I really couldn't get into it until Angel finally turned back into Angelus and started fuckin' everybody up just for the hell of it.
After that, I was hooked.
The show was great because it had great and believable villains. I would say the greatest villians of the show were Spike/Drusilla and Mayor/Mr. Trick
What made them great was that you actually cared about their individual motivations and that they had plans that took more than one episode to carry out.
I need to go ahead and cop the DVD for that show.
Angel, too.
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"Courage doesn't always roar. Sometimes courage is that little voice at the end of the day that says, 'I'll try again tomorrow.'" ~ ~ Anne Radmacher
1. "I re-watch the full series annually" In response to Reply # 0
I just finished season four for the whateverth time. I've always been kind of "meh" on that season, but I enjoyed it more this time around. On the plus side, it introduces Anya as a real, everydayish character and contains one of the more successful setting shake-ups for a TV show by putting the gang in college. On the other, I can't think of a single episode ("Hush" included) that is still a contender for my personal top five. And I thought Riley didn't really work as a love interest.
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"Walleye, a lot of things are going to go wrong in your life that technically aren't your fault. Always remember that this doesn't make you any less of an idiot"
13. "Riley was always an awkward love interest.." In response to Reply # 1 Thu Jul-08-10 01:23 AM by araQual
..but i think i blame the lack of acting range by Marc Blucas than the character itself. apparently the role was a toss-up b/w Marc and Christian Kane (Lindsey from "Angel"). kinda glad they went with the everyman quality of Blucas cos Kane was dynamite as Lindsey. probly one of my fav supporting characters from the Whedonverse.
>What made them great was that you actually cared about their >individual motivations and that they had plans that took more >than one episode to carry out.
They fleshed out ALL the characters, from Buffy to Dru to freaking Spike. The ass-kicking action was great, and the writing was clever and snappy, but it was really a character-driven show. I should highlight the clever writing too, though. The characters were smart & funny. It was all-around enjoyable. I wouldn't go this far though:
>Angel, too.
That show was a mess.
Go Smack yourself and then apologize to your hand for looking stupid - Case_One
3. "Have you watched the entire series?" In response to Reply # 2
I wouldn't go this far though: > >>Angel, too. > >That show was a mess.
I agree that season 1 was slow and too episodic and season wasn't much better when they brought in Wesley.
But when they brought back Darla. . .THAT'S when the show started to take off and the episodes started to mean something.
Every major plot had some significant purpose that didn't just fade away the next episode.
Gunn continuously felt guilt for the death of his sister.
Wesley and Angel never were tight after what he did with baby Connor
Cordelia GREW as a character all the way up to. . . .
Fred. . .well, the coulda killed her after the first episode.
Lorne (R.I.P.) went from just being a random guest star to being a sympathetic character who always had to carry the load of being the "heart" of the team despite knowing how everybody's life was going to end.
You gotta watch all 5 seasons to really see how it grew before it was pre-maturely cut off.
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"Courage doesn't always roar. Sometimes courage is that little voice at the end of the day that says, 'I'll try again tomorrow.'" ~ ~ Anne Radmacher
4. "i get all weepy at the mention of it" In response to Reply # 0
and i didn't even finish the series.
>What made them great was that you actually cared about their >individual motivations and that they had plans that took more >than one episode to carry out.
this was key. i honestly missed those people when the show ended.
also interesting is the fact that it was two distinct shows: seasons 1-3 and seasons 4-7. personally, i preferred the former, but i respect its ability to grow and change while remaining successful.
***************************** Pay no attention when I laugh. I'm a notorious pervert in that respect
5. "RE: i get all weepy at the mention of it" In response to Reply # 4
>also interesting is the fact that it was two distinct shows: >seasons 1-3 and seasons 4-7. personally, i preferred the >former, but i respect its ability to grow and change while >remaining successful.
I think season 1-3 was trying too hard to fit into the "teenage agnst" category along with the rest of the shows on WB.
"Oh woe is me, I'm a teenager who is awkward and I am in love with an older guy but the universe is keeping us from experiencing true love!"
Once Angel left to start his own show (which was great), the show finally settled into being a CLEVER and well-written Sci-Fi show.
Season 6 kinda struck me as the "so-what" season. Ok, Buffy came back to life (again), Riley had moved on, she had dropped outta college and now had to find a job while the rest of her friends moved on with their lives.
But what was the over-arching purpose?
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"Courage doesn't always roar. Sometimes courage is that little voice at the end of the day that says, 'I'll try again tomorrow.'" ~ ~ Anne Radmacher
12. "i think season 6 is SPOSED to not hav an over-arching purpose" In response to Reply # 5
it was a huge lowpoint in Buff's life, there was no real big bad to fight, she drifted into a torrid love affair with Spike, Willow's the surprise big bad, and XANDER'S the one who saves the world. i rekn that season in particular gets unfairly shat on, when in reality they took things to places i never thought they'd go. it was a darkness usually reserved for "Angel", but they really squeezed a lot of drama and tension out of that supposedly 'nothing' season. re-watch it again sumtime, might change ur tune.
6. "it was fun while it lasted" In response to Reply # 0
when i see the reruns there are so many actors/actresses from those two shows that i didn't realize were in them
for example angels son being pete campbell from mad men ~~~~ When you are born, you cry, and the world rejoices. Live so that when you die, you rejoice, and the world cries. ~~~~ You cannot hate people for their own good.
7. "Both shows (Buffy and Angel) really got good in their 2nd seasons" In response to Reply # 0 Wed Jul-07-10 07:40 PM by KneelB4Me
I watched a few eps of each during the 1st seasons and really wasn't taken in. They were kinda like the 1st movie of a trilogy, setting up the world they inhabit, then going all out in subsequent volumes.
Seasons 4 - 7 of Buffy, as someone else said, were an almost different show from 1 - 3, minus having most of the same characters. I did enjoy "Hush" from season 4, but I think the Initiative itself was a better villain than Adam overall. The writers probably couldn't think of a way for Buffy to defeat a government installation without killing Dr. Walsh, which would have been wildly out of character. The theme of the characters spreading apart then having to come back together was hammered too hard by the "Yoko Factor" episode and the finale.
Gladly they lost the "supernatural analogy to real life situations" formula after that, or if they didn't, it went over my head in the final seasons.
Edit: And Willow turning gay....WTF?
"I halfway hope people put "btw, rappers lie and shit" on CD covers, like a parental advisory sticker." - OKP Villain
15. "Willow realising she's gay...never understood the uproar bout that" In response to Reply # 7
it happened, big deal. im sure we know friends and close fam who've also gona through changes and ended up comin out. that's reality. the whole backlash to it when it happened stank more of homophobia than anything else. it wasn't exactly a random occurrence either, cos like majority things in "Buffy" the shit was already referenced an entire season earlier (the ep with Wil's evil vamp doppelganger.
i love how the fan reaction to it got referenced in a season 2 ep of "Angel" (ep12, "Blood Money"), n which Ang crashes a Wolfram & Hart fundraiser which features stars of some hit show as the guests. anyways at one point the cast is shmoozing with the attendees and one lady asks one of the actresses from the show: "so that thing with ur character turning gay...was that for ratings cos...i don't get it?"
33. "In retrospect, I see it coming, but at the time? No way" In response to Reply # 15
Even the alt-universe Willow feeling up "our" Willow was something I just attributed to that version of the character, not really gay, just liked to freak people out.
Admittedly, I was still kinda holding out for Willow and Xander to get together in the end, even after Tara died.
I don't think it was done for ratings, though. Joss just likes to tell good stories, and that's a story that fits the whole "supernatural analogies for real-life issues" shtick.
"I halfway hope people put "btw, rappers lie and shit" on CD covers, like a parental advisory sticker." - OKP Villain
8. "In that one post about that lame vampire show on HBO" In response to Reply # 0
I said something similar about how much I really miss that show, and it wasn't the show itself I missed, but the characters. Very few shows actually gave me characters I cared that much about and was so interested in seeing how things played with each of them. I just finished rewatching the entire series last month and now I'm rewatching Angel, still on season 1. Hopefully we can get some type of reunion special before the vamps (Angel, Spike) get too old.
16. "kinda disappointed at y'all Buffy fans disregarding "Angel" so much" In response to Reply # 0
"Angel" at its peak makes Buffy and her pals looks like whiny biatches. and again, i say that with a deep love for both shows, but one was definitely aimed at a more grown age bracket than the other. "Buffy" seemed like an infant compared to its spin-off, speshly when i catch the repeats on cable from my now 26yr old perspective (tho i did always prefer "Angel" over "Buffy" ever since it first got spun off).
21. "I don't know if 'darker'=more mature" In response to Reply # 16 Thu Jul-08-10 07:56 AM by BigReg
I think the issue with Angel was that it took a season or so to hit it's stride...especially since during that same time Buffy was firing on all cylinders. I remember I stopped watching it a few episodes in the first season because it seemed a bit redundant.
Later on after they killed the Irish demon off, and got Wolfram and Hart up and running (imho, the best group of villians across both series) it became great, superior even to a Buffy that at the time was kinda wheezing along
I think Angel overall had a better sense of 'universe' then Buffy cause Buffy had to balance both the coming of age/friendship issues with fighting the good fight, Angel could just focus on the later and the consequences of.
i don't think you are alone in that ~~~~ When you are born, you cry, and the world rejoices. Live so that when you die, you rejoice, and the world cries. ~~~~ You cannot hate people for their own good.
To me Angel really surpassed Buffy. Buffy started to decline in it's later seasons. Angel got better with each season. The last season was great and was sad to see it go cause there was a whole lot of story to tell.
25. ""The Body" is incredible" In response to Reply # 22
I've seen it a bunch of times now and I still need to prepare before watching it. My tendency is to attribute classic status to more of the later season episodes, so "The Zeppo" needs to be mentioned for balance.
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"Walleye, a lot of things are going to go wrong in your life that technically aren't your fault. Always remember that this doesn't make you any less of an idiot"
28. "just decided to look up critical reviews" In response to Reply # 25
a never realized so much was written on the show and this episode
i always just figured is was a goonies/lost boys/blade runner type of show in that not many people watched was something of cult status and definitely not something critics would bother with
~~~~ When you are born, you cry, and the world rejoices. Live so that when you die, you rejoice, and the world cries. ~~~~ You cannot hate people for their own good.
30. "oh i watched all of it" In response to Reply # 29
from the beginning while it was on i just didn't think anyone else would be interested
same for true blood
i'm not sure i like all of these 'experts' in my worlds though lol ~~~~ When you are born, you cry, and the world rejoices. Live so that when you die, you rejoice, and the world cries. ~~~~ You cannot hate people for their own good.
34. "I haven't been able to watch "The Body" since my mom died" In response to Reply # 22
I tried a few months ago and couldn't get past Buffy telling Giles "we're not supposed to move the body!" The segment in Willow and Tara's dorm room, from start to finish, made the episode for me.
"The Zeppo," "Fool for Love," and "Tabula Rasa" are some of my faves, too.
"I halfway hope people put "btw, rappers lie and shit" on CD covers, like a parental advisory sticker." - OKP Villain
38. "Started re-watching Buffy on Netflix" In response to Reply # 0
didn't want to create a new post but thought would up this for discussion.
Its definitely aged some, especially the first two seasons. Oz's first werewolf appearance in season 2 is funny. The computer virus demon and some of the stories are not that good now but still enjoy the characters so much and watching them develop.
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