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Subject: "Show Me A Hero (David Simon HBO miniseries)" Previous topic | Next topic
j0510
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"Show Me A Hero (David Simon HBO miniseries)"
Wed Aug-12-15 09:52 AM by Frank Longo

  

          

http://www.baltimoresun.com/entertainment/tv/z-on-tv-blog/bal-hbo-miniseries-david-simon-show-me-hero-20140730,0,1223547.story

HBO picks up six-hour miniseries on race from David Simon
By David Zurawik, The Baltimore Sun
8:18 p.m. EDT, July 30, 2014


The long relationship between HBO and David Simon will continue with the Baltimore filmmaker co-writing and producing "Show Me a Hero," a six-hour miniseries, for the premium cable channel.

Based on the non-fiction book of the same title by Lisa Belkin, the series that explores race relations in the 1980s and '90s in Yonkers, N.Y., will star Oscar Isaac and Catherine Keener.

Simon said in an email to The Sun that the miniseries will be filmed in Yonkers, because that's where the real-life events it covers took place. He said filming will start there Oct. 1.

"In an America generations removed from the greatest civil rights struggle of the 1960s, the young mayor of a mid-sized American city is faced with a federal court order that says he must build a small number of low-income housing units in the white neighborhoods of the town," HBO's description of the miniseries said.

"His attempt to do so tears the entire city apart, paralyzes the entire municipal government and, ultimately, destroys the mayor and his political future." ... 'Show me a Hero' explores notions of home, race and community through the lives of elected officials, bureaucrats, activists and ordinary citizens of Yonkers, N.Y."

Serving alongside Simon as executive producer and writer on the series will be Bill Zorzi, who, like Simon, was a reporter at the Baltimore Sun. Zorzi also worked on "The Wire" with Simon as a writer and producer.

Gail Mutrux and Nina Noble will also be executive producers, along with Paul Haggis, who will also direct.

Isaac will play Mayor Nick Wasicsko, while Keener will portray Mary Dorman, an East Yonkers home owner.

The series will be produced under the banner of Simon's production company, "A Blown Deadline Production."

In a November interview with The Sun as his series "Treme" finished production, Simon said he might be leaving HBO -- and possibly TV production altogether.

"I don�t know," Simon said in that interview. "I turned in work on a couple of series and a miniseries to HBO to finish out my development deal, and they'll either want to make some of it or they won't. It�s kind of up to them.

"I have to say," he continued, "I�m sort of at this point wondering if I'm not a strange fit for television. And �The Wire� was sort of fire in the bottle, because nobody watched 'The Wire' when it was on the air. And nobody watched 'Generation Kill.' And nobody watched 'Treme.'"

It's good to see David Simon and HBO are still in business together.

  

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Topic Outline
Subject Author Message Date ID
Let us get amongst it
Aug 03rd 2014
1
this should be good
Aug 04th 2014
2
he keeps hittin' them out the park
Aug 04th 2014
3
You had me at Paul Haggis!
Aug 05th 2014
4
I'll be watching.
Aug 05th 2014
5
Excited for this.
Aug 07th 2014
6
"Paul Haggis to direct" just chopped my interest in half
Aug 07th 2014
7
Paul Haggis is a huge red flag
Aug 07th 2014
8
"big names" attached are how these things get made
Aug 20th 2014
10
3 Chicago actors cast in 'Wire' creator's newest project for HBO (swipe)
Aug 19th 2014
9
Jim Belushi?
Aug 20th 2014
11
Winona Ryder, Alfred Molina and Shane from The Walking Dead are in
Aug 21st 2014
12
When are the Black people going to be cast
Aug 27th 2014
13
Would be more interested in Spike's take on this. Or Scorcese
Aug 28th 2014
14
Hey y'all, some of the Black people got cast (SWIPE)
Sep 03rd 2014
15
Read the book over the holidays. I can see why Simon was drawn to it
Jan 09th 2015
16
^^^Up because it's premeiring this Sunday
Aug 11th 2015
17
Sepinwall's LENGTHY interview with Haggis (LINK):
Aug 11th 2015
18
enjoyed the first installment
Aug 16th 2015
19
i wanna see oscar isaac do his thing over several seasons of a show.
Aug 17th 2015
20
With Star Wars' impending release, that might be off the table for a whi...
Aug 17th 2015
22
hrm i might be in
Aug 17th 2015
21
I loved the first two parts.
Aug 18th 2015
23
definitely plan on bingeing this once the whole thing is available.
Aug 18th 2015
24
LOL. You know Da Gawd David Simon hates that binge-ing shit, right?
Aug 19th 2015
25
      ha.
Aug 19th 2015
26
not sure if 6 hours is enough time
Aug 24th 2015
27
It seems like it's him and (gradually) Catherine Keener's character
Aug 24th 2015
28
Yeah, they've made it a point to show the disconnect
Aug 24th 2015
30
I really only know the stories...
Aug 25th 2015
32
Is Bruce Springsteen a producer on this?
Aug 24th 2015
29
Feels like it...
Aug 25th 2015
31
Show Me a Boss: The Use of Bruce Springsteen in ‘Show Me a Hero’
Aug 27th 2015
33
for anyone who read the book (hood?)
Aug 31st 2015
34
I vaguely remember something people/a person showing up in KKK shirts
Sep 02nd 2015
36
I wound up really enjoying it
Sep 01st 2015
35
Billie was pretty frustrating to me
Sep 02nd 2015
38
      RE: Billie was pretty frustrating to me
Sep 02nd 2015
39
           abortion never seems to make for good tv/film
Sep 02nd 2015
40
I feel wrong saying I "enjoyed" this
Sep 02nd 2015
37
another question RE: Vinnie
Sep 02nd 2015
41
another question RE: Vinnie
Sep 02nd 2015
42
his reaction made me think it was made up
Sep 02nd 2015
43

CherNic
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Sun Aug-03-14 07:12 PM

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1. "Let us get amongst it"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

  

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makaveli
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2. "this should be good"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

any time i hear his name involved in something, i'm interested.

“So back we go to these questions — friendship, character… ethics.”

  

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boyd
Member since May 15th 2006
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Mon Aug-04-14 11:52 PM

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3. "he keeps hittin' them out the park"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

  

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okaycomputer
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Tue Aug-05-14 08:04 PM

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4. "You had me at Paul Haggis!"
In response to Reply # 0


          

  

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Hitokiri
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Tue Aug-05-14 08:42 PM

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5. "I'll be watching."
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

Too bad he sounds so defeated.

--

"You can't beat white people. You can only knock them out."

  

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bski
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Thu Aug-07-14 12:42 AM

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6. "Excited for this."
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

Davis & Keener are great and naturally, I'll watch anything with David Simon's name attached.

Btw, finally got around to checking out Generation Kill and really dug it.




http://twitter.com/collazo

  

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Mynoriti
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Thu Aug-07-14 12:44 AM

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7. ""Paul Haggis to direct" just chopped my interest in half"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

i'll still give it a shot though.

  

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astralblak
Member since Apr 05th 2007
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Thu Aug-07-14 01:22 PM

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8. "Paul Haggis is a huge red flag"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

.

  

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Madvillain 626
Member since Apr 25th 2006
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Wed Aug-20-14 12:29 AM

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10. ""big names" attached are how these things get made"
In response to Reply # 8


  

          

-------------------------------
If life is stupendous one cannot also demand that it should be easy. - Robert Musil

  

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j0510
Member since Feb 02nd 2012
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Tue Aug-19-14 10:35 PM

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9. "3 Chicago actors cast in 'Wire' creator's newest project for HBO (swipe)"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

http://www.chicagotribune.com/entertainment/ct-hbo-miniseries-chicago-actors-column.html

3 Chicago actors cast in 'Wire' creator's newest project for HBO
Nina Metz
CHICAGO TRIBUNE
August 18, 2014, 12:46 PM

A trio of actors with deep Chicago ties have been added to the cast of the HBO mini-series "Show Me a Hero," the latest project from David Simon.

Longtime TV actor Jim Belushi, Steppenwolf co-founder Terry Kinney and Lakeview native and Columbia College alum Michael Stahl-David ("Cloverfield") join the ensemble of the six-hour series about a young mayor, his court-mandated attempts to desegregate low-income housing and the pushback he encountered on both sides of the racial divide.

The mini-series is based on the non-fiction book also titled "Show Me a Hero," and it will be directed by Paul Haggis ("Crash"). Simon is best known for his critically lauded HBO series "The Wire." Oscar Isaac ("Inside Llewyn Davis") will play the mayor, with Catherine Keener as an embattled homeowner.

  

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Marauder21
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Wed Aug-20-14 10:17 AM

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11. "Jim Belushi?"
In response to Reply # 9


  

          

------

12 play and 12 planets are enlighten for all the Aliens to Party and free those on the Sex Planet-maxxx

XBL: trkc21
Twitter: @tyrcasey

  

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Marauder21
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Thu Aug-21-14 02:03 PM

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12. "Winona Ryder, Alfred Molina and Shane from The Walking Dead are in"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

Nutso cast

------

12 play and 12 planets are enlighten for all the Aliens to Party and free those on the Sex Planet-maxxx

XBL: trkc21
Twitter: @tyrcasey

  

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SammyJankis
Member since Jan 29th 2003
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Wed Aug-27-14 04:12 PM

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13. "When are the Black people going to be cast"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

He gotta have Clarke Peters and Wendell Pierce in it.

I'd like to see J.D. Williams get some work on HBO again.

And while they're at it bring back Felica "Snoop" Pearson

___

And who are you; the proud lord said, that I must bow so low?

www.twitter.com/JayTeeDee

www.juwandickerson.com

  

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spirit
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Thu Aug-28-14 09:22 AM

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14. "Would be more interested in Spike's take on this. Or Scorcese"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

Never felt like Treme authentically captured New Orleans. I know Baltimoreans who don't think "The Wire" authentically captured Baltimore. Not terribly interested in an inauthentic take on Yonkers. I'd like to see a native New Yorker direct this (yes, I know Yonkers isn't part of NYC proper).



Peace,

Spirit (Alan)
http://wutangbook.com

  

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SammyJankis
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Wed Sep-03-14 01:03 PM

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15. "Hey y'all, some of the Black people got cast (SWIPE)"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

http://blogs.indiewire.com/shadowandact/latanya-richardson-jackson-natalie-paul-clarke-peters-join-ensemble-cast-of-hbos-low-income-housing-debate-drama-20140903

LaTanya Richardson Jackson, Natalie Paul, Clarke Peters Join Cast of HBO's Low-Income Housing Debate Drama

by Tambay A. Obenson
September 3, 2014 10:53 AM


LaTanya Richardson Jackson, Natalie Paul, Clarke Peters and Daniel Stern have joined the cast of HBO’s miniseries "Show Me A Hero" from "The Wire" creator David Simon, which is based on the nonfiction book by Lisa Belkin of the same name.

The 6-hour miniseries will tackle the prejudices, myths, and heated emotions stirred by the public housing debate, with a landmark case at its core. The short story goes, in 1988, when a federal judge ordered the city of Yonkers, New York, to integrate more thoroughly its low-income housing throughout the city, it set off a bitter dispute that would consume the town for the next five years. Among those caught in the controversy was the city's 28-year-old mayor, Nicholas Wasicsko, who had used the issue to his advantage during his campaign and found that he would never be able to escape it, either during or after his administration.

Oscar Isaac will star in the miniseries, which also counts Catherine Keener, James Belushi, Terry Kinney, Michael Stahl-David, Winona Ryder, Alfred Molina, and Jon Bernthal amongst its key cast.

Paul Haggis ("Crash") will direct the miniseries, based on a script by William F. Zorzi, a writer on "The Wire."

Per Deadline, LaTanya Richardson Jackson will play Norma O’Neal, the stoic, hardworking home health aide who has struggled to raise a family in Yonkers’ worst projects, even as her own health fails her. Natalie Paul will play Doreen Henderson, a young woman born in Yonkers public housing but raised in the suburbs, is drawn back to the projects, where her life spirals out of control. And Clarke Peters will play Robert Mayhawk, the consultant hired to help educate tenants bound for the townhouses about life in their new neighborhood.

___

And who are you; the proud lord said, that I must bow so low?

www.twitter.com/JayTeeDee

www.juwandickerson.com

  

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mrhood75
Member since Dec 06th 2004
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Fri Jan-09-15 02:13 PM

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16. "Read the book over the holidays. I can see why Simon was drawn to it"
In response to Reply # 0
Fri Jan-09-15 02:15 PM by mrhood75

  

          

It's a really good and very interesting book, but it's going to difficult to make it compelling TV. It's all city council meetings and community meetings and neighborhood organization and backroom meetings and urban planning philosophies.

I used to be a community news reporter in a former life, so I found it all fascinating. And it's definitely very relevant to life in America today (oddly enough, I'd equate this fight to the recent fight over healthcare).

So yeah, I trust most everyone involved (the big question-mark is obviously Haggis), but kudos if they know a way to make this film-able. Oh, and it'll get worse rating than Treme.

-----------------

www.albumism.com

Checkin' Our Style, Return To Zero:

https://www.mixcloud.com/returntozero/

  

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mrhood75
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Tue Aug-11-15 01:30 PM

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17. "^^^Up because it's premeiring this Sunday"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

Buzz seems to be pretty good. Hey, it's Simon.

-----------------

www.albumism.com

Checkin' Our Style, Return To Zero:

https://www.mixcloud.com/returntozero/

  

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mrhood75
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Tue Aug-11-15 01:32 PM

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18. "Sepinwall's LENGTHY interview with Haggis (LINK):"
In response to Reply # 0
Tue Aug-11-15 01:49 PM by mrhood75

  

          

It's too long to swipe, but it's long and far-ranging. It covers everything from him not watching the Sopranos ("I'm and small and petty man") to his thoughts on "Crash" winning the Oscar (even he says it didn't deserve it).

http://www.hitfix.com/whats-alan-watching/show-me-a-hero-director-paul-haggis-on-oscars-tv-and-his-love-of-the-wire/

-----------------

www.albumism.com

Checkin' Our Style, Return To Zero:

https://www.mixcloud.com/returntozero/

  

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Mynoriti
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19. "enjoyed the first installment"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

once i got past the initial, "Hey it's Levy! and brotha Mouzone, and Orlando!"

The cast is fantastic. The story is interesting enough. My main concern going in was the heavy hand of Paul Haggis, but, so far so good.

I'm all in.

  

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tingum
Member since Apr 07th 2007
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Mon Aug-17-15 08:14 AM

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20. "i wanna see oscar isaac do his thing over several seasons of a show."
In response to Reply # 0
Mon Aug-17-15 08:16 AM by tingum

  

          

any show.
dude has iconic role written all over him.

-----

god blessin all the trap niggas.

  

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mrhood75
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22. "With Star Wars' impending release, that might be off the table for a whi..."
In response to Reply # 20


  

          

-----------------

www.albumism.com

Checkin' Our Style, Return To Zero:

https://www.mixcloud.com/returntozero/

  

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lfresh
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Mon Aug-17-15 11:34 AM

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21. "hrm i might be in"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          


~~~~
When you are born, you cry, and the world rejoices. Live so that when you die, you rejoice, and the world cries.
~~~~
You cannot hate people for their own good.

  

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dgonsh
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Tue Aug-18-15 07:47 PM

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23. "I loved the first two parts. "
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

I knew Haggis was behind it and read reviews from many trusted critics putting the Haggis fears at bay, so I was in.

During the first part, my gf said "is this gonna turn into "Crash" and I laughed in my own head without letting on. When the credits aired at the end of part II, she said "Paul Haggis?! NOW I DONT KNOW WHAT TO FEEL! Do you promise this isn't gonna be Crash?" and I honestly went *\_(ツ)_/¯*

********************************************************************




"I *always* quote myself. I'm the only reliable source on *most* subjects" - OKP's First Lady of Knowledge, Janey

  

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dula dibiasi
Member since Apr 05th 2004
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Tue Aug-18-15 08:36 PM

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24. "definitely plan on bingeing this once the whole thing is available."
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

isaac's almost at auto-watch status for me.

___

it is a capital mistake to theorize before one has data. insensibly one begins to twist facts to suit theories, instead of theories to suit facts. - sherlock holmes

  

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mrhood75
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Wed Aug-19-15 12:20 PM

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25. "LOL. You know Da Gawd David Simon hates that binge-ing shit, right?"
In response to Reply # 24


  

          

I imagine it probably annoys him that they're showing it in two-hour blocks over three weeks.

But on the real, the eps do stand up on their own as individual watches.

-----------------

www.albumism.com

Checkin' Our Style, Return To Zero:

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dula dibiasi
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26. "ha."
In response to Reply # 25


  

          

i just can't do the week-to-week thing anymore. i very very rarely watch tv shows like that nowadays.

___

it is a capital mistake to theorize before one has data. insensibly one begins to twist facts to suit theories, instead of theories to suit facts. - sherlock holmes

  

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Mynoriti
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Mon Aug-24-15 02:50 AM

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27. "not sure if 6 hours is enough time"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

lots of good stuff here but i don't feel like characters outside of Wascisco are being given enough time to feel invested in them.



  

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Marauder21
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Mon Aug-24-15 08:48 AM

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28. "It seems like it's him and (gradually) Catherine Keener's character"
In response to Reply # 27


  

          

Are getting the most shine.

I do love how they're showing Waysickko (I know I fucked up the spelling) as a dude trying to be practical caught up in this shitstorm. He's not driven by ideology (he honestly doesn't even seem to give that much of a shit about the people who need the housing one way or the other.)

------

12 play and 12 planets are enlighten for all the Aliens to Party and free those on the Sex Planet-maxxx

XBL: trkc21
Twitter: @tyrcasey

  

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Mynoriti
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Mon Aug-24-15 03:41 PM

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30. "Yeah, they've made it a point to show the disconnect"
In response to Reply # 28


  

          

Even the lawyers and do-gooder types have no real interaction with the people they say want to help. and even though Wascisco now feels he's on the right side of things, it's still pretty abstract.

Meanwhile the residents with the exception of the angry white mob, have no interest in the bullshit surrounding public policy, even though it affects them.

  

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gmltheone
Member since Jun 11th 2003
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Tue Aug-25-15 08:39 AM

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32. "I really only know the stories..."
In response to Reply # 27


  

          

The names haven't registered. Other than the politicos. And that's because they have name plates.

Do love the way they've slowly stripped away the BS "property values" stuff episode by episode.
----------------------------
Same as it ever was!

  

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Marauder21
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Mon Aug-24-15 09:48 AM

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29. "Is Bruce Springsteen a producer on this?"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

------

12 play and 12 planets are enlighten for all the Aliens to Party and free those on the Sex Planet-maxxx

XBL: trkc21
Twitter: @tyrcasey

  

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gmltheone
Member since Jun 11th 2003
8564 posts
Tue Aug-25-15 08:37 AM

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31. "Feels like it..."
In response to Reply # 29


  

          

Guess we'll get a compilation soundtrack.


----------------------------
Same as it ever was!

  

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wrecknoble
Member since Mar 15th 2005
2276 posts
Thu Aug-27-15 05:40 PM

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33. "Show Me a Boss: The Use of Bruce Springsteen in ‘Show Me a Hero’"
In response to Reply # 29


  

          

there's also a Spotify playlist called "Show Me A Springsteen" included at the end of the article itself

http://grantland.com/hollywood-prospectus/show-me-a-boss-the-use-of-bruce-springsteen-in-show-me-a-hero/

Show Me a Boss: The Use of Bruce Springsteen in ‘Show Me a Hero’
by Chris Ryan

When you’re watching a David Simon show, you’re often facing the music, but you have to wait until the end of the season to hear the song. Music comes out of car windows, is practiced by musicians, is sung a cappella by soldiers (shout-out to James Ransone’s version of Avril Lavigne’s “Complicated” in Generation Kill). For the most part, the sounds you hear in The Wire, The Corner, Generation Kill, and even a show as music-obsessed as Treme are diegetic — sounds that are sourced on the screen. They come from instruments, car radios, singing characters, but they are rooted in reality, as is much of Simon’s work.

These shows are largely about process. The process of being a cop, or a criminal, or a chef, or a musician, or a soldier. The shows take an almost profound pleasure in presenting the grind of life — the paperwork, commutes, mundane disappointments, and intraoffice squabbles of work; the feeding, cleaning, and supporting of family at home. When an emotional moment hits — frankly, when something television-y happens — it’s like a sledgehammer. It feels earned.

The same goes for Simon’s non-diegetic use of music. Typically, at the end of a season finale, almighty realism is dropped so … well, so we can hear a really good song, whether it’s Steve Earle’s “I Feel Alright,” Paul Weller’s version of “I Walk on Gilded Splinters,” or Johnny Cash’s “The Man Comes Around.” These tracks might have similar thematic underpinnings to the seasons they are capping, but usually, they just sound real good over a series of images.

Simon’s latest effort, the six-part miniseries Show Me a Hero, is a departure. After the retching and the beeps of a pager of the first scene, Bruce Springsteen’s “Gave It a Name” is the first thing we hear in this show. Taken from Springsteen’s Tracks boxed set, “Gave It a Name” was recorded in the early ’90s during the Human Touch sessions but was not included on the LP. It’s got a Lou Reed vibe — Springsteen singing over a pretty chord progression — and a biblical theme, connecting the evil that men do from Cain and Abel to modern domestic violence.

As “Gave It a Name” plays, we see a series of juxtaposed images: public housing high-rises, kids playing basketball in playgrounds or riding Big Wheels past suburban lawns, a flowing river, row houses with flags waving in the breeze. The images feel immense and intimate. So does the show.

There have been eight Springsteen songs used in the first four episodes of Show Me a Hero, and there are apparently four more in the final two installments, which air Sunday night. Paul Haggis, the director of the series, told Indiewire that the creative minds behind the show were looking for a “musical identity” for Show Me a Hero’s protagonist, Mayor Nick Wasicsko, played by Oscar Isaac. He is, in Haggis’s words, “a Springsteen guy.” He’s 28, living in a blue-collar town, a former cop. It would be pretty easy to say, “1980s, working-class guy … SPRINGSTEEN,” but the music serves a greater creative purpose than that.

Wasicsko is a David Simon protagonist. He is our vessel for understanding all the complicated issues of local government, housing development, desegregation, and political wrangling that are unfolding. He is new to his job, so as he learns, we learn. Isaac gives an incredibly detailed, humane, and lived-in performance, but there hasn’t been a lot of time for emotional exposition. We’re too busy with court orders and housing sites. That’s where Springsteen comes in.

Springsteen’s music isn’t just providing Wasicsko’s musical identity, it’s providing his emotional identity. When “Hungry Heart” plays in a diner, Wasicsko is discussing his professional ambition. When Wasicsko and his girlfriend, Nay Noe, move in together, “All That Heaven Will Allow” colors in their blossoming love affair. “Ramrod” and “Cadillac Ranch” provide driving momentum to his exploding (and imploding) career, and “Brilliant Disguise” hints at something darker emerging in his personal life.

Sometimes Springsteen is on the radio, sometimes it’s laid over. It never feels invasive, and it always feels right in time with the show (even when, in the case of “Gave It a Name,” it’s not exactly accurate in terms of chronology). According to Haggis, it was a postproduction decision to include these songs, but it’s hard to imagine the same show without them. These songs function as a kind of emotional shorthand — they speak when people are too busy to really talk.

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Mynoriti
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34. "for anyone who read the book (hood?)"
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was there really anyone showing up to meetings with KKK shirts on going unchecked, or was that just some Haggis shit?

either answer is believable

  

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mrhood75
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36. "I vaguely remember something people/a person showing up in KKK shirts"
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for one of the particularly combative meetings. I'll have to recheck the book to confirm.

However, I'm almost positive that the city planner/Peter Reigert's character getting socked at a council meeting was a complete invention.

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makaveli
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35. "I wound up really enjoying it"
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sad ending for the mayor and the girl who got booted from the new homes. I thought the acting was excellent. David Simon can do no wrong in my book.

“So back we go to these questions — friendship, character… ethics.”

  

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Mynoriti
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38. "Billie was pretty frustrating to me"
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mainly because i've known too many couples like that in my life. i had a hard time feeling bad for her by the time baby #3 was announced, and letting homeboy list her home when we all knew he was gonna fuck it up for her. at some point she's gotta take some responsibility. "but that's her man" wasn't really enough for me to feel for her.

Billie had the best facial expressions though.


>sad ending for the mayor and the girl who got booted from the
>new homes. I thought the acting was excellent. David Simon
>can do no wrong in my book.

  

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mrhood75
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39. "RE: Billie was pretty frustrating to me"
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I sort of chalked up the stuff in the beginning to her being young and stupid and falling for the wrong moron. You'd hope she'd have learned her lesson before having two kids with the jack-ass, but so it goes. For what it's worth, the third pregnancy wasn't her "fault," given as ol' boy admitted to poking holes in his rubbers.

For what it's worth, in the book, they make it clear that she ended up aborting the third pregnancy, because she finally figured out enough was enough. And she did it before he killed someone. I found it a little weird that they never explicitly say it, but it's implied; the last time they show her, she's leading her two kids up the stairs of the projects.

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Mynoriti
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40. "abortion never seems to make for good tv/film"
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or tends to distract, so i get why they didn't go to far with it.

i know the third was on him, but i figure by the second kid and the second jail sentence, she should kind of know better, but like you said, it's typical young dumb shit, and i've known plenty of people who've been worse in real life.

plus i think part of it was she was contrasted with Carmen and her kids getting wait listed. Though Carmen made a poor baby daddy decision herself early in the series.

i also think it was kind of the point to present that and ask the audience if she really deserves to have her family thrown out when despite Billie's flaws, she wasn't at all a bad neighbor.

that said, "but that's her man" didn't really fly with me though lol

  

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Marauder21
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37. "I feel wrong saying I "enjoyed" this"
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Because it's so damn depressing. But the final episode was so damn well done.

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Mynoriti
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41. "another question RE: Vinnie"
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it's somewhat implied that her and Wasicsco had a thing, or at least some chemistry, but when she dimed him out to his wife:

after she made the call, her assistant's use of "it's sick", and Wasisco's smooth reaction like he really didn't know what Nay was talking about made me think (at least in the context of the show) that nothing really happened.

Were they fucking?

  

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mrhood75
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42. "another question RE: Vinnie"
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>after she made the call, her assistant's use of "it's sick",
>and Wasisco's smooth reaction like he really didn't know what
>Nay was talking about made me think (at least in the context
>of the show) that nothing really happened.

That's how I took it: she made it up because she was pissed off at Nick and wanted to do something mean-spirited and fuck up his life even further.

>Were they fucking?

I'll say this: it's something that wasn't even hinted at in the book. The writer talks about her and Nick being friends and drinking buddies, but she never implies they were fucking around. There's no mention of the drunken kiss at a bar or the phone call to his wife.

Which, of course, doesn't mean it didn't happen. Zorzi and Simon have both talked about how they went back to Yonkers and tried to interview as many of the individual players as possible. Maybe they talked with Nae and/or Vinnie this time around, over 15 years after the book was published, and got new information that the original author wasn't privy too.

Honestly, I don't remember the book mentioned that Vinnie ever served on the Yonkers City Council before becoming Council President. It might be true that she did, but when I first saw it on TV, I figured they were using some dramatic license to fore-shadow copping with life after you're not re-elected.

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makaveli
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43. "his reaction made me think it was made up"
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“So back we go to these questions — friendship, character… ethics.”

  

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