe pulling this off is just
difficult. And so maybe we were just too hard on Lucas.



  

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AZ
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Sun Dec-20-15 04:38 PM

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128. "I agree with everything (other than the prequel talk); in particular thi..."
In response to Reply # 125


          

>Everything feels like a film where the point is to fit as
>much interesting shit as possible into two hours+. It doesn't
>
>feel like there are characters who autonomously and
>organically stumble on interesting events because they operate
>
>in an interesting world. That is how the original trilogy was.

and this:

>The old characters were the worst, because none of the give
>a shit anymore. Having them play such a big role was a HUGE
>mistake story-wise. They all mailed in their performances
>because they don't care. Like, how passionate do you think
>Fisher and Ford were in doing that scene about their breakup?
>Both looked like they wanted nothing to do with it.

  

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SoulHonky
Member since Jan 21st 2003
25919 posts
Sun Dec-20-15 06:08 PM

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130. "So it IS a problem that it's like ANH"
In response to Reply # 125


          

It doesn't make sense to say that it wasn't a problem that it was so much like Episode 7 and then say:

"This is why none of the performances are convincing: no one
ever really looks surprised, because they aren't. The actors
act like they are in a Star Wars movie. They know it. We know
it. And so they don't really come across as convincing people
(Finn comes close). It's just bunch of charismatic people
(and good actors) being shuttled between super important
events."

They had a chance to build something original and they followed the same game plan with slight changes (like TFA Ben turns his light saber on while ANH turned his off in the bad guy kills mentor scene.)

It's hard to make a great movie AND bring back the old favorites like this did but to just blame it on it being a Star Wars movie and ignoring the actual plot similarities and that the new actors are basically trying to be new versions of iconic roles instead of completely new characters would seem to be the core of that problem.

----
NBA MOCK DRAFT #1 - https://thecourierclass.com/whole-shebang/2017/5/18/2017-nba-mock-draft-1-just-lotto-and-lotta-trades

  

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Orbit_Established
Member since Oct 27th 2002
52934 posts
Sun Dec-20-15 06:34 PM

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132. "Nah, that isn't it. "
In response to Reply # 130


  

          


>"This is why none of the performances are convincing: no one
>ever really looks surprised, because they aren't. The actors
>act like they are in a Star Wars movie. They know it. We know
it. And so they don't really come across as convincing people
>(Finn comes close). It's just bunch of charismatic people
>(and good actors) being shuttled between super important
>events."

Nah, it's not about the story being unoriginal

It's about it being clumsily written and executed

You can make non-hokey of the story in that film

Dial it down, remove the old actors almost completely,
work HARD on pacing the story

They weren't actually that essential

The actors were quite good, it wouldn't have been very
difficult with that talent


>They had a chance to build something original and they
>followed the same game plan with slight changes (like TFA Ben
>turns his light saber on while ANH turned his off in the bad
>guy kills mentor scene.)

That the stories mirrored each other wasn't the issue,
though

It's the pacing


>It's hard to make a great movie AND bring back the old
>favorites like this did but to just blame it on it being a
>Star Wars movie and ignoring the actual plot similarities and
>that the new actors are basically trying to be new versions of
>iconic roles instead of completely new characters would seem
>to be the core of that problem.

Nope

----------------------------



O_E: "Acts like an asshole and posts with imperial disdain"




"I ORBITs the solar system, listenin..."

(C)Keith Murray, "

  

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SoulHonky
Member since Jan 21st 2003
25919 posts
Sun Dec-20-15 07:36 PM

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134. "Of course you can."
In response to Reply # 132
Sun Dec-20-15 07:40 PM by SoulHonky

          

"You can make non-hokey of the story in that film

Dial it down, remove the old actors almost completely,
work HARD on pacing the story"

Right. It was called Star Wars Episode IV. It's almost the exact same story minus with some moments reversed, usually for the worse.
For instance, Leia effectively saves our young Jedi from a sand planet that doesn't know he/she is a Jedi and good guy from the wrong side of the tracks instead of getting saved in the first movie.
Finn not shooting at all mirrors Han shooting first.
But it was stronger when Luke's parents were killed rather than Ray's just disappearing and presumed dead. (Which was another issue - the film had A LOT of tell don't show.)

----
NBA MOCK DRAFT #1 - https://thecourierclass.com/whole-shebang/2017/5/18/2017-nba-mock-draft-1-just-lotto-and-lotta-trades

  

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Orbit_Established
Member since Oct 27th 2002
52934 posts
Sun Dec-20-15 07:49 PM

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135. "Ok, cool. I'm not saying I LIKED the similarities to ANH"
In response to Reply # 134


  

          



I'm saying you could have had a fine movie with the same
level of similarity.

I'm saying the problems were with BASIC film stuff: pacing,
hokey storytelling.

Like you, I would have PREFERRED an original story.

But the events themselves weren't my issue.

The pacing and storytelling and hokey dokey-ness was.



----------------------------



O_E: "Acts like an asshole and posts with imperial disdain"




"I ORBITs the solar system, listenin..."

(C)Keith Murray, "

  

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go mack
Member since May 02nd 2008
4020 posts
Mon Dec-21-15 10:26 AM

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152. "RE: Ok, cool. I'm not saying I LIKED the similarities to ANH"
In response to Reply # 135


  

          

I don't really get the pacing complaint.. maybe I'm not following you but this movie flowed pretty smooth for me from start to finish, more than A New Hope to be honest. I ain't saying its better but pacing or clumsy remarks don't seem correct. Also, I see young viewers who aren't so into the old movies putting this one as #1. JJ did what he needed to do in re-establishing the franchise.

I'm optimistic and hopeful that Episode 8 will be more original and not be another Empire.

  

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Orbit_Established
Member since Oct 27th 2002
52934 posts
Mon Dec-21-15 10:29 AM

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153. "Well, this is the point. It's all about $. "
In response to Reply # 152


  

          

>I don't really get the pacing complaint.. maybe I'm not
>following you but this movie flowed pretty smooth for me from
>start to finish, more than A New Hope to be honest.

That's just insane, so insane, that I'll ignore this comment

I ain't
>saying its better but pacing or clumsy remarks don't seem
>correct. Also, I see young viewers who aren't so into the old
>movies putting this one as #1. JJ did what he needed to do in
>re-establishing the franchise.

Well right, its about selling toys and T-shirts.

That's the point of this new trilogy.

JJ Abrams doesn't really care about making a great trilogy,
with great mythology, and storytelling magic.

That isn't the goal of this trilogy anymore.


>I'm optimistic and hopeful that Episode 8 will be more
>original and not be another Empire.

Episode 8 isn't out. Episode 7 is. So I'm discussing Episode
7.

And it was a clumsy remake.

Fun, cute movie.





----------------------------



O_E: "Acts like an asshole and posts with imperial disdain"




"I ORBITs the solar system, listenin..."

(C)Keith Murray, "

  

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Nodima
Member since Jul 30th 2008
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Mon Dec-21-15 11:24 AM

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156. "This post pairs best with my thoughts."
In response to Reply # 125


  

          

One of my most immediate thoughts as the credits began to roll was, "Man, without all the Star Wars imagery, this felt NOTHING like a Star Wars movie."


I can admit, and feel a bit flip for not saying as much below, that this was a "fun" movie. But it wasn't as fun as the last two Mission Impossible films, or John Wick, or several other recent action flicks. And if I apply knowledge of the series - prequels and all - to any of it, the action was severely disappointing.


But above all, I'm disappointed that this was a movie that consisted of a series of "hey look at this thing" moments. The movie lurched from moment to moment hoping the audience would connect the dots for it. It was a color by numbers book without any lines to color inside of.


And as someone said above, that CGI squid shit was a mess.


~~~~~~~~~
"This is the streets, and I am the trap." � Jay Bilas
http://www.popmatters.com/pm/archive/contributor/517
Hip Hop Handbook: http://tinyurl.com/ll4kzz

  

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bshelly
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Mon Dec-21-15 08:51 PM

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199. "as long as Disney respects the existing mythology"
In response to Reply # 125


  

          

New mythology will happen. Too many of us nerds are too invested. We will write terabytes of fan fiction, some of which Disney will make into books and recoup. The only way the new movies can completely blow the mythology aspect of Star Wars culture is if they disrespect the Big 3 characters.

As for a mythology in just the movies (as opposed to the new EU), there's still time, and this movie sets up some potentially interesting angles. Like, if Kylo and Rhea are siblings? There's your mythology.

----
bshelly

"You (Fisher) could get fired, Les Snead could get fired, Kevin Demoff could get fired, but I will always be Eric Dickerson.” (c) The God

  

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Orbit_Established
Member since Oct 27th 2002
52934 posts
Mon Dec-21-15 10:51 PM

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207. "Nah, this is spiraling into a space magic Jerry Springer episode"
In response to Reply # 199
Mon Dec-21-15 10:52 PM by Orbit_Established

  

          

Nobody knows who fucked who, when, and had what kids

Some of them have magic, and some don't

Some are just mad, at the people who have magic,
because they don't like their daddy, or because
their daddy was nicer to their other kids, didn't
come to their tournaments

And there's a government, that is corrupt, an a resistance,
and people searching for justice and truth and Barack
Obama

And then there's a very tall CGI person who is ugly and mad
for some reason that we've already been exposed to thousands
of times in other stories

And then there will be 27 coming of age stories in here

And then there is old wise man who is a tragic hero for some
reason and decided to go chill somewhere quiet and drink
woodroot tonic


It's not mythology.

Its stupid.

Too many of us were raised by Star Wars to admit it.

It hurts us inside to admit it, because by hating it, we
are hating a part of ourselves.

But it's shitty.

Cool movie.



----------------------------



O_E: "Acts like an asshole and posts with imperial disdain"




"I ORBITs the solar system, listenin..."

(C)Keith Murray, "

  

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Innocent Criminal
Member since May 03rd 2003
14585 posts
Sun Dec-20-15 05:12 PM

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129. "JJ explains how/why R2 woke up"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

http://www.ew.com/article/2015/12/20/jj-abrams-answers-burning-question-about-r2-d2-star-wars-force-awakens

________________________________
There are dozens of us! Dozens!

  

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Orbit_Established
Member since Oct 27th 2002
52934 posts
Sun Dec-20-15 06:38 PM

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133. "Jesus. That whole article proves my points"
In response to Reply # 129


  

          


Fine, awesome, cute, and witty

But MY GOODNESS this is a clumsily put together
movie

Look at how MAJOR decisions were made?

Explains a lot about this movie

This is not how you make an epic

An epic has to BEGIN with a message and an aesthetic

There's some shit you want to get across

This movie BEGAN with these little rinky dink details
and introductions

AND THEN it FOUND a way to fit them into the "story"

It is a GOOD movie

I enjoyed it

But yikes...there is NO MAGIC in this film. NOTHING.


----------------------------



O_E: "Acts like an asshole and posts with imperial disdain"




"I ORBITs the solar system, listenin..."

(C)Keith Murray, "

  

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Heinz
Member since Dec 26th 2003
20759 posts
Sun Dec-20-15 08:24 PM

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137. "Show us on the Black Series action figure where your uncle touched you"
In response to Reply # 133


  

          

  

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Orbit_Established
Member since Oct 27th 2002
52934 posts
Sun Dec-20-15 09:09 PM

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138. "Yowzers. I feel really sorry for some of you guys. "
In response to Reply # 137


  

          


That's a sad, mad, creepy dweeb of a reply.

: - (

Happy holidays


----------------------------



O_E: "Acts like an asshole and posts with imperial disdain"




"I ORBITs the solar system, listenin..."

(C)Keith Murray, "

  

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Heinz
Member since Dec 26th 2003
20759 posts
Sun Dec-20-15 11:03 PM

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142. "LMAO lighten up dude."
In response to Reply # 138
Sun Dec-20-15 11:03 PM by Heinz

  

          

We know you want your opinion to be heard but we still think the movie was great. Get over it?

  

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Orbit_Established
Member since Oct 27th 2002
52934 posts
Mon Dec-21-15 08:30 AM

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147. "Hey, you're the one who mentioned child molestation"
In response to Reply # 142
Mon Dec-21-15 08:35 AM by Orbit_Established

  

          

All because I pointed out some basic flaws

Must have struck a nerve

Now that you got me going, though, I'm gonna pick and
prod and make you even madder



----------------------------



O_E: "Acts like an asshole and posts with imperial disdain"




"I ORBITs the solar system, listenin..."

(C)Keith Murray, "

  

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xangeluvr
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Mon Dec-21-15 04:52 AM

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146. "I agree, what a shit answer"
In response to Reply # 133


  

          

Fuck it, I'm gonna go on believing that Luke turned him on cuz he sensed it was time to come back.

>Fine, awesome, cute, and witty
>
>But MY GOODNESS this is a clumsily put together
>movie
>
>Look at how MAJOR decisions were made?
>
>Explains a lot about this movie
>
>This is not how you make an epic
>
>An epic has to BEGIN with a message and an aesthetic
>
>There's some shit you want to get across
>
>This movie BEGAN with these little rinky dink details
>and introductions
>
>AND THEN it FOUND a way to fit them into the "story"
>
>It is a GOOD movie
>
>I enjoyed it
>
>But yikes...there is NO MAGIC in this film. NOTHING.
>
>
>----------------------------
>
>
>
>O_E: "Acts like an asshole and posts with imperial disdain"
>
>
>
>
>"I ORBITs the solar system, listenin..."
>
>(C)Keith Murray, "

GamerTag and PSN: PokeEmAll

  

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Tiger Woods
Member since Feb 15th 2004
18386 posts
Mon Dec-21-15 09:35 AM

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148. ""Luke turned him on because he was ready to help" >>>>>>"
In response to Reply # 146


  

          

  

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xangeluvr
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Mon Dec-21-15 01:08 PM

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167. "RE: "Luke turned him on because he was ready to help" >>>>>>"
In response to Reply # 148


  

          

Something like Luke sensed Rey tapping into the force and that it was time to start making moves to swing things back in the light side's favor is a better way to think about it than R2D2 just having a long boot cycle to me. Keep the idea that the force is this magical mystical thing.

GamerTag and PSN: PokeEmAll

  

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xangeluvr
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Thu Dec-24-15 01:57 AM

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261. "better answer below"
In response to Reply # 167


  

          

>Something like Luke sensed Rey tapping into the force and
>that it was time to start making moves to swing things back in
>the light side's favor is a better way to think about it than
>R2D2 just having a long boot cycle to me. Keep the idea that
>the force is this magical mystical thing.

theprofessional gave a better answer to why R2 woke up. i didn't remember that it was the same scene as when Rey showed up. makes more sense.

GamerTag and PSN: PokeEmAll

  

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SoulHonky
Member since Jan 21st 2003
25919 posts
Mon Dec-21-15 01:05 PM

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166. "Crazy part is Abrams sees the problems, repeats them"
In response to Reply # 133


          

He said Star Trek Into Darkness had too many "nods" to "Wrath of Kahn". He also said that he had people writing a collection of scenes that, as a story, didn't pan out so he had to figure out how to make the scenes as exciting as possible.

JJ is basically the anti-Joss Whedon. Whedon creates worlds and gets lost in them and gets pissed when people want to mess with them. JJ seems to try to figure out what execs and audiences want and then has the story jump to that point regardless of whether it makes sense or not. Business-wise, that's why studios prefer to work with Abrams but it's why his work is mediocre at best to me.

----
NBA MOCK DRAFT #1 - https://thecourierclass.com/whole-shebang/2017/5/18/2017-nba-mock-draft-1-just-lotto-and-lotta-trades

  

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mrshow
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Mon Dec-21-15 01:30 PM

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169. "OE being brave with his "It's good/bad" stance"
In response to Reply # 133


          

  

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Orbit_Established
Member since Oct 27th 2002
52934 posts
Mon Dec-21-15 02:10 PM

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171. "Simple: enjoyable, fun movie. Shitty, goofy story."
In response to Reply # 169


  

          


I was supposed to be on my third viewing now but I'm
having a hard time making it for a second viewing. I will,
and if I feel differently, I'll admit it

----------------------------



O_E: "Acts like an asshole and posts with imperial disdain"




"I ORBITs the solar system, listenin..."

(C)Keith Murray, "

  

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mrshow
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Mon Dec-21-15 02:48 PM

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177. "Star Wars was/is/always will be goofy. It's part of its charm"
In response to Reply # 171
Mon Dec-21-15 02:53 PM by mrshow

          

You went into a movie with Chewbacca expecting Waiting for Godot and came out mad. A grown man expecting to view a movie like from the perspective of a 5 year old is kinda sad and creepy.

  

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Orbit_Established
Member since Oct 27th 2002
52934 posts
Mon Dec-21-15 05:03 PM

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187. "Nah, 4.5 and (even) 6 were well constructed, well made movies. "
In response to Reply # 177


  

          


>You went into a movie with Chewbacca expecting Waiting for
>Godot and came out mad.

Nah, you're mad that you waited all your life for a shitty
movie


A grown man expecting to view a
>movie like from the perspective of a 5 year old is kinda sad
>and creepy.

This is the second time one of you has gotten mad and
mentioned child molestation

I'm going to alert the mods the next time I see this,
because that's disgusting.


----------------------------



O_E: "Acts like an asshole and posts with imperial disdain"




"I ORBITs the solar system, listenin..."

(C)Keith Murray, "

  

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mrshow
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Mon Dec-21-15 08:46 PM

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198. "USE THE AGENDA, LUKE"
In response to Reply # 187


          

You know lightsabers aren't real, right?

  

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Orbit_Established
Member since Oct 27th 2002
52934 posts
Mon Dec-21-15 10:45 PM

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204. "No more child molestation references, please"
In response to Reply # 198


  

          


All because you waited a long time for a doo doo story



----------------------------



O_E: "Acts like an asshole and posts with imperial disdain"




"I ORBITs the solar system, listenin..."

(C)Keith Murray, "

  

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mrshow
Charter member
12567 posts
Mon Dec-21-15 11:10 PM

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210. "You wanted your childhood restored and got a movie instead"
In response to Reply # 204


          

So sad.

  

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Orbit_Established
Member since Oct 27th 2002
52934 posts
Mon Dec-21-15 11:28 PM

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211. "Opposite. I wanted a movie and got nods to my childhood"
In response to Reply # 210


  

          


Corny nods




----------------------------



O_E: "Acts like an asshole and posts with imperial disdain"




"I ORBITs the solar system, listenin..."

(C)Keith Murray, "

  

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mrshow
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Mon Dec-21-15 11:55 PM

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213. "You wanted friends and have 50,000 msg board posts instead"
In response to Reply # 211


          

Even sadder.

  

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Orbit_Established
Member since Oct 27th 2002
52934 posts
Mon Dec-21-15 11:59 PM

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215. "Ah, so you're conceding that the movie was shitty"
In response to Reply # 213


  

          


We're getting somewhere, you chester molester


----------------------------



O_E: "Acts like an asshole and posts with imperial disdain"




"I ORBITs the solar system, listenin..."

(C)Keith Murray, "

  

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mrshow
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Tue Dec-22-15 12:22 PM

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223. "Naw. It's a good star wars movie. Problem is.."
In response to Reply # 215


          

there's no space for that. Gawker-types like you need it to be the worst OR best shit ever ever because they have way too much emotionally-riding on it. You need to feel like you're inside an 8 year old's body again when you watch it. Anything less sends men like you into an internet rage. Hence your perpetual hissy fitting since seeing it.

  

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Orbit_Established
Member since Oct 27th 2002
52934 posts
Tue Dec-22-15 02:18 PM

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228. "Hey, if you want to pardon a shitty movie, fine. "
In response to Reply # 223


  

          


The whole "it was what it was supposed to be"

=

"Why are you guys expecting anything more than a shitty
movie!?!?"

If those are your expectations, good for you

I'm gonna keep talking about what the actual movie was.

And it was a mess.


----------------------------



O_E: "Acts like an asshole and posts with imperial disdain"




"I ORBITs the solar system, listenin..."

(C)Keith Murray, "

  

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mrshow
Charter member
12567 posts
Tue Dec-22-15 02:51 PM

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232. "Maybe don't go into a movie expecting to see it 5 times"
In response to Reply # 228


          

before you actually see it. The real question should be why you and other grown men have so much emotionally riding on a kids movie.

  

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Orbit_Established
Member since Oct 27th 2002
52934 posts
Tue Dec-22-15 05:50 PM

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240. "I'll take seeing a good movie one time"
In response to Reply # 232


  

          


Thanks, tho

----------------------------



O_E: "Acts like an asshole and posts with imperial disdain"




"I ORBITs the solar system, listenin..."

(C)Keith Murray, "

  

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blkprinceMD05
Member since Nov 29th 2004
41323 posts
Tue Dec-22-15 04:59 PM

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237. "ROFL"
In response to Reply # 213


  

          

prototype

stand ur ground, believe in urself,
believe in love, prepare urself for love, remove the negativity from ur life, and accept the love u kno u deserve

  

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bshelly
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71730 posts
Mon Jan-04-16 06:53 AM

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338. ""oh fuck, Luke skywalkers here" <--GOOD ANSWER"
In response to Reply # 129


  

          

Best possible explanation for making Luke the macguffin

----
bshelly

"You (Fisher) could get fired, Les Snead could get fired, Kevin Demoff could get fired, but I will always be Eric Dickerson.” (c) The God

  

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cgonz00cc
Member since Aug 01st 2002
35249 posts
Mon Jan-11-16 10:31 AM

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371. "reading this annoyed me."
In response to Reply # 129


  

          

Really seems like they want to use the Star Wars framework and all the cache and advantages that come with it, but then they act like they would be mortified if Luke's presense would have taken away from the new characters.

Fuck off with that ego shit about "your" characters. They gave hammill one no-lines scene, and he basically made the whole movie an inconsequential preamble to it just by giving a look. Stick to the basics guys.

WHAT A TIME TO BE ALIVE

  

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BrooklynWHAT
Member since Jun 15th 2007
85066 posts
Sun Dec-20-15 09:45 PM

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139. "Boyega at the London premiere was straight comedy (vid)"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

https://twitter.com/AoctaviusW/status/677646083653283840

this dude is so fucking excited to be in SW. it's awesome.

<--- Big Baller World Order

  

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blkprinceMD05
Member since Nov 29th 2004
41323 posts
Mon Dec-21-15 12:15 AM

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143. "lmao that was great. I'm happy for dude "
In response to Reply # 139


  

          

prototype

stand ur ground, believe in urself,
believe in love, prepare urself for love, remove the negativity from ur life, and accept the love u kno u deserve

  

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Nodima
Member since Jul 30th 2008
15297 posts
Mon Dec-21-15 11:04 AM

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154. "This movie was a mess."
In response to Reply # 0
Mon Dec-21-15 11:10 AM by Nodima

  

          

I prefer the prequels.

I am also not a spoil sport by nature, and prefer to run with the crowd, so don't take this as a case of wanting to feel separate from the masses.

The Force Awakens is a film that takes advantage of all the things people like about Star Wars to mask the fact that it is a boorish, confusing, far-too-long film. A dumb February castaway action flick repurposed as a Christmas blockbuster because a 'Star Wars' in front of a movie title demands eyes and ears.

I preferred the prequels, both as films and Star Wars properties. But I'm glad most people are enjoying the nostalgia of it all. I wish my nostalgia could cloud my judgement, but I've searched my feelings and know this to be true:

The Force Awakens is the filmic equivalent of a Cheesecake Factory, serving up just about any dish you could conceive of while failing to understand what makes any of it satisfying.

~~~~~~~~~
"This is the streets, and I am the trap." � Jay Bilas
http://www.popmatters.com/pm/archive/contributor/517
Hip Hop Handbook: http://tinyurl.com/ll4kzz

  

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Orbit_Established
Member since Oct 27th 2002
52934 posts
Mon Dec-21-15 11:23 AM

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155. "^^^^GODDAMN!!!!"
In response to Reply # 154


  

          

>I prefer the prequels.
>
>I am also not a spoil sport by nature, and prefer to run with
>the crowd, so don't take this as a case of wanting to feel
>separate from the masses.
>
>The Force Awakens is a film that takes advantage of all the
>things people like about Star Wars to mask the fact that it is
>a boorish, confusing, far-too-long film. A dumb February
>castaway action flick repurposed as a Christmas blockbuster
>because a 'Star Wars' in front of a movie title demands eyes
>and ears.
>
>I preferred the prequels, both as films and Star Wars
>properties. But I'm glad most people are enjoying the
>nostalgia of it all. I wish my nostalgia could cloud my
>judgement, but I've searched my feelings and know this to be
>true:
>
>The Force Awakens is the filmic equivalent of a Cheesecake
>Factory, serving up just about any dish you could conceive of
>while failing to understand what makes any of it satisfying.
>
>~~~~~~~~~
>"This is the streets, and I am the trap." � Jay Bilas
>http://www.popmatters.com/pm/archive/contributor/517
>Hip Hop Handbook: http://tinyurl.com/ll4kzz


----------------------------



O_E: "Acts like an asshole and posts with imperial disdain"




"I ORBITs the solar system, listenin..."

(C)Keith Murray, "

  

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Nodima
Member since Jul 30th 2008
15297 posts
Mon Dec-21-15 11:37 AM

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157. "RE: ^^^^GODDAMN!!!!"
In response to Reply # 155


  

          

The prequels made Star Wars far too complicated, unrelatable and inhuman, but it looked and felt like Star Wars, CGI and all.


The Force Awakens borrows Star Wars as an excuse to make money on a dumb movie about anonymous people (played very well, I have nothing bad to say about the acting at all) doing whatever the fuck's convenient.


It's the equivalent of filming the stupid stories I told myself with Han Solo and Boba Fett action figures as an eight year old.


The lightsaber fight sucked, and The Force never mattered less than it did here.


Kylo Ren was a pretty dope villain, loved his voice and the mean shit he did to that laser.


But if Luke Skywalker is THAT DUDE with The Force, and he had to train on a rinky dink smuggling ship for months just to understand how a lightsaber works, some slave girl and a Stormtrooper we never even saw pull a trigger shouldn't be able to just stumble onto a lightsaber and punk the kid who's A) established to have Skywalker blood and B) went to fucking Jedi school.


~~~~~~~~~
"This is the streets, and I am the trap." � Jay Bilas
http://www.popmatters.com/pm/archive/contributor/517
Hip Hop Handbook: http://tinyurl.com/ll4kzz

  

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BigReg
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Mon Dec-21-15 12:03 PM

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159. "Yeah. It stood unusual to me also"
In response to Reply # 157


  

          

>The lightsaber fight sucked, and The Force never mattered less
>than it did here.

While its no Darth Maul craziness, I thought the scene in general worked well (first with Finn then Rey) except for the below

>But if Luke Skywalker is THAT DUDE with The Force, and he had
>to train on a rinky dink smuggling ship for months just to
>understand how a lightsaber works, some slave girl and a
>Stormtrooper we never even saw pull a trigger shouldn't be
>able to just stumble onto a lightsaber and punk the kid who's
>A) established to have Skywalker blood and B) went to fucking
>Jedi school.

Ren was mortally wounded so imho it made sense how Finn, (who IS a trained soldier despite the hi-jinks) was able to hang for about a minute until he lost since no force powers were used and it was just 'mano o mano'.

However the absolute ownage that Rey gave Ren was bizarre. Now Rey's main theme as a character is that she bucks all damsel in distress stereotypes which I LOVED and worked well in other parts of the movie and made logical sense. She scraps dead tech so of course she would know her mechanics. As a lone 'weak' human in a hussle ass desert planet she would know how to run, fight off some assholes with her staff..etc or else she would have not survived.

But that nigga Kylo is a trained soldier, active force user...etc. And she fucking WHUPPED him in the force and in fighting! It felt like they got to the end of the script and was like 'OK, how do the badguys lose and the goodguys win" and just hit the fastforward button. It felt unearned and it weakened what was a great setup for the final act.

  

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Nodima
Member since Jul 30th 2008
15297 posts
Mon Dec-21-15 12:13 PM

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160. "Even if Ren was mortally wounded"
In response to Reply # 159
Mon Dec-21-15 12:19 PM by Nodima

  

          

He had the ability to freeze a laser AND PERSON in their place, something that I don't recall ever seeing in the previous films. (Also, can I just say how lame it is that the one expression of the force in this movie appeared to be some Darth Vader cosplayer holding his hand out and tightening his muscles so hard it shook around intensely? The force used to look a lot cooler.)

Rey realized she could harness the force like an hour before Ren came up on her in that snow field while Ren had been living that life for years and years, training under the sole remaining person/thing who'd harnessed both sides of the force and brought balance to the galaxy (until he didn't, because we'll find out eventually, I guess).

If Abrams wanted to go full on nostalgia with the shit, Ren should have sealed Finn in a block of ice and thrown Rey off the side of a cliff or something, mortal injury or not.

Either that or Han Solo should have gone Heihachi and thrown Kylo Ren into a volcano. That would have been a dope scene and made no sense just like the rest of the film.

UGH, THIS MOVIE.

~~~~~~~~~
"This is the streets, and I am the trap." � Jay Bilas
http://www.popmatters.com/pm/archive/contributor/517
Hip Hop Handbook: http://tinyurl.com/ll4kzz

  

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go mack
Member since May 02nd 2008
4020 posts
Mon Dec-21-15 02:16 PM

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173. "We don't know Ren is a trained soldier"
In response to Reply # 159


  

          

We don't know how long it has been since he turned, since Luke left etc

Maybe its only been 2 years? It doesn't take 20 years to grow a beard like that you know?

He obviously needs additional training referenced by Snoke saying "bring him so I can finish his training" or whatever he said.


Y'all coming in here doing your own Honest Trailers to this shit, can nitpick anything. lol It was fun, way more fun then the prequels.

  

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BigReg
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Mon Dec-21-15 03:04 PM

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179. "Yeah and no. The movie doesn't explicitly spell it out"
In response to Reply # 173
Mon Dec-21-15 03:11 PM by BigReg

  

          

but dude was literally one of the two heads of command the movie has under Snook and its not a stretch to assume he's got hundreds if not thousands under his command(gonna guess those battleships require a fuckload of manpower to fly); I doubt even the empire would say 'This nigga has the force, just bump him straight to general!'

And I took the below to mean more jedi training, not just plain military stuff

>He obviously needs additional training referenced by Snoke
>saying "bring him so I can finish his training" or whatever he
>said.
>

My thing is that the fight with Rey shouldn't have been a blowout; suddenly she was a jedi master and it seemed only to keep with the tone of the OG movies and give the good guys a strong win out the gate before pulling the rug from under them next movie.

  

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Rjcc
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Mon Dec-21-15 12:24 PM

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161. "which is all bullshit. stop it."
In response to Reply # 157
Mon Dec-21-15 12:29 PM by Rjcc

          

luke didn't train for "months" he was on dagobah for a bliiiink. and then a trip to fight vader


and he was awesome at everything right away.

pilot? great.

lightsaber fighting darth vader, the GOAT, with practically no experience? great

this is nothing new.

if you want to lie about the star wars universe go ahead, but really, let's not pretend this "I'm just a prodigy becuz force" shit is somehow brand new and unbelievable.

niggas kill me.

www.engadgethd.com - the other stuff i'm looking at

  

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Nodima
Member since Jul 30th 2008
15297 posts
Mon Dec-21-15 12:37 PM

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164. "RE: which is all bullshit. stop it."
In response to Reply # 161
Mon Dec-21-15 12:44 PM by Nodima

  

          

I am referring to his training with a lightsaber.


The Empire Strikes Back takes place three years after the first Star Wars. Presumably Luke spends a lot of that time standing in front of a training droid getting shot in the chest just like he did on the Millennium Falcon on the way to Alderaan.


In A New Hope he only uses the Force once, isn't even sure how he did, and it was basically him focusing super hard on a hole in the ground. He's told the Force is real and spends the following weeks/months thinking Obi-Wan might be kind of crazy until he hears his voice in his head. Rey is told the Force is real and uses it to mind control a Stormtrooper and defeat a trained Jedi/Sith hybrid maybe 24 hours later.


We didn't even see Luke mind control someone until four years after he was told of the Force's existence, and after training on his own for three years with a few days/weeks of master course training with the former baddest Jedi to ever walk the universe.


Why are YOU lying on the original films?


~~~~~~~~~
"This is the streets, and I am the trap." � Jay Bilas
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Rjcc
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183. "every single thing you listed"
In response to Reply # 164
Mon Dec-21-15 04:14 PM by Rjcc

          

is not possible for any of the other jedi.

when you got the force, you got it. shit is different for you.

there's no indication that Leia has ever trained in the force, but she still has it.

calling BS on applications of the apply-God-cream-here Force is some bullllshiiiiiit


Luke was a farmboy from nowhere who never did anything, and then bang he's a dope warrior. Even Rey at least had to grow up pretty much on her own, she's way tougher to me off rip just because of that

y'all don't want nobody else to be Luke, just let it go.

www.engadgethd.com - the other stuff i'm looking at

  

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Orbit_Established
Member since Oct 27th 2002
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Mon Dec-21-15 02:08 PM

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170. "How the fuck you hate Prometheus and like this shit?"
In response to Reply # 161


  

          


Get the fuck outta here RJ, you did not like this
dumbass movie

----------------------------



O_E: "Acts like an asshole and posts with imperial disdain"




"I ORBITs the solar system, listenin..."

(C)Keith Murray, "

  

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Rjcc
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182. "wait what, I love prometheus, you got me fucked up lol"
In response to Reply # 170


          


www.engadgethd.com - the other stuff i'm looking at

  

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ShinobiShaw
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158. "C+ needs improvement (spoilers)"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

I agree with some of the positive things people have said above. The sets looked amazing. The special effects were great. It looked GREAT.

However this movie needs a ton of work and they are going to have to do alot in the next 2 movies to convince me this isnt another prequel situation.

The characters were cool. I think they didn't use all three correctly. In my mind it went like

Poe = Han Solo like character in the movie. He was older and more charismatic. Also should have been in the damn movie more than 25 min.

Finn = force sensitive storm trooper. I know he was a rookie but he also should of had the best combat training out of the other 2. Make him the more "sensitive" force wielding user. Meaning he feels other emotions more strongly. I mean I thought that was what they were alluding to when he got all wigged out in the beginning. Him and Rey are supposed to have a bond right?

Rey = force sensitive techno wiz. I think she is a bit stiff at times but she did a pretty good job. Have her be the fix person of the crew and a jedi. I think her story and characters was interesting out of the other 2.

Kylo = Should of never taken his mask off ever. Even with the part with Han they should of only shown the back of his head and never the front.


The story was kinda shitty. It should of been this great space adventure to find Luke. Revisiting planets like Hoth, Tatoonie, Degobah. On some great treasure hunt where the 3 main heroes bond and grow stronger. Is this too much to fucking ask? We gotta sit thru them blowing up another death star like base? ARE YOU SERIOUS?

JJ Abrams fucking better come with it on the next 2. I'm giving this movie a pass but I got the side eye going on too.

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BigReg
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162. "It 'righted' the ship but at the cost of being a solid stand alone movie"
In response to Reply # 0
Mon Dec-21-15 12:26 PM by BigReg

  

          

The good:

Characters: Abrams and the actors nailed it; the secret to star wars was never the plot/special effects, etc...it was always the characters (and how iconic they've become over 40 years) and the new class stands up to muster. Even Kylo Ren's performance that some people are criticizing is LIGHTYEARS better then what Lucas/hayden did in the prequels.

The tone: Enough new groundwork was laid as far as mysteries/side plots etc so that they've got more then enough shit to mine for the next two sequels and all the side movies they already have lined up.

Now the bad?

It was a re-run: I guess when you've got literally billions onthe line you gotta play it safe. The movie was more concerned with fan service then telling a new story; its a pure nostalgia ride and as a result certain plot points felt lazy.

For example the First Order taking over the Empire and going full nazi sounds exciting to me as the possibilities for new evil shit....but they just built another death star, lol.

Hopefully subsequent directors/writers will have the freedom to take the story into different places in the main series. But if these sequels just end up being note for note remakes on Empire Strikes and jedi, what was the point?

  

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Rjcc
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163. "we'll have to wait until next year to see if they can do a new story"
In response to Reply # 162


          

which....I dunno if rian johnson has got it, but hey disney has been pretty good with this shit so far.

www.engadgethd.com - the other stuff i'm looking at

  

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Orbit_Established
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174. "What did you do with my Rjcc? Didn't you hate Avatar? "
In response to Reply # 163


  

          


How the fuck you hate Avatar and like this?

----------------------------



O_E: "Acts like an asshole and posts with imperial disdain"




"I ORBITs the solar system, listenin..."

(C)Keith Murray, "

  

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Rjcc
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184. "because Jake killed my nigga Tsu'tey AND took his chick"
In response to Reply # 174


          

and was somehow regarded as a hero for this. FOH

www.engadgethd.com - the other stuff i'm looking at

  

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Orbit_Established
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186. "Avatar was literally thousands of times better than this shit"
In response to Reply # 184


  

          


Thousands


----------------------------



O_E: "Acts like an asshole and posts with imperial disdain"




"I ORBITs the solar system, listenin..."

(C)Keith Murray, "

  

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pretentious username
Member since Jun 18th 2010
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Mon Dec-21-15 05:16 PM

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189. "jesus christ, no."
In response to Reply # 186


  

          

your troll bearings are way off, get that shit straightened out.

  

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Orbit_Established
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195. ""trolling" is saying Force Awakens is as good as A New Hope"
In response to Reply # 189


  

          


That's trolling

People are really mad that this movie is sloppy

----------------------------



O_E: "Acts like an asshole and posts with imperial disdain"




"I ORBITs the solar system, listenin..."

(C)Keith Murray, "

  

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ErnestLee
Member since Mar 03rd 2003
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Mon Dec-21-15 12:42 PM

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165. "Loved the movie, didnt care for the plot"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

Just way to much going back to the well. I did like the acting, the action, the visuals and most everything other than the story. The Han/Leia reunion recapping everything we had already figured out was pretty lame too.

---------------------------------------------------------

  

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calij81
Member since Jan 17th 2007
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Mon Dec-21-15 02:43 PM

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175. "Not as great as everyone is saying but not bad"
In response to Reply # 0
Mon Dec-21-15 02:56 PM by calij81

          

The excitement has got people grading this movie much higher than it deserves. If it didn't have the name Star Wars in front of it or if Lucas had directed it then both critics and fans would be grading this movie much harsher.

You could probably play ANH and TFA side by side and probably sync up scene for scene.

Please, no more Death Stars/Planet Killers.

They need to explain this whole relationship between the Republic and Resistance. I better see the New Republic military forces going after the First Order with full force in the next movie. The First Order just destroys an entire planetary system that is a member of the New Republic and the New Republics response is to just do nothing? Go about their business like nothing happened? The planet that was destroyed by the First Order, what planet was it? Was that the capital of the New Republic? How and why was that one chosen?

Kylo Ren getting whipped up by Rey was cool but it wasnt believable at all. The very first time Rey touches or even turns on a light saber and she can beat her trained cousin or brother with ease? At least Luke had some Jedi 101 for Dummies crash course training by Obi Wan. Ren had never even met a Jedi but she can beat someone who has been trained by both Luke and Snoke?

Overall it was fun and enjoyable even if it was a complete rehash of ANH. I give it a B- and would rank Episode III ahead of this.

  

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xangeluvr
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176. "you mixing names up like crazy, haha"
In response to Reply # 175


  

          

>The excitement has got people grading this movie much higher
>than it deserves. If it didn't have the name Star Wars in
>front of it or if Lucas had directed it then both critics and
>fans would be grading this movie much harsher.
>
>You could probably play ANH and TFA side by side and probably
>sync up scene for scene.
>
>Please, no more Death Stars/Planet Killers.
>
>They need to explain this whole relationship between the
>Republic and Resistance. I better see the New Republic
>military forces going after the Firet Order with full force in
>the next movie. The First Order just destroys an entire
>planetary system that is a member of the New Republic and the
>New Republics response is to just do nothing? Go about their
>business like nothing happened? The planet that was destroyed
>by the First Order, what planet was it? Was that the capital
>of the New Republic? How and why was that one chosen?
>
>Kylo Ren getting whipped up by Ren was cool but it was t
>believable at all. The very first time Ren touches or even
>turns on a light saber and she can beat her trained cousin or
>brother with ease? At least Luke had some Jedi 101 for Dummies
>crash course training by Obi Wan. Ren had never even met a
>Jedi but she can beat someone who has been trained by both
>Luke and Snoke?

GamerTag and PSN: PokeEmAll

  

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calij81
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Mon Dec-21-15 02:52 PM

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178. "Which names am I mixing up?"
In response to Reply # 176


          

The New Order?

Resistance?

I admit I am calling the Republic, the New Republic rather than just the Republic.

  

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xangeluvr
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202. "Ren and Rey"
In response to Reply # 178
Mon Dec-21-15 10:32 PM by xangeluvr

  

          

look toward the end there. i knew what you were talking about, just thought it was kinda funny.

PLUS, i see that you edited that shit so don't try and play like you didn't mix the names up. the original post with your mistakes is in my post since i RWQ'd that shit.

GamerTag and PSN: PokeEmAll

  

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calij81
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Mon Dec-21-15 10:50 PM

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205. "You're right I got those names mixed up and didn't notice it"
In response to Reply # 202


          

Their names are too similar. To bad Ren isn't Kylo's given name because that would add fuel to the idea that Ren and Rey are related. It would be similar to Luke and Leia.

  

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blkprinceMD05
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Mon Dec-21-15 04:03 PM

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181. "what name did he mix up? maybe the fact that ep7 was a re-"
In response to Reply # 176


  

          

hash of ep4 has *you* confused

prototype

stand ur ground, believe in urself,
believe in love, prepare urself for love, remove the negativity from ur life, and accept the love u kno u deserve

  

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go mack
Member since May 02nd 2008
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Mon Dec-21-15 05:57 PM

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190. "RE: what name did he mix up? maybe the fact that ep7 was a re-"
In response to Reply # 181


  

          

actually he mixed up Ren and Rey quite a bit towards the end but its all good. lol

  

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blkprinceMD05
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191. "reread, he mixed it once and the context made it quite clear"
In response to Reply # 190


  

          

who he was talking bout, ur reaching and weirdly so

prototype

stand ur ground, believe in urself,
believe in love, prepare urself for love, remove the negativity from ur life, and accept the love u kno u deserve

  

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xangeluvr
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203. "4 times actually"
In response to Reply # 191


  

          

he went back and edited his post (which is what you read) but if you look at my RWQ you will see the original post. he kept typing Ren when he meant Rey 4 times.

not a big deal, i know what he was saying, i just found a little humor in it that's all.

GamerTag and PSN: PokeEmAll

  

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blkprinceMD05
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209. "ok"
In response to Reply # 203


  

          

prototype

stand ur ground, believe in urself,
believe in love, prepare urself for love, remove the negativity from ur life, and accept the love u kno u deserve

  

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blkprinceMD05
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185. "yup, i realize now that this film had a VERY low bench mark"
In response to Reply # 175


  

          

>The excitement has got people grading this movie much higher
>than it deserves. If it didn't have the name Star Wars in
>front of it or if Lucas had directed it then both critics and
>fans would be grading this movie much harsher.

YUP, as long as it was "better" than any of the prequals and had lightsabers ppl were calling it the best thing ever. Hate the prequals all u want but at the very least that added original content to the story of the star wars universe


>
>You could probably play ANH and TFA side by side and probably
>sync up scene for scene.

LOL!!!!!
>
>Please, no more Death Stars/Planet Killers.
>
>They need to explain this whole relationship between the
>Republic and Resistance. I better see the New Republic
>military forces going after the First Order with full force in
>the next movie. The First Order just destroys an entire
>planetary system that is a member of the New Republic and the
>New Republics response is to just do nothing? Go about their
>business like nothing happened? The planet that was destroyed
>by the First Order, what planet was it? Was that the capital
>of the New Republic? How and why was that one chosen?
>
YES Please do! at this point i can only think that JJ did the resistance so TFA would be EXACTLY like ANH. i would have been a lot less bothered if it was the Republic battling the remnants of the empire, Leia could have still been a general, they coulda still had the X wing battles etc but why this goofy Resistance, that is financially supported by the Republic

i think the system the new death star destroyed was not the republic capital system but some other system but they were gonna get the republic capital (coruscant) but didnt get around to it.

prototype

stand ur ground, believe in urself,
believe in love, prepare urself for love, remove the negativity from ur life, and accept the love u kno u deserve

  

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pretentious username
Member since Jun 18th 2010
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Mon Dec-21-15 05:05 PM

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188. "Very enjoyable. Mostly glad it sets up the new trilogy well."
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

I thought it referenced the old stuff well without being too nostalgic. I knew either Han or Leia were dying so the story could go forward. I suppose you could argue it was too predictable for reasons like that, but it was fun and better than the prequels and that's all I wanted.

I hope this is the worst of the new trilogy quite frankly, but I'll count my blessings on this one. My main worry with JJ was that the franchise would look too much like the new Star treks, but this is clearly a Star Wars movie. Can't think of one lens flare incident honestly.

  

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blkprinceMD05
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Mon Dec-21-15 07:10 PM

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193. "i wish it had been the other way around, carrie fisher was horrible"
In response to Reply # 188


  

          

>I knew either Han or Leia were dying so the story
>could go forward.

prototype

stand ur ground, believe in urself,
believe in love, prepare urself for love, remove the negativity from ur life, and accept the love u kno u deserve

  

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pretentious username
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Tue Dec-22-15 02:53 PM

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233. "I was too, though storywise I'd say it makes more sense"
In response to Reply # 193


  

          

>>I knew either Han or Leia were dying so the story
>>could go forward.
>
>

I was glad they didn't do a big, corny Han/Leia getting back together thing.

  

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TheRealBillyOcean
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192. "Did anybody else think Chewie was gonna die when Han got killed? "
In response to Reply # 0


          

I thought he was gonna wild out, and get offed too.

I sat there trying to prep myself.

<---https://www.amazon.com/dp/B01DL9AVTQ

  

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Rjcc
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194. "nah bruh, they kill chewie in the last Star Wars movie ever"
In response to Reply # 192


          

cuz there ain't no coming back from that shit.

www.engadgethd.com - the other stuff i'm looking at

  

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Heinz
Member since Dec 26th 2003
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Mon Dec-21-15 08:40 PM

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196. "Yeah i think only Chewie is around by ep 9"
In response to Reply # 194


  

          

MAYBE C3PO

  

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Rjcc
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200. "going to be Chewie and R2 and relaxing"
In response to Reply # 196


          


www.engadgethd.com - the other stuff i'm looking at

  

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Heinz
Member since Dec 26th 2003
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206. "Ideally but i think they will let BB8 stand alone..."
In response to Reply # 200


  

          

i think we see R2 more in Rogue One than the new trilogy some how

  

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Tiger Woods
Member since Feb 15th 2004
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Mon Dec-21-15 11:06 PM

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208. "Chewie's not done with Kylo Ren"
In response to Reply # 192


  

          

  

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phenompyrus
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224. "I thought he was gone instead..."
In response to Reply # 192


          

They kept panning back and forth, and I was still sitting there thinking that Han wouldn't die as the franchise's most popular character.

We need to see a batshit crazy angry Chewbacca at some point, ripping the arms off of Stormtroopers and beating them to death.

Maybe that's just me though.

http://twitter.com/phenompyrus

Get Out the Room
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ternary_star
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Tue Dec-22-15 01:58 PM

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226. "would've been nice to have an R-rating"
In response to Reply # 192


  

          

in "reality" Chewie would've went full-Wolverine and started ripping Storm Troopers limb from limb.

but we all know Chewie's gonna ultimately get revenge for his boy's death and live happily ever after with the little Orange Yoda lady.

  

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Rjcc
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"in the book you get some arm-ripping action"


          

and I wonder if they left it out bc of ratings, because it would've been good, made sense, and cleared up a stupid fan theory about rey.

I also think it might not've looked great on screen

www.engadgethd.com - the other stuff i'm looking at

  

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Rjcc
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385. "in the book you get some arm-ripping action"
In response to Reply # 226


          

and I wonder if they left it out bc of ratings, because it would've been good, made sense, and cleared up a stupid fan theory about rey.

I also think it might not've looked great on screen

www.engadgethd.com - the other stuff i'm looking at

  

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justin_scott
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Tue Dec-22-15 05:36 AM

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217. "too much recycled from RTJ"
In response to Reply # 0
Tue Dec-22-15 05:51 AM by justin_scott

          

it's still a good movie, but at almost every turn I thought how they just took an idea from a previous film and made it slightly different (the death star becomes the super sized death planet, they blow up the death planet almost EXACTLY the same way as the death star!!!). Carrie Fisher was a complete bore for me. her scene with Han was just horrible. and without any context, han's son didn't have any weight as I have no idea why he ended up the way he did.

Snote or snoop, or whatever, is a horrible name.

I'm going to watch it once more, but I can say that I'm definitely disappointed. it's hyped as if it's a way better movie, but it's just ok.

I will say that I really liked Fin and the idea of his first battle and him not going through with anything. I did like kylo ren taking off his helmet and the interaction with him and the girl.

************************************************************

  

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Walleye
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Tue Dec-22-15 07:52 AM

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218. "Baby boomers: we didn't just save the world; we saved the galaxy"
In response to Reply # 0


          

In 1977, a bunch of characters in their 20s and 30s rebel against a father figure that's turned away from a vaguely defined spirit of goodness in search of power and domination. In 2015, that same ragtag crew have been fighting the forces of evil for almost four decades but are now faced with the problem of their early 30's children flirting with the same draw of power and domination.

I had a great time watching this. And I was really pleased with the casting. Finding actors who could actually have fun with something so culturally freighted was pretty impressive.

But I'm sick of being told how important my parents' generation is.

______________________________

"Walleye, a lot of things are going to go wrong in your life that technically aren't your fault. Always remember that this doesn't make you any less of an idiot"

--Walleye's Dad

  

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go mack
Member since May 02nd 2008
4020 posts
Tue Dec-22-15 11:36 AM

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221. "I can get down with this reasoning"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

http://www.vox.com/2015/12/22/10641652/star-wars-the-force-awakens-episode-8

OE is just getting ahead of the masses waiting to turn on the flick.
If Episode 8 is just a retelling of Empire, it will definitely make Force Awakens not nearly as good as it currently stands for most people, a fresh start to the franchise.

  

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SoulHonky
Member since Jan 21st 2003
25919 posts
Tue Dec-22-15 12:22 PM

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222. "Nah. Either way it's big, dumb, fun."
In response to Reply # 221


          

If BD Wong stealing the dino DNA is the impetus for an amazing Jurassic World 2 or if the next Jurassic movie is a shitty money grab, it doesn't change the fact that Jurassic World is big, dumb fun. It won't be any smarter or any dumber than it was before.

Similarly, retrofitting the destruction of Man of Steel into a story point in Batman v Superman doesn't really improve Man of Steel (which I'd say was big, dumb, and not much fun.)

The success of Rian Johnson's venture won't change JJ Abrams's execution/decision making.

----
NBA MOCK DRAFT #1 - https://thecourierclass.com/whole-shebang/2017/5/18/2017-nba-mock-draft-1-just-lotto-and-lotta-trades

  

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Orbit_Established
Member since Oct 27th 2002
52934 posts
Tue Dec-22-15 02:26 PM

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230. "^^^My man. Agreed on all. n/m"
In response to Reply # 222


  

          

>If BD Wong stealing the dino DNA is the impetus for an
>amazing Jurassic World 2 or if the next Jurassic movie is a
>shitty money grab, it doesn't change the fact that Jurassic
>World is big, dumb fun. It won't be any smarter or any dumber
>than it was before.
>
>Similarly, retrofitting the destruction of Man of Steel into a
>story point in Batman v Superman doesn't really improve Man of
>Steel (which I'd say was big, dumb, and not much fun.)
>
>The success of Rian Johnson's venture won't change JJ Abrams's
>execution/decision making.


----------------------------



O_E: "Acts like an asshole and posts with imperial disdain"




"I ORBITs the solar system, listenin..."

(C)Keith Murray, "

  

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dula dibiasi
Member since Apr 05th 2004
21925 posts
Tue Dec-22-15 01:47 PM

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225. "new republic / first order / resistance politics explained:"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

When the original Star Wars came out you didn't need much political context - there was an Empire and there was a Rebel Alliance fighting against it. We knew the Empire was new-ish, because the Senate was disbanded during the course of the movie, but that was all you really needed to know. The bad guys looked like space Nazis and we were off to the races.

It turns out we might need slightly more political context for Star Wars: The Force Awakens - context the movie doesn't supply. But it turns out some of the now-canon tie-in books do, and I've spent a little while at Wookieepedia figuring out just what the hell is up with The Resistance and the First Order.

Why do we need some context? Because the last time we saw the Star Wars galaxy the Empire had fallen - see the celebrations in the streets of Coruscant in the Special Edition - but now we're right back in what looks exactly, completely like the political context of the first Star Wars movie. There's an evil Nazi-like Empire running around and there are good guy Rebels in a hidden base. Not only is like nothing changed since Jedi, it's like we went back in time to the first film. But it's not quite so simple.

A little history: the Galactic Civil War didn't exactly end with the Battle of Endor. While that was the decisive turning point, it seems to have gone on for one more year, with the final final battle happening at Jakku. The Rebels formed the New Republic while the shattered remains of the Empire limped out to the Outer Rim, where you can easily disappear. It's wild space out there. Think of it like the Nazis who escaped to Argentina.

The Rebels set up the New Republic and, for reasons that escape me, established their capitol in the Hosnian System, on Hosnian Prime. While I get that Palpatine probably stunk up Coruscant, that planet was the seat of power of the Old Republic as well - I don't quite know why they moved. Maybe it's so that when Starkiller Base blows up a planet it isn't Coruscant, even though the planet blown up in The Force Awakens looks, for all intents and purposes, like Coruscant.

While the New Republic was getting back into the business of being a democratic society - ie, a lot of bickering and fighting and stalemates and poltical nonsense - the shards of the Empire were reforming on the Outer Rim under the guidance of the mysterious Supreme Leader Snoke. Most in the New Republic ignore the growing menace of the First Order, but not Leia - after all, the Organas have a history of seeing bad shit coming down the pike. She pleads with the New Republic to deal with the First Order, but everybody thinks she's overreacting; finally she's able to convince the powers-that-be to let her go off and lead a small resistance group which she then imaginatively names The Resistance. Basically this is like when the US sends advisors and some money and weapons to support an insurgent group in a communist (or now Islamic) country. The New Republic isn't fighting the war - the logo of The Resistance is pointedly the same as the logo of the Rebel Alliance, not The New Republic (which, to be fair, is pretty similar anyway) - but they're kind of fighting a proxy war led by Leia.

That's the basic set up; when The First Order blows up Hosnian Prime it's basically like a terrorist group going after the US because it has supported fighters in their home region. It's an extravagant move, of course, but The First Order, influenced greatly by the Empire, seems to think big.

When it's all laid out it's simple, but the movie really obfuscates it, leaving many people to scratch their head in confusion about the exact state of the galaxy at the opening of The Force Awakens. The true mystery - one that doesn't feel like a storytelling fumble - is just who and what Supreme Leader Snoke is. It seems clear that his recruitment of Ben Solo/Kylo Ren was a turning point in the struggle for The Resistance - this must be why they need Luke Skywalker so badly. But what role Snoke played in the formation of the First Order and how he turned Ben Solo are stories that remain to be told. The rest of this stuff was simply inconveniently hidden in books (many of them young reader novels, no less!).

http://birthmoviesdeath.com/2015/12/18/what-the-hell-is-the-story-with-the-resistance-and-the-first-order-in-the-f

___

it is a capital mistake to theorize before one has data. insensibly one begins to twist facts to suit theories, instead of theories to suit facts. - sherlock holmes

  

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Orbit_Established
Member since Oct 27th 2002
52934 posts
Tue Dec-22-15 02:17 PM

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227. "ZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ"
In response to Reply # 225
Tue Dec-22-15 02:39 PM by Orbit_Established

  

          

Write a compelling story that makes me give a shit,
that isn't patched together like an antique Howdy Doody
doll

Don't nobody care about none of that fuckery

Make me care about the actual movie I'm watching for
reasons OTHER THAN its a sequel to something that was
actually great

----------------------------



O_E: "Acts like an asshole and posts with imperial disdain"




"I ORBITs the solar system, listenin..."

(C)Keith Murray, "

  

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dula dibiasi
Member since Apr 05th 2004
21925 posts
Wed Dec-23-15 12:41 PM

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245. "ay listen, O..."
In response to Reply # 227


  

          

i know you gotta do what you do and all. and that's fine.

but i had a FANTASTIC time at the theater watching this movie. nothing anyone says is going to change that.

so there's really no need.

___

it is a capital mistake to theorize before one has data. insensibly one begins to twist facts to suit theories, instead of theories to suit facts. - sherlock holmes

  

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Orbit_Established
Member since Oct 27th 2002
52934 posts
Wed Dec-23-15 09:24 PM

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249. "Got you. Apologies. n/m"
In response to Reply # 245


  

          

  

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blkprinceMD05
Member since Nov 29th 2004
41323 posts
Wed Dec-23-15 06:29 PM

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248. "if only any of this had appeared in the film...but thanks"
In response to Reply # 225


  

          

that explains it better but its just an explanation for not being creative and point for point retelling the ANH story

prototype

stand ur ground, believe in urself,
believe in love, prepare urself for love, remove the negativity from ur life, and accept the love u kno u deserve

  

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pdafunk
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5445 posts
Tue Dec-22-15 02:40 PM

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231. "i'm with this guy"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          


http://www.theonion.com/article/fan-just-going-keep-open-mind-about-whether-new-st-52062


CHICAGO—In an effort to avoid making a judgment before he even enters the theater, local fan Mike Siedler confirmed Wednesday that he was going into tomorrow’s premiere with an open mind about whether Star Wars: The Force Awakens is the best or worst movie ever made. “It’s easy to jump to conclusions over such a highly anticipated movie, but I’m trying to be impartial about whether it’s the greatest thing I’ve ever seen or a colossal disappointment that will forever taint my treasured childhood memories,” said Siedler, adding that he would do his best to hold off on deciding if the film deserves to be immediately hailed as an all-time cinema classic alongside A New Hope and The Empire Strikes Back, or railed against as a crass commercial cash-in that makes the prequels look good in comparison. “I grew up on these movies, so I’m obviously bringing a lot of expectations, but I’ll try to be unbiased before determining if the new characters and storylines are an exciting direction for the series or a complete betrayal of everything Star Wars should be. Ultimately, if I can keep some perspective on whether J.J. Abrams is a genius who restored the magic and wonder of the Star Wars franchise or a talentless hack who shouldn’t be allowed anywhere near a film set, I’ll enjoy the movie more.” Siedler further added that he would refrain from deciding whether to spend half or all of his paycheck on The Force Awakens merchandise until after the film.

------
"I can't promise I'll try. But I'll try to try."

  

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Nappy Soul
Member since Jan 04th 2007
1181 posts
Tue Dec-22-15 04:59 PM

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236. "As epic as the first triology"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

It had its own problems but way better than the prequels. Loved the cameos. The guys from The Raid got me hype. I wish they showed them fighting.like someone said earlier, it along with Mad Max rekindled my love of the theater experience. The sounds,the score, the visuals and the cast took me back to the Star Wars of my youth.I was doubting JJ Abrams but he delivered something special here. It exceeded my expectation. I agree with most of the criticism some has raised but despite that,the movie was awesome to watch.

time is money, money is time
so i keep 7 o'clock in the bank and gain interest in the hour of God
I'm saving to buy my freedom, God, grant me wings, I'm too fly not to fly _ Saul Williams

  

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Stadiq
Member since Dec 21st 2005
4874 posts
Wed Dec-23-15 02:42 AM

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242. "Umm, this was hot/fun garbage"
In response to Reply # 0


          

This was a fun flick with cool characters, but
it wasn't a good Star Wars flick.

Props to the new cast, they killed it.

Happy for Boyega.

But this film requires you to turn off your brain.

So the old big 3 are some bitches huh??

Luke is hiding out...Solo is basically a dead beat
dad...the princess is lazy as sh!t.

Why did they all give up on Driver???

Solo hasn't been trying to save him?

Leia can't be bothered to try and save dude?

No wonder he's doing bad sh!t- his folks are
cowards.

Meanwhile uncle Luke is chilling on Jedi Island?

Damn, our old heroes fell the f$ck off, huh??

That and the dumb a$$ plot holes really
took me out of the flick.

Did they rush this hot garbage?!?

This was a big, fun, dumb, heartless, soulless,
plotless popcorn flick.

I guess that's what Star Wars fans want?? Who knew??

I don't get it.

OE is right. The mythology, the soul, the heart,
the details are all gone.

Star Wars is just another popcorn franchise. It isn't
special at all anymore.

Can anyone tell me why the film makers
assumed the audience was full of idiots?


  

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jorge123
Member since Jun 02nd 2012
376 posts
Wed Dec-23-15 10:31 PM

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251. "I respect the prequel trilogy more than this movie"
In response to Reply # 242


          

and I thought the prequel trilogy was horrible and nigh-unwatchable at times. But the problem with the prequel trilogy is that it tried to be too Star Warsy and forgot to be an actual movie. This movie's problem was that it tried to be too much like generic summer blockbuster superhero movie de jour, and forgot to be an actual Star Wars movie.

So even though the prequels were undeniably worse movies, I give them an A for effort. This movie was a huge disappointment, and Star Wars has effectively been killed to me at this point (the original trilogy will always be some of my favorite movies ever though).

This movie was like the Star Wars version of the first Hobbit movie. Everybody who "liked" it says, "Just wait until the next one comes out, they'll fix all the shit that was wrong with it!" Except that's not how things ever end up.

  

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Nodima
Member since Jul 30th 2008
15297 posts
Thu Dec-24-15 11:10 AM

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265. "this is perfect."
In response to Reply # 251


  

          


>This movie was like the Star Wars version of the first Hobbit
>movie. Everybody who "liked" it says, "Just wait until the
>next one comes out, they'll fix all the shit that was wrong
>with it!" Except that's not how things ever end up.


Totally summarizes what I said above, as well as O_E. You could watch The Hobbit side by side with Lord of the Rings and say, 'yea, those look like the same world.' But the actual details of the world, and the care with which the worlds are presented, is so off in The Hobbit and this movie that it feels like a generic movie borrowing the lore of a beloved franchise to build itself up.


What was stranger about The Hobbit (before news of its production pipeline reached the general public) was that it had most of the same crew. I figured Abrams wouldn't be able to just transform into George Lucas - especially since he's trying so hard to climb inside Stephen Spielberg's skin - but I figured his reverence for the conventions of his idols would lead to a fairly familiar feeling movie.


The Force Awakens looked like Star Wars, but the camera didn't seem interested in looking at all that stuff the same as it had before. It was jarring. Alongside the heavily action-oriented script (ignoring that the action was fairly bland) and convenient lack of explanation for several things just because the movie needed to move and end, this was a huge annoyance of mine. The movie felt like a guest in the universe, not part of the core family.


~~~~~~~~~
"This is the streets, and I am the trap." � Jay Bilas
http://www.popmatters.com/pm/archive/contributor/517
Hip Hop Handbook: http://tinyurl.com/ll4kzz

  

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Stadiq
Member since Dec 21st 2005
4874 posts
Wed Dec-23-15 03:24 AM

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243. "Our old heroes ended up dead beats"
In response to Reply # 0


          


Luke is chilling out on Jedi Island while his
friend and billions other die.

Solo is a dead beat dad. His kid turned evil,
and he started hauling space elephants.

The princess seems like she's on so much
Prozac she doesn't know what planet she's
on. "Bring our son home" bitch, mount up let's
go. Not due why we waited 10-15 years, but
you're privelaged ass is coming with.

WTF???

This is what y'all waited 30 years for??

This sh!t was a dumbed down, rushed,
popcorn fueled reboot.

And on top of that, our heroes from the old
days each look more cowardly and b!tch
made than the last.

Faced down Vader, but scared of big eared
dude from Girls???? WTF??

Solo's death meant nothing. Not just because
it was ridiculously predictable, but the Solo
character wasn't even like able let alone
recognizable.

Jesus the bar was low for this movie.

And in the same year Creed came through
and crushed the buildings.

What a sh!t show.




  

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Tiger Woods
Member since Feb 15th 2004
18386 posts
Wed Dec-23-15 02:13 PM

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246. "one more time, why not"
In response to Reply # 243


  

          

  

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pretentious username
Member since Jun 18th 2010
12493 posts
Wed Dec-23-15 03:18 PM

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247. "what?"
In response to Reply # 243


  

          


>Solo's death meant nothing. Not just because
>it was ridiculously predictable, but the Solo
>character wasn't even like able let alone
>recognizable.

  

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jorge123
Member since Jun 02nd 2012
376 posts
Wed Dec-23-15 10:36 PM

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252. "RE: what?"
In response to Reply # 247


          

>
>>Solo's death meant nothing. Not just because
>>it was ridiculously predictable, but the Solo
>>character wasn't even like able let alone
>>recognizable.
>

It was painful watching the 75 year-old version of Han Solo and realizing that he was still doing the same shit that instead of actually evolving as a character he was just a more physically handicapped version of the swashbuckling womanizer he was 40 years ago. They could have made Han Solo evolve in some interesting way, but instead they wanted to rehash the old, "I've got a bad feeling about this" lines and behavior so that the audience could get their fix of nostalgia.

  

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theprofessional
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8761 posts
Wed Dec-23-15 11:08 PM

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254. "han solo did evolve. it didn't work."
In response to Reply # 252


  

          

he tried settling down with leia. it didn't work. he tried being a dad. his kid turned to the dark side. at this point, he's a 60-year-old divorced guy whose son won't talk to him, so he decides to go back to being han solo. he's SUPPOSED TO BE the old dog going back to his old tricks, it's SUPPOSED TO FEEL LIKE the retired hall of famer who tries to come back for one last hurrah and gets destroyed by the 20-year-olds. IT'S SUPPOSED TO BE SAD AND PATHETIC. did you watch the movie?

"i smack clowns with nouns, punch herbs with verbs..."

  

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jorge123
Member since Jun 02nd 2012
376 posts
Wed Dec-23-15 11:43 PM

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257. "Those were words that he spoke in front of a camera"
In response to Reply # 254


          

What they are is an excuse by the writers to not have to portray that part of his character, but rather to just stick with something that the audience would be familiar with. It worked for you - for me it was terrible. But I think that's the first time I've ever seen someone say that it was supposed to be painful to watch. Everyone who loves the movie seems to love that Han is back to his old ways, meaning they are not getting the feeling that you are describing at all.

  

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theprofessional
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Thu Dec-24-15 09:45 PM

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267. "nah, it's definitely supposed to be pathetic"
In response to Reply # 257


  

          

i mean, it's han solo, so he's always gonna have that swashbuckling twinkle in his eye, and harrison ford played the hell out of it. but the fact that when we meet him, he's resorted to smuggling these massive octopus monsters, which is dangerous and stupid and desperate, it's supposed to show how far he's fallen. the point being that this is not just the same character pulling out the same tricks from 30 years ago. he has indeed evolved, you just missed that part.

"i smack clowns with nouns, punch herbs with verbs..."

  

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Orbit_Established
Member since Oct 27th 2002
52934 posts
Sat Dec-26-15 09:46 PM

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277. "Nah, Harrison Ford just didn't care about this movie"
In response to Reply # 267


  

          


And mailed in his performance



----------------------------



O_E: "Acts like an asshole and posts with imperial disdain"




"I ORBITs the solar system, listenin..."

(C)Keith Murray, "

  

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theprofessional
Charter member
8761 posts
Tue Dec-29-15 02:45 AM

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311. "i bet m.night would've gotten a good performance out of him"
In response to Reply # 277


  

          

"i smack clowns with nouns, punch herbs with verbs..."

  

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Orbit_Established
Member since Oct 27th 2002
52934 posts
Thu Dec-31-15 11:11 PM

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333. "Couldn't have done any worse than TFA"
In response to Reply # 311


  

          


So yeah


----------------------------



O_E: "Acts like an asshole and posts with imperial disdain"




"I ORBITs the solar system, listenin..."

(C)Keith Murray, "

  

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Tiger Woods
Member since Feb 15th 2004
18386 posts
Wed Dec-23-15 11:10 PM

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255. "Han admits that he devolved into his old bad habits after Ben split"
In response to Reply # 252


  

          

As if to say "I was a piece of shit before fatherhood-I was happy until my son basically died-I'm a piece of shit after fatherhood."

  

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Orbit_Established
Member since Oct 27th 2002
52934 posts
Sun Dec-27-15 08:13 PM

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284. "Nah, Harrison Ford devolved into a bad actor"
In response to Reply # 255


  

          

>As if to say "I was a piece of shit before fatherhood-I was
>happy until my son basically died-I'm a piece of shit after
>fatherhood."

Because he didn't care about this dumb movie


----------------------------



O_E: "Acts like an asshole and posts with imperial disdain"




"I ORBITs the solar system, listenin..."

(C)Keith Murray, "

  

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theprofessional
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Tue Dec-29-15 02:46 AM

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312. "something something m.night"
In response to Reply # 284


  

          

"i smack clowns with nouns, punch herbs with verbs..."

  

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theprofessional
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Wed Dec-23-15 10:18 PM

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250. "let me explain some stuff for you slowpokes"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

on the one hand, i have no inside information about episode VIII. on the other hand, i'm right about all this, so if you'd like to continue arguing over dumb theories and complaining about nonsense for the next two years, read no further 'cause this is gonna spoil some stuff for you.

- rey is luke's daughter. there's no question about this. the clues were sprinkled throughout the movie: 1) when she's chilling in the desert and puts on the fighter pilot helmet for fun. it's a rebel alliance helmet, very possibly the exact same one luke wore in IV. 2) luke's lightsaber is calling to her. she's a skywalker. 3) for you morons complaining that R2 woke up at a really convenient time, think about what happened in that scene. who walked into the room for the first time? yep, rey. JJ isn't an idiot. his explanation that R2 just took a while to boot up or whatever is obviously a lie to protect the reveal in VIII that luke programmed R2 to run in low power mode until rey arrived. you could say that R2 was... awakened.

- speaking of awakening, again, guys, stop being dumb. those of you complaining that finn and rey defeated kylo ren too easily didn't watch the movie. first of all, finn-- who was a stormtrooper trained in combat-- held his own for about two minutes before nearly being killed. rey, on the other hand, eventually put ren on his back. how? she's just a random force-sensitive girl from jakku who's never been trained, right? wrong. the first scene that finn sees her, she gets in a fight with two or three grown men. before he can even get to her to help, she's used her staff or whatever it was to put both/all of them down. she's not just a random girl from jakku, guys. she's been trained. her vision in maz's basement may very well have not been a vision at all, but suppressed memories. someone took her to jakku, force-wiped her memory and left her. that someone is likely luke and he probably did it to protect her from ren and his knights, but we won't get the full story till VIII. fine, but i'm right about this.

- again, the movie is titled "the force awakens." things that are awakened have to first be put to sleep. if rey was only learning about the force for the first time in this movie, it would be titled "the force discovered," but it's not. the force is with rey. she's been trained. R2 in sleep mode throughout the movie is a parallel for rey in sleep mode. my favorite scene in the movie is the interrogation between ren and rey. he tries to force-pull thoughts out of her mind, but what he doesn't realize is that he's opening a door that swings both ways. suddenly the things rey is capable of start coming back to her, and she starts force-reading him. suddenly she knows who darth vader is and what the significance of that is. a random girl from jakku. come on, guys.

anyway, listen, if you guys don't like the movie, fine. but don't not like it because you're too dumb to figure out what's going on. the fact is that with the number of things JJ had to accomplish with this movie and with a $4 billion disney property riding on it, the degree of difficulty was off the charts. TFA-- flaws and all-- is not just a better movie than anyone could have possibly hoped for, it has a very legitimate case for being the best star wars movie ever. i'll need to see it a few more times before i crown anybody, but i care more about where this next star wars movie and these new star wars characters are going more than i ever have before, and so do you. we've officially moved out of blockbuster spectacle event territory and back into george's original vision of a serialized space opera where you can't wait to see the next chapter. JJ did it.

"i smack clowns with nouns, punch herbs with verbs..."

  

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Tiger Woods
Member since Feb 15th 2004
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Wed Dec-23-15 11:07 PM

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253. "glad you wrote this, because after seeing it again..."
In response to Reply # 250
Wed Dec-23-15 11:17 PM by Tiger Woods

  

          

...I came away with some assumptions that are in line with yours:

- Luke is Rey's dad and, even more, Kylo Ren definitely killed Rey's mom/Luke's lover

- Luke never met his mom, saw his aunt and uncle killed, didn't meet his sister until he was in his 20s, and knew his dad for five minutes; his family is a train wreck. He FINALLY had familiar stability with Rey and this other woman until it was taken from him by Kylo Ren (at the urging of Snoke) To seek vengeance would've meant giving in to the Dark Side, so instead Luke dropped Rey in a desert and went into solitude - a less than ideal solution at least intended to keep his daughter safe and prevent him from becoming bloodthirsty.

- this will also set up Rey's own temptation...sure she's excited at the notion of being a Jedi now, but will she resist a violent urge if she finds out Kylo Ren killed her mother she never met? Rey could just as soon be tempted by the Dark Side too. Much like it became apparent that Palpatine used Vader as bait to recruit Luke, Snoke could be using Kylo Ren as bait to recruit Rey...

She's a Skywalker. It makes too much sense for her NOT to be.

  

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theprofessional
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Wed Dec-23-15 11:16 PM

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256. "exactly. all of this. thank you."
In response to Reply # 253


  

          

and if that's not enough, just consider the simple fact that she's the lead of the movie. there's no way the lead of the new trilogy isn't going to be a direct descendant of anakin(PT)/luke skywalker(OT).

"i smack clowns with nouns, punch herbs with verbs..."

  

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jorge123
Member since Jun 02nd 2012
376 posts
Thu Dec-24-15 12:10 AM

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258. "I'm curious why anyone should care that Luke is Rey's father"
In response to Reply # 256


          

Like...ok? Are they going to do the whole, "You abandoned me! I'm mad at you!" thing for the next movie? That's pretty boring. The reveal in Empire Strikes Back was interesting because you knew that for Luke to beat the Empire, he would have to defeat Vader. Yet at the same time, the audience knows that Luke is curious and prideful about how his father was a good guy and a Jedi. So which side is going to win out? The problem with Luke/Rey is that they're on the same team, so I don't really give a shit. And it's kind of sad that Star Wars has devolved into, "OMG...I TOTES think that she is his daughter!" Why would this be an interesting revelation?

  

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Tiger Woods
Member since Feb 15th 2004
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Thu Dec-24-15 08:18 AM

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262. "I don't know, maybe I'm not that hard to please..."
In response to Reply # 258


  

          

But I think it could be really interesting if Kylo Ren is the one to tell Rey that Luke is her dad and that Ren killed her mother. Then she's faced with wanting to kill Ren and being let down by Luke

  

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theprofessional
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Thu Dec-24-15 10:03 PM

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268. "i doubt it'll be a reveal, more like a plot point"
In response to Reply # 258


  

          

i don't think another "i am your father" moment will ever work again for star wars, simply because it's too well known for it. i think it's more like just a plot point that they saved for VIII, partially because we don't need to know everything in this movie to enjoy it (think of how in IV there was no hint that these main characters-- luke, leia, vader-- might even have a connection) and partially just to give these characters somewhere to go for the next chapter. rey being a skywalker won't be a surprise because by then, after we've all seen it 120 times on blu-ray, we'll have figured it out. it'll be more like the kylo ren reveal, just something that's said through the course of events, and now where are we gonna go with it.

it matters that rey is luke's daughter because people are getting mad at TFA, thinking it's "the force discovered," when it is indeed-- as the title suggests-- the force being awakened in her. she's already strong with the force, she's already been trained enough to take down ren, and based on her lineage she has a path to becoming the most powerful jedi (or sith) in the galaxy. she just happens to have no idea about any of it when we meet her. she thinks she's a nobody orphan from planet nowhere (and despite all the clues, lots of people are walking out of TFA thinking the same). as a setup, it's kinda brilliant.

"i smack clowns with nouns, punch herbs with verbs..."

  

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blkprinceMD05
Member since Nov 29th 2004
41323 posts
Thu Dec-24-15 01:28 AM

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260. "none of this addresses that TFA was a ANH repeated "
In response to Reply # 250


  

          

Which was my and many others main issue. I actually agree with ur speculations. But all ur keyboard banging haughty insults don't excuse how unnecessarily similar TFA was to ANH

If this was gonna be a reboot they should have just called ig episode IV the next generation

prototype

stand ur ground, believe in urself,
believe in love, prepare urself for love, remove the negativity from ur life, and accept the love u kno u deserve

  

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theprofessional
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Thu Dec-24-15 10:28 PM

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269. "think that was pretty obviously deliberate"
In response to Reply # 260


  

          

two of the things they had to accomplish here was getting back the old fans who had been burned by the prequels and bringing in a generation of new fans who had little reference to what makes star wars star wars. they did it by gathering us around the one thing we could all agree on: the OT.

so, yes, TFA is ANH 2015 (with elements of ESB sprinkled in). JJ said they were gonna go backwards to move forward. now that we've had a movie that feels every bit like star wars and characters that we connect with as much as the originals... now that we're all back on board, we can move forward with new stories that will hopefully reinvent and push the boundaries of what "feels like star wars."

i saw TFA on monday afternoon and in the lobby overheard a little girl-- maybe six or seven years old-- bragging that she had already seen it three times. this movie was made just as much for her as it was for me, maybe more so. star wars now belongs to her as much as it ever did for me. i got my "nobody kid from the middle of nowhere saves the galaxy" story, now she has hers. i got my kenobi killed by vader moment, now she has hers. i got my trench run on the death star, now she has hers. i'm not mad about it.

"i smack clowns with nouns, punch herbs with verbs..."

  

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blkprinceMD05
Member since Nov 29th 2004
41323 posts
Sun Dec-27-15 08:57 PM

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287. "I stopped reading after ur first paragraph. There were plenty of "
In response to Reply # 269


  

          

Ways to bring the old fans back in ( who were gonna show up and watch all three of the sequel trilogy films regardless) and introduce the new characters without doing a point for point redo of ANH. A new plot shouldn't have been that hard to come up with

Also episodes 4-6 are not loss footage that no one has access too. But even if u hadn't made the effort to see them beforehand, the filmmakers could have still told another story

So in conclusion u sound fucking ridiculous

prototype

stand ur ground, believe in urself,
believe in love, prepare urself for love, remove the negativity from ur life, and accept the love u kno u deserve

  

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theprofessional
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Tue Dec-29-15 02:33 AM

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309. "the filmmakers did tell a different story"
In response to Reply # 287


  

          

you missed the story because your eyes were filled with tears. point me to the places in ANH where:

- the entire impetus of the movie is the search for a lost jedi

- a bad guy defects and helps out the good guys

- the main villain is fleshed out in any way whatsoever besides just being a scary guy in a dark suit

- the hero is suffering from some sort of amnesia which gradually fades thanks to a vision from a lightsaber and an interrogation by the villain

- the film ends on a melancholy cliffhanger instead of a triumphant medal ceremony

- or literally the hundred other things in TFA that we didn't see in ANH

yes, the two movies have similarities. yes, there are similar overarching themes (group of nobodies work together to save the galaxy). yes, starkiller base is a clear and direct homage to the death star, and yes it gets blown up too, but in an attack that just so happens to be background noise of the main battle taking place between finn, rey, and ren-- a battle for which there is no parallel in ANH. just like there's no parallel in ANH for the vast majority of stuff that happens in TFA, including the entire impetus of the movie: find luke skywalker.

how about this? next time you watch it, wipe the tears from your eyes so you don't miss the movie they made.

"i smack clowns with nouns, punch herbs with verbs..."

  

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Orbit_Established
Member since Oct 27th 2002
52934 posts
Mon Dec-28-15 06:25 AM

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292. "LMAO @ "bringing back the old fans" "
In response to Reply # 269


  

          


The "old fans" would have been just fine with a good,
interesting, original, well-written story

Just like the new fans would have been

They didn't deliver that

They delivered a goofball tiresome retread


----------------------------



O_E: "Acts like an asshole and posts with imperial disdain"




"I ORBITs the solar system, listenin..."

(C)Keith Murray, "

  

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theprofessional
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Tue Dec-29-15 02:02 AM

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308. "what would m.night do?"
In response to Reply # 292


  

          

maybe JJ should've cast jaden smith as jar jar's nephew.

"i smack clowns with nouns, punch herbs with verbs..."

  

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Paps_Smear
Member since Feb 02nd 2009
4254 posts
Thu Dec-24-15 09:58 AM

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264. "Glad you wrote this"
In response to Reply # 250


  

          

Was wondering why so many people missed this or wanted it spelled out to them so quickly on the first movie of the new trilogy. It's a lot that have to set up and a lot that will be explained in the upcoming films. Seems like folks wanted everything spoon fed to them from the very beginning. We didn't learn everything in ANH either.

As far as people thinking ANH and TFA are the same film. It's kinda hard to set up a trilogy without the obvious showing us the characters and having them all meet up and set out to complete a goal. Hell, look at Fellowship and the first Hobit movie. Both trilogy's and both similar movies from the start.

Anyway, good explanation. It was a damn fine Star Wars movie.

=================
Official Okay-Super Villain™

I only play the games that I win at -
Gamertag: Innovator
PSN: DurtyGambino
Steam: Durty Gambino
Twitch.tv/durtygambino

  

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JtothaI
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Fri Dec-25-15 02:53 AM

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270. "RE: let me explain some stuff for you slowpokes"
In response to Reply # 250


  

          

>someone took her to jakku, force-wiped her memory
>and left her.

I agree with all your comments, I took away pretty much everything you did. But when did "force wiping" somoenes memory become a thing? We have never seen that before. My son sad the same thing but I don't think its a thing?

  

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BrooklynWHAT
Member since Jun 15th 2007
85066 posts
Sun Dec-27-15 07:10 PM

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281. "lol the force can be/do anything they need to facilitate the plot."
In response to Reply # 270


  

          

<--- Big Baller World Order

  

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Cold Truth
Member since Jan 28th 2004
44838 posts
Sun Dec-27-15 07:31 PM

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282. "That's a copout though. "
In response to Reply # 281


  

          

I can see if you take issue with a specific use of the force as a lazy way to explain things, but any time we're dealing with something mystical or extraordinary it lends itself to considerable creative license.

The execution of this may not hold up in every instance but it's not really fair to reduce the force to catch all deus ex status.

  

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theprofessional
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Tue Dec-29-15 02:41 AM

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310. "the force can have a strong influence on the weak-minded"
In response to Reply # 270


  

          

we've seen it used to read thoughts, pull memories, influence behavior, control actions. not a big leap from there to wiping someone's memory, especially a child.

"i smack clowns with nouns, punch herbs with verbs..."

  

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Cold Truth
Member since Jan 28th 2004
44838 posts
Sat Dec-26-15 01:44 PM

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275. "lol, this guy. NO SHIT about Rey, first of all. "
In response to Reply # 250


  

          

>- speaking of awakening, again, guys, stop being dumb. those
>of you complaining that finn and rey defeated kylo ren too
>easily didn't watch the movie. first of all, finn-- who was a
>stormtrooper trained in combat--

He said he went one ONE mission. He said the mission he went on was his first. He didn't do shit. He's obviously not that battle hardened. His job? Sanitation.

And, as I fucking said prior to your seething, condescending geek rant, I may look at things differently after seeing 8 and 9.


held his own for about two
>minutes before nearly being killed.

Yeah. We saw. Kylo should have murked him with ease, injury or no injury.


>- again, the movie is titled "the force awakens." things that
>are awakened have to first be put to sleep. if rey was only
>learning about the force for the first time in this movie, it
>would be titled "the force discovered," but it's not. the
>force is with rey. she's been trained. R2 in sleep mode
>throughout the movie is a parallel for rey in sleep mode. my
>favorite scene in the movie is the interrogation between ren
>and rey. he tries to force-pull thoughts out of her mind, but
>what he doesn't realize is that he's opening a door that
>swings both ways. suddenly the things rey is capable of start
>coming back to her, and she starts force-reading him. suddenly
>she knows who darth vader is and what the significance of that
>is. a random girl from jakku. come on, guys.

Yes, EVERYONE THINKS SHE'S JUST SOME RANDOM GIRL WITH NO CONNECTION TO ANYONE IMPORTANT IN THIS UNIVERSE.

Yeah. Totally. Except... wait.. nobody is puzzled about her. We all know she's someone significant. Kylo is weak. I don't care what was awakened in her, he's BEEN woke, their fight should have been much more of a struggle even with her awakening whether or not he was a full fledged Sith at that point. We can debate the details of that, sure, but you can stop with the condescending bullshit because there IS a discussion there.

It's hilarious thougb, it's like you're totally unaware that your condescending nonsense isn't hitting anyone because nobody fits this bill. You're ranting and raving and yet nobody thinks she's just some random girl. Have fun "proving" you're "right" about obvious shit most people think is the case anyways.

You're not special. A little too attached to Star Wars, perhaps, particularly after reading that last paragraph, but not special.

  

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Orbit_Established
Member since Oct 27th 2002
52934 posts
Sat Dec-26-15 07:10 PM

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276. "That is perhaps the corniest review I've ever read."
In response to Reply # 250


  

          


It's a nostalgia cash grab movie decided to tickle
nerds into writing dumbass reviews like that to justify
the basic lack of a decent storyline.

The movie is shitty. But it's fun.

So let it be that.

But we don't need all of that dumb shit. So stop.


----------------------------



O_E: "Acts like an asshole and posts with imperial disdain"




"I ORBITs the solar system, listenin..."

(C)Keith Murray, "

  

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theprofessional
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Tue Dec-29-15 01:49 AM

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306. "given that your ideal sci-fi adventure is directed by m.night"
In response to Reply # 276


  

          

it's safe to say literally no one here cares what you think about star wars. maybe pop in your after earth dvd and eat a snickers.

"i smack clowns with nouns, punch herbs with verbs..."

  

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Stadiq
Member since Dec 21st 2005
4874 posts
Sun Dec-27-15 08:40 PM

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285. "umm, sarcasm? I can't tell if you are joking"
In response to Reply # 250
Sun Dec-27-15 08:41 PM by Stadiq

          

Literally everything you said is painfully obvious. And very little of it is being "complained" about.

It wasn't a very good movie. That's the complaint. Well, not even a complaint just a fact.

Fun? Sure. Cool new cast? Yes- talented, too.


But the film was booty cheeks.

The original characters were turned into deadbeats, losers, and cowards so the "movie could go back"

The movie is filled with magic, conveniences, astonishing luck, and new technology that will have to be ignored in the new films.

R2 magically wakes up...Al Pacino 2.0 is really alive, here is a throw away line to explain how/why....etc.

JJ Abrams is not a creative guy.

He is a show runner, a Brand Manager.

Or...He seems like that dude who manages a call center and makes it fun. He kind of gets his employees to forget they are working such a sh!tty job.

He made a fun ride. A theme park addition.

But it simply isn't a good movie.

I'm not sure how a rant explaining things to "slow pokes" that are obvious in the film is a defense of this trash.

  

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theprofessional
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Tue Dec-29-15 01:58 AM

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307. "and you might be the slowest of pokes"
In response to Reply # 285


  

          

everything i said is painfully obvious...

yet you're still wondering about stuff like how R2 "magically" wakes up. try a different franchise. star wars ain't your speed.

"i smack clowns with nouns, punch herbs with verbs..."

  

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Stadiq
Member since Dec 21st 2005
4874 posts
Tue Dec-29-15 12:01 PM

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317. "nah, it just wasn't good"
In response to Reply # 307


          


and nerds in denial are copping pleas. Ya'll set the bar a lot lower for the new one because JJ seems nice.

Cast is dope though.

  

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Orbit_Established
Member since Oct 27th 2002
52934 posts
Tue Dec-29-15 06:24 PM

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328. "Watching u try 2 squeeze meaning out of this shitty movie is LOL"
In response to Reply # 307


  

          


It's just a shitty movie

Deal with it


----------------------------



O_E: "Acts like an asshole and posts with imperial disdain"




"I ORBITs the solar system, listenin..."

(C)Keith Murray, "

  

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go mack
Member since May 02nd 2008
4020 posts
Thu Dec-24-15 09:23 AM

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263. "Im okay with the movie not showing all this"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

https://www.yahoo.com/movies/star-wars-the-force-awakens-ultimate-faq-164511371.html

cuz that would be boring. If they want to supply a dictionary to explain shit for people who really care to know fine with me. Some of it might have been able to better explain in the movie but it also might have bogged it down.

  

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handle
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18948 posts
Thu Dec-24-15 07:54 PM

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266. "I've seen it twice - each time the projection has been wrong"
In response to Reply # 0


          

It's 2.35 Anamorphic with masking.

First time: Arclight in Hollywood (2.5 hour drive): The image was stretched too wide. As far as I could tell the upper/lower parts of the screen were shown properly but everything else was too wide. A square looked like a (non-square) rectangle.

Arclight has offered that if I call on a day I want to see it again the manager will let us in, but without a way to book in advance it's fucking iffy to try to get 3 other people back to LA and deal with the uncertainty of "what if the manager isn't there?"

Second Time: The Lot theatre in La Jolla, CA. Masking was off so its missing top 1-3% of the picture and bottom 1-3% of the picture. Closeups seems way too tight. BB8 rolling on the ground shows his head only - but the ball beneath.

Manager knew immediately it was wrong - says they CHOSE to display it that way - because people would complain "why isn't the picture filling up the left and right of the screen?" if shown properly.

The Lot gives me a pass to come back and see the movie again (or another movie) at my convenience. Not thrilled about their decisions making.

Really thinking of not going back to the theaters again - too unreliable.

Even pirated movies are presented correctly.

------------


Gone: My Discogs collection for The Roots:
http://www.discogs.com/user/tomhayes-roots/collection

  

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Hellyeah
Member since Jul 05th 2008
6507 posts
Fri Dec-25-15 06:04 AM

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271. "I ENJOYED THIS "A NEW HOPE" REMIX BY DJJJ ABRAMS"
In response to Reply # 0


          

8/10

oh and beautiful closing shot.

  

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JFrost1117
Member since Aug 12th 2005
23880 posts
Sun Dec-27-15 04:46 AM

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278. "Featuring John Boyegalectronica"
In response to Reply # 271


  

          

____________
Twitter & IG: @rulerofmyself
SC: rulerofmyself17

Yes! She's on the drugs. (c) BoHagon

  

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Case_One
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54687 posts
Sun Dec-27-15 02:13 PM

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279. "What about all the gaping PLOT HOLES in this Movie? "
In response to Reply # 0


          

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/seth-abramson/40-unforgivable-plot-holes-in-star-wars-the-force-awakens_b_8850324.html

Warning: major spoilers for Star Wars: The Force Awakens ahead.

I loved the film. Seriously, I did. And yet it also has more plot holes than any film I've ever seen, which makes the reviews it's getting pretty irksome. Why can't we just admit that BB-8 is adorable, Finn is hilarious, Rey is badass, seeing Han and Chewie again was awesome, the special effects were tremendous, Poe is Soloesque, Kylo Ren is intriguing, and this movie makes absolutely no sense whatsoever?

Below are 40 plot holes in The Force Awakens. A few are trifling, but most are pretty damning. All of them were entirely unnecessary -- given the amount of time put into this film, the number of people who worked on it, and the amount of money everyone involved in it knew it stood to make -- and in this respect can be deemed unforgivable.

1. To blow up the 120-km "Death Star" in Star Wars, the rebels needed detailed plans for the base and a full-scale invasion force -- as well as the supernatural targeting skills of the most powerful Force-user in the galaxy. To destroy the exponentially larger and better-protected "Starkiller Base" in The Force Awakens, all that was needed was a janitor with no special skills, a few run-of-the-mill handheld explosives, a couple not very difficult X-wing blaster strikes, and some moxie. It also helped that the Millennium Falcon was able to "fly low."

2. The wily Han Solo loses track of his most prized possession, the Millennium Falcon, for more than a dozen years. He has no idea where it is -- in the entire Galaxy. When you lose something in your house, that's bad; when you lose something on your planet, you kiss it goodbye but pray for a miracle; when you lose something in the entire Galaxy, you just get on with your life. And yet, less than a minute after Rey begins piloting the Millennium Falcon, Han looks out the window of his freighter and says, "Oh, there it is."

3. Kylo Ren, a powerful Force-user, fights a light saber duel with an ex-janitor who has never held a light saber and yet (a) never uses the Force on his opponent, though doing so would have ended the duel immediately, and (b) barely wins the fight, suggesting that he is simultaneously one of the least strategic wielders of the Force the Dark Side has ever seen and, despite his training, absolutely terrible with a light saber. None of this stops Kylo Ren from designing and building his own, completely impractical cross-barred lightsaber.

4. Rey becomes nearly as effective a Force-user in a few hours as Luke Skywalker did in a few years.

5. Just minutes before Starkiller Base explodes, Supreme Leader Snoke tells Hux to go get Kylo Ren and take him off the planet. Unfortunately, Ren had recently (unbeknownst to Hux) run into the woods like a lunatic, leaving no information about his whereabouts. It's no problem, though, because Hux apparently has special Kylo Ren GPS and (one assumes) goes right to the spot in the middle of the forest where Ren is bleeding to death; otherwise, Ren would have died on the planet along with everybody else from the First Order.

6. The reason Ren was slowly bleeding to death -- instead of being dead by Rey's hand -- is that a massive a chasm had just miraculously opened up in the several feet between the two of them. Such bad timing for Rey! (Damn you, deus-ex-geology!)

7. Rey, who has never left her home planet since she was a child, can speak Wookie. Nobody can speak Wookie -- it's a running joke in the Star Wars universe. But Rey being able to speak Wookie surprises neither her, Han Solo, nor Chewbacca himself.

8. It's okay that Poe survived a Tie Fighter crash; after all, so did Finn. But has any film ever cared less about (a) giving the false impression a character has died, and then (b) having that character show up later with no one being surprised by it? Even Finn doesn't seem to care very much what the explanation is.

9. What is all this nonsense about the First Order only wanting to destroy the Republic because the Republic is supporting the Resistance? First of all, isn't the Resistance part of the Republic, not a separate operation? And if it is separate, why has the First Order only just now discovered the not-very-well-hidden fact that the Republic is supporting the Resistance? And if the Resistance is in fact a part of the Republic, why didn't Starkiller Base destroy the Republic's planets and moons much, much earlier? In other words, what is the status of the war between the Republic and the First Order at the beginning of The Force Awakens, such that this precise moment is when General Hux decides to simply press a button and destroy the Republic?

10. For that matter, why is it made to seem like the entire Republic is centered in just one star system? Let alone one whose planets and moons are all visible to one another with the naked eye? Isn't the Republic intergalactic? And why did the First Order choose to destroy all the planets and moons visible from Maz Kanata's home-world, but then initiate a conventional invasion of the latter planet? Why not just fire one more planet-killing beam and destroy Kanata's planet too? Because not doing that leads to a significant military defeat for the First Order that was totally avoidable. And another thing: if the Republic is in power, why is the Resistance the "Resistance"? What are they resisting? Isn't the First Order the "Resistance," as they're resisting the hegemony of the Republic? It's like someone on-set said "the Rebels need a new name," without realizing that the political situation in the Galaxy had totally changed since the events of the previous films.

11. Kylo Ren is the head of the Knights of Ren, but there are no other Knights of Ren in the movie.

12. Captain Phasma is supposed to be a big-deal character in The Force Awakens, if the merchandising and casting are any indication, and yet (a) how bad of a commanding officer do you have to be, how thoroughly inept in military tactics and strategy, to command the worst-trained fighting force in the Galaxy (the Stormtroopers hit even less with their blasters in The Force Awakens than in any preceding Star Wars film); (b) she's only in three scenes, in one of which she relays an order from Kylo Ren to initiate a massacre of innocents (hardcore!) and in another of which she immediately surrenders to Han, Rey, and Finn as soon as they encounter her and then does exactly everything they ask of her (pathetic!), making her character incomprehensible; and (c) in her third scene she effectively reveals that Finn's character is incomprehensible, as she notes that he has in fact been trained since birth to obey all orders, and has never in his life disobeyed even a single order until the day he decides to act like he's never been trained, indoctrinated, or dehumanized at all.

13. Really? Was there no previous order Finn had ever refused to execute? Was the slaughter on Jakku actually the first naughty thing the First Order had ever required of him?

14. Finn is an ex-janitor who goes AWOL from a Stormtrooper force numbering in the tens of thousands. Yet he is absolutely convinced, despite being someone of no importance whatsoever to the First Order, that he will be chased across the galaxy for having defected. Apparently, there's a premium on janitors in this quadrant of the Galaxy. Sure, Finn killed some people during his escape, but doesn't the First Order emphasize with every tactical decision it makes that it considers its soldiers thoroughly expendable, and don't they quite obviously have much bigger fish to fry during the events of The Force Awakens than to worry about Finn? Why wouldn't this be obvious to him?

15. Let's be clear: Han's son joins the First Order, and Luke's attempts to train new Jedis goes horribly wrong, and both men respond to these setbacks by, well, abandoning the Resistance to be utterly slaughtered by the First Order. Luke chills on an island, and Han on a smuggler's freighter, while untold thousands or millions of innocents are killed by the Order. Can we even comprehend how pissed Leia would be at both of them, and how cowardly Leia (at least the Leia we see in the first three films) would consider them both? And yet she seems only mildly peeved at Luke, and, despite Han implying otherwise, is almost entirely happy to see him when he turns up at the Resistance stronghold.

16. By the end of the movie, the impression is left that every single First Order soldier is dead besides Supreme Leader Snoke, General Hux, and Kylo Ren. That probably won't turn out to be the case, but the fact that we're given this impression makes the climactic discovery of Luke on an isolated island entirely irrelevant. After all, what need does the Resistance have of Luke now? Why should anyone care, at this point, if he's found? Because there are two bad dudes left in the entire Galaxy, one of whom only shows up anywhere as a hologram? And okay, let's say, for the sake of argument, that there are millions more First Order soldiers elsewhere in the Galaxy; isn't it strange that the film gives absolutely no indication whatsoever that this is the case?

17. Why does General Hux need to gather all of his troops just to tell them he's about to press a button and destroy the entire Republic? Can't he do that without a cattle-call of his entire army? Because it really ends badly for him, putting his entire army on the very planet he's about to make Resistance Target #1. No chance anybody saw that coming?

18. How pissy is it of Luke to (a) abandon the Resistance, and then (b) leave an obnoxiously coy trail of bread-crumbs to sort of (but not really) help people find him (at some unspecified time)? Why did he leave multiple maps out there in the ether, anyway, given that him having done so allows the First Order to find one of them?

19. Why wasn't the Resistance able to access R2D2's data archives at any point over the course of the many years Luke was gone? Why did they, instead, simply prop him up in a corner, when they had to know that he knew Luke's whereabouts -- as he always has in the past?

20. When the Resistance finally figures out where Luke is, after looking for him for many years, why do they send only Chewbacca and a random girl who Leia just met to collect him?

21. Kylo Ren has such a Force-enabled sense of where his father is in the Galaxy that when his father lands on Starkiller Base, Ren immediately exclaims to himself, "Solo!" Yet a few minutes later, when Ren is just twenty feet from Solo, he can't detect him -- and actually starts searching for him in the wrong direction.

22. How lame is Han's attempt to convert his son? Han knows Ren (Ben) has just participated in the genocide of literally billions of people on multiple planets and moons, and he basically says to him, "Hey, this just isn't you, buddy..." Of course his son kills him! What else was going to happen?

23. Why do Rey and Finn just stand by watching as Ren murders Han? They didn't know Ren was Han's son, so the drama on the catwalk must have looked absolutely bizarre to them. Why didn't they think to fire even a single blaster shot down at Ren (given that he was just standing there on the catwalk) until -- from their vantage-point, with the knowledge they had at the time, entirely predictably -- Ren killed Han?

24. Rey says that the Millennium Falcon is "garbage" and hasn't been flown in many, many years. Indeed, it's such junk, in her view, that she won't even board it when she's about to be ripped to pieces by twenty Tie Fighters. Then she gets on board and it basically flies perfectly. So much so that it's not at all clear why no one has been flying it, let alone why its owner (Unkar Plutt) hasn't tried to sell it at any point over the past dozen years -- despite the fact that Plutt appears to live in a hovel.

25. Why does Plutt offer Rey 250 times her usual pay for BB-8 and then, when she says "no," simply tell some of his heavies to just steal it? If Plutt is enough of a baddie to order it stolen at all, why not just steal it from the outset instead of first offering some random urchin the biggest financial windfall she's ever seen?

26. Maz Kanata is a friend to the Resistance. So why is she hiding Luke's light saber from them? Wouldn't she give them anything she could to help them find Luke, and doesn't it in fact turn out (as anyone could have supposed) that Luke's light saber is indeed helpful in tracking the last Jedi down?

27. How did Kylo Ren manage to get Darth Vader's mask into his little fetish den? This is only the most significant piece of memorabilia in the entire Galaxy. Not a plot hole per se, but still odd. And yet a similar question could be asked of Rey: how did she get that X-wing pilot helmet, and why doesn't she sell it for food? And why does Teedo (a fellow scavenger on Jakku) just give Rey BB-8 after capturing the droid, given that as an experienced trader Teedo would already know that (as Rey quickly discovers) BB-8 is worth 100 times more than any random pile of junk either he or Rey could ever offer Plutt? Now that is a plot hole.

28. How does Finn find Rey's settlement, given that the film makes clear that all Finn can see, after his Tie Fighter crashes, is endless dunes in every direction?

29. Who trained Rey to fight with a staff as effectively as she does, given that (a) she is an orphan with no friends or family, and (b) she has never been in a battle, but is, rather, merely a scrap-metal scavenger?

30. If Finn is such a good guy that he would try to save Rey the moment he saw she was in distress, doesn't it further call into question just how in the world the order to kill civilians on Jakku was the first time he'd ever had qualms about doing something the First Order had asked him to do?

31. Given that all Poe knows about Finn is that he's a First Order defector, why does he seem happy to see Finn just seconds after (and perhaps as) BB-8 tells him Finn is alive? There's no real reason for Poe to trust Finn -- or care about his well-being -- at all. Rather, he would assume, as anyone would, that whatever Finn did or did not do on Jakku, he surely had committed other atrocities for the First Order (and killed many a Resistance fighter) before then.

32. Kylo Ren takes his mask off pretty readily, and in pretty mixed company, for someone determined to wear super uncomfortable headgear perpetually.

33. Why does Kylo Ren assign just a single Stormtrooper to guard Rey, the most valuable prisoner in the history of the First Order?

34. How do the Rathtars on Han's freighter get loose? If he's just keeping them loose in the hanger, why don't they kill him when he's walking through the freighter toward the Millennium Falcon, or at any other time? And if he's got them chained up, how do they escape?

35. Why do the Rathtars immediately kill every human they encounter -- except Finn, who is randomly dragged off just long enough to be rescued?

36. Why are all Stormtroopers human (or humanoid)? If by the time of the First Order any clones being raised to be Stormtroopers are no longer clones of Jango Fett, why aren't there now Stormtroopers of every species as well as every (human) race? Why aren't there flying Stormtroopers from the same species as, say, Watto (from The Phantom Menace)?

37. If basically everyone in the Galaxy knows the Force is not a myth -- for instance, every single Stormtrooper in the First Order, who has seen Kylo Ren use it or heard tell of him using it; every single person in the Resistance, who knows the Resistance is looking for Luke Skywalker; every single person in the Republic, which was first established in part by the heroism of the Jedis -- how is the existence of the Force a total shock to Rey? Jakku is sheltered, but as we know from the film (cf. Lor San Tekka) there are many people on Jakku who either have seen the Force first-hand or heard first-hand accounts of it from visitors to the planet.

38. Is Supreme Leader Snoke actually a giant? Because if not, wouldn't him using holographic technology to make himself appear huge be a pathetic affection signaling deep-seeded insecurities? Even the Emperor never did that; he just appeared normal-sized or tiny. And if Snoke is a giant, how come we've never seen a humanoid that size in Star Wars before?

39. Why would the First Order spend untold quadrillions of to build the Starkiller Base, when a similar concept and design plan had twice before been destroyed with minimal difficulty by the rebels? And doesn't the recurrence of this tactical error for the third time in the (relatively) brief history of the Empire/First Order suggest that everyone in the First Order who was involved in the construction of Starkiller Base, at every level of management and authority, should be instantly shot in the head? (Of course, it's too late for that by the end of the film, but still.) How positively brain-dead is Snoke to have learned literally nothing from history? And for those who say that clearly a solar-powered Death Star is way better than a non-solar-powered Death Star, well, clearly not!

40. Is there any other film franchise in the history of cinema that would be permitted, by its fans and by critics, to recycle so many plot points? Luke destroys a Death Star; Lando destroys a bigger Death Star; Poe destroys the biggest Death Star. Anakin kills (the Jedi's) Younglings; Kylo Ren kills (Luke's) Younglings. Leia, Luke, Han, and Chewie end up in a trash compactor; Captain Phasma ends up in a trash compacter. Poe and Finn steal a ship they're not supposed to steal from a hanger; a young Anakin steals a ship he's not supposed to steal from a hanger. Luke watches Obi-Wan die; Rey watches Han Solo die. The Emperor and Snoke both appear (at first) exclusively via holograms. The Millennium Falcon negotiates tight spaces at top speeds in every film. There's a den of iniquity on Tatooine, and a visually identical one on Takodana (Maz Kanata's home). Rey climbs dangerously on the interior of a Death Star, as did Luke. Han gets shown up (as to military and technical smarts) first by Leia, then many years later by Rey. Obi-Wan disappears where no one can find him but Luke, then Luke disappears where no one can find him but Rey. Kylo Ren and Darth Vader use the Force for an interrogation. The First Order's General Hux is the same Nazi-with-a-British-accent as every Empire officer or petty official before him. Rey falls in love (we think) with a young scamp, as did Padme. The Resistance headquarters seems to be the same movie set as the Rebel headquarters from decades earlier. Poe is a crack shot, like Luke. BB-8 is the new R2D2. Kylo Ren is related to Han, just as Darth Vader was related to Luke.




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Cold Truth
Member since Jan 28th 2004
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Sun Dec-27-15 07:48 PM

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283. "Seems you and the author are unclear on the concept of plot holes. "
In response to Reply # 279


  

          

I initially began going point for point with this but most of it is a mess.

This guy actually listed Snoke's possible size as a plothole, and the fact that it rehashed a lot of other SW events as a plothole.

Some of these things certainly stretch the ability to suspend disbelief, but some of those things may ultimately play out differently after eps 8 and 9.

There may be some actual plot holes and valid criticism in there but he doesn't seem to know what a plot hole is.

  

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Case_One
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288. "Oh here we go. SMH"
In response to Reply # 283


          


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Cold Truth
Member since Jan 28th 2004
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Mon Dec-28-15 01:47 AM

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290. "lol you post some half assed critique and have the nerve to say that?"
In response to Reply # 288


  

          

You post up some bloated, masturbatory, poorly thought out drek like that and have the audacity to sigh like that when someone throws an ounce of critical thought on it?

lol

  

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Case_One
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Mon Dec-28-15 09:13 AM

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295. "We all know what Plot holes are. Thank you and don't be mad."
In response to Reply # 290


          

In fiction, a plot hole or plothole is a logical inconsistency within a story. Such inconsistencies include such things as illogical or impossible events, and statements or events that contradict earlier events in the storyline.



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Cold Truth
Member since Jan 28th 2004
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Mon Dec-28-15 12:22 PM

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298. "LOL! Yet again, you offer no insight or perspective "
In response to Reply # 295


  

          

from your own brain and that’s telling.

First of all, I know the definition of a plot hole.

Second, you’re looking at that definition in a very rigid way and there’s a context to what does and does not constitute a plot hole starting with an objective view of the world you’re in. A true plot hole has to go against the rules set within the world you’re talking about.

So, to start with, pretty much everything about Star Wars as a whole is unbelievable. The force, lightsabers, all that shit.

Further, several things mentioned in that list are nothing more than questions the writer has.

A good example:

37. If basically everyone in the Galaxy knows the Force is not a myth -- for instance, every single Stormtrooper in the First Order, who has seen Kylo Ren use it or heard tell of him using it; every single person in the Resistance, who knows the Resistance is looking for Luke Skywalker; every single person in the Republic, which was first established in part by the heroism of the Jedis -- how is the existence of the Force a total shock to Rey? Jakku is sheltered, but as we know from the film (cf. Lor San Tekka) there are many people on Jakku who either have seen the Force first-hand or heard first-hand accounts of it from visitors to the planet.

A few things: how does he arrive at the conclusion that everyone in the galaxy knows the force is not a myth? That’s an assumption on his part and definitely NOT an assertion made in the film. In fact, THE OPPOSITE IS TRUE. Quite clearly, everyone DOES NOT know it’s real. So, this “plot hole” was based on an assumption made by the writer that was definitively NOT made in the film and yet he uses this factually baseless assumption as the basis for his criticism despite the film ACTUALLY showing us that not everyone does. He even explains part of this himself- Jakku is sheltered and to extrapolate further, Rey is very clearly more sheltered than the rest.

It’s like modern day religion; YOU, as a pastor, may claim to have witnessed the hand of god and heard his voice and seen miracles and all that but to those outside that particular circle, it’s just a bunch of stories. There’s absolutely NO reason this wouldn’t reasonably be the case in this film. The fact that this isn’t spelled out for you in crystal clear terms one way or another is NOT a plot hole.

It’s something that, at best, would be open for interpretation except that the film made it perfectly clear that Rey was unaware that any of this was real. She was clearly aware of the stories, but thought it to be a myth- much the way many believe the stories within the Bible to be a myth.

I mean, that’s just for starters. LOL@”don’t be mad” at your half assed cut & pasting, no critical thought having ass post.

  

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Case_One
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Mon Dec-28-15 06:51 PM

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302. "You are just mad that the Movie has issues. I still like it though."
In response to Reply # 298
Mon Dec-28-15 06:52 PM by Case_One

          

And YES playa, although entertianing there are plenty of PLOT HOLES in the movie. You're the only one that can't see'em.

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Cold Truth
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304. "Mad? I POINTED OUT ISSUES IN THE MOVIE. "
In response to Reply # 302
Mon Dec-28-15 07:49 PM by Cold Truth

  

          

In at least two posts in here. lol.

The simple truth is you're a basic ass dude with poor critical thinking skills who has no original thoughts of his own. Evidence? You run right to that "you just mad!" bullshit instead of forming an actual rebuttal to the information at hand.

You're basic and express your opinions via cut & paste of dumb shit other people wrote without actually reading it or, far worse, giving some thought to what you cosigned as your own opinion.

I'll bet money you're the simpleton on facebook that posts all the chain mail talking about Mark Zuckerberg is giving away his money to everyone who shares this post within the first three days on some "you never know!"

Or, more likely, the dude that posts a picture full of 1K bundles on that "share this to ten people and you will be blessed with wealth".

You're basic. Simple. Possibly dumb. But mad? Me? Over your low IQ cut and paste job regarding a movie I criticized myself? lol.

  

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Tiger Woods
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Mon Dec-28-15 01:04 PM

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300. "whew. Is it that serious?"
In response to Reply # 279


  

          

  

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Marauder21
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Tue Dec-29-15 10:54 AM

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314. "How is this a "plot hole?""
In response to Reply # 279
Tue Dec-29-15 10:56 AM by Marauder21

  

          

>38. Is Supreme Leader Snoke actually a giant? Because if not, wouldn't him using holographic technology to make himself appear huge be a pathetic affection signaling deep-seeded >insecurities? Even the Emperor never did that; he just appeared normal-sized or tiny. And if Snoke is a giant, how come we've never seen a humanoid that size in Star Wars before?

Maybe he is deeply insecure.
Maybe he's from a race of giants we haven't seen before.
Maybe both.

This isn't a plot hole, though.

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Cold Truth
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Tue Dec-29-15 11:11 AM

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316. "Half that list consists of things that aren't plot holes"
In response to Reply # 314


  

          

Of course, we're dealing with a person who forms his opinions from memes and chain letters.

  

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Case_One
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318. "LOL.. Half of the list.. LOL What about the other half (20 points)"
In response to Reply # 316


          


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Cold Truth
Member since Jan 28th 2004
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Tue Dec-29-15 12:33 PM

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319. "I was being nice in saying "half", Basic Bill."
In response to Reply # 318


  

          

Look, Cut & Copy Connie, your list was mostly trash.

I can go on and break down each of these non-plot hole, but you, Simple Sam, have shown you have zero desire to actually discuss any of this so why bother?

You don't even HAVE an opinion.
You don't actually HAVE a perspective.

Good, bad, right, wrong or indifferent, YOU HAVE NO ACTUAL CRITICAL THOUGHT TO OFFER.

Do you have a thought? An actual perspective? Can you articulate something that IS an actual plot hole and why it's such a burden on the film?

Are you even capable of that?

Cause right now you're Mega Meme Manny. Simple Sam. Basic Bill.

You're THAT guy. The one who likes and shares all the ".... a REAL man/woman/father/mother/etc is/does/will/won't (enter lame, basic ass phrase that sounds deep to an angsty 12 year old)" posts on social media.

Until you can demonstrate that you're not a vapid cut & paste meme robot, you'll get nothing but snark and ridicule on this subject from here on out but i'll be more than happy to have a perfectly reasonable disagreeable discussion on the matter if you can stop this YEAH, WHAT THIS OTHER GUY WROTE! bullshit.

  

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Marauder21
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Tue Dec-29-15 03:07 PM

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327. "How are things like this a "plot hole"?"
In response to Reply # 318


  

          

>32. Kylo Ren takes his mask off pretty readily, and in pretty mixed company, for someone determined to wear super uncomfortable headgear perpetually.

At most it's an inconsistency, or it's just a nitpick. Could even be an intentional character choice for a character who clearly isn't comfortable with who he thinks he's supposed to be. It has zero to do with the plot of the film.

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Case_One
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Wed Dec-30-15 06:09 PM

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331. "Why does he where the mask in the first place. "
In response to Reply # 327


          

It's never explained, it's implied. But there is a lack of linkage to the mask and his own identity, as well as his development within the Force and his personality. We just accept that he needs a mask, when in fact the mask is what he's trying to live up to.
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Tiger Woods
Member since Feb 15th 2004
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Thu Dec-31-15 11:21 AM

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332. "it's not that deep. He's a Vader dickrider obviously"
In response to Reply # 331


  

          

ya'll need some chill pills it's STAR WARS

  

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Cold Truth
Member since Jan 28th 2004
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Fri Jan-01-16 02:13 AM

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334. "Never mind. This is a waste of time. "
In response to Reply # 331
Fri Jan-01-16 02:16 AM by Cold Truth

  

          

We've already established that you clearly do not know what a plot hole is.

Hell the mask thing doesn't even qualify as a narrative inconsistency.

It's just a question you and this other dude are asking, but that question bares very little weight as it is and there's more than enough information present to extrapolate reasonable conclusions, so.... yeah.

  

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Beamer6178
Member since Jan 09th 2006
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Fri Jan-08-16 07:28 PM

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356. "What about the HOLES in the article? "
In response to Reply # 279
Fri Jan-08-16 07:28 PM by Beamer6178

  

          

here's a direct and fairly durable rebuttal to the article that you posted:

https://twitter.com/reverendmatty


>http://www.huffingtonpost.com/seth-abramson/40-unforgivable-plot-holes-in-star-wars-the-force-awakens_b_8850324.html
>

  

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justin_scott
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359. "alot of these are NOT PLOT HOLES"
In response to Reply # 279


          

.

************************************************************

  

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JtothaI
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386. "Devils Adcovate +"
In response to Reply # 279


  

          

Before I play devils advocate on a couple of these (and ignore many because they either aren't plot holes, I kinda agree or they are plain stupid), I had one more issue (not a plot hole!)...

Chewie showing up in the Falcon to scoop up Rey after her fight with Kylo. How the hell did he know where she was? You can kind of explain away that Kylo was able to "Sense" Rey and that's how he found her but that's another discussion....

On we go...

>1. To blow up the 120-km "Death Star" in Star Wars, the rebels
>needed detailed plans for the base and a full-scale invasion
>force -- as well as the supernatural targeting skills of the
>most powerful Force-user in the galaxy. To destroy the
>exponentially larger and better-protected "Starkiller Base" in
>The Force Awakens, all that was needed was a janitor with no
>special skills, a few run-of-the-mill handheld explosives, a
>couple not very difficult X-wing blaster strikes, and some
>moxie. It also helped that the Millennium Falcon was able to
>"fly low."

There is strong evidence in the comics that Poe could be "force sensitive."


>2. The wily Han Solo loses track of his most prized
>possession, the Millennium Falcon, for more than a dozen
>years. He has no idea where it is -- in the entire Galaxy.
>When you lose something in your house, that's bad; when you
>lose something on your planet, you kiss it goodbye but pray
>for a miracle; when you lose something in the entire Galaxy,
>you just get on with your life. And yet, less than a minute
>after Rey begins piloting the Millennium Falcon, Han looks out
>the window of his freighter and says, "Oh, there it is.

I've seen it 3 times, but I still don't recall that exact dialogue, but there was some mention by Han that he was tracking the Falcon.


>4. Rey becomes nearly as effective a Force-user in a few hours
>as Luke Skywalker did in a few years.

We do not know her training.



>7. Rey, who has never left her home planet since she was a
>child, can speak Wookie. Nobody can speak Wookie -- it's a
>running joke in the Star Wars universe. But Rey being able to
>speak Wookie surprises neither her, Han Solo, nor Chewbacca
>himself.

I don't recall her ever speaking wookie. I think Chewie only understood her. Also, there was a shit ton of various species on Jakku where shes had to fend for herself for years as far as we know so she could have learned to speak to many of them.



>9. In other words, what is
>the status of the war between the Republic and the First Order
>at the beginning of The Force Awakens, such that this precise
>moment is when General Hux decides to simply press a button
>and destroy the Republic?

I thought that Starkiller Base had just became operational. I think it would have happened regardless if anyof the events with Rey on Jakku and Finn had happened.


>10. >And why did
>the First Order choose to destroy all the planets and moons
>visible from Maz Kanata's home-world, but then initiate a
>conventional invasion of the latter planet? Why not just fire
>one more planet-killing beam and destroy Kanata's planet too?

Because they wanted the location of Skywalker. Can't do that if the planet is destroyed.


>14. Apparently, there's a premium on janitors
>in this quadrant of the Galaxy.

This was actually hilarious. I lol'd

>17. Why does General Hux need to gather all of his troops just
>to tell them he's about to press a button and destroy the
>entire Republic? Can't he do that without a cattle-call of his
>entire army? Because it really ends badly for him, putting his
>entire army on the very planet he's about to make Resistance
>Target #1. No chance anybody saw that coming?

Because that's what dictators do. Because he believed there would be no more resistance after this move. Because there wouldn't even be anyone alive to tell the story of what happened to the missing planets and moons.


>20. When the Resistance finally figures out where Luke is,
>after looking for him for many years, why do they send only
>Chewbacca and a random girl who Leia just met to collect him?

There's obviously more to this that isn't meant to be spoon fed to you. This is a trilogy. If this was a legitimate argument why didn't lucas just tell us in E4 that Vader was Lukes dad?!


>21. Kylo Ren has such a Force-enabled sense of where his
>father is in the Galaxy that when his father lands on
>Starkiller Base, Ren immediately exclaims to himself, "Solo!"
>Yet a few minutes later, when Ren is just twenty feet from
>Solo, he can't detect him -- and actually starts searching for
>him in the wrong direction.

Maybe he was luring him out there. Maybe he got wind of what happened in a similar situation with Luke and Vader?


>26. Maz Kanata is a friend to the Resistance. So why is she
>hiding Luke's light saber from them? Wouldn't she give them
>anything she could to help them find Luke, and doesn't it in
>fact turn out (as anyone could have supposed) that Luke's
>light saber is indeed helpful in tracking the last Jedi down?

Did she even know prior to Hans arrival that anyone was even looking for him?


>27. How did Kylo Ren manage to get Darth Vader's mask into his
>little fetish den? This is only the most significant piece of
>memorabilia in the entire Galaxy.

Again, not the time to tell that story. The nod did its job to entice everyone to beg for more info.That's what good movies do. Except that this isn't some one off movie that they are hoping gets a sequel made to answer your question. There is going to be at least 2 more, you'll get your answer.

>28. How does Finn find Rey's settlement, given that the film
>makes clear that all Finn can see, after his Tie Fighter
>crashes, is endless dunes in every direction?

The same way that Luke, Han and Chewie find Leia in 10 minutes on a space station the size of a moon that would take you years to traverse in a straight line regardless of corridors and evading troops.

>29. Who trained Rey to fight with a staff as effectively as
>she does, given that (a) she is an orphan with no friends or
>family, and (b) she has never been in a battle, but is,
>rather, merely a scrap-metal scavenger?

She's a fighter, she lives on a shitty planet where everyone is out to have whats yours. That and there are two more movies on the way, so there's that.


>33. Why does Kylo Ren assign just a single Stormtrooper to
>guard Rey, the most valuable prisoner in the history of the
>First Order?

Because it wasn't some random trooper, it was fucking James Bond!

>34. How do the Rathtars on Han's freighter get loose? If he's
>just keeping them loose in the hanger, why don't they kill him
>when he's walking through the freighter toward the Millennium
>Falcon, or at any other time? And if he's got them chained up,
>how do they escape?

You didn't see Rey fuck up and open the wrong door? I think you should watch the movie again.


>35. Why do the Rathtars immediately kill every human they
>encounter -- except Finn, who is randomly dragged off just
>long enough to be rescued?

Because they were full, they had just ate the better part of two gangs.

>36. Why are all Stormtroopers human (or humanoid)? If by the
>time of the First Order any clones being raised to be
>Stormtroopers are no longer clones of Jango Fett, why aren't
>there now Stormtroopers of every species as well as every
>(human) race? Why aren't there flying Stormtroopers from the
>same species as, say, Watto (from The Phantom Menace)?

Can you imagine a stormtrooper helmet on Hammerhead, Ree-Yees, a Gammorean or Greedo? The Empire has loot, but they aren't making custom helmets for a face with a hammer on it, three eyes, a pig head or a long snout.

  

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After_Words
Member since Aug 04th 2007
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Sun Dec-27-15 05:30 PM

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280. "Star Wars and morality"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

I loved TFA, but I'm hoping the new trilogy isn't so black and white (and to a degree, predictable). This article compares Star Wars and its universe to Game of Thrones and how GoT was able to blur the boundaries of morality. Lots of potential for that in Star Wars with the next two movies.

http://theweek.com/articles/595722/star-wars-should-give-power-dark-side

--------------------------------
"I'm sick of following my dreams, man. I'm just going to ask where they're going and hook up with 'em later." -- Mitch Hedberg

  

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blkprinceMD05
Member since Nov 29th 2004
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Sun Dec-27-15 08:52 PM

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286. "I saw it a second time and liked it way more. However my cousins "
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

Who I was with for my second viewing came out feeling the same way I did after my first time seeing it: it was a complete rehash of ANH. Also one of my cousins was really less forgiving becuz he had read all the books that are now not canon so he had short patience with the pic from the get go

My aunt and uncle felt the same way. It was way too on the nose. Kinda lazy with the creativity

But like I said I did enjoy it way more on the second viewing. It will probably be my last time seeing the film ever tho

prototype

stand ur ground, believe in urself,
believe in love, prepare urself for love, remove the negativity from ur life, and accept the love u kno u deserve

  

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Orbit_Established
Member since Oct 27th 2002
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Mon Dec-28-15 06:23 AM

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291. "Beat Jurrasic World's race to 1 billion by only one day? Meh"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          


Obviously we're talking about obscenely, ridiculous, absurd
amounts of money, but that it only beat JW by one day is a
bit surprising

I would have expected this to completely demolish Jurassic World,
which had very little of the hype RELATIVELY speaking

  

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phenompyrus
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Mon Dec-28-15 08:36 AM

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293. "I was surprised by that too, but I expect this to be around longer."
In response to Reply # 291


          

I thought I read that this hasn't even opening in China yet, which if true, may be enough to completely demolish Jurassic World when all is said and done.

I imagine it will also be in theaters longer too.

http://twitter.com/phenompyrus

Get Out the Room
http://getouttheroom.podomatic.com
http://itunes.apple.com/us/podcast/get-out-the-room/id525657893

  

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soulfunk
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294. "Yeah, it doesn't open in China until January 9. "
In response to Reply # 293


  

          

I have no idea why that is - Jurassic World opened in China the same weekend as in the US.

Combine that with the fact that JW opened in the summer when other big films were coming out while SW isn't gonna have the blockbuster competition in the coming weeks, and that will give it more staying power.

  

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go mack
Member since May 02nd 2008
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Mon Dec-28-15 11:39 AM

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296. "RE: Yeah, it doesn't open in China until January 9. "
In response to Reply # 294


  

          

I believe its gonna get more repeat viewings than JW did as well. I don't know any friends or anyone that saw JW two or 3 times in theaters. Im sure there had to be with as much money it made. I liked it okay for big dumb fun but was not anxious to see it again right after I saw it.

TFA I know many people who have seen it two or three times already. Some in this post who admit to not liking it have seen it twice already. lol This movie has a real chance at moving past Titanic and Avatar eventually.

  

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rdhull
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Mon Dec-28-15 11:51 AM

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297. "RE: Yeah, it doesn't open in China until January 9. "
In response to Reply # 296


  

          


>TFA I know many people who have seen it two or three times
>already. Some in this post who admit to not liking it have
>seen it twice already. lol

lol

  

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blkprinceMD05
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301. "lol for the recond someone surprised me and took me opening"
In response to Reply # 296


  

          

night, zero money out my pocket and i already had a ticket to see it with my cousins christmas day...if not for those circumstances i definitely would NOT have seen it twice...altho im glad i did

it was pretty wack upon first viewing. and a lot of ppl are finally being brave enuff to admit that

prototype

stand ur ground, believe in urself,
believe in love, prepare urself for love, remove the negativity from ur life, and accept the love u kno u deserve

  

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BigReg
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Mon Dec-28-15 01:03 PM

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299. "Its cause China apparently DGAF about Star Wars"
In response to Reply # 294


  

          

>I have no idea why that is - Jurassic World opened in China
>the same weekend as in the US.

A dinosaur movie is kind of universal but Star Wars doesn't have the same cultural cache in China that it does in the West so apparently disney's has their work cut out for them.

http://www.cnn.com/2015/12/18/asia/china-star-wars/

  

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Rjcc
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313. "they don't let foreign movies run during the holidays in China"
In response to Reply # 299


          

http://www.hollywoodreporter.com/news/china-box-office-mojin-marches-851344?utm_source=twitter


www.engadgethd.com - the other stuff i'm looking at

  

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bshelly
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366. "Just had the biggest opening weekend in Chinese history"
In response to Reply # 299


  

          

54 mill for Sat/Sun

----
bshelly

"You (Fisher) could get fired, Les Snead could get fired, Kevin Demoff could get fired, but I will always be Eric Dickerson.” (c) The God

  

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rorschach
Member since Nov 10th 2004
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Mon Dec-28-15 07:26 PM

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303. "On second viewing, I'm more interested in the events between 6 and 7"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

In 30 years all of the following happened.....

A New Republic was formed.
Luke started a Jedi school
Luke lost a Jedi school
A planet was taken over to become a Death Star
The First Order formed and rose to power on some Neo-Nazi ish

and some other stuff.
---------------------------------------


---------------------------------------

  

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Rjcc
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305. "if TNR is no longer the empire/senate"
In response to Reply # 303


          

who the fuck paid for this new death star bro?

Somebody gotta show me the receipts, there might be a mortgage loan scandal at work and the whole universe's economy is about to go down.

www.engadgethd.com - the other stuff i'm looking at

  

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Marauder21
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315. "I'd watch a short film about the First Order's shady business dealings"
In response to Reply # 305


  

          

Maybe they're selling space-coke.

------

12 play and 12 planets are enlighten for all the Aliens to Party and free those on the Sex Planet-maxxx

XBL: trkc21
Twitter: @tyrcasey

  

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soulfunk
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320. "The Clone Wars had several episodes about financing."
In response to Reply # 315


  

          

There's an Intergalactic Banking Clan which was always controlled by Palpatine - first in secret and then openly. They were financing both sides of the Clone War but charging different rates to each side depending on what suited Palpatine's needs. I'm guessing that Snoke has the same control over them with the First Order, but it is in secret so the New Republic isn't aware of it.

  

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Rjcc
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324. "ah, I see"
In response to Reply # 320


          


www.engadgethd.com - the other stuff i'm looking at

  

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Marauder21
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326. "That's actually a pretty dope plan"
In response to Reply # 320


  

          

------

12 play and 12 planets are enlighten for all the Aliens to Party and free those on the Sex Planet-maxxx

XBL: trkc21
Twitter: @tyrcasey

  

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Hellyeah
Member since Jul 05th 2008
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Wed Dec-30-15 03:58 PM

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330. "RE: I'd watch a short film about the First Order's shady business dealin..."
In response to Reply # 315


          

>Maybe they're selling space-coke.

and Carrie Fisher bought ALL of it

  

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handle
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321. "It's kind of covered in the books, but nowhere in the movies"
In response to Reply # 305
Tue Dec-29-15 12:57 PM by handle

          

The New Republic is around - Mon Mothma is still leader.

The Empire that went to the outer edges of the Galaxy and continued on. Controlling entire planets can produce incredible resources.

So 1 year after Jedi the Empire and TNR fight a battle at Jakku.

TNR wins, they sign a declaration imposing strict limitations of the empire, which becomes the First Order, which then moves largely in the outer rim and the "unknown regions."

Mon Motha then decentralizes the military and transforms it into a strictly peacekeeping force.

Leia starts "The Resistance" to continue to fight the First Order. (this is why The First Order sees The Resistance as proof of TNR treachery and lying.)

So 30 years goes by and that's where TFA starts.

Would have been nice to ahev some in the crawl? Or a precrawl?Or some exposition?

(I still kind of like Heir To the Empire's plot a little betetr.)

------------


Gone: My Discogs collection for The Roots:
http://www.discogs.com/user/tomhayes-roots/collection

  

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Rjcc
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322. "are these books that are still canon or no?"
In response to Reply # 321


          


www.engadgethd.com - the other stuff i'm looking at

  

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handle
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Tue Dec-29-15 01:38 PM

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323. "This was all the "new" Canon books and comics"
In response to Reply # 322


          

Heir to the Empire is no longer canon.

Here's the long, stupid lsit of Canon:
http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Timeline_of_canon_media

------------


Gone: My Discogs collection for The Roots:
http://www.discogs.com/user/tomhayes-roots/collection

  

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Rjcc
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325. "ahh, gotcha. damn there's still a shit ton of stuff"
In response to Reply # 323


          


www.engadgethd.com - the other stuff i'm looking at

  

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araQual
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335. "was cool for what it is. but...deja vu like a motherfucker."
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

V.

---
http://confessionsofacurlymind.com
https://soundcloud.com/confessionsofacurlymindredux
https://soundcloud.com/generic80sbadguy
https://soundcloud.com/miles_matheson

DROkayplayer™

  

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will_5198
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Mon Jan-04-16 12:37 AM

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337. "my only serious complaint is the lack of visual spectacle."
In response to Reply # 0


          

Star Wars is iconic because of all the amazing imagery. lightsaber duels. X-wings. TIE fighters. AT-ATs that look like mech-brontosaurs.

aside from the great long shots, there's not much here in that department. hope to see much more creative settings, creatures, starships and weapons in VIII and IX.

--------

  

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soulfunk
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Mon Jan-04-16 09:00 AM

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339. "I agree with this. It was pretty boring visually."
In response to Reply # 337


  

          

They took the "practical effects" thing a bit too far in terms of not creating interesting and new visuals. That was one thing that Lucas did well in the prequels - he created completely new worlds that were visually stunning. The concept of a city being the entire planet in Coruscant with all the levels of massive towers. Naboo which was earth like, but also had an entire underwater world there. Mustafar with all the lava. Geonosis, Kamino, etc.

Also the aliens in the new film seemed pretty generic vs. the Lucas films which always brought something new.

Outside of the visuals though, I don't have any problems with the new film. I don't mind the recurring themes from the old movies. Some of those themes are what makes Star Wars Star Wars. Even the new death star served a purpose - it destroyed the senate and Republic fleet which put the "good guys" in the position of being the underdog again.

I initially had some plot issues with it in terms of how powerful Rey is, and some of the quirks of what happened, but most of those are because we don't know everything yet. We don't know some of the backstory of these characters and what they have really been through. Some of that is being saved for the future films, and some of it will be revealed through books and other media as far as the time between ROTJ and this movie.

So overall I'd give it a solid B rating.

  

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Rjcc
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340. "the prequels had visual spectacle "
In response to Reply # 337


          

and not only did they suck, they look horrible now on rewatches.

there's nothing about watching fish eat each other underwater in naboo that continues to tickle my imagination in any meaningful way, and kamino was a blank of grey swirls + bad CGI.

the world in TFA looked lived in and I dug that.


the lightsaber fights (and all the fights, really) were well choreographed, which is way beyond the OGs, all those fight scenes were laughably bad looking back.

the battles were ridiculous, watching poe fly overhead taking out tie fighters while finn is on the ground looked outstanding and real. there were no weird motion problems that brought you out of it.

there's gotta be a happy medium between practical effects and showing us new things, but I wasn't disappointed in what I saw. much more important to me that it's done well than just trying to break new ground


www.engadgethd.com - the other stuff i'm looking at

  

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cgonz00cc
Member since Aug 01st 2002
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Mon Jan-04-16 12:23 PM

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341. "lots of fun and will see it again, but we got robbed of 2 things"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

1) the chasm between Rey and Kylo conveniently protected her from the temptation to give into anger and hate. That is, to me, the essence of Star Wars.

2) chewie and leia shared no moment of grief after the most important man in both of their lives is killed by his own son? That was to be THE emotional payoff of the whole film.

WHAT A TIME TO BE ALIVE

  

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soulfunk
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342. "I agree - to the point that both must have been purposeful. "
In response to Reply # 341


  

          

The pull between the dark and the light was a theme of the movie in terms of what Kylo was going through, and that scene at the end of the fight was a moment in which that pull was happening for Rey. The novelization of the film makes this more clear - she was using both the light side and dark side of the force in that fight. Specifically in the novelization Snoke was telling her to kill Kylo. So that casm didn't really rob is of the battle within her, but it saved the choice that she will need to make for later and I would expect the next films to explore that choice.

It's specifically interesting from me because Star Wars has shown at several points that a lack of thorough training makes one more likely to unknowingly use the dark side of he force when there is conflict. It happened when Luke faced Vader I'm ROTJ (though he won out by eventually throwing down his saber), it happened several times with Anakin in the prequels because he felt like he was skilled enough to take shortcuts in his training. They've even had it happen on Rebels with Ezra using the dark side.

I think they'll addres this during Luke's training of Rey if shown on screen, and at some point she's gonna have to make the choice. Could go either way.

As far as Chewie and Leia not embracing, that was REALLY weird. I looked for it on second viewing and they specifically showed him walking by her and them not even making eye contact. The only explanation I can think of is Leia was focused on Rey, they had a strong embrace that HAS to indicate that they know who each other are, whether she is Luke's daughter or if she is Leia's. Besides that, it was just strange that she wouldn't have went straight for Chewie.

  

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Rjcc
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343. "still got beef over not getting a medal"
In response to Reply # 342


          


www.engadgethd.com - the other stuff i'm looking at

  

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Tiger Woods
Member since Feb 15th 2004
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344. "Chewie helped carry Finn off the Falcon though right?"
In response to Reply # 342


  

          

  

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soulfunk
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345. "Nah I don't think so. There's a shot of him just walking "
In response to Reply # 344


  

          

by himself right past Leia. He crossed directly in front of the camera in the foreground while Leia was standing there waiting to hug Rey.

Maybe he initially helped carry Finn down, but after that he walked to the building by himself, all slow and sad.

  

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cgonz00cc
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346. "i saw that re: the novelization"
In response to Reply # 342


  

          

During the fight, you could tell that she was acting out of anger, an early step. But its always seemed to me that angry swings of a lightsaber are fairly innocuous until a life is taken.

A conscious choice to spare Kylo Ren in the film would just have been way more powerful to me. Even the way it played out was fine, had they piped in Snoke's voice and indicated that she had already made her choice. To me this needs to be revisited ASAP.

As for Chewie and Leia...that was just a fuckup. Revisiting that in VIII likely wont carry even a fraction of the emotional resonance it could have had, no matter whose daughter Rey is. Such a complete biff. Maybe im wrong, and there is some incredible emotional catharsis coming down the pipe, but i dont see how it could be framed to match the potential power of the acene we were denied.

sidenote: to me, the strongest evidence that Rey is Han's daughter was that brief moment of tenderness between Rey and Chewie in the cockpit of the Millenium Falcon. I liked that, because i dont think Chewie wouldnt have let *anyone* else sit in that seat. The second most convincing piece is that Chewie didnt go all suicide mission after Han died. Only devotion to the remaining members of the Solo family would have guided his actions the way they played out. Just an opinion of course.

WHAT A TIME TO BE ALIVE

  

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soulfunk
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347. "They definitely effed it up. I think their focus was on "
In response to Reply # 346


  

          

that Leia and Rey embrace and they forgot about Chewie.

  

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gumz
Member since Jan 09th 2005
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348. "yup i was thinking this as well"
In response to Reply # 346


  

          


>sidenote: to me, the strongest evidence that Rey is Han's
>daughter was that brief moment of tenderness between Rey and
>Chewie in the cockpit of the Millenium Falcon. I liked that,
>because i dont think Chewie wouldnt have let *anyone* else sit
>in that seat. The second most convincing piece is that Chewie
>didnt go all suicide mission after Han died. Only devotion to
>the remaining members of the Solo family would have guided his
>actions the way they played out. Just an opinion of course.

http://www.youtube.com/user/gumzization
twitter: @BrosefMalone

  

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Rjcc
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351. "the idea that rey is a member of the solo/skywalker line"
In response to Reply # 346


          

and no one says anything.


is profoundly stupid to me.

it could be true.

I don't think it is, and I hope it is not.

www.engadgethd.com - the other stuff i'm looking at

  

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soulfunk
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352. "The only way it would make sense is if they didn't know..."
In response to Reply # 351


  

          

It could be possible that Leia is the only one who knows that Rey is part of the Solo/Skywalker family, and she didn't realize this until the end of the movie when the Falcon lands back at the Resistance base. They hugged each other so strong it would seem that there had do have been some kind of history there.

So Rey could have been born after Han left so he never knew her. Maybe right after she was born she was put into hiding or went off to train with Luke. I'm not sure of the timeline in terms of when the Jedi Academy attack happened, or the ages.

  

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Rjcc
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353. "maybe it's just a hug"
In response to Reply # 352
Fri Jan-08-16 12:00 PM by Rjcc

          

in the book chewie is carrying finn. and there's nothing attributed to the hug that suggest any connection more than just two people, and I didn't see anything in the movie that suggested a deeper connection.

chewie doesn't fly w/ her because he recognizes a member of the tribe, it's cuz he respects her skill. in the movie, I'd just assumed he was with han's plan to bring her on, so they're the crew now. that's what it is.





www.engadgethd.com - the other stuff i'm looking at

  

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soulfunk
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354. "Maybe. I'm definitely speculating. But they specifically sent her"
In response to Reply # 353


  

          

to go find Luke. If she wasn't in the Skywalker/Solo family I don't think it makes sense. If Leia had just met Rey and they had no connection, I'm not sure why she would be sent to get Luke. It wouldn't have just been about her getting trained - their whole goal throughout the film was to find Luke to get him to come help the Resistance, from before they even met Rey on Jakku.

It's possible that Rey is a random, but with all the hints they dropped it would be a bit disappointing that they kept it a big secret throughout this movie and the couple years before the next one to reveal nothing.

  

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cgonz00cc
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355. "i would rather it be just stupid than nonsensical"
In response to Reply # 351


  

          

So im biased towards ideas that are admittedly kind of dumb if they maintain any sort of character consistency

WHAT A TIME TO BE ALIVE

  

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Nodima
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349. "are we supposed to take the novelization of the film as canon?"
In response to Reply # 342


  

          

Normally that's not how things work. If that's how this franchise works now, I might just have to tap out now. When I was in elementary school I read the novelizations of Resident Evil video games but I was never told all the changes and extra inferences made in those books were canon. If they were, I'd have probably just read the books.


I'm not in this thread to argue about how disappointing a Star Wars movie (and, again, how fine an entertainment product it was for a trashy off-season summer blockbuster) The Force Awakens is anymore, but I'm genuinely curious if I'm supposed to know that stuff from the books going forward with the movie franchise.


There's already enough backstory getting filled in by frivolous cross media tie-ins, please don't tell me there's actual, scene-defining story beats getting left out of the movies as well.


~~~~~~~~~
"This is the streets, and I am the trap." � Jay Bilas
http://www.popmatters.com/pm/archive/contributor/517
Hip Hop Handbook: http://tinyurl.com/ll4kzz

  

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soulfunk
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350. "Yes, the novelization is canon."
In response to Reply # 349


  

          

http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Star_Wars:_The_Force_Awakens_(novel)

The novelization is the same as the movie but since it's written out, there are certain things implied in the film that are right there in black and white in the book.

It's not that you need to read the book or that they are putting different stuff in the book, but some of the hints and clues as to what is happening and some of the motivation behind what is happening is given background in the book.

Specifically in this case, when watching the film it felt like Rey was using some of the dark side during that fight, and the novelization confirms that feeling.

  

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go mack
Member since May 02nd 2008
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358. "Had a thought"
In response to Reply # 341


  

          

What if they switch it up in VIII to turn Ben Solo back to the good guy and Rey turns to the dark side? I don't think it would work but might be about the only shocking twist that wouldn't be expected. Could be the reason they kept showing Kylo Ren take off his mask and show his emotions tho and also showed Rey fighting a little more fiercly. idk, not sure if would like that as the Ben Solo character seems more the whiny type that would be tough to root for.

  

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JAESCOTT777
Member since Feb 18th 2006
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Sat Jan-09-16 10:46 AM

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357. "Story was weak and the last 40 minutes were literally ep. IV "
In response to Reply # 0
Sat Jan-09-16 10:53 AM by JAESCOTT777

  

          

Shit 3 outta 5 at best
Saber fights were among the worst in series history

For Kylo ren to be some kind of future master
He sure wasn't good

No way in hell anyone who never even used a LS
should've stood any chance. He should have been bodied in 3-4 moves

It's better than ep 1 maybe even with ep2
But I think that's about it

It was average

  

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justin_scott
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360. "and Finn didn't stand a chance"
In response to Reply # 357


          

in fact, he was about to get killed. Kylo was suffering from a major blast, so he's not even close to 100%, and Finn is of course a trained fighter. those fights make perfect sense, unless you skim over facts.

************************************************************

  

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cgonz00cc
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361. "i just watched attack of the clones again recently. its not good."
In response to Reply # 357


  

          

Until this rewatch i actually remembered liking it.

Force Awakens is MUCH better

WHAT A TIME TO BE ALIVE

  

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Rjcc
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362. "it's soooo trash"
In response to Reply # 361


          


www.engadgethd.com - the other stuff i'm looking at

  

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pretentious username
Member since Jun 18th 2010
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368. "word. i tried giving the prequels a fair chance recently."
In response to Reply # 361


  

          

they really are terrible. Ep. 2 gets some credit for not being Ep. 1, but it truly is awful. Shit, even emo Kylo Ren can't be as hard to watch as emo Vader.

  

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cgonz00cc
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370. "the Anakin and Padme love story is possibly the cinematic WOAT"
In response to Reply # 368


  

          

WHAT A TIME TO BE ALIVE

  

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Orbit_Established
Member since Oct 27th 2002
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372. "Han and Ben Solo was almost as bad"
In response to Reply # 370


  

          


Not quite

----------------------------



O_E: "Acts like an asshole and posts with imperial disdain"




"I ORBITs the solar system, listenin..."

(C)Keith Murray, "

  

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cgonz00cc
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378. "Not close to me. "
In response to Reply # 372


  

          

Slightly hokey, sure. Actors not meeting the emotional level require by the scene, sure.

But OTOH

"Hold me, like you did by the lake on Naboo; so long ago when there was nothing but our love."

NOT close to that lol

WHAT A TIME TO BE ALIVE

  

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soulfunk
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379. "Right, and don't forget "I don't like sand, it gets everywhere""
In response to Reply # 378


  

          

and other classics like:

Anakin Skywalker: You are so... beautiful.
Padmé: It's only because I'm so in love.
Anakin Skywalker: No, it's because I'm so in love with you.
Padmé: So love has blinded you?
Anakin Skywalker: Well, that's not exactly what I meant.
Padmé: But it's probably true.

  

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cgonz00cc
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381. "Jesus"
In response to Reply # 379


  

          

WHAT A TIME TO BE ALIVE

  

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Orbit_Established
Member since Oct 27th 2002
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380. "Han and Leia discussing divorce terms during a rebellion"
In response to Reply # 378
Tue Jan-12-16 07:51 PM by Orbit_Established

  

          


That was the worst

And worse than Anakin and ole girl



----------------------------



O_E: "Acts like an asshole and posts with imperial disdain"




"I ORBITs the solar system, listenin..."

(C)Keith Murray, "

  

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soulfunk
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382. "Nothing in movie history has been worse than this:"
In response to Reply # 380


  

          

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lIvn1h-71IE

  

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Rjcc
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375. "the entire arc. if it's not the worst, it's one of the worst."
In response to Reply # 370


          


www.engadgethd.com - the other stuff i'm looking at

  

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obsidianchrysalis
Member since Jan 29th 2003
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Sat Jan-09-16 10:10 PM

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363. "RE: Episode VII plot similarities to Episode IV"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

The Star Wars movies have mostly been about the 'tides' of the Force ebbing and flowing between light and dark as certain circumstances change.

For instance, in Empire Strikes Back, Vader, as machine, slices Luke's hand off and Luke becomes like his father. (Dark overtakes light.)

In Jedi, Vader is touched by his love for his son, Luke and saves Luke from the Emperor. Luke's last moment with his father was with Anakin as a man. Their relationship is restored and their relationship has come full circle.

The parallels between The Phantom Menace are established when Anakin is mentored by Qui-Gon, just as Obi-Won mentored Luke in Episode IV.

Also, Anakin destroyed the ship with the spherical bridge in Episode I by using torpedo which curved like Luke in A New Hope.

Granted the only real surprise for me was when Han died, but even that 'mentor' dying could be a parallel to Obi-Won dying in A New Hope.

So, these movies always will have the same themes as far as dark and light, mentors / fathers and sons, people finding the courage to discover their true power and the lengths people go through to end their pain.

I understand people's complaints that the new stories aren't 'original' enough, but the retreaded ground seems to be the main tradition of these movies.

<--- Me when my head hits the pillow

  

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cgonz00cc
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364. "it wasnt the thematic things that bothered me "
In response to Reply # 363


  

          

But

Rey and Jakku could not have been more like Luke and Tatooine, altho at least this time i hope someone had the good sense not to hide her out on her home fucking planet.

"I cant stay and help. Good bye." "JK IM BACK!"

Escape from the Death Star

Game changing data hidden inside a charismatic little astromech

Leia and Rey captivity and torture

"Hey remember how we blew up that first Death Star? Just do that!"

The plot device recycling was my issue...not the themes

WHAT A TIME TO BE ALIVE

  

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Rjcc
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365. "RE: it wasnt the thematic things that bothered me "
In response to Reply # 364


          

>>Rey and Jakku could not have been more like Luke and Tatooine, altho at least this time i hope someone had the good sense not to hide her out on her home fucking planet.

the only similarity is age and desert....they're both good with droids and flying things, which doesn't seem to be that unique of a skill.


every other thing is different.

Luke only wanted to leave.

Rey only wanted to stay.

Luke is being raised by a family.

Rey has no family.

Luke is a little snotty nosed whiny piece of shit.

Rey is not.



www.engadgethd.com - the other stuff i'm looking at

  

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cgonz00cc
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369. "im not sure i agree"
In response to Reply # 365


  

          

Yes luke was a lil prick and Rey seems to be much more mature

But it seemed to me that Rey wanted to leave, for the same reasons Luke did: adventure and excitement (even tho a Jedi craves not these things)

Fear that you might miss your familial rendezvous and having to help your uncle with the next water harvest arent similarly powerful motivators, but they are similarly not their own personal desires. You could tell as soon as she put on that X Wing helmet that she wanted out.

WHAT A TIME TO BE ALIVE

  

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Rjcc
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374. "RE: im not sure i agree"
In response to Reply # 369


          

>Yes luke was a lil prick and Rey seems to be much more
>mature
>
>But it seemed to me that Rey wanted to leave, for the same
>reasons Luke did: adventure and excitement (even tho a Jedi
>craves not these things)
>
>Fear that you might miss your familial rendezvous and having
>to help your uncle with the next water harvest arent similarly
>powerful motivators, but they are similarly not their own
>personal desires. You could tell as soon as she put on that X
>Wing helmet that she wanted out.

eh, putting on the x wing helmet didn't say that to me. even if I take it that way, wanting a little more excitement isn't really a character trait.

she had big desire #1 - someone either comes back for her or stays with her. Abandonment issues, in big capital letters.

Luke wanted out, and was agitating for it at every step. rey had to be talked into it, even after she was already away from jakku / on the millennium falcon.

www.engadgethd.com - the other stuff i'm looking at

  

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soulfunk
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376. "Exactly. Luke was looking up to the Binary sunset wanting to leave."
In response to Reply # 374


  

          

Rey was looking up at that ship flying away not wanting to leave, but being reminded of her family leaving her and wanting them to come back.

Yeah she was interested in flying and spent time reading manuals and playing in simulators because she wanted to be a pilot. But the film made it clear that her biggest desire was for her family to come back. She was offered her dream job of working for Solo on the Falcon which was legendary in her mind, but turned it down because she wanted to go back to wait on her family.

  

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Orbit_Established
Member since Oct 27th 2002
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377. "Good lord. Lame. n/m"
In response to Reply # 376


  

          


----------------------------



O_E: "Acts like an asshole and posts with imperial disdain"




"I ORBITs the solar system, listenin..."

(C)Keith Murray, "

  

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Orbit_Established
Member since Oct 27th 2002
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367. "Jesus, you guys just refuse to think for yourselves"
In response to Reply # 363


  

          


It was a shitty retread to make money

Not a terrible movie

But stop making excuses for it with these lame appeals
to tradition and "that's the way its supposed to be"

Its unooriginal and hokie

That is what Stars Wars and probably will be moving
forward

  

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bshelly
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373. "china China China china"
In response to Reply # 367


  

          

----
bshelly

"You (Fisher) could get fired, Les Snead could get fired, Kevin Demoff could get fired, but I will always be Eric Dickerson.” (c) The God

  

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kelvinmercerlookalike
Member since Jan 08th 2006
6025 posts
Wed Jan-13-16 10:00 PM

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383. "VFX before and after"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

https://vimeo.com/151719063



*CROCKER*

word booty.

HSUBAKCITS

www.smokingsection.net



http://i140.photobucket.com/albums/r9/chowyunskinny/Gold%20Chef/iron_chef.jpg

  

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Heinz
Member since Dec 26th 2003
20759 posts
Sun Jan-17-16 06:16 PM

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384. "Why hasnt this leaked!!! lol"
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CaptNish
Member since Mar 09th 2004
14495 posts
Wed Jan-27-16 12:42 AM

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387. "It has. Like opening weekend."
In response to Reply # 384


  

          

I mean, it's a cam copy, but shit....

_
Yo! That’s My Jawn: The Podcast - Available Now!
http://linktr.ee/yothatsmyjawn

  

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Heinz
Member since Dec 26th 2003
20759 posts
Wed Jan-27-16 03:41 AM

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388. "Lol I meant a screener "
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The cam copy is horrible.

  

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rdhull
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Wed Jan-27-16 01:18 PM

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389. "sick of this kodi cam shit lol..."
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>I mean, it's a cam copy, but shit....

  

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maternalbliss
Member since Jul 05th 2005
2553 posts
Sun Jan-31-16 01:49 PM

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390. "RE: Bliss movie award winner"
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Star Wars has won the following 2015 prize,

It's a bad movie but you like it anyway movie award. Congradulations to The Force Awakens. I was gonna give Furious 7 the trophy.

Episode 7 is fun. I might go and see it again. The mythos is very thin. Imo this episode was the same as New Hope. I really am not that excited about this reboot. I predict that episodes 8 and 9 will fall flat.

The Force Awakens
Grade B+

  

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Ceej
Member since Feb 16th 2006
66745 posts
Mon Feb-01-16 08:20 AM

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393. "You thought it was like A New Hope??"
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http://i.imgur.com/vPqCzVU.jpg

  

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justin_scott
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Sun Jan-31-16 02:32 PM

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391. "Best Star Wars movie of 2015"
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.

************************************************************

  

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justin_scott
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Sun Jan-31-16 02:32 PM

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392. "Best Star Wars movie since the last one"
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.

************************************************************

  

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handle
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18948 posts
Mon Feb-08-16 12:05 PM

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394. "I saw it again this week"
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This was the first time I saw it projected properly, so +1.

This time around I noticed how Kylo was *VERY* interested in Rey that I didn't quite pick up the first time. Kylo definitely knows (or suspects) something about her the entire movie. When he throws the temper tantrum and the guy says something about AND a girl helping them escape he says "What girl?" and lays hands on the guy.

I'm also wondering why they call Luke the last of the Jedi? Maybe it that Luke and Liea are related is only known by Han, Lei, Luke, Chewie and not the bigger universe.

I'm still confused if Starkiller base was a planet or a machine.

I also caught the line from CP30 about R2 not having all the imperial archives - but that's exactly what he does have. I don't know why he woke up at just that point - he had those in him the entire movie.



------------


Gone: My Discogs collection for The Roots:
http://www.discogs.com/user/tomhayes-roots/collection

  

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Heinz
Member since Dec 26th 2003
20759 posts
Tue Apr-12-16 02:21 PM

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396. "I think a lot of these questions will be answered in the next movie"
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>This was the first time I saw it projected properly, so +1.
>
>This time around I noticed how Kylo was *VERY* interested in
>Rey that I didn't quite pick up the first time. Kylo
>definitely knows (or suspects) something about her the entire
>movie. When he throws the temper tantrum and the guy says
>something about AND a girl helping them escape he says "What
>girl?" and lays hands on the guy.
>
My theory here or how I took it when I watched the movie for the first time was that he knows who she is, they couldve been trained together by Luke at some point. I think he either was the one who wiped her mind and hid her, or she was hid by someone else (Luke) and this is his first time seeing her since then.

>I'm also wondering why they call Luke the last of the Jedi?
>Maybe it that Luke and Liea are related is only known by Han,
>Lei, Luke, Chewie and not the bigger universe.
>
Liea is force sensitive she's not a Jedi. Just like Maz who is force sensitive but not a Jedi.

>I'm still confused if Starkiller base was a planet or a
>machine.
I think its a planet that either was already a planet at once and they just built a base that takes up the whole planet.

>
>I also caught the line from CP30 about R2 not having all the
>imperial archives - but that's exactly what he does have. I
>don't know why he woke up at just that point - he had those in
>him the entire movie.
I thought R2 had the other part of the map but was programmed to turn on from sleep mode once Rey was near. He didn't turn on till Rey arrived to the base. Her awakening causes his awakening.


  

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phenompyrus
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Mon Apr-11-16 10:37 AM

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395. "This movie definitely still holds up too."
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Since the Blu-ray dropped, I've re-watched and this just goes others to show how to make a proper sequel to a beloved franchise.

http://twitter.com/phenompyrus

Get Out the Room
http://getouttheroom.podomatic.com
http://itunes.apple.com/us/podcast/get-out-the-room/id525657893

  

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Flash80
Member since Jan 03rd 2007
6953 posts
Sun May-15-16 12:09 PM

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397. "blu-ray review"
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finn talks too much.

actually they all kinda do.

the end.

  

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soulfunk
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Mon Sep-19-16 07:54 AM

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398. "Just rewatched, and noticed something BIG."
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Finn is definitely Force-sensitive. I know there's been plenty of discussion about it back and forth. There's evidence usually brought up with him being able to do anything at all with a lightsaber, him being able to beat the Stormtrooper conditioning to realize that what they were doing was wrong, Kylo sensing him during the attack on the village, Mas giving him the saber in the first place and trusting that he'd be able to use it, etc. All that evidence has been argued, but my conclusion was still that he was not Force sensitive because if he was I'd think the film would state it more directly.

Until now.

I rewatched last night and noticed that during the Starkiller base attack on the Hosnian system, Finn heard voices screaming in pain BEFORE he even saw the attack in the sky and before they were actually killed. You can see it clearly here, at 1:36 in the video:

https://youtu.be/-HmWDdmTAE8?t=96

He's running up the steps to get on the ship, hears all the voices screaming and turns around to see what it was. At that point the lasers from the Starkiller Base are still heading towards the planets but they haven't hit yet. What really makes it clear is in the next shot you see the lasers heading towards the planets and in this shot the screams are cut - so we are meant to just be hearing what Finn heard. Then when the weapon hits the planet you can hear the actual screams.

So Finn heard them through the Force, right before it actually happened. Very similar to Obi-Wan in Episode IV hearing millions of voices crying out when Alderan was destroyed.

This can't be an accident, because the visuals and audio are lined up very clearly. But I never noticed it until last night. I hadn't heard anyone else talking about it, and I'm a HUGE Star Wars nerd that listens to podcasts and reads forums, etc. When searching I did find a couple people who talked about it on Reddit right after the film came out, and in the Youtube comments on the above video someone brought it up.

But in my opinion this is CLEAR evidence that Finn has Force sensitivity. It is probably latent and he isn't even aware of it and hasn't been trained.

(By the way, this scene is the biggest plot hole in the movie. There is no way that Han and Finn should have been able to see that weapon hitting the Hosnian system from another planet light years away in real time.)



  

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CaptNish
Member since Mar 09th 2004
14495 posts
Mon Sep-19-16 08:09 AM

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399. "I've thought so since first viewing."
In response to Reply # 398


  

          

As a matter of fact, I think both he and Poe are Force sensitive. I think that's where the subtitle comes in to play. I think the Force is awakening in more than just Rey.

_
Yo! That’s My Jawn: The Podcast - Available Now!
http://linktr.ee/yothatsmyjawn

  

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soulfunk
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Mon Sep-19-16 08:37 AM

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400. "I also did initially. But I've gone in circles because the "
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most blogs and forums I've read have people thinking he's not Force sensitive. Stuff like this is way more simple than we make it as fans sometimes. Just watch the movie and what do you think? I think they dropped plenty of direct hints that he is Force sensitive. That video above is DIRECT proof IMO.

As far as Poe, maybe. There wasn't enough of him in the film for me to make that call although that shot of him knocking out 10 tie fighters could be a clue.

But to your point - I have been seeing clues from the LucasFilm Story Group and also from some of the new canon they are releasing with the Rebels cartoon, Rogue One, and TFA, that further defines the idea of the Force that everyone has a degree of force sensitivity, just some more or less than others.

Pablo Hidalgo from the Story Group has talked about this, and basically relates force sensitivity to talent that someone is born with. He used Bruce Lee as an example. Bruce Lee was born with elite level talent and combined that with years of training and hard work to become legendary. A Jedi Knight would have to be born with elite level talent (high force sensitivity) and combined this with years of training and hard work to become a Jedi Knight.

If someone was not born with the elite level talent that Bruce Lee had, they could still train in martial arts, and if they worked very hard and were dedicated, they could end up being very good. They would never be the legend that Bruce Lee was because they never had that potential. The same could be true in Star Wars with the Force. Someone like Donnie Yen's character from Rogue One could have been born without the elite level force sensitivity that a Jedi would have, but since he believed in the force and practiced and worked hard, he may have developed the ability to do some things that a trained jedi would be able to do.

You could also have someone born with some Force sensitivity but were never trained, and because of that they could do some things like pick up a lightsaber or sense certain things in the force without having been trained.

It will be interesting to see what develops with all the new Star Wars material coming out.

  

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Heinz
Member since Dec 26th 2003
20759 posts
Fri Sep-23-16 02:43 PM

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401. "Oh wow never thought of that"
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Thats a good point. I think im on your side of the argument now. Damn never even really though of that during that scene. Makes sense

  

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will_5198
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Sat Dec-26-20 02:56 PM

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402. "still my favorite numbered entry outside the original trilogy"
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I thought the first 45 minutes were fantastic when I first saw this, and they still hold up; the imagery (Rey rappelling down a fallen Star Destroyer, Kylo force-freezing a blaster shot in mid-air) and new character possibilities were extremely exciting at the time.

seeing Poe, Finn, Kylo Ren and Rey interact over that first hour is just depressing in retrospect. especially Finn -- John Boyega's emotiveness and ability to deadpan should've been a main attraction over the next two films. a Stormtrooper with no family connection can pick up a lightsaber and find out he's super force-sensitive? what a great idea that we should kill immediately!

unfortunately the movie climaxes during Rey and Finn's escape in the Falcon. the rest is mostly boilerplate Star Wars narrative, weighed down by the films necessity to thread the Skywalkers into every arc.

--------

  

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Heinz
Member since Dec 26th 2003
20759 posts
Sat Dec-26-20 03:17 PM

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403. "Yeah it's a great movie"
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----------

IG @erichrigonan

  

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