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Subject: "Please see Waltz With Bashir" Previous topic | Next topic
Vaiops2wega
Member since Jul 01st 2002
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Tue Jan-27-09 10:01 PM

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"Please see Waltz With Bashir"


  

          

It is easily the best film of the year in my opinion. The movie is an animated documentary which follows a former Israeli soldier as he tries to fully remember his actions during the invasion of Lebanon in the 80's and the massacres that took place inside Palestinian refugee camps at the hands of Phalangist soldiers right under the watch of Israeli troops. I've done so much research on the subject but this has to be the most compelling resource that I've seen to date. I don't want to give any spoilers but I was really moved by a scene in which the soldier comes to terms with his role in the situation. Unfortunately, 99% of Americans probably don't have a theatre they can view it in due to its limited distribution which is why I downloaded a torrent of it, but I plan on purchasing the DVD and supporting the film makers as soon as it's released which I hope it will be.

“You do Coach bags, I do kush bags, you a douchebag, I’m the truth fag/share greedy, ya’ll niggas get scared easy, queer like multiple pairs of Air Yeezys” - Sean Price

  

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Topic Outline
Subject Author Message Date ID
Seeing it tomorrow.
Jan 28th 2009
1
RE: Seeing it tomorrow.
Jan 28th 2009
2
I was a little disappointed by it
Jan 28th 2009
3
RE: I was a little disappointed by it
Jan 28th 2009
5
      RE: I was a little disappointed by it
Jan 28th 2009
6
           RE: I was a little disappointed by it
Jan 28th 2009
11
I'm going to venture out this weekend...
Jan 28th 2009
4
RE: Please see Waltz With Bashir
Jan 28th 2009
7
RE: Please see Waltz With Bashir
Jan 28th 2009
8
RE: Please see Waltz With Bashir
Jan 28th 2009
10
I just saw it, so I'll respond to these comments:
Jan 29th 2009
13
      CIA, V2w &FL, thanks for the replies n/m
Jan 29th 2009
14
      was gonna reply above but u pretty much said everything I wanted to say
Jan 30th 2009
16
RE: Please see Waltz With Bashir
Jan 28th 2009
9
RE: Please see Waltz With Bashir
Jan 28th 2009
12
it's a great title when you find out what it's referring to.
Jan 30th 2009
17
I saw it a few weeks ago - Visually appealing
Jan 30th 2009
15
What? How did it try to absolve them? I felt the complete opposite.
Feb 05th 2009
18
Highlighting on what MisterMo says above....
Feb 20th 2009
19
i think it is an essential film to see
Feb 21st 2009
20
'Antiwar' film Waltz with Bashir is nothing but charade
Feb 21st 2009
21
bashir.
Jul 05th 2009
22
the FIRST thing i thought of when i saw this post:
Jul 06th 2009
23
I liked it. Nodded off for a bit for various reasons
Aug 21st 2009
24
saw it last night...I'll be back when I get some more time to digest...
Aug 21st 2009
25
just saw this movie, i liked it
Sep 23rd 2009
26

Frank Longo
Member since Nov 18th 2003
86672 posts
Wed Jan-28-09 12:03 AM

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1. "Seeing it tomorrow."
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

My movies: http://russellhainline.com
My movie reviews: https://letterboxd.com/RussellHFilm/
My beer TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@thebeertravelguide

  

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Vaiops2wega
Member since Jul 01st 2002
2361 posts
Wed Jan-28-09 12:39 AM

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2. "RE: Seeing it tomorrow."
In response to Reply # 1


  

          

You're in for a treat. Please come back to this post later and give your opinion of it.

“You do Coach bags, I do kush bags, you a douchebag, I’m the truth fag/share greedy, ya’ll niggas get scared easy, queer like multiple pairs of Air Yeezys” - Sean Price

  

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Call It Anything
Member since Aug 13th 2005
10951 posts
Wed Jan-28-09 10:32 AM

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3. "I was a little disappointed by it"
In response to Reply # 0
Wed Jan-28-09 10:32 AM by Call It Anything

  

          

The 4½ hour Che did a better job of holding my attention than this one did in 90 minutes. The dream sequences were a little too trippy for me as well. And while the crossover at the very end was powerful, at the same time it somehow cheapened the 85 minutes before it. I felt like having the entire thing in animation was just a set-up to make those final images more powerful. Which I supposed worked, but to me it undercut the rest of the movie.

I'd still tell people to see it, but I wasn't blown away by it at all.

  

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Vaiops2wega
Member since Jul 01st 2002
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Wed Jan-28-09 12:40 PM

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5. "RE: I was a little disappointed by it"
In response to Reply # 3


  

          

>The 4½ hour Che did a better job of holding my attention than
>this one did in 90 minutes.

I highly disagree. The first half of Che was excellent but the second half almost seemed like it was made by a different director

The dream sequences were a little
>too trippy for me as well.

I think they were a bit pretentious but they helped in understanding the psyche of the characters. Especially the one where the giant woman comes aboard the boat and takes him away. It shows that this tough soldier who's a trained killing machine was really just an insecure boy who wanted his mommy

And while the crossover at the
>very end was powerful, at the same time it somehow cheapened
>the 85 minutes before it. I felt like having the entire thing
>in animation was just a set-up to make those final images more
>powerful. Which I supposed worked, but to me it undercut the
>rest of the movie.

Yeah, I agree that it was an odd juxtaposition but it did work. I was entranced so much by the excellent animation I almost forgot that this was an actual event that really happened. The end really brought me back home and I don't think it could have worked as an animated scene

“You do Coach bags, I do kush bags, you a douchebag, I’m the truth fag/share greedy, ya’ll niggas get scared easy, queer like multiple pairs of Air Yeezys” - Sean Price

  

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Call It Anything
Member since Aug 13th 2005
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Wed Jan-28-09 01:00 PM

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6. "RE: I was a little disappointed by it"
In response to Reply # 5


  

          

>I highly disagree. The first half of Che was excellent but the
>second half almost seemed like it was made by a different
>director

Agreed, but it still held my attention better. After he'd seen two or three friends I started checking my watch and we were only half way through. With Che I was 3 hours in before I got to watch checking.

>I think they were a bit pretentious but they helped in
>understanding the psyche of the characters. Especially the one
>where the giant woman comes aboard the boat and takes him
>away. It shows that this tough soldier who's a trained killing
>machine was really just an insecure boy who wanted his mommy

I feel like I understood their purpose, they just felt a little too much like something out Heavy Metal.

>Yeah, I agree that it was an odd juxtaposition but it did
>work. I was entranced so much by the excellent animation I
>almost forgot that this was an actual event that really
>happened. The end really brought me back home and I don't
>think it could have worked as an animated scene

It definitely wouldn't have worked. They had pretty much set-up the violence up until then to be cartoony. When the commander got shot in the tank, nobody reacted. People were getting shot, blown-up, etc... the whole movie and because of the animation it filtered the effect. And then when it flips into the actual shit in the end and it brings it back home. I do think it worked, but it just made the whole thing almost feel like a well constructed gimmick to me.

  

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Vaiops2wega
Member since Jul 01st 2002
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Wed Jan-28-09 10:23 PM

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11. "RE: I was a little disappointed by it"
In response to Reply # 6


  

          

>It definitely wouldn't have worked. They had pretty much
>set-up the violence up until then to be cartoony. When the
>commander got shot in the tank, nobody reacted.

Nobody realized that he had been shot by a sniper until he slumped over and by then they were under rocket fire. I also believe a lot of the violence is shown in a drab, non-chalant manner because it's presented as the dreams/nightmares and flashbacks of a soldier who has been conditioned to embrace violence. He was just a kid at the beginning of their incursion into Lebanon but I believe he lost his innocence when he had to shoot those 26 dogs to avoid detection.

“You do Coach bags, I do kush bags, you a douchebag, I’m the truth fag/share greedy, ya’ll niggas get scared easy, queer like multiple pairs of Air Yeezys” - Sean Price

  

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iboycottedimdb
Member since Nov 20th 2006
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Wed Jan-28-09 11:51 AM

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4. "I'm going to venture out this weekend..."
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

trying to decide between that and 'Frost/Nixon'.

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Sponge
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Wed Jan-28-09 01:18 PM

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7. "RE: Please see Waltz With Bashir"
In response to Reply # 0


          

Haven't seen it yet, but am really looking forward to it. I got a question, though. Keep in mind, I haven't read any interviews with the director. I notice some harsh critics calling the animation a gimmick in that it's not particularly justified/motivated to turn talking heads into animation. I also recall some sentiments like humanizing animation defeats the purpose of animation. Stuff like that. What are your thoughts? I'd imagine that, in the filmmaker's mind, animation reflects the film's angle of memory-past events.

  

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Call It Anything
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Wed Jan-28-09 01:23 PM

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8. "RE: Please see Waltz With Bashir"
In response to Reply # 7


  

          

I haven't really read any reviews, but at the end I did feel like it was a well constructed gimmick. But I did think that they were still able to create the effect that they wanted in the last 5 minutes. So I think it's reasonable to still enjoy the picture and appreciate effect, but I really started losing interest in the character halfway through the movie. I think that was the biggest obstacle for me.

  

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Vaiops2wega
Member since Jul 01st 2002
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Wed Jan-28-09 10:17 PM

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10. "RE: Please see Waltz With Bashir"
In response to Reply # 7


  

          

>Haven't seen it yet, but am really looking forward to it. I
>got a question, though. Keep in mind, I haven't read any
>interviews with the director. I notice some harsh critics
>calling the animation a gimmick in that it's not particularly
>justified/motivated to turn talking heads into animation.

I think that it depends on the individual to determine whether or not the animation is appropriate, but I think it was effective as both an aesthetic and a storytelling device

>also recall some sentiments like humanizing animation defeats
>the purpose of animation.

I think that comment comes from someone who doesn't understand the power of animation nor are they an authority to determine how animation should be used

“You do Coach bags, I do kush bags, you a douchebag, I’m the truth fag/share greedy, ya’ll niggas get scared easy, queer like multiple pairs of Air Yeezys” - Sean Price

  

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Frank Longo
Member since Nov 18th 2003
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Thu Jan-29-09 12:29 PM

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13. "I just saw it, so I'll respond to these comments:"
In response to Reply # 7


  

          

>I notice some harsh critics
>calling the animation a gimmick in that it's not particularly
>justified/motivated to turn talking heads into animation.

I feel it's absolutely justified. The whole thing is like a dream to most of the people who recall the occurrences. Even the interviews and talking head moments are for the interviewer still part of his own fog surrounding the massacre that he's trying to see through. There's even one moment where one man he interviews says he does not wish to be filmed, but the interviewer can draw a picture of him if he'd like-- I thought that was an interesting juxtaposition. Is it easier to disassociate yourself from reliving a moment if there's no record of the actual visual interview? The animation in this film represents that heightened reality, the dreamlike state of post traumatic memory haze, but it also represents the ability to remove one's self from the reality-- almost the opposite of the heightened reality of the flashbacks. I thought the animation was not only justified, but an integral part of the storytelling and the film's style.

I
>also recall some sentiments like humanizing animation defeats
>the purpose of animation. Stuff like that.

Perhaps, but this film fully uses the animation not just on human character, but to recreate memories that would be otherwise impossible to show us. We are never in a true "reality" in the film until the very end, when there's an abrupt shift that I won't spoil for those reading this. But yeah, it's not humanization as much as it is showing us men with dreamlike memories recalling their thoughts, leading to the interviewer's (hopeful) recovery of the actual occurrences, not just some hallucinations or dreams.

> What are your
>thoughts? I'd imagine that, in the filmmaker's mind,
>animation reflects the film's angle of memory-past events.

It is, but as I hopefully have indicated, I believe it's more than that as well. It really is a deeply affecting and fascinating movie.

My movies: http://russellhainline.com
My movie reviews: https://letterboxd.com/RussellHFilm/
My beer TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@thebeertravelguide

  

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Sponge
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14. "CIA, V2w &FL, thanks for the replies n/m"
In response to Reply # 13


          

  

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40thStreetBlack
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Fri Jan-30-09 03:05 PM

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16. "was gonna reply above but u pretty much said everything I wanted to say"
In response to Reply # 13


          

___________________

Mar-A-Lago delenda est

  

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Shawn Maxam
Member since Jan 28th 2004
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Wed Jan-28-09 02:49 PM

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9. "RE: Please see Waltz With Bashir"
In response to Reply # 0


          

I think it's an important film to see...and although some of the scenes were out there...I believe it's still a very powerful film.

My book of poems The Starving Artist: http://www.lulu.com/content/paperback-book/the-starving-artist/6151056

  

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epluribusunum
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Wed Jan-28-09 10:56 PM

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12. "RE: Please see Waltz With Bashir"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

wack title tho
Im sure its great

  

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40thStreetBlack
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17. "it's a great title when you find out what it's referring to."
In response to Reply # 12


          


___________________

Mar-A-Lago delenda est

  

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MisterMo
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Fri Jan-30-09 09:28 AM

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15. "I saw it a few weeks ago - Visually appealing"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

Overall a good film. I feel like it tried to absolve the soldiers from any direct crime, though, which is wack to me. They had a direct involvement, yet everyone interviewed were giving a side of the story where they were not involved. Expected though, no one wants to tarnish their name. What did Kennedy say? "A success has a thousand fathers, a failure is an orphan"

  

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Frank Longo
Member since Nov 18th 2003
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Thu Feb-05-09 03:16 PM

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18. "What? How did it try to absolve them? I felt the complete opposite."
In response to Reply # 15


  

          

They felt remorse, and they were haunted by what they'd done, yes. But that doesn't equal attempted absolution. On the contrary, their nightmares are the burdens they put onto themselves for the terrible things they've done and seen in battle.

My movies: http://russellhainline.com
My movie reviews: https://letterboxd.com/RussellHFilm/
My beer TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@thebeertravelguide

  

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malang
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Fri Feb-20-09 02:03 PM

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19. "Highlighting on what MisterMo says above...."
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

the movie is being sponsored by the Israeli government for a lot of showings...seems contradictory bu its not...seeks to absolve the Israelis of all the blame for Sabra and Shatila massacres....and at same time humanize the Israeli soldiers and anguish...(though humanization of their victims is not necessary)....

"To say that Palestinians are absent in Waltz with Bashir, to say that it is a film that deals not with Palestinians but with Israelis who served in Lebanon, only barely begins to describe the violence that this film commits against Palestinians. There is nothing interesting or new in the depiction of Palestinians -- they have no names, they don't speak, they are anonymous. But they are not simply faceless victims. Instead, the victims in the story that Waltz with Bashir tells are Israeli soldiers. Their anguish, their questioning, their confusion, their pain -- it is this that is intended to pull us."

http://electronicintifada.net/v2/article10322.shtml

  

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jasonprague
Member since Sep 29th 2005
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Sat Feb-21-09 05:59 AM

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20. "i think it is an essential film to see"
In response to Reply # 0


          




PEACE

"The struggle of man against power is the struggle of memory against forgetting." - Kundera

  

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malang
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Sat Feb-21-09 02:52 PM

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21. "'Antiwar' film Waltz with Bashir is nothing but charade"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

Gideon Levy / 'Antiwar' film Waltz with Bashir is nothing but charade
By Gideon Levy, Haaretz Correspondent
http://haaretz.com/hasen/spages/1065552.html

Everyone now has his fingers crossed for Ari Folman and all the creative artists behind "Waltz with Bashir" to win the Oscar on Sunday. A first Israeli Oscar? Why not?

However, it must also be noted that the film is infuriating, disturbing, outrageous and deceptive. It deserves an Oscar for the illustrations and animation - but a badge of shame for its message. It was not by accident that when he won the Golden Globe, Folman didn't even mention the war in Gaza, which was raging as he accepted the prestigious award. The images coming out of Gaza that day looked remarkably like those in Folman's film. But he was silent. So before we sing Folman's praises, which will of course be praise for us all, we would do well to remember that this is not an antiwar film, nor even a critical work about Israel as militarist and occupier. It is an act of fraud and deceit, intended to allow us to pat ourselves on the back, to tell us and the world how lovely we are.

Hollywood will be enraptured, Europe will cheer and the Israeli Foreign Ministry will send the movie and its makers around the world to show off the country's good side. But the truth is that it is propaganda. Stylish, sophisticated, gifted and tasteful - but propaganda. A new ambassador of culture will now join Amos Oz and A.B. Yehoshua, and he too will be considered fabulously enlightened - so different from the bloodthirsty soldiers at the checkpoints, the pilots who bomb residential neighborhoods, the artillerymen who shell women and children, and the combat engineers who rip up streets. Here, instead, is the opposite picture. Animated, too. Of enlightened, beautiful Israel, anguished and self-righteous, dancing a waltz, with and without Bashir. Why do we need propagandists, officers, commentators and spokespersons who will convey "information"? We have this waltz.
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The waltz rests on two ideological foundations. One is the "we shot and we cried" syndrome: Oh, how we wept, yet our hands did not spill this blood. Add to this a pinch of Holocaust memories, without which there is no proper Israeli self-preoccupation. And a dash of victimization - another absolutely essential ingredient in public discourse here - and voila! You have the deceptive portrait of Israel 2008, in words and pictures.

Folman took part in the Lebanon war of 1982, and two dozen years later remembered to make a movie about it. He is tormented. He goes back to his comrades-in-arms, gulps down shots of whiskey at a bar with one, smokes joints in Holland with another, wakes his therapist pal at first light and goes for another session to his shrink - all to free himself at long last from the nightmare that haunts him. And the nightmare is always ours, ours alone.

It is very convenient to make a film about the first, and now remote, Lebanon war: We already sent one of those, "Beaufort," to the Oscar competition. And it's even more convenient to focus specifically on Sabra and Chatila, the Beirut refugee camps.

Even way back, after the huge protest against the massacre perpetrated in those camps, there was always the declaration that, despite everything - including the green light given to our lackey, the Phalange, to execute the slaughter, and the fact that it all took place in Israeli-occupied territory - the cruel and brutal hands that shed blood are not our hands. Let us lift our voices in protest against all the savage Bashir-types we have known. And yes, a little against ourselves, too, for shutting our eyes, perhaps even showing encouragement. But no: That blood, that's not us. It's them, not us.

We have not yet made a movie about the other blood, which we have spilled and continue to allow to flow, from Jenin to Rafah - certainly not a movie that will get to the Oscars. And not by chance.

In "Waltz with Bashir" the soldiers of the world's most moral army sing out something like: "Lebanon, good morning. May you know no more grief. Let your dreams come true, your nightmares evaporate, your whole life be a blessing."

Nice, right? What other army has a song like this, and in the middle of a war, yet? Afterward they go on to sing that Lebanon is the "love of my life, the short life." And then the tank, from inside of which this lofty and enlightened singing emanates, crushes a car for starters, turning it into a smashed tin can, then pounds a residential building, threatening to topple it. That's how we are. Singing and wrecking. Where else will you find sensitive soldiers like these? It would really be preferable for them to shout with hoarse voices: Death to the Arabs!

I saw the "Waltz" twice. The first time was in a movie theater, and I was bowled over by the artistry. What style, what talent. The illustrations are perfect, the voices are authentic, the music adds so much. Even Ron Ben Yishai's half-missing finger is accurate. No detail is missed, no nuance blurred. All the heroes are heroes, superbly stylish, like Folman himself: articulate, trendy, up-to-date, left-wingers - so sensitive and intelligent.

Then I watched it again, at home, a few weeks later. This time I listened to the dialogue and grasped the message that emerges from behind the talent. I became more outraged from one minute to the next. This is an extraordinarily infuriating film precisely because it is done with so much talent. Art has been recruited here for an operation of deceit. The war has been painted with soft, caressing colors - as in comic books, you know. Even the blood is amazingly aesthetic, and suffering is not really suffering when it is drawn in lines. The soundtrack plays in the background, behind the drinks and the joints and the bars. The war's fomenters were mobilized for active service of self-astonishment and self-torment.

Boaz is devastated at having shot 26 stray dogs, and he remembers each of them. Now he is looking for "a therapist, a shrink, shiatsu, something." Poor Boaz. And poor Folman, too: He is devilishly unable to remember what happened during the massacre. "Movies are also psychotherapy" - that's the bit of free advice he gets. Sabra and Chatila? "To tell you the truth? It's not in my system." All in such up-to-the-minute Hebrew you could cry. After the actual encounter with Boaz in 2006, 24 years later, the "flash" arrives, the great flash that engendered the great movie.

One fellow comes to the war on the Love Boat, another flees it by swimming away. One sprinkles patchouli on himself, another eats a Spam omelet. The filmmaker-hero of "Waltz" remembers that summer with great sadness: It was exactly then that Yaeli dumped him. Between one thing and the other, they killed and destroyed indiscriminately. The commander watches porn videos in a Beirut villa, and even Ben Yishai has a place in Ba'abda, where one evening he downs half a glass of whiskey and phones Arik Sharon at the ranch and tells him about the massacre. And no one asks who these looted and plundered apartments belong to, damn it, or where their owners are and what our forces are doing in them in the first place. That is not part of the nightmare.

What's left is hallucination, a sea of fears, the hero confesses on the way to his therapist, who is quick to calm him and explains that the hero's interest in the massacre at the camps derives from a different massacre: from the camps from which his parents came. Bingo! How could we have missed it? It's not us at all, it's the Nazis, may their name and memory be obliterated. It's because of them that we are the way we are. "You have been cast in the role of the Nazi against your will," a different therapist says reassuringly, as though evoking Golda Meir's remark that we will never forgive the Arabs for making us what we are. What we are? The therapist says that we shone the lights, but "did not perpetrate the massacre." What a relief. Our clean hands are not part of the dirty work, no way.

And besides that, it wasn't us at all: How pleasant to see the cruelty of the other. The amputated limbs that the Phalange, may their name be obliterated, stuff into the formaldehyde bottles; the executions they perpetrate; the symbols they slash into the bodies of their victims. Look at them and look at us: We never do things like that.

When Ben Yishai enters the Beirut camps, he recalls scenes of the Warsaw ghetto. Suddenly he sees through the rubble a small hand and a curly-haired head, just like that of his daughter. "Stop the shooting, everybody go home," the commander, Amos, calls out through a megaphone in English. The massacre comes to an abrupt end. Cut.

Then, suddenly, the illustrations give way to the real shots of the horror of the women keening amid the ruins and the bodies. For the first time in the movie, we not only see real footage, but also the real victims. Not the ones who need a shrink and a drink to get over their experience, but those who remain bereaved for all time, homeless, limbless and crippled. No drink and no shrink can help them. And that is the first (and last) moment of truth and pain in "Waltz with Bashir."

  

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jane eyre
Member since Jan 16th 2007
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Sun Jul-05-09 11:06 PM

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22. "bashir."
In response to Reply # 0


          

so far, i've watched it 3 times. the third time, i watched and listened to folman's dvd comments.

i think the movie is beautiful, but also... i feel it's not as brave as it could be. i don't think that weakens the film, though. maybe the movie not being as brave as it could be says a lot about the very real challenges that are at play in that part of the world...

i have super conflicted feelings about this movie. listening to folman talk about his experience complicated things even more.

i have trouble sorting out whether or not this is really an anti-war film. if it is, i don't understand where/how that message is articulated in the film. under what circumstances is this an anti-war film?

the movie loses me because it's never explicitly said that the soldiers on the israeli side (since this is a story told from an israeli perspective) of the fence were involved in soldiering part of the conflict that was trying to stop and kill _________ types of people.

that explicit admission is a key part of the puzzle for me because that sort of acknowledgement could potentially lead to some sort of realization that war is bad because it divides people and makes us lose sight of things like our common humanity. it could potentially lead to a realization that yes, we pull the trigger but we can also stop pulling the trigger. which might lead to a realization about why people might stop killing: because in tragedy and suffering, human beings can choose to put away the guns and protect each other, find love and common ground.

interestingly enough, an expression of common ground and understanding comes when many of the palestinians are dead.

lol. the movie i wanted to see was about common humanity. but. it's not the movie i got. i don't know if that's because the movie still has something to say to me that i need to listen more deeply to, or if it's because folman didn't intend to do any of that in the first place.

the movie seemed to hold back from expressing regret/remorse about the fact that israeli soldiers may have done something that resulted, directly or indirectly, in killing. i wouldn't think that mattered so much if it weren't for the way that the massacre was presented.

folman, on the dvd, said that he wanted to make a film about his personal experience, without paying attention to the politics of the war involved. he also said that he didn't want the movie to be a history lesson, per se, because everybody knows about what happened in beirut. bashir is a personal movie for him, his friends; a movie about the common solider. it's not a movie, according to folman, about the other side. i'm open to that and i can sit in a viewing space of listening and empathizing. he shouldn't have to edit his story-- he should be able to tell it whatever way he wants.

with that said...

i think the representation of the palestinians who were massacred was...i don't know. strange? as if the palestinian experience became something that had meaning in the movie only because it would lead to folman's understanding about himself.

i definitely didn't like the ending of the film. it was powerful artistically, but i thought on some level, it was in poor taste and somehow, too little too late. i haven't been able to watch the images at the end of the film because i feel that viewing them, after listening to the stories that are told in bashir, is somehow not quite right.

those aren't my only feelings about the film. but. those are the feelings i have that are complicated, that i'm trying to understand.

when it comes down to it, though, i think i love this film...mainly because even if it is flawed, it's human and i...i dunno...i can't judge that. i appreciate what folman has done.

  

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Calico
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24604 posts
Mon Jul-06-09 02:29 AM

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23. "the FIRST thing i thought of when i saw this post:"
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"MARTIN Bashir?? FUCK him!!" *incoherent mumbling about screwing over Mike in that old interview*

"yes, sometimes my rhymes are sexist, but you lovely bitches and hos should know i'm tryin to correct it"- hiphopopotamus

  

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Invisiblist
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Fri Aug-21-09 11:54 AM

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24. "I liked it. Nodded off for a bit for various reasons"
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that had nothing to do with the movie, and woke up at the beginning of the last scene. Jarring.

I'm going to watch it a couple of more times, but I'll go ahead and comment now:

I don't really get where people are saying that this film is attempting to absolve Israeli soldiers of their crimes. I thought this movie went out of the way very early to make sure that we understood that the memories that were going to be shown to us were all going to be flawed. There's a scene early on where one of the characters tells us about a study where people started creating false memories out of suggestion. After that we're taken on a tour of recollection. Hello? Did people really miss that?

Yes, the Palestinians were faceless in this movie. It wasn't a movie about Palestinians. It wasn't even really a movie about war, if you think about it. The setting is war, but the ideas presented here about the contradictions in what we say, what we do, and then what we remember are applicable to all aspects of our lives and human interactions.

  

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Lardlad95
Member since Jul 31st 2002
66340 posts
Fri Aug-21-09 12:30 PM

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25. "saw it last night...I'll be back when I get some more time to digest..."
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"Jack of all trades, master of none, though ofttimes better than master of one"-Anonymous


The sharpest sword is a word spoken in wrath;the deadliest poison is covetousness;the fiercest fire is hatred; the darkest night is ignorance.-The Buddha

  

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las raises
Member since Aug 31st 2002
14982 posts
Wed Sep-23-09 02:12 PM

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26. "just saw this movie, i liked it"
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i loved the visuals

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