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Subject: "Killing Them Softly (Dominik, 2012)" Previous topic | Next topic
bwood
Member since Apr 03rd 2006
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Thu May-10-12 06:57 PM

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"Killing Them Softly (Dominik, 2012)"


          

Formerly know as Coogan's Trade. Below is a very short clip from the film. Been waiting on this since it was announced. After The Assassination of Jesse James by the Coward Robert Ford, I'll watch anything thing Andrew Dominik does. That picture that was released with Brad Pitt looks gangster. Seems like 2012 has mad gangster ass movies.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TiwskzvhYag

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America from 9:00 on: https://youtu.be/GUwLCQU10KQ

  

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Topic Outline
Subject Author Message Date ID
Some photos from the film
May 11th 2012
1
this movie looks awesome
May 11th 2012
2
BADASS POSTER!!!!
May 21st 2012
3
A reminder
May 22nd 2012
4
Inside Llewyn Davis might sneak in this year.
May 22nd 2012
5
First review is up,,,
May 23rd 2012
6
Some more reviews...
May 23rd 2012
7
New clip niggas!!!
May 25th 2012
8
Offical site
May 30th 2012
9
Finally a fucking trailer.
Aug 02nd 2012
10
i'm excited for this
Aug 02nd 2012
11
i'm in
Aug 06th 2012
12
Just saw it on the weekend.
Oct 21st 2012
13
Damn, some rough notices coming in for this one, huh?
Nov 29th 2012
14
just read Ebert's review. Did he not watch the movie?
Nov 30th 2012
17
      LOL, that happens to Ebert every now and then.
Nov 30th 2012
20
           you mean every time. he's a terrible reviewer and people need to stop
Dec 04th 2012
33
what a good freaking movie
Nov 30th 2012
15
After Jesse James, a massive disappointment. (no spoilers)
Nov 30th 2012
16
^^^My initial reaction as well
Nov 30th 2012
18
Drive at least had a consistent style and tone.
Nov 30th 2012
19
      Style yeah but disagree on the tone
Dec 01st 2012
24
you just convinced me to not care about seeing it in theaters
Nov 30th 2012
21
I like the film.
Dec 01st 2012
22
Prodigy & Goodfellas already used that closing line better
Dec 01st 2012
23
      Yep.
Dec 01st 2012
27
just got back from a matinee
Dec 01st 2012
25
I can understand the mitigated reviews
Dec 01st 2012
26
The Radio/TV stuff reminded me...
Dec 01st 2012
28
Not good at all.
Dec 01st 2012
29
because it was shot in New Oreleans and they didn't really hide that fac...
Dec 01st 2012
30
This review sums pretty much sums it up to me
Dec 04th 2012
31
I think that review gives this way too much credit:
Dec 04th 2012
32
I don't get the hate..I thought it was solid but flawed
Dec 05th 2012
34
Probably the worst movie I paid to see this year.
Dec 05th 2012
35
      The heroin scene was the worst paced scene I've seen in 2012.
Dec 06th 2012
38
           I hated that scene with the fire of a thousand suns
Dec 06th 2012
39
                Directors need to stop this shit immediately:
Dec 06th 2012
40
                I don't give him credit for the heist scene though.
Dec 06th 2012
41
I think the hate on here is making me like it more haha
Dec 06th 2012
36
Soundtrack
Dec 06th 2012
37
This movie was good as hell
Dec 09th 2012
42
disappointed 2.5/5
Dec 09th 2012
43
Massive fucking disappointment. (spoilers)
Jan 07th 2013
44
you nailed it
Jan 07th 2013
45
Go back and watch this movie.
Jan 13th 2023
46
Very sneaky funny too, almost PTA levels at times
Jan 15th 2023
47

bwood
Member since Apr 03rd 2006
8614 posts
Fri May-11-12 01:19 AM

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1. "Some photos from the film"
In response to Reply # 0


          

http://collider.com/cogans-trade-movie-images/145364/#more-145364

Premiering at Cannes for a September 22nd release.

------------------------------------------
America from 9:00 on: https://youtu.be/GUwLCQU10KQ

  

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gumz
Member since Jan 09th 2005
20118 posts
Fri May-11-12 08:27 AM

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2. "this movie looks awesome"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

http://www.youtube.com/user/gumzization
twitter: @BrosefMalone

  

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bwood
Member since Apr 03rd 2006
8614 posts
Mon May-21-12 10:03 PM

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3. "BADASS POSTER!!!!"
In response to Reply # 0


          

http://www.comingsoon.net/news/movienews.php?id=90491

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America from 9:00 on: https://youtu.be/GUwLCQU10KQ

  

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Mageddon
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Tue May-22-12 03:03 PM

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4. "A reminder"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

of how good 2007 was. My taste and expectations changed after that year, and it's good to see favorites like Dominik and PTA, back with new projects this year. (Coen Brothers, where ya at?)

I'm excited about this one.

  

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ricky_BUTLER
Member since Jul 06th 2003
16899 posts
Tue May-22-12 06:55 PM

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5. "Inside Llewyn Davis might sneak in this year."
In response to Reply # 4


          

>(Coen Brothers, where
>ya at?)

  

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bwood
Member since Apr 03rd 2006
8614 posts
Wed May-23-12 01:03 PM

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6. "First review is up,,,"
In response to Reply # 0


          

From the sounds of it I'm gonna eat this up...


http://www.aintitcool.com/node/55937

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America from 9:00 on: https://youtu.be/GUwLCQU10KQ

  

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bwood
Member since Apr 03rd 2006
8614 posts
Wed May-23-12 01:12 PM

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7. "Some more reviews..."
In response to Reply # 6


          

http://www.hitfix.com/motion-captured/review-killing-them-softly-uses-brad-pitt-as-a-blunt-instrument/

http://www.firstshowing.net/2012/cannes-2012-review-andrew-dominiks-brutal-killing-them-softly/

http://news.moviefone.com/dan-mecca/killing-them-softly-review_b_1536163.html

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/culture/film/cannes-film-festival/9284546/Cannes-2012-Killing-Them-Softly-review.html

http://www.guardian.co.uk/film/2012/may/22/killing-them-softly-review

http://twitchfilm.com/reviews/2012/05/cannes-2012-review-killing-them-softly-murders-them-stylishly.php?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+TwitchReviews+%28Twitch%3A+Reviews%29

http://www.filmschoolrejects.com/reviews/cannes-review-killing-them-softly-sgall.php

http://www.filmschoolrejects.com/reviews/cannes-review-killing-them-softly-sgall.php

http://www.thewrap.com/movies/column-post/cannes-review-killing-them-softly-has-brad-pitt-splattered-blood-dirty-money-and-no-regr

2012 is a great year to be a cinephile...

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America from 9:00 on: https://youtu.be/GUwLCQU10KQ

  

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bwood
Member since Apr 03rd 2006
8614 posts
Fri May-25-12 03:31 PM

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8. "New clip niggas!!!"
In response to Reply # 0


          

http://www.ign.com/videos/2012/05/25/brad-pitts-preferred-method-of-killing

I just wish they'd release a trailer already.

------------------------------------------
America from 9:00 on: https://youtu.be/GUwLCQU10KQ

  

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bwood
Member since Apr 03rd 2006
8614 posts
Wed May-30-12 05:27 PM

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9. "Offical site"
In response to Reply # 0


          

http://killingthemsoftlymovie.com/

------------------------------------------
America from 9:00 on: https://youtu.be/GUwLCQU10KQ

  

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bwood
Member since Apr 03rd 2006
8614 posts
Thu Aug-02-12 06:29 AM

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10. "Finally a fucking trailer."
In response to Reply # 0


          

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4RaEF2aIbJQ

My most anticipated Weinstein film of the fall.

------------------------------------------
America from 9:00 on: https://youtu.be/GUwLCQU10KQ

  

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astralblak
Member since Apr 05th 2007
20029 posts
Thu Aug-02-12 02:50 PM

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11. "i'm excited for this"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

.

  

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lfresh
Member since Jun 18th 2002
92696 posts
Mon Aug-06-12 09:58 AM

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12. "i'm in"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

trailer

http://news.moviefone.com/2012/08/01/killing-them-softly-trailer-brad-pitt_n_1728740.html



like the site clip as well

http://killingthemsoftlymovie.com/

~~~~
When you are born, you cry, and the world rejoices. Live so that when you die, you rejoice, and the world cries.
~~~~
You cannot hate people for their own good.

  

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Anfernee
Member since Nov 11th 2004
24780 posts
Sun Oct-21-12 10:20 PM

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13. "Just saw it on the weekend."
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

Started out a little slow for me with the junkie dude and shit, but definitely picked up when Brad Pitt and Tony Soprano stepped into it.

Brad Pitt is that dude.

That guy been on a roll, man.

_________________________________________________________

http://www.angryasianman.com

  

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The Analyst
Member since Sep 22nd 2007
4621 posts
Thu Nov-29-12 12:24 PM

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14. "Damn, some rough notices coming in for this one, huh?"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

A.O. Scott: "the movie is more concerned with conjuring an aura of meaningfulness than with actually meaning anything."

2 Stars from Ebert.

Still looking forward to it, though...

----

  

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navajo joe
Member since Apr 13th 2005
6573 posts
Fri Nov-30-12 09:08 PM

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17. "just read Ebert's review. Did he not watch the movie?"
In response to Reply # 14


          

his description of Gandolfini's character is SO off it's really shocking that got printed up.

i have more issues w/ his review than with the movie



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A lot of you players ain't okay.

We would have been better off with an okaycivics board instead of an okayactivist board

  

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Frank Longo
Member since Nov 18th 2003
86672 posts
Fri Nov-30-12 10:40 PM

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20. "LOL, that happens to Ebert every now and then."
In response to Reply # 17


  

          

If it's a movie he doesn't like, and he's describing something that happens about halfway through, it's a lock that some detail will be described inaccurately.

My movies: http://russellhainline.com
My movie reviews: https://letterboxd.com/RussellHFilm/
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Rjcc
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33. "you mean every time. he's a terrible reviewer and people need to stop"
In response to Reply # 20


          

sucking him off.

http://card.mygamercard.net/lastgame/rjcc.png

www.engadgethd.com - the other stuff i'm looking at

  

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Crash Bandacoot
Member since May 13th 2003
10119 posts
Fri Nov-30-12 01:51 PM

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15. "what a good freaking movie"
In response to Reply # 0


          

was not expecting that. great acting and the cinematography was outstanding.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

"It is better to be silent and thought a fool than to open your mouth and remove all doubt"

  

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Frank Longo
Member since Nov 18th 2003
86672 posts
Fri Nov-30-12 03:58 PM

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16. "After Jesse James, a massive disappointment. (no spoilers)"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

The tone for me was a big problem. I should say tones, not tone.

1. The visuals are all over the place tonally. Really gritty and dark at times, then out of nowhere chock a block with stylish camera shifts and polished effects. The type of movie that'll use shaky handheld in one scene, then five minutes later present you with slow motion special effects exquisitely framed. Felt like Dominik didn't want to make it dark, but didn't want to make it polished, so he just kinda winged it. Boy oh boy, did he miss Roger Deakins.

2. Same with the script's tone, really. Goes from nihilism to screwball in no time flat, goes from Mametian tough talk to political statement in no time flat, goes from moments of emotion to James Gandolfini making an anus joke in no time flat. Thus, the jokes never landed for me-- not one. And dark comedy is usually my bag. This just sounded like imitation Mamet minus the style.

3. I didn't have a problem with the overt political stuff... but Scott absolutely nailed that it makes very obvious proclamations without having anything to say. What's the statement? Americans like money? Coulda done that without the political stuff. Politicians are greedy liars? What's the point of telling it this way? It seems like it thinks it's being controversial and deep, when more or less every film noir has done these statements since the 1940s without the political clips.

4. The pacing is atrocious. This felt longer than Jesse James to me... which should say something. Jesse James felt very even keeled and smooth with its drawn out demeanor. This just sags. And again, "talky" movies are ABSOLUTELY my bag (Cosmopolis and Seven Psychopaths are two of my favorites this year). But it's got to be going somewhere, and it has to have a point, and it has to be properly paced.

The performances are all fine, especially Scoot McNairy, who has kind of ruled this year, and Ray Liotta, who is given very little to do but nails what he gets.

But this doesn't sniff Jesse James and has to be considered a massive disappointment considering the five year wait.

My movies: http://russellhainline.com
My movie reviews: https://letterboxd.com/RussellHFilm/
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jigga
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Fri Nov-30-12 10:10 PM

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18. "^^^My initial reaction as well"
In response to Reply # 16


  

          

I kept waiting for it to pop but it never did. The political stuff was heavy handed w/o sayin much. Had no problem with any of the acting performances & yeah McNairy was great once again as was Ben Mendelsohn.

But this was a step back to something more along the lines of Chopper (which I only really liked for Bana's performance) Pitt's performance here is fine but not Oscar worthy like I hearing in the ads. I didn't think he was all that great last year in Moneyball either but I'll digress.

For me this was similar to Drive. I liked all the noirish elements but it just wasn't enough overall. Style over substance. Kinda reminded me of Killer Joe at times as well.

Would've liked to have a seen a scene between Tony Soprano & Johnny Sack too.

  

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Frank Longo
Member since Nov 18th 2003
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Fri Nov-30-12 10:18 PM

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19. "Drive at least had a consistent style and tone."
In response to Reply # 18


  

          

This was a movie that from scene to scene varied. I'd enjoy a scene and think the film is settling down, just to have some strange stylistic shift or music cue or sudden change of tone jar me.

My movies: http://russellhainline.com
My movie reviews: https://letterboxd.com/RussellHFilm/
My beer TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@thebeertravelguide

  

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jigga
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Sat Dec-01-12 11:48 AM

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24. "Style yeah but disagree on the tone"
In response to Reply # 19


  

          

Drive went from quiet lovey dovey to ridiculously violent in the blink of an eye

>This was a movie that from scene to scene varied. I'd enjoy a
>scene and think the film is settling down, just to have some
>strange stylistic shift or music cue or sudden change of tone
>jar me.

I did like a couple of those music cues. The song playing in Frankie's car after he found out Russ talked that was sampled by Xzibit, Ras Kass & Saafir for 3 card molly. Also liked the song played when Mickey got off the plane & DOOM sampled for Monkey Suite

  

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Benedict the Moor
Member since Dec 06th 2011
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Fri Nov-30-12 11:59 PM

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21. "you just convinced me to not care about seeing it in theaters"
In response to Reply # 16


  

          

thanks

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xbenzive
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Sat Dec-01-12 08:24 AM

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22. "I like the film. "
In response to Reply # 0
Sat Dec-01-12 08:27 AM by xbenzive

          

I think Frank nailed it in his review.

It's a step down to Jesse James but my expectations were very low. I saw the first initial clip only, didn't bother with the trailer.

I went into the film's strength of Dominik and Pitt, not knowing anything else. I didn't read any reviews.

Of course there are disappointing aspects in the film, like tone and the script overall. Great performances though.

Reminded me of The American. But then again, I love The American.

The real question is, which rapper is going to use the last couple of sentences of the film for their album?

  

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jigga
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Sat Dec-01-12 11:11 AM

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23. "Prodigy & Goodfellas already used that closing line better"
In response to Reply # 22


  

          


>The real question is, which rapper is going to use the last
>couple of sentences of the film for their album?

  

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xbenzive
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Sat Dec-01-12 04:23 PM

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27. "Yep."
In response to Reply # 23


          

Undoubtedly, but I can see ASAP Rocky or Kendrick Lamar using it. It might not have the same weight but someone will use it.

  

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DJ007
Member since Apr 06th 2003
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Sat Dec-01-12 02:13 PM

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25. "just got back from a matinee"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

saw what they tried to do but it just didn't work for me though, everything was just .....meh... to me...lol
__________________________________________________________
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benny
Member since Jan 15th 2003
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Sat Dec-01-12 02:57 PM

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26. "I can understand the mitigated reviews"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

I really liked it because of the acting (Gandolfini kiiilled it, but almost every main character save for Squirrel was good) and sound/visual design. Guess I'm a sucker for 70s style lighting
Yeah the political stuff felt more on the nose than a coke addict, but I saw it more as a comment on a very specific moment in US history (which strangely has been mostly forgotten about because it's more convenient that way) to reflect on what is going on today. I loved the intro for that, though I could've done without the pan up to the Obama poster. For sure we didn't need THAT many scenes with a political speeches playing, then again what else was on TV in the midst of that campaign and the financial crisis.
I loved the closing scene because it was both easy and truthful. Kinda like Brad Pitt's character. He goes for the uncomplicated route and doesn't fool around, and it works

------------------------------
For the record, my teams:
MLB: Mets / Soccer: PSG
NCAA BB: Arizona / NCAA FB: Michigan
NBA: Spurs / NFL: Jets

  

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xbenzive
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Sat Dec-01-12 04:27 PM

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28. "The Radio/TV stuff reminded me..."
In response to Reply # 26


          

of Ghost Dog. How Jarmusch used the classic cartoons on TV in a ironic but foreshadowing commentary for the film. The thing about this film is that it's so jarring and slightly overbearing that it takes you out sometimes. Wished Dominik had a better way to convey it.

  

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The Analyst
Member since Sep 22nd 2007
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Sat Dec-01-12 09:28 PM

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29. "Not good at all. "
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

Man. Outside of the acting, just about every facet of this thing was incompetently done. Yes, certain sequences work *individually* (the robbery, for example), but they just don't congeal at all, and that's the result of poor directing and unfocused writing.

I can't think of a movie I've seen in recently that was more heavy-handed. Having Bush, Obama, and McCain narrate the movie was a major miscalculation. Mob movies have been used as a metaphor for the perversion of capitalism and the American Dream since practically the beginning of the genre - most of them, though don't smother you with it, beat you over the head with it, ram it down your throat, and, at the end, give you an explicit recap just to be completely sure you got it.

And how many more fucking times are we going to see scenes with close-ups of guns firing in ultra slow-motion while ironic pop/rock songs play and blood splatters all over the place (also in ultra slo-mo).

Just a big, disappointing misfire for me.

Also, on an unrelated note - is there a reason everyone is saying this is in New Orleans? They mentioned at least four Boston suburbs and McNairy was speaking in that awful Boston accent the whole time. I also thought the book was set in Boston. Just wondering...

----

  

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navajo joe
Member since Apr 13th 2005
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Sat Dec-01-12 09:55 PM

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30. "because it was shot in New Oreleans and they didn't really hide that fac..."
In response to Reply # 29


          

but yeah they kept referencing Boston and of course Cogan's Trade takes place there.

-------------------------------

A lot of you players ain't okay.

We would have been better off with an okaycivics board instead of an okayactivist board

  

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navajo joe
Member since Apr 13th 2005
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Tue Dec-04-12 02:41 PM

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31. "This review sums pretty much sums it up to me"
In response to Reply # 0


          

I did however love Gandolfini and his work in this. There is obviously lot of movie left on the floor here unfortunatately they lift in a good bit of pointless material. This is a minor movie and they should have let it be that. There are a lot of really good fucking movies about minor fucking things. Had they let the political stuff be subtext rather than THE text they could have had something.


"Killing Them Softly is a Bad Good Movie"

http://badassdigest.com/2012/12/02/movie-review-killing-them-softly-is-a-bad-good-movie/

Killing Them Softly is exactly the kind of film I hate to review but love to discuss, a film just interesting and ambitious enough to ably disguise what might be genuine failure. It obviously has some big ideas and doesn't mess around with subtlety. But the execution is muddy enough that I'm not sure if it succeeds. If you like crime films, you should probably go see it. If you're looking for a follow up to The Assassination of Jesse James by the Coward Robert Ford, I don't think you'll come away very happy.

This is a very talky movie. Overly so. That approach can be either thrilling or a bore, and Killing Them Softly falls somewhere in between. Despite the script's best attempts, conversations often go on much longer than necessary and fail to justify their length with the interesting notes and details that might normally add to and embellish characters and their world. The James Gandolfini scenes are particular offenders in this regard. A lot of time goes to this nearly superfluous character, but his inclusion to the story ultimately offers only thematic reinforcement rather than narrative value, and it's just not worth the investment.

Some of the conversations find better success. Pretty much any time Richard Jenkins (who once again plays Richard Jenkins) and Brad Pitt talk, things get more electric. Pitt's not really embodying anything with his performance, here. The writing easily defines his character beyond any typical Hollywood blandness, but he chooses to underact the part. It's sort of the opposite of his Ocean's performances, where he just gets by on being Brad Pitt. It's Mirror Universe default Pitt, complete with goatee. That means instead of smiling a lot and eating food in every scene, he just looks tired and smoke bunches of cigarettes.

His character represents old school mob ideals, which clash with the new corporate mob mentality presented by Jenkins' exasperated middle-man. Pitt and Jenkins have good chemistry, and their scenes together provide the glue that holds the whole enterprise together, both narratively and thematically. Since so much of this works it would be erroneous to call the film a total failure. These two share the film's incredible Coen Bros.- esque closing scene, which either brings the whole film together or takes it one step too far into preachy territory depending on whether you think it's okay to build an entire feature around a point Brad Pitt's character can sum up in one sentence, and was probably already said better in No Country for Old Men.

A lot has been made about Killing Them Softly's politics, which are unavoidable since nearly every scene contains some video or audio of either Obama, Bush 2, or McCain talking about the 2008 Financial Crisis. The connection between desperate criminal activities and a looming recession manage to somehow be simultaneously unclear and embarrassingly obvious. I don't really know why a movie about a robbed card game and shifting mob business practices needs to have so many news clips, but I do know that I rolled my eyes when Jenkins gives Pitt less money than expected and refers to it as "recession" price.

Actually I do know why the film needs this stuff. Its narrative is so stock that it would be useless without aspiring to be about something more. Thanks to America's "every man for himself" mentality, two dumbass criminals (one of whom is Australian) knock off Ray Liotta's card game, and Brad Pitt has to get them for it. That's pretty much it. The thematic stuff supposedly justifies the film. The actual film does not.

Of the two dummies, you're supposed to care about the nice one played by Scoot McNairy, who is basically just doing a Casey Affleck impression. We don't spend that much time with him though. Once Brad Pitt shows up, the film goes into a long period where McNairy and his partner are absent from the narrative so we can hear James Gandolfini breathe a lot. While we sympathize with McNairy for his ability to look scared and out of his league, we don't actually get to know him very well.

Really the unsung star of the film is Ray Liotta as a character put through so much misery that his repeated tragedies occasionally blur into near Looney Tunes exaggeration. WIth very little screen time and dialogue, Liotta somehow manages to create the film's most complete character, but it's unclear whether director Andrew Dominik actually knows that or just got lucky.

Speaking of Dominik, his stylistic choices offer yet another angle in which Killing Them Softly both fails and succeeds. Visual embellishments fill the film, some minor and some calling great attention to themselves. Almost none of them serve much purpose, though. That's not necessarily a bad thing. We go to films to see cool stuff, after all. But like a lot with this film, certain stylistic sequences start well but go on long enough to wear out their welcome. A scene where Dominik attempts to visually translate a heroin user's experience being on the nod, goes from interesting to aggravating pretty quickly. On the other hand, Killing Them Softly has some of my favorite opening credits of the year. Dominic's work isn't awful, but it lacks the assured beauty of The Assassination of Jesse James and seems like an unexpected step backwards.

In the end, Killing Them Softly might achieve its thematic ambition, but its intended statement is smaller than you'd think and may not be worth the examination. It offers occasional pleasures, but earns neither the praise nor the disdain people have been giving it.

-------------------------------

A lot of you players ain't okay.

We would have been better off with an okaycivics board instead of an okayactivist board

  

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The Analyst
Member since Sep 22nd 2007
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Tue Dec-04-12 03:27 PM

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32. "I think that review gives this way too much credit:"
In response to Reply # 31


  

          

"These two (Pitt & Jenkins) share the film's incredible Coen Bros.- esque closing scene, which either brings the whole film together or takes it one step too far into preachy territory depending on whether you think it's okay to build an entire feature around a point Brad Pitt's character can sum up in one sentence..."

Incredible closing scene?? Coen Brothers-esque??!? The fuck is this dude smoking? It was one of the worst endings I've seen in a so-called serious film in a long while.

He says the movie has to try to aspire to be about something greater than it's face-value mob story, because...why? Ain't nothing wrong with doing a genre movie and doing it well, and sprinkling in some subtext along the way. Instead, this fucking thing was like being bludgeoned over the head with a cast-iron frying pan, and it totally wrecked the movie. And the "message" wasn't even anything remotely original or insightful or edgy.

On top of that, I just felt there was air of general incompetence that I had a hard time ignoring.

As for that review, in that passage I quoted above, the reviewer can't decide if the closing sequence brings the movie together or undermines it. The whole review is like that - he doesn't seem to want to take a firm position on anything, almost like he's not sure what to thing, so he's taking every position to cover his bases.

One way or the other, this thing was a huge disappointment and a waste of talent.

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BigReg
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Wed Dec-05-12 10:47 AM

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34. "I don't get the hate..I thought it was solid but flawed"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

The movie has one BIG flaw...the political message as a voice over is so annoying that it cheapens the whole effect. What would have been a great speech to end the movie with ended up coming off as a lackluster payoff since it was forshadowed the whole movie. I don't think it was big enough to tank the whole movie as some make it sound...


Great performances.
I thought the tone was pretty consistent...well as consistent as those dark comedies can be
and it was genuinely funny

  

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ricky_BUTLER
Member since Jul 06th 2003
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Wed Dec-05-12 07:18 PM

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35. "Probably the worst movie I paid to see this year."
In response to Reply # 34


          

>The movie has one BIG flaw...the political message as a voice
>over is so annoying that it cheapens the whole effect. What
>would have been a great speech to end the movie with ended up
>coming off as a lackluster payoff since it was forshadowed the
>whole movie. I don't think it was big enough to tank the
>whole movie as some make it sound...

What about the heroin scene?

What about the hooker scene?

Those didn't feel the least bit plodding? The movie dragged (like, draaaaaaaaaaaaagged). The last scene and the first two, maybe, were fine pacing-wise, but everything else played way too long. In the end there were maybe a dozen or so scenes, and most of them were bad. The political stuff didn't kill it, it just threw on the dirt.

  

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Frank Longo
Member since Nov 18th 2003
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Thu Dec-06-12 04:03 PM

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38. "The heroin scene was the worst paced scene I've seen in 2012."
In response to Reply # 35


  

          


>What about the heroin scene?

And I saw Tyler Perry's Madea's Witness Protection, which contained three consecutive scenes of introducing every main character by name to other characters.

My movies: http://russellhainline.com
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navajo joe
Member since Apr 13th 2005
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Thu Dec-06-12 04:06 PM

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39. "I hated that scene with the fire of a thousand suns"
In response to Reply # 38


          

anything w/ those two other than the heist (which was masterful) was awful but that really took the cake. plus setting it to Velvet Underground's "Heroin" is just fucking lame.

-------------------------------

A lot of you players ain't okay.

We would have been better off with an okaycivics board instead of an okayactivist board

  

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The Analyst
Member since Sep 22nd 2007
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Thu Dec-06-12 05:21 PM

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40. "Directors need to stop this shit immediately:"
In response to Reply # 39


  

          

>plus
>setting it to Velvet Underground's "Heroin" is just fucking
>lame.


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ricky_BUTLER
Member since Jul 06th 2003
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Thu Dec-06-12 09:32 PM

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41. "I don't give him credit for the heist scene though."
In response to Reply # 39


          

It went long too but given that it was a tense scene, that going-too-long M.O. upped the anxiety level appropriately, so it seems like a win. But in the overall context of the movie, that's more dumb luck than skill / a good decision I think, like a baseball player with a terrible swing who happens into a hit.

I love Jesse James but really think this was so horrendous it makes me rethink Dominik, even that film. That movie had a great cast, incredible cinematography, terrific score, fascinating source material, etc., and how much of those elements did Dominik direct into being or just "luck" into. Moreover, the version we all know is apparently a compromised cut. Should we have hoped for a compromised cut of Killing Them Softly?*

>plus
>setting it to Velvet Underground's "Heroin" is just fucking
>lame.

Most of the song choices fell flat. Reminds me that the one flaw in Jesse James is the song sung by the daughter right before the assassination.


*And this is the one knock I have against Megan Ellison: incredible financier, but is she much consequence as a producer (in the Scott Rudin sense of the word)?

  

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benny
Member since Jan 15th 2003
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Thu Dec-06-12 11:56 AM

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36. "I think the hate on here is making me like it more haha"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

will probably try to go see it again, to confirm my initial thoughts, but I want to say this is maybe the best film I've seen about the 2008 meltdown. Waaay better than Margin Call which IMO was even less subtle but for some reason won tons of acclaim.

I like that Dominik goes all in on the political/systemic aspect. He wants to firmly ground it in a specific epoch, to remind everyone ain't a damn thing changed since. Would a classic noir have used such a time-capsuled maneuver as he does with the many speeches on TV? No, but then again I'm pretty sure filmmakers then wouldn't have dared speak out against a former president in name, let alone a sitting one.

I'm not surprised a lot of people were put off by it, but then again I don't think many movies were left untouched by PTP this year (save perhaps BOSW or The Grey). But it's interesting to me that lots of people seem to view this movie as a failure.

------------------------------
For the record, my teams:
MLB: Mets / Soccer: PSG
NCAA BB: Arizona / NCAA FB: Michigan
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little bredren
Member since Apr 18th 2005
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Thu Dec-06-12 02:49 PM

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37. "Soundtrack"
In response to Reply # 0
Thu Dec-06-12 02:51 PM by little bredren

  

          

Sure, the economic crisis analogy was way too heavy-handed and half-baked, but everything else was incredible, from cinematography to mood/atmosphere to acting. To call this a failure is absurd. Best of 2012 imo, along with The Grey.

I've compiled a bunch of songs from KTS's soundtrack if anyone's interested. It's my favourite this year.

http://recordinglivefromsomewhere.com/2012/12/06/music-from-andrew-dominiks-killing-them-softly-petula-clark-windmills-of-your-mind-ketty-lester-love-letters-barrett-strong-money-thats-what-i-want/

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kayru99
Member since Jan 26th 2004
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Sun Dec-09-12 09:55 AM

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42. "This movie was good as hell"
In response to Reply # 0


          

I haven't seen Jesse James, but this movie worked really well for me.

And I thought the heroin scene was actually pretty creative...at least, *I've* never seen one filmed that way.

And Tony Soprano was funny/sad as hell.

As for the tones of the film, modern indy cinema is all about mashing up genres.

Yeah this wasn't a top ten movie for me this year, but it is a pretty good movie

  

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astralblak
Member since Apr 05th 2007
20029 posts
Sun Dec-09-12 09:09 PM

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43. "disappointed 2.5/5"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

looked fantastic, nice sound engineering/editing, good acting

but overall it felt monotonous and kind of meandered and there was no real gravitas to the story that made the killings matter

the end

  

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PlanetInfinite
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Mon Jan-07-13 03:38 PM

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44. "Massive fucking disappointment. (spoilers)"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

I'm so glad I didn't peep it first week it came out like I originally planned.

I love dialogue. One of my favorite films is 12 Angry Men. I actually think some dialogue scenes are more action packed than the last 30 minutes of Transformers 3.

This shit was all words and no development of any kind. It seemed like everybody (with the exception of Gandolfini and Liotta) was just delivering lines or were just THERE.

They actually wasted the two best parts of that film on some bullshit. Liotta goes out midway through the flick (in a sleek fashion, which I liked) but Gandolfini just peaces out via a snitching?

And I LOVED Gandolfini's character. An over the edge hitman on a downward spiral? Hitting the alcohol too hard? Using hookers like tissues? That's fascinating to me and deserved better closure.

Then the ending. It seemed like they clumsily shoehorned that 2008 election subplot into the film then thought that some shitty monologue by Pitt would satisfy the viewer? What? What does that even mean? How is that even relevant to what I just spent an hour and a half watching?

Apparently the film was supposed to be 2.5 hours long and sort of a "...Jesse James" reunion because Garret Dillahunt cameo'd and was cut out.

I'd probably like another hour of that if it wasn't so fucking dull.

The saving grace of the whole film was Gandolfini, Liotta's presence, and Scoot McNairy (who plays a really good nervous dude). The cinematography was good except that the settings were so bland and indistinguishable that it didn't stop me from dozing off during these long drawling non-sensical dialogue volleys between characters that I really didn't like that much.

Ugh.


i'm out.
_____________________
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astralblak
Member since Apr 05th 2007
20029 posts
Mon Jan-07-13 07:26 PM

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45. "you nailed it"
In response to Reply # 44


  

          

.

  

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Buddy_Gilapagos
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Fri Jan-13-23 10:40 PM

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46. "Go back and watch this movie."
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

You will realize it's way better than you remember it.

And it was ahead of it's time. It's a movie that describes the trump era made during the Obama era.




**********
"Everyone has a plan until you punch them in the face. Then they don't have a plan anymore." (c) Mike Tyson

"what's a leader if he isn't reluctant"

  

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Nodima
Member since Jul 30th 2008
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Sun Jan-15-23 11:01 AM

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47. "Very sneaky funny too, almost PTA levels at times"
In response to Reply # 46


  

          

Solid 4/5 flick, I love it.

I also think the political angle is made way too much of, I’m way more interested in Ben Mendelsohn at his absolute slimiest and yet somehow Scoot matches him at every turn.

Thinking about how good this movie is just makes me more upset about Blonde. With just two movies Dominik is absolutely one of my core guys but man…

~~~~~~~~~
"This is the streets, and I am the trap." � Jay Bilas
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