"The Matrix should've lasted 5 minutes--half-hour tops..." Thu Apr-15-10 02:31 PM by baxterzeppo
Ok. So...let me see if I have all of this down before I state my point:
1) If it can be known, it can be uploaded into your brain.
We see this about a half-dozen times in the first flick alone. Neo wants to know kung-fu? He knows kung-fu. Neo wants to fly a chopper? Done.
2) Whatever you know in the Matrix, you know outside of it.
If this wasn't true, Neo would have been wondering who the fuck the people picking him up in the ship were after he was freed because he wouldn't have known who Trinity and Morpheus were. His brain is his brain no matter which world he is in. EDIT: In fact, the only thing in real life keeping him from whooping some ass is the fact that he can't defy gravity there and probably doesn't work out enough to do those moves.
So...what's to stop someone in Zion from putting every bit of science ever into their brains and using that knowledge to build a computer virus that frees the people and shuts down the robots? You're telling me a Zion full of encyclopedic super-geniuses couldn't have solved that shit without Neo?
Ted Gee Seal Member since Apr 18th 2007 10091 posts
Thu Apr-15-10 06:27 PM
4. "because learning that stuff still takes time" In response to Reply # 0 Thu Apr-15-10 06:35 PM by Ted Gee Seal
Sure flying a helicopter and picking up martial arts is reasonably quick, but remember how long he had to sit in the chair just learning basic stuff. And his ability to sit in the chair was far beyond anything morpheus and dozer/tank (always got them mixed up) had seen. Dude was sitting there for six hours or something just learning basic programming and martial arts. There was even a cheap bit of foreshadowing in their amazement: "He's a machine."
PLUS:
Not everyone in Zion has those connectors on their bodies so no, you can't just upload that stuff to everyone. People who can jump in and out of the Matrix are rare because freeing people from the Matrix is rare. Plus the strain on the power supply plus time involved in rotating uploads around so that you don't weaken your defenses is formidable.
Not to mention, the machines have access to the same information and can disseminate it much faster.
7. "^^^co-sign everything you said" In response to Reply # 4 Thu Apr-15-10 07:49 PM by Nukkapedia
As if the machines weren't/couldn't've been one step ahead of the humans the whole time, which was proven to be the case in the sequels.
Moreover, there was no available book info that could have taught thm how to dismantle or weaken the mainframes running the entire operation - that, like reading the Matrix output code, was something they had to learn for themselves.
And even if they knew any and everything, when has book sense ever equaled common sense?
15. "RE: because learning that stuff still takes time" In response to Reply # 4
>Sure flying a helicopter and picking up martial arts is >reasonably quick, but remember how long he had to sit in the >chair just learning basic stuff. And his ability to sit in the >chair was far beyond anything morpheus and dozer/tank (always >got them mixed up) had seen. Dude was sitting there for six >hours or something just learning basic programming and martial >arts. There was even a cheap bit of foreshadowing in their >amazement: "He's a machine."
The way you phrased this gave me a real life LOL: "His ability to sit in the chair was far beyond anything had ever seen."
True. This stuff took time. Not everyone is built for being whatever kind of secret agent/matrix guru that Neo and Morpheus were...but you can't tell me that those abilities are better spent kicking ass and not forming an elite think-tank dedicated to freeing the people trapped in the Matrix.
And, even if you didn't know that the rebellion was part of the Architect's plan, you'd still have to see what a dumb idea going back in is. Someone is going to be clued into your fermenting rebellion. Why go back in and let them know you're free and able to hack in until you have a plan?
>PLUS: > >Not everyone in Zion has those connectors on their bodies so >no, you can't just upload that stuff to everyone. People who >can jump in and out of the Matrix are rare because freeing >people from the Matrix is rare. Plus the strain on the power >supply plus time involved in rotating uploads around so that >you don't weaken your defenses is formidable.
So you're going to waste the people who CAN get in and out by putting them in harm's way?
>Not to mention, the machines have access to the same >information and can disseminate it much faster. > >So really, not a quick fix at all.
Not a quick fix, you're right. It's certainly quicker than freeing each person one by one and trying to take down a group of world-dominating robots by fighting the virus protection software in their battery though, isn't it?
18. "Bout to say this. I thought everyone in Zion was born in TRW" In response to Reply # 4
>Not everyone in Zion has those connectors on their bodies so >no, you can't just upload that stuff to everyone. People who >can jump in and out of the Matrix are rare because freeing >people from the Matrix is rare. Plus the strain on the power >supply plus time involved in rotating uploads around so that >you don't weaken your defenses is formidable. > >Not to mention, the machines have access to the same >information and can disseminate it much faster. > >So really, not a quick fix at all.
19. "there STILL seemed to be a good deal who could go back & forth" In response to Reply # 4
between the matrix and the real world...but it's been a while since i've watched so maybe it was just Neo's crew....BUT...if there were more people who could log in and out, it seems like they could spend the time they used learning Jeet Kune Do and learn SOMETHING that would help them more on the outside instead of waiting around for Neo to show up....
"yes, sometimes my rhymes are sexist, but you lovely bitches and hos should know i'm tryin to correct it"- hiphopopotamus
________ "2ndly u think FAMILY and niggas i done grew up wit for 20+ years gon let some random nigga show up and whup my ass on my block and hop in his corolla and pull off?" spm
9. "hahahaha...I love it!" In response to Reply # 0
I can't argue against your point cause that shit is so on point!...hahahahahaha __________________________________________________________ http://www.zazzle.com/auteurronin <------BUY ONE OF MY T-SHIRTS PLEASE, Don't treat them like that movie Necessary Roughness and ignore them...lol
16. "Saving her life saved all of Zion." In response to Reply # 13
>if he chose to stop the Matrix instead of saving Trinity that >would have ended the whole thing, she died anyway so saving >her was in vain..... >
The terms were that Neo resets the Matrix, and some are freed to rebuild a New Zion so the current Zion would have been eliminated. Saving her life saved theirs and created a peace that otherwise would have not existed.
I don't think many of you watched the movies with your thinking caps on.
20. "when they logged into the matrix, technically weren't they the viruses?" In response to Reply # 0 Fri Apr-16-10 03:18 PM by buckshot defunct
Like yeah, on screen it looks like a bunch of kung fu, but isn't it really all just a bunch 1's and 0s battling it out? The flying, the jumping, the fighting, etc was all just manipulations of the Matrix's programming. In a sense, even the Kung Fu was a code language of sorts. It was just a cool visual way to represent the hacking, so we didn't have to watch a bunch of programmers type code at each other for 2 hours.
Plus I'm not really sure where the humans would even get their hands on "every bit of science ever", since clearly the free humans lived in dance party squalor and those in The Matrix still seemed to be stuck in the year 1999. So, you know, uploading 'Windows 98 for Dummies' into your brain is only going to get you so far.
28. "No, because in The Matrix people still have their eyebrows" In response to Reply # 27 Wed Apr-21-10 01:37 PM by buckshot defunct
>Wire-fu aside, most of the Matrix operates as closely to the >real world as possible to preserve the illusions of reality.
It doesn't 'operate as closely to the real world as possible' , but rather the real world as it existed before the machines took over. Technology in the "real world" has evolved leaps and bounds beyond how it's presented within the matrix. Look at the computer Neo is typing on at the beginning of the movie, and then look at what we discover computers can actually do later on in the movie.
So it stands to reason that working within the confines of what's knowable within the matrix, you'd be limited as to how much scientific knowledge is available. It would be akin to your only reference material being a set of encyclopedias from the 1970's. It's not that the info is inaccurate necessarily, it's just out of date.
What's knowable outside of The Matrix obviously runs a wider gamut, but that's a whole different thing. And like I said, technically they are hacking The Matrix from the outside, which is exactly what the OP suggests they aren't doing.
I'm not up on the timeline, but even if the robots placed humanity in a simulation that was only 10 years behind the times, they'd still have placed a gulf between the technologies. The robots would be starting with...well...robots, AI, and advanced weapons; the humans would be starting with DVD players and George Foreman Grills. It doesn't matter how fast a runner you are, you'll lose the 200m dash if you start 400m behind everyone else.
I cede this round to you, good sir. May they do freaky, half-naked dances in Zion in your honor.
25. "stayoing within the mythology" In response to Reply # 0
zion only existed as a form of control. the small "victories" they had, and people they freed was only an illusion.
humanity had lost, completely, the matrix was like a prison colony and the machines would only go there to fuck around.
zion being free. unpossible, the machines had destroyed zion 6 times and were ready to do it again...
now outside of the mythology...yeah, sure. most of the red pills were former hackers, and it would make since that they could have figured out a way to disable machines from the inside. but hey the wachowski bros were lazy and stopped giving a fuck after the first one
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