Am I the only one in for the second round? I love this show. The darkness of it. This season has my man Stephen Williams on deck which gets me excited. I like the story so far. That wack ass dude from Paid In Full is here and he seems just as slimy.

So what are your early impressions? They are outside of the source material at this point so I wonder where the story goes from this point on.

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.
.
.
Speaking inspiration to your situations on Instagram @jeromejcase.

Very interesting way to kick off the new season.

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he put CGI babies to shame with his portrayal of desperation and will to survive. that lil guy has a future ahead of him.

I was kind of hoping we were mostly done with them. I really dug the first episode because it felt like a fresh new direction, but now they're bringing back the most annoying thing about last season.

HBO sure thinks so but I'm not sure. He seemed to enjoy it, at least a lil bit.

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She gave him the chocha and tried to burn him. Goes home all mad. I was wondering what was he mad about chick bumping uglies with him or threatening to burn him alive? If it was me I'd think it was totally worth it as long as I'm alive.He can do a lot worse in that town.

time is money, money is time
so i keep 7 o'clock in the bank and gain interest in the hour of God
I'm saving to buy my freedom, God, grant me wings, I'm too fly not to fly _ Saul Williams

~~~~
When you are born, you cry, and the world rejoices. Live so that when you die, you rejoice, and the world cries.
~~~~
You cannot hate people for their own good.

I'm really liking the varying focus and the new mysteries. There are still so many questions from last season too that have paved the way for new ones this season and more. I did not think this show could keep momentum going, but man have I been wrong.

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*******************************************************
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- Cory Booker

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- Gary Lineker

also I love Carrie Coon.

I think moving beyond the original content/book was liberating for the show. I am really f'kn with it right now.

They live next door to each other and flirt hard.

He needs to hurry cause Jill ain't waiting around.

------------------------------------------
America from 9:00 on: https://youtu.be/GUwLCQU10KQ

Doesn't look like he has many options in Miracle, especially with that haircut. She basically throwing it at Joe.

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Really strong first episode I thought. I loved the focus on the Murphy family, and the weird iniquities amongst the family members. On the surface they're the All American family: firefighter, nurse, choir girl, church boy. Then you see the firefighter burn down a home. And his wife complicit with his behavior. The daughter streaks through the woods, while the son is loyal to an (obvious?) Jesus impersonator. Like... wtf is going on here?

I need to revisit the first season's thread, but I remember having the impression that not a lot of shit made sense in the first several episodes, but these were then explained in a fairly organic manner in the second half of the season. This dynamic really changed my impression of the season, and I ended up really liking the show overall. If they're able to explain a lot of the weirdness logically and elegantly again, then I've got high hopes for the season.

Really happy to see others are into this season.. It's been a really compelling ride so far and I dig how closely they've threaded the line between the supernatural and the spiritual. Some really powerful performances so far, and it's cool to see some former GR folks flex their chops more this season.

I'm digging that there is no one main character. Everybody has a story and last night's episode might have had the most confrontational situation thus far. I can't wait to see where this goes.

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...unexpectedly, especially since Matt Jamison and his wife were the focus. Never thought either character was very interesting or compelling until now... showing us his daily routine was a beautiful way to start the episode too.

I'm kinda sad I'm caught up now because now it means I need to wait to see what happens next. There's been such elegance in the character development this season... like 13Rose said, the lack of focus on a singular character has paid dividends each episode.

I'm really curious to see where John Murphy's arc develops...

you have this man just waiting on his wife to wake up again and trying his hardest to remain sane.
(that's if his wife even woke up because while we see glimpses of her speaking to him with the car incidence, we dont' know if he's hallucinating or not.)

I really dislike the black father/fire fighter. I'm hoping that we find out why he is that way soon. But he's such a turn off which means he's killing that role.

>I really dislike the black father/fire fighter. I'm hoping
>that we find out why he is that way soon. But he's such a turn
>off which means he's killing that role.

He's killing it with that blank look on his face during his "interrogations" where he's waiting for the other person to say what he expects them to say but ready to pounce once they do say it. It's like this weird mix of respect and menace and anger that's really unsettling. But that's why his motivations are so interesting.


>you have this man just waiting on his wife to wake up again
>and trying his hardest to remain sane.
>(that's if his wife even woke up because while we see glimpses
>of her speaking to him with the car incidence, we dont' know
>if he's hallucinating or not.)
>

I think that was a hallucination, although I believe him when he says his wife woke up for that one night.

who was sponsoring him and get him to come and get him. Did I miss something? it was like no one could do anything for him and WHY don't they have a picture log of ppl who are allowed? I don't get how the father and son could have used those tags. They need tighter security so they can scan those bracelets and see who is suppose to be there and who isn't. ppl could be selling bracelets all the time this way.

i want to believe he wasn't hallucinating...but the way this story goes...who knows.

>
>I really dislike the black father/fire fighter. I'm hoping
>that we find out why he is that way soon. But he's such a turn
>off which means he's killing that role.

Strong dislike
I'm holding off because yes he's just really good
~~~~
When you are born, you cry, and the world rejoices. Live so that when you die, you rejoice, and the world cries.
~~~~
You cannot hate people for their own good.

last season was cool but this season is incredible.... the storylines r dope and the acting is top notch

*******************************************************
i will not let finite disappointment undermine infinite hope
- Cory Booker

Football is a simple game; 22 men chase a ball for 90 minutes, and at the end the Germans always win
- Gary Lineker

is that it minimizes confusion from the first season while building on its strengths. I've thought about why I like the show so much (especially this season) and for me I think it's because it portrays such an intriguing mix of both the depths and the heights of humanity.

One of the problems with the first season is that the first several episodes had such horrific events that watching the show felt "dirty". Like you had to cleanse your head after watching it. Anecdotally, one of my buddies who tried watching the show ended up stopping after 3 or 4 episodes in, and he's never been squeamish or emotionally invested in shows (ie, he'd have no issues with some of the more draining scenes). But he wasn't feeling it. What makes the second season "easier" in a sense is that the balance between the assholes and the samaritans is more appropriate, so you don't feel like walking off a bridge afterwards, hah.

On top of that, this season is more streamlined in terms of the unexplainable. Season 1 threw crazy dogs, mute cults, mysterious deer, Holy Wayne, etc. at us right from the jump, with very little answers unless you stuck it through to the whole season. There's less mystery this season, although that could be a product of not having to explain the world anymore (or maybe no longer being constrained by the books). It creates a more efficient narrative without losing the intrigue.

All in all though, I'm hard pressed to criticize much about this season, if anything at all. Oh yeah, I'm pretty much over the intro though. The lyrics beat you over the head and I am not a fan of folk music. Other than that though, good shit.

This post is making me want to revisit the first season's thread, hah.

I do love the visuals. I actually look forward to seeing the intro every ep just for the visuals.

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which is odd because before this season I thought it was a great show.

.

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... interesting passage from the interview with the last episode's director Mimi Leder:

>>>>

HR: In your episode centered on Kevin's father, what's your sense of the elder Garvey's mental state? Is he crazy?

ML: My interpretation is that he is hearing voices and that he's not crazy. I think he snapped after the departure, the voices really do come and talk to him. That's why I did the shot of his reflection in the window — who's he talking to? He's definitely talking to somebody. He definitely hears the voices, the voices are telling him what's important, and he tells his son to listen. This is Damon's brilliant crafting — in episode nine, we go back and we see Garvey Sr. tell his son, "this is it. This is your purpose in life. You need to accept it. There isn't any more than this." In that moment, your mind will hopefully go back to this episode seven. It's part of Kevin's arc, finding out what is his purpose in this life.

HR: Has he found it?

ML: I think he's still discovering it. I think he's just, in this finale, confessing to what happened at the moment of departure and what he was wishing for. He was wanting his family gone, and he feels the guilt. He is still looking for his purpose.

>>>>>

In both seasons now, it seems like major supernatural (or religious, depending on your perspective) events have happened when Kevin was at the depths of his despair: the Departure and now this giant fissure.... or second Departure?. Not saying these events revolved around him necessarily, just that it's not coincidental either. No idea where it goes, just thought it's worth noting.

It might be wishful thinking considering Lindelof's reputation from Lost, but I'm hoping the second half of the season ties everything together as well as the first season did.



Edit: Random, but interesting post on reddit breaking down the math of the statistical likelihood of a town like Jarden existing with no Departures. Assuming a 2% individual chance of departure in a town with population of 9,261, the chances of this happening are 1 in 1.80021081, or 1 in 1800167894059654614011665840669300000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000. In other words, a statistical impossibility.

There really may be something to Miracle, Texas.

https://www.reddit.com/r/TheLeftovers/comments/3rou7h/miraculousness_of_miracle_texas/

I'm sick of Nora's shit. Loved this ep.

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Yo Regina King and Carrie Coon deserve Emmys just this episode alone.

Top notch acting, writing and directing b.

------------------------------------------
America from 9:00 on: https://youtu.be/GUwLCQU10KQ

Nora threw the rock through the Murphy's window because she's bitter/jealous/derisive they still think Evie is alive, correct? That they haven't accepted she's departed yet?

I was thinking that through the episode but it wasn't until Erika threw the rock back that I felt more certain.

Also, could any book readers chime in with the "lensing" theory? Was this ever hinted in the book at all? Either way, I love how the show is exploring a metaphysical origin for the Sudden Departure, although it seemed a bit conflicting to me when Dr. Hebert attributed Nora's "lens" with that of the demon Azrael. If there's a scientifically measurable basis to departures, then why is the theory based on religious precepts?

But yeah, great episode that answers some questions as it opens up other questions. I dug how they explained the bird in the box and the sacrificing of the goat.

what if the girls didn't depart? Saw some intriguing theories on the interwebs... Evie has a history of rebelliousness right? And she "wouldn't understand" if her parents split? What was the purpose of that scene when the three girls were sitting in the dead silent car? Why was the car left blaring music (as if it was meant to be discovered)? And what was Erika signing to Evie that she didn't want John to hear (apparently she said "it will be okay")?

It's conceivable that Evie, knowing what was coming, didn't want to be around to see her parents split... so they emulate a departure and skip town for some time. I would posit that the details of departures are all over the internet (if not the DSD questionnaires themselves), so it wouldn't be hard to tick off the checkboxes for a successful "departure". It also feels like the show is directing us to believe in their departure, setting up a perfect swerve.

With that said, while the theory is compelling, I hope this isn't the case. I think the narrative could end up stronger if the girls are really gone.

> I think the narrative could end up stronger
>if the girls are really gone.

I rarely make up my mind like this
I'm convinced they are
I'm convinced it's because of Nora and fam
I'm not pinning it exactly to her just a general your fam is the main factor that changed in that town


~~~~
When you are born, you cry, and the world rejoices. Live so that when you die, you rejoice, and the world cries.
~~~~
You cannot hate people for their own good.

literally season 1 was all of the book. the way the son leaves the baby at his dad's is the way the book ends.

but the son leaves the child and joins another "cult"...he doesn't go back and help his mom.

'Lensing' and the geographical basis are pretty neat ways to expand the world then, on Lindelof's part

No "lensing". No National Geographic issues. No Australia. The book is barely plot-driven at all. Even less than the show.

Which is fine, because the show has become psychologically "deeper" than the book. Especially now that they've gone beyond anything that was written.

-----------------

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... a noted religious scholar that was a consultant for this season. They're older articles based on the first two episodes, but some interesting insights in both of them. A couple passages are pasted below:

http://www.vulture.com/2015/10/leftovers-mysteries-religion-reza-aslan.html

What’s the significance of the prologue, which takes place in the same spot that becomes Miracle?

The episode is called “Axis Mundi,” an ancient thought that goes back thousands of years. The idea is there are parts of the planet that served as a cosmic pole around which the entire universe circles. So for instance, the pyramids at Giza, the temple in Jerusalem, the Kaaba in Mecca are axis mundis... The inherent sanctity and magic of this place — whatever it is — is an eternal thing. It’s not just something that happened at the sudden departure.

Isaac predicts something bad is going to happen to John, who brushes it off. But when he drops his spoon down the sink disposal, he’s afraid to stick his hand in to get it. He’s superstitious after all.

You got it perfectly. The most absolute believer has in the back of his mind, in secret, doubt. And that’s true for the most fervent unbeliever as well. In the post-departure world, there is no such thing as absolute certainty. It just doesn’t exist.



http://www.vulture.com/2015/10/leftovers-questions-reza-aslan.html


But Kevin doesn’t cop to everything — his run-ins with deer and dogs.

Many think Kevin’s losing his mind; some think he’s having some kind of spiritual experience. I like to think of him in the second way, that either a prophet or a shaman. If I were to pick, I’d say he’s a shamanistic character. Prophets usually get messages from the beyond: They hear a voice telling them something, and then repeat that message to the masses. Shamans don’t really have a message. They’re kind of medicine men — that’s how they’re often referred to in tribal society... This is a very common trope in ancient religious traditions going back tens of thousands of years. Often they have an animal guide. In fact, for many shamans, the first part of the initiation is to find a spirit guide, an animal to communicate with and help them see the other world.

When Kevin Sr. is released from the mental institution, he says he’s now doing what the voices say. So was he “crazy” pre-Departure? Were the Kevins chosen before or after?

Is a shaman chosen or made? Most primitive tribes believe shamanism, and even prophecy, is a hereditary condition. Moses wasn’t just a prophet, so was his brother Aaron. Jesus has this prophetic nature, but according to his followers, so did his brother James... Shamanism is passed from father to son in almost every religious tradition. The fascinating thing about mental illness is that it’s also hereditary.


At the visitors’ center, someone tells Kevin he can help with his situation. Does he knows he’s a shaman?

I can’t imagine that in this post-Departure world Kevin is the only person who’s having this kind of experience … Holy Wayne was a really fascinating character because there was so much about him that was compromised, and yet whatever he was doing was actually working. People were dramatically affected by his hugs. Was he a charlatan, or did he have some kind of spiritual abilities? Isaac, the psychic, is example. This ability suddenly came to him. Is he a fraud, or is what happened in the Departure so earth-shattering that it created this psychic shift where people are spiritually transformed?

Or people of spiritual stature, we tend to see them as needing to be pure. That hugging dude could have had something special AND was on some bullshit at the same time. Also, do we believe the son having those powers now? And with the wife calling up looking for said son does that mean that her fight against the smokers continues to fail?

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>Or people of spiritual stature, we tend to see them as
>needing to be pure. That hugging dude could have had something
>special AND was on some bullshit at the same time. Also, do we
>believe the son having those powers now? And with the wife
>calling up looking for said son does that mean that her fight
>against the smokers continues to fail?

Oh that's interesting
Esp since I'm also watching black Jesus
Where's Janey all of this got really really interesting w regards to theology
~~~~
When you are born, you cry, and the world rejoices. Live so that when you die, you rejoice, and the world cries.
~~~~
You cannot hate people for their own good.

The scene between Nora and Erika was so heavy. I loved it. Let's get this straight, I dislike Nora and the black husband. I want them both to disappear. I loved the story Erika told...that now explains the bird. I wonder what the back story is between her and the old man in the trailer. Her dad? Her uncle? Did he molest her or is he the reason why she's deaf? (I'm thinking the latter). But he...he knows things and he's the key. Anyway in that scene I'm like "this explains it all. it makes sense."

In regards to kevin seeing things, we could write that off as him going crazy but then remember at the end of episode two weeks ago, the man on the tower said "hey, who's your lady friend" after he and Patti were talking in the street. I don't think he's crazy.

Although it's natural for him to think so, especially with having to cope with his Dad's fate. After rewatching the last ten minutes of the episode it also makes me think... how reliable is Patti Levin? She seems to know things (his phone, the girls' fate, telling Kevin not to get in the car with John) but it's clear she has her own agenda, which may or may not coincide with what's actually best for Kevin. Did she tell Kevin not to get in the car because she wanted John Murphy (or Isaac) dead? If Kevin didn't intervene between John and Isaac, then the confrontation between John and Matt may never have happened.

Does John represent the antithesis of Patti's Guilty Remnant ideals? If he believes miracles don't happen in Miracle, then this could be interpreted as being at odds with the GR's philosophy to never forget.... and everything is just a matter of time.



And going back to Nora and Erika.... one thing that isn't clear is why Erika wanted to leave John in the first place. There really is nothing in the first several episodes to indicate that she's necessarily unhappy with him. Her disposition towards his behavior seems to mirror that of the town: an awkward acceptance ultimately best for Jarden so everyone turns the other cheek. Maybe she works on his victims as a form of catharsis, but there's gotta be something deeper in their relationship that would compel her to leave him (and her children!).

So many layers... I'm anticipating this show more than anything else right now. Like phenompyrus is saying, I'm stuck on this show far more than I expected to be.

this season is certainly one of those you have to go back and rewatch certain scenes.

in regards to Erika and John when she was helping Isaac, I got the feeling that she felt a bit defeated. She's telling his victims to let her husband slide but I felt like she was just tired of it all...in my mind I was wondering how was she dealing with it so for me to hear she was planning on leaving him, I wasn't shocked at all. John has a bad temperament. And its not just what he does at work but in general, his disposition seems off.

I gotta be honest tho, I'm surprised they are delving this deep into a religious/mystical explanation (In regards to the lens theory). As soon as the doctor told Nora that the demon Azrael was using her I had to turn off the show. I was like OH HELL NO ARE YOU KIDDING. and i'm actually a fan of that kind of thing...but literally the book offered no explanation so I guess he had to develop a theory.

SIDENOTE: WHen Nora tells Erika her logic is all over the place, I got so pissed. Erika was succinct and concise when she told her story. Her story made the MOST sense in trying to figure out why her daughter disappeared. Nora just didn't want to believe that she could be the reason her family disappeared. She was in denial.

The dangling threads, the acting, the new setting, the new mysteries, all of it is just really, really fantastic.

Naturally, Damon Lindelof's name always makes me worry that things will eventually head south as the story approaches the end, but right now, this show is the best one I'm watching on TV, hands down.

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>Naturally, Damon Lindelof's name always makes me worry that
>things will eventually head south as the story approaches the
>end

... but this keeps lingering in my head too. Before season 1, I read a really interesting longform about Lindelof's deep and long term struggles with the backlash from Lost's ending. How a show so impressively multithreaded fell apart at the end with so many unanswered questions. Was that partially a function of being on network television, where season renewals are based almost solely on ratings? He might have been compelled to ramp up the drama each week without having a clear eye on the endgame. Contrast it with something like Breaking Bad, where Gilligan knew he'd get a fixed amount of seasons so he could weave the threads towards a logical conclusion. I could be misinterpreting this though.

In any case, that article actually made The Leftovers more compelling to me because it was a show with fixed material in an intriguing world. It sounded like Lindelof learned a lot from Lost and was determined not to repeat the same mistakes. And once those last few episodes blew my mind, it confirmed what I hoped for going into the first episode.

But now Lindelof is in uncharted territory, and despite the utter excellence so far this season, his reputation still precedes him. Ratings for this season are nowhere near last season, so I'm hoping the specter of Lost's structure isn't looming over The Leftovers as well. Granted, this season released in fall (vs S1 in the summer) and is up against really stiff competition, plus there was an uptick the last few weeks. I'm hoping to get at least a couple more seasons out of this show but the prospect of Lindelof painting himself into a corner looms heavy still.

Are still in the back of my mind.

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You are messing up big time. Another amazing episode. Crazy or confused. The show did a good job of making a case for both sides. Great television.

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I need time to process. I'm glad there's three more episodes because I think Season 1 only had eight.

And totally agreed. Such deft storytelling in exploring both sides. This is an amazing show.

1. How are you gonna go along with your crazy, child molesting grandpa's plan b? I guess he's gonna bury the body like Erica buries the birds.

2. Jill said she wanted fuck and he says no?! C'mon yo

------------------------------------------
America from 9:00 on: https://youtu.be/GUwLCQU10KQ

let him be Christian and hold onto his beliefs because he's the ONLY reasonable person in the series.

I'm guessing his grandfather never molested him so he's not worried at all. But yeah I said the same. He gonna bury him so he can come back like a bird...

...and are not married but stick to their beliefs GREATLY.

Little niglet needs to go on ahead and raw dog that shit.

------------------------------------------
America from 9:00 on: https://youtu.be/GUwLCQU10KQ

he does'nt need NONE of that in his life! He got enough crazy to deal with...and it might not even be about his religion, maybe he legit feels like he wants to wait. he may not even be a virgin but he know how crazy the dick drives ladies.

and then dip out.

------------------------------------------
America from 9:00 on: https://youtu.be/GUwLCQU10KQ

That dude was weird as fuck.

------------------------------------------
America from 9:00 on: https://youtu.be/GUwLCQU10KQ

Didn't Patti keep asking him why he didn't tell his family and as soon as he told his family she's like nah you shouldn't have done that...then she's like yeah take the medicine...then she's like NAH. So I think he needs to start doing the OPPOSITE of what she initially says because she's being a fucking jerk to him!

And that brings me to the question of why Virgil just let Kevin die! What did Kevin do? Does he believe Kevin brought evil to the town (actually it was Nora because I totally believe everything is her fault). Fam just dead ass let Kevin die and killed himself. Did Michael KNOW that's what Virgil was going to do? JEEZ.

I'm glad we finally get an explanation of what happened to Kevin in the first episode but now I think Laurie is right...Patti didn't tell him about him going to see Virgil because she didn't know, because she wasn't there...it does seem like her awareness of things is limited to things in his subconcious. But at the same time, old crazy dude at the square did ask "who's your lady friend..."


I'm genuinely surprised at how much better this season is than last.

NOTE: I am entertaining the idea that Virgil killed himself to be Kevin's guide. How else would he be able to go there to help him fight his adversary.

I didn't even think about Grandpa killing himself to be his guide. WOW. How did I miss that? I was just so stuck on the death aspect I didn't see the purpose. Man I'm loving this show. Good looking Steph.

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squeezed out the whole epi pen (well epi syringe). If he is the guide, that part really didn't make sense, because wouldn't Michael use it to bring him back? Maybe that was just a red herring. It's not necessary for Kevin to get back.

that Virgil has his own agenda. Maybe *he* doesn't want Kevin to be revived?

I'm hoping next episode will be one hour of a cage match in hell between Patti & Kevin with Virgil shouting out fighting tips while a death metal version of Where Is My Mind loops.

Knowing this show though, next week will be an episode solely from Tom, Liv Tyler, Tower Man, or Lily's POV and we won't see what happened to Kevin until episode 9.

"You will see Kevin, or parts of Kevin, possibly memories of Kevin, Kevin's jogging pants, Maybe another character named Kevin, an adolescent game entitled 'Seven Minutes in Kevin,' and/or, but not necessarily literally, the ACTUAL Kevin, again. And soon. #GlennLives"

http://www.hitfix.com/whats-alan-watching/review-the-leftovers-a-most-powerful-adversary-where-is-my-mind

However, he did sort of get a bit of a send-off throughout the episode. He had some kind of farewell with every character who would need to see him before he dies.

Maybe he goes away and becomes the main suspect in the disappearance of the girls? Still can't believe Grandpa went out like that. I really wanted to dive into his character.

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Virgil...and I'm hoping Kevin isn't really dead but we don't know...however Virgil did say he died before and was reborn so maybe...who knows but Michael (the grandson) didn't even seem shook when he saw the dead bodies. He knew exactly what he had to do...so it seems like this wasn't a strange occurrence to him.

But he stayed on his square and kept it moving. There is hope!

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I think it's safe to assume Michael knew the plan, wasn't happy about it, and was tasked with a role to play as well.

And while that ending is all the buzz right now, how great was that scene between Laurie and Kevin? I haven't really been interested in Tommy's arc so much, but the revelation that Tommy may (or may not be) lying about Holy Wayne's transfer of power hit me like a ton of (small) bricks. I hope we get some background scenes on what happened there too.


(Sidenote: whoever does the editing for the preview scenes did a great job at swerving us for the episode. The previews showing Patti saying "I'm glad you finally asked" and the showdown between her and Kevin were so foreboding, yet we saw both in like the first 10 mins and each scene was nothing like we expected. Seriously... this could be the best drama on TV right now).

>"You will see Kevin, or parts of Kevin, possibly memories of
>Kevin, Kevin's jogging pants, Maybe another character named
>Kevin, an adolescent game entitled 'Seven Minutes in Kevin,'
>and/or, but not necessarily literally, the ACTUAL Kevin,
>again. And soon. #GlennLives"
>
>http://www.hitfix.com/whats-alan-watching/review-the-leftovers-a-most-powerful-adversary-where-is-my-mind

Yeah that's all I got
GoT now makes it completely plausible
~~~~
When you are born, you cry, and the world rejoices. Live so that when you die, you rejoice, and the world cries.
~~~~
You cannot hate people for their own good.

So good.
So Virgil did off himself to be the guide. As soon as he said "I hope they don't catch that bird" I was like...this is it...but dude drank the water. I almost cried when he offed the bird...I'm wondering if he drank the water because he was truly thirsty OR if that was his plan all along considering he said "atonement" when Kevin asked him why he was there.

this episode was interesting...I'm glad that Kevin isn't dead. (Didn't think he was but the whole syringe thing threw me for a loop. while it was most likely a prop to make Kevin feel ok, why did he empty it out? i guess for us?)

two more episodes. very good season. I'm sad to see it end. HOWEVER is it just me or did they totally explain why the Guilty Remnant smoke and don't speak. I didn't think he'd ever tell us that.

They kinda said this before. I know his wife said they believe the world ended. I guess it's possible that this is the first time where someone has said the complete phrase "to remember that the world ended". I was more surprised that it was Kevin's reason but I immediately tied it to the GR and it made sense.

Beyond that it was another excellent episode. Kevin was kicking ass and taking names. The well scene was pretty powerful to me. I'm sad that it's almost over for this season.

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I remember being satisfied with the eventual explanation for the GR's smoking and lack of speaking. IIRC, both of those actions are motivated by a fatalist philosophy: we're all going to die, so why waste our breath? Smoking and staying mute exemplify their desire to remind everyone else that they're wasting their time (trying to move on). Incidentally, I was somewhat surprised when Laurie was asked that question in her interview and she was unable to give a satisfactory answer.

Because of this, I interpreted Kevin's response to the smoking as more personal, rather than as something GR motivated (although his answer would certainly be favorable to a member of the GR).


But yeah, really great episode. I love how they really fleshed out the "other" world with its own set of cryptic rules and logic. I'm looking forward to when someone analyzes the episode vs The Divine Comedy. (Sidenote: ballons for Mary Jamison? sad face.)

That being said, I can't wait till they get back to Jarden. So much compelling shit is going on there. These last two episodes are going to be crazy.

about silence. I don't recall them explaining that last season...while Laurie did say "to remember" before, it still didn't make sense. and it still doesn't.

But i didn't take it as "don't bother wasting your breathe" but it was about the power of silence...how uncomfortable it makes people, how insecure ppl are without knowing what's going on or what the next person is thinking, its upsetting to walk around in complete silence when people could continue to laugh, sing, or talk.

then she ends up in another world where she is being chastised for talking too much.

I completely missed Patti's "silence is power" in relation to the GR.

This is spot on:

> But i didn't take it as "don't bother wasting your breathe" but it was about the power of silence...how uncomfortable it makes people, how insecure ppl are without knowing what's going on or what the next person is thinking, its upsetting to walk around in complete silence when people could continue to laugh, sing, or talk.

There's no need to speak since it would be "wasting" breath, but the *reason* why they remain silent is because of everything you just said. One of the main things that separates humans from animals is our ability to communicate through complex language. By denying that two-way street, it creates a profound divide between individuals since one knows everything and the other knows nothing.

>So Virgil did off himself to be the guide. As soon as he said
>"I hope they don't catch that bird" I was like...this is
>it...but dude drank the water. I almost cried when he offed
>the bird...I'm wondering if he drank the water because he was
>truly thirsty OR if that was his plan all along considering he
>said "atonement" when Kevin asked him why he was there.

Interesting interpretation, I hope they explain his motivation for drinking the water but I doubt they revisit the "other" world again. I saw him drinking the water as a representation of the way he died. Like, poison is one thing, but actually blowing your brains out is on another level. Maybe Virgil was extra thirsty because he died in a more violent way?


>this episode was interesting...I'm glad that Kevin isn't dead.
>(Didn't think he was but the whole syringe thing threw me for
>a loop. while it was most likely a prop to make Kevin feel ok,
>why did he empty it out? i guess for us?)

I think it was mostly for Kevin to go along with the plan but it could have also been to prevent Michael from trying to revive Kevin too. Whether or not it had actual antidote, if Michael saw a full syringe he might have strayed from the plan and brought back Kevin from panic.

it didn't matter how you died, remember she asked Kevin if he was thirsty and he said no and the lie detector determined that was a lie!!! and he finally drank some liquor (which, in my mind, was odd. I kept thinking, wouldn't other beverages be made of the water in that world? i'm not drinking anything)

Which brings up the interesting thing about Pattie's double. She was offered water but refused to drink it..she said "never touch that stuff." so i wonder if she was aware what was happening. But ppl KEPT offering water to people so my assumption was just that everyone is thirsty in "hell."

n/m

now remember...that's the name of the Preacher's wife. The man in the other world was delivering flowers/balloons to her...

was supposed to take HER to the well. I wish he had engaged her at some point, mostly to be like "did you really wake up that one time?" or something.

But patience, it was interesting to throw that in there. We'll see what happens. Maybe she drank the water.

________________________________________________
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I took it to mean she's not long for this world. Maybe she dies during childbirth. Who knows. I can't wait to see how they rock out the last two episodes. I really want to get someone else into this show just so I can watch it all again. I'm loving the whole affair.

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I was wondering if her comatose state is really a result of her being stuck in this other world. maybe she's brain dead? who knows but I'm pretty sure i am going back to rewatch this season.

http://tvline.com/2015/11/22/the-leftovers-kevin-purgatory-season-2-damon-lindelof/

The Leftovers: Damon Lindelof Explains Sunday's Bats$%t Crazy Hour
By Michael Ausiello / November 22 2015, 7:06 PM PST

Roughly 15 minutes into Sunday’s The Leftovers, Virgil offered Kevin the following piece of advice about his guardian angel from hell Patti: “You’ve got to stop thinking in straight lines. Because she surely will not be. She thinks in spirals and helixes and zigzags and circles.”

The wise old man may as well have been referring to the breathtaking, audacious, innovative hour itself, which found Justin Theroux’s deceased leading man on some bizarro purgatory-ish adventure (click here for a full recap of the episode).
Series co-creator Damon Lindelof — who has been in radio silence mode for much of the season — briefly lifted his self-imposed gag order Sunday night, sharing with TVLine the following statement about “International Assassin”:

“The Leftovers is a show based on a supernatural premise and although we want the storytelling to feel as grounded as possible, the presence of Patti after her death flirts directly with that premise. We knew when we designed the season that Kevin’s main thrust this year would be ridding himself of Patti and this episode was the culmination of that story. There are those who don’t like it when the show gets “too weird” and they are likely to assume this episode was all in Kevin’s head… an ongoing fever dream catalyzed by whatever Virgil made him drink… A further manifestation of the psychosis Laurie diagnosed.

There are also those who will assign a supernatural interpretation to this episode. “Goddammit, here goes Lindelof with the Purgatory nonsense again… WE GET IT, ASSHOLE!”

It is not our place to explain ourselves nor clarify this debate. The show has to speak for itself on this front. I make no apologies for this as Tom, the writers and I have always been upfront about the storytelling on this show being purposefully ambiguous… The Leftovers isn’t about answers, it’s about the frustration of not getting them and the emotional state that drives our characters to. Like throwing rocks through the windows of people we feel sympathy for or drinking poison.
All that said, our intention here was simple. To try to do something different. And unexpected. And above all, emotional.
And regardless of what people think of the writing and/or storytelling, I hope they can appreciate the incredible performances from Justin and Ann who committed to this fully and fearlessly… I am proud and honored to be the beneficiary of their immense talents.

Oh. And there’s still two episodes to go.”

https://youtu.be/yhihUgjHw3s?t=984

interesting. This was just on last week. HA lol.

*Jeopardy is filmed way in advance. I'm wondering if the writers perhaps saw this episode, and put it in...just to fuck with us.

http://www.indiewire.com/article/the-leftovers-tom-perrotta-on-taking-kevin-to-the-other-side-and-if-there-will-be-a-season-3-20151128

In particular these questions:

Another talking point that is constantly discussed and will be discussed when it comes to "The Leftovers" is that line between questions that need to be resolved and questions that don't. And that line seems pretty clear to me. I don't know exactly how to talk about it or how I could find it — which is why I'm asking you — but the departure and what happened there is clearly a question that's not going to be answered. But when it comes to Kevin's sanity it felt pertinent enough that I expected to learn something final about that — like what we got in Episode 8. How do you determine what answers are the answers that need to be provided, versus what questions you're more comfortable leaving open-ended?

If I could tell you the one thing that surprised me the most last year was how angry some people got when we said, "Look, the cause of the Departure will never be answered." Either the show is actually about living with this unknown mystery — which to me it is anyway, it's just to me we kind of covered it with yellow highlighter — but I was surprised that people were angry. And one of the things that's been fun this year is we have a few goofy answers, where I guess if this were more of a genre show, the artifact that Kevin has to find would be the solution to the mystery. So that's been fun. But I would say Kevin's sanity is not a question to be answered. It's a thing. It's a process that he lives with, and I think the question for the show is, again, the question of framework. If Kevin lived in Laurie's rational, therapeutic world, he's insane — there's no question about it. She doesn't even ask the question of, "Kevin, are you possibly insane?" She just goes, "You're a very sick man." Because in that framework, Kevin is a very sick man. But if you suddenly say, "No. Kevin has the power to move into realms that are closed off to other people. someone like maybe his father." If you accepted that there is a reasonable way to talk about his experience, then it may not be the most useful thing to say Kevin is insane.

And kind of connected to that, one of the questions that I was very curious about relates to two weeks ago when Nora actually left Kevin. He woke up and she was gone. That was one of the things that really caught me off guard. It didn't seem like something she would necessarily do just because of what he said. And obviously I don't want anything spoiled for the final episodes, but are we going to explore more of her rationale behind leaving him?

You should just keep watching. I think one of the things with "The Leftovers" is that often we get around to answering questions . Like in this case in the question of Episode 8, we answered the question of "Is Kevin dead?" very quickly. And sometimes there's a big lag between when a question gets posed and when a question gets answered. For instance, you see Erica unearth that box in Episode 1 and it's not til Episode 6 that you find out what that was all about. So I think that we're very aware that there's certain questions that are hanging out there and will sort of will hopefully be answered in time.