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Buddy_Gilapagos
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"The Blacklist / Network Drama discussion"
Tue Sep-24-13 11:40 AM by Frank Longo

  

          

So because I've run out of cable dramas to watch I've decided to give some Network dramas a chance. I didn't realize it until recently but the only network shows I watch are comedies and lightweight some reality shows.

So I tried to check out Blacklist last night which is being hailed as the best new drama (isn't it funny how drama on TV would be action in film).

It wasn't awful but damn it was derivative. I mean cribbed heavily from Silence of the Lamb and every character or situation we have seen somewhere before (saw a lot of the Killing in the relationship between the couple).

It was also very Network Drama in the sense that visual realism just doesn't seem at all to be an aspiration. Why is every character super attractive. Do we really think the CIA headquarters looks like that? Contrast the Network depiction of locations with Cable's depiction of CIA HQ in Homeland.

Reminded me of CSI shows I occasionally catch on TV and I marvel at all the good looking detectives working in state of the art futuristic crime labs. Doesn't everyone know that people and the locations don't look anything like that in real life?

So I wonder if it's purposeful. In order to get bigger audiences, are Networks required to create high gloss pretty visuals and tell easy to follow derivative stories?

Do all the great dramas on cable TV have small audiences because they are on cable or are networks correct in passing on Sopranos, Mad Men, etc. because even if they were on network TV they would never do the numbers to sustain them?

Is it the audience or the Networks fault?



**********
"Everyone has a plan until you punch them in the face. Then they don't have a plan anymore." (c) Mike Tyson

  

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Topic Outline
Subject Author Message Date ID
I'll give blacklist a few more episodes but I was disappointed
Sep 24th 2013
1
yeah, that call was o_O
Sep 24th 2013
2
its so predictable that i'm sure the writers realized that
Sep 24th 2013
15
Oh yeah! is it really a mystery who the girls father is?
Sep 24th 2013
5
I'm getting into Scandal and liking it so far, but for the most part
Sep 24th 2013
3
Is Scandal Different?
Sep 24th 2013
4
      I feel like it's at least differrent enough from most network fare
Sep 24th 2013
25
      Scandal is horrible
Sep 24th 2013
28
      Soap operas can be cool tho. Like first season of desperate housewives
Sep 24th 2013
30
      I have no problems with soaps
Sep 24th 2013
39
      Can network TV keep up?
Sep 24th 2013
32
           I don't think any broadcast drama would reach those levels
Sep 24th 2013
40
                RE: I don't think any broadcast drama would reach those levels
Sep 25th 2013
41
      The only one I can see standing up to cable drama is "The Good Wife"
Dec 03rd 2013
67
I don't believe that the the little girl was kidnapped that easily
Sep 24th 2013
6
Or after anoucing that there would be a diversion. No one
Sep 24th 2013
11
The Blacklist is a "drama" the way that 24 is a "drama."
Sep 24th 2013
7
RE: The Blacklist is a "drama" the way that 24 is a "drama."
Sep 24th 2013
33
      Ooh, good call, re: The Good Wife. Forgot about that.
Sep 24th 2013
35
           RE: Ooh, good call, re: The Good Wife. Forgot about that.
Sep 24th 2013
37
And DC friends: what the hell zoo was that?
Sep 24th 2013
8
I really didn't want this to be the Blacklist post.
Sep 24th 2013
10
      I know, but the post was sort of turning that way.
Sep 24th 2013
13
           Why dramas don't exist on Network TV is a more worthwhile
Sep 24th 2013
16
                I don't think expanding the post's subject line is tightening the reins.
Sep 24th 2013
19
I actually enjoyed The Blacklist, mainly because of Spader
Sep 24th 2013
9
I want to know an example of strict realism on non-premium TV.
Sep 24th 2013
14
Hill Street Blues, Early Law & Order and E&R
Sep 24th 2013
17
      Hasn't it been like twenty years then? That's not a coincidence.
Sep 24th 2013
18
           ^^^
Sep 24th 2013
20
           Not conflicting statements. You've said the same thing I stated.
Sep 24th 2013
21
                Fair enough. I thought Sleepy Hollow and The Blacklist had great pilots.
Sep 24th 2013
26
                     RE: Fair enough. I thought Sleepy Hollow and The Blacklist had great pil...
Sep 24th 2013
38
I understand what you are saying and usually willing to overlook most
Sep 24th 2013
22
      But I thought in the "This season... on The Blacklist" promo at the end
Sep 24th 2013
24
Blacklist was hot.
Sep 24th 2013
12
what struck me about The Blacklist
Sep 24th 2013
23
RE: what struck me about The Blacklist
Sep 24th 2013
36
      but the shit works tho so... (link)
Sep 25th 2013
44
           RE: but the shit works tho so... (link)
Sep 25th 2013
46
spader works...
Sep 24th 2013
27
RE: spader works...
Sep 24th 2013
29
      ironside was foolish...
Sep 24th 2013
31
save for James Spader, Lennix and Diego Klattenhoff
Sep 24th 2013
34
Well SHIT, tell us how you REALLY feel about Megan Boone, lol
Sep 25th 2013
42
RE: Well SHIT, tell us how you REALLY feel about Megan Boone, lol
Sep 25th 2013
45
      wait ..wha?
Sep 30th 2013
47
           RE: wait ..wha?
Sep 30th 2013
48
she's not a good actress.
Sep 25th 2013
43
she is a horrible actress nm
Oct 01st 2013
49
Megan Boone is AWFUL
Dec 04th 2013
69
The Blacklist get a full season order
Oct 05th 2013
50
Tonight was great. Best of the season by a mile.
Oct 15th 2013
51
RE: Tonight was great. Best of the season by a mile.
Oct 15th 2013
52
I was about to say it's like Silence of the Lambs meets 24 ....
Oct 29th 2013
53
RE: Original question
Oct 29th 2013
54
another solid ep...
Oct 29th 2013
55
this aspect is so pathetic, i'm almost mad if he IS
Oct 29th 2013
56
      i don't think he's her father
Oct 30th 2013
57
           Right, I also doubt he's the father.
Oct 30th 2013
58
           it's bizarre that the FBI didn't immediately do a genetic test
Oct 30th 2013
59
           after re-watching the ep this morning...
Oct 30th 2013
60
Is this The Blacklist thread now?
Nov 27th 2013
61
RE: Is this The Blacklist thread now?
Nov 28th 2013
62
RE: The Blacklist / Network Drama discussion
Dec 03rd 2013
63
Welp, the father question is answered! Kind of!
Dec 03rd 2013
64
Very good episode but I still believe Red is her dad
Dec 03rd 2013
65
i liked this ep *spoilers*
Dec 03rd 2013
66
Early Season 2 Renewal
Dec 04th 2013
68
This show needs less dialog
Dec 04th 2013
70
LOL i hated that scene for that very reason....
Dec 04th 2013
71
Reddington ain't no joke
Jan 13th 2014
72
Reddington racked up a body count
Jan 13th 2014
73
I'm over Lizzie's husband.
Jan 20th 2014
74
i don't care at all about her marraige
Jan 21st 2014
75
Exact same thought I had
Jan 21st 2014
77
I really wanted the big reveal at this ep's end to be...
Jan 21st 2014
76
      That definitely would have been more interesting
Jan 21st 2014
78
      this show and SHIELD are alot alike
Jan 22nd 2014
79
The Hollywood Reporter update on some freshman shows
Feb 10th 2014
80
This last episode and the tail end of the previous stepped it up
Mar 19th 2014
81
omg this last episode was crazy!
Mar 20th 2014
82
shit was real last night
Mar 26th 2014
83
Wow. I thought that episode sucked
Mar 26th 2014
84
      Get out of my head!!!
Mar 26th 2014
85
           a few points
Apr 01st 2014
86
                RE: a few points
Apr 02nd 2014
88
Worst use of pop music in a show
Apr 02nd 2014
87
Post-Super Bowl slot and (eventual) move to Thursday for season 2
May 11th 2014
89
RE: Post-Super Bowl slot and (eventual) move to Thursday for season 2
May 11th 2014
90
So the father thing seems pretty clear cut at this point. (Spoilers)
May 13th 2014
91
RE: So the father thing seems pretty clear cut at this point. (Spoilers)
May 14th 2014
92
Basically.
May 14th 2014
93
I see it differently, Red's wording is very specific
May 19th 2014
94
well all this speculation fell apart
May 15th 2015
96
Awesome Season Finale.
May 14th 2015
95
I'd be curious to know how long that had all this in mind
May 19th 2015
97

calij81
Member since Jan 17th 2007
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Tue Sep-24-13 10:50 AM

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1. "I'll give blacklist a few more episodes but I was disappointed "
In response to Reply # 0


          

in the pilot.

One of my biggest gripes of last night occurred when CIA Agent Keen decides to call her husband to tell him she can't make the appointment at the adoption agency from the CIA Black Site! I don't know for sure but I would believe that 1. It is against CIA protocol to make any sort of call to anyone for any reasons while in a black site 2. Wouldn't a CIA black site block any out going calls? 3. Wasn't the black site underground so how would she get a signal?

Also, it seems fairly obvious that CIA agent Keen is dudes daughter but maybe I'm wrong.

  

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howisya
Member since Nov 09th 2002
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Tue Sep-24-13 10:59 AM

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2. "yeah, that call was o_O"
In response to Reply # 1


  

          

there were a few moments of disbelief i struggled a bit to suspend watching the pilot, but i enjoyed it. that said, i know where the OP is coming from with the critique of network dramas. i really just started watching them this year (i don't really count fringe or any sitcom teetering on dramedy), and it's fine, but i'm not bowled over or anything. as previously discussed in PTP, the creativity and edge are on cable because you can get away with more, and the people there take more chances.

  

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BrooklynWHAT
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Tue Sep-24-13 01:49 PM

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15. "its so predictable that i'm sure the writers realized that "
In response to Reply # 2


  

          

and went elsewhere.

<--- Big Baller World Order

  

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Buddy_Gilapagos
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Tue Sep-24-13 11:15 AM

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5. "Oh yeah! is it really a mystery who the girls father is?"
In response to Reply # 1


  

          

I mean It seemed obvious from the jump so I was totally expecting that it would be revealed towards the end of this ep. Since it wasn't I was thinking either a.) this show must think we are dumb if they don't think we will figure out the relationship or b.) they have got to have a bigger twist then that because this is so obvious a red herring.

**********
"Everyone has a plan until you punch them in the face. Then they don't have a plan anymore." (c) Mike Tyson

  

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Marauder21
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Tue Sep-24-13 11:03 AM

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3. "I'm getting into Scandal and liking it so far, but for the most part"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

I agree. It's really hard for me to even get excited about the idea of most network dramas nowadays.

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Buddy_Gilapagos
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Tue Sep-24-13 11:12 AM

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4. "Is Scandal Different?"
In response to Reply # 3


  

          

I know it's a phenom but is it a phenom for Network or can it stand on its own against the cable dramas?

I feel like all the people that love Scandal probably aren't among the people that watch Mad Men, Game of Thrones, etc. Totally snob opinion I know.

**********
"Everyone has a plan until you punch them in the face. Then they don't have a plan anymore." (c) Mike Tyson

  

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Marauder21
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25. "I feel like it's at least differrent enough from most network fare"
In response to Reply # 4


  

          

For comparison, the only TV dramas* that I consider must see (for me) are Breaking Bad, Mad Men, Justified, The Americans and Boardwalk Empire. I haven't got into GoT, but I know at some point I will.

Of those, I think Scandal stacks up fairly well. Not even close to BB, of course, but it's probably up there with Boardwalk and The Americans. I'd have to see more of it to see where it is in comparison to Justified, if only because each season of Justified is kinda like its own series in a way.

So it would probably be an above average cable drama.


* I was going to include American Horror Story as well, but I'm not sure if that can really be classified as a drama.

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nipsey
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28. "Scandal is horrible"
In response to Reply # 4


  

          

It's not a good show, IMO, by broadcast or cable standards. It's a slick soap opera with completely unbelievable scenarios. It's just a bad show to me. We are in fact in a golden age of television. Once you've watched shows like The Wire, Breaking Bad, The Shield, Game of Thrones, and Battlestar Galactica. The weaknesses in shows like Scandal become even more pronounced.

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Buddy_Gilapagos
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30. "Soap operas can be cool tho. Like first season of desperate housewives"
In response to Reply # 28


  

          

Was cool yeah I said it.


**********
"Everyone has a plan until you punch them in the face. Then they don't have a plan anymore." (c) Mike Tyson

  

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nipsey
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Tue Sep-24-13 11:21 PM

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39. "I have no problems with soaps"
In response to Reply # 30


  

          

Shoot, there was a time when I watched a whole bunch of the daytime soaps. My issue with Scandal is that it's a soap masquerading as a suspense drama. It's completely preposterous to me.

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LeroyBumpkin
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32. "Can network TV keep up?"
In response to Reply # 28


  

          

Once you've watched shows like The
>Wire, Breaking Bad, The Shield, Game of Thrones, and
>Battlestar Galactica. The weaknesses in shows like Scandal
>become even more pronounced.

Cause ^^^, I agree with.

I haven't watched a network TV drama since...I don't know...maybe Lost.
What network will allow the creative freedom cable does?

https://digife.com

  

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nipsey
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40. "I don't think any broadcast drama would reach those levels"
In response to Reply # 32


  

          

I don't watch "The Good Wife" but it gets high accolades and there are broadcast dramas that could be fun to watch, but I don't think they'll reach the level of the "top" cable shows. Networks have to program for a broad audience. They will never risk developing niche dramas. Especially at a cost of $3 million to $5 million and episode for 22 episodes. It's too much of a risk. They need to develop shows that appeal to the lowest common denominator. The business model forces the broadcast networks' hands.


>Once you've watched shows like The
>>Wire, Breaking Bad, The Shield, Game of Thrones, and
>>Battlestar Galactica. The weaknesses in shows like Scandal
>>become even more pronounced.
>
>Cause ^^^, I agree with.
>
>I haven't watched a network TV drama since...I don't
>know...maybe Lost.
>What network will allow the creative freedom cable does?

____________________________________
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OMITB Season 3 (Hulu): B-
Ahsoka Season 1 (Disney

  

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SankofaII
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41. "RE: I don't think any broadcast drama would reach those levels"
In response to Reply # 40


  

          

>I don't watch "The Good Wife" but it gets high accolades and
>there are broadcast dramas that could be fun to watch, but I
>don't think they'll reach the level of the "top" cable shows.
>Networks have to program for a broad audience. They will never
>risk developing niche dramas. Especially at a cost of $3
>million to $5 million and episode for 22 episodes. It's too
>much of a risk. They need to develop shows that appeal to the
>lowest common denominator. The business model forces the
>broadcast networks' hands.

but cable dramas cost, depending on the show, just as much as network dramas do.

the difference is that most cable shows have a level of quality that network dramas don't have because they don't have to be broad and appeal to a wide variety of people.

like, if you want you sci-fi esque genre shows, you can watch any of the shows on SyFy network or Orphan Black (and any other british sci-fi/horror shows) on BBC America;

you want hard hitting, edgy fare? Breaking Bad, The Walking Dead, The Americans, Justified, Sons of Anarchy, Boardwalk Empire, and Game of Thrones, etc. give you what you need on AMC, FX and HBO.

want not as dark but not broad dramas: go to the USA network and TNT.

non-broadcast comedies: FX has you covered with Louie, The League, Wilfred and It's Always Sunny in Philadephia.

the thing is cable is such a better and becoming a way better alternative because you HAVE WAY MORE variety to watch different types of shows than you do on network tv.

network tv: its basically bland procedurals (CBS, NBC), crappy nighttime soap operas (ABC), non-risky but inconsistently written genre fare (FOX), long in the tooth and misread teen dramas (CW), and questionable fare that doesn't have a brand of ANY kind because the network just threw shit on a wall and hoped it sticks and it never does because they don't have a damn idea WHO they should be on the network landscape (NBC).

Networks are trying to touch the cable method: The Good Wife (CBS), Hostages (CBS - which is the networks BIGGEST risk to date), The Following (FOX shit show but yea) and Hannibal (NBC) are the networks trying to do something along the lines of what cable does but STILL hold fast to their traditonal model.

so far, The Good Wife has been the only show above that's managed to somehow STAY on the air at CBS and it's probably one of the lowest rated, critically acclaimed shows for the net...at 10-13 million viewers a week. But CBS knows they have a goldmine with the show in terms of critical acclaim so they keep it.

hostages: too early to tell. if it sticks it's premise, gets decent double digit ratings and is critically acclaimed, it stays on like the good wife.

Hannibal: shit, i'm just happy NBC grew a pair and greenlit the show. I know folk front like they don't watch but NBC really *IS* staking it's claim as being the lone network that is trying to take chances.....
>
>
>>Once you've watched shows like The
>>>Wire, Breaking Bad, The Shield, Game of Thrones, and
>>>Battlestar Galactica. The weaknesses in shows like Scandal
>>>become even more pronounced.
>>
>>Cause ^^^, I agree with.
>>
>>I haven't watched a network TV drama since...I don't
>>know...maybe Lost.
>>What network will allow the creative freedom cable does?
>

Get Out the Room
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PlanetInfinite
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67. "The only one I can see standing up to cable drama is "The Good Wife""
In response to Reply # 4


  

          


i'm out.
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pops_nice
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Tue Sep-24-13 11:18 AM

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6. "I don't believe that the the little girl was kidnapped that easily"
In response to Reply # 0


          

It's hard to believe that once the little girl was in CIA custody that a road closure would have been enough of a diversion.

  

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Buddy_Gilapagos
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Tue Sep-24-13 12:36 PM

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11. "Or after anoucing that there would be a diversion. No one"
In response to Reply # 6


  

          

recognizing the diversion.

And didn't they pick the protagonist from her home with damn near a platoon and a helicopter? Why wouldn't they send as strong a team to pick up the girl.


**********
"Everyone has a plan until you punch them in the face. Then they don't have a plan anymore." (c) Mike Tyson

  

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Frank Longo
Member since Nov 18th 2003
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Tue Sep-24-13 11:36 AM

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7. "The Blacklist is a "drama" the way that 24 is a "drama.""
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

Both are really far closer to the "ridiculous thriller" genre than the "drama" genre, and neither should be analyzed terribly closely as a result, otherwise you'll find multiple insane things per episode, from the rhythms of the dialogue to the absurd twists.

Will "Agents of SHIELD" be a drama too?

Network TV isn't a place for drama anymore. You can put ridiculous thrillers, soaps, and procedurals on there. That's all, really. There's very little patience to develop a new drama on network TV the way there is on cable.

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SankofaII
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33. "RE: The Blacklist is a "drama" the way that 24 is a "drama.""
In response to Reply # 7


  

          

>Both are really far closer to the "ridiculous thriller" genre
>than the "drama" genre, and neither should be analyzed
>terribly closely as a result, otherwise you'll find multiple
>insane things per episode, from the rhythms of the dialogue to
>the absurd twists.

true
>
>Will "Agents of SHIELD" be a drama too?

I just need Agents of SHIELD to *NOT* be a hot mess and the fact that Joss Whedon had to come in and help the writing staff with many of the scripts post pilot because they network wasn't impressed at all? *shudders*...


>Network TV isn't a place for drama anymore. You can put
>ridiculous thrillers, soaps, and procedurals on there. That's
>all, really. There's very little patience to develop a new
>drama on network TV the way there is on cable.

um network tv still is a place for drama: The Good Wife is still on CBS, and that's a network drama in the most traditional sense.

Ironside, SVU still on NBC still dramas...

Get Out the Room
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Some of y'all need this in your life: http://www.psychology.com

  

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Frank Longo
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Tue Sep-24-13 10:04 PM

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35. "Ooh, good call, re: The Good Wife. Forgot about that."
In response to Reply # 33


  

          

I feel like Ironside won't stay on long.

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SankofaII
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Tue Sep-24-13 10:31 PM

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37. "RE: Ooh, good call, re: The Good Wife. Forgot about that."
In response to Reply # 35


  

          

>I feel like Ironside won't stay on long.

As much as I like Blair Underwood and agree that he's charming as hell, Ironside the show is too unnecessarily dark even for NBC and it won't stay on the air.

for a remake, it's bland as hell and not even remotely interesting. Blair and the rest of the cast deserve better than that.

Though I do see NBC keeping it at least for more of the season. if it does well in the ratings, they keep it until the end of the season and cancel it then.

it would be nice if the show *ACTUALLY* shot in New York City, and not did the same generic ass NYC exteriors "NYC based" shows use but are actually shot in LA: like the wall street wind tunnel, wall street area proper, etc.

like we all *KNOW* where that is...smh

Get Out the Room
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Some of y'all need this in your life: http://www.psychology.com

  

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Frank Longo
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8. "And DC friends: what the hell zoo was that?"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

It sure as shit wasn't the DC Zoo. Was it some specialty zoo that I'm unfamiliar with?

That building at the beginning definitely wasn't the FBI building either. I've been to the FBI building. Zero chance in hell if I was a criminal I'd get that reception either-- you'd get locked doors and one or two motherfuckers with guns come out to escort you, lol.

Then again, that's part of the charm of this ridiculous thriller genre. Leave logic at the door.

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Buddy_Gilapagos
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10. "I really didn't want this to be the Blacklist post. "
In response to Reply # 8
Tue Sep-24-13 12:34 PM by Buddy_Gilapagos

  

          

I just used the Blacklist as the latest example of high gloss not very realistic derivative story telling network show and was wondering if that is a function of bad Network storytelling or a purposeful attempt to get a bigger audience.

I assumed there would be a separate Blacklist post.



**********
"Everyone has a plan until you punch them in the face. Then they don't have a plan anymore." (c) Mike Tyson

  

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Frank Longo
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Tue Sep-24-13 01:32 PM

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13. "I know, but the post was sort of turning that way."
In response to Reply # 10
Tue Sep-24-13 01:35 PM by Frank Longo

  

          

The bottom line is there's not much discussion to be had about network TV "drama" in its purest form, because it doesn't really exist. There's fun ridiculous thrillers, soaps, and procedurals. If they want gritty realism (which I could argue barely exists on TV period if at all), they'll search for it on cable or premium.

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Buddy_Gilapagos
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16. "Why dramas don't exist on Network TV is a more worthwhile"
In response to Reply # 13
Tue Sep-24-13 02:19 PM by Buddy_Gilapagos

  

          

discussion.

I would have stirred the convo into a more general discussion.

*shrugs*

releasing the reins some would allow for a more organic less formulaic discussion.


**********
"Everyone has a plan until you punch them in the face. Then they don't have a plan anymore." (c) Mike Tyson

  

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Frank Longo
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19. "I don't think expanding the post's subject line is tightening the reins."
In response to Reply # 16


  

          

I think quite the opposite.

And as much of your original post was about The Blacklist, and a couple of people already felt compelled to reply specifically about The Blacklist, I don't see why the post can't be about both subjects. Especially if you thought this specific show was indicative of your larger thesis.

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ZooTown74
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9. "I actually enjoyed The Blacklist, mainly because of Spader"
In response to Reply # 0
Tue Sep-24-13 12:47 PM by ZooTown74

  

          

And I'm going to try not to be rude when saying this, but all of those "logic holes" that everyone likes to point out have been seen, over and over again, by a whole lot of people involved in the creation of this show. From pitch stage to script stage to development stage to production, all of those things that bother some folks have literally not bothered the hundreds of folks who have looked at this script before that episode aired. And like it or not, they all ultimately decided, who cares?

That doesn't mean that they're somehow smarter than you, or that you're smarter than them, or that they're dumb/"don't know what they're doing," or that you're dumb. It just means that, with literally millions of dollars at stake on these productions, minute details that "eagle-eyed" viewers take glee in pointing out ultimately don't matter.

Also, people like to watch pretty people on TV. Not sure why this is an issue.

Look, at the end of the day, any complaints about "realism" on just about any kind of TV show are ultimately goofy. Sorry, but they are. These are dramatizations, not documentaries or beacons of authenticity. And no, that doesn't excuse "lazy writing" (whatever the fuck that is), but some of the smaller things that some viewers pull their hair out while talking about "but that's not REALLLLL" are being blown past by people who are more interested in telling an entertaining story, regardless of genre.

__________________________________________________________________________________________________________
But Zootown, black people and media, so...

  

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Frank Longo
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14. "I want to know an example of strict realism on non-premium TV."
In response to Reply # 9
Tue Sep-24-13 01:38 PM by Frank Longo

  

          

I mean, I'm sure one could find "stretches" in The Wire and Sopranos too.

Nobody watches TV for realism. Nobody even watches reality TV for realism. They want the dramatization and storytelling.

Now, if people want to complain about characters acting out of character or the show not remaining loyal to the rules they established? That's a valid opinion. But if a show is heightened from the jump, and goofy heightened shit happens?

It's like when folks got mad at 24: "NO WAY this would happen!" Of course not. That's the point.

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Buddy_Gilapagos
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17. "Hill Street Blues, Early Law & Order and E&R"
In response to Reply # 14


  

          

were all shows that were praised for their realism. Now of course none of these shows were strict realism but they were realer than the hospital and justice system dramas that were out before them.

See once you know how things really work, its hard to go back and watch bad tv that is unrealistic UNLESS you embrace the unrealism and go all out. Sleepy Hollow will work for some because it is so crazy. Same with Blacklist I guess.


**********
"Everyone has a plan until you punch them in the face. Then they don't have a plan anymore." (c) Mike Tyson

  

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Frank Longo
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18. "Hasn't it been like twenty years then? That's not a coincidence."
In response to Reply # 17


  

          

>were all shows that were praised for their realism. Now of
>course none of these shows were strict realism but they were
>realer than the hospital and justice system dramas that were
>out before them.

The invention of cable has necessitated that shows looking for more realism part with the networks.

>See once you know how things really work, its hard to go back
>and watch bad tv that is unrealistic UNLESS you embrace the
>unrealism and go all out. Sleepy Hollow will work for some
>because it is so crazy. Same with Blacklist I guess.

See, I take issue with this phrase: "bad tv that is unrealistic." Plenty of great shows parted from realism.

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ZooTown74
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20. "^^^"
In response to Reply # 18


  

          

>See, I take issue with this phrase: "bad tv that is
>unrealistic." Plenty of great shows parted from realism.

___________________________________________________________________________________________________
But Zootown, black people and media, so...

  

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Buddy_Gilapagos
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21. "Not conflicting statements. You've said the same thing I stated."
In response to Reply # 18


  

          

I said that it's hard to watch "bad tv that is unrealistic" that doesn't mean that there isn't good TV that is unrealistic. Of course there are plenty of great shows that parted from realism.


**********
"Everyone has a plan until you punch them in the face. Then they don't have a plan anymore." (c) Mike Tyson

  

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Frank Longo
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26. "Fair enough. I thought Sleepy Hollow and The Blacklist had great pilots."
In response to Reply # 21


  

          

And not many pilots, especially for non-comedies grab me.

Now, will I still be committed by Ep 3-4? That's the real question. But as far as pilots go? I thought both did a terrific job of establishing their worlds and characters.

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SankofaII
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38. "RE: Fair enough. I thought Sleepy Hollow and The Blacklist had great pil..."
In response to Reply # 26


  

          

>And not many pilots, especially for non-comedies grab me.
>
>Now, will I still be committed by Ep 3-4? That's the real
>question. But as far as pilots go? I thought both did a
>terrific job of establishing their worlds and characters.

agreed. Though I think with Sleepy Hollow, you will still be committed by ep 3 and 4 beacuse they're clearly setting up not just the headless horseman mythology/four horseman of the apocalypse, but clearly they're setting up all kinds of other things to come associated with it...

which could prove to either be a hot, horrid mess or really fun.

i'm going with the latter.

Get Out the Room
https://itunes.apple.com/us/podcast/get-out-the-room/id525657893

Some of y'all need this in your life: http://www.psychology.com

  

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calij81
Member since Jan 17th 2007
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Tue Sep-24-13 03:32 PM

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22. "I understand what you are saying and usually willing to overlook most "
In response to Reply # 9


          

of this issues. I agree if it weren't for Spaded I probably don't even tune into this show or come back next week.

The phone thing, well I suppose it can forgive it but why not just have her make that call in the car on the way to get the girl?

I also didn't like that they beat us over the head with the potential father/daughter connection. Now maybe they will have some big twist and reveal that Spader is not the dad but all signs point Spader being the dad. Why not save that for a little later.

  

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ZooTown74
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Tue Sep-24-13 04:23 PM

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24. "But I thought in the "This season... on The Blacklist" promo at the end"
In response to Reply # 22
Tue Sep-24-13 04:24 PM by ZooTown74

  

          

She asked him if he was her dad, and he said something like, "the answer is not that easy/more complicated than you know" or something like that

Possible artificial insemination/switched sperm tube back in '86 scenario?

_____________________________________________________________________________________________________
But Zootown, black people and media, so...

  

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BrooklynWHAT
Member since Jun 15th 2007
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12. "Blacklist was hot."
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

I thought that joint was gonna suck ass too.

<--- Big Baller World Order

  

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Rjcc
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23. "what struck me about The Blacklist"
In response to Reply # 0


          

was how scientifically it appeared to be put together.

every single thing about the lead character seemed designed to try to pull women into watching this action/thriller show. they punch every single trigger possible in a single episode. similarly, spader's I know everything assholeishness was played up to ridiculous levels.

it wasn't a story so much as a paint by numbers, and it was offputting.

http://card.mygamercard.net/lastgame/rjcc.png

www.engadgethd.com - the other stuff i'm looking at

  

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SankofaII
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36. "RE: what struck me about The Blacklist"
In response to Reply # 23


  

          

>was how scientifically it appeared to be put together.
>
>every single thing about the lead character seemed designed to
>try to pull women into watching this action/thriller show.
>they punch every single trigger possible in a single episode.
>similarly, spader's I know everything assholeishness was
>played up to ridiculous levels.
>
>it wasn't a story so much as a paint by numbers, and it was
>offputting.
>


I'm glad you brought this up because it did feel uncomfortable clinical in the characters and how each was such a stock character designed for people to immediately like them.

Spader is fun to watch in this but yes, what you described above was irritating as hell.

Just like Diego Klattenhoff's agent character is going to be jealous of Keen and rendered incompetent etc.

Get Out the Room
https://itunes.apple.com/us/podcast/get-out-the-room/id525657893

Some of y'all need this in your life: http://www.psychology.com

  

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Rjcc
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44. "but the shit works tho so... (link)"
In response to Reply # 36


          

http://www.xojane.com/entertainment/sexy-creeper-james-spader-the-blacklist

spader's whole thing.

they threw EVERYTHING at the lead.

betrayal by her SO.
infertile
trying to create a family
suddenly protective of a little girl
mentioned her hair

almost needed a drinking game

http://card.mygamercard.net/lastgame/rjcc.png

www.engadgethd.com - the other stuff i'm looking at

  

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SankofaII
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46. "RE: but the shit works tho so... (link)"
In response to Reply # 44


  

          

>http://www.xojane.com/entertainment/sexy-creeper-james-spader-the-blacklist
>
>spader's whole thing.
>
>they threw EVERYTHING at the lead.
>
>betrayal by her SO.
>infertile
>trying to create a family
>suddenly protective of a little girl
>mentioned her hair
>
>almost needed a drinking game
>
>

oh hell yea.

SHIT, I just *MAY* do a drinking game for this every time the writers throw an additional character flaw/wrinkle etc at her.

problem is, i'll be one DRUNK ASS MOTHERFUCKER AT 11:00 PM EVERY MONDAY!

LOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOL

Get Out the Room
https://itunes.apple.com/us/podcast/get-out-the-room/id525657893

Some of y'all need this in your life: http://www.psychology.com

  

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CyrenYoung
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27. "spader works..."
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

..everything else, not so much

the clock is tickin'...


*skatin' the rings of saturn*

https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=B7E8dge7H8Y


..and miles to go before i sleep...

  

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nipsey
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29. "RE: spader works..."
In response to Reply # 27


  

          

I think that's what NBC is banking on. They expect him to chew through scenery and keep you glued to the set. I think they're doing the same thing with "Ironside". Based on the first episode, it seems like typical cop fare. But if Blair Underwood is charming enough, it might do well in the ratings.

____________________________________
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CyrenYoung
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31. "ironside was foolish..."
In response to Reply # 29
Wed Sep-25-13 10:07 AM by CyrenYoung

  

          

..i remember the original series.

it wasn't great and neither is the reincarnation.

as far as this series goes, if spader is the only compelling figure for the Blacklist, that list will be cut short very soon.


*skatin' the rings of saturn*

https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=B7E8dge7H8Y


..and miles to go before i sleep...

  

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SankofaII
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34. "save for James Spader, Lennix and Diego Klattenhoff"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

The Blacklist is bland as fuck.

Like, I need Megan Boone's team to STOP promoting her like she's some star..she's not. She sucked on the Law and Order: LA spinoff, she was the ONE replacement partner (post Jennifer Esposito being fired, which is still bullshit) for Danny Reagan on Blue Bloods that fans HATED

she's so *NOT* a talented actress and how she landed the lead on this show is surprising to me. Mama must have that GOOD dome game because i'm not understanding how *ANYONE* could even believe she'd be able to handle herself in this complex role going toe to toe with Hannibal Lechter lite aka Red Reddington aka THE MAN, James Spader.

it's a bland show, that clearly has legs to last several seasons because clearly they're going to address Keen's past, and all the various villains on the list.

But, right now, I'm cautiously on but i'm praying that Boone steps up her game FOR REAL on this one...

she won't. but still...

Get Out the Room
https://itunes.apple.com/us/podcast/get-out-the-room/id525657893

Some of y'all need this in your life: http://www.psychology.com

  

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ZooTown74
Member since May 29th 2002
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Wed Sep-25-13 10:35 AM

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42. "Well SHIT, tell us how you REALLY feel about Megan Boone, lol"
In response to Reply # 34


  

          

Got-DAMN, Sankofa

___________________________________________________________________________________________________
But Zootown, black people and media, so...

  

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SankofaII
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45. "RE: Well SHIT, tell us how you REALLY feel about Megan Boone, lol"
In response to Reply # 42


  

          

>Got-DAMN, Sankofa
>
>___________________________________________________________________________________________________
>But Zootown, black people and media, so...


yea I threw that good shade on her but it's true.

she's horrible.

people complained about her on Law and Order: Los Angeles even MORE SO than the bland writing and were HAPPY when they retooled the show in the back 9, her character was written off the show.

Blue Bloods: folk WENT IN on her ass.

I'm not saying she can't get better...ANYONE can improve and get better.

But, she's so far behind the eight ball I don't know.

and it's bad when critics single her out for being OUT of her league.

i'm not expecting her to be Cate Blanchett, etc. but you better *MORE* than be able to hold your own with Spader's cannibalistic scenery chewing theatrics and come BACK and HARDER with your own performance.

Elizabeth Keen as a character is interesting and complicated as hell and she POPPED on the page when I read the pilot (which was WHY I wanted to see this. This is new for NBC: a truly complicated and flesh out heroine. On NBC? WUUUUUUT?!)

I just don't think Boone can develop her to match that.

I could easily have seen a Liv Tyler, Hayley Atwell, Gemma Arterton, etc. type of actress to play her and BRING OUT those shades of complication and hold their own against Spader and even BEST him in episodes...

and NBC could have *EASILY* attracted talent like that.

With Boone? Nah....she's coming off real shaky and real flighty in this role. And given who Keen *SHOULD* be...that's not good at all.

Get Out the Room
https://itunes.apple.com/us/podcast/get-out-the-room/id525657893

Some of y'all need this in your life: http://www.psychology.com

  

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Calico
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47. "wait ..wha?"
In response to Reply # 45


  

          

there weren't fleshed out female roles on ER, or the West Wing, or SVU? (i wanna add Parenthood, but...uh....)

"yes, sometimes my rhymes are sexist, but you lovely bitches and hos should know i'm tryin to correct it"- hiphopopotamus

  

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SankofaII
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48. "RE: wait ..wha?"
In response to Reply # 47


  

          

>there weren't fleshed out female roles on ER, or the West
>Wing, or SVU? (i wanna add Parenthood, but...uh....)

actually not really.

SVU: Benson is fleshed out because she's the lead. Rollins? not.

ER: it took them YEARS to flesh out most of the women characters on the show.

Parenthood is in such a league of its own I forget that it's on NBC...like, this really should be a cable show.

I don't know how Parenthood has managed to stay on the air at NBC for so long....

But, Parenthood is completely different.

But the other shows...nah, in a lot of respects, it took them years to give women characters on those shows depth.

Get Out the Room
https://itunes.apple.com/us/podcast/get-out-the-room/id525657893

Some of y'all need this in your life: http://www.psychology.com

  

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Rjcc
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43. "she's not a good actress."
In response to Reply # 34


          


http://card.mygamercard.net/lastgame/rjcc.png

www.engadgethd.com - the other stuff i'm looking at

  

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AZ
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49. "she is a horrible actress nm"
In response to Reply # 34


          

  

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Hamsterline
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Wed Dec-04-13 02:11 PM

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69. "Megan Boone is AWFUL"
In response to Reply # 34


  

          

couldn't agree more. She thinks acting is a series of 'moon eyes'.

I just CAN'T with her. She takes me completely out of the moment.

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SankofaII
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50. "The Blacklist get a full season order"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

So we get a FULL year to see if the writers develop and IMPROVE upon the lead character, more, to see if Meghan Boone can LEAD the show because Parminder Nagra's entrance as Agent Margot Malik (she's CIA right? or is she FBI but just an agent who is willing to bend the rules to get what she needs, i.e. braking dude's leg even more to get him to talk) who clearly doesn't give a fuck makes Boone's lack of talent EVEN MORE apparent

http://www.deadline.com/2013/10/nbcs-the-blacklist-gets-back-9-order/

No surprise here — NBC breakout new drama The Blacklist has received an early back 9 pickup, bringing its first-season order to a full-season 22 episodes. James Spader shines as the enigmatic Red Reddington in the thriller procedural from Sony Pictures TV and Davis Entertainment, which opened with a 3.8 Live+Same Day adults 18-49 rating. “The many layers of Red Reddington and his mysterious reasons for getting into bed with the FBI seem to be fascinating to fans of this show,†said NBC Entertainment president Jennifer Salke. Through the first two weeks of the season, The Blacklist has averaged a 3.6 18-49 rating and 12 million viewers, ranking as the No. 1 most watched new drama this fall and No. 2 in 18-49. The series has dominated the Monday 10 PM hour, and the September 23 premiere added 4.4 million time-shifting viewers in Live+3. The Blacklist stars Spader and Megan Boone, with Diego Klattenhoff, Harry Lennix, Ryan Eggold and Parminder Nagra co-starring. It joins Fox’s new drama Sleepy Hollow, which received a second-season order yesterday, with a pickup for ABC’s Marvel’s Agents Of S.H.I.E.L.D. likely to come next.

Get Out the Room
https://itunes.apple.com/us/podcast/get-out-the-room/id525657893

Some of y'all need this in your life: http://www.psychology.com

  

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Frank Longo
Member since Nov 18th 2003
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Tue Oct-15-13 01:01 AM

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51. "Tonight was great. Best of the season by a mile."
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

TOM NOONAN AND CLIFTON COLLINS JR POWER.

I enjoy this show. It's hitting its stride nicely and Spader is such a beast.

My movies: http://russellhainline.com
My movie reviews: https://letterboxd.com/RussellHFilm/
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SankofaII
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52. "RE: Tonight was great. Best of the season by a mile."
In response to Reply # 51


  

          

>TOM NOONAN AND CLIFTON COLLINS JR POWER.
>
>I enjoy this show. It's hitting its stride nicely and Spader
>is such a beast.


I KNOW...when I saw Noonan in the promos, I had a freakout.

And Clifton Collins?!

shit...Spader, Collins, Lennix, and Noonan, with Nagra (CIA operative Margot Malik) and Diego Klattenhoff is such fodder for a great episode, I totally forget that the show is dragged down by Boone's performance as Elizabeth Keen.

I can't wait to see this when I get off work in the morning!

woo hoo!

Get Out the Room
https://itunes.apple.com/us/podcast/get-out-the-room/id525657893

Some of y'all need this in your life: http://www.psychology.com

  

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Allah
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53. "I was about to say it's like Silence of the Lambs meets 24 ...."
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

but I like it ....

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SoulHonky
Member since Jan 21st 2003
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Tue Oct-29-13 10:40 AM

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54. "RE: Original question"
In response to Reply # 0


          

"So I wonder if it's purposeful. In order to get bigger audiences, are Networks required to create high gloss pretty visuals and tell easy to follow derivative stories?"

I'd say yes. Bruckheimer brought extra gloss to C.S.i., it became a hit and everyone starts following that trend. Networks rarely do gritty. It's why Walking Dead and Breaking Bad are the kind of shows that don't get network copycats because it's hard to do them without some nice high gloss sheen. They jumped on the Mad Men bandwagon a couple years back and that show wasn't doing close to the same numbers.

Trying to get as many people is also why network shows usually shy away from serialized storytelling. Also, I don't think network execs like having to look that far in the future. They want to be able to watch an episode, give notes on that episode alone, and not really worry about, "Oh, no, the reason that scene happens is because in four episodes this will happen..."

Serialized TV is becoming a little more prevalent but for big budget shows, the networks will always err on the side of episodic. JJ Abrams/Cuaron's new show seems like it might be the same way - an overall mythology but a lot of the show will be about an standalone storyline. But one problem is that whenever they get comfortable with serialized shows, they start tossing out a bunch of them (like Flash Forward, The Events, etc.) and most of them fail and their fallback excuse is "Well, people just don't like serialized TV" instead of the fact that "Well, maybe we just didn't do a good job with this show."

----
NBA MOCK DRAFT #1 - https://thecourierclass.com/whole-shebang/2017/5/18/2017-nba-mock-draft-1-just-lotto-and-lotta-trades

  

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SankofaII
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55. "another solid ep..."
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

and Boone isn't pissing me off so much anymore!

the cast has settled into their roles and the tone is set I'm with Allah he's dead on with what this reminds him of.

Monday's ep was very solid.

though damn, can they teach Agent Ressler how to fight? SHIT, he gets his ass kicked EVERY OTHER EPISODE! LMAO!

and let me find out Liz is kinda scrappy...even if that assassin fucked her ass up was damn near close to killing her!

and can they get to Red telling Liz he's her daddy?!

Shit...stop dragging this out!

Get Out the Room
https://itunes.apple.com/us/podcast/get-out-the-room/id525657893

Some of y'all need this in your life: http://www.psychology.com

  

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Beamer6178
Member since Jan 09th 2006
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Tue Oct-29-13 02:10 PM

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56. "this aspect is so pathetic, i'm almost mad if he IS"
In response to Reply # 55


  

          

I haven't seen this week's ep yet, and I'm a fan of the show, but THIS shit is dumb.


I mean they said it so early, her father was a criminal who was absent...

always calling her "lizzie"

i mean SHIT, he should have told her from jump and then have her grapple with that throughout. as a viewing audience, WE ALL FUCKING KNEW THAT FROM THE MOMENT THEY SAID WHO HER FATHER WAS.



  

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Calico
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57. "i don't think he's her father"
In response to Reply # 56


  

          

...but i do think he's been looking out for her her whole life FOR her father, who may/may not be dead...the father thing is SO obvious that i think it's a......*sigh*..._____ herring

"yes, sometimes my rhymes are sexist, but you lovely bitches and hos should know i'm tryin to correct it"- hiphopopotamus

  

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Frank Longo
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Wed Oct-30-13 02:46 PM

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58. "Right, I also doubt he's the father."
In response to Reply # 57


  

          

He could be the uncle or some shit, or the man who killed her father, but he ain't the father. He's just connected somehow.

My movies: http://russellhainline.com
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Rjcc
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59. "it's bizarre that the FBI didn't immediately do a genetic test"
In response to Reply # 57


          

to find out.


but I agree, the "he's her father" angle is just too obvious for that to be it.

also, this FBI unit is THE WORST. they can't protect any fucking body.

http://card.mygamercard.net/lastgame/rjcc.png

www.engadgethd.com - the other stuff i'm looking at

  

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SankofaII
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60. "after re-watching the ep this morning..."
In response to Reply # 57


  

          

i see that.

BUT, this is NBC, and we all know NBC is LEGENDARY for trafficking in the obvious...

I can totally buy that he is connected to her somehow and has been looking out for her all this time...

and that everything that has happened to this point was due in part to his involvement.

So we'll see. I do know is that I hope they don't drag this reveal out to May sweeps. SMH

Get Out the Room
https://itunes.apple.com/us/podcast/get-out-the-room/id525657893

Some of y'all need this in your life: http://www.psychology.com

  

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SoulHonky
Member since Jan 21st 2003
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Wed Nov-27-13 01:51 PM

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61. "Is this The Blacklist thread now?"
In response to Reply # 0


          

Anyway, last episode was pretty good although it feels like it should have been a season finale. Let us get to know Red's sidekicks a little better and build up the rivalry between Red and the guy chasing after him.

Part of me hopes that Spader, in season 2, breaks out and starts working on his own because the government agents aren't really adding much and I'm not very interested in the Megan Boone storyline.

----
NBA MOCK DRAFT #1 - https://thecourierclass.com/whole-shebang/2017/5/18/2017-nba-mock-draft-1-just-lotto-and-lotta-trades

  

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SankofaII
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62. "RE: Is this The Blacklist thread now?"
In response to Reply # 61


  

          

>Anyway, last episode was pretty good although it feels like
>it should have been a season finale. Let us get to know Red's
>sidekicks a little better and build up the rivalry between Red
>and the guy chasing after him.


agreed. I thought it was a mid-season finale, then come to find out that next week is the mid season finale?! Good lord.

But, kudos to the writing team. Red and his relationship with his sidekicks was quite developed and was developing each week. To take them out like that so violently and abruptly? Wow.

And in the promos, dude puts a gun to Keen's head and you *KNOW* he's going to have to reveal to Ressler WHY he wants him to tell the dude the codes? Though I think he'd shoot Ressler in a heartbeat?

We know Keen isn't going to die clearly....but Ressler? Oh he's fair game.

I can't wait to see the ep next week.

>Part of me hopes that Spader, in season 2, breaks out and
>starts working on his own because the government agents aren't
>really adding much and I'm not very interested in the Megan
>Boone storyline.


agreed. I'm not either. Or if you have to have her, make her occasionally go on side trips with him while still taking down the villains on the blacklist...with Red and without him.

just don't kill off Margot Malik (Parminder Nagra) or Harold Cooper (Harry Lennix) both their characters are quite intriguing and *BOTH* play them in ways that suggest they're both a lot more complex than they let on.

But Keen's boyfriend? They can put a bullet between his eyes and i'd be fine with that. He serves no purpose and they are dragging out his "Who is he working for?" storyline...

Get Out the Room
https://itunes.apple.com/us/podcast/get-out-the-room/id525657893

Some of y'all need this in your life: http://www.psychology.com

  

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movement
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Tue Dec-03-13 12:28 AM

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63. "RE: The Blacklist / Network Drama discussion"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

Tonights episode was great. I've been pleasantly surprised by this show so far.

-----------------------------------------------------------

  

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Frank Longo
Member since Nov 18th 2003
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Tue Dec-03-13 02:01 AM

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64. "Welp, the father question is answered! Kind of!"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

lol

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calij81
Member since Jan 17th 2007
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Tue Dec-03-13 02:20 AM

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65. "Very good episode but I still believe Red is her dad"
In response to Reply # 64


          

That wasn't a very convincing answer. Lizzy needs to run her DNA against Reds.

A good first half of the season and can't wait for it to come back in january.

  

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Calico
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66. "i liked this ep *spoilers*"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

...i liked the thought of some one seemingly way highert up the food chain than Red...i also liked them hinting at a bigger conspiracy that made him who he is....

episodes like this, where they REALLY make it all about Reddington, are better, simply cause Spader is better

i'm glad she finally had the stones to ask him who he is to her though....

"yes, sometimes my rhymes are sexist, but you lovely bitches and hos should know i'm tryin to correct it"- hiphopopotamus

  

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SankofaII
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68. "Early Season 2 Renewal"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

GOOD. NBC needs to start standing behind it's shows. This S2 greenlight is a clear commitment they're behind the show.


http://www.deadline.com/2013/12/nbcs-the-blacklist-renewed-for-second-season/

On the heels of a strong ratings finish of its fall run last night, NBC‘s hit freshman drama The Blacklist has been given an early second season renewal with a 22-episode order. The Sony TV-produced series starring James Spader is the No. 1 drama and the No. 2 scripted series on the Big 4 networks in the 18-49 demo, averaging a 4.9 rating/13 share (most current). It is the No. 1 new show in 18-49 and total viewers and NBC’s most watched new drama in 19 years, since Earth 2 in 1994. In addition to a strong Live showing, The Blacklist is a monster DVR gainer. Its November 4 episode delivered the largest total-viewer increase from Live+Same Day to Live+7 ever, growing by 6.589 million (from 10.337 million to 16.926 million). The Blacklist, which commanded the highest ad price for a new series this fall, now holds the top three L+SD to L+7 rises among total viewers in U.S. TV history. “The success of ‘The Blacklist’ demonstrates that inspired storytelling is alive and well in broadcast television,” NBC chairman Bob Greenblatt said. “With gratitude to both our partners at Sony Pictures Television and our NBC development executives who took a great script and shepherded it into a great series, I hope that Red Reddington never runs out of names to bring down on his list!”

The Blacklist, produced by Davis Entertainment in association with Sony Pictures TV, stars Spader as Reddington, a world-renowned terrorist on the FBI’s Most Wanted List who is helping the U.S. government catch international criminals, but for unknown reasons. The series also stars Megan Boone, Diego Klattenhoff, Harry Lennix, Ryan Eggold and Parminder Nagra. Jon Bokenkamp, John Eisendrath, John Davis and John Fox serve as executive producers. The pilot was directed by Joe Carnahan. The Blacklist returns with originals on January 13. It is the second freshman drama to receive a second season pickup, following the order to Fox’s Sleepy Hollow, which is doing 13-episode seasons.

Get Out the Room
https://itunes.apple.com/us/podcast/get-out-the-room/id525657893

Some of y'all need this in your life: http://www.psychology.com

  

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handle
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Wed Dec-04-13 03:35 PM

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70. "This show needs less dialog"
In response to Reply # 0


          

Example: The FBI located where Red is being held.

There are shows of SWAT teams trolling up, Swat Teams enter the buidling, shots of headlamps searching the darkeness and troops slowy advancing, until they come upon the chain and the chair , a dead body and a large pool of blood.

The the chick walks in and says "He was here!"

Cut that line out, and make her act a little more than fluttering her eyes and we have a show.

Keep Spader talking - and get Alan Alda in in more too!

  

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Calico
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Wed Dec-04-13 03:44 PM

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71. "LOL i hated that scene for that very reason...."
In response to Reply # 70


  

          

ugh, made me hate her even more....or when she's with the extraction specialist lady and Keane is talking bout phoning in all the dead bodies to the FBI.....i mean, does she have to be THAT dumb??

...i which network tv action shows didn't think their audiences needed things SO dumbed down....

"yes, sometimes my rhymes are sexist, but you lovely bitches and hos should know i'm tryin to correct it"- hiphopopotamus

  

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nipsey
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72. "Reddington ain't no joke"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

Dude is showing why he's #1 on The Blacklist. Systematically taking out those that aggrieved him. Goodness!

____________________________________
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nipsey
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73. "Reddington racked up a body count"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

the likes of which haven't been seen since Jack Bauer in Season 5 of '24'. I'm loving this.

____________________________________
Podcast Now on iTunes and Google:
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Last 3 things I watched:

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nipsey
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Mon Jan-20-14 10:16 PM

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74. "I'm over Lizzie's husband."
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

If he's not part of the overarching mythology of this show, they need to dump his character. It detracts from the story. I expect him to die by season's end so the show can get off to a fresh start next season.

____________________________________
Podcast Now on iTunes and Google:
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Last 3 things I watched:

The Changeling Season 1 (Apple+): C
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Ahsoka Season 1 (Disney

  

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Calico
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75. "i don't care at all about her marraige"
In response to Reply # 74


  

          

...the show loses stream when they show her personal life without Reddington...

she's an idiot, WE GET IT...i don't see why the show has to hammer that home in almost every ep that she stays fuckin up in her personal life....

...however, i thought the lady's reaction to hearing Keane wasn't taking maternity leave was hilarious

...Red really likes those big black bodyguards huh?

"yes, sometimes my rhymes are sexist, but you lovely bitches and hos should know i'm tryin to correct it"- hiphopopotamus

  

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ZooTown74
Member since May 29th 2002
43582 posts
Tue Jan-21-14 11:11 AM

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77. "Exact same thought I had"
In response to Reply # 75


  

          

>...Red really likes those big black bodyguards huh?

Also, I don't think anyone was surprised at the reveal of the mole

__________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________
I'm lofty. Feel free to stay lost in your feelings.

  

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Frank Longo
Member since Nov 18th 2003
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Tue Jan-21-14 09:49 AM

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76. "I really wanted the big reveal at this ep's end to be..."
In response to Reply # 74


  

          

... she saw her husband in the list of people the Alchemist gave a new life to. Shit woulda been hot fiyaaaaaaa.

My movies: http://russellhainline.com
My movie reviews: https://letterboxd.com/RussellHFilm/
My beer TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@thebeertravelguide

  

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nipsey
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Tue Jan-21-14 07:06 PM

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78. "That definitely would have been more interesting"
In response to Reply # 76


  

          

>... she saw her husband in the list of people the Alchemist
>gave a new life to. Shit woulda been hot fiyaaaaaaa.

____________________________________
Podcast Now on iTunes and Google:
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Twitter: @nipsey @JTTOUPodcast

Last 3 things I watched:

The Changeling Season 1 (Apple+): C
OMITB Season 3 (Hulu): B-
Ahsoka Season 1 (Disney

  

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Calico
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Wed Jan-22-14 10:53 AM

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79. "this show and SHIELD are alot alike"
In response to Reply # 76


  

          

they both keep seting things up for this BIG reveal, but most people who watch aren't gonna be shocked when it happens, and lil interesting stuff they couldv'e done, they don't do trying to make the audience "wait for it"

"yes, sometimes my rhymes are sexist, but you lovely bitches and hos should know i'm tryin to correct it"- hiphopopotamus

  

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nipsey
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80. "The Hollywood Reporter update on some freshman shows"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

http://www.hollywoodreporter.com/bastard-machine/blacklist-brooklyn-nine-nine-freshman-678873

Second Look: How Some Freshman Shows Are Getting It Done -- Or Not

11:13 AM PST 2/10/2014 by Tim Goodman

A random sample of comedies and dramas reveal some hits, some misses and some necessary fine-tuning for continued success.

"Brooklyn Nine-Nine" on Fox is one of the few shows that's doing everything right.
It's been a mixed bag of hits, misses and on-the-bubble shows when it comes to this television season's freshman crop. Here's a look at how a select sampling of them have succeeded -- or not -- and what can be done to improve themselves creatively and increase their chances of survival.

The Blacklist (NBC): This was the fall drama that really got most everything right, from star to concept to the network promotion being spot on. Already a hit for NBC, the James Spader-led series is an excellent, entertaining hour and is self-aware enough to know that Spader is the catalyst, and the more screen time he gets the better.

What it did right: Spader.

What it can improve: At some point, a one-person show is just that. The Blacklist needs to do a better job of spreading stories to the rest of the cast and making us actually care about them. The show has certainly tried, but it always seems a bit thin. Still, hard to argue with how much fun it is.

Sleepy Hollow (Fox): Here's a series that rather impressively improved as it went on from episode to episode. I noted in my initial review that Sleepy Hollow was a lot more fun to watch the weirder and more out there it got. When it tries to be grounded, there isn't as much traction.

What it did right: When it flipped sensibilities and didn't worry about boundaries, the entertainment level spiked. The trajectory of its season saw a lot more loopiness, which made me applaud the effort.

What it can improve: Sleepy Hollow did a fair enough job explaining the mythology buried in the story, but more work can be done there as well.

Hostages (CBS): If the network gives this show a second season, it will most likely be with a different cast and concept. But I can't imagine CBS will want to try this experiment again. With roughly five million loyal viewers, that was much, much too low for anything on CBS. And Hostages just wasn't really a CBS show in that it was an open-ended, 15-episode "thriller" that required commitment. Clearly, the CBS audience prefers procedurals. And in this case, you can't blame them.

What it did right: Hostages started great -- the pilot as compelling as any this fall, with Dylan McDermott playing an FBI agent blackmailing a surgeon (Toni Collette) into killing the president during surgery or her own family would be killed.

What it can improve: But from the second episode, Hostages got bogged down in complication. Threats weren't exactly carried out, and it became a plodding, boring bit of inertia. Those who hung around got a pay off for their loyalty, but this was a premise that worked on paper, not on screen.

Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D. (ABC): This Marvel concept was supposed to be ABC's big fall knockout punch, but it seems expectations were probably (and maybe unfairly) too high. The show will surely get a second season because it began to find itself roughly at the halfway point -- longer than anyone probably wanted, but better to find a sense of purpose than not.

What it got right: For a show that wasn't going to be able to rely on all the marquee superheroes that fans would have loved to see drop by, S.H.I.E.L.D. had to teach its audience that there were still cool "threats" out there, with normal humans showing traces of having "a gift" that, if not controlled, could become "a weapon" if they fell into the wrong hands. Later efforts at this improved significantly and, technically, what the series got right was finding the right tone after early stumbles. It's not perfect, but it can still be an intriguing hour.

What it can improve: Early on, S.H.I.E.L.D. spent too much time -- slow time -- introducing its characters (only Fitz/Simmons and Coulson seemed fully formed). Too much time on the Skye character in particular bogged down the forward motion and there was -- and still is -- a little too much blandness to the writing.

Super Fun Night (ABC): An argument could be made that the reason America didn't fall in love and buy into this show (as they had previously shown a real love for star Rebel Wilson), nor into the higher-profile Michael J. Fox Show (on NBC and now pulled from the schedule but not technically canceled), is that the humor was, intended or not, built around laughing at the characters, not with them. That's uncomfortable for everyone. ABC hasn't yet decided what to do with Super Fun Night, but it definitely needs an overhaul to go forward.

What it got right: Casting Rebel Wilson.

What it can improve: Give fans a reason to applaud her successes, not watch her fail and humiliate herself. Also, the concept was paper thin to begin with -- was it friends who stay in but secretly wish they should go out, or was it Wilson in the workplace, perhaps finding love? Reboot or give up.

Brooklyn Nine-Nine (Fox): It's hard to call this hit a surprise since the pilot was dead-on funny, but sometimes that's not enough (and as a police comedy, a notoriously difficult genre, there were obstacles to its success). But Brooklyn Nine-Nine has been impressively hilarious week-to-week and is one of the most complete, fully-formed freshman series in ages.

What it got right: Everything, basically. But most importantly, the tone. To offset Andy Samberg's wackiness with Andre Braugher's no-flinch seriousness was a fantastic idea well-executed. And the series immediately identified the ensemble cast as a series of potential laughs whenever needed, then has fleshed that cast out as the season went.

What it can improve: Don't change anything.

Intelligence (CBS): Competing with The Blacklist and ABC's veteran Castle hasn't been easy for Intelligence, but really, the show has no one to blame but itself. Think of Chuck but without the laughs -- Josh Holloway plays a man "with a supercomputer microchip in his brain." Unfortunately, it's not as cool or compelling as it sounds.

What it got right: Holloway is a good choice for a leading man, mixing charm, sarcasm and annoyance. Plus, the concept could be intriguing if it's well-defined.
What it can improve: In the early episodes, Intelligence just seemed hokey. Not only was Holloway plugged into the "information grid" and able to theoretically use technology to get into and out of jams successfully, but he could also visualize scenarios in his brain (the visuals frozen on screen as he walked around them) and make profiler-like observations. It was too much, clumsily-executed and stopped the action dead in its track. If the show sticks to him being deployed to various problem spots, focusing on a defined set of skills, it would play better. Right now, too much and too hokey.

Rake (Fox). Greg Kinnear is a good investment for a leading man and Fox probably wanted another of TV's most favorite archetypes -- the flawed, mostly annoying but ultimately skilled or charming man who saves the day despite said flaws. But in Rake, Kinnear's degenerate lawyer character never leaves you wanting to like him or have him succeed.

What it got right: Kinnear.

What it can improve: Giving the audience a rooting interest. The show goes out of its way to make Kinnear the gambling-addicted, heavy-drinking, womanizing and conniving louse, but spends almost no time redeeming him. And along the way, there's not many laughs to keep that behavior interesting. The series, if it's not too late already, needs to expand quickly to the supporting cast, but could ultimately be suffering from viewer fatigue at these sorts of characters.

Email: Tim.Goodman@THR.com
Twitter: @BastardMachine

____________________________________
Podcast Now on iTunes and Google:
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Twitter: @nipsey @JTTOUPodcast

Last 3 things I watched:

The Changeling Season 1 (Apple+): C
OMITB Season 3 (Hulu): B-
Ahsoka Season 1 (Disney

  

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Beamer6178
Member since Jan 09th 2006
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Wed Mar-19-14 04:58 PM

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81. "This last episode and the tail end of the previous stepped it up"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

Good looking ZooTown, I didn't feel like searching for this joint and figured if I made a new thread, people would handle that LOL

  

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labcoat
Member since Jun 15th 2006
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82. "omg this last episode was crazy!"
In response to Reply # 81


          

--------------
Daren, I'll never forget you
http://www.fayemurman.com/extras/magee/daren/

  

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Beamer6178
Member since Jan 09th 2006
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Wed Mar-26-14 10:52 AM

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83. "shit was real last night"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

so my guess is that Tom is somehow inside and connected to some US agency to smoke out Redd, since they've all suspected him of being Keene's father. That much he explained in previous eps as to why he tracked her down and courted/married her.

Red, knowing shit was up, seemingly allowed himself to get caught so that he could keep a closer eye on her.

Next few weeks are gonna be fun.

  

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SoulHonky
Member since Jan 21st 2003
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Wed Mar-26-14 12:10 PM

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84. "Wow. I thought that episode sucked"
In response to Reply # 83


          

I guess you're just more invested in the whole "Who does the husband work for?" angle which I'm not sure why I should give a damn about. And they've had a whole season to set up a way for her to discover who the boyfriend is and they make it the toy she gave him (and why would he even bring it into his place. And why was she keeping him informed on her every move?)

The hacker story was silly and the kid was a horrible actor on top of it.

For me, Spader carries the show and any episode that barely involves him or has him simply in "Red knows everything" mode and he basically captures infamous criminals with little effort aren't as entertaining.

The first half of the series was strong but this second half feels like they are making it up as they go along and they haven't really settled on a strong storyline. To me, it's another case of someone keeping facts a mystery (what is the husband up to) but it doesn't actually help the show.

----
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nipsey
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Wed Mar-26-14 04:34 PM

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85. "Get out of my head!!!"
In response to Reply # 84


  

          

This is exactly how I've felt about this second half of the season.

>I guess you're just more invested in the whole "Who does the
>husband work for?" angle which I'm not sure why I should give
>a damn about. And they've had a whole season to set up a way
>for her to discover who the boyfriend is and they make it the
>toy she gave him (and why would he even bring it into his
>place. And why was she keeping him informed on her every
>move?)

Same question my wife and I asked. Why TF did she keep calling him to give him progress updates? It couldn't wait till she got home from work? Speaking of work. I thought he was a teacher. Where does he have the time to run all over town killing people and going to his house of operations. Also, why in TV and movies these HQs always have to have a bulletin board with dozens of pictures of the "target" with various lines drawn from picture to picture. Dude knows what she looks like. He doesn't need a serial killer shrine on a push pin board.

>
>The hacker story was silly and the kid was a horrible actor on
>top of it.
>
>For me, Spader carries the show and any episode that barely
>involves him or has him simply in "Red knows everything" mode
>and he basically captures infamous criminals with little
>effort aren't as entertaining.

Last week's episode where he was in it for like 8 minutes of screen time exposed the gaping holes in this show. Without his presence, the show meandered and was a chore to get through.



>
>The first half of the series was strong but this second half
>feels like they are making it up as they go along and they
>haven't really settled on a strong storyline. To me, it's
>another case of someone keeping facts a mystery (what is the
>husband up to) but it doesn't actually help the show.

Agreed. The first half of the season was fire, IMO. It had energy, spark and James Spader was in fine form. The second half has been a bore. You're right, they haven't settled on a story line. Did they completely drop the storyline about Alan Alda trying to get at Reddington? And what about the investigation of the old woman Reddington shot? This husband thing isn't nearly as interesting it would have been if they played it out in the first half of the season. BTW, I missed the episode where they brought him in for questioning when Lizzy (Worst FBI Agent Ever BTW)first suspected him. How did he get out of that situation? Shouldn't they have been able to see through his fake back story? What's the purpose of all this? To Kill Reddington? To kill Lizzy? They've had plenty of opportunities to do it. It's not like Reddington is a hard man to find now. He's everywhere.



____________________________________
Podcast Now on iTunes and Google:
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Twitter: @nipsey @JTTOUPodcast

Last 3 things I watched:

The Changeling Season 1 (Apple+): C
OMITB Season 3 (Hulu): B-
Ahsoka Season 1 (Disney

  

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Beamer6178
Member since Jan 09th 2006
6379 posts
Tue Apr-01-14 11:13 AM

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86. "a few points"
In response to Reply # 85


  

          

>This is exactly how I've felt about this second half of the
>season.
>
>>I guess you're just more invested in the whole "Who does the
>>husband work for?" angle which I'm not sure why I should
>give
>>a damn about. And they've had a whole season to set up a way
>>for her to discover who the boyfriend is and they make it
>the
>>toy she gave him (and why would he even bring it into his
>>place. And why was she keeping him informed on her every
>>move?)
people do get sloppy when shit starts to unravel. but let's not act like she didn't start to become more suspicious once that chick ended up missing. Red TOLD her something was up with him so it wasn't like she thought he was bullshitting, she just had to be led there herself. eventually she was gonna see it but SHE had to see it.

>Same question my wife and I asked. Why TF did she keep calling
>him to give him progress updates? It couldn't wait till she
>got home from work? Speaking of work. I thought he was a
>teacher. Where does he have the time to run all over town
>killing people and going to his house of operations.
seriously? with as many broken dates and appointments due to her job? he's had enough time to fuck a different broad in their bed three times every episode

>Also, why
>in TV and movies these HQs always have to have a bulletin
>board with dozens of pictures of the "target" with various
>lines drawn from picture to picture. Dude knows what she looks
>like. He doesn't need a serial killer shrine on a push pin
>board.
i'll be honest. writing shit down is a much easier way to organize one's thoughts and ideas. i don't know if that subtlety is conveyed or if they're just trying to remind the audience of everything, but that is a very practical method to use.

>>
>>The hacker story was silly and the kid was a horrible actor
>on
>>top of it.
>>
>>For me, Spader carries the show and any episode that barely
>>involves him or has him simply in "Red knows everything"
>mode
>>and he basically captures infamous criminals with little
>>effort aren't as entertaining.
that's the best part of this. Red DOESN'T know shit about Tom, although he's been trying to. This is where Liz has to advance things because Red is cut off.

>Last week's episode where he was in it for like 8 minutes of
>screen time exposed the gaping holes in this show. Without his
>presence, the show meandered and was a chore to get through.


>Agreed. The first half of the season was fire, IMO. It had
>energy, spark and James Spader was in fine form. The second
>half has been a bore. You're right, they haven't settled on a
>story line. Did they completely drop the storyline about Alan
>Alda trying to get at Reddington? And what about the
>investigation of the old woman Reddington shot? This husband
>thing isn't nearly as interesting it would have been if they
>played it out in the first half of the season. BTW, I missed
>the episode where they brought him in for questioning when
>Lizzy (Worst FBI Agent Ever BTW)first suspected him. How did
>he get out of that situation?
They had nothing on him. He told Liz to take him in for questioning, he was clearly confident they'd have nothing, leading me to think now that he's working for Americans lol

>Shouldn't they have been able to
>see through his fake back story? What's the purpose of all
>this? To Kill Reddington? To kill Lizzy? They've had plenty of
>opportunities to do it. It's not like Reddington is a hard man
>to find now. He's everywhere.
it's gotta be about information at this point. merely killing him won't cut it.

>
>
>

  

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SoulHonky
Member since Jan 21st 2003
25919 posts
Wed Apr-02-14 01:17 PM

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88. "RE: a few points"
In response to Reply # 86


          

>people do get sloppy when shit starts to unravel. but let's
>not act like she didn't start to become more suspicious once
>that chick ended up missing. Red TOLD her something was up
>with him so it wasn't like she thought he was bullshitting,
>she just had to be led there herself. eventually she was
>gonna see it but SHE had to see it.

I think the "He got sloppy" excuse is kind of weak. Throwing that thing away in his hideout makes zero sense. Why would he even bring it in? Why not just leave it in the car? The only reason he has for carrying it into his hideout and throwing it out there is so the writers have an easy way for her to figure out that he was the guy in there. And with a dozen or so episodes before this, they could have figured out something better.

At the very least, use it to give us more insight into him. Maybe he breaks it open because he thinks there's a mic or tracker in there, finds out it's just a toy which makes him believe that she's not on to him, and then he buys a new one to cover his tracks and thoughtlessly throws the broken pieces in the trash.

I guess that's my biggest issue with the show. For a show about deceit and master criminals, everything is too convenient and often has just one purpose - to serve the plot. We get a lame gift that then shows up in the trash to expose dude. It's weak.

Also, if she was suspicious, it just makes her calling the dude and telling him her exact locations all the time even stupider.


>i'll be honest. writing shit down is a much easier way to
>organize one's thoughts and ideas. i don't know if that
>subtlety is conveyed or if they're just trying to remind the
>audience of everything, but that is a very practical method to
>use.

They are jokingly called Exposition Boards. I didn't have a huge problem with it since they're a staple of crime shows but it did seem odd that he has so many pictures of just her as if they didn't know who she was.


>that's the best part of this. Red DOESN'T know shit about Tom,
>although he's been trying to. This is where Liz has to
>advance things because Red is cut off.

I was referring to the episodic stories.
Although Liz can't advance things because she knows even less than Red. Even in this episode, all she did was invite the brother, who Red already should have known about. It's not like she has some inside knowledge. I mean, the big thing she "discovered" was something Red should have seen - the dude hiding a key in the lamp.

>it's gotta be about information at this point. merely killing
>him won't cut it.

Yeah, I don't have much faith in them coming up with a good reason for all of this.(Part of me hopes this is all an evil ruse by Red and then they have to hunt him in season 2 but that would probably mean less Spader in season 2 and I doubt they leave the episodic format of the show)

----
NBA MOCK DRAFT #1 - https://thecourierclass.com/whole-shebang/2017/5/18/2017-nba-mock-draft-1-just-lotto-and-lotta-trades

  

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SoulHonky
Member since Jan 21st 2003
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Wed Apr-02-14 10:48 AM

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87. "Worst use of pop music in a show"
In response to Reply # 0


          

I don't know if NBC is contractually obligated to throw in those songs or if someone just thinks that the audience will get bored with certain scenes so they keep throwing them in but they are almost always out of place and feel off.

I'm tapping out. The overall mystery is beyond boring to me and there are literally no stakes established for it. "Oh no, some mysterious group wants to know what's up with Red because, well, god only knows. Or maybe they are just into Lizzie. We shall see later than sooner." just doesn't do it for me. And the episodic cases are just getting sillier and sillier and the less Red is involved, the more generic they get. And could we at least make life harder for Lizzie so that when she has to juggle her personal case and her FBI case, it's harder than her just saying, "Oh, I have some personal shit to take care of so I'm not gonna help with the case today."

And couldn't Lizzie have at least expressed one iota of emotion when she was told that Red had been filming her this whole time? And why did the guys who were filming her act so surprised about the husband (Who's he working for?) when that was apparently the whole reason they were filming.
"Maybe you can see something I can't" Something like the husband obviously hiding something in the base of the lamp.

So, yeah, I'm done.

----
NBA MOCK DRAFT #1 - https://thecourierclass.com/whole-shebang/2017/5/18/2017-nba-mock-draft-1-just-lotto-and-lotta-trades

  

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ZooTown74
Member since May 29th 2002
43582 posts
Sun May-11-14 06:04 PM

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89. "Post-Super Bowl slot and (eventual) move to Thursday for season 2"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

They'll be on Mondays in the same time slot until November 17, then they'll shift to February 5

I've stopped watching, btw

______________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________
Only losers and herbs believe that OKP = Fun with Words + People's Emotions

  

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SankofaII
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Sun May-11-14 10:15 PM

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90. "RE: Post-Super Bowl slot and (eventual) move to Thursday for season 2"
In response to Reply # 89


  

          

>They'll be on Mondays in the same time slot until November
>17, then they'll shift to February 5
>
>I've stopped watching, btw
>


oh so they'll be doing battle with Scandal and Elementary if both stay on Thursdays...

yea, The Blacklist is going to lose viewers for real...

Get Out the Room
https://itunes.apple.com/us/podcast/get-out-the-room/id525657893

Some of y'all need this in your life: http://www.psychology.com

  

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Frank Longo
Member since Nov 18th 2003
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Tue May-13-14 10:59 PM

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91. "So the father thing seems pretty clear cut at this point. (Spoilers)"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

Berlin had the same photo as Red. And Red is covered in burns, so he was there.

THUS.

Berlin is her father.
Red pulled her out of the fire and gave her to Sam.
If his story is true, Berlin wasn't even at the fire-- she was with either Berlin's enemies or with the folks who helped Berlin's daughter escape her initial captors.
Berlin was imprisoned in Siberia, which makes sense if Red thinks he's actually dead (or even if he knows more than he's letting on, which he usually does-- either way).
Just to put a bow on it in case Berlin ever escaped, in order to make Berlin think his daughter was dead so no one would look for her, he sent Berlin body parts in Siberia to convince him.
Which also explains why Berlin had Elizabeth on the hit list-- he knows she's connected to Red, but he doesn't understand the nature of the connection.

My movies: http://russellhainline.com
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funklectic
Member since May 04th 2005
471 posts
Wed May-14-14 08:54 AM

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92. "RE: So the father thing seems pretty clear cut at this point. (Spoilers)"
In response to Reply # 91


  

          

None of which is compelling enough to warrant viewing Season 2.
Spader should find a better project for his abilities.

  

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SoulHonky
Member since Jan 21st 2003
25919 posts
Wed May-14-14 11:55 AM

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93. "Basically."
In response to Reply # 92


          

Played out the string and watch the full season but man, it fell apart fast. I thought the Berlin stuff was weak and making that even more of the focus of season 2 leaves me with zero interest in the show. Honestly, none of the overall arcs (especially the friggin' husband) were any good IMO.

----
NBA MOCK DRAFT #1 - https://thecourierclass.com/whole-shebang/2017/5/18/2017-nba-mock-draft-1-just-lotto-and-lotta-trades

  

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Beamer6178
Member since Jan 09th 2006
6379 posts
Mon May-19-14 04:03 PM

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94. "I see it differently, Red's wording is very specific"
In response to Reply # 91


  

          

>Berlin had the same photo as Red. And Red is covered in
>burns, so he was there.

"Your father died in the fire that night." He's very specific about how he phrases that. Not that "he's dead," but that "he died in the fire that night." Which I took to mean he was NEVER the same person after that and could no longer BE her father.

I don't yet know his true connection to Berlin, but it doesn't make sense that he would come out of the shadows and risk all he has for some other dude's daughter that he has no emotional connection too. Besides, last season he seemed to have too much familiarity with that house before he blew it up. I don't know if he had an affair with Berlin's wife and if he's Liz's true father, but there is a piece missing here, because absent her being his daughter, it does not adequately explain why he cares so much about her.

I'm guessing next season will explain why and how became Raymond Reddington.


>THUS.
>
>Berlin is her father.
>Red pulled her out of the fire and gave her to Sam.
>If his story is true, Berlin wasn't even at the fire-- she was
>with either Berlin's enemies or with the folks who helped
>Berlin's daughter escape her initial captors.
>Berlin was imprisoned in Siberia, which makes sense if Red
>thinks he's actually dead (or even if he knows more than he's
>letting on, which he usually does-- either way).
>Just to put a bow on it in case Berlin ever escaped, in order
>to make Berlin think his daughter was dead so no one would
>look for her, he sent Berlin body parts in Siberia to convince
>him.
>Which also explains why Berlin had Elizabeth on the hit list--
>he knows she's connected to Red, but he doesn't understand the
>nature of the connection.

  

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Rjcc
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Fri May-15-15 12:54 AM

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96. "well all this speculation fell apart"
In response to Reply # 91


          

I never had a good theory of any kind

www.engadgethd.com - the other stuff i'm looking at

  

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Case_One
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Thu May-14-15 09:03 PM

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95. "Awesome Season Finale. "
In response to Reply # 0


          


.
.
.
"Jesus is my Lord and Savior. And if you believe in him can be your's too."

  

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Beamer6178
Member since Jan 09th 2006
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Tue May-19-15 05:41 PM

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97. "I'd be curious to know how long that had all this in mind"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

It definitely moved a lot more this season, but they dragged out Liz's childhood way too long. It removed all "oh shit" potential by the time they started giving it out.

Now my guess is, the dude he shot was the man her mother was married to finding out her Mom was messing with Red, or it WAS Red she shot.

Would still like to know why he went double agent and into exile in the first place. Clearly it's tied to the Cabal, but not sure why exactly.

  

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