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Lobby Pass The Popcorn topic #605010

Subject: "Entertaining, ambitious hot-messes" Previous topic | Next topic
AnonymousCoward
Member since Sep 17th 2002
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Tue Apr-03-12 05:15 PM

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"Entertaining, ambitious hot-messes"


  

          

This inspired by the Bamboozled post in GD. I LOVE Bamboozled, but it's wildly uneven an poorly excecuted. That said, I still think it's one of the most compelling films of its era.

I'd have to add Ang Lee's Hulk to the list. He shit the bed with the villain, but everything else tried was really interesting. Save for the cheezy comic pannels, and source material, it isn't really a comic book movie...at least not in the way we've come to think it them. It's a pretty cerebral film.

http://clydefrazierapproves.com/
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"Like 4 out of 5 things you say on OKP offend me." -FireBrand

  

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Topic Outline
Subject Author Message Date ID
I'd Add: Do the Right Thing & School Daze
Apr 03rd 2012
1
You only have one of those right
Apr 03rd 2012
2
How the hell is 'Do the Right Thing' a hot mess?!??
Apr 04th 2012
5
      agreed
Apr 04th 2012
6
      ^^^ this
Apr 04th 2012
7
      diasgree
Apr 04th 2012
9
      smiley & buggin out could get elimanated?!
Apr 06th 2012
31
           good characters
Apr 06th 2012
33
                I'd like to hear what taking them out does for the story being told
Apr 06th 2012
45
      NO ITS NOT SPIKES BEST FILM
Apr 06th 2012
26
      to me it plays like a series of set pieces
Apr 04th 2012
8
      RE: to me it plays like a series of set pieces
Apr 04th 2012
10
      ^^^^^^
Apr 04th 2012
17
Casino is the poster child for this category
Apr 04th 2012
3
agreed
Apr 06th 2012
27
John Carter.
Apr 04th 2012
4
fuck what y'all heard, I still watch the Final Fantasy movie
Apr 04th 2012
11
hot messes:
Apr 04th 2012
12
Watchmen.
Apr 04th 2012
13
good call, I think it woulda been good w/ a different Ozymandias
Apr 04th 2012
15
RE: good call, I think it woulda been good w/ a different Ozymandias
Apr 06th 2012
43
yes
Apr 06th 2012
28
Spiderman 3.
Apr 04th 2012
14
no BS -- I've rewatched Tron: Legacy a few times already
Apr 04th 2012
16
Gangs of New York
Apr 04th 2012
18
Ugh you just reminded me of the last shot.
Apr 04th 2012
19
such a waste of one of the greatest characters ever tho
Apr 04th 2012
20
i fucn hate that movie
Apr 06th 2012
29
Baby Boy
Apr 04th 2012
21
Fuck yo fort
Apr 04th 2012
22
He said he meant for the movie to be one long NWA skit
Apr 04th 2012
23
Natural Born Killers
Apr 05th 2012
24
HOW Y'ALL JUST GON FORGET THIS JOUNT
Apr 05th 2012
25
LOFL
Apr 06th 2012
30
maybe this just means you like entertaining messes?
Apr 06th 2012
37
      There's a difference between being 'flawed' & being a 'hot mess.'
Apr 06th 2012
41
           Understood
Apr 06th 2012
46
Mars Attacks, Brain Candy, American Dreamz
Apr 06th 2012
32
Brain Candy is amazing
Apr 06th 2012
34
      Yes it is.
Apr 06th 2012
38
      yeah, "hot mess"? hell no, that movie was ahead of its time
Apr 06th 2012
39
Kung Pow: Enter the Fist
Apr 06th 2012
35
Darktown Strutters or Get down and Boogie
Apr 06th 2012
36
Ridley Scott's Gladiator
Apr 06th 2012
40
Point of Order: 3-6 Mafia having one proves the Oscars suck
Apr 06th 2012
42
Sure. Too bad there wasn't a better song that year.
Apr 06th 2012
44
^^^^^
Apr 06th 2012
47
Chicago/The Bodyguard/Alexander
Apr 06th 2012
48
and How Stella Got Her Groove Back
Apr 06th 2012
49
The Bodyguard really wasn't that ambitious
Apr 06th 2012
50
That's not the way it was advertised, though.
Apr 07th 2012
51
      (this should be interesting) So, it was advertised as a blockbuster?
Apr 07th 2012
54
*pumps brakes* Chicago is FANTASTIC.
Apr 07th 2012
53
you could argue, but you'd be dead wrong
Apr 07th 2012
55
I'm probably the biggest Colin Farrell apologist here, but Alexander?
Apr 07th 2012
56
Big Willie's Wild Wild West
Apr 07th 2012
52
Ang Lee's Hulk is less of a hot-mess than Louis Leterrier's
Apr 07th 2012
57

Selah
Member since Jun 05th 2002
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Tue Apr-03-12 05:46 PM

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1. "I'd Add: Do the Right Thing & School Daze"
In response to Reply # 0


          

in both cases a bunch of stuff happened related to the themes but at the end non-"cinema" type viewers are left saying/thinking

okay...so what was that exactly?

also the sex scenes in both were random and did nothing for the movies overall

  

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ZooTown74
Member since May 29th 2002
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Tue Apr-03-12 06:42 PM

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2. "You only have one of those right"
In response to Reply # 1


  

          

And tuning in to early Spike Lee films and expecting a "plot" is an exercise in futility

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The Analyst
Member since Sep 22nd 2007
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Wed Apr-04-12 09:47 AM

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5. "How the hell is 'Do the Right Thing' a hot mess?!?? "
In response to Reply # 1


  

          

You Buggin Out. That's one of the great movies of the last 25 years.

----

  

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colonelk
Member since Dec 10th 2002
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Wed Apr-04-12 10:38 AM

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6. "agreed"
In response to Reply # 5


  

          

Do The Right Things is brilliantly structured. It is not a traditional narrative, but it is perfectly realized. Every character serves a function, every scene sets up the power of the film's climax.

It's easily Spike's best film.

--------

hell-below.com

  

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Frank Longo
Member since Nov 18th 2003
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Wed Apr-04-12 12:04 PM

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7. "^^^ this"
In response to Reply # 6


  

          

11/13: Hot Frosty (on Netflix)
11/23: Three Wiser Men & A Boy (on Hallmark)
11/27: Christmas Under the Lights (on Hallmark Mysteries)
12/14: The Santa Class (on Hallmark)

  

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Selah
Member since Jun 05th 2002
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Wed Apr-04-12 12:30 PM

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9. "diasgree"
In response to Reply # 6


          

there are a bunch of character that if removed the movie would not suffer

examples: smiley and buggin out's entire crew

they were well played but didn't serve the story

the premise of this post is "entertaining" (check), "ambitious" (no doubt), hot mess (i stand that it could have been tighter)

i like the movie

you don't have to agree with my opinion

it's OK

  

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Binlahab
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31. "smiley & buggin out could get elimanated?!"
In response to Reply # 9


  

          

youre tripping


do or die

  

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Selah
Member since Jun 05th 2002
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33. "good characters"
In response to Reply # 31


          

but in no way necessary

  

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ZooTown74
Member since May 29th 2002
43582 posts
Fri Apr-06-12 06:00 PM

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45. "I'd like to hear what taking them out does for the story being told"
In response to Reply # 33


  

          

Aside from "make stuff happen faster"

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astralblak
Member since Apr 05th 2007
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Fri Apr-06-12 01:08 AM

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26. "NO ITS NOT SPIKES BEST FILM"
In response to Reply # 6


  

          

.

  

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Selah
Member since Jun 05th 2002
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8. "to me it plays like a series of set pieces"
In response to Reply # 5


          

loosely tied together

all that happened in ONE DAY on ONE BLOCK?

nah

as with most of his movies he had a lot to say and ideas for characters (or a lot of ideas for things related to "race" as a general framework) and tried to get them all in

but it did not flow well at all

  

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The Analyst
Member since Sep 22nd 2007
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Wed Apr-04-12 01:33 PM

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10. "RE: to me it plays like a series of set pieces"
In response to Reply # 8


  

          

>loosely tied together
>
>all that happened in ONE DAY on ONE BLOCK?
>
>nah

It's not necessarily meant to be taken *literally*. Check out Amy Taubin's great essay on DTRT where she talks about how Spike purposefully incorporated elements of theater into the film to give it a less literal feel. (Link: http://www.bfi.org.uk/sightandsound/feature/42 ) I copied the last paragraph below:

"Had the space not been so theatricalised, the conceit that this one street is a microcosm of the social order (and specifically of race relations) would have frayed. We would have wondered why no one ventured outside its confines or how a dozen brownstones could house enough hungry pizza eaters to keep Mookie on the run for an entire day. The fusion of realism and theatricality not only generates aesthetic sparks, it suggests the complicated interplay between race as the bedrock of everyday life and race as a spectacle (the passing parade). As Mister Señor Love Daddy is wont to say: "And that's the triple truth, Ruth."



----

  

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Amritsar
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17. "^^^^^^"
In response to Reply # 5


  

          

I mean Jesus Christ

  

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colonelk
Member since Dec 10th 2002
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Wed Apr-04-12 01:03 AM

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3. "Casino is the poster child for this category"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

So entertaining, but such a gigantic narrative mess.

I think there are at least four narrators.

There is also a scene with Pesci popping a dude's eye out to reveal the identity of "Charlie M" a character who has fuck all to do with the story.

--------

hell-below.com

  

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astralblak
Member since Apr 05th 2007
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27. "agreed"
In response to Reply # 3


  

          

.

  

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Frank Longo
Member since Nov 18th 2003
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4. "John Carter."
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

11/13: Hot Frosty (on Netflix)
11/23: Three Wiser Men & A Boy (on Hallmark)
11/27: Christmas Under the Lights (on Hallmark Mysteries)
12/14: The Santa Class (on Hallmark)

  

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celery77
Member since Aug 04th 2005
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11. "fuck what y'all heard, I still watch the Final Fantasy movie"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

only ~90m so it's low commitment and the sci-fi CGI is some of the best we've ever seen.

and seriously, if Avatar can have its defenders with a loosely reinterpreted Fern Gully plot, it seems silly to hold a trite environmentalist story against another movie that's otherwise hugely visually compelling.

and yeah, it has absolutely nothing to do with the Final Fantasy video game franchise. is that a bad thing? I still think if they made the exact same movie, only titled it separately from the video game, its reception would be vastly different.

___________

HOPE!
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SankofaII
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12. "hot messes:"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

Bamboozled
Inland Empire (I *live* for David Lynch, but this was a FUCKING HOT MESS OF SERIOUS PROPORTIONS, *BUT* Laura Dern really *DID* give one of the best performances she's EVER given in the past 15 or so years)

John Carter
Crash (it's just a hot mess)
Clash of the Titans/Wrath of the Titans

hell, just put down *ANY* movie Sam Worthington's done in the past 3 or so years...the movie is *AUTOMATICALLY* a hot mess because you have his non presence having, has NO BUSINESS being an A list actor and carrying movies, only has a couple of facial expressions Aussie ass for real.

Get Out the Room
https://itunes.apple.com/us/podcast/get-out-the-room/id525657893

Some of y'all need this in your life: http://www.psychology.com

  

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Ryan M
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13. "Watchmen."
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

That shit was doomed from the start, but still entertaining.

It was a mess, mostly, but parts were done amazingly.

------------------------------

17x NBA Champions

  

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celery77
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15. "good call, I think it woulda been good w/ a different Ozymandias"
In response to Reply # 13


  

          

the biggest flaw is that the final scene totally lacked gravitas and that was because the drama in the scene turned around the weakest character in the story.

everything else I thought was really good, actually. the character of the Joker actually gets a real response from me every time I rewatch it and I think the inner turmoil of Doc Manhattan comes across pretty well, like I really feel like I sit + stew on the nature of life on earth just like he does whenever they have him staring dreaminly into the distance.

but yeah, suffers from being so long (I usually turn it off after the prison scene with Rorschach) and there are some unquestionable misses tucked in there along the way.

___________

HOPE!
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https://vine.co/v/i7JtqEFwxDu

  

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blueeclipse
Member since Apr 12th 2009
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43. "RE: good call, I think it woulda been good w/ a different Ozymandias"
In response to Reply # 15


  

          

Malin Ackerman cast as Silk Spectre was atrocious casting. She by far was the worst offender in this film and she was such a pivitol character becuase she was Jon's last true link to humanity. She had to be convincing in that role for his reconnection with humanity to take place. The ball was dropped big time on this shit. It ruined the movie without a doubt. She also had no chemistry with Patrick Wilson either.

  

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astralblak
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28. "yes"
In response to Reply # 13


  

          

.

  

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will_5198
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14. "Spiderman 3."
In response to Reply # 0


          

too many villains to keep focus, but Sandman was awesome and the others could have been. I thought Tobey Maguire going "dark" was hilarious camp -- much more entertaining than him and Dunst trying to be "serious" in the drawn out Spiderman 2.

Tron: Legacy. from a visual and aural standpoint, this is a damn fine movie. the cinematography is at times amazing, and it's scored by fucking Daft Punk. however, the script sounds like something written for a 1990s video game (perhaps fitting). Jeff Bridges treats it with utter contempt or embraces it fully, depending on how you want to look at it.

The Matrix Reloaded. there are some golden scenes here, and realizing that Revolutions was a big middle finger to everything, you can watch the second part without pretending to care about the ridiculous plot.

--------

  

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celery77
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16. "no BS -- I've rewatched Tron: Legacy a few times already"
In response to Reply # 14


  

          

>Tron: Legacy. from a visual and aural standpoint, this is a
>damn fine movie. the cinematography is at times amazing, and
>it's scored by fucking Daft Punk. however, the script sounds
>like something written for a 1990s video game (perhaps
>fitting). Jeff Bridges treats it with utter contempt or
>embraces it fully, depending on how you want to look at it.

I couldn't even tell you what the story is. I was watching it one week just in 30m snippets, stopping to do other things, then restarting a day or two later when I had time. didn't affect my enjoyment one bit. just turned the lights low + the stereo system up and that movie is cool as hell to watch.

___________

HOPE!
https://vine.co/v/i7JjIBL3Qix
https://vine.co/v/i7JtqEFwxDu

  

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Marauder21
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18. "Gangs of New York"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

It has so many flaws (Cameron Diaz, aLeo kinda phoned it in, the last shot that is just so on the nose, the fact that the movie has a running time of like three days,) but DDL, the time period, the way even the dumb stuff is framed so epic . . . I love it. Can't help it.

------

12 play and 12 planets are enlighten for all the Aliens to Party and free those on the Sex Planet-maxxx

XBL: trkc21
Twitter: @tyrcasey

  

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Ryan M
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19. "Ugh you just reminded me of the last shot."
In response to Reply # 18


  

          

I had forgotten...

That said I agree, except for Leo phoning it in. Next to Day Lewis anyone looks like that tho.

------------------------------

17x NBA Champions

  

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Mynoriti
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20. "such a waste of one of the greatest characters ever tho"
In response to Reply # 18


  

          

if Gangs was as good as DDL's Bill the Butcher, it'd be GOAT status

for that reason alone, i kind of hate it now

  

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astralblak
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29. "i fucn hate that movie"
In response to Reply # 18


  

          

just a mess.

  

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Mynoriti
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21. "Baby Boy"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

yeah, Singleton threw in some comedic moments but i'm sure he didn't mean it to be THAT funny

  

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Marauder21
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22. "Fuck yo fort"
In response to Reply # 21


  

          

------

12 play and 12 planets are enlighten for all the Aliens to Party and free those on the Sex Planet-maxxx

XBL: trkc21
Twitter: @tyrcasey

  

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ZooTown74
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Wed Apr-04-12 11:05 PM

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23. "He said he meant for the movie to be one long NWA skit"
In response to Reply # 21


  

          

So, take that for what it's worth

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forgivenphoenix
Member since Dec 08th 2007
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24. "Natural Born Killers"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

JFK
True Romance (maybe not the ambitious part, but that film is messy, in a good way)

__________________________________________

http://www.twitter.com/chriscjamison/

People who don't take risks generally make about two big mistakes a year. People who do take risks generally make about two big mistakes a year.

Peter Drucker

  

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ZooTown74
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25. "HOW Y'ALL JUST GON FORGET THIS JOUNT"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IldN-VZAJ-0

Yes, I'm old

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© ZooTown74 All Rights Reserved

  

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astralblak
Member since Apr 05th 2007
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30. "LOFL"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

three movies i LOVE have been named:
Bamboozled
Natural Born Killer
Casino

as in i think these movies are better than 85% of the movies you can name. i hear the criticisms these movies get, and usually laugh at it, but i understand

  

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colonelk
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37. "maybe this just means you like entertaining messes?"
In response to Reply # 30


  

          

Seriously, I love Casino too. But it's like an album with great songs and other songs that just go too far (or too long). You can love it, but you realize it isn't perfectly crafted.

--------

hell-below.com

  

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The Analyst
Member since Sep 22nd 2007
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Fri Apr-06-12 01:02 PM

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41. "There's a difference between being 'flawed' & being a 'hot mess.'"
In response to Reply # 37


  

          

Casino might be flawed, but I don't think it's a hot mess. Gangs of New York, on the other hand...

----

  

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colonelk
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46. "Understood"
In response to Reply # 41


  

          

It's a fine line.

Gangs is to Casino as Casino is to Goodfellas.

--------

hell-below.com

  

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stylez dainty
Member since Nov 22nd 2004
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32. "Mars Attacks, Brain Candy, American Dreamz"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

----
I check for: Serengeti, Zeroh, Open Mike Eagle, Jeremiah Jae, Moka Only.

  

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Marauder21
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34. "Brain Candy is amazing"
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------

12 play and 12 planets are enlighten for all the Aliens to Party and free those on the Sex Planet-maxxx

XBL: trkc21
Twitter: @tyrcasey

  

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Castro
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38. "Yes it is."
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------------------
One Hundred.

  

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celery77
Member since Aug 04th 2005
25307 posts
Fri Apr-06-12 12:39 PM

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39. "yeah, "hot mess"? hell no, that movie was ahead of its time"
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___________

HOPE!
https://vine.co/v/i7JjIBL3Qix
https://vine.co/v/i7JtqEFwxDu

  

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Selah
Member since Jun 05th 2002
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Fri Apr-06-12 11:17 AM

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35. "Kung Pow: Enter the Fist"
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the fact that they got the budget for that ($10M) is mind boggling

i love it for the sheer lunacy of it though

  

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c71
Member since Jan 15th 2008
14288 posts
Fri Apr-06-12 11:17 AM

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36. "Darktown Strutters or Get down and Boogie"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

The people at Stax who produced this film wanted Richard Pryor to be in. When Richard saw some the footage, he begged them to do him a favor and let him not be in it (he may have already agreed to be in it).

I only mention it because those who have seen the movie probably think it is great, but back then most people, like Richard, only saw it as a hot mess.

  

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Big Chief Rumbletummy
Member since Jan 31st 2006
2005 posts
Fri Apr-06-12 12:55 PM

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40. "Ridley Scott's Gladiator"
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That is a pure “turn your brain off” film if there ever was one. I can’t decide if it winning the best picture Oscar is indicative of the sheer worthlessness the of the Oscars, or the vapidity of the movie going public. It’s ambitious, its well made, the acting is okay, but the movie, beyond the most shallow of viewing, is a lavabed of messiness.

I concur 100% on Spider-Man 3. In what may be the first ever cuisinart related film metaphor, I feel like that movie was an example of the filmmakers just trying to smoothie out a movie by throwing a shit ton of ingredients into a blender and hitting “mix”. X-Men 3 is in the same boat, way too many characters and set pieces with no real story, however I think the bigger problem with that is a director who’s visual style clearly isn’t suited for super-hero films.

  

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Selah
Member since Jun 05th 2002
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Fri Apr-06-12 03:42 PM

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42. "Point of Order: 3-6 Mafia having one proves the Oscars suck"
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ZooTown74
Member since May 29th 2002
43582 posts
Fri Apr-06-12 06:00 PM

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44. "Sure. Too bad there wasn't a better song that year."
In response to Reply # 42


  

          

_________________________________________________________________________
© ZooTown74 All Rights Reserved

  

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Valium
Member since Oct 26th 2009
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47. "^^^^^"
In response to Reply # 40


  

          

say 'YEAH'!!!!!

  

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Valium
Member since Oct 26th 2009
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48. "Chicago/The Bodyguard/Alexander"
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say 'YEAH'!!!!!

  

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Valium
Member since Oct 26th 2009
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49. "and How Stella Got Her Groove Back"
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say 'YEAH'!!!!!

  

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ZooTown74
Member since May 29th 2002
43582 posts
Fri Apr-06-12 10:49 PM

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50. "The Bodyguard really wasn't that ambitious"
In response to Reply # 48


  

          

It's a pulpy thriller movie, not really on the epic or grand scale of the other two you mentioned

_________________________________________________________________________
© ZooTown74 All Rights Reserved

  

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Valium
Member since Oct 26th 2009
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Sat Apr-07-12 12:32 AM

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51. "That's not the way it was advertised, though."
In response to Reply # 50


  

          

say 'YEAH'!!!!!

  

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ZooTown74
Member since May 29th 2002
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Sat Apr-07-12 10:09 AM

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54. "(this should be interesting) So, it was advertised as a blockbuster?"
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Sat Apr-07-12 10:10 AM by ZooTown74

  

          

It was advertised as an ambitious blockbuster?

http://youtu.be/00Kvyw7AEKU

No. No, it wasn't. Correction, though: it's a pulpy *romantic* thriller. Still not ambitious or epic.

This here?

http://youtu.be/ecmSh8oKzr0

Epic. Ambitious. Blockbuster.

Three things The Bodyguard wasn't, or wasn't trying to be, despite the presence to two of the world's biggest stars at the time.

________________________________________________________________________
© ZooTown74 All Rights Reserved

  

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Frank Longo
Member since Nov 18th 2003
86943 posts
Sat Apr-07-12 09:45 AM

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53. "*pumps brakes* Chicago is FANTASTIC."
In response to Reply # 48


  

          

You could argue it's the most creatively done, tightly made musical-to-film adaptation ever.

11/13: Hot Frosty (on Netflix)
11/23: Three Wiser Men & A Boy (on Hallmark)
11/27: Christmas Under the Lights (on Hallmark Mysteries)
12/14: The Santa Class (on Hallmark)

  

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colonelk
Member since Dec 10th 2002
5058 posts
Sat Apr-07-12 12:46 PM

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55. "you could argue, but you'd be dead wrong"
In response to Reply # 53


  

          

Cabaret is the superior of Chicago on every level.

I'd personally argue Fiddler on the Roof and Little Shop of Horrors are better as well.

--------

hell-below.com

  

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jigga
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56. "I'm probably the biggest Colin Farrell apologist here, but Alexander?"
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There were maybe 2 or 3 entertaining scenes in the whole movie. The rest was a complete disaster on every level imaginable.

  

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Valium
Member since Oct 26th 2009
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52. "Big Willie's Wild Wild West"
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say 'YEAH'!!!!!

  

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jigga
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Sat Apr-07-12 03:26 PM

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57. "Ang Lee's Hulk is less of a hot-mess than Louis Leterrier's"
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