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Subject: "Why don't actors get more love for doing their own stunts?" Previous topic | Next topic
Frank Longo
Member since Nov 18th 2003
86639 posts
Wed Jun-30-10 04:47 PM

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"Why don't actors get more love for doing their own stunts?"


  

          

And yeah, this is a PRO-CROOZE post.

Dude will jump off buildings, hang from cliffs, jump from moving car to moving car, not giving a FUCK.

If an actor is willing to do that... enormous props in my book. Nowadays it's always a cut to a wide shot to allow a double to do it, or a cut to a CGI version of that actor that never looks as good, or an obvious fucking green screen. I would imagine it frees you up in terms of camera placement, camera movement, etc., not to mention it just makes the illusion that much more credible.

Must be a bitch for the studio heads sweating that their star will get blown to bits or fall off a building... but still.

I wish that CROOZE films would have end credits with blown takes of the stunts like Jackie Chan's do, to remind people, yeah, this crazy Scientologist will leap onto a moving car to entertain you.

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Topic Outline
Subject Author Message Date ID
I feel like you've answered your own question
Jun 30th 2010
1
It doesn't really make the films any better.
Jun 30th 2010
2
This is not true
Jun 30th 2010
3
      How many of Cruise's films are better because of his stunts?
Jun 30th 2010
4
           Again, not true
Jul 01st 2010
16
                And, again, this is my point.
Jul 01st 2010
17
                     If his new movie is bad,
Jul 02nd 2010
19
                          but have you ever come out of a movie saying
Jul 03rd 2010
23
                               yeah, I have
Jul 03rd 2010
24
Movies are exponentially better with actual stunts....
Jun 30th 2010
5
Also known as "The Vinnie Chase Post"
Jul 01st 2010
6
lol i was looking for this reply
Jul 03rd 2010
22
Ask John Landis.
Jul 01st 2010
7
awwwww.
Jul 02nd 2010
20
Ouch.
Jul 03rd 2010
21
My day job is in entertainment insurance, so please do more of these stu...
Jul 01st 2010
8
green screen is getting a lot less obvious these days, though
Jul 01st 2010
9
RE: Why don't actors get more love for doing their own stunts?
Jul 01st 2010
10
Slept on reply
Jul 01st 2010
15
I think Jackie Chan shamed a lot of hollywood types back
Jul 01st 2010
11
Jackie Chan is just crazy
Jul 01st 2010
12
      He ain't crazy, He is fearless and he's paid the price for it.
Jul 01st 2010
14
      Check out this video of Jackie's top 10 stunts
Jul 02nd 2010
18
Daniel Craig's stuntin>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Tom's Bruise
Jul 01st 2010
13

Ted Gee Seal
Member since Apr 18th 2007
10091 posts
Wed Jun-30-10 05:21 PM

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1. "I feel like you've answered your own question"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

I mean yeah it's cool, Michelle Yeoh will always have a special place in the heart as being fearless to the point where she couldn't be insured (I believe at the time only Jackie Chan and Jet Li).

But at the same time, insurance, the market for stunt doubles, some of the things you mentioned, it all feels like a lot of economics standing in the way of such a talent being a long term, viable way for big actors to conduct themselves.

At the same time I wonder how much more I'd enjoy action sequences in movies like the Matrix if the actors involved actually had a decent aptitude for those sorts of scenes. But at the same time the likes of Jason Statham aren't versatile or plentiful enough to be in all those movies.

It must be hard to divide ones time between working on being a good actor and being a good athlete who can be convincing in stunts and fight scenes. I imagine one or all of those talents have to suffer in some way if you're going to try to keep them all.

Tom Cruise isn't exactly someone I go to see for his acting skills.

  

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SoulHonky
Member since Jan 21st 2003
25919 posts
Wed Jun-30-10 06:05 PM

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2. "It doesn't really make the films any better."
In response to Reply # 0


          

If you want props for doing your own stunts, either do superhuman shit like Jackie Chan and Tony Jaa or do them in films better than "Knight and Day" or the forgettable MI series.

----
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Wordman
Member since Apr 11th 2003
11224 posts
Wed Jun-30-10 06:17 PM

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3. "This is not true"
In response to Reply # 2


  

          

Films where actors do their own stunts make the movie better; or at the very least, films where actors do their own stunts "allow for the opportunity" for the movie to be better.
It allows for better continuity, DEFINITELY helps in the editing process, not to mention grounding the film in some sense of reality. It gives the director/D.P. more choices in terms of shots. It breeds "friendly competition" between actors ("I don't want to look like I can't do that jump when ______ just did it."). It means the actor isn't "limiting the production" - which believe me, that is something that will get into the heads of the cast and crew.
Imagine The Bourne movies with a stunt double.
The same is true not just with stunts, but any particular "special skill" needed. The movie Ray is a great example of this. That movie is much more interesting visually because Jamie Foxx knows how to play the piano. Now they can actually show him playing the piano, instead of cutting from him sitting at the piano to a piano player's hands.
Cruise gets props from me. He may be "a movie star desperate to be an actor", but he'll push himself a lot farther than many actors.


"Your current frequencies of understanding outweigh that which has been given for you to understand." Saul Williams

  

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SoulHonky
Member since Jan 21st 2003
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Wed Jun-30-10 07:17 PM

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4. "How many of Cruise's films are better because of his stunts?"
In response to Reply # 3


          

I can't even name a single Cruise stunt besides the rock climbing one that was at the start of MI2. A terrible movie and a kind of pointless stunt.

Yeah, if you have someone like William Shatner or Katherine Heigl who can't do their own shit or require a stunt double to run for them than it can make life harder. But most time you hear about an actor doing their own stunt, it's pretty pointless. People made a big deal about Angelina Jolie doing her own shit in Mr. and Mrs. Smith and the most notable stunt was an almost throwaway shot of her dropping down 30 stories by a wire.


Most leading men do their own fight choreography, many do their own stunts, and Cruise doesn't really do the kind of jaw-dropping stunts like people who are known for doing their own stunts (Chan, Jaa, etc.)

Basically, it's really not that big of a deal for most actors, which is why there's rarely more than a passing reference to when they do do their own stunts.

----
NBA MOCK DRAFT #1 - https://thecourierclass.com/whole-shebang/2017/5/18/2017-nba-mock-draft-1-just-lotto-and-lotta-trades

  

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Wordman
Member since Apr 11th 2003
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Thu Jul-01-10 05:53 PM

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16. "Again, not true"
In response to Reply # 4


  

          

>I can't even name a single Cruise stunt besides the rock
>climbing one that was at the start of MI2. A terrible movie
>and a kind of pointless stunt.

You mean, other than that huge glass wall exploding behind in the first Mission Impossible movie? The other that you couldn't four fee without seeing a commercial for?

>Yeah, if you have someone like William Shatner or Katherine
>Heigl who can't do their own shit or require a stunt double to
>run for them than it can make life harder. But most time you
>hear about an actor doing their own stunt, it's pretty
>pointless. People made a big deal about Angelina Jolie doing
>her own shit in Mr. and Mrs. Smith and the most notable stunt
>was an almost throwaway shot of her dropping down 30 stories
>by a wire.

Try to find another big name female actor who'll do that.
Again, the actor doing their own stunts gives the director, d.p., and editor more choices, which can only be a good thing. If the stunt or shot or movie isn't notable to you, than it's more the director's fault.

>Most leading men do their own fight choreography,

Leading men HAVE to do their own fight choreography either for the establishing shot, or to do a "walk-thru" for the d.p./double to see how the director wants it.

>many do
>their own stunts,

Most don't do the kind of stunts to brag about doing. The equivalent of calling the person who holds open the subway train doors a daredevil.

>and Cruise doesn't really do the kind of
>jaw-dropping stunts like people who are known for doing their
>own stunts (Chan, Jaa, etc.)

Again, Cruise is. For someone who is not a trained martial artist, Cruise's stunt work is remarkable. For someone who basically didn't learn how to do any of that shit until his 20s, it's incredible.
You may find him obnoxious - which he may be, and his movies bland - which some are, but Tom Cruise is in very select company when it comes to the amount of stunt work he does. There's only a half dozen or so actors who have done that level of stuntwork, and none of them for as long as Cruise has.

>Basically, it's really not that big of a deal for most actors,

It actually is. Again, it shows the level of commitment you're willing to make for a picture. If you're not ready to fight a real tiger, you won't get to be in Gladiator. If you're not willing to have the camera on top of you while you do intense hand-to-hand combat while falling out of a very real four story building, you won't get to be in 4 Bourne movies. Then when you combine that with the fact that most directors will intentionally work with the same actors over and over again, it also means that lack of commitment cost you more work. Couple that with how many directors base what actors they hire base on the work they do in other movies, that's even more work.
It's not really that big of a deal for most UNEMPLOYED actors.

>which is why there's rarely more than a passing reference to
>when they do do their own stunts.

There's only a passing reference when "they" (meaning the actors who don't care much about stunts) do their own stunts because they are the ones okay with doing the lightest load possible.
Best believe actors and filmmakers pay particular attention to who does and doesn't do their own stunts.
It may be more of a trade thing than something the public cares about, but that does not make it any less important.


"Your current frequencies of understanding outweigh that which has been given for you to understand." Saul Williams

  

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SoulHonky
Member since Jan 21st 2003
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Thu Jul-01-10 06:13 PM

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17. "And, again, this is my point."
In response to Reply # 16


          

"You may find him obnoxious - which he may be, and his movies bland - which some are, but Tom Cruise is in very select company when it comes to the amount of stunt work he does."

If the movies are bland, then who cares if he does his own stunts in them? I don't think there's any need to ask, "Why doesn't Tom Cruise get more props for doing his own stunts?" when Knight & Day is tanking. If Cruise's recent films blew up and made an impact on the culture, then he'd get props, like Keanu did for learning Kung-Fu for The Matrix. (And no, I don't remember the shot you're talking about from MI:1.)

NOBODY is saying, "Oh man, you should go see the stunts that Tom Cruise does in Knight and Day." I don't think anyone has ever said that about Cruise and that's why most people don't give him props. Yes, it might make filmmaking easier (and I think most industry people give him credit for doing his own shit) but the general public doesn't give a rat's ass about that.

----
NBA MOCK DRAFT #1 - https://thecourierclass.com/whole-shebang/2017/5/18/2017-nba-mock-draft-1-just-lotto-and-lotta-trades

  

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Wordman
Member since Apr 11th 2003
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Fri Jul-02-10 04:34 PM

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19. "If his new movie is bad,"
In response to Reply # 17


  

          

and I'll have to take your word, because I haven't seen it, I'm sure it's bad for a myriad of reasons beyond Tom. And you can rest assured the movie would have been worse if someone else did the stunts.


"Your current frequencies of understanding outweigh that which has been given for you to understand." Saul Williams

  

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IceburgSmurf
Member since May 17th 2008
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Sat Jul-03-10 07:08 AM

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23. "but have you ever come out of a movie saying"
In response to Reply # 19


  

          

the plot was kinda meh! the acting was alright but those action scenes where "actor x" did the stunts made this so much better?

Personally i think it is nice but doesnt take a film from being good to great or 3stars to 4stars unless as previously mentioned its jackie chan/tony jaa levels of action, which in reality is primarily what you go to see a jackie chan/tony jaa film for.

  

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Wordman
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Sat Jul-03-10 04:42 PM

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24. "yeah, I have"
In response to Reply # 23


  

          

It could be because I work in the movie field, but yeah, I've enjoyed movies better because I got to see the actor do a stunt instead of a computer or stunt double.
Blade is a better movie because you can see Wesley Snipes do the stunts and not a light-skinned, 2-inches-shorter double in a full length leather coat.
Does it make a difference? Yeah. Does it make a huge difference? Probably not.
I'm more invested because I know Bob the Actor and not Bob the Double did the huge 20 foot jump, or because that's actually Bob playing the saxophone and not Donald Harrison.
I'd think cats would be more appreciative of the main draw actually doing the work instead of outsourcing it. After all, it's what you're paying $10+ a ticket for.



"Your current frequencies of understanding outweigh that which has been given for you to understand." Saul Williams

  

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rorschach
Member since Nov 10th 2004
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Wed Jun-30-10 11:53 PM

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5. "Movies are exponentially better with actual stunts...."
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

Cruise does get points for doing stunts but, like someone already said, they should make the movie better too.

I really can't wait for filmmakers to really start reacting against the cutaway/CGI method for handling stunts. I can't imagine some films without real stunt people. What would Terminator 2 or Die Hard have been without real stunting?


Bad. That's what they would've been.

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Pete Burns
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Thu Jul-01-10 01:34 AM

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6. "Also known as "The Vinnie Chase Post""
In response to Reply # 0


          


What the blood claaat ???

  

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IceburgSmurf
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Sat Jul-03-10 06:56 AM

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22. "lol i was looking for this reply"
In response to Reply # 6


  

          

  

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Invisiblist
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Thu Jul-01-10 01:38 AM

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7. "Ask John Landis."
In response to Reply # 0


          

  

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etfp
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20. "awwwww."
In response to Reply # 7


  

          

________
"2ndly u think FAMILY and niggas i done grew up wit for 20+ years
gon let some random nigga
show up and whup my ass on my block
and hop in his corolla and pull off?" spm

  

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Pete Burns
Member since Oct 18th 2005
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Sat Jul-03-10 01:29 AM

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21. "Ouch."
In response to Reply # 7


          


What the blood claaat ???

  

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MothershipConnection
Member since Nov 22nd 2003
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Thu Jul-01-10 02:05 AM

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8. "My day job is in entertainment insurance, so please do more of these stu..."
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

Just don't get hurt or kill someone in the process, please.

  

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tohunga
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Thu Jul-01-10 03:52 AM

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9. "green screen is getting a lot less obvious these days, though"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

this video scares me:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=clnozSXyF4k

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gumz
Member since Jan 09th 2005
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Thu Jul-01-10 08:26 AM

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10. "RE: Why don't actors get more love for doing their own stunts?"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

most people dont know...but it sometimes gets talked about if you follow the making of films. cruise gets some love for it...even his workout regiment gets talked about quite a bit. how he builds gyms on each set and works out pretty much all day when he's not on screen. it really only matters to people who follow behind the scenes stuff though.

  

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JungleSouljah
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Thu Jul-01-10 11:33 AM

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15. "Slept on reply"
In response to Reply # 10


  

          

The green screening there is pretty damn amazing.

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Castro
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Thu Jul-01-10 08:53 AM

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11. "I think Jackie Chan shamed a lot of hollywood types back "
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

into doing their own stuff.

------------------
One Hundred.

  

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sevencents
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Thu Jul-01-10 10:15 AM

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12. "Jackie Chan is just crazy"
In response to Reply # 11


          


especially some of the stunts that he was doing in the 80s & early 90's
some of the films would show outtakes of stunts gone wrong during the credits of some of his films.

he def has a guardian angel looking after him

7c

  

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Castro
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Thu Jul-01-10 10:56 AM

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14. "He ain't crazy, He is fearless and he's paid the price for it."
In response to Reply # 12


  

          

He can't move like he used to, and he's endured countless falls.

------------------
One Hundred.

  

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LA2Philly
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Fri Jul-02-10 12:37 PM

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18. "Check out this video of Jackie's top 10 stunts"
In response to Reply # 12


  

          

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cI1AwZN4ZYg

Dude is literally risking life and limb in his stunts.

---------------------------------
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jigga
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Thu Jul-01-10 10:54 AM

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13. "Daniel Craig's stuntin>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Tom's Bruise"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

  

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