I'm not saying it sucked, just undeserving of all the praise it gets. It just has too many parts that were a little hard to accept. For example, the way Amy Brennamen's (sic) character was so quick to leave the country with this guy she didn't even know all that well that had already lied to her and revealed himself to be a thief and a murderer. Another example is how easily DeNiro's crew, with so much too lose and little to gain, decided to do that "last job". Danny Trejo was just like, "Ehh, fuck it, why not?" I mean, I can roll with it if need be, but they really couldn't have had at least some type of legitimate motivation for doing that? For a movie of this stature, it ought to be better.

Besides that, it just wasn't that exciting, at least not for 3 hours plus. It had some great moments, like the shootout and the famous DeNiro/Pacino coffee scene, but it didn't have enough to justify its hype, IMO. If it wasn't for that one scene, this movie would have been forgotten, relatively speaking. It is just not THAT good.

_________________________________________

It's rare for a linked pic to make me smile - nicely done.

great writing, solid acting, great action and an engaging story.

"Your current frequencies of understanding outweigh that which has been given for you to understand." Saul Williams

Good not great.

Don't really feel like getting into it more than that.

----
NBA MOCK DRAFT #1 - https://thecourierclass.com/whole-shebang/2017/5/18/2017-nba-mock-draft-1-just-lotto-and-lotta-trades

And the movie's 2 hours, 51 minutes, not "3 hours plus"

So, yeah. One of the best movies of the 90's. Haters, stay really mad.
________________________________________________________________________
"I want to be done playing this lady Nov. 5..." - Tina Fey

___

it is a capital mistake to theorize before one has data. insensibly one begins to twist facts to suit theories, instead of theories to suit facts. - sherlock holmes

___________

HOPE!
https://vine.co/v/i7JjIBL3Qix
https://vine.co/v/i7JtqEFwxDu

and the funny shit is
80% of the time the person shiting on it
wasnt even born when it came out

. . .

*

*

Just the reidiculously worst depiction of women this side of Reservior Dogs.

I love the gun battle at the big time bank heist, I'm a sucker for good shoot em ups, but that's a lonely lonely bright spot in a movie that failed to deliver up to its potential.

The worst piece of the whole film is Al Pacino's overacting. I've always loved how in Rushmore, when the Max Fischer players are performing Serpico, they send up Pacino's horribly delivered "snapping in time with the dialogue" routine he does in HEAT. His scenes with his wife, Hank Azaria ("she got a big ass...and you got your head waaayyy up it!!"), Tone Loc's brother, and that opening scene when all he can do is hug the distraught mother are some of the most un-intentionally funny movie moments I've ever seen.

And I will NEVER understand anyone who thinks this movie is "deep" in any way.

>The worst piece of the whole film is Al Pacino's overacting.

again, i LOVE the movie but pacino damn near ruins it. almost like he's in a completely different film than everyone else. parts of his performance play like a madtv sketch or some shit. (and yeah, the hug was excruciating, lol)

it's like he was exaggerating his speech + mannerisms to demonstrate the character's edginess/volatility or whatever. shit ain't work, esp. contrasted w/ deniro's masterful portrayal. it would've played much better if he'd have just done it straight. a guy like ed harris or jeff bridges or even TLJ would've knocked that shit out of the park.

still, a great film.

___

it is a capital mistake to theorize before one has data. insensibly one begins to twist facts to suit theories, instead of theories to suit facts. - sherlock holmes

but i still love it

cosign on Al overacting
now you wanna talk about overrated actors.....

thats another post

And on the surface

So the "it's not that deep" argument really doesn't hold up, because... the movie's not *trying* to be "deep":

Men work. Women want them to be at home with them. But men are going to keep working, because that's what they're good at (as opposed to intimacy and other relationshit... shit), and they're used to it.

Wow. See how "deep" that was? Yeah, no.

Still doesn't mean the movie's bad, though. Hardly.

I will repeat: one of the best movies of the 90's. And not because "the critics" said so.
_________________________________________________________________________
"I want to be done playing this lady Nov. 5..." - Tina Fey

>So the "it's not that deep" argument really doesn't hold up,
>because... the movie's not *trying* to be "deep":

I know its not in this post but I was responding to actual discussion I've read about how many levels this movie supoosedly operates on.

ANNNDDDD....I didn't criticize the movie for not being dep, I criticized the people who think its deep. Something you should understand as even you, an admitted fan of the film, contend that its not trying to operate on any level basept one: simp.

*

Half the crowd says "its not deep, its straight
forward and fun"

Half the crowd says "like ohhh myyy gawwwddd...
..its like, such a commmentttaarrry on the
existential forces of incompleteness that drive
greed that feeds robbery...liiikkke....oh my
gaawwwwdddd...theexchanges between Pacino and Deniro
made my nipples hard."


It was not deep, and not very good.


Like Pulp Fiction, people just invent
reasons to like it because they are SUPPOSED
TO LIKE IT.




----------------------------


O_E: Your Super-Ego's Favorite Poster.



"I ORBITs the solar system, listenin..."

(C)Keith Murray, "Cosmic Slop"

knock it off. lol.

you didn't like the shit. other ppl did. leave it @ that.

nobody's "inventing reasons"

___

it is a capital mistake to theorize before one has data. insensibly one begins to twist facts to suit theories, instead of theories to suit facts. - sherlock holmes

>knock it off. lol.
>
>you didn't like the shit. other ppl did. leave it @ that.
>
>nobody's "inventing reasons"

YOU of all people should know better.

And even when it sounds like I'm taking a shot
at you personally, I'm not, because you're actually
not a bitch nigga.

But that's the nicest thing I'm gonna say about
your high yellow bitch ass for a good six months,
so go hop off my nuts and watch them there Whitey
Soxes.

Ole bad movie opinion having ass nigga.



----------------------------


O_E: Your Super-Ego's Favorite Poster.



"I ORBITs the solar system, listenin..."

(C)Keith Murray, "Cosmic Slop"

>Ole bad movie opinion having ass nigga.

foh. lol.

___

it is a capital mistake to theorize before one has data. insensibly one begins to twist facts to suit theories, instead of theories to suit facts. - sherlock holmes

Mad?

Hitch was good.

Meg Ryan made one good movie in her career, and it's NOT Sleepless in Seattle.

___________

HOPE!
https://vine.co/v/i7JjIBL3Qix
https://vine.co/v/i7JtqEFwxDu

>Hitch was good.

Agreed.

>Meg Ryan made one good movie in her career, and it's NOT
>Sleepless in Seattle.

Agreed.

The worst is Natalie Portman. God, she was awful in this movie. It was near the beginning of her career, so she was probably a little green, but she had already put in work in both "The Professional" and "Beautiful Women." So I was surprised how wooden she was.

>His scenes with his wife, Hank Azaria ("she got a big
>ass...and you got your head waaayyy up it!!"), Tone Loc's
>brother, and that opening scene when all he can do is hug the
>distraught mother are some of the most un-intentionally funny
>movie moments I've ever seen.

Yes, these suck. But the movie is still great.

-----------------

www.albumism.com

Checkin' Our Style, Return To Zero:

https://www.mixcloud.com/returntozero/

just that it was empty and unnecessary.

There wasn't enough there for you to even feel empathy when she tries to off herself.

She wasn't in it long enough for us to care about what happens to her

Same for Dennis Haysbert's character

I could have used another scene or two with Portman and Pacino, and one with Haysbert as well

But then again that probably would have given us the "3 hours plus" film that the original poster apparently saw
________________________________________________________________________
"I want to be done playing this lady Nov. 5..." - Tina Fey

I mean seriously people don't think this movie is brilliant?

Mann is a fucking great director. The composition of almost every frame is amazing. And obviously its a fantastic ensemble cast - everybody knows Pacino and DeNiro are in rare form, but the entire supporting cast is awesome.

This is one movie that I throw on anytime and get sucked into it.

----

particularly the suicidal teenage daughter bit.

You could have taken all that out and still maintained the movie's essence.

That being said, I still thoroughly enjoyed the movie although I haven't seen it in awhile, the diner and the downtown shootout (<<<<<<<<<<fucking crazy) are definitely the two biggest highlights.

b/c if not, you're misusing it.

>You could have taken all that out and still maintained the
>movie's essence.

well, i always thought one of the main strands of the movie's essence was illustrating how these cops+crooks' lifestyle choices ('walk out in 30 seconds' et al) affect the women in their respective worlds. for me that was the main theme of the film (aside from the vince/neil '2 sides of the same coin' thing, obviously)

>That being said, I still thoroughly enjoyed the movie although
>I haven't seen it in awhile, the diner and the downtown
>shootout (<<<<<<<<<<fucking crazy) are definitely the two
>biggest highlights.

i can barely watch the diner scene anymore. i just end up feeling sorry for al. bob sonned him *so* bad, lol. that shit was a blowout.

and the shootout scene alone deserved an oscar for sound. virtuoso work.

___

it is a capital mistake to theorize before one has data. insensibly one begins to twist facts to suit theories, instead of theories to suit facts. - sherlock holmes

>b/c if not, you're misusing it.
>
>>You could have taken all that out and still maintained the
>>movie's essence.
>
>well, i always thought one of the main strands of the movie's
>essence was illustrating how these cops+crooks' lifestyle
>choices ('walk out in 30 seconds' et al) affect the women in
>their respective worlds. for me that was the main theme of the
>film (aside from the vince/neil '2 sides of the same coin'
>thing, obviously)
>
It was one of those things that we could have gathered without needing the occasional 10-minute TV melodrama interlude.

It didn't ruin the film for me but it also didn't enhance it, they could have done shit in more streamlined fashion from that angle than Portman's whole subplot.

Not to mention Deniro's girl was a dead fish. A woman with personality and/or sex appeal might've done something with her part. Judd was the only one with a semblance of either (not that Lil Nat was supposed to on the latter, no pedo).

>>That being said, I still thoroughly enjoyed the movie
>although
>>I haven't seen it in awhile, the diner and the downtown
>>shootout (<<<<<<<<<<fucking crazy) are definitely the two
>>biggest highlights.
>
>i can barely watch the diner scene anymore. i just end up
>feeling sorry for al. bob sonned him *so* bad, lol. that shit
>was a blowout.
>
I haven't watched the movie in at least four years, not sure why.

>and the shootout scene alone deserved an oscar for sound.
>virtuoso work.

That scene was a masterpiece.

i can't remember any scene involving one of the 4 female leads that was thematically superfluous or didn't advance the plot

i'll rewatch it in the next few days + get back

___

it is a capital mistake to theorize before one has data. insensibly one begins to twist facts to suit theories, instead of theories to suit facts. - sherlock holmes

But since she was awful in the role, it definitely could have gotten axed.

-----------------

www.albumism.com

Checkin' Our Style, Return To Zero:

https://www.mixcloud.com/returntozero/

The problem is, people don't think for themselves and so can't
possibly imagine thinking a film with Deniro and Pacino is
anything but profound

Sorta how people overrated everything Scorcese

Its disgusting.

*
*
*

but at 3h?

I've always been absolutely mystified at this movie's huge reputation. It's hard to say it "sucked" when, like I said, there's a good movie tucked away in there SOMEWHERE. But yeah, it definitely wasn't good that long, either.

And it's a gangster/crime movie. When are gangster/crime movies going to stop being the be-all, end-all of "great" cinema exactly?

___________

HOPE!
https://vine.co/v/i7JjIBL3Qix
https://vine.co/v/i7JtqEFwxDu

the bank robbery was decent. but fuck it.

___________________

Mar-A-Lago delenda est

It leads to all sorts of unpopular movie
opinions.

Being a real ass nigga don't help, because
that leads me to tell it like it is.



----------------------------


O_E: Your Super-Ego's Favorite Poster.



"I ORBITs the solar system, listenin..."

(C)Keith Murray, "Cosmic Slop"

___________________

Mar-A-Lago delenda est

n/m


----------------------------


O_E: Your Super-Ego's Favorite Poster.



"I ORBITs the solar system, listenin..."

(C)Keith Murray, "Cosmic Slop"

___________________

Mar-A-Lago delenda est

I watched it the first time and thought it was just alright movie but liked it more and more upon repeated viewings.

I get where you're coming from since i've seen people put certain filmmakers on pedestal, most recently the Coen Bros.

Heat is a masterpiece, and my opinion is not based solely on my own thinking.

----

____________________

be Good.

http://i45.tinypic.com/2n8vg29.png
(by a guy named Wes Whaley http://www.telegraph.co.uk/culture/culturepicturegalleries/8779317/Light-paintings-by-Wes-Whaley.html )

A film that I actually saw before the "it was ass" reviews came out, so there goes that argument

Plus, Pacino and De Niro are in every scene together (well, except for the scene where De Niro's gettin' it on with Carla Guigino... wait, Pacino was there too, wasn't he?), and Al doesn't really do a lot of yelling, so there you go

And it's only about 1:40, so the attention span won't suffer much, I suppose
________________________________________________________________________
"I want to be done playing this lady Nov. 5..." - Tina Fey

You've posted 3 TIMES regarding the running time of the movie. OK, so I was off about 15 minutes. It felt 3 hours plus to me because it wasn't that gripping. And it is definitely not relevant enough to the discussion to keep mentioning over and over.

How about you shut the hell up about Righteous Kill because it has absolutely nothing to do with this post. I haven't seen it and don't really want to. And congratulations on saying it sucked before everyone else did, but no one really gives a shit.

So not thinking this movie's great makes me a hater? I didn't say it sucked, I said it was overrated. Two very different things. But if you think Heat is that fucking good, then why don't you explain to everyone here why my criticisms of the weak supporting characters and weak storylines stated above are wrong or why my suggestion that without the Pacino/DeNiro diner scene this movie would be relatively forgotten is wrong. But if you'd still rather ramble on about irrelevant and unrelated bullshit then go ahead and waste everyone's time.

_________________________________________

>You've posted 3 TIMES regarding the running time of the
>movie. OK, so I was off about 15 minutes. It felt 3 hours plus
>to me because it wasn't that gripping. And it is definitely
>not relevant enough to the discussion to keep mentioning over
>and over.
>
>How about you shut the hell up about Righteous Kill because it
>has absolutely nothing to do with this post. I haven't seen it
>and don't really want to. And congratulations on saying it
>sucked before everyone else did, but no one really gives a
>shit.
>
>So not thinking this movie's great makes me a hater? I didn't
>say it sucked, I said it was overrated. Two very different
>things. But if you think Heat is that fucking good, then why
>don't you explain to everyone here why my criticisms of the
>weak supporting characters and weak storylines stated above
>are wrong or why my suggestion that without the Pacino/DeNiro
>diner scene this movie would be relatively forgotten is wrong.
>But if you'd still rather ramble on about irrelevant and
>unrelated bullshit then go ahead and waste everyone's time.

Ay, you be careful, you posted more than once in icecold21's post, he won't like that...
________________________________________________________________________
<------ NOPE!!!

posts. You act like I'm crazy for not thinking Heat is a classic but you haven't explained why. You haven't really defended that position at all or countered any of my points. I would have thought you'd have something interesting to say given how strongly you feel about the quality of this movie, but you haven't really said anything.

_________________________________________

Your "OMGz it's sooo overrated" stance isn't new nor special, so please get over it

I've said repeatedly that the film's writing, acting, direction, and editing (as well as the theme that you don't have to dig deep for) are all reasons why this film is a classic

The film is beautifully shot and meant to make you think of film noir, as well as evoke melancholy/loneliness (a recurring motif in Michael Mann's work), with the major presence of cool colors like blue and black

The writing is sharp and doesn't insult the intelligence (at least it didn't when it was out; I'm sure one of the haters here will find some kind of quotes to shoot this down)...

The acting is fantastic, even with all of the alleged white coonery of Al Pacino, whom haters continually contend YELLS LIKE THIS throughout the entire film, which is actually not accurate

In fact, in the most important scene in the film, the diner meet between he and De Niro, he's pretty low-key, voice barely above a whisper... the only time he YELLS AT PEOPLE is when he's trying to shake down a criminal or talking to his crew

As for the film's length, it's ABSOLUTELY ESSENTIAL to the storytelling... you can't establish that both of the main characters are good at what they do without... spending some time to see them doing what they do best so that we know that they're good at it...

We also have to see how their personal lives stack up (as well as the personal lives of some of their respective crews), their loneliness has to be established in order to understand the toll that their professional excellence takes on everyone around them... you can't do that in 20 minutes and have effective storytelling... it's just not fucking possible...

As far as the oft-repeated criticism that "but Michael Mann only put Pacino and De Niro in one scene together" (which is usually muttered by cats who just want to see "gangsta shit" -- and no, I'm not saying you're saying that, so don't go getting your panties in a bunch about it), it's not as effective a story if the two of them continuously meet (or meet more often than they actually do)... the point is to see one man, who's awfully good at what he does but essentially lonely, pursue a man who also happens to be awfully good at what he does but is also essentially lonely... the point of the movie is not to spend 3 hours with Pacino and De Niro spouting "gangsta shit" at each other like they were the heads of the Bloods and the Crips... Michael Mann is interested in telling a bigger story than that...

I've also talked about subplots that don't especially work, like the Natalie Portman one, which could have used a couple of extra scenes with her and Pacino, so when she slits her wrists it actually means more because we care about her as a character

I've actually talked about that last point in this post, but instead of reading, you'd rather throw a fucking hissy fit about my repeated presence here

So, you stay mad about that and the film, and I'm going to keep posting wherever and however I wish... thnx...


and btw, the above breakdown wasn't "invented," nor was it memorized from any critical analysis of the film but my own...
________________________________________________________________________
<------ Yeah... not gonna happen.

(yep, another post)

I don't see what's so hard to understand about either Amy Brennaman's character or Danny Trejo's. One's motivated by love; the other's motivated by money.

Yes, Neil lied to Eady at first, saying he sold metal, but then when the truth is revealed to her, he gives her SEVERAL chances to leave... he TELLS HER SEVERAL TIMES that hey, if you want to be out, then be out... he clearly doesn't want her to (in fact, he even tells her as much after giving her another chance to bail), but the point is that he still gives her several opportunities to bounce...

She's clearly in love with him, as he is her... remember, it was Eady who engaged Neil in conversation when they first met at the diner... she was the one who mentioned that she had noticed him several times at the bookstore where she worked... she's clearly not just interested in small talk or being a fuck buddy with this dude... after they sleep together, and after Neil calls her during dinner, she's happy to hear from him, saying that she was afraid that they had just had a one-night stand... does a woman who isn't interested in a cat say something like that (even if she eventually will find out what he really does)?

I don't find her motivation for staying with him (loneliness) to be implausible at all... especially after he sells her on what he can give her if she comes with him ("I got money, you don't need money, you can set up your own studio and work"... in Fiji)... you don't think a (lonely) woman would be interested in hearing some shit like that?

And as for Trejo and the gang, why should criminals have any other motivation to do any job except to make the money they're going to make from doing it? They're not psychopaths, they don't get their jollies by killing people and doing silly shit... they're professional criminals, cats who enjoy taking on the challenge of doing big, professional jobs for money and all that that entails...

That said, take a look at another character in the gang, such as Breedan (Dennis Haysbert). His motivation for joining the score should be pretty clear, as he's tired of working for a cat who jerks him because of his criminal past... and sorry, but there ain't no other options for dude, it's not like he's going to quit working at the diner then go back to law school... he needs money now, and he also feels like he needs some respect, even though his woman tells him that she still loves him and is proud of him for sticking with the bullshit...

Any more questions?
________________________________________________________________________
<------ Yeah... not gonna happen.

3 hours? Damn.

I had to watch it in 1.5 hour installments.

_________________________________________________________

http://www.angryasianman.com

ppl are fools

__________________
http://twitter.com/theloniousfunk
http://havetravelled.blogspot.com
http://instagram.com/arsonwelles

“Be uncomfortable; be sand, not oil, to the machinery of the world.”
- Gunter Eich

I mean, 'Heat' was great as far as long,
overdone, overrated heist movies go.

If you mean heist movies than its not
even up for discussion.

I'll take 'Dead Presidents' over this
long, dry ass film


----------------------------


O_E: Your Super-Ego's Favorite Poster.



"I ORBITs the solar system, listenin..."

(C)Keith Murray, "Cosmic Slop"

It's a movie I zone out to, in a good way. Kind of the movie equivalent of ambient music. That said, I agree with you.

It's cool, but in a mostly shallow sort of way, although there are some deeper elements, too, like the whole character of the parolee character. Some nice sequences. It's a movie I'd recommend to a lot of people.

But lots of stuff where it's just a cool actor wearing cool clothes shot in cool lighting with cool music looking cool.

----
I check for: Serengeti, Zeroh, Open Mike Eagle, Jeremiah Jae, Moka Only.

>It's a movie I zone out to, in a good way. Kind of the movie
>equivalent of ambient music. That said, I agree with you.

Translation:

everyone said it was supposed to be good, and it
wasn't. I will, however, rationalize having seen
it 3 times by making something up about "tone"

>It's cool, but in a mostly shallow sort of way, although there
>are some deeper elements, too, like the whole character of the
>parolee character. Some nice sequences. It's a movie I'd
>recommend to a lot of people.

Translation: It sucks, and I feel ambivalent about it. I will,
however, recommend it, since its *supposed* to be good and
I don't want to alienate myself by telling people that it
was horseshit, which it definitely was.

> But lots of stuff where it's just a cool actor wearing cool
>clothes shot in cool lighting with cool music looking cool.

Translation: This movie really fucking sucked, and was
a waste of time and money.


----------------------------


O_E: Your Super-Ego's Favorite Poster.



"I ORBITs the solar system, listenin..."

(C)Keith Murray, "Cosmic Slop"

my point is fine. Not that good in a lot of areas, but I still enjoyed it (the one time I saw it). Lots of people enjoy just about any semi-competent R-rated crime drama they see, as PTP often confirms, so I'd have no problem recommending Heat to them.

Sorry if it screws up your central posting thesis, but a lot of the time, people just like what they like. Just like you.

Geez. I said it was overrated.

----
I check for: Serengeti, Zeroh, Open Mike Eagle, Jeremiah Jae, Moka Only.

I'm jus sayin


----------------------------


O_E: Your Super-Ego's Favorite Poster.



"I ORBITs the solar system, listenin..."

(C)Keith Murray, "Cosmic Slop"

*nyuk nyuk*

. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .

*Effasig*